Only one condition stands between Serbia and EU

Only one condition stands between Serbia and EU

Good evening. Lately, we have had a chance to hear contradictory statements by international and domestic officials on whether and when the EU Association talks might be continued. This time, we’ll try to gain insight into the EU perspective on the issue. Our guest is Miroslav Lajcak, Slovak Ministry of Foreign Affairs Political Director, and former ambassador to Serbia. As I said, it remains somewhat unclear what the actual condition for the talks to continue is: Mladić’s arrest or Kosovo status solution? How do you see this?

Lajcak: I think the conditions have been defined clearly, and that means full cooperation with the Hague Tribunal. Full cooperation means Mladić in the Hague, full cooperation can also mean the removal of any doubt that the Government is doing all that needs to be done to extradite Mladić.

All in all, what has been known as the Croatian model – over there, full cooperation was established even before Gotovina was imprisoned, since there was no doubt as to the sincerity of their intentions to get him there. So that’s it – Kosovo is a problem of its own and has nothing to do with Serbia’s integration with the rest of Europe.

Riha: That’s what we gather from Carla Del Ponte’s statements, however, speculation, opinions are circulating, that EU talks will be continued even if Mladić is not in the Hague, that clear evidence he has been located will suffice. How likely is that?

Lajcak: As I said, that point of view does exists, since the international community, the EU above all, wishes to assist Serbia, but Serbia truly needs to clear any doubt and be in fact sincere in its attempts to establish full cooperation with the Hague Tribunal.

Riha: How do you explain these mostly unofficial announcements, both from Brussels and Belgrade, that talks may continue as early as October?

Lajcak: You know, I am present at all the meetings the EU holds on the issues of the Western Balkans, Serbia, and I can tell you based on my experience that talks will not continue before this condition, the full Hague cooperation, is met.

Riha: Yes, however, full cooperation may signify Mladić, then all the others.

Lajcak: Full cooperation means Mladić in the Hague, or the degree of transparency and one hundred per cent cooperation that dispels all doubts. In other words, what Croatia managed, no more than that. There is no third way out of this.

Riha: Can you tell us some details on how Croatia managed this? They were about to ratify the agreement but it was postponed due to a lack of cooperation with the Hague.

Lajcak: Yes.

Riha: What sort of proof did they submit?

Lajcak: They organized an incredible activity, formed a working group, action plan, such as what Serbia has today, opened access to their archives entirely, opened up their services, so that the Tribunal experts could access them.

Riha: Serbia’s done the same.

Lajcak: It isn’t up to me to judge.

Riha: At least officials say so.

Lajcak: I can’t be the one to… I don’t have access to the kind of information necessary to judge in this matter. They have been very active in that they visited European capitals ahead of each of the EU meetings, they came to us to speak, to demonstrate, to prove what they had been up to for the previous couple of weeks.

They tried to demonstrate they really weren’t hiding anything, that they were completely open to cooperation and that their goal is the same as that of the international community. And that has helped, it helped in that my country and others then took a very active position that the government should be trusted on this, that we had no reason not to show trust.

Riha: Do you trust this Government?

Lajcak: The Serbian government? I do, I do… This trust needs to be gained from all the EU countries. This Government or some of your country’s representatives lost much of that trust by constantly coming forward with deadlines, dates for delivering Mladić, and then missing all those deadlines. I had a chance to see the negative effects all that has, especially in Washington, where much of the trust is lost. In other words, everyone is fed up with hearing about another deadline.

Therefore, what needs to be done now is not talk about dates, but to cooperate and be more active. It seems to me, when I compare the Croatian and Serbian models, that Croatia was on the offensive, while you are retreating, you are always under pressure to defend yourselves, to explain, while your representatives should be visiting capitals, European capitals, not just Brussels.

Riha: Well, we have seen lively activity from our ministers, Mlađan Dinkić for example, deputy PM Dulić-Marković, President Tadić.

Lajcak: Yes, there is some kind of diplomatic activity there.

Riha: But it isn’t enough?

Lajcak: However, EU is not Brussels alone, EU is 22 member countries, they decide, so they need to be communicated with, first and foremost those you know you have the most problems with and who trust you the least. You need to work to prove yourself to them and to dispel all their doubts.

Riha: Yes, but for example the European Parliament recently announced the suspension of negotiations was a huge mistake and warned that it could lead the former regime back to power. In other words, European legislators understand the context of the search for Mladić and other fugitives.

Lajcak: The parliamentary officials have a permanent freedom, on a national level and on a European level, and everyone is entitled to his or her opinion. That is why we in Slovakia were not happy with the fact negotiaitons stopped; we think that this was not a good message for your country. Unfortunately that was also the result of a miscommunication, when the international community was sure that Mladić would be extradited by the end of April.

That was announced on several occasions, and on May 1 everyone had the feeling that they had been tricked, even if in Belgrade, when I asked around, I was told that a promise was never given. But Brussels was sure that it had been given and because of that we entered a situation that we did not want to see, unfortunately, that is a fact, and the European Parliament does not decide on the continuation of the discussions, the European Council does. The resolution of the European Parliament in this has only the moral strength.

Riha: Yes, but we hear promises from the Serbian Government that they really want to arrest Mladić, extradite him to the Hague Tribunal, but what if this does not happen as a consequence of something that is beyond the control of the Government? What then, are we a country that is to be left out of all integrations? How do we convince the European Union and specifically individual countries that we are actually complying? I have the case of this Sicilian mafia member in mind, the one who had been hiding for 40 years and then he was arrested as a result of his wife sending him his laundry. So, how do we convince them?

Lajcak: I agree with you and your logic and we are really saying that the country cannot be left to the mercy of one individual. On the other hand, I was the ambassador here in 2001 and we were hearing these promises all the time, and today we have documents which show that these same people who gave assurances that they were cooperating…that they knew, for instance, that Mladić was in the country, in Belgrade.

This is when the trust was at a high level, because of these facts which were uncovered here in Serbia, this trust has waned and that is why more effort needs to be put into getting this trust back. Unfortunately, these are the facts and simply, Mladić needs to be extradited. Again, through our bilateral contacts I see that there is currently no will or desire to have this condition diminished or weakened. 

Riha: There is no will on the part of the Serbian Government or…?

Lajcak: No, there is no will on the part of the key players within the international community.

Riha: Who are these key players?

Lajčak: You know as well as I do.

Riha: Yes, but something that is considered a group of friends exists, countries that, at least according to Dimitrij Rupel, we here believe that the Slovak Republic is a good friend of Serbia and supports us in our efforts to join the European Union. Which countries are not that eager to help us, in your opinion?

Lajčak: No, there are no countries like that, but there are…the European Union acts as one and we are a part of that, we are a part of all of those resolutions and positions. Of course there is a great discussion regarding all these questions within the European Union, there are countries that care more about principles, there are countries that look at the general political situation, who say we must change our principles in order to make them compatible with the political reality in the field. Others are saying they cannot abandon their principles, their values. So that is that, but in total, I can generally say this is a positive moment, a positive moment for Serbia in the European Union and this needs to be taken advantage of.

Riha: You say positive, and here they are saying that we are not cooperating with The Hague, how is this a positive moment?

Lajčak: That is evaluated my Ms. Carla Del Ponte, and I am sure that she has reasons for saying this. Within the European Union there are discussions on how to help Serbia in order to create a pro-European atmosphere, for the country to become more Euro-optimistic than it is today, since currently the European Union doesn’t top the popularity list in your community.

This moment needs to be taken advantage of, however, as you said, there is a group of countries that could be called Serbia’s friends, who wish to help, but you know the rule – help us to help you. Serbia’s homework can only be done by Serbia, and then we can try and promote all that, that you have achieved, but we cannot extradite Mladić for you.

Riha: About two months ago, you said that the European Union is preparing a package of measures for helping Serbia and just now you mentioned that the desire to help Serbia exists. What does this package of measures include, can it be defined?

Lajčak: The discussions regarding this are being finalized, it would not be good to discuss them just now, this set of ideas at this moment, because that’s s the presidency’s task, but very intensive discussions are being led which are nearing their end.

Riha: How close is this to the Package Plus plan which Minister Mlađan Dinkić reportedly promoted to the European Union as Serbia’s idea?

Lajčak: These are two separate ideas and documents. On the other hand, it’s logical to consider how the European Union can help Serbia, when we look at the European Union and when we look at Serbia’s ideas, we find many of the same things, such as the visa regime, such as economic help and so on and so forth.

Riha: How would you comment on what Dinkić had to say in Brussels? How likely is it that we can receive all that, should we arrest Mladić tomorrow and extradite him to the Tribunal?

Lajčak: I think it isn’t necessary to talk about deadlines, and secondly, you can tell how fast a track runner runs once he starts to run, but when he’s standing in one spot you can’t say how long it will take him to reach the finish line. Serbia is currently standing still.

Riha: I’m asking about what Minister Dinkić said in Brussels, how realistic it is to expect that we will receive the assistance if the right moment comes, and we are all expecting it, to fulfill and complete our cooperation with the Tribunal?

Lajčak: Yes, there is readiness on the part of the European Union which is being confirmed almost every month…

Riha: To meet our demands regarding the visa regime and financial help?

Lajcak: Each official document says as soon as that condition is fulfilled, Serbia should return full-force to the stabilization and association process, and, of course, regardless of that some measures are considered even now.

As for the visas, that is not only an issue of politics and good will, but also a technical issue. For example, Serbia needs to complete readmission agreements with all the EU member countries. It is unrealistic to think that a country might green light visa policy relaxation unless this agreement is signed first.

Riha: We have heard, Belgrade media reported citing anonymous government sources that some kind of phased negotiations will start by the end of September. If that should come to pass, what are phased negotiations?

Lajcak: I don’t know, I haven’t heard of that, I have no idea what phased negotiations are.

Riha: That’s what was reported. On the other hand, Minister Dinkić, I keep quoting him, he was in Brussels on several occasions lately, he came back with an optimistic announcement that Serbia may become a candidate for joining the Union in 2007. Is that realistic?

Lajcak: Membership candidate, that’s a definition of quality, to achieve that you need to travel a certain road, you need to complete the stabilization and association process, and today we can’t guess when Serbia might complete that process. Macedonia is a membership candidate, and you know how far Macedonia has come, you have an idea how long that took.

Riha: Explain the process to those of us who are not acquainted with it. The situation is this: negotiations are ongoing, then there’s membership candidate status, signing of the agreement, ratification. What exactly is this… have I got the sequence of events right?

Lajcak: Yes, Feasibility Study first, that you’ve accomplished that, then, Stabilization and Association process which is now suspended, and then membership negotiations, which is a higher phase.

Riha: But when we talk about the negotiations, they were seen as positive. What remains to be talked about, are you acquainted with that?

Lajcak: The process was on the right track and the European Commission estimates showed that Serbia has shown a high level of what is known as an administrative capacity. In other words, Serbia has ministries, it has institutional bodies ready to cooperate, since as you know the process is a huge administrative undertaking. I can say openly that the reactions were positive in Brussels and around Europe.

For political reasons the negotiations have been suspended, and citing a year, 2007, 2008, would mean speculating, I do not wish to go there, that process can take more or less, it depends on the speed at which a country progresses. Slovakia set the record, membership processes took 30 months, but then the ratification that included 15 parliaments took another 15 months.

Riha: There are 25 parliaments now.

Lajcak: 25 plus two, that will take a while. So, the process has its phases and many of them are technical in nature and cannot be circumvented.

Riha: Slovakia has, as we’ve already said, been mentioned as a friend of Serbia. What motivates you to assist us so much?

Lajcak: Serbia is a culturally, mentally, psychologically close to us, every citizen feels positive emotions when Serbia is mentioned. That’s the first thing, secondly, we have come along the road that…

Riha: But politics does not equal emotions, I apologize for interrupting; politics is interest, what in it for you?

Lajcak: The situation we found ourselves in at the end of the 1990’s was hard enough, we were left out of the European integration processes for failing to meet the political criteria. We know how hard that is, we know how much it mattered, that there were countries that had not forgotten about us at that time. Now we want to give back, and I can say our position is exceptional since we understand what goes on in Serbia better than some old EU members, and we try to help in the communication between Belgrade and Brussels or Belgrade and the capitals, which is not always an ideal communication.

Riha: Do you understand this current situation regarding the Kosovo talks, the status of Kosovo? You said that this had nothing to do with the continuation of stabilization and association discussions, however, there are certain ties, will the EU talks continue first, or will a status solution be found? It has been said recently that an agreement between President Tadić and Prime Minister Koštunica has been reached regarding the adoption of the constitution, followed by a referendum and elections. What is your position when you hear such speculation, which appears to be fairly well-founded?

Lajcak: There is a lot of speculation, just as there is with any other important question. The question of Kosovo and the Kosovo discussions has its own logic, its own mechanism and we have a timeframe, which Martti Ahtisaari published. The process of stabilization and association is something completely different; there are no formal ties between the two.

Riha: But it can be heard, Mr. Lajčak, that if we enter the European Union we will have to solve the Kosovo question and so on, such comments have been heard.

Lajcak: That can be heard, but that is not the official position of any European institution…

Riha: By rule things always start unofficially, then it turns out to be the correct information.

Lajcak: But this is not serious, and in my opinion, it is completely counterproductive, because to tie the Kosovo process and the process of Serbia’s European future in such a brutal way would be completely wrong. That is not serious, it is not official, and it is not based on facts, it simply isn’t a serious approach.

Riha: How do you see Martti Ahitsaari’s statement and Belgrade’s reaction to it? How much harder can it make the entire process?

Lajcak: I am sure it has complicated the atmosphere between Belgrade and Ahtisaari and the future discussions. I don’t think the process benefited from it. I know that these are very sensitive issues, and I have an understanding for Belgrade’s reaction.

On the other hand, whether it was necesary for Belgrade, essentially, for Serbia to enter a conflict with Ahtisaari who has the support of the international community; to enter a conflict, yet another conflict with the international community in that way. There is diplomacy, and there are other ways to show your intentions, you know, it is easier to make enemies than not; you must be deft in that process.

Riha: We are reaching the end of the program; I want to make use of the fact that you were also Javier Solana’s special envoy in the Montenegrin referendum. After these recent elections in Montenegro, do you expect that they will enter the European Union sooner? How realistically can you speak about that now, about who will enter first, Serbia or Montenegro, what do you think?

Lajcak: The criteria has been clearly defined, every country must meet this criteria. If Montenegro meets all the criteria as it should, then it can move forward.

Riha: And has it completed the criteria?

Lajcak: We will see in the coming days, when the European Commission gives its official stance on the readiness of Montenegro. Montenegro’s advantage is that it does not have the political obstacles that Serbia has, but Montenegro and Serbia are very different in every way, in capacities, so it is hard to speculate…

Riha: Finally, when Ratko Mladić is arrested and Hague cooperation is completed, once the Kosovo status problem is solved in the best way, is there anything else that can be asked of Serbia as far as the association discussions with the European Union are concerned?

Lajcak: I can’t imagine anything, and I don’t believe anyone would accept that, not only in Serbia, but also in my country, no other country would accept any addtional conditions. All the conditions are clearly defined…

Riha: You know that this is a very important question here because many citizens think that we are constantly being asked to do something, that we are constantly giving more than we are receiving.

Lajcak: I know that this question, the cooperation with the Hague Tribunal, has been going on for the past six years and must be taken off of the agenda one day, but that is the question that is still present. I’m not expecting any other conditions, and you should not expect them either, everything has already been defined.

Riha: Mr. Lajcak, thank you for being a guest on TV B92’s Poligraf. You have been watching Poligraf, stay with B92, good night.