1. Rote

    The point of our exchange was concerned with Fomenko's assertions on Britain and not with Europe in general.I am not aware the MOngol hordes reached the shores of Britain unless of course god sent Fomenko a text telling him so.Had you visited a real castle in Britain you would've seen the history of each castle hasn't got any similarities with Fomenko's nonsense.May I also add whether you've read anywhere of the Hadrian Wall which stretches from the West Cumbrian to the North of England build by the Roman emperor and still survives.It also suffices to say there are thousands of coinage featuring Hadrian and inscribed in Latin.Worldwide conspiracy? .As to your assertion there’s no technology to find the age of stones modern scientists use a technique called radiometric dating to estimate the ages of rocks, fossils, and earth which has been acceptable by archaeologists .On your point that Europeans were too poor to build castles you forget that in semi-feudalistic societies the castles were built by their elites with slave labour.As for Fomenko being a world mathematician his entire theory depends on his idea that history is just the diary of the reigns of kings, and that the mathematical relationships between their reigns is as sound as the mathematically relationship of two sides of an algebraic equation. This is nonsense of the worst kind, made worse by the fact that Fomenko had to rewrite Byzantine history to get his correlation to match the English history.
    (Leonidas, 1 December 2014 14:54)

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  2. B92 thanks !

    Greeks are the last to complain at Fomenko. Not only the list why Russians are greateful to the Greeks is much longer than the alphabet. But according to Fomenko one way or another Greeks ruled the world (before 1612)last 1600 years. And he claims alphabet appeared in Rome-1 with the capital called Alexandria now. He insists that in 9-10 centuries the Romeys ruled the world from there. Then he says they moved to what is know as Istanbul (Yaros , Jerusalem, Troy , Konstantinopol Tsar Grad)to establish Rome-2. Rome-3 was Veliki Novgorod (Yaroslavl) while Moscow was New Jerusalem. After in 1185 Jesus (Andrinic I Komnin) was crucified at the ippodrome near the city Russians started war to avenge the latins. It lasted 130 years and was described as Troy or Gothic or Crusaders wars. In 1204 the Horde succeded to seize and destroy Jerusalem on Bosphore. In 1261 they seized it to stay. The war lasted until Horde headed by Georgy Danilovich (St.George, Gengis Khan) entered Europe in 1318. He was poisoned so his brother Ivan=Batiy Khan=Batu=Kalita=Khalifa=Karl-I=Friedrich Barbarossa=Pope Klement-5 finished the job and entered China, Middle east, both Americas, Japan. Greeks were part of it all as some of the Romeys flew to Russia to restore their world power while both Batiy and George had Greek blood too. To better rule Europe Rome-4 and Vatican were established. As the Khalif Ivan topped both Horde and the Church,lived Vatican called so it becase his Batiy Khan name.
    (rote, 1 December 2014 12:58)

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  3. B92 please don't stop this dialogue !


    Leonidas my plans has changed so I can respond you.


    “Britain from North to South is filled with ancient Castles dated chronologically and built either by English or Scottish or Roman rulers ... to massacre history and ignore the archaeological evidence from Britain …”

    • If we base the arguments only pro et contra Fomenko I can see no contradiction here because he insists that all the castles you mention plus greater part of such big constructions all over Europe were built by the Horde in 13-16 centuries. And there’s no technology to find the age of stones yet … He says that before 17 century Europeans were too poor to do such things. Also he claims that the Scotts and the Scythians were synonyms. This why worlds like Arthur , London , Croydon and many other can be translated only from Ossetian whose Sarmatian ancestors were part of the Horde. He massacres not only Britain’s history but all the history of the world before 17 century. And instead of a slight glance at his theory you"ll need a better look you will find him rather persuasive. By the way he is a world known mathematician to head the mathematical branch of the Moscow University for 20 years. So exposing him as an idiot or nationalist you have zero chance. You will have to expose as such too many western scientists too starting with Isaak Newton. And it’s been 40 years that he works about the new chronology.

    Continued
    (rote, 1 December 2014 11:14)

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  4. Leonidas

    I am short on time today but I'll respond you as soon as I see your nicname. It's not only Fomenko.
    (rote, 1 December 2014 10:12)

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  5. Rote
    Cont..

    Furthermore,anyone familiar with British history and the country will know that Britain from North to South is filled with ancient Castles dated chronologically and built either by English or Scottish or Roman rulers. Yet to make his case Fomenko has to massacre history and ignore the archaeological evidence from Britain and from Constantinople.Fomenko’s claims that Byzantine history from 1143-1453 is duplicate of history 843-1143.If such a claim was true why would the “duplicate” kings would have coinage displaying theft names and portraits? How can anyone believe Fomenko since imperial coinage is documented for virtually every year from 27BC to 1453 CE? Why does Fomenko then make such claims? Well, Fomenko is a Russian nationalist who all of a sudden discovered that mother Russia was the source of planet earth and its culture gave rise to England.It also explains why the Czars believed they were Caesars through their connection with Byzantium.In other words, Fomenko's conspiracy thory is nothing more than an attempt to bolster the forgotten image of the Russian state, and to claim for Russia a large piece of the reflected glory of a world that passed it by.
    As to you Rote I would suggest that instead of believing Fomenko's nonsense to do some further reading on Byzantium (there are many Greek and Ottoman historians and Ottomans kept a detailed record of their governance).Remember the Greeks gave you your Alphabet 1000 years ago.
    (Leonidas, 30 November 2014 20:16)

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  6. Rote
    Fomenko’s conspiracy theories are not new to me and neither to the wider audience.In fact they are the re-heated ideas of Jean Hardouin who was convinced that all of the ancient records of Greece and Rome were forgeries perpetrated by Benedictine monks but failed miserably to produce any reasoning as to why the monks would fake so much history, nor a shred of evidence to back up his claims. But for Fomenko it wasn’t antiquity which was forged but the history of middle ages. For Fomenko, history unfolded not over millennia but centuries.By using Ptolemy's Almagest, a text from the second century CE that positioned 1,028 stars Fomenko claims the Roman Empire, actually began in the 9th century, and its Eastern half, the Byzantine, was the true model for all history.He then claims that British history is in fact Byzantine and all English kings were in fact Byzantines returned to Britain after the fall of Byzantium.
    Problems with Fomenko’s approach.Firstly,he assumes the values of Ptolemy’s data are correct.Any error could throw all his calculations in the wind.We do know from history the Chinese dynasties of Shang and Qin were keeping detailed almagests of astronomical data.Why did Fomenko refused to use their data? Because they couldn’t be manipulated or forged to help him produce his conspiracy theories.Secondly, after re-ordering the dates of Byzantine rulers to match his new chronology fantasies he then fails to match them to the dates of English Kings.
    Cont..
    (Leonidas, 30 November 2014 19:59)

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  7. Leonidas

    It will shock you but if you read the materials below they will change you forever. Very soon you will have to make a break because everything you knew and everything you believed in will be questioned. But sooner or later you will understand that no matter when and where Jesus was born or where he lived and where was he crucified he remains Jesus for you. A friend of mine (a businessman serving at the church on the weekends) very soon after I launched my propaganda refused to listen to me. I think he feels comfortable in the Jewish version of the history. But I keep sending him materials about the religious aspects of the new chronology. Leonidas read the short version of Fomenko and if you say so I’ll send you documents from other authors. It’s a pity you don’t know Russian because a lot of films and written materials are available only in Russia. But if you are patient enough to read the links below you will have a point of your own , not mine or of Wikipedia.

    [link]
    [link]
    [link]
    (rote, 28 November 2014 20:22)

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  8. rote,

    My posting was not intended to be malicious or dis-respectful to your self but rather recommending you to look at other sources with regards to the issues you've raised. My comment on Erdogan's delusions of being the emperor of the neo Ottoman empire and his charlatan overtures to iran while actively prosecuting a terrorist campaign on their allies Syria and Iraq is something which many people agree with.
    As for Charlemagne he was the subject of no fewer than two medieval biographies (although both were written after his death).Whether Charlemagne was ficticious or not I’ve got no idea. What I know is that king Otto III has maintained that he existed and he also found his grave around 1000 AD.
    As to my fairy tales about Alexander the burials of his father Philip in Vergina in Mecedonia together with all the Greek artifacts and incriptions in his grave prove that you need a thorough investigation on the subject.It suffices to say that as I write there further discoveries of ancient Greek Macedonians in Amphipolis in Greece.Iranian historians also concur on my points.Read Byzantine historians about ancient Rome.
    I've heard other posters raising similar points as you but fail to provide any evidence on the issues.Modern science uses radiocarbon dating to determine the age of artefacts and historical dates.Radiocarbon dating uses dendrochronology by examining tree rings.Therefore the date of artifacts and various other ancient relics is not in question.
    (Leonidas, 28 November 2014 12:55)

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  9. Leonidas

    I am very skeptic about all those libraries that you have mentioned as for centuries they were under the control of those who eliminated almost all the ancient documents and developed fakes about Troy about Macedonsky about the Pyramids ect. But I stick to other versions. According to them Gomer or someone under this nic lived in the middle ages and described the world war known also as the Gothic War where most events happened in current Turkey. Iskander was one of the names (titles) of Tamerlane. The full list is given in Wikipedia. For many centuries Arabs were under the rule of the Caucasians (Mamluks) who still form the personal guards of some monarchs. First 100 Popes never existed. Turkey was initially an autonomous Horde acting in coordination with the Golden Horde ( in Veliki Novgorod ) but in the 15-16 century Turkey stopped to obey and became independent. So they needed a religion of their own and they broke with the Orthodox Church as well. Some believe that Mohammad and Mehmet II were one man. Hundreds of scientists insist that the whole history was different but you stay firm and blame me of conspiracy. Only Turkish and Iranian sources were unavailable for the West. It does not mean they didn’t suffered but at least they give different picture of the events. Quran proved to be much closer to the old Orthodox (Greek) texts. Our problem is that we mean the Turks that we know last 150-200 years. But those were quite different Turks.
    (rote, 28 November 2014 10:31)

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  10. „ get out of your cocoon in Russia and visit some public libraries in Egypt,China,Italy and Greece and you'l find out that the recorded history in those countries is more or less the same. „ (Leonidas, 27 November 2014 20:59)


    1/ Leonidas it was a poor comment that I didn’t expect from you. We all live in cocoons but we can see only someone else’s mistakes. When in B92 Turkey is mentioned and there’s one single comment I know that it’s your comment before I open it. Same with your anti-imperialism passion … So don’t judge that strict. Besides there are axioms that you will not deny. I mean that the history is the only “science” that grants you state power and it is always rewritten by the winners. So each time the power was changed somewhere the history the newcomer wrote HIS STORY.

    2/ Now if you still believe that there’s any evidence that any of the Bible events have happened in what is called Jerusalem tell me about it. At least after 70 years of hard work the Jews and the coming foreigners have found nothing. In Wikipedia about 400 years of the recent history of the city (1500-1917) they have no info.

    3/ Now if you believe in the fairy tales about Alexander I feel pity for you. I you really believe that with his short bronze swords and such a small army he could seize half of the world you are naiive. To say nothing that bronze was invented centuries later. Greeks played a great role in history but it was mostly during the Byzantium.
    (rote, 28 November 2014 04:25)

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  11. rote,

    Conspiracy theories and their proponents often get maligned as crackpots, weirdos, outsiders, nut jobs.They get maligned because they provide poor to non-existent evidence of their claims and when given proof that clearly demonstrates that they are wrong, they refuse to accept it.They never claim that they are wrong, but victims of a vast conspiracy.
    There is no value in what they do. All it is anomaly hunting and then creating some preposterous fiction to explain it.As I've said before I've never claimed that world history has been written accurately for various reasons.Literacy levels in ancient and medieval times were nearly non-existent and therefore various events were written by the elites of those societies.However,illiteracy is not equal to conspiracy theories.I would suggest to you to get out of your cocoon in Russia and visit some public libraries in Egypt,China,Italy and Greece and you'l find out that the recorded history in those countries is more or less the same.
    (Leonidas, 27 November 2014 20:59)

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  12. Comm.

    When you speak about women in Islam you have you shoul not forget that Islam is very conservative. Besides local traditions are also important. Some of the nations in Iran , Afghanistan or Pakistan close the women’s faces while others not. So don’t be that strict and do not judge them from Europe. Because this is the way they are used to live and any western intrusion traditionally brings them only disaster and women do not become happier. I heard several Muslim leaders to speculate about women and each one had his internal logic. For instance Erdogan says that women need respect but not equality and I agree him. In his Green Book late Gaddafi wrote that Allah made men and women equal but woman has little chance to realize this right. Because she is either pregnant or responsible for growing up her multiple children. Such is their logic and I accept it too because exporting democracy or gay parades proved to be a bad idea. Muslims are free to choose how to grow up their children and how to behave. As well as all other people.
    (rote, 27 November 2014 11:45)

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  13. "Erdogan has lost it lately. He said Muslims discovered America. He's behaving like Seselj."
    (Avni, 26 November 2014 20:55)

    Lately?? Just one more on the pile of his great 'ideas'. Want more? How about forbidding female and male students to live in the same building? How about the 'rule' that a woman should not be allowed to laugh? But yes, both Erdogan and Seslj should visit a doctor to check for some defect areas their brains.
    (Comm. Parisson, 27 November 2014 10:03)

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  14. Leonidas

    “Erdogan is a con artist,a megalomaniac who thinks he can resurrect the Ottoman empire (thus the $615 million spent on refurbishing the last Sultan palaces which he uses as his residence).”

    You do know that Imperial mentality is never winded out. Same mentality we have here in Russia, such are the Germans , the French or the English and now the Yankees. What do we know about the Ottoman period ? Quite a lot indeed but most facts are either misinterpreted in Scaliger logics or forgotten. After the Germans were able to overthrown the Russians Tsars and impose their puppet Romanovs regime the Ottomans became the only force in Europe that was not controlled by the West. And it has never been occupies so today only the Turkish and Iranian historical documents remain unimproved. What we all know about the Turks is the latest period of the Empire. But quite few people think why Istanbul was granted this name (place of the Bulgars) why many generations of the Sultans were born and died in a small town on the Balkans inhabited only by the Greeks and the Bulgars ect. Most likely the Khazar Kaganat existed parallel to the Ottoman Empire and prevented Islamisation of the Russian lands. If you do not call names I can give you links to surprise you much. You will see that all the Sultans and the Khalifs looked like Slaws. I can also give some proof that the Italian Rome was established in the Middle Ages , Jerusalem – in the 19-th century ...
    (rote, 27 November 2014 09:44)

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  15. How long before he starts calling himself "Sultan Erdogan"?

    Getting rid of Assad means he backs IS and all the other fundamentalist nutters. He genuinely seems to want to start a second Ottoman empire.

    Greeks, Cypriots and Armenians watch out.
    (Andy UK, 27 November 2014 09:42)

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  16. Erdogan has lost it lately. He said Muslims discovered America. He's behaving like Seselj.
    (Avni, 26 November 2014 20:55)

    OK Google have you ever heard of Piri Reis or Hadji Ahmed’s maps ? I have little sympathy for Erdogan and his people. But if he really said so he is much closer to the truth than those who prefer Columbus or Vespucci or Vikings or any other European version. Admiral Piri Reis wrote his famous map 21 years after Columbus opened America for himself. There’s a lot of evidence that Columbus knew where he to swim. Most likely he was supplied with maps by his wife who was a daughter of the Great Magister of the Templers. Besides Columbus reached only the Caribbean while on Piri Reis’s map is a detailed map of the Globe. It includes the Antarctic opened 306 years later. The map describes not only the sea line of both Americas but also the rivers and the Andes located deep inside. The map is made on flat geometry base but they used trigonometry ( 3D ) as well because the proportions are correct and the equator is calculated with only 100 km mistake ! At that time Europeans were still sitting on the trees and the fairy tales of Joseph Scaliger were not advertised yet. Finally the map has been developed with the center in Cairo and when during WW2 the US made a map of their own it proved to be almost an exact copy of Piri Reis’s map. Because they too placed the center of the world in Cairo … So the Muslim version of America looks much more attractive.
    (ROTE, 27 November 2014 08:28)

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  17. He said Muslims discovered America. He's behaving like Seselj.
    (Avni, 26 November 2014 20:55)

    So in other words, he's making up facts. Sounds more like an Albanian than a Serb since Albanian history is based on lies and imaginary thoughts.
    (Navi, 27 November 2014 05:31)

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  18. Erdogan has lost it lately. He said Muslims discovered America. He's behaving like Seselj.
    (Avni, 26 November 2014 20:55)

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  19. Soon this so called country will be splitted in several as the imperialists used the divide and rule tactics comes in place
    (da, 26 November 2014 20:54)

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  20. the danger from the Jihadis would be removed not by mounting air strikes against them - "but by overthrowing the regime of Syrian President Bashar al Assad."

    Erdogan is a con artist,a megalomaniac who thinks he can resurrect the Ottoman empire (thus the $615 million spent on refurbishing the last Sultan palaces which he uses as his residence).He has no doctrine other than his own enrichment and whatever it is that he can use to exert power over the people - religion and hardening islam;Under his government, he and his cronies have thrived; his Saudi overlords have thrived; Turkish people have been doled the allusions of wealth that debt affords;He speaks to the ordinary person in such condescending, patronising tone as to assume they are utterly stupid; this is then confirmed by the same repeated in supposed 'respectful' (respectfully subservient) media.He is the only person who has attempted to solve the insurgency by deception and to pass through his constitution for purposes of exploiting Iraqi Kurdistan oil and to focus on his real enemy Assad.The imminent fall of Aleppo to the Syrian Army is Tayip's biggest headache.If Aleppo goes, so does a big chunk of the $15 billion Qatar pays him to keep the pressure up on Assad.It seems to me that Erdogan has been sold out by the Obama Gang.Assad is winning his battles and I can see the US establishing an independent Kurdistan in the near future.

    PS According to Erdogan it was muslims that discovered America not Columbus.
    (Leonidas, 26 November 2014 20:37)

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  21. "Why is somebody coming to this region from 12,000 kilometres away? I want you to know that we are against impertinence, recklessness and endless demands,"

    ...

    According to Turkish officials, the danger from the Jihadis would be removed not by mounting air strikes against them - "but by overthrowing the regime of Syrian President Bashar al Assad."

    Does anyone else see the hypocrisy here?! What a vile man this Erdogan is but he really reflects the kinds of people who support him like the Galatasary fans (and their Balkan satellites) who are celebrating the murder of Marko Ivkovic.

    And yes good idea. Let's destroy ISIS by removing the Assad government which is the ONLY regional force that is actually fighting ISIS. I mean how ridiculous to think Turkey, Saudi Arabia and Qatar who finance Jihadism all over the world, including in the Balkans, would have any interest in removing ISIS.

    The leader who needs to be violently overthrown is Erdogan and that should have happened years ago.
    (Ari Gold, 26 November 2014 19:09)

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  22. "Relations between the United States and Turkey have deteriorated during the past months over the latter's reluctance to join a military coalition fighting against the Jihadis in Iraq and Syria."

    No surprising, since Jihadists, ISIS and their sick ideas of an 'Islamic state' are much closer to Erdogan and his ideas of turning once secular Turkey into a state dominated by Islam without freedom, democracy and woman rights.
    (Comm. Parrisson, 26 November 2014 17:23)

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