1. Jovan Ducic, argued against Serbia forming Yugoslavia and bringing Croatia into civilization
    (Ari Gold, 4 August 2016 12:40)

    Quite the opposite actually if you compare literacy, standard of living and industrial statistics before the formation of the first Yugoslavia. If anything, Croats brought 'civilization' to the Serbs who were constantly playing catch up - you're welcome
    (civilized, 24 August 2017 19:41)

    # Comment link

  2. Absolutely. Nobody disputed the AY learning above. (icj1, 6 August 2016 23:59)

    ----

    icj1, the CB of B92, in fact disputed that very learning.
    The link to the entire dispute about the content of a group's heart and soul can be read in the following link:
    [link]

    The CB of B92, icj1, was the only person who did not recognize the normal existence of a peaceful "something" in a group's heart and souls. Icj1, the CB of B92, was the only person who associated a group's ethnicity and soulful thoughts with a neurological disorder.

    icj1, in ICTY illogical fashion, claimed idiotic inferences from his/her warped mind as evidence presented by a third party.

    Most recently, and most laughably, is icj1's further idiotic comment that nobody disputed the referenced learning. The core of our discussion has been icj1's label of the normal existence of something in a human's soul, as an abnormal neurological disorder.

    The CB of B92, icj1, apparently can't recall what he/ she is disputing and then stupidly posts back-to-back comments subtly changing his/her words and vainly tries to cover-up his/ her idiocy.
    Too late dude. Your evil bigotry is on display for all to see.

    P.S. CB= Chief Bigot
    (Amnesty Yugoslavia, 7 August 2016 19:41)

    # Comment link

  3. Amnesty Yugoslavia was an infant with emerging cognitive abilities when AY learned human beings, either in groups or individuals, have concepts such as faith, identity, ethnicity and other abstract concepts in their heart and souls.
    (Amnesty Yugoslavia, 6 August 2016 21:43)

    Absolutely. Nobody disputed the AY learning above.
    (icj1, 6 August 2016 23:59)

    ----

    Also indisputable is that icj1, the CB of B92 idiotically associated an ethnic group with a neurological disorder.
    Such Warped perversion with unscientific associations of ethnicity with a medical disorder is the essence of the evil that icj1, the CB of B92, posts on this forum.

    PS CB= Chief Bigot
    (Amnesty Yugoslavia, 7 August 2016 18:56)

    # Comment link

  4. According to that link, icj1 was just referring to the assertion by a certain Amnesty Yugoslavia that for a certain group of people something seems real even though it does not really exist :) So, to be fair, all the credit goes to this certain Amnesty Yugoslavia.
    (icj1, 6 August 2016 23:55)

    ---

    To be honest, Amnesty Yugoslavia did not associate a nerological disorder with an entire ethnic group. The only credit for that association goes to icj1, the CB of B92.

    Further, icj1's perverted inference that I should be credited with his disgusting comments speaks to the type of "evidence" recognized by him and his warped ICTY-polluted mind.
    (Amnesty Yugoslavia, 7 August 2016 18:43)

    # Comment link

  5. Secondly, it hasnt changed in Serbia's favour either
    (aaa, 5 August 2016 19:16)

    In 1999 NATO bombed Russia so when I say that the balance of power has changed I don't mean Serbia. Serbs are free to join us any moment they understand that it's the only way for them to survive as a nation but not a crowd of human beings. NATO attack of 1999 is mentioned in Russia as an insult more often than in Serbia. And we are make them pay the bill some day. Same with the local lackeys of the west. NATO is a media spekesman of the USA as it has no military meaning. Meanwhile the US will fight for nobody but for themselves. At least when it comes to Russia ... So best if you forget about Chapter-5 right now!
    (rote, 6 August 2016 08:36)


    rote,
    Not a very convincing argument, Russia can't even get Turkey to pay for the jets it shot down. And you think Putin can make the USA pay for the humanitarian damage it did to Serbia, instead, they will fart in Putin's face and Vlad will thank them.
    (The Count of Kosova, 7 August 2016 15:39)

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  6. Meanwhile the US will fight for nobody but for themselves
    (rote, 6 August 2016 08:36)

    And Russia will fight out of some sense of goodwill and moral obligation? Dream on, rote
    (aaa, 7 August 2016 12:27)

    # Comment link

  7. Our dear friend Amnesty Yugoslavia is in a better position to answer your question if that was the same week when he/she first realised that for a certain group of people something seems real even though it does not really exist.
    (icj1, 5 August 2016 21:25)

    Amnesty Yugoslavia was an infant with emerging cognitive abilities when AY learned human beings, either in groups or individuals, have concepts such as faith, identity, ethnicity and other abstract concepts in their heart and souls.
    (Amnesty Yugoslavia, 6 August 2016 21:43)

    Absolutely! Nobody disputed that Amnesty Yugoslavia was an infant with emerging cognitive abilities when AY learned human beings, either in groups or individuals, have concepts such as faith, identity, ethnicity and other abstract concepts in their heart and souls. I'm glad that you finally convinced yourself about that today!
    (icj1, 7 August 2016 00:02)

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  8. Our dear friend Amnesty Yugoslavia is in a better position to answer your question if that was the same week when he/she first realised that for a certain group of people something seems real even though it does not really exist.
    (icj1, 5 August 2016 21:25)

    Amnesty Yugoslavia was an infant with emerging cognitive abilities when AY learned human beings, either in groups or individuals, have concepts such as faith, identity, ethnicity and other abstract concepts in their heart and souls.
    (Amnesty Yugoslavia, 6 August 2016 21:43)

    Absolutely. Nobody disputed the AY learning above. I'm glad that you finally convinced yourself today that Amnesty Yugoslavia was an infant with emerging cognitive abilities when AY learned human beings, either in groups or individuals, have concepts such as faith, identity, ethnicity and other abstract concepts in their heart and souls.
    (icj1, 6 August 2016 23:59)

    # Comment link

  9. icj1, the CB of B92, associated an entire ethnic group with a neurological disorder on August 2nd.
    The following link
    [link]
    contsins icj1's Mengele-inspired bigotry.

    P.S. CB=Chief Bigot
    (Amnesty Yugoslavia, 6 August 2016 05:02)

    According to that link, icj1 was just referring to the assertion by a certain Amnesty Yugoslavia that for a certain group of people something seems real even though it does not really exist :) So, to be fair, all the credit goes to this certain Amnesty Yugoslavia.
    (icj1, 6 August 2016 23:55)

    # Comment link

  10. Our dear friend Amnesty Yugoslavia is in a better position to answer your question if that was the same week when he/she first realised that for a certain group of people something seems real even though it does not really exist.
    (icj1, 5 August 2016 21:25)

    ---

    Amnesty Yugoslavia was an infant with emerging cognitive abilities when AY learned human beings, either in groups or individuals, have concepts such as faith, identity, ethnicity and other abstract concepts in their heart and souls. Amnesty Yugoslavia also realized that some humans, such as icj1 - the CB of B92 - are evil and associate ethnic identity with a medical disorder.
    The Mengele-based preverted thesis from icj1, the CB of B92, can be found in the following link:
    [link]

    PS CB= Chief Bigot
    (Amnesty Yugoslavia, 6 August 2016 21:43)

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  11. Serbia is without hope
    (adrian_bucharest, 6 August 2016 10:11)

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  12. What's worse is that the current governments are now interpreting events 21 years ago according to the narratives of "the crazies". The annual sh!t show Zagreb puts on is predictably answered by all sorts of huffing and puffing from Belgrade.

    That's why I absolutely hate the commemorative "holidays".
    (Balkan Anthropologist, 5 August 2016 20:53)

    I know, its essentially turned into a pissing contest. It doesnt help that the governments are shoving a victimhood mentality down the throats of the public. Hence, whenever a politician apologies for crimes their ethnic group/government committed, there is always a 'but', 'however' or 'we were victims too' that follows.

    Ideally a commemoration where all victims are honored and remembered, and the end of hostilities treated with sober respect and contemplation/reflection would come to being. But Im not holding my breath
    (aaa, 6 August 2016 09:51)

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  13. Secondly, it hasnt changed in Serbia's favour either
    (aaa, 5 August 2016 19:16)

    In 1999 NATO bombed Russia so when I say that the balance of power has changed I don't mean Serbia. Serbs are free to join us any moment they understand that it's the only way for them to survive as a nation but not a crowd of human beings. NATO attack of 1999 is mentioned in Russia as an insult more often than in Serbia. And we are make them pay the bill some day. Same with the local lackeys of the west. NATO is a media spekesman of the USA as it has no military meaning. Meanwhile the US will fight for nobody but for themselves. At least when it comes to Russia ... So best if you forget about Chapter-5 right now!
    (rote, 6 August 2016 08:36)

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  14. It was the third week of July 2016
    (icj1, 5 August 2016 21:25)

    ---
    To clarify one of the dates precisely:
    icj1, the CB of B92, associated an entire ethnic group with a neurological disorder on August 2nd.
    The following link
    [link]
    contsins icj1's Mengele-inspired bigotry.

    P.S. CB=Chief Bigot
    (Amnesty Yugoslavia, 6 August 2016 05:02)

    # Comment link

  15. I regret to remind you that Serb laborers who had gone to Mother Russia for work returned home penniless after being cheated by their Russian bosses.
    (EU Citizen, 5 August 2016 16:36

    Serbs have gone to France and Germany to work and some have been cheated by their employers. There are people who cheat workers and your point is????
    (sj, 6 August 2016 00:40)

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  16. I actually followed the advice of the CE of B92 forums sj and travelled to Romania and I did indeed find Serbs working there picking fruit.

    But, as always, I agree with the CE of B92 forums sj that those Serbs should immediately stop doing that because the CE of B92 forums sj has so commanded :)

    P.S. CE = Chief Economist
    (icj1, 5 August 2016 15:49)

    ---

    Was during the same week icj1, the CB of B92, associated an entire ethnic group with s neurological disorder?

    P.S. CB = Chief Bigot
    (Amnesty Yugoslavia, 5 August 2016 17:30)

    It was the third week of July 2016...

    Our dear friend Amnesty Yugoslavia is in a better position to answer your question if that was the same week when he/she first realised that for a certain group of people something seems real even though it does not really exist.
    (icj1, 5 August 2016 21:25)

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  17. those locals - both Serbs and Croats - who did 'give in' to the rheotric and follow the lead of the crazies are just as bad (maybe even worse) than the volunteer crazies
    (aaa, 5 August 2016 15:34)

    What's worse is that the current governments are now interpreting events 21 years ago according to the narratives of "the crazies". The annual sh!t show Zagreb puts on is predictably answered by all sorts of huffing and puffing from Belgrade.

    That's why I absolutely hate the commemorative "holidays".
    (Balkan Anthropologist, 5 August 2016 20:53)

    # Comment link

  18. THE WORLD HAS CHANGED AND NOT IN CROATIA'S FAVOR ...
    (rote, 5 August 2016 18:21)

    Firstly, shhhh not so loud Rote, the caps lock button is just to the left.

    Secondly, it hasnt changed in Serbia's favour either
    (aaa, 5 August 2016 19:16)

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  19. I DON'T KNOW HOW WISE IT IS TO REMIND US OF OUR DEFEAT.
    NOW THAT WE ARE STRONG ENOUGH TO AVENGE.
    THE WORLD HAS CHANGED AND NOT IN CROATIA'S FAVOR ...
    (rote, 5 August 2016 18:21)

    # Comment link

  20. I actually followed the advice of the CE of B92 forums sj and travelled to Romania and I did indeed find Serbs working there picking fruit.

    But, as always, I agree with the CE of B92 forums sj that those Serbs should immediately stop doing that because the CE of B92 forums sj has so commanded :)

    P.S. CE = Chief Economist
    (icj1, 5 August 2016 15:49)

    ---

    Was during the same week icj1, the CB of B92, associated an entire ethnic group with s neurological disorder?

    P.S. CB = Chief Bigot
    (Amnesty Yugoslavia, 5 August 2016 17:30)

    # Comment link

  21. Serbia is poor but I have seen Romanian and Bulgarians working in Serbia picking fruit. I have not seen Serbs in your country doing the same.
    (sj, 5 August 2016 14:59)

    sj,
    I regret to remind you that Serb laborers who had gone to Mother Russia for work returned home penniless after being cheated by their Russian bosses.
    (EU Citizen, 5 August 2016 16:36)

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  22. Serbia is poor but I have seen Romanian and Bulgarians working in Serbia picking fruit. I have not seen Serbs in your country doing the same.
    (sj, 5 August 2016 14:59)

    I actually followed the advice of the CE of B92 forums sj and travelled to Romania and I did indeed find Serbs working there picking fruit.

    But, as always, I agree with the CE of B92 forums sj that those Serbs should immediately stop doing that because the CE of B92 forums sj has so commanded :)

    P.S. CE = Chief Economist
    (icj1, 5 August 2016 15:49)

    # Comment link

  23. (Balkan Anthropologist, 5 August 2016 15:01)

    Well said, absolutely agree. Indeed the hatred and mistrust doesnt just happen overnight, as you mentioned. Without wishing to repeat myself ad nauseum, those locals - both Serbs and Croats - who did 'give in' to the rheotric and follow the lead of the crazies are just as bad (maybe even worse) than the volunteer crazies
    (aaa, 5 August 2016 15:34)

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  24. The natural order of events seemed to be leading towards conflict, although the arrival of the crazies cemented this possibility.
    (aaa, 5 August 2016 10:27)

    Yes, the mood was already toxic, having been stirred by rhetoric from Tudjman that surprised most, and sensationalized by media in Belgrade eager to raise tensions instead of reduce them. As I said, Tudjman and Milosevic were two partners in the same adventure and one couldn't have gotten where they were without the other. Croatia's constitution which effectively reduced ethnic Serbs to second-class citizens greatly contributed to this, but it wasn't enough to justify war, let alone start it. Likewise, the Serbian media obsessing over the use of the shavonica was also sensationalized since it was part of SR Croatia.

    With that in mind, tensions were high in some areas and barricades may have gone up as preventive measures, but until the crazies deliberately killed a family, burned a village, or shot at police, all of this could have been diffused. The problem is that leaders on both sides didn't want to diffuse the situation even though the overwhelming majority of Serbs and Croats did not want war.

    As to whether a number of them because "willing executioners" once conflict started as Nikolle suggests is another story but it does not indicate that people spontaneously turned on each other for no good reason. There is no direct route from mistrust to ethnic cleansing.
    (Balkan Anthropologist, 5 August 2016 15:01)

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  25. Sj why in your Serbia the minimum and average salary are now with 50% under Romania and keep growing the gap , if Belgrade is even 30% of Serbia ?

    you see Belgrade is weak
    (adrian_bucharest, 5 August 2016 14:28)

    I suggest you attend English language classes becasue you do not make sense. I was in Romania and if you call that high standard of living you are on another planet.

    Serbia is poor but I have seen Romanian and Bulgarians working in Serbia picking fruit. I have not seen Serbs in your country doing the same.
    (sj, 5 August 2016 14:59)

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  26. Sj why in your Serbia the minimum and average salary are now with 50% under Romania and keep growing the gap , if Belgrade is even 30% of Serbia ?

    you see Belgrade is weak
    (adrian_bucharest, 5 August 2016 14:28)

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  27. Sj -> i live in 2016 as live the capitalist from West

    I even don`t work , i rent 2 flats and i get 650 euro per month

    not to mention me parrents have together pension 700 euro.

    We are DOING so good and well in this BUCHAREST
    (adrian_bucharest, 4 August 2016 16:35)

    What the f** does your situation have to do with GDP? I know Serbs that earn 3000 Euros per month in Belgrade, so what has that to do with GDP?????? What about the rest? I was in Bucharest and traveled through Romania so your surname has to be Ceausescu.
    (sj, 5 August 2016 13:55)

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  28. FOR SASA from Jagodina

    Ceausescu it saved the life of me parrents and mine .

    Father was put be Ceausescu in a factory and he never was doing nothing he was going there from 9 am 10 am ( when woke up and stay there for few hours ) then he got very decent pension

    We also got the apartaments of relatives grandfather , grandmother that we rent ( we lived from better to better )

    even me mom who not had a pension because she turned 60 old and married with father they gave to her a decent pension in 2016 for what she worked during Ceausescu .

    SASA from JAGODINA who is born nowdays is screewed if is without education and without potential

    I PERSONALY GO AT CEAUSESCU GRAVE FOR THANK TO HIM
    (adrian_bucharest, 5 August 2016 11:17)

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  29. For SASA .

    Ceausescu period was better than 1990s During Ceausescu period all people had a job , a house + then a pension

    1990s the worst of worst

    2000-2005 a progress but still bad

    2005-2008 a period when salaries pensions things doubled

    2009-2013 a stagnation

    2014-2016 a big progress in standard of life , minimum salary , average salary

    I personaly think that people from Bucharest Romania , live better than people from West because they can live decent without working + who is educated have good income , average salary in Bucharest is 800 euro . and it grow year by year with 70-80 euro seince 2012 .
    (adrian_bucharest, 5 August 2016 09:

    To Adrian,
    Must be joking, In Australia,people live great in a beautiful country.With Salaries larger than your Romania .
    But cost of living,has to be taken in account, your salary,cost of house,cost if bills,cost of food,cost of education.
    If they close Dacia car factory and a few more factories,we see how quickly does this lifestyle become.
    You live well,when you do not depend on your salary and live off investment's )))))
    (sasa.p from near Jagodina, Serbia, 5 August 2016 10:29)

    # Comment link

  30. (Balkan Anthropologist, 5 August 2016 08:05)

    I completely agree with you, that the same can be applied to the local Croat population - I mearly focussed on RSK/local Serbs due to the subject of the conversation.

    I guess my main point was that although both populations were manupulated and swindled by their respective political powers, a large part did ultimatly go along with the rhetoric and take matters into their own hands - and for that they share part of the blame.

    As an example, by 1991 the Krajina Serbs had already rebelled, armed and set up barricades - although there was support from Serbia, it was primarily local leadership and manpower which did the action (to the best of my knowledge there werent a great deal of volunteers at the time, please correct me if Im wrong). The locals had already gone from rebellion to barricades more-or-less under their own initiative. The natural order of events seemed to be leading towards conflict, although the arrival of the crazies cemented this possibility.
    (aaa, 5 August 2016 10:27)

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  31. @BA

    That almost seemed a pitch for Yugoslavia that I was reading, or if not a pitch, a reminiscence for it. Never mind that however, not willing to go into how conflicts start as that is far too broad a discussion. My point is this, locals were willing and I have no reason to believe this any less, willing, to buy into the narrative of the crazies as you so call them. Killings carried out in the initial stages of the conflict by people that had apparently lived in peace for 40 odd years contradicts the impression that really, they were all pawns to the schemes of others. This is why to suggest that 90% of those that were sadly expelled had nothing to do with anything is far too fanciful. Not that I am in any way condoning ethnic expulsion but to blame it all on crazies does not fly
    (Nikolle, 5 August 2016 10:20)

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  32. For SASA .

    Ceausescu period was better than 1990s During Ceausescu period all people had a job , a house + then a pension

    1990s the worst of worst

    2000-2005 a progress but still bad

    2005-2008 a period when salaries pensions things doubled

    2009-2013 a stagnation

    2014-2016 a big progress in standard of life , minimum salary , average salary

    I personaly think that people from Bucharest Romania , live better than people from West because they can live decent without working + who is educated have good income , average salary in Bucharest is 800 euro . and it grow year by year with 70-80 euro seince 2012 .
    (adrian_bucharest, 5 August 2016 09:13)

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  33. Did they pay proper respects to their western masters that made "oluja" possible, as it would not exist without their logistical support? Croats always ran crying to western powers to fight their battles for them. They are incapable of accomplishing anything on their own. They should be bowing and kissing the shoes of every German they see because without them they would not exist.
    (Nikola, 4 August 2016 20:10)

    And western indifference during the early 1990s made the foundation of RSK/RS possbile. Didnt see any Serbs kissing the feet of the west at the time.
    (aaa, 5 August 2016 08:44)

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  34. even out you say ? 60,000 Serbs vs over 300,000 croats and outside help which the numbers were 400,000+ and you still got bombed out before the world came in to help you ......croats were running around like cowards until then.......yea everyone is still laughing at you....
    (oh yea laughing loud, 4 August 2016 19:26)

    Like I said, its easy to brag when you have the heavy weaponary and advantagenous positions/terrain - this coupled with the fact the most of the Western world was siding with Yugoslavia/the Serbs at the start of the war.

    Furthermore, the Serbs/JNA had the numerical advantage during 1991-92 - still those 70,000 Croats or so managed to keep them at bay. All that advantage and you could only take 1/3 of Croatia, primarily areas where there was already sizeable Serb population? Despite the initial numerical odds against them, the Croats chose to fight - when the tables turned it was your 'heroic' Serbs that ran like cowards.

    400,000? There were approximatly 200,000 Croats fighting by 1995, no need to exagerate.

    The war was far from a laughing matter. Then again, you know what they say about people who laugh last.
    (aaa, 5 August 2016 08:36)

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  35. The propaganda machines had well been in action during the 1980s, so that when the time came to choose sides, people did. Not so unfathomable, yet incredibly disappointing. You can blame Serbia/the volunteers for 'sowing the seeds', yet the Krajina Serbs reciprocated.
    (aaa, 4 August 2016 18:29)

    The same can be said for some the Croats who bought into the narratives of the HDZ and volunteered as special police forces to patrol Serb-inhabited areas under the pretext that they would resist Croatia's independence movement - which of course confirmed suspicions among local Serbs that NDH-erd propaganda was returning - and which played right into Milosevic's hands.

    Although Croats did tend to gravitate towards border towns as mentioned, there is no doubt that 'pressure' (a better term might be intimidation, even violence) was also imparted from the Krajina forces.
    (aaa, 4 August 2016 18:29)

    We also should then consider that Serbs living in more formal towns were compelled to leave for the villages. This narratives that Croats were "cleansed" in Krajina was less a forced expulsion than both sides migrating to where their ethnic kin was the majority. In Croats' case, it remained in the towns, while Serbs were, if you will, "expelled" also from Karlovac, Zagreb, Zadar, and Split and ended up in the Krajina hinterland.

    To make the unmixing of communities more permanent took the "crazies" I mentioned to terrorize, burn, loot, and kill if need be.
    (Balkan Anthropologist, 5 August 2016 08:05)

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  36. your explanation gives the impression that ultimately the populations there, either Serb or Croat were simply victims of the designs of others and they themselves were powerless to affect anything.
    (Nikolle, 4 August 2016 18:42)

    That's effectively what I'm saying and that's effectively how most conflicts start: at the top and directed by people in power. Granted there will always be crazies in the local community, but it's really difficult to go from neighbor to combatant willing to burn down your house and kill you without some pretextual event caused by the outside.

    In this case, enter the imported crazies who have no connection to the region and are effectively paid to cause mayhem. Serbs and Croats had them and they basically were sent to cause terror and panic to a people already on edge but left to themselves not willing to kill. You also have to remember that prior to the wars, Serbs, Croats, and Bosnians had high degrees of intermarriage because of cultural similarities. Differences may have persisted, but as I said, you don't go from living together for four decades under bratsvo i jedinstvo to suddenly being card-carrying nationalists.

    The same can be said for Kosovo where it takes a special kinds of crazies to turn suspicious-yet-passive communities into mobilizing against each other.

    And as far as Krajina was concerned, yes, the locals were powerless to do anything because very few suspected it would start out and end up the way it did.
    (Balkan Anthropologist, 5 August 2016 07:57)

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  37. The greatest military victory since Normandy.
    (SAO Fail, 4 August 2016 13:24)

    I like to think the Battle of Berlin was the greatest military victory since Normandy, but aren't you a cute little n00b trying to promote Croatia as something important.
    (LOL, 5 August 2016 01:42)

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  38. Azir, three stupid posts with no one to reply to you. Are you that desperate for attention? Are you phishing for an argument and when no one replied you felt compelled to come back here and write more in hopes of getting people angry with your trolling? Go away. You're boring and have nothing to add.
    (Shut up Azir, 5 August 2016 01:12)

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  39. Sj -> i live in 2016 as live the capitalist from West

    I even don`t work , i rent 2 flats and i get 650 euro per month

    not to mention me parrents have together pension 700 euro.

    We are DOING so good and well in this BUCHAREST
    (adrian_bucharest, 4 August 2016 16:


    Finally,Your parents can finally buy everyday the meat that Nicolae Ceaușescu deprived them,and gave them corn bread only to eat for 30 years.
    Don't worry,we in Serbia have 25 SLAVA'S to enjoy meat,lol
    (sasa.p from near Jagodina, Serbia, 4 August 2016 23:07)

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  40. Happy Operation Storm Day! Great success. Also great to see Croatia, Kosovo, Bosnia free from serbian isis tendencies.
    (LOL, 4 August 2016 22:26)

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  41. Did they pay proper respects to their western masters that made "oluja" possible, as it would not exist without their logistical support? Croats always ran crying to western powers to fight their battles for them. They are incapable of accomplishing anything on their own. They should be bowing and kissing the shoes of every German they see because without them they would not exist.
    (Nikola, 4 August 2016 20:10)

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  42. The Serbs already did that in 1991-1992 - hence Operation Storm.

    it was like 60,000 serbs against over 300,000 croats lolol now that's funny....
    (yea ok, 4 August 2016 16:38)

    With all the weaponry, terrain considerations and the distribution of occupied areas, its again no surprise since there was a clear advantage. But once the odds began to even out, what happened then? Still laughing?
    (aaa, 4 August 2016 17:07) you mean 91- 95 before the fake storm happened killing unarmed since they signed and left from world pressure....


    even out you say ? 60,000 Serbs vs over 300,000 croats and outside help which the numbers were 400,000+ and you still got bombed out before the world came in to help you ......croats were running around like cowards until then.......yea everyone is still laughing at you....
    (oh yea laughing loud, 4 August 2016 19:26)

    # Comment link

  43. Before Operation Storm there were 480,000 refugees in Croatia from Serbian held areas of Croatia and Bosnia.

    After Storm there were 200,000 more refugees created but at the same time 350,000 refugees from camps in Croatia were able to go back to their homes in former Serb held areas of Croatia and BiH.

    The reduction of 150,000 total refugees was a positive.

    It was a negative for the 200,000 Serbs but a positive for the 350,000 Croatian/ Bosnian refugees who were out of their homes since 1992/1992.
    (Mark, 4 August 2016 19:22)

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  44. Bravo Croatia!

    The West and all freedom loving people in the International Community support your liberarion from Serb Terrrorism.

    Block Serbia from EU until we get an
    1-apology
    2- war restitution/compensation
    3-guarentee never to commit aggression again.
    4- establish national De-Nazification centers through out Serbia.
    5-liberation of all non-Serbs from Serbia!
    (Azir, 4 August 2016 18:52)

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  45. Sorry BA, but your explanation gives the impression that ultimately the populations there, either Serb or Croat were simply victims of the designs of others and they themselves were powerless to affect anything. It almost says that neither of them really minded if the geographical area they lived in was called or controlled Serbia, Croatia or Yugoslavia or for that matter ruled by any of the three entities. Its too easy to blame it all or most on either Sloba & Tudjman for what went on
    (Nikolle, 4 August 2016 18:42)

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  46. Balkan Anthropologist and Nikolle,

    I think the truth lies in both your posts. Most definitely irregulars were driven in to not only bolster troop numbers, but also make the atmosphere amongst the population more 'hostile'.

    Although the Krajina Serbs were ultimately stuck between and rock and a hard place, they still have their share to blame. A large share of the local male population did serve in the police and millitia. As crazy as it does seem that neighbours could turn on each other, seemingly over night, that is precisely what happened - much more commonly unfortunately. The propaganda machines had well been in action during the 1980s, so that when the time came to choose sides, people did. Not so unfathomable, yet incredibly disappointing. You can blame Serbia/the volunteers for 'sowing the seeds', yet the Krajina Serbs reciprocated.

    Although Croats did tend to gravitate towards border towns as mentioned, there is no doubt that 'pressure' (a better term might be intimidation, even violence) was also imparted from the Krajina forces. Ultimately they remained loyal to their leadership which carved out an entity based on ethnic cleansing and hostility - the end price was indeed high.
    (aaa, 4 August 2016 18:29)

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  47. The only data, indicators, facts, etc that should be used are those provided by the CE of B92 forums sj who has dedicated his/her life to meticulous research on such matters.

    P.S. CE = Chief Economist
    (icj1, 4 August 2016 15:40)

    ---

    icj1, the C.B. of B92 forums, speaks from deep personal experience. He/she alone can perversely associate neurological disorders with an entire ethnic group. Moreover, icj1 further claims such idiocy as "evidence", despite the fact that this idiotic association was only conjured in his/her warped mind. Apologists of the ICTY are apples that clearly don't fall far from the tree.

    P.S. C.B.=Chief Bigot
    (Amnesty Yugoslavia, 4 August 2016 18:17)

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  48. ...right, so ultimately, if your narrative should hold true, Krinja Serbs or 90% of them, owe their sad fate to crazed Serbs from Serbia proper, bussed in by Sloba to carry out the carnage and ethnic expulsion.
    (Nikolle, 4 August 2016 16:22)

    In part yes. Tudjman wanted them out, and Milosevic saw them as a pawn in starting a conflict. Both worked to perpetuate war and spread fear. One couldn't have accomplished his goal without the other. Croats within the so-called RSK (which existed more as a mental conception than a physical entity since it held no strategic area and in more than one instance Serb military forces were ordered to pull out of towns and give up their hold of natural barriers) gravitated towards the border towns while Serbs moved into the villages. The prevailing assumption was that all would return to their homes once the conflict stopped, which explains why irregulars from both sides needed to intensify the violence to make sure that never happened.

    In truth, Krajina Serbs need to blame Milosevic almost as much as Tudjman for exploiting their presence and doing nothing to defend them in 1995, which is when ironically Croatia's so-called military made its grand reconquest of a territory largely undefended.

    Of course 20+ years later that's all rhetorical since both states operate under two extremely sanitized narratives more fantastical than truthful.
    (Balkan Anthropologist, 4 August 2016 17:37)

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  49. (non serb, 4 August 2016 16:51)
    'Krajina should get full autonomy and all Serbs to get paid for their losses'

    If the Croat majority living there decides it, then so be it.

    'and or Slavonia to vote to join Serbia since they are a absolute majority'

    I think you are mistaken - Croats are and always have been the absolute majority in Slavonia. But if they decide to vote to join Serbia, good luck to them
    (aaa, 4 August 2016 17:10)

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  50. Reclaiming a deserted area with only a few old people left to defend their homes from a Croatian army ordered not to engage direct Yugoslavia forces is probably the only way Croats could ever win a fight.
    (Sieg Fail, 4 August 2016 15:17)

    Likewise the only way the Serbs could win was by disarming the Croats and handing their weapons to the local Serbs, and taking using the JNA as a barrier while the paramilitaries murdered and pillaged.

    Once again, refer to the operations leading up to Storm - the Croats armed and trained by that stage and the military playing field was more level. You'll see exactly how capable the Croats were.

    what Croats are doing to Serbs in Croatia right now with no consequences ,Serbia should do the same
    (yea ok, 4 August 2016 16:38)

    The Serbs already did that in 1991-1992 - hence Operation Storm.

    it was like 60,000 serbs against over 300,000 croats lolol now that's funny....
    (yea ok, 4 August 2016 16:38)

    With all the weaponry, terrain considerations and the distribution of occupied areas, its again no surprise since there was a clear advantage. But once the odds began to even out, what happened then? Still laughing?
    (aaa, 4 August 2016 17:07)

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  51. (adrian_bucharest, 4 August 2016 12:43)
    Please stop looking at GDP data that you do not understand.
    (sj, 4 August 2016 13:53)

    Duh Adrian get with the program. No-one here understands these things, you must wait for sj to explain it.
    Its simple , if the facts agree with sjs opinion then they are real facts, if they don't agree with sj then they are fake facts spread by the MSM.
    Having a higher/increasing GDP does not mean Romania is more successful than Serbia, but if Serbia has a higher GDP than Romania, then it means Serbia is more successful than Romania....understand now??
    (Dwight, 4 August 2016 17:00)

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  52. Krajina should get full autonomy and all Serbs to get paid for their losses and or Slavonia to vote to join Serbia since they are a absolute majority….they don’t have to live with these people…..this storm was a fraud anyway since the serbs left before it happened ....my uncle was there as a peacekeeper ......have a nice day.....and to you Serbs in the region you should start having a higher birthrate ........
    (non serb, 4 August 2016 16:51)

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  53. what Croats are doing to Serbs in Croatia right now with no consequences ,Serbia should do the same....and storm had nothing to do with Croatia ,the Serbs signed and left before the so called storm...everyone knows that....they bombed empty towns and killed woman, children and old, so they are celebrating that wow cowards.......they were crying when they fought Serbs with weapons and yet it was like 60,000 serbs against over 300,000 croats lolol now that's funny....
    (yea ok, 4 August 2016 16:38)

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  54. Sj -> i live in 2016 as live the capitalist from West

    I even don`t work , i rent 2 flats and i get 650 euro per month

    not to mention me parrents have together pension 700 euro.

    We are DOING so good and well in this BUCHAREST
    (adrian_bucharest, 4 August 2016 16:35)

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  55. they keep celebrating something they had nothing to do with......the Serb fighters left their lands of krajina before it happened because Milosevic signed the papers with nato and the west.....so they are celebrating nothing.....there was a deal......the funny thing is 60,000 Serb defenders demolished over 300,000 croat ustasas like nothing....for 5 years so think about.....even their hero Miro Baresic witch they put up a statue of was killed the first 2 weeks of the war lol .......but he could kill a unarmed man with help at a embassy so tough.....not.......
    (storm is a joke, 4 August 2016 16:30)

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  56. @Balkan Anthropologist

    ...right, so ultimately, if your narrative should hold true, Krinja Serbs or 90% of them, owe their sad fate to crazed Serbs from Serbia proper, bussed in by Sloba to carry out the carnage and ethnic expulsion. after all reading the demographic made up of the entity of RSK between 1991 & 1992 one gets the impression that either Croats en msse decided to go on a holiday between those two periods or they didn't have a choice but to leave and if this was the fault of crazies from Serbia, than Krajina Serbs should sue them for all they're worth
    (Nikolle, 4 August 2016 16:22)

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  57. Serbs wanted to create their own "caliphate" long before ISIS. In the end they got what they deserved.
    (Avni, 4 August 2016 16:11)

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  58. Serbs are pathetic traditional celebrating LOSERS.

    Universaly normal people celebrate victories but not the Serbs!

    Croatia with the blessing of the International civilized Community cured it self of this Cancer called Greater Serbia Campaign of Terrror.

    Shameless ignorant creatures such as Ari Gold tends to forget the criminal patttern of Belgrade attacking Slovenia,Croatia,Bosnia and Kosova.

    The civilized world could no longer tolerate serb EVIL.

    All peace loving members of humanity are united with Croatia in their right to defence against Genocide,War Crimes and Crimes against Humanity.

    The UNSC established Hague is over flowing with Serb War Criminals.
    (Azir, 4 August 2016 16:09)

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  59. "A quarter million Serbs all picked up their belongings and left their ancestral on the very same exact day because of orders from Milosevic. Karadzic ordered 100,000 Serbs to evacuate Sarajevo."

    Even Ari is starting to see the light. Thanks for your confessionals, Ari.
    (Bob, 4 August 2016 16:01)

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  60. @ Ari Gold

    #RSK = мртав
    (Nikolle, 4 August 2016 15:57)

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  61. I pity the children of Krajina, they are definitely blameless. The adults who so eagerly took to expelling and murdering Croats in the short lived Republic of Serbia Krajina, not a shred of sympathy for them.
    (Nikolle, 4 August 2016 11:55)

    That accounts for - at best - 10% of the population, while the remaining 90% of Krajina adults had little to do with the war. It takes a considerable leap in logic to believe that people would suddenly turn on neighbors they had lived with and worked with for years if not decades, which is why both Milosevic and Tudjman had to bus in irregulars from outside into the region to cause chaos.

    Both Serbs and Croats fled to their respective sides at the beginning of the conflict with the understanding they would return to their homes when the fighting stopped. In most cases, Serb and Croat homes on the other side of the fault line were neither burned nor looted by the locals because they knew who the owners were. In order to instill fear, both Milosevic and Tudjman bused in "volunteers" (read as crazies from someplace else) to do the killing, the burning, and the looting that created an atmosphere of fear and a sense that there would be no going back. It took a lot of work to separate these two communities, which is now make permanent by conflicting narratives perpetuated every year by their respective governments.

    Your understanding of the conditions in Krajina is quite limited in scope.
    (Balkan Anthropologist, 4 August 2016 15:42)

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  62. stop looking at GDP data
    (sj, 4 August 2016 13:53)

    I totally agree and I invite all other members of these forums to obey the command of the CE of B92 forums sj and not look at GDP data or any other economic indicators not vetted or approved by the CE of B92 forums sj. The only data, indicators, facts, etc that should be used are those provided by the CE of B92 forums sj who has dedicated his/her life to meticulous research on such matters.

    P.S. CE = Chief Economist
    (icj1, 4 August 2016 15:40)

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  63. See, when Serbs are victims of aggression, it's never ethnic cleansing or genocide.
    (Ari Gold, 4 August 2016 12:40)

    Of course, when Serbs (or anybody else for that matter) are victims of aggression, that is called aggression!

    Ethnic cleansing and genocide are crimes different from aggression.
    (icj1, 4 August 2016 15:36)

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  64. Not sure why the good people at B92 cut my most recent comment short. I will just end my opinion on this discussion in my mother tongue:

    Zločin traje, al ne gubimo vjeru, duvaće Oluja u suprotnom smijeru. #RSK
    (Ari Gold, 4 August 2016 15:35)

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  65. Happy ethnic cleansing day to all Croatian fascist wannabe's and their pathetically lame Albanian fan boys. It's the only holiday of its kind that brings the bottom feeders out of the muck and into the Internet comment sections. A totally fabricated celebration for people without memory and without victory. Reclaiming a deserted area with only a few old people left to defend their homes from a Croatian army ordered not to engage direct Yugoslavia forces is probably the only way Croats could ever win a fight.
    (Sieg Fail, 4 August 2016 15:17)

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  66. "... your asses handed to you" and suddenly the language you use Ari Gold, gives an insight into your personality. whilst in the short run, you may have been handing asses out (when you were heavily armed and the other side wasn't) long term, never mind about having behinds handed over, you ended up getting expelled too. now look at you? whining and pining and demanding that you're recognised as a victim too! tell me, did you ever get a glimpse of the izbeglicas from Krajina as I did? Totally traumatised and defeated. Very sad actually but you did not suffer so don't worry
    (Nikolle, 4 August 2016 14:30)

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  67. Nah, Croats didn't do much. NATO logistical support made Oluja possible. Before NATO, you were getting your asses handed to you.
    (Ari Gold, 4 August 2016 14:08)

    Logistical support made it possible, but the ground fighting is what did the difference. The period of when Croatia was getting its ass served was due to the JNA confiscating weapons from Croatians TOs, redistributing them to Croatian Serbs (fifth column essentially) and using the JNA to bolster and cover rebel and paramilitary actions. Not saying that 'fairness' is a key factor in war, but when you have all of the advantages its nothing to gloat about.

    Read up about Operation Flash and other similar battles leading up to Storm - once the military situation was more level it was plain to see the worth of both sides.
    (aaa, 4 August 2016 14:30)

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  68. Nah, Croats didn't do much. NATO logistical support made Oluja possible. Before NATO, you were getting your asses handed to you. Being a lapdog for empires allowed for Jasenovac and Oluja to happen. I never said that being a vassal doesn't have its "advantages". There's just no honor in being someones puppet.
    (Ari Gold, 4 August 2016 14:08)

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  69. I see Serbia gdp fall down in 2 quater from 3,5% to 1,8% while of Romania from 4,3% to 5,1% . Where is now arigold and rote with " keep on trucking " and " Serbia call the shoots " . We are doing here in Romania so well nowdays , in special in Bucharest renting Ceausescu apartaments . Only could fall down from 3,5% to 1,8% lol
    (adrian_bucharest, 4 August 2016 12:43)

    Do you actually live in Romania? I doubt it. I was there on several occasions last year and I can tell you Romania is no paradise. Bulgaria and Romania even after joining the EU are far worse off than Serbia.
    Please stop looking at GDP data that you do not understand.
    (sj, 4 August 2016 13:53)

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  70. The greatest military victory since Normandy. All these so called hard core Chetnik scumbags from Knin who spread lies to its people that a Greater Serbia will be created all fled to BL.
    Martic - Convicted War Criminal
    Babic - Apologised to Croats
    Captain Dragan - Soon to be jailed for life.
    Goran Hadzic - War Criminal
    General Celekitic - Wanted for war crimes
    General Novakovic - Wanted for war crimes
    Sinisa Martic Silt - wanted for war crimes

    The list goes on and on........
    OLUJA will continue to be celebrated for generations. Well done to all those brave soldiers who participated in driving out these fascist Chetnik scumbags from our lands.
    (SAO Fail, 4 August 2016 13:24)

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  71. (Ari Gold, 4 August 2016 12:40)

    'Right, exactly. A quarter million Serbs all picked up their belongings and left their ancestral on the very same exact day because of "orders from Milosevic"'

    The order is right here - read it for yourself

    [link]

    'See, when Serbs are victims of aggression, it's never ethnic cleansing or genocide'

    I never said that Serbs werent victims of agression, ethnic cleansing or acts pertaining to genocide. But self-evacuation and ethnic cleansing are two distinct things. Indeed Serbs were victims of various crimes during operation storm - but evacuating before the main force arrives and then crying how you were somehow 'forced' out, thats where the distinction lies

    'the same country that also unveiled a monument to a convicted terrorist'

    You must be refering to Serbia and its statue of Gavrilo Princip in Belgrade

    'He said "Croats are the bravest people in the world. Not because they have no fear, but because they have no shame". Mind you he said this before Jasenovac, before Oluja... but he could see what was on the horizon. I don't think all Croats are like that, but certainly the Ustashe are'

    Well the Serbs certainly did well in the 1990s to meet the 'standard' set by Croats. Likewise I dont think all Serbs are like that, though the Chetniks certainly are
    (amnesia, 4 August 2016 13:15)

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  72. Regarding the expulsion and murder of Eastern Orthodox Christiany in the Srpska Krajina, serbian have no one to blame but them selves! Well over one million and probably closer to two million Serbian people tortured and murdered by Croatian Nazi Ustase during World War Two and Serbian people put Josif Broz Tito a Croatian on the throne in Beograd! Tito became the mortal God of Serbian people from 1945 until his death in 1980! Tito did a very good job hushing up the Croatian attrocities commited during World War Two on Eastern Orthodox Christianity in the Balkans! Serbian people kept a tight lip and the world never learned of the Croatian monsters existence! So came along the next opportunity for Croatian Nazi Ustasa in the 1990's with full support and blessing of the USA, England and Germany! Croatia today exist's only because Serbia permited it, now it is too late to complain, the damage is permanent! As long as Serbian people turn a blind eye to their Brothers and Sisters and continue divided their is no hope of salvation. The only hope of any salvation for Serbia and it's humanity is through Dear Mother Russia!!!
    (Dragoljub Djurkovic, 4 August 2016 13:10)

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  73. I see Serbia gdp fall down in 2 quater from 3,5% to 1,8% while of Romania from 4,3% to 5,1% . Where is now arigold and rote with " keep on trucking " and " Serbia call the shoots " . We are doing here in Romania so well nowdays , in special in Bucharest renting Ceausescu apartaments . Only could fall down from 3,5% to 1,8% lol
    (adrian_bucharest, 4 August 2016 12:43)

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  74. Serbs evacuatted well ahead of the Croatian offensive under the orders of their own leadership - sorry Ari, not ethnic cleansing. Im guessing by 'ethnic cleansing' you are refering to the non-Serbs that were expelled from the RSK
    (amnesia, 4 August 2016 11:47)

    Right, exactly. A quarter million Serbs all picked up their belongings and left their ancestral on the very same exact day because of "orders from Milosevic". The same arguments are used by the Bosnian Muslims when arguing that Karadzic ordered 100,000 Serbs to evacuate Sarajevo. See, when Serbs are victims of aggression, it's never ethnic cleansing or genocide. I guess those young Croats who are seeking forgiveness for Oluja are just brainwashed by YugoSerbo propaganda... in the middle of Nazi Croatia.

    But can anyone really be shocked that Croatia's national holiday is a celebration of ethnic cleansing? The same country that rehabilitates a Nazi cleric who blessed concentration camps and forcefully converted over 100,000 people to Catholicism is the same country that also unveiled a monument to a convicted terrorist.

    Jovan Ducic, argued against Serbia forming Yugoslavia and bringing Croatia into civilization. He said "Croats are the bravest people in the world. Not because they have no fear, but because they have no shame". Mind you he said this before Jasenovac, before Oluja... but he could see what was on the horizon. I don't think all Croats are like that, but certainly the Ustashe are.
    (Ari Gold, 4 August 2016 12:40)

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  75. Moderatori,mozete li barem jedan dan da ne objavljujete provokativne komentare albanaca? SRAMOTA DA NI OVAJ DAN NE MOZETE DA IH BLOKIRATE I POBRISITE IM KOMENTARE
    (igor, 4 August 2016 12:10)

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  76. @Ari

    If Serbs can celebrate genocides in Bonsia and Croatia, you're damn right Croatia and her allies have and should celebrate expulsion of Serbs who have committed crime in Croatia.

    Serbs loved every moment when they committed some of the worst atrocities since ww2. Now you want to complain about Croatians an @$$ whooping.
    (Guest, 4 August 2016 12:07)

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  77. I pity the children of Krajina, they are definitely blameless. The adults who so eagerly took to expelling and murdering Croats in the short lived Republic of Serbia Krajina, not a shred of sympathy for them.
    (Nikolle, 4 August 2016 11:55)

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  78. @sj:

    That's why many young Croats are leaving Croatia. They want to live in normal countries, and not in the backward Balkan region.
    (Matej Ivančić, 4 August 2016 11:54)

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  79. Only mentally disturbed people can celebrate as their national holiday the ethnic cleansing of a quarter million people from their indigenous homes and the murder of 2600 civilians in the process.
    (Ari Gold, 4 August 2016 10:37)

    Serbs evacuatted well ahead of the Croatian offensive under the orders of their own leadership - sorry Ari, not ethnic cleansing. Im guessing by 'ethnic cleansing' you are refering to the non-Serbs that were expelled from the RSK - amazing how Serbs always forget to mention that.

    Only mentally disturbed people continue to perpetuate their serious vicitm complex, substituting fact with ficiton (or half-truths at best) while 'forgetting' their own crimes. Sad and sickening.
    (amnesia, 4 August 2016 11:47)

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  80. Only mentaly disturbed cretures such as serbs celebrate military loses.

    Operation Cancer Removal was a success.

    Patient Croatia went on progressing to become EU and NATO members.

    Serbia continues to contanminate but shrinking....
    (Azir, 4 August 2016 11:18)

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  81. Oluja was sanctioned the US. However, it also shows to the young generation of Serbs the quality of Croats as people and their bestial behaviour. Sadly, Serbs are a funny people, good hearted, generous, quick to forgive and accepting. You only have to look at Albanians of Roma extraction that were kicked out of Kosovo by their bros but Serbia accepted them.
    The question has to be asked why do some young Croats put billboards around Zagreb? Some have a few brains to realise that this situation will not last for ever and when the situation changes not even God will help them. But these are only a few people who see where this is heading.

    What we see and read in the media about Croatia is an aberration, its he true nature of Croats.
    (sj, 4 August 2016 11:14)

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  82. Only mentally disturbed people can celebrate as their national holiday the ethnic cleansing of a quarter million people from their indigenous homes and the murder of 2600 civilians in the process. And no one has been held responsible for this genocide because the ICTY is such a joke of a tribunal. Thank you to the organization "Young Croats" which have recently put up billboards in Zagreb asking forgiveness for the crimes committed 21 years ago today. Maybe when the next generation takes control, they can cleanse the country of the Nazi Ustasha filth that is currently infesting Croatia today.
    (Ari Gold, 4 August 2016 10:37)

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