Buildings burn as Greece adopts new measures

Greece as a western project (est 1821) failed miserably. Time to build the new Greece, based on local strengths and kill any bad habits that the west has cultured in Greece (laziness, filth, arrogance, uncivil behavior, etc...)

Time to build a new greece, where 80% of the people now having a voice (e.g. Leonidas) should have their lilly mouths shut.

Democracy is a guarantee for more anarchy and chaos.


GREECE NEEDS TO ABOLISH DEMOCRACY. WE NEED A NEW regime... Military dictatorship would be a wise choice.

ENOUGH WITH THE ANARCHY and the UGLINESS..
We need CENTRAL control,

ITS TIME WE BECOME BALKANS AT LAST....

ITS TIME WE MAKE ATHENS AT LEAST LIKE SOFIA/BULGARIA or BELGRADE/SERBIA...

ENOUGH WITH THE UGLINESS AND THE FILTH.

Is this the organization of milk and honey that Tadic wants Serbia to join?

This is what will happen in Serbia if it joins the EU then becomes bankrupted by orders from Brussels and thieving politicians. Greece needs to exit the EU and give it the middle finger.

Athens is on fire because of decisions made in Berlin. This has been our shared history, but need not be our future. Neutrality is the alternative; Commerce with all, alliance with none. Look at the suffering and realize that this is what waits for Serbia in the EU. The Bankers and politicians make decisions, pensioners and students go hungry, while the young people, soldiers, police and firemen die.

When the Serbs took to the street and chanted "Bolje Rat Nego Pakt, Bolje Grob Nego Rob" (Better war than capitulation, Better the grave than slavery), Winston Churchill saluted us and said that we had found our soul.

Find your soul Serbia, and determine your destiny as a sovereign and independent nation. Commerce with all, alliance with none.

THIS is EXACTLY what will happen in Serbia if we become under the strangle-hold of the EU. Somehow, I think that 99% of Greeks NOW are so sorry that they gave up their own sovereignty for some early, easy cash! Very expensive experiment.....only Germany knew what it was doing.

So why are we trying to get involved in the EU?

Amazing how comments on this topic routinely overlook the fact that Greece went on a huge spending spree on cheap credits that they got by lying on (what was effectively) their loan application.

But ya. it was big, bad Germany's fault that Greece lied and then spent like crazy.

For those who think this was somehow organized by Germany, don't you think German lending institutions would prefer NOT to have a bunch of bad debt on their books now? Don't you think the Germans would prefer NOT to have their currency devalued and unstable? Don't you think German parliamentarians would prefer NOT to have to explain to their electorate why their tax dollars have to be spent because of Greece?

I would like to see Belgrade burning like this. Good job Greeks.

Danilo,

you are right and wrong. Look at the real situation :

1) of course the westerners (its not only germany) knew exactly how much money, where and when they injected into greek economy via various means (KPS, ESPA, MOP, other funds, and of course loans). Do you think Greeks cheated on anyone ?? HA HA, Greeks are too "small" to cheat the big daddies my friend!

2) of course greeks believed the fairy tales that they are the ancient offspring of culture and civilization, and therefore they are entitled to live 10 times more rich and expensive than the uncivilized (lol) and inferior slavs of the balkans.

Do you get the picture now?
Add to this, that the initial injections (oh the irony) started some time around 1990?? When the destruction of yugoslavia was already planned, and the centers of decisions/embassies/etc... were moving from belgrade to athens ??
Still unclear???

bottom line :
A) Yes greeks are totally incompetent even on a balkan scale
B) Yes the west knew A) above and used it to the maximum

Greece was used for another reason as well. They portrayed Greece as the big leader in the balkans, when in fact we are the most disorganized, anarchic and ineffective balkan nation (along with our friends the albanians)
So Greece served as an obstacle to the moral of more civilized balkan nations (Serbs/Bulgarian) who felt that no matter what they do they cannot become "Greece" no matter what.....
(just look at how many european directives were implemented and applied in Serbia/BiH/Bulgaria/HR vs Greece, you will be amazed.... we still cannot prohibit smoking in closed places ..... LOL)

Another byproduct of this was the following (and worse).
Greeks feeling so much superior to any balkanian, thought they can only compare with Norway, UK or i dont know what else, and therefore completely stopped any efforts to improve, since they knew that in the region they we the "leaders".
ALAS!! we were/are/and will be the most backward country in the balkans (with albanians and maybe CG).

I am not going to waste my time answering the Albanian losers on this forum which unlike my Serbian friends cannot see the big picture in the crisis afflicting Greece and the Eurozone.If Greece was the only bad apple in the Euro crisis why do they explain the bailouts in Ireland and Portugal(they are coming for a second one) or the downgrading and austerity in Italy,Spain and France?

Of course Greece has structural problems in the economy,not to mention corruption,which should have been dealt years ago but since the democratic system relied on clientilism and patronage the corrupt politicians were unwilling to yield the knife.

At present what's happening in Greece (and elsewhere) is a fascist coup engineered by the lords of high finance (troika), using the power of money and the threat of massive economic sabotage, rather than the jackboot of old.Anyone that has looked at the detail concerning the bailout conditions will understand that the austerity for the Greek people will be unbearable, they will not achieve growth, as there is a major risk of a deflationary spiral. I believe that Greece is the canary in the mine shaft, much worse is yet to come.Hence the anger and destruction on the streets which I don't condone in any shape or form.

The troika are neo-liberal ideologues of the Austrian School who will not accept reality. That reality is that their imposed policies are deeply undemocratic, undermining growth, creating millions of unemployed, increasing poverty and increasing economic migration.
These very same policies have deflated the economy, made a mockery of social justice and degraded the standard of living for tens of millions for generations to come.

The sooner Greece and the others exit the EMU, abandon the Euro, regain their currency sovereignty and restructure their external obligations to escape the devastation of the troika, the sooner they can begin to rebuild their lives.

Dear Leonidas, pls lets not go back into this vicious circle of who is more greek than who. I have repeatedly stated that my grandpa fought in WWII with Zervas (EDES) against the albanians, so calling me an albanian is a blatant insult. I do not expect of liars and fabricators like your self to refrain from the insults, heck if you had the slightest drop of shame you would not shift the blame on others 24x7.
And please stop "licking" your "sebrian" friends. You have been in Serbia (you said yourself) once and was not impressed by the country.
I, OTOH, am married with a Serb wife, and LOVE EVERY INCH OF THE LAND FROM Bitola to Novi Sad and from Negotin to Banja Luka and beyond. So i know exactly what i am talking about and also am in a position to make comparisons between greeks and the rest of the balkans.
You OTOH ....... well you know that your perception of reality is skewed to the bone...

(pyrros, 13 February 2012, 21:15)

Every blue moon that you post on this forum you seem to have problems not only with me but generally with the Greeks and their country in general.As you postings show you seem to think that Greece is just a fairy tale creation of Western powers with no connection to its history or civilization.I am sure if you visit Skopje Gruevski will make certain that a statue of yours to be erected next to the one of the four lions.
I am also certain that if you visit Thessaloniki and you utter the same nonsense you'll probably have to run for your life.

Since you have such low opinions of the Greeks and since their country is at the bottom of your Balkans list why don't you do them a favour and P...O.. somewhere where you feel comfortable with yourself and your surroundings.

Dear poster, the problem is not EU, but the capacity of Greece to follow the rhythm of EU. I have only one critic for EU. They have to test the capacity of members before they are accepted. Yes, I know that are also geopolitical reasons when they make a decision. I know this was the case of Rumania and Bulgaria, and maybe even for Greece the geopolitical reason and romantic reason (the false believe of Europe that Greece was the cradle of European civilization) was more important than economic one. Now Europe has to deal with most important component, the economic one. I see two solutions:
1. Greece with limited independence for economic decision (this is the proposal of EU).
2. Greece out of EU.
The people of Greece have to decide.
As a neighbor with good intention I prefer the option one.

Leonidas bro, your answers are so iterative, predictable, boring and silly. You act as a broken CD-player just like many Greeks, unfortunately.

I WAS HERE, MAKING COMPARISONS BETWEEN GREECE AND THE BALKANS, MANY YEARS BEFORE THE GREEK CRISIS STARTED!!!!!

If anything else, IF ONE GREEK WAS ABLE TO CONTRIBUTE TO A MORE VIABLE GREEK SOCIETY THAT WOULD BE THE ONE WHO THINKS-CARES-ACTS-DESIGNS-MANUFACTURES and not the one who seats all day in forums and accuse the bad imperialist west (without which there would be not a single mercedes-bmw in greece not to talk about roads, kindergardens and almost EVERYTHING we have today). Don't get me wrong (i have stated that before, but some people seem to have the memory of the mosquito, so i repeat), i wish Greece NEVER jumped on that western wagon, where only illusions and deceptions were cultured, and no viable work mentality with sustainable results. I just mention the above to show that all your pro-greek arguments are actually pro-west in effect. This is paranoid, if you take a minute to think about it. (do you ever think)?

So instead, of putting your ultra-gigantic ego aside for a moment, and think about the substance of the problems, you just continue your boring "operation" or should i say "malfunction" of the broken CD-player.

You said, i dont find many things promising in greece (or smth along the lines). Here you are correct, that is true, apart from Crete, i do not see any other viable region in Greece.

PS
lol, about me and gruevksi LMAO, but i gotta inform you that gruevski's philosophy is not so pro-slav, so once again, you seem uninformed, repetitive and .... boring.

(pyrros, 14 February 2012, 05:57

To start with don't call me brother cos I am not your brother.If there is someone who suffers from extreme paranoia it is you who thinks that the Balkans are somehow some sort of an advanced region compared to Greece.If that were the case you wouldn't have 2.5 million Romanians,over a million Bulgarians and hundreds of thousands of other people from the rest of the Balkan countries leaving their countries for greener pastures.Why do you think Romania and Bulgaria want to join Schengen?Is it because of national pride or is it because they want open borders so they can shift all their unemployed to Western countries?Did you know that most of your cherished Balkan countries just survive on workers remittances from abroad?


My pro-Greek positions are not based on a "gigantic ego" as you call it but on a position that any sane person will take-that is supporting the land I and my ancestors were born thick and thin.To say that by supporting my country I support the West is just insane and doesn't need further elaborating.

Bottom line is since you hate virtually everything about Greece you should do the decent thing leave the country and let others who don't share your views to pick up the pieces.But cowards like yourself would rather continue their internet rants against the country that feeds them than do the decent thing.

Dear Leonidas, in my case it is rather the opposite. I feed Greece (for many years) and not vice versa, since i pay taxes (all of them) and never ever used any of the (invisible) social services (such as medical services - IKA) of your super Greece.
As far as calling you "bro", i consider as brothers all human beings, unless you classify yourself along the snakes,lizards and other such serpents.

PS
You are not courageous, lets be real. You are just not qualified to work abroad as so many young greeks have done in the last year. LOL

You are not courageous, lets be real. You are just not qualified to work abroad as so many young greeks have done in the last year. LOL
(pyrros, 14 February 2012, 11:59)

As a matter of fact I am fortunate to be well qualified and earn a good living in various parts of the world that I chose to live.

Greece as a western project (est 1821) failed miserably. Time to build the new Greece, based on local strengths and kill any bad habits that the west has cultured in Greece (laziness, filth, arrogance, uncivil behavior, etc...)

Time to build a new greece, where 80% of the people now having a voice (e.g. Leonidas) should have their lilly mouths shut.

Democracy is a guarantee for more anarchy and chaos.


GREECE NEEDS TO ABOLISH DEMOCRACY. WE NEED A NEW regime... Military dictatorship would be a wise choice.

ENOUGH WITH THE ANARCHY and the UGLINESS..
We need CENTRAL control,

ITS TIME WE BECOME BALKANS AT LAST....

ITS TIME WE MAKE ATHENS AT LEAST LIKE SOFIA/BULGARIA or BELGRADE/SERBIA...

ENOUGH WITH THE UGLINESS AND THE FILTH.

Is this the organization of milk and honey that Tadic wants Serbia to join?

This is what will happen in Serbia if it joins the EU then becomes bankrupted by orders from Brussels and thieving politicians. Greece needs to exit the EU and give it the middle finger.

Athens is on fire because of decisions made in Berlin. This has been our shared history, but need not be our future. Neutrality is the alternative; Commerce with all, alliance with none. Look at the suffering and realize that this is what waits for Serbia in the EU. The Bankers and politicians make decisions, pensioners and students go hungry, while the young people, soldiers, police and firemen die.

When the Serbs took to the street and chanted "Bolje Rat Nego Pakt, Bolje Grob Nego Rob" (Better war than capitulation, Better the grave than slavery), Winston Churchill saluted us and said that we had found our soul.

Find your soul Serbia, and determine your destiny as a sovereign and independent nation. Commerce with all, alliance with none.

THIS is EXACTLY what will happen in Serbia if we become under the strangle-hold of the EU. Somehow, I think that 99% of Greeks NOW are so sorry that they gave up their own sovereignty for some early, easy cash! Very expensive experiment.....only Germany knew what it was doing.

So why are we trying to get involved in the EU?

Amazing how comments on this topic routinely overlook the fact that Greece went on a huge spending spree on cheap credits that they got by lying on (what was effectively) their loan application.

But ya. it was big, bad Germany's fault that Greece lied and then spent like crazy.

For those who think this was somehow organized by Germany, don't you think German lending institutions would prefer NOT to have a bunch of bad debt on their books now? Don't you think the Germans would prefer NOT to have their currency devalued and unstable? Don't you think German parliamentarians would prefer NOT to have to explain to their electorate why their tax dollars have to be spent because of Greece?

I would like to see Belgrade burning like this. Good job Greeks.

Danilo,

you are right and wrong. Look at the real situation :

1) of course the westerners (its not only germany) knew exactly how much money, where and when they injected into greek economy via various means (KPS, ESPA, MOP, other funds, and of course loans). Do you think Greeks cheated on anyone ?? HA HA, Greeks are too "small" to cheat the big daddies my friend!

2) of course greeks believed the fairy tales that they are the ancient offspring of culture and civilization, and therefore they are entitled to live 10 times more rich and expensive than the uncivilized (lol) and inferior slavs of the balkans.

Do you get the picture now?
Add to this, that the initial injections (oh the irony) started some time around 1990?? When the destruction of yugoslavia was already planned, and the centers of decisions/embassies/etc... were moving from belgrade to athens ??
Still unclear???

bottom line :
A) Yes greeks are totally incompetent even on a balkan scale
B) Yes the west knew A) above and used it to the maximum

Greece was used for another reason as well. They portrayed Greece as the big leader in the balkans, when in fact we are the most disorganized, anarchic and ineffective balkan nation (along with our friends the albanians)
So Greece served as an obstacle to the moral of more civilized balkan nations (Serbs/Bulgarian) who felt that no matter what they do they cannot become "Greece" no matter what.....
(just look at how many european directives were implemented and applied in Serbia/BiH/Bulgaria/HR vs Greece, you will be amazed.... we still cannot prohibit smoking in closed places ..... LOL)

Another byproduct of this was the following (and worse).
Greeks feeling so much superior to any balkanian, thought they can only compare with Norway, UK or i dont know what else, and therefore completely stopped any efforts to improve, since they knew that in the region they we the "leaders".
ALAS!! we were/are/and will be the most backward country in the balkans (with albanians and maybe CG).

I am not going to waste my time answering the Albanian losers on this forum which unlike my Serbian friends cannot see the big picture in the crisis afflicting Greece and the Eurozone.If Greece was the only bad apple in the Euro crisis why do they explain the bailouts in Ireland and Portugal(they are coming for a second one) or the downgrading and austerity in Italy,Spain and France?

Of course Greece has structural problems in the economy,not to mention corruption,which should have been dealt years ago but since the democratic system relied on clientilism and patronage the corrupt politicians were unwilling to yield the knife.

At present what's happening in Greece (and elsewhere) is a fascist coup engineered by the lords of high finance (troika), using the power of money and the threat of massive economic sabotage, rather than the jackboot of old.Anyone that has looked at the detail concerning the bailout conditions will understand that the austerity for the Greek people will be unbearable, they will not achieve growth, as there is a major risk of a deflationary spiral. I believe that Greece is the canary in the mine shaft, much worse is yet to come.Hence the anger and destruction on the streets which I don't condone in any shape or form.

The troika are neo-liberal ideologues of the Austrian School who will not accept reality. That reality is that their imposed policies are deeply undemocratic, undermining growth, creating millions of unemployed, increasing poverty and increasing economic migration.
These very same policies have deflated the economy, made a mockery of social justice and degraded the standard of living for tens of millions for generations to come.

The sooner Greece and the others exit the EMU, abandon the Euro, regain their currency sovereignty and restructure their external obligations to escape the devastation of the troika, the sooner they can begin to rebuild their lives.

Dear Leonidas, pls lets not go back into this vicious circle of who is more greek than who. I have repeatedly stated that my grandpa fought in WWII with Zervas (EDES) against the albanians, so calling me an albanian is a blatant insult. I do not expect of liars and fabricators like your self to refrain from the insults, heck if you had the slightest drop of shame you would not shift the blame on others 24x7.
And please stop "licking" your "sebrian" friends. You have been in Serbia (you said yourself) once and was not impressed by the country.
I, OTOH, am married with a Serb wife, and LOVE EVERY INCH OF THE LAND FROM Bitola to Novi Sad and from Negotin to Banja Luka and beyond. So i know exactly what i am talking about and also am in a position to make comparisons between greeks and the rest of the balkans.
You OTOH ....... well you know that your perception of reality is skewed to the bone...

(pyrros, 13 February 2012, 21:15)

Every blue moon that you post on this forum you seem to have problems not only with me but generally with the Greeks and their country in general.As you postings show you seem to think that Greece is just a fairy tale creation of Western powers with no connection to its history or civilization.I am sure if you visit Skopje Gruevski will make certain that a statue of yours to be erected next to the one of the four lions.
I am also certain that if you visit Thessaloniki and you utter the same nonsense you'll probably have to run for your life.

Since you have such low opinions of the Greeks and since their country is at the bottom of your Balkans list why don't you do them a favour and P...O.. somewhere where you feel comfortable with yourself and your surroundings.

Dear poster, the problem is not EU, but the capacity of Greece to follow the rhythm of EU. I have only one critic for EU. They have to test the capacity of members before they are accepted. Yes, I know that are also geopolitical reasons when they make a decision. I know this was the case of Rumania and Bulgaria, and maybe even for Greece the geopolitical reason and romantic reason (the false believe of Europe that Greece was the cradle of European civilization) was more important than economic one. Now Europe has to deal with most important component, the economic one. I see two solutions:
1. Greece with limited independence for economic decision (this is the proposal of EU).
2. Greece out of EU.
The people of Greece have to decide.
As a neighbor with good intention I prefer the option one.

Leonidas bro, your answers are so iterative, predictable, boring and silly. You act as a broken CD-player just like many Greeks, unfortunately.

I WAS HERE, MAKING COMPARISONS BETWEEN GREECE AND THE BALKANS, MANY YEARS BEFORE THE GREEK CRISIS STARTED!!!!!

If anything else, IF ONE GREEK WAS ABLE TO CONTRIBUTE TO A MORE VIABLE GREEK SOCIETY THAT WOULD BE THE ONE WHO THINKS-CARES-ACTS-DESIGNS-MANUFACTURES and not the one who seats all day in forums and accuse the bad imperialist west (without which there would be not a single mercedes-bmw in greece not to talk about roads, kindergardens and almost EVERYTHING we have today). Don't get me wrong (i have stated that before, but some people seem to have the memory of the mosquito, so i repeat), i wish Greece NEVER jumped on that western wagon, where only illusions and deceptions were cultured, and no viable work mentality with sustainable results. I just mention the above to show that all your pro-greek arguments are actually pro-west in effect. This is paranoid, if you take a minute to think about it. (do you ever think)?

So instead, of putting your ultra-gigantic ego aside for a moment, and think about the substance of the problems, you just continue your boring "operation" or should i say "malfunction" of the broken CD-player.

You said, i dont find many things promising in greece (or smth along the lines). Here you are correct, that is true, apart from Crete, i do not see any other viable region in Greece.

PS
lol, about me and gruevksi LMAO, but i gotta inform you that gruevski's philosophy is not so pro-slav, so once again, you seem uninformed, repetitive and .... boring.

(pyrros, 14 February 2012, 05:57

To start with don't call me brother cos I am not your brother.If there is someone who suffers from extreme paranoia it is you who thinks that the Balkans are somehow some sort of an advanced region compared to Greece.If that were the case you wouldn't have 2.5 million Romanians,over a million Bulgarians and hundreds of thousands of other people from the rest of the Balkan countries leaving their countries for greener pastures.Why do you think Romania and Bulgaria want to join Schengen?Is it because of national pride or is it because they want open borders so they can shift all their unemployed to Western countries?Did you know that most of your cherished Balkan countries just survive on workers remittances from abroad?


My pro-Greek positions are not based on a "gigantic ego" as you call it but on a position that any sane person will take-that is supporting the land I and my ancestors were born thick and thin.To say that by supporting my country I support the West is just insane and doesn't need further elaborating.

Bottom line is since you hate virtually everything about Greece you should do the decent thing leave the country and let others who don't share your views to pick up the pieces.But cowards like yourself would rather continue their internet rants against the country that feeds them than do the decent thing.

Dear Leonidas, in my case it is rather the opposite. I feed Greece (for many years) and not vice versa, since i pay taxes (all of them) and never ever used any of the (invisible) social services (such as medical services - IKA) of your super Greece.
As far as calling you "bro", i consider as brothers all human beings, unless you classify yourself along the snakes,lizards and other such serpents.

PS
You are not courageous, lets be real. You are just not qualified to work abroad as so many young greeks have done in the last year. LOL

You are not courageous, lets be real. You are just not qualified to work abroad as so many young greeks have done in the last year. LOL
(pyrros, 14 February 2012, 11:59)

As a matter of fact I am fortunate to be well qualified and earn a good living in various parts of the world that I chose to live.