EP rapporteur: Citizens deprived of legal rights

Geez, how do we ban this guy. I, for one, and sick of his homely face, and his oh so democratic EU views. How about helping Serbs in N. KiM from Albanian agression?

"According to the EP rapporteur, there is no such moment when a country hoping to join the EU is not capable of extending a guarantee of human rights to its citizens."

-- That may very well be true, but another guarantee a state is required to give is the right to security, and if the state could not guarantee the security of the Parade organizers or, more likely, work earlier to limit the threats of these so-called "patriots" to retaliate, then it was a wise, albeit unfortunate, decision by the authorities to cancel everything and avoid another riot. In the end, it seems to me the decision was what looked worse in the papers: cancelling a Pride Parade or allowing it to go forward and dealing with the rioting, looting, and, God forbid, physical violence against people. And if 100 people marching were to be escorted by 200 police to protect them from 300 hooligans, that eventually leaves damages of 400,000 euros, the whole act is counterproductive. In the end, the opinions or ordinary citizens who might not have cared one way or the other for the Parade but didn't want to hooligan chaos that followed was more important than what a few international NGOs think.

We also have to put this into the larger context of public opinion against international pressure on Serbia in other aspects. The stalemate in Kosovo aside (which certainly does NOT help the situation), perceptions among ordinary folks that they must alter their daily activities to please a bunch of eurocrats in Brussels in thinking Serbia is a civilized country is certainly against these measures: smoking bans, increased costs of goods, banning alcohol at kiosks after a certain time, etc. The Pride Parade is unfortunately another example. Pride parades happen in stable environments. In more peaceful times, a Pride Parade is something that can take place amid widescale public toleration coupled with a heavy dosage of indifference; and that's the thing people tend to overlook. Tolerating something doesn't mean accepting it as a value, it's just putting up with it. The ordinary Serb wouldn't care much about a Pride Parade, wouldn't march in it, but certainly wouldn't do anything to prevent the organizers from having it. In this case, the blame for cancelling the whole thing is largely, if not exclusively, the fault of the local government in failing to make earlier plans to demobilize Obraz from counter-organizing. Additional statements from officials like the current Patriarch (and Pavle would never have been as [unfortunately] outspoken as Irinej) are equally not helpful. Therefore, in order to hold a parade next year, and make sure it goes peacefully, necessary steps need to be taken months in advance to limit the mobility and outreach of those groups that would pro-actively do harm to their fellow citizens. The public may not care that much about Belgrade’s LGBT community, but they would certainly be in favor of Dacic going after Obraz and much of the Partisan/Red Star goon gangs that make nuisances of themselves everywhere they go.

The true sign of a stable consolidated democracy is not holding Gay Pride Parades amid social protest. The true sign is when a parade is held and the overwhelming majority of ordinary citizens go on with their lives right alongside the parade, tolerating its organization, but indifferent to its objectives.

I'd say that citizens have been respected their legal right not to be forced to accept what the vast majority of them feels as offensive.

Eurocrats should wash their mouths before talking about civil rights.

"I'd say that citizens have been respected their legal right not to be forced to accept what the vast majority of them feels as offensive. "
(euro-shame, 1 October 2011 22:25)

Nobody is forced to accept anything, but normal people should tolerate other opinions, otherwise you have the situation like in islamist intolerant countries where public moral guards tell people what to do, what do wear and how to behave.

Slovenian...I rest my case.

Strangely enough, Mr. Kacin did not mention the deprivation of other citizens who are not able to participate in their gatherings. Why not mention parents with children, aren't children the FUTURE of a country?

the foundation of a democracy is the rule of majority provided the minorities are tolerated, not to mention freedom of speech...the funny point is that the parade is canceled due to 'national security' reasons...absurd, if the state can not provide sequrity for a protest of less than hundred what happens if more than 300 k protesters participate....

Well it always nice to hear the truth, but to Serbs that think joining the EU will begin to solve their economic problems you are badly advised and misled. The EU of October 2011 is not the EU of 2000 and it will be even more different in 2012 as the financial crises hit the world again and please don’t be deluded it will hit again.
What does Serbia have to gain by appeasing the EU? The answer is very little. In fact it has a tremendous amount to lose simply by having to abandon RS then recognizing Kosovo as an independent state then Belgrade will have to agree to Vojvodina breaking away together with places like Sandjak being granted complete autonomy and the list goes on and on, but even with all these concessions Serbia will never be allowed in because the Serbs have made the west look like fools.
Trade is always touted as a huge plus for Serbia joining the EU. One of the best lies ever told, just ask the Hungarians or Poles or Romanians – it’s a means of the established EU dumping its produce into your market at a subsidized price where even Serbian farmers cannot compete even though the average wage is 350 Euros per month (actual is more line 250).
Increase in employment opportunities; this can also be placed under the BS listing. On Friday the Hungarian Government released its unemployment figures – 1 in 5 are unemployed. The real figure is 2 in 5 are unemployed. I use Hungary as an example because their statistics are fresh, but the other eastern European members are just as bad or worse.
Investment will increase – also crap. Capitalism will trade with Satan if there is a profit in the air and being part of the EU does not increase Serbia’s chances of getting more investment. In fact it’s getting a lot now even without the EU. Capitalism wants cheap well educated labour not countries that are EU members.
If Serbs in Serbia want to succeed then follow the Chinese model – the Russians are doing just that and look at Cameron kissing Putin’s backside in Moscow recently looking for investment opportunities for British companies.
The only reason the EU is placing Kosovo as a condition is to save face. It’s simply a dying western civilization trying to justify an action. At the moment I am in Sydney, Australia on leave and last night I watched 60 minutes and there was segment on Srebrenica. I was laughing so hard at the BS and nonsense coming from the program and I said to my family these Australian journalists could not find their backsides if they had a road map and a flashlight to report such a thing. The program was a justification to imprison General Mladic because this man is smarter than the entire US military put together.

All of you that suport this sinful life style shuold be asheimd of this position that are pushing contries for such scandals[gay parades]time will come soon when your conches will open up or never will beacuse your life is so full of sin stop doing dhat is contrary to Gods law

It's always interesting to get the view from Australia.

"Belgrade will have to agree to Vojvodina breaking away"

Why is it that Australian Serbs think that there's a danger of Vojvodina separating, when there's no empirical evidence to suggest that this is happening. Vojvodina is 70% Serbian. Hungarians are entitled to an EU passport, so why would they bother with such a thing?

The answer is, that they WANT it to be true. It is their impotent revenge fantasy on a Serbia that doesn't fit the notions of Serbia that they've carefully cultivated in church basements all over the world..

I say to you people: Don't hate Serbia. It might not fit your ideas of how Serbia should be, but Serbia is a real place with real people, not some wax museum that exists for the sole pleasure of entertaining your sentimentality.

If you disagree, then give me a shred of evidence or maybe the tiniest explanation why you think there's a danger of Vojvodina (a region comprised mostly of Serbs) separating from Serbia, because everyone who mentions this, mentions it as though it's an obvious fact when, to me, I don't see it at all.

Danilo you can just do some light research about the history of Vojvodina and changes to its autonomy. You might also identify similarities between Vojvodina and Kosovo in the past.

I personally don't think Vojvodina is going anywhere but I do think that it must be monitored and kept close to Belgrade.

so your answer to "is there any chance that Vojvodina separates" is "read history". Classic non-nonsense response to such a question- firstly with assuming that I haven't.

I ask again. Can anyone provide me with the tiniest shred of evidence that there's any reason to believe that anyone is agitating for the independence of Vojvodina?

All of you that suport this sinful life style shuold be asheimd of this position that are pushing contries for such scandals[gay parades]time will come soon when your conches will open up or never will beacuse your life is so full of sin stop doing dhat is contrary to Gods law

I'd say that citizens have been respected their legal right not to be forced to accept what the vast majority of them feels as offensive.

Eurocrats should wash their mouths before talking about civil rights.

Well it always nice to hear the truth, but to Serbs that think joining the EU will begin to solve their economic problems you are badly advised and misled. The EU of October 2011 is not the EU of 2000 and it will be even more different in 2012 as the financial crises hit the world again and please don’t be deluded it will hit again.
What does Serbia have to gain by appeasing the EU? The answer is very little. In fact it has a tremendous amount to lose simply by having to abandon RS then recognizing Kosovo as an independent state then Belgrade will have to agree to Vojvodina breaking away together with places like Sandjak being granted complete autonomy and the list goes on and on, but even with all these concessions Serbia will never be allowed in because the Serbs have made the west look like fools.
Trade is always touted as a huge plus for Serbia joining the EU. One of the best lies ever told, just ask the Hungarians or Poles or Romanians – it’s a means of the established EU dumping its produce into your market at a subsidized price where even Serbian farmers cannot compete even though the average wage is 350 Euros per month (actual is more line 250).
Increase in employment opportunities; this can also be placed under the BS listing. On Friday the Hungarian Government released its unemployment figures – 1 in 5 are unemployed. The real figure is 2 in 5 are unemployed. I use Hungary as an example because their statistics are fresh, but the other eastern European members are just as bad or worse.
Investment will increase – also crap. Capitalism will trade with Satan if there is a profit in the air and being part of the EU does not increase Serbia’s chances of getting more investment. In fact it’s getting a lot now even without the EU. Capitalism wants cheap well educated labour not countries that are EU members.
If Serbs in Serbia want to succeed then follow the Chinese model – the Russians are doing just that and look at Cameron kissing Putin’s backside in Moscow recently looking for investment opportunities for British companies.
The only reason the EU is placing Kosovo as a condition is to save face. It’s simply a dying western civilization trying to justify an action. At the moment I am in Sydney, Australia on leave and last night I watched 60 minutes and there was segment on Srebrenica. I was laughing so hard at the BS and nonsense coming from the program and I said to my family these Australian journalists could not find their backsides if they had a road map and a flashlight to report such a thing. The program was a justification to imprison General Mladic because this man is smarter than the entire US military put together.

Slovenian...I rest my case.

Geez, how do we ban this guy. I, for one, and sick of his homely face, and his oh so democratic EU views. How about helping Serbs in N. KiM from Albanian agression?

Strangely enough, Mr. Kacin did not mention the deprivation of other citizens who are not able to participate in their gatherings. Why not mention parents with children, aren't children the FUTURE of a country?

"According to the EP rapporteur, there is no such moment when a country hoping to join the EU is not capable of extending a guarantee of human rights to its citizens."

-- That may very well be true, but another guarantee a state is required to give is the right to security, and if the state could not guarantee the security of the Parade organizers or, more likely, work earlier to limit the threats of these so-called "patriots" to retaliate, then it was a wise, albeit unfortunate, decision by the authorities to cancel everything and avoid another riot. In the end, it seems to me the decision was what looked worse in the papers: cancelling a Pride Parade or allowing it to go forward and dealing with the rioting, looting, and, God forbid, physical violence against people. And if 100 people marching were to be escorted by 200 police to protect them from 300 hooligans, that eventually leaves damages of 400,000 euros, the whole act is counterproductive. In the end, the opinions or ordinary citizens who might not have cared one way or the other for the Parade but didn't want to hooligan chaos that followed was more important than what a few international NGOs think.

We also have to put this into the larger context of public opinion against international pressure on Serbia in other aspects. The stalemate in Kosovo aside (which certainly does NOT help the situation), perceptions among ordinary folks that they must alter their daily activities to please a bunch of eurocrats in Brussels in thinking Serbia is a civilized country is certainly against these measures: smoking bans, increased costs of goods, banning alcohol at kiosks after a certain time, etc. The Pride Parade is unfortunately another example. Pride parades happen in stable environments. In more peaceful times, a Pride Parade is something that can take place amid widescale public toleration coupled with a heavy dosage of indifference; and that's the thing people tend to overlook. Tolerating something doesn't mean accepting it as a value, it's just putting up with it. The ordinary Serb wouldn't care much about a Pride Parade, wouldn't march in it, but certainly wouldn't do anything to prevent the organizers from having it. In this case, the blame for cancelling the whole thing is largely, if not exclusively, the fault of the local government in failing to make earlier plans to demobilize Obraz from counter-organizing. Additional statements from officials like the current Patriarch (and Pavle would never have been as [unfortunately] outspoken as Irinej) are equally not helpful. Therefore, in order to hold a parade next year, and make sure it goes peacefully, necessary steps need to be taken months in advance to limit the mobility and outreach of those groups that would pro-actively do harm to their fellow citizens. The public may not care that much about Belgrade’s LGBT community, but they would certainly be in favor of Dacic going after Obraz and much of the Partisan/Red Star goon gangs that make nuisances of themselves everywhere they go.

The true sign of a stable consolidated democracy is not holding Gay Pride Parades amid social protest. The true sign is when a parade is held and the overwhelming majority of ordinary citizens go on with their lives right alongside the parade, tolerating its organization, but indifferent to its objectives.

"I'd say that citizens have been respected their legal right not to be forced to accept what the vast majority of them feels as offensive. "
(euro-shame, 1 October 2011 22:25)

Nobody is forced to accept anything, but normal people should tolerate other opinions, otherwise you have the situation like in islamist intolerant countries where public moral guards tell people what to do, what do wear and how to behave.

the foundation of a democracy is the rule of majority provided the minorities are tolerated, not to mention freedom of speech...the funny point is that the parade is canceled due to 'national security' reasons...absurd, if the state can not provide sequrity for a protest of less than hundred what happens if more than 300 k protesters participate....

It's always interesting to get the view from Australia.

"Belgrade will have to agree to Vojvodina breaking away"

Why is it that Australian Serbs think that there's a danger of Vojvodina separating, when there's no empirical evidence to suggest that this is happening. Vojvodina is 70% Serbian. Hungarians are entitled to an EU passport, so why would they bother with such a thing?

The answer is, that they WANT it to be true. It is their impotent revenge fantasy on a Serbia that doesn't fit the notions of Serbia that they've carefully cultivated in church basements all over the world..

I say to you people: Don't hate Serbia. It might not fit your ideas of how Serbia should be, but Serbia is a real place with real people, not some wax museum that exists for the sole pleasure of entertaining your sentimentality.

If you disagree, then give me a shred of evidence or maybe the tiniest explanation why you think there's a danger of Vojvodina (a region comprised mostly of Serbs) separating from Serbia, because everyone who mentions this, mentions it as though it's an obvious fact when, to me, I don't see it at all.

Danilo you can just do some light research about the history of Vojvodina and changes to its autonomy. You might also identify similarities between Vojvodina and Kosovo in the past.

I personally don't think Vojvodina is going anywhere but I do think that it must be monitored and kept close to Belgrade.

so your answer to "is there any chance that Vojvodina separates" is "read history". Classic non-nonsense response to such a question- firstly with assuming that I haven't.

I ask again. Can anyone provide me with the tiniest shred of evidence that there's any reason to believe that anyone is agitating for the independence of Vojvodina?