29

Monday, 01.12.2008.

15:13

Kosovo: Protests announced for Tuesday

Several Kosovo Albanian NGOs have announced protests in Priština for tomorrow, against the deployment of EULEX under a UN plan.

Izvor: B92

Kosovo: Protests announced for Tuesday IMAGE SOURCE
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29 Komentari

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Jovan

pre 17 godina

"By allowing the EU mission into Kosovo, you have failed my friends. After all, Jovan was right - you are being duped!
(ZK, 1 December 2008 22:37)"

thanks for the flowers, ZK.

but you don´t have to be Houdini to figure that out.

as for those protesters: as long as they protest in down-town Priština, in a civilized way, I am fine with that - since then they do not destroy serbian cultural heritage and proof of serbian presence for more than thousand years.

Mr Belvedere

pre 17 godina

It is the right of each Citizen to protest for something are worried about,Kosovars has this right too.
After the decision was made of Eulex deployment in Kosovo,my gess was Serbs are going to protest,but I was wrong.
Peace for Kosovo and Kosovars.
Thank you B92.

Milan

pre 17 godina

Brother Serbs

I don't see what you are getting all excited about. We all know that nothing can come of this independence and its all a sham. The Albanians can sing,protest and wave flags all they want but that is just a fantasy that people will get tired of. This is a difficult situation for our people in Kosovo and people like Nikola saying that you are safe because you are in the southern province of Serbia is negligent. Our people are more at risk now then ever.

bganon

pre 17 godina

miri by any standard Serbia does not have an ultra nationalist government. Yes the Kosovo policy is firm, but on a host of other issues the position is moderate. Ultra nationalism entails warmongering, hateful speech, right wing ideology etc. This government defends its interests no differently to other countries.

Kosovo government is led by liberals??? I don't know how you can say that with a straight face. Do some of them even know what liberalism is? Are some of them more comfortable on the battlefield, or doing shady deals behind the scenes?

They are not too soft, they are too corrupt, looking for personal or political gain and bending to whichever policy will achieve that.

Holding a tougher stance than supporting independence, which all Kosovo Albanians support? (And then guess what, pretending that Kosovo independence IS the 'compromise' option)

We don't need more nationalism and demands for ethnic rights. We need more inclusive ideas that represent a wider cross section of society.

I'm just not used to seeing NGO's leading national projects. If the Kosovo government was supporting Kosovo remaining inside Serbia I would understand the position of NGO's and students, but in this situation, well I just don't think that NGO's and students should follow a nationalist, largely right wing agenda.

Ataman

pre 17 godina

ethnic separation is an impossible and in my opinion racist 19th century ideal.
(roberto, 1 December 2008 21:33)

Yes, indeed. What do you think about separation based not even on ethnics, but on PRESUMED religion, like Muslims (speaking South-Slavic ijekavian) versus Catholics (speaking South-Slavic ijekavian) versus Orthodoxes (speaking South-Slavic ijekavian).

But: Orthodoxes speaking ekavijan are considered the same as Orthodoxes speaking ijekavian if they live in the north ("Serbs"). However, not in south ("Montenegrins").

What an insanity. Next time they should divide themself on the principe, who does begin to eat the egg on the top and who on the bottom side.

-------------------------

democratic pluralism really does work
(roberto, 1 December 2008 21:33)

Did not in some cases like Ukraine (democratic crook versus pro-Russian crook) or Sakartvelo/Georgia (here Americans can proudly say: "he is son of a b**ch, but he is our son of a b**ch"). Some democratic pluralists became not-so democratic and not-so pluralists (Saddam). And some as it turned out had a different agenda than democracy from the begin (Taliban). I tend to trust very little American "experts" on foreign policy. They seem to have way to "constructive" ideas, what that "democracy" really is.

And since USA is a rather large country with overwhelming majority focused on domestic issues, such "constructive" ideas in foreign policy can go long way before the need of change will become apparent. In the meantime the possibility of lobbying and corruption could be endless.

Correct?

-------------------------

but it is incredibly hard if not impossible in the midst of demogogues and almost daily hate-filled harangues.
(roberto, 1 December 2008 21:33)

I really miss where the hate really is. Unlike what you may think. But please look a bit outside of ex-Yugoslavia, in the north. And consider to confront with issue of gangs like "Magyar Gárda" or "Pannon Nemzeti Gárda". Contact American Embassy in BP, ask them, how big is the anti-semitism and the anti-American sentiment. Not that Russians would fare any better than Jews or Americans. There nothing even close on Balkan Peninsula to that rampage of open nazism. As someone correctly wrote: "in a society, what for middle class does not exist - is doomed to die out". At this moment, it's rather a chic to be a nazi right now for the middle class or at least buy a "Greater Hungary" sticker and attach it to the rear window. Never mind, such car can't be driven in, say "non-existent-on-the-map" Croatia. Serbia is lucky because it would lose only 1/4th of the territory - unlike Croatia or Slovakia (both 100%). I bet, it's a very fancy feeling to drive such car in, say, Rijeka. Never start a vacation on Adria without a sticker displaying the white-red checkered flag being in the background, under Hungarian crown and Croatia non-existing on the map:

http://tinyurl.com/5kwa5v

As for the official politics... the (in)famous viktor orbán (leader of the opposition, likely PM within 2 years) - here is a picture of his car:

http://tinyurl.com/5paqjz

Notice the form of the country sticker! This demagogue with the nickname "mini-duce" has extreme likely chances to become the PM of Hungary AGAIN. He has a toothless and amateurish Socialist party against him. He may even secure an absolute majority.

Roberto, what do you think about it? "Enjoy" the variety of these stickers :(

http://tinyurl.com/59vlen

No doubt, the "king" of all is this super-idiot and I just don't get the message he wants to say. Curious, do you notice, why?

http://www.napjaim.hu/wp-content/yugo.jpg

Dardania

pre 17 godina

>>>>>>> Radmila Trajković said that Kosovo Albanians "will not dare" to cause problems in the deployment of EULEX.

Define 'problems'. EU is not there to work against 90+% of people. Albanians will oppose and have said that they will oppose a dual system, the 6 points are not mandatory nor specific. Make sure Serbs don't 'cause any problems' once EU enforces one law, one system of justice.

ZK

pre 17 godina

Here is a little reminder of Hillary Clinton's foreign policy experience. Something to do with landing under sniper fire in Tuzla. I wonder how long she will last as secretary of state with such faulty memory? This is going to be fun!

Check http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VfjJi2qjR8

ZK

pre 17 godina

To my Albanian friends. It looks like you are losing favour with your protectors. I understand that you like to throw around figures, like 3/5 Permanent UNSC members and 7/7 G7 members having recognised Kosovo but you have to face reality sooner or later. 5/5 permanent UNSC members have voted for the functional partition of Kosovo while the G7 is history. We now have the G20 with more members supporting Serbia than not.

You should realise by now that the tide is against you with a multi-polar world changing rapidly. Serbia continues to gather strength while the Albanian representatives are only interested in saving their U$$'s.

By allowing the EU mission into Kosovo, you have failed my friends. After all, Jovan was right - you are being duped!

luciano

pre 17 godina

Here comes the new boss(EULEX)same as the old boss(UNMIK).As long as Spain exists it will never recognize Kosovo as anything more than a province of Serbia and therefore Kosovo's only route to the EU will be as a province of Serbia which is economically 50 years ahead of Kosovo not to mention the 100 year difference in cultural development(no kanun in Belgrade).In the next 20 years China is going to be the world's superpower and in a position to dictate to the US(At present the US in indebted to China to the tunes of trillions of dollars and the debt is growing even more every day).The EU as a whole will never unanimously recognize Kosovo so legally it can only be but status neutral regardless of the ramblings of snakes and turtles in Pristina.For now the best thing for the EU to do is station Spanish,Romanian,Greek,Cypriot personnel in Serb majority areas along with troops to prevent what is sure to be upcoming criminal assaults by the KLA upon those areas.Germans are already realizing that the concept of trying to establish law and order in Albanian areas of Kosovo is a ridiculous undertaking as long as you have criminals constituting its government.Good luck to the EU protectorate of the Serbian province of Kosovo.

Tesla

pre 17 godina

"Thaci underscored that the strategic goal of Kosovo - accession in Euro-Atlantic integrations – "may not be achieved if corruption and organized crime are allowed to be established".

The snake should worry about solving corruption in his own part of Kosovo, the true source of crime, before accuses the Serb areas.

Ataman (from BG)

pre 17 godina

it's not our fualt Serbian women dont like giving birth.
(Pejoni, 1 December 2008 18:22)

It's a bumerang. A smart Serbian government could fight you with your own weapon easily - and you will even like it. No joke. With many kids you will need a lot of things to make your family happy. If I am Serbian government, I would try to target you directly to buy products for your family in Serbia you cannot buy otherwise or only much more expensive. Let's begin with cars. With smart marketing and pricing the difference could be well over 5000-7000 Euro (sell a new 7-seater car for 12000 Euro instead of 22000 Euro). I made it by myself for our family, so it's not impossible.

Besides happy Albanian customers, there would be many people happy in Serbia Proper who are involved and it creates many jobs.

Ron

pre 17 godina

The deal is: EU = UN + six points plan.

Dear Albanians,

You are NOT in charge of Kosovo. The UN is. Your head of state is a Dutchman.

You are not an independent state. You must do what the UN deceides.

You may protest against that. No problem. But hey, if you want the UN/EU to leave ... you forgot who saved you in 1999?

miri

pre 17 godina

Whereas in Serbia NGO's take a firm anti nationalist position, those in Kosovo are leading the charge for nationalism.
...........
(bganon, 1 December 2008 17:38)

And that should mean one thing!
Serbia still has a(n) (ultra) nationalist government in ruling whose radical decision is ruining the life of its people and needs to be told by its country's NGOs. On the contrary Kosova has a too soft and liberal government that needs to be reminded by its country's NGOs to hold a tougher stance.
But this is what we have been saying all along!

Any idea for compromise, anyone?

Nikola

pre 17 godina

Serbs do not fear. You are in your own homeland. You are in the southern province of Serbia and nobody will hurt you anymore.


UN Security Resolution 1244: Kosovo is Serbia

Eulex: Kosovo is Serbia



Kosovo IS Serbia

roberto

pre 17 godina

Well here is some very good news indeed: clinton (hillary) will be our new sect. of state, and susan rice will be our new ambassador to the UN.

both these women are incredibly smart and dynamic, and i think both have a thorough understanding of the situation we have been discussing, and will be helping to move things in the right direction.

as for nationalism, i really do not think it is the right way to go; it will not lead us to a better world. the belgrade regime has shown an increasingly harsh nationalistic tone of late ("we'll never accept an independent Kosovo...", throwing out "offending" foreign ambassadors, etc); it really smacks of the bad old days. and this naturally pushes nationalistic reactions.

in my opinion, this is not the way to go. we need to learn to live together, one way or another. ethnic separation is an impossible and in my opinion racist 19th century ideal. democratic pluralism really does work, but it is incredibly hard if not impossible in the midst of demogogues and almost daily hate-filled harangues.

Hope, not hate -- that is not just a platitude...

thank you.

roberto
USA

Gojko

pre 17 godina

Great news! Some one that catches this on the news outside of the Balkans will be thinking that K-Albanians are anti-Europe!

Actually that is the truth.

HE WHO SPEAKS THE TRUTH

pre 17 godina

I can just see the jumping up and down "i want my way" crying and rolling around in the snow what a bunch of kids LOL. Yes Pristina keep listening to your leaders and see how far it will get you nowwhere jacked up Germany and now they are not welcomed in Kosovo

veki

pre 17 godina

"Against six points – for Kosovo's sovereignty".

how comes?

I thought Kosovo was celebrating victory in UN last week?

Help me I am lost...

As well for mr. Ceku: I think you claimed that law and order must be imposed on the 'criminal north' -by force.
What's the problem now when law and order should be really implemented? Or is meaning of 'law' and 'order' (for the Serbs)
in your dictionary somewhat different?

MikeC

pre 17 godina

Please explain something to me! Two days ago albanians claimed success at the UN and the EULEX negotiations and now they are staging a protest against the deal!!!

Pejoni

pre 17 godina

"Kosovo is at the lowest levels of being multi-ethnic, with a 92 percent Albanian population and eight percent of everyone else" //Radmila Trajković

Oh we remember Serbian solution of multi-ethnicity, dont we? Ethnic cleanse 800.000 Albanians to make it multi-ethnic. And secondly, it's not our fualt Serbian women dont like giving birth.

bganon

pre 17 godina

Whereas in Serbia NGO's take a firm anti nationalist position, those in Kosovo are leading the charge for nationalism.

I know the situation is different, but it is telling. The same is true of student protests in Serbia and student protests in Kosovo - and I'm talking about before Milosevic as well.

L*O*G*I*C

pre 17 godina

Impressive how B92 doesn't cover the news. Mythical stories involving a (victim) serb out of nowhere appears but news such as Serbs demanding a 24/7 tv channel, no where in sight.

Great news "reporting".

dd

pre 17 godina

To all visitors on this site: Please look realistically to the latest events and compare reality to dream-wish posts on this site.

As per Albanian posters – latest UN plan – accepted with no objections from everybody in UN last week – including EU, NATO, US and all others, was “big win for Pristine” – as above posters try to convince us – 100’s of postings – finally we’re really independent etc – Serbia is big loser and need to get it communicated to their people.

And now what is this? – Question for same posters – Why you’re protesting (against UN, EULEX, NATO, US against whole world)? – You’re winners, you’re really independent. – I’m not getting this OR guys you’re completely out of reality and with all same broken record posts you show how stubborn people can be and wasting people’s time on this site.

I understand that you’re frustrated and need to protest, you’re promised something that is not real and can’t be delivered. They are guilty of promising impossible – give you somebody else’s property and you accepted it as given. But you and them face reality – it can’t work until real owner accept the deal and be paid off or reject the deal completely.

We’re trying to explain to you those simple things but can’t reach your understanding with pure logic. You need to hit the wall and feel the pain yourselves – to get the message and face reality – no true, if any independence in the site and when you finally realized it - go out and protest.

Please – be more realistic, use logic and get debate on fact-based level – don’t tell now that those protest are organized by Slobo and his people from Belgrade to make conflict with EULEX and the rest of the world.

Anyway – the luck is turning away from Albanians – that’s result of pure gamble.
Everybody needs to face the truth – conflict is there – problem is there – and can’t be solved without real talk and compromise – stubbornness based on false promises won’t get us anywhere.

Another Canadian Serb

pre 17 godina

Agim Ceku
should mind his own business and not mettle in Serbia's National interests. Instead, Ceku should concentrate on wiping out crime, corruption and in Kosovo and beyond. Enough is enough Ceku, your free handouts are over!!

luciano

pre 17 godina

Here comes the new boss(EULEX)same as the old boss(UNMIK).As long as Spain exists it will never recognize Kosovo as anything more than a province of Serbia and therefore Kosovo's only route to the EU will be as a province of Serbia which is economically 50 years ahead of Kosovo not to mention the 100 year difference in cultural development(no kanun in Belgrade).In the next 20 years China is going to be the world's superpower and in a position to dictate to the US(At present the US in indebted to China to the tunes of trillions of dollars and the debt is growing even more every day).The EU as a whole will never unanimously recognize Kosovo so legally it can only be but status neutral regardless of the ramblings of snakes and turtles in Pristina.For now the best thing for the EU to do is station Spanish,Romanian,Greek,Cypriot personnel in Serb majority areas along with troops to prevent what is sure to be upcoming criminal assaults by the KLA upon those areas.Germans are already realizing that the concept of trying to establish law and order in Albanian areas of Kosovo is a ridiculous undertaking as long as you have criminals constituting its government.Good luck to the EU protectorate of the Serbian province of Kosovo.

Another Canadian Serb

pre 17 godina

Agim Ceku
should mind his own business and not mettle in Serbia's National interests. Instead, Ceku should concentrate on wiping out crime, corruption and in Kosovo and beyond. Enough is enough Ceku, your free handouts are over!!

dd

pre 17 godina

To all visitors on this site: Please look realistically to the latest events and compare reality to dream-wish posts on this site.

As per Albanian posters – latest UN plan – accepted with no objections from everybody in UN last week – including EU, NATO, US and all others, was “big win for Pristine” – as above posters try to convince us – 100’s of postings – finally we’re really independent etc – Serbia is big loser and need to get it communicated to their people.

And now what is this? – Question for same posters – Why you’re protesting (against UN, EULEX, NATO, US against whole world)? – You’re winners, you’re really independent. – I’m not getting this OR guys you’re completely out of reality and with all same broken record posts you show how stubborn people can be and wasting people’s time on this site.

I understand that you’re frustrated and need to protest, you’re promised something that is not real and can’t be delivered. They are guilty of promising impossible – give you somebody else’s property and you accepted it as given. But you and them face reality – it can’t work until real owner accept the deal and be paid off or reject the deal completely.

We’re trying to explain to you those simple things but can’t reach your understanding with pure logic. You need to hit the wall and feel the pain yourselves – to get the message and face reality – no true, if any independence in the site and when you finally realized it - go out and protest.

Please – be more realistic, use logic and get debate on fact-based level – don’t tell now that those protest are organized by Slobo and his people from Belgrade to make conflict with EULEX and the rest of the world.

Anyway – the luck is turning away from Albanians – that’s result of pure gamble.
Everybody needs to face the truth – conflict is there – problem is there – and can’t be solved without real talk and compromise – stubbornness based on false promises won’t get us anywhere.

Gojko

pre 17 godina

Great news! Some one that catches this on the news outside of the Balkans will be thinking that K-Albanians are anti-Europe!

Actually that is the truth.

Pejoni

pre 17 godina

"Kosovo is at the lowest levels of being multi-ethnic, with a 92 percent Albanian population and eight percent of everyone else" //Radmila Trajković

Oh we remember Serbian solution of multi-ethnicity, dont we? Ethnic cleanse 800.000 Albanians to make it multi-ethnic. And secondly, it's not our fualt Serbian women dont like giving birth.

veki

pre 17 godina

"Against six points – for Kosovo's sovereignty".

how comes?

I thought Kosovo was celebrating victory in UN last week?

Help me I am lost...

As well for mr. Ceku: I think you claimed that law and order must be imposed on the 'criminal north' -by force.
What's the problem now when law and order should be really implemented? Or is meaning of 'law' and 'order' (for the Serbs)
in your dictionary somewhat different?

HE WHO SPEAKS THE TRUTH

pre 17 godina

I can just see the jumping up and down "i want my way" crying and rolling around in the snow what a bunch of kids LOL. Yes Pristina keep listening to your leaders and see how far it will get you nowwhere jacked up Germany and now they are not welcomed in Kosovo

Ron

pre 17 godina

The deal is: EU = UN + six points plan.

Dear Albanians,

You are NOT in charge of Kosovo. The UN is. Your head of state is a Dutchman.

You are not an independent state. You must do what the UN deceides.

You may protest against that. No problem. But hey, if you want the UN/EU to leave ... you forgot who saved you in 1999?

Nikola

pre 17 godina

Serbs do not fear. You are in your own homeland. You are in the southern province of Serbia and nobody will hurt you anymore.


UN Security Resolution 1244: Kosovo is Serbia

Eulex: Kosovo is Serbia



Kosovo IS Serbia

ZK

pre 17 godina

To my Albanian friends. It looks like you are losing favour with your protectors. I understand that you like to throw around figures, like 3/5 Permanent UNSC members and 7/7 G7 members having recognised Kosovo but you have to face reality sooner or later. 5/5 permanent UNSC members have voted for the functional partition of Kosovo while the G7 is history. We now have the G20 with more members supporting Serbia than not.

You should realise by now that the tide is against you with a multi-polar world changing rapidly. Serbia continues to gather strength while the Albanian representatives are only interested in saving their U$$'s.

By allowing the EU mission into Kosovo, you have failed my friends. After all, Jovan was right - you are being duped!

MikeC

pre 17 godina

Please explain something to me! Two days ago albanians claimed success at the UN and the EULEX negotiations and now they are staging a protest against the deal!!!

bganon

pre 17 godina

Whereas in Serbia NGO's take a firm anti nationalist position, those in Kosovo are leading the charge for nationalism.

I know the situation is different, but it is telling. The same is true of student protests in Serbia and student protests in Kosovo - and I'm talking about before Milosevic as well.

bganon

pre 17 godina

miri by any standard Serbia does not have an ultra nationalist government. Yes the Kosovo policy is firm, but on a host of other issues the position is moderate. Ultra nationalism entails warmongering, hateful speech, right wing ideology etc. This government defends its interests no differently to other countries.

Kosovo government is led by liberals??? I don't know how you can say that with a straight face. Do some of them even know what liberalism is? Are some of them more comfortable on the battlefield, or doing shady deals behind the scenes?

They are not too soft, they are too corrupt, looking for personal or political gain and bending to whichever policy will achieve that.

Holding a tougher stance than supporting independence, which all Kosovo Albanians support? (And then guess what, pretending that Kosovo independence IS the 'compromise' option)

We don't need more nationalism and demands for ethnic rights. We need more inclusive ideas that represent a wider cross section of society.

I'm just not used to seeing NGO's leading national projects. If the Kosovo government was supporting Kosovo remaining inside Serbia I would understand the position of NGO's and students, but in this situation, well I just don't think that NGO's and students should follow a nationalist, largely right wing agenda.

Tesla

pre 17 godina

"Thaci underscored that the strategic goal of Kosovo - accession in Euro-Atlantic integrations – "may not be achieved if corruption and organized crime are allowed to be established".

The snake should worry about solving corruption in his own part of Kosovo, the true source of crime, before accuses the Serb areas.

Dardania

pre 17 godina

>>>>>>> Radmila Trajković said that Kosovo Albanians "will not dare" to cause problems in the deployment of EULEX.

Define 'problems'. EU is not there to work against 90+% of people. Albanians will oppose and have said that they will oppose a dual system, the 6 points are not mandatory nor specific. Make sure Serbs don't 'cause any problems' once EU enforces one law, one system of justice.

Milan

pre 17 godina

Brother Serbs

I don't see what you are getting all excited about. We all know that nothing can come of this independence and its all a sham. The Albanians can sing,protest and wave flags all they want but that is just a fantasy that people will get tired of. This is a difficult situation for our people in Kosovo and people like Nikola saying that you are safe because you are in the southern province of Serbia is negligent. Our people are more at risk now then ever.

roberto

pre 17 godina

Well here is some very good news indeed: clinton (hillary) will be our new sect. of state, and susan rice will be our new ambassador to the UN.

both these women are incredibly smart and dynamic, and i think both have a thorough understanding of the situation we have been discussing, and will be helping to move things in the right direction.

as for nationalism, i really do not think it is the right way to go; it will not lead us to a better world. the belgrade regime has shown an increasingly harsh nationalistic tone of late ("we'll never accept an independent Kosovo...", throwing out "offending" foreign ambassadors, etc); it really smacks of the bad old days. and this naturally pushes nationalistic reactions.

in my opinion, this is not the way to go. we need to learn to live together, one way or another. ethnic separation is an impossible and in my opinion racist 19th century ideal. democratic pluralism really does work, but it is incredibly hard if not impossible in the midst of demogogues and almost daily hate-filled harangues.

Hope, not hate -- that is not just a platitude...

thank you.

roberto
USA

L*O*G*I*C

pre 17 godina

Impressive how B92 doesn't cover the news. Mythical stories involving a (victim) serb out of nowhere appears but news such as Serbs demanding a 24/7 tv channel, no where in sight.

Great news "reporting".

ZK

pre 17 godina

Here is a little reminder of Hillary Clinton's foreign policy experience. Something to do with landing under sniper fire in Tuzla. I wonder how long she will last as secretary of state with such faulty memory? This is going to be fun!

Check http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VfjJi2qjR8

Ataman

pre 17 godina

ethnic separation is an impossible and in my opinion racist 19th century ideal.
(roberto, 1 December 2008 21:33)

Yes, indeed. What do you think about separation based not even on ethnics, but on PRESUMED religion, like Muslims (speaking South-Slavic ijekavian) versus Catholics (speaking South-Slavic ijekavian) versus Orthodoxes (speaking South-Slavic ijekavian).

But: Orthodoxes speaking ekavijan are considered the same as Orthodoxes speaking ijekavian if they live in the north ("Serbs"). However, not in south ("Montenegrins").

What an insanity. Next time they should divide themself on the principe, who does begin to eat the egg on the top and who on the bottom side.

-------------------------

democratic pluralism really does work
(roberto, 1 December 2008 21:33)

Did not in some cases like Ukraine (democratic crook versus pro-Russian crook) or Sakartvelo/Georgia (here Americans can proudly say: "he is son of a b**ch, but he is our son of a b**ch"). Some democratic pluralists became not-so democratic and not-so pluralists (Saddam). And some as it turned out had a different agenda than democracy from the begin (Taliban). I tend to trust very little American "experts" on foreign policy. They seem to have way to "constructive" ideas, what that "democracy" really is.

And since USA is a rather large country with overwhelming majority focused on domestic issues, such "constructive" ideas in foreign policy can go long way before the need of change will become apparent. In the meantime the possibility of lobbying and corruption could be endless.

Correct?

-------------------------

but it is incredibly hard if not impossible in the midst of demogogues and almost daily hate-filled harangues.
(roberto, 1 December 2008 21:33)

I really miss where the hate really is. Unlike what you may think. But please look a bit outside of ex-Yugoslavia, in the north. And consider to confront with issue of gangs like "Magyar Gárda" or "Pannon Nemzeti Gárda". Contact American Embassy in BP, ask them, how big is the anti-semitism and the anti-American sentiment. Not that Russians would fare any better than Jews or Americans. There nothing even close on Balkan Peninsula to that rampage of open nazism. As someone correctly wrote: "in a society, what for middle class does not exist - is doomed to die out". At this moment, it's rather a chic to be a nazi right now for the middle class or at least buy a "Greater Hungary" sticker and attach it to the rear window. Never mind, such car can't be driven in, say "non-existent-on-the-map" Croatia. Serbia is lucky because it would lose only 1/4th of the territory - unlike Croatia or Slovakia (both 100%). I bet, it's a very fancy feeling to drive such car in, say, Rijeka. Never start a vacation on Adria without a sticker displaying the white-red checkered flag being in the background, under Hungarian crown and Croatia non-existing on the map:

http://tinyurl.com/5kwa5v

As for the official politics... the (in)famous viktor orbán (leader of the opposition, likely PM within 2 years) - here is a picture of his car:

http://tinyurl.com/5paqjz

Notice the form of the country sticker! This demagogue with the nickname "mini-duce" has extreme likely chances to become the PM of Hungary AGAIN. He has a toothless and amateurish Socialist party against him. He may even secure an absolute majority.

Roberto, what do you think about it? "Enjoy" the variety of these stickers :(

http://tinyurl.com/59vlen

No doubt, the "king" of all is this super-idiot and I just don't get the message he wants to say. Curious, do you notice, why?

http://www.napjaim.hu/wp-content/yugo.jpg

Ataman (from BG)

pre 17 godina

it's not our fualt Serbian women dont like giving birth.
(Pejoni, 1 December 2008 18:22)

It's a bumerang. A smart Serbian government could fight you with your own weapon easily - and you will even like it. No joke. With many kids you will need a lot of things to make your family happy. If I am Serbian government, I would try to target you directly to buy products for your family in Serbia you cannot buy otherwise or only much more expensive. Let's begin with cars. With smart marketing and pricing the difference could be well over 5000-7000 Euro (sell a new 7-seater car for 12000 Euro instead of 22000 Euro). I made it by myself for our family, so it's not impossible.

Besides happy Albanian customers, there would be many people happy in Serbia Proper who are involved and it creates many jobs.

Jovan

pre 17 godina

"By allowing the EU mission into Kosovo, you have failed my friends. After all, Jovan was right - you are being duped!
(ZK, 1 December 2008 22:37)"

thanks for the flowers, ZK.

but you don´t have to be Houdini to figure that out.

as for those protesters: as long as they protest in down-town Priština, in a civilized way, I am fine with that - since then they do not destroy serbian cultural heritage and proof of serbian presence for more than thousand years.

miri

pre 17 godina

Whereas in Serbia NGO's take a firm anti nationalist position, those in Kosovo are leading the charge for nationalism.
...........
(bganon, 1 December 2008 17:38)

And that should mean one thing!
Serbia still has a(n) (ultra) nationalist government in ruling whose radical decision is ruining the life of its people and needs to be told by its country's NGOs. On the contrary Kosova has a too soft and liberal government that needs to be reminded by its country's NGOs to hold a tougher stance.
But this is what we have been saying all along!

Any idea for compromise, anyone?

Mr Belvedere

pre 17 godina

It is the right of each Citizen to protest for something are worried about,Kosovars has this right too.
After the decision was made of Eulex deployment in Kosovo,my gess was Serbs are going to protest,but I was wrong.
Peace for Kosovo and Kosovars.
Thank you B92.

Pejoni

pre 17 godina

"Kosovo is at the lowest levels of being multi-ethnic, with a 92 percent Albanian population and eight percent of everyone else" //Radmila Trajković

Oh we remember Serbian solution of multi-ethnicity, dont we? Ethnic cleanse 800.000 Albanians to make it multi-ethnic. And secondly, it's not our fualt Serbian women dont like giving birth.

ZK

pre 17 godina

To my Albanian friends. It looks like you are losing favour with your protectors. I understand that you like to throw around figures, like 3/5 Permanent UNSC members and 7/7 G7 members having recognised Kosovo but you have to face reality sooner or later. 5/5 permanent UNSC members have voted for the functional partition of Kosovo while the G7 is history. We now have the G20 with more members supporting Serbia than not.

You should realise by now that the tide is against you with a multi-polar world changing rapidly. Serbia continues to gather strength while the Albanian representatives are only interested in saving their U$$'s.

By allowing the EU mission into Kosovo, you have failed my friends. After all, Jovan was right - you are being duped!

L*O*G*I*C

pre 17 godina

Impressive how B92 doesn't cover the news. Mythical stories involving a (victim) serb out of nowhere appears but news such as Serbs demanding a 24/7 tv channel, no where in sight.

Great news "reporting".

Nikola

pre 17 godina

Serbs do not fear. You are in your own homeland. You are in the southern province of Serbia and nobody will hurt you anymore.


UN Security Resolution 1244: Kosovo is Serbia

Eulex: Kosovo is Serbia



Kosovo IS Serbia

Another Canadian Serb

pre 17 godina

Agim Ceku
should mind his own business and not mettle in Serbia's National interests. Instead, Ceku should concentrate on wiping out crime, corruption and in Kosovo and beyond. Enough is enough Ceku, your free handouts are over!!

roberto

pre 17 godina

Well here is some very good news indeed: clinton (hillary) will be our new sect. of state, and susan rice will be our new ambassador to the UN.

both these women are incredibly smart and dynamic, and i think both have a thorough understanding of the situation we have been discussing, and will be helping to move things in the right direction.

as for nationalism, i really do not think it is the right way to go; it will not lead us to a better world. the belgrade regime has shown an increasingly harsh nationalistic tone of late ("we'll never accept an independent Kosovo...", throwing out "offending" foreign ambassadors, etc); it really smacks of the bad old days. and this naturally pushes nationalistic reactions.

in my opinion, this is not the way to go. we need to learn to live together, one way or another. ethnic separation is an impossible and in my opinion racist 19th century ideal. democratic pluralism really does work, but it is incredibly hard if not impossible in the midst of demogogues and almost daily hate-filled harangues.

Hope, not hate -- that is not just a platitude...

thank you.

roberto
USA

veki

pre 17 godina

"Against six points – for Kosovo's sovereignty".

how comes?

I thought Kosovo was celebrating victory in UN last week?

Help me I am lost...

As well for mr. Ceku: I think you claimed that law and order must be imposed on the 'criminal north' -by force.
What's the problem now when law and order should be really implemented? Or is meaning of 'law' and 'order' (for the Serbs)
in your dictionary somewhat different?

miri

pre 17 godina

Whereas in Serbia NGO's take a firm anti nationalist position, those in Kosovo are leading the charge for nationalism.
...........
(bganon, 1 December 2008 17:38)

And that should mean one thing!
Serbia still has a(n) (ultra) nationalist government in ruling whose radical decision is ruining the life of its people and needs to be told by its country's NGOs. On the contrary Kosova has a too soft and liberal government that needs to be reminded by its country's NGOs to hold a tougher stance.
But this is what we have been saying all along!

Any idea for compromise, anyone?

HE WHO SPEAKS THE TRUTH

pre 17 godina

I can just see the jumping up and down "i want my way" crying and rolling around in the snow what a bunch of kids LOL. Yes Pristina keep listening to your leaders and see how far it will get you nowwhere jacked up Germany and now they are not welcomed in Kosovo

Gojko

pre 17 godina

Great news! Some one that catches this on the news outside of the Balkans will be thinking that K-Albanians are anti-Europe!

Actually that is the truth.

Ron

pre 17 godina

The deal is: EU = UN + six points plan.

Dear Albanians,

You are NOT in charge of Kosovo. The UN is. Your head of state is a Dutchman.

You are not an independent state. You must do what the UN deceides.

You may protest against that. No problem. But hey, if you want the UN/EU to leave ... you forgot who saved you in 1999?

luciano

pre 17 godina

Here comes the new boss(EULEX)same as the old boss(UNMIK).As long as Spain exists it will never recognize Kosovo as anything more than a province of Serbia and therefore Kosovo's only route to the EU will be as a province of Serbia which is economically 50 years ahead of Kosovo not to mention the 100 year difference in cultural development(no kanun in Belgrade).In the next 20 years China is going to be the world's superpower and in a position to dictate to the US(At present the US in indebted to China to the tunes of trillions of dollars and the debt is growing even more every day).The EU as a whole will never unanimously recognize Kosovo so legally it can only be but status neutral regardless of the ramblings of snakes and turtles in Pristina.For now the best thing for the EU to do is station Spanish,Romanian,Greek,Cypriot personnel in Serb majority areas along with troops to prevent what is sure to be upcoming criminal assaults by the KLA upon those areas.Germans are already realizing that the concept of trying to establish law and order in Albanian areas of Kosovo is a ridiculous undertaking as long as you have criminals constituting its government.Good luck to the EU protectorate of the Serbian province of Kosovo.

ZK

pre 17 godina

Here is a little reminder of Hillary Clinton's foreign policy experience. Something to do with landing under sniper fire in Tuzla. I wonder how long she will last as secretary of state with such faulty memory? This is going to be fun!

Check http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VfjJi2qjR8

Tesla

pre 17 godina

"Thaci underscored that the strategic goal of Kosovo - accession in Euro-Atlantic integrations – "may not be achieved if corruption and organized crime are allowed to be established".

The snake should worry about solving corruption in his own part of Kosovo, the true source of crime, before accuses the Serb areas.

bganon

pre 17 godina

Whereas in Serbia NGO's take a firm anti nationalist position, those in Kosovo are leading the charge for nationalism.

I know the situation is different, but it is telling. The same is true of student protests in Serbia and student protests in Kosovo - and I'm talking about before Milosevic as well.

Dardania

pre 17 godina

>>>>>>> Radmila Trajković said that Kosovo Albanians "will not dare" to cause problems in the deployment of EULEX.

Define 'problems'. EU is not there to work against 90+% of people. Albanians will oppose and have said that they will oppose a dual system, the 6 points are not mandatory nor specific. Make sure Serbs don't 'cause any problems' once EU enforces one law, one system of justice.

dd

pre 17 godina

To all visitors on this site: Please look realistically to the latest events and compare reality to dream-wish posts on this site.

As per Albanian posters – latest UN plan – accepted with no objections from everybody in UN last week – including EU, NATO, US and all others, was “big win for Pristine” – as above posters try to convince us – 100’s of postings – finally we’re really independent etc – Serbia is big loser and need to get it communicated to their people.

And now what is this? – Question for same posters – Why you’re protesting (against UN, EULEX, NATO, US against whole world)? – You’re winners, you’re really independent. – I’m not getting this OR guys you’re completely out of reality and with all same broken record posts you show how stubborn people can be and wasting people’s time on this site.

I understand that you’re frustrated and need to protest, you’re promised something that is not real and can’t be delivered. They are guilty of promising impossible – give you somebody else’s property and you accepted it as given. But you and them face reality – it can’t work until real owner accept the deal and be paid off or reject the deal completely.

We’re trying to explain to you those simple things but can’t reach your understanding with pure logic. You need to hit the wall and feel the pain yourselves – to get the message and face reality – no true, if any independence in the site and when you finally realized it - go out and protest.

Please – be more realistic, use logic and get debate on fact-based level – don’t tell now that those protest are organized by Slobo and his people from Belgrade to make conflict with EULEX and the rest of the world.

Anyway – the luck is turning away from Albanians – that’s result of pure gamble.
Everybody needs to face the truth – conflict is there – problem is there – and can’t be solved without real talk and compromise – stubbornness based on false promises won’t get us anywhere.

MikeC

pre 17 godina

Please explain something to me! Two days ago albanians claimed success at the UN and the EULEX negotiations and now they are staging a protest against the deal!!!

Ataman (from BG)

pre 17 godina

it's not our fualt Serbian women dont like giving birth.
(Pejoni, 1 December 2008 18:22)

It's a bumerang. A smart Serbian government could fight you with your own weapon easily - and you will even like it. No joke. With many kids you will need a lot of things to make your family happy. If I am Serbian government, I would try to target you directly to buy products for your family in Serbia you cannot buy otherwise or only much more expensive. Let's begin with cars. With smart marketing and pricing the difference could be well over 5000-7000 Euro (sell a new 7-seater car for 12000 Euro instead of 22000 Euro). I made it by myself for our family, so it's not impossible.

Besides happy Albanian customers, there would be many people happy in Serbia Proper who are involved and it creates many jobs.

Milan

pre 17 godina

Brother Serbs

I don't see what you are getting all excited about. We all know that nothing can come of this independence and its all a sham. The Albanians can sing,protest and wave flags all they want but that is just a fantasy that people will get tired of. This is a difficult situation for our people in Kosovo and people like Nikola saying that you are safe because you are in the southern province of Serbia is negligent. Our people are more at risk now then ever.

Ataman

pre 17 godina

ethnic separation is an impossible and in my opinion racist 19th century ideal.
(roberto, 1 December 2008 21:33)

Yes, indeed. What do you think about separation based not even on ethnics, but on PRESUMED religion, like Muslims (speaking South-Slavic ijekavian) versus Catholics (speaking South-Slavic ijekavian) versus Orthodoxes (speaking South-Slavic ijekavian).

But: Orthodoxes speaking ekavijan are considered the same as Orthodoxes speaking ijekavian if they live in the north ("Serbs"). However, not in south ("Montenegrins").

What an insanity. Next time they should divide themself on the principe, who does begin to eat the egg on the top and who on the bottom side.

-------------------------

democratic pluralism really does work
(roberto, 1 December 2008 21:33)

Did not in some cases like Ukraine (democratic crook versus pro-Russian crook) or Sakartvelo/Georgia (here Americans can proudly say: "he is son of a b**ch, but he is our son of a b**ch"). Some democratic pluralists became not-so democratic and not-so pluralists (Saddam). And some as it turned out had a different agenda than democracy from the begin (Taliban). I tend to trust very little American "experts" on foreign policy. They seem to have way to "constructive" ideas, what that "democracy" really is.

And since USA is a rather large country with overwhelming majority focused on domestic issues, such "constructive" ideas in foreign policy can go long way before the need of change will become apparent. In the meantime the possibility of lobbying and corruption could be endless.

Correct?

-------------------------

but it is incredibly hard if not impossible in the midst of demogogues and almost daily hate-filled harangues.
(roberto, 1 December 2008 21:33)

I really miss where the hate really is. Unlike what you may think. But please look a bit outside of ex-Yugoslavia, in the north. And consider to confront with issue of gangs like "Magyar Gárda" or "Pannon Nemzeti Gárda". Contact American Embassy in BP, ask them, how big is the anti-semitism and the anti-American sentiment. Not that Russians would fare any better than Jews or Americans. There nothing even close on Balkan Peninsula to that rampage of open nazism. As someone correctly wrote: "in a society, what for middle class does not exist - is doomed to die out". At this moment, it's rather a chic to be a nazi right now for the middle class or at least buy a "Greater Hungary" sticker and attach it to the rear window. Never mind, such car can't be driven in, say "non-existent-on-the-map" Croatia. Serbia is lucky because it would lose only 1/4th of the territory - unlike Croatia or Slovakia (both 100%). I bet, it's a very fancy feeling to drive such car in, say, Rijeka. Never start a vacation on Adria without a sticker displaying the white-red checkered flag being in the background, under Hungarian crown and Croatia non-existing on the map:

http://tinyurl.com/5kwa5v

As for the official politics... the (in)famous viktor orbán (leader of the opposition, likely PM within 2 years) - here is a picture of his car:

http://tinyurl.com/5paqjz

Notice the form of the country sticker! This demagogue with the nickname "mini-duce" has extreme likely chances to become the PM of Hungary AGAIN. He has a toothless and amateurish Socialist party against him. He may even secure an absolute majority.

Roberto, what do you think about it? "Enjoy" the variety of these stickers :(

http://tinyurl.com/59vlen

No doubt, the "king" of all is this super-idiot and I just don't get the message he wants to say. Curious, do you notice, why?

http://www.napjaim.hu/wp-content/yugo.jpg

bganon

pre 17 godina

miri by any standard Serbia does not have an ultra nationalist government. Yes the Kosovo policy is firm, but on a host of other issues the position is moderate. Ultra nationalism entails warmongering, hateful speech, right wing ideology etc. This government defends its interests no differently to other countries.

Kosovo government is led by liberals??? I don't know how you can say that with a straight face. Do some of them even know what liberalism is? Are some of them more comfortable on the battlefield, or doing shady deals behind the scenes?

They are not too soft, they are too corrupt, looking for personal or political gain and bending to whichever policy will achieve that.

Holding a tougher stance than supporting independence, which all Kosovo Albanians support? (And then guess what, pretending that Kosovo independence IS the 'compromise' option)

We don't need more nationalism and demands for ethnic rights. We need more inclusive ideas that represent a wider cross section of society.

I'm just not used to seeing NGO's leading national projects. If the Kosovo government was supporting Kosovo remaining inside Serbia I would understand the position of NGO's and students, but in this situation, well I just don't think that NGO's and students should follow a nationalist, largely right wing agenda.

Mr Belvedere

pre 17 godina

It is the right of each Citizen to protest for something are worried about,Kosovars has this right too.
After the decision was made of Eulex deployment in Kosovo,my gess was Serbs are going to protest,but I was wrong.
Peace for Kosovo and Kosovars.
Thank you B92.

Jovan

pre 17 godina

"By allowing the EU mission into Kosovo, you have failed my friends. After all, Jovan was right - you are being duped!
(ZK, 1 December 2008 22:37)"

thanks for the flowers, ZK.

but you don´t have to be Houdini to figure that out.

as for those protesters: as long as they protest in down-town Priština, in a civilized way, I am fine with that - since then they do not destroy serbian cultural heritage and proof of serbian presence for more than thousand years.