9

Sunday, 24.08.2008.

12:40

Russia asserts itself – part II

Izvor: B92

Russia asserts itself – part II IMAGE SOURCE
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9 Komentari

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Felix

pre 17 godina

The villain in an American horror film that seemingly cannot be killed, the "Cold War" came back into our lives when you bombed Serbia.

Sreten

pre 17 godina

Great comments Willie and Mike. As we are used to from both of you, I have to say.
Commentator, drop me a line will you?

pacimbum@hotmail.com

Aleksandar Krajisnik

pre 17 godina

Dear former ambassador,
You wrote:” The reality is that the world is filled with major problems. This starts with the whole bundle of issues called the Middle East, including the Israeli problem; Iraq; Afghanistan; Pakistan; the rise of Muslim fundamentalism; and Al Qaeda and its offshoots."
You forget to mention that above problems were globally created / enhanced by shortsighted and short-range policies of USA administration which sometimes acted as an empire.

Buzz

pre 17 godina

I like your articles very much, as they look precisely like showcases of what the US Ministry of Truth has though you and other agents for so many years. You've probably stumbled accross a socialist- era slogan "Sto je vise kleveta i lazi, Tito nam je miliji i drazi". Likewise, the more you rumble about Russia (or the the USSR), the more we get to respect and like them... But allow me please to quote you - you say:

"Like the villain in an American horror film that seemingly cannot be killed, the "Cold War" came back into our lives last week with the Russian invasion of Georgia..." In fact, the US needed a crisis in the interest sphere of the former Russia (or in the ex- Warsaw block) to provide an excuse for deployment of a rocket shield in those two sad countries... Of course, that comics character Sakashwili did his litlle dirty part in all of this, as we know. Or you will tell us that he won Georgia elections without CIA full support?

Dear comrade, the Cold War has been healthy and well for all these years, kept alive thanks to the ruling gang in the US. Best regards and more luck next time.

nik

pre 17 godina

Dear Mr Montgomery,
The chance to strike a new Yalta style deal with Russia that would keep her satisfied is ALREADY missed, when NATO expanded in the Balkans. May be if Russia was acknowlaged as a "core" country of the Orthodox civilization (a la Huntingtion) it could have been satisfied and happy to cooperate with the West on almost all other fronts. But the chance was missed. NATO crushed Serbia and included Romania and Bulgaria, stepping firmly on the Black Sea (the access to which was could have become problematic with the cooling of the US- Turckey relationship. So now NATO has no choice. It has to include Georgia and Ukraine (moving to a modern Brest-Litovsk line) which will force the Russians to abandon their attmpt to have their own sphere of influence and to attempt to JOIN the West. If it doesn't, Russia will consolidate in the territories of the former USSR and then will chalange the West in the Balkans and elsewhere.

commentator

pre 17 godina

Well said Willie and Mike.

Let me add something about the "Russian mindset" (I've been there a few times including for a few months earlier this year).

Unlike Monty and other Washington arm chair strategists for whom this is a game - Russians FEAR WAR AND INVASION.

It is deeply part of there national consiousness. Everywhere you look they remember the fallen of the Great Patriotic War and even the First Patriotic War (against Napoleon). Tens of millions have perished due to invaders attacking Russia.

Yes, the country is paranoid about military blocks moving up towards it's borders. Why wouldn't they be given their history? Note, they have said they have no problem with the EU and ecomonic blocks that are for peaceful purposes.

And then a genius like Monty tells us they are about to invade Poland.... Jesus.

Again, Russians are AFRAID, everything they are doing now is purely defensive from their point of view.

I can only interpret what the US is doing now as deliberate provacations designed to liven things up a bit for the US military industrial complex.

Nothing else makes any sense.

Amer

pre 17 godina

This is "Russia resurgent," not the USSR. The world is no longer divided into roughly equal halves, but one largish country versus the rest of the world, at least in the case of the invasion of its neighbor Georgia. Russians old enough to remember the Cold War are nervous that Cuba and Venezuela were the only countries to come out in support of its actions there - even Lukashenko required a couple of weeks to issue a statement of approval. The CIS is falling apart, the Warsaw Pact countries are Russia's fiercest critics today, China is doing everything it can to entwine its economy with that of the US. It would seem that the US is not the only country that should reconsider its policies and actions.

Mike

pre 17 godina

Montgomery's conclusions about choosing our battles wisely and not irking the Russian Bear too much is sound, but the article loses sight over a number of things.

The Russian-Georgian conflict has already moved well beyond the original motives for mobilization. Newspapers now have shifted focus towards possible renewed US-Russian tensions in the coming years. Many even speak of a return to the Cold War. Many of these assumptions and catch-phrases are largely for reading consumption and little else.

First, the US no longer has the moral right to be the defender of international justice and freedom throughout the world. The Cold War was great in dichotomizing the world between this Western Alliance and an Evil Eastern Empire. Not anymore. Many countries that the US calls staunch allies have some of the worst human rights abuses and some of the worst levels in political corruption. Until we actually push states like Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Egypt, and Turkey to truly reform their internal policies, and embrace the same kinds of political rights and civil liberties enjoyed in the US, we cannot call ourselves defenders of democracy and freedom throughout the world. We have proxy countries just as Russia does. And the fact that almost all of the 9/11 hijackers hailed from US proxy countries shows how tenuous these "alliances" really are.

Second, Europe, or more specifically Old Europe, is not going to stand with us shoulder to shoulder. Whether we like it or not, the French and the Germans have moved away from US hegemony since 1989 and are looking to use the EU as their own vessel to steer a policy somewhere between Washington and Moscow. Just looking at Serbia/Kosovo shows that Brussels can be far more pragmatic towards finding a solution that the other two big powers. In the case of a potential showdown with America and Russia, I wouldn't put it past Paris, Berlin and Rome to cut a deal with Moscow - most of Europe is heavily dependent on Russian natural resources like oil and gas. The thought of economic embargoes and international sacntions, ineffective as they would be, would be disastrous for these countries. I can't think of a single European country that would stand shoulder to shoulder with us were a crisis with Russia to erupt into actual conflict.

Third, let's stop assuming Russia wants to recreate the USSR. Getting rid of these former Soviet republics, particularly the -stan countries eliminated a large non-Russian ethnic problem from them. Russia has now become definitively more "Russian" in outlook, political orient, and identity. We cannot equate the policies of Soviet Moscow with Putin's Moscow. Different scope, different objectives. I'd even go so far to say that the presence of a democratic government in Georgia is not the issue at all. What's at issue is the presence of NATO. Moscow may be irked at pro-Western governments in Tiblisi, Kiev, et al, but they are more irked if these states are aborbed within a military alliance designed to contain Russia.

Make a compromise: Russia agrees not to interfere in the internal politics of neighboring states in return for Western guarantees that none of the ex-Soviet republics (outside the Baltics) join NATO. The West gets the politics, and Russia gets the security.

It's common policy for any state official, US included, to view the world from their own national ramparts. One's own national interests must be considered first before we look at the rest of the world. Yet we need to start thinking what's critically important to us. If Russia is reasserting itself, we may have to abandon certain "outposts" that we know we can't, or won't, defend (such as Georgia). Not choosing to engage on all fronts may show a sign of weakness. But choosing to engage and then failing in our official objectives is a sign of folly.

Willie Garvin

pre 17 godina

Dear Ex-Ambassador,

Have you been engaged by Hollywood to revise history so that it closer resembles the black & white, hero & villain contrast so beloved of the foreign-affairs-ignorant masses in your great country?

The Cold War was a very Hot War in some parts of the globe and that was due to actions of Washington as much as Moscow. And yet you only speak of the Cuban Missile Crisis and the Soviet military interventions in Eastern Europe. How clever of you to whitewash out US nuclear missiles in Turkey, Vietnam, and some rather undemocratic practises in South America. The list goes on a long way on both accounts.

I also like the way you have whitewashed out of history the fact that Georgia initiated this recent conflict not Russia. The Russians have certainly made diplomatic mistakes in Georgia, but are you suggesting they should have sat and watched their peacekeepers be run over? What would be the Washington's response if Serbian troops launched an offensive against Kosovo and US troops were caught in the middle? Nothing? I suspect not!

With such a myopic understanding of recent history, it's no wonder your analysis and policy recommendations are so flawed and misguided.

Willie Garvin

pre 17 godina

Dear Ex-Ambassador,

Have you been engaged by Hollywood to revise history so that it closer resembles the black & white, hero & villain contrast so beloved of the foreign-affairs-ignorant masses in your great country?

The Cold War was a very Hot War in some parts of the globe and that was due to actions of Washington as much as Moscow. And yet you only speak of the Cuban Missile Crisis and the Soviet military interventions in Eastern Europe. How clever of you to whitewash out US nuclear missiles in Turkey, Vietnam, and some rather undemocratic practises in South America. The list goes on a long way on both accounts.

I also like the way you have whitewashed out of history the fact that Georgia initiated this recent conflict not Russia. The Russians have certainly made diplomatic mistakes in Georgia, but are you suggesting they should have sat and watched their peacekeepers be run over? What would be the Washington's response if Serbian troops launched an offensive against Kosovo and US troops were caught in the middle? Nothing? I suspect not!

With such a myopic understanding of recent history, it's no wonder your analysis and policy recommendations are so flawed and misguided.

commentator

pre 17 godina

Well said Willie and Mike.

Let me add something about the "Russian mindset" (I've been there a few times including for a few months earlier this year).

Unlike Monty and other Washington arm chair strategists for whom this is a game - Russians FEAR WAR AND INVASION.

It is deeply part of there national consiousness. Everywhere you look they remember the fallen of the Great Patriotic War and even the First Patriotic War (against Napoleon). Tens of millions have perished due to invaders attacking Russia.

Yes, the country is paranoid about military blocks moving up towards it's borders. Why wouldn't they be given their history? Note, they have said they have no problem with the EU and ecomonic blocks that are for peaceful purposes.

And then a genius like Monty tells us they are about to invade Poland.... Jesus.

Again, Russians are AFRAID, everything they are doing now is purely defensive from their point of view.

I can only interpret what the US is doing now as deliberate provacations designed to liven things up a bit for the US military industrial complex.

Nothing else makes any sense.

Mike

pre 17 godina

Montgomery's conclusions about choosing our battles wisely and not irking the Russian Bear too much is sound, but the article loses sight over a number of things.

The Russian-Georgian conflict has already moved well beyond the original motives for mobilization. Newspapers now have shifted focus towards possible renewed US-Russian tensions in the coming years. Many even speak of a return to the Cold War. Many of these assumptions and catch-phrases are largely for reading consumption and little else.

First, the US no longer has the moral right to be the defender of international justice and freedom throughout the world. The Cold War was great in dichotomizing the world between this Western Alliance and an Evil Eastern Empire. Not anymore. Many countries that the US calls staunch allies have some of the worst human rights abuses and some of the worst levels in political corruption. Until we actually push states like Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Egypt, and Turkey to truly reform their internal policies, and embrace the same kinds of political rights and civil liberties enjoyed in the US, we cannot call ourselves defenders of democracy and freedom throughout the world. We have proxy countries just as Russia does. And the fact that almost all of the 9/11 hijackers hailed from US proxy countries shows how tenuous these "alliances" really are.

Second, Europe, or more specifically Old Europe, is not going to stand with us shoulder to shoulder. Whether we like it or not, the French and the Germans have moved away from US hegemony since 1989 and are looking to use the EU as their own vessel to steer a policy somewhere between Washington and Moscow. Just looking at Serbia/Kosovo shows that Brussels can be far more pragmatic towards finding a solution that the other two big powers. In the case of a potential showdown with America and Russia, I wouldn't put it past Paris, Berlin and Rome to cut a deal with Moscow - most of Europe is heavily dependent on Russian natural resources like oil and gas. The thought of economic embargoes and international sacntions, ineffective as they would be, would be disastrous for these countries. I can't think of a single European country that would stand shoulder to shoulder with us were a crisis with Russia to erupt into actual conflict.

Third, let's stop assuming Russia wants to recreate the USSR. Getting rid of these former Soviet republics, particularly the -stan countries eliminated a large non-Russian ethnic problem from them. Russia has now become definitively more "Russian" in outlook, political orient, and identity. We cannot equate the policies of Soviet Moscow with Putin's Moscow. Different scope, different objectives. I'd even go so far to say that the presence of a democratic government in Georgia is not the issue at all. What's at issue is the presence of NATO. Moscow may be irked at pro-Western governments in Tiblisi, Kiev, et al, but they are more irked if these states are aborbed within a military alliance designed to contain Russia.

Make a compromise: Russia agrees not to interfere in the internal politics of neighboring states in return for Western guarantees that none of the ex-Soviet republics (outside the Baltics) join NATO. The West gets the politics, and Russia gets the security.

It's common policy for any state official, US included, to view the world from their own national ramparts. One's own national interests must be considered first before we look at the rest of the world. Yet we need to start thinking what's critically important to us. If Russia is reasserting itself, we may have to abandon certain "outposts" that we know we can't, or won't, defend (such as Georgia). Not choosing to engage on all fronts may show a sign of weakness. But choosing to engage and then failing in our official objectives is a sign of folly.

Aleksandar Krajisnik

pre 17 godina

Dear former ambassador,
You wrote:” The reality is that the world is filled with major problems. This starts with the whole bundle of issues called the Middle East, including the Israeli problem; Iraq; Afghanistan; Pakistan; the rise of Muslim fundamentalism; and Al Qaeda and its offshoots."
You forget to mention that above problems were globally created / enhanced by shortsighted and short-range policies of USA administration which sometimes acted as an empire.

Buzz

pre 17 godina

I like your articles very much, as they look precisely like showcases of what the US Ministry of Truth has though you and other agents for so many years. You've probably stumbled accross a socialist- era slogan "Sto je vise kleveta i lazi, Tito nam je miliji i drazi". Likewise, the more you rumble about Russia (or the the USSR), the more we get to respect and like them... But allow me please to quote you - you say:

"Like the villain in an American horror film that seemingly cannot be killed, the "Cold War" came back into our lives last week with the Russian invasion of Georgia..." In fact, the US needed a crisis in the interest sphere of the former Russia (or in the ex- Warsaw block) to provide an excuse for deployment of a rocket shield in those two sad countries... Of course, that comics character Sakashwili did his litlle dirty part in all of this, as we know. Or you will tell us that he won Georgia elections without CIA full support?

Dear comrade, the Cold War has been healthy and well for all these years, kept alive thanks to the ruling gang in the US. Best regards and more luck next time.

nik

pre 17 godina

Dear Mr Montgomery,
The chance to strike a new Yalta style deal with Russia that would keep her satisfied is ALREADY missed, when NATO expanded in the Balkans. May be if Russia was acknowlaged as a "core" country of the Orthodox civilization (a la Huntingtion) it could have been satisfied and happy to cooperate with the West on almost all other fronts. But the chance was missed. NATO crushed Serbia and included Romania and Bulgaria, stepping firmly on the Black Sea (the access to which was could have become problematic with the cooling of the US- Turckey relationship. So now NATO has no choice. It has to include Georgia and Ukraine (moving to a modern Brest-Litovsk line) which will force the Russians to abandon their attmpt to have their own sphere of influence and to attempt to JOIN the West. If it doesn't, Russia will consolidate in the territories of the former USSR and then will chalange the West in the Balkans and elsewhere.

Sreten

pre 17 godina

Great comments Willie and Mike. As we are used to from both of you, I have to say.
Commentator, drop me a line will you?

pacimbum@hotmail.com

Felix

pre 17 godina

The villain in an American horror film that seemingly cannot be killed, the "Cold War" came back into our lives when you bombed Serbia.

Amer

pre 17 godina

This is "Russia resurgent," not the USSR. The world is no longer divided into roughly equal halves, but one largish country versus the rest of the world, at least in the case of the invasion of its neighbor Georgia. Russians old enough to remember the Cold War are nervous that Cuba and Venezuela were the only countries to come out in support of its actions there - even Lukashenko required a couple of weeks to issue a statement of approval. The CIS is falling apart, the Warsaw Pact countries are Russia's fiercest critics today, China is doing everything it can to entwine its economy with that of the US. It would seem that the US is not the only country that should reconsider its policies and actions.

Amer

pre 17 godina

This is "Russia resurgent," not the USSR. The world is no longer divided into roughly equal halves, but one largish country versus the rest of the world, at least in the case of the invasion of its neighbor Georgia. Russians old enough to remember the Cold War are nervous that Cuba and Venezuela were the only countries to come out in support of its actions there - even Lukashenko required a couple of weeks to issue a statement of approval. The CIS is falling apart, the Warsaw Pact countries are Russia's fiercest critics today, China is doing everything it can to entwine its economy with that of the US. It would seem that the US is not the only country that should reconsider its policies and actions.

Willie Garvin

pre 17 godina

Dear Ex-Ambassador,

Have you been engaged by Hollywood to revise history so that it closer resembles the black & white, hero & villain contrast so beloved of the foreign-affairs-ignorant masses in your great country?

The Cold War was a very Hot War in some parts of the globe and that was due to actions of Washington as much as Moscow. And yet you only speak of the Cuban Missile Crisis and the Soviet military interventions in Eastern Europe. How clever of you to whitewash out US nuclear missiles in Turkey, Vietnam, and some rather undemocratic practises in South America. The list goes on a long way on both accounts.

I also like the way you have whitewashed out of history the fact that Georgia initiated this recent conflict not Russia. The Russians have certainly made diplomatic mistakes in Georgia, but are you suggesting they should have sat and watched their peacekeepers be run over? What would be the Washington's response if Serbian troops launched an offensive against Kosovo and US troops were caught in the middle? Nothing? I suspect not!

With such a myopic understanding of recent history, it's no wonder your analysis and policy recommendations are so flawed and misguided.

Mike

pre 17 godina

Montgomery's conclusions about choosing our battles wisely and not irking the Russian Bear too much is sound, but the article loses sight over a number of things.

The Russian-Georgian conflict has already moved well beyond the original motives for mobilization. Newspapers now have shifted focus towards possible renewed US-Russian tensions in the coming years. Many even speak of a return to the Cold War. Many of these assumptions and catch-phrases are largely for reading consumption and little else.

First, the US no longer has the moral right to be the defender of international justice and freedom throughout the world. The Cold War was great in dichotomizing the world between this Western Alliance and an Evil Eastern Empire. Not anymore. Many countries that the US calls staunch allies have some of the worst human rights abuses and some of the worst levels in political corruption. Until we actually push states like Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Egypt, and Turkey to truly reform their internal policies, and embrace the same kinds of political rights and civil liberties enjoyed in the US, we cannot call ourselves defenders of democracy and freedom throughout the world. We have proxy countries just as Russia does. And the fact that almost all of the 9/11 hijackers hailed from US proxy countries shows how tenuous these "alliances" really are.

Second, Europe, or more specifically Old Europe, is not going to stand with us shoulder to shoulder. Whether we like it or not, the French and the Germans have moved away from US hegemony since 1989 and are looking to use the EU as their own vessel to steer a policy somewhere between Washington and Moscow. Just looking at Serbia/Kosovo shows that Brussels can be far more pragmatic towards finding a solution that the other two big powers. In the case of a potential showdown with America and Russia, I wouldn't put it past Paris, Berlin and Rome to cut a deal with Moscow - most of Europe is heavily dependent on Russian natural resources like oil and gas. The thought of economic embargoes and international sacntions, ineffective as they would be, would be disastrous for these countries. I can't think of a single European country that would stand shoulder to shoulder with us were a crisis with Russia to erupt into actual conflict.

Third, let's stop assuming Russia wants to recreate the USSR. Getting rid of these former Soviet republics, particularly the -stan countries eliminated a large non-Russian ethnic problem from them. Russia has now become definitively more "Russian" in outlook, political orient, and identity. We cannot equate the policies of Soviet Moscow with Putin's Moscow. Different scope, different objectives. I'd even go so far to say that the presence of a democratic government in Georgia is not the issue at all. What's at issue is the presence of NATO. Moscow may be irked at pro-Western governments in Tiblisi, Kiev, et al, but they are more irked if these states are aborbed within a military alliance designed to contain Russia.

Make a compromise: Russia agrees not to interfere in the internal politics of neighboring states in return for Western guarantees that none of the ex-Soviet republics (outside the Baltics) join NATO. The West gets the politics, and Russia gets the security.

It's common policy for any state official, US included, to view the world from their own national ramparts. One's own national interests must be considered first before we look at the rest of the world. Yet we need to start thinking what's critically important to us. If Russia is reasserting itself, we may have to abandon certain "outposts" that we know we can't, or won't, defend (such as Georgia). Not choosing to engage on all fronts may show a sign of weakness. But choosing to engage and then failing in our official objectives is a sign of folly.

commentator

pre 17 godina

Well said Willie and Mike.

Let me add something about the "Russian mindset" (I've been there a few times including for a few months earlier this year).

Unlike Monty and other Washington arm chair strategists for whom this is a game - Russians FEAR WAR AND INVASION.

It is deeply part of there national consiousness. Everywhere you look they remember the fallen of the Great Patriotic War and even the First Patriotic War (against Napoleon). Tens of millions have perished due to invaders attacking Russia.

Yes, the country is paranoid about military blocks moving up towards it's borders. Why wouldn't they be given their history? Note, they have said they have no problem with the EU and ecomonic blocks that are for peaceful purposes.

And then a genius like Monty tells us they are about to invade Poland.... Jesus.

Again, Russians are AFRAID, everything they are doing now is purely defensive from their point of view.

I can only interpret what the US is doing now as deliberate provacations designed to liven things up a bit for the US military industrial complex.

Nothing else makes any sense.

nik

pre 17 godina

Dear Mr Montgomery,
The chance to strike a new Yalta style deal with Russia that would keep her satisfied is ALREADY missed, when NATO expanded in the Balkans. May be if Russia was acknowlaged as a "core" country of the Orthodox civilization (a la Huntingtion) it could have been satisfied and happy to cooperate with the West on almost all other fronts. But the chance was missed. NATO crushed Serbia and included Romania and Bulgaria, stepping firmly on the Black Sea (the access to which was could have become problematic with the cooling of the US- Turckey relationship. So now NATO has no choice. It has to include Georgia and Ukraine (moving to a modern Brest-Litovsk line) which will force the Russians to abandon their attmpt to have their own sphere of influence and to attempt to JOIN the West. If it doesn't, Russia will consolidate in the territories of the former USSR and then will chalange the West in the Balkans and elsewhere.

Buzz

pre 17 godina

I like your articles very much, as they look precisely like showcases of what the US Ministry of Truth has though you and other agents for so many years. You've probably stumbled accross a socialist- era slogan "Sto je vise kleveta i lazi, Tito nam je miliji i drazi". Likewise, the more you rumble about Russia (or the the USSR), the more we get to respect and like them... But allow me please to quote you - you say:

"Like the villain in an American horror film that seemingly cannot be killed, the "Cold War" came back into our lives last week with the Russian invasion of Georgia..." In fact, the US needed a crisis in the interest sphere of the former Russia (or in the ex- Warsaw block) to provide an excuse for deployment of a rocket shield in those two sad countries... Of course, that comics character Sakashwili did his litlle dirty part in all of this, as we know. Or you will tell us that he won Georgia elections without CIA full support?

Dear comrade, the Cold War has been healthy and well for all these years, kept alive thanks to the ruling gang in the US. Best regards and more luck next time.

Aleksandar Krajisnik

pre 17 godina

Dear former ambassador,
You wrote:” The reality is that the world is filled with major problems. This starts with the whole bundle of issues called the Middle East, including the Israeli problem; Iraq; Afghanistan; Pakistan; the rise of Muslim fundamentalism; and Al Qaeda and its offshoots."
You forget to mention that above problems were globally created / enhanced by shortsighted and short-range policies of USA administration which sometimes acted as an empire.

Sreten

pre 17 godina

Great comments Willie and Mike. As we are used to from both of you, I have to say.
Commentator, drop me a line will you?

pacimbum@hotmail.com

Felix

pre 17 godina

The villain in an American horror film that seemingly cannot be killed, the "Cold War" came back into our lives when you bombed Serbia.