Peter - I know that NATO and the EU are not the same, but 21 of the 27 EU members are also NATO members...and when they are dropping bombs on your home and killing you children, I doubt you would see a difference between them.
Peter - How can I explain something to you about being a Serb when you appear not to be one. Only the real Serbs will understand what I am talking about.
I can tell you one thing regarding your position on the EU: Whatever country you are from, I can be sure that the EU/NATO never bombed the hell out of it or tried to take you land and create another country out of it.
How are any of the new Eastern European states slaves in the EU? You make it sound like Soviet-era propaganda, if you could, you would portray the new EU citizens as slaves tied together with chains with some Western European slave owner beating us with a whip.
Why do you also suggest that virtues such as loyalty and hunger for money that would make one sell their family have anything to do with the EU as well? The EU has given us massive subsidies to build up our infrastructure, to create work in our countries and to enable us to travel throughout Europe.
Serbia can sit there and act tough by talking about loyalty and honour, but the fact is there are almost 1.5 million Serbs living in the West enjoying the Western economic knowhow which just makes their lives so much better than they would if they were sitting in Serbia, where the unemployment is high compared to other CEE states now in the EU. Loyalty and other virtues are not harmed by the EU at all, it is just an economic organization that improves the lives of the EU citizens, nothing more.
The fact that we are behind the other EU states in terms of development is no surprize, but we will not stay there forever.
What a joke. Nothing but words, it's obvious that the Serbs of Kosovo have been sold out by their fellow serbs in belgrade.
There was a time when Serbs were proud and their greatest virtue was loyalty, something most modern serbs have lost. These modern serbs have betrayed their Serb brothers and sisters, their history, their identity...willing to sell it all for a dollar. They want to join hands with the EU and be lead around like the cheap labor they will become. They will be slaves like many of those other eastern fools who hold hand with the EU.
There used to be pride in being a Serb, not like our Slav brothers and sisters who are willing to sell their mothers and daughters. A Serb would never betray their people, but not the case anymore.
Serbs have always been willing to fight for what they felt was right and millions of Serbs have died in those fights.
There is an old saying "it is better do die on your feet then live on your knees"
Many real Serbs have died on their feet and these cowardly new serbs are willing to live on their knees to the EU.
"URAN, you are absolutaly right but B92 failed to report that very important NEWS. Miss KosovO was sixed on line up on finals, and what is more importnat MISS Serbia took a picture with Miss KOSOVo showing the world that ordinary people don't bother with dirty politics."
(Ahmet Isufi, 14 July 2008 18:14)
Yes, thank you both for mentioning the miss universe contest, and these 2 "simple" (beautiful) women who are obviously wiser than the politicians i read about endlessly on these pages, in all of their very boring machinations. (sorry) Other news sites reported that these 2 women became fast frnds, and i thought this was so wonderful and even (sadly) newsworthy, but apparently some editors here thought otherwise. i do wish that both women would have made it to the finals, and managed to highlight their comradery, for the world to see, and be inspired by!
And thank you again, miri, for pointing out the obvious. my postings don't always seem to get thru -- must be the distance from far-away Frisco :))
by the way, in case anyone is interested, i will be back in my "beloved" balkans soon (as all my friends here like to rib me: Go to your beloved Balkans, it's a perfect match...)and we will be visiting croatia, bosnia (sarajevo, of course), serbia, and Kosovo/a, the first time for me since independence. very exciting but i hope it is not too hot! and we will be networking and starting to interview survivors and witnesses from the Second World War. Can hardly wait.
It is true, Kosovo is not recognized by the UN, yet. However, this does not mean that EU has not recognized Kosovo. Almost 80% of the EU has indeed recognized Kosovo as its own sovereign country.
Beauty pageants, sports federations, hot dog eating contests, etc -it does not matter. The important issue is that Kosovo is being recognized. As a Kosovar Albanian I understand the obstacles awaiting us, but I would rather face them, than watch my life go back to 1990s.
@ 1 Miri, so that means the Ahtisaari Plan does not exist anymore and is DOA at the UN. Also Miri the media shouldn't have distorted the FACTS in 98 99. Uran it's not about reversing independence because it's not, it's all about keeping our Serbian Kosovo with our Albanian friends liveing there. Not the World Uran just 40 countries.
Ok, miri, you are basically mentioning the same countries in different organisations. Big deal!
The G7 is now the G8 and they are no longer the world's dominant economies. China, India and Brazil belong in there somewhere
Why don't you try mentioning groups with other nations in them. For example
African Union (AU)
Islamic Organisation (OIC)
United Nations (UN)
Union of South American Nations (USAN)
Asian Cooperation Dialogue (ACD)
League of Arab States
and then we can look at regions and continents.
South America
Asia
Africa
Middle East
You see, now I am included different countries and the reason you didn't is because the overwhelming majority of the world does not support this nonsense of an entity. 90% to 100% of nations in most organisations and continents above reject Kosovo independence.
How things change when we include the rest of the world!
miri, the Athisaari plan was never put to a vote because it would've been rejected by Russia, so it will NEVER go to a vote for that reason. The outcome of that is that it cannot be adopted, EVER.
Uran, Miss Kososo was indeed in the pageant, but that's only a beauty pageant. Nothing to do with world affairs. If you are ever going to be a country and independent you must be accepted in other institutions, like UN, EU etc. You will not be.
And if you think that the world has accepted you, why haven't they said so. A beauty pageant means nothing.
See you in the Olympics.
"government's position on the international presence in Kosovo is that the EULEX could be deployed to the province only if approved by the UN Security Council."
Isn't it strange that Serbian ruling class has got no personal view and trusts such a vital issue to the UN ? What if one day Churkin catches flu there and misses his job ? How long Serbian goverment is going to be scared of it's own shadow ? How long is it going to ignore Russian vendetta against Haague Tribunal launched this Friday ?
There are things the Coalition is not afraid to talk about. One is Gazprom's NIS 51% share deal. I too believe that Gazprom could has trippled the sum as a form of a support for Serbia. Yet Gazprom is an expanding monster which even the united Europe cannot cope with ! And Serbia is not in a position to poison the relation with it's closest ally. Gasprom is a sinonumous of the inevitable Gas OPEC to take shape this year. It is the NABUCCO open killer.
So best if the temporary leaders of Serbia do not turn the pipe around Serbia. But if they go on selling NIS property and making new debts for the already sold company this can have fatal sequences for Serbia. This will not tribute to our relations which many of the hostile visitors to the forum are dreaming day and night.
Dear brothers ! If you believe that you understand what's going on very often it only means that you are not told the whole truth !
To ZK.
"What's your point miri?...
....
Just like Kosovo's independence has no legal basis and is also rejected by the overwhelming majority of the UN and world. "
Here is my point.
(Some facts from another site)
Formally recognized by 3 out of 5 UN Security Council (UNSC) Permanent Member States or 60%
- Formally recognized by 20 out of 27 European Union (EU) Member States or 74.07%
- Formally recognized by 21 out of 26 NATO Member States or 80.77%
- Formally recognized by 29 out of 47 Council of Europe (COE) Member States or 61.7%
- Formally recognized by 31 out of 56 OSCE Member States or 55.36%
- Formally recognized by 7 out of 7 G7 Member Countries or 100%
(and by 7 out of 8 G8 (G7 + Russia) Member Countries or 87.5% )
- Countries that formally recognize Kosova make up 69.48% of the World's Total nominal GDP
(Data collected from CIA factbook and World Bank, 2007)
International law figures prominently in the discussions in defense of the Serbian position. From the time between 1989 and 1999 Serbia had total disregard for international law and reaked havoc on it's neighbors with impunity. While international law still applies Serbia must recognize that it must compromise as the situations in dispute are much of their own doing.
Like always Serb ignore the existance of Albanians. You dont have to ask them, you don´t have to talk to them, don´t mention them. Kosovo is just a serb Territory, in their eyes. Denial any right of Albanians is quite conform to the actual "democtaric" state of Serbia.
As an Albanian I can not be dissapointed of someone who considers to be right to erase my living bases. No matter what Serbs decide. We have no other choice but to live in Kosovo and we know well what to expect from Serbia. Unlike before we have a capability to protect ourselves. You "intellectual" Serbs anyhow might think about your Democracy.
"This is not some neighborhood game. It is a decision that has been taken and Serbia should accept the consequences"
You can not just make decisions which violates international law like that. What if Republika Srpska suddenly "decided" to leave Bosnia? This is also a decision that can be made. But it is not being made because Serbia respects international law. You have to play by the rules, otherwise you are nothing but a criminal.
URAN, you are absolutaly right but B92 failed to report that very important NEWS. Miss KosovO was sixed on line up on finals, and what is more importnat MISS Serbia took a picture with Miss KOSOVo showing the world that ordinary people don't bother with dirty politics.
The Ahtisaari Plan was never rejected or approved by UNSC, it was never put to vote. Furthermore only Russia was against it and to claim that "the Ahtisaari Plan was rejected by UNSC" is disinformation at the least.
(miri, 14 July 2008 15:38)
--
What's your point miri? Russia would have VETOed the Ahtisaari Plan so it was indeed rejected even if it wasn't put to an official vote. But put simply, it is not approved so has no legal basis.
Just like Kosovo's independence has no legal basis and is also rejected by the overwhelming majority of the UN and world.
But you seem quite happy to insist on its independence. So when are you going to start correcting the western media about Kosovo's false and illegal independence?
"Since the plan was never approved because no vote was taken, it stands to reason that the plan should never be implemented because it never recieved official approval. Can you see the logic in that."
The plan will be implemented because most of UNSC, including at least 3 out of 5 permanent members, unofficially approve of the plan.(just like Russia, essentially the only one, unofficially dissaproves it).
But that's besides the point.
The language of the media should not distort the facts. The Ahtisaari plan was NOT rejected by UNSC, period.
This is the only fact. Interpretations like yours and mine, could be in the thousands.
The idea of reversing the independence is ludicrous, same goes for ratifying the SSA with Kosovo. This is not some neighborhood game. It is a decision that has been taken and Serbia should accept the consequences. Unfortunately, the new Serbian government is trying to buy time (until this “love”) for Kosovo cools down, or they are still very immature when it comes to the international game.
Last night Zana Krasniqi represented Kosovo as a separate state in the Miss Universe 2008. It shows that the world is accepting the newly formed country.
Lets hope we establish good relationship as neighbors.
Just another resolution doomed to achieve and change nothing. Isn't this the same as the resolution before it and the one before it...?
By the way is this really true? "the document said, explaining that the Ahtisaari package was rejected by the Security Council and the Serbian parliament. "
The Ahtisaari Plan was never rejected or approved by UNSC, it was never put to vote. Furthermore only Russia was against it and to claim that "the Ahtisaari Plan was rejected by UNSC" is disinformation at the least.
(miri, 14 July 2008 15:38)
Since the plan was never approved because no vote was taken, it stands to reason that the plan should never be implemented because it never recieved official approval. Can you see the logic in that.
Just another resolution doomed to achieve and change nothing. Isn't this the same as the resolution before it and the one before it...?
By the way is this really true? "the document said, explaining that the Ahtisaari package was rejected by the Security Council and the Serbian parliament. "
The Ahtisaari Plan was never rejected or approved by UNSC, it was never put to vote. Furthermore only Russia was against it and to claim that "the Ahtisaari Plan was rejected by UNSC" is disinformation at the least.
Legally, the Serbian government is correct. Resolution 1244 is still in effect, and only the UNSC can suspend, amend, or create UN resolutions. The problem is, the US and the EU, when they choose to, ignore the dictates of the SC and international laws. The entire scenerio is a farce, with Western powers doing whatever they feel like to suit their purpose. How in the world can Serbia trust the EU, and any SAA agreement or likewise, if the EU does not respect internationals laws which they themselves helped create?
Legally, the Serbian government is correct. Resolution 1244 is still in effect, and only the UNSC can suspend, amend, or create UN resolutions. The problem is, the US and the EU, when they choose to, ignore the dictates of the SC and international laws. The entire scenerio is a farce, with Western powers doing whatever they feel like to suit their purpose. How in the world can Serbia trust the EU, and any SAA agreement or likewise, if the EU does not respect internationals laws which they themselves helped create?
Just another resolution doomed to achieve and change nothing. Isn't this the same as the resolution before it and the one before it...?
By the way is this really true? "the document said, explaining that the Ahtisaari package was rejected by the Security Council and the Serbian parliament. "
The Ahtisaari Plan was never rejected or approved by UNSC, it was never put to vote. Furthermore only Russia was against it and to claim that "the Ahtisaari Plan was rejected by UNSC" is disinformation at the least.
"This is not some neighborhood game. It is a decision that has been taken and Serbia should accept the consequences"
You can not just make decisions which violates international law like that. What if Republika Srpska suddenly "decided" to leave Bosnia? This is also a decision that can be made. But it is not being made because Serbia respects international law. You have to play by the rules, otherwise you are nothing but a criminal.
"government's position on the international presence in Kosovo is that the EULEX could be deployed to the province only if approved by the UN Security Council."
Isn't it strange that Serbian ruling class has got no personal view and trusts such a vital issue to the UN ? What if one day Churkin catches flu there and misses his job ? How long Serbian goverment is going to be scared of it's own shadow ? How long is it going to ignore Russian vendetta against Haague Tribunal launched this Friday ?
There are things the Coalition is not afraid to talk about. One is Gazprom's NIS 51% share deal. I too believe that Gazprom could has trippled the sum as a form of a support for Serbia. Yet Gazprom is an expanding monster which even the united Europe cannot cope with ! And Serbia is not in a position to poison the relation with it's closest ally. Gasprom is a sinonumous of the inevitable Gas OPEC to take shape this year. It is the NABUCCO open killer.
So best if the temporary leaders of Serbia do not turn the pipe around Serbia. But if they go on selling NIS property and making new debts for the already sold company this can have fatal sequences for Serbia. This will not tribute to our relations which many of the hostile visitors to the forum are dreaming day and night.
Dear brothers ! If you believe that you understand what's going on very often it only means that you are not told the whole truth !
Just another resolution doomed to achieve and change nothing. Isn't this the same as the resolution before it and the one before it...?
By the way is this really true? "the document said, explaining that the Ahtisaari package was rejected by the Security Council and the Serbian parliament. "
The Ahtisaari Plan was never rejected or approved by UNSC, it was never put to vote. Furthermore only Russia was against it and to claim that "the Ahtisaari Plan was rejected by UNSC" is disinformation at the least.
(miri, 14 July 2008 15:38)
Since the plan was never approved because no vote was taken, it stands to reason that the plan should never be implemented because it never recieved official approval. Can you see the logic in that.
The idea of reversing the independence is ludicrous, same goes for ratifying the SSA with Kosovo. This is not some neighborhood game. It is a decision that has been taken and Serbia should accept the consequences. Unfortunately, the new Serbian government is trying to buy time (until this “love”) for Kosovo cools down, or they are still very immature when it comes to the international game.
Last night Zana Krasniqi represented Kosovo as a separate state in the Miss Universe 2008. It shows that the world is accepting the newly formed country.
Lets hope we establish good relationship as neighbors.
URAN, you are absolutaly right but B92 failed to report that very important NEWS. Miss KosovO was sixed on line up on finals, and what is more importnat MISS Serbia took a picture with Miss KOSOVo showing the world that ordinary people don't bother with dirty politics.
The Ahtisaari Plan was never rejected or approved by UNSC, it was never put to vote. Furthermore only Russia was against it and to claim that "the Ahtisaari Plan was rejected by UNSC" is disinformation at the least.
(miri, 14 July 2008 15:38)
--
What's your point miri? Russia would have VETOed the Ahtisaari Plan so it was indeed rejected even if it wasn't put to an official vote. But put simply, it is not approved so has no legal basis.
Just like Kosovo's independence has no legal basis and is also rejected by the overwhelming majority of the UN and world.
But you seem quite happy to insist on its independence. So when are you going to start correcting the western media about Kosovo's false and illegal independence?
International law figures prominently in the discussions in defense of the Serbian position. From the time between 1989 and 1999 Serbia had total disregard for international law and reaked havoc on it's neighbors with impunity. While international law still applies Serbia must recognize that it must compromise as the situations in dispute are much of their own doing.
Ok, miri, you are basically mentioning the same countries in different organisations. Big deal!
The G7 is now the G8 and they are no longer the world's dominant economies. China, India and Brazil belong in there somewhere
Why don't you try mentioning groups with other nations in them. For example
African Union (AU)
Islamic Organisation (OIC)
United Nations (UN)
Union of South American Nations (USAN)
Asian Cooperation Dialogue (ACD)
League of Arab States
and then we can look at regions and continents.
South America
Asia
Africa
Middle East
You see, now I am included different countries and the reason you didn't is because the overwhelming majority of the world does not support this nonsense of an entity. 90% to 100% of nations in most organisations and continents above reject Kosovo independence.
How things change when we include the rest of the world!
"Since the plan was never approved because no vote was taken, it stands to reason that the plan should never be implemented because it never recieved official approval. Can you see the logic in that."
The plan will be implemented because most of UNSC, including at least 3 out of 5 permanent members, unofficially approve of the plan.(just like Russia, essentially the only one, unofficially dissaproves it).
But that's besides the point.
The language of the media should not distort the facts. The Ahtisaari plan was NOT rejected by UNSC, period.
This is the only fact. Interpretations like yours and mine, could be in the thousands.
miri, the Athisaari plan was never put to a vote because it would've been rejected by Russia, so it will NEVER go to a vote for that reason. The outcome of that is that it cannot be adopted, EVER.
Uran, Miss Kososo was indeed in the pageant, but that's only a beauty pageant. Nothing to do with world affairs. If you are ever going to be a country and independent you must be accepted in other institutions, like UN, EU etc. You will not be.
And if you think that the world has accepted you, why haven't they said so. A beauty pageant means nothing.
See you in the Olympics.
Like always Serb ignore the existance of Albanians. You dont have to ask them, you don´t have to talk to them, don´t mention them. Kosovo is just a serb Territory, in their eyes. Denial any right of Albanians is quite conform to the actual "democtaric" state of Serbia.
As an Albanian I can not be dissapointed of someone who considers to be right to erase my living bases. No matter what Serbs decide. We have no other choice but to live in Kosovo and we know well what to expect from Serbia. Unlike before we have a capability to protect ourselves. You "intellectual" Serbs anyhow might think about your Democracy.
To ZK.
"What's your point miri?...
....
Just like Kosovo's independence has no legal basis and is also rejected by the overwhelming majority of the UN and world. "
Here is my point.
(Some facts from another site)
Formally recognized by 3 out of 5 UN Security Council (UNSC) Permanent Member States or 60%
- Formally recognized by 20 out of 27 European Union (EU) Member States or 74.07%
- Formally recognized by 21 out of 26 NATO Member States or 80.77%
- Formally recognized by 29 out of 47 Council of Europe (COE) Member States or 61.7%
- Formally recognized by 31 out of 56 OSCE Member States or 55.36%
- Formally recognized by 7 out of 7 G7 Member Countries or 100%
(and by 7 out of 8 G8 (G7 + Russia) Member Countries or 87.5% )
- Countries that formally recognize Kosova make up 69.48% of the World's Total nominal GDP
(Data collected from CIA factbook and World Bank, 2007)
It is true, Kosovo is not recognized by the UN, yet. However, this does not mean that EU has not recognized Kosovo. Almost 80% of the EU has indeed recognized Kosovo as its own sovereign country.
Beauty pageants, sports federations, hot dog eating contests, etc -it does not matter. The important issue is that Kosovo is being recognized. As a Kosovar Albanian I understand the obstacles awaiting us, but I would rather face them, than watch my life go back to 1990s.
"URAN, you are absolutaly right but B92 failed to report that very important NEWS. Miss KosovO was sixed on line up on finals, and what is more importnat MISS Serbia took a picture with Miss KOSOVo showing the world that ordinary people don't bother with dirty politics."
(Ahmet Isufi, 14 July 2008 18:14)
Yes, thank you both for mentioning the miss universe contest, and these 2 "simple" (beautiful) women who are obviously wiser than the politicians i read about endlessly on these pages, in all of their very boring machinations. (sorry) Other news sites reported that these 2 women became fast frnds, and i thought this was so wonderful and even (sadly) newsworthy, but apparently some editors here thought otherwise. i do wish that both women would have made it to the finals, and managed to highlight their comradery, for the world to see, and be inspired by!
And thank you again, miri, for pointing out the obvious. my postings don't always seem to get thru -- must be the distance from far-away Frisco :))
by the way, in case anyone is interested, i will be back in my "beloved" balkans soon (as all my friends here like to rib me: Go to your beloved Balkans, it's a perfect match...)and we will be visiting croatia, bosnia (sarajevo, of course), serbia, and Kosovo/a, the first time for me since independence. very exciting but i hope it is not too hot! and we will be networking and starting to interview survivors and witnesses from the Second World War. Can hardly wait.
What a joke. Nothing but words, it's obvious that the Serbs of Kosovo have been sold out by their fellow serbs in belgrade.
There was a time when Serbs were proud and their greatest virtue was loyalty, something most modern serbs have lost. These modern serbs have betrayed their Serb brothers and sisters, their history, their identity...willing to sell it all for a dollar. They want to join hands with the EU and be lead around like the cheap labor they will become. They will be slaves like many of those other eastern fools who hold hand with the EU.
There used to be pride in being a Serb, not like our Slav brothers and sisters who are willing to sell their mothers and daughters. A Serb would never betray their people, but not the case anymore.
Serbs have always been willing to fight for what they felt was right and millions of Serbs have died in those fights.
There is an old saying "it is better do die on your feet then live on your knees"
Many real Serbs have died on their feet and these cowardly new serbs are willing to live on their knees to the EU.
How are any of the new Eastern European states slaves in the EU? You make it sound like Soviet-era propaganda, if you could, you would portray the new EU citizens as slaves tied together with chains with some Western European slave owner beating us with a whip.
Why do you also suggest that virtues such as loyalty and hunger for money that would make one sell their family have anything to do with the EU as well? The EU has given us massive subsidies to build up our infrastructure, to create work in our countries and to enable us to travel throughout Europe.
Serbia can sit there and act tough by talking about loyalty and honour, but the fact is there are almost 1.5 million Serbs living in the West enjoying the Western economic knowhow which just makes their lives so much better than they would if they were sitting in Serbia, where the unemployment is high compared to other CEE states now in the EU. Loyalty and other virtues are not harmed by the EU at all, it is just an economic organization that improves the lives of the EU citizens, nothing more.
The fact that we are behind the other EU states in terms of development is no surprize, but we will not stay there forever.
Peter - How can I explain something to you about being a Serb when you appear not to be one. Only the real Serbs will understand what I am talking about.
I can tell you one thing regarding your position on the EU: Whatever country you are from, I can be sure that the EU/NATO never bombed the hell out of it or tried to take you land and create another country out of it.
@ 1 Miri, so that means the Ahtisaari Plan does not exist anymore and is DOA at the UN. Also Miri the media shouldn't have distorted the FACTS in 98 99. Uran it's not about reversing independence because it's not, it's all about keeping our Serbian Kosovo with our Albanian friends liveing there. Not the World Uran just 40 countries.
Peter - I know that NATO and the EU are not the same, but 21 of the 27 EU members are also NATO members...and when they are dropping bombs on your home and killing you children, I doubt you would see a difference between them.
Just another resolution doomed to achieve and change nothing. Isn't this the same as the resolution before it and the one before it...?
By the way is this really true? "the document said, explaining that the Ahtisaari package was rejected by the Security Council and the Serbian parliament. "
The Ahtisaari Plan was never rejected or approved by UNSC, it was never put to vote. Furthermore only Russia was against it and to claim that "the Ahtisaari Plan was rejected by UNSC" is disinformation at the least.
"Since the plan was never approved because no vote was taken, it stands to reason that the plan should never be implemented because it never recieved official approval. Can you see the logic in that."
The plan will be implemented because most of UNSC, including at least 3 out of 5 permanent members, unofficially approve of the plan.(just like Russia, essentially the only one, unofficially dissaproves it).
But that's besides the point.
The language of the media should not distort the facts. The Ahtisaari plan was NOT rejected by UNSC, period.
This is the only fact. Interpretations like yours and mine, could be in the thousands.
The idea of reversing the independence is ludicrous, same goes for ratifying the SSA with Kosovo. This is not some neighborhood game. It is a decision that has been taken and Serbia should accept the consequences. Unfortunately, the new Serbian government is trying to buy time (until this “love”) for Kosovo cools down, or they are still very immature when it comes to the international game.
Last night Zana Krasniqi represented Kosovo as a separate state in the Miss Universe 2008. It shows that the world is accepting the newly formed country.
Lets hope we establish good relationship as neighbors.
Like always Serb ignore the existance of Albanians. You dont have to ask them, you don´t have to talk to them, don´t mention them. Kosovo is just a serb Territory, in their eyes. Denial any right of Albanians is quite conform to the actual "democtaric" state of Serbia.
As an Albanian I can not be dissapointed of someone who considers to be right to erase my living bases. No matter what Serbs decide. We have no other choice but to live in Kosovo and we know well what to expect from Serbia. Unlike before we have a capability to protect ourselves. You "intellectual" Serbs anyhow might think about your Democracy.
URAN, you are absolutaly right but B92 failed to report that very important NEWS. Miss KosovO was sixed on line up on finals, and what is more importnat MISS Serbia took a picture with Miss KOSOVo showing the world that ordinary people don't bother with dirty politics.
International law figures prominently in the discussions in defense of the Serbian position. From the time between 1989 and 1999 Serbia had total disregard for international law and reaked havoc on it's neighbors with impunity. While international law still applies Serbia must recognize that it must compromise as the situations in dispute are much of their own doing.
To ZK.
"What's your point miri?...
....
Just like Kosovo's independence has no legal basis and is also rejected by the overwhelming majority of the UN and world. "
Here is my point.
(Some facts from another site)
Formally recognized by 3 out of 5 UN Security Council (UNSC) Permanent Member States or 60%
- Formally recognized by 20 out of 27 European Union (EU) Member States or 74.07%
- Formally recognized by 21 out of 26 NATO Member States or 80.77%
- Formally recognized by 29 out of 47 Council of Europe (COE) Member States or 61.7%
- Formally recognized by 31 out of 56 OSCE Member States or 55.36%
- Formally recognized by 7 out of 7 G7 Member Countries or 100%
(and by 7 out of 8 G8 (G7 + Russia) Member Countries or 87.5% )
- Countries that formally recognize Kosova make up 69.48% of the World's Total nominal GDP
(Data collected from CIA factbook and World Bank, 2007)
Legally, the Serbian government is correct. Resolution 1244 is still in effect, and only the UNSC can suspend, amend, or create UN resolutions. The problem is, the US and the EU, when they choose to, ignore the dictates of the SC and international laws. The entire scenerio is a farce, with Western powers doing whatever they feel like to suit their purpose. How in the world can Serbia trust the EU, and any SAA agreement or likewise, if the EU does not respect internationals laws which they themselves helped create?
Just another resolution doomed to achieve and change nothing. Isn't this the same as the resolution before it and the one before it...?
By the way is this really true? "the document said, explaining that the Ahtisaari package was rejected by the Security Council and the Serbian parliament. "
The Ahtisaari Plan was never rejected or approved by UNSC, it was never put to vote. Furthermore only Russia was against it and to claim that "the Ahtisaari Plan was rejected by UNSC" is disinformation at the least.
(miri, 14 July 2008 15:38)
Since the plan was never approved because no vote was taken, it stands to reason that the plan should never be implemented because it never recieved official approval. Can you see the logic in that.
The Ahtisaari Plan was never rejected or approved by UNSC, it was never put to vote. Furthermore only Russia was against it and to claim that "the Ahtisaari Plan was rejected by UNSC" is disinformation at the least.
(miri, 14 July 2008 15:38)
--
What's your point miri? Russia would have VETOed the Ahtisaari Plan so it was indeed rejected even if it wasn't put to an official vote. But put simply, it is not approved so has no legal basis.
Just like Kosovo's independence has no legal basis and is also rejected by the overwhelming majority of the UN and world.
But you seem quite happy to insist on its independence. So when are you going to start correcting the western media about Kosovo's false and illegal independence?
"This is not some neighborhood game. It is a decision that has been taken and Serbia should accept the consequences"
You can not just make decisions which violates international law like that. What if Republika Srpska suddenly "decided" to leave Bosnia? This is also a decision that can be made. But it is not being made because Serbia respects international law. You have to play by the rules, otherwise you are nothing but a criminal.
miri, the Athisaari plan was never put to a vote because it would've been rejected by Russia, so it will NEVER go to a vote for that reason. The outcome of that is that it cannot be adopted, EVER.
Uran, Miss Kososo was indeed in the pageant, but that's only a beauty pageant. Nothing to do with world affairs. If you are ever going to be a country and independent you must be accepted in other institutions, like UN, EU etc. You will not be.
And if you think that the world has accepted you, why haven't they said so. A beauty pageant means nothing.
See you in the Olympics.
It is true, Kosovo is not recognized by the UN, yet. However, this does not mean that EU has not recognized Kosovo. Almost 80% of the EU has indeed recognized Kosovo as its own sovereign country.
Beauty pageants, sports federations, hot dog eating contests, etc -it does not matter. The important issue is that Kosovo is being recognized. As a Kosovar Albanian I understand the obstacles awaiting us, but I would rather face them, than watch my life go back to 1990s.
"government's position on the international presence in Kosovo is that the EULEX could be deployed to the province only if approved by the UN Security Council."
Isn't it strange that Serbian ruling class has got no personal view and trusts such a vital issue to the UN ? What if one day Churkin catches flu there and misses his job ? How long Serbian goverment is going to be scared of it's own shadow ? How long is it going to ignore Russian vendetta against Haague Tribunal launched this Friday ?
There are things the Coalition is not afraid to talk about. One is Gazprom's NIS 51% share deal. I too believe that Gazprom could has trippled the sum as a form of a support for Serbia. Yet Gazprom is an expanding monster which even the united Europe cannot cope with ! And Serbia is not in a position to poison the relation with it's closest ally. Gasprom is a sinonumous of the inevitable Gas OPEC to take shape this year. It is the NABUCCO open killer.
So best if the temporary leaders of Serbia do not turn the pipe around Serbia. But if they go on selling NIS property and making new debts for the already sold company this can have fatal sequences for Serbia. This will not tribute to our relations which many of the hostile visitors to the forum are dreaming day and night.
Dear brothers ! If you believe that you understand what's going on very often it only means that you are not told the whole truth !
Ok, miri, you are basically mentioning the same countries in different organisations. Big deal!
The G7 is now the G8 and they are no longer the world's dominant economies. China, India and Brazil belong in there somewhere
Why don't you try mentioning groups with other nations in them. For example
African Union (AU)
Islamic Organisation (OIC)
United Nations (UN)
Union of South American Nations (USAN)
Asian Cooperation Dialogue (ACD)
League of Arab States
and then we can look at regions and continents.
South America
Asia
Africa
Middle East
You see, now I am included different countries and the reason you didn't is because the overwhelming majority of the world does not support this nonsense of an entity. 90% to 100% of nations in most organisations and continents above reject Kosovo independence.
How things change when we include the rest of the world!
@ 1 Miri, so that means the Ahtisaari Plan does not exist anymore and is DOA at the UN. Also Miri the media shouldn't have distorted the FACTS in 98 99. Uran it's not about reversing independence because it's not, it's all about keeping our Serbian Kosovo with our Albanian friends liveing there. Not the World Uran just 40 countries.
"URAN, you are absolutaly right but B92 failed to report that very important NEWS. Miss KosovO was sixed on line up on finals, and what is more importnat MISS Serbia took a picture with Miss KOSOVo showing the world that ordinary people don't bother with dirty politics."
(Ahmet Isufi, 14 July 2008 18:14)
Yes, thank you both for mentioning the miss universe contest, and these 2 "simple" (beautiful) women who are obviously wiser than the politicians i read about endlessly on these pages, in all of their very boring machinations. (sorry) Other news sites reported that these 2 women became fast frnds, and i thought this was so wonderful and even (sadly) newsworthy, but apparently some editors here thought otherwise. i do wish that both women would have made it to the finals, and managed to highlight their comradery, for the world to see, and be inspired by!
And thank you again, miri, for pointing out the obvious. my postings don't always seem to get thru -- must be the distance from far-away Frisco :))
by the way, in case anyone is interested, i will be back in my "beloved" balkans soon (as all my friends here like to rib me: Go to your beloved Balkans, it's a perfect match...)and we will be visiting croatia, bosnia (sarajevo, of course), serbia, and Kosovo/a, the first time for me since independence. very exciting but i hope it is not too hot! and we will be networking and starting to interview survivors and witnesses from the Second World War. Can hardly wait.
What a joke. Nothing but words, it's obvious that the Serbs of Kosovo have been sold out by their fellow serbs in belgrade.
There was a time when Serbs were proud and their greatest virtue was loyalty, something most modern serbs have lost. These modern serbs have betrayed their Serb brothers and sisters, their history, their identity...willing to sell it all for a dollar. They want to join hands with the EU and be lead around like the cheap labor they will become. They will be slaves like many of those other eastern fools who hold hand with the EU.
There used to be pride in being a Serb, not like our Slav brothers and sisters who are willing to sell their mothers and daughters. A Serb would never betray their people, but not the case anymore.
Serbs have always been willing to fight for what they felt was right and millions of Serbs have died in those fights.
There is an old saying "it is better do die on your feet then live on your knees"
Many real Serbs have died on their feet and these cowardly new serbs are willing to live on their knees to the EU.
How are any of the new Eastern European states slaves in the EU? You make it sound like Soviet-era propaganda, if you could, you would portray the new EU citizens as slaves tied together with chains with some Western European slave owner beating us with a whip.
Why do you also suggest that virtues such as loyalty and hunger for money that would make one sell their family have anything to do with the EU as well? The EU has given us massive subsidies to build up our infrastructure, to create work in our countries and to enable us to travel throughout Europe.
Serbia can sit there and act tough by talking about loyalty and honour, but the fact is there are almost 1.5 million Serbs living in the West enjoying the Western economic knowhow which just makes their lives so much better than they would if they were sitting in Serbia, where the unemployment is high compared to other CEE states now in the EU. Loyalty and other virtues are not harmed by the EU at all, it is just an economic organization that improves the lives of the EU citizens, nothing more.
The fact that we are behind the other EU states in terms of development is no surprize, but we will not stay there forever.
Peter - How can I explain something to you about being a Serb when you appear not to be one. Only the real Serbs will understand what I am talking about.
I can tell you one thing regarding your position on the EU: Whatever country you are from, I can be sure that the EU/NATO never bombed the hell out of it or tried to take you land and create another country out of it.
Peter - I know that NATO and the EU are not the same, but 21 of the 27 EU members are also NATO members...and when they are dropping bombs on your home and killing you children, I doubt you would see a difference between them.
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