Thursday, 29.05.2008.
09:15
At a joint meeting of the European Parliament and Kosovo assembly in Brussels, amendments not recognizing Kosovo independence have been thrown out of a declaration.
Izvor: Beta
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pre 18 godina
(Michael Blairsdale, 31 May 2008 21:44)
Michel teh one that wanted to remove others were teh Serbs that wanted to renove Albanians form Kosov a just 8 year s ago. You do remeber this?
So all what you say makes litle sense.
If you go back you will find again teh same Slavs form north that try to remove the Nativs in south.
USA give a concrete comment on what Endri posted- not genreal leftists positions.
pre 18 godina
Endri,
I have lived with them too and have found no basis for what so many others claim. Like I said, I have come to my conclusions from independent research and not propaganda. In fact, as I was researching these issues from non-Serbian or Albanian sources, it was clear to me that Serbs had no propaganda whatsoever, especially in the West. Once I was convinced of my positions from what I have read and listened to, I was astonished that Serbs never had enough organization and initiative to further their own cause. It was obvious to me that Serbs honestly believed that other countries and cultures throughout the world would recognize justice and reality, but were surprised when civilized and sophisticated societies like the US came under the influence of mega dollars and their own personal interests. Again, I would encourage everyone to conduct their own independent research and not blindly take in everything that is transmitted by international media outlets.
pre 18 godina
Endri
Whilst its great to go back as far as one likes to find who owns what, there is little doubt that Kosovo was a turning point in the nation of Serbia. However you must also realise by these silly points, that Scandinavian countries (Vikings) or Germany (Germanic tribes) could lay claim to the UK, or even Scotland, which tribe was first? Celts? Oh dear.
Serbs could also say they owned Bosnia, northern Greece etc at one point as well prior to the Turkish invasion. The creation of countries and respect of sovereignty was done to prevent wars on the scale of WW2 or return to feudal land grabs. The only consistency with Yugoslavia is that it has never been the case since its break up. The internal borders that changed under Tito were never recognised until it suited various powers during Yugoslavian break up. Kosovo was part of Serbia longer than when it was not.
Or shall we re-draw borders all over the world as soon as a group becomes unhappy?
Maybe you would not mind the Greeks to remove the Albanians from Albania? Or even Italy (Romans) if you want to go back in time? Hell lets go and remove the Turks back to Asia.
Maybe the previous owner of my house can come and claim it back for free too?
pre 18 godina
Dear USA,
“According to infoplease.com, Illyrians first inhabited this area, then Slavs in the 6th and 7th centuries, followed by Albanians in the 8th century, so Serbs were in Kosovo first”
Ironically you have stated latter that you have made a lot of research in the last 10 years and you are offering us the truth. I checked the website infoplease.com which you are referring to and that is what I found there: http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/world/A0856541.html
“After the division (395) of the Roman Empire, Albania passed to Byzantium. While nominally (until 1347) under Byzantine rule, N Albania was invaded (7th cent.) by the Serbs..”
“…aftermath of the Treaty of San Stefano (1877), which Russia imposed on the Turks and which gave large parts of Albania to the Balkan Slavic nations…”
I think I don’t need to talk longer as the facts are here and can be verified easily. Please don’t be a toy of Serbian propaganda which is the dirtiest I have seen in the history. We don’t hate any human race, on contrary we want to live in peace with all neighbours by treating each other equally and not like Serbs and Greeks as greater nations of Good. You have made research but I have lived with them in an academic society.
pre 18 godina
Ben,
1. According to country-data.com and Unicef, Kosovo had the highest birth rate in Europe (29 births per thousand) as of 1988.
2. You are correct. I was referring to the neighboring regions of Albania in Macedonia where the Albanian population is a majority. Based on your comments in 5 and 6 below, are you implying that these areas are part of Albania too just because Albanians are the majority? If this were always true, then parts of Bosnia and Croatia that were majority Serb or Muslim prior to the wars in the 1990’s should have become part of Serbia or part of an independent state, but instead were cleansed by mostly Croatian forces from these areas.
3. Part of my comment in 4 below will address this false claim. Also, if the majority of the Kosovo population was always Albanian, who were the occupying Turks fighting during the 14th century? History says Serbs, not Albanians. If the majority were Albanian, then Albanians would have fought the Turks to defend their country. According to the CIA website, Albanians didn’t replace Serbs as the majority population until the late 19th century.
4. According to infoplease.com, Illyrians first inhabited this area, then Slavs in the 6th and 7th centuries, followed by Albanians in the 8th century, so Serbs were in Kosovo first.
5. No need to comment. This has no relevance to independence.
6. Refer to comment 4 above. Other ethnic groups were there first.
7. No need to comment. There is no such thing as a greater Serbia or greater Albania.
With regards to the Bush comment, Bush is doing what is in the best interest of the US, not for you or for anyone else in Kosovo or Albania. Why would the US be so interested in countries that are some of the poorest and least developed areas in all of Europe? It is all strategic in creating a military presence to counter Russian successes in the past 10 years.
By the way, I am not Serbian or Albanian, but I have done enough research in the past 10 years to understand the demographics and politics in the region. It is now time for a lot of misinformation to be brought to the forefront so that people all over the world are no longer deceived by media that is significantly influenced by lobby groups in Washington. Millions and millions of dollars have been given by Albanians to lobby groups so that these lies are propagated on television, in newspapers, and in academic institutions. I invite all those who have not done their own independent research to do so and learn the truth, rather than blindly listen to the media, as many have done over the past 10-15 years.
pre 18 godina
Mirek,
just so you understand that many in Czech are not so easily deceived as yourself heres a programme that has convienently been blocked from being aired on Czech state TV - watch and learn from your fellow Czech (and excellent I might add) film producers;
Uloupene Kosovo
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4554948078128880143&
pre 18 godina
Anthony Shelmerdine, All those flags you mentioned CAN beseen displayed in one place. It's called Michael Jackson's back yard.
This makes Michael the rightful ruler of an imaginary world which Kosovo belongs to. So don't be surprised if there is a new addition to that world, the new flag of Kosovo.
Now let's get beack to reality. Those law abiding countries which don't recognize the illegal UDI should not sign anything put in front of them concerning any territorial integrity regarding Kosovo unless it clearly states that Kosovo is Seriban.
If EP cannot get all their members to sign it cannot implement their wishes.
But wait, didn't that happen and Kosovo was not recognized by the EU?
pre 18 godina
So other than make as much trouble as you can, even if that's not very much, what do you propose to do about Kosovo?
pre 18 godina
1. teh birth-rate of ALL nations in Balkans and Europe before the industrialization was the SAME
2. Albanians are not majority in Montenegro (are majority only in the are bordering Montenegro with Albania)
3. Kosova was NEVER 50-50. It was always overwhelm majority of Albanians
4. Albanians are autochthon- Slavs are not. They came in Balknas in VII century. (see the conflict of the name Macedonia/Greece)
5. the lands were Albanians live are compact and continuous
6. the parts that are not in teh today’s Albania is because they were occupied
7. pls. comment a word on the Great Serbia issue – be balanced
Hope I am clearer now
P.S. bizarre for G.W. Bush to have such stance on Kosova issue- since I guess only he has the legitimacy to sign US he got the legitimacy in elections- Americans elected him to represent America- and you? Where do you get your legitimacy USA???
pre 18 godina
Ben, you sound like the Ottoman Empire all over again. Are you suggesting that just because the Albanian birth rate far outnumbers other ethnic groups, those areas should be part of Albania? Should Montenegro be part of Albania too since the Albanian population is the majority? In the future, when the Albanian population outnumbers others in surrounding countries, should all of those areas be part of Albania? Don't forget, Kosovo was 50/50 Albanian/Serbian during WWII. Majority populations should never dictate independence. Should most of the Western US become part of Mexico just because they now have a majority Mexican population. I think not. Blerimi, don't worry, Albanians will one day realize that they had much more freedom under Serbia than they will ever have under the umbrella of the EU and the US. It will be too late though.
pre 18 godina
USA
We live in a world of interdependence. One can argue than no country is truly independent in a globalising age. The credit crunch in the US affects mortgages in the UK, the Wall Street crash in the 1920s had a devastating effect on the Balkan states's economies...
We (Albanians)are perfectly aware that as a small country will never be completely independent. What we have been seeking, however, is independence from Serbia. Independence to us means freedom. Freedom from persecution and discrimination.
The fact that you find more Greater Albania than Greater Serbia maps online does not tell you anything. The truth is, during the 1980s (and even before and certainly after) you could find more Greater Albania maps in Belgrade and Skopje than in Tirana and Prishtina. The idea has no significant backing and has never really had, at least in the last forty years. It has never been pursued either by official Tirana or Prishtina.
Greater Serbia, however, has been pursued by official Belgrade and its brain, the SANU.
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Check online and you will find many more maps of a Greater Albania than maps of Greater Serbia.
(USA, 30 May 2008 15:48)
you are right USA
we are drawing maps and Serbs are much more concree they start wars- Croatia, Bosnia, Kosova... and much more
we draw maps of the lands where Albanians effectively make the overwhelm majority of population (no need for Srebrenica) and bizarrely call it Great Albania- what a naivety- instead of callng it simply Albania. that's what it is.
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Joe, I'm not out to put any spin or any negativity on Kosovo, nor am I interested in degrading entire ethnic races like you do. My argument is simply based on a matter of the definition of sovereignty, and Kosovo Province today lack all of the qualifications that make it an independent state. I'm perfectly happy to let Kosovo be a EU mandate for the indefinite future. Lord knows Serbia is better off having this albatross taken off its neck. But to imply it's a state equal in stature to Serbia, Germany, or Montenegro, is plain wrong. I don't even need to resort to the CCCC rhetoric many use here. I don't follow it, and I don't need to use it to prove my point.
And having powerful and rich supporters is even more meaningless than the labels I ascribe to the region. That money is never going to the people on the ground - only a small group of elites in Pristina who are paid to remain loyal to Washington. You know the Cold War tactics our country played with rouge states and banana republics. The State Department's playbook hasn't been updated in decades.
pre 18 godina
Blerimi,
As I've said before, it does not matter who we think Kosovo belongs to. Once international forces entered in 1999, we all knew that they will never leave, just like the same forces will never leave Bosnia or Afghanistan. The day to day operations within Kosovo will not change just because a different flag flies or because someone else is officially named the president of a new state. Your dreams of independence and freedom will be short lived. The people of Kosovo, both Serbs and Albanians, will learn that having foreign parties approve all political, economic, and state security matters will over time result in the loss of cultural and religious identity for everyone involved. As far as a greater Serbia goes, what is the difference between a greater Serbia and a greater Albania when Kosovo is discussed? They sound the same to me. Check online and you will find many more maps of a Greater Albania than maps of Greater Serbia.
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(ZK UK, 29 May 2008 21:43)
'Seriously, you guys need to be lobbying much harder. I went to the Eurodisney site [link]/ and attempted to select this imaginary country called "Kosova" but guess what? It didn't exist!! '
ZK UK, of course you wouldn't find it if you were looking for an imaginary country!
I'll tell you about an imaginary country: Greater Serbia! :)
The one you never forgave Milosevic for not achieving!
The one so many of you were willing to murder, ethnically cleanse, rape and torture for.
You also said (for the umpteenth time, by the way - yaaawn):
'Just reading through all the comments here, how many times do the Albanians have to repeat that "Kosova" is independent? It really is like they are attempting to convince someone.
Do we get Montenegrans coming here, day after day, repeating "Montenegro is independent"?'
You could've said:
Just reading through all the comments here, how many times do the Serbs have to repeat that "Kosovo" is Serbia? It really is like they are attempting to convince someone.
Do we get the English coming here, day after day, repeating "Surrey is England"?
Cheers
pre 18 godina
Mirek,
- seem to have touched a nerve regarding Mnichovská diktát/Zrada - Seems different when the shoes on your foot dosent it!!!
But now I hope you comprehend the irony of you posting on a Serbian website and telling Serbs;
"EU has got enough of your 'open hands' and not much else, of you not being ready and willing to work on the remedy of your own affairs. The least you can do is to try not to disrupt Western efforts to help the impoverished Kosovo after years of Serbian rule..."
Or even showing up your lack of understanding of International laws and UN SC Resolutions when you cynically and ignorantly suggest;
"> and UN SC resolution 1244 states the oppposite of such a diktat!
Don't think so...but if you believe that, good for you "
Fact remains Kosovo is & remains integral to Serbia as is reaffirmed in UN SC Resolution 1244 - in that respect Czech goverenment are acting illegally in their recognition against this UN resolution - that they cant explain this truthfully to the Czech people is their problem - at least President Klaus fully comprehends as do many more Czechs and hopefully you have a bit more insight too!!
Here is some more insight from a UK aid worker and researcher;
"on a simple crude body count you are wrong. The death toll in Kosovo was in the hundreds before the start of the bombing campaign. It was around 5,000 by the end. Not quite the "genocide" that some people claimed, incidentally, but not a good precedent either.
I was working at Amnesty International during the Kosovo crisis. I first visited refugee camps in Albania and Macedonia during the conflict and then spent a year in Pristina seconded into the UN High Commissioner for Refugees. Tony Blair says that we "reversed ethnic cleansing" there, but I would not count the expulsion of over 100,000 Serbs and Roma from a province guarded by 40,000 Nato troops as a success."
http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/take_two/2007/04/oliver_kamm_v_conor_foley.html
So with a bit more insight Mirek,
the question you need to ask of yourself is who are you or the EUcrats to Diktat and try to shut Serbia out of what remains its internal affairs???
Mirek, just as Smile points out I too am very familiar with public sentiment and have many Czech friends who have a fuller understanding then yourself of this diktát/Zrada that many would like Serbia to accept today such as the same US, UK and France who saw fit to uphold and reaffirm Serbia's soverignty to end their illegal war by formulating and signing and thus being obligated by UN SC Resolution 1244 yet today would dictate otherwise!!!
Well just like the Czech's who did not accept the Mnichovská diktát/Zrada - don't expect the Serbs to accept the same Zrada!!
pre 18 godina
Kosovo is entirely dependent upon the EU and the US. Its independence is a sham. It has zero sovereignty. Even its precious flag had to be approved by its foreign masters.
pre 18 godina
Touched a nerve there Dardan... ha ha. Clearly the comparison with several 'make-believe' and fictional lands strikes home better than one could possibly have expected.
I think 'time travel' is a little melodramatic. I refer you to the previous ownership dispute over Kosovo and Metohija (i.e. Serbia v's Ottoman Empire... n.b. notice that there isn't a third party in this dispute). Took 500 years to get Kosovo and Metohija back and i would hazard an educated guess that it'll take less than 500 years this time (when one considers the hapless and morally corrupt element in Pristina that Serbia faces today). When your use is expended by your masters. Serbia will roll on back into Kosovo and Metohija.
pre 18 godina
People why you make such a big deal out of foreign factors, thats so simple, 2 MILION people, president, prime minister, national assambley, doctors, archtiects, lawyers, economists, workers, school kids, pensionists, criminals, gangs, drug dealers, homeles people, nobody in Kosova wants even a shadow of Serbia, even animals cows, sheeps, goats, dog and cats, even plant's trees, grass, flowers, nothing here wants STATE OF SERBIA and never will, we want to be Free, ist not about forigners is not about individuals, its about all whats Kosova is made of!
pre 18 godina
don´t worry Ratko,
since neither the actual flag of the republic of Albania is showing original albanian heraldic symbol´s nor that funny new "kosova"-flag...
you can rest calm, since that all is only a kind of "make-up"...
Hey Jovan
Please tell us which are the real heraldic symbols of The Republic of Albania.
For your curiosity I have a book of "Albanian heraldic emblemata".Can you please share your information (if you have any) with us?
pre 18 godina
smile,
You see life is not so bad. You lost Kosovo but you still have your mother (Russia). So keep smiling smile....
pre 18 godina
Ruben,
As I see you are well informed. The Slovaks have this pro-Serbian position only because of there large Hungarian minority, 10% of the population. Instead of treating them fairly like a civilized European country they discriminate them more and more by taking a page from the Serbian book "How to treat your minorities". I don't think it wise to follow the "Serbian way".
pre 18 godina
Mike,
It does not make the slightest difference how you label Kosovo. Even if you put on the most negative label the K-Albanians are the winners and Serbia is the big loser. The K-Albanians are out of the iron grip of Serbia (to put it very mildly) since 1999 and that is the most important thing. They have powerful and rich supporters, who will help them for a very long time at the great displeasure of the Serbs. Becoming fully independent and a UN member at this time is secondary.
pre 18 godina
Just reading through all the comments here, how many times do the Albanians have to repeat that "Kosova" is independent? It really is like they are attempting to convince someone.
Do we get Montenegrans coming here, day after day, repeating "Montenegro is independent"?
Well, of course we don't because that's the difference between a state that has negotiated independence and one that is made up.
Seriously, you guys need to be lobbying much harder. I went to the Eurodisney site http://www.disneylandparis.com/ and attempted to select this imaginary country called "Kosova" but guess what? It didn't exist!!
I really can't explain my disappiontment.
pre 18 godina
"This is an absolutely inadmissible display. Kosovo is not an independent state, .."
Don't worry Jeremic and other Serbs.
It was a dream- or nightmaare - up to you the judgment;))
pre 18 godina
"Kosovo remains Serbian land" "Kosovo je Serbija" ...
Do Serbian poster realize how OUTDATED and dogatized these phrases are. Whenever I see this kind of slogans and posts I think that they should be accompanied by phrases such as "Zivela Partija" "Long Live Tito" and other OLD, OLD brainwashing phrases.
You may chose to live in the past. Kosova has chosen the future.
pre 18 godina
since i dont care what eu accepts or rejects i'll just look at one comment here.
marek, nevermind princip, i see he's upset you, but i'll make you feel better. 60 odd years later and the grandchildren of those who 'pragmatically cooperated' to dismember their own country for the greater european good which turned out to be western blindness that led to the worst european nightmare appeasing a monster are still touchy about it? what can i say, there's a great lesson to be learnt from sudentenland case, never betray your country, because that kinda thing is never forgotten and it never goes away.
but marek there's not just you, i also read comments from czechs. they
are with us and understand the magnitude of abominable attempt to break up our country. which by the by we will never sign over ;)
anyway, fine comment marek all round :)) only, it's mother, not brother russia.
that should give you a clue you clearly need. it's mother, that's what we call her.
pre 18 godina
Kosova is Independent, and that how Europe has declared, To think that China and Russia will do anything about it, That is just plain dreaming. All that we are witnessing is that the Serb goverment is playing to its people yet again.. How silly must have looked in the EU parlament to have flags of protest from Romania, Cyprus Slovakia and Greece, just sad to see Spain in the same club, sure they must think 'how embarassing'..(but we understand).
I am sure there are intelectual Serbs are realising that the matter of Kosova has been concluded, and all what we are seeing now is desparate attempts from Serb goverment trying to prove to its people 'look we are doing everything'..Surely they too realise that its all over, and in a long run it does them more arm than good.
Hate to be in their shoes....
pre 18 godina
Great response by Mirek.
Had to smile when I saw the other posters refer to the Slovaks as brothers.
It is certainly not out of brotherhood that Slovakia is keeping a pro-Serbian position.
pre 18 godina
"Greece, Spain, Cyprus, Slovakia, and Romania..."
Can someone from the Serbian panel enlighten me what is the population of all these countries all together that can block the will of the rest of the EU?
pre 18 godina
Kosovo is not a country.
1. International organizations provide political administration.
2. NATO provides security.
3. The UN provides its existence.
4. Economic aid is almost exclusively pumped into the region.
5. It needs powers like the US for legitimacy and to exert political pressure.
By these facts alone, Kosovo is neither an independent state nor a legitimate political entity. It is a colony of the European Union and a US Dependency.
Flying the flag of the EU's most recently acquired piece of real estate does not legitimize its existence as an equal political entity along the lines of other European countries. Rather it shows that the EU has established ownership over the land and is seeking to show its legitmate acquisition at its own functions and conferences.
The day Kosovo can stand up on its own, and be recognized in international bodies like the UN will be the day Kosovo is an independent state. Until then, it is a colony. No more, no less. If the Albanians wish to think it's the world's newest state, that's their business, but without external powers to prop up this parastate, it would collapse in a matter of months.
pre 18 godina
"To Serbs,
Don't expect anything from the UN. The UN is another pork and meet association that we Americans own and pay all its bills. Its purpose is to keep some people in line, there is no such thing as international law because states were, even if it is, Serbia can't argue, states were are and will be created. The republic of Kosovo is an independent and sovereign country.
(American, 29 May 2008 19:42)"
Besides your last sentence (that of course is incorrect) we already knew all these facts, but thanks for reminding the world again of the (sad) reality. This will not last forever and maybe you should try to think what your own country will look like in 50 years when you, your children and grand children will be a minority (I assume you are caucasian). The high oil prices and the weak dollar already are starting to take its toll and this is just the beginning. US businesses are cheap to buy these days and the Chinese, Indians, Russians, Arabs, Europeans and so on will buy them, take the technology they need and close the place (similar tactics as you have done for many years in for instance Canada). Fortunately there are still many countries and people who believe in international law and justice will prevail. I just hope you people will be able to overcome the thought of having an African American as president and if not how you and the rest of the world will have to deal with another four years of GWB style politics. Have a nice day.
pre 18 godina
EU has again shown it's true face, and it couldn't be more ugly. If EU sends it's illegal troops to Serbian holy ground they will pay the price. Only UNMIK and KFOR has right to be there. Serbia has already tolerated way too much and has not used it's legal right to defend it's borders. Serbia should not take any more sitting down. There comes a time when you need to rise and say enough is enough!
pre 18 godina
What amuses me about the whole Kosovo situation is that Albanians think that the US and the EU have awarded them with something by supporting their pursuit of independence. Both the EU and the US will always impose the rule of law for all sides involved. US and EU military bases will be built and national laws will be based on EU and US directives, not on what Albanians, or Serbs for that matter, feel is right for Kosovo. Just look at Ireland. They have never allowed abortions in Ireland, but now they are being pressured by the EU to change this law, and believe me it will change. Kosovo is just another example of a weak eastern european territory that will be taken advantage of as the US and the EU build an eastern front to increase military and economic presence on Russia's doorstep, especially with Russia's recent growth in the global economic and political arenas.
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"Kosovo remains Serbian land" (nyoutlawyer, 29 May 2008 17:47)
Keep repeating this enough times and it might just happen.
Oh, and Anthony Shelmerdine, I also can't wait to see the flags of "Never Never Land..." Supposedly, you, nyoutlawyer, and all your other friends that believe (backwards) time travel to be feasible, will find yourselves downright at home there.
pre 18 godina
To Serbs,
Don't expect anything from the UN. The UN is another pork and meet association that we Americans own and pay all its bills. Its purpose is to keep some people in line, there is no such thing as international law because states were, even if it is, Serbia can't argue, states were are and will be created. The republic of Kosovo is an independent and sovereign country.
pre 18 godina
Dear Princip,
> the open hand of friendship remians and that is fine if you don't want it - thats your choice!
I didn't say anything about looking down at Serbs or not wanting to be friends with any friendly nation in the world, just the question is if Serbia really is up to offering anything at the moment, so far it has only been able to accept the help of others (especially the EU) and it is not particularly greatful for it either...
> I am sure your Slovak brothers comprehend how this works sometimes and they went through their phase of learning under Meciar in the 90's
Are you seriously comparing the experience of Slovakia in 1990's with Serbia's ultranationalist SRS, DSS and their past as well as present??? Don't think in case of the SRS, DSS & SPS coalition, leading Serbia to the embrace of your eastern brother Russia (hence maybe the clue why Serbian people voted as they did - Central Europeans don't have a cultural affinity to Russia as you have - take this as you will) you will not be much more isolated than they were...
> Yet, now the Slovaks stand above the Czechs on many development scores and are about to adopt the Euro in advance of yourselves.
Yes, Slovakia will adopt the Euro first. Do you think it must be a positive thing? What about the main reason - a low confidence of Slovak people in their own currency...surely not the case the sooner, the better...let's see. Overall Slovakia is still lagging behind the Czech Republic (GDP, wages, quality of life..you name it...)
> So Serbia can follow its own path too - through hard work and struggle comes rewards since it is never given and handed out on a plate!!!
We (and all the countries of CEE) know that well, it has not been discovered by serbia in 2008:)) We have worked very hard over the past 20 years to get where we are now - in case of Czech Republic being now more developed economically than Portugal for example - do you think someone has given that to us just like that?
> Rest assured Serbia under such a SRS-DSS-NS-SPS-PUPS-JS-LS govt will always be happy to allow the Czechs to realise the legal path forward with no recrimination when there 'few ploitical' elites come back to their senses and respect UN resolutions and laws!
No thank you, we know what we are doing. Funny, feels like a kid is trying to teach it's mum:)))
> Till then dont expect things to be luvvy dovvy when you disrespect and act against UN resolutions over Serbia's sovereignity - Serbians are not willing to accept a Mnichovská diktát/Zrada like you might have been
Who are you that you can DARE to make such a comment??? We have NEVER accepted the betrayal that is TOTALLY incomparable to Kosovo - we have at least never attacked, tortured or killed people in Sudety...get some knowledge before you write such offending comments, please
> and UN SC resolution 1244 states the oppposite of such a diktat!
Don't think so...but if you believe that, good for you
In general, I believe Serbia should stop trying to blame anyone and everyone else for its own failures and try to at least somehow acknowledge the crimes it (it's political 'elites' mainly) has committed (same applies to Russia - hence the 'brotherhood'??) in the 1990's
All the best to all good people
pre 18 godina
Gee - I didn't know that Serbia was a card-carrying member of the European Parliament (EP)!
Oh wait - they are not! And therefore they have absolutely no say in what is admissible or not.
(Jan Andersen, DK, 29 May 2008 11:16)
--
Absolutely correct and Serbia should not even be concerned with EU theatrics. But more importantly, since it is not part of it, the EU has absolutely no say over Serbian territory. The last time I checked, the EU is not the UN.
How dissapointed they must be. A whole lot of recognitions leading to nowhere but I suppose they must entertain themselves somehow.
pre 18 godina
don´t worry Ratko,
since neither the actual flag of the republic of Albania is showing original albanian heraldic symbol´s nor that funny new "kosova"-flag...
you can rest calm, since that all is only a kind of "make-up"...
I found it quite amusing to read our albanian friends thoughts about how unimportant and unreal Mr.Jeremic is...
well, yes, my dear albanian friends... that´s all you are reduced to ( besides violence against serbian civilians, of course )
desperately trying to present yourself as kinda cool and cynical... but I´d recommend you to stay calm, since UNSC 1244 is the one and only thing that says it all. and time is on Serbia´s side, so, after Russia, Brasil, China, South Africa...there will be many more countries raising their ( more and more important ) voice
pre 18 godina
>> we have filed a fierce diplomatic protest
That will REALLY scare them, Vuk. You show them.
it's Over Serbs. Admit you have treated Albanians horribly and move on. You are no better than us.
>> hitler couldn't steal our KiM from us, neither will america.
Thanks to the allied forces and Tito. Sorry to remind you.
pre 18 godina
Luigi, I don't believe Jeremic is "Little". He is actually of decent height. Or are you trying to be sarcastic? BTW, why are most pro-Albin commentators here often sarcastic? Can we have a discussion without sarcasm?
As for Kosovo being an independent state, it is not. As much as the EU is using U.S. "strong arm" tactics to force their agenda, it means nothing without UNSC recognition. Their will be NO UN seat, therefore NO independent Kosovo. The law is the law, no matter how you try to re-paint it. You can put lipstick on a pig, and it's still a pig. Kosovo remains Serbian land, no matter what the EU/US is trying to force through.
pre 18 godina
The response of the Serbian government is at this point of time the best and most honest that can be done. It is quite obvious that the (Kosovo) Albanian commentators here and some of their supporters are displaying the usual arrogance which is a direct results of living in denial and in a fake reality in a fake country. Your US and EU masters have displayed unhappiness because the waves of recognitions have stopped, mainly because of a lack of PR which historically is not a part of your culture anyway (being violent, wining for help when you get butt-kicked and intollerance of everything and everybody who is different better describe your thinking and behavior). As long as the UN exists and there is a UNSC with Russia and China you people should get used to the fact that Kosovo is and will be a province of The Republic of Serbia. You let the opportunity go to turn it into an autonomous province again. You all blame Serbia on all your past missery, but it is more accurate to blame all former Yogoslav republics including your own people.
Starting in 1982 and 1983, in response to nationalist Albanian riots in Kosovo, the Central Committee of the SFRY League of Communists adopted a set of conclusions aimed at centralizing Serbia’s control over law enforcement and the judiciary in its Kosovo and Vojvodina provinces. In 1986 Serbian president Ivan Stambolic established a commission to amend the Serbian Constitution inkeeping with conclusions adopted by the federal Communist Party. The constitutional commission worked for three years to harmonize its positions and in 1989 an amended Serbian constitution was submitted to the governments of Kosovo, Vojvodina and Serbia for approval. On March 10, 1989 the Vojvodina Assembly approved the amendments, followed by the Kosovo Assembly on March 23, and the Serbian Assembly on March 28. In the Kosovo Assembly 187 of the 190 assembly members were present when the vote was taken: 10 voted against the amendments, two abstained, and the remaining 175 voted in favor of the amendments.
Enjoy the ride along some of your masters while it lasts.
pre 18 godina
Mirek,
the open hand of friendship remians and that is fine if you don't want it - thats your choice!
I am sure your Slovak brothers comprehend how this works sometimes and they went through their phase of learning under Meciar in the 90's and now Today have as part of their governing coalition the Slovak Nationalist Party which the EUcrats whinced and moaned at. Yet, now the Slovaks stand above the Czechs on many development scores and are about to adopt the Euro in advance of yourselves. So Serbia can follow its own path too - through hard work and struggle comes rewards since it is never given and handed out on a plate!!!
Rest assured Serbia under such a SRS-DSS-NS-SPS-PUPS-JS-LS govt will always be happy to allow the Czechs to realise the legal path forward with no recrimination when there 'few ploitical' elites come back to their senses and respect UN resolutions and laws! Till then dont expect things to be luvvy dovvy when you disrespect and act against UN resolutions over Serbia's sovereignity - Serbians are not willing to accept a Mnichovská diktát/Zrada like you might have been - and UN SC resolution 1244 states the oppposite of such a diktat!
Dovi...
pre 18 godina
Kosovo flag??? WHAT A JOKE! Fake flag, fake country, fake attempt at fake history. hitler couldn't steal our KiM from us, neither will america.
pre 18 godina
Getter get used to seeing the flag in European institutions. Let's not forget Kosova is independent and can only be represented by it's own flag (not Albanian or Serbian nor UNMIK).
I love it when Jeremic throws a strop like a child and no one cares! He must get frustrated by it.
A reality check needs to take place!
pre 18 godina
Nice statistics Maks.... However, the distinct lack of stats concerning UN members (the only body that actually matters) who have recognised the false state in question shows your arguement for what it is.... weak and Euro-centric. There's a big world beyond Europe.
Lest we forget that... 'statistics can prove anything... 68% of all people know that'(Homer Simpson)
pre 18 godina
"This is an absolutely inadmissible display. Kosovo is not an independent state, the EU has not recognized Kosovo, but a certain number of countries unfortunately have," Foreign Minister Vuk Jeremi� told the Serbian national broadcaster RTS.
��but a certain number of countries unfortunately have��
Serbian FM is normally informed guy �but a certain number of events unfortunately he is not. Let remind him that Kosovo is:
Formally recognized by 20 out of 27 European Union (EU) Member States or 74.07%
Formally recognized by 21 out of 26 NATO Member States or 80.77%
Formally recognized by 29 out of 47 Council of Europe (COE) Member States or 61.7%
Formally recognized by 31 out of 56 OSCE Member States or 55.36%
Mr. Jeremic, get real! Election is over and you lost. Now it's not worth it to pretend you are misinformed.
pre 18 godina
This is not inadmissible display Mr. Jeremic, this is not an incident Dear B92, this is A REALITY.
Kosova is an independent country and therefore it has a flag of its own.
pre 18 godina
Jeremić is a fool. The powers within the EU keep humiliating him and his party (the DS) but they still remain loyal and subservient.
This should be a clear message to all those Serbians who believe Kosovo can be protected within the EU. It can't be further from the truth.
There really isn't anything to be upset about here. Kosovo is an EU/US production and they are playing out some make believe scenes within their own little studios because the rest of the world is simply not interested.
Take it as a sign of EU frustration and not progress because they are not getting anywhere. They can't even agree between themselves and are blocked at the UN! The independence movement is dead and you can rest assured, there will never be a "Kosova" flag flying at the UN. That is reserved only for real countries.
Anyway, I searched the internet high and low to finally find a photo of the culprit who put that flag up. And here it is, check http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/fc/Porky_pig.jpg
That's all folks!
pre 18 godina
How is this an incident?
pre 18 godina
It was not an incident.
Actually only 1 Greek MEP was against the Agenda.
All other MEPs had constructive approach and they were very much informed in details - exept a Romanian MEP bcs everyone laughed at him - Slovenians, Germans, French, Austrians, Britts, Albanians etc.
pre 18 godina
Kosovo is soveriegn Serbian territory. Fortunately most countries agree that trading territory to placate and appease different ethnic groups and the ambitions of the current US government is not acceptable.
pre 18 godina
Princip....while keeping an open hand to Czech people....no, thank you, I think we have given you enough money by now, probably too much. You have voted for the Radicals (SRS, DSS), so now you live with it and paid for by your own money. EU has got enough of your 'open hands' and not much else, of you not being ready and willing to work on the remedy of your own affairs. The least you can do is to try not to disrupt Western efforts to help the impoverished Kosovo after years of Serbian rule...Are you capable of something positive for a change? Now is the time to show off, thank you. All the Best to all good people anywhere...
pre 18 godina
The latest developments are beyond silly. Its a waste of energy and resources. EU's most powerful and influential contries have recognized Kosova. For gods sakes Mr. Jeremic quit causing storms wherever you go and generate some positive buzz for a change. If you were a member of radical party I could at least sympathize with your position as I would expect nothing positive but you are suppose to be the moderate voice of Serbian people. Is this the best that Serbia can offer the EU and the world. So far empty gestures and total lack of respect. This is why you are position where you deserve to be.
pre 18 godina
Gee - I didn't know that Serbia was a card-carrying member of the European Parliament (EP)!
Oh wait - they are not! And therefore they have absolutely no say in what is admissible or not.
pre 18 godina
“the system envisaged by that document will be implemented on its territory."
- What territory exactly? There is no such UN nor EU recognised territory let alone having the authority to implement any such illegality!
UN SC Resolution 12444 still stands and illegal actions by the indivual countries must be persueed in teh interenational law courts - something that DS and Jeremic seem to have blocked till now - maybe he and DS are starting to comprehend the need for such action. Just like teh Czechs said they hoped thier 'US' forced illegality will not place a strain on relations between Serbia and the Czech goverenment but lets be clear the gripe and illegality is the doing of a "few" within the Czech political circles and Serbia should show some teeth directly at these while keeping an open hand to the Czech people- just like the Russians adviced very wisely "we cant be more Serbian then the Serbs" - its time the Serbian goverenment stood on principle fully and showed the EU that its hand is given out but illegality by the poltical elites will be persued and it is not against the "peoples" or business of those states who have acted illegally but that this must be like any illegal act corrected!
pre 18 godina
Cant wait to see the flags of Disneyland, Narnia, Middle Earth and Never Never Land fluttering in the breeze.
pre 18 godina
This is abosolutely ridiculous! How can they have the nerve to do that? They know that kosovo is not an independent.
What is predominantly disturbing is how in the hell it is possible, that the EU does not recognise kosovo, however, they are pushing to send EULEX to kosovo to implement the so highly praised ahtisaari proposal. That is a back flip up-side-down. How is it they can send a mission to kosovo to monitor the implementation of procedures to allow kosovo independence, yet they do not recognise it as indpendent?
Thats a bit of a brain teaser. Or in common terms, the basic operations and mind thought of the E.U.
pre 18 godina
incident; b92 it was not an incident as it was not a crime, the fact of the matter is Mr Jeremic that Kosova is independant and nothing you say/do will change that...
pre 18 godina
Kosovo is an independent country. The people of Kosovo decided to make Kosovo an independent country.
pre 18 godina
This is the new reality, the new state is there you just need to realize it and have respect.
pre 18 godina
Little Jeremic must be in contact with Mp's from countries that make Eu policy ...but now seems the Kosovars are more in contact...As i always stated no Eu future for Serbia maybe in the long future but..after kosovo (2030)
pre 18 godina
Mr. Tadic & Mr. Jeremic that’s why forget about joining the EU at the moment until the Kosovo issue is resolve. What happen there is really a “in your face” insult to Serbia. Imagine this happen inside the EU parliament
Yes Serbia will gain economically in joining the EU but can Serbia accept the reality that most EU countries look at the country without Kosovo with it. The DS and its cohorts should wake up now and face the truth. do you still want kosoov or for the money from EU
pre 18 godina
Cant wait to see the flags of Disneyland, Narnia, Middle Earth and Never Never Land fluttering in the breeze.
pre 18 godina
Kosovo is an independent country. The people of Kosovo decided to make Kosovo an independent country.
pre 18 godina
Princip....while keeping an open hand to Czech people....no, thank you, I think we have given you enough money by now, probably too much. You have voted for the Radicals (SRS, DSS), so now you live with it and paid for by your own money. EU has got enough of your 'open hands' and not much else, of you not being ready and willing to work on the remedy of your own affairs. The least you can do is to try not to disrupt Western efforts to help the impoverished Kosovo after years of Serbian rule...Are you capable of something positive for a change? Now is the time to show off, thank you. All the Best to all good people anywhere...
pre 18 godina
“the system envisaged by that document will be implemented on its territory."
- What territory exactly? There is no such UN nor EU recognised territory let alone having the authority to implement any such illegality!
UN SC Resolution 12444 still stands and illegal actions by the indivual countries must be persueed in teh interenational law courts - something that DS and Jeremic seem to have blocked till now - maybe he and DS are starting to comprehend the need for such action. Just like teh Czechs said they hoped thier 'US' forced illegality will not place a strain on relations between Serbia and the Czech goverenment but lets be clear the gripe and illegality is the doing of a "few" within the Czech political circles and Serbia should show some teeth directly at these while keeping an open hand to the Czech people- just like the Russians adviced very wisely "we cant be more Serbian then the Serbs" - its time the Serbian goverenment stood on principle fully and showed the EU that its hand is given out but illegality by the poltical elites will be persued and it is not against the "peoples" or business of those states who have acted illegally but that this must be like any illegal act corrected!
pre 18 godina
Kosovo flag??? WHAT A JOKE! Fake flag, fake country, fake attempt at fake history. hitler couldn't steal our KiM from us, neither will america.
pre 18 godina
Mr. Tadic & Mr. Jeremic that’s why forget about joining the EU at the moment until the Kosovo issue is resolve. What happen there is really a “in your face” insult to Serbia. Imagine this happen inside the EU parliament
Yes Serbia will gain economically in joining the EU but can Serbia accept the reality that most EU countries look at the country without Kosovo with it. The DS and its cohorts should wake up now and face the truth. do you still want kosoov or for the money from EU
pre 18 godina
This is not inadmissible display Mr. Jeremic, this is not an incident Dear B92, this is A REALITY.
Kosova is an independent country and therefore it has a flag of its own.
pre 18 godina
incident; b92 it was not an incident as it was not a crime, the fact of the matter is Mr Jeremic that Kosova is independant and nothing you say/do will change that...
pre 18 godina
Gee - I didn't know that Serbia was a card-carrying member of the European Parliament (EP)!
Oh wait - they are not! And therefore they have absolutely no say in what is admissible or not.
pre 18 godina
Nice statistics Maks.... However, the distinct lack of stats concerning UN members (the only body that actually matters) who have recognised the false state in question shows your arguement for what it is.... weak and Euro-centric. There's a big world beyond Europe.
Lest we forget that... 'statistics can prove anything... 68% of all people know that'(Homer Simpson)
pre 18 godina
Jeremić is a fool. The powers within the EU keep humiliating him and his party (the DS) but they still remain loyal and subservient.
This should be a clear message to all those Serbians who believe Kosovo can be protected within the EU. It can't be further from the truth.
There really isn't anything to be upset about here. Kosovo is an EU/US production and they are playing out some make believe scenes within their own little studios because the rest of the world is simply not interested.
Take it as a sign of EU frustration and not progress because they are not getting anywhere. They can't even agree between themselves and are blocked at the UN! The independence movement is dead and you can rest assured, there will never be a "Kosova" flag flying at the UN. That is reserved only for real countries.
Anyway, I searched the internet high and low to finally find a photo of the culprit who put that flag up. And here it is, check http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/fc/Porky_pig.jpg
That's all folks!
pre 18 godina
Gee - I didn't know that Serbia was a card-carrying member of the European Parliament (EP)!
Oh wait - they are not! And therefore they have absolutely no say in what is admissible or not.
(Jan Andersen, DK, 29 May 2008 11:16)
--
Absolutely correct and Serbia should not even be concerned with EU theatrics. But more importantly, since it is not part of it, the EU has absolutely no say over Serbian territory. The last time I checked, the EU is not the UN.
How dissapointed they must be. A whole lot of recognitions leading to nowhere but I suppose they must entertain themselves somehow.
pre 18 godina
The latest developments are beyond silly. Its a waste of energy and resources. EU's most powerful and influential contries have recognized Kosova. For gods sakes Mr. Jeremic quit causing storms wherever you go and generate some positive buzz for a change. If you were a member of radical party I could at least sympathize with your position as I would expect nothing positive but you are suppose to be the moderate voice of Serbian people. Is this the best that Serbia can offer the EU and the world. So far empty gestures and total lack of respect. This is why you are position where you deserve to be.
pre 18 godina
Luigi, I don't believe Jeremic is "Little". He is actually of decent height. Or are you trying to be sarcastic? BTW, why are most pro-Albin commentators here often sarcastic? Can we have a discussion without sarcasm?
As for Kosovo being an independent state, it is not. As much as the EU is using U.S. "strong arm" tactics to force their agenda, it means nothing without UNSC recognition. Their will be NO UN seat, therefore NO independent Kosovo. The law is the law, no matter how you try to re-paint it. You can put lipstick on a pig, and it's still a pig. Kosovo remains Serbian land, no matter what the EU/US is trying to force through.
pre 18 godina
This is abosolutely ridiculous! How can they have the nerve to do that? They know that kosovo is not an independent.
What is predominantly disturbing is how in the hell it is possible, that the EU does not recognise kosovo, however, they are pushing to send EULEX to kosovo to implement the so highly praised ahtisaari proposal. That is a back flip up-side-down. How is it they can send a mission to kosovo to monitor the implementation of procedures to allow kosovo independence, yet they do not recognise it as indpendent?
Thats a bit of a brain teaser. Or in common terms, the basic operations and mind thought of the E.U.
pre 18 godina
don´t worry Ratko,
since neither the actual flag of the republic of Albania is showing original albanian heraldic symbol´s nor that funny new "kosova"-flag...
you can rest calm, since that all is only a kind of "make-up"...
I found it quite amusing to read our albanian friends thoughts about how unimportant and unreal Mr.Jeremic is...
well, yes, my dear albanian friends... that´s all you are reduced to ( besides violence against serbian civilians, of course )
desperately trying to present yourself as kinda cool and cynical... but I´d recommend you to stay calm, since UNSC 1244 is the one and only thing that says it all. and time is on Serbia´s side, so, after Russia, Brasil, China, South Africa...there will be many more countries raising their ( more and more important ) voice
pre 18 godina
Little Jeremic must be in contact with Mp's from countries that make Eu policy ...but now seems the Kosovars are more in contact...As i always stated no Eu future for Serbia maybe in the long future but..after kosovo (2030)
pre 18 godina
Mirek,
the open hand of friendship remians and that is fine if you don't want it - thats your choice!
I am sure your Slovak brothers comprehend how this works sometimes and they went through their phase of learning under Meciar in the 90's and now Today have as part of their governing coalition the Slovak Nationalist Party which the EUcrats whinced and moaned at. Yet, now the Slovaks stand above the Czechs on many development scores and are about to adopt the Euro in advance of yourselves. So Serbia can follow its own path too - through hard work and struggle comes rewards since it is never given and handed out on a plate!!!
Rest assured Serbia under such a SRS-DSS-NS-SPS-PUPS-JS-LS govt will always be happy to allow the Czechs to realise the legal path forward with no recrimination when there 'few ploitical' elites come back to their senses and respect UN resolutions and laws! Till then dont expect things to be luvvy dovvy when you disrespect and act against UN resolutions over Serbia's sovereignity - Serbians are not willing to accept a Mnichovská diktát/Zrada like you might have been - and UN SC resolution 1244 states the oppposite of such a diktat!
Dovi...
pre 18 godina
Kosovo is not a country.
1. International organizations provide political administration.
2. NATO provides security.
3. The UN provides its existence.
4. Economic aid is almost exclusively pumped into the region.
5. It needs powers like the US for legitimacy and to exert political pressure.
By these facts alone, Kosovo is neither an independent state nor a legitimate political entity. It is a colony of the European Union and a US Dependency.
Flying the flag of the EU's most recently acquired piece of real estate does not legitimize its existence as an equal political entity along the lines of other European countries. Rather it shows that the EU has established ownership over the land and is seeking to show its legitmate acquisition at its own functions and conferences.
The day Kosovo can stand up on its own, and be recognized in international bodies like the UN will be the day Kosovo is an independent state. Until then, it is a colony. No more, no less. If the Albanians wish to think it's the world's newest state, that's their business, but without external powers to prop up this parastate, it would collapse in a matter of months.
pre 18 godina
Kosovo is soveriegn Serbian territory. Fortunately most countries agree that trading territory to placate and appease different ethnic groups and the ambitions of the current US government is not acceptable.
pre 18 godina
How is this an incident?
pre 18 godina
This is the new reality, the new state is there you just need to realize it and have respect.
pre 18 godina
EU has again shown it's true face, and it couldn't be more ugly. If EU sends it's illegal troops to Serbian holy ground they will pay the price. Only UNMIK and KFOR has right to be there. Serbia has already tolerated way too much and has not used it's legal right to defend it's borders. Serbia should not take any more sitting down. There comes a time when you need to rise and say enough is enough!
pre 18 godina
"This is an absolutely inadmissible display. Kosovo is not an independent state, the EU has not recognized Kosovo, but a certain number of countries unfortunately have," Foreign Minister Vuk Jeremi� told the Serbian national broadcaster RTS.
��but a certain number of countries unfortunately have��
Serbian FM is normally informed guy �but a certain number of events unfortunately he is not. Let remind him that Kosovo is:
Formally recognized by 20 out of 27 European Union (EU) Member States or 74.07%
Formally recognized by 21 out of 26 NATO Member States or 80.77%
Formally recognized by 29 out of 47 Council of Europe (COE) Member States or 61.7%
Formally recognized by 31 out of 56 OSCE Member States or 55.36%
Mr. Jeremic, get real! Election is over and you lost. Now it's not worth it to pretend you are misinformed.
pre 18 godina
Dear Princip,
> the open hand of friendship remians and that is fine if you don't want it - thats your choice!
I didn't say anything about looking down at Serbs or not wanting to be friends with any friendly nation in the world, just the question is if Serbia really is up to offering anything at the moment, so far it has only been able to accept the help of others (especially the EU) and it is not particularly greatful for it either...
> I am sure your Slovak brothers comprehend how this works sometimes and they went through their phase of learning under Meciar in the 90's
Are you seriously comparing the experience of Slovakia in 1990's with Serbia's ultranationalist SRS, DSS and their past as well as present??? Don't think in case of the SRS, DSS & SPS coalition, leading Serbia to the embrace of your eastern brother Russia (hence maybe the clue why Serbian people voted as they did - Central Europeans don't have a cultural affinity to Russia as you have - take this as you will) you will not be much more isolated than they were...
> Yet, now the Slovaks stand above the Czechs on many development scores and are about to adopt the Euro in advance of yourselves.
Yes, Slovakia will adopt the Euro first. Do you think it must be a positive thing? What about the main reason - a low confidence of Slovak people in their own currency...surely not the case the sooner, the better...let's see. Overall Slovakia is still lagging behind the Czech Republic (GDP, wages, quality of life..you name it...)
> So Serbia can follow its own path too - through hard work and struggle comes rewards since it is never given and handed out on a plate!!!
We (and all the countries of CEE) know that well, it has not been discovered by serbia in 2008:)) We have worked very hard over the past 20 years to get where we are now - in case of Czech Republic being now more developed economically than Portugal for example - do you think someone has given that to us just like that?
> Rest assured Serbia under such a SRS-DSS-NS-SPS-PUPS-JS-LS govt will always be happy to allow the Czechs to realise the legal path forward with no recrimination when there 'few ploitical' elites come back to their senses and respect UN resolutions and laws!
No thank you, we know what we are doing. Funny, feels like a kid is trying to teach it's mum:)))
> Till then dont expect things to be luvvy dovvy when you disrespect and act against UN resolutions over Serbia's sovereignity - Serbians are not willing to accept a Mnichovská diktát/Zrada like you might have been
Who are you that you can DARE to make such a comment??? We have NEVER accepted the betrayal that is TOTALLY incomparable to Kosovo - we have at least never attacked, tortured or killed people in Sudety...get some knowledge before you write such offending comments, please
> and UN SC resolution 1244 states the oppposite of such a diktat!
Don't think so...but if you believe that, good for you
In general, I believe Serbia should stop trying to blame anyone and everyone else for its own failures and try to at least somehow acknowledge the crimes it (it's political 'elites' mainly) has committed (same applies to Russia - hence the 'brotherhood'??) in the 1990's
All the best to all good people
pre 18 godina
"Kosovo remains Serbian land" (nyoutlawyer, 29 May 2008 17:47)
Keep repeating this enough times and it might just happen.
Oh, and Anthony Shelmerdine, I also can't wait to see the flags of "Never Never Land..." Supposedly, you, nyoutlawyer, and all your other friends that believe (backwards) time travel to be feasible, will find yourselves downright at home there.
pre 18 godina
It was not an incident.
Actually only 1 Greek MEP was against the Agenda.
All other MEPs had constructive approach and they were very much informed in details - exept a Romanian MEP bcs everyone laughed at him - Slovenians, Germans, French, Austrians, Britts, Albanians etc.
pre 18 godina
The response of the Serbian government is at this point of time the best and most honest that can be done. It is quite obvious that the (Kosovo) Albanian commentators here and some of their supporters are displaying the usual arrogance which is a direct results of living in denial and in a fake reality in a fake country. Your US and EU masters have displayed unhappiness because the waves of recognitions have stopped, mainly because of a lack of PR which historically is not a part of your culture anyway (being violent, wining for help when you get butt-kicked and intollerance of everything and everybody who is different better describe your thinking and behavior). As long as the UN exists and there is a UNSC with Russia and China you people should get used to the fact that Kosovo is and will be a province of The Republic of Serbia. You let the opportunity go to turn it into an autonomous province again. You all blame Serbia on all your past missery, but it is more accurate to blame all former Yogoslav republics including your own people.
Starting in 1982 and 1983, in response to nationalist Albanian riots in Kosovo, the Central Committee of the SFRY League of Communists adopted a set of conclusions aimed at centralizing Serbia’s control over law enforcement and the judiciary in its Kosovo and Vojvodina provinces. In 1986 Serbian president Ivan Stambolic established a commission to amend the Serbian Constitution inkeeping with conclusions adopted by the federal Communist Party. The constitutional commission worked for three years to harmonize its positions and in 1989 an amended Serbian constitution was submitted to the governments of Kosovo, Vojvodina and Serbia for approval. On March 10, 1989 the Vojvodina Assembly approved the amendments, followed by the Kosovo Assembly on March 23, and the Serbian Assembly on March 28. In the Kosovo Assembly 187 of the 190 assembly members were present when the vote was taken: 10 voted against the amendments, two abstained, and the remaining 175 voted in favor of the amendments.
Enjoy the ride along some of your masters while it lasts.
pre 18 godina
Getter get used to seeing the flag in European institutions. Let's not forget Kosova is independent and can only be represented by it's own flag (not Albanian or Serbian nor UNMIK).
I love it when Jeremic throws a strop like a child and no one cares! He must get frustrated by it.
A reality check needs to take place!
pre 18 godina
Kosovo is entirely dependent upon the EU and the US. Its independence is a sham. It has zero sovereignty. Even its precious flag had to be approved by its foreign masters.
pre 18 godina
Mirek,
- seem to have touched a nerve regarding Mnichovská diktát/Zrada - Seems different when the shoes on your foot dosent it!!!
But now I hope you comprehend the irony of you posting on a Serbian website and telling Serbs;
"EU has got enough of your 'open hands' and not much else, of you not being ready and willing to work on the remedy of your own affairs. The least you can do is to try not to disrupt Western efforts to help the impoverished Kosovo after years of Serbian rule..."
Or even showing up your lack of understanding of International laws and UN SC Resolutions when you cynically and ignorantly suggest;
"> and UN SC resolution 1244 states the oppposite of such a diktat!
Don't think so...but if you believe that, good for you "
Fact remains Kosovo is & remains integral to Serbia as is reaffirmed in UN SC Resolution 1244 - in that respect Czech goverenment are acting illegally in their recognition against this UN resolution - that they cant explain this truthfully to the Czech people is their problem - at least President Klaus fully comprehends as do many more Czechs and hopefully you have a bit more insight too!!
Here is some more insight from a UK aid worker and researcher;
"on a simple crude body count you are wrong. The death toll in Kosovo was in the hundreds before the start of the bombing campaign. It was around 5,000 by the end. Not quite the "genocide" that some people claimed, incidentally, but not a good precedent either.
I was working at Amnesty International during the Kosovo crisis. I first visited refugee camps in Albania and Macedonia during the conflict and then spent a year in Pristina seconded into the UN High Commissioner for Refugees. Tony Blair says that we "reversed ethnic cleansing" there, but I would not count the expulsion of over 100,000 Serbs and Roma from a province guarded by 40,000 Nato troops as a success."
http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/take_two/2007/04/oliver_kamm_v_conor_foley.html
So with a bit more insight Mirek,
the question you need to ask of yourself is who are you or the EUcrats to Diktat and try to shut Serbia out of what remains its internal affairs???
Mirek, just as Smile points out I too am very familiar with public sentiment and have many Czech friends who have a fuller understanding then yourself of this diktát/Zrada that many would like Serbia to accept today such as the same US, UK and France who saw fit to uphold and reaffirm Serbia's soverignty to end their illegal war by formulating and signing and thus being obligated by UN SC Resolution 1244 yet today would dictate otherwise!!!
Well just like the Czech's who did not accept the Mnichovská diktát/Zrada - don't expect the Serbs to accept the same Zrada!!
pre 18 godina
What amuses me about the whole Kosovo situation is that Albanians think that the US and the EU have awarded them with something by supporting their pursuit of independence. Both the EU and the US will always impose the rule of law for all sides involved. US and EU military bases will be built and national laws will be based on EU and US directives, not on what Albanians, or Serbs for that matter, feel is right for Kosovo. Just look at Ireland. They have never allowed abortions in Ireland, but now they are being pressured by the EU to change this law, and believe me it will change. Kosovo is just another example of a weak eastern european territory that will be taken advantage of as the US and the EU build an eastern front to increase military and economic presence on Russia's doorstep, especially with Russia's recent growth in the global economic and political arenas.
pre 18 godina
To Serbs,
Don't expect anything from the UN. The UN is another pork and meet association that we Americans own and pay all its bills. Its purpose is to keep some people in line, there is no such thing as international law because states were, even if it is, Serbia can't argue, states were are and will be created. The republic of Kosovo is an independent and sovereign country.
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"Kosovo remains Serbian land" "Kosovo je Serbija" ...
Do Serbian poster realize how OUTDATED and dogatized these phrases are. Whenever I see this kind of slogans and posts I think that they should be accompanied by phrases such as "Zivela Partija" "Long Live Tito" and other OLD, OLD brainwashing phrases.
You may chose to live in the past. Kosova has chosen the future.
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>> we have filed a fierce diplomatic protest
That will REALLY scare them, Vuk. You show them.
it's Over Serbs. Admit you have treated Albanians horribly and move on. You are no better than us.
>> hitler couldn't steal our KiM from us, neither will america.
Thanks to the allied forces and Tito. Sorry to remind you.
pre 18 godina
"To Serbs,
Don't expect anything from the UN. The UN is another pork and meet association that we Americans own and pay all its bills. Its purpose is to keep some people in line, there is no such thing as international law because states were, even if it is, Serbia can't argue, states were are and will be created. The republic of Kosovo is an independent and sovereign country.
(American, 29 May 2008 19:42)"
Besides your last sentence (that of course is incorrect) we already knew all these facts, but thanks for reminding the world again of the (sad) reality. This will not last forever and maybe you should try to think what your own country will look like in 50 years when you, your children and grand children will be a minority (I assume you are caucasian). The high oil prices and the weak dollar already are starting to take its toll and this is just the beginning. US businesses are cheap to buy these days and the Chinese, Indians, Russians, Arabs, Europeans and so on will buy them, take the technology they need and close the place (similar tactics as you have done for many years in for instance Canada). Fortunately there are still many countries and people who believe in international law and justice will prevail. I just hope you people will be able to overcome the thought of having an African American as president and if not how you and the rest of the world will have to deal with another four years of GWB style politics. Have a nice day.
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Just reading through all the comments here, how many times do the Albanians have to repeat that "Kosova" is independent? It really is like they are attempting to convince someone.
Do we get Montenegrans coming here, day after day, repeating "Montenegro is independent"?
Well, of course we don't because that's the difference between a state that has negotiated independence and one that is made up.
Seriously, you guys need to be lobbying much harder. I went to the Eurodisney site http://www.disneylandparis.com/ and attempted to select this imaginary country called "Kosova" but guess what? It didn't exist!!
I really can't explain my disappiontment.
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since i dont care what eu accepts or rejects i'll just look at one comment here.
marek, nevermind princip, i see he's upset you, but i'll make you feel better. 60 odd years later and the grandchildren of those who 'pragmatically cooperated' to dismember their own country for the greater european good which turned out to be western blindness that led to the worst european nightmare appeasing a monster are still touchy about it? what can i say, there's a great lesson to be learnt from sudentenland case, never betray your country, because that kinda thing is never forgotten and it never goes away.
but marek there's not just you, i also read comments from czechs. they
are with us and understand the magnitude of abominable attempt to break up our country. which by the by we will never sign over ;)
anyway, fine comment marek all round :)) only, it's mother, not brother russia.
that should give you a clue you clearly need. it's mother, that's what we call her.
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smile,
You see life is not so bad. You lost Kosovo but you still have your mother (Russia). So keep smiling smile....
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Touched a nerve there Dardan... ha ha. Clearly the comparison with several 'make-believe' and fictional lands strikes home better than one could possibly have expected.
I think 'time travel' is a little melodramatic. I refer you to the previous ownership dispute over Kosovo and Metohija (i.e. Serbia v's Ottoman Empire... n.b. notice that there isn't a third party in this dispute). Took 500 years to get Kosovo and Metohija back and i would hazard an educated guess that it'll take less than 500 years this time (when one considers the hapless and morally corrupt element in Pristina that Serbia faces today). When your use is expended by your masters. Serbia will roll on back into Kosovo and Metohija.
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(ZK UK, 29 May 2008 21:43)
'Seriously, you guys need to be lobbying much harder. I went to the Eurodisney site [link]/ and attempted to select this imaginary country called "Kosova" but guess what? It didn't exist!! '
ZK UK, of course you wouldn't find it if you were looking for an imaginary country!
I'll tell you about an imaginary country: Greater Serbia! :)
The one you never forgave Milosevic for not achieving!
The one so many of you were willing to murder, ethnically cleanse, rape and torture for.
You also said (for the umpteenth time, by the way - yaaawn):
'Just reading through all the comments here, how many times do the Albanians have to repeat that "Kosova" is independent? It really is like they are attempting to convince someone.
Do we get Montenegrans coming here, day after day, repeating "Montenegro is independent"?'
You could've said:
Just reading through all the comments here, how many times do the Serbs have to repeat that "Kosovo" is Serbia? It really is like they are attempting to convince someone.
Do we get the English coming here, day after day, repeating "Surrey is England"?
Cheers
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Ruben,
As I see you are well informed. The Slovaks have this pro-Serbian position only because of there large Hungarian minority, 10% of the population. Instead of treating them fairly like a civilized European country they discriminate them more and more by taking a page from the Serbian book "How to treat your minorities". I don't think it wise to follow the "Serbian way".
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Kosova is Independent, and that how Europe has declared, To think that China and Russia will do anything about it, That is just plain dreaming. All that we are witnessing is that the Serb goverment is playing to its people yet again.. How silly must have looked in the EU parlament to have flags of protest from Romania, Cyprus Slovakia and Greece, just sad to see Spain in the same club, sure they must think 'how embarassing'..(but we understand).
I am sure there are intelectual Serbs are realising that the matter of Kosova has been concluded, and all what we are seeing now is desparate attempts from Serb goverment trying to prove to its people 'look we are doing everything'..Surely they too realise that its all over, and in a long run it does them more arm than good.
Hate to be in their shoes....
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Joe, I'm not out to put any spin or any negativity on Kosovo, nor am I interested in degrading entire ethnic races like you do. My argument is simply based on a matter of the definition of sovereignty, and Kosovo Province today lack all of the qualifications that make it an independent state. I'm perfectly happy to let Kosovo be a EU mandate for the indefinite future. Lord knows Serbia is better off having this albatross taken off its neck. But to imply it's a state equal in stature to Serbia, Germany, or Montenegro, is plain wrong. I don't even need to resort to the CCCC rhetoric many use here. I don't follow it, and I don't need to use it to prove my point.
And having powerful and rich supporters is even more meaningless than the labels I ascribe to the region. That money is never going to the people on the ground - only a small group of elites in Pristina who are paid to remain loyal to Washington. You know the Cold War tactics our country played with rouge states and banana republics. The State Department's playbook hasn't been updated in decades.
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"Greece, Spain, Cyprus, Slovakia, and Romania..."
Can someone from the Serbian panel enlighten me what is the population of all these countries all together that can block the will of the rest of the EU?
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Mike,
It does not make the slightest difference how you label Kosovo. Even if you put on the most negative label the K-Albanians are the winners and Serbia is the big loser. The K-Albanians are out of the iron grip of Serbia (to put it very mildly) since 1999 and that is the most important thing. They have powerful and rich supporters, who will help them for a very long time at the great displeasure of the Serbs. Becoming fully independent and a UN member at this time is secondary.
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Ben, you sound like the Ottoman Empire all over again. Are you suggesting that just because the Albanian birth rate far outnumbers other ethnic groups, those areas should be part of Albania? Should Montenegro be part of Albania too since the Albanian population is the majority? In the future, when the Albanian population outnumbers others in surrounding countries, should all of those areas be part of Albania? Don't forget, Kosovo was 50/50 Albanian/Serbian during WWII. Majority populations should never dictate independence. Should most of the Western US become part of Mexico just because they now have a majority Mexican population. I think not. Blerimi, don't worry, Albanians will one day realize that they had much more freedom under Serbia than they will ever have under the umbrella of the EU and the US. It will be too late though.
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"This is an absolutely inadmissible display. Kosovo is not an independent state, .."
Don't worry Jeremic and other Serbs.
It was a dream- or nightmaare - up to you the judgment;))
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Great response by Mirek.
Had to smile when I saw the other posters refer to the Slovaks as brothers.
It is certainly not out of brotherhood that Slovakia is keeping a pro-Serbian position.
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Blerimi,
As I've said before, it does not matter who we think Kosovo belongs to. Once international forces entered in 1999, we all knew that they will never leave, just like the same forces will never leave Bosnia or Afghanistan. The day to day operations within Kosovo will not change just because a different flag flies or because someone else is officially named the president of a new state. Your dreams of independence and freedom will be short lived. The people of Kosovo, both Serbs and Albanians, will learn that having foreign parties approve all political, economic, and state security matters will over time result in the loss of cultural and religious identity for everyone involved. As far as a greater Serbia goes, what is the difference between a greater Serbia and a greater Albania when Kosovo is discussed? They sound the same to me. Check online and you will find many more maps of a Greater Albania than maps of Greater Serbia.
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USA
We live in a world of interdependence. One can argue than no country is truly independent in a globalising age. The credit crunch in the US affects mortgages in the UK, the Wall Street crash in the 1920s had a devastating effect on the Balkan states's economies...
We (Albanians)are perfectly aware that as a small country will never be completely independent. What we have been seeking, however, is independence from Serbia. Independence to us means freedom. Freedom from persecution and discrimination.
The fact that you find more Greater Albania than Greater Serbia maps online does not tell you anything. The truth is, during the 1980s (and even before and certainly after) you could find more Greater Albania maps in Belgrade and Skopje than in Tirana and Prishtina. The idea has no significant backing and has never really had, at least in the last forty years. It has never been pursued either by official Tirana or Prishtina.
Greater Serbia, however, has been pursued by official Belgrade and its brain, the SANU.
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Ben,
1. According to country-data.com and Unicef, Kosovo had the highest birth rate in Europe (29 births per thousand) as of 1988.
2. You are correct. I was referring to the neighboring regions of Albania in Macedonia where the Albanian population is a majority. Based on your comments in 5 and 6 below, are you implying that these areas are part of Albania too just because Albanians are the majority? If this were always true, then parts of Bosnia and Croatia that were majority Serb or Muslim prior to the wars in the 1990’s should have become part of Serbia or part of an independent state, but instead were cleansed by mostly Croatian forces from these areas.
3. Part of my comment in 4 below will address this false claim. Also, if the majority of the Kosovo population was always Albanian, who were the occupying Turks fighting during the 14th century? History says Serbs, not Albanians. If the majority were Albanian, then Albanians would have fought the Turks to defend their country. According to the CIA website, Albanians didn’t replace Serbs as the majority population until the late 19th century.
4. According to infoplease.com, Illyrians first inhabited this area, then Slavs in the 6th and 7th centuries, followed by Albanians in the 8th century, so Serbs were in Kosovo first.
5. No need to comment. This has no relevance to independence.
6. Refer to comment 4 above. Other ethnic groups were there first.
7. No need to comment. There is no such thing as a greater Serbia or greater Albania.
With regards to the Bush comment, Bush is doing what is in the best interest of the US, not for you or for anyone else in Kosovo or Albania. Why would the US be so interested in countries that are some of the poorest and least developed areas in all of Europe? It is all strategic in creating a military presence to counter Russian successes in the past 10 years.
By the way, I am not Serbian or Albanian, but I have done enough research in the past 10 years to understand the demographics and politics in the region. It is now time for a lot of misinformation to be brought to the forefront so that people all over the world are no longer deceived by media that is significantly influenced by lobby groups in Washington. Millions and millions of dollars have been given by Albanians to lobby groups so that these lies are propagated on television, in newspapers, and in academic institutions. I invite all those who have not done their own independent research to do so and learn the truth, rather than blindly listen to the media, as many have done over the past 10-15 years.
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Check online and you will find many more maps of a Greater Albania than maps of Greater Serbia.
(USA, 30 May 2008 15:48)
you are right USA
we are drawing maps and Serbs are much more concree they start wars- Croatia, Bosnia, Kosova... and much more
we draw maps of the lands where Albanians effectively make the overwhelm majority of population (no need for Srebrenica) and bizarrely call it Great Albania- what a naivety- instead of callng it simply Albania. that's what it is.
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Anthony Shelmerdine, All those flags you mentioned CAN beseen displayed in one place. It's called Michael Jackson's back yard.
This makes Michael the rightful ruler of an imaginary world which Kosovo belongs to. So don't be surprised if there is a new addition to that world, the new flag of Kosovo.
Now let's get beack to reality. Those law abiding countries which don't recognize the illegal UDI should not sign anything put in front of them concerning any territorial integrity regarding Kosovo unless it clearly states that Kosovo is Seriban.
If EP cannot get all their members to sign it cannot implement their wishes.
But wait, didn't that happen and Kosovo was not recognized by the EU?
pre 18 godina
People why you make such a big deal out of foreign factors, thats so simple, 2 MILION people, president, prime minister, national assambley, doctors, archtiects, lawyers, economists, workers, school kids, pensionists, criminals, gangs, drug dealers, homeles people, nobody in Kosova wants even a shadow of Serbia, even animals cows, sheeps, goats, dog and cats, even plant's trees, grass, flowers, nothing here wants STATE OF SERBIA and never will, we want to be Free, ist not about forigners is not about individuals, its about all whats Kosova is made of!
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Dear USA,
“According to infoplease.com, Illyrians first inhabited this area, then Slavs in the 6th and 7th centuries, followed by Albanians in the 8th century, so Serbs were in Kosovo first”
Ironically you have stated latter that you have made a lot of research in the last 10 years and you are offering us the truth. I checked the website infoplease.com which you are referring to and that is what I found there: http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/world/A0856541.html
“After the division (395) of the Roman Empire, Albania passed to Byzantium. While nominally (until 1347) under Byzantine rule, N Albania was invaded (7th cent.) by the Serbs..”
“…aftermath of the Treaty of San Stefano (1877), which Russia imposed on the Turks and which gave large parts of Albania to the Balkan Slavic nations…”
I think I don’t need to talk longer as the facts are here and can be verified easily. Please don’t be a toy of Serbian propaganda which is the dirtiest I have seen in the history. We don’t hate any human race, on contrary we want to live in peace with all neighbours by treating each other equally and not like Serbs and Greeks as greater nations of Good. You have made research but I have lived with them in an academic society.
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Endri
Whilst its great to go back as far as one likes to find who owns what, there is little doubt that Kosovo was a turning point in the nation of Serbia. However you must also realise by these silly points, that Scandinavian countries (Vikings) or Germany (Germanic tribes) could lay claim to the UK, or even Scotland, which tribe was first? Celts? Oh dear.
Serbs could also say they owned Bosnia, northern Greece etc at one point as well prior to the Turkish invasion. The creation of countries and respect of sovereignty was done to prevent wars on the scale of WW2 or return to feudal land grabs. The only consistency with Yugoslavia is that it has never been the case since its break up. The internal borders that changed under Tito were never recognised until it suited various powers during Yugoslavian break up. Kosovo was part of Serbia longer than when it was not.
Or shall we re-draw borders all over the world as soon as a group becomes unhappy?
Maybe you would not mind the Greeks to remove the Albanians from Albania? Or even Italy (Romans) if you want to go back in time? Hell lets go and remove the Turks back to Asia.
Maybe the previous owner of my house can come and claim it back for free too?
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don´t worry Ratko,
since neither the actual flag of the republic of Albania is showing original albanian heraldic symbol´s nor that funny new "kosova"-flag...
you can rest calm, since that all is only a kind of "make-up"...
Hey Jovan
Please tell us which are the real heraldic symbols of The Republic of Albania.
For your curiosity I have a book of "Albanian heraldic emblemata".Can you please share your information (if you have any) with us?
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1. teh birth-rate of ALL nations in Balkans and Europe before the industrialization was the SAME
2. Albanians are not majority in Montenegro (are majority only in the are bordering Montenegro with Albania)
3. Kosova was NEVER 50-50. It was always overwhelm majority of Albanians
4. Albanians are autochthon- Slavs are not. They came in Balknas in VII century. (see the conflict of the name Macedonia/Greece)
5. the lands were Albanians live are compact and continuous
6. the parts that are not in teh today’s Albania is because they were occupied
7. pls. comment a word on the Great Serbia issue – be balanced
Hope I am clearer now
P.S. bizarre for G.W. Bush to have such stance on Kosova issue- since I guess only he has the legitimacy to sign US he got the legitimacy in elections- Americans elected him to represent America- and you? Where do you get your legitimacy USA???
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So other than make as much trouble as you can, even if that's not very much, what do you propose to do about Kosovo?
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Mirek,
just so you understand that many in Czech are not so easily deceived as yourself heres a programme that has convienently been blocked from being aired on Czech state TV - watch and learn from your fellow Czech (and excellent I might add) film producers;
Uloupene Kosovo
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4554948078128880143&
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Endri,
I have lived with them too and have found no basis for what so many others claim. Like I said, I have come to my conclusions from independent research and not propaganda. In fact, as I was researching these issues from non-Serbian or Albanian sources, it was clear to me that Serbs had no propaganda whatsoever, especially in the West. Once I was convinced of my positions from what I have read and listened to, I was astonished that Serbs never had enough organization and initiative to further their own cause. It was obvious to me that Serbs honestly believed that other countries and cultures throughout the world would recognize justice and reality, but were surprised when civilized and sophisticated societies like the US came under the influence of mega dollars and their own personal interests. Again, I would encourage everyone to conduct their own independent research and not blindly take in everything that is transmitted by international media outlets.
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(Michael Blairsdale, 31 May 2008 21:44)
Michel teh one that wanted to remove others were teh Serbs that wanted to renove Albanians form Kosov a just 8 year s ago. You do remeber this?
So all what you say makes litle sense.
If you go back you will find again teh same Slavs form north that try to remove the Nativs in south.
USA give a concrete comment on what Endri posted- not genreal leftists positions.
pre 18 godina
This is the new reality, the new state is there you just need to realize it and have respect.
pre 18 godina
Kosovo is an independent country. The people of Kosovo decided to make Kosovo an independent country.
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>> we have filed a fierce diplomatic protest
That will REALLY scare them, Vuk. You show them.
it's Over Serbs. Admit you have treated Albanians horribly and move on. You are no better than us.
>> hitler couldn't steal our KiM from us, neither will america.
Thanks to the allied forces and Tito. Sorry to remind you.
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This is not inadmissible display Mr. Jeremic, this is not an incident Dear B92, this is A REALITY.
Kosova is an independent country and therefore it has a flag of its own.
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"This is an absolutely inadmissible display. Kosovo is not an independent state, the EU has not recognized Kosovo, but a certain number of countries unfortunately have," Foreign Minister Vuk Jeremi� told the Serbian national broadcaster RTS.
��but a certain number of countries unfortunately have��
Serbian FM is normally informed guy �but a certain number of events unfortunately he is not. Let remind him that Kosovo is:
Formally recognized by 20 out of 27 European Union (EU) Member States or 74.07%
Formally recognized by 21 out of 26 NATO Member States or 80.77%
Formally recognized by 29 out of 47 Council of Europe (COE) Member States or 61.7%
Formally recognized by 31 out of 56 OSCE Member States or 55.36%
Mr. Jeremic, get real! Election is over and you lost. Now it's not worth it to pretend you are misinformed.
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The latest developments are beyond silly. Its a waste of energy and resources. EU's most powerful and influential contries have recognized Kosova. For gods sakes Mr. Jeremic quit causing storms wherever you go and generate some positive buzz for a change. If you were a member of radical party I could at least sympathize with your position as I would expect nothing positive but you are suppose to be the moderate voice of Serbian people. Is this the best that Serbia can offer the EU and the world. So far empty gestures and total lack of respect. This is why you are position where you deserve to be.
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Getter get used to seeing the flag in European institutions. Let's not forget Kosova is independent and can only be represented by it's own flag (not Albanian or Serbian nor UNMIK).
I love it when Jeremic throws a strop like a child and no one cares! He must get frustrated by it.
A reality check needs to take place!
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Kosovo flag??? WHAT A JOKE! Fake flag, fake country, fake attempt at fake history. hitler couldn't steal our KiM from us, neither will america.
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Little Jeremic must be in contact with Mp's from countries that make Eu policy ...but now seems the Kosovars are more in contact...As i always stated no Eu future for Serbia maybe in the long future but..after kosovo (2030)
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incident; b92 it was not an incident as it was not a crime, the fact of the matter is Mr Jeremic that Kosova is independant and nothing you say/do will change that...
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Gee - I didn't know that Serbia was a card-carrying member of the European Parliament (EP)!
Oh wait - they are not! And therefore they have absolutely no say in what is admissible or not.
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Princip....while keeping an open hand to Czech people....no, thank you, I think we have given you enough money by now, probably too much. You have voted for the Radicals (SRS, DSS), so now you live with it and paid for by your own money. EU has got enough of your 'open hands' and not much else, of you not being ready and willing to work on the remedy of your own affairs. The least you can do is to try not to disrupt Western efforts to help the impoverished Kosovo after years of Serbian rule...Are you capable of something positive for a change? Now is the time to show off, thank you. All the Best to all good people anywhere...
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It was not an incident.
Actually only 1 Greek MEP was against the Agenda.
All other MEPs had constructive approach and they were very much informed in details - exept a Romanian MEP bcs everyone laughed at him - Slovenians, Germans, French, Austrians, Britts, Albanians etc.
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Kosovo is soveriegn Serbian territory. Fortunately most countries agree that trading territory to placate and appease different ethnic groups and the ambitions of the current US government is not acceptable.
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Dear Princip,
> the open hand of friendship remians and that is fine if you don't want it - thats your choice!
I didn't say anything about looking down at Serbs or not wanting to be friends with any friendly nation in the world, just the question is if Serbia really is up to offering anything at the moment, so far it has only been able to accept the help of others (especially the EU) and it is not particularly greatful for it either...
> I am sure your Slovak brothers comprehend how this works sometimes and they went through their phase of learning under Meciar in the 90's
Are you seriously comparing the experience of Slovakia in 1990's with Serbia's ultranationalist SRS, DSS and their past as well as present??? Don't think in case of the SRS, DSS & SPS coalition, leading Serbia to the embrace of your eastern brother Russia (hence maybe the clue why Serbian people voted as they did - Central Europeans don't have a cultural affinity to Russia as you have - take this as you will) you will not be much more isolated than they were...
> Yet, now the Slovaks stand above the Czechs on many development scores and are about to adopt the Euro in advance of yourselves.
Yes, Slovakia will adopt the Euro first. Do you think it must be a positive thing? What about the main reason - a low confidence of Slovak people in their own currency...surely not the case the sooner, the better...let's see. Overall Slovakia is still lagging behind the Czech Republic (GDP, wages, quality of life..you name it...)
> So Serbia can follow its own path too - through hard work and struggle comes rewards since it is never given and handed out on a plate!!!
We (and all the countries of CEE) know that well, it has not been discovered by serbia in 2008:)) We have worked very hard over the past 20 years to get where we are now - in case of Czech Republic being now more developed economically than Portugal for example - do you think someone has given that to us just like that?
> Rest assured Serbia under such a SRS-DSS-NS-SPS-PUPS-JS-LS govt will always be happy to allow the Czechs to realise the legal path forward with no recrimination when there 'few ploitical' elites come back to their senses and respect UN resolutions and laws!
No thank you, we know what we are doing. Funny, feels like a kid is trying to teach it's mum:)))
> Till then dont expect things to be luvvy dovvy when you disrespect and act against UN resolutions over Serbia's sovereignity - Serbians are not willing to accept a Mnichovská diktát/Zrada like you might have been
Who are you that you can DARE to make such a comment??? We have NEVER accepted the betrayal that is TOTALLY incomparable to Kosovo - we have at least never attacked, tortured or killed people in Sudety...get some knowledge before you write such offending comments, please
> and UN SC resolution 1244 states the oppposite of such a diktat!
Don't think so...but if you believe that, good for you
In general, I believe Serbia should stop trying to blame anyone and everyone else for its own failures and try to at least somehow acknowledge the crimes it (it's political 'elites' mainly) has committed (same applies to Russia - hence the 'brotherhood'??) in the 1990's
All the best to all good people
pre 18 godina
To Serbs,
Don't expect anything from the UN. The UN is another pork and meet association that we Americans own and pay all its bills. Its purpose is to keep some people in line, there is no such thing as international law because states were, even if it is, Serbia can't argue, states were are and will be created. The republic of Kosovo is an independent and sovereign country.
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Kosova is Independent, and that how Europe has declared, To think that China and Russia will do anything about it, That is just plain dreaming. All that we are witnessing is that the Serb goverment is playing to its people yet again.. How silly must have looked in the EU parlament to have flags of protest from Romania, Cyprus Slovakia and Greece, just sad to see Spain in the same club, sure they must think 'how embarassing'..(but we understand).
I am sure there are intelectual Serbs are realising that the matter of Kosova has been concluded, and all what we are seeing now is desparate attempts from Serb goverment trying to prove to its people 'look we are doing everything'..Surely they too realise that its all over, and in a long run it does them more arm than good.
Hate to be in their shoes....
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“the system envisaged by that document will be implemented on its territory."
- What territory exactly? There is no such UN nor EU recognised territory let alone having the authority to implement any such illegality!
UN SC Resolution 12444 still stands and illegal actions by the indivual countries must be persueed in teh interenational law courts - something that DS and Jeremic seem to have blocked till now - maybe he and DS are starting to comprehend the need for such action. Just like teh Czechs said they hoped thier 'US' forced illegality will not place a strain on relations between Serbia and the Czech goverenment but lets be clear the gripe and illegality is the doing of a "few" within the Czech political circles and Serbia should show some teeth directly at these while keeping an open hand to the Czech people- just like the Russians adviced very wisely "we cant be more Serbian then the Serbs" - its time the Serbian goverenment stood on principle fully and showed the EU that its hand is given out but illegality by the poltical elites will be persued and it is not against the "peoples" or business of those states who have acted illegally but that this must be like any illegal act corrected!
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Jeremić is a fool. The powers within the EU keep humiliating him and his party (the DS) but they still remain loyal and subservient.
This should be a clear message to all those Serbians who believe Kosovo can be protected within the EU. It can't be further from the truth.
There really isn't anything to be upset about here. Kosovo is an EU/US production and they are playing out some make believe scenes within their own little studios because the rest of the world is simply not interested.
Take it as a sign of EU frustration and not progress because they are not getting anywhere. They can't even agree between themselves and are blocked at the UN! The independence movement is dead and you can rest assured, there will never be a "Kosova" flag flying at the UN. That is reserved only for real countries.
Anyway, I searched the internet high and low to finally find a photo of the culprit who put that flag up. And here it is, check http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/fc/Porky_pig.jpg
That's all folks!
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"Kosovo remains Serbian land" (nyoutlawyer, 29 May 2008 17:47)
Keep repeating this enough times and it might just happen.
Oh, and Anthony Shelmerdine, I also can't wait to see the flags of "Never Never Land..." Supposedly, you, nyoutlawyer, and all your other friends that believe (backwards) time travel to be feasible, will find yourselves downright at home there.
pre 18 godina
How is this an incident?
pre 18 godina
"Greece, Spain, Cyprus, Slovakia, and Romania..."
Can someone from the Serbian panel enlighten me what is the population of all these countries all together that can block the will of the rest of the EU?
pre 18 godina
People why you make such a big deal out of foreign factors, thats so simple, 2 MILION people, president, prime minister, national assambley, doctors, archtiects, lawyers, economists, workers, school kids, pensionists, criminals, gangs, drug dealers, homeles people, nobody in Kosova wants even a shadow of Serbia, even animals cows, sheeps, goats, dog and cats, even plant's trees, grass, flowers, nothing here wants STATE OF SERBIA and never will, we want to be Free, ist not about forigners is not about individuals, its about all whats Kosova is made of!
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(ZK UK, 29 May 2008 21:43)
'Seriously, you guys need to be lobbying much harder. I went to the Eurodisney site [link]/ and attempted to select this imaginary country called "Kosova" but guess what? It didn't exist!! '
ZK UK, of course you wouldn't find it if you were looking for an imaginary country!
I'll tell you about an imaginary country: Greater Serbia! :)
The one you never forgave Milosevic for not achieving!
The one so many of you were willing to murder, ethnically cleanse, rape and torture for.
You also said (for the umpteenth time, by the way - yaaawn):
'Just reading through all the comments here, how many times do the Albanians have to repeat that "Kosova" is independent? It really is like they are attempting to convince someone.
Do we get Montenegrans coming here, day after day, repeating "Montenegro is independent"?'
You could've said:
Just reading through all the comments here, how many times do the Serbs have to repeat that "Kosovo" is Serbia? It really is like they are attempting to convince someone.
Do we get the English coming here, day after day, repeating "Surrey is England"?
Cheers
pre 18 godina
This is abosolutely ridiculous! How can they have the nerve to do that? They know that kosovo is not an independent.
What is predominantly disturbing is how in the hell it is possible, that the EU does not recognise kosovo, however, they are pushing to send EULEX to kosovo to implement the so highly praised ahtisaari proposal. That is a back flip up-side-down. How is it they can send a mission to kosovo to monitor the implementation of procedures to allow kosovo independence, yet they do not recognise it as indpendent?
Thats a bit of a brain teaser. Or in common terms, the basic operations and mind thought of the E.U.
pre 18 godina
Mirek,
the open hand of friendship remians and that is fine if you don't want it - thats your choice!
I am sure your Slovak brothers comprehend how this works sometimes and they went through their phase of learning under Meciar in the 90's and now Today have as part of their governing coalition the Slovak Nationalist Party which the EUcrats whinced and moaned at. Yet, now the Slovaks stand above the Czechs on many development scores and are about to adopt the Euro in advance of yourselves. So Serbia can follow its own path too - through hard work and struggle comes rewards since it is never given and handed out on a plate!!!
Rest assured Serbia under such a SRS-DSS-NS-SPS-PUPS-JS-LS govt will always be happy to allow the Czechs to realise the legal path forward with no recrimination when there 'few ploitical' elites come back to their senses and respect UN resolutions and laws! Till then dont expect things to be luvvy dovvy when you disrespect and act against UN resolutions over Serbia's sovereignity - Serbians are not willing to accept a Mnichovská diktát/Zrada like you might have been - and UN SC resolution 1244 states the oppposite of such a diktat!
Dovi...
pre 18 godina
"Kosovo remains Serbian land" "Kosovo je Serbija" ...
Do Serbian poster realize how OUTDATED and dogatized these phrases are. Whenever I see this kind of slogans and posts I think that they should be accompanied by phrases such as "Zivela Partija" "Long Live Tito" and other OLD, OLD brainwashing phrases.
You may chose to live in the past. Kosova has chosen the future.
pre 18 godina
smile,
You see life is not so bad. You lost Kosovo but you still have your mother (Russia). So keep smiling smile....
pre 18 godina
Ruben,
As I see you are well informed. The Slovaks have this pro-Serbian position only because of there large Hungarian minority, 10% of the population. Instead of treating them fairly like a civilized European country they discriminate them more and more by taking a page from the Serbian book "How to treat your minorities". I don't think it wise to follow the "Serbian way".
pre 18 godina
Check online and you will find many more maps of a Greater Albania than maps of Greater Serbia.
(USA, 30 May 2008 15:48)
you are right USA
we are drawing maps and Serbs are much more concree they start wars- Croatia, Bosnia, Kosova... and much more
we draw maps of the lands where Albanians effectively make the overwhelm majority of population (no need for Srebrenica) and bizarrely call it Great Albania- what a naivety- instead of callng it simply Albania. that's what it is.
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"This is an absolutely inadmissible display. Kosovo is not an independent state, .."
Don't worry Jeremic and other Serbs.
It was a dream- or nightmaare - up to you the judgment;))
pre 18 godina
USA
We live in a world of interdependence. One can argue than no country is truly independent in a globalising age. The credit crunch in the US affects mortgages in the UK, the Wall Street crash in the 1920s had a devastating effect on the Balkan states's economies...
We (Albanians)are perfectly aware that as a small country will never be completely independent. What we have been seeking, however, is independence from Serbia. Independence to us means freedom. Freedom from persecution and discrimination.
The fact that you find more Greater Albania than Greater Serbia maps online does not tell you anything. The truth is, during the 1980s (and even before and certainly after) you could find more Greater Albania maps in Belgrade and Skopje than in Tirana and Prishtina. The idea has no significant backing and has never really had, at least in the last forty years. It has never been pursued either by official Tirana or Prishtina.
Greater Serbia, however, has been pursued by official Belgrade and its brain, the SANU.
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don´t worry Ratko,
since neither the actual flag of the republic of Albania is showing original albanian heraldic symbol´s nor that funny new "kosova"-flag...
you can rest calm, since that all is only a kind of "make-up"...
I found it quite amusing to read our albanian friends thoughts about how unimportant and unreal Mr.Jeremic is...
well, yes, my dear albanian friends... that´s all you are reduced to ( besides violence against serbian civilians, of course )
desperately trying to present yourself as kinda cool and cynical... but I´d recommend you to stay calm, since UNSC 1244 is the one and only thing that says it all. and time is on Serbia´s side, so, after Russia, Brasil, China, South Africa...there will be many more countries raising their ( more and more important ) voice
pre 18 godina
Just reading through all the comments here, how many times do the Albanians have to repeat that "Kosova" is independent? It really is like they are attempting to convince someone.
Do we get Montenegrans coming here, day after day, repeating "Montenegro is independent"?
Well, of course we don't because that's the difference between a state that has negotiated independence and one that is made up.
Seriously, you guys need to be lobbying much harder. I went to the Eurodisney site http://www.disneylandparis.com/ and attempted to select this imaginary country called "Kosova" but guess what? It didn't exist!!
I really can't explain my disappiontment.
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Mike,
It does not make the slightest difference how you label Kosovo. Even if you put on the most negative label the K-Albanians are the winners and Serbia is the big loser. The K-Albanians are out of the iron grip of Serbia (to put it very mildly) since 1999 and that is the most important thing. They have powerful and rich supporters, who will help them for a very long time at the great displeasure of the Serbs. Becoming fully independent and a UN member at this time is secondary.
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Mr. Tadic & Mr. Jeremic that’s why forget about joining the EU at the moment until the Kosovo issue is resolve. What happen there is really a “in your face” insult to Serbia. Imagine this happen inside the EU parliament
Yes Serbia will gain economically in joining the EU but can Serbia accept the reality that most EU countries look at the country without Kosovo with it. The DS and its cohorts should wake up now and face the truth. do you still want kosoov or for the money from EU
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Nice statistics Maks.... However, the distinct lack of stats concerning UN members (the only body that actually matters) who have recognised the false state in question shows your arguement for what it is.... weak and Euro-centric. There's a big world beyond Europe.
Lest we forget that... 'statistics can prove anything... 68% of all people know that'(Homer Simpson)
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don´t worry Ratko,
since neither the actual flag of the republic of Albania is showing original albanian heraldic symbol´s nor that funny new "kosova"-flag...
you can rest calm, since that all is only a kind of "make-up"...
Hey Jovan
Please tell us which are the real heraldic symbols of The Republic of Albania.
For your curiosity I have a book of "Albanian heraldic emblemata".Can you please share your information (if you have any) with us?
pre 18 godina
1. teh birth-rate of ALL nations in Balkans and Europe before the industrialization was the SAME
2. Albanians are not majority in Montenegro (are majority only in the are bordering Montenegro with Albania)
3. Kosova was NEVER 50-50. It was always overwhelm majority of Albanians
4. Albanians are autochthon- Slavs are not. They came in Balknas in VII century. (see the conflict of the name Macedonia/Greece)
5. the lands were Albanians live are compact and continuous
6. the parts that are not in teh today’s Albania is because they were occupied
7. pls. comment a word on the Great Serbia issue – be balanced
Hope I am clearer now
P.S. bizarre for G.W. Bush to have such stance on Kosova issue- since I guess only he has the legitimacy to sign US he got the legitimacy in elections- Americans elected him to represent America- and you? Where do you get your legitimacy USA???
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So other than make as much trouble as you can, even if that's not very much, what do you propose to do about Kosovo?
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Dear USA,
“According to infoplease.com, Illyrians first inhabited this area, then Slavs in the 6th and 7th centuries, followed by Albanians in the 8th century, so Serbs were in Kosovo first”
Ironically you have stated latter that you have made a lot of research in the last 10 years and you are offering us the truth. I checked the website infoplease.com which you are referring to and that is what I found there: http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/world/A0856541.html
“After the division (395) of the Roman Empire, Albania passed to Byzantium. While nominally (until 1347) under Byzantine rule, N Albania was invaded (7th cent.) by the Serbs..”
“…aftermath of the Treaty of San Stefano (1877), which Russia imposed on the Turks and which gave large parts of Albania to the Balkan Slavic nations…”
I think I don’t need to talk longer as the facts are here and can be verified easily. Please don’t be a toy of Serbian propaganda which is the dirtiest I have seen in the history. We don’t hate any human race, on contrary we want to live in peace with all neighbours by treating each other equally and not like Serbs and Greeks as greater nations of Good. You have made research but I have lived with them in an academic society.
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Gee - I didn't know that Serbia was a card-carrying member of the European Parliament (EP)!
Oh wait - they are not! And therefore they have absolutely no say in what is admissible or not.
(Jan Andersen, DK, 29 May 2008 11:16)
--
Absolutely correct and Serbia should not even be concerned with EU theatrics. But more importantly, since it is not part of it, the EU has absolutely no say over Serbian territory. The last time I checked, the EU is not the UN.
How dissapointed they must be. A whole lot of recognitions leading to nowhere but I suppose they must entertain themselves somehow.
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The response of the Serbian government is at this point of time the best and most honest that can be done. It is quite obvious that the (Kosovo) Albanian commentators here and some of their supporters are displaying the usual arrogance which is a direct results of living in denial and in a fake reality in a fake country. Your US and EU masters have displayed unhappiness because the waves of recognitions have stopped, mainly because of a lack of PR which historically is not a part of your culture anyway (being violent, wining for help when you get butt-kicked and intollerance of everything and everybody who is different better describe your thinking and behavior). As long as the UN exists and there is a UNSC with Russia and China you people should get used to the fact that Kosovo is and will be a province of The Republic of Serbia. You let the opportunity go to turn it into an autonomous province again. You all blame Serbia on all your past missery, but it is more accurate to blame all former Yogoslav republics including your own people.
Starting in 1982 and 1983, in response to nationalist Albanian riots in Kosovo, the Central Committee of the SFRY League of Communists adopted a set of conclusions aimed at centralizing Serbia’s control over law enforcement and the judiciary in its Kosovo and Vojvodina provinces. In 1986 Serbian president Ivan Stambolic established a commission to amend the Serbian Constitution inkeeping with conclusions adopted by the federal Communist Party. The constitutional commission worked for three years to harmonize its positions and in 1989 an amended Serbian constitution was submitted to the governments of Kosovo, Vojvodina and Serbia for approval. On March 10, 1989 the Vojvodina Assembly approved the amendments, followed by the Kosovo Assembly on March 23, and the Serbian Assembly on March 28. In the Kosovo Assembly 187 of the 190 assembly members were present when the vote was taken: 10 voted against the amendments, two abstained, and the remaining 175 voted in favor of the amendments.
Enjoy the ride along some of your masters while it lasts.
pre 18 godina
Great response by Mirek.
Had to smile when I saw the other posters refer to the Slovaks as brothers.
It is certainly not out of brotherhood that Slovakia is keeping a pro-Serbian position.
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Mirek,
- seem to have touched a nerve regarding Mnichovská diktát/Zrada - Seems different when the shoes on your foot dosent it!!!
But now I hope you comprehend the irony of you posting on a Serbian website and telling Serbs;
"EU has got enough of your 'open hands' and not much else, of you not being ready and willing to work on the remedy of your own affairs. The least you can do is to try not to disrupt Western efforts to help the impoverished Kosovo after years of Serbian rule..."
Or even showing up your lack of understanding of International laws and UN SC Resolutions when you cynically and ignorantly suggest;
"> and UN SC resolution 1244 states the oppposite of such a diktat!
Don't think so...but if you believe that, good for you "
Fact remains Kosovo is & remains integral to Serbia as is reaffirmed in UN SC Resolution 1244 - in that respect Czech goverenment are acting illegally in their recognition against this UN resolution - that they cant explain this truthfully to the Czech people is their problem - at least President Klaus fully comprehends as do many more Czechs and hopefully you have a bit more insight too!!
Here is some more insight from a UK aid worker and researcher;
"on a simple crude body count you are wrong. The death toll in Kosovo was in the hundreds before the start of the bombing campaign. It was around 5,000 by the end. Not quite the "genocide" that some people claimed, incidentally, but not a good precedent either.
I was working at Amnesty International during the Kosovo crisis. I first visited refugee camps in Albania and Macedonia during the conflict and then spent a year in Pristina seconded into the UN High Commissioner for Refugees. Tony Blair says that we "reversed ethnic cleansing" there, but I would not count the expulsion of over 100,000 Serbs and Roma from a province guarded by 40,000 Nato troops as a success."
http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/take_two/2007/04/oliver_kamm_v_conor_foley.html
So with a bit more insight Mirek,
the question you need to ask of yourself is who are you or the EUcrats to Diktat and try to shut Serbia out of what remains its internal affairs???
Mirek, just as Smile points out I too am very familiar with public sentiment and have many Czech friends who have a fuller understanding then yourself of this diktát/Zrada that many would like Serbia to accept today such as the same US, UK and France who saw fit to uphold and reaffirm Serbia's soverignty to end their illegal war by formulating and signing and thus being obligated by UN SC Resolution 1244 yet today would dictate otherwise!!!
Well just like the Czech's who did not accept the Mnichovská diktát/Zrada - don't expect the Serbs to accept the same Zrada!!
pre 18 godina
Anthony Shelmerdine, All those flags you mentioned CAN beseen displayed in one place. It's called Michael Jackson's back yard.
This makes Michael the rightful ruler of an imaginary world which Kosovo belongs to. So don't be surprised if there is a new addition to that world, the new flag of Kosovo.
Now let's get beack to reality. Those law abiding countries which don't recognize the illegal UDI should not sign anything put in front of them concerning any territorial integrity regarding Kosovo unless it clearly states that Kosovo is Seriban.
If EP cannot get all their members to sign it cannot implement their wishes.
But wait, didn't that happen and Kosovo was not recognized by the EU?
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Cant wait to see the flags of Disneyland, Narnia, Middle Earth and Never Never Land fluttering in the breeze.
pre 18 godina
Kosovo is not a country.
1. International organizations provide political administration.
2. NATO provides security.
3. The UN provides its existence.
4. Economic aid is almost exclusively pumped into the region.
5. It needs powers like the US for legitimacy and to exert political pressure.
By these facts alone, Kosovo is neither an independent state nor a legitimate political entity. It is a colony of the European Union and a US Dependency.
Flying the flag of the EU's most recently acquired piece of real estate does not legitimize its existence as an equal political entity along the lines of other European countries. Rather it shows that the EU has established ownership over the land and is seeking to show its legitmate acquisition at its own functions and conferences.
The day Kosovo can stand up on its own, and be recognized in international bodies like the UN will be the day Kosovo is an independent state. Until then, it is a colony. No more, no less. If the Albanians wish to think it's the world's newest state, that's their business, but without external powers to prop up this parastate, it would collapse in a matter of months.
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Ben, you sound like the Ottoman Empire all over again. Are you suggesting that just because the Albanian birth rate far outnumbers other ethnic groups, those areas should be part of Albania? Should Montenegro be part of Albania too since the Albanian population is the majority? In the future, when the Albanian population outnumbers others in surrounding countries, should all of those areas be part of Albania? Don't forget, Kosovo was 50/50 Albanian/Serbian during WWII. Majority populations should never dictate independence. Should most of the Western US become part of Mexico just because they now have a majority Mexican population. I think not. Blerimi, don't worry, Albanians will one day realize that they had much more freedom under Serbia than they will ever have under the umbrella of the EU and the US. It will be too late though.
pre 18 godina
Ben,
1. According to country-data.com and Unicef, Kosovo had the highest birth rate in Europe (29 births per thousand) as of 1988.
2. You are correct. I was referring to the neighboring regions of Albania in Macedonia where the Albanian population is a majority. Based on your comments in 5 and 6 below, are you implying that these areas are part of Albania too just because Albanians are the majority? If this were always true, then parts of Bosnia and Croatia that were majority Serb or Muslim prior to the wars in the 1990’s should have become part of Serbia or part of an independent state, but instead were cleansed by mostly Croatian forces from these areas.
3. Part of my comment in 4 below will address this false claim. Also, if the majority of the Kosovo population was always Albanian, who were the occupying Turks fighting during the 14th century? History says Serbs, not Albanians. If the majority were Albanian, then Albanians would have fought the Turks to defend their country. According to the CIA website, Albanians didn’t replace Serbs as the majority population until the late 19th century.
4. According to infoplease.com, Illyrians first inhabited this area, then Slavs in the 6th and 7th centuries, followed by Albanians in the 8th century, so Serbs were in Kosovo first.
5. No need to comment. This has no relevance to independence.
6. Refer to comment 4 above. Other ethnic groups were there first.
7. No need to comment. There is no such thing as a greater Serbia or greater Albania.
With regards to the Bush comment, Bush is doing what is in the best interest of the US, not for you or for anyone else in Kosovo or Albania. Why would the US be so interested in countries that are some of the poorest and least developed areas in all of Europe? It is all strategic in creating a military presence to counter Russian successes in the past 10 years.
By the way, I am not Serbian or Albanian, but I have done enough research in the past 10 years to understand the demographics and politics in the region. It is now time for a lot of misinformation to be brought to the forefront so that people all over the world are no longer deceived by media that is significantly influenced by lobby groups in Washington. Millions and millions of dollars have been given by Albanians to lobby groups so that these lies are propagated on television, in newspapers, and in academic institutions. I invite all those who have not done their own independent research to do so and learn the truth, rather than blindly listen to the media, as many have done over the past 10-15 years.
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Luigi, I don't believe Jeremic is "Little". He is actually of decent height. Or are you trying to be sarcastic? BTW, why are most pro-Albin commentators here often sarcastic? Can we have a discussion without sarcasm?
As for Kosovo being an independent state, it is not. As much as the EU is using U.S. "strong arm" tactics to force their agenda, it means nothing without UNSC recognition. Their will be NO UN seat, therefore NO independent Kosovo. The law is the law, no matter how you try to re-paint it. You can put lipstick on a pig, and it's still a pig. Kosovo remains Serbian land, no matter what the EU/US is trying to force through.
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What amuses me about the whole Kosovo situation is that Albanians think that the US and the EU have awarded them with something by supporting their pursuit of independence. Both the EU and the US will always impose the rule of law for all sides involved. US and EU military bases will be built and national laws will be based on EU and US directives, not on what Albanians, or Serbs for that matter, feel is right for Kosovo. Just look at Ireland. They have never allowed abortions in Ireland, but now they are being pressured by the EU to change this law, and believe me it will change. Kosovo is just another example of a weak eastern european territory that will be taken advantage of as the US and the EU build an eastern front to increase military and economic presence on Russia's doorstep, especially with Russia's recent growth in the global economic and political arenas.
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EU has again shown it's true face, and it couldn't be more ugly. If EU sends it's illegal troops to Serbian holy ground they will pay the price. Only UNMIK and KFOR has right to be there. Serbia has already tolerated way too much and has not used it's legal right to defend it's borders. Serbia should not take any more sitting down. There comes a time when you need to rise and say enough is enough!
pre 18 godina
"To Serbs,
Don't expect anything from the UN. The UN is another pork and meet association that we Americans own and pay all its bills. Its purpose is to keep some people in line, there is no such thing as international law because states were, even if it is, Serbia can't argue, states were are and will be created. The republic of Kosovo is an independent and sovereign country.
(American, 29 May 2008 19:42)"
Besides your last sentence (that of course is incorrect) we already knew all these facts, but thanks for reminding the world again of the (sad) reality. This will not last forever and maybe you should try to think what your own country will look like in 50 years when you, your children and grand children will be a minority (I assume you are caucasian). The high oil prices and the weak dollar already are starting to take its toll and this is just the beginning. US businesses are cheap to buy these days and the Chinese, Indians, Russians, Arabs, Europeans and so on will buy them, take the technology they need and close the place (similar tactics as you have done for many years in for instance Canada). Fortunately there are still many countries and people who believe in international law and justice will prevail. I just hope you people will be able to overcome the thought of having an African American as president and if not how you and the rest of the world will have to deal with another four years of GWB style politics. Have a nice day.
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since i dont care what eu accepts or rejects i'll just look at one comment here.
marek, nevermind princip, i see he's upset you, but i'll make you feel better. 60 odd years later and the grandchildren of those who 'pragmatically cooperated' to dismember their own country for the greater european good which turned out to be western blindness that led to the worst european nightmare appeasing a monster are still touchy about it? what can i say, there's a great lesson to be learnt from sudentenland case, never betray your country, because that kinda thing is never forgotten and it never goes away.
but marek there's not just you, i also read comments from czechs. they
are with us and understand the magnitude of abominable attempt to break up our country. which by the by we will never sign over ;)
anyway, fine comment marek all round :)) only, it's mother, not brother russia.
that should give you a clue you clearly need. it's mother, that's what we call her.
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Touched a nerve there Dardan... ha ha. Clearly the comparison with several 'make-believe' and fictional lands strikes home better than one could possibly have expected.
I think 'time travel' is a little melodramatic. I refer you to the previous ownership dispute over Kosovo and Metohija (i.e. Serbia v's Ottoman Empire... n.b. notice that there isn't a third party in this dispute). Took 500 years to get Kosovo and Metohija back and i would hazard an educated guess that it'll take less than 500 years this time (when one considers the hapless and morally corrupt element in Pristina that Serbia faces today). When your use is expended by your masters. Serbia will roll on back into Kosovo and Metohija.
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Kosovo is entirely dependent upon the EU and the US. Its independence is a sham. It has zero sovereignty. Even its precious flag had to be approved by its foreign masters.
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Joe, I'm not out to put any spin or any negativity on Kosovo, nor am I interested in degrading entire ethnic races like you do. My argument is simply based on a matter of the definition of sovereignty, and Kosovo Province today lack all of the qualifications that make it an independent state. I'm perfectly happy to let Kosovo be a EU mandate for the indefinite future. Lord knows Serbia is better off having this albatross taken off its neck. But to imply it's a state equal in stature to Serbia, Germany, or Montenegro, is plain wrong. I don't even need to resort to the CCCC rhetoric many use here. I don't follow it, and I don't need to use it to prove my point.
And having powerful and rich supporters is even more meaningless than the labels I ascribe to the region. That money is never going to the people on the ground - only a small group of elites in Pristina who are paid to remain loyal to Washington. You know the Cold War tactics our country played with rouge states and banana republics. The State Department's playbook hasn't been updated in decades.
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Blerimi,
As I've said before, it does not matter who we think Kosovo belongs to. Once international forces entered in 1999, we all knew that they will never leave, just like the same forces will never leave Bosnia or Afghanistan. The day to day operations within Kosovo will not change just because a different flag flies or because someone else is officially named the president of a new state. Your dreams of independence and freedom will be short lived. The people of Kosovo, both Serbs and Albanians, will learn that having foreign parties approve all political, economic, and state security matters will over time result in the loss of cultural and religious identity for everyone involved. As far as a greater Serbia goes, what is the difference between a greater Serbia and a greater Albania when Kosovo is discussed? They sound the same to me. Check online and you will find many more maps of a Greater Albania than maps of Greater Serbia.
pre 18 godina
Mirek,
just so you understand that many in Czech are not so easily deceived as yourself heres a programme that has convienently been blocked from being aired on Czech state TV - watch and learn from your fellow Czech (and excellent I might add) film producers;
Uloupene Kosovo
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4554948078128880143&
pre 18 godina
Endri
Whilst its great to go back as far as one likes to find who owns what, there is little doubt that Kosovo was a turning point in the nation of Serbia. However you must also realise by these silly points, that Scandinavian countries (Vikings) or Germany (Germanic tribes) could lay claim to the UK, or even Scotland, which tribe was first? Celts? Oh dear.
Serbs could also say they owned Bosnia, northern Greece etc at one point as well prior to the Turkish invasion. The creation of countries and respect of sovereignty was done to prevent wars on the scale of WW2 or return to feudal land grabs. The only consistency with Yugoslavia is that it has never been the case since its break up. The internal borders that changed under Tito were never recognised until it suited various powers during Yugoslavian break up. Kosovo was part of Serbia longer than when it was not.
Or shall we re-draw borders all over the world as soon as a group becomes unhappy?
Maybe you would not mind the Greeks to remove the Albanians from Albania? Or even Italy (Romans) if you want to go back in time? Hell lets go and remove the Turks back to Asia.
Maybe the previous owner of my house can come and claim it back for free too?
pre 18 godina
Endri,
I have lived with them too and have found no basis for what so many others claim. Like I said, I have come to my conclusions from independent research and not propaganda. In fact, as I was researching these issues from non-Serbian or Albanian sources, it was clear to me that Serbs had no propaganda whatsoever, especially in the West. Once I was convinced of my positions from what I have read and listened to, I was astonished that Serbs never had enough organization and initiative to further their own cause. It was obvious to me that Serbs honestly believed that other countries and cultures throughout the world would recognize justice and reality, but were surprised when civilized and sophisticated societies like the US came under the influence of mega dollars and their own personal interests. Again, I would encourage everyone to conduct their own independent research and not blindly take in everything that is transmitted by international media outlets.
pre 18 godina
(Michael Blairsdale, 31 May 2008 21:44)
Michel teh one that wanted to remove others were teh Serbs that wanted to renove Albanians form Kosov a just 8 year s ago. You do remeber this?
So all what you say makes litle sense.
If you go back you will find again teh same Slavs form north that try to remove the Nativs in south.
USA give a concrete comment on what Endri posted- not genreal leftists positions.
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