PM's adviser: Legal means include war

Oh dear, Oh dear, this is all sounding very grim indeed. And with many of the K-Albanians adopting a "bring 'em on" attitude, it is hard to know where it will all end. And it is very worrying.

Those who recognise my name will know from previous posts that I fully support the Serbian position on Kosovo. But then, whatever happens will not directly affect me as I am 2,500km away.

But yet, but yet, like all those directly involved I am a European - one with a deep affection for the whole
Balkan region which only grows with each visit I make. So I feel involved.

The only tools we have in guiding relations between peoples are the hard-won principles of international law. These are by no means perfect but they are all we have. The alternative is war and mayhem.

A unilateral declaration of independence by the Kosovars, followed by the piecemeal recognition of this by various states, would inflict a potentially fatal blow to the authority of the UN which has already been shaken by US actions in Iraq. It would unleash a free-for-all, with interests everywhere feeling justified in ignoring charters, resolutions, whatever. And wouldn't they be right, with international law in shreds.

As an K.Albanian I thank you Mr.Simic!

Yep, when all else fails Serbia goes back to what it does best, which is War.

Who exactly are you going to fight Sir?

Security and Defence in Kosova is NATO's responsibility, and they wont like you meddling in Kosova's affairs.

ANY country would do the same thing...what is so difficult to understand? Srbija is protecting itself, not invading any other country. albanians better take the autonomy plan or they will be left with far less

The west had better not underestimate Serbia’s will to preserve its province. It would be another blunder added to the countless blunders the west has made regarding the Balkans.

Serbia has the legal right to use any and all means to defend its territory. The Serbs went up against the Ottoman Empire over Kosovo who by the way in its time was 4 to 5 times a greater power than NATO is today, and the Serbs in that time were at least 4 to 5 times weaker than today. What makes the West feel that today’s Serbia will let Kosovo go without war? I am not advocating war, far from it, all I am saying is make no mistake about it, the WAR option has always been on the table and if it happens, the West will have a very difficult time explaining to their citizens why they are at War with Serbia and possibly Russia, good luck in explaining we are at WAR because the Serbs refuse to give 15% of their country to Muslim Albanians. No matter how you spin it the people of the West will not buy it, especially in the USA since recently it has been officially discovered that Iran does not have a Nuclear weapons program in spite of Bushes constant noise that they do and that the USA should attack Iran and start what would probably be a 20 year war with them. Bush has now lost 100% of all his creditability, good luck to him in trying to sell a Balkan war now, especially because the law is clearly in favor of Serbia and not the USA.

Simic is just stating the obvious just as the US Presidential hopeful stated;

"Use our military not as the solution to every problem but as one element in a comprehensive strategy. As president, I will never hesitate to use force to protect Americans or to defend our territory and our vital interests. We cannot negotiate with individual terrorists; they must be hunted down and captured or killed. "
- page 2, Security and Opportunity for the Twenty-first Century, Hillary Rodham Clinton, From Foreign Affairs, November/December 2007
http://www.foreignaffairs.org/20071101faessay86601-p10/hillary-rodham-clinton/security-and-opportunity-for-the-twenty-first-century.html

Equally President Tadic should be just as clear that Diplomacy is our way forward but that
"As president, I will never hesitate to use force to protect "Serbians" or to defend our territory and our vital interests"

Those who act agains international norms and laws will be the ones who act in an agressive and occupying action and from that perspective Simic is absolutely right and should be highlighted to those who would wish to force the partition of the Serbian Republic.

I bet you anything that his BOSS has told him to publicly make such statemaant.Since the end is in site, they will do and say anything but war, because they know it well that starting another war will take Serbia to abyss.

Thank you Mr. Simic.

It's about time someone from the government sent a clear message to albanians.

Serbia has the right to defend itself.

This guy is exactly saying how it is. How can you expect a country not to use force if all legal means do not work. If tomorrow all the mexicans in California said that they were going to declare independence along with the help of the mexican army, do you honestly think that the so called democratic country USA would not defend its territory. I dont understand the statement made by the DS representative saying that this is dangerous. Of course war is dangerous and Serbia does not need more war, however, when your land is on the verge of being stolen, you are going to defend it! If it was up to the DS or LDP, kosovo would have already been independent!

The Article 51 of the UN Charter allows Serbia to take all necessary measures, including seeking military assistance from other UN members:

"Nothing in the present Charter shall impair the inherent right of individual or collective self-defence if an armed attack occurs against a Member of the United Nations, until the Security Council has taken measures necessary to maintain international peace and security. Measures taken by Members in the exercise of this right of self-defence shall be immediately reported to the Security Council and shall not in any way affect the authority and responsibility of the Security Council under the present Charter to take at any time such action as it deems necessary in order to maintain or restore international peace and security. "

In case of violation of UNSEC Resolution 1244, NATO forces on Serbian soil are agressors.

All players at the table are fully aware of that fact.

Simic acts as his masters voice.
Here the real face of Mr Kostunica shows. Ready to bring Serbia to a next defeat, with destruction and mass killings. It seems the Serbia is doomed to have such leaders.
With this kind of rhetoric Serbia will remain the darkest place in Europe. I feel sorry for the ordinary citizens, who will pay the price.

There is an Albanian proverb that goes "a wolf will change his hair [color] but not forget his habits."

my dear albanian friends, ...that´s what your US-american-"friends" seem to hope for... a new armed conflict ( the only reason for them to justify their further presence in the Balkans )
and you would be the losers, since Serbia will never give up it´s cultural heartland.

it seems like that all depends on the K-albanians themselves, if they are smart enough to chose broad autonomy, they will enjoy the maximm possible, if not... all sides will lose.

Oh sure yeah lets start another war. But remember what Boris Tadic said " If we start another war, we will loose another war". This also means that you lost all the wars, just as a reminder.
But I wonder who would fight for Serbia since the fighters of the 1999 war are still not paid and are protesting everyday.

'Legal means also include war' says Mr Simic. Please try it Alexander Simic!!! You'll lose, Presheva, Medvegja, Bujanoc and Vojvodina as well this time. That would cut Serbia to size.

Go on DS, have go at him. He is willing to fight.
Who is he going to fight against, unarmed civilians again?
I bet that he is going to contact Mladic to lead his assault/
Is anyone going to listen to him?
Are they going to turn around and remove him from the offiec?

I think that consulting Princip and Kate, International law interpreters for Serbia, would help him a lot.
Kosovars reading this said: I have no place to go. I am staying home and wait for him and his consultants to come.

Bring it on. NATO should have occupied Serbia in 1999 looks like the time is coming.

Kosovo must become independent NOW

Smic said; "When someone fails to respect the Security Council, the only body that ought to react in times when there is a threat of aggression and war, particularly when someone does not observe Chapter VII of the United Nations Charter and the resolution that was adopted in line with it, then there is nothing else a country can do,"
Mr. Simic and Co. did you consult Security Council (since you respect it) for intervention in Kosovo in 1998-99, when 800,000 Albanians were expeled and around 100,000 houses were set on fire, and many killing happend.
You are HEARTRENDING man.
Shame, a big shame for humanity.

What is this man thinking? Has he forgoten that Serbia was forcefully kicked out of Kosovo! It is a shame that the fate of millions of Serbs is being placed in the hands of these dangerous individuals. This dangerous, adviser lacks the sense of responsibility.

The Serb president makes a pledge to the international community that no violence will be used in determining the Kosovo status and here he comes undermining his own president. And Kosovars are suppose to trust that these men will abide by their signed agreements. Not in a million years. Independence is the only way forward that ensures the safety, stability and economic development for the Kosovo citizens.

War is a last resort. What does IC expect? If Kosovo doesn't gain indpendence will Pristina just roll over & give up? I think not. Not with the talk of unrest (aka war) if they don't get indpendence. Serbia has thrown everything but the kitchen sink at Pristina during these talks & it still wasn't enough. Serbia has no choice anymore & may have have to use its last resort. Win or lose, Serbia will not watch it's territory ripped away from them & not fight back.

Threatening to use force, with NATO being in Kosovo?

Imagine how much 'rougher' the Serbian state language would have been without NATO in Kosovo. Just imagine Seselj and co saying Albanians will be 'deported to their real motherland.'

And then we hear of a civilized, transformed and democratic Serbia...

If it had not been for NATO and the West, I bet this government would have been no different to Milosevic's. This is PRECISELY why we cannot and will not EVER live under one legal roof with such states. Thank you for your autonomial offers - but NO, thank you!!

We'll get a state of our own, and a force to protect us. There might not be good political appetite at present to have a strong Kosovo army, yet in the medium-term NATO will most probably opt out for a robust indigenous military force for Kosovo to balance the regional power of Serbia and to be able to pull out its own troops.

At present our insurance policy is tenable - dare attack NATO, and we'll just watch the show.

In the medium-term, we'll most certainly have a robust defense force that will withstand Serbian military pressure.

Without a strong Kosovo military, and with NATO gone in the future, Serbia will always try to blackmail us.

Slowly but surely we are on the eve of wrapping up our greatest national project - and once we get the state, a strong defense force will no doubt be forthcoming.

We're patient...

I would like to ask Mr. Tadic and the DS exactly what does the Serbian Army defend? Obviously not Serbian land nor its own citizens. Maybe President Tadic believes the Serbian Army exists to protect Nato and fight for the interests of the United States. He would love to send Serbian men to fight in Iraq & Afganistan.

Of course it does. Interesting to know what USA, UK, ... would do if they had been in RS place?!

It should be clear to everyone that, what drove Serbia to war in the 90's was the result of the AVNOJ resolution from 29-11-43 where the KPJ ripped Serbia into (3) republics and (2)autonomous regions (within Serbia), while excluding the Serbs, from other areas in the former Yugoslavia, priveledge to autonomy as well.

As far as "war mongering", nobody like to go to war and based on the voter turnout of the K&M elections (where independence was the main campaign pitch), neither does the majority of the population there. However, every country in the world has a right to protect & defend their territorial integrity and sovereignty within international law. Statements from the DS camp implies that Serbia does not and outside of that law?? Why does Serbia have an army if not to protect and defend it's territory? Statements like that only encourages the seperatists not to negotiate and takes away from the "efforts" committed to finding a peacefull solution.

btw, NATO isnt what it was in 1999....It seems they are more occupied by Afghanastan and Iraq, they honestly have more at stake there than they do in Kosovo. Law is law, and rules are rules, they apply to everyone. Should you declare independence, then 1244 is void and Nato troops are invaders of Serbian soil. Nato knows what crisis is possible and they will "throw the albanians under the bus" so to speak if you declare independence. CCCC

Why Albanians comment negatively on this since only few months ago they were crying help from the West to speed up the independence and therat by using the force if decision on status is prolonged more. Serbia has every right to defend the Serbs in Kosovo if KFOR fail to do it.

Nice speech... all the cards are opened now from serbian side that was so eager for compromise but is falling deep in war threats. Is a blackmail of course, but coming from a high official so close to primeminister it will have a devastating impact in the future relations of Serbia with international community. That\s a mad statement. God helps us from such politicians

IF serbia will send troops to Northern Part of Kosova where serbs resides, i think UCKMB should take control of Preseva valley area. If this happen it means another war in the area. Serbs cant afford another international war with international community.

Finally it came out...
The try face of serbia's government..

good luck (i think you will need it).

Aww just admit it already. Serbia is stuck between a rock and a hard place. They can use "legal means" all they want and change nothing. They can try using military force and get crushed by NATO (70% of which is controlled by the USA which is the biggest supporter of Kosovar independence).

I do not think there is any sane politician in Belgrade, besides Tomislav Nikolic, who seriously thinks they can engage NATO militarily and win. Although some Serb politicians actually make such statements, I am sure that they do not privately believe that military force is a viable option. NATO is not a guerrilla army...they are the most professional soldiers in the world.

This is going to be a suicide for Serbia. No one wants to go to war with NATO.
If Serbia was able to "defend" Kosovo then it should've done so in 1999.

So it's ok for Pristina to threaten with unrest (aka war) if they don't get independence. But Serbia should just roll over. We are just taking a page out of Pristinas illeagle independence handbook.

Look at this the Albanians are clearly telling the world
that if they do not get independence they will blackmail us and start causing violence and war this has been stated by Phristina I think even the Albanians on this forum can say this much right? And yet they make comments like oh Serbia is showing her true face now.If Serbs were trying to slipt from traditional Albanian land you would do everything to defend it right? There is not a logical person on earth except the US and Albanians whom think Serbia should not protect herself.And remember the reason the Serbian army left Kosovo is because NATO started terror bombing civillians it was to save lives not the military.

And who said that Serbia is not the test case for international law!
What happens in Serbia will happen in every country around the globe.
Every country has the right to defend its sovereign territory in a peaceful manner of dialogue and diplomacy but if that is exhausted and if no-one listens to reason and in Serbia's case 15% of its territory is ripped from it.....and that 15% is its very spiritual ancestral heartland then Mr. Simic has every right to make this statement.

It is true that war can be legal - the humanitarian interventions against Serbia (in particular) were justified by the international community because the paramilitary forces under the loose control of Milosevic were breaking the rules of war.

Croatia was advised by the US to clean up its act and as a consequence received the support that enabled it to take over Krajina. Milosevic and many of his generals never took the hint, and then continued to play political games with the international community. It was the belief that they would not follow international law that justified the bombing campaign.

Serbia's worst problem is dealing with the results of the actions of those who thought they could get away with breaking the rules of war. They did a lot to harm Serbia's good name.

However, Serbia is gradually recovering from those times and is taking a legal and democratic path. Violence is an option in defending its territory - but I expect it will not be used. I do not want to see war. However, note that war would be legal if independence is declared and 1244 is broken - as long as the rules of war are followed.

The best answer is for both sides to agree to negotiate a solution. They need to use the best arbitrators available - probably there are enough diplomats and politicians in the EU who are still sufficiently neutral on the issue. It may take a long time to reach an accommodation - but if they do then the economic and political paths are clear for a good future.

Of course, it would help Serbia's case if Mladic would give himself up - or better still, be arrested by the Serbian government.

Dear God, no. No more wars.

Spot on, spot on.

God bless the US of A. KA's seem to want to tie their very tiny boat to the big ship of the USA. The USA kills more people 'legally' than any "civilized" country in the world.... I think most people in the world would disagree with the practices of the US, except Kosovo, they feel that anything the US does is the way it should be....

"“At a time when Serbia has pledged itself as a factor of peace and stability in the negotiating process, Simić, in his role as prime ministerial adviser, comes out with these menacing, dangerous comments that jeopardize Serbia’s position before the Security Council, sending the message that warmongering was being conducted in Serbia,” reads a DS statement."

Little does DS know that this guy is paid by K-Albanian lobby to say these words. More warmongers among Serbia's politics, better for the cause of Kosova's independence. At least some people at DS understand that.

maybe they include war, but they were tried by miloshevic and it didnt work, it was even counter productive.

so you dont scare no one any more serbia, not internationals, not albanians, no one, instead you should be scared, Kosovo is going

Our apologies to all our visitors who commented on the news stories on our website during the course of the afternoon – we were unable to moderate and post them sooner due to technical problems.

Thank you for your patience and contribution,

B92

Looks like this guy has learned from Ahmedi Nejad.

oh ! boy that scary story "war as a legal way".looks like serbian goverement really last in nowhere land?that you call worst hypocrasy

To the Albanian side; if the IC said they will give you independence tomorrow if you agreed to the partition of the north to Serbia & the respect of all minority rights & cultral sites would you take it?

I am not sure what "Serbia needs to defend itself" means. I thought Simic was talking about fighting with Kosovo, in Kosovo, if UDI happens. In that case, I feel that would be same as saying " we will fight against, the US, Germany, Italy, France, UK and on and on, whoever has troops in Kosovo". I must admit, that is a great move from Serbia.

Come on Serbia, that's it, show your true face.
You and Koshtunica heading the way, are helping us in the EU realise, there is no option to Kosovos Indipendence.
We feel no different to what we felt '99. And Serbia doesen't seem to have changed much, so why should the International Comunity?

To be honest with you guys, I was expecting this article to come up a couple of weeks ago.

They started talking about cutting off ties with whoever recognize Kosova and then economic blockade and finally WAR.
Well, if this last one doesn't work you have no more options left...Think about it

Wow some 49 comments about the statement of a suicidal man, statement suggested by his master warmonger Kostunica. Naturally nobody is surprised that known hard-liners like Princip, Ratko, Delije, Jovan and Bob Petrovich - some of them confortably far from Serbia - fully agree with such lunatic suggestion. These Serbian Don Quixotes want to attack the NATO in Kosovo.
Well this shows the world that in Serbia nothing changed.

I can't believe that someone actually believes that Serbia will consider war. This is just noise, the last round of noises that Serbia can make before Kosovo becomes de jure independent.
The next move is embargo, and finally this sad chapter of history will be closed.

NATO: Nuclear-armed American Armed Forces + Nuclear-armed British Armed Forces + Nuclear-armed French Armed Forces + German Armed Forces, on of the biggest of Europe.

Serbia: some Armed Forces.

I just can say to you: GOOD LUCK! You’ll need it A LOT, you know.

“what drove Serbia to war in the 90's was the result of the AVNOJ resolution from 29-11-43 where the KPJ ripped Serbia into (3) republics and (2)autonomous regions (within Serbia)”

Sorry, but this is a lie.

What drove Serbia to war in the 1990’s was the dictatorial policies of SLOBODAN MILOSEVIC, with the help from the opportunist politicians, the Serbian-dominated Yugoslav Army, the fanatic nationalist “intellectuals” from S.A.N.U., the fanatic priests from the Serbian Orthodox Church, the experienced contract-killers (Arkan), the Serbian Mafia and the hooligans of the Red Star Belgrade.

Joe,...

those lies don´t help you at all.
who is talking of Serbia attacking NATO?

NATO is bound to international law, if it is not willing to lose the last tiny bit of credibility.
so if those who wish to steal foreign territory by simply calling it theirs, not only NATO but also the UN will have to act in line with international law.

it´s interesting that you are quick in writing such a defamation here, but uncapable of informing yourself...

if some albanian "hero" (...or should I rather say snake-brain? ) should "declare" a pseudo-independence, the UNMIK authorities would have to act against it, if Mr.Ruecker failed to do so, Mr.Moon would have the duty to replace Mr.Ruecker and overrule his omission.
if even Mr.Moon failed to act against illegal steps, the UNSC would have to take care of Mr. Moon.

I don´t believe Mr.Moon is that naive.

once again: please stop those accusations and threats. they only show YOUR desperation and hatred, you´re only doing harm to yourself!

Why shouldn't Serbia fight to protect its territory? The US does more than just fight when its interests are threatened. Imagine what it would do if a part of the US tried to declare independence...

another smart move by serbia
keeps getting better and better

Does this sound like bluffing, or is it just me? And you people still believe him?

Come on! And you call this diplomacy? Is this your way of finding a common ground for the future?

C`mon! Books are closed and every serbian politician knows it. Those declarations are only for the elections! Serbia attacking NATO....funny joke!

there will be no war, you are all commenting on a subject that won't happen besides the fact the people who are doing all the talking are not even in Serbia or Kosovo.

Daniel,

Your country committed atrocious crimes againt 2 millions of ITS OWN CITIZENS. You dared to do something criminal what no other country dared to do. As a result the international community dares to take away Kosovo from you like state authorities take away a child from mistreating parents, parents not dign of that name.
So don't resort to polemic. Serbia's case is unique. It can not be compared to any other country.

Joe (Post 64)

I don't know where you get your information but you are deluded. If Serbia is "unique" today, then it'll be somewhere else tomorrow and somewhere else again the day after that.
All that's going on here is a strategic plan by the US and NATO to have a permanent military presence at the heart of the Balkans.
It must have escaped your attention that in recent years the US have been establishing military bases in every available location adjacent to the Middle/Near East. Now I wonder why that is?

Mark...regarding 1913, Kosovo was illegally given to albanians then too. Show me ONE monument, One structure that dates back farther than a Serbian one and i'll say "yes, Kosovo is yours". Just show me ONE peice of evidence. You people had no structured community in Kosovo. And you piggy back off of Serbian history and try to make it somehow significant to albanains and hijack it as "albanians". Its a joke and nobody in the world will say that Kosovo wasnt Serbian besides albanians. This joke of dardania is just pathetic. Kosovo is Srbija.

“what drove Serbia to war in the 90's was the result of the AVNOJ resolution from 29-11-43 where the KPJ ripped Serbia into (3) republics and (2)autonomous regions (within Serbia)”

"Sorry, but this is a lie.

What drove Serbia to war in the 1990’s was the dictatorial policies of SLOBODAN MILOSEVIC, with the help from the opportunist politicians, the Serbian-dominated Yugoslav Army, the fanatic nationalist “intellectuals” from S.A.N.U., the fanatic priests from the Serbian Orthodox Church, the experienced contract-killers (Arkan), the Serbian Mafia and the hooligans of the Red Star Belgrade.
(Bad Gorilla, 6 December 2007 06:16)"

Sir/Madam,

You need to dig deeper if you want to discard my fact based opinion as a "lie". Your explaination of the truth is quite shallow to say the least.

Have a nice day.

Wasn't the rhetoric last year before Russia's confirmed backing that Serbia would reject any attempt by the UNSC to grant independence to Kosovo. Now with Russia assuring a veto the UNSC is the only one that can make decisions concerning Kosovo. I wonder what the rhetoric would be should Russia change courses? Princip this is your true tangled web you love to talk about.

There we have it. The leadership of Serbia hasn't changed the views towards Albanians. You can't view people as second class and have no problem using military might against them and expect them to want to be a part of your entity (state). All these talks have just been nonsense.

There were only two realistic solutions here with the available tools.

Kick 2 million Albanians out so the land belongs to Serbia. Hopefully, free of any compensation to Kosovars. As we can safely assume; an Albanian is worthless to the Serbian leadership.

The other solution is let the people stay and be independent of this leadership.

It is interesting,

Did you fight for that law in Slovenia, Croatia, Bosna, Kosova and now again Kosova?
Is that law made just for you?

I had read this whole article before any comments had even been posted. it is quite interesting to see the opposing views. I'm completely dumb-founded as to how people who actually read the article, and post comments which are based on truths (ie Princip, and others) are attacked and seen as some sort of serbian facists who are of the milosevic era. Im sorry but i have to say, they are the ones who comment with truths. I have to address certain aspects of these comments.

1. Serbia, Macedonia, Montenegro, Greece and Albania

The albanians on this site all claim that land was stolen from them. Yet they are too stubborn (thats how HUMANS are) to recognise truths. As with all the countries mentioned above, they have all traced back their historical roots. The albanians how ever have not set recorded root, they all claim to be illyrians. I'm sorry, but this seems ridiculous. Had any albanians been present during the earlier centuries then yes then they might have had some sort of argument. Take a look at a map of the balkans during the 800's AD. Please note that at that period of time the Byzantine empire was in control of most of the area. Serbia was known as Servia.. montenegro was not yet created as the serbian prince was not born yet. Macedonia was around - the birth place of alexander the great - greek. Now please note that albanians were no where to be seen. Everyone else was there but albanians were no where. For all we know, the belief that you are of illyrian decent could be completely wrong, heck you even could be decendents of the roma (no offence). Thats the thing, as at the time when the rest of those countries were still around, or their ancestors were... you guys werent any where. At first i couldnt understand it and yes i did end up having to look through various published sources, with atleast 90% being books. Surely enough, albania was not there; rather it was the countries as mentioned above, or their ancestors. So if anyone was stealing land, i can bet my soul that it was not the countries listed above.

2. America.
I cannot believe people. OK, im going to inform you all again.....serbia was at war with who? SEPERATIST albanians(want someone to blame?) at the same time it was at war with the rest of the seperatist states - all triggered by slovenia (according to you guys,im guessing serbia told slovenia to get out of yugo?) OK so what role did america play in this? Simple. Note that allegience... America, Britain, France, and the others. Now who was against serbia during the war? The americans(oh look you learn something new everyday). Now at the same time, who are the people that own the worlds media? They are all from the american backing sides including america itself. So was it not the enemy of serbia covering the war? Wow! interesting much?
Now down to the case of "war crimes." People who dare accuse serbia of war crimes (JNA soldiers commited the crimes) yet at the same time they consider the americans to be saints have to be the most ignorant people to exist. I'm sorry, let me ask you something? The albanians and the rest of the american backers supported iraq am i right? Why is it that no weapons of mass distruction were ever found? why is that now most of the lieutenants and other high ranked american army officials, as well as politicans are now considering it to be the biggest blunder in american history? Why is it that you all attack iran for wanting to harness nuclear power? How dare america accuse other countries of attempting to destroy any hope of world peace.... May i ask how many atomic bombs were dropped on japan? 2! Thats right, 2. The americans accuse others of evil intentions yet they are so completely pig headed that they dont consider the murder of around 210,000 civilians a war crime? Ignorance is bliss people. You all talk about war crimes and consider america to be perfect. Roughly 110,000 people lost their lives during the balkan wars, you cannot sit here and tell me that serbians were not amongst the dead. NATO shelled serbia with depleted uranium and many other things which were completely against all the rules of war, and all because they were defending themselves from seperatists.

3. Kosovo.
You are all quick to jump at the serbs and accuse them of everything. You are the ones who accuse us of war crimes. Not that the KLA are guerilla forces. They have no sort of uniforms and use anything at their disposal. What about hasim thaci? He is now leading kosovo yet he though against serbs. How interesting how he offers K Serbs autonomy... why not split kosovo in half? Thats because its clear that he wants to create a greater albania.

What can i say? Kosovo has always been serbian... simic is right, war is a legal option...

gomar,
the proof of albanains being decendants of the ancient illyrians has been proven on numerous occassions. scholars have written books on this topic throughout europe and the west. it just so happens that these books are not on library shelves in belgrade or athens.
look it up and you shall see for yourself.
(mark, 7 December 2007 20:44)

Yes mark, those books must be located only in albania.

The fact remains that albans are trying to steal something that DOES NOT belong to them. And america is "supporting" albans because they want to have an army base in Serbia. america attacked Serbia in the most cowardly and illegal way, in order to accomplish this.

We won't ever forget the nato crimes committed on our people!

i have to be honest about this -- way back... yesterday, i sent a comment about the soft-to-hard measures. i explained: as for the "soft" approach, that is accurate ("do nothing") though unlikely. but as for the real "hard" option, that was NOT honest; the real hard option was war, and all of the attending horrors that we were forced to watch (or experience!) during the 90s. and now kostunica's advisor spells it out. is it possible that i am psychic?? :- )
(happy hanukkah, everyone, from san francisco)

Why is everybody getting so worked about this guy's comments? Serbia will not go to war over Kosovo, they will not recognize Kosovo and maybe impose a trade embargo in the event of independence, but they won't go off and fight again. The Albanians will also not go to war over independence.

Nobody wants another war, I am sure the average Serb and the average Albanian are sick and tired of war as well and have their own lives to attend to, which are far more important in their minds than what their nationalist governments and some extremist groups on both sides are saying.

Albanians and Serbs: give the nationalism and hatred a rest, respect the rights of your minorities and learn to coexist peacefully, because this is getting ridiculous!

The only tools we have in guiding relations between peoples are the hard-won principles of international law. These are by no means perfect but they are all we have. The alternative is war and mayhem.

tom,
where was international law back in 1913 when kosove, eastern macedonia, southern montenegro and northern greece were snatched from albanians? if not for the US and president woodrow wilson, we'd have lost albania proper.
how about we go back to ireland a little over a little over 100 years ago
and raise the UNION JACK over dublin?
get real!

Mark...regarding 1913, Kosovo was illegally given to albanians then too. Show me ONE monument, One structure that dates back farther than a Serbian one and i'll say "yes, Kosovo is yours". Just show me ONE peice of evidence. You people had no structured community in Kosovo. And you piggy back off of Serbian history and try to make it somehow significant to albanains and hijack it as "albanians". Its a joke and nobody in the world will say that Kosovo wasnt Serbian besides albanians. This joke of dardania is just pathetic. Kosovo is Srbija.
(Obilic, 6 December 2007 20:38)

sure. i posted it on another article here but it hasn't appeared yet and may not due to it's content.
i said that we should scrape a few layers of paint off of the frescoes in those churches. let's see if we don't find that they were once albanian catholic churches prior to the turks.
regardless, keep in mind that the serbs are outsiders to the region. the albanians are not so we can go back as far as you'd like and the end result is the same. you're simply not native to the balkans.

Mark:
I don't think the Helsinki Final Act (dealing with sovereignty and the inviolability of national borders) was around in 1913 or any time before that. It was 1975 in fact. So if you want to go back 100 years, why not 500 years?
Joe:
Could you possibly deal with the issues rather than just disgracing yourself with your puerile insults against my country.

Thanks

the main reason why we are here today is simple Albania choose to support the axis powers during WW1 and WW2 where both times they were on the losing side and lost territory. Serbia then Yugoslavia support the US, British and the French and gain territory. Now role reversal because NATO blasted Serbia and yes rebuilt what they destroyed they are famous for that. Now everyone thinks there will be a war. Yea all of you guys in Pristina bring it on yep when the shooting starts people will head south to macedonia or west to Albania. The world is not going to be so generous this time when you declare independence and bring trouble to your door step. NATO will say not my fight EU step up and EU will head back to Germany not my fight. think about it and not listen to these idiots who say Bring it on when you sorry arse will head for Macedonia when the shooting starts. Again those commanders of blace will resurface and claimed they fought but were in Macedonia hiding.

Joe,

As a Hungarian nationalist, How do you feel about Transylvania, BiH and Vojvodina? Should they be brought back under the Hungarian fold?

"i said that we should scrape a few layers of paint off of the frescoes in those churches. let's see if we don't find that they were once albanian catholic churches prior to the turks.
regardless, keep in mind that the serbs are outsiders to the region. the albanians are not so we can go back as far as you'd like and the end result is the same. you're simply not native to the balkans.
(mark, 6 December 2007 21:09)"


mark,...

nobody will seriously believe that nonsense!

if those serbian churches and monasteries were "catholic albanian" prior to the turks"... so, ...just tell us all, ...why were they built in byzantine style? ( by the way, if you would inform you at all, you would have learned that this style is internationally called the serbian style...)

so, the bottom line is: what you tried to post here is stupid propaganda, without the slightest bit of credibility.


by the way a question to you, my dear "mark":

if those churches were albanian before... WHY are the Albanians burning them down now???


you have just disqualified yourself, my dear.

goran simic, are you a historian?

if yes, a very scarce one.

What about Ptolemy, writing about the Albanoi and their town Albanopolis situated in the today Central Albania in the II cent. a.D.? Or he was a biased pro-Albanian historian?

Should we ask where was Serbia by that time?

gomar,
the proof of albanains being decendants of the ancient illyrians has been proven on numerous occassions. scholars have written books on this topic throughout europe and the west. it just so happens that these books are not on library shelves in belgrade or athens.
look it up and you shall see for yourself.

People in albanians forum are critics to albanian government for not taking any political actions towards such statements from serbia. Serbians are just making rumors and noise because they will never try to attack Nato troops in Dardania. Albanian government need to get incluted on this mess just because we have nato to protect us, otherwise albanian government would have responded to any war citations in the region. Albania and Dardania after five years will be joining in a union and serbia will have nothing that can do about it,

" KA's seem to want to tie their very tiny boat to the big ship of the USA. The USA kills more people 'legally' than any "civilized" country in the world.... I think most people in the world would disagree with the practices of the US, except Kosovo, they feel that anything the US does is the way it should be....--(International Observer"

Really? So why did the Italians, Spanish, Romanians, Austrians, Germans, British, Dutch and several other E European nations send troops to Iraq and Afghanistan in support of US policy. lol...looks like 2/3's of Europe tied their very tiny boat to the big ship of the USA. Also, if the USA "kills" so many people "legally", why does Serbia and a few other nations who object to US policy, accept any crumb of aid the US sends their way? Seriously, if you want to criticize the United States for supporting self determination and humanitarian armed action to stop ethnic cleansing and ethnic murders, you need to make sure that the other big nations of the world conforms to the policy of criticism you state and follows through on their beliefs, as with Russia or China. But, their record on human rights is dismally atrocious in comparision. You need to refrain from making blanket generalizations without thinking of the obvious pitfalls in your statements.


"Law is law, and rules are rules, they apply to everyone. Should you declare independence, then 1244 is void and Nato troops are invaders of Serbian soil. Obilic"

Where have you been for the last 8 years? What you say is a matter of Serbia's medieval perspective, not fact.

Tom,

Nothing escapes my attention.
And wow we don't have a military base in Irlande. How can we survive without it? You would say it is not possible because we are a neutral country. Well we could find ways to get around it. But the reason is that you are a small insignificant country. Too many of yours left for the US in the XIX century and that was beneficial for you. Your immigrants lefy behind famine, misery and a less overcrowded land. Without that you would be overcrowded like Bangladesh requireing massive economic support from the US and your good neigbour the UK, who still provides jobs to 1 million of your citizens.

"I don't think the Helsinki Final Act (dealing with sovereignty and the inviolability of national borders) was around in 1913 or any time before that. It was 1975 in fact. So if you want to go back 100 years, why not 500 years?
Could you possibly deal with the issues rather than just disgracing yourself with your puerile insults against my country. Thanks (Tom O'Donoghue"

500, why bother, let's go back to 1 AD. Show us this Serbia or any Slavic tribe in the Balkans map of that year.

the main reason why we are here today is simple Albania choose to support the axis powers during WW1 and WW2 where both times they were on the losing side and lost territory.

you may want to research your history, sir. both ww1 and ww2 took place before 1913. unless you're suggesting that their land was taken away from them years before the war because the war was anticipated?
here's one theory: albania was invaded by the italians and occupied! also, even if they joined the axis powers it was done because it's no secret that germans dislike serbs and i'm sure they did it because it was the surest way of getting their land returned.

I don't think the Helsinki Final Act (dealing with sovereignty and the inviolability of national borders) was around in 1913 or any time before that. It was 1975 in fact. So if you want to go back 100 years, why not 500 years?

why not 500 years? as the previous poster suggested, we can go back and quote the bible where it's mention that paul visited illyricum. i'm sure, as always, you deny that albanians are the direct decendants of the ancient illyrians. do we need to go back any further?

Romans 15:19 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)
Public Domain



19Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.

nobody will seriously believe that nonsense!

if those serbian churches and monasteries were "catholic albanian" prior to the turks"... so, ...just tell us all, ...why were they built in byzantine style? ( by the way, if you would inform you at all, you would have learned that this style is internationally called the serbian style...)

so, the bottom line is: what you tried to post here is stupid propaganda, without the slightest bit of credibility.


by the way a question to you, my dear "mark":

if those churches were albanian before... WHY are the Albanians burning them down now???

jovan,
churches can easily be renovated to suit the new parishers. just like the turks converting churches into mosques. are you being serious or do you have that much time on your hands?

also,
if you've read in my previous posts, that was why i said what those albanians did was WRONG and i did not condone it. not because some of them were albanian at one time but because it's wrong to burn down anyone's place of worship.

What about Ptolemy, writing about the Albanoi and their town Albanopolis situated in the today Central Albania in the II cent. a.D.? Or he was a biased pro-Albanian historian?

Should we ask where was Serbia by that time?
(genc, 7 December 2007 20:40)

genc,
sadly, i fear you're wasting your breath attempting to reason w/some people. we could have an unbiased 3rd party prove it to them and they still would not believe it because it's been breed into their culture for many centuries.

To Mark:

Actually, everything west, north & east of the river Drin, and everything east of the river Black Drin is considered Serbian territory. Albania actually received more territory after WWI regardless of it's affiliation with the Central Powers. And, you should also know that Essad Pasha was a great friend of Serbia & Greece.

And, just so we get it straight; WWI was from 1914-1918 and WWII was from 1941-1945. Albania was declared independent in 1913. There is no knowledge of an Albanian state prior to 1913. It was known as a Republic of Mirdita in 1921, an Albanian Republic from 1925-1928, an Albanian Kingdom from 1928 to 1939, an Italian quisling state from 1939 to 1943 and a Communist republic from 1946 to 1992.

Furthermore, the Albanian flag is actually a Serbian territorial flag from the late Middle Ages (14th century)belonging to Djura Kastriotich(or Skender Beg or Giorgi Kastriota as Albanians refer to him). Kastriotich's father is buried on Hilendar Serbian Orthodox monastery grounds on Holy Mount in Greece. Skender Beg himself was an officer in the Serbian Imperial Army who later willingly converted to Islam under Turkish occupation, then to Roman Catholicism prior to his death.

In short, Albania as a soveriegn independent state did not exist prior to 1913. Albania's hero, Skender Beg & the Albanian flag are of Serbian origin.

Just wanted to clarify some things.

Just wanted to clarify some things.
(Serbian American, 8 December 2007 08:09)

SA,
the only thing accurate in your post are the dates for ww1 and ww2. the reason those even came up was because a previous poster suggested that albanians had their land taken away from them because of who they sided with during those wars and i told him that the land had been snatched prior to both wars.

Bring it on. NATO should have occupied Serbia in 1999 looks like the time is coming.

Kosovo must become independent NOW

ANY country would do the same thing...what is so difficult to understand? Srbija is protecting itself, not invading any other country. albanians better take the autonomy plan or they will be left with far less

'Legal means also include war' says Mr Simic. Please try it Alexander Simic!!! You'll lose, Presheva, Medvegja, Bujanoc and Vojvodina as well this time. That would cut Serbia to size.

I bet you anything that his BOSS has told him to publicly make such statemaant.Since the end is in site, they will do and say anything but war, because they know it well that starting another war will take Serbia to abyss.

Go on DS, have go at him. He is willing to fight.
Who is he going to fight against, unarmed civilians again?
I bet that he is going to contact Mladic to lead his assault/
Is anyone going to listen to him?
Are they going to turn around and remove him from the offiec?

I think that consulting Princip and Kate, International law interpreters for Serbia, would help him a lot.
Kosovars reading this said: I have no place to go. I am staying home and wait for him and his consultants to come.

Simic acts as his masters voice.
Here the real face of Mr Kostunica shows. Ready to bring Serbia to a next defeat, with destruction and mass killings. It seems the Serbia is doomed to have such leaders.
With this kind of rhetoric Serbia will remain the darkest place in Europe. I feel sorry for the ordinary citizens, who will pay the price.

Yep, when all else fails Serbia goes back to what it does best, which is War.

Who exactly are you going to fight Sir?

Security and Defence in Kosova is NATO's responsibility, and they wont like you meddling in Kosova's affairs.

As an K.Albanian I thank you Mr.Simic!

Oh sure yeah lets start another war. But remember what Boris Tadic said " If we start another war, we will loose another war". This also means that you lost all the wars, just as a reminder.
But I wonder who would fight for Serbia since the fighters of the 1999 war are still not paid and are protesting everyday.

IF serbia will send troops to Northern Part of Kosova where serbs resides, i think UCKMB should take control of Preseva valley area. If this happen it means another war in the area. Serbs cant afford another international war with international community.

"“At a time when Serbia has pledged itself as a factor of peace and stability in the negotiating process, Simić, in his role as prime ministerial adviser, comes out with these menacing, dangerous comments that jeopardize Serbia’s position before the Security Council, sending the message that warmongering was being conducted in Serbia,” reads a DS statement."

Little does DS know that this guy is paid by K-Albanian lobby to say these words. More warmongers among Serbia's politics, better for the cause of Kosova's independence. At least some people at DS understand that.

Smic said; "When someone fails to respect the Security Council, the only body that ought to react in times when there is a threat of aggression and war, particularly when someone does not observe Chapter VII of the United Nations Charter and the resolution that was adopted in line with it, then there is nothing else a country can do,"
Mr. Simic and Co. did you consult Security Council (since you respect it) for intervention in Kosovo in 1998-99, when 800,000 Albanians were expeled and around 100,000 houses were set on fire, and many killing happend.
You are HEARTRENDING man.
Shame, a big shame for humanity.

Of course it does. Interesting to know what USA, UK, ... would do if they had been in RS place?!

Nice speech... all the cards are opened now from serbian side that was so eager for compromise but is falling deep in war threats. Is a blackmail of course, but coming from a high official so close to primeminister it will have a devastating impact in the future relations of Serbia with international community. That\s a mad statement. God helps us from such politicians

It should be clear to everyone that, what drove Serbia to war in the 90's was the result of the AVNOJ resolution from 29-11-43 where the KPJ ripped Serbia into (3) republics and (2)autonomous regions (within Serbia), while excluding the Serbs, from other areas in the former Yugoslavia, priveledge to autonomy as well.

As far as "war mongering", nobody like to go to war and based on the voter turnout of the K&M elections (where independence was the main campaign pitch), neither does the majority of the population there. However, every country in the world has a right to protect & defend their territorial integrity and sovereignty within international law. Statements from the DS camp implies that Serbia does not and outside of that law?? Why does Serbia have an army if not to protect and defend it's territory? Statements like that only encourages the seperatists not to negotiate and takes away from the "efforts" committed to finding a peacefull solution.

Simic is just stating the obvious just as the US Presidential hopeful stated;

"Use our military not as the solution to every problem but as one element in a comprehensive strategy. As president, I will never hesitate to use force to protect Americans or to defend our territory and our vital interests. We cannot negotiate with individual terrorists; they must be hunted down and captured or killed. "
- page 2, Security and Opportunity for the Twenty-first Century, Hillary Rodham Clinton, From Foreign Affairs, November/December 2007
http://www.foreignaffairs.org/20071101faessay86601-p10/hillary-rodham-clinton/security-and-opportunity-for-the-twenty-first-century.html

Equally President Tadic should be just as clear that Diplomacy is our way forward but that
"As president, I will never hesitate to use force to protect "Serbians" or to defend our territory and our vital interests"

Those who act agains international norms and laws will be the ones who act in an agressive and occupying action and from that perspective Simic is absolutely right and should be highlighted to those who would wish to force the partition of the Serbian Republic.

Thank you Mr. Simic.

It's about time someone from the government sent a clear message to albanians.

Serbia has the right to defend itself.

What is this man thinking? Has he forgoten that Serbia was forcefully kicked out of Kosovo! It is a shame that the fate of millions of Serbs is being placed in the hands of these dangerous individuals. This dangerous, adviser lacks the sense of responsibility.

The Serb president makes a pledge to the international community that no violence will be used in determining the Kosovo status and here he comes undermining his own president. And Kosovars are suppose to trust that these men will abide by their signed agreements. Not in a million years. Independence is the only way forward that ensures the safety, stability and economic development for the Kosovo citizens.

Spot on, spot on.

Oh dear, Oh dear, this is all sounding very grim indeed. And with many of the K-Albanians adopting a "bring 'em on" attitude, it is hard to know where it will all end. And it is very worrying.

Those who recognise my name will know from previous posts that I fully support the Serbian position on Kosovo. But then, whatever happens will not directly affect me as I am 2,500km away.

But yet, but yet, like all those directly involved I am a European - one with a deep affection for the whole
Balkan region which only grows with each visit I make. So I feel involved.

The only tools we have in guiding relations between peoples are the hard-won principles of international law. These are by no means perfect but they are all we have. The alternative is war and mayhem.

A unilateral declaration of independence by the Kosovars, followed by the piecemeal recognition of this by various states, would inflict a potentially fatal blow to the authority of the UN which has already been shaken by US actions in Iraq. It would unleash a free-for-all, with interests everywhere feeling justified in ignoring charters, resolutions, whatever. And wouldn't they be right, with international law in shreds.

maybe they include war, but they were tried by miloshevic and it didnt work, it was even counter productive.

so you dont scare no one any more serbia, not internationals, not albanians, no one, instead you should be scared, Kosovo is going

I am not sure what "Serbia needs to defend itself" means. I thought Simic was talking about fighting with Kosovo, in Kosovo, if UDI happens. In that case, I feel that would be same as saying " we will fight against, the US, Germany, Italy, France, UK and on and on, whoever has troops in Kosovo". I must admit, that is a great move from Serbia.

Come on Serbia, that's it, show your true face.
You and Koshtunica heading the way, are helping us in the EU realise, there is no option to Kosovos Indipendence.
We feel no different to what we felt '99. And Serbia doesen't seem to have changed much, so why should the International Comunity?

To be honest with you guys, I was expecting this article to come up a couple of weeks ago.

They started talking about cutting off ties with whoever recognize Kosova and then economic blockade and finally WAR.
Well, if this last one doesn't work you have no more options left...Think about it

Why Albanians comment negatively on this since only few months ago they were crying help from the West to speed up the independence and therat by using the force if decision on status is prolonged more. Serbia has every right to defend the Serbs in Kosovo if KFOR fail to do it.

Daniel,

Your country committed atrocious crimes againt 2 millions of ITS OWN CITIZENS. You dared to do something criminal what no other country dared to do. As a result the international community dares to take away Kosovo from you like state authorities take away a child from mistreating parents, parents not dign of that name.
So don't resort to polemic. Serbia's case is unique. It can not be compared to any other country.

It is true that war can be legal - the humanitarian interventions against Serbia (in particular) were justified by the international community because the paramilitary forces under the loose control of Milosevic were breaking the rules of war.

Croatia was advised by the US to clean up its act and as a consequence received the support that enabled it to take over Krajina. Milosevic and many of his generals never took the hint, and then continued to play political games with the international community. It was the belief that they would not follow international law that justified the bombing campaign.

Serbia's worst problem is dealing with the results of the actions of those who thought they could get away with breaking the rules of war. They did a lot to harm Serbia's good name.

However, Serbia is gradually recovering from those times and is taking a legal and democratic path. Violence is an option in defending its territory - but I expect it will not be used. I do not want to see war. However, note that war would be legal if independence is declared and 1244 is broken - as long as the rules of war are followed.

The best answer is for both sides to agree to negotiate a solution. They need to use the best arbitrators available - probably there are enough diplomats and politicians in the EU who are still sufficiently neutral on the issue. It may take a long time to reach an accommodation - but if they do then the economic and political paths are clear for a good future.

Of course, it would help Serbia's case if Mladic would give himself up - or better still, be arrested by the Serbian government.

Looks like this guy has learned from Ahmedi Nejad.

There is an Albanian proverb that goes "a wolf will change his hair [color] but not forget his habits."

another smart move by serbia
keeps getting better and better

Wasn't the rhetoric last year before Russia's confirmed backing that Serbia would reject any attempt by the UNSC to grant independence to Kosovo. Now with Russia assuring a veto the UNSC is the only one that can make decisions concerning Kosovo. I wonder what the rhetoric would be should Russia change courses? Princip this is your true tangled web you love to talk about.

War is a last resort. What does IC expect? If Kosovo doesn't gain indpendence will Pristina just roll over & give up? I think not. Not with the talk of unrest (aka war) if they don't get indpendence. Serbia has thrown everything but the kitchen sink at Pristina during these talks & it still wasn't enough. Serbia has no choice anymore & may have have to use its last resort. Win or lose, Serbia will not watch it's territory ripped away from them & not fight back.

Finally it came out...
The try face of serbia's government..

good luck (i think you will need it).

oh ! boy that scary story "war as a legal way".looks like serbian goverement really last in nowhere land?that you call worst hypocrasy

The west had better not underestimate Serbia’s will to preserve its province. It would be another blunder added to the countless blunders the west has made regarding the Balkans.

Serbia has the legal right to use any and all means to defend its territory. The Serbs went up against the Ottoman Empire over Kosovo who by the way in its time was 4 to 5 times a greater power than NATO is today, and the Serbs in that time were at least 4 to 5 times weaker than today. What makes the West feel that today’s Serbia will let Kosovo go without war? I am not advocating war, far from it, all I am saying is make no mistake about it, the WAR option has always been on the table and if it happens, the West will have a very difficult time explaining to their citizens why they are at War with Serbia and possibly Russia, good luck in explaining we are at WAR because the Serbs refuse to give 15% of their country to Muslim Albanians. No matter how you spin it the people of the West will not buy it, especially in the USA since recently it has been officially discovered that Iran does not have a Nuclear weapons program in spite of Bushes constant noise that they do and that the USA should attack Iran and start what would probably be a 20 year war with them. Bush has now lost 100% of all his creditability, good luck to him in trying to sell a Balkan war now, especially because the law is clearly in favor of Serbia and not the USA.

To the Albanian side; if the IC said they will give you independence tomorrow if you agreed to the partition of the north to Serbia & the respect of all minority rights & cultral sites would you take it?

Threatening to use force, with NATO being in Kosovo?

Imagine how much 'rougher' the Serbian state language would have been without NATO in Kosovo. Just imagine Seselj and co saying Albanians will be 'deported to their real motherland.'

And then we hear of a civilized, transformed and democratic Serbia...

If it had not been for NATO and the West, I bet this government would have been no different to Milosevic's. This is PRECISELY why we cannot and will not EVER live under one legal roof with such states. Thank you for your autonomial offers - but NO, thank you!!

We'll get a state of our own, and a force to protect us. There might not be good political appetite at present to have a strong Kosovo army, yet in the medium-term NATO will most probably opt out for a robust indigenous military force for Kosovo to balance the regional power of Serbia and to be able to pull out its own troops.

At present our insurance policy is tenable - dare attack NATO, and we'll just watch the show.

In the medium-term, we'll most certainly have a robust defense force that will withstand Serbian military pressure.

Without a strong Kosovo military, and with NATO gone in the future, Serbia will always try to blackmail us.

Slowly but surely we are on the eve of wrapping up our greatest national project - and once we get the state, a strong defense force will no doubt be forthcoming.

We're patient...

Aww just admit it already. Serbia is stuck between a rock and a hard place. They can use "legal means" all they want and change nothing. They can try using military force and get crushed by NATO (70% of which is controlled by the USA which is the biggest supporter of Kosovar independence).

I do not think there is any sane politician in Belgrade, besides Tomislav Nikolic, who seriously thinks they can engage NATO militarily and win. Although some Serb politicians actually make such statements, I am sure that they do not privately believe that military force is a viable option. NATO is not a guerrilla army...they are the most professional soldiers in the world.

This guy is exactly saying how it is. How can you expect a country not to use force if all legal means do not work. If tomorrow all the mexicans in California said that they were going to declare independence along with the help of the mexican army, do you honestly think that the so called democratic country USA would not defend its territory. I dont understand the statement made by the DS representative saying that this is dangerous. Of course war is dangerous and Serbia does not need more war, however, when your land is on the verge of being stolen, you are going to defend it! If it was up to the DS or LDP, kosovo would have already been independent!

my dear albanian friends, ...that´s what your US-american-"friends" seem to hope for... a new armed conflict ( the only reason for them to justify their further presence in the Balkans )
and you would be the losers, since Serbia will never give up it´s cultural heartland.

it seems like that all depends on the K-albanians themselves, if they are smart enough to chose broad autonomy, they will enjoy the maximm possible, if not... all sides will lose.

I would like to ask Mr. Tadic and the DS exactly what does the Serbian Army defend? Obviously not Serbian land nor its own citizens. Maybe President Tadic believes the Serbian Army exists to protect Nato and fight for the interests of the United States. He would love to send Serbian men to fight in Iraq & Afganistan.

The Article 51 of the UN Charter allows Serbia to take all necessary measures, including seeking military assistance from other UN members:

"Nothing in the present Charter shall impair the inherent right of individual or collective self-defence if an armed attack occurs against a Member of the United Nations, until the Security Council has taken measures necessary to maintain international peace and security. Measures taken by Members in the exercise of this right of self-defence shall be immediately reported to the Security Council and shall not in any way affect the authority and responsibility of the Security Council under the present Charter to take at any time such action as it deems necessary in order to maintain or restore international peace and security. "

In case of violation of UNSEC Resolution 1244, NATO forces on Serbian soil are agressors.

All players at the table are fully aware of that fact.

Does this sound like bluffing, or is it just me? And you people still believe him?

Come on! And you call this diplomacy? Is this your way of finding a common ground for the future?

This is going to be a suicide for Serbia. No one wants to go to war with NATO.
If Serbia was able to "defend" Kosovo then it should've done so in 1999.

C`mon! Books are closed and every serbian politician knows it. Those declarations are only for the elections! Serbia attacking NATO....funny joke!

So it's ok for Pristina to threaten with unrest (aka war) if they don't get independence. But Serbia should just roll over. We are just taking a page out of Pristinas illeagle independence handbook.

Wow some 49 comments about the statement of a suicidal man, statement suggested by his master warmonger Kostunica. Naturally nobody is surprised that known hard-liners like Princip, Ratko, Delije, Jovan and Bob Petrovich - some of them confortably far from Serbia - fully agree with such lunatic suggestion. These Serbian Don Quixotes want to attack the NATO in Kosovo.
Well this shows the world that in Serbia nothing changed.

there will be no war, you are all commenting on a subject that won't happen besides the fact the people who are doing all the talking are not even in Serbia or Kosovo.

I can't believe that someone actually believes that Serbia will consider war. This is just noise, the last round of noises that Serbia can make before Kosovo becomes de jure independent.
The next move is embargo, and finally this sad chapter of history will be closed.

There we have it. The leadership of Serbia hasn't changed the views towards Albanians. You can't view people as second class and have no problem using military might against them and expect them to want to be a part of your entity (state). All these talks have just been nonsense.

There were only two realistic solutions here with the available tools.

Kick 2 million Albanians out so the land belongs to Serbia. Hopefully, free of any compensation to Kosovars. As we can safely assume; an Albanian is worthless to the Serbian leadership.

The other solution is let the people stay and be independent of this leadership.

It is interesting,

Did you fight for that law in Slovenia, Croatia, Bosna, Kosova and now again Kosova?
Is that law made just for you?

The only tools we have in guiding relations between peoples are the hard-won principles of international law. These are by no means perfect but they are all we have. The alternative is war and mayhem.

tom,
where was international law back in 1913 when kosove, eastern macedonia, southern montenegro and northern greece were snatched from albanians? if not for the US and president woodrow wilson, we'd have lost albania proper.
how about we go back to ireland a little over a little over 100 years ago
and raise the UNION JACK over dublin?
get real!

Mark...regarding 1913, Kosovo was illegally given to albanians then too. Show me ONE monument, One structure that dates back farther than a Serbian one and i'll say "yes, Kosovo is yours". Just show me ONE peice of evidence. You people had no structured community in Kosovo. And you piggy back off of Serbian history and try to make it somehow significant to albanains and hijack it as "albanians". Its a joke and nobody in the world will say that Kosovo wasnt Serbian besides albanians. This joke of dardania is just pathetic. Kosovo is Srbija.
(Obilic, 6 December 2007 20:38)

sure. i posted it on another article here but it hasn't appeared yet and may not due to it's content.
i said that we should scrape a few layers of paint off of the frescoes in those churches. let's see if we don't find that they were once albanian catholic churches prior to the turks.
regardless, keep in mind that the serbs are outsiders to the region. the albanians are not so we can go back as far as you'd like and the end result is the same. you're simply not native to the balkans.

the main reason why we are here today is simple Albania choose to support the axis powers during WW1 and WW2 where both times they were on the losing side and lost territory.

you may want to research your history, sir. both ww1 and ww2 took place before 1913. unless you're suggesting that their land was taken away from them years before the war because the war was anticipated?
here's one theory: albania was invaded by the italians and occupied! also, even if they joined the axis powers it was done because it's no secret that germans dislike serbs and i'm sure they did it because it was the surest way of getting their land returned.

I don't think the Helsinki Final Act (dealing with sovereignty and the inviolability of national borders) was around in 1913 or any time before that. It was 1975 in fact. So if you want to go back 100 years, why not 500 years?

why not 500 years? as the previous poster suggested, we can go back and quote the bible where it's mention that paul visited illyricum. i'm sure, as always, you deny that albanians are the direct decendants of the ancient illyrians. do we need to go back any further?

Romans 15:19 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)
Public Domain



19Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.

nobody will seriously believe that nonsense!

if those serbian churches and monasteries were "catholic albanian" prior to the turks"... so, ...just tell us all, ...why were they built in byzantine style? ( by the way, if you would inform you at all, you would have learned that this style is internationally called the serbian style...)

so, the bottom line is: what you tried to post here is stupid propaganda, without the slightest bit of credibility.


by the way a question to you, my dear "mark":

if those churches were albanian before... WHY are the Albanians burning them down now???

jovan,
churches can easily be renovated to suit the new parishers. just like the turks converting churches into mosques. are you being serious or do you have that much time on your hands?

also,
if you've read in my previous posts, that was why i said what those albanians did was WRONG and i did not condone it. not because some of them were albanian at one time but because it's wrong to burn down anyone's place of worship.

goran simic, are you a historian?

if yes, a very scarce one.

What about Ptolemy, writing about the Albanoi and their town Albanopolis situated in the today Central Albania in the II cent. a.D.? Or he was a biased pro-Albanian historian?

Should we ask where was Serbia by that time?

gomar,
the proof of albanains being decendants of the ancient illyrians has been proven on numerous occassions. scholars have written books on this topic throughout europe and the west. it just so happens that these books are not on library shelves in belgrade or athens.
look it up and you shall see for yourself.

What about Ptolemy, writing about the Albanoi and their town Albanopolis situated in the today Central Albania in the II cent. a.D.? Or he was a biased pro-Albanian historian?

Should we ask where was Serbia by that time?
(genc, 7 December 2007 20:40)

genc,
sadly, i fear you're wasting your breath attempting to reason w/some people. we could have an unbiased 3rd party prove it to them and they still would not believe it because it's been breed into their culture for many centuries.

Dear God, no. No more wars.

Our apologies to all our visitors who commented on the news stories on our website during the course of the afternoon – we were unable to moderate and post them sooner due to technical problems.

Thank you for your patience and contribution,

B92

btw, NATO isnt what it was in 1999....It seems they are more occupied by Afghanastan and Iraq, they honestly have more at stake there than they do in Kosovo. Law is law, and rules are rules, they apply to everyone. Should you declare independence, then 1244 is void and Nato troops are invaders of Serbian soil. Nato knows what crisis is possible and they will "throw the albanians under the bus" so to speak if you declare independence. CCCC

God bless the US of A. KA's seem to want to tie their very tiny boat to the big ship of the USA. The USA kills more people 'legally' than any "civilized" country in the world.... I think most people in the world would disagree with the practices of the US, except Kosovo, they feel that anything the US does is the way it should be....

Look at this the Albanians are clearly telling the world
that if they do not get independence they will blackmail us and start causing violence and war this has been stated by Phristina I think even the Albanians on this forum can say this much right? And yet they make comments like oh Serbia is showing her true face now.If Serbs were trying to slipt from traditional Albanian land you would do everything to defend it right? There is not a logical person on earth except the US and Albanians whom think Serbia should not protect herself.And remember the reason the Serbian army left Kosovo is because NATO started terror bombing civillians it was to save lives not the military.

And who said that Serbia is not the test case for international law!
What happens in Serbia will happen in every country around the globe.
Every country has the right to defend its sovereign territory in a peaceful manner of dialogue and diplomacy but if that is exhausted and if no-one listens to reason and in Serbia's case 15% of its territory is ripped from it.....and that 15% is its very spiritual ancestral heartland then Mr. Simic has every right to make this statement.

People in albanians forum are critics to albanian government for not taking any political actions towards such statements from serbia. Serbians are just making rumors and noise because they will never try to attack Nato troops in Dardania. Albanian government need to get incluted on this mess just because we have nato to protect us, otherwise albanian government would have responded to any war citations in the region. Albania and Dardania after five years will be joining in a union and serbia will have nothing that can do about it,

i have to be honest about this -- way back... yesterday, i sent a comment about the soft-to-hard measures. i explained: as for the "soft" approach, that is accurate ("do nothing") though unlikely. but as for the real "hard" option, that was NOT honest; the real hard option was war, and all of the attending horrors that we were forced to watch (or experience!) during the 90s. and now kostunica's advisor spells it out. is it possible that i am psychic?? :- )
(happy hanukkah, everyone, from san francisco)

NATO: Nuclear-armed American Armed Forces + Nuclear-armed British Armed Forces + Nuclear-armed French Armed Forces + German Armed Forces, on of the biggest of Europe.

Serbia: some Armed Forces.

I just can say to you: GOOD LUCK! You’ll need it A LOT, you know.

“what drove Serbia to war in the 90's was the result of the AVNOJ resolution from 29-11-43 where the KPJ ripped Serbia into (3) republics and (2)autonomous regions (within Serbia)”

Sorry, but this is a lie.

What drove Serbia to war in the 1990’s was the dictatorial policies of SLOBODAN MILOSEVIC, with the help from the opportunist politicians, the Serbian-dominated Yugoslav Army, the fanatic nationalist “intellectuals” from S.A.N.U., the fanatic priests from the Serbian Orthodox Church, the experienced contract-killers (Arkan), the Serbian Mafia and the hooligans of the Red Star Belgrade.

" KA's seem to want to tie their very tiny boat to the big ship of the USA. The USA kills more people 'legally' than any "civilized" country in the world.... I think most people in the world would disagree with the practices of the US, except Kosovo, they feel that anything the US does is the way it should be....--(International Observer"

Really? So why did the Italians, Spanish, Romanians, Austrians, Germans, British, Dutch and several other E European nations send troops to Iraq and Afghanistan in support of US policy. lol...looks like 2/3's of Europe tied their very tiny boat to the big ship of the USA. Also, if the USA "kills" so many people "legally", why does Serbia and a few other nations who object to US policy, accept any crumb of aid the US sends their way? Seriously, if you want to criticize the United States for supporting self determination and humanitarian armed action to stop ethnic cleansing and ethnic murders, you need to make sure that the other big nations of the world conforms to the policy of criticism you state and follows through on their beliefs, as with Russia or China. But, their record on human rights is dismally atrocious in comparision. You need to refrain from making blanket generalizations without thinking of the obvious pitfalls in your statements.


"Law is law, and rules are rules, they apply to everyone. Should you declare independence, then 1244 is void and Nato troops are invaders of Serbian soil. Obilic"

Where have you been for the last 8 years? What you say is a matter of Serbia's medieval perspective, not fact.

Why is everybody getting so worked about this guy's comments? Serbia will not go to war over Kosovo, they will not recognize Kosovo and maybe impose a trade embargo in the event of independence, but they won't go off and fight again. The Albanians will also not go to war over independence.

Nobody wants another war, I am sure the average Serb and the average Albanian are sick and tired of war as well and have their own lives to attend to, which are far more important in their minds than what their nationalist governments and some extremist groups on both sides are saying.

Albanians and Serbs: give the nationalism and hatred a rest, respect the rights of your minorities and learn to coexist peacefully, because this is getting ridiculous!

Joe,...

those lies don´t help you at all.
who is talking of Serbia attacking NATO?

NATO is bound to international law, if it is not willing to lose the last tiny bit of credibility.
so if those who wish to steal foreign territory by simply calling it theirs, not only NATO but also the UN will have to act in line with international law.

it´s interesting that you are quick in writing such a defamation here, but uncapable of informing yourself...

if some albanian "hero" (...or should I rather say snake-brain? ) should "declare" a pseudo-independence, the UNMIK authorities would have to act against it, if Mr.Ruecker failed to do so, Mr.Moon would have the duty to replace Mr.Ruecker and overrule his omission.
if even Mr.Moon failed to act against illegal steps, the UNSC would have to take care of Mr. Moon.

I don´t believe Mr.Moon is that naive.

once again: please stop those accusations and threats. they only show YOUR desperation and hatred, you´re only doing harm to yourself!

Why shouldn't Serbia fight to protect its territory? The US does more than just fight when its interests are threatened. Imagine what it would do if a part of the US tried to declare independence...

Joe (Post 64)

I don't know where you get your information but you are deluded. If Serbia is "unique" today, then it'll be somewhere else tomorrow and somewhere else again the day after that.
All that's going on here is a strategic plan by the US and NATO to have a permanent military presence at the heart of the Balkans.
It must have escaped your attention that in recent years the US have been establishing military bases in every available location adjacent to the Middle/Near East. Now I wonder why that is?

Tom,

Nothing escapes my attention.
And wow we don't have a military base in Irlande. How can we survive without it? You would say it is not possible because we are a neutral country. Well we could find ways to get around it. But the reason is that you are a small insignificant country. Too many of yours left for the US in the XIX century and that was beneficial for you. Your immigrants lefy behind famine, misery and a less overcrowded land. Without that you would be overcrowded like Bangladesh requireing massive economic support from the US and your good neigbour the UK, who still provides jobs to 1 million of your citizens.

Mark...regarding 1913, Kosovo was illegally given to albanians then too. Show me ONE monument, One structure that dates back farther than a Serbian one and i'll say "yes, Kosovo is yours". Just show me ONE peice of evidence. You people had no structured community in Kosovo. And you piggy back off of Serbian history and try to make it somehow significant to albanains and hijack it as "albanians". Its a joke and nobody in the world will say that Kosovo wasnt Serbian besides albanians. This joke of dardania is just pathetic. Kosovo is Srbija.

“what drove Serbia to war in the 90's was the result of the AVNOJ resolution from 29-11-43 where the KPJ ripped Serbia into (3) republics and (2)autonomous regions (within Serbia)”

"Sorry, but this is a lie.

What drove Serbia to war in the 1990’s was the dictatorial policies of SLOBODAN MILOSEVIC, with the help from the opportunist politicians, the Serbian-dominated Yugoslav Army, the fanatic nationalist “intellectuals” from S.A.N.U., the fanatic priests from the Serbian Orthodox Church, the experienced contract-killers (Arkan), the Serbian Mafia and the hooligans of the Red Star Belgrade.
(Bad Gorilla, 6 December 2007 06:16)"

Sir/Madam,

You need to dig deeper if you want to discard my fact based opinion as a "lie". Your explaination of the truth is quite shallow to say the least.

Have a nice day.

Mark:
I don't think the Helsinki Final Act (dealing with sovereignty and the inviolability of national borders) was around in 1913 or any time before that. It was 1975 in fact. So if you want to go back 100 years, why not 500 years?
Joe:
Could you possibly deal with the issues rather than just disgracing yourself with your puerile insults against my country.

Thanks

"I don't think the Helsinki Final Act (dealing with sovereignty and the inviolability of national borders) was around in 1913 or any time before that. It was 1975 in fact. So if you want to go back 100 years, why not 500 years?
Could you possibly deal with the issues rather than just disgracing yourself with your puerile insults against my country. Thanks (Tom O'Donoghue"

500, why bother, let's go back to 1 AD. Show us this Serbia or any Slavic tribe in the Balkans map of that year.

the main reason why we are here today is simple Albania choose to support the axis powers during WW1 and WW2 where both times they were on the losing side and lost territory. Serbia then Yugoslavia support the US, British and the French and gain territory. Now role reversal because NATO blasted Serbia and yes rebuilt what they destroyed they are famous for that. Now everyone thinks there will be a war. Yea all of you guys in Pristina bring it on yep when the shooting starts people will head south to macedonia or west to Albania. The world is not going to be so generous this time when you declare independence and bring trouble to your door step. NATO will say not my fight EU step up and EU will head back to Germany not my fight. think about it and not listen to these idiots who say Bring it on when you sorry arse will head for Macedonia when the shooting starts. Again those commanders of blace will resurface and claimed they fought but were in Macedonia hiding.

Joe,

As a Hungarian nationalist, How do you feel about Transylvania, BiH and Vojvodina? Should they be brought back under the Hungarian fold?

"i said that we should scrape a few layers of paint off of the frescoes in those churches. let's see if we don't find that they were once albanian catholic churches prior to the turks.
regardless, keep in mind that the serbs are outsiders to the region. the albanians are not so we can go back as far as you'd like and the end result is the same. you're simply not native to the balkans.
(mark, 6 December 2007 21:09)"


mark,...

nobody will seriously believe that nonsense!

if those serbian churches and monasteries were "catholic albanian" prior to the turks"... so, ...just tell us all, ...why were they built in byzantine style? ( by the way, if you would inform you at all, you would have learned that this style is internationally called the serbian style...)

so, the bottom line is: what you tried to post here is stupid propaganda, without the slightest bit of credibility.


by the way a question to you, my dear "mark":

if those churches were albanian before... WHY are the Albanians burning them down now???


you have just disqualified yourself, my dear.

I had read this whole article before any comments had even been posted. it is quite interesting to see the opposing views. I'm completely dumb-founded as to how people who actually read the article, and post comments which are based on truths (ie Princip, and others) are attacked and seen as some sort of serbian facists who are of the milosevic era. Im sorry but i have to say, they are the ones who comment with truths. I have to address certain aspects of these comments.

1. Serbia, Macedonia, Montenegro, Greece and Albania

The albanians on this site all claim that land was stolen from them. Yet they are too stubborn (thats how HUMANS are) to recognise truths. As with all the countries mentioned above, they have all traced back their historical roots. The albanians how ever have not set recorded root, they all claim to be illyrians. I'm sorry, but this seems ridiculous. Had any albanians been present during the earlier centuries then yes then they might have had some sort of argument. Take a look at a map of the balkans during the 800's AD. Please note that at that period of time the Byzantine empire was in control of most of the area. Serbia was known as Servia.. montenegro was not yet created as the serbian prince was not born yet. Macedonia was around - the birth place of alexander the great - greek. Now please note that albanians were no where to be seen. Everyone else was there but albanians were no where. For all we know, the belief that you are of illyrian decent could be completely wrong, heck you even could be decendents of the roma (no offence). Thats the thing, as at the time when the rest of those countries were still around, or their ancestors were... you guys werent any where. At first i couldnt understand it and yes i did end up having to look through various published sources, with atleast 90% being books. Surely enough, albania was not there; rather it was the countries as mentioned above, or their ancestors. So if anyone was stealing land, i can bet my soul that it was not the countries listed above.

2. America.
I cannot believe people. OK, im going to inform you all again.....serbia was at war with who? SEPERATIST albanians(want someone to blame?) at the same time it was at war with the rest of the seperatist states - all triggered by slovenia (according to you guys,im guessing serbia told slovenia to get out of yugo?) OK so what role did america play in this? Simple. Note that allegience... America, Britain, France, and the others. Now who was against serbia during the war? The americans(oh look you learn something new everyday). Now at the same time, who are the people that own the worlds media? They are all from the american backing sides including america itself. So was it not the enemy of serbia covering the war? Wow! interesting much?
Now down to the case of "war crimes." People who dare accuse serbia of war crimes (JNA soldiers commited the crimes) yet at the same time they consider the americans to be saints have to be the most ignorant people to exist. I'm sorry, let me ask you something? The albanians and the rest of the american backers supported iraq am i right? Why is it that no weapons of mass distruction were ever found? why is that now most of the lieutenants and other high ranked american army officials, as well as politicans are now considering it to be the biggest blunder in american history? Why is it that you all attack iran for wanting to harness nuclear power? How dare america accuse other countries of attempting to destroy any hope of world peace.... May i ask how many atomic bombs were dropped on japan? 2! Thats right, 2. The americans accuse others of evil intentions yet they are so completely pig headed that they dont consider the murder of around 210,000 civilians a war crime? Ignorance is bliss people. You all talk about war crimes and consider america to be perfect. Roughly 110,000 people lost their lives during the balkan wars, you cannot sit here and tell me that serbians were not amongst the dead. NATO shelled serbia with depleted uranium and many other things which were completely against all the rules of war, and all because they were defending themselves from seperatists.

3. Kosovo.
You are all quick to jump at the serbs and accuse them of everything. You are the ones who accuse us of war crimes. Not that the KLA are guerilla forces. They have no sort of uniforms and use anything at their disposal. What about hasim thaci? He is now leading kosovo yet he though against serbs. How interesting how he offers K Serbs autonomy... why not split kosovo in half? Thats because its clear that he wants to create a greater albania.

What can i say? Kosovo has always been serbian... simic is right, war is a legal option...

gomar,
the proof of albanains being decendants of the ancient illyrians has been proven on numerous occassions. scholars have written books on this topic throughout europe and the west. it just so happens that these books are not on library shelves in belgrade or athens.
look it up and you shall see for yourself.
(mark, 7 December 2007 20:44)

Yes mark, those books must be located only in albania.

The fact remains that albans are trying to steal something that DOES NOT belong to them. And america is "supporting" albans because they want to have an army base in Serbia. america attacked Serbia in the most cowardly and illegal way, in order to accomplish this.

We won't ever forget the nato crimes committed on our people!

To Mark:

Actually, everything west, north & east of the river Drin, and everything east of the river Black Drin is considered Serbian territory. Albania actually received more territory after WWI regardless of it's affiliation with the Central Powers. And, you should also know that Essad Pasha was a great friend of Serbia & Greece.

And, just so we get it straight; WWI was from 1914-1918 and WWII was from 1941-1945. Albania was declared independent in 1913. There is no knowledge of an Albanian state prior to 1913. It was known as a Republic of Mirdita in 1921, an Albanian Republic from 1925-1928, an Albanian Kingdom from 1928 to 1939, an Italian quisling state from 1939 to 1943 and a Communist republic from 1946 to 1992.

Furthermore, the Albanian flag is actually a Serbian territorial flag from the late Middle Ages (14th century)belonging to Djura Kastriotich(or Skender Beg or Giorgi Kastriota as Albanians refer to him). Kastriotich's father is buried on Hilendar Serbian Orthodox monastery grounds on Holy Mount in Greece. Skender Beg himself was an officer in the Serbian Imperial Army who later willingly converted to Islam under Turkish occupation, then to Roman Catholicism prior to his death.

In short, Albania as a soveriegn independent state did not exist prior to 1913. Albania's hero, Skender Beg & the Albanian flag are of Serbian origin.

Just wanted to clarify some things.

Just wanted to clarify some things.
(Serbian American, 8 December 2007 08:09)

SA,
the only thing accurate in your post are the dates for ww1 and ww2. the reason those even came up was because a previous poster suggested that albanians had their land taken away from them because of who they sided with during those wars and i told him that the land had been snatched prior to both wars.