Skopje "ready to give up claim to Alexander the Great"

If you name yourself after whole geographic region you are (in fact) making bold statement – many bold statements, in fact!

1- I (unilaterally) stake claim to whole region

2- I reserve the right to stake claim to whole region at some future date

3-The region is named after my forebears

4-The Place-Name describes my paternal ancestors tribal name

5- I claim historical rights and cultural-heritage rights of the whole region

6- I relegate downwards, the self-determination rights of other regional contenders

7- I claim all cultural endowments gifted from geographic region name

8- I reserve the right to write and rewrite historical narrative of whole geographic region

9- I reserve the right to raise monuments in the name of geographic regions powerful figureheads

By claiming the name of whole geographic region of Macedonia, FYRoM is (unilaterally) making bold statement(s) it cannot possibly live up to. Regardless the ramifications and consequences of their actions.

FYRoM (unilaterally) chose to name itself after the whole geographic region of Macedonia. Without consultation. And without consent of the regions native autochthonous inhabitants.

FYRoM sits on 38% of geographic region of Macedonia. But chose (unilaterally) to name itself after the whole.

The geographic region of Macedonian comprises of Greece 51% – FYRoM 38% – Bulgaria 11%. It is irrational for 38% to (unilaterally) claim the name of the whole.

alexander the great is greek and macedonia is in greece...not that fake macedonia,,,these fake macedonians live in dream....the world knows the true fact not fantasy.

The geographic region of Macedonia in Vardar, was an occupation. Why are none of you commenting on that fact? Phillip fought many battles with the Illyrian/Peonians etc, and finally they lost/submitted to him. Point being, there were tribes in FYROM that were not Macedonian nor did they speak their tongue. So if we should be called Macedonians because there was an occupying kingdom, then technically we can be called Bulgarians, Serbians or Turks.

We have to draw a line in the sand and say, hey what are we? I think its only logical to either rename it Paeonia or something that all share ie the Vardar river, aka Vardarija. As a Slav from
FYROM, we need to stop jumping on a Macedonian band wagon because A the great 'conquered' many regions, and instead look to historical facts.

If Macedonia gives up Alexander the Great, then Greece should also give him up along with all the other names that relate to Albanian/Illyrian history, not Greek history.
Greece should also change the name of the "King Pyrrhus" airport in Ioannina and give up the claim to 90% of the heroes of the Greek War of Independence, which were Arvanites/Albanians. Either remove their names from all the streets, squares and monuments or write their names in their Albanian mother tongue!

Lets say for the sake of the argument, if Alexander the Great somehow would return today and see what is happening, what would he do to these so called Makedonians,... well you are free to use your imagination

As for the Greeks, I think the same would apply..

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M99ze151HvA]

Given how FYR-Macedonia DOES sit on 38% of that territory that historically has been recognised as being of the Greek state of Macedonia, I'm wondering if calling it "Slavic-Macedonia" might placate the Greeks.

After all, I've absolutely no reason so far to believe that Greece wants to expel the Slavs from that territory and thus ethnically-cleanse it. Their sole objection is to FYR using the name Macedonia by itself, if I understand correctly.

Supplementary to all the historical arguments, FYRoM is unique in the world for naming itself (unilaterally) after whole geographic region. This action is construed as being unfriendly unneighbourly act. Because...
Scandinavia is a geographic region. But there is no country called 'Republic of Scandinavia'. There is no language called Scandinavian-language. And there are no ethnic-Scandinavians claiming self-determination rights.
Iberia is a geographic region. But there is no country called 'Republic of Iberia'. There is no language called Iberian-language. And there are no ethnic-Iberians claiming self-determination rights.
Baltic Rim is geographic region. But there is no country called 'Republic of Baltic Rim'. There is no language called Baltic-language. And there are no ethnic-Baltics claiming self-determination rights.
Carpathia region. There is no country called 'Republic of Carpathia. No language called Carpathian-language. No ethnic-Carpathians claiming self-determination rights.

Macedonia is geographic region. FYRoM covets the name. That is why FYRoM (unilaterally) chose to call itself 'Republic of Macedonia'. Without consultation(s). And without the consent of the regions native autochthonous people-groups. It's a very crude uncivilized unneighbourly unfriendly action. Because FYRoM constitutes just 38% of geographic region of Macedonia. So it is quite irrational for 38% to want to name itself after the whole.

People-Names. Place-Names. Identity. History. Heritage. Legacy. These things are (very) important to Europeans. More important to the people-groups who created (originated) them in the first place.

Pretenders to cultural endowments be concerned.

That is why FYRoM (unilaterally) chose to call itself 'Republic of Macedonia'. Without consultation(s). And without the consent of the regions native autochthonous people-groups.
(Nick the Greek, 27 December 2017 12:54)

Dear, a country has only to consult its own citizens about how they want to name the country. What other countries think is irrelevant!

"Dear, a country has only to consult its own citizens about how they want to name the country". What other countries think is irrelevant!
(icj1, 28 December 2017 19:49)

I think the citizens of FYRoM are so much more informed today. I think rational people can see the problem that has been created.

FYRoM has named itself after whole geographic region. The only one, in the whole world to do it. It is wrong on many levels. But the obvious one is this - FYRoM constitutes just 38% of geographic region of Macedonia. It is irrational for 38% to claim the name of whole region.

FYRoM has named itself after whole geographic region. The only one, in the whole world to do it. It is wrong on many levels.
(Nick the Greek, 29 December 2017 19:40)

There is nothing wrong about that and they are not the only one; it happens throughout the world. It's just that you are ignorant about that!

The 50 states of the USA have name themselves the United States of the whole geographic region even though there are many other states in the Americas that are not part of the USA.

South Africa names itself after the region with the same name that includes Botswana, Lesotho, Namibia, South Africa and Swaziland.

The Central African Republic names itself after the Central African region which includes Burundi, the Central African Republic, Chad, Democratic Republic of Congo and Rwanda.

Sudan names itself after the region with the same name that includes parts of Senegal, Mali, Burkina Faso, Niger, Nigeria, Ghana, Chad, Sudan and South Sudan.

Australia names itself after the continent with the same name that includes Australia, Papua New Guinea, Timor-Leste and parts of Indonesia.

There is nothing wrong about that and they are not the only one; it happens throughout the world. It's just that you are ignorant about that!
(icj1, 29 December 2017 21:17)

Not one of your examples elevate geographic region name to level(s) of (i) country-name
(Nick the Greek, 29 December 2017 22:59)

But they do! South Africa has named itself after whole South African region. Just because you close your eyes and refuse to see that South Africa exists because you don't like the facts that don't match the myths in your head, that does not change the facts. Facts are very stubborn and South Africa exists as a country, whether u like it or not.

I understand that u feel embarrassed that you were exposed as being totally ignorant about something that you wrote. It has a simple solution though: next time do some research before writing and don't assume that the myths in your head match the reality just because your gut feeling tells you that those myths sound true!

FYRoM has named itself after whole geographic region. The only one in the whole world to do it
(Nick the Greek, 31 December 2017 01:40)

But, I showed you several examples (USA, South Africa, Central African Republic, Sudan, Australia) which are all countries that have named themselves after whole geographic region.

I get it that the facts do not match the myth in your head about Macedonia being the only country naming itself after whole geographic region, but that's not the fault of the facts - it's the fault of your brain. However facts always win, and USA, South Africa, Central African Republic, Sudan, and Australia exist as countries, regardless of your brain's refusal to accept that!
----------

No native autochthonous people-groups close by, to contest country name South Africa
(Nick the Greek, 31 December 2017 01:40)

Exactly! Because few other people/groups, if any, are idiots like Greece to waste their time with how other countries name themselves. That's exactly the point lol

There is nothing wrong about that and they are not the only one; it happens throughout the world. It's just that you are ignorant about that!
(icj1, 29 December 2017 21:17)

Not one of your examples elevate geographic region name to level(s) of (i) country-name, (ii) sovereign state-name, (iii) nationality, (iv) language, (v) ethnicity. This is what makes FYRoM unique in the world. And this is supplementary to the (pseudo) historical arguments.

Historical arguments aside. FYRoM has named itself after whole geographic region. The only one in the whole world to do it, at country name level, sovereign state-name level, nationality level, language level, and ethnicity level. So it is wrong on many levels. But the obvious wrong is this - FYRoM constitutes just 38% of geographic region of Macedonia. It is irrational for 38% to claim the name of whole region.

The only other example I can think of that gets close to what FYRoM has done is South Africa. But there, there are no people-groups using 'South African' for ethnic identity. And there is no language called South African language. Most important, there are no objections. No native autochthonous people-groups close by, to contest country name South Africa, or nationality South African.

Propaganda arguments aside. I think the citizens of FYRoM are so much more informed today. I think rational people there can see the problem that has been created. I also think the peoples of FYRoM today, appreciate the importance Europeans place on their People-Names, Place-Names, Identity, History, Heritage, Legacy. These things are (very) important to Europeans. More important to the people-groups who created (originated) them in the first place.

Identity. Deriving identity from territory name is doable. But it has it's limitations. Deriving identity name from neighbouring peoples forebears is quirky. Unheard of. FYRoM is first in the world to do it.

Naming. Aside from territory name rights. FYRoM’s Slavic identity narrows self-determination direction to Slavic paternal ethnicity.

Explanation: FYRoM’s immediate forebears were the medieval Slavic tribes of Baiounitai, Belegezites, Berziti, Draguvites, Rynchines, Sagudates, Smolyani. These medieval Slavic tribes did not mix with ancient Macedonians.
They mixed with Byzantine Greco-Romans. Romoioi. Slavs called them Rimyani.

Nation Name. Usually, It is derived from (progenitor) paternal ancestor(s) tribal name(s).

Identity. Deriving identity from territory name is doable. But it has limitations. Deriving identity from neighbouring peoples forebears name is quirky and unheard of. FYRoM is first in the world to do it.

Naming. Aside from territory name rights. FYRoM’s Slavic identity narrows self-determination direction to Slavic paternal ethnicity.

Explanation: FYRoM’s immediate forebears were the medieval Slavic tribes of Baiounitai, Belegezites, Berziti, Draguvites, Rynchines, Sagudates, Smolyani. These medieval Slavic tribes did not mix with ancient Macedonians. They mixed [[by force][by free will]] with Byzantine Greco-Romans. Slavs called them Rimyani, meaning Roman.

Nation Name. Usually, It is derived from tribal progenitor paternal ancestor(s).

Naming yourself after territory name is doable because names can be adopted. But FYRoM extracts cultural endowment(s) from territory Place-Name. The first in the whole world to do it.

Endowments. Like Place-Names, People-Names, Identity, History, Heritage, Legacy. These are cultural endowments passed on, from one ethno-cultural generation to the next on. Modern peoples receive them from [[paternal][maternal]] ancestral forebears. Usually with no interruptions.

Cultural endowments are Worth defending. Worth protecting. Right!

FYRoM (unilaterally) chose to name itself after a whole geographic region, knowing full well and in advance that FYRoM cannot exist next to Greece with country name ‘Republic of Macedonia’. Why? Because it provokes discord. The name is derived from Macedon, (the ancient-Greek kingdom) geographically positioned in Northern Greece.

FYRoM constitutes just 38% of (extended) geographic region but chose (unilaterally) to name itself after the whole. It was a provocation. A brazen opportunistic calculated move.

Final Solution of the Macedonian Question is for FYRoM to choose different name for country-name. One that properly describes the geography there, and the peoples paternal ethnic background.

FYRoM (unilaterally) chose to name itself after a whole geographic region
(Nick the Greek, 1 January 2018 13:47)

That's no different than USA, South Africa, Central African Republic, Sudan, and Australia which also (unilaterally) chose to name themselves after a whole geographic region
----------

Final Solution of the Macedonian Question is for FYRoM to choose different name for country-name.
(Nick the Greek, 1 January 2018 13:47)

Yes, they have already chosen a different name for FYRoM: i.e. Macedonia. So the question has been solved.

@ (icj1, 6 January 2018 06:05)

Sudan is bad example. See Mali. See North/South Sudan. As for the rest, they are examples. But not good ones. Because not one of those examples do what FYRoM does. Extract cultural endowments from geographic region name. FYRoM also does something very unique in the world. FYRoM elevates geographic region name to level(s) of (i) country name, (ii) sovereign state name, (iii) nationality, (iv) language, (v) ethnicity. This is what makes FYRoM unique in the world.

alexander the great is greek and macedonia is in greece...not that fake macedonia,,,these fake macedonians live in dream....the world knows the true fact not fantasy.

If you name yourself after whole geographic region you are (in fact) making bold statement – many bold statements, in fact!

1- I (unilaterally) stake claim to whole region

2- I reserve the right to stake claim to whole region at some future date

3-The region is named after my forebears

4-The Place-Name describes my paternal ancestors tribal name

5- I claim historical rights and cultural-heritage rights of the whole region

6- I relegate downwards, the self-determination rights of other regional contenders

7- I claim all cultural endowments gifted from geographic region name

8- I reserve the right to write and rewrite historical narrative of whole geographic region

9- I reserve the right to raise monuments in the name of geographic regions powerful figureheads

By claiming the name of whole geographic region of Macedonia, FYRoM is (unilaterally) making bold statement(s) it cannot possibly live up to. Regardless the ramifications and consequences of their actions.

FYRoM (unilaterally) chose to name itself after the whole geographic region of Macedonia. Without consultation. And without consent of the regions native autochthonous inhabitants.

FYRoM sits on 38% of geographic region of Macedonia. But chose (unilaterally) to name itself after the whole.

The geographic region of Macedonian comprises of Greece 51% – FYRoM 38% – Bulgaria 11%. It is irrational for 38% to (unilaterally) claim the name of the whole.

If Macedonia gives up Alexander the Great, then Greece should also give him up along with all the other names that relate to Albanian/Illyrian history, not Greek history.
Greece should also change the name of the "King Pyrrhus" airport in Ioannina and give up the claim to 90% of the heroes of the Greek War of Independence, which were Arvanites/Albanians. Either remove their names from all the streets, squares and monuments or write their names in their Albanian mother tongue!

Lets say for the sake of the argument, if Alexander the Great somehow would return today and see what is happening, what would he do to these so called Makedonians,... well you are free to use your imagination

As for the Greeks, I think the same would apply..

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M99ze151HvA]

Supplementary to all the historical arguments, FYRoM is unique in the world for naming itself (unilaterally) after whole geographic region. This action is construed as being unfriendly unneighbourly act. Because...
Scandinavia is a geographic region. But there is no country called 'Republic of Scandinavia'. There is no language called Scandinavian-language. And there are no ethnic-Scandinavians claiming self-determination rights.
Iberia is a geographic region. But there is no country called 'Republic of Iberia'. There is no language called Iberian-language. And there are no ethnic-Iberians claiming self-determination rights.
Baltic Rim is geographic region. But there is no country called 'Republic of Baltic Rim'. There is no language called Baltic-language. And there are no ethnic-Baltics claiming self-determination rights.
Carpathia region. There is no country called 'Republic of Carpathia. No language called Carpathian-language. No ethnic-Carpathians claiming self-determination rights.

Macedonia is geographic region. FYRoM covets the name. That is why FYRoM (unilaterally) chose to call itself 'Republic of Macedonia'. Without consultation(s). And without the consent of the regions native autochthonous people-groups. It's a very crude uncivilized unneighbourly unfriendly action. Because FYRoM constitutes just 38% of geographic region of Macedonia. So it is quite irrational for 38% to want to name itself after the whole.

The geographic region of Macedonia in Vardar, was an occupation. Why are none of you commenting on that fact? Phillip fought many battles with the Illyrian/Peonians etc, and finally they lost/submitted to him. Point being, there were tribes in FYROM that were not Macedonian nor did they speak their tongue. So if we should be called Macedonians because there was an occupying kingdom, then technically we can be called Bulgarians, Serbians or Turks.

We have to draw a line in the sand and say, hey what are we? I think its only logical to either rename it Paeonia or something that all share ie the Vardar river, aka Vardarija. As a Slav from
FYROM, we need to stop jumping on a Macedonian band wagon because A the great 'conquered' many regions, and instead look to historical facts.

Given how FYR-Macedonia DOES sit on 38% of that territory that historically has been recognised as being of the Greek state of Macedonia, I'm wondering if calling it "Slavic-Macedonia" might placate the Greeks.

After all, I've absolutely no reason so far to believe that Greece wants to expel the Slavs from that territory and thus ethnically-cleanse it. Their sole objection is to FYR using the name Macedonia by itself, if I understand correctly.

There is nothing wrong about that and they are not the only one; it happens throughout the world. It's just that you are ignorant about that!
(icj1, 29 December 2017 21:17)

Not one of your examples elevate geographic region name to level(s) of (i) country-name, (ii) sovereign state-name, (iii) nationality, (iv) language, (v) ethnicity. This is what makes FYRoM unique in the world. And this is supplementary to the (pseudo) historical arguments.

FYRoM has named itself after whole geographic region. The only one in the whole world to do it
(Nick the Greek, 31 December 2017 01:40)

But, I showed you several examples (USA, South Africa, Central African Republic, Sudan, Australia) which are all countries that have named themselves after whole geographic region.

I get it that the facts do not match the myth in your head about Macedonia being the only country naming itself after whole geographic region, but that's not the fault of the facts - it's the fault of your brain. However facts always win, and USA, South Africa, Central African Republic, Sudan, and Australia exist as countries, regardless of your brain's refusal to accept that!
----------

No native autochthonous people-groups close by, to contest country name South Africa
(Nick the Greek, 31 December 2017 01:40)

Exactly! Because few other people/groups, if any, are idiots like Greece to waste their time with how other countries name themselves. That's exactly the point lol

FYRoM (unilaterally) chose to name itself after a whole geographic region, knowing full well and in advance that FYRoM cannot exist next to Greece with country name ‘Republic of Macedonia’. Why? Because it provokes discord. The name is derived from Macedon, (the ancient-Greek kingdom) geographically positioned in Northern Greece.

FYRoM constitutes just 38% of (extended) geographic region but chose (unilaterally) to name itself after the whole. It was a provocation. A brazen opportunistic calculated move.

Final Solution of the Macedonian Question is for FYRoM to choose different name for country-name. One that properly describes the geography there, and the peoples paternal ethnic background.

People-Names. Place-Names. Identity. History. Heritage. Legacy. These things are (very) important to Europeans. More important to the people-groups who created (originated) them in the first place.

Pretenders to cultural endowments be concerned.

That is why FYRoM (unilaterally) chose to call itself 'Republic of Macedonia'. Without consultation(s). And without the consent of the regions native autochthonous people-groups.
(Nick the Greek, 27 December 2017 12:54)

Dear, a country has only to consult its own citizens about how they want to name the country. What other countries think is irrelevant!

"Dear, a country has only to consult its own citizens about how they want to name the country". What other countries think is irrelevant!
(icj1, 28 December 2017 19:49)

I think the citizens of FYRoM are so much more informed today. I think rational people can see the problem that has been created.

FYRoM has named itself after whole geographic region. The only one, in the whole world to do it. It is wrong on many levels. But the obvious one is this - FYRoM constitutes just 38% of geographic region of Macedonia. It is irrational for 38% to claim the name of whole region.

FYRoM has named itself after whole geographic region. The only one, in the whole world to do it. It is wrong on many levels.
(Nick the Greek, 29 December 2017 19:40)

There is nothing wrong about that and they are not the only one; it happens throughout the world. It's just that you are ignorant about that!

The 50 states of the USA have name themselves the United States of the whole geographic region even though there are many other states in the Americas that are not part of the USA.

South Africa names itself after the region with the same name that includes Botswana, Lesotho, Namibia, South Africa and Swaziland.

The Central African Republic names itself after the Central African region which includes Burundi, the Central African Republic, Chad, Democratic Republic of Congo and Rwanda.

Sudan names itself after the region with the same name that includes parts of Senegal, Mali, Burkina Faso, Niger, Nigeria, Ghana, Chad, Sudan and South Sudan.

Australia names itself after the continent with the same name that includes Australia, Papua New Guinea, Timor-Leste and parts of Indonesia.

Historical arguments aside. FYRoM has named itself after whole geographic region. The only one in the whole world to do it, at country name level, sovereign state-name level, nationality level, language level, and ethnicity level. So it is wrong on many levels. But the obvious wrong is this - FYRoM constitutes just 38% of geographic region of Macedonia. It is irrational for 38% to claim the name of whole region.

The only other example I can think of that gets close to what FYRoM has done is South Africa. But there, there are no people-groups using 'South African' for ethnic identity. And there is no language called South African language. Most important, there are no objections. No native autochthonous people-groups close by, to contest country name South Africa, or nationality South African.

Propaganda arguments aside. I think the citizens of FYRoM are so much more informed today. I think rational people there can see the problem that has been created. I also think the peoples of FYRoM today, appreciate the importance Europeans place on their People-Names, Place-Names, Identity, History, Heritage, Legacy. These things are (very) important to Europeans. More important to the people-groups who created (originated) them in the first place.

Identity. Deriving identity from territory name is doable. But it has it's limitations. Deriving identity name from neighbouring peoples forebears is quirky. Unheard of. FYRoM is first in the world to do it.

Naming. Aside from territory name rights. FYRoM’s Slavic identity narrows self-determination direction to Slavic paternal ethnicity.

Explanation: FYRoM’s immediate forebears were the medieval Slavic tribes of Baiounitai, Belegezites, Berziti, Draguvites, Rynchines, Sagudates, Smolyani. These medieval Slavic tribes did not mix with ancient Macedonians.
They mixed with Byzantine Greco-Romans. Romoioi. Slavs called them Rimyani.

Nation Name. Usually, It is derived from (progenitor) paternal ancestor(s) tribal name(s).

Identity. Deriving identity from territory name is doable. But it has limitations. Deriving identity from neighbouring peoples forebears name is quirky and unheard of. FYRoM is first in the world to do it.

Naming. Aside from territory name rights. FYRoM’s Slavic identity narrows self-determination direction to Slavic paternal ethnicity.

Explanation: FYRoM’s immediate forebears were the medieval Slavic tribes of Baiounitai, Belegezites, Berziti, Draguvites, Rynchines, Sagudates, Smolyani. These medieval Slavic tribes did not mix with ancient Macedonians. They mixed [[by force][by free will]] with Byzantine Greco-Romans. Slavs called them Rimyani, meaning Roman.

Nation Name. Usually, It is derived from tribal progenitor paternal ancestor(s).

Naming yourself after territory name is doable because names can be adopted. But FYRoM extracts cultural endowment(s) from territory Place-Name. The first in the whole world to do it.

Endowments. Like Place-Names, People-Names, Identity, History, Heritage, Legacy. These are cultural endowments passed on, from one ethno-cultural generation to the next on. Modern peoples receive them from [[paternal][maternal]] ancestral forebears. Usually with no interruptions.

Cultural endowments are Worth defending. Worth protecting. Right!

FYRoM (unilaterally) chose to name itself after a whole geographic region
(Nick the Greek, 1 January 2018 13:47)

That's no different than USA, South Africa, Central African Republic, Sudan, and Australia which also (unilaterally) chose to name themselves after a whole geographic region
----------

Final Solution of the Macedonian Question is for FYRoM to choose different name for country-name.
(Nick the Greek, 1 January 2018 13:47)

Yes, they have already chosen a different name for FYRoM: i.e. Macedonia. So the question has been solved.

There is nothing wrong about that and they are not the only one; it happens throughout the world. It's just that you are ignorant about that!
(icj1, 29 December 2017 21:17)

Not one of your examples elevate geographic region name to level(s) of (i) country-name
(Nick the Greek, 29 December 2017 22:59)

But they do! South Africa has named itself after whole South African region. Just because you close your eyes and refuse to see that South Africa exists because you don't like the facts that don't match the myths in your head, that does not change the facts. Facts are very stubborn and South Africa exists as a country, whether u like it or not.

I understand that u feel embarrassed that you were exposed as being totally ignorant about something that you wrote. It has a simple solution though: next time do some research before writing and don't assume that the myths in your head match the reality just because your gut feeling tells you that those myths sound true!

@ (icj1, 6 January 2018 06:05)

Sudan is bad example. See Mali. See North/South Sudan. As for the rest, they are examples. But not good ones. Because not one of those examples do what FYRoM does. Extract cultural endowments from geographic region name. FYRoM also does something very unique in the world. FYRoM elevates geographic region name to level(s) of (i) country name, (ii) sovereign state name, (iii) nationality, (iv) language, (v) ethnicity. This is what makes FYRoM unique in the world.