"Serbia and U.S. must counter Russian message" - McCain

Edward Snowden recently make a comment about the FBI's case with Apple. His response - ‘That’s horse sh*t!’: FBI can already unlock iPhone without Apple’s help.

I have to make the same comment about McCain. What complete Horse Sh*t!! It is the US that is pressuring Serbia and has so since the 90's. Why else would Serbia have to have agreements with NATO in secret? It is Serbia's media that is already dominated by the US and Russia is attempting to inject some balance, like RT has to the world. It is the US pressuring Serbia to resist this balance. It is even obvious with B92's editorial balance. Why didn't any Serbian news sources report about the recent anti-NATO protests? Unfortunately these days, I have to read non-Serbian sites to read about news in Serbia.

McCain mentioned "If the United States had gotten rid of Bashar Assad and kept Iraq under control, we would not be experiencing the refugee crisis that we are today."

LOL! The US has been leading events in the Middle East for a very long time and all it has done is create chaos. Getting rid of Hussein and Gaddafi didn't help but getting rid of Assad somehow would? This guy is a psychopath!

Thank God for Putin! He negotiated peace in Ukraine and in Syria, we are now in a ceasefire and talking about a peace settlement. Serbia is under occupation and the people are well aware of this. As Russia becomes stronger we are all resisting this occupation more and more. Freedom to Serbia!

They should have left this demon in vietnam. He is pure evil, not to mention a total moron.

"I think Prime Minister Vucic has been very strong and standing up to Russian pressure. Russian pressure is very different from American pressure. We don't want anything from Serbia. We would just want to see it become a more viable democracy, and Russia wants to have a dominating influence, and that makes it very, very difficult. So, all I can say is I applaud Prime Minister Vucic's standing up to Vladimir Putin but I also understand the pressures are very significant, so he has to be very careful."
--
You can replace Russia with America and vice versa. Vucic and Nikolic are weak leaders and that's the way McCain likes them. They can be easily controlled. Serbians can read straight through these lies. We all know we are pressured from the US and NATO, not Russia.

The resistance against the occupation is getting stronger. We want more Russian influence and a huge Thank You to Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin!

Here is a good analysis of the current occupation. Check -> http://inserbia.info/today/2016/03/trifkovic-serbia-is-now-de-facto-at-natos-disposal

Rubbish from rubbish!!!!

Mckain go home you no hero your prisoner chicke man. putin superman

Who asks these softball questions? My one question would be on what basis did the US support the break up of Yugoslavia, knowing civil war was likely. Was there some terrible oppression? Were Slovenes and Croats and Bosnian Muslims being denied fundamental rights in any way? Yugoslavia was beautiful, and instead now we have weak unstable Micro states. There, I probably answered my own question.

McCain is promoting American interests and he will continue working for what is best to make America richer and stronger. He does not care and does not respect Serbia. Don't listen to his praise or kind words, it is all 100% politics. America will continue to do what is best for America. Serbians will need to do what is best for Serbia. Wake up people. Change the leadership of the country. Don't allow your leaders to be puppets.

Yes, Great Progress? Serbia and Serbian people doing just fine and dandy today? All Serbian people deported, displaced from Kosovo, Srpska Krajina and vast parts of Bosna - Herzegovina! Economic Isolation and Stagnation, Demonization and Villification of all Christian Eastern Orthodox Slavic people in the Balkans! The great old USA, what would we Serbians do with out you? The USA loves us Christian Eastern Orthodox Slavs so much, if any Serbian does not believe just go to any major city in the USA and put on a shirt with " I am Serbian " and walk around and then if your still alive then tell us about all that love and understanding the Arayan race has for us all! Yea, the USA posted that big evil lying picture to the whole world how we Serbian men rape all Muslum and Croatian woman and barbaque little children for dinner? Hitlers Final Solution right, Isolate, Demonize and villify and then finally Exterminate all Eastern Orthodox Christianity first in the Balkans and then all the way to Russia? Makes me so sick to see the Serbian Cival Leaders wasting precious time and energy, nothing positive is happening from all this entertaining the Devil! How can any Serbian ever forget the suffering of our innocent Brothers and Sisters during the last twenty some years? How can any one with a sane mind say that we are so well off and doing so fine today? Does any one ever think of asking the Serbian Siroce or Sirotica in the Balkans how they view the current situation? Boze Pravde!

Yugoslavia was a huge mistake by Serbia.

It should have just drawn its own borders after WW1 and forget about the others.

That said:

The others came into Yugo because they were Incapable and Unable to become functioning states able to stand on their own two feet.

A number of them came into Yugo with smaller territories than they left with. of these Croatia is the prime example. Came in with smaller territory and left with larger territory.

Right or wrong people of Croatia and Slovenia, didn't think that Yugoslavia was beautiful.
(Teodor Muzaka 1389, 10 March 2016 16:32)

You conveniently forgot to point out that Croatia, Slovenia and Serbia were sick and tired of dumping funds to Kosovo to a black hole. The Communist Party in Kosovo was primarily made up of Albanians who destroyed the Kosovo economy. Where is Kosovo no? Even a deep black pit of tar lead by gangsters, organ and narcotic trafficers and criminals.

"That take away makes no sense at all, unless you are able to identify which international law was violated and by whom :)
(icj1, 10 March 2016 21:06)"

The UN Charter - which, by the way, remains the highest and universally BINDING international law (art.2, para 4) - specifically addresses the inviolability of the territory of the recognized state by another state (be it UN member or not) and bans all forms of aggression, invasion, occupation, unwarranted interference, undue pressure and meddling.

It is abundantly clear that United States government did everything in its power to - in every way possible - violate and destroy Yugoslavia...as well as dozens of other UN member states ever since. The violation culminated in unauthorized, illegal 78-day-and-night bombing of the Sovereign State of Yugoslavia, which even the highest-ranking NATO officials now agree was illegal and immoral.

If you are unaware of the UN Charter, or its binding character, please consult the educational institution nearest you.

That fact that McCain, who is a Serb hating neocon warmonger who has never seen a war he didn't like, is praising Vucic, is proof that Vucic is a total, and I do mean a TOTAL traitor.
To call McCain a disgrace to humanity is a huge understatement. He is the spokesman for the military industrial complex in the US, is a war profiteer, has worked tirelessly to arm head chopping jihadists in the middle east, arm organ snatching terrorists in Kosovo, arm jihadis in Bosnia, arm modern day nazis in Ukraine and Croatia, is a great friend to the ISIS loving Saudi head chopping regime (who fund him and his neocon colleagues), arm ISIS jihadis in Libya....arm head chopping Free Syrian army head choppers in Syria..the list is too long, but you get the picture. This man is pure evil. He is also a very stupid man, and graduated in the bottom 1% of his class at the naval academy. Neocon bosses love stupid and corrupt politicians, they are easily influenced to do whatever the warmongers tell them. McCain is that man, he is their man. He is the same league as Albright, up to his neck in the blood of innocents all over the world, and belongs in hell, which is where he and his ilk are headed.
Big lips Vucic is clearly a fifth columnist working for NATO war criminals. We need a government that will not even allow these war criminals on to contaminate Serbian soil, and God willing that day is coming.
Cheers!!

Teodor Muzaka 1389 : It looks like Yugoslavia was good only for Serbs

How dare you when everybody knows that SFRY was a prospering state and all people are robbed now. They live worse materially and morally. Do you really think that Kosovo Autonomy was worse than the reservation of today? Don’t be a prisoner of your imagination and tell the truth this one time in your life. Also please don’t add those 1389 to your nickname. We all heard about your brave ancestor as if taking part in the civil war inside the Great Horde. Remember what I tell you – none of the people on Balkans has a historical memory of the events that happened earlier than 19 century. Everything we “know” was written for you by the masters of the continent the Oldenburgs.

So are the Russians but at least we strive to reach the real history of ours while most of the peoples around are satisfied with the tales they had been told. How long are you going to call yourself birds or Byelorussians and isn’t it time to have a proof of what we are told. Maybe your ancestor fought in Kosovo. But there were no Muslims then so he must had been siding either the Royal or the Apostolic (Murad I) Christianity. After the Horde split in early 17 century, after the Balkans were set free in 19 century and after the USSR was betrayed in late 20 century almost same things happened to the newly appeared states. They all rushed to write their own history contradicting one another.

The SFRY was a dictatorship run by a Slovenian, not a Serb. And Tito hated Serbs. It was Tito's dictatorship that carved up Serbia, creating the autonomous provinces of Kosovo and Vojvodina. Recall also the Tito's SFRY was neutral.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_Federal_Republic_of_Yugoslavia

McCain is a wretch and a globalist, who cares nothing for the US or its interests or any peoples concerned about their national sovereignty. Muslim and Catholic global conspiracies are the engines of his foreign policy. Unless a federation contributes to such conspiracies as the SFRY most certainly did, they will find no friend in McCain.

Yes, it worked surprisingly well for sometime, considering it was a hybrid between Ottoman and Austro-Hungarian legacy. Until a little man started using the elite of the Serbian intelligentsia to write memorandums .....

Active verb is needed in the second sentence. "Even" does probably not belong there.
(Reader, 11 March 2016 15:25)

Look at this, the illiterate Albanian is teaching English and Grammar! You do realize that these postings are translated and edited in many cases by B-92 staffers who in many cases English is their second language.

There used to be a show called Seinfeld, it was branded a show about nothing. Very similar to your comments, a show about nothing.

Who is the "little man"?
Who wrote these Serbian Memorandums and when?
Who is this person who did not react to Croatia, Slovenia and B&H.

Yugoslavia was a civil war. If you are thinking Slobodan Milosevic, had command and control, he did not! The Hague Tribunal transcripts went in great depth on Serbia's involvement. Go read them and than make your argument if you can.

"Hybrid of Austro Hungarian and Ottoman Legacy" That hybrid as you call it already existed within the borders of Austro Hungary. If you read you history instead of talking about nothing, you would realize that the first Slavs who wanted to unite were Croats, Strossmeyer and Radic to name two.

Try actually "reading" a real book for change instead of trolling around the internet making ignorant comments.

It looks like Yugoslavia was good only for Serbs, who still continue to bully everyone who dared to disagree with their point of view.
(Teodor Muzaka 1389, 10 March 2016 16:32)

When you decide to actually check history instead of basing your opinions from the voices in your head, you'll find Yugoslavia was good for everyone - except of course Croatian emigre nationalists who continued to dream of an independent Croatian state, and Albanian separatists who continued to dream of an enlarged Albanian state. Yugoslavia worked for the overwhelming majority of its people - all of whom now are stuck in half-assed states and statelets too weak and insignificant to be of any importance for European affairs.

(Teodor Muzaka 1389, 10 March 2016 16:32)
Yugoslavia was a federation. Legally, that meant that countries could break away from it only when all other countries would agree to it. Unlike a confederation where countries unilaterally can leave. Whatever you think of Yugoslavia, that was the legal base. The breakup of Yugoslavia therefore was against the constitution of Yugoslavia and against international law. The referendum in Bosnia was therefore illegal cause other remaining countries in the federation were not asked. When then Bosnian Serbs wanted to break away from BiH that was then not allowed. That is hypocrisy. Especially when then Crimea broke away from Ukraine. You see, Pandora's box was opened and from Kosovo, to Crimea to Catalunya the case of Yugoslavia was used as a justification.
What can be taken away from this is that international law does not really matter in geopolitics cause that was what the breakup of Yugoslavia was about. Foreign countries played an important role in that. With that a precedent was created.

"I think Prime Minister Vucic has been very strong and standing up to Russian pressure. Russian pressure is very different from American pressure. We don't want anything from Serbia. We would just want to see it become a more viable democracy, and Russia wants to have a dominating influence, and that makes it very, very difficult. So, all I can say is I applaud Prime Minister Vucic's standing up to Vladimir Putin but I also understand the pressures are very significant, so he has to be very careful."
--------------------------------------
Don't want anything except 15% of your territory so that we have a giant base there.
That's not much to ask for.

Whom the U.S. government is courting, cornering, countering or counterfeiting, to what end and for what reason is none of Serbian concern and rests well outside our national sphere of interest. To an average Serb, the foreign policy of Washington DC is about as metaphysical and surreal as how many angels can sit on a pinhead at any given time.

Serbia will NEVER be a candidate for NATO, period. If nominated to join the "alliance", Serbian people will peremptorily decline; even if unanimously elected to NATO, it will decline to join. Serbs shall not seek, and shall not accept, the nomination of the American neoconservative phalanx to join the NATO pact. Which part of "NO!" you are not sure about?

We are neutral. We have every intention of STAYING neutral. We will have none of your "protection" (sic) racket and your "collateral" friendship reinforced with depleted uranium and 78 days and nights of your bombing. Leave is out of your strategic plans, your global designs, your alliances, your partnerships, your war propaganda, your schemes and your psy-ops, now and forevermore. Don't touch us, and we promise not to touch you. Pretty please with some Russian sugar on top...?

(icj1, 10 March 2016 21:06)
The international law of the sovereignty of a state to mention one. The US -with this neocon warmonger McCain part of that- as well as Germany have been very instrumental in the breakup of Yugoslavia. Their alphabet agencies had been active for decades to destabilize Yugoslavia. They thereby violated international law on the sovereignty of a state.

Yugoslavia was a crappy country. It only looked good because the rest of Eastern Europe was an even bigger penal colony under the Russian yoke. But don't get fooled, Yugoslavia also had political prisoners, and a terrifying security apparatus that would make anyone disappear at any given moment.
The economy seemed for a period to be doing good, but it was all a ponzi scheme. Yugo took so many loans during Tito's time, that when he died it collapsed because it couldn't pay. It was not a sustainable development, and everyone bolted out of the door.
As for Kosovo? Albanians were the third largest ethnic group, and they were only able to achieve some sort of cultural autonomy from 1974 to 1981 - that's only 7 years out of 87 that they spent as captives of Yugoslavia. From the WWII until the end of Kosovo war, there have been 6 periods of major upheaval and conflict between Albanians and Serbs: in 1945, 1968, 1974, 1981, 1989 and 1999. And each time Kosovo was effectively under military rule and martial law.
If you call that a peaceful or even good existence for the Kosovar people, than you clearly don't know what you're talking about.

My one question would be on what basis did the US support the break up of Yugoslavia, knowing civil war was likely. Was there some terrible oppression? Were Slovenes and Croats and Bosnian Muslims being denied fundamental rights in any way? Yugoslavia was beautiful, and ... (Wally, 10 March 2016 15:15)...

Right or wrong people of Croatia and Slovenia, didn't think that Yugoslavia was beautiful.
They had the right to become independent.
Right or wrong people of BH, Montenegro and FYROM didn't think Yugoslavia was beautiful.
They had the right to become independent.

And we all know how "beautiful" was Yugoslavia to Albanians in Kosovo, striping the autonomy of 1974 and mistreating them in 1981-89.
After this Albanians had the right to fight back and to become independent.
It looks like Yugoslavia was good only for Serbs, who still continue to bully everyone who dared to disagree with their point of view.

So Serbia is now with NATO That makes the final piece of Yugoslavia in NATO pocket. what did the Serbs get for Kosovo ?? and what did the NATO give the Serbs under the NATO Treaty ? can anyone explain ?

Ya Serbo-slavia was good for Serbs. Who made over 70% of the pathetic lazy communist bureaucracy of EX Yugo when they were only 30% ex Yugo population. Now the true Serbia shines in every statistic category as the bottom of the heap of EX Yugo Republics. Every one wanted https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGj1EGlzE4Q 36:10 out of Serb run Serbo-slavia but conniving thieving deranged criminal Serbia.

McCain says, "We don't want anything from Serbia."

I don't believe him. He is pandering to Serbia and it's people. Why?

Also, in Kosovo, no visa liberalization, Community of Serb Municipalities (ZSO) will be formed, no UNESCO membership, demanding establishment of court for KLA crimes.

The west and EU continues to intentionally disregard and isolate Kosovo in terms of trade, investment and travel while pandering to Serbia. Why?

Ya Serbo-slavia was good for Serbs. Who made over 70% of the pathetic lazy communist bureaucracy of EX Yugo when they were only 30% ex Yugo population. Now the true Serbia shines in every statistic category as the bottom of the heap of EX Yugo Republics. Every one wanted [link] 36:10 out of Serb run Serbo-slavia but conniving thieving deranged criminal Serbia.
(Lenard, 11 March 2016 10:13)

You seem to have many problems with numbers Ustase, Serbians made up over 40% of the former Yugoslavia if not more.

As you should be aware, no Croat would call himself "Yugoslavian".

For a small insignificant country, why did Croatians dominate the Federal government before the outbreak of the civil war? Markovic and Mesic come to mind.

President Mesic-
Kadijevic-General

Croatians are like lice who cannot live in a democratic country. Under Austro Hungary they continually created civil wars between Austria and Hungary as Ban Jelacic was used as a disrupting force in the Austro-Hungarian Monarchy. Stephan Radic was not only a militant in the former Yugoslavia, but was also jailed many times by the Austrian and Hungarian authorities. He paid the ultimate price in the Yugoslav Parliament, rightly or wrongly he was shot dead, but he deserved his fate as an agitator to the state.

"...you'll find Yugoslavia was good for everyone"...for how long? about 20 years? this myth of Yugoslavia seems to still remain among a lot of B92 posters, it begs the question, if it was so good, why on Earth did it disintegrate quite as abruptly as it did? plus, you forgot to mention the prime movers in Yugoslavia's destruction, the heavenly rabble and their never ending paranoia

As predicted.... and in direct contradiction to most sentiments expressed in these pages.

Serbia just needs to continue to "be neither/ be both" at the same time.

Don't go this way.... or that way.

Go neither way/ Go both ways.

Don't allow them to push you into choosing.... and don't be neutral.

Prosperity comes from this.

rote, 10 March 2016 18:32

"everybody knows that SFRY was a prospering state"

Well, yes it was, but by 1989 it went bankrupt, one year earlier than the other Eastern-European communist states. So it was not such a prospering state after all. Only after this it started braking up.

A number of them came into Yugo with smaller territories than they left with. of these Croatia is the prime example. Came in with smaller territory and left with larger territory.
(factman, 11 March 2016 16:01)

Wrong. Croatia lost parts of Srijem and the bay of Kotor while gaining Istra - hardly a major change. Bosnia was virtually the same.

The one who grew most was easily Serbia by gaining Vojvodina and parts of Montenegro.

Lol this is just perfect. Serbia needs a wake up call.

The breakup of Yugoslavia therefore was against the constitution of Yugoslavia and against international law.
(Joe A, 10 March 2016 17:31)

Can you please identify which international law was violated and by whom?
----------

What can be taken away from this is that international law does not really matter in geopolitics cause that was what the breakup of Yugoslavia was about.
(Joe A, 10 March 2016 17:31)

That take away makes no sense at all, unless you are able to identify which international law was violated and by whom :)

Yugoslavia was good for everyone
(Balkan Anthropologist, 10 March 2016 22:25)

Yup, everyone except for Bosnia-Herzegovina, Croatia, Kosovo, Macedonia, Montenegro and Slovenia which run for the exit door as soon as they could.

Bull shit

Go back to Vietnam where you belong.

Jugoslavija,

'No Croata would call himself a Yugoslavian'

Though many did at the time. And as you mentioned in a previous post, Croats were at the forefront of the pan-South slavic Illyrian movement.

'Croatians cannot live in a democratic country'

Sure they can, the problem is when the country ceases to be democratic.

'why did Croats dominate the Federal government'

Two is hardly domination, and the fact that their terms overlapped is pure coincidence. Kadijevic was half Serb and it was clear where his loyalty lay.

'Under Austro Hungary they continually created wars between Austria and Hungary'

There was one civil war in 1848 - the cause of which lay with Hungary. Dont exxagereate.

'Stephan Radic was a militant/jailed many times'

Exactly how was he a militant? He was a moderate who was in coallition with Serb parties and never advocated violence. I suppose everyone in oppoistion to a reigime or government is automatically a militant? Regarding militants and extremists, you may have him confused with Punisa Racic, the guy who shot him. Though given the similarity in surnames, I can understand the mistake.

'he deserved his fate as an agitator to the state'

His murder widened the growing rift between Serbs and Croats, while also giving the Ustashe the justification to launch their own murderous campaign. He may have been an agitator, but should we murder everyone who voices opposition to a government? It that your definition of democracy?

Teodor Muzaka 1389, 10 March 2016 16:32

Yugoslavia was a good way to make those nations become more influential as common voice in europe and even world. Nowdays everyone normal in that area is regretting SFRJ was not reorganized from communist to modern federation of independent states that could share market culture and be part of EU and Nato. Mistake was to have Kosovo as part of that Slavic state as majority people there are non-slavic. Now thats something you cant explain to Belgrade guys. if they said they dont want it then Kosovo would beg to remain part of such multicultual democratic and very advanced state. now we all remain in that balkan mud.

"Russian pressure is very different from American pressure." Indeed it is! Priceless elucidation by a statesman/politician of such a grand substance and caliber. To all poor souls who may stick to a logic that "pressure" means "pressure" regardless of the adjective before it, and those who had experienced the said two pressures on their own skin and hence posses an empiric knowledge: you are simpletons who are unable to understand reality, but worry not - your stupidity will be forgiven by the famous, noble grace and mercy of the neocons...
This character has to remind you of those old vampire movies when a victim has to invite the vampire into the house before he can cross the threshold. Usually, however, movie victims are not aware of the vampire's identity - unlike this case. But nothing to fear, the "strong leader" Vucko will be spared, at least for now.
Anyways, what on Earth is JMcC doing in Serbia - there seems to be a new Van Helsing on the horizon (the one with a funny yellow hair), so the good old Johnny and his neocon cabal may do well to focus even more on him.

(factman, 14 March 2016 01:40)

1. Regardless of under what conditions the land was obtained, Serbia did still gain Vojvodina and parts of Montenegro.

2. Both Croatia-Slavonia and Dalmatia were in the State of Slovenes, Croats and Serbs before joining Yugoslavia, so no. Please explain how it was at the expense of Serbia. The borders of Croatia and Serbia have changed numerous times over the years - indeed Dalmatia was part of Croatia for many years. Why do you consider 1918 the definite year for defining borders?

Yugoslavia worked for the overwhelming majority of its people - all of whom now are stuck in half-assed states and statelets too weak and insignificant to be of any importance for European affairs.
(Balkan Anthropologist, 10 March 2016 22:25)

Yes, it worked surprisingly well for sometime, considering it was a hybrid between Ottoman and Austro-Hungarian legacy. Until a little man started using the elite of the Serbian intelligentsia to write memorandums of complaints and rode the myth of Kosovo once more to gain power. With the usual arrogance of Serbs, he did not calculate the consequences very well. Didn't think Croatia, Slovenia and the others would react.
He did not calculate the interests of Germany either, which was really afraid that Zastava cars would replace Mercedes Benz worldwide. That must have come as a big surprise.

"Where is Kosovo no?....Even a deep black pit of tar lead by gangsters, organ and narcotic trafficers and criminals."
(jugoslavija, 10 March 2016 20:53)

no -> now
trafficers -> traffickers

Active verb is needed in the second sentence. "Even" does probably not belong there.

aaa,

Not quite.

1. Serbia did not gain territory in Yugoslavia. Serbia was awarded territory by the great powers before Yugoslavia was even created for its heroic efforts against the Austro-Hugarian empire. The territory was paid for in the blood of 25% of the Serbian people.

2. As for Croatia you are wrong here too. See the map to confirm that Croatia left with far more land than it came in with. That land was at the expense of Serbia who liberated it from Austro-Hungary: http://10j-history.wikispaces.com/file/view/austro-hungary.gif/100045181/austro-hungary.gif

Marshall Tito was the worst thing that ever happened to Serbia. The worst. Someone should dig him and ship him to Croatia where he belongs.

McCain , the most dangerous man in Americam and one of the most hated Rino Senator by American people . He was spewing pure hate against the Srbian people for decades and now he gives advice to the Serbian government! Shame on you Vucic and Nikolic , are you really such narcissistic idiots to believe the old Rino likes you and wishes Serbia prosperity ? Ugh!

aaa,

---- Serbia (not Yugoslavia) gained her territory by being on the side of the Allies and contributing materially to the Allied war effort against the Austro-Hungarian empire. The Yugoslavia you are speaking of did not exist at that time. The land was officially awarded a few years later (to honor Serbian war efforts)

---- Serbia gained Montengrin land? No so. It was Montenegro which gained territory. See two maps which support my stance:

map 1: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f8/Montenegro_territory_expanded_%281830-1944%29.png
map 2: https://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/europe/macedonb.jpg

--- I never said that Croatia increased its land mass at the expense of Serbia. I said that Croatia came in with less land than it left with. And that is a fact because:

1. The additional land (Istra) came to it because it was a part of Yugoslavia (it was unable to do this of it own power).

2. One may also say that it gained a grip on Dalmatia too. Dalmatia really has nothing to do with Croatia for most of Croatia's history. Croatian control didn't come until Croatia joined Yugoslavia. Croatia never fought Great Powers to gain Dalmatia and extend its sphere of influence. That came as fringe benefit of being part of Yugoslavia. Dalmatia was for the great majority of its history entirely independent or entirely foreign controlled.

Therefore the statement stands true: Croatia left Yugoslavia with more land than it came in with.

(Jugoslavija, 14 March 2016 15:33)

You make many good points, but the constitution was only accepted by the Serb and Muslim parties - the others either opposed or boycotted all together. And you still have failed to explain how exactly Radic was a militant - opposing the government and being jailed do not count.

Tito may have been (half) Croat, yet he did not adopt a Croat nationalist policy (please comment if you think otherwise). Yet government and running a country take more than one person. Compare with the first Yugoslavia where every prime minister except one was a Serb.

Go back to Vietnam where you belong.
(Peggy, 13 March 2016 01:03)


Go back to Serbistan, what is left of it. It can only get smaller, like Nokia, unless Serbistan joins NATO.

(factman, 14 March 2016 15:40)

1. Your original statement was regarding counties entering Yugoslavia with less land than when they left. Check your map again and you'll see that Serbia gained land from Montenegro. However, as I mentioned previously the borders did change constantly and whether it counts as 'reclamation' can be argued.

2. Serbia was barely able to reoccupy its own land without Allied help in WWI, let alone take Vojvodina. By that stage AH was already on the verge of disintegrating.

3. Dalmatia has had plenty to do with Croatia (certainly more than Serbia), despite being sold to the Venetians and then being a separate entity under Austria-Hungary. One could argue the original Croat state was divided amongst two entities - to the extent that the coat of arms of Croatia-Slavonia included that of Dalmatia. I'll admit Croatia-Slavonia gained more land when exiting Yugoslavia, but Croatia not so.

Im not doubting the fighting ability of the Serbs, but they were heavily supported by the British and French divisions. So although they fought bravely, you cant give them the entire credit.
(aaa, 15 March 2016 10:19)

Just outside of Thessaloniki is the Zetalnik grave site of all the allied armies during WWI, US, English, French, and Serbia. The Serbian grave site does not contain only Serbian fighters, but across the former Yugoslavia including Croatian fighters who volunteered to fight for Serbia.

Although the Serbian army repeatedly thwarted the Austro-Hungarian army, it was weakened because of the large amount of Slavs that General Poitorek also led who in many cases deserted.

As far as French and British support, very minimal at the outbreak of war. When Austro-Hungary attacked Serbia three times and were thrown back across the Sava and Drina Rivers, Serbia begged the French for infantry support, very few came. (Serbia did not need weapons, cannons or ammunition, the retreating Austro-Hungary army left plenty behind) The conflict was in stale mate for over one year where the Serbian army was more decimated by spread of Typhus than war until the German Offensive led by General Mackenson.
At the close of the war, more British and French support, but they certainly did not do the fighting for the Serbs, did not need to.

(aaa, 15 March 2016 18:14)

If you are interested on a good summary of the conflict between Austro-Hungary and Serbia, check this article out.

Military History Magazine
June 1991, page 26
Giant Repeatedly Thwarted
First once, then twice, little Serbia turned back the invading giant in World War I � but could her peasant armies withstand a third pummeling by mighty Austria that same year?
Emmett B. Ford, Jr.

http://www.aferguson.net/magindexes/default.asp?mag=milhist&author=Emmett%20B.%20Ford,%20Jr.

The breakup of Yugoslavia therefore was against the constitution of Yugoslavia and against international law.
(Joe A, 10 March 2016 17:31)

Can you please identify which international law was violated and by whom?
(icj1, 10 March 2016 21:06)

The international law of the sovereignty of a state to mention one. The US -with this neocon warmonger McCain part of that- as well as Germany have been very instrumental in the breakup of Yugoslavia.
(Joe A, 11 March 2016 06:32)

Ok, great, you're making some progress :) So, provide the following in order to prove your statement:

1. The precise text of the international law that you are referring to and the source;

2. A specific example of an action by the US or Germany that violated (1); and

3. When did (2) occur and how was it "instrumental" to the breakup of SFRY?

"staffers who in many cases English.."
->
staffers FOR WHOM, in many cases, English...

"Yugoslavia was a civil war."

Yugoslavia was a country, not a civil war.

"read them and than make your argument"
->
read them and THEN make your argument

"a real book for change"
->
a real book for A change


"You do realize that these postings are translated and edited in many cases by B-92 staffers"

Yes yugo, B92 pays people to translate your posts, that is how important you are, LOL. But instead, those little devils remove a k from traffickers to make it look like you wrote trafficers. Or change an e to an o in the word veracity.

2. Serbia was barely able to reoccupy its own land without Allied help in WWI, let alone take Vojvodina. By that stage AH was already on the verge of disintegrating.
(aaa, 14 March 2016 18:32)

Not quite, after being trained and equipped in Corfu and Salonika, the Serbian army ripped through the Axis defenses taking hundreds and thousands of German, Austro-Hungarian and Bulgarian prisoners on its way to relieving Belgrade.

German Emperor Wilhelm, imperialism and Serbia’s opponents personified in his time, said of the Serbian people: “It is a shame that this small nation is not my ally.”

The new Viennese Greie Presse, a newspaper that waged the most intensive campaign against Serbia, wrote about the Serbian people in 1918: “It will remain a puzzle how the remnants of the Serbian army which managed to escape Mackensen’s army, could later be made fit for battle. It is proof that the Serbian soldier is among the toughest warriors the global conflagration has seen.”

The Cologne newspaper from 1918 states in the article The Psychology of Retreat: “Few soldiers fought like the Serbian soldier did. He died where he had been ordered to stand his ground.”

Field marshal Mackensen: “I have an unusual admiration and love for people from Šumadija. You are a heroic nation, full of honour and pride; a nation with a great and brilliant future.”

Source: http://defence.pk/threads/stories-about-serbs-and-serbia-in-ww1.313769/#ixzz42uAFkS67

1. Your original statement was regarding counties entering Yugoslavia with less land than when they left. Check your map again and you'll see that Serbia gained land from Montenegro. However, as I mentioned previously the borders did change constantly and whether it counts as 'reclamation' can be argued

--- Of course one can't know of every little territorial change. But OK, let's say that Serbia gained a few square kilometers


2. Serbia was barely able to reoccupy its own land without Allied help in WWI, let alone take Vojvodina. By that stage AH was already on the verge of disintegrating

--- Ummmm. Of course they needed help. They were fighting against the most powerful empire of the time (10x its size). Serbia more than pulled its weight and was rewarded by the Allied powers because it contributed materially to the war effort. It's the reason Pres. Wilson flew the Serb flag over the White House: http://serbia.usembassy.gov/when-the-serbian-flag-flew-over-the-white-house.html


3. Dalmatia had plenty to do with Croatia (certainly more than Serbia), despite being sold to the Venetians and then being a separate entity under Austria-Hungary. One could argue the original Croat state was divided among two entities - to the extent that the coat of arms of Croatia-Slavonia included that of Dalmatia. I'll admit Croatia-Slavonia gained more land when exiting Yugoslavia, but Croatia not so.

--- OK. There is plenty to agree on. Lets agree to disagree on the rest :)

(Jugoslavija, 14 March 2016 19:56)

Im not doubting the fighting ability of the Serbs, but they were heavily supported by the British and French divisions. So although they fought bravely, you cant give them the entire credit.

OK. There is plenty to agree on. Lets agree to disagree on the rest :)
(factman, 15 March 2016 02:20)

agreed :)

(Jugoslavija, 15 March 2016 16:43)

Well said. The British, French and remaining allied divisions focused their attention towards Albania, Bulgaria and Romania in the late-war offensives on the Macedonian Front. The liberation of Serbia proper was primarily down to the Serbs (with limited French help), I agree. However, in many of the breakthroughs into Vardar Macedonia which eased the subsequent push into Serbia, the British and French divisions had a large part (Battle of Monastir, Vardar Offensive, Monastir Offensive, Battle of Dobro Pole, etc.)

No disrespect to Mr. McCain, we can all understand why he's saying what he's saying, but this is really simple. America bombed Serbia when it should have been on Serbia's side, while Russia was on Serbia's side. America still considered to give back that important part of Serbia which was stolen. Everything worthwhile the US has to offer was inspired from Serbia, while everything else is wrapped in double-standards and agenda-driven exclusion. If all of that doesn't already scream "you can't trust us," there's also the option of reading the news - the Russian message is there for a good reason, it seems.

"aaa".


Hungary had many problems in ruling Croatia even though Croats had a Sabor. It was not a tripartite kingdom, but a dual monarchy of which Croatia as ruled by Hungary, something that did not sit well with Croats, especially Radic. Radic a militant jailed both in Hungary and Yugoslavia for acts against the state. It's no secret we wanted separate Croatian/Slav state outside of Austro-Hungary and he pursued the same policy in Yugoslavia. Even before the Serb/Croat/Slovene state had a chance to being, he rejected the Constitution which was accepted by majority. He was again jailed in Yugoslavia only to be released after an agreement with Serb Radical Party leader Nikola Pasic which did not last. Nikola Pasic made two mistakes, the first was to accept Croatia into the Yugoslav Federation, the only reason Serbia accepted was that Dalmatia would have been lost, a small price to pay. The second mistake was to bring back the militant Radic back to Yugoslav politics. The rift and the creation began with Stephan Radic, it became larger after he was shot in parliament and even larger when King Alexander was assassinated in Marseilles in 1934. The Macek/Cvetkovic agreements was long time coming, but too late when the Nazi's invaded Yugoslavia and Ante Pavelic seized power unleashing the first dismantling of Yugoslavia.

Two is hardly domination, and the fact that their terms overlapped is pure coincidence. Kadijevic was half Serb and it was clear where his loyalty lay.

What was Tito, a Serb!!??

(aaa, 14 March 2016 11:56)

Kadijevic loyalty lied with the state of Yugoslavia, clearly he saw the writing on the wall after the blood bath in Vukovar and relieved himself. Under his leadership, the JNA goal was the protection of the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia. He would have clearly been condemned at the Hague Tribunal like Pavel Strugal to fit the "European western narrative".

Two is hardly domination, and the fact that their terms overlapped is pure coincidence. Kadijevic was half Serb and it was clear where his loyalty lay.

What was Tito, a Serb!!??

(aaa, 14 March 2016 11:56)

My one question would be on what basis did the US support the break up of Yugoslavia, knowing civil war was likely. Was there some terrible oppression? Were Slovenes and Croats and Bosnian Muslims being denied fundamental rights in any way? Yugoslavia was beautiful, and ... (Wally, 10 March 2016 15:15)...

Right or wrong people of Croatia and Slovenia, didn't think that Yugoslavia was beautiful.
They had the right to become independent.
Right or wrong people of BH, Montenegro and FYROM didn't think Yugoslavia was beautiful.
They had the right to become independent.

And we all know how "beautiful" was Yugoslavia to Albanians in Kosovo, striping the autonomy of 1974 and mistreating them in 1981-89.
After this Albanians had the right to fight back and to become independent.
It looks like Yugoslavia was good only for Serbs, who still continue to bully everyone who dared to disagree with their point of view.

Yugoslavia was a crappy country. It only looked good because the rest of Eastern Europe was an even bigger penal colony under the Russian yoke. But don't get fooled, Yugoslavia also had political prisoners, and a terrifying security apparatus that would make anyone disappear at any given moment.
The economy seemed for a period to be doing good, but it was all a ponzi scheme. Yugo took so many loans during Tito's time, that when he died it collapsed because it couldn't pay. It was not a sustainable development, and everyone bolted out of the door.
As for Kosovo? Albanians were the third largest ethnic group, and they were only able to achieve some sort of cultural autonomy from 1974 to 1981 - that's only 7 years out of 87 that they spent as captives of Yugoslavia. From the WWII until the end of Kosovo war, there have been 6 periods of major upheaval and conflict between Albanians and Serbs: in 1945, 1968, 1974, 1981, 1989 and 1999. And each time Kosovo was effectively under military rule and martial law.
If you call that a peaceful or even good existence for the Kosovar people, than you clearly don't know what you're talking about.

Ya Serbo-slavia was good for Serbs. Who made over 70% of the pathetic lazy communist bureaucracy of EX Yugo when they were only 30% ex Yugo population. Now the true Serbia shines in every statistic category as the bottom of the heap of EX Yugo Republics. Every one wanted https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGj1EGlzE4Q 36:10 out of Serb run Serbo-slavia but conniving thieving deranged criminal Serbia.

"...you'll find Yugoslavia was good for everyone"...for how long? about 20 years? this myth of Yugoslavia seems to still remain among a lot of B92 posters, it begs the question, if it was so good, why on Earth did it disintegrate quite as abruptly as it did? plus, you forgot to mention the prime movers in Yugoslavia's destruction, the heavenly rabble and their never ending paranoia

Edward Snowden recently make a comment about the FBI's case with Apple. His response - ‘That’s horse sh*t!’: FBI can already unlock iPhone without Apple’s help.

I have to make the same comment about McCain. What complete Horse Sh*t!! It is the US that is pressuring Serbia and has so since the 90's. Why else would Serbia have to have agreements with NATO in secret? It is Serbia's media that is already dominated by the US and Russia is attempting to inject some balance, like RT has to the world. It is the US pressuring Serbia to resist this balance. It is even obvious with B92's editorial balance. Why didn't any Serbian news sources report about the recent anti-NATO protests? Unfortunately these days, I have to read non-Serbian sites to read about news in Serbia.

McCain mentioned "If the United States had gotten rid of Bashar Assad and kept Iraq under control, we would not be experiencing the refugee crisis that we are today."

LOL! The US has been leading events in the Middle East for a very long time and all it has done is create chaos. Getting rid of Hussein and Gaddafi didn't help but getting rid of Assad somehow would? This guy is a psychopath!

Thank God for Putin! He negotiated peace in Ukraine and in Syria, we are now in a ceasefire and talking about a peace settlement. Serbia is under occupation and the people are well aware of this. As Russia becomes stronger we are all resisting this occupation more and more. Freedom to Serbia!

Teodor Muzaka 1389, 10 March 2016 16:32

Yugoslavia was a good way to make those nations become more influential as common voice in europe and even world. Nowdays everyone normal in that area is regretting SFRJ was not reorganized from communist to modern federation of independent states that could share market culture and be part of EU and Nato. Mistake was to have Kosovo as part of that Slavic state as majority people there are non-slavic. Now thats something you cant explain to Belgrade guys. if they said they dont want it then Kosovo would beg to remain part of such multicultual democratic and very advanced state. now we all remain in that balkan mud.

Yugoslavia was good for everyone
(Balkan Anthropologist, 10 March 2016 22:25)

Yup, everyone except for Bosnia-Herzegovina, Croatia, Kosovo, Macedonia, Montenegro and Slovenia which run for the exit door as soon as they could.

Lol this is just perfect. Serbia needs a wake up call.

Teodor Muzaka 1389 : It looks like Yugoslavia was good only for Serbs

How dare you when everybody knows that SFRY was a prospering state and all people are robbed now. They live worse materially and morally. Do you really think that Kosovo Autonomy was worse than the reservation of today? Don’t be a prisoner of your imagination and tell the truth this one time in your life. Also please don’t add those 1389 to your nickname. We all heard about your brave ancestor as if taking part in the civil war inside the Great Horde. Remember what I tell you – none of the people on Balkans has a historical memory of the events that happened earlier than 19 century. Everything we “know” was written for you by the masters of the continent the Oldenburgs.

So are the Russians but at least we strive to reach the real history of ours while most of the peoples around are satisfied with the tales they had been told. How long are you going to call yourself birds or Byelorussians and isn’t it time to have a proof of what we are told. Maybe your ancestor fought in Kosovo. But there were no Muslims then so he must had been siding either the Royal or the Apostolic (Murad I) Christianity. After the Horde split in early 17 century, after the Balkans were set free in 19 century and after the USSR was betrayed in late 20 century almost same things happened to the newly appeared states. They all rushed to write their own history contradicting one another.

The breakup of Yugoslavia therefore was against the constitution of Yugoslavia and against international law.
(Joe A, 10 March 2016 17:31)

Can you please identify which international law was violated and by whom?
----------

What can be taken away from this is that international law does not really matter in geopolitics cause that was what the breakup of Yugoslavia was about.
(Joe A, 10 March 2016 17:31)

That take away makes no sense at all, unless you are able to identify which international law was violated and by whom :)

A number of them came into Yugo with smaller territories than they left with. of these Croatia is the prime example. Came in with smaller territory and left with larger territory.
(factman, 11 March 2016 16:01)

Wrong. Croatia lost parts of Srijem and the bay of Kotor while gaining Istra - hardly a major change. Bosnia was virtually the same.

The one who grew most was easily Serbia by gaining Vojvodina and parts of Montenegro.

Who asks these softball questions? My one question would be on what basis did the US support the break up of Yugoslavia, knowing civil war was likely. Was there some terrible oppression? Were Slovenes and Croats and Bosnian Muslims being denied fundamental rights in any way? Yugoslavia was beautiful, and instead now we have weak unstable Micro states. There, I probably answered my own question.

Yugoslavia worked for the overwhelming majority of its people - all of whom now are stuck in half-assed states and statelets too weak and insignificant to be of any importance for European affairs.
(Balkan Anthropologist, 10 March 2016 22:25)

Yes, it worked surprisingly well for sometime, considering it was a hybrid between Ottoman and Austro-Hungarian legacy. Until a little man started using the elite of the Serbian intelligentsia to write memorandums of complaints and rode the myth of Kosovo once more to gain power. With the usual arrogance of Serbs, he did not calculate the consequences very well. Didn't think Croatia, Slovenia and the others would react.
He did not calculate the interests of Germany either, which was really afraid that Zastava cars would replace Mercedes Benz worldwide. That must have come as a big surprise.

"Where is Kosovo no?....Even a deep black pit of tar lead by gangsters, organ and narcotic trafficers and criminals."
(jugoslavija, 10 March 2016 20:53)

no -> now
trafficers -> traffickers

Active verb is needed in the second sentence. "Even" does probably not belong there.

Ya Serbo-slavia was good for Serbs. Who made over 70% of the pathetic lazy communist bureaucracy of EX Yugo when they were only 30% ex Yugo population. Now the true Serbia shines in every statistic category as the bottom of the heap of EX Yugo Republics. Every one wanted [link] 36:10 out of Serb run Serbo-slavia but conniving thieving deranged criminal Serbia.
(Lenard, 11 March 2016 10:13)

You seem to have many problems with numbers Ustase, Serbians made up over 40% of the former Yugoslavia if not more.

As you should be aware, no Croat would call himself "Yugoslavian".

For a small insignificant country, why did Croatians dominate the Federal government before the outbreak of the civil war? Markovic and Mesic come to mind.

President Mesic-
Kadijevic-General

Croatians are like lice who cannot live in a democratic country. Under Austro Hungary they continually created civil wars between Austria and Hungary as Ban Jelacic was used as a disrupting force in the Austro-Hungarian Monarchy. Stephan Radic was not only a militant in the former Yugoslavia, but was also jailed many times by the Austrian and Hungarian authorities. He paid the ultimate price in the Yugoslav Parliament, rightly or wrongly he was shot dead, but he deserved his fate as an agitator to the state.

Mckain go home you no hero your prisoner chicke man. putin superman

Yes, Great Progress? Serbia and Serbian people doing just fine and dandy today? All Serbian people deported, displaced from Kosovo, Srpska Krajina and vast parts of Bosna - Herzegovina! Economic Isolation and Stagnation, Demonization and Villification of all Christian Eastern Orthodox Slavic people in the Balkans! The great old USA, what would we Serbians do with out you? The USA loves us Christian Eastern Orthodox Slavs so much, if any Serbian does not believe just go to any major city in the USA and put on a shirt with " I am Serbian " and walk around and then if your still alive then tell us about all that love and understanding the Arayan race has for us all! Yea, the USA posted that big evil lying picture to the whole world how we Serbian men rape all Muslum and Croatian woman and barbaque little children for dinner? Hitlers Final Solution right, Isolate, Demonize and villify and then finally Exterminate all Eastern Orthodox Christianity first in the Balkans and then all the way to Russia? Makes me so sick to see the Serbian Cival Leaders wasting precious time and energy, nothing positive is happening from all this entertaining the Devil! How can any Serbian ever forget the suffering of our innocent Brothers and Sisters during the last twenty some years? How can any one with a sane mind say that we are so well off and doing so fine today? Does any one ever think of asking the Serbian Siroce or Sirotica in the Balkans how they view the current situation? Boze Pravde!

Yes, it worked surprisingly well for sometime, considering it was a hybrid between Ottoman and Austro-Hungarian legacy. Until a little man started using the elite of the Serbian intelligentsia to write memorandums .....

Active verb is needed in the second sentence. "Even" does probably not belong there.
(Reader, 11 March 2016 15:25)

Look at this, the illiterate Albanian is teaching English and Grammar! You do realize that these postings are translated and edited in many cases by B-92 staffers who in many cases English is their second language.

There used to be a show called Seinfeld, it was branded a show about nothing. Very similar to your comments, a show about nothing.

Who is the "little man"?
Who wrote these Serbian Memorandums and when?
Who is this person who did not react to Croatia, Slovenia and B&H.

Yugoslavia was a civil war. If you are thinking Slobodan Milosevic, had command and control, he did not! The Hague Tribunal transcripts went in great depth on Serbia's involvement. Go read them and than make your argument if you can.

"Hybrid of Austro Hungarian and Ottoman Legacy" That hybrid as you call it already existed within the borders of Austro Hungary. If you read you history instead of talking about nothing, you would realize that the first Slavs who wanted to unite were Croats, Strossmeyer and Radic to name two.

Try actually "reading" a real book for change instead of trolling around the internet making ignorant comments.

"I think Prime Minister Vucic has been very strong and standing up to Russian pressure. Russian pressure is very different from American pressure. We don't want anything from Serbia. We would just want to see it become a more viable democracy, and Russia wants to have a dominating influence, and that makes it very, very difficult. So, all I can say is I applaud Prime Minister Vucic's standing up to Vladimir Putin but I also understand the pressures are very significant, so he has to be very careful."
--
You can replace Russia with America and vice versa. Vucic and Nikolic are weak leaders and that's the way McCain likes them. They can be easily controlled. Serbians can read straight through these lies. We all know we are pressured from the US and NATO, not Russia.

The resistance against the occupation is getting stronger. We want more Russian influence and a huge Thank You to Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin!

Here is a good analysis of the current occupation. Check -> http://inserbia.info/today/2016/03/trifkovic-serbia-is-now-de-facto-at-natos-disposal

Rubbish from rubbish!!!!

Right or wrong people of Croatia and Slovenia, didn't think that Yugoslavia was beautiful.
(Teodor Muzaka 1389, 10 March 2016 16:32)

You conveniently forgot to point out that Croatia, Slovenia and Serbia were sick and tired of dumping funds to Kosovo to a black hole. The Communist Party in Kosovo was primarily made up of Albanians who destroyed the Kosovo economy. Where is Kosovo no? Even a deep black pit of tar lead by gangsters, organ and narcotic trafficers and criminals.

rote, 10 March 2016 18:32

"everybody knows that SFRY was a prospering state"

Well, yes it was, but by 1989 it went bankrupt, one year earlier than the other Eastern-European communist states. So it was not such a prospering state after all. Only after this it started braking up.

It looks like Yugoslavia was good only for Serbs, who still continue to bully everyone who dared to disagree with their point of view.
(Teodor Muzaka 1389, 10 March 2016 16:32)

When you decide to actually check history instead of basing your opinions from the voices in your head, you'll find Yugoslavia was good for everyone - except of course Croatian emigre nationalists who continued to dream of an independent Croatian state, and Albanian separatists who continued to dream of an enlarged Albanian state. Yugoslavia worked for the overwhelming majority of its people - all of whom now are stuck in half-assed states and statelets too weak and insignificant to be of any importance for European affairs.

They should have left this demon in vietnam. He is pure evil, not to mention a total moron.

So Serbia is now with NATO That makes the final piece of Yugoslavia in NATO pocket. what did the Serbs get for Kosovo ?? and what did the NATO give the Serbs under the NATO Treaty ? can anyone explain ?

McCain is promoting American interests and he will continue working for what is best to make America richer and stronger. He does not care and does not respect Serbia. Don't listen to his praise or kind words, it is all 100% politics. America will continue to do what is best for America. Serbians will need to do what is best for Serbia. Wake up people. Change the leadership of the country. Don't allow your leaders to be puppets.

The SFRY was a dictatorship run by a Slovenian, not a Serb. And Tito hated Serbs. It was Tito's dictatorship that carved up Serbia, creating the autonomous provinces of Kosovo and Vojvodina. Recall also the Tito's SFRY was neutral.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_Federal_Republic_of_Yugoslavia

McCain is a wretch and a globalist, who cares nothing for the US or its interests or any peoples concerned about their national sovereignty. Muslim and Catholic global conspiracies are the engines of his foreign policy. Unless a federation contributes to such conspiracies as the SFRY most certainly did, they will find no friend in McCain.

That fact that McCain, who is a Serb hating neocon warmonger who has never seen a war he didn't like, is praising Vucic, is proof that Vucic is a total, and I do mean a TOTAL traitor.
To call McCain a disgrace to humanity is a huge understatement. He is the spokesman for the military industrial complex in the US, is a war profiteer, has worked tirelessly to arm head chopping jihadists in the middle east, arm organ snatching terrorists in Kosovo, arm jihadis in Bosnia, arm modern day nazis in Ukraine and Croatia, is a great friend to the ISIS loving Saudi head chopping regime (who fund him and his neocon colleagues), arm ISIS jihadis in Libya....arm head chopping Free Syrian army head choppers in Syria..the list is too long, but you get the picture. This man is pure evil. He is also a very stupid man, and graduated in the bottom 1% of his class at the naval academy. Neocon bosses love stupid and corrupt politicians, they are easily influenced to do whatever the warmongers tell them. McCain is that man, he is their man. He is the same league as Albright, up to his neck in the blood of innocents all over the world, and belongs in hell, which is where he and his ilk are headed.
Big lips Vucic is clearly a fifth columnist working for NATO war criminals. We need a government that will not even allow these war criminals on to contaminate Serbian soil, and God willing that day is coming.
Cheers!!

The breakup of Yugoslavia therefore was against the constitution of Yugoslavia and against international law.
(Joe A, 10 March 2016 17:31)

Can you please identify which international law was violated and by whom?
(icj1, 10 March 2016 21:06)

The international law of the sovereignty of a state to mention one. The US -with this neocon warmonger McCain part of that- as well as Germany have been very instrumental in the breakup of Yugoslavia.
(Joe A, 11 March 2016 06:32)

Ok, great, you're making some progress :) So, provide the following in order to prove your statement:

1. The precise text of the international law that you are referring to and the source;

2. A specific example of an action by the US or Germany that violated (1); and

3. When did (2) occur and how was it "instrumental" to the breakup of SFRY?

"I think Prime Minister Vucic has been very strong and standing up to Russian pressure. Russian pressure is very different from American pressure. We don't want anything from Serbia. We would just want to see it become a more viable democracy, and Russia wants to have a dominating influence, and that makes it very, very difficult. So, all I can say is I applaud Prime Minister Vucic's standing up to Vladimir Putin but I also understand the pressures are very significant, so he has to be very careful."
--------------------------------------
Don't want anything except 15% of your territory so that we have a giant base there.
That's not much to ask for.

Whom the U.S. government is courting, cornering, countering or counterfeiting, to what end and for what reason is none of Serbian concern and rests well outside our national sphere of interest. To an average Serb, the foreign policy of Washington DC is about as metaphysical and surreal as how many angels can sit on a pinhead at any given time.

Serbia will NEVER be a candidate for NATO, period. If nominated to join the "alliance", Serbian people will peremptorily decline; even if unanimously elected to NATO, it will decline to join. Serbs shall not seek, and shall not accept, the nomination of the American neoconservative phalanx to join the NATO pact. Which part of "NO!" you are not sure about?

We are neutral. We have every intention of STAYING neutral. We will have none of your "protection" (sic) racket and your "collateral" friendship reinforced with depleted uranium and 78 days and nights of your bombing. Leave is out of your strategic plans, your global designs, your alliances, your partnerships, your war propaganda, your schemes and your psy-ops, now and forevermore. Don't touch us, and we promise not to touch you. Pretty please with some Russian sugar on top...?

Go back to Vietnam where you belong.

aaa,

Not quite.

1. Serbia did not gain territory in Yugoslavia. Serbia was awarded territory by the great powers before Yugoslavia was even created for its heroic efforts against the Austro-Hugarian empire. The territory was paid for in the blood of 25% of the Serbian people.

2. As for Croatia you are wrong here too. See the map to confirm that Croatia left with far more land than it came in with. That land was at the expense of Serbia who liberated it from Austro-Hungary: http://10j-history.wikispaces.com/file/view/austro-hungary.gif/100045181/austro-hungary.gif

Marshall Tito was the worst thing that ever happened to Serbia. The worst. Someone should dig him and ship him to Croatia where he belongs.

"aaa".


Hungary had many problems in ruling Croatia even though Croats had a Sabor. It was not a tripartite kingdom, but a dual monarchy of which Croatia as ruled by Hungary, something that did not sit well with Croats, especially Radic. Radic a militant jailed both in Hungary and Yugoslavia for acts against the state. It's no secret we wanted separate Croatian/Slav state outside of Austro-Hungary and he pursued the same policy in Yugoslavia. Even before the Serb/Croat/Slovene state had a chance to being, he rejected the Constitution which was accepted by majority. He was again jailed in Yugoslavia only to be released after an agreement with Serb Radical Party leader Nikola Pasic which did not last. Nikola Pasic made two mistakes, the first was to accept Croatia into the Yugoslav Federation, the only reason Serbia accepted was that Dalmatia would have been lost, a small price to pay. The second mistake was to bring back the militant Radic back to Yugoslav politics. The rift and the creation began with Stephan Radic, it became larger after he was shot in parliament and even larger when King Alexander was assassinated in Marseilles in 1934. The Macek/Cvetkovic agreements was long time coming, but too late when the Nazi's invaded Yugoslavia and Ante Pavelic seized power unleashing the first dismantling of Yugoslavia.

Two is hardly domination, and the fact that their terms overlapped is pure coincidence. Kadijevic was half Serb and it was clear where his loyalty lay.

What was Tito, a Serb!!??

(aaa, 14 March 2016 11:56)

"That take away makes no sense at all, unless you are able to identify which international law was violated and by whom :)
(icj1, 10 March 2016 21:06)"

The UN Charter - which, by the way, remains the highest and universally BINDING international law (art.2, para 4) - specifically addresses the inviolability of the territory of the recognized state by another state (be it UN member or not) and bans all forms of aggression, invasion, occupation, unwarranted interference, undue pressure and meddling.

It is abundantly clear that United States government did everything in its power to - in every way possible - violate and destroy Yugoslavia...as well as dozens of other UN member states ever since. The violation culminated in unauthorized, illegal 78-day-and-night bombing of the Sovereign State of Yugoslavia, which even the highest-ranking NATO officials now agree was illegal and immoral.

If you are unaware of the UN Charter, or its binding character, please consult the educational institution nearest you.

"Russian pressure is very different from American pressure." Indeed it is! Priceless elucidation by a statesman/politician of such a grand substance and caliber. To all poor souls who may stick to a logic that "pressure" means "pressure" regardless of the adjective before it, and those who had experienced the said two pressures on their own skin and hence posses an empiric knowledge: you are simpletons who are unable to understand reality, but worry not - your stupidity will be forgiven by the famous, noble grace and mercy of the neocons...
This character has to remind you of those old vampire movies when a victim has to invite the vampire into the house before he can cross the threshold. Usually, however, movie victims are not aware of the vampire's identity - unlike this case. But nothing to fear, the "strong leader" Vucko will be spared, at least for now.
Anyways, what on Earth is JMcC doing in Serbia - there seems to be a new Van Helsing on the horizon (the one with a funny yellow hair), so the good old Johnny and his neocon cabal may do well to focus even more on him.

McCain says, "We don't want anything from Serbia."

I don't believe him. He is pandering to Serbia and it's people. Why?

Also, in Kosovo, no visa liberalization, Community of Serb Municipalities (ZSO) will be formed, no UNESCO membership, demanding establishment of court for KLA crimes.

The west and EU continues to intentionally disregard and isolate Kosovo in terms of trade, investment and travel while pandering to Serbia. Why?

Yugoslavia was a huge mistake by Serbia.

It should have just drawn its own borders after WW1 and forget about the others.

That said:

The others came into Yugo because they were Incapable and Unable to become functioning states able to stand on their own two feet.

A number of them came into Yugo with smaller territories than they left with. of these Croatia is the prime example. Came in with smaller territory and left with larger territory.

McCain , the most dangerous man in Americam and one of the most hated Rino Senator by American people . He was spewing pure hate against the Srbian people for decades and now he gives advice to the Serbian government! Shame on you Vucic and Nikolic , are you really such narcissistic idiots to believe the old Rino likes you and wishes Serbia prosperity ? Ugh!

aaa,

---- Serbia (not Yugoslavia) gained her territory by being on the side of the Allies and contributing materially to the Allied war effort against the Austro-Hungarian empire. The Yugoslavia you are speaking of did not exist at that time. The land was officially awarded a few years later (to honor Serbian war efforts)

---- Serbia gained Montengrin land? No so. It was Montenegro which gained territory. See two maps which support my stance:

map 1: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f8/Montenegro_territory_expanded_%281830-1944%29.png
map 2: https://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/europe/macedonb.jpg

--- I never said that Croatia increased its land mass at the expense of Serbia. I said that Croatia came in with less land than it left with. And that is a fact because:

1. The additional land (Istra) came to it because it was a part of Yugoslavia (it was unable to do this of it own power).

2. One may also say that it gained a grip on Dalmatia too. Dalmatia really has nothing to do with Croatia for most of Croatia's history. Croatian control didn't come until Croatia joined Yugoslavia. Croatia never fought Great Powers to gain Dalmatia and extend its sphere of influence. That came as fringe benefit of being part of Yugoslavia. Dalmatia was for the great majority of its history entirely independent or entirely foreign controlled.

Therefore the statement stands true: Croatia left Yugoslavia with more land than it came in with.

Go back to Vietnam where you belong.
(Peggy, 13 March 2016 01:03)


Go back to Serbistan, what is left of it. It can only get smaller, like Nokia, unless Serbistan joins NATO.

(icj1, 10 March 2016 21:06)
The international law of the sovereignty of a state to mention one. The US -with this neocon warmonger McCain part of that- as well as Germany have been very instrumental in the breakup of Yugoslavia. Their alphabet agencies had been active for decades to destabilize Yugoslavia. They thereby violated international law on the sovereignty of a state.

Bull shit

2. Serbia was barely able to reoccupy its own land without Allied help in WWI, let alone take Vojvodina. By that stage AH was already on the verge of disintegrating.
(aaa, 14 March 2016 18:32)

Not quite, after being trained and equipped in Corfu and Salonika, the Serbian army ripped through the Axis defenses taking hundreds and thousands of German, Austro-Hungarian and Bulgarian prisoners on its way to relieving Belgrade.

German Emperor Wilhelm, imperialism and Serbia’s opponents personified in his time, said of the Serbian people: “It is a shame that this small nation is not my ally.”

The new Viennese Greie Presse, a newspaper that waged the most intensive campaign against Serbia, wrote about the Serbian people in 1918: “It will remain a puzzle how the remnants of the Serbian army which managed to escape Mackensen’s army, could later be made fit for battle. It is proof that the Serbian soldier is among the toughest warriors the global conflagration has seen.”

The Cologne newspaper from 1918 states in the article The Psychology of Retreat: “Few soldiers fought like the Serbian soldier did. He died where he had been ordered to stand his ground.”

Field marshal Mackensen: “I have an unusual admiration and love for people from Šumadija. You are a heroic nation, full of honour and pride; a nation with a great and brilliant future.”

Source: http://defence.pk/threads/stories-about-serbs-and-serbia-in-ww1.313769/#ixzz42uAFkS67

Two is hardly domination, and the fact that their terms overlapped is pure coincidence. Kadijevic was half Serb and it was clear where his loyalty lay.

What was Tito, a Serb!!??

(aaa, 14 March 2016 11:56)

Kadijevic loyalty lied with the state of Yugoslavia, clearly he saw the writing on the wall after the blood bath in Vukovar and relieved himself. Under his leadership, the JNA goal was the protection of the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia. He would have clearly been condemned at the Hague Tribunal like Pavel Strugal to fit the "European western narrative".

(Teodor Muzaka 1389, 10 March 2016 16:32)
Yugoslavia was a federation. Legally, that meant that countries could break away from it only when all other countries would agree to it. Unlike a confederation where countries unilaterally can leave. Whatever you think of Yugoslavia, that was the legal base. The breakup of Yugoslavia therefore was against the constitution of Yugoslavia and against international law. The referendum in Bosnia was therefore illegal cause other remaining countries in the federation were not asked. When then Bosnian Serbs wanted to break away from BiH that was then not allowed. That is hypocrisy. Especially when then Crimea broke away from Ukraine. You see, Pandora's box was opened and from Kosovo, to Crimea to Catalunya the case of Yugoslavia was used as a justification.
What can be taken away from this is that international law does not really matter in geopolitics cause that was what the breakup of Yugoslavia was about. Foreign countries played an important role in that. With that a precedent was created.

As predicted.... and in direct contradiction to most sentiments expressed in these pages.

Serbia just needs to continue to "be neither/ be both" at the same time.

Don't go this way.... or that way.

Go neither way/ Go both ways.

Don't allow them to push you into choosing.... and don't be neutral.

Prosperity comes from this.

No disrespect to Mr. McCain, we can all understand why he's saying what he's saying, but this is really simple. America bombed Serbia when it should have been on Serbia's side, while Russia was on Serbia's side. America still considered to give back that important part of Serbia which was stolen. Everything worthwhile the US has to offer was inspired from Serbia, while everything else is wrapped in double-standards and agenda-driven exclusion. If all of that doesn't already scream "you can't trust us," there's also the option of reading the news - the Russian message is there for a good reason, it seems.

"staffers who in many cases English.."
->
staffers FOR WHOM, in many cases, English...

"Yugoslavia was a civil war."

Yugoslavia was a country, not a civil war.

"read them and than make your argument"
->
read them and THEN make your argument

"a real book for change"
->
a real book for A change


"You do realize that these postings are translated and edited in many cases by B-92 staffers"

Yes yugo, B92 pays people to translate your posts, that is how important you are, LOL. But instead, those little devils remove a k from traffickers to make it look like you wrote trafficers. Or change an e to an o in the word veracity.

(factman, 14 March 2016 01:40)

1. Regardless of under what conditions the land was obtained, Serbia did still gain Vojvodina and parts of Montenegro.

2. Both Croatia-Slavonia and Dalmatia were in the State of Slovenes, Croats and Serbs before joining Yugoslavia, so no. Please explain how it was at the expense of Serbia. The borders of Croatia and Serbia have changed numerous times over the years - indeed Dalmatia was part of Croatia for many years. Why do you consider 1918 the definite year for defining borders?

Jugoslavija,

'No Croata would call himself a Yugoslavian'

Though many did at the time. And as you mentioned in a previous post, Croats were at the forefront of the pan-South slavic Illyrian movement.

'Croatians cannot live in a democratic country'

Sure they can, the problem is when the country ceases to be democratic.

'why did Croats dominate the Federal government'

Two is hardly domination, and the fact that their terms overlapped is pure coincidence. Kadijevic was half Serb and it was clear where his loyalty lay.

'Under Austro Hungary they continually created wars between Austria and Hungary'

There was one civil war in 1848 - the cause of which lay with Hungary. Dont exxagereate.

'Stephan Radic was a militant/jailed many times'

Exactly how was he a militant? He was a moderate who was in coallition with Serb parties and never advocated violence. I suppose everyone in oppoistion to a reigime or government is automatically a militant? Regarding militants and extremists, you may have him confused with Punisa Racic, the guy who shot him. Though given the similarity in surnames, I can understand the mistake.

'he deserved his fate as an agitator to the state'

His murder widened the growing rift between Serbs and Croats, while also giving the Ustashe the justification to launch their own murderous campaign. He may have been an agitator, but should we murder everyone who voices opposition to a government? It that your definition of democracy?

(factman, 14 March 2016 15:40)

1. Your original statement was regarding counties entering Yugoslavia with less land than when they left. Check your map again and you'll see that Serbia gained land from Montenegro. However, as I mentioned previously the borders did change constantly and whether it counts as 'reclamation' can be argued.

2. Serbia was barely able to reoccupy its own land without Allied help in WWI, let alone take Vojvodina. By that stage AH was already on the verge of disintegrating.

3. Dalmatia has had plenty to do with Croatia (certainly more than Serbia), despite being sold to the Venetians and then being a separate entity under Austria-Hungary. One could argue the original Croat state was divided amongst two entities - to the extent that the coat of arms of Croatia-Slavonia included that of Dalmatia. I'll admit Croatia-Slavonia gained more land when exiting Yugoslavia, but Croatia not so.

(Jugoslavija, 14 March 2016 19:56)

Im not doubting the fighting ability of the Serbs, but they were heavily supported by the British and French divisions. So although they fought bravely, you cant give them the entire credit.

(Jugoslavija, 15 March 2016 16:43)

Well said. The British, French and remaining allied divisions focused their attention towards Albania, Bulgaria and Romania in the late-war offensives on the Macedonian Front. The liberation of Serbia proper was primarily down to the Serbs (with limited French help), I agree. However, in many of the breakthroughs into Vardar Macedonia which eased the subsequent push into Serbia, the British and French divisions had a large part (Battle of Monastir, Vardar Offensive, Monastir Offensive, Battle of Dobro Pole, etc.)

(Jugoslavija, 14 March 2016 15:33)

You make many good points, but the constitution was only accepted by the Serb and Muslim parties - the others either opposed or boycotted all together. And you still have failed to explain how exactly Radic was a militant - opposing the government and being jailed do not count.

Tito may have been (half) Croat, yet he did not adopt a Croat nationalist policy (please comment if you think otherwise). Yet government and running a country take more than one person. Compare with the first Yugoslavia where every prime minister except one was a Serb.

1. Your original statement was regarding counties entering Yugoslavia with less land than when they left. Check your map again and you'll see that Serbia gained land from Montenegro. However, as I mentioned previously the borders did change constantly and whether it counts as 'reclamation' can be argued

--- Of course one can't know of every little territorial change. But OK, let's say that Serbia gained a few square kilometers


2. Serbia was barely able to reoccupy its own land without Allied help in WWI, let alone take Vojvodina. By that stage AH was already on the verge of disintegrating

--- Ummmm. Of course they needed help. They were fighting against the most powerful empire of the time (10x its size). Serbia more than pulled its weight and was rewarded by the Allied powers because it contributed materially to the war effort. It's the reason Pres. Wilson flew the Serb flag over the White House: http://serbia.usembassy.gov/when-the-serbian-flag-flew-over-the-white-house.html


3. Dalmatia had plenty to do with Croatia (certainly more than Serbia), despite being sold to the Venetians and then being a separate entity under Austria-Hungary. One could argue the original Croat state was divided among two entities - to the extent that the coat of arms of Croatia-Slavonia included that of Dalmatia. I'll admit Croatia-Slavonia gained more land when exiting Yugoslavia, but Croatia not so.

--- OK. There is plenty to agree on. Lets agree to disagree on the rest :)

OK. There is plenty to agree on. Lets agree to disagree on the rest :)
(factman, 15 March 2016 02:20)

agreed :)

Im not doubting the fighting ability of the Serbs, but they were heavily supported by the British and French divisions. So although they fought bravely, you cant give them the entire credit.
(aaa, 15 March 2016 10:19)

Just outside of Thessaloniki is the Zetalnik grave site of all the allied armies during WWI, US, English, French, and Serbia. The Serbian grave site does not contain only Serbian fighters, but across the former Yugoslavia including Croatian fighters who volunteered to fight for Serbia.

Although the Serbian army repeatedly thwarted the Austro-Hungarian army, it was weakened because of the large amount of Slavs that General Poitorek also led who in many cases deserted.

As far as French and British support, very minimal at the outbreak of war. When Austro-Hungary attacked Serbia three times and were thrown back across the Sava and Drina Rivers, Serbia begged the French for infantry support, very few came. (Serbia did not need weapons, cannons or ammunition, the retreating Austro-Hungary army left plenty behind) The conflict was in stale mate for over one year where the Serbian army was more decimated by spread of Typhus than war until the German Offensive led by General Mackenson.
At the close of the war, more British and French support, but they certainly did not do the fighting for the Serbs, did not need to.

(aaa, 15 March 2016 18:14)

If you are interested on a good summary of the conflict between Austro-Hungary and Serbia, check this article out.

Military History Magazine
June 1991, page 26
Giant Repeatedly Thwarted
First once, then twice, little Serbia turned back the invading giant in World War I � but could her peasant armies withstand a third pummeling by mighty Austria that same year?
Emmett B. Ford, Jr.

http://www.aferguson.net/magindexes/default.asp?mag=milhist&author=Emmett%20B.%20Ford,%20Jr.