Serbian linguists: Bosniak language does not exist

"As to the substance of the debate, it is true that Serbian and Bosnian are very similar whereas Croatian has a number of distinct differences certainly where vocabulary is concerned."
(ned taylor, 21 August 2015 11:20)

Every serious linguist looking from outside will tell you that Serbian, Bosnian and Croatian can only be seen as dialects of the same language once called Serbo-Croatian. Always amazing how they try to create artificial differences with language. These dialects are closer to each other than, for example, German dialects form the North and the South, or the Austrian version of the common German language which is very closed to the Bavarian German - even though there are a few words exclusively used there.

P.S: Serbian using the Cyrillic alphabet instead of the Latin one makes no different language.

Indeed different languages are Slovenian and Macedonian, with all of them belonging to the Slavic branch of languages.

There is no such thing as a Croatian language, Montenegrin Language, Serbian Language or Bosnian Language. You can all understand each other because you all speak the Serbo-Croatian Language. You all pretend that your national dialects are languages. And using a different Alphabet doesn't make it a different language either.

To an outsider like me that has been living in Serbia, these so called separate languages of Serbian, Croatian, Montenegrin and Bosniak seems absurd and are nothing more than nationalist pride. If they are different languages then why can these people speak to and understand one another? Its like me saying I don't speak English, I speak American, Canadian, British, Irish, Scottish, New Zealandish and Australian languages.

The albanian language and culture also doesn't exist. Its just an offshoot of Turkey, and albanians are nothing more than turkish rejects from the slums of Ankara and Syria.

Albanian & Greek linguists insist that a Macedonia language doesn't exist and never has! Also, the Serbian language is a recently formed Russian offshoot!!!

The albanian language and culture also doesn't exist. Its just an offshoot of Turkey, and albanians are nothing more than turkish rejects from the slums of Ankara and Syria.
(rubbish, 21 August 2015 12:11

Rubbish - look at language tree and see for yourself, it will help you understand your origin as well!

There is this big wish of changing reality but in age of wisdom its not easy to obtain, we can search and read. Just because there are Serbian churches in Kosovo it does not make it Serbian. Just because you LOST a battle in 1389 does not make it so.

The Day someone explains to me why is Vojvodina Serbian? and when you will return it to Hungary?

Serbs identify themselves as Serbs distinct from the Croatians and Bosnians because of their Eastern Orthodox faith. The Croatians are Serbs who reject the Serbian identity because they have submitted to the Catholic Church. The Bosnians are Serbs who reject Serbian identity because they have submitted to Islam.

Furthermore, the Eastern Orthodox faith is older than both Islam and Roman Catholicism.

You do the math.

Is it any wonder that both the Bosnian and Croatians so fanatically hate people who identify themselves as Serbian?

Ned, those differences are artificial.

Attempts to differentiate and philosophically support a national mythology.

Croatian Linguists: Serb language does not exists!

Yeah the Bosnian language doesn't exist. And neither does the Serbian, Croatian or Montenegrin language. They're all just dialects of Serbo-Croatian. I don't understand why every country in the Balkans has to fake 1000+ years of history, pretend that they have a unique language, and act unnecessary nationalistic about it when people see through their fabrications. The Serbo-Croatian speaking populations are completely the same, there's no difference between them at all, Serbs, Croats, Montenegrins, Bosniaks, they are not unique at all, they're exactly the same people, the only difference between them is ethnonym and religion, I don't get why they feel the need to distance themselves from one another so much.

Ned, those differences are artificial.

Attempts to differentiate and philosophically support a national mythology.

Serbian, Bosnian, Croatian, and Montenegrin the same language and are closer than British English, American English, and Australian English, it's all just English. Razumijes? Razumes?

Serbian language doesn't exist. It's full of German, Hungarian, Greek and Turkish words. As well as Croat, Bosnian, and Montenegrin words. And perhaps Slovene and Albanian words too.

Just for information: You are right, there is very little between the three languages, my point was that there is even less between Serbian and Bosnian than between these two and Croatian. I'm not sure that any of the peoples would agree that they are creating 'artificial differences'. I would suggest that they would contend that in a new country they are seeking to establish a national identity.

Sure. Identity is OK too.

Most of the region has not experienced nationhood for any length of time (except maybe Serbia and Greece at 150 years or so)

So everyone reverts to these unfortunate nationalisms.

It was the same in Britain and France, etc, it just happened hundreds of years ago.

In the Balkans, development was stunted due to the Ottomans, so all these countries need to progress from unfortunate nationalisms to mature nationalisms.

It will take a few generations.

"How about this scenario. A Serb decides to convert to Catholicism he then becomes a Croat,"

Do not know, some Serbs are buddhists, some Bosnians are mormons... let Milosevic, Tudjman and Izetbegovic decide in their meeting hold in hottest part of hell, who they are.

'A Bosniak language - especially as Bosnian - linguistically does not exist, the Committee for the Standardization of the Serbian Language is convinced.'

Oh, thank god for Soviet experts, so called, I mean Serbian experts, to set us all right and proper about the Bosnian language (and by extension, presumably, the whole country) not really existing. These articles and announcements are bringing so much more esteem and honour to Serbia's allegedly democratic press. You go, B92!

The albanian language and culture also doesn't exist. Its just an offshoot of Turkey ...

(rubbish)


I have no idea about the Shqiptar language but everything you write is real rubbish. How the Turkic languages were developed in the medieval times is a dark story. Yet there are things that we know for sure. The current Turkish was formed in 1923-1928 by two Russian (of Tatar and Barshkir origins) Turkic speaking philologists. Ataturk invited them to reform the Turkish and they succeeded. Evidently he knew whom to invite as most of the Turkic speaking people in Turkey were former Bulgars (including the Russians) from Volga region. Turkic speaking people had no influence in the huge empire of the Great Porta (Horda) before early 18-19 century. But their role was increasing to peak in 1928. It was then that this newly formed language became official and all the citizens were declared to be Turks. Today about 170-175 million speak various Turkic languages with 95% of them Muslims. Turkic speaking peoples played a big role in the Great Horda (Porta) and in some regions made from 20 to 50% of the Cossacks. Yet word TURKS was mostly used to mark the Russians. Besides before 17 century Russian names were different. They used to have church names but in everyday life they very often used names of the Turkic origin like Мурза, Салтанко, Татаринко, Сулейша, Сумгур, Сунбул, Сурьян, Ташлык, Темир, Тенбяк, Турсулок, Шабан, Кудияр, Мурад, Неврюй ect.

This is interesting in the week that Serbs protested about decisions made in Croatia regarding the Cyrillic script. I cannot get away from a sense that all these decisions on all sides are simply about poking fingers in each other's eyes and nothing to do with reality. As to the substance of the debate, it is true that Serbian and Bosnian are very similar whereas Croatian has a number of distinct differences certainly where vocabulary is concerned.

"and when you will return it to Hungary?"

Soft Spoken

The day you return Kosovo to Serbia and Albania to Greece!

"Serbian linguists: Bosniak language does not exist"

First comes the denial of language, then of history, then of existence. The last one is not just an academic point, but it is done with AK47 and bullets and brings out "academic works" like Srebrenica and Vukovar. Didn't these Serbian academics learn anything from the 90's? Are they really this stupid?

How about the Hindi & Urdu language? Aren't they really the same even though a noticeable difference is that Hindi handwriting is Sanskrit style handwriting ( is that what you call it?) and Urdu handwriting is similar to Arabic handwriting.

It's true - in fact they are NOT bosniak- they are Albanian-therefore they should chose as their mother language Albanian language if you want to really be different from the Slavic language...

Naim : "in fact they are NOT bosniak- they are Albanian-therefore they should chose as their mother language Albanian ..."


Genetically Bosniaks are pure South Slavs while the Shqiptars as I remember are closer to the Greeks, Turkish Jews and south Italians. During the Ottomans passing to Islam wasn’t a big crime as people believed that it was another version of Christianity. And even western chronicles will tell you that routes of Islam are inside the Nestorian version of Christianity where no icons were allowed. Since 16 century some of the churches were turned into mosques but Christians kept on praying there as well as the Muslims prayed in the churches. This is why in Russia all old churches have the cross with half-moon beneath the cross. So it wasn’t a big treason in the medieval times plus it saved them from some of the taxes. First mosques were documented in an old French map of Stanbul dated 1572. There were only several mosques there while churches were multiple. And all those first mosques on the globe were former churches. Because all of them were oriented to the east and the chapels were restored into minarets with the same function of calling for the prayer. Out of big mosques there was only one The famous Mosque of Selim II and it was also a former church. I don’t know how it was with the Bosniaks but it could not necessarily be a treason of their faith. They could quite believe that Islam was a better version of Christianity.

How about this scenario. A Serb decides to convert to Catholicism he then becomes a Croat,changes their mind and goes for Islam instead and now is a Bosniak. Another,still Orthodox,Serb walks by and says to the newly established Bosniak "Dobar Dan". What do you think the Bosniak who used to be a Croat,and before that a Serb,says in reply? Let me guess, if they are convivial,"Dobar Dan". Sound similar??

Did patriarch Irinej intervene in this case too? Few days ago he wanted six grade history books changed from "Serbs stole Kosovo from Albanians to we Serbs are angels".

hahaha, the pot calling the kettle black! Serbian language does not exist either!! Just call it Yugoslavian or Russian and be done with it. Stop fighting over non-sense, we all know it's the same language.

How about the Hindi & Urdu language?

(resident of Fredericton)


I can explain about Hindi and Urdu. Pakistan is an interesting state based on the same caste principles as India. Yet because of Islam they are wrapped in other paper. This country have 4 main peoples : Panjanies (about 50%), Pastuns (25%), Sigh (15%) and Beludji or Baluts (10%) and they have 2 state languages (Urdu and English) that are not native to 98% of the Pakistanis. You’re right that initially Urdu de facto was Hindi written in Arabic letters. Word written is important as any use of printing machines is forbidden here so all books, newspapers and other things are handmade then copied and printed. So their calligraphy is really amazing ! Still 69 years of independence brought many changes to the languages connected with Islam of course. In fact Urdu means ARMY i.e. HORDA. When the Muhajerins who ran away from India in 1947 seized power here they had to decide which of the languages must become a state one. They knew only Hindi so they had a choice EITHER WE LEARN THE LANGUAGES OF THE CATTLE OR THE CATTLE LEARNS OUR LANGUAGE. As you may guess they simply gave new name to the Hindi language … Explanation was very simple ARMY (URDU) IS THE PLOT OF OUR INDEPENDENCE SO THE LANGUAE MUST BE THE ONE USED TO GIVE COMMANDS IN THE ARMY.

PS Old Sanskrit is the old Russian.

"A Bosniak language - especially as Bosnian - linguistically does not exist, the Committee for the Standardization of the Serbian Language is convinced"

Hmm, God forbid the Committee for the Standardization of the Serbian Language gets convinced that an English language does not exist :)

Factman: Replace 'mythology' with 'identity' in your sentence and I agree with you.

Hmm, God forbid the Committee for the Standardization of the Serbian Language gets convinced that an English language does not exist :)
(icj1, 24 August 2015 00:40)
=================================
No need to alter anything there because English is spoken in countries which have independence from England. You see, they recognize that the language they speak is English and not American.Australian or Canadian. Just because there are minor differences it doesn't mean that it's not the same language. Only fools pretend that it isn't.

Peggy the infamous hypocrite said about the English language "its the same language only a FOOL ...."

Slovenian, Croatian,Bosnian,Montenegrian and Serbia are all the same with very little difference.

Take everything you said ...Peggy... and replace the word English with Serbia .

Do you see it now?

(Andrew, 21 August 2015 19:04) these so called separate languages of Serbian, Croatian, Montenegrin and Bosniak seems absurd and are nothing more than nationalist pride.
....

I would classify more as nationalistic ignorance.

The most serious and recent research I could find on genes, language and populations is done by Cavalli-Sforza at Stanford University in California. They seem to be the authority on this matter and they place the Albanian language at the root of all European languages having appeared around 8 to 9 thousand years ago with Greek language appearing only around 4 to 5 thousand years ago.
http://tinyurl.com/ogth7v5

Peggy our brothers and sisters love in KosovA,Albania,Malsia,Ilirida,Presheva Valley and Chameria and continue to speak SHQIPE.

Same language .,....

Same blood......

Same people....


Unjustly divided but will inevitably
Reunited in the EU and NATO.

Greetings from the United States of Albania-USA.

A non-Slavi indigenous ancient people.

Croatian Linguists: Serb language does not exists!

Albanian & Greek linguists insist that a Macedonia language doesn't exist and never has! Also, the Serbian language is a recently formed Russian offshoot!!!

The albanian language and culture also doesn't exist. Its just an offshoot of Turkey, and albanians are nothing more than turkish rejects from the slums of Ankara and Syria.

The albanian language and culture also doesn't exist. Its just an offshoot of Turkey, and albanians are nothing more than turkish rejects from the slums of Ankara and Syria.
(rubbish, 21 August 2015 12:11

Rubbish - look at language tree and see for yourself, it will help you understand your origin as well!

There is this big wish of changing reality but in age of wisdom its not easy to obtain, we can search and read. Just because there are Serbian churches in Kosovo it does not make it Serbian. Just because you LOST a battle in 1389 does not make it so.

The Day someone explains to me why is Vojvodina Serbian? and when you will return it to Hungary?

Serbian language doesn't exist. It's full of German, Hungarian, Greek and Turkish words. As well as Croat, Bosnian, and Montenegrin words. And perhaps Slovene and Albanian words too.

"Serbian linguists: Bosniak language does not exist"

First comes the denial of language, then of history, then of existence. The last one is not just an academic point, but it is done with AK47 and bullets and brings out "academic works" like Srebrenica and Vukovar. Didn't these Serbian academics learn anything from the 90's? Are they really this stupid?

It's true - in fact they are NOT bosniak- they are Albanian-therefore they should chose as their mother language Albanian language if you want to really be different from the Slavic language...

"and when you will return it to Hungary?"

Soft Spoken

The day you return Kosovo to Serbia and Albania to Greece!

'A Bosniak language - especially as Bosnian - linguistically does not exist, the Committee for the Standardization of the Serbian Language is convinced.'

Oh, thank god for Soviet experts, so called, I mean Serbian experts, to set us all right and proper about the Bosnian language (and by extension, presumably, the whole country) not really existing. These articles and announcements are bringing so much more esteem and honour to Serbia's allegedly democratic press. You go, B92!

This is interesting in the week that Serbs protested about decisions made in Croatia regarding the Cyrillic script. I cannot get away from a sense that all these decisions on all sides are simply about poking fingers in each other's eyes and nothing to do with reality. As to the substance of the debate, it is true that Serbian and Bosnian are very similar whereas Croatian has a number of distinct differences certainly where vocabulary is concerned.

Naim : "in fact they are NOT bosniak- they are Albanian-therefore they should chose as their mother language Albanian ..."


Genetically Bosniaks are pure South Slavs while the Shqiptars as I remember are closer to the Greeks, Turkish Jews and south Italians. During the Ottomans passing to Islam wasn’t a big crime as people believed that it was another version of Christianity. And even western chronicles will tell you that routes of Islam are inside the Nestorian version of Christianity where no icons were allowed. Since 16 century some of the churches were turned into mosques but Christians kept on praying there as well as the Muslims prayed in the churches. This is why in Russia all old churches have the cross with half-moon beneath the cross. So it wasn’t a big treason in the medieval times plus it saved them from some of the taxes. First mosques were documented in an old French map of Stanbul dated 1572. There were only several mosques there while churches were multiple. And all those first mosques on the globe were former churches. Because all of them were oriented to the east and the chapels were restored into minarets with the same function of calling for the prayer. Out of big mosques there was only one The famous Mosque of Selim II and it was also a former church. I don’t know how it was with the Bosniaks but it could not necessarily be a treason of their faith. They could quite believe that Islam was a better version of Christianity.

Did patriarch Irinej intervene in this case too? Few days ago he wanted six grade history books changed from "Serbs stole Kosovo from Albanians to we Serbs are angels".

How about the Hindi & Urdu language?

(resident of Fredericton)


I can explain about Hindi and Urdu. Pakistan is an interesting state based on the same caste principles as India. Yet because of Islam they are wrapped in other paper. This country have 4 main peoples : Panjanies (about 50%), Pastuns (25%), Sigh (15%) and Beludji or Baluts (10%) and they have 2 state languages (Urdu and English) that are not native to 98% of the Pakistanis. You’re right that initially Urdu de facto was Hindi written in Arabic letters. Word written is important as any use of printing machines is forbidden here so all books, newspapers and other things are handmade then copied and printed. So their calligraphy is really amazing ! Still 69 years of independence brought many changes to the languages connected with Islam of course. In fact Urdu means ARMY i.e. HORDA. When the Muhajerins who ran away from India in 1947 seized power here they had to decide which of the languages must become a state one. They knew only Hindi so they had a choice EITHER WE LEARN THE LANGUAGES OF THE CATTLE OR THE CATTLE LEARNS OUR LANGUAGE. As you may guess they simply gave new name to the Hindi language … Explanation was very simple ARMY (URDU) IS THE PLOT OF OUR INDEPENDENCE SO THE LANGUAE MUST BE THE ONE USED TO GIVE COMMANDS IN THE ARMY.

PS Old Sanskrit is the old Russian.

The albanian language and culture also doesn't exist. Its just an offshoot of Turkey ...

(rubbish)


I have no idea about the Shqiptar language but everything you write is real rubbish. How the Turkic languages were developed in the medieval times is a dark story. Yet there are things that we know for sure. The current Turkish was formed in 1923-1928 by two Russian (of Tatar and Barshkir origins) Turkic speaking philologists. Ataturk invited them to reform the Turkish and they succeeded. Evidently he knew whom to invite as most of the Turkic speaking people in Turkey were former Bulgars (including the Russians) from Volga region. Turkic speaking people had no influence in the huge empire of the Great Porta (Horda) before early 18-19 century. But their role was increasing to peak in 1928. It was then that this newly formed language became official and all the citizens were declared to be Turks. Today about 170-175 million speak various Turkic languages with 95% of them Muslims. Turkic speaking peoples played a big role in the Great Horda (Porta) and in some regions made from 20 to 50% of the Cossacks. Yet word TURKS was mostly used to mark the Russians. Besides before 17 century Russian names were different. They used to have church names but in everyday life they very often used names of the Turkic origin like Мурза, Салтанко, Татаринко, Сулейша, Сумгур, Сунбул, Сурьян, Ташлык, Темир, Тенбяк, Турсулок, Шабан, Кудияр, Мурад, Неврюй ect.

Serbs identify themselves as Serbs distinct from the Croatians and Bosnians because of their Eastern Orthodox faith. The Croatians are Serbs who reject the Serbian identity because they have submitted to the Catholic Church. The Bosnians are Serbs who reject Serbian identity because they have submitted to Islam.

Furthermore, the Eastern Orthodox faith is older than both Islam and Roman Catholicism.

You do the math.

Is it any wonder that both the Bosnian and Croatians so fanatically hate people who identify themselves as Serbian?

The most serious and recent research I could find on genes, language and populations is done by Cavalli-Sforza at Stanford University in California. They seem to be the authority on this matter and they place the Albanian language at the root of all European languages having appeared around 8 to 9 thousand years ago with Greek language appearing only around 4 to 5 thousand years ago.
http://tinyurl.com/ogth7v5

Factman: Replace 'mythology' with 'identity' in your sentence and I agree with you.

Sure. Identity is OK too.

Most of the region has not experienced nationhood for any length of time (except maybe Serbia and Greece at 150 years or so)

So everyone reverts to these unfortunate nationalisms.

It was the same in Britain and France, etc, it just happened hundreds of years ago.

In the Balkans, development was stunted due to the Ottomans, so all these countries need to progress from unfortunate nationalisms to mature nationalisms.

It will take a few generations.

To an outsider like me that has been living in Serbia, these so called separate languages of Serbian, Croatian, Montenegrin and Bosniak seems absurd and are nothing more than nationalist pride. If they are different languages then why can these people speak to and understand one another? Its like me saying I don't speak English, I speak American, Canadian, British, Irish, Scottish, New Zealandish and Australian languages.

How about this scenario. A Serb decides to convert to Catholicism he then becomes a Croat,changes their mind and goes for Islam instead and now is a Bosniak. Another,still Orthodox,Serb walks by and says to the newly established Bosniak "Dobar Dan". What do you think the Bosniak who used to be a Croat,and before that a Serb,says in reply? Let me guess, if they are convivial,"Dobar Dan". Sound similar??

Hmm, God forbid the Committee for the Standardization of the Serbian Language gets convinced that an English language does not exist :)
(icj1, 24 August 2015 00:40)
=================================
No need to alter anything there because English is spoken in countries which have independence from England. You see, they recognize that the language they speak is English and not American.Australian or Canadian. Just because there are minor differences it doesn't mean that it's not the same language. Only fools pretend that it isn't.

Peggy our brothers and sisters love in KosovA,Albania,Malsia,Ilirida,Presheva Valley and Chameria and continue to speak SHQIPE.

Same language .,....

Same blood......

Same people....


Unjustly divided but will inevitably
Reunited in the EU and NATO.

Greetings from the United States of Albania-USA.

A non-Slavi indigenous ancient people.

Just for information: You are right, there is very little between the three languages, my point was that there is even less between Serbian and Bosnian than between these two and Croatian. I'm not sure that any of the peoples would agree that they are creating 'artificial differences'. I would suggest that they would contend that in a new country they are seeking to establish a national identity.

There is no such thing as a Croatian language, Montenegrin Language, Serbian Language or Bosnian Language. You can all understand each other because you all speak the Serbo-Croatian Language. You all pretend that your national dialects are languages. And using a different Alphabet doesn't make it a different language either.

Yeah the Bosnian language doesn't exist. And neither does the Serbian, Croatian or Montenegrin language. They're all just dialects of Serbo-Croatian. I don't understand why every country in the Balkans has to fake 1000+ years of history, pretend that they have a unique language, and act unnecessary nationalistic about it when people see through their fabrications. The Serbo-Croatian speaking populations are completely the same, there's no difference between them at all, Serbs, Croats, Montenegrins, Bosniaks, they are not unique at all, they're exactly the same people, the only difference between them is ethnonym and religion, I don't get why they feel the need to distance themselves from one another so much.

"A Bosniak language - especially as Bosnian - linguistically does not exist, the Committee for the Standardization of the Serbian Language is convinced"

Hmm, God forbid the Committee for the Standardization of the Serbian Language gets convinced that an English language does not exist :)

"As to the substance of the debate, it is true that Serbian and Bosnian are very similar whereas Croatian has a number of distinct differences certainly where vocabulary is concerned."
(ned taylor, 21 August 2015 11:20)

Every serious linguist looking from outside will tell you that Serbian, Bosnian and Croatian can only be seen as dialects of the same language once called Serbo-Croatian. Always amazing how they try to create artificial differences with language. These dialects are closer to each other than, for example, German dialects form the North and the South, or the Austrian version of the common German language which is very closed to the Bavarian German - even though there are a few words exclusively used there.

P.S: Serbian using the Cyrillic alphabet instead of the Latin one makes no different language.

Indeed different languages are Slovenian and Macedonian, with all of them belonging to the Slavic branch of languages.

How about the Hindi & Urdu language? Aren't they really the same even though a noticeable difference is that Hindi handwriting is Sanskrit style handwriting ( is that what you call it?) and Urdu handwriting is similar to Arabic handwriting.

Ned, those differences are artificial.

Attempts to differentiate and philosophically support a national mythology.

Serbian, Bosnian, Croatian, and Montenegrin the same language and are closer than British English, American English, and Australian English, it's all just English. Razumijes? Razumes?

"How about this scenario. A Serb decides to convert to Catholicism he then becomes a Croat,"

Do not know, some Serbs are buddhists, some Bosnians are mormons... let Milosevic, Tudjman and Izetbegovic decide in their meeting hold in hottest part of hell, who they are.

hahaha, the pot calling the kettle black! Serbian language does not exist either!! Just call it Yugoslavian or Russian and be done with it. Stop fighting over non-sense, we all know it's the same language.

(Andrew, 21 August 2015 19:04) these so called separate languages of Serbian, Croatian, Montenegrin and Bosniak seems absurd and are nothing more than nationalist pride.
....

I would classify more as nationalistic ignorance.

Ned, those differences are artificial.

Attempts to differentiate and philosophically support a national mythology.

Peggy the infamous hypocrite said about the English language "its the same language only a FOOL ...."

Slovenian, Croatian,Bosnian,Montenegrian and Serbia are all the same with very little difference.

Take everything you said ...Peggy... and replace the word English with Serbia .

Do you see it now?