Why do you waste your time for me ? Why not read Fomenko fist ? Start with his 24 films of the new chronology with English subtitles. They are very persuasive and it will drive you crazy. When you calm down start to read his reconstruction of history. …. http://www.chronologia.org/en/how_it_was/index.html ... If it not kills you start reading his 24 books. Then we’ll have something to discuss. Reading Wikipedia about Fomenko is same as asking the Croats or Albanians about the Serbs or the opposite. Don’t be naive about the West it was them who stole our history so Fomenko is the mortal enemy of theirs.
@rote
Newton was a good physician, what makes you think he was a good historian?
Being famous in physics, he tried to be expert on many things in his lifetime, he also tried to give financial advice where he failed miserably by losing his fortune in the south sea bubble, not to mentions his beliefs in the bible, alchemy etc.
Using the fallacy of authority to prove a point does not make it more valid.
Do you really believe that if there was an ounce of truth on Fomenko's rambling it would go unnoticed by the scientific community in the Western world. I get it, we might be manipulated by our government, but do you think all universities and research institutions of science will be silenced into believing a lie?
Fomenko has an audience near russians dreaming for the big slav empire, no sensible person would take him seriously.
I have plenty of time every summer but you’re right sometimes I too think I am an idiot knocking on your closed doors. Serbs are happy to kill the Russian Great Kniaz Dmitry I on Kosovo Field while you believe that someone with Slav parents, Slav wife and Slav names of all his 9 children could be national hero of the Shqiptaret. A couple of days ago I wrote it here that monasteries were initially established to home the retired Horde soldiers. Yesterday I checked it once again reading about the most known Russina monks. Those were Peresvet and Osliablia. They took part in the greatest Kulikovo Battle and Peresvet was the one who fought the mightiest “Tatar” warrior Kochubei. Isn’t it strange that the Russians moved forward a monk ? It isn’ if you know who were the monks then. Both were Boyars ( i.e. professional warriors ) before they became monks. One could not inherit the title as it was awarded for personal achievements. So the monks were professional warriors. But today it looks as strange as my statement about the monasteries. In late 16 century Joseph Scaliger gave approximate place where Israel, Palestine and Judea could be and it proved to be a small spot in the dead desert where Europeans got first access only 220 years later. Go to Wiki and see what happened in Jerusalem between 1500 and 1900. They give zero info about the period because the city was built only in early 19 century. Ect.
(rote, 28 July 2015 19:01)
Two things have come to mind:
1.You have an enormous amount of time on your hands and from the number of posts occurring at all times of the day and the extensiveness of them ( hard to believe the moderators are making you stick to the 1500 character rule) you have become obsessed with this website and spend the equivalent of a full time job here. So I think you are either recently retired, incarcerated in a place that allows you unlimited computer access, or physically incapacitated to where you have no other outlet.
2. You are definitely a legend in your own mind! The way you think that you somehow put people in their place like this is some cyber video game and you are discharging words like weapons, means you have serious psychological issues. The one thing you need to know is if someone thinks you are an idiot, then you go on your rant and mix Russian and English and post thousands of links, at the end of the day that person is still going to say "idiot"
I find myself seeing a lengthy post and I immediately skim to the end to see if it is you and then I decide whether I want to waste my time reading it or not, and more and more frequently it is becoming no as life is too short to waste. Maybe if I were some psychologist doing research and there might be a payoff at the end but just for something to do no way.
"I have no time for reading all Fomenko's rubbish"
The link was not of Fomenko but of Isaak Newton who 280 years before Fomenko wrote similar things. He feared to publish the book so it was edited only after his death.
@rote
sorry dude, I didn't call you crazy to offend, rather to say how out of the ordinary your ideas were.
I have no time for reading all Fomenko's rubbish but his theory is total nonsense, I know it is wikipedia but it gives you a good summary of the issue in the link below it.
Sorry,I am not buying it, it is good material for conspiracy theorists though.
Many will tell you here that when I start to call names life becomes a grey. So next time you open your mouth think twice and best if you read something before. Yesterday it took me more than an hour to read the links you gave. Linguistic critics of Zalizniak have some reasons but he takes only few of the thousands evidence that ATF offers. I also doubted this part of ATF&Co theory because they translate everything only from Russian. Meanwhile we all know that he Horde was a multinational force although led by the Slavs. Say we have geographic places translated from other Horde languages like Cabarda in Spain or London. In such cases they declare the Goth-Alanians or Sarmatians of as Slavs … Yes their R1b happlogroup is a sister to the Russian R1a1a but if so then the Iranians, Panjabi, Pashtuns, Hindu, Kirgiz, Kurd, Bengali and Belujistan people are also Slavs … So I do not automatically accept their new chronology. And also they repeat it many times that many of the things are their hypothesis. But there are things that they insist on and then they are very persuasive. Below I give a link of “A Short Chronicle from the First Memory of Things in Europe, to the Conquest of Persia by Alexander the Great” by Isaak Newton. Later if you behave I’ll supply you with a link of Robert Newton from NASA about the astronomical chronology.
"Shqiperi" - means the land of the eagles … The symbol of Kastrioti family was the black "two-head eagle", the flag of Gjergj Kastrioti … all our neighbors and all the world call us Albanians.”
But Skanderbeg everything else looks OK. The eagle you is the family symbol of the Christ’s family (the Komnins) … https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Komnenos-Isaac-Arms.svg. … It also remained on the Russian and Serbian flags while in the rest of Europe the eastern heads of the eagles were cut off in 17-18 centuries. But because the Shqiptaret and the Serbs remained in the Ottoman Empire they managed to save their old Hordic symbols. And of course it’s your business how to call yourself because it’s your real mane. But you say that all the rest call you Albanians. So what ? All the rest call other names many peoples like the Armenians, Georgians, Germans, Ossetians, Cherkess ect. Say Ossetians call themselves “Iron” and it sounds exactly as Iran (Iron) in Persian. So is their language close to Iranian and Kurdish. Kurds are called “halk-e Kurd” (Kurd people) while their old name was “halk-e Horde” (Horde people). Everybody could be a Kurd – Shiptaret, Russians, Serbs, Bulgarians ect. as it didn’t mean nation or language they spoke. That’s why happlogroups and languages of the Kurds in 4 countries differ so much. Thus the only thing I disagree is Skanderbeg and I’ve already explained twice why he could merely be of you.
Some of your arguments I cannot estimate, some I disagree but I gave you my LIKE because you are the first one who at least tries to explain things. All the rest just give their POOR COMMENTS without any explanation. Joni you have to know that for me explanation is when you tell an ancient or medieval document or artefact with proven reliability. From this point by mentioning the Illyrians you make a strategic mistake as it proves nothing but it arises a new question if you had anything to do with the Illyrians. So now you have two things to prove. And it’s not only the problem of the Sqiptaret but most of the people in the region. I mean the Greeks, Macedonians, Kurds, Serbs, Armenians, Turks, Persians, Arabs, Arameans, Jews, Romanians, Russians ect. Last week I investigated one problem : if two Russian generals and one American were 3 men or 2 or 1 ? Two Russians were of Armenian origin so sooner or later I came to reading about the Armenian rulers and dynasties. I was shocked to find dozens of them in all the countries around. Try to find Асадов Юрий Андреевич : Родословные тайны армянских князей in English. So it’s a big question whom we call the Armenians. Same with most of the peoples who call themselves different. I believe that Albanians (the whites) were the people of the White Horde (the main Horde)who seized the world in 15-16 centuries. It mustn't harm you as Shqiptaret is a good and seems that the real name of yours.
@rote,
I thought I was nuts but you are totally crazy, follow the links I sent you if you can read Russian, Fomenko theories are pseudo science, if it entertains you, that is fine, but otherwise don't waste your time with it. Da Vinci Code is way more fun. I am sure Pyramids of Egypt were built 300 years ago by the Horde, get a grip dude, you start sounding that nationalist Albos that believe they are the belly button of the world.
@jony
Yes, it is fascinating that Albanians call God Zeus in their tongue, no other people does that, not even the greeks. There are many other ancient gods that make more sense in albanian that have no valid explanation in greek yet are part of greek mythology, I found a lot of research done by german scholars in the 18th century in the subject. Given the studies of Cavalli-Sforza placing the albanian way before the greek in the language tree, one could speculate that the incoming greeks borrowed most of the gods from native albanians living in the peninsula.
Now when you look at the albanians, they do have some traits of native peoples, no real allegiance to any religion other than immediate economic interests, stubborn, not very developed, no written language history. They look similar to the native peoples in North America to me.
@ rote
5/ Because there’s no evidence that the Shqiptaret are the medieval Albanians
* Albania name - derive from the ilyrian tribe of Albani or Albanoi.
* In Gheg dialect (Gjergj Kastrioti Skanderbeg dialect ) - Shqipe - mean eagle, while in Tosk dialect is : Shqiponj
"Shqipe" + "rri" - means "eagles + stay" in Albanian if you check one by one the words.
And like a phrase in Albanian means: "where the eagles stand "
And "Shqiperi" - means the land of the eagles in Albanian
The symbol of Kastrioti family was the black "two-head eagle", the flag of Gjergj Kastrioti Skanderbeg was the red flag with the black "two-head eagle".
Albania have the same flag till today.
Sorry i have not too much time to explain it in detail.
Just we call ourselves "Shqiptar" which means in our language "the eagles" all our neighbors and all the world call us Albanians.
Is the same even for the Greeks - nobody know Ellada or Hellenica - because just Greeks call themselves like this.
Peggy I have been to Russia many many times and I tell you majority of population has no clue what Serbia does or even is outside of ability to point in map. When did Russian people have to do anything with what Russian government does by the way? If you believe that I am selling a bridge i would like to sell you.
Where do you think we are going to if anyone is gone you are living far far away in Australia!!!
(Soft Spoken, 27 July 2015 14:37
=====================================
Maybe you should go to Russia a few more times and ask the average Russian how they feel about Serbs. On your previous trips you must've stumbled on tourists in Russia.
Russian people have as much influence on their government as anyone else. Actually, the Yanks have a lot less influence but they think they have more. If you compare Putin to Obama right now I think that Putin is a much better president. At least he loves Russia, unlike Obama who seems to have a dislike to the US. Have you paid attention to that man lately? Talk about standard of living, well the US has nothing to be proud of. A whole city going bankrupt and homelessness is a real problem. Just becaue the media wants to bury their head in the sand doesn't mean you don't have a real problem with poverty and you point at Russia! Can an average Anmerican do anything to change the situation? Can they stop the government from attacking the world?
“I was totally stunned to find out that Albanian still call God Zeus in their tongue”
I can tell you where all those “Greek” gods appeared. We have them on some of the oldest churches of ours ! Including the famous Uspensky Sobor in Vladimir built by Aristotel Fyorovanti himself. … https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dormition_Cathedral,_Vladimir … After the Romanovs seized power they destroyed all such bas-reliefs but some remained. On the upper side of the walls here you will find Jesus and all his relatives from the ruing Horde family of the Rurik/Komnins who wrote all those fairy tales about the Olympic Gods ect. It lasted till 1370 when Great Khan Dmitry Donskoy refused from their family (royal) Christianity. Their logic was simple as Jesus is one of us we too are Gods … Dmitry I put an end to it and introduced the Apostolic Christianity where all people became equal nder the Lord. He baptised the country but he had to fight for it until he was killed on Kosovo Polje as Murad I. So Zeus and the smaller gods were all invented in Russia but in 17-18 centuries they all were granted to the Greeks. I have no hatred for the Sqiptaret and I believe that they came here together with the Serbs during Horde’s two colonizations of Europe in early 14 or in late 15 centuries. Yet genetics say that Serbia and Macedonia are the craddle of the Slavic R1a1a happlogroup.
P.S. By the way California initially was Calif Orda i.e. Horde of the Calif …
Greece made the mistake of not raising any objections when the Yugoslav Communist Party under the recommendation of Djilas created the so called Republic of Macedonia as part of the Yugoslav Federation. The Republic of Macedonia was recognized by Milosevic in line with Yugoslav and Serbian Communist party lines. The creation of so called FYROM grew from the IMRO and its terrorist activities up and including the assassination of King Alexander I in Marseilles, France in 1934. FYROM is republic formed primarily from Bulgarian, Serbian and Greek countries. It tried to lay claim to the Hellenic Macedonian civilization which is clearly Greek based on history.
The current Serbian political leadership is still influenced by prior Communist policy on the republic of Macedonia.
Rote,
You are right,most world history is written recently and it is certainly not accurate.
More you look at history of modern Greece, more it looks artificial. Its people are mainly arvanitas/albanians, turks and serbs / bulgarians to some degree. Greece is the only country that has totally eradicated all serb toponyms. Not even communist Albania went that far.
Call me nuts, but I do believe that albos might rightfully stake a claim to history as being the natives of Europe, their language being the most ancient out there. I was totally stunned to find out that Albanian still call God Zeus in their tongue and have been trying to educate myself on the subject but it is difficult to separate the nationalism from science in Balkan history and research.
The most serious and recent research I could find on genes, language and populations is done by Cavalli-Sforza at Stanford University in California. They seem to be the authority on this matter and they place the Albanian language at the root of all European languages having appeared around 8 to 9 thousand years ago with Greek language appearing only around 4 to 5 thousand years ago.
http://tinyurl.com/ogth7v5
This is fascinating stuff.
I am familiar with the work of Fomenko, very original, but his theories have been debunked by the Russian Academy of Sciences and have not attracted any interest in the West.
http://www.ras.ru/digest/fdigestlist/bulletin.aspx
http://hbar.phys.msu.ru/gorm/fomenko/zaliznk.htm
...and the people of Russia do have influence over their government.... (Peggy, 27 July 2015 02:00)
Are you serious, or you are smoking something?
You think that Putin and his overnight self-made billionaire buddies care about ordinary Russians?
Look at their living standards and compare to the living standards in Serbia.
Serbia's living standards are far better than Russians.
While comparing the living standards of Germany, North Europe,Canada or USA, Russia is third world country.
Or Russia's living standards is better than Australia?
You read too much Russian Times.
Give it up and look the reality.
I wrote 3-4 answers to your question and then deleted them all.
It's a great question.
I think everyone here should try and answer it.
Truth be told, I dont know what the answer is. I wish I knew, but I don't.
Of course, the only word that comes to mind is: "compromise" (but even that word is "loaded" it seems)
Ps: There is a good degree of truth in your statement (about Serbs not sharing). But in all fairness to Serbs, there is also another side to your statement (it's nit so black and white in my opinion). But, I think you will agree, that its difficult to discuss nuances like that in this method. It can sometimes be a very antagonistic audience here!
1/ My comments about history are my tribute to peace on Balkans as they unite Serbs and Shqiptaret more than anything else. Yet there are always 20-30% of those who agree with me and it surprises me more than the nihilist crowd. It means that there always are some folks who are not zombied and still can afford thinking. History was deformed almost in every detail so one has to read it with the mentality of a detective. . … https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbQMplPvA7k&list=PLPGFd35aflj2VleTUswq9sB6TLdwWFDE0&index=2 … Many outstanding western scientists also questioned the history of the mankind developed only in 17 century.
2/ In my comment I got much less approval than Mladko though the main idea of mine was to thank him for the link of the film about the true history of Greece. And it was a Greek film but only because “rote” liked it you gave me your “poor comments”.
3/ Maybe the problem is that I gave a link of an alternative look at the history? … http://www.chronologia.org/en/how_it_was/index.html … But none of you had time to even look though the version. They wrote 24 good books and shoot 24 good films. First read at least one chapter and then say what is wrong. The most outstanding Russian mathematician for 42 years develops the idea with millions of supporters behind him.
4/ Fomenko/Nosovsky are not the only ones doubting the legal history. There are other schools that sometimes link them and sometimes not.
Russia has a population who are very close to Serbs and the people of Russia do have influence over their government. Americans don't give a damn about you so as soon as their interests chance you have no support from them or anyone else they pressured in supporting you. You can only wish you had a big brother in your corner but all you have is a user.
(Peggy, 27 July 2015 02:00)
Peggy I have been to Russia many many times and I tell you majority of population has no clue what Serbia does or even is outside of ability to point in map. When did Russian people have to do anything with what Russian government does by the way? If you believe that I am selling a bridge i would like to sell you.
Where do you think we are going to if anyone is gone you are living far far away in Australia!!!
(Peggy, 27 July 2015 02:00)
Peggy you are a riot, you look down on Albanians and think you are somehow superior. Maybe your post would have bothered me if I were Albanian and took it to heart. I doubt they do coming from you.
But you see I am American plain and simple, I know about the Russians landing at the airport in Pristina to show force, I also know they had to pull out and showed their lack of force. I know that Putin withdrew Russian soldiers out of Kfor, and left it to NATO to secure the land. I know that for the sake of Serbia they opposed EULEX replacing UNMIK, all the while Serbia saying EULEX, never! And as Eulex was unpacking their supplies in Kosovo and the last of UNMIK were holding plane tickets home, Russia and Serbia about faced and said Welcome Eulex in another face saving attempt. I know that Russia says it opposes Kosovo recognition but have not seen any activity trying to persuade any of the 100+ countries who do, not to.
As the cold war resurfaces and the anti-Russia sentiment and distrust in the US is surging, that the US is not going to reverse course and try and buddy with Serbia over Kosovo.
I know that if you want to look down your nose at me, you need to bring a really tall step ladder. I put you in the same class as a street beggar, only worse as some of them still have morals.
As a ks albo very little i care if or when greece recognise ks as independent. Important? Yes but only symbolic!!
Some greek business have come to invest in pristina... this is good... independence recognition wont increase that..
Russia (Serbias biggest ally) does not recognize more due to the spat with the west and the embarrassment of events in 1999 than allegiance with Serbia.
So the bottom line is very few countries that do not recognize are really doing so out of any kind of support for Serbia.
(a New day, 25 July 2015 15:01)
===========================
It really makes me laugh when Albanians know why Russia will do or won't do something in Serbia's favour. How do you know why Russia has done anything? You are only hoping that they don't care about Serbia becaue frankly nobody cares about you. Do you really think that anyone apart from Albania has recognized you because they care? Really?
We can count on one country to be always in our corner but you can't say the same. The moment US interests change you're gone. Yes, Russia has interests too but Russia has a population who are very close to Serbs and the people of Russia do have influence over their government. Americans don't give a damn about you so as soon as their interests chance you have no support from them or anyone else they pressured in supporting you. You can only wish you had a big brother in your corner but all you have is a user.
When R. Serbia was ‘bombed’ for to protect the innocent mountain thugs in uniforms, it was bombed by, NATO.
Athen’s position during the period was the tarmac for the bombers. As it was Italy and Cyprus. What a hypocrisy..
(Daniel, 25 July 2015 11:48)
==========================
I belive it was only Italy because Greece refused to allow their base to be used.
I'm curious to know which side will take Serbia if FYROM goes to war with Greece. Just saying....
(albo devil, 25 July 2015 15
=========================
First of all FYROM will not go to war with Greece and if by some strange insanity FYROM did indeed provoke a war with Greece, Greece won't need any help from anyone to crush them.
It must be the worst time to hurt the Greeks but the film is relly good and it’s one of the things that I try to explain here. But people are strange so when something doesn’t match their own vision they think that someone else is mistaken. I love the Greeks but they have little to do to the history that they have been granted. Because someone else had been robbed for it. Scaliger/Petavius as well as the Franciscans with the Dominicans who wrote the current history in the 17-18 centuries never cared the Greeks. But they needed a foundation of the fake Roman history. Because before 17 century there was only one state in the world – the Golden Horde and hence newly born Germany, Sweden, England, France ect. needed a foundation for their private histories. Such was the history “Rome” while the Greek history was only supplementary to the Roman. This is why it was filled with artefacts so late. They exposed Ottoman castles and mosques as ancient Greek ones. Some of them even have no foundation and they stand on 19 century concrete plates while minarets and hoses by their side were all destroyed. Also it was a great business because Troy gold always cost more than common gold.
See --- http://www.chronologia.org/en/how_it_was/index.html
Serbian --- http://www.chronologia.org/sb/index.html
New Day
C*unt of Kosova
I recommend --- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M99ze151HvA
If you want further proof of kosovo being pandora's box look at how some of the US's biggest allies oppose kosovo recognition like isreal, ukraine, georgia, spain, mexico
(Aleks, 24 July 2015 20:16)
Australia is one of the US's biggest allies. It's recognition of Kosova was almost instant. 2 days after Kosovo declared Independence.
Canada and Australia, along with 30 other countries, responded to a United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) request to provide asylum for 750,000 refugees in Macedonian refugee camps
The mind boggles at how it is that such a state could allow it's military to expel 750,000 people, women, children and the elderly and leave them to fend for themselves in the wilderness and neighboring countries.
The moral of the story is that if a state doesn't cater to it's own people and creates a humanitarian crisis for other states to pick up the burden. Then ultimately this humanitarian expense has its payback.
Sorry, I don't see it.
(Questioner, 25 July 2015 11:43)
Serbian propaganda, for sure in kosova is way better and more democratic, if you talk about islanics, lets count it, is it kosova more Islamic or Serbia more Slavic orthodxic... what bothers you for kosova to be Islamic, we don't care about you what you are and what you practice, as for corruption and criminals state, ask you self how your politisians run the Serbia for more then 25 years, are you dictators,comunist country, or what
To be honest, the fact that we have disagreements is because of bullshit media! Media separated us from respecting each other and living in peace. Athens should shut the hell up and recognize Kosovo! Serbia should recognize Kosovo because is a critical time to do it. God bless Balkans and human beings everywhere!!!
"Sorry, I don't see it." I tell you what else you don't see, burning villages, people in tents in Macedonia and journalists expelled as they were when the heavenly people ruled roost. Now, maybe you like to see those things, who knows, but I don't, hence why, however bad Kosovo today is, it is infinitely better than what it was, this is what you have to get your head round
After reading all your comments and for your information my country recognizes Kosovo's sovereignty despite a possible and lingering separatist movement in the neighbouring province of Quebec (only an hour or more drive from my birthplace/former hometown which is the northern New Brunswick city of Bathurst.)
If you want further proof of kosovo being pandora's box look at how some of the US's biggest allies oppose kosovo recognition like isreal, ukraine, georgia, spain, mexico
(Aleks, 24 July 2015 20:16)
Aleks,
You really should learn something about world politics before making a fool of yourself. The five countries you listed are, in fact, allies of the US, but are far from being the US's biggest allies. Any informed person would know that the England, Germany, France and Japan are among the top four. Other great allies of the US are Italy and the rest of Western Europe as well as Israel, Australia and Canada. I really didn't think I'd have to engage in a lesson in elementary world politics for the uneducated, but unfortunately B92 has no basic requirements. Putin would spank you if he thought you included Ukraine and Georgia among the allies of the US, although in fact, they are. Furthermore, expect Greece to, very soon, recognize Kosova. Now then, you may go back to your computer to play war games, but not till you learn to spell "isreal" (your spelling) correctly.
Many who have not recognized K have chosen to not do so because it would open a Pandora's box in their own country.
Or are you saying that they are not recognizing K because they love Serbs :))
(factman, 24 July 2015 17:45)
What you say is true, when you analyze the reason for countries not recognizing Kosovo, you have some that do not because of their own issues of separatist movements, eventhough the history is not the same and most do not view the situation as foreigners occupying THEIR land as Serbs do.
Russia (Serbias biggest ally) does not recognize more due to the spat with the west and the embarrassment of events in 1999 than allegiance with Serbia.
Majority of other countries not recognizing is due to Russian alliance.
Then there are those who do not really consider it an important issue and are battling their own issues. Some are subject to regime changes and this is an insignificant factor (lets face it how many countries outside of Europe really have a reason to really care)
So the bottom line is very few countries that do not recognize are really doing so out of any kind of support for Serbia.
Кога Р. Србија беше бомбардирана, беше бомбардирано од? НАТО. Грчката позиција во тој период беше база за бомбашите, како што беше Италија и Ќипар.
Какво лицемерие и хипокритичност…
When R. Serbia was ‘bombed’ for to protect the innocent mountain thugs in uniforms, it was bombed by, NATO.
Athen’s position during the period was the tarmac for the bombers. As it was Italy and Cyprus. What a hypocrisy..
"If you knew more about Cyprus, you would know that no matter which ways Kosovo goes, it will have zero impact on Cyprus. (By the way, have you been following the recent developments there?)"
(illy, 24 July 2015 17:01)
It's not about what happens to Cyprus, but about bot recognizing self proclaimed republics by ethnic minorities. That's the main reason why the 5 EU members didn't recognize Kosovo, Greece amongst them.
"We need stability in the Balkans and that comes with compromises."
(illy, 24 July 2015 17:01)
Correct, compromises. But where is the 'compromise' with an independent Kosovo where ethnic minorities (not only Serbs, but Roma, too) are severely discriminated, threatened and harassed in daily life?
"If recognizing Kosovo, will make the region better, then Greece WILL recognize Kosovo."
(illy, 24 July 2015 17:01)
Kosovo is already recognized by many countries, but I don't see anything that made the region better. Now you have one more corrupt mafia state, a new European drug hub, a new source for Islamists, and even the proud 'Kosovarians' flee from their new 'country', invade the EU and are one of the biggest groups applying for asylum, abusing the system and making the situation worse for real asylum seekers, like people from Syria who flee from war and Islamic terrorism and not from self-chosen and again and again self-elected economic misery like Kosovo Albanians do. So, tell me, what is 'better' now? Sorry, I don't see it.
Greece should follow its national interest when it exercizes foreign policy. Western ballkans stability is important for the region and beyond.
The name issue should be resolved, when it comes to Kosovo's recognition of independence that is obviously up to Greece but having in mind that the majority of countries have recognized Kosovo (more than 105 worldwide out of which 23 EU member states) than Greece could easily contribute in strengthening the stability in WB, in fact by not recognizing Kosovo's independence it is passively contributing to destabilization of the region because it gives nationalist a reason to believe that the Kosovo issue is not solved yet.
However, to make things easier i would just remind you that the international court of justice has ruled that declaration of independence is not a violation of any law, on the other hand Serbian Government has negotiated with the Kosovo government several agreements and it has de-facto recognized Kosovo's independence, Serbian community is part of Kosovo's independent institutions, they are happily providing all services to all communities.
Therefore, the sooner Kosovo is recognized by grece the better for everyone.
Greece should follow its national interest when it exercizes foreign policy. Western ballkans stability is important for the region and beyond.
The name issue should be resolved, when it comes to Kosovo's recognition of independence that is obviously up to Greece but having in mind that the majority of countries have recognized Kosovo (more than 105 worldwide out of which 23 EU member states) than Greece could easily contribute in strengthening the stability in WB, in fact by not recognizing Kosovo's independence it is passively contributing to destabilization of the region because it gives nationalist a reason to believe that the Kosovo issue is not solved yet.
However, to make things easier i would just remind you that the international court of justice has ruled that declaration of independence is not a violation of any law, on the other hand Serbian Government has negotiated with the Kosovo government several agreements and it has de-facto recognized Kosovo's independence, Serbian community is part of Kosovo's independent institutions, they are happily providing all services to all communities.
Therefore, the sooner Kosovo is recognized by grece the better for everyone.
Finally.... B92 posts an article that contradicts the propaganda that is spewed from this "news source"...
Wake up Serbs... everyone but the average Serbian citizen knows that Serbian politicians are Pro-West. Whatever the EU and US propose, the Serbs must implement. Here's a quote from the article.
The circles then "pointed out that in practice, Serbia has in fact sought closer relations with Kosovo, despite the public image it is creating on the home front."
Case and point.
Every politician will say "Kosova is Serbia", but what they don't say is that the crooks, Thaci and Vucic, are sleeping together.
You're camouflaged alright but most people know that albanian history in the balkans is just about 600 years old.Read some ottoman historians to find out where your ancestors came from.
Greece is getting upset,over Serbia,Kosovo,Macedonija?
Greece has the right to dispute names or recognition?
1.Greece to be expelled from european union.
2 Greece to give back the occupied Macedonian territory back to Macedonija
3 Greece to be punished for the genocide for over 100 years over Macedonians
4 Greece to give recognition and human rights for all national minorities who live in Greek territory,Serbian,Macedonian,Albanian,Jews...
Europe will benefit,Balkan will benefit problem reduced not sold.
Greece is not Serbia’s friend, they are just a bunch of hellenized Albanians and Turks. There is no way they can be our friend.
Nikos Dimou the great Greek writer gave a very interesting interview recently for the New York Times:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/24/arts/design/24abroad.html?_r=2&adxnnl=1&pagewanted=2&adxnnlx=1436047412-svOKX94RAAGA1d5aS21kpg
“It’s the fault of a German,” Mr. Dimou said about Greek pride in this cause. He was referring to Johann Winckelmann, the 18th-century German art historian whose vision of an ancient Greece “populated by beautiful, tall, blond, wise people, representing perfection,” as Mr. Dimou put it, was in a sense imposed on the country to shape modern Greek identity.
“We used to speak Albanian and call ourselves Romans, but then Winckelmann, Goethe, Victor Hugo, Delacroix, they all told us, ‘No, you are Hellenes, direct descendants of Plato and Socrates,’ and that did it. If a small, poor nation has such a burden put on its shoulders, it will never recover.”
Look at this ethnographic map of Balkans established by French Guillaume Lejean in 1861, Greece was clearly an Albanian populated province by that time.
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Balk.Ethno-1861.jpg
Watch also this video from mainstream skainews greek tv, it is a superb documentary about the history of Greece. Greece spoke mainly Albanian in the 18th century.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M99ze151HvA
Greece is getting upset,over Serbia,Kosovo,Macedonija?
Greece has the right to dispute names or recognition?
1.Greece to be expelled from european union.
2 Greece to give back the occupied Macedonian territory back to Macedonija
3 Greece to be punished for the genocide for over 100 years over Macedonians
4 Greece to give recognition and human rights for all national minorities who live in Greek territory,Serbian,Macedonian,Albanian,Jews...
Europe will benefit,Balkan will benefit problem reduced not sold.
I really do not think Greece is in any position to act like bullies in the Balkans. Serbia should stick with Macedonia, and let the Greeks be with the Albanians. I think Europe and the world is getting very tired of Greece. In time, Greece will self-destruct, it is already happening.
Good to read Greece acknowledging Serbia has become one of the leading supporters of Kosovo independence in the world. Serbia must realize its not fooling anyone and schedule a Kosovo removal from Serbias constitution referendum.
Many who have not recognized K have chosen to not do so because it would open a Pandora's box in their own country.
Or are you saying that they are not recognizing K because they love Serbs :))
(factman, 24 July 2015 17:45)
While I get the reasoning behind that logic (it's one of fear), I also think it's short sighted and even wrong. What these countries are saying or the message they are sending (whether voluntarily or not) is that they don't recognize Kosova because what they have done to their territories and all that comes with that (circumstances, politics,human right violations, constitutional violations) are equal to the acts that Kosova had to endure under Serbia. This is clearly not the case for some of these countries but they've made this parallelism themselves and all the territories have to do is spell out the message that these countries themselves have legitimized. Out of the fear of not equalizing the situationd, they've done quite the opposite. We are afraid to recognize Kosova because our territorries may have the legitimity to be independent, like Kosova. This is actually making the case for these territories and claiming they have a valid case for independence. One could still not recognize but remove themselves from the parallelism. There's room for that there. However that flies out of the window when one says not recognizing because of a principle, as it shows that the principle is the only way to keep the territories not how you treat them.
“You see 1389 Battle of Kosovo which Serbs lost and fought side by side with Albanians is celebrated as a Serb only battle and Serbs want Kosovo without Albanians in it that can not happen.”
1/ I wonder if there’s any other place on earth where 8 great battles took place as they tell us ?
2/ What makes you think that Shqiptaret and Albanians are the same people ?
3/ Do you know that words Turks, Osmans, Ottomans were first mentioned in 18 century ?
4/ What makes you think that Serbs fought against the ’turks’ in 1389 and that they lost the battle ?
5/ Because there’s no evidence that the Shqiptaret are the medieval Albanians how do you know if the Shqiptaret ever fought on Kosovo Polje or not ?
If you want further proof of kosovo being pandora's box look at how some of the US's biggest allies oppose kosovo recognition like isreal, ukraine, georgia, spain, mexico
In fact it shows that Serbs and Albanians have DNA links.
Cultural and religious affinities have a far greater resonance in the subject matter of this discussion. Additionally, a shared history of resistance to foreign Turkish occupation is the other.
(factman, 24 July 2015 14:50)
Factman,
No one is denying that DNA of Region is mixed it has to just where we are possitioned, however Serbs claim Kosovo as their heart land and state that Albanians came there which makes no sense as migration in Balkans happened North to South not south to north ( excluding Kosovo Serbs going to Vojvodina after WWI).
You are correct that this land belongs to people and being here 1200 years you belong to the region. However Serbs do not find it in them to want to share with Albanians.
You see 1389 Battle of Kosovo which Serbs lost and fought side by side with Albanians is celebrated as a Serb only battle and Serbs want Kosovo without Albanians in it that can not happen.
@illy
actually you are wrong, stabilizing/destabilizing the situation in the Balkans has nothing to do with it ... it has to do with not opening pandora's box by recognizing kosovo .. why do you think most countries don't want to recognize kosovo? they obviously don't want to fuel separatist tendencies in their territories
I think Serbia should apologize to Greece and withdraw its recognition of the Republic of Macedonia. Macedonia recognized Kosovo, and Greece didn't, so we Serbs should stand with Greece on this issue.
They've been nothing but a good friend. We shouldn't doubt devotion to not recognizing Kosovo, especially with Cyprus.
Non-recognition of Kosovo by Greece has nothing to do with Cyprus. That's simplistic Serbian propaganda. It is also offensive to Greece.
If you knew more about Cyprus, you would know that no matter which ways Kosovo goes, it will have zero impact on Cyprus. (By the way, have you been following the recent developments there?)
We need stability in the Balkans and that comes with compromises. If recognizing Kosovo, will make the region better, then Greece WILL recognize Kosovo.
Finally, Greeks are understanding that Serbs always have backstabbed them, every chance they had.
It is time for Greece to have more close ties with its neighbor Albania,than with Serbia with they don't share anything except the religion.
Hopefully Tsipras will be following Teodoros Pangalos' footsteps.
If slavs are such closely related to Albanians than why did Kosovo Serbs start trouble with them in 1989. There isn't going to be a new war over a name dispute. Bulgaria is in EU, Greece is bankrupt and Croatia and Slovenia are in NATO. Macedonia will remain independent.
" The Serbian Orthodox Church hasn't been persecuted, the Macedonian Orthodox Church exists and Serbia denies its right to exist as an independent body. It's ridiculous really because they're quarrelling over how to worship an imaginary thing in the sky. "
This statement does not stand up to scrutiny.
First of all to be clear, the people of Macedonia are Orthodox, but unfortunately they attend churches that are currently separated from Canonical Orthodoxy. It is the hope of every Orthodox that this breach be healed The Serbian Church has done everything it can to restore the faithful to communion with all the other Eastern Orthodox, going as far as granting full autonomy to the Ohrid Archbishopric. It is the intransigence and interference of The Government of Macedonia which demands recognition of a schism that is impossible for the canonical churches to recognize, and the persecution of that bishphoric by elements of the Macedonian Government has been documented internationally. I certainly do not blame the people of Macedonia for this, it is Government corruption and interference that has politicized the issue so that good people have been radicalized. The persecution that you deny is only denied by you and the Government of Macedonia, and a few loud ultranationalists.
Further to your point about the existence of God, if you don't think he exists, why insult people who do? Is this your "progressive tolerance" that forces you to scorn and condemn?
Since when we take rumors so serious ? Doesn’t Greece have a Foreign Ministry to explain all this ? What is the difference between what Rote or Rocky said here and the provocative news by some SKAI website ? They are just PRing themselves at the cost of peace on Balkans. After yesterday news about the idiotic Barbarossa Plan in Bosnia it is second time that B92 does not think of the sequences of the articles they place. I believe that every word here must be filtered not to worsen the relations in the region. Greece is almost standing on the knees and we are to support them but not to kick them. So are the Macedonians. Their choice is nothing better - either they get rid of their Slav name and bar the pipe or they will have their own Maidan and their own UCK. Same cornered are the Serbs and the Shqiptaret … How long we’ll be letting provoke us so easily ?
Interesting theory, but, this is from 5 millenia ago (5th century BC)?
Just because someone is indigenous to an area doesn't mean that they own all the land or have some superior claim to land. Or some moral rights that others don't. After all, the indigenous people also came from somewhere also? They didnt just grow from the earth.
Migration from one region to another is a common occurence in mankind. As are barbarian invasions. As are wars. As are one people growing to become stronger and more powerful than their neighbors who were there first. As is one aide "crowding" out the other side.
To follow this argument to its logical conclusion would lead to silliness. It means that one should tell Hungarians to go back to the aestern steppes. British to get out of the islands. Turks to go back to Mongolia. Americans to go back to Europe. Romanians to go back to Italy. etc
1. Serbia recognized Macedonia under its constitutional name when Serbia was the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia, ie long before Kosovo's independence. You've implied that Serbia recognized this name some time after 2008.
2. You're right here, Alexander the Great was an Ancient Greek.
3. The Slavic-Macedonian cultural-ethnic group existed long before Tito's rule, for example, the Internal Macedonian Revolutionary Organization was formed in 1893.
4. The Serbian Orthodox Church hasn't been persecuted, the Macedonian Orthodox Church exists and Serbia denies its right to exist as an independent body. It's ridiculous really because they're quarrelling over how to worship an imaginary thing in the sky.
5. Don't try to talk on the behalf of the Serb people when you're an American living on the other side of the world. Real Serbs are nothing like you.
-----------------------
I think the best proposal to end this stupid long winded naming dispute is for Skopje to adopt the name the "Republic of Vardar Macedonia". Simple!
OK, we get it, you have been living here a long, long, long time.
So What?
My ancestors came 1,200 years ago. That is about 20 lifetimes ago. To call Serbs newcomers is yet another silly thing to say.
And to infer that Greeks and Albanians have a shared blood line is also silly, to the point of being comical. Like the Da Vinci Code.
The facts are that current DNA analysis shows that all the peoples of the region share common ancestry.
In fact it shows that Serbs and Albanians have DNA links.
Cultural and religious affinities have a far greater resonance in the subject matter of this discussion. Additionally, a shared history of resistance to foreign Turkish occupation is the other.
Greece is in need of help, but don't we all go through financial crisis at some point? Serbia is insulting Greece by claiming that Greece is under pressure to recognize Kosovo. Let us assume that is the case, what has serbia done to protect herself from letting Kosovo go by? Serbia initiated the negotiation, while Dacic has the nerves to demand explanation from Greece? On top of that you have recognized Macedonia which Greece disputes.
Now you got Croatia, Bosnia, and Kosovo Albanians laughing at you. Montenegro and Macedonia did recognize Kosovo, Greece has not. Serbia, wake up you are falling behind day by day. When I say serbia I mean belgrade.
Perry, you do know that your sweetheart Sloba didn't even support greek thugs on this, don't ya. Milosevic supported a confederation, but he never said that Macedonia was a fake state that belonged to Greece. No Serbian leader has ever supported Bulgarian or Greek territorial ambitions regarding Macedonia.
If you want to have a friend, first you have to be a friend. This is something those traitors in Belgrade know nothing about.
It's time to clean house over there.
Greece is refusong recognition of Kosovo, for three reasons.
1. The primary reason Greeece will never recognize Kosovo is because they dont want anyone to recognize the Turkish occupied areas of Cyprus **
2. A secondary smaller reason is because they do not trust a greater Albanian nation on thier
borders especially when their are territorial ambitions coming from the Albanina side.
3. Historical support of Orthodox Christian brethren is the third reason, but also the smallest of the three.
** And this is why places like Spain, Romania, Slovakia, China, Russia, etc, etc, etc will never recognize Kosovo,either. If Spain recognized today, Catalonia would leave tomorrow.
Greece has every right to be irritated with Serbia's gov't over the Macedonia name issue. Greece has taken the principled stance of not recognizing the UDI in Pristina and Serbia's paid Greece back by recognizing FYROM as "Macedonia".
That's no way to treat a friend. But apart from that, Greece is actually on the right side of history in regards to Macedonia. Alexander the Great was Greek and the Slavs of FYROM created this fake identity of theirs during Tito's reign over Yugoslavia. Before that, it wouldn't have been in the right mind for these people to claim ancestry to Alexander the Great.
Meanwhile FYROM's government has persecuted the Serbian Orthodox Church and its followers since the fall of Yugoslavia. Our friend is Greece and I hope Belgrade gets it together.
To the people of Greece, I'm sorry. The Serbian people do not support the govt's actions.
Here's a little some some for the few that may be interested in the subject?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pelasgians
i know I know that many Serbs will counter with an contrary argument, this and that, with time and peace many scholars will correctly find and connect the missing links, I am sure of it!
Looks like the tide is turning against Serbia yet again! Even the Greek nation is sick and tired with all the dirty two faced Serb politics! I've stated many times that the Greek nation & Albanian nation are in fact the closest by blood of all people's in Southern Europe! Yes we've had our quarrels at times, however we have also been allies at many key points in history as well!
Serbs are only recent newcomers to the the Balkan region of Europe, just scroll back thru the pages of history, it's all there in black and white!!!
Looks like the tide is turning against Serbia yet again! Even the Greek nation is sick and tired with all the dirty two faced Serb politics! I've stated many times that the Greek nation & Albanian nation are in fact the closest by blood of all people's in Southern Europe! Yes we've had our quarrels at times, however we have also been allies at many key points in history as well!
Serbs are only recent newcomers to the the Balkan region of Europe, just scroll back thru the pages of history, it's all there in black and white!!!
Non-recognition of Kosovo by Greece has nothing to do with Cyprus. That's simplistic Serbian propaganda. It is also offensive to Greece.
If you knew more about Cyprus, you would know that no matter which ways Kosovo goes, it will have zero impact on Cyprus. (By the way, have you been following the recent developments there?)
We need stability in the Balkans and that comes with compromises. If recognizing Kosovo, will make the region better, then Greece WILL recognize Kosovo.
Finally, Greeks are understanding that Serbs always have backstabbed them, every chance they had.
It is time for Greece to have more close ties with its neighbor Albania,than with Serbia with they don't share anything except the religion.
Hopefully Tsipras will be following Teodoros Pangalos' footsteps.
Greece has every right to be irritated with Serbia's gov't over the Macedonia name issue. Greece has taken the principled stance of not recognizing the UDI in Pristina and Serbia's paid Greece back by recognizing FYROM as "Macedonia".
That's no way to treat a friend. But apart from that, Greece is actually on the right side of history in regards to Macedonia. Alexander the Great was Greek and the Slavs of FYROM created this fake identity of theirs during Tito's reign over Yugoslavia. Before that, it wouldn't have been in the right mind for these people to claim ancestry to Alexander the Great.
Meanwhile FYROM's government has persecuted the Serbian Orthodox Church and its followers since the fall of Yugoslavia. Our friend is Greece and I hope Belgrade gets it together.
To the people of Greece, I'm sorry. The Serbian people do not support the govt's actions.
Greece is in need of help, but don't we all go through financial crisis at some point? Serbia is insulting Greece by claiming that Greece is under pressure to recognize Kosovo. Let us assume that is the case, what has serbia done to protect herself from letting Kosovo go by? Serbia initiated the negotiation, while Dacic has the nerves to demand explanation from Greece? On top of that you have recognized Macedonia which Greece disputes.
Now you got Croatia, Bosnia, and Kosovo Albanians laughing at you. Montenegro and Macedonia did recognize Kosovo, Greece has not. Serbia, wake up you are falling behind day by day. When I say serbia I mean belgrade.
Greece is refusong recognition of Kosovo, for three reasons.
1. The primary reason Greeece will never recognize Kosovo is because they dont want anyone to recognize the Turkish occupied areas of Cyprus **
2. A secondary smaller reason is because they do not trust a greater Albanian nation on thier
borders especially when their are territorial ambitions coming from the Albanina side.
3. Historical support of Orthodox Christian brethren is the third reason, but also the smallest of the three.
** And this is why places like Spain, Romania, Slovakia, China, Russia, etc, etc, etc will never recognize Kosovo,either. If Spain recognized today, Catalonia would leave tomorrow.
OK, we get it, you have been living here a long, long, long time.
So What?
My ancestors came 1,200 years ago. That is about 20 lifetimes ago. To call Serbs newcomers is yet another silly thing to say.
And to infer that Greeks and Albanians have a shared blood line is also silly, to the point of being comical. Like the Da Vinci Code.
The facts are that current DNA analysis shows that all the peoples of the region share common ancestry.
In fact it shows that Serbs and Albanians have DNA links.
Cultural and religious affinities have a far greater resonance in the subject matter of this discussion. Additionally, a shared history of resistance to foreign Turkish occupation is the other.
Here's a little some some for the few that may be interested in the subject?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pelasgians
i know I know that many Serbs will counter with an contrary argument, this and that, with time and peace many scholars will correctly find and connect the missing links, I am sure of it!
If you want to have a friend, first you have to be a friend. This is something those traitors in Belgrade know nothing about.
It's time to clean house over there.
I think Serbia should apologize to Greece and withdraw its recognition of the Republic of Macedonia. Macedonia recognized Kosovo, and Greece didn't, so we Serbs should stand with Greece on this issue.
They've been nothing but a good friend. We shouldn't doubt devotion to not recognizing Kosovo, especially with Cyprus.
If you want further proof of kosovo being pandora's box look at how some of the US's biggest allies oppose kosovo recognition like isreal, ukraine, georgia, spain, mexico
Interesting theory, but, this is from 5 millenia ago (5th century BC)?
Just because someone is indigenous to an area doesn't mean that they own all the land or have some superior claim to land. Or some moral rights that others don't. After all, the indigenous people also came from somewhere also? They didnt just grow from the earth.
Migration from one region to another is a common occurence in mankind. As are barbarian invasions. As are wars. As are one people growing to become stronger and more powerful than their neighbors who were there first. As is one aide "crowding" out the other side.
To follow this argument to its logical conclusion would lead to silliness. It means that one should tell Hungarians to go back to the aestern steppes. British to get out of the islands. Turks to go back to Mongolia. Americans to go back to Europe. Romanians to go back to Italy. etc
1. Serbia recognized Macedonia under its constitutional name when Serbia was the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia, ie long before Kosovo's independence. You've implied that Serbia recognized this name some time after 2008.
2. You're right here, Alexander the Great was an Ancient Greek.
3. The Slavic-Macedonian cultural-ethnic group existed long before Tito's rule, for example, the Internal Macedonian Revolutionary Organization was formed in 1893.
4. The Serbian Orthodox Church hasn't been persecuted, the Macedonian Orthodox Church exists and Serbia denies its right to exist as an independent body. It's ridiculous really because they're quarrelling over how to worship an imaginary thing in the sky.
5. Don't try to talk on the behalf of the Serb people when you're an American living on the other side of the world. Real Serbs are nothing like you.
-----------------------
I think the best proposal to end this stupid long winded naming dispute is for Skopje to adopt the name the "Republic of Vardar Macedonia". Simple!
@illy
actually you are wrong, stabilizing/destabilizing the situation in the Balkans has nothing to do with it ... it has to do with not opening pandora's box by recognizing kosovo .. why do you think most countries don't want to recognize kosovo? they obviously don't want to fuel separatist tendencies in their territories
In fact it shows that Serbs and Albanians have DNA links.
Cultural and religious affinities have a far greater resonance in the subject matter of this discussion. Additionally, a shared history of resistance to foreign Turkish occupation is the other.
(factman, 24 July 2015 14:50)
Factman,
No one is denying that DNA of Region is mixed it has to just where we are possitioned, however Serbs claim Kosovo as their heart land and state that Albanians came there which makes no sense as migration in Balkans happened North to South not south to north ( excluding Kosovo Serbs going to Vojvodina after WWI).
You are correct that this land belongs to people and being here 1200 years you belong to the region. However Serbs do not find it in them to want to share with Albanians.
You see 1389 Battle of Kosovo which Serbs lost and fought side by side with Albanians is celebrated as a Serb only battle and Serbs want Kosovo without Albanians in it that can not happen.
If you want further proof of kosovo being pandora's box look at how some of the US's biggest allies oppose kosovo recognition like isreal, ukraine, georgia, spain, mexico
(Aleks, 24 July 2015 20:16)
Aleks,
You really should learn something about world politics before making a fool of yourself. The five countries you listed are, in fact, allies of the US, but are far from being the US's biggest allies. Any informed person would know that the England, Germany, France and Japan are among the top four. Other great allies of the US are Italy and the rest of Western Europe as well as Israel, Australia and Canada. I really didn't think I'd have to engage in a lesson in elementary world politics for the uneducated, but unfortunately B92 has no basic requirements. Putin would spank you if he thought you included Ukraine and Georgia among the allies of the US, although in fact, they are. Furthermore, expect Greece to, very soon, recognize Kosova. Now then, you may go back to your computer to play war games, but not till you learn to spell "isreal" (your spelling) correctly.
(Peggy, 27 July 2015 02:00)
Peggy you are a riot, you look down on Albanians and think you are somehow superior. Maybe your post would have bothered me if I were Albanian and took it to heart. I doubt they do coming from you.
But you see I am American plain and simple, I know about the Russians landing at the airport in Pristina to show force, I also know they had to pull out and showed their lack of force. I know that Putin withdrew Russian soldiers out of Kfor, and left it to NATO to secure the land. I know that for the sake of Serbia they opposed EULEX replacing UNMIK, all the while Serbia saying EULEX, never! And as Eulex was unpacking their supplies in Kosovo and the last of UNMIK were holding plane tickets home, Russia and Serbia about faced and said Welcome Eulex in another face saving attempt. I know that Russia says it opposes Kosovo recognition but have not seen any activity trying to persuade any of the 100+ countries who do, not to.
As the cold war resurfaces and the anti-Russia sentiment and distrust in the US is surging, that the US is not going to reverse course and try and buddy with Serbia over Kosovo.
I know that if you want to look down your nose at me, you need to bring a really tall step ladder. I put you in the same class as a street beggar, only worse as some of them still have morals.
Perry, you do know that your sweetheart Sloba didn't even support greek thugs on this, don't ya. Milosevic supported a confederation, but he never said that Macedonia was a fake state that belonged to Greece. No Serbian leader has ever supported Bulgarian or Greek territorial ambitions regarding Macedonia.
If slavs are such closely related to Albanians than why did Kosovo Serbs start trouble with them in 1989. There isn't going to be a new war over a name dispute. Bulgaria is in EU, Greece is bankrupt and Croatia and Slovenia are in NATO. Macedonia will remain independent.
" The Serbian Orthodox Church hasn't been persecuted, the Macedonian Orthodox Church exists and Serbia denies its right to exist as an independent body. It's ridiculous really because they're quarrelling over how to worship an imaginary thing in the sky. "
This statement does not stand up to scrutiny.
First of all to be clear, the people of Macedonia are Orthodox, but unfortunately they attend churches that are currently separated from Canonical Orthodoxy. It is the hope of every Orthodox that this breach be healed The Serbian Church has done everything it can to restore the faithful to communion with all the other Eastern Orthodox, going as far as granting full autonomy to the Ohrid Archbishopric. It is the intransigence and interference of The Government of Macedonia which demands recognition of a schism that is impossible for the canonical churches to recognize, and the persecution of that bishphoric by elements of the Macedonian Government has been documented internationally. I certainly do not blame the people of Macedonia for this, it is Government corruption and interference that has politicized the issue so that good people have been radicalized. The persecution that you deny is only denied by you and the Government of Macedonia, and a few loud ultranationalists.
Further to your point about the existence of God, if you don't think he exists, why insult people who do? Is this your "progressive tolerance" that forces you to scorn and condemn?
You're camouflaged alright but most people know that albanian history in the balkans is just about 600 years old.Read some ottoman historians to find out where your ancestors came from.
Finally.... B92 posts an article that contradicts the propaganda that is spewed from this "news source"...
Wake up Serbs... everyone but the average Serbian citizen knows that Serbian politicians are Pro-West. Whatever the EU and US propose, the Serbs must implement. Here's a quote from the article.
The circles then "pointed out that in practice, Serbia has in fact sought closer relations with Kosovo, despite the public image it is creating on the home front."
Case and point.
Every politician will say "Kosova is Serbia", but what they don't say is that the crooks, Thaci and Vucic, are sleeping together.
After reading all your comments and for your information my country recognizes Kosovo's sovereignty despite a possible and lingering separatist movement in the neighbouring province of Quebec (only an hour or more drive from my birthplace/former hometown which is the northern New Brunswick city of Bathurst.)
"If you knew more about Cyprus, you would know that no matter which ways Kosovo goes, it will have zero impact on Cyprus. (By the way, have you been following the recent developments there?)"
(illy, 24 July 2015 17:01)
It's not about what happens to Cyprus, but about bot recognizing self proclaimed republics by ethnic minorities. That's the main reason why the 5 EU members didn't recognize Kosovo, Greece amongst them.
"We need stability in the Balkans and that comes with compromises."
(illy, 24 July 2015 17:01)
Correct, compromises. But where is the 'compromise' with an independent Kosovo where ethnic minorities (not only Serbs, but Roma, too) are severely discriminated, threatened and harassed in daily life?
"If recognizing Kosovo, will make the region better, then Greece WILL recognize Kosovo."
(illy, 24 July 2015 17:01)
Kosovo is already recognized by many countries, but I don't see anything that made the region better. Now you have one more corrupt mafia state, a new European drug hub, a new source for Islamists, and even the proud 'Kosovarians' flee from their new 'country', invade the EU and are one of the biggest groups applying for asylum, abusing the system and making the situation worse for real asylum seekers, like people from Syria who flee from war and Islamic terrorism and not from self-chosen and again and again self-elected economic misery like Kosovo Albanians do. So, tell me, what is 'better' now? Sorry, I don't see it.
"Sorry, I don't see it." I tell you what else you don't see, burning villages, people in tents in Macedonia and journalists expelled as they were when the heavenly people ruled roost. Now, maybe you like to see those things, who knows, but I don't, hence why, however bad Kosovo today is, it is infinitely better than what it was, this is what you have to get your head round
Russia (Serbias biggest ally) does not recognize more due to the spat with the west and the embarrassment of events in 1999 than allegiance with Serbia.
So the bottom line is very few countries that do not recognize are really doing so out of any kind of support for Serbia.
(a New day, 25 July 2015 15:01)
===========================
It really makes me laugh when Albanians know why Russia will do or won't do something in Serbia's favour. How do you know why Russia has done anything? You are only hoping that they don't care about Serbia becaue frankly nobody cares about you. Do you really think that anyone apart from Albania has recognized you because they care? Really?
We can count on one country to be always in our corner but you can't say the same. The moment US interests change you're gone. Yes, Russia has interests too but Russia has a population who are very close to Serbs and the people of Russia do have influence over their government. Americans don't give a damn about you so as soon as their interests chance you have no support from them or anyone else they pressured in supporting you. You can only wish you had a big brother in your corner but all you have is a user.
To be honest, the fact that we have disagreements is because of bullshit media! Media separated us from respecting each other and living in peace. Athens should shut the hell up and recognize Kosovo! Serbia should recognize Kosovo because is a critical time to do it. God bless Balkans and human beings everywhere!!!
I'm curious to know which side will take Serbia if FYROM goes to war with Greece. Just saying....
(albo devil, 25 July 2015 15
=========================
First of all FYROM will not go to war with Greece and if by some strange insanity FYROM did indeed provoke a war with Greece, Greece won't need any help from anyone to crush them.
When R. Serbia was ‘bombed’ for to protect the innocent mountain thugs in uniforms, it was bombed by, NATO.
Athen’s position during the period was the tarmac for the bombers. As it was Italy and Cyprus. What a hypocrisy..
(Daniel, 25 July 2015 11:48)
==========================
I belive it was only Italy because Greece refused to allow their base to be used.
Greece is not Serbia’s friend, they are just a bunch of hellenized Albanians and Turks. There is no way they can be our friend.
Nikos Dimou the great Greek writer gave a very interesting interview recently for the New York Times:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/24/arts/design/24abroad.html?_r=2&adxnnl=1&pagewanted=2&adxnnlx=1436047412-svOKX94RAAGA1d5aS21kpg
“It’s the fault of a German,” Mr. Dimou said about Greek pride in this cause. He was referring to Johann Winckelmann, the 18th-century German art historian whose vision of an ancient Greece “populated by beautiful, tall, blond, wise people, representing perfection,” as Mr. Dimou put it, was in a sense imposed on the country to shape modern Greek identity.
“We used to speak Albanian and call ourselves Romans, but then Winckelmann, Goethe, Victor Hugo, Delacroix, they all told us, ‘No, you are Hellenes, direct descendants of Plato and Socrates,’ and that did it. If a small, poor nation has such a burden put on its shoulders, it will never recover.”
Look at this ethnographic map of Balkans established by French Guillaume Lejean in 1861, Greece was clearly an Albanian populated province by that time.
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Balk.Ethno-1861.jpg
Watch also this video from mainstream skainews greek tv, it is a superb documentary about the history of Greece. Greece spoke mainly Albanian in the 18th century.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M99ze151HvA
Greece is getting upset,over Serbia,Kosovo,Macedonija?
Greece has the right to dispute names or recognition?
1.Greece to be expelled from european union.
2 Greece to give back the occupied Macedonian territory back to Macedonija
3 Greece to be punished for the genocide for over 100 years over Macedonians
4 Greece to give recognition and human rights for all national minorities who live in Greek territory,Serbian,Macedonian,Albanian,Jews...
Europe will benefit,Balkan will benefit problem reduced not sold.
Greece is getting upset,over Serbia,Kosovo,Macedonija?
Greece has the right to dispute names or recognition?
1.Greece to be expelled from european union.
2 Greece to give back the occupied Macedonian territory back to Macedonija
3 Greece to be punished for the genocide for over 100 years over Macedonians
4 Greece to give recognition and human rights for all national minorities who live in Greek territory,Serbian,Macedonian,Albanian,Jews...
Europe will benefit,Balkan will benefit problem reduced not sold.
If you want further proof of kosovo being pandora's box look at how some of the US's biggest allies oppose kosovo recognition like isreal, ukraine, georgia, spain, mexico
(Aleks, 24 July 2015 20:16)
Australia is one of the US's biggest allies. It's recognition of Kosova was almost instant. 2 days after Kosovo declared Independence.
Canada and Australia, along with 30 other countries, responded to a United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) request to provide asylum for 750,000 refugees in Macedonian refugee camps
The mind boggles at how it is that such a state could allow it's military to expel 750,000 people, women, children and the elderly and leave them to fend for themselves in the wilderness and neighboring countries.
The moral of the story is that if a state doesn't cater to it's own people and creates a humanitarian crisis for other states to pick up the burden. Then ultimately this humanitarian expense has its payback.
Russia has a population who are very close to Serbs and the people of Russia do have influence over their government. Americans don't give a damn about you so as soon as their interests chance you have no support from them or anyone else they pressured in supporting you. You can only wish you had a big brother in your corner but all you have is a user.
(Peggy, 27 July 2015 02:00)
Peggy I have been to Russia many many times and I tell you majority of population has no clue what Serbia does or even is outside of ability to point in map. When did Russian people have to do anything with what Russian government does by the way? If you believe that I am selling a bridge i would like to sell you.
Where do you think we are going to if anyone is gone you are living far far away in Australia!!!
...and the people of Russia do have influence over their government.... (Peggy, 27 July 2015 02:00)
Are you serious, or you are smoking something?
You think that Putin and his overnight self-made billionaire buddies care about ordinary Russians?
Look at their living standards and compare to the living standards in Serbia.
Serbia's living standards are far better than Russians.
While comparing the living standards of Germany, North Europe,Canada or USA, Russia is third world country.
Or Russia's living standards is better than Australia?
You read too much Russian Times.
Give it up and look the reality.
I really do not think Greece is in any position to act like bullies in the Balkans. Serbia should stick with Macedonia, and let the Greeks be with the Albanians. I think Europe and the world is getting very tired of Greece. In time, Greece will self-destruct, it is already happening.
Кога Р. Србија беше бомбардирана, беше бомбардирано од? НАТО. Грчката позиција во тој период беше база за бомбашите, како што беше Италија и Ќипар.
Какво лицемерие и хипокритичност…
When R. Serbia was ‘bombed’ for to protect the innocent mountain thugs in uniforms, it was bombed by, NATO.
Athen’s position during the period was the tarmac for the bombers. As it was Italy and Cyprus. What a hypocrisy..
Sorry, I don't see it.
(Questioner, 25 July 2015 11:43)
Serbian propaganda, for sure in kosova is way better and more democratic, if you talk about islanics, lets count it, is it kosova more Islamic or Serbia more Slavic orthodxic... what bothers you for kosova to be Islamic, we don't care about you what you are and what you practice, as for corruption and criminals state, ask you self how your politisians run the Serbia for more then 25 years, are you dictators,comunist country, or what
As a ks albo very little i care if or when greece recognise ks as independent. Important? Yes but only symbolic!!
Some greek business have come to invest in pristina... this is good... independence recognition wont increase that..
Since when we take rumors so serious ? Doesn’t Greece have a Foreign Ministry to explain all this ? What is the difference between what Rote or Rocky said here and the provocative news by some SKAI website ? They are just PRing themselves at the cost of peace on Balkans. After yesterday news about the idiotic Barbarossa Plan in Bosnia it is second time that B92 does not think of the sequences of the articles they place. I believe that every word here must be filtered not to worsen the relations in the region. Greece is almost standing on the knees and we are to support them but not to kick them. So are the Macedonians. Their choice is nothing better - either they get rid of their Slav name and bar the pipe or they will have their own Maidan and their own UCK. Same cornered are the Serbs and the Shqiptaret … How long we’ll be letting provoke us so easily ?
Many who have not recognized K have chosen to not do so because it would open a Pandora's box in their own country.
Or are you saying that they are not recognizing K because they love Serbs :))
(factman, 24 July 2015 17:45)
While I get the reasoning behind that logic (it's one of fear), I also think it's short sighted and even wrong. What these countries are saying or the message they are sending (whether voluntarily or not) is that they don't recognize Kosova because what they have done to their territories and all that comes with that (circumstances, politics,human right violations, constitutional violations) are equal to the acts that Kosova had to endure under Serbia. This is clearly not the case for some of these countries but they've made this parallelism themselves and all the territories have to do is spell out the message that these countries themselves have legitimized. Out of the fear of not equalizing the situationd, they've done quite the opposite. We are afraid to recognize Kosova because our territorries may have the legitimity to be independent, like Kosova. This is actually making the case for these territories and claiming they have a valid case for independence. One could still not recognize but remove themselves from the parallelism. There's room for that there. However that flies out of the window when one says not recognizing because of a principle, as it shows that the principle is the only way to keep the territories not how you treat them.
Good to read Greece acknowledging Serbia has become one of the leading supporters of Kosovo independence in the world. Serbia must realize its not fooling anyone and schedule a Kosovo removal from Serbias constitution referendum.
Greece should follow its national interest when it exercizes foreign policy. Western ballkans stability is important for the region and beyond.
The name issue should be resolved, when it comes to Kosovo's recognition of independence that is obviously up to Greece but having in mind that the majority of countries have recognized Kosovo (more than 105 worldwide out of which 23 EU member states) than Greece could easily contribute in strengthening the stability in WB, in fact by not recognizing Kosovo's independence it is passively contributing to destabilization of the region because it gives nationalist a reason to believe that the Kosovo issue is not solved yet.
However, to make things easier i would just remind you that the international court of justice has ruled that declaration of independence is not a violation of any law, on the other hand Serbian Government has negotiated with the Kosovo government several agreements and it has de-facto recognized Kosovo's independence, Serbian community is part of Kosovo's independent institutions, they are happily providing all services to all communities.
Therefore, the sooner Kosovo is recognized by grece the better for everyone.
Greece should follow its national interest when it exercizes foreign policy. Western ballkans stability is important for the region and beyond.
The name issue should be resolved, when it comes to Kosovo's recognition of independence that is obviously up to Greece but having in mind that the majority of countries have recognized Kosovo (more than 105 worldwide out of which 23 EU member states) than Greece could easily contribute in strengthening the stability in WB, in fact by not recognizing Kosovo's independence it is passively contributing to destabilization of the region because it gives nationalist a reason to believe that the Kosovo issue is not solved yet.
However, to make things easier i would just remind you that the international court of justice has ruled that declaration of independence is not a violation of any law, on the other hand Serbian Government has negotiated with the Kosovo government several agreements and it has de-facto recognized Kosovo's independence, Serbian community is part of Kosovo's independent institutions, they are happily providing all services to all communities.
Therefore, the sooner Kosovo is recognized by grece the better for everyone.
Many who have not recognized K have chosen to not do so because it would open a Pandora's box in their own country.
Or are you saying that they are not recognizing K because they love Serbs :))
(factman, 24 July 2015 17:45)
What you say is true, when you analyze the reason for countries not recognizing Kosovo, you have some that do not because of their own issues of separatist movements, eventhough the history is not the same and most do not view the situation as foreigners occupying THEIR land as Serbs do.
Russia (Serbias biggest ally) does not recognize more due to the spat with the west and the embarrassment of events in 1999 than allegiance with Serbia.
Majority of other countries not recognizing is due to Russian alliance.
Then there are those who do not really consider it an important issue and are battling their own issues. Some are subject to regime changes and this is an insignificant factor (lets face it how many countries outside of Europe really have a reason to really care)
So the bottom line is very few countries that do not recognize are really doing so out of any kind of support for Serbia.
Rote,
You are right,most world history is written recently and it is certainly not accurate.
More you look at history of modern Greece, more it looks artificial. Its people are mainly arvanitas/albanians, turks and serbs / bulgarians to some degree. Greece is the only country that has totally eradicated all serb toponyms. Not even communist Albania went that far.
Call me nuts, but I do believe that albos might rightfully stake a claim to history as being the natives of Europe, their language being the most ancient out there. I was totally stunned to find out that Albanian still call God Zeus in their tongue and have been trying to educate myself on the subject but it is difficult to separate the nationalism from science in Balkan history and research.
The most serious and recent research I could find on genes, language and populations is done by Cavalli-Sforza at Stanford University in California. They seem to be the authority on this matter and they place the Albanian language at the root of all European languages having appeared around 8 to 9 thousand years ago with Greek language appearing only around 4 to 5 thousand years ago.
http://tinyurl.com/ogth7v5
This is fascinating stuff.
I am familiar with the work of Fomenko, very original, but his theories have been debunked by the Russian Academy of Sciences and have not attracted any interest in the West.
http://www.ras.ru/digest/fdigestlist/bulletin.aspx
http://hbar.phys.msu.ru/gorm/fomenko/zaliznk.htm
Greece made the mistake of not raising any objections when the Yugoslav Communist Party under the recommendation of Djilas created the so called Republic of Macedonia as part of the Yugoslav Federation. The Republic of Macedonia was recognized by Milosevic in line with Yugoslav and Serbian Communist party lines. The creation of so called FYROM grew from the IMRO and its terrorist activities up and including the assassination of King Alexander I in Marseilles, France in 1934. FYROM is republic formed primarily from Bulgarian, Serbian and Greek countries. It tried to lay claim to the Hellenic Macedonian civilization which is clearly Greek based on history.
The current Serbian political leadership is still influenced by prior Communist policy on the republic of Macedonia.
@rote
Newton was a good physician, what makes you think he was a good historian?
Being famous in physics, he tried to be expert on many things in his lifetime, he also tried to give financial advice where he failed miserably by losing his fortune in the south sea bubble, not to mentions his beliefs in the bible, alchemy etc.
Using the fallacy of authority to prove a point does not make it more valid.
Do you really believe that if there was an ounce of truth on Fomenko's rambling it would go unnoticed by the scientific community in the Western world. I get it, we might be manipulated by our government, but do you think all universities and research institutions of science will be silenced into believing a lie?
Fomenko has an audience near russians dreaming for the big slav empire, no sensible person would take him seriously.
I wrote 3-4 answers to your question and then deleted them all.
It's a great question.
I think everyone here should try and answer it.
Truth be told, I dont know what the answer is. I wish I knew, but I don't.
Of course, the only word that comes to mind is: "compromise" (but even that word is "loaded" it seems)
Ps: There is a good degree of truth in your statement (about Serbs not sharing). But in all fairness to Serbs, there is also another side to your statement (it's nit so black and white in my opinion). But, I think you will agree, that its difficult to discuss nuances like that in this method. It can sometimes be a very antagonistic audience here!
“You see 1389 Battle of Kosovo which Serbs lost and fought side by side with Albanians is celebrated as a Serb only battle and Serbs want Kosovo without Albanians in it that can not happen.”
1/ I wonder if there’s any other place on earth where 8 great battles took place as they tell us ?
2/ What makes you think that Shqiptaret and Albanians are the same people ?
3/ Do you know that words Turks, Osmans, Ottomans were first mentioned in 18 century ?
4/ What makes you think that Serbs fought against the ’turks’ in 1389 and that they lost the battle ?
5/ Because there’s no evidence that the Shqiptaret are the medieval Albanians how do you know if the Shqiptaret ever fought on Kosovo Polje or not ?
@ rote
5/ Because there’s no evidence that the Shqiptaret are the medieval Albanians
* Albania name - derive from the ilyrian tribe of Albani or Albanoi.
* In Gheg dialect (Gjergj Kastrioti Skanderbeg dialect ) - Shqipe - mean eagle, while in Tosk dialect is : Shqiponj
"Shqipe" + "rri" - means "eagles + stay" in Albanian if you check one by one the words.
And like a phrase in Albanian means: "where the eagles stand "
And "Shqiperi" - means the land of the eagles in Albanian
The symbol of Kastrioti family was the black "two-head eagle", the flag of Gjergj Kastrioti Skanderbeg was the red flag with the black "two-head eagle".
Albania have the same flag till today.
Sorry i have not too much time to explain it in detail.
Just we call ourselves "Shqiptar" which means in our language "the eagles" all our neighbors and all the world call us Albanians.
Is the same even for the Greeks - nobody know Ellada or Hellenica - because just Greeks call themselves like this.
(rote, 28 July 2015 19:01)
Two things have come to mind:
1.You have an enormous amount of time on your hands and from the number of posts occurring at all times of the day and the extensiveness of them ( hard to believe the moderators are making you stick to the 1500 character rule) you have become obsessed with this website and spend the equivalent of a full time job here. So I think you are either recently retired, incarcerated in a place that allows you unlimited computer access, or physically incapacitated to where you have no other outlet.
2. You are definitely a legend in your own mind! The way you think that you somehow put people in their place like this is some cyber video game and you are discharging words like weapons, means you have serious psychological issues. The one thing you need to know is if someone thinks you are an idiot, then you go on your rant and mix Russian and English and post thousands of links, at the end of the day that person is still going to say "idiot"
I find myself seeing a lengthy post and I immediately skim to the end to see if it is you and then I decide whether I want to waste my time reading it or not, and more and more frequently it is becoming no as life is too short to waste. Maybe if I were some psychologist doing research and there might be a payoff at the end but just for something to do no way.
Peggy I have been to Russia many many times and I tell you majority of population has no clue what Serbia does or even is outside of ability to point in map. When did Russian people have to do anything with what Russian government does by the way? If you believe that I am selling a bridge i would like to sell you.
Where do you think we are going to if anyone is gone you are living far far away in Australia!!!
(Soft Spoken, 27 July 2015 14:37
=====================================
Maybe you should go to Russia a few more times and ask the average Russian how they feel about Serbs. On your previous trips you must've stumbled on tourists in Russia.
Russian people have as much influence on their government as anyone else. Actually, the Yanks have a lot less influence but they think they have more. If you compare Putin to Obama right now I think that Putin is a much better president. At least he loves Russia, unlike Obama who seems to have a dislike to the US. Have you paid attention to that man lately? Talk about standard of living, well the US has nothing to be proud of. A whole city going bankrupt and homelessness is a real problem. Just becaue the media wants to bury their head in the sand doesn't mean you don't have a real problem with poverty and you point at Russia! Can an average Anmerican do anything to change the situation? Can they stop the government from attacking the world?
It must be the worst time to hurt the Greeks but the film is relly good and it’s one of the things that I try to explain here. But people are strange so when something doesn’t match their own vision they think that someone else is mistaken. I love the Greeks but they have little to do to the history that they have been granted. Because someone else had been robbed for it. Scaliger/Petavius as well as the Franciscans with the Dominicans who wrote the current history in the 17-18 centuries never cared the Greeks. But they needed a foundation of the fake Roman history. Because before 17 century there was only one state in the world – the Golden Horde and hence newly born Germany, Sweden, England, France ect. needed a foundation for their private histories. Such was the history “Rome” while the Greek history was only supplementary to the Roman. This is why it was filled with artefacts so late. They exposed Ottoman castles and mosques as ancient Greek ones. Some of them even have no foundation and they stand on 19 century concrete plates while minarets and hoses by their side were all destroyed. Also it was a great business because Troy gold always cost more than common gold.
See --- http://www.chronologia.org/en/how_it_was/index.html
Serbian --- http://www.chronologia.org/sb/index.html
New Day
C*unt of Kosova
I recommend --- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M99ze151HvA
Some of your arguments I cannot estimate, some I disagree but I gave you my LIKE because you are the first one who at least tries to explain things. All the rest just give their POOR COMMENTS without any explanation. Joni you have to know that for me explanation is when you tell an ancient or medieval document or artefact with proven reliability. From this point by mentioning the Illyrians you make a strategic mistake as it proves nothing but it arises a new question if you had anything to do with the Illyrians. So now you have two things to prove. And it’s not only the problem of the Sqiptaret but most of the people in the region. I mean the Greeks, Macedonians, Kurds, Serbs, Armenians, Turks, Persians, Arabs, Arameans, Jews, Romanians, Russians ect. Last week I investigated one problem : if two Russian generals and one American were 3 men or 2 or 1 ? Two Russians were of Armenian origin so sooner or later I came to reading about the Armenian rulers and dynasties. I was shocked to find dozens of them in all the countries around. Try to find Асадов Юрий Андреевич : Родословные тайны армянских князей in English. So it’s a big question whom we call the Armenians. Same with most of the peoples who call themselves different. I believe that Albanians (the whites) were the people of the White Horde (the main Horde)who seized the world in 15-16 centuries. It mustn't harm you as Shqiptaret is a good and seems that the real name of yours.
@rote,
I thought I was nuts but you are totally crazy, follow the links I sent you if you can read Russian, Fomenko theories are pseudo science, if it entertains you, that is fine, but otherwise don't waste your time with it. Da Vinci Code is way more fun. I am sure Pyramids of Egypt were built 300 years ago by the Horde, get a grip dude, you start sounding that nationalist Albos that believe they are the belly button of the world.
@jony
Yes, it is fascinating that Albanians call God Zeus in their tongue, no other people does that, not even the greeks. There are many other ancient gods that make more sense in albanian that have no valid explanation in greek yet are part of greek mythology, I found a lot of research done by german scholars in the 18th century in the subject. Given the studies of Cavalli-Sforza placing the albanian way before the greek in the language tree, one could speculate that the incoming greeks borrowed most of the gods from native albanians living in the peninsula.
Now when you look at the albanians, they do have some traits of native peoples, no real allegiance to any religion other than immediate economic interests, stubborn, not very developed, no written language history. They look similar to the native peoples in North America to me.
1/ My comments about history are my tribute to peace on Balkans as they unite Serbs and Shqiptaret more than anything else. Yet there are always 20-30% of those who agree with me and it surprises me more than the nihilist crowd. It means that there always are some folks who are not zombied and still can afford thinking. History was deformed almost in every detail so one has to read it with the mentality of a detective. . … https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbQMplPvA7k&list=PLPGFd35aflj2VleTUswq9sB6TLdwWFDE0&index=2 … Many outstanding western scientists also questioned the history of the mankind developed only in 17 century.
2/ In my comment I got much less approval than Mladko though the main idea of mine was to thank him for the link of the film about the true history of Greece. And it was a Greek film but only because “rote” liked it you gave me your “poor comments”.
3/ Maybe the problem is that I gave a link of an alternative look at the history? … http://www.chronologia.org/en/how_it_was/index.html … But none of you had time to even look though the version. They wrote 24 good books and shoot 24 good films. First read at least one chapter and then say what is wrong. The most outstanding Russian mathematician for 42 years develops the idea with millions of supporters behind him.
4/ Fomenko/Nosovsky are not the only ones doubting the legal history. There are other schools that sometimes link them and sometimes not.
"Shqiperi" - means the land of the eagles … The symbol of Kastrioti family was the black "two-head eagle", the flag of Gjergj Kastrioti … all our neighbors and all the world call us Albanians.”
But Skanderbeg everything else looks OK. The eagle you is the family symbol of the Christ’s family (the Komnins) … https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Komnenos-Isaac-Arms.svg. … It also remained on the Russian and Serbian flags while in the rest of Europe the eastern heads of the eagles were cut off in 17-18 centuries. But because the Shqiptaret and the Serbs remained in the Ottoman Empire they managed to save their old Hordic symbols. And of course it’s your business how to call yourself because it’s your real mane. But you say that all the rest call you Albanians. So what ? All the rest call other names many peoples like the Armenians, Georgians, Germans, Ossetians, Cherkess ect. Say Ossetians call themselves “Iron” and it sounds exactly as Iran (Iron) in Persian. So is their language close to Iranian and Kurdish. Kurds are called “halk-e Kurd” (Kurd people) while their old name was “halk-e Horde” (Horde people). Everybody could be a Kurd – Shiptaret, Russians, Serbs, Bulgarians ect. as it didn’t mean nation or language they spoke. That’s why happlogroups and languages of the Kurds in 4 countries differ so much. Thus the only thing I disagree is Skanderbeg and I’ve already explained twice why he could merely be of you.
@rote
sorry dude, I didn't call you crazy to offend, rather to say how out of the ordinary your ideas were.
I have no time for reading all Fomenko's rubbish but his theory is total nonsense, I know it is wikipedia but it gives you a good summary of the issue in the link below it.
Sorry,I am not buying it, it is good material for conspiracy theorists though.
“I was totally stunned to find out that Albanian still call God Zeus in their tongue”
I can tell you where all those “Greek” gods appeared. We have them on some of the oldest churches of ours ! Including the famous Uspensky Sobor in Vladimir built by Aristotel Fyorovanti himself. … https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dormition_Cathedral,_Vladimir … After the Romanovs seized power they destroyed all such bas-reliefs but some remained. On the upper side of the walls here you will find Jesus and all his relatives from the ruing Horde family of the Rurik/Komnins who wrote all those fairy tales about the Olympic Gods ect. It lasted till 1370 when Great Khan Dmitry Donskoy refused from their family (royal) Christianity. Their logic was simple as Jesus is one of us we too are Gods … Dmitry I put an end to it and introduced the Apostolic Christianity where all people became equal nder the Lord. He baptised the country but he had to fight for it until he was killed on Kosovo Polje as Murad I. So Zeus and the smaller gods were all invented in Russia but in 17-18 centuries they all were granted to the Greeks. I have no hatred for the Sqiptaret and I believe that they came here together with the Serbs during Horde’s two colonizations of Europe in early 14 or in late 15 centuries. Yet genetics say that Serbia and Macedonia are the craddle of the Slavic R1a1a happlogroup.
P.S. By the way California initially was Calif Orda i.e. Horde of the Calif …
Many will tell you here that when I start to call names life becomes a grey. So next time you open your mouth think twice and best if you read something before. Yesterday it took me more than an hour to read the links you gave. Linguistic critics of Zalizniak have some reasons but he takes only few of the thousands evidence that ATF offers. I also doubted this part of ATF&Co theory because they translate everything only from Russian. Meanwhile we all know that he Horde was a multinational force although led by the Slavs. Say we have geographic places translated from other Horde languages like Cabarda in Spain or London. In such cases they declare the Goth-Alanians or Sarmatians of as Slavs … Yes their R1b happlogroup is a sister to the Russian R1a1a but if so then the Iranians, Panjabi, Pashtuns, Hindu, Kirgiz, Kurd, Bengali and Belujistan people are also Slavs … So I do not automatically accept their new chronology. And also they repeat it many times that many of the things are their hypothesis. But there are things that they insist on and then they are very persuasive. Below I give a link of “A Short Chronicle from the First Memory of Things in Europe, to the Conquest of Persia by Alexander the Great” by Isaak Newton. Later if you behave I’ll supply you with a link of Robert Newton from NASA about the astronomical chronology.
"I have no time for reading all Fomenko's rubbish"
The link was not of Fomenko but of Isaak Newton who 280 years before Fomenko wrote similar things. He feared to publish the book so it was edited only after his death.
I have plenty of time every summer but you’re right sometimes I too think I am an idiot knocking on your closed doors. Serbs are happy to kill the Russian Great Kniaz Dmitry I on Kosovo Field while you believe that someone with Slav parents, Slav wife and Slav names of all his 9 children could be national hero of the Shqiptaret. A couple of days ago I wrote it here that monasteries were initially established to home the retired Horde soldiers. Yesterday I checked it once again reading about the most known Russina monks. Those were Peresvet and Osliablia. They took part in the greatest Kulikovo Battle and Peresvet was the one who fought the mightiest “Tatar” warrior Kochubei. Isn’t it strange that the Russians moved forward a monk ? It isn’ if you know who were the monks then. Both were Boyars ( i.e. professional warriors ) before they became monks. One could not inherit the title as it was awarded for personal achievements. So the monks were professional warriors. But today it looks as strange as my statement about the monasteries. In late 16 century Joseph Scaliger gave approximate place where Israel, Palestine and Judea could be and it proved to be a small spot in the dead desert where Europeans got first access only 220 years later. Go to Wiki and see what happened in Jerusalem between 1500 and 1900. They give zero info about the period because the city was built only in early 19 century. Ect.
Why do you waste your time for me ? Why not read Fomenko fist ? Start with his 24 films of the new chronology with English subtitles. They are very persuasive and it will drive you crazy. When you calm down start to read his reconstruction of history. …. http://www.chronologia.org/en/how_it_was/index.html ... If it not kills you start reading his 24 books. Then we’ll have something to discuss. Reading Wikipedia about Fomenko is same as asking the Croats or Albanians about the Serbs or the opposite. Don’t be naive about the West it was them who stole our history so Fomenko is the mortal enemy of theirs.
Greece has every right to be irritated with Serbia's gov't over the Macedonia name issue. Greece has taken the principled stance of not recognizing the UDI in Pristina and Serbia's paid Greece back by recognizing FYROM as "Macedonia".
That's no way to treat a friend. But apart from that, Greece is actually on the right side of history in regards to Macedonia. Alexander the Great was Greek and the Slavs of FYROM created this fake identity of theirs during Tito's reign over Yugoslavia. Before that, it wouldn't have been in the right mind for these people to claim ancestry to Alexander the Great.
Meanwhile FYROM's government has persecuted the Serbian Orthodox Church and its followers since the fall of Yugoslavia. Our friend is Greece and I hope Belgrade gets it together.
To the people of Greece, I'm sorry. The Serbian people do not support the govt's actions.
Looks like the tide is turning against Serbia yet again! Even the Greek nation is sick and tired with all the dirty two faced Serb politics! I've stated many times that the Greek nation & Albanian nation are in fact the closest by blood of all people's in Southern Europe! Yes we've had our quarrels at times, however we have also been allies at many key points in history as well!
Serbs are only recent newcomers to the the Balkan region of Europe, just scroll back thru the pages of history, it's all there in black and white!!!
Finally, Greeks are understanding that Serbs always have backstabbed them, every chance they had.
It is time for Greece to have more close ties with its neighbor Albania,than with Serbia with they don't share anything except the religion.
Hopefully Tsipras will be following Teodoros Pangalos' footsteps.
I think Serbia should apologize to Greece and withdraw its recognition of the Republic of Macedonia. Macedonia recognized Kosovo, and Greece didn't, so we Serbs should stand with Greece on this issue.
They've been nothing but a good friend. We shouldn't doubt devotion to not recognizing Kosovo, especially with Cyprus.
Here's a little some some for the few that may be interested in the subject?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pelasgians
i know I know that many Serbs will counter with an contrary argument, this and that, with time and peace many scholars will correctly find and connect the missing links, I am sure of it!
It must be the worst time to hurt the Greeks but the film is relly good and it’s one of the things that I try to explain here. But people are strange so when something doesn’t match their own vision they think that someone else is mistaken. I love the Greeks but they have little to do to the history that they have been granted. Because someone else had been robbed for it. Scaliger/Petavius as well as the Franciscans with the Dominicans who wrote the current history in the 17-18 centuries never cared the Greeks. But they needed a foundation of the fake Roman history. Because before 17 century there was only one state in the world – the Golden Horde and hence newly born Germany, Sweden, England, France ect. needed a foundation for their private histories. Such was the history “Rome” while the Greek history was only supplementary to the Roman. This is why it was filled with artefacts so late. They exposed Ottoman castles and mosques as ancient Greek ones. Some of them even have no foundation and they stand on 19 century concrete plates while minarets and hoses by their side were all destroyed. Also it was a great business because Troy gold always cost more than common gold.
See --- http://www.chronologia.org/en/how_it_was/index.html
Serbian --- http://www.chronologia.org/sb/index.html
New Day
C*unt of Kosova
I recommend --- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M99ze151HvA
If you want further proof of kosovo being pandora's box look at how some of the US's biggest allies oppose kosovo recognition like isreal, ukraine, georgia, spain, mexico
" The Serbian Orthodox Church hasn't been persecuted, the Macedonian Orthodox Church exists and Serbia denies its right to exist as an independent body. It's ridiculous really because they're quarrelling over how to worship an imaginary thing in the sky. "
This statement does not stand up to scrutiny.
First of all to be clear, the people of Macedonia are Orthodox, but unfortunately they attend churches that are currently separated from Canonical Orthodoxy. It is the hope of every Orthodox that this breach be healed The Serbian Church has done everything it can to restore the faithful to communion with all the other Eastern Orthodox, going as far as granting full autonomy to the Ohrid Archbishopric. It is the intransigence and interference of The Government of Macedonia which demands recognition of a schism that is impossible for the canonical churches to recognize, and the persecution of that bishphoric by elements of the Macedonian Government has been documented internationally. I certainly do not blame the people of Macedonia for this, it is Government corruption and interference that has politicized the issue so that good people have been radicalized. The persecution that you deny is only denied by you and the Government of Macedonia, and a few loud ultranationalists.
Further to your point about the existence of God, if you don't think he exists, why insult people who do? Is this your "progressive tolerance" that forces you to scorn and condemn?
Russia (Serbias biggest ally) does not recognize more due to the spat with the west and the embarrassment of events in 1999 than allegiance with Serbia.
So the bottom line is very few countries that do not recognize are really doing so out of any kind of support for Serbia.
(a New day, 25 July 2015 15:01)
===========================
It really makes me laugh when Albanians know why Russia will do or won't do something in Serbia's favour. How do you know why Russia has done anything? You are only hoping that they don't care about Serbia becaue frankly nobody cares about you. Do you really think that anyone apart from Albania has recognized you because they care? Really?
We can count on one country to be always in our corner but you can't say the same. The moment US interests change you're gone. Yes, Russia has interests too but Russia has a population who are very close to Serbs and the people of Russia do have influence over their government. Americans don't give a damn about you so as soon as their interests chance you have no support from them or anyone else they pressured in supporting you. You can only wish you had a big brother in your corner but all you have is a user.
“You see 1389 Battle of Kosovo which Serbs lost and fought side by side with Albanians is celebrated as a Serb only battle and Serbs want Kosovo without Albanians in it that can not happen.”
1/ I wonder if there’s any other place on earth where 8 great battles took place as they tell us ?
2/ What makes you think that Shqiptaret and Albanians are the same people ?
3/ Do you know that words Turks, Osmans, Ottomans were first mentioned in 18 century ?
4/ What makes you think that Serbs fought against the ’turks’ in 1389 and that they lost the battle ?
5/ Because there’s no evidence that the Shqiptaret are the medieval Albanians how do you know if the Shqiptaret ever fought on Kosovo Polje or not ?
If you want to have a friend, first you have to be a friend. This is something those traitors in Belgrade know nothing about.
It's time to clean house over there.
1. Serbia recognized Macedonia under its constitutional name when Serbia was the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia, ie long before Kosovo's independence. You've implied that Serbia recognized this name some time after 2008.
2. You're right here, Alexander the Great was an Ancient Greek.
3. The Slavic-Macedonian cultural-ethnic group existed long before Tito's rule, for example, the Internal Macedonian Revolutionary Organization was formed in 1893.
4. The Serbian Orthodox Church hasn't been persecuted, the Macedonian Orthodox Church exists and Serbia denies its right to exist as an independent body. It's ridiculous really because they're quarrelling over how to worship an imaginary thing in the sky.
5. Don't try to talk on the behalf of the Serb people when you're an American living on the other side of the world. Real Serbs are nothing like you.
-----------------------
I think the best proposal to end this stupid long winded naming dispute is for Skopje to adopt the name the "Republic of Vardar Macedonia". Simple!
Greece is refusong recognition of Kosovo, for three reasons.
1. The primary reason Greeece will never recognize Kosovo is because they dont want anyone to recognize the Turkish occupied areas of Cyprus **
2. A secondary smaller reason is because they do not trust a greater Albanian nation on thier
borders especially when their are territorial ambitions coming from the Albanina side.
3. Historical support of Orthodox Christian brethren is the third reason, but also the smallest of the three.
** And this is why places like Spain, Romania, Slovakia, China, Russia, etc, etc, etc will never recognize Kosovo,either. If Spain recognized today, Catalonia would leave tomorrow.
If slavs are such closely related to Albanians than why did Kosovo Serbs start trouble with them in 1989. There isn't going to be a new war over a name dispute. Bulgaria is in EU, Greece is bankrupt and Croatia and Slovenia are in NATO. Macedonia will remain independent.
In fact it shows that Serbs and Albanians have DNA links.
Cultural and religious affinities have a far greater resonance in the subject matter of this discussion. Additionally, a shared history of resistance to foreign Turkish occupation is the other.
(factman, 24 July 2015 14:50)
Factman,
No one is denying that DNA of Region is mixed it has to just where we are possitioned, however Serbs claim Kosovo as their heart land and state that Albanians came there which makes no sense as migration in Balkans happened North to South not south to north ( excluding Kosovo Serbs going to Vojvodina after WWI).
You are correct that this land belongs to people and being here 1200 years you belong to the region. However Serbs do not find it in them to want to share with Albanians.
You see 1389 Battle of Kosovo which Serbs lost and fought side by side with Albanians is celebrated as a Serb only battle and Serbs want Kosovo without Albanians in it that can not happen.
Кога Р. Србија беше бомбардирана, беше бомбардирано од? НАТО. Грчката позиција во тој период беше база за бомбашите, како што беше Италија и Ќипар.
Какво лицемерие и хипокритичност…
When R. Serbia was ‘bombed’ for to protect the innocent mountain thugs in uniforms, it was bombed by, NATO.
Athen’s position during the period was the tarmac for the bombers. As it was Italy and Cyprus. What a hypocrisy..
Since when we take rumors so serious ? Doesn’t Greece have a Foreign Ministry to explain all this ? What is the difference between what Rote or Rocky said here and the provocative news by some SKAI website ? They are just PRing themselves at the cost of peace on Balkans. After yesterday news about the idiotic Barbarossa Plan in Bosnia it is second time that B92 does not think of the sequences of the articles they place. I believe that every word here must be filtered not to worsen the relations in the region. Greece is almost standing on the knees and we are to support them but not to kick them. So are the Macedonians. Their choice is nothing better - either they get rid of their Slav name and bar the pipe or they will have their own Maidan and their own UCK. Same cornered are the Serbs and the Shqiptaret … How long we’ll be letting provoke us so easily ?
Greece should follow its national interest when it exercizes foreign policy. Western ballkans stability is important for the region and beyond.
The name issue should be resolved, when it comes to Kosovo's recognition of independence that is obviously up to Greece but having in mind that the majority of countries have recognized Kosovo (more than 105 worldwide out of which 23 EU member states) than Greece could easily contribute in strengthening the stability in WB, in fact by not recognizing Kosovo's independence it is passively contributing to destabilization of the region because it gives nationalist a reason to believe that the Kosovo issue is not solved yet.
However, to make things easier i would just remind you that the international court of justice has ruled that declaration of independence is not a violation of any law, on the other hand Serbian Government has negotiated with the Kosovo government several agreements and it has de-facto recognized Kosovo's independence, Serbian community is part of Kosovo's independent institutions, they are happily providing all services to all communities.
Therefore, the sooner Kosovo is recognized by grece the better for everyone.
OK, we get it, you have been living here a long, long, long time.
So What?
My ancestors came 1,200 years ago. That is about 20 lifetimes ago. To call Serbs newcomers is yet another silly thing to say.
And to infer that Greeks and Albanians have a shared blood line is also silly, to the point of being comical. Like the Da Vinci Code.
The facts are that current DNA analysis shows that all the peoples of the region share common ancestry.
In fact it shows that Serbs and Albanians have DNA links.
Cultural and religious affinities have a far greater resonance in the subject matter of this discussion. Additionally, a shared history of resistance to foreign Turkish occupation is the other.
Non-recognition of Kosovo by Greece has nothing to do with Cyprus. That's simplistic Serbian propaganda. It is also offensive to Greece.
If you knew more about Cyprus, you would know that no matter which ways Kosovo goes, it will have zero impact on Cyprus. (By the way, have you been following the recent developments there?)
We need stability in the Balkans and that comes with compromises. If recognizing Kosovo, will make the region better, then Greece WILL recognize Kosovo.
If you want further proof of kosovo being pandora's box look at how some of the US's biggest allies oppose kosovo recognition like isreal, ukraine, georgia, spain, mexico
(Aleks, 24 July 2015 20:16)
Aleks,
You really should learn something about world politics before making a fool of yourself. The five countries you listed are, in fact, allies of the US, but are far from being the US's biggest allies. Any informed person would know that the England, Germany, France and Japan are among the top four. Other great allies of the US are Italy and the rest of Western Europe as well as Israel, Australia and Canada. I really didn't think I'd have to engage in a lesson in elementary world politics for the uneducated, but unfortunately B92 has no basic requirements. Putin would spank you if he thought you included Ukraine and Georgia among the allies of the US, although in fact, they are. Furthermore, expect Greece to, very soon, recognize Kosova. Now then, you may go back to your computer to play war games, but not till you learn to spell "isreal" (your spelling) correctly.
I really do not think Greece is in any position to act like bullies in the Balkans. Serbia should stick with Macedonia, and let the Greeks be with the Albanians. I think Europe and the world is getting very tired of Greece. In time, Greece will self-destruct, it is already happening.
Greece is not Serbia’s friend, they are just a bunch of hellenized Albanians and Turks. There is no way they can be our friend.
Nikos Dimou the great Greek writer gave a very interesting interview recently for the New York Times:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/24/arts/design/24abroad.html?_r=2&adxnnl=1&pagewanted=2&adxnnlx=1436047412-svOKX94RAAGA1d5aS21kpg
“It’s the fault of a German,” Mr. Dimou said about Greek pride in this cause. He was referring to Johann Winckelmann, the 18th-century German art historian whose vision of an ancient Greece “populated by beautiful, tall, blond, wise people, representing perfection,” as Mr. Dimou put it, was in a sense imposed on the country to shape modern Greek identity.
“We used to speak Albanian and call ourselves Romans, but then Winckelmann, Goethe, Victor Hugo, Delacroix, they all told us, ‘No, you are Hellenes, direct descendants of Plato and Socrates,’ and that did it. If a small, poor nation has such a burden put on its shoulders, it will never recover.”
Look at this ethnographic map of Balkans established by French Guillaume Lejean in 1861, Greece was clearly an Albanian populated province by that time.
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Balk.Ethno-1861.jpg
Watch also this video from mainstream skainews greek tv, it is a superb documentary about the history of Greece. Greece spoke mainly Albanian in the 18th century.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M99ze151HvA
I'm curious to know which side will take Serbia if FYROM goes to war with Greece. Just saying....
(albo devil, 25 July 2015 15
=========================
First of all FYROM will not go to war with Greece and if by some strange insanity FYROM did indeed provoke a war with Greece, Greece won't need any help from anyone to crush them.
When R. Serbia was ‘bombed’ for to protect the innocent mountain thugs in uniforms, it was bombed by, NATO.
Athen’s position during the period was the tarmac for the bombers. As it was Italy and Cyprus. What a hypocrisy..
(Daniel, 25 July 2015 11:48)
==========================
I belive it was only Italy because Greece refused to allow their base to be used.
Greece should follow its national interest when it exercizes foreign policy. Western ballkans stability is important for the region and beyond.
The name issue should be resolved, when it comes to Kosovo's recognition of independence that is obviously up to Greece but having in mind that the majority of countries have recognized Kosovo (more than 105 worldwide out of which 23 EU member states) than Greece could easily contribute in strengthening the stability in WB, in fact by not recognizing Kosovo's independence it is passively contributing to destabilization of the region because it gives nationalist a reason to believe that the Kosovo issue is not solved yet.
However, to make things easier i would just remind you that the international court of justice has ruled that declaration of independence is not a violation of any law, on the other hand Serbian Government has negotiated with the Kosovo government several agreements and it has de-facto recognized Kosovo's independence, Serbian community is part of Kosovo's independent institutions, they are happily providing all services to all communities.
Therefore, the sooner Kosovo is recognized by grece the better for everyone.
After reading all your comments and for your information my country recognizes Kosovo's sovereignty despite a possible and lingering separatist movement in the neighbouring province of Quebec (only an hour or more drive from my birthplace/former hometown which is the northern New Brunswick city of Bathurst.)
To be honest, the fact that we have disagreements is because of bullshit media! Media separated us from respecting each other and living in peace. Athens should shut the hell up and recognize Kosovo! Serbia should recognize Kosovo because is a critical time to do it. God bless Balkans and human beings everywhere!!!
1/ My comments about history are my tribute to peace on Balkans as they unite Serbs and Shqiptaret more than anything else. Yet there are always 20-30% of those who agree with me and it surprises me more than the nihilist crowd. It means that there always are some folks who are not zombied and still can afford thinking. History was deformed almost in every detail so one has to read it with the mentality of a detective. . … https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbQMplPvA7k&list=PLPGFd35aflj2VleTUswq9sB6TLdwWFDE0&index=2 … Many outstanding western scientists also questioned the history of the mankind developed only in 17 century.
2/ In my comment I got much less approval than Mladko though the main idea of mine was to thank him for the link of the film about the true history of Greece. And it was a Greek film but only because “rote” liked it you gave me your “poor comments”.
3/ Maybe the problem is that I gave a link of an alternative look at the history? … http://www.chronologia.org/en/how_it_was/index.html … But none of you had time to even look though the version. They wrote 24 good books and shoot 24 good films. First read at least one chapter and then say what is wrong. The most outstanding Russian mathematician for 42 years develops the idea with millions of supporters behind him.
4/ Fomenko/Nosovsky are not the only ones doubting the legal history. There are other schools that sometimes link them and sometimes not.
Greece is getting upset,over Serbia,Kosovo,Macedonija?
Greece has the right to dispute names or recognition?
1.Greece to be expelled from european union.
2 Greece to give back the occupied Macedonian territory back to Macedonija
3 Greece to be punished for the genocide for over 100 years over Macedonians
4 Greece to give recognition and human rights for all national minorities who live in Greek territory,Serbian,Macedonian,Albanian,Jews...
Europe will benefit,Balkan will benefit problem reduced not sold.
Many who have not recognized K have chosen to not do so because it would open a Pandora's box in their own country.
Or are you saying that they are not recognizing K because they love Serbs :))
(factman, 24 July 2015 17:45)
What you say is true, when you analyze the reason for countries not recognizing Kosovo, you have some that do not because of their own issues of separatist movements, eventhough the history is not the same and most do not view the situation as foreigners occupying THEIR land as Serbs do.
Russia (Serbias biggest ally) does not recognize more due to the spat with the west and the embarrassment of events in 1999 than allegiance with Serbia.
Majority of other countries not recognizing is due to Russian alliance.
Then there are those who do not really consider it an important issue and are battling their own issues. Some are subject to regime changes and this is an insignificant factor (lets face it how many countries outside of Europe really have a reason to really care)
So the bottom line is very few countries that do not recognize are really doing so out of any kind of support for Serbia.
(Peggy, 27 July 2015 02:00)
Peggy you are a riot, you look down on Albanians and think you are somehow superior. Maybe your post would have bothered me if I were Albanian and took it to heart. I doubt they do coming from you.
But you see I am American plain and simple, I know about the Russians landing at the airport in Pristina to show force, I also know they had to pull out and showed their lack of force. I know that Putin withdrew Russian soldiers out of Kfor, and left it to NATO to secure the land. I know that for the sake of Serbia they opposed EULEX replacing UNMIK, all the while Serbia saying EULEX, never! And as Eulex was unpacking their supplies in Kosovo and the last of UNMIK were holding plane tickets home, Russia and Serbia about faced and said Welcome Eulex in another face saving attempt. I know that Russia says it opposes Kosovo recognition but have not seen any activity trying to persuade any of the 100+ countries who do, not to.
As the cold war resurfaces and the anti-Russia sentiment and distrust in the US is surging, that the US is not going to reverse course and try and buddy with Serbia over Kosovo.
I know that if you want to look down your nose at me, you need to bring a really tall step ladder. I put you in the same class as a street beggar, only worse as some of them still have morals.
Greece is getting upset,over Serbia,Kosovo,Macedonija?
Greece has the right to dispute names or recognition?
1.Greece to be expelled from european union.
2 Greece to give back the occupied Macedonian territory back to Macedonija
3 Greece to be punished for the genocide for over 100 years over Macedonians
4 Greece to give recognition and human rights for all national minorities who live in Greek territory,Serbian,Macedonian,Albanian,Jews...
Europe will benefit,Balkan will benefit problem reduced not sold.
"Sorry, I don't see it." I tell you what else you don't see, burning villages, people in tents in Macedonia and journalists expelled as they were when the heavenly people ruled roost. Now, maybe you like to see those things, who knows, but I don't, hence why, however bad Kosovo today is, it is infinitely better than what it was, this is what you have to get your head round
Russia has a population who are very close to Serbs and the people of Russia do have influence over their government. Americans don't give a damn about you so as soon as their interests chance you have no support from them or anyone else they pressured in supporting you. You can only wish you had a big brother in your corner but all you have is a user.
(Peggy, 27 July 2015 02:00)
Peggy I have been to Russia many many times and I tell you majority of population has no clue what Serbia does or even is outside of ability to point in map. When did Russian people have to do anything with what Russian government does by the way? If you believe that I am selling a bridge i would like to sell you.
Where do you think we are going to if anyone is gone you are living far far away in Australia!!!
Perry, you do know that your sweetheart Sloba didn't even support greek thugs on this, don't ya. Milosevic supported a confederation, but he never said that Macedonia was a fake state that belonged to Greece. No Serbian leader has ever supported Bulgarian or Greek territorial ambitions regarding Macedonia.
You're camouflaged alright but most people know that albanian history in the balkans is just about 600 years old.Read some ottoman historians to find out where your ancestors came from.
Sorry, I don't see it.
(Questioner, 25 July 2015 11:43)
Serbian propaganda, for sure in kosova is way better and more democratic, if you talk about islanics, lets count it, is it kosova more Islamic or Serbia more Slavic orthodxic... what bothers you for kosova to be Islamic, we don't care about you what you are and what you practice, as for corruption and criminals state, ask you self how your politisians run the Serbia for more then 25 years, are you dictators,comunist country, or what
...and the people of Russia do have influence over their government.... (Peggy, 27 July 2015 02:00)
Are you serious, or you are smoking something?
You think that Putin and his overnight self-made billionaire buddies care about ordinary Russians?
Look at their living standards and compare to the living standards in Serbia.
Serbia's living standards are far better than Russians.
While comparing the living standards of Germany, North Europe,Canada or USA, Russia is third world country.
Or Russia's living standards is better than Australia?
You read too much Russian Times.
Give it up and look the reality.
@illy
actually you are wrong, stabilizing/destabilizing the situation in the Balkans has nothing to do with it ... it has to do with not opening pandora's box by recognizing kosovo .. why do you think most countries don't want to recognize kosovo? they obviously don't want to fuel separatist tendencies in their territories
Many who have not recognized K have chosen to not do so because it would open a Pandora's box in their own country.
Or are you saying that they are not recognizing K because they love Serbs :))
(factman, 24 July 2015 17:45)
While I get the reasoning behind that logic (it's one of fear), I also think it's short sighted and even wrong. What these countries are saying or the message they are sending (whether voluntarily or not) is that they don't recognize Kosova because what they have done to their territories and all that comes with that (circumstances, politics,human right violations, constitutional violations) are equal to the acts that Kosova had to endure under Serbia. This is clearly not the case for some of these countries but they've made this parallelism themselves and all the territories have to do is spell out the message that these countries themselves have legitimized. Out of the fear of not equalizing the situationd, they've done quite the opposite. We are afraid to recognize Kosova because our territorries may have the legitimity to be independent, like Kosova. This is actually making the case for these territories and claiming they have a valid case for independence. One could still not recognize but remove themselves from the parallelism. There's room for that there. However that flies out of the window when one says not recognizing because of a principle, as it shows that the principle is the only way to keep the territories not how you treat them.
"If you knew more about Cyprus, you would know that no matter which ways Kosovo goes, it will have zero impact on Cyprus. (By the way, have you been following the recent developments there?)"
(illy, 24 July 2015 17:01)
It's not about what happens to Cyprus, but about bot recognizing self proclaimed republics by ethnic minorities. That's the main reason why the 5 EU members didn't recognize Kosovo, Greece amongst them.
"We need stability in the Balkans and that comes with compromises."
(illy, 24 July 2015 17:01)
Correct, compromises. But where is the 'compromise' with an independent Kosovo where ethnic minorities (not only Serbs, but Roma, too) are severely discriminated, threatened and harassed in daily life?
"If recognizing Kosovo, will make the region better, then Greece WILL recognize Kosovo."
(illy, 24 July 2015 17:01)
Kosovo is already recognized by many countries, but I don't see anything that made the region better. Now you have one more corrupt mafia state, a new European drug hub, a new source for Islamists, and even the proud 'Kosovarians' flee from their new 'country', invade the EU and are one of the biggest groups applying for asylum, abusing the system and making the situation worse for real asylum seekers, like people from Syria who flee from war and Islamic terrorism and not from self-chosen and again and again self-elected economic misery like Kosovo Albanians do. So, tell me, what is 'better' now? Sorry, I don't see it.
If you want further proof of kosovo being pandora's box look at how some of the US's biggest allies oppose kosovo recognition like isreal, ukraine, georgia, spain, mexico
(Aleks, 24 July 2015 20:16)
Australia is one of the US's biggest allies. It's recognition of Kosova was almost instant. 2 days after Kosovo declared Independence.
Canada and Australia, along with 30 other countries, responded to a United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) request to provide asylum for 750,000 refugees in Macedonian refugee camps
The mind boggles at how it is that such a state could allow it's military to expel 750,000 people, women, children and the elderly and leave them to fend for themselves in the wilderness and neighboring countries.
The moral of the story is that if a state doesn't cater to it's own people and creates a humanitarian crisis for other states to pick up the burden. Then ultimately this humanitarian expense has its payback.
“I was totally stunned to find out that Albanian still call God Zeus in their tongue”
I can tell you where all those “Greek” gods appeared. We have them on some of the oldest churches of ours ! Including the famous Uspensky Sobor in Vladimir built by Aristotel Fyorovanti himself. … https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dormition_Cathedral,_Vladimir … After the Romanovs seized power they destroyed all such bas-reliefs but some remained. On the upper side of the walls here you will find Jesus and all his relatives from the ruing Horde family of the Rurik/Komnins who wrote all those fairy tales about the Olympic Gods ect. It lasted till 1370 when Great Khan Dmitry Donskoy refused from their family (royal) Christianity. Their logic was simple as Jesus is one of us we too are Gods … Dmitry I put an end to it and introduced the Apostolic Christianity where all people became equal nder the Lord. He baptised the country but he had to fight for it until he was killed on Kosovo Polje as Murad I. So Zeus and the smaller gods were all invented in Russia but in 17-18 centuries they all were granted to the Greeks. I have no hatred for the Sqiptaret and I believe that they came here together with the Serbs during Horde’s two colonizations of Europe in early 14 or in late 15 centuries. Yet genetics say that Serbia and Macedonia are the craddle of the Slavic R1a1a happlogroup.
P.S. By the way California initially was Calif Orda i.e. Horde of the Calif …
Interesting theory, but, this is from 5 millenia ago (5th century BC)?
Just because someone is indigenous to an area doesn't mean that they own all the land or have some superior claim to land. Or some moral rights that others don't. After all, the indigenous people also came from somewhere also? They didnt just grow from the earth.
Migration from one region to another is a common occurence in mankind. As are barbarian invasions. As are wars. As are one people growing to become stronger and more powerful than their neighbors who were there first. As is one aide "crowding" out the other side.
To follow this argument to its logical conclusion would lead to silliness. It means that one should tell Hungarians to go back to the aestern steppes. British to get out of the islands. Turks to go back to Mongolia. Americans to go back to Europe. Romanians to go back to Italy. etc
Greece made the mistake of not raising any objections when the Yugoslav Communist Party under the recommendation of Djilas created the so called Republic of Macedonia as part of the Yugoslav Federation. The Republic of Macedonia was recognized by Milosevic in line with Yugoslav and Serbian Communist party lines. The creation of so called FYROM grew from the IMRO and its terrorist activities up and including the assassination of King Alexander I in Marseilles, France in 1934. FYROM is republic formed primarily from Bulgarian, Serbian and Greek countries. It tried to lay claim to the Hellenic Macedonian civilization which is clearly Greek based on history.
The current Serbian political leadership is still influenced by prior Communist policy on the republic of Macedonia.
Greece is in need of help, but don't we all go through financial crisis at some point? Serbia is insulting Greece by claiming that Greece is under pressure to recognize Kosovo. Let us assume that is the case, what has serbia done to protect herself from letting Kosovo go by? Serbia initiated the negotiation, while Dacic has the nerves to demand explanation from Greece? On top of that you have recognized Macedonia which Greece disputes.
Now you got Croatia, Bosnia, and Kosovo Albanians laughing at you. Montenegro and Macedonia did recognize Kosovo, Greece has not. Serbia, wake up you are falling behind day by day. When I say serbia I mean belgrade.
Good to read Greece acknowledging Serbia has become one of the leading supporters of Kosovo independence in the world. Serbia must realize its not fooling anyone and schedule a Kosovo removal from Serbias constitution referendum.
I have plenty of time every summer but you’re right sometimes I too think I am an idiot knocking on your closed doors. Serbs are happy to kill the Russian Great Kniaz Dmitry I on Kosovo Field while you believe that someone with Slav parents, Slav wife and Slav names of all his 9 children could be national hero of the Shqiptaret. A couple of days ago I wrote it here that monasteries were initially established to home the retired Horde soldiers. Yesterday I checked it once again reading about the most known Russina monks. Those were Peresvet and Osliablia. They took part in the greatest Kulikovo Battle and Peresvet was the one who fought the mightiest “Tatar” warrior Kochubei. Isn’t it strange that the Russians moved forward a monk ? It isn’ if you know who were the monks then. Both were Boyars ( i.e. professional warriors ) before they became monks. One could not inherit the title as it was awarded for personal achievements. So the monks were professional warriors. But today it looks as strange as my statement about the monasteries. In late 16 century Joseph Scaliger gave approximate place where Israel, Palestine and Judea could be and it proved to be a small spot in the dead desert where Europeans got first access only 220 years later. Go to Wiki and see what happened in Jerusalem between 1500 and 1900. They give zero info about the period because the city was built only in early 19 century. Ect.
As a ks albo very little i care if or when greece recognise ks as independent. Important? Yes but only symbolic!!
Some greek business have come to invest in pristina... this is good... independence recognition wont increase that..
Rote,
You are right,most world history is written recently and it is certainly not accurate.
More you look at history of modern Greece, more it looks artificial. Its people are mainly arvanitas/albanians, turks and serbs / bulgarians to some degree. Greece is the only country that has totally eradicated all serb toponyms. Not even communist Albania went that far.
Call me nuts, but I do believe that albos might rightfully stake a claim to history as being the natives of Europe, their language being the most ancient out there. I was totally stunned to find out that Albanian still call God Zeus in their tongue and have been trying to educate myself on the subject but it is difficult to separate the nationalism from science in Balkan history and research.
The most serious and recent research I could find on genes, language and populations is done by Cavalli-Sforza at Stanford University in California. They seem to be the authority on this matter and they place the Albanian language at the root of all European languages having appeared around 8 to 9 thousand years ago with Greek language appearing only around 4 to 5 thousand years ago.
http://tinyurl.com/ogth7v5
This is fascinating stuff.
I am familiar with the work of Fomenko, very original, but his theories have been debunked by the Russian Academy of Sciences and have not attracted any interest in the West.
http://www.ras.ru/digest/fdigestlist/bulletin.aspx
http://hbar.phys.msu.ru/gorm/fomenko/zaliznk.htm
Peggy I have been to Russia many many times and I tell you majority of population has no clue what Serbia does or even is outside of ability to point in map. When did Russian people have to do anything with what Russian government does by the way? If you believe that I am selling a bridge i would like to sell you.
Where do you think we are going to if anyone is gone you are living far far away in Australia!!!
(Soft Spoken, 27 July 2015 14:37
=====================================
Maybe you should go to Russia a few more times and ask the average Russian how they feel about Serbs. On your previous trips you must've stumbled on tourists in Russia.
Russian people have as much influence on their government as anyone else. Actually, the Yanks have a lot less influence but they think they have more. If you compare Putin to Obama right now I think that Putin is a much better president. At least he loves Russia, unlike Obama who seems to have a dislike to the US. Have you paid attention to that man lately? Talk about standard of living, well the US has nothing to be proud of. A whole city going bankrupt and homelessness is a real problem. Just becaue the media wants to bury their head in the sand doesn't mean you don't have a real problem with poverty and you point at Russia! Can an average Anmerican do anything to change the situation? Can they stop the government from attacking the world?
"Shqiperi" - means the land of the eagles … The symbol of Kastrioti family was the black "two-head eagle", the flag of Gjergj Kastrioti … all our neighbors and all the world call us Albanians.”
But Skanderbeg everything else looks OK. The eagle you is the family symbol of the Christ’s family (the Komnins) … https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Komnenos-Isaac-Arms.svg. … It also remained on the Russian and Serbian flags while in the rest of Europe the eastern heads of the eagles were cut off in 17-18 centuries. But because the Shqiptaret and the Serbs remained in the Ottoman Empire they managed to save their old Hordic symbols. And of course it’s your business how to call yourself because it’s your real mane. But you say that all the rest call you Albanians. So what ? All the rest call other names many peoples like the Armenians, Georgians, Germans, Ossetians, Cherkess ect. Say Ossetians call themselves “Iron” and it sounds exactly as Iran (Iron) in Persian. So is their language close to Iranian and Kurdish. Kurds are called “halk-e Kurd” (Kurd people) while their old name was “halk-e Horde” (Horde people). Everybody could be a Kurd – Shiptaret, Russians, Serbs, Bulgarians ect. as it didn’t mean nation or language they spoke. That’s why happlogroups and languages of the Kurds in 4 countries differ so much. Thus the only thing I disagree is Skanderbeg and I’ve already explained twice why he could merely be of you.
I wrote 3-4 answers to your question and then deleted them all.
It's a great question.
I think everyone here should try and answer it.
Truth be told, I dont know what the answer is. I wish I knew, but I don't.
Of course, the only word that comes to mind is: "compromise" (but even that word is "loaded" it seems)
Ps: There is a good degree of truth in your statement (about Serbs not sharing). But in all fairness to Serbs, there is also another side to your statement (it's nit so black and white in my opinion). But, I think you will agree, that its difficult to discuss nuances like that in this method. It can sometimes be a very antagonistic audience here!
Some of your arguments I cannot estimate, some I disagree but I gave you my LIKE because you are the first one who at least tries to explain things. All the rest just give their POOR COMMENTS without any explanation. Joni you have to know that for me explanation is when you tell an ancient or medieval document or artefact with proven reliability. From this point by mentioning the Illyrians you make a strategic mistake as it proves nothing but it arises a new question if you had anything to do with the Illyrians. So now you have two things to prove. And it’s not only the problem of the Sqiptaret but most of the people in the region. I mean the Greeks, Macedonians, Kurds, Serbs, Armenians, Turks, Persians, Arabs, Arameans, Jews, Romanians, Russians ect. Last week I investigated one problem : if two Russian generals and one American were 3 men or 2 or 1 ? Two Russians were of Armenian origin so sooner or later I came to reading about the Armenian rulers and dynasties. I was shocked to find dozens of them in all the countries around. Try to find Асадов Юрий Андреевич : Родословные тайны армянских князей in English. So it’s a big question whom we call the Armenians. Same with most of the peoples who call themselves different. I believe that Albanians (the whites) were the people of the White Horde (the main Horde)who seized the world in 15-16 centuries. It mustn't harm you as Shqiptaret is a good and seems that the real name of yours.
Why do you waste your time for me ? Why not read Fomenko fist ? Start with his 24 films of the new chronology with English subtitles. They are very persuasive and it will drive you crazy. When you calm down start to read his reconstruction of history. …. http://www.chronologia.org/en/how_it_was/index.html ... If it not kills you start reading his 24 books. Then we’ll have something to discuss. Reading Wikipedia about Fomenko is same as asking the Croats or Albanians about the Serbs or the opposite. Don’t be naive about the West it was them who stole our history so Fomenko is the mortal enemy of theirs.
"I have no time for reading all Fomenko's rubbish"
The link was not of Fomenko but of Isaak Newton who 280 years before Fomenko wrote similar things. He feared to publish the book so it was edited only after his death.
Finally.... B92 posts an article that contradicts the propaganda that is spewed from this "news source"...
Wake up Serbs... everyone but the average Serbian citizen knows that Serbian politicians are Pro-West. Whatever the EU and US propose, the Serbs must implement. Here's a quote from the article.
The circles then "pointed out that in practice, Serbia has in fact sought closer relations with Kosovo, despite the public image it is creating on the home front."
Case and point.
Every politician will say "Kosova is Serbia", but what they don't say is that the crooks, Thaci and Vucic, are sleeping together.
@rote,
I thought I was nuts but you are totally crazy, follow the links I sent you if you can read Russian, Fomenko theories are pseudo science, if it entertains you, that is fine, but otherwise don't waste your time with it. Da Vinci Code is way more fun. I am sure Pyramids of Egypt were built 300 years ago by the Horde, get a grip dude, you start sounding that nationalist Albos that believe they are the belly button of the world.
@jony
Yes, it is fascinating that Albanians call God Zeus in their tongue, no other people does that, not even the greeks. There are many other ancient gods that make more sense in albanian that have no valid explanation in greek yet are part of greek mythology, I found a lot of research done by german scholars in the 18th century in the subject. Given the studies of Cavalli-Sforza placing the albanian way before the greek in the language tree, one could speculate that the incoming greeks borrowed most of the gods from native albanians living in the peninsula.
Now when you look at the albanians, they do have some traits of native peoples, no real allegiance to any religion other than immediate economic interests, stubborn, not very developed, no written language history. They look similar to the native peoples in North America to me.
Many will tell you here that when I start to call names life becomes a grey. So next time you open your mouth think twice and best if you read something before. Yesterday it took me more than an hour to read the links you gave. Linguistic critics of Zalizniak have some reasons but he takes only few of the thousands evidence that ATF offers. I also doubted this part of ATF&Co theory because they translate everything only from Russian. Meanwhile we all know that he Horde was a multinational force although led by the Slavs. Say we have geographic places translated from other Horde languages like Cabarda in Spain or London. In such cases they declare the Goth-Alanians or Sarmatians of as Slavs … Yes their R1b happlogroup is a sister to the Russian R1a1a but if so then the Iranians, Panjabi, Pashtuns, Hindu, Kirgiz, Kurd, Bengali and Belujistan people are also Slavs … So I do not automatically accept their new chronology. And also they repeat it many times that many of the things are their hypothesis. But there are things that they insist on and then they are very persuasive. Below I give a link of “A Short Chronicle from the First Memory of Things in Europe, to the Conquest of Persia by Alexander the Great” by Isaak Newton. Later if you behave I’ll supply you with a link of Robert Newton from NASA about the astronomical chronology.
@rote
sorry dude, I didn't call you crazy to offend, rather to say how out of the ordinary your ideas were.
I have no time for reading all Fomenko's rubbish but his theory is total nonsense, I know it is wikipedia but it gives you a good summary of the issue in the link below it.
Sorry,I am not buying it, it is good material for conspiracy theorists though.
(rote, 28 July 2015 19:01)
Two things have come to mind:
1.You have an enormous amount of time on your hands and from the number of posts occurring at all times of the day and the extensiveness of them ( hard to believe the moderators are making you stick to the 1500 character rule) you have become obsessed with this website and spend the equivalent of a full time job here. So I think you are either recently retired, incarcerated in a place that allows you unlimited computer access, or physically incapacitated to where you have no other outlet.
2. You are definitely a legend in your own mind! The way you think that you somehow put people in their place like this is some cyber video game and you are discharging words like weapons, means you have serious psychological issues. The one thing you need to know is if someone thinks you are an idiot, then you go on your rant and mix Russian and English and post thousands of links, at the end of the day that person is still going to say "idiot"
I find myself seeing a lengthy post and I immediately skim to the end to see if it is you and then I decide whether I want to waste my time reading it or not, and more and more frequently it is becoming no as life is too short to waste. Maybe if I were some psychologist doing research and there might be a payoff at the end but just for something to do no way.
@ rote
5/ Because there’s no evidence that the Shqiptaret are the medieval Albanians
* Albania name - derive from the ilyrian tribe of Albani or Albanoi.
* In Gheg dialect (Gjergj Kastrioti Skanderbeg dialect ) - Shqipe - mean eagle, while in Tosk dialect is : Shqiponj
"Shqipe" + "rri" - means "eagles + stay" in Albanian if you check one by one the words.
And like a phrase in Albanian means: "where the eagles stand "
And "Shqiperi" - means the land of the eagles in Albanian
The symbol of Kastrioti family was the black "two-head eagle", the flag of Gjergj Kastrioti Skanderbeg was the red flag with the black "two-head eagle".
Albania have the same flag till today.
Sorry i have not too much time to explain it in detail.
Just we call ourselves "Shqiptar" which means in our language "the eagles" all our neighbors and all the world call us Albanians.
Is the same even for the Greeks - nobody know Ellada or Hellenica - because just Greeks call themselves like this.
@rote
Newton was a good physician, what makes you think he was a good historian?
Being famous in physics, he tried to be expert on many things in his lifetime, he also tried to give financial advice where he failed miserably by losing his fortune in the south sea bubble, not to mentions his beliefs in the bible, alchemy etc.
Using the fallacy of authority to prove a point does not make it more valid.
Do you really believe that if there was an ounce of truth on Fomenko's rambling it would go unnoticed by the scientific community in the Western world. I get it, we might be manipulated by our government, but do you think all universities and research institutions of science will be silenced into believing a lie?
Fomenko has an audience near russians dreaming for the big slav empire, no sensible person would take him seriously.
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