Radko Mladic who orchestrated the mass deportation and execution, was the leading general of the VRS, the predecessor of the RS.
Would be only good if Serbia would stop the denial and refusal to attend the commemoration. Take an example on Germany, they don't demand any time to honor the millions of Germans killed when commemorating the holocaust.
(Comm. Parrisson, 11 June 2015 09:57) # Comment link
Who orchestrated the mass deportation and execution of Serbs from Sarajevo and why is that not as important as Bosnian Muslims? You look at ICTY rulings as a source of partiality? The Holocaust was one sided violence, the Jews were not fighting Germany. Bosnian Muslims were fighting to dominate Serbs in RS. My God, you're as brainwashed and indoctrinated by the leftist NGO's in Belgrade as the previous generations were with communism.
BTW my long deceased American born parents had no criminal records and father was a decorated US army Veteran of WWII.
Have a good day (_._)
(Roger7, 11 June 2015 21:33)
You should be ashamed to dishonor him by supporting all that he opposed in the war. Some times good parents produce evil children, it is a fact that is unexplainable, that is if one chooses to believe your story.
I say you're a hate-monger and a racist.
(Roger7, 11 June 2015 13:15)
Of course you would, you have that same tainted DNA. Just like children born to criminal parents throughout the world a person can break free and be a honest, moral caring person. But the people on here, you included, do not seem to possess that desire.
Leave it up to an article on Srebrenica to make roberto crawl out of wherever he hides the rest of the time to once again give the impression he knows anything about the Balkans from his place in the US. If there ever was proof that a political initiative is behind attempts to label Srebrenica as "genocide", it's his transparent keyboard humanitarianism.
Keep it up frisco, you're little more than a digital joke around here.
For those interested in Srebrenica there is an hour long documentary made in Norway, by Norwegian director, and shown in Norway and Sweden in 2011. It's in English.
Genocide, to put it simply, is attempt to physically destroy, exterminate, ethnic or religious group. Example, Jews in WW2.
In part , or in whole.
Example, Turks did not attempt (successfully) destruction of all Armenians, only of ones living in Turkey.
Those who say Srebrenica was genocide, thus claim that Serbs attempted destruction of Srebrenica Muslims - their physical destruction, "the end" of this ethic group.
If this was their intent they did a very poor job, as they allowed women and children to leave - very groups that assure Srebrenica Muslim survival and reproduction.
Study in Bosnia have shown that Srebrenica women despite loosing their husbands have same reproductive rate (child per woman) as others in Bosnia.
Sure there were relocated from Srebrenica which can be called "ethnic cleansing" not genocide, as it's not same as actual physical destruction.
"A terrible war crime was committed, namely execution of captured combatants, but genocide? "
(Jeff, 10 June 2015 12:17)
Not exactly. More like the planned deportation and execution of all males (youngest victim was 13, oldest 78, as far as I remember) who have sought shelter in an UN protection zone. I always thought combatants are killed in a battle, as the name suggests.
"The paper added the resolution would state that the Srebrenica crime was an act of genocide, and Serbia would not be accused directly, but would in some manner be brought in connection with the crimes, together with the RS."
Where's the problem? The ICJ ruled the same, that the Srebrenica massacre, the worst massacre on Euroepan soil after WW2, and already downplayed as a 'crime' above, WAS a genocide. And well, of course the RS will be brought in the connection. Remember, Radko Mladic who orchestrated the mass deportation and execution, was the leading general of the VRS, the predecessor of the RS.
Would be only good if Serbia would stop the denial and refusal to attend the commemoration. Take an example on Germany, they don't demand any time to honor the millions of Germans killed when commemorating the holocaust.
(Be Honest, 10 June 2015 22:01)
What kind of moniker is that, you obviously have no idea what honesty is and from my viewpoint share as much guilt as those you defend.
When I saw the video of Trnovo, it finally hit home what a callous, group of people you are and I say 78 days should have only been the beginning. The only thing left in Belgrade should today be a memorial to those who died at your hands and a big empty pit. Serbia should have been divided up like Austria following WW2 with someone controlling each sector. There is no way that Serbia should have been left intact without Kosovo, to rebuild their empire of evil. From the post on here from those who share your blood I say there are no redeeming qualities in the Serbian DNA.
Maybe, you are out of order. To peddle this sole victim schtick for so long is boring everybody. Everyone suffered. Serbs as much as anyone.
(Jeff, 10 June 2015 22:23)
Don't think it is boring to everyone!! But yes everyone suffered, due to Serbs, and the Serbs suffered due to reciprocation of what they were doing to others.
If you hit me and then I hit you back, does anyone owe you sympathy?
That is why it is hard to have sympathy for a bus load of Serbs traveling through Kosovo and a frail woman who lost her husband and sons to the very vermin on it, throws stones at it
You and your peers seem to think they are equal to each other. You murder, rape and brutalize and then whine because someone turns a tombstone over that you have not even seen in 15 years.
I look forward to your debate and see how Serbs are branded once again in the public arena as heinous monsters that was willing to kill anyone that was not a Serb.
So the hundreds of thousands of families in the Balkans who have faced much misery at your very hands do not think I am boring!!
It is time to accept responsibility for all the suffering you caused to everyone else and your own people.
However, work of this Tribunal (often called kangaroo court even in the West) was more then questionable.
To you, that's decided. I guess, it was also decided (by Hague Tribunal) that not a single Croat crime against Serbs happened in Croatia, as this court never sentenced a single Croat for crimes in Croatia...
I, however, prefer to think for myself...
(Sreten, 10 June 2015 22:06
So how is that "thinking for yourself" going for you???
It does not matter, as far as Kangaroo court, can you name a better system?? You Serbs keep saying everything needs to be decided on Kosovo in the UNSC, even claiming that it should be the UNSC that forms a special court, however, you turn around and call the ICTY a Kangaroo court when it is set up by the very same people and employ the same judges as any other court appointed by them would.
But you note that these claims come from Serbs yes even Serbs in the west predominantly, and who has been found guilty more by the court, do I even need to say it?
You take every criminal in the world and the vast majority will claim they could not get a fair trial due to the corrupt court. Notice a trend?
For me it is decided. I do not buy into the hypocrisy of Serbia. It is the common denominator in all the wars in the FRY and yes there were crimes by all sides but biggest, the most heinous of them are documented as being committed by Serbs.
But you have my sympathy it is hard to admit your people are such.
One thing is for sure. If the US says it's genocide then ICJ will say it too and the rest of dhimmis in the west.
Has anyone classified anything the US did as genocide so far? Anyone remember Japan? What exactly was that? How about Rwanda? Armenia is another example which hasn't had all agree that it was genocide but Srebrenica, well, that has to be genocide or the west looses credibility. How else are they going to explain the relentless bombing? Medak Pocket where everything was destroyed including the animals was not an attempt to erase everything Serbian? What is the term for genocide again? Serbs did not attempt to kill all Muslims in Srebrenica. Croats actually succeed in killing all from Medak Pocket including the animals. If you are going to use intent as a tool to measure then this tool is very blunt in western hands. Let's not even mention Krajina. How many were allowed to stay there? The civilians were even bombed as they tried to flee. What did the Croatians have in mind then?
I am not saying that these events should be classifed as genocide but if we use the same yardstick then they qualify just as much as Srebrenica does.
Dacic misses the point as usual. First Serbia promoted genocide in Croatia, then in Bosnia, finally in Kosova until they were bombed for 78 days! They have yet to take responsibility for any of it - all they do is deny or relativize, or both.
All of this indicates that they are more than able and willing to do it all over again.
And we continue to dig up and exhume the mass graves every day. So sick.
"That debate took place in the International Court of Justice, both sides were give adequate time and able to present experts to debate the question. No debate you could possible devise would override that ruling. It ruled that Srebrenica was a genocide. "
It's true that ICJ examined issue of genocide in Bosnia (as alleged in Bosnian lawsuit) and deliberated that none happened except in Srebrenica. But, they never examined Srebrenica, due to already existing ruling by Hague Tribunal (different then ICJ) stating that what happened in Srebrenica was a genocide.
However, work of this Tribunal (often called kangaroo court even in the West) was more then questionable.
To you, that's decided. I guess, it was also decided (by Hague Tribunal) that not a single Croat crime against Serbs happened in Croatia, as this court never sentenced a single Croat for crimes in Croatia...
I, however, prefer to think for myself...
they think of Srebrenica as a solo act of 8000 Muslim men and boys being executed.
Another lie. The number of corpses found with ligatures or similar marks are in the hundreds at the most. Not even the ICTY claims that 8,000 muslim men and boys were executed apart from along with those idiots who claim they were civilians.
""We expect the world to treat the crimes committed against Serbs in the same way,” the Serbian foreign minister underlined. "
It's never going to happen. UK, USA and all of the West is deeply supremacist.
There are, basically, 2 views - on is of equality, the other one of supremacy.
West formally adheres to equality...(French Revolution - "Liberté, égalité, fraternité", notice EGALITE...American revolution - "We believe that all people are created equal..." )
However, in practice, it was somewhat different. George Washington was a major slave owner all his life. In fact, in 1791 as President he authorized emergency financial and military relief to French slave owners in Haiti to suppress a slave rebellion.
So, EGALITE, wasn't for all, and not all were created equal...
Some had a black skin, for example.
Hitler believed that German were above all, etc. etc.
It's the view that persist in the West to this day. Not long ago McCain rambled about American exceptionallity...
Same was in Yugoslavia - Badinter commission (leading EU legal experts lead by 5 presidents of consitutional courts of France, Germany, Italy, Spain and Belgium) declared that separation from republics of former Yugoslavia is illegal, yet those same countries recognized later Kosovo.
If EU don't respect it's own legal expert, why should anyone?
Anyway, Albanian can separate, but Serbs in Bosnia, for example, cannot.
It's discrimination. Simple.
"... ES: But what about the thousands who were listed as soldiers, but were in fact civilians? In the case of Srebrenica, for example, thousands were listed as soldiers, since that was the only way for their families to survive, given that the state did not have the means to look after civilians. How are these dead classified?
MT: It is not part of my task to separate them out. If the state reports them as soldiers, then we classify them as military casualties. I too have evidence that not all of them were active soldiers. If, say, I have three sources, one of which is official, and if the official source insists that the dead person was a soldier, then what can I do? This is a problem for the state to solve. Back in 1995, immediately after Srebrenica, I drew the attention of certain officials to this problem. For many families, the fact that one of its members was officially a soldier in the Army of Bosnia-Hercegovina was a matter of sheer survival. .."
The article goes out of its way to make excuses and try and make out that there is not actual distinction between 'civilians' & 'men and boys', but the ICTY can't even fake that in law.
Our politicians belong to a bygone Milosevic area with just enough hypocrisy to to look good to our European partners. Time for Serbia to bring o power the young generation.
The only way to bring attention to our dead, is by fully recognizing the genocide that took place in Srebrenica. ICT found that genocide was committed, so end of story.
I am tired of this line of defense we have, yes we massacred some people but so did the others... The truth is in this statement from UN, but I am sure they we know better:
" All parties involved in the conflict have committed «grave breaches» of the Geneva Conventions and other violations of international humanitarian law. These violations include the killing of civilians, rape torture, and the deliberate destruction of civilian property, including cultural and religious property, such as churches and mosques. But, there are significant qualitative differences. Most of the violations were committed by Serbs against Bosnian Muslims.[7]"
— Final report of the United Nations Commission of Experts
(Ari Gold, 10 June 2015 17:16)
This is really tough, do we believe international agencies, court recordings and eyewitness testimony or do we believe a weasel like Ari?
You say only half that many bodies have been found but actually over 6500 have been found and IDENTIFIED, however, one fact that is irrefutable is Serbs are ingenious at hiding corpses, look at all the mass graves and in the rivers where bodies have been found and the lengths the Serbs have gone to hide those graves.
Actually, I think a discussion is a good idea, people have forgotten the horrors, they think of Srebrenica as a solo act of 8000 Muslim men and boys being executed. They have forgotten about the other murders of women and children the almost total starvation of the nonSerbs, the brutality, the rapes, and rapes and more rapes. Maybe it is time to put the Serbian face back in the light it should be.
The world should know the potential horrors that a strong Serbia is capable of, how it might be wise for countries to expel the war criminals from their lands.
Genocide is political. If you can't be bothered to recognize 1.5 million Armenians, how can you recognize Srebrenica where 8,000 is claimed, but only half that number of bodies have ever been found. Plus everyone agrees that all those who were killed were men of fighting age and that's because they were fighting for the Bosnian army. Excusable? No. Genocide like 6mil Jews or 500, 000 in Rwanda? NO.
Russia and China will probably veto it anyway. But what a great idea to drive wedges in between communities of a country that is already very divided. You think reconciliation can happen on these terms? When we now know what really happened in Bosnia?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEUU0p3Gpmo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnALEecbZ-k
https://theremustbejustice.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/semsudin.jpg?w=594&h=412
https://theremustbejustice.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/mudzahedinizlocini.jpg
This happened in the WWI with Albanians, Hungarians.
This happened in the 1990 - 1999, with Croats, Bosnians, Albanians.
Serbs have no "limits"...
Why guys is more easy for you to kill than to ask forgiveness ?
Those are your actions!
Then, be "men" when you really should be, if you are so "courageous".
I believe the decision was wrong, as do many countries, but an open debate would be welcome. I guess the right of appeal doesn't exist, but it was a political decision.
In the cold light of day and with passions somewhat reduced. What harm in a frank discussion about what happened during those fateful days and months. The way the evidence has been collected and analysed on its own would demand the decision be thrown out. Not to mention the obvious, that it was male combatants who were killed, which makes genocide ruling impossible to sustain.
Oh jeff always trying to paint the civilians you killed as "captured combatants". Just because the serb "civilians" that were killed were combatants doesn't mean all of the "enemies" you killed were. Your enemies simply have more honor than you.
An open and frank debate about what happened and the context in which it happened would be very helpful, for all sides.
(Jeff, 10 June 2015 12:17)
# Comment link
That debate took place in the International Court of Justice, both sides were give adequate time and able to present experts to debate the question. No debate you could possible devise would override that ruling. It ruled that Srebrenica was a genocide.
Now as a Serb you can whine and deny all you want but to the world it has been decided.
I can see Dacic's concern as the world also knows that the genocide was committed by Serbs even though the court ruled that Serbia was not directly responsible.
I also love the title to the article of where Dacic "expects a reply" as if anyone seriously considers Serbia in a position to "expect" anything from anyone much less the UK.
The resolution will NOT generate an educated debate. There may be some supporters of Serbia, but don't expect much. There may be political statements but no debate.
LOL Dacic! That's quite a collection of British knives in his back but he still does nothing. Case in point - the British sponsored youth organization NGO that 'invited' Thaci was a blatantly political act that clearly violated the referential terms of what an Non-Governmental Organization should be doing. Did Dacic shut it down forthwith? No.
What more proof do people need that these NGOs are mostly fronts for Western foreign policy.
I'll be passing through the region again soon, so I'll keep an eye out. Tiny Tuzi in Montengro had at least three on the main drag a few years ago. You couldn't miss them, so there were probably more.
This opportunity the Brits are giving us to revisit what happened at srebrenica. At least our side of the story could be heard in the international media. A terrible war crime was committed, namely execution of captured combatants, but genocide?
Of course as soon as one questions the established narrative, you are shot shot down as a genocide denier. An open and frank debate about what happened and the context in which it happened would be very helpful, for all sides.
Auschwitz and Jasenovac were part of the Holocaust. There are already several Holocaust Memorial Days internationally. The main date is 27 January, however in Serbia, Holocaust Remembrance Day is on 22 April which is the date in 1945 when prisoners in Jasenovac revolted and it was abandoned.
They'd do well to remember what they did in the concentration camps and declare the date of the liberation of Auschwitz an international day or maybe the date of the dropping of atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. These are legitimate cases of genocide not like Srebrenica, where a war crime took place but that was not a genocide. There are places in Bosnia that can lay claim to that, namely Jasenovac, but the international community have ignored that for over 70 years, and continues to do so. Interesting this hypocrisy,isn't it????
They'd do well to remember what they did in the concentration camps and declare the date of the liberation of Auschwitz an international day or maybe the date of the dropping of atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. These are legitimate cases of genocide not like Srebrenica, where a war crime took place but that was not a genocide. There are places in Bosnia that can lay claim to that, namely Jasenovac, but the international community have ignored that for over 70 years, and continues to do so. Interesting this hypocrisy,isn't it????
(Ari Gold, 10 June 2015 17:16)
This is really tough, do we believe international agencies, court recordings and eyewitness testimony or do we believe a weasel like Ari?
You say only half that many bodies have been found but actually over 6500 have been found and IDENTIFIED, however, one fact that is irrefutable is Serbs are ingenious at hiding corpses, look at all the mass graves and in the rivers where bodies have been found and the lengths the Serbs have gone to hide those graves.
Actually, I think a discussion is a good idea, people have forgotten the horrors, they think of Srebrenica as a solo act of 8000 Muslim men and boys being executed. They have forgotten about the other murders of women and children the almost total starvation of the nonSerbs, the brutality, the rapes, and rapes and more rapes. Maybe it is time to put the Serbian face back in the light it should be.
The world should know the potential horrors that a strong Serbia is capable of, how it might be wise for countries to expel the war criminals from their lands.
This opportunity the Brits are giving us to revisit what happened at srebrenica. At least our side of the story could be heard in the international media. A terrible war crime was committed, namely execution of captured combatants, but genocide?
Of course as soon as one questions the established narrative, you are shot shot down as a genocide denier. An open and frank debate about what happened and the context in which it happened would be very helpful, for all sides.
This happened in the WWI with Albanians, Hungarians.
This happened in the 1990 - 1999, with Croats, Bosnians, Albanians.
Serbs have no "limits"...
Why guys is more easy for you to kill than to ask forgiveness ?
Those are your actions!
Then, be "men" when you really should be, if you are so "courageous".
Genocide is political. If you can't be bothered to recognize 1.5 million Armenians, how can you recognize Srebrenica where 8,000 is claimed, but only half that number of bodies have ever been found. Plus everyone agrees that all those who were killed were men of fighting age and that's because they were fighting for the Bosnian army. Excusable? No. Genocide like 6mil Jews or 500, 000 in Rwanda? NO.
Russia and China will probably veto it anyway. But what a great idea to drive wedges in between communities of a country that is already very divided. You think reconciliation can happen on these terms? When we now know what really happened in Bosnia?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEUU0p3Gpmo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnALEecbZ-k
https://theremustbejustice.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/semsudin.jpg?w=594&h=412
https://theremustbejustice.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/mudzahedinizlocini.jpg
I believe the decision was wrong, as do many countries, but an open debate would be welcome. I guess the right of appeal doesn't exist, but it was a political decision.
In the cold light of day and with passions somewhat reduced. What harm in a frank discussion about what happened during those fateful days and months. The way the evidence has been collected and analysed on its own would demand the decision be thrown out. Not to mention the obvious, that it was male combatants who were killed, which makes genocide ruling impossible to sustain.
Dacic misses the point as usual. First Serbia promoted genocide in Croatia, then in Bosnia, finally in Kosova until they were bombed for 78 days! They have yet to take responsibility for any of it - all they do is deny or relativize, or both.
All of this indicates that they are more than able and willing to do it all over again.
And we continue to dig up and exhume the mass graves every day. So sick.
An open and frank debate about what happened and the context in which it happened would be very helpful, for all sides.
(Jeff, 10 June 2015 12:17)
# Comment link
That debate took place in the International Court of Justice, both sides were give adequate time and able to present experts to debate the question. No debate you could possible devise would override that ruling. It ruled that Srebrenica was a genocide.
Now as a Serb you can whine and deny all you want but to the world it has been decided.
I can see Dacic's concern as the world also knows that the genocide was committed by Serbs even though the court ruled that Serbia was not directly responsible.
I also love the title to the article of where Dacic "expects a reply" as if anyone seriously considers Serbia in a position to "expect" anything from anyone much less the UK.
The resolution will NOT generate an educated debate. There may be some supporters of Serbia, but don't expect much. There may be political statements but no debate.
"A terrible war crime was committed, namely execution of captured combatants, but genocide? "
(Jeff, 10 June 2015 12:17)
Not exactly. More like the planned deportation and execution of all males (youngest victim was 13, oldest 78, as far as I remember) who have sought shelter in an UN protection zone. I always thought combatants are killed in a battle, as the name suggests.
LOL Dacic! That's quite a collection of British knives in his back but he still does nothing. Case in point - the British sponsored youth organization NGO that 'invited' Thaci was a blatantly political act that clearly violated the referential terms of what an Non-Governmental Organization should be doing. Did Dacic shut it down forthwith? No.
What more proof do people need that these NGOs are mostly fronts for Western foreign policy.
I'll be passing through the region again soon, so I'll keep an eye out. Tiny Tuzi in Montengro had at least three on the main drag a few years ago. You couldn't miss them, so there were probably more.
"That debate took place in the International Court of Justice, both sides were give adequate time and able to present experts to debate the question. No debate you could possible devise would override that ruling. It ruled that Srebrenica was a genocide. "
It's true that ICJ examined issue of genocide in Bosnia (as alleged in Bosnian lawsuit) and deliberated that none happened except in Srebrenica. But, they never examined Srebrenica, due to already existing ruling by Hague Tribunal (different then ICJ) stating that what happened in Srebrenica was a genocide.
However, work of this Tribunal (often called kangaroo court even in the West) was more then questionable.
To you, that's decided. I guess, it was also decided (by Hague Tribunal) that not a single Croat crime against Serbs happened in Croatia, as this court never sentenced a single Croat for crimes in Croatia...
I, however, prefer to think for myself...
Oh jeff always trying to paint the civilians you killed as "captured combatants". Just because the serb "civilians" that were killed were combatants doesn't mean all of the "enemies" you killed were. Your enemies simply have more honor than you.
""We expect the world to treat the crimes committed against Serbs in the same way,” the Serbian foreign minister underlined. "
It's never going to happen. UK, USA and all of the West is deeply supremacist.
There are, basically, 2 views - on is of equality, the other one of supremacy.
West formally adheres to equality...(French Revolution - "Liberté, égalité, fraternité", notice EGALITE...American revolution - "We believe that all people are created equal..." )
However, in practice, it was somewhat different. George Washington was a major slave owner all his life. In fact, in 1791 as President he authorized emergency financial and military relief to French slave owners in Haiti to suppress a slave rebellion.
So, EGALITE, wasn't for all, and not all were created equal...
Some had a black skin, for example.
Hitler believed that German were above all, etc. etc.
It's the view that persist in the West to this day. Not long ago McCain rambled about American exceptionallity...
Same was in Yugoslavia - Badinter commission (leading EU legal experts lead by 5 presidents of consitutional courts of France, Germany, Italy, Spain and Belgium) declared that separation from republics of former Yugoslavia is illegal, yet those same countries recognized later Kosovo.
If EU don't respect it's own legal expert, why should anyone?
Anyway, Albanian can separate, but Serbs in Bosnia, for example, cannot.
It's discrimination. Simple.
Auschwitz and Jasenovac were part of the Holocaust. There are already several Holocaust Memorial Days internationally. The main date is 27 January, however in Serbia, Holocaust Remembrance Day is on 22 April which is the date in 1945 when prisoners in Jasenovac revolted and it was abandoned.
Maybe, you are out of order. To peddle this sole victim schtick for so long is boring everybody. Everyone suffered. Serbs as much as anyone.
(Jeff, 10 June 2015 22:23)
Don't think it is boring to everyone!! But yes everyone suffered, due to Serbs, and the Serbs suffered due to reciprocation of what they were doing to others.
If you hit me and then I hit you back, does anyone owe you sympathy?
That is why it is hard to have sympathy for a bus load of Serbs traveling through Kosovo and a frail woman who lost her husband and sons to the very vermin on it, throws stones at it
You and your peers seem to think they are equal to each other. You murder, rape and brutalize and then whine because someone turns a tombstone over that you have not even seen in 15 years.
I look forward to your debate and see how Serbs are branded once again in the public arena as heinous monsters that was willing to kill anyone that was not a Serb.
So the hundreds of thousands of families in the Balkans who have faced much misery at your very hands do not think I am boring!!
It is time to accept responsibility for all the suffering you caused to everyone else and your own people.
"The paper added the resolution would state that the Srebrenica crime was an act of genocide, and Serbia would not be accused directly, but would in some manner be brought in connection with the crimes, together with the RS."
Where's the problem? The ICJ ruled the same, that the Srebrenica massacre, the worst massacre on Euroepan soil after WW2, and already downplayed as a 'crime' above, WAS a genocide. And well, of course the RS will be brought in the connection. Remember, Radko Mladic who orchestrated the mass deportation and execution, was the leading general of the VRS, the predecessor of the RS.
Would be only good if Serbia would stop the denial and refusal to attend the commemoration. Take an example on Germany, they don't demand any time to honor the millions of Germans killed when commemorating the holocaust.
Leave it up to an article on Srebrenica to make roberto crawl out of wherever he hides the rest of the time to once again give the impression he knows anything about the Balkans from his place in the US. If there ever was proof that a political initiative is behind attempts to label Srebrenica as "genocide", it's his transparent keyboard humanitarianism.
Keep it up frisco, you're little more than a digital joke around here.
Our politicians belong to a bygone Milosevic area with just enough hypocrisy to to look good to our European partners. Time for Serbia to bring o power the young generation.
The only way to bring attention to our dead, is by fully recognizing the genocide that took place in Srebrenica. ICT found that genocide was committed, so end of story.
I am tired of this line of defense we have, yes we massacred some people but so did the others... The truth is in this statement from UN, but I am sure they we know better:
" All parties involved in the conflict have committed «grave breaches» of the Geneva Conventions and other violations of international humanitarian law. These violations include the killing of civilians, rape torture, and the deliberate destruction of civilian property, including cultural and religious property, such as churches and mosques. But, there are significant qualitative differences. Most of the violations were committed by Serbs against Bosnian Muslims.[7]"
— Final report of the United Nations Commission of Experts
they think of Srebrenica as a solo act of 8000 Muslim men and boys being executed.
Another lie. The number of corpses found with ligatures or similar marks are in the hundreds at the most. Not even the ICTY claims that 8,000 muslim men and boys were executed apart from along with those idiots who claim they were civilians.
However, work of this Tribunal (often called kangaroo court even in the West) was more then questionable.
To you, that's decided. I guess, it was also decided (by Hague Tribunal) that not a single Croat crime against Serbs happened in Croatia, as this court never sentenced a single Croat for crimes in Croatia...
I, however, prefer to think for myself...
(Sreten, 10 June 2015 22:06
So how is that "thinking for yourself" going for you???
It does not matter, as far as Kangaroo court, can you name a better system?? You Serbs keep saying everything needs to be decided on Kosovo in the UNSC, even claiming that it should be the UNSC that forms a special court, however, you turn around and call the ICTY a Kangaroo court when it is set up by the very same people and employ the same judges as any other court appointed by them would.
But you note that these claims come from Serbs yes even Serbs in the west predominantly, and who has been found guilty more by the court, do I even need to say it?
You take every criminal in the world and the vast majority will claim they could not get a fair trial due to the corrupt court. Notice a trend?
For me it is decided. I do not buy into the hypocrisy of Serbia. It is the common denominator in all the wars in the FRY and yes there were crimes by all sides but biggest, the most heinous of them are documented as being committed by Serbs.
But you have my sympathy it is hard to admit your people are such.
I say you're a hate-monger and a racist.
(Roger7, 11 June 2015 13:15)
Of course you would, you have that same tainted DNA. Just like children born to criminal parents throughout the world a person can break free and be a honest, moral caring person. But the people on here, you included, do not seem to possess that desire.
(Be Honest, 10 June 2015 22:01)
What kind of moniker is that, you obviously have no idea what honesty is and from my viewpoint share as much guilt as those you defend.
When I saw the video of Trnovo, it finally hit home what a callous, group of people you are and I say 78 days should have only been the beginning. The only thing left in Belgrade should today be a memorial to those who died at your hands and a big empty pit. Serbia should have been divided up like Austria following WW2 with someone controlling each sector. There is no way that Serbia should have been left intact without Kosovo, to rebuild their empire of evil. From the post on here from those who share your blood I say there are no redeeming qualities in the Serbian DNA.
"... ES: But what about the thousands who were listed as soldiers, but were in fact civilians? In the case of Srebrenica, for example, thousands were listed as soldiers, since that was the only way for their families to survive, given that the state did not have the means to look after civilians. How are these dead classified?
MT: It is not part of my task to separate them out. If the state reports them as soldiers, then we classify them as military casualties. I too have evidence that not all of them were active soldiers. If, say, I have three sources, one of which is official, and if the official source insists that the dead person was a soldier, then what can I do? This is a problem for the state to solve. Back in 1995, immediately after Srebrenica, I drew the attention of certain officials to this problem. For many families, the fact that one of its members was officially a soldier in the Army of Bosnia-Hercegovina was a matter of sheer survival. .."
The article goes out of its way to make excuses and try and make out that there is not actual distinction between 'civilians' & 'men and boys', but the ICTY can't even fake that in law.
One thing is for sure. If the US says it's genocide then ICJ will say it too and the rest of dhimmis in the west.
Has anyone classified anything the US did as genocide so far? Anyone remember Japan? What exactly was that? How about Rwanda? Armenia is another example which hasn't had all agree that it was genocide but Srebrenica, well, that has to be genocide or the west looses credibility. How else are they going to explain the relentless bombing? Medak Pocket where everything was destroyed including the animals was not an attempt to erase everything Serbian? What is the term for genocide again? Serbs did not attempt to kill all Muslims in Srebrenica. Croats actually succeed in killing all from Medak Pocket including the animals. If you are going to use intent as a tool to measure then this tool is very blunt in western hands. Let's not even mention Krajina. How many were allowed to stay there? The civilians were even bombed as they tried to flee. What did the Croatians have in mind then?
I am not saying that these events should be classifed as genocide but if we use the same yardstick then they qualify just as much as Srebrenica does.
Genocide, to put it simply, is attempt to physically destroy, exterminate, ethnic or religious group. Example, Jews in WW2.
In part , or in whole.
Example, Turks did not attempt (successfully) destruction of all Armenians, only of ones living in Turkey.
Those who say Srebrenica was genocide, thus claim that Serbs attempted destruction of Srebrenica Muslims - their physical destruction, "the end" of this ethic group.
If this was their intent they did a very poor job, as they allowed women and children to leave - very groups that assure Srebrenica Muslim survival and reproduction.
Study in Bosnia have shown that Srebrenica women despite loosing their husbands have same reproductive rate (child per woman) as others in Bosnia.
Sure there were relocated from Srebrenica which can be called "ethnic cleansing" not genocide, as it's not same as actual physical destruction.
For those interested in Srebrenica there is an hour long documentary made in Norway, by Norwegian director, and shown in Norway and Sweden in 2011. It's in English.
Radko Mladic who orchestrated the mass deportation and execution, was the leading general of the VRS, the predecessor of the RS.
Would be only good if Serbia would stop the denial and refusal to attend the commemoration. Take an example on Germany, they don't demand any time to honor the millions of Germans killed when commemorating the holocaust.
(Comm. Parrisson, 11 June 2015 09:57) # Comment link
Who orchestrated the mass deportation and execution of Serbs from Sarajevo and why is that not as important as Bosnian Muslims? You look at ICTY rulings as a source of partiality? The Holocaust was one sided violence, the Jews were not fighting Germany. Bosnian Muslims were fighting to dominate Serbs in RS. My God, you're as brainwashed and indoctrinated by the leftist NGO's in Belgrade as the previous generations were with communism.
BTW my long deceased American born parents had no criminal records and father was a decorated US army Veteran of WWII.
Have a good day (_._)
(Roger7, 11 June 2015 21:33)
You should be ashamed to dishonor him by supporting all that he opposed in the war. Some times good parents produce evil children, it is a fact that is unexplainable, that is if one chooses to believe your story.
They'd do well to remember what they did in the concentration camps and declare the date of the liberation of Auschwitz an international day or maybe the date of the dropping of atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. These are legitimate cases of genocide not like Srebrenica, where a war crime took place but that was not a genocide. There are places in Bosnia that can lay claim to that, namely Jasenovac, but the international community have ignored that for over 70 years, and continues to do so. Interesting this hypocrisy,isn't it????
An open and frank debate about what happened and the context in which it happened would be very helpful, for all sides.
(Jeff, 10 June 2015 12:17)
# Comment link
That debate took place in the International Court of Justice, both sides were give adequate time and able to present experts to debate the question. No debate you could possible devise would override that ruling. It ruled that Srebrenica was a genocide.
Now as a Serb you can whine and deny all you want but to the world it has been decided.
I can see Dacic's concern as the world also knows that the genocide was committed by Serbs even though the court ruled that Serbia was not directly responsible.
I also love the title to the article of where Dacic "expects a reply" as if anyone seriously considers Serbia in a position to "expect" anything from anyone much less the UK.
The resolution will NOT generate an educated debate. There may be some supporters of Serbia, but don't expect much. There may be political statements but no debate.
Oh jeff always trying to paint the civilians you killed as "captured combatants". Just because the serb "civilians" that were killed were combatants doesn't mean all of the "enemies" you killed were. Your enemies simply have more honor than you.
Genocide is political. If you can't be bothered to recognize 1.5 million Armenians, how can you recognize Srebrenica where 8,000 is claimed, but only half that number of bodies have ever been found. Plus everyone agrees that all those who were killed were men of fighting age and that's because they were fighting for the Bosnian army. Excusable? No. Genocide like 6mil Jews or 500, 000 in Rwanda? NO.
Russia and China will probably veto it anyway. But what a great idea to drive wedges in between communities of a country that is already very divided. You think reconciliation can happen on these terms? When we now know what really happened in Bosnia?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEUU0p3Gpmo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnALEecbZ-k
https://theremustbejustice.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/semsudin.jpg?w=594&h=412
https://theremustbejustice.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/mudzahedinizlocini.jpg
(Ari Gold, 10 June 2015 17:16)
This is really tough, do we believe international agencies, court recordings and eyewitness testimony or do we believe a weasel like Ari?
You say only half that many bodies have been found but actually over 6500 have been found and IDENTIFIED, however, one fact that is irrefutable is Serbs are ingenious at hiding corpses, look at all the mass graves and in the rivers where bodies have been found and the lengths the Serbs have gone to hide those graves.
Actually, I think a discussion is a good idea, people have forgotten the horrors, they think of Srebrenica as a solo act of 8000 Muslim men and boys being executed. They have forgotten about the other murders of women and children the almost total starvation of the nonSerbs, the brutality, the rapes, and rapes and more rapes. Maybe it is time to put the Serbian face back in the light it should be.
The world should know the potential horrors that a strong Serbia is capable of, how it might be wise for countries to expel the war criminals from their lands.
This opportunity the Brits are giving us to revisit what happened at srebrenica. At least our side of the story could be heard in the international media. A terrible war crime was committed, namely execution of captured combatants, but genocide?
Of course as soon as one questions the established narrative, you are shot shot down as a genocide denier. An open and frank debate about what happened and the context in which it happened would be very helpful, for all sides.
This happened in the WWI with Albanians, Hungarians.
This happened in the 1990 - 1999, with Croats, Bosnians, Albanians.
Serbs have no "limits"...
Why guys is more easy for you to kill than to ask forgiveness ?
Those are your actions!
Then, be "men" when you really should be, if you are so "courageous".
Dacic misses the point as usual. First Serbia promoted genocide in Croatia, then in Bosnia, finally in Kosova until they were bombed for 78 days! They have yet to take responsibility for any of it - all they do is deny or relativize, or both.
All of this indicates that they are more than able and willing to do it all over again.
And we continue to dig up and exhume the mass graves every day. So sick.
One thing is for sure. If the US says it's genocide then ICJ will say it too and the rest of dhimmis in the west.
Has anyone classified anything the US did as genocide so far? Anyone remember Japan? What exactly was that? How about Rwanda? Armenia is another example which hasn't had all agree that it was genocide but Srebrenica, well, that has to be genocide or the west looses credibility. How else are they going to explain the relentless bombing? Medak Pocket where everything was destroyed including the animals was not an attempt to erase everything Serbian? What is the term for genocide again? Serbs did not attempt to kill all Muslims in Srebrenica. Croats actually succeed in killing all from Medak Pocket including the animals. If you are going to use intent as a tool to measure then this tool is very blunt in western hands. Let's not even mention Krajina. How many were allowed to stay there? The civilians were even bombed as they tried to flee. What did the Croatians have in mind then?
I am not saying that these events should be classifed as genocide but if we use the same yardstick then they qualify just as much as Srebrenica does.
Auschwitz and Jasenovac were part of the Holocaust. There are already several Holocaust Memorial Days internationally. The main date is 27 January, however in Serbia, Holocaust Remembrance Day is on 22 April which is the date in 1945 when prisoners in Jasenovac revolted and it was abandoned.
Leave it up to an article on Srebrenica to make roberto crawl out of wherever he hides the rest of the time to once again give the impression he knows anything about the Balkans from his place in the US. If there ever was proof that a political initiative is behind attempts to label Srebrenica as "genocide", it's his transparent keyboard humanitarianism.
Keep it up frisco, you're little more than a digital joke around here.
I believe the decision was wrong, as do many countries, but an open debate would be welcome. I guess the right of appeal doesn't exist, but it was a political decision.
In the cold light of day and with passions somewhat reduced. What harm in a frank discussion about what happened during those fateful days and months. The way the evidence has been collected and analysed on its own would demand the decision be thrown out. Not to mention the obvious, that it was male combatants who were killed, which makes genocide ruling impossible to sustain.
Radko Mladic who orchestrated the mass deportation and execution, was the leading general of the VRS, the predecessor of the RS.
Would be only good if Serbia would stop the denial and refusal to attend the commemoration. Take an example on Germany, they don't demand any time to honor the millions of Germans killed when commemorating the holocaust.
(Comm. Parrisson, 11 June 2015 09:57) # Comment link
Who orchestrated the mass deportation and execution of Serbs from Sarajevo and why is that not as important as Bosnian Muslims? You look at ICTY rulings as a source of partiality? The Holocaust was one sided violence, the Jews were not fighting Germany. Bosnian Muslims were fighting to dominate Serbs in RS. My God, you're as brainwashed and indoctrinated by the leftist NGO's in Belgrade as the previous generations were with communism.
they think of Srebrenica as a solo act of 8000 Muslim men and boys being executed.
Another lie. The number of corpses found with ligatures or similar marks are in the hundreds at the most. Not even the ICTY claims that 8,000 muslim men and boys were executed apart from along with those idiots who claim they were civilians.
LOL Dacic! That's quite a collection of British knives in his back but he still does nothing. Case in point - the British sponsored youth organization NGO that 'invited' Thaci was a blatantly political act that clearly violated the referential terms of what an Non-Governmental Organization should be doing. Did Dacic shut it down forthwith? No.
What more proof do people need that these NGOs are mostly fronts for Western foreign policy.
I'll be passing through the region again soon, so I'll keep an eye out. Tiny Tuzi in Montengro had at least three on the main drag a few years ago. You couldn't miss them, so there were probably more.
"That debate took place in the International Court of Justice, both sides were give adequate time and able to present experts to debate the question. No debate you could possible devise would override that ruling. It ruled that Srebrenica was a genocide. "
It's true that ICJ examined issue of genocide in Bosnia (as alleged in Bosnian lawsuit) and deliberated that none happened except in Srebrenica. But, they never examined Srebrenica, due to already existing ruling by Hague Tribunal (different then ICJ) stating that what happened in Srebrenica was a genocide.
However, work of this Tribunal (often called kangaroo court even in the West) was more then questionable.
To you, that's decided. I guess, it was also decided (by Hague Tribunal) that not a single Croat crime against Serbs happened in Croatia, as this court never sentenced a single Croat for crimes in Croatia...
I, however, prefer to think for myself...
Our politicians belong to a bygone Milosevic area with just enough hypocrisy to to look good to our European partners. Time for Serbia to bring o power the young generation.
The only way to bring attention to our dead, is by fully recognizing the genocide that took place in Srebrenica. ICT found that genocide was committed, so end of story.
I am tired of this line of defense we have, yes we massacred some people but so did the others... The truth is in this statement from UN, but I am sure they we know better:
" All parties involved in the conflict have committed «grave breaches» of the Geneva Conventions and other violations of international humanitarian law. These violations include the killing of civilians, rape torture, and the deliberate destruction of civilian property, including cultural and religious property, such as churches and mosques. But, there are significant qualitative differences. Most of the violations were committed by Serbs against Bosnian Muslims.[7]"
— Final report of the United Nations Commission of Experts
""We expect the world to treat the crimes committed against Serbs in the same way,” the Serbian foreign minister underlined. "
It's never going to happen. UK, USA and all of the West is deeply supremacist.
There are, basically, 2 views - on is of equality, the other one of supremacy.
West formally adheres to equality...(French Revolution - "Liberté, égalité, fraternité", notice EGALITE...American revolution - "We believe that all people are created equal..." )
However, in practice, it was somewhat different. George Washington was a major slave owner all his life. In fact, in 1791 as President he authorized emergency financial and military relief to French slave owners in Haiti to suppress a slave rebellion.
So, EGALITE, wasn't for all, and not all were created equal...
Some had a black skin, for example.
Hitler believed that German were above all, etc. etc.
It's the view that persist in the West to this day. Not long ago McCain rambled about American exceptionallity...
Same was in Yugoslavia - Badinter commission (leading EU legal experts lead by 5 presidents of consitutional courts of France, Germany, Italy, Spain and Belgium) declared that separation from republics of former Yugoslavia is illegal, yet those same countries recognized later Kosovo.
If EU don't respect it's own legal expert, why should anyone?
Anyway, Albanian can separate, but Serbs in Bosnia, for example, cannot.
It's discrimination. Simple.
BTW my long deceased American born parents had no criminal records and father was a decorated US army Veteran of WWII.
Have a good day (_._)
(Roger7, 11 June 2015 21:33)
You should be ashamed to dishonor him by supporting all that he opposed in the war. Some times good parents produce evil children, it is a fact that is unexplainable, that is if one chooses to believe your story.
"... ES: But what about the thousands who were listed as soldiers, but were in fact civilians? In the case of Srebrenica, for example, thousands were listed as soldiers, since that was the only way for their families to survive, given that the state did not have the means to look after civilians. How are these dead classified?
MT: It is not part of my task to separate them out. If the state reports them as soldiers, then we classify them as military casualties. I too have evidence that not all of them were active soldiers. If, say, I have three sources, one of which is official, and if the official source insists that the dead person was a soldier, then what can I do? This is a problem for the state to solve. Back in 1995, immediately after Srebrenica, I drew the attention of certain officials to this problem. For many families, the fact that one of its members was officially a soldier in the Army of Bosnia-Hercegovina was a matter of sheer survival. .."
The article goes out of its way to make excuses and try and make out that there is not actual distinction between 'civilians' & 'men and boys', but the ICTY can't even fake that in law.
(Be Honest, 10 June 2015 22:01)
What kind of moniker is that, you obviously have no idea what honesty is and from my viewpoint share as much guilt as those you defend.
When I saw the video of Trnovo, it finally hit home what a callous, group of people you are and I say 78 days should have only been the beginning. The only thing left in Belgrade should today be a memorial to those who died at your hands and a big empty pit. Serbia should have been divided up like Austria following WW2 with someone controlling each sector. There is no way that Serbia should have been left intact without Kosovo, to rebuild their empire of evil. From the post on here from those who share your blood I say there are no redeeming qualities in the Serbian DNA.
"The paper added the resolution would state that the Srebrenica crime was an act of genocide, and Serbia would not be accused directly, but would in some manner be brought in connection with the crimes, together with the RS."
Where's the problem? The ICJ ruled the same, that the Srebrenica massacre, the worst massacre on Euroepan soil after WW2, and already downplayed as a 'crime' above, WAS a genocide. And well, of course the RS will be brought in the connection. Remember, Radko Mladic who orchestrated the mass deportation and execution, was the leading general of the VRS, the predecessor of the RS.
Would be only good if Serbia would stop the denial and refusal to attend the commemoration. Take an example on Germany, they don't demand any time to honor the millions of Germans killed when commemorating the holocaust.
Genocide, to put it simply, is attempt to physically destroy, exterminate, ethnic or religious group. Example, Jews in WW2.
In part , or in whole.
Example, Turks did not attempt (successfully) destruction of all Armenians, only of ones living in Turkey.
Those who say Srebrenica was genocide, thus claim that Serbs attempted destruction of Srebrenica Muslims - their physical destruction, "the end" of this ethic group.
If this was their intent they did a very poor job, as they allowed women and children to leave - very groups that assure Srebrenica Muslim survival and reproduction.
Study in Bosnia have shown that Srebrenica women despite loosing their husbands have same reproductive rate (child per woman) as others in Bosnia.
Sure there were relocated from Srebrenica which can be called "ethnic cleansing" not genocide, as it's not same as actual physical destruction.
For those interested in Srebrenica there is an hour long documentary made in Norway, by Norwegian director, and shown in Norway and Sweden in 2011. It's in English.
I say you're a hate-monger and a racist.
(Roger7, 11 June 2015 13:15)
Of course you would, you have that same tainted DNA. Just like children born to criminal parents throughout the world a person can break free and be a honest, moral caring person. But the people on here, you included, do not seem to possess that desire.
However, work of this Tribunal (often called kangaroo court even in the West) was more then questionable.
To you, that's decided. I guess, it was also decided (by Hague Tribunal) that not a single Croat crime against Serbs happened in Croatia, as this court never sentenced a single Croat for crimes in Croatia...
I, however, prefer to think for myself...
(Sreten, 10 June 2015 22:06
So how is that "thinking for yourself" going for you???
It does not matter, as far as Kangaroo court, can you name a better system?? You Serbs keep saying everything needs to be decided on Kosovo in the UNSC, even claiming that it should be the UNSC that forms a special court, however, you turn around and call the ICTY a Kangaroo court when it is set up by the very same people and employ the same judges as any other court appointed by them would.
But you note that these claims come from Serbs yes even Serbs in the west predominantly, and who has been found guilty more by the court, do I even need to say it?
You take every criminal in the world and the vast majority will claim they could not get a fair trial due to the corrupt court. Notice a trend?
For me it is decided. I do not buy into the hypocrisy of Serbia. It is the common denominator in all the wars in the FRY and yes there were crimes by all sides but biggest, the most heinous of them are documented as being committed by Serbs.
But you have my sympathy it is hard to admit your people are such.
Maybe, you are out of order. To peddle this sole victim schtick for so long is boring everybody. Everyone suffered. Serbs as much as anyone.
(Jeff, 10 June 2015 22:23)
Don't think it is boring to everyone!! But yes everyone suffered, due to Serbs, and the Serbs suffered due to reciprocation of what they were doing to others.
If you hit me and then I hit you back, does anyone owe you sympathy?
That is why it is hard to have sympathy for a bus load of Serbs traveling through Kosovo and a frail woman who lost her husband and sons to the very vermin on it, throws stones at it
You and your peers seem to think they are equal to each other. You murder, rape and brutalize and then whine because someone turns a tombstone over that you have not even seen in 15 years.
I look forward to your debate and see how Serbs are branded once again in the public arena as heinous monsters that was willing to kill anyone that was not a Serb.
So the hundreds of thousands of families in the Balkans who have faced much misery at your very hands do not think I am boring!!
It is time to accept responsibility for all the suffering you caused to everyone else and your own people.
"A terrible war crime was committed, namely execution of captured combatants, but genocide? "
(Jeff, 10 June 2015 12:17)
Not exactly. More like the planned deportation and execution of all males (youngest victim was 13, oldest 78, as far as I remember) who have sought shelter in an UN protection zone. I always thought combatants are killed in a battle, as the name suggests.
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