"Bosnia to return to Dayton, or move toward RS independence"
Milorad Dodik thinks that Bosnia-Herzegovina will move either towards returning to the original Dayton agreement, or toward the independence of the RS.
From Pope: "In case you did not notice i already explained what will happen next, you simply resorted to your usual tactic of beating around the bush with propaganda."
No, I didn't notice, because you failed to explain your position...again. The difference between you and me is that I deal in facts and you deal in sensationalized headlines. You don't go beneath the surface to do the research. You rely on the distortions that came from your well-paid PR firms. Funny, you accuse me of using propaganda yet it was the Croats and Muslims who paid millions to US PR firms. You still haven't answered my question as to whay they were used if the Croats and Muslims were in the right.
Come back when you have some verifiable facts to discuss instead of your emotional diatribes.
In case you did not notice i already explained what will happen next, you simply resorted to your usual tactic of beating around the bush with propaganda.
Pope - You haven't addressed any of the facts that I presented to you. Why? Is it because they are 'facts' and you can't deal with that? You would rather regurgitate the spoon-fed propaganda nonsense about the fictitious notion of 'Greater Serbia' that your well-paid PR firms created for the western press. Remember that Pope? Please tell me why the Croats and Muslims paid millions of dollars to US PR firms if you were in the right? Shouldn't the truth prevail? Why the need for PR firms to distort the truth?
These are more facts Pope. I'm sure you'll run away from these facts too as you've previously done. I'm still waiting for you to tell me what is going to happen next in Bosnia. Can't wait for your answer.
Serbs are in no position to talk anout ethnic cleansing, as that is the only thing many people know you for. As for what happens next, no doubt many think like you, you will start another war in hopes that you will get something that does not belong to you and get away with it. But just remember, you no langer have the yugo army which was a world power, and you no longer have completely defenseless enemies.
Pope - Your comments get more absurd the more you pound away at your computer. The hostilities began after Franjo Tudjman was elected. Serbs were fired from their jobs, their property was vandalized and many were murdered. Ustasha war criminals were invited back to Croatia and streets were named after them. This was long before any JNA troops arrived. But according to you, Serbs should have just accepted it.
And regarding Mostar, 20,000 Serbs lived there before the war. Today there are none. They were ethnically cleansed during the early stages of the war.
Pope - you tell me to pay attention to what happens next in Bosnia. Please tell me, please. We both know the next thing that will happen is that the fragile federation will dissolve and RS will be another step closer to unifying with Serbia. Face it Pope, the west is growing tired of keeping the federation on life support. The experiment has failed. Time to pull the plug. The RS is laughing at you.
Really no hostilities began? What about serb attacks on ravno and mostar? this was before the war or independence was even declared. The seebs had a goal and we all know very well what that was "greater serbia" after failing against a poorly armed opposition you tried
To say you were defending yourselves. Yoy do not defend yourself by attacking unarmed people. It is funny how the rhetoric changed drastically from the beginning of the war to the end. You have tried many times to destroy Bosnia but will always fail. Pay attention to what happens next.
From Pope F: "rs is a genocidal entity that will never acheive "independence" or unification."
Pope, no hostilities began until Croats and Muslims broke international law and tried to force Serbs to live in a hostile country with no say so whatsoever about their future. You can't break international law and the constitution of the country you live in and try to force a group of people to live by your standards and not expect some resistance. You underestimated what the consequences would be.
The Muslims, with the backing of the US, started the war and ironically became the biggest losers. You can try to blame the Serbs for starting the war all you want, but the facts point to something quite different. The Federation is on life support. Muslims hate the Croats and visa versa. Both live seperately within the federation. What a joke. Is this what the Muslims fought for? RS is not without its problems, but it is a functioning entity. It has even set up consulates in other countries. Every day they move toward independence or unification with Serbia. It is and always will be Serbian. This I know, burns people like you. Too bad. B-H was a bad experiment that is a total failure. When the west realizes that it will never be a viable state on its own and can only survive with western money, they will pull the plug. And then where will the Muslims of B-H be? The Croats are almost all gone now. When the federation disintegrates, the Muslims will be a footnote in history.
Anctually njegos the serbs started the wars all 4 of them by trying to eat yugoslavia from the inside. And the serbs tried to create a greater Serbia because they knew their adversaries especially bosniaks were unarmed the embargo worked in favor of the serbs. and no rs is a genocidal entity that will never acheive "independence" or unification. If it did it will be destroyed the within a month anyway.
From iko: "If an ethnic group or cultural group in a country wishes independence from those surrounding them then they go to the country which offers that alignment not create civil unrest or violent assault upon the citizenry. To carve out by force, coercion or self declaration is provocative and divisive."
Excuse mw iko, but your memory is very selective. What you describe above is exactly what the Croats and subsequently the Muslims did. They both broke international law and the Yugoslav constitution by prematurely seceding. They knew there would be war and they armed themselves to the teeth, again breaking international law by skirting the arms embargo. Before any hostilities in Bosnia broke out, Karadzic proposed dividing the country into ethnic cantons. Izetbegovic, at the urging of Warren Zimmerman, rejected Karadzic because Zimmerman convinced him he would be the president of a unified Bosnia. So they went to war. We all know the results.
Serbs lost a lot in the wars of the 90s, but they fared much better than their adversaries in B-H. Today, they make up 31% of the population and control 49% of the territory. Rupublika Srpska is the only functioning part of B-H. One day they will unify with Serbia. Get used to it. When you start a war, as the Croats and Muslims did, you better be prepared to accept the results. Oh, and brush up on your history.
If other countries allowed the same divisive attitude of RS politicians then the world will be engulfed in continuous upheaval as each division holds within it subdivisions of other minority groupings and so on. There are ways to organise a civilized society that doesn’t involve apartheid or ethic cleansing or the arrogance of cultural separateness. Time to state what are the essential needs of the people: rule of law, equal opportunities, separation of powers – religious from secular, ethnicity from political gerrymandering, respect and recognition of cultural needs. Enough disruption- there is more in common than divides so build the future not undermine the present or reinvent the past.W62LTC
(iko, 9 June 2015 15:16
=================================
Where were you when Yugoslavia was being ripped apart by force and then Serbia?
I was in BiH for ten years and again recently and there is no indication that Bosniak politicians are trying to move away from Dayton. They are too busy trying to hold together both national and Federation level coalitions.
(ned taylor, 9 June 2015 13:08)
The SDA party led by Bakir Izetbegovic recently held an election rally where they talked about removal of RS as an entity and reorganization of Bosnia into 5 Muslim majority regions. Do they mean it? Probably just posturing. But threatening rhetoric nonetheless.
It's ironic that in the 1990s Dayton looked like a capitulation for Serbs. And now they are the only ones that are insisting on its original letter. Kind of like the Brussels agreement. They never read the fine print
If an ethnic group or cultural group in a country wishes independence from those surrounding them then they go to the country which offers that alignment not create civil unrest or violent assault upon the citizenry. To carve out by force, coercion or self declaration is provocative and divisive.
Bosnian Orthodox citizens with affinity to Serbian cultural practices are just that, not citizens of Serbia nor bred into the everyday geopolitical realities of being born and bred into that environment. They are mostly ( allowing for the influx of Croatian/Serb refugees and the forced migration of war affected casualties) historically and socially products of BiH.
If other countries allowed the same divisive attitude of RS politicians then the world will be engulfed in continuous upheaval as each division holds within it subdivisions of other minority groupings and so on. There are ways to organise a civilized society that doesn’t involve apartheid or ethic cleansing or the arrogance of cultural separateness. Time to state what are the essential needs of the people: rule of law, equal opportunities, separation of powers – religious from secular, ethnicity from political gerrymandering, respect and recognition of cultural needs. Enough disruption- there is more in common than divides so build the future not undermine the present or reinvent the past.W62LTC
This has been going on for years. Before the 2006 elections Dodik promised an independence referendum for the RS and yet 9 years later where is it? I was in BiH for ten years and again recently and there is no indication that Bosniak politicians are trying to move away from Dayton. They are too busy trying to hold together both national and Federation level coalitions. There will not be a referendum until Serbia supports it (which at present it certainly does not) and major powers state that they will accept the result. Holding a vote for its own sake will simply be a waste of RS taxpayers money, not the first such instance of this.
It's a fair point about Izetbegovic. He wrote about a state under Islamic principles and Sharia law is full of barbaric, medieval practices.
I don't think many Bosnian Muslims were interested in that, but if you go by Islamic law, you will end up with an IS or Ottoman Empire and the brutality that comes with it.
(Andy UK, 8 June 2015 15:0
==============================
That is exactly what the west wants. Proof is all around. The US has created ISIL and the Taliban and Boko Haram and the rest of the mess.
No system of government comes close to enslaving the masses like Islam does which is precisely why the US wants it everywhere. They think that they will be able to control the main Muftis and they in turn will control the population, much like what is happening in Islamic countries. One government for the entire world is the target here.
No wonder we are told to import as many Muslims as quickly as possible. Refugee crisis means we all have to take them in. Lebanon took Palestenian refugees in and look at it now. Europe is heading in the same direction and other western countries will in a couple of decades or so. Islam, perfect vehicle with which to control people.
Bosnia already has enough radicals to become Sharia ruled. Kosovo is also there. Macedonia and Montenegro are easy prey.
Dodik you are the leader of a terrorist entity, you are in no position to call someone else a terrorist. Your kind started 4 wars in the last 2 decades, and if there is another war it will be started by you.
When will Serbs take responsibility for what they did?
All I read is it's everyone else's fault except the "heavenly Serbs".
Serbs attacked 4 former states of Yugoslavia but those in denial blame others and not the most comment denominator of evil ,instability and direct threat to peace in the region and the world.
Serbs have a lot of growing up to do.
Ackowledge your actions,apologize and MOVE ON people!
The paprika salesman is at it again. Over the past 10 years, whenever Dodik wants attention, gain more votes or demand a pay rise, he starts to stir up an independence movement in RS. After a week you will see Dodik retract his statements and possibly attend the ceremony at Potocari and give a speech on how Mladic was a war criminal. Dodik has done this before time and time again and will never move towards indepdence because he knows his paycheques from the Vatican and Langley will stop, and My Paprika does not want to be broke!
If the Moslems now want to ditch the Agreement, then I suppose that is their privilege, but they can’t then say that the Serbs must accept Moslem-rule from Sarajevo. The Bosnian Serbs won’t accept that. If the Moslems, again supported by NATO, want to destroy everything built up over the past 20 years, then I suppose that is what is going to happen. Another war in Bosnia is in the offing.
(Michael Thomas, 8 June 2015 16:29) # Comment link
Michael,
Fantasizing won't help your cause since Serbia and its renegade cousins have been neutered long ago. Now they can neither fight nor reproduce. Furthermore, they are surrounded by NATO and can't even fart without permission from their masters. And remember, there is still room at the Hague for Dodik. Lastly, don't count on Putin, he can't even pay his own workers.
The Republika Srpska is one of two regions in Bosnia. The other, the Moslem-Croat Federation, is not superior to the Serb Republic and has no right to change the Bosnian status quo at will. The Bosnian Civil War started when Moslems, supported by conniving Croats, violated the Bosnian constitution and broke away from Yugoslavia. The Bosnian constitution said clearly and unambiguously that no constitutional changes were possible without the consent of the three constituent peoples of Bosnia. Bosnian Serbs did not give their consent to leaving Yugoslavia, but the Moslems and Croats told them to go to Hell because they had the support of NATO. Something similar is going on today. The Dayton Agreement was forced on the Bosnian Serbs by NATO bombs. The Agreement may have problems, but it has kept the peace for 20 years. If the Moslems now want to ditch the Agreement, then I suppose that is their privilege, but they can’t then say that the Serbs must accept Moslem-rule from Sarajevo. The Bosnian Serbs won’t accept that. If the Moslems, again supported by NATO, want to destroy everything built up over the past 20 years, then I suppose that is what is going to happen. Another war in Bosnia is in the offing. NATO and their American masters never tire of war. With Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya in ruins, and murderous warfare in Syria and Ukraine continuing one would hope for a respite from NATO’s murderous actions. But no, it looks like Bosnia is set to burn again.
It's a fair point about Izetbegovic. He wrote about a state under Islamic principles and Sharia law is full of barbaric, medieval practices.
I don't think many Bosnian Muslims were interested in that, but if you go by Islamic law, you will end up with an IS or Ottoman Empire and the brutality that comes with it.
It's a fair point about Izetbegovic. He wrote about a state under Islamic principles and Sharia law is full of barbaric, medieval practices.
I don't think many Bosnian Muslims were interested in that, but if you go by Islamic law, you will end up with an IS or Ottoman Empire and the brutality that comes with it.
The Republika Srpska is one of two regions in Bosnia. The other, the Moslem-Croat Federation, is not superior to the Serb Republic and has no right to change the Bosnian status quo at will. The Bosnian Civil War started when Moslems, supported by conniving Croats, violated the Bosnian constitution and broke away from Yugoslavia. The Bosnian constitution said clearly and unambiguously that no constitutional changes were possible without the consent of the three constituent peoples of Bosnia. Bosnian Serbs did not give their consent to leaving Yugoslavia, but the Moslems and Croats told them to go to Hell because they had the support of NATO. Something similar is going on today. The Dayton Agreement was forced on the Bosnian Serbs by NATO bombs. The Agreement may have problems, but it has kept the peace for 20 years. If the Moslems now want to ditch the Agreement, then I suppose that is their privilege, but they can’t then say that the Serbs must accept Moslem-rule from Sarajevo. The Bosnian Serbs won’t accept that. If the Moslems, again supported by NATO, want to destroy everything built up over the past 20 years, then I suppose that is what is going to happen. Another war in Bosnia is in the offing. NATO and their American masters never tire of war. With Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya in ruins, and murderous warfare in Syria and Ukraine continuing one would hope for a respite from NATO’s murderous actions. But no, it looks like Bosnia is set to burn again.
Dodik you are the leader of a terrorist entity, you are in no position to call someone else a terrorist. Your kind started 4 wars in the last 2 decades, and if there is another war it will be started by you.
If the Moslems now want to ditch the Agreement, then I suppose that is their privilege, but they can’t then say that the Serbs must accept Moslem-rule from Sarajevo. The Bosnian Serbs won’t accept that. If the Moslems, again supported by NATO, want to destroy everything built up over the past 20 years, then I suppose that is what is going to happen. Another war in Bosnia is in the offing.
(Michael Thomas, 8 June 2015 16:29) # Comment link
Michael,
Fantasizing won't help your cause since Serbia and its renegade cousins have been neutered long ago. Now they can neither fight nor reproduce. Furthermore, they are surrounded by NATO and can't even fart without permission from their masters. And remember, there is still room at the Hague for Dodik. Lastly, don't count on Putin, he can't even pay his own workers.
When will Serbs take responsibility for what they did?
All I read is it's everyone else's fault except the "heavenly Serbs".
Serbs attacked 4 former states of Yugoslavia but those in denial blame others and not the most comment denominator of evil ,instability and direct threat to peace in the region and the world.
Serbs have a lot of growing up to do.
Ackowledge your actions,apologize and MOVE ON people!
The paprika salesman is at it again. Over the past 10 years, whenever Dodik wants attention, gain more votes or demand a pay rise, he starts to stir up an independence movement in RS. After a week you will see Dodik retract his statements and possibly attend the ceremony at Potocari and give a speech on how Mladic was a war criminal. Dodik has done this before time and time again and will never move towards indepdence because he knows his paycheques from the Vatican and Langley will stop, and My Paprika does not want to be broke!
It's a fair point about Izetbegovic. He wrote about a state under Islamic principles and Sharia law is full of barbaric, medieval practices.
I don't think many Bosnian Muslims were interested in that, but if you go by Islamic law, you will end up with an IS or Ottoman Empire and the brutality that comes with it.
(Andy UK, 8 June 2015 15:0
==============================
That is exactly what the west wants. Proof is all around. The US has created ISIL and the Taliban and Boko Haram and the rest of the mess.
No system of government comes close to enslaving the masses like Islam does which is precisely why the US wants it everywhere. They think that they will be able to control the main Muftis and they in turn will control the population, much like what is happening in Islamic countries. One government for the entire world is the target here.
No wonder we are told to import as many Muslims as quickly as possible. Refugee crisis means we all have to take them in. Lebanon took Palestenian refugees in and look at it now. Europe is heading in the same direction and other western countries will in a couple of decades or so. Islam, perfect vehicle with which to control people.
Bosnia already has enough radicals to become Sharia ruled. Kosovo is also there. Macedonia and Montenegro are easy prey.
Serbs are in no position to talk anout ethnic cleansing, as that is the only thing many people know you for. As for what happens next, no doubt many think like you, you will start another war in hopes that you will get something that does not belong to you and get away with it. But just remember, you no langer have the yugo army which was a world power, and you no longer have completely defenseless enemies.
I was in BiH for ten years and again recently and there is no indication that Bosniak politicians are trying to move away from Dayton. They are too busy trying to hold together both national and Federation level coalitions.
(ned taylor, 9 June 2015 13:08)
The SDA party led by Bakir Izetbegovic recently held an election rally where they talked about removal of RS as an entity and reorganization of Bosnia into 5 Muslim majority regions. Do they mean it? Probably just posturing. But threatening rhetoric nonetheless.
It's ironic that in the 1990s Dayton looked like a capitulation for Serbs. And now they are the only ones that are insisting on its original letter. Kind of like the Brussels agreement. They never read the fine print
This has been going on for years. Before the 2006 elections Dodik promised an independence referendum for the RS and yet 9 years later where is it? I was in BiH for ten years and again recently and there is no indication that Bosniak politicians are trying to move away from Dayton. They are too busy trying to hold together both national and Federation level coalitions. There will not be a referendum until Serbia supports it (which at present it certainly does not) and major powers state that they will accept the result. Holding a vote for its own sake will simply be a waste of RS taxpayers money, not the first such instance of this.
From iko: "If an ethnic group or cultural group in a country wishes independence from those surrounding them then they go to the country which offers that alignment not create civil unrest or violent assault upon the citizenry. To carve out by force, coercion or self declaration is provocative and divisive."
Excuse mw iko, but your memory is very selective. What you describe above is exactly what the Croats and subsequently the Muslims did. They both broke international law and the Yugoslav constitution by prematurely seceding. They knew there would be war and they armed themselves to the teeth, again breaking international law by skirting the arms embargo. Before any hostilities in Bosnia broke out, Karadzic proposed dividing the country into ethnic cantons. Izetbegovic, at the urging of Warren Zimmerman, rejected Karadzic because Zimmerman convinced him he would be the president of a unified Bosnia. So they went to war. We all know the results.
Serbs lost a lot in the wars of the 90s, but they fared much better than their adversaries in B-H. Today, they make up 31% of the population and control 49% of the territory. Rupublika Srpska is the only functioning part of B-H. One day they will unify with Serbia. Get used to it. When you start a war, as the Croats and Muslims did, you better be prepared to accept the results. Oh, and brush up on your history.
Anctually njegos the serbs started the wars all 4 of them by trying to eat yugoslavia from the inside. And the serbs tried to create a greater Serbia because they knew their adversaries especially bosniaks were unarmed the embargo worked in favor of the serbs. and no rs is a genocidal entity that will never acheive "independence" or unification. If it did it will be destroyed the within a month anyway.
Really no hostilities began? What about serb attacks on ravno and mostar? this was before the war or independence was even declared. The seebs had a goal and we all know very well what that was "greater serbia" after failing against a poorly armed opposition you tried
To say you were defending yourselves. Yoy do not defend yourself by attacking unarmed people. It is funny how the rhetoric changed drastically from the beginning of the war to the end. You have tried many times to destroy Bosnia but will always fail. Pay attention to what happens next.
From Pope: "In case you did not notice i already explained what will happen next, you simply resorted to your usual tactic of beating around the bush with propaganda."
No, I didn't notice, because you failed to explain your position...again. The difference between you and me is that I deal in facts and you deal in sensationalized headlines. You don't go beneath the surface to do the research. You rely on the distortions that came from your well-paid PR firms. Funny, you accuse me of using propaganda yet it was the Croats and Muslims who paid millions to US PR firms. You still haven't answered my question as to whay they were used if the Croats and Muslims were in the right.
Come back when you have some verifiable facts to discuss instead of your emotional diatribes.
If an ethnic group or cultural group in a country wishes independence from those surrounding them then they go to the country which offers that alignment not create civil unrest or violent assault upon the citizenry. To carve out by force, coercion or self declaration is provocative and divisive.
Bosnian Orthodox citizens with affinity to Serbian cultural practices are just that, not citizens of Serbia nor bred into the everyday geopolitical realities of being born and bred into that environment. They are mostly ( allowing for the influx of Croatian/Serb refugees and the forced migration of war affected casualties) historically and socially products of BiH.
If other countries allowed the same divisive attitude of RS politicians then the world will be engulfed in continuous upheaval as each division holds within it subdivisions of other minority groupings and so on. There are ways to organise a civilized society that doesn’t involve apartheid or ethic cleansing or the arrogance of cultural separateness. Time to state what are the essential needs of the people: rule of law, equal opportunities, separation of powers – religious from secular, ethnicity from political gerrymandering, respect and recognition of cultural needs. Enough disruption- there is more in common than divides so build the future not undermine the present or reinvent the past.W62LTC
From Pope F: "rs is a genocidal entity that will never acheive "independence" or unification."
Pope, no hostilities began until Croats and Muslims broke international law and tried to force Serbs to live in a hostile country with no say so whatsoever about their future. You can't break international law and the constitution of the country you live in and try to force a group of people to live by your standards and not expect some resistance. You underestimated what the consequences would be.
The Muslims, with the backing of the US, started the war and ironically became the biggest losers. You can try to blame the Serbs for starting the war all you want, but the facts point to something quite different. The Federation is on life support. Muslims hate the Croats and visa versa. Both live seperately within the federation. What a joke. Is this what the Muslims fought for? RS is not without its problems, but it is a functioning entity. It has even set up consulates in other countries. Every day they move toward independence or unification with Serbia. It is and always will be Serbian. This I know, burns people like you. Too bad. B-H was a bad experiment that is a total failure. When the west realizes that it will never be a viable state on its own and can only survive with western money, they will pull the plug. And then where will the Muslims of B-H be? The Croats are almost all gone now. When the federation disintegrates, the Muslims will be a footnote in history.
If other countries allowed the same divisive attitude of RS politicians then the world will be engulfed in continuous upheaval as each division holds within it subdivisions of other minority groupings and so on. There are ways to organise a civilized society that doesn’t involve apartheid or ethic cleansing or the arrogance of cultural separateness. Time to state what are the essential needs of the people: rule of law, equal opportunities, separation of powers – religious from secular, ethnicity from political gerrymandering, respect and recognition of cultural needs. Enough disruption- there is more in common than divides so build the future not undermine the present or reinvent the past.W62LTC
(iko, 9 June 2015 15:16
=================================
Where were you when Yugoslavia was being ripped apart by force and then Serbia?
Pope - You haven't addressed any of the facts that I presented to you. Why? Is it because they are 'facts' and you can't deal with that? You would rather regurgitate the spoon-fed propaganda nonsense about the fictitious notion of 'Greater Serbia' that your well-paid PR firms created for the western press. Remember that Pope? Please tell me why the Croats and Muslims paid millions of dollars to US PR firms if you were in the right? Shouldn't the truth prevail? Why the need for PR firms to distort the truth?
These are more facts Pope. I'm sure you'll run away from these facts too as you've previously done. I'm still waiting for you to tell me what is going to happen next in Bosnia. Can't wait for your answer.
In case you did not notice i already explained what will happen next, you simply resorted to your usual tactic of beating around the bush with propaganda.
Pope - Your comments get more absurd the more you pound away at your computer. The hostilities began after Franjo Tudjman was elected. Serbs were fired from their jobs, their property was vandalized and many were murdered. Ustasha war criminals were invited back to Croatia and streets were named after them. This was long before any JNA troops arrived. But according to you, Serbs should have just accepted it.
And regarding Mostar, 20,000 Serbs lived there before the war. Today there are none. They were ethnically cleansed during the early stages of the war.
Pope - you tell me to pay attention to what happens next in Bosnia. Please tell me, please. We both know the next thing that will happen is that the fragile federation will dissolve and RS will be another step closer to unifying with Serbia. Face it Pope, the west is growing tired of keeping the federation on life support. The experiment has failed. Time to pull the plug. The RS is laughing at you.
The Republika Srpska is one of two regions in Bosnia. The other, the Moslem-Croat Federation, is not superior to the Serb Republic and has no right to change the Bosnian status quo at will. The Bosnian Civil War started when Moslems, supported by conniving Croats, violated the Bosnian constitution and broke away from Yugoslavia. The Bosnian constitution said clearly and unambiguously that no constitutional changes were possible without the consent of the three constituent peoples of Bosnia. Bosnian Serbs did not give their consent to leaving Yugoslavia, but the Moslems and Croats told them to go to Hell because they had the support of NATO. Something similar is going on today. The Dayton Agreement was forced on the Bosnian Serbs by NATO bombs. The Agreement may have problems, but it has kept the peace for 20 years. If the Moslems now want to ditch the Agreement, then I suppose that is their privilege, but they can’t then say that the Serbs must accept Moslem-rule from Sarajevo. The Bosnian Serbs won’t accept that. If the Moslems, again supported by NATO, want to destroy everything built up over the past 20 years, then I suppose that is what is going to happen. Another war in Bosnia is in the offing. NATO and their American masters never tire of war. With Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya in ruins, and murderous warfare in Syria and Ukraine continuing one would hope for a respite from NATO’s murderous actions. But no, it looks like Bosnia is set to burn again.
It's a fair point about Izetbegovic. He wrote about a state under Islamic principles and Sharia law is full of barbaric, medieval practices.
I don't think many Bosnian Muslims were interested in that, but if you go by Islamic law, you will end up with an IS or Ottoman Empire and the brutality that comes with it.
(Andy UK, 8 June 2015 15:0
==============================
That is exactly what the west wants. Proof is all around. The US has created ISIL and the Taliban and Boko Haram and the rest of the mess.
No system of government comes close to enslaving the masses like Islam does which is precisely why the US wants it everywhere. They think that they will be able to control the main Muftis and they in turn will control the population, much like what is happening in Islamic countries. One government for the entire world is the target here.
No wonder we are told to import as many Muslims as quickly as possible. Refugee crisis means we all have to take them in. Lebanon took Palestenian refugees in and look at it now. Europe is heading in the same direction and other western countries will in a couple of decades or so. Islam, perfect vehicle with which to control people.
Bosnia already has enough radicals to become Sharia ruled. Kosovo is also there. Macedonia and Montenegro are easy prey.
When will Serbs take responsibility for what they did?
All I read is it's everyone else's fault except the "heavenly Serbs".
Serbs attacked 4 former states of Yugoslavia but those in denial blame others and not the most comment denominator of evil ,instability and direct threat to peace in the region and the world.
Serbs have a lot of growing up to do.
Ackowledge your actions,apologize and MOVE ON people!
Dodik you are the leader of a terrorist entity, you are in no position to call someone else a terrorist. Your kind started 4 wars in the last 2 decades, and if there is another war it will be started by you.
If other countries allowed the same divisive attitude of RS politicians then the world will be engulfed in continuous upheaval as each division holds within it subdivisions of other minority groupings and so on. There are ways to organise a civilized society that doesn’t involve apartheid or ethic cleansing or the arrogance of cultural separateness. Time to state what are the essential needs of the people: rule of law, equal opportunities, separation of powers – religious from secular, ethnicity from political gerrymandering, respect and recognition of cultural needs. Enough disruption- there is more in common than divides so build the future not undermine the present or reinvent the past.W62LTC
(iko, 9 June 2015 15:16
=================================
Where were you when Yugoslavia was being ripped apart by force and then Serbia?
It's a fair point about Izetbegovic. He wrote about a state under Islamic principles and Sharia law is full of barbaric, medieval practices.
I don't think many Bosnian Muslims were interested in that, but if you go by Islamic law, you will end up with an IS or Ottoman Empire and the brutality that comes with it.
The paprika salesman is at it again. Over the past 10 years, whenever Dodik wants attention, gain more votes or demand a pay rise, he starts to stir up an independence movement in RS. After a week you will see Dodik retract his statements and possibly attend the ceremony at Potocari and give a speech on how Mladic was a war criminal. Dodik has done this before time and time again and will never move towards indepdence because he knows his paycheques from the Vatican and Langley will stop, and My Paprika does not want to be broke!
If the Moslems now want to ditch the Agreement, then I suppose that is their privilege, but they can’t then say that the Serbs must accept Moslem-rule from Sarajevo. The Bosnian Serbs won’t accept that. If the Moslems, again supported by NATO, want to destroy everything built up over the past 20 years, then I suppose that is what is going to happen. Another war in Bosnia is in the offing.
(Michael Thomas, 8 June 2015 16:29) # Comment link
Michael,
Fantasizing won't help your cause since Serbia and its renegade cousins have been neutered long ago. Now they can neither fight nor reproduce. Furthermore, they are surrounded by NATO and can't even fart without permission from their masters. And remember, there is still room at the Hague for Dodik. Lastly, don't count on Putin, he can't even pay his own workers.
From iko: "If an ethnic group or cultural group in a country wishes independence from those surrounding them then they go to the country which offers that alignment not create civil unrest or violent assault upon the citizenry. To carve out by force, coercion or self declaration is provocative and divisive."
Excuse mw iko, but your memory is very selective. What you describe above is exactly what the Croats and subsequently the Muslims did. They both broke international law and the Yugoslav constitution by prematurely seceding. They knew there would be war and they armed themselves to the teeth, again breaking international law by skirting the arms embargo. Before any hostilities in Bosnia broke out, Karadzic proposed dividing the country into ethnic cantons. Izetbegovic, at the urging of Warren Zimmerman, rejected Karadzic because Zimmerman convinced him he would be the president of a unified Bosnia. So they went to war. We all know the results.
Serbs lost a lot in the wars of the 90s, but they fared much better than their adversaries in B-H. Today, they make up 31% of the population and control 49% of the territory. Rupublika Srpska is the only functioning part of B-H. One day they will unify with Serbia. Get used to it. When you start a war, as the Croats and Muslims did, you better be prepared to accept the results. Oh, and brush up on your history.
I was in BiH for ten years and again recently and there is no indication that Bosniak politicians are trying to move away from Dayton. They are too busy trying to hold together both national and Federation level coalitions.
(ned taylor, 9 June 2015 13:08)
The SDA party led by Bakir Izetbegovic recently held an election rally where they talked about removal of RS as an entity and reorganization of Bosnia into 5 Muslim majority regions. Do they mean it? Probably just posturing. But threatening rhetoric nonetheless.
It's ironic that in the 1990s Dayton looked like a capitulation for Serbs. And now they are the only ones that are insisting on its original letter. Kind of like the Brussels agreement. They never read the fine print
Pope - Your comments get more absurd the more you pound away at your computer. The hostilities began after Franjo Tudjman was elected. Serbs were fired from their jobs, their property was vandalized and many were murdered. Ustasha war criminals were invited back to Croatia and streets were named after them. This was long before any JNA troops arrived. But according to you, Serbs should have just accepted it.
And regarding Mostar, 20,000 Serbs lived there before the war. Today there are none. They were ethnically cleansed during the early stages of the war.
Pope - you tell me to pay attention to what happens next in Bosnia. Please tell me, please. We both know the next thing that will happen is that the fragile federation will dissolve and RS will be another step closer to unifying with Serbia. Face it Pope, the west is growing tired of keeping the federation on life support. The experiment has failed. Time to pull the plug. The RS is laughing at you.
From Pope F: "rs is a genocidal entity that will never acheive "independence" or unification."
Pope, no hostilities began until Croats and Muslims broke international law and tried to force Serbs to live in a hostile country with no say so whatsoever about their future. You can't break international law and the constitution of the country you live in and try to force a group of people to live by your standards and not expect some resistance. You underestimated what the consequences would be.
The Muslims, with the backing of the US, started the war and ironically became the biggest losers. You can try to blame the Serbs for starting the war all you want, but the facts point to something quite different. The Federation is on life support. Muslims hate the Croats and visa versa. Both live seperately within the federation. What a joke. Is this what the Muslims fought for? RS is not without its problems, but it is a functioning entity. It has even set up consulates in other countries. Every day they move toward independence or unification with Serbia. It is and always will be Serbian. This I know, burns people like you. Too bad. B-H was a bad experiment that is a total failure. When the west realizes that it will never be a viable state on its own and can only survive with western money, they will pull the plug. And then where will the Muslims of B-H be? The Croats are almost all gone now. When the federation disintegrates, the Muslims will be a footnote in history.
Really no hostilities began? What about serb attacks on ravno and mostar? this was before the war or independence was even declared. The seebs had a goal and we all know very well what that was "greater serbia" after failing against a poorly armed opposition you tried
To say you were defending yourselves. Yoy do not defend yourself by attacking unarmed people. It is funny how the rhetoric changed drastically from the beginning of the war to the end. You have tried many times to destroy Bosnia but will always fail. Pay attention to what happens next.
Pope - You haven't addressed any of the facts that I presented to you. Why? Is it because they are 'facts' and you can't deal with that? You would rather regurgitate the spoon-fed propaganda nonsense about the fictitious notion of 'Greater Serbia' that your well-paid PR firms created for the western press. Remember that Pope? Please tell me why the Croats and Muslims paid millions of dollars to US PR firms if you were in the right? Shouldn't the truth prevail? Why the need for PR firms to distort the truth?
These are more facts Pope. I'm sure you'll run away from these facts too as you've previously done. I'm still waiting for you to tell me what is going to happen next in Bosnia. Can't wait for your answer.
Anctually njegos the serbs started the wars all 4 of them by trying to eat yugoslavia from the inside. And the serbs tried to create a greater Serbia because they knew their adversaries especially bosniaks were unarmed the embargo worked in favor of the serbs. and no rs is a genocidal entity that will never acheive "independence" or unification. If it did it will be destroyed the within a month anyway.
Serbs are in no position to talk anout ethnic cleansing, as that is the only thing many people know you for. As for what happens next, no doubt many think like you, you will start another war in hopes that you will get something that does not belong to you and get away with it. But just remember, you no langer have the yugo army which was a world power, and you no longer have completely defenseless enemies.
From Pope: "In case you did not notice i already explained what will happen next, you simply resorted to your usual tactic of beating around the bush with propaganda."
No, I didn't notice, because you failed to explain your position...again. The difference between you and me is that I deal in facts and you deal in sensationalized headlines. You don't go beneath the surface to do the research. You rely on the distortions that came from your well-paid PR firms. Funny, you accuse me of using propaganda yet it was the Croats and Muslims who paid millions to US PR firms. You still haven't answered my question as to whay they were used if the Croats and Muslims were in the right.
Come back when you have some verifiable facts to discuss instead of your emotional diatribes.
This has been going on for years. Before the 2006 elections Dodik promised an independence referendum for the RS and yet 9 years later where is it? I was in BiH for ten years and again recently and there is no indication that Bosniak politicians are trying to move away from Dayton. They are too busy trying to hold together both national and Federation level coalitions. There will not be a referendum until Serbia supports it (which at present it certainly does not) and major powers state that they will accept the result. Holding a vote for its own sake will simply be a waste of RS taxpayers money, not the first such instance of this.
If an ethnic group or cultural group in a country wishes independence from those surrounding them then they go to the country which offers that alignment not create civil unrest or violent assault upon the citizenry. To carve out by force, coercion or self declaration is provocative and divisive.
Bosnian Orthodox citizens with affinity to Serbian cultural practices are just that, not citizens of Serbia nor bred into the everyday geopolitical realities of being born and bred into that environment. They are mostly ( allowing for the influx of Croatian/Serb refugees and the forced migration of war affected casualties) historically and socially products of BiH.
If other countries allowed the same divisive attitude of RS politicians then the world will be engulfed in continuous upheaval as each division holds within it subdivisions of other minority groupings and so on. There are ways to organise a civilized society that doesn’t involve apartheid or ethic cleansing or the arrogance of cultural separateness. Time to state what are the essential needs of the people: rule of law, equal opportunities, separation of powers – religious from secular, ethnicity from political gerrymandering, respect and recognition of cultural needs. Enough disruption- there is more in common than divides so build the future not undermine the present or reinvent the past.W62LTC
In case you did not notice i already explained what will happen next, you simply resorted to your usual tactic of beating around the bush with propaganda.
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