Chinese want "guarantees, not concession"

I can offer the Serbian government a better deal. Let me open a bank in Serbia (I'll call it the Road Bank). The government should then deposit 100 million euros in my bank (this can be a pretend deposit with the money sitting in the National Bank of Serbia). I can then create credit 10 times greater than my deposit. So I now have 1 billion euros. I then deposit this 1 billion euros in the National Bank of Serbia (of course this is just a computer transfer because I don't have any euros). Now that the National Bank of Serbia has got 1 billion euros from my bank, it can create 120 billion Dinars which it transfers to me. With this 120 billion Dinars I pay Serbian companies to build the motorway. When it is finished I give the motorway to the government for free.

After all these strange financial transactions, how much did the motorway cost the Serbian people? This is difficult to answer accurately, but in principle what we have done is create 120 billion Dinars out of nothing. This is something the Americans, British, Germans and Japanese do everyday. Money created this way may cause inflation (but this is not certain) but if some inflation is created it can be controlled by charging people for driving on the new motorway. If drivers are charged 100 Din to use the motorway and that money is destroyed by the government, then Money Supply is reduced and inflation controlled. Building this way means the road is owned by Serbia and no interest is paid to the banks.

At the "end of the day" China being Serbia's buddy nation doesn't mean it wants to be exploited.It's not that uncommon for friends including nations that share a special relationship with each other to occasionally have disputes with one another as far as I'm concerned.

If this highway is anything like the stuff they make and sell in the Chinese stores, it will be broken after the first time it is used.

"Chinese want "guarantees, not concession""

Poor Serbia... This is what happens what people are too romantic about "brotherhood", "friendship" and BS like that... At the end of the day there are only interests!

I can offer the Serbian government a better deal. Let me open a bank in Serbia (I'll call it the Road Bank). The government should then deposit 100 million euros in my bank (this can be a pretend deposit with the money sitting in the National Bank of Serbia)....
(Michael Thomas, 5 May 2015 11:54)

Where will the National Bank of Serbia find the EUR 100 million (regardless of where they seat)?! Obviously there is no need to read the rest of your financial treatise since it's based on a flawed foundation... Sorry mate you wasted your time!

Where will the National Bank of Serbia find the EUR 100 million (regardless of where they seat)?! Obviously there is no need to read the rest of your financial treatise since it's based on a flawed foundation... Sorry mate you wasted your time!
(icj1, 6 May 2015 05:01)

This is a fair question but one easy to answer. Banks don't need cash in their vaults, they need assets. The Serbian government has many assets (government buildings, airports, power stations, etc) these are worth hundreds of billions of euros. Some of these could be used to create a deposit in my bank.

The problem with people like you, Sir, is that you do not understand how banking works and you cannot bring yourself to believe that it is a con-game invented centuries ago to rob you and me and the rest of humanity. If we wish to escape the servitude that the bankers have forced on us, then we must learn to use the same tricks they use.

Perhaps my talk about billions of euros is too much for you to cope with. So let's look at a smaller sum. If you borrow 200,000 euros from a bank to buy a house, then that bank will create that money on a computer screen. That 200,000 euros did not exist until you borrowed it. This is how banking works. The private bank charges you 5% interest for the loan. Over the 25 years of the loan you will pay back the 200,000 borrowed and another 200,000 in interest; 400,000 euros in total. If you borrowed from a state-owned bank, they could lend you money at 0% interest.

If we wish to escape the servitude that the bankers have forced on us, then we must learn to use the same tricks they use.
(Michael Thomas, 6 May 2015 10:59)

I (and many other people) use them already every day; there's not any tricks, just common sense and some skills. But obviously, as usually parasites do, you find it easier wasting your time with coming up with cospiracy theories about why others are successful when you are not, rather then working hard to be as successful as them
----------

Perhaps my talk about billions of euros is too much for you to cope with.
(Michael Thomas, 6 May 2015 10:59)

Of course, it's hard to cope with it since "billions of euros" and "Serbia" don't fit well in the same sentence, unless you are talking about debt :)
----------

So let's look at a smaller sum. If you borrow 200,000 euros from a bank to buy a house, then that bank will create that money on a computer screen.
(Michael Thomas, 6 May 2015 10:59)

Yes, of course, that's called fraud and your bank which does the above will not last for long before you land in jail. Obviously, once I pay the seller of the house and the title, I couldn't care less how the bank created the money and whether you end up in jail.

That 200,000 euros did not exist until you borrowed it. This is how banking works
(Michael Thomas, 6 May 2015 10:59)

That's how fraudelent banking works and a bank like that will collapse within weeks (months max if the regulators/prosecutors are sleeping). A normal bank has to have 200,000 in its account or borrow 200,000 to be able to lend you 200,000. You can't lend something you don't have - that's fraud.
----------

The private bank charges you 5% interest for the loan. Over the 25 years of the loan you will pay back the 200,000 borrowed and another 200,000 in interest; 400,000 euros in total.
(Michael Thomas, 6 May 2015 10:59)

That's totally flawed and just demonstrates that you have no idea about banking and finance. You can't add up the 200,000 you borrred on, say, 01/01/2015, with the 200,000 of interest over 25 years. That's like adding apples and oranges because you are ignoring the time value of money. The "400,000" you pay over the course of 25 years has a value of exactly 200,000 on 01/01/2015 (note: your calculation of 200,000 in interest is wrong - but let's go with it for now).
----------

If you borrowed from a state-owned bank, they could lend you money at 0% interest.
(Michael Thomas, 6 May 2015 10:59)

In order to easily understand how stupid the above statement is suffices to note that is similar to saying "If you rented an apartment from the state, they could rent your the apartment for free (i.e. you don't have to pay rent)"

This is a fair question but one easy to answer. Banks don't need cash in their vaults, they need assets. The Serbian government has many assets (government buildings, airports, power stations, etc) these are worth hundreds of billions of euros. Some of these could be used to create a deposit in my bank.
(Michael Thomas, 6 May 2015 10:59)

How would they be used to create a deposit in your bank?! Details mate, details... The devil is in the details!!! You jump from A to Z skipping all the steps in between and end up producing trash :)
----------

The problem with people like you, Sir, is that you do not understand how banking works
(Michael Thomas, 6 May 2015 10:59)

That's correct; you'll find few people that understand how your "banking" works because it doesn't lol
----------

and you cannot bring yourself to believe that it is a con-game invented centuries ago to rob you and me and the rest of humanity.
(Michael Thomas, 6 May 2015 10:59)

If being robbed means that I benefit from it as I do, I'm fine with being robbed rather than waste my time with coming up and believing cospiracy theories.

That 200,000 euros did not exist until you borrowed it. This is how banking works
(Michael Thomas, 6 May 2015 10:59)

That's how fraudelent banking works and a bank like that will collapse within weeks (months max if the regulators/prosecutors are sleeping). A normal bank has to have 200,000 in its account or borrow 200,000 to be able to lend you 200,000. You can't lend something you don't have - that's fraud.
(icj1, 7 May 2015 03:25)

I understand your emotional response. Any normal person would think as you do. The problem is that you simply do not understand how banks work. If you and others understood the fraud that is robbing mankind, there would be a revolution before lunchtime. You need to do a bit of reading before you fire off your next response. I am not trying to win a debate with you, I have no interest in that; I want you and others to understand the crime that is being perpetrated against mankind and for you to join me in changing things. You are obviously interested in this subject so I recommend that you become better informed. Search the Internet for articles describing how money and credit are created. This subject can be a bit tricky to grasp, but you will get it

That's how fraudelent banking works and a bank like that will collapse within weeks (months max if the regulators/prosecutors are sleeping). A normal bank has to have 200,000 in its account or borrow 200,000 to be able to lend you 200,000. You can't lend something you don't have - that's fraud.
(icj1, 7 May 2015 03:25)

I understand your emotional response. Any normal person would think as you do.
(Michael Thomas, 7 May 2015 10:08)

Yup, you got it! And I have no desire to become abnormal; I'm happy to leave that to you :)

This is a fair question but one easy to answer. Banks don't need cash in their vaults, they need assets. The Serbian government has many assets (government buildings, airports, power stations, etc) these are worth hundreds of billions of euros. Some of these could be used to create a deposit in my bank.
(Michael Thomas, 6 May 2015 10:59)

Michael,
I've been following your debate with "icj1". It seems to me that you better stick to playing the board game of MONOPOLY and leave banking to your debating partner.

Yup, you got it! And I have no desire to become abnormal; I'm happy to leave that to you :)
(icj1, 8 May 2015 03:06)

The difference between a Slave and a Prisoners is that prisoners hate their persecutors and want to escape; Slaves accept their place in society and are dutiful to their Masters. I am looking for Revolutionaries who will fight for their freedom. I have wasted enough time on a mere slave.
(Michael Thomas, 8 May 2015 16:05)

Of course, so feel free to fight if you're not happy with your life or being a slave or prisoner (as an advice, perhaps you can also work a bit harder to live better rather then wasting your time with conspiracy theories).

Yup, you got it! And I have no desire to become abnormal; I'm happy to leave that to you :)
(icj1, 8 May 2015 03:06)

The difference between a Slave and a Prisoners is that prisoners hate their persecutors and want to escape; Slaves accept their place in society and are dutiful to their Masters. I am looking for Revolutionaries who will fight for their freedom. I have wasted enough time on a mere slave.

If this highway is anything like the stuff they make and sell in the Chinese stores, it will be broken after the first time it is used.

At the "end of the day" China being Serbia's buddy nation doesn't mean it wants to be exploited.It's not that uncommon for friends including nations that share a special relationship with each other to occasionally have disputes with one another as far as I'm concerned.

I can offer the Serbian government a better deal. Let me open a bank in Serbia (I'll call it the Road Bank). The government should then deposit 100 million euros in my bank (this can be a pretend deposit with the money sitting in the National Bank of Serbia). I can then create credit 10 times greater than my deposit. So I now have 1 billion euros. I then deposit this 1 billion euros in the National Bank of Serbia (of course this is just a computer transfer because I don't have any euros). Now that the National Bank of Serbia has got 1 billion euros from my bank, it can create 120 billion Dinars which it transfers to me. With this 120 billion Dinars I pay Serbian companies to build the motorway. When it is finished I give the motorway to the government for free.

After all these strange financial transactions, how much did the motorway cost the Serbian people? This is difficult to answer accurately, but in principle what we have done is create 120 billion Dinars out of nothing. This is something the Americans, British, Germans and Japanese do everyday. Money created this way may cause inflation (but this is not certain) but if some inflation is created it can be controlled by charging people for driving on the new motorway. If drivers are charged 100 Din to use the motorway and that money is destroyed by the government, then Money Supply is reduced and inflation controlled. Building this way means the road is owned by Serbia and no interest is paid to the banks.

Where will the National Bank of Serbia find the EUR 100 million (regardless of where they seat)?! Obviously there is no need to read the rest of your financial treatise since it's based on a flawed foundation... Sorry mate you wasted your time!
(icj1, 6 May 2015 05:01)

This is a fair question but one easy to answer. Banks don't need cash in their vaults, they need assets. The Serbian government has many assets (government buildings, airports, power stations, etc) these are worth hundreds of billions of euros. Some of these could be used to create a deposit in my bank.

The problem with people like you, Sir, is that you do not understand how banking works and you cannot bring yourself to believe that it is a con-game invented centuries ago to rob you and me and the rest of humanity. If we wish to escape the servitude that the bankers have forced on us, then we must learn to use the same tricks they use.

Perhaps my talk about billions of euros is too much for you to cope with. So let's look at a smaller sum. If you borrow 200,000 euros from a bank to buy a house, then that bank will create that money on a computer screen. That 200,000 euros did not exist until you borrowed it. This is how banking works. The private bank charges you 5% interest for the loan. Over the 25 years of the loan you will pay back the 200,000 borrowed and another 200,000 in interest; 400,000 euros in total. If you borrowed from a state-owned bank, they could lend you money at 0% interest.

Yup, you got it! And I have no desire to become abnormal; I'm happy to leave that to you :)
(icj1, 8 May 2015 03:06)

The difference between a Slave and a Prisoners is that prisoners hate their persecutors and want to escape; Slaves accept their place in society and are dutiful to their Masters. I am looking for Revolutionaries who will fight for their freedom. I have wasted enough time on a mere slave.

I can offer the Serbian government a better deal. Let me open a bank in Serbia (I'll call it the Road Bank). The government should then deposit 100 million euros in my bank (this can be a pretend deposit with the money sitting in the National Bank of Serbia)....
(Michael Thomas, 5 May 2015 11:54)

Where will the National Bank of Serbia find the EUR 100 million (regardless of where they seat)?! Obviously there is no need to read the rest of your financial treatise since it's based on a flawed foundation... Sorry mate you wasted your time!

"Chinese want "guarantees, not concession""

Poor Serbia... This is what happens what people are too romantic about "brotherhood", "friendship" and BS like that... At the end of the day there are only interests!

That 200,000 euros did not exist until you borrowed it. This is how banking works
(Michael Thomas, 6 May 2015 10:59)

That's how fraudelent banking works and a bank like that will collapse within weeks (months max if the regulators/prosecutors are sleeping). A normal bank has to have 200,000 in its account or borrow 200,000 to be able to lend you 200,000. You can't lend something you don't have - that's fraud.
(icj1, 7 May 2015 03:25)

I understand your emotional response. Any normal person would think as you do. The problem is that you simply do not understand how banks work. If you and others understood the fraud that is robbing mankind, there would be a revolution before lunchtime. You need to do a bit of reading before you fire off your next response. I am not trying to win a debate with you, I have no interest in that; I want you and others to understand the crime that is being perpetrated against mankind and for you to join me in changing things. You are obviously interested in this subject so I recommend that you become better informed. Search the Internet for articles describing how money and credit are created. This subject can be a bit tricky to grasp, but you will get it

This is a fair question but one easy to answer. Banks don't need cash in their vaults, they need assets. The Serbian government has many assets (government buildings, airports, power stations, etc) these are worth hundreds of billions of euros. Some of these could be used to create a deposit in my bank.
(Michael Thomas, 6 May 2015 10:59)

Michael,
I've been following your debate with "icj1". It seems to me that you better stick to playing the board game of MONOPOLY and leave banking to your debating partner.

Yup, you got it! And I have no desire to become abnormal; I'm happy to leave that to you :)
(icj1, 8 May 2015 03:06)

The difference between a Slave and a Prisoners is that prisoners hate their persecutors and want to escape; Slaves accept their place in society and are dutiful to their Masters. I am looking for Revolutionaries who will fight for their freedom. I have wasted enough time on a mere slave.
(Michael Thomas, 8 May 2015 16:05)

Of course, so feel free to fight if you're not happy with your life or being a slave or prisoner (as an advice, perhaps you can also work a bit harder to live better rather then wasting your time with conspiracy theories).

This is a fair question but one easy to answer. Banks don't need cash in their vaults, they need assets. The Serbian government has many assets (government buildings, airports, power stations, etc) these are worth hundreds of billions of euros. Some of these could be used to create a deposit in my bank.
(Michael Thomas, 6 May 2015 10:59)

How would they be used to create a deposit in your bank?! Details mate, details... The devil is in the details!!! You jump from A to Z skipping all the steps in between and end up producing trash :)
----------

The problem with people like you, Sir, is that you do not understand how banking works
(Michael Thomas, 6 May 2015 10:59)

That's correct; you'll find few people that understand how your "banking" works because it doesn't lol
----------

and you cannot bring yourself to believe that it is a con-game invented centuries ago to rob you and me and the rest of humanity.
(Michael Thomas, 6 May 2015 10:59)

If being robbed means that I benefit from it as I do, I'm fine with being robbed rather than waste my time with coming up and believing cospiracy theories.

If we wish to escape the servitude that the bankers have forced on us, then we must learn to use the same tricks they use.
(Michael Thomas, 6 May 2015 10:59)

I (and many other people) use them already every day; there's not any tricks, just common sense and some skills. But obviously, as usually parasites do, you find it easier wasting your time with coming up with cospiracy theories about why others are successful when you are not, rather then working hard to be as successful as them
----------

Perhaps my talk about billions of euros is too much for you to cope with.
(Michael Thomas, 6 May 2015 10:59)

Of course, it's hard to cope with it since "billions of euros" and "Serbia" don't fit well in the same sentence, unless you are talking about debt :)
----------

So let's look at a smaller sum. If you borrow 200,000 euros from a bank to buy a house, then that bank will create that money on a computer screen.
(Michael Thomas, 6 May 2015 10:59)

Yes, of course, that's called fraud and your bank which does the above will not last for long before you land in jail. Obviously, once I pay the seller of the house and the title, I couldn't care less how the bank created the money and whether you end up in jail.

That 200,000 euros did not exist until you borrowed it. This is how banking works
(Michael Thomas, 6 May 2015 10:59)

That's how fraudelent banking works and a bank like that will collapse within weeks (months max if the regulators/prosecutors are sleeping). A normal bank has to have 200,000 in its account or borrow 200,000 to be able to lend you 200,000. You can't lend something you don't have - that's fraud.
----------

The private bank charges you 5% interest for the loan. Over the 25 years of the loan you will pay back the 200,000 borrowed and another 200,000 in interest; 400,000 euros in total.
(Michael Thomas, 6 May 2015 10:59)

That's totally flawed and just demonstrates that you have no idea about banking and finance. You can't add up the 200,000 you borrred on, say, 01/01/2015, with the 200,000 of interest over 25 years. That's like adding apples and oranges because you are ignoring the time value of money. The "400,000" you pay over the course of 25 years has a value of exactly 200,000 on 01/01/2015 (note: your calculation of 200,000 in interest is wrong - but let's go with it for now).
----------

If you borrowed from a state-owned bank, they could lend you money at 0% interest.
(Michael Thomas, 6 May 2015 10:59)

In order to easily understand how stupid the above statement is suffices to note that is similar to saying "If you rented an apartment from the state, they could rent your the apartment for free (i.e. you don't have to pay rent)"

That's how fraudelent banking works and a bank like that will collapse within weeks (months max if the regulators/prosecutors are sleeping). A normal bank has to have 200,000 in its account or borrow 200,000 to be able to lend you 200,000. You can't lend something you don't have - that's fraud.
(icj1, 7 May 2015 03:25)

I understand your emotional response. Any normal person would think as you do.
(Michael Thomas, 7 May 2015 10:08)

Yup, you got it! And I have no desire to become abnormal; I'm happy to leave that to you :)