Holocaust??? Auschwitz?? Why serbs don't talk about Srebrenica??? The biggest massacre in Europe after Holocaust??? Did any Serbian feels guilty, or apologizet for that???
Comparing everyone and everything one doesn't like to Nazis is thrown around far too liberally and glibly these days. I know this is veritable Golden Rule on Internet debates, but it just cheapens the credibility of one's argument.
Something can't be "not allowed" if it never materialized in the first place.
(Balkan Anthropologist, 30 January 2015 16:38)
I almost cracked a gut on that one, as it is hard to read a single comments section on B92 without Serbs calling Albanians or Croats Nazis. But more to the point, I never meant they were exactly the same but Milosevic was stopped before his aspirations could manifest to Hitlers level. It is evident that he wanted to promote what he thought was the master race (truly a wrong thought) but he wanted an ethnically pure greater Serbia. They have him on video saying Serbs were the only ones that knew how to handle the Albanians. But his goal was to cleanse Kosovo of Albanians by whatever means he had to use. A personality like that only wants MORE power, they are never satisfied with what they have. If Europe and the US had allowed him to complete his task in Kosovo, he would have moved on to other tasks.
I think everyone can agree the Holocaust was a great shame on those that waited so long to stop it. Should they have not learned anything and waited for Milosevic to reach that point before acting again?
To make a true comparison we would have had to let him exterminate all the Albanians but we did not allow that.
(a New day, 30 January 2015 14:43)
Correct, but I don't recall reading about any "Final Solution" to the "Albanian Problem" in Milosevic's haphazard strategy of national defense. I don't recall any systematic effort at deliberately targeting every person of one particular ethno/religious identity. I also don't remember Milosevic consulting with Yugoslav High Command in planning on invading Albania either.
Comparing everyone and everything one doesn't like to Nazis is thrown around far too liberally and glibly these days. I know this is veritable Golden Rule on Internet debates, but it just cheapens the credibility of one's argument.
Something can't be "not allowed" if it never materialized in the first place.
Today's fascist chetniks refuse to accept their fascist, anti-semitic chetnik past - that's their problem. At some point they will have to own up to the native fascist element, supported so strongly by the church, reinforced though the ww2 fasicst collaborationist government and their native fascist soldiers, police and chetnik terrorists. Time for the lies are gone - even Israeli politicians are finally getting wise.
Serbia strongly and desperately needs de-nazification, starting with their media...
(roberto, 29 January 2015 21:19)
LOL wow man, you wrote "fascist" five times. You sure you got whatever point you think you have across clearly enough? I have to agree with those who've responded to you before me: you're really sounding like a broken record with no point to make. Pretty rambling and incoherent as well - far less organized and collected as you used to sound.
Also, make sure you know what the words "fascist" and "nazi" are before you throw them around like a verbal tick even more than Netanyahu does when interviewed on Fox News. It doesn't say much to your intelligence when you try to pin that label on a country never practiced it, nor had a collaborationist government during the Second World War.
You sure you're even the real "roberto"? I mean it sounds like you, but you've never been this illogical and unhinged.
The goals were far far from the same, Hitlers goal was to exterminate all jews and create a third reich, now do you have any proof whatsoever that this was what Milosevic wanted? Also, Hitler fought allower the world.
(Daniel, 28 January 2015 15:46)
Like I said the two main differences were time and efficiency, but actually there was a third, intelligence. Milosevic had goals without the intelligence to carry them out.
Hitler went all over Europe with his goals, but that took years to get there. That is one reason Milosevic had to be stopped before his aspirations grew. To make a true comparison we would have had to let him exterminate all the Albanians but we did not allow that.
Today's fascist chetniks refuse to accept their fascist, anti-semitic chetnik past - that's their problem. At some point they will have to own up to the native fascist element, supported so strongly by the church, reinforced though the ww2 fasicst collaborationist government and their native fascist soldiers, police and chetnik terrorists. Time for the lies are gone - even Israeli politicians are finally getting wise.
Serbia strongly and desperately needs de-nazification, starting with their media...
(roberto, 29 January 2015 21:19)
That's the best you can come up with roberto? FACTS man! Do you understand English? I asked you to put your money where your mouth is and all you did was provide me more mouth.
You're really pathetic man, that Serbian wife who divorced you must totaly really screwed you up in the head for you to have such an intense paranoia against a whole people and sound like some broken record.
You're nothing more than an ugly human being trying to pass yourself off as an activist. I can even see the mental degradation in your typing. Pathetic. Truly pathetic.
Today's fascist chetniks refuse to accept their fascist, anti-semitic chetnik past - that's their problem. At some point they will have to own up to the native fascist element, supported so strongly by the church, reinforced though the ww2 fasicst collaborationist government and their native fascist soldiers, police and chetnik terrorists. Time for the lies are gone - even Israeli politicians are finally getting wise.
Serbia strongly and desperately needs de-nazification, starting with their media...
Albania after ww2 was the only country in Europe with a larger jewish population then prior to the war.
(Skifteri, 28 January 2015 00:52)
I've never disputed that. From what I understand, that is indeed the truth. But in Kosovo-Metohija, the Albanians there did form the SS Skenderbeg which was responsible for thousands of murders of Serbs, Jews and Roma. So fine, let's differentiate. Albanians helped Jews but their primitive 'kosovar' cousins were definitely some of the biggest Nazi puppets 2nd only to Croatia.
And anyway, no one has a problem with Albania. It's the Albanians who think everywhere they settle becomes Albania that people have a problem with.l
It is shameful and painful to read the terrible speech of the Serbian president. He is seperating Jews from Serbs mentioning different figures for the groups. I am sure that there were Serbian citizens of Jewish faith. It is dramatically how Serbia is facing the history with the renaming of many streets named after partisans. The rehabilitation of the cetnik-leader is not acceptable. Nikolic praises Germany in his speech, it is not a joke. And the PM expressed his hate opposite the democratic elected government in Greece, one of the rare countries supporting Serbia. Serbia seems to be on a totally wrong path.
"We now entered the concentration camp in a converted factory. Appalling conditions. A handful of men, many women and children, without enough clothing, sleeping on a stone tablet at night, screams all around, cries and sobbing. The camp commander – a scoundrel – I ignored him, but instead told my Ustasha guide: "This is enough to make a person vomit"
"And then worst of all: a room along whose walls, lay on straw which had just been brought for my inspection, something like fifty naked children, half of them dead, the other half dying. We should not forget that the inventors of concentrations camps were the British during the Boer War. However, these camps have reached the height of hideousness here in Croatia, under the Poglavnik [Ustasha leader] installed by us. The greatest of all evils must be Jasenovac, which no ordinary mortal can glimpse"
Just some of his testimonies, coming from a Nazi and how shocked even he was I think that says it all about the Croatian involvement in the Holocaust. As horrific as Hitler's methods were, those by the Croats were well above and beyond in terms of their brutality and sickness.
Ari Gold the so called Jewish Balkan historian once again fails to mention Ljotic & Nedic. Where were you educated ?
(Bam Bam, 28 January 2015 08:52)
Bam Bam, the sometimes pro-Ustasha, sometimes pro-KLA American not only feels the need to accuse someone else of being Jewish (as if that's a bad thing), but once again tries to pin an argument on Nedic and Ljotic, as if that implicates Serbia's role in Nazi collaboration.
Nedic was pro-Axis member of the Royal Yugoslav Army and other than governing what was left of Axis-controlled Serbia did absolutely nothing. He received little respect from Serbs and almost no attention from Germany. His claim for "collaboration" was discouraging Serbs from resisting due to the known law that for every 1 German killed, 50 Serbs would be killed in return. Other than that, there is no connection between him and death camps.
Ljotic was the quisling leader of Zbor, the only Nazi-supported political party in Nazi-occupied Serbia. Before 1941, Zbor received little more than 1% of electoral support from the population and during the war despite efforts by the Nazis to promote him, he received no attention from ordinary Serbs. He even actively campaigned against Draza Mihailovic. He was even more irrelevant than Nedic and also has no connection to any of the death camps in Serbia.
Sorry Bam Bam, once again you're left grasping straws. Don't question anyone else's education when you can't even bother to learn it yourself.
The goals were the same.
(a New Day, 28 January 2015 00:35)
The goals were far far from the same, Hitlers goal was to exterminate all jews and create a third reich, now do you have any proof whatsoever that this was what Milosevic wanted? Also, Hitler fought allower the world.
This is the first time that I know of that a representative of Israel has called the Belgrade regime to task for its lies
The belgrade regime has totally distorted the truth, and gotten away with it for too long, but no more. The truth has finally emerged...
(roberto, 27 January 2015 21:35)
Your literacy problem is getting worse by the month. Get someone to translate it to you in Albanian and then you might understand.
“roberto, please provide factual evidence where there was active Serb collaboration with the Nazis in rounding up Jews”
There are lots of myths about the Holocaust :
1/ As if 40% of the Jews were eliminated. In fact it could be 15-20% that is less than Byelorussians estimated from 25 to 33%.
2/ As if all the Jews were eliminated. In fact Zionist Jews that composed 3% of the German Jews were prospering there all the time. They had their newspapers and served in Wermaht. Goering even once said (about one Jewish General) that it was him to decide who was a Jew and who was not. Without help of the Zionists Holocaust would be not that tragic as the Germans had no lists of the Jews while most of them had German names.
3/ As if the Jews were eliminated all the time. In fact the real massacre started only in 1942 as a result of the defeat near Moscow.
4/ As if all the Axis states were equal participants in Holocaust. In fact Italy saved all their Jews after Benito said that in Italy there are no Jews and all of them are Italians. During Mussolini only 9 men were executed and none of them was a Jew.
5/ As if Jews equally suffered on all occupied territories. In fact in Estonia they killed 100% of the Jews while in the mainland USSR the Jews suffered even less than the Russians. Because in 1941 they were evacuated first.
This is the first time that I know of that a representative of Israel has called the Belgrade regime to task for its lies
The belgrade regime has totally distorted the truth, and gotten away with it for too long, but no more. The truth has finally emerged...
(roberto, 27 January 2015 21:35)
You are misconstruing what the Ambassador was saying. He simply stated the fact that Jews were murdered in Staro Sajmiste. This fact has never been disputed or covered up by absolutely anybody.
The difference is that Serbia resisted Nazi Germany and subsequently, Belgrade was bombed because of it and then directly occupied by the German military.
The Serbian state nor the Serbian people aren't held responsible for something that happened during an occupation. What was the Serbian answer to that occupation? Forming the majority of two anti-Nazi fronts-the Chetniks and Partizans.
Meanwhile the Nazi State of Croatia that killed at least 700, 000 Serbs, Jews and Roma were loyal clients of the Nazis until the very end.
In Holocaust main words are USSR and SOVIET ARMY while none of them was mentioned here … To say nothing that same very day Russia celebrates end of the 900 day blockade of Leningrad that cost us 1 440 000 lives. Unlike fascist Poroshenko Putin was not invited to Oswentsim and Polish FM said it those were the Ukrainians who set the camp free in 1944. Earlier Obama said his grandpa had set Oswentsim free … Who else is here to tell his HOW I WON THE WAR STORIES ?
Draza was also executed by the anti fascist counsel for collaborating with the Germans-This is fact !
(Bam Bam, 27 January 2015 22:21)
No, he was executed because he was Tito's biggest rival. That he was passed off as a fascist was a way of justifying his trial. That's the fact. Your's is, like everything else you write, made up crap.
Collaborators are not wanted by Nazis with promises of reward.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4e/DMihailovic_poternica.jpg
Germany's military was stationed in Central Serbia and in the processes, they got one Serb by the name of Milan Nedic to act as a intermediary for the occupation. So because of this one Serb, "Serbs were collaborators", right?!
(Ari Gold, 27 January 2015 19:47)
Yes, you are right. That's the logic of some Serbs... make sure you guys sort it out :)
Nikolic fails to mention the Serbian Volunteer Guard who rounded up Jews in 39' under the leadership of Serbian General Milan Nedic and handed them directly to the Nazi's.
(Bam Bam, 27 January 2015 22:21)
WWII did not reach Yugoslavia until the bombing of Belgrade in 1941, not 39. All your other trash wont be dignified because you vomited all over the rest of your comment with that one.
The only fact is that you croats are the worst butchers in the history of human mankind along with your fellow nazi brethren.
"In World War II, Hitler had no executioners more willing, no ally more passionate, than the fascists of Croatia," A. M. Rosenthal wrote in The Times.
"In World War II, Hitler had no executioners more willing, no ally more passionate, than the fascists of Croatia," A. M. Rosenthal wrote in The
http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2007-01-16/news/0701160085_1_croatia-serbs-war-ii
Old habits are hard to break. "In World War II, Hitler had no executioners more willing, no ally more passionate, than the fascists of Croatia," A. M. Rosenthal wrote in The New York Times in 1998. "They are returning, 50 years later, from what should have been their eternal grave, the defeat of Nazi Germany. The Western Allies who dug that grave with the bodies of their servicemen have the power to stop them, but do not."
In 1995, The London Evening Standard's Edward Pearce wrote that "you can understand Croatia best by saying flatly that if there is one place in the world where a statue of Adolf Hitler would be revered, it would be Zagreb," Croatia's capital.
The sate of Israel recognizes the Albanian people a righteous among the nations for refusing to hand over jews to the Nazis.
A short search will inform you that Albanians refused to hand over the jews to the nazis and protected all Jewish people on Albanian inhabited lands by hiding them and helping them blend with the rest of the population.
Albania after ww2 was the only country in Europe with a larger jewish population then prior to the war.
(rote, 27 January 2015 19:49)
Always wondered how the Russians viewed themselves in WW2, I guess in your eyes the whole world owes you for singlehandedly freeing Europe? But what about the Russian treatment of Jews post WW2?, Even today?
But it is ironic that Serbs even mention the Holocaust as that was the real reason for the bombing of Serbia in 1999. Europe has always been criticized because they did not act quickly enough to stop Hitler which resulted in the deaths of millions of innocent victims, they could not allow history to show modern day Europe sit idly by and allow Milosevic to do the same thing.
Serbs scoff at the comparison in Hitler and Milosevic but the 2 biggest differences were time and effeciency. The goals were the same.
Rocky seems think that because death camps were located in present day Serbia, that must be all the proof one needs to conclude Serbs were collaborators.
----------------------------
You're right. With that sort of reasoning we then must conclude that the Poles were worse monsters than the Nazis. They had the notorious Auschwitz.
Nobody beats Nazi Croatia, Muslim Bosnia and Nazi Albanians. They were German puppets and they think they have any right to talk about others.
In each of these ceremonies, the Belgrade regime distorts (lies about) the Holocaust, leaves out significant facts about native fascist collaboration, which was widespread and absolutely facilitated the mass death of Jews inside Serbian territory.
(roberto, 27 January 2015 21:35)
roberto, please provide factual evidence where there was active Serb collaboration with the Nazis in rounding up Jews and other undesirables for the death camps.
And no roberto, Philip Cohen's horrible book Serbia's Secret War doesn't count as evidence since Cohen is an avowedly Croatian apologist, an open supporter of Tudjman, and is considered a schlock scholar of the worst kind.
Put the money you don't have where your mouth is always inviting itself in. And try not to reply back with empty anti-Serb rhetoric or worn out cliched statements of truth, justice, and human rights you fall back on when you have nothing of substance to provide.
You may just want to ignore this call for information like you do every other time someone calls you out on your BS since you know you've got nothing other than your pathological intolerance for Serbs. But if you do decide to be a "man" and back your accusations up, I'm sure we'd all be curious to see what you've got.
"The Jews and the Serbs are part of the same history chapter, which we should read together, with eyes wide open, with courage and friendship," the Israeli ambassador said."
Bravo, Ambassador Levy, for promoting peace and friendship. You are an example for others and deserve to be commended.
Nikolic fails to mention the Serbian Volunteer Guard who rounded up Jews in 39' under the leadership of Serbian General Milan Nedic and handed them directly to the Nazi's. Draza was also executed by the anti fascist counsel for collaborating with the Germans-This is fact ! He is also fails to mention the systematic slaughter of young innocent civilians 8'000 officially 15'000 unofficially in Srebrenica. The Serbs are no better than their Nazi brothers. Give it up Serbia your no better than the Nazi's that invaded Europe... and you know it ! There is no more Serb lead YU to protect you from your lies.
@ Rocky what about ss. skanderbeg. you hypocrite
(Grobar1, 27 January 2015 19:53)
But the important thing is while mentioning SS Skenderbeg, we have to understand that Croats, Albanians and Bosnian Muslims murdered Jews while being EMPOWERED by Nazi Germany. Any crimes committed against Jews in Central Serbia happened because Serbia was bombed and then directly militarily occupied by Germans. It was an occupation which was met with Serbs mobilizing to make up the majority of both anti-fascist resistance groups. Serbia's neighbors never viewed Nazi Germany as an occupation, but rather as liberation.
This is the first time that I know of that a representative of Israel has called the Belgrade regime to task for its lies and pretense about "being the best friend of the Jews", bla bla bla. In each of these ceremonies, the Belgrade regime distorts (lies about) the Holocaust, leaves out significant facts about native fascist collaboration, which was widespread and absolutely facilitated the mass death of Jews inside Serbian territory.
Each of the various groups in ex Yugoslavia was represented on all sides, in very complex ways. The belgrade regime has totally distorted the truth, and gotten away with it for too long, but no more. The truth has finally emerged...
Rocky seems think that because death camps were located in present day Serbia, that must be all the proof one needs to conclude Serbs were collaborators.
Except that the death camps were in NDH-controlled territory and run by Ustasha up to the northern and western banks of the Sava.
And the prisoners were Serbs along with Jews.
It's these little details that constantly get in the way of Rocky trying to make sense. But when his goal is to simply fart out something anti-Serbian for an article that writes about the 70th anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz, I'm fairly sure being historically accurate wasn't part of this kid's intentions.
why am I not surprised by the nonsense you spew? because its you.. Yet again twisting some that happened in history and attaching links that having nothing to do with the article at hand. It's clear to all of us on this forum that people like you, azir and a few other nut jobs have NOTHING BETTER TO DO then perpetuate hate, disunity and racism. Listen Susan, we all know you and your ilk are scared, fearful people with a massive inferiority complex's,WE GET IT!! Just remember KARMA's a bitch and nothing, ever disappears from the internet.
Of the 650000 serbian victims, all of them you and the world mourne today, however more
thinking is necessary to why 16.000 000 Mio Germans died and were displaced in the same war, most of them never joined the Nazi Regime. Not to forget about the 6 000 000 of jewes. They just were innocent working citizens misused by some foolish.
Rocky, your grasp of history is laughable as well as reading into what Ambassador Levy was trying to say. See Serbia was bombed by Germany, it's territory was amputated and given to Serbia's neighbors and then directly militarily occupied (sound familiar?!)....
Germany's military was stationed in Central Serbia and in the processes, they got one Serb by the name of Milan Nedic to act as a intermediary for the occupation. So because of this one Serb, "Serbs were collaborators", right?!
Except Serbs made up the majority of the two anti-fascist resistance groups, the Chetniks and the Partizans. So that was their response to German occupation and dismemberment. What about the 'kosovars'? Yes it's true Jews were saved in Albania, but in Kosovo-Metohija, the Albanian community there formed the SS Skenderbeg which committed all sorts of atrocities against Serbs, Jews and Roma.
So what ever happened in central Serbia, happened under German military occupation. What happened with the Albanians in Kosovo-Metohija happened under SS Skenderbeg which received empowerment by the Germans, not bombing and occupation.
“many Serbs in the WW2 time era were in fact nazi collaborators!”
How dare you! Outside the USSR two Yugoslavian armies composed of both parts of the Serbs made the biggest antifascist force on the continent. UK conducted their “Strange War” provoking Hitler by sending bombers to the cities of Reich. Who else was fighting Hitler before the Russians came? Maybe you it was Armia Kraiova sitting with their wives for 3 years? Or the Americans engaged in their colonial war against Japan? I really think that one of the biggest mistakes Stalin made was helping the D-Day Overlord Operation launching the Wisla-Oder Operation. It was a fatal mistake as we were able to end the war by ourselves. The only nation in Europe that can be proud of their ancestors is the Serbs including the Montenegrins. All the rest one way or another were part of the Axis including France, Croats, Poles, Hungary, Netherland, Albanians - total 17 states. We killed many of them but for 3 years we had only one real ally on the continent and those were the Serbs. They suffered the biggest after the USSR combat losses. Others joined us in 1944 while Serbs rebelled in 1941 before Hitler came. So you must kiss ass of every single Serb you meet and it must be written into the Albanian Constitution! If other peoples acted like the Serbs did no Holocaust could ever happen.
There were some collaborators which were Serbs but only a small minority. The first armed resistance against the Nazis in Europe (in the world) was by the Chetniks under General Draža Mihailović. On the other hand most other forces in the Balkans were collaborators, the Ustaša regime of Ante Pavelić were among the most brutal of the Nazi's allies which the vast majority of Croats supported. They ran the Jasenovac death camp notorious for it's brutal killing methods shocking even Nazi generals. The Ustaše were assisted by Bosnian Muslims the majority of whom were collaborators, the SS Handžar division was especially for them. Likewise with the Albanians, their SS Division was called SS Skenderbeg. We must not forget the Tito's communists also at times when it suited them collaborated with the Nazis and their puppet forces in the Balkans, and at the end of the war hugely played down the number of Serbs, Jews and Gypsies murdered at Jasenovac to keep the Serbs down.
Victory Over Fascism? What has changed for Eastern Orthodox Slavic people living in Europe since 1945? Again Germany armed by Satan wants to rule all of Europe! All Eastern Orthodox Slavic people in Europe with economic sanctions and isolation from free and open markets! In the Balkans Serbia facing the threat of massive bombing if they even blink their eye! How can we Eastern Orthodox Slavic people in Europe continue to live like that in constant fear of death and deprived of economic freedom? Serbian people in the Balkans their land, property, rights and freedom taken away by Satan and next probably their lives! The "Final Solution" that Hitler did in Germany to Jewish people again repeated today in Serbia! March 24, 1999 the day Satan demonstrated to the world that Hitlers filty and dirty spirit lingers in the souls of the mortal among us today! The Holocast of the Serbian people, total murdered actually around two million when you add all acounts. Serbian people divided among our self's, our worst enemy! Today again Serbia divided, will we stay with the Satanic West and continue to suffer with the dream of EU prosperity or will we face East as we do when we pray to our Heavenly Lord Crucified and Holy and join our true Motherland Russia? Today Russia the most powerfull military nation on the face of the earth! Who will dare murder us and steal our sacred lands when we are joined to our Mother Russia? Vostani Serbije Davno Si Zaspala U Mraku Lezala Sada se Probudi
Ambassador levy is pointing to the fact that many Serbs in the WW2 time era were in fact nazi collaborators! Serbian leaders for years has tried to conceal this part of their history, however now ambassador Levy is telling the Serbian leadership that the truth has to be completely revealed to the world, this so as to make the necessary facts available & not just some altered historical facts which have been altered for many years, by many Serbian officials!
http://youtu.be/lLSAEwi19GY
Ambassador levy is pointing to the fact that many Serbs in the WW2 time era were in fact nazi collaborators! Serbian leaders for years has tried to conceal this part of their history, however now ambassador Levy is telling the Serbian leadership that the truth has to be completely revealed to the world, this so as to make the necessary facts available & not just some altered historical facts which have been altered for many years, by many Serbian officials!
http://youtu.be/lLSAEwi19GY
Rocky, your grasp of history is laughable as well as reading into what Ambassador Levy was trying to say. See Serbia was bombed by Germany, it's territory was amputated and given to Serbia's neighbors and then directly militarily occupied (sound familiar?!)....
Germany's military was stationed in Central Serbia and in the processes, they got one Serb by the name of Milan Nedic to act as a intermediary for the occupation. So because of this one Serb, "Serbs were collaborators", right?!
Except Serbs made up the majority of the two anti-fascist resistance groups, the Chetniks and the Partizans. So that was their response to German occupation and dismemberment. What about the 'kosovars'? Yes it's true Jews were saved in Albania, but in Kosovo-Metohija, the Albanian community there formed the SS Skenderbeg which committed all sorts of atrocities against Serbs, Jews and Roma.
So what ever happened in central Serbia, happened under German military occupation. What happened with the Albanians in Kosovo-Metohija happened under SS Skenderbeg which received empowerment by the Germans, not bombing and occupation.
why am I not surprised by the nonsense you spew? because its you.. Yet again twisting some that happened in history and attaching links that having nothing to do with the article at hand. It's clear to all of us on this forum that people like you, azir and a few other nut jobs have NOTHING BETTER TO DO then perpetuate hate, disunity and racism. Listen Susan, we all know you and your ilk are scared, fearful people with a massive inferiority complex's,WE GET IT!! Just remember KARMA's a bitch and nothing, ever disappears from the internet.
“many Serbs in the WW2 time era were in fact nazi collaborators!”
How dare you! Outside the USSR two Yugoslavian armies composed of both parts of the Serbs made the biggest antifascist force on the continent. UK conducted their “Strange War” provoking Hitler by sending bombers to the cities of Reich. Who else was fighting Hitler before the Russians came? Maybe you it was Armia Kraiova sitting with their wives for 3 years? Or the Americans engaged in their colonial war against Japan? I really think that one of the biggest mistakes Stalin made was helping the D-Day Overlord Operation launching the Wisla-Oder Operation. It was a fatal mistake as we were able to end the war by ourselves. The only nation in Europe that can be proud of their ancestors is the Serbs including the Montenegrins. All the rest one way or another were part of the Axis including France, Croats, Poles, Hungary, Netherland, Albanians - total 17 states. We killed many of them but for 3 years we had only one real ally on the continent and those were the Serbs. They suffered the biggest after the USSR combat losses. Others joined us in 1944 while Serbs rebelled in 1941 before Hitler came. So you must kiss ass of every single Serb you meet and it must be written into the Albanian Constitution! If other peoples acted like the Serbs did no Holocaust could ever happen.
@ Rocky what about ss. skanderbeg. you hypocrite
(Grobar1, 27 January 2015 19:53)
But the important thing is while mentioning SS Skenderbeg, we have to understand that Croats, Albanians and Bosnian Muslims murdered Jews while being EMPOWERED by Nazi Germany. Any crimes committed against Jews in Central Serbia happened because Serbia was bombed and then directly militarily occupied by Germans. It was an occupation which was met with Serbs mobilizing to make up the majority of both anti-fascist resistance groups. Serbia's neighbors never viewed Nazi Germany as an occupation, but rather as liberation.
There were some collaborators which were Serbs but only a small minority. The first armed resistance against the Nazis in Europe (in the world) was by the Chetniks under General Draža Mihailović. On the other hand most other forces in the Balkans were collaborators, the Ustaša regime of Ante Pavelić were among the most brutal of the Nazi's allies which the vast majority of Croats supported. They ran the Jasenovac death camp notorious for it's brutal killing methods shocking even Nazi generals. The Ustaše were assisted by Bosnian Muslims the majority of whom were collaborators, the SS Handžar division was especially for them. Likewise with the Albanians, their SS Division was called SS Skenderbeg. We must not forget the Tito's communists also at times when it suited them collaborated with the Nazis and their puppet forces in the Balkans, and at the end of the war hugely played down the number of Serbs, Jews and Gypsies murdered at Jasenovac to keep the Serbs down.
Rocky seems think that because death camps were located in present day Serbia, that must be all the proof one needs to conclude Serbs were collaborators.
Except that the death camps were in NDH-controlled territory and run by Ustasha up to the northern and western banks of the Sava.
And the prisoners were Serbs along with Jews.
It's these little details that constantly get in the way of Rocky trying to make sense. But when his goal is to simply fart out something anti-Serbian for an article that writes about the 70th anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz, I'm fairly sure being historically accurate wasn't part of this kid's intentions.
Nikolic fails to mention the Serbian Volunteer Guard who rounded up Jews in 39' under the leadership of Serbian General Milan Nedic and handed them directly to the Nazi's. Draza was also executed by the anti fascist counsel for collaborating with the Germans-This is fact ! He is also fails to mention the systematic slaughter of young innocent civilians 8'000 officially 15'000 unofficially in Srebrenica. The Serbs are no better than their Nazi brothers. Give it up Serbia your no better than the Nazi's that invaded Europe... and you know it ! There is no more Serb lead YU to protect you from your lies.
This is the first time that I know of that a representative of Israel has called the Belgrade regime to task for its lies
The belgrade regime has totally distorted the truth, and gotten away with it for too long, but no more. The truth has finally emerged...
(roberto, 27 January 2015 21:35)
You are misconstruing what the Ambassador was saying. He simply stated the fact that Jews were murdered in Staro Sajmiste. This fact has never been disputed or covered up by absolutely anybody.
The difference is that Serbia resisted Nazi Germany and subsequently, Belgrade was bombed because of it and then directly occupied by the German military.
The Serbian state nor the Serbian people aren't held responsible for something that happened during an occupation. What was the Serbian answer to that occupation? Forming the majority of two anti-Nazi fronts-the Chetniks and Partizans.
Meanwhile the Nazi State of Croatia that killed at least 700, 000 Serbs, Jews and Roma were loyal clients of the Nazis until the very end.
Ambassador levy is pointing to the fact that many Serbs in the WW2 time era were in fact nazi collaborators! Serbian leaders for years has tried to conceal this part of their history, however now ambassador Levy is telling the Serbian leadership that the truth has to be completely revealed to the world, this so as to make the necessary facts available & not just some altered historical facts which have been altered for many years, by many Serbian officials!
http://youtu.be/lLSAEwi19GY
Ambassador levy is pointing to the fact that many Serbs in the WW2 time era were in fact nazi collaborators! Serbian leaders for years has tried to conceal this part of their history, however now ambassador Levy is telling the Serbian leadership that the truth has to be completely revealed to the world, this so as to make the necessary facts available & not just some altered historical facts which have been altered for many years, by many Serbian officials!
http://youtu.be/lLSAEwi19GY
Albania after ww2 was the only country in Europe with a larger jewish population then prior to the war.
(Skifteri, 28 January 2015 00:52)
I've never disputed that. From what I understand, that is indeed the truth. But in Kosovo-Metohija, the Albanians there did form the SS Skenderbeg which was responsible for thousands of murders of Serbs, Jews and Roma. So fine, let's differentiate. Albanians helped Jews but their primitive 'kosovar' cousins were definitely some of the biggest Nazi puppets 2nd only to Croatia.
And anyway, no one has a problem with Albania. It's the Albanians who think everywhere they settle becomes Albania that people have a problem with.l
Nikolic fails to mention the Serbian Volunteer Guard who rounded up Jews in 39' under the leadership of Serbian General Milan Nedic and handed them directly to the Nazi's.
(Bam Bam, 27 January 2015 22:21)
WWII did not reach Yugoslavia until the bombing of Belgrade in 1941, not 39. All your other trash wont be dignified because you vomited all over the rest of your comment with that one.
This is the first time that I know of that a representative of Israel has called the Belgrade regime to task for its lies
The belgrade regime has totally distorted the truth, and gotten away with it for too long, but no more. The truth has finally emerged...
(roberto, 27 January 2015 21:35)
Your literacy problem is getting worse by the month. Get someone to translate it to you in Albanian and then you might understand.
Victory Over Fascism? What has changed for Eastern Orthodox Slavic people living in Europe since 1945? Again Germany armed by Satan wants to rule all of Europe! All Eastern Orthodox Slavic people in Europe with economic sanctions and isolation from free and open markets! In the Balkans Serbia facing the threat of massive bombing if they even blink their eye! How can we Eastern Orthodox Slavic people in Europe continue to live like that in constant fear of death and deprived of economic freedom? Serbian people in the Balkans their land, property, rights and freedom taken away by Satan and next probably their lives! The "Final Solution" that Hitler did in Germany to Jewish people again repeated today in Serbia! March 24, 1999 the day Satan demonstrated to the world that Hitlers filty and dirty spirit lingers in the souls of the mortal among us today! The Holocast of the Serbian people, total murdered actually around two million when you add all acounts. Serbian people divided among our self's, our worst enemy! Today again Serbia divided, will we stay with the Satanic West and continue to suffer with the dream of EU prosperity or will we face East as we do when we pray to our Heavenly Lord Crucified and Holy and join our true Motherland Russia? Today Russia the most powerfull military nation on the face of the earth! Who will dare murder us and steal our sacred lands when we are joined to our Mother Russia? Vostani Serbije Davno Si Zaspala U Mraku Lezala Sada se Probudi
This is the first time that I know of that a representative of Israel has called the Belgrade regime to task for its lies and pretense about "being the best friend of the Jews", bla bla bla. In each of these ceremonies, the Belgrade regime distorts (lies about) the Holocaust, leaves out significant facts about native fascist collaboration, which was widespread and absolutely facilitated the mass death of Jews inside Serbian territory.
Each of the various groups in ex Yugoslavia was represented on all sides, in very complex ways. The belgrade regime has totally distorted the truth, and gotten away with it for too long, but no more. The truth has finally emerged...
In each of these ceremonies, the Belgrade regime distorts (lies about) the Holocaust, leaves out significant facts about native fascist collaboration, which was widespread and absolutely facilitated the mass death of Jews inside Serbian territory.
(roberto, 27 January 2015 21:35)
roberto, please provide factual evidence where there was active Serb collaboration with the Nazis in rounding up Jews and other undesirables for the death camps.
And no roberto, Philip Cohen's horrible book Serbia's Secret War doesn't count as evidence since Cohen is an avowedly Croatian apologist, an open supporter of Tudjman, and is considered a schlock scholar of the worst kind.
Put the money you don't have where your mouth is always inviting itself in. And try not to reply back with empty anti-Serb rhetoric or worn out cliched statements of truth, justice, and human rights you fall back on when you have nothing of substance to provide.
You may just want to ignore this call for information like you do every other time someone calls you out on your BS since you know you've got nothing other than your pathological intolerance for Serbs. But if you do decide to be a "man" and back your accusations up, I'm sure we'd all be curious to see what you've got.
The only fact is that you croats are the worst butchers in the history of human mankind along with your fellow nazi brethren.
"In World War II, Hitler had no executioners more willing, no ally more passionate, than the fascists of Croatia," A. M. Rosenthal wrote in The Times.
"In World War II, Hitler had no executioners more willing, no ally more passionate, than the fascists of Croatia," A. M. Rosenthal wrote in The
http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2007-01-16/news/0701160085_1_croatia-serbs-war-ii
Old habits are hard to break. "In World War II, Hitler had no executioners more willing, no ally more passionate, than the fascists of Croatia," A. M. Rosenthal wrote in The New York Times in 1998. "They are returning, 50 years later, from what should have been their eternal grave, the defeat of Nazi Germany. The Western Allies who dug that grave with the bodies of their servicemen have the power to stop them, but do not."
In 1995, The London Evening Standard's Edward Pearce wrote that "you can understand Croatia best by saying flatly that if there is one place in the world where a statue of Adolf Hitler would be revered, it would be Zagreb," Croatia's capital.
Draza was also executed by the anti fascist counsel for collaborating with the Germans-This is fact !
(Bam Bam, 27 January 2015 22:21)
No, he was executed because he was Tito's biggest rival. That he was passed off as a fascist was a way of justifying his trial. That's the fact. Your's is, like everything else you write, made up crap.
Collaborators are not wanted by Nazis with promises of reward.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4e/DMihailovic_poternica.jpg
Ari Gold the so called Jewish Balkan historian once again fails to mention Ljotic & Nedic. Where were you educated ?
(Bam Bam, 28 January 2015 08:52)
Bam Bam, the sometimes pro-Ustasha, sometimes pro-KLA American not only feels the need to accuse someone else of being Jewish (as if that's a bad thing), but once again tries to pin an argument on Nedic and Ljotic, as if that implicates Serbia's role in Nazi collaboration.
Nedic was pro-Axis member of the Royal Yugoslav Army and other than governing what was left of Axis-controlled Serbia did absolutely nothing. He received little respect from Serbs and almost no attention from Germany. His claim for "collaboration" was discouraging Serbs from resisting due to the known law that for every 1 German killed, 50 Serbs would be killed in return. Other than that, there is no connection between him and death camps.
Ljotic was the quisling leader of Zbor, the only Nazi-supported political party in Nazi-occupied Serbia. Before 1941, Zbor received little more than 1% of electoral support from the population and during the war despite efforts by the Nazis to promote him, he received no attention from ordinary Serbs. He even actively campaigned against Draza Mihailovic. He was even more irrelevant than Nedic and also has no connection to any of the death camps in Serbia.
Sorry Bam Bam, once again you're left grasping straws. Don't question anyone else's education when you can't even bother to learn it yourself.
"We now entered the concentration camp in a converted factory. Appalling conditions. A handful of men, many women and children, without enough clothing, sleeping on a stone tablet at night, screams all around, cries and sobbing. The camp commander – a scoundrel – I ignored him, but instead told my Ustasha guide: "This is enough to make a person vomit"
"And then worst of all: a room along whose walls, lay on straw which had just been brought for my inspection, something like fifty naked children, half of them dead, the other half dying. We should not forget that the inventors of concentrations camps were the British during the Boer War. However, these camps have reached the height of hideousness here in Croatia, under the Poglavnik [Ustasha leader] installed by us. The greatest of all evils must be Jasenovac, which no ordinary mortal can glimpse"
Just some of his testimonies, coming from a Nazi and how shocked even he was I think that says it all about the Croatian involvement in the Holocaust. As horrific as Hitler's methods were, those by the Croats were well above and beyond in terms of their brutality and sickness.
"The Jews and the Serbs are part of the same history chapter, which we should read together, with eyes wide open, with courage and friendship," the Israeli ambassador said."
Bravo, Ambassador Levy, for promoting peace and friendship. You are an example for others and deserve to be commended.
Rocky seems think that because death camps were located in present day Serbia, that must be all the proof one needs to conclude Serbs were collaborators.
----------------------------
You're right. With that sort of reasoning we then must conclude that the Poles were worse monsters than the Nazis. They had the notorious Auschwitz.
Nobody beats Nazi Croatia, Muslim Bosnia and Nazi Albanians. They were German puppets and they think they have any right to talk about others.
Of the 650000 serbian victims, all of them you and the world mourne today, however more
thinking is necessary to why 16.000 000 Mio Germans died and were displaced in the same war, most of them never joined the Nazi Regime. Not to forget about the 6 000 000 of jewes. They just were innocent working citizens misused by some foolish.
In Holocaust main words are USSR and SOVIET ARMY while none of them was mentioned here … To say nothing that same very day Russia celebrates end of the 900 day blockade of Leningrad that cost us 1 440 000 lives. Unlike fascist Poroshenko Putin was not invited to Oswentsim and Polish FM said it those were the Ukrainians who set the camp free in 1944. Earlier Obama said his grandpa had set Oswentsim free … Who else is here to tell his HOW I WON THE WAR STORIES ?
“roberto, please provide factual evidence where there was active Serb collaboration with the Nazis in rounding up Jews”
There are lots of myths about the Holocaust :
1/ As if 40% of the Jews were eliminated. In fact it could be 15-20% that is less than Byelorussians estimated from 25 to 33%.
2/ As if all the Jews were eliminated. In fact Zionist Jews that composed 3% of the German Jews were prospering there all the time. They had their newspapers and served in Wermaht. Goering even once said (about one Jewish General) that it was him to decide who was a Jew and who was not. Without help of the Zionists Holocaust would be not that tragic as the Germans had no lists of the Jews while most of them had German names.
3/ As if the Jews were eliminated all the time. In fact the real massacre started only in 1942 as a result of the defeat near Moscow.
4/ As if all the Axis states were equal participants in Holocaust. In fact Italy saved all their Jews after Benito said that in Italy there are no Jews and all of them are Italians. During Mussolini only 9 men were executed and none of them was a Jew.
5/ As if Jews equally suffered on all occupied territories. In fact in Estonia they killed 100% of the Jews while in the mainland USSR the Jews suffered even less than the Russians. Because in 1941 they were evacuated first.
The sate of Israel recognizes the Albanian people a righteous among the nations for refusing to hand over jews to the Nazis.
A short search will inform you that Albanians refused to hand over the jews to the nazis and protected all Jewish people on Albanian inhabited lands by hiding them and helping them blend with the rest of the population.
Albania after ww2 was the only country in Europe with a larger jewish population then prior to the war.
Germany's military was stationed in Central Serbia and in the processes, they got one Serb by the name of Milan Nedic to act as a intermediary for the occupation. So because of this one Serb, "Serbs were collaborators", right?!
(Ari Gold, 27 January 2015 19:47)
Yes, you are right. That's the logic of some Serbs... make sure you guys sort it out :)
Today's fascist chetniks refuse to accept their fascist, anti-semitic chetnik past - that's their problem. At some point they will have to own up to the native fascist element, supported so strongly by the church, reinforced though the ww2 fasicst collaborationist government and their native fascist soldiers, police and chetnik terrorists. Time for the lies are gone - even Israeli politicians are finally getting wise.
Serbia strongly and desperately needs de-nazification, starting with their media...
Today's fascist chetniks refuse to accept their fascist, anti-semitic chetnik past - that's their problem. At some point they will have to own up to the native fascist element, supported so strongly by the church, reinforced though the ww2 fasicst collaborationist government and their native fascist soldiers, police and chetnik terrorists. Time for the lies are gone - even Israeli politicians are finally getting wise.
Serbia strongly and desperately needs de-nazification, starting with their media...
(roberto, 29 January 2015 21:19)
That's the best you can come up with roberto? FACTS man! Do you understand English? I asked you to put your money where your mouth is and all you did was provide me more mouth.
You're really pathetic man, that Serbian wife who divorced you must totaly really screwed you up in the head for you to have such an intense paranoia against a whole people and sound like some broken record.
You're nothing more than an ugly human being trying to pass yourself off as an activist. I can even see the mental degradation in your typing. Pathetic. Truly pathetic.
(rote, 27 January 2015 19:49)
Always wondered how the Russians viewed themselves in WW2, I guess in your eyes the whole world owes you for singlehandedly freeing Europe? But what about the Russian treatment of Jews post WW2?, Even today?
But it is ironic that Serbs even mention the Holocaust as that was the real reason for the bombing of Serbia in 1999. Europe has always been criticized because they did not act quickly enough to stop Hitler which resulted in the deaths of millions of innocent victims, they could not allow history to show modern day Europe sit idly by and allow Milosevic to do the same thing.
Serbs scoff at the comparison in Hitler and Milosevic but the 2 biggest differences were time and effeciency. The goals were the same.
To make a true comparison we would have had to let him exterminate all the Albanians but we did not allow that.
(a New day, 30 January 2015 14:43)
Correct, but I don't recall reading about any "Final Solution" to the "Albanian Problem" in Milosevic's haphazard strategy of national defense. I don't recall any systematic effort at deliberately targeting every person of one particular ethno/religious identity. I also don't remember Milosevic consulting with Yugoslav High Command in planning on invading Albania either.
Comparing everyone and everything one doesn't like to Nazis is thrown around far too liberally and glibly these days. I know this is veritable Golden Rule on Internet debates, but it just cheapens the credibility of one's argument.
Something can't be "not allowed" if it never materialized in the first place.
Today's fascist chetniks refuse to accept their fascist, anti-semitic chetnik past - that's their problem. At some point they will have to own up to the native fascist element, supported so strongly by the church, reinforced though the ww2 fasicst collaborationist government and their native fascist soldiers, police and chetnik terrorists. Time for the lies are gone - even Israeli politicians are finally getting wise.
Serbia strongly and desperately needs de-nazification, starting with their media...
(roberto, 29 January 2015 21:19)
LOL wow man, you wrote "fascist" five times. You sure you got whatever point you think you have across clearly enough? I have to agree with those who've responded to you before me: you're really sounding like a broken record with no point to make. Pretty rambling and incoherent as well - far less organized and collected as you used to sound.
Also, make sure you know what the words "fascist" and "nazi" are before you throw them around like a verbal tick even more than Netanyahu does when interviewed on Fox News. It doesn't say much to your intelligence when you try to pin that label on a country never practiced it, nor had a collaborationist government during the Second World War.
You sure you're even the real "roberto"? I mean it sounds like you, but you've never been this illogical and unhinged.
The goals were the same.
(a New Day, 28 January 2015 00:35)
The goals were far far from the same, Hitlers goal was to exterminate all jews and create a third reich, now do you have any proof whatsoever that this was what Milosevic wanted? Also, Hitler fought allower the world.
It is shameful and painful to read the terrible speech of the Serbian president. He is seperating Jews from Serbs mentioning different figures for the groups. I am sure that there were Serbian citizens of Jewish faith. It is dramatically how Serbia is facing the history with the renaming of many streets named after partisans. The rehabilitation of the cetnik-leader is not acceptable. Nikolic praises Germany in his speech, it is not a joke. And the PM expressed his hate opposite the democratic elected government in Greece, one of the rare countries supporting Serbia. Serbia seems to be on a totally wrong path.
The goals were far far from the same, Hitlers goal was to exterminate all jews and create a third reich, now do you have any proof whatsoever that this was what Milosevic wanted? Also, Hitler fought allower the world.
(Daniel, 28 January 2015 15:46)
Like I said the two main differences were time and efficiency, but actually there was a third, intelligence. Milosevic had goals without the intelligence to carry them out.
Hitler went all over Europe with his goals, but that took years to get there. That is one reason Milosevic had to be stopped before his aspirations grew. To make a true comparison we would have had to let him exterminate all the Albanians but we did not allow that.
Comparing everyone and everything one doesn't like to Nazis is thrown around far too liberally and glibly these days. I know this is veritable Golden Rule on Internet debates, but it just cheapens the credibility of one's argument.
Something can't be "not allowed" if it never materialized in the first place.
(Balkan Anthropologist, 30 January 2015 16:38)
I almost cracked a gut on that one, as it is hard to read a single comments section on B92 without Serbs calling Albanians or Croats Nazis. But more to the point, I never meant they were exactly the same but Milosevic was stopped before his aspirations could manifest to Hitlers level. It is evident that he wanted to promote what he thought was the master race (truly a wrong thought) but he wanted an ethnically pure greater Serbia. They have him on video saying Serbs were the only ones that knew how to handle the Albanians. But his goal was to cleanse Kosovo of Albanians by whatever means he had to use. A personality like that only wants MORE power, they are never satisfied with what they have. If Europe and the US had allowed him to complete his task in Kosovo, he would have moved on to other tasks.
I think everyone can agree the Holocaust was a great shame on those that waited so long to stop it. Should they have not learned anything and waited for Milosevic to reach that point before acting again?
Holocaust??? Auschwitz?? Why serbs don't talk about Srebrenica??? The biggest massacre in Europe after Holocaust??? Did any Serbian feels guilty, or apologizet for that???
Ambassador levy is pointing to the fact that many Serbs in the WW2 time era were in fact nazi collaborators! Serbian leaders for years has tried to conceal this part of their history, however now ambassador Levy is telling the Serbian leadership that the truth has to be completely revealed to the world, this so as to make the necessary facts available & not just some altered historical facts which have been altered for many years, by many Serbian officials!
http://youtu.be/lLSAEwi19GY
Ambassador levy is pointing to the fact that many Serbs in the WW2 time era were in fact nazi collaborators! Serbian leaders for years has tried to conceal this part of their history, however now ambassador Levy is telling the Serbian leadership that the truth has to be completely revealed to the world, this so as to make the necessary facts available & not just some altered historical facts which have been altered for many years, by many Serbian officials!
http://youtu.be/lLSAEwi19GY
Nikolic fails to mention the Serbian Volunteer Guard who rounded up Jews in 39' under the leadership of Serbian General Milan Nedic and handed them directly to the Nazi's. Draza was also executed by the anti fascist counsel for collaborating with the Germans-This is fact ! He is also fails to mention the systematic slaughter of young innocent civilians 8'000 officially 15'000 unofficially in Srebrenica. The Serbs are no better than their Nazi brothers. Give it up Serbia your no better than the Nazi's that invaded Europe... and you know it ! There is no more Serb lead YU to protect you from your lies.
“many Serbs in the WW2 time era were in fact nazi collaborators!”
How dare you! Outside the USSR two Yugoslavian armies composed of both parts of the Serbs made the biggest antifascist force on the continent. UK conducted their “Strange War” provoking Hitler by sending bombers to the cities of Reich. Who else was fighting Hitler before the Russians came? Maybe you it was Armia Kraiova sitting with their wives for 3 years? Or the Americans engaged in their colonial war against Japan? I really think that one of the biggest mistakes Stalin made was helping the D-Day Overlord Operation launching the Wisla-Oder Operation. It was a fatal mistake as we were able to end the war by ourselves. The only nation in Europe that can be proud of their ancestors is the Serbs including the Montenegrins. All the rest one way or another were part of the Axis including France, Croats, Poles, Hungary, Netherland, Albanians - total 17 states. We killed many of them but for 3 years we had only one real ally on the continent and those were the Serbs. They suffered the biggest after the USSR combat losses. Others joined us in 1944 while Serbs rebelled in 1941 before Hitler came. So you must kiss ass of every single Serb you meet and it must be written into the Albanian Constitution! If other peoples acted like the Serbs did no Holocaust could ever happen.
Victory Over Fascism? What has changed for Eastern Orthodox Slavic people living in Europe since 1945? Again Germany armed by Satan wants to rule all of Europe! All Eastern Orthodox Slavic people in Europe with economic sanctions and isolation from free and open markets! In the Balkans Serbia facing the threat of massive bombing if they even blink their eye! How can we Eastern Orthodox Slavic people in Europe continue to live like that in constant fear of death and deprived of economic freedom? Serbian people in the Balkans their land, property, rights and freedom taken away by Satan and next probably their lives! The "Final Solution" that Hitler did in Germany to Jewish people again repeated today in Serbia! March 24, 1999 the day Satan demonstrated to the world that Hitlers filty and dirty spirit lingers in the souls of the mortal among us today! The Holocast of the Serbian people, total murdered actually around two million when you add all acounts. Serbian people divided among our self's, our worst enemy! Today again Serbia divided, will we stay with the Satanic West and continue to suffer with the dream of EU prosperity or will we face East as we do when we pray to our Heavenly Lord Crucified and Holy and join our true Motherland Russia? Today Russia the most powerfull military nation on the face of the earth! Who will dare murder us and steal our sacred lands when we are joined to our Mother Russia? Vostani Serbije Davno Si Zaspala U Mraku Lezala Sada se Probudi
This is the first time that I know of that a representative of Israel has called the Belgrade regime to task for its lies and pretense about "being the best friend of the Jews", bla bla bla. In each of these ceremonies, the Belgrade regime distorts (lies about) the Holocaust, leaves out significant facts about native fascist collaboration, which was widespread and absolutely facilitated the mass death of Jews inside Serbian territory.
Each of the various groups in ex Yugoslavia was represented on all sides, in very complex ways. The belgrade regime has totally distorted the truth, and gotten away with it for too long, but no more. The truth has finally emerged...
Rocky, your grasp of history is laughable as well as reading into what Ambassador Levy was trying to say. See Serbia was bombed by Germany, it's territory was amputated and given to Serbia's neighbors and then directly militarily occupied (sound familiar?!)....
Germany's military was stationed in Central Serbia and in the processes, they got one Serb by the name of Milan Nedic to act as a intermediary for the occupation. So because of this one Serb, "Serbs were collaborators", right?!
Except Serbs made up the majority of the two anti-fascist resistance groups, the Chetniks and the Partizans. So that was their response to German occupation and dismemberment. What about the 'kosovars'? Yes it's true Jews were saved in Albania, but in Kosovo-Metohija, the Albanian community there formed the SS Skenderbeg which committed all sorts of atrocities against Serbs, Jews and Roma.
So what ever happened in central Serbia, happened under German military occupation. What happened with the Albanians in Kosovo-Metohija happened under SS Skenderbeg which received empowerment by the Germans, not bombing and occupation.
@ Rocky what about ss. skanderbeg. you hypocrite
(Grobar1, 27 January 2015 19:53)
But the important thing is while mentioning SS Skenderbeg, we have to understand that Croats, Albanians and Bosnian Muslims murdered Jews while being EMPOWERED by Nazi Germany. Any crimes committed against Jews in Central Serbia happened because Serbia was bombed and then directly militarily occupied by Germans. It was an occupation which was met with Serbs mobilizing to make up the majority of both anti-fascist resistance groups. Serbia's neighbors never viewed Nazi Germany as an occupation, but rather as liberation.
There were some collaborators which were Serbs but only a small minority. The first armed resistance against the Nazis in Europe (in the world) was by the Chetniks under General Draža Mihailović. On the other hand most other forces in the Balkans were collaborators, the Ustaša regime of Ante Pavelić were among the most brutal of the Nazi's allies which the vast majority of Croats supported. They ran the Jasenovac death camp notorious for it's brutal killing methods shocking even Nazi generals. The Ustaše were assisted by Bosnian Muslims the majority of whom were collaborators, the SS Handžar division was especially for them. Likewise with the Albanians, their SS Division was called SS Skenderbeg. We must not forget the Tito's communists also at times when it suited them collaborated with the Nazis and their puppet forces in the Balkans, and at the end of the war hugely played down the number of Serbs, Jews and Gypsies murdered at Jasenovac to keep the Serbs down.
Rocky seems think that because death camps were located in present day Serbia, that must be all the proof one needs to conclude Serbs were collaborators.
----------------------------
You're right. With that sort of reasoning we then must conclude that the Poles were worse monsters than the Nazis. They had the notorious Auschwitz.
Nobody beats Nazi Croatia, Muslim Bosnia and Nazi Albanians. They were German puppets and they think they have any right to talk about others.
Nikolic fails to mention the Serbian Volunteer Guard who rounded up Jews in 39' under the leadership of Serbian General Milan Nedic and handed them directly to the Nazi's.
(Bam Bam, 27 January 2015 22:21)
WWII did not reach Yugoslavia until the bombing of Belgrade in 1941, not 39. All your other trash wont be dignified because you vomited all over the rest of your comment with that one.
The only fact is that you croats are the worst butchers in the history of human mankind along with your fellow nazi brethren.
"In World War II, Hitler had no executioners more willing, no ally more passionate, than the fascists of Croatia," A. M. Rosenthal wrote in The Times.
"In World War II, Hitler had no executioners more willing, no ally more passionate, than the fascists of Croatia," A. M. Rosenthal wrote in The
http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2007-01-16/news/0701160085_1_croatia-serbs-war-ii
Old habits are hard to break. "In World War II, Hitler had no executioners more willing, no ally more passionate, than the fascists of Croatia," A. M. Rosenthal wrote in The New York Times in 1998. "They are returning, 50 years later, from what should have been their eternal grave, the defeat of Nazi Germany. The Western Allies who dug that grave with the bodies of their servicemen have the power to stop them, but do not."
In 1995, The London Evening Standard's Edward Pearce wrote that "you can understand Croatia best by saying flatly that if there is one place in the world where a statue of Adolf Hitler would be revered, it would be Zagreb," Croatia's capital.
Rocky seems think that because death camps were located in present day Serbia, that must be all the proof one needs to conclude Serbs were collaborators.
Except that the death camps were in NDH-controlled territory and run by Ustasha up to the northern and western banks of the Sava.
And the prisoners were Serbs along with Jews.
It's these little details that constantly get in the way of Rocky trying to make sense. But when his goal is to simply fart out something anti-Serbian for an article that writes about the 70th anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz, I'm fairly sure being historically accurate wasn't part of this kid's intentions.
Germany's military was stationed in Central Serbia and in the processes, they got one Serb by the name of Milan Nedic to act as a intermediary for the occupation. So because of this one Serb, "Serbs were collaborators", right?!
(Ari Gold, 27 January 2015 19:47)
Yes, you are right. That's the logic of some Serbs... make sure you guys sort it out :)
This is the first time that I know of that a representative of Israel has called the Belgrade regime to task for its lies
The belgrade regime has totally distorted the truth, and gotten away with it for too long, but no more. The truth has finally emerged...
(roberto, 27 January 2015 21:35)
You are misconstruing what the Ambassador was saying. He simply stated the fact that Jews were murdered in Staro Sajmiste. This fact has never been disputed or covered up by absolutely anybody.
The difference is that Serbia resisted Nazi Germany and subsequently, Belgrade was bombed because of it and then directly occupied by the German military.
The Serbian state nor the Serbian people aren't held responsible for something that happened during an occupation. What was the Serbian answer to that occupation? Forming the majority of two anti-Nazi fronts-the Chetniks and Partizans.
Meanwhile the Nazi State of Croatia that killed at least 700, 000 Serbs, Jews and Roma were loyal clients of the Nazis until the very end.
This is the first time that I know of that a representative of Israel has called the Belgrade regime to task for its lies
The belgrade regime has totally distorted the truth, and gotten away with it for too long, but no more. The truth has finally emerged...
(roberto, 27 January 2015 21:35)
Your literacy problem is getting worse by the month. Get someone to translate it to you in Albanian and then you might understand.
The goals were the same.
(a New Day, 28 January 2015 00:35)
The goals were far far from the same, Hitlers goal was to exterminate all jews and create a third reich, now do you have any proof whatsoever that this was what Milosevic wanted? Also, Hitler fought allower the world.
Albania after ww2 was the only country in Europe with a larger jewish population then prior to the war.
(Skifteri, 28 January 2015 00:52)
I've never disputed that. From what I understand, that is indeed the truth. But in Kosovo-Metohija, the Albanians there did form the SS Skenderbeg which was responsible for thousands of murders of Serbs, Jews and Roma. So fine, let's differentiate. Albanians helped Jews but their primitive 'kosovar' cousins were definitely some of the biggest Nazi puppets 2nd only to Croatia.
And anyway, no one has a problem with Albania. It's the Albanians who think everywhere they settle becomes Albania that people have a problem with.l
why am I not surprised by the nonsense you spew? because its you.. Yet again twisting some that happened in history and attaching links that having nothing to do with the article at hand. It's clear to all of us on this forum that people like you, azir and a few other nut jobs have NOTHING BETTER TO DO then perpetuate hate, disunity and racism. Listen Susan, we all know you and your ilk are scared, fearful people with a massive inferiority complex's,WE GET IT!! Just remember KARMA's a bitch and nothing, ever disappears from the internet.
Today's fascist chetniks refuse to accept their fascist, anti-semitic chetnik past - that's their problem. At some point they will have to own up to the native fascist element, supported so strongly by the church, reinforced though the ww2 fasicst collaborationist government and their native fascist soldiers, police and chetnik terrorists. Time for the lies are gone - even Israeli politicians are finally getting wise.
Serbia strongly and desperately needs de-nazification, starting with their media...
(rote, 27 January 2015 19:49)
Always wondered how the Russians viewed themselves in WW2, I guess in your eyes the whole world owes you for singlehandedly freeing Europe? But what about the Russian treatment of Jews post WW2?, Even today?
But it is ironic that Serbs even mention the Holocaust as that was the real reason for the bombing of Serbia in 1999. Europe has always been criticized because they did not act quickly enough to stop Hitler which resulted in the deaths of millions of innocent victims, they could not allow history to show modern day Europe sit idly by and allow Milosevic to do the same thing.
Serbs scoff at the comparison in Hitler and Milosevic but the 2 biggest differences were time and effeciency. The goals were the same.
In each of these ceremonies, the Belgrade regime distorts (lies about) the Holocaust, leaves out significant facts about native fascist collaboration, which was widespread and absolutely facilitated the mass death of Jews inside Serbian territory.
(roberto, 27 January 2015 21:35)
roberto, please provide factual evidence where there was active Serb collaboration with the Nazis in rounding up Jews and other undesirables for the death camps.
And no roberto, Philip Cohen's horrible book Serbia's Secret War doesn't count as evidence since Cohen is an avowedly Croatian apologist, an open supporter of Tudjman, and is considered a schlock scholar of the worst kind.
Put the money you don't have where your mouth is always inviting itself in. And try not to reply back with empty anti-Serb rhetoric or worn out cliched statements of truth, justice, and human rights you fall back on when you have nothing of substance to provide.
You may just want to ignore this call for information like you do every other time someone calls you out on your BS since you know you've got nothing other than your pathological intolerance for Serbs. But if you do decide to be a "man" and back your accusations up, I'm sure we'd all be curious to see what you've got.
Today's fascist chetniks refuse to accept their fascist, anti-semitic chetnik past - that's their problem. At some point they will have to own up to the native fascist element, supported so strongly by the church, reinforced though the ww2 fasicst collaborationist government and their native fascist soldiers, police and chetnik terrorists. Time for the lies are gone - even Israeli politicians are finally getting wise.
Serbia strongly and desperately needs de-nazification, starting with their media...
(roberto, 29 January 2015 21:19)
LOL wow man, you wrote "fascist" five times. You sure you got whatever point you think you have across clearly enough? I have to agree with those who've responded to you before me: you're really sounding like a broken record with no point to make. Pretty rambling and incoherent as well - far less organized and collected as you used to sound.
Also, make sure you know what the words "fascist" and "nazi" are before you throw them around like a verbal tick even more than Netanyahu does when interviewed on Fox News. It doesn't say much to your intelligence when you try to pin that label on a country never practiced it, nor had a collaborationist government during the Second World War.
You sure you're even the real "roberto"? I mean it sounds like you, but you've never been this illogical and unhinged.
"The Jews and the Serbs are part of the same history chapter, which we should read together, with eyes wide open, with courage and friendship," the Israeli ambassador said."
Bravo, Ambassador Levy, for promoting peace and friendship. You are an example for others and deserve to be commended.
The sate of Israel recognizes the Albanian people a righteous among the nations for refusing to hand over jews to the Nazis.
A short search will inform you that Albanians refused to hand over the jews to the nazis and protected all Jewish people on Albanian inhabited lands by hiding them and helping them blend with the rest of the population.
Albania after ww2 was the only country in Europe with a larger jewish population then prior to the war.
"We now entered the concentration camp in a converted factory. Appalling conditions. A handful of men, many women and children, without enough clothing, sleeping on a stone tablet at night, screams all around, cries and sobbing. The camp commander – a scoundrel – I ignored him, but instead told my Ustasha guide: "This is enough to make a person vomit"
"And then worst of all: a room along whose walls, lay on straw which had just been brought for my inspection, something like fifty naked children, half of them dead, the other half dying. We should not forget that the inventors of concentrations camps were the British during the Boer War. However, these camps have reached the height of hideousness here in Croatia, under the Poglavnik [Ustasha leader] installed by us. The greatest of all evils must be Jasenovac, which no ordinary mortal can glimpse"
Just some of his testimonies, coming from a Nazi and how shocked even he was I think that says it all about the Croatian involvement in the Holocaust. As horrific as Hitler's methods were, those by the Croats were well above and beyond in terms of their brutality and sickness.
In Holocaust main words are USSR and SOVIET ARMY while none of them was mentioned here … To say nothing that same very day Russia celebrates end of the 900 day blockade of Leningrad that cost us 1 440 000 lives. Unlike fascist Poroshenko Putin was not invited to Oswentsim and Polish FM said it those were the Ukrainians who set the camp free in 1944. Earlier Obama said his grandpa had set Oswentsim free … Who else is here to tell his HOW I WON THE WAR STORIES ?
Ari Gold the so called Jewish Balkan historian once again fails to mention Ljotic & Nedic. Where were you educated ?
(Bam Bam, 28 January 2015 08:52)
Bam Bam, the sometimes pro-Ustasha, sometimes pro-KLA American not only feels the need to accuse someone else of being Jewish (as if that's a bad thing), but once again tries to pin an argument on Nedic and Ljotic, as if that implicates Serbia's role in Nazi collaboration.
Nedic was pro-Axis member of the Royal Yugoslav Army and other than governing what was left of Axis-controlled Serbia did absolutely nothing. He received little respect from Serbs and almost no attention from Germany. His claim for "collaboration" was discouraging Serbs from resisting due to the known law that for every 1 German killed, 50 Serbs would be killed in return. Other than that, there is no connection between him and death camps.
Ljotic was the quisling leader of Zbor, the only Nazi-supported political party in Nazi-occupied Serbia. Before 1941, Zbor received little more than 1% of electoral support from the population and during the war despite efforts by the Nazis to promote him, he received no attention from ordinary Serbs. He even actively campaigned against Draza Mihailovic. He was even more irrelevant than Nedic and also has no connection to any of the death camps in Serbia.
Sorry Bam Bam, once again you're left grasping straws. Don't question anyone else's education when you can't even bother to learn it yourself.
Today's fascist chetniks refuse to accept their fascist, anti-semitic chetnik past - that's their problem. At some point they will have to own up to the native fascist element, supported so strongly by the church, reinforced though the ww2 fasicst collaborationist government and their native fascist soldiers, police and chetnik terrorists. Time for the lies are gone - even Israeli politicians are finally getting wise.
Serbia strongly and desperately needs de-nazification, starting with their media...
(roberto, 29 January 2015 21:19)
That's the best you can come up with roberto? FACTS man! Do you understand English? I asked you to put your money where your mouth is and all you did was provide me more mouth.
You're really pathetic man, that Serbian wife who divorced you must totaly really screwed you up in the head for you to have such an intense paranoia against a whole people and sound like some broken record.
You're nothing more than an ugly human being trying to pass yourself off as an activist. I can even see the mental degradation in your typing. Pathetic. Truly pathetic.
Of the 650000 serbian victims, all of them you and the world mourne today, however more
thinking is necessary to why 16.000 000 Mio Germans died and were displaced in the same war, most of them never joined the Nazi Regime. Not to forget about the 6 000 000 of jewes. They just were innocent working citizens misused by some foolish.
Draza was also executed by the anti fascist counsel for collaborating with the Germans-This is fact !
(Bam Bam, 27 January 2015 22:21)
No, he was executed because he was Tito's biggest rival. That he was passed off as a fascist was a way of justifying his trial. That's the fact. Your's is, like everything else you write, made up crap.
Collaborators are not wanted by Nazis with promises of reward.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4e/DMihailovic_poternica.jpg
It is shameful and painful to read the terrible speech of the Serbian president. He is seperating Jews from Serbs mentioning different figures for the groups. I am sure that there were Serbian citizens of Jewish faith. It is dramatically how Serbia is facing the history with the renaming of many streets named after partisans. The rehabilitation of the cetnik-leader is not acceptable. Nikolic praises Germany in his speech, it is not a joke. And the PM expressed his hate opposite the democratic elected government in Greece, one of the rare countries supporting Serbia. Serbia seems to be on a totally wrong path.
To make a true comparison we would have had to let him exterminate all the Albanians but we did not allow that.
(a New day, 30 January 2015 14:43)
Correct, but I don't recall reading about any "Final Solution" to the "Albanian Problem" in Milosevic's haphazard strategy of national defense. I don't recall any systematic effort at deliberately targeting every person of one particular ethno/religious identity. I also don't remember Milosevic consulting with Yugoslav High Command in planning on invading Albania either.
Comparing everyone and everything one doesn't like to Nazis is thrown around far too liberally and glibly these days. I know this is veritable Golden Rule on Internet debates, but it just cheapens the credibility of one's argument.
Something can't be "not allowed" if it never materialized in the first place.
Comparing everyone and everything one doesn't like to Nazis is thrown around far too liberally and glibly these days. I know this is veritable Golden Rule on Internet debates, but it just cheapens the credibility of one's argument.
Something can't be "not allowed" if it never materialized in the first place.
(Balkan Anthropologist, 30 January 2015 16:38)
I almost cracked a gut on that one, as it is hard to read a single comments section on B92 without Serbs calling Albanians or Croats Nazis. But more to the point, I never meant they were exactly the same but Milosevic was stopped before his aspirations could manifest to Hitlers level. It is evident that he wanted to promote what he thought was the master race (truly a wrong thought) but he wanted an ethnically pure greater Serbia. They have him on video saying Serbs were the only ones that knew how to handle the Albanians. But his goal was to cleanse Kosovo of Albanians by whatever means he had to use. A personality like that only wants MORE power, they are never satisfied with what they have. If Europe and the US had allowed him to complete his task in Kosovo, he would have moved on to other tasks.
I think everyone can agree the Holocaust was a great shame on those that waited so long to stop it. Should they have not learned anything and waited for Milosevic to reach that point before acting again?
Holocaust??? Auschwitz?? Why serbs don't talk about Srebrenica??? The biggest massacre in Europe after Holocaust??? Did any Serbian feels guilty, or apologizet for that???
The goals were far far from the same, Hitlers goal was to exterminate all jews and create a third reich, now do you have any proof whatsoever that this was what Milosevic wanted? Also, Hitler fought allower the world.
(Daniel, 28 January 2015 15:46)
Like I said the two main differences were time and efficiency, but actually there was a third, intelligence. Milosevic had goals without the intelligence to carry them out.
Hitler went all over Europe with his goals, but that took years to get there. That is one reason Milosevic had to be stopped before his aspirations grew. To make a true comparison we would have had to let him exterminate all the Albanians but we did not allow that.
“roberto, please provide factual evidence where there was active Serb collaboration with the Nazis in rounding up Jews”
There are lots of myths about the Holocaust :
1/ As if 40% of the Jews were eliminated. In fact it could be 15-20% that is less than Byelorussians estimated from 25 to 33%.
2/ As if all the Jews were eliminated. In fact Zionist Jews that composed 3% of the German Jews were prospering there all the time. They had their newspapers and served in Wermaht. Goering even once said (about one Jewish General) that it was him to decide who was a Jew and who was not. Without help of the Zionists Holocaust would be not that tragic as the Germans had no lists of the Jews while most of them had German names.
3/ As if the Jews were eliminated all the time. In fact the real massacre started only in 1942 as a result of the defeat near Moscow.
4/ As if all the Axis states were equal participants in Holocaust. In fact Italy saved all their Jews after Benito said that in Italy there are no Jews and all of them are Italians. During Mussolini only 9 men were executed and none of them was a Jew.
5/ As if Jews equally suffered on all occupied territories. In fact in Estonia they killed 100% of the Jews while in the mainland USSR the Jews suffered even less than the Russians. Because in 1941 they were evacuated first.
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