30

Friday, 05.12.2014.

10:50

Arrests for 1993 Strpci station train kidnappings

Five persons have been arrested in Serbia and ten in Bosnia-Herzegovina on suspicion that they took part in the 1993 kidnapping of train passengers.

Izvor: B92

Arrests for 1993 Strpci station train kidnappings IMAGE SOURCE
IMAGE DESCRIPTION

30 Komentari

Sortiraj po:

Nenad

pre 9 godina

Daniel,

Yes, I see that I once again screwed up by referencing “The Avengers” instead of “The White Eagles”. My extremely bad Serbian and – again – bad habit of skimming text drew my attention to the wrong name when researching an earlier response.

I am also guilty of having made the impression that I can immediately understand Serbian when I see it – that is usually not the case. I will try to be more careful about translating, communicating in general, and speed reading in future.

Aside from that, I stand by my remarks, some of which were redacted by B92 (my response to njegos yesterday, and I’m not sure why, as I’m certain that I said nothing offensive). Confusing paramilitary names doesn’t alter the crux of my argument. Seselj was linked to the White Eagles, several of whose members (eg, Milan Lukic and Mitar Vasiljevic)were convicted of war crimes. Seselj naturally denies any association, and it will be up to the court to prove otherwise.

a New day

pre 9 godina

We are waiting for your apology to Amnesty Yugoslavia. Come on then!
(Why are we waiting?, 8 December 2014 13:58)
Don't quite know what you mean by apology, I did not accuse him as saying it applied only to Serbs but that his speech applied to Albanians and all UNLESS he wants to come back and clarify that it only applied to Serbs. He said it did apply to all so I accept that and we will see if he lives up to it in his future posts.
See I do not agree with him, though.

resident of Fredericton,New Brunswick,Canada

pre 9 godina

@Ataman:

Speaking of rough those teens that beat that Bosnian man to death were beyond rough and let me just say that I have no sympathy for those 3 teens that might still be in police custody as a consequence of their actions against the victim.

Why are we waiting?

pre 9 godina

That is unless Am Yugo wants to go on the record and say that this was only meant for SERBs accused of crimes.
(a New day, 7 December 2014 14:09)

We are waiting for your apology to Amnesty Yugoslavia. Come on then!

Amnesty Yugoslavia

pre 9 godina

(a New day, 7 December 2014 14:09) That is unless Am Yugo wants to go on the record and say that this was only meant for SERBs accused of crimes.

-----

For the record: It is meant for ALL.
Sadly, there are no legitimate investigators in the ICTY circus or corrupt EULEX to pursue and enable rigthful prosecution of crimes.

Ataman

pre 9 godina

(if I'm not mistaken the state of Missouri could try a 17 year old killer as an adult in a court of law or something.)
(resident of Fredericton,New Brunswick,Canada, 6 December 2014 20:03)

Rough country, rough morales, rough law, rough habits, rough domestic politics. The Wild West is an area between Maine and California and from Florida to Montana. The evil is if the evil morale is being spread world-wide.

Daniel

pre 9 godina

White Eagles (Osvetnici) - shame on me for speed reading.
(Nenad, 6 December 2014 15:52)

Osvetnici are Osvetnici and White Eagles are Beli Orlovi. Dont try to lecture someone in Serbian when you havent got a clue yourself.

a New day

pre 9 godina

A similar criminally negligent mentality underlies the motives of an accuser who makes allegations without evidence.
(Amnesty Yugoslavia, 5 December 2014 22:31)
So there you have it folks. Those of you who come on here daily and call Thaci and Haradinaj and other KLA leaders as criminals and organ snatchers, suffer from the same criminally negligent mentality as those who have committed horrific war crimes. Especially the ones who constantly harp on the organ harvesting as NO one has come up with any evidence that such a crime happened much less that any individual was connected to such a crime.
That is unless Am Yugo wants to go on the record and say that this was only meant for SERBs accused of crimes.

Ataman

pre 9 godina

Just the other day I steped in a pool of slime and killed their ancestors am I bad or what.
(Lenard, 6 December 2014 20:05)

We are talking about the slime of Strpci. They weren't killed yet. They will be some big bad dude's "girlfriends" before going to hell. Or maybe Serbian jails are better than American ones - who knows.

resident of Fredericton,New Brunswick,Canada

pre 9 godina

To avoid any confusion I forgot to point out that this Bosnian or Bosniak man's beating death occurred in St Louis,Missouri,USA which is why I made reference to the state of Missouri.

Lenard

pre 9 godina

Ataman thanks for the advise. Well I have all those and much more. Since we have the same ancestor Adam and Eve. Then again some like to be ancestors to ancient pool of slime and stinki bacteria go figure. Just the other day I steped in a pool of slime and killed their ancestors am I bad or what.

resident of Fredericton,New Brunswick,Canada

pre 9 godina

Actually on a side note to my previous comment and because this article made references to Bosniaks,therefore and speaking of Bosniaks, I thought I'd mention that recently a 32 year old Bosniak or Bosnian man tragically succumbed to a beating death by some teens (American teens of course),unfortunately one or perhaps two of the alleged assailants might still be on the run but fortunately police captured a 15 year old and a 16 year old suspect (might have been captured the same day this 32 year old victim's death occurred)and a 17 year old suspect surrendered to authorities where he will or may be tried as an adult for this criminal act (if I'm not mistaken the state of Missouri could try a 17 year old killer as an adult in a court of law or something.)

Nenad

pre 9 godina

Amnesty Yugoslavia,

Seselj completely denies any association with the White Eagles, and well he should for his own sake. The OTP may not be able to prove linkage, but that could be due to a variety of factors. It could be that the OTP lacks competence, or that incidentally, it was simply too difficult to gather evidence in this case. When you read about the alleged relationship between all these paramilitary formations and state organs, it's easy to imagine how difficult it must be to obtain evidence. And of course, there is always the factor of witness intimidation. Seselj has been convicted three times for revealing classified information (ie, identities of protected witnesses). A good example of this problem is the case of the Kenyan leader Kenyatta, against whom charges were dropped just yesterday. The prosecution ultimately failed to produce enough witnesses, as many on their list had backed out due to intimidation. Similar problems are alleged in the case of Ramush Haradinaj, but how many Serbs believe him innocent? Would you accuse them of having a criminally negligent mentality for alleging Haradinaj's guilt?

BTW, members of the White Eagles have been convicted for war crimes, and silly me, one of them is Milan Lukic! I must be getting old, because here I was thinking that Lukic was head of a different group (WASPs or something). Ha - the article even mentions White Eagles (Osvetnici) - shame on me for speed reading.

njegos

pre 9 godina

From Nenad: "...some people don't like to talk about who started what but sometimes it it necessary... I often get the sense that you don't have a good grasp of 80s-90s Yugoslav history...focus on the overthrow of Ivan Stambolic, the Yogurt Revolution in Vojvodina,..."

Nenad, if you're going to give a history lesson on the wars of the 90s, try to be somewhat balanced in your dissertation. No one denies that there were Serb paramilitary groups that did horrible things. No one denies that Milosevic was evil.

But it wasn't the Serbs who violated international law and the Yugoslav constitution when Croatia declared independence. Croatia armed themselves to the teeth prior to this because with the US and Germany's backing they knew they could start a war and get away with it. And they did. You mention Arkan, the Scorpions and other Serb paramilitary groups, but fail to mention Tudjman's rejuvenation of the Ustasha, Nasir Oric who bragged about beheading Serbs near Srebrenica before Mladic got there and of course the KLA. I could go on and on.

Serbs were fired from their jobs, had their property destroyed and many killed after Tudjman's election. Serbs in Kosovo were being harassed and killed for decades by Albanians. Milosevic capitalized on this and whipped the Serbs into a frenzy.

Before any of this, Croats, Muslims and Albanians were working to dismember Yugoslavia. And this began in 1918 when the country was established, long before the 90s.

Amnesty Yugoslavia

pre 9 godina

(Nenad, 5 December 2014 11:41) closely affiliated with Vojislav Seselj, whose White Eagles stand accused of similar crimes.

----

The accusations against Seselj have been detailed and prosecuted for close to 12 years at the ICTY without a judgement, other than partial acquittal under rule 98bis by Judge Antonneti (who in most reputable courts couldn't be challenged by a replacement judge that didn't hear even one day of live testimony).

I have examined and followed this case in detail. Can you please substantiate your allegation with specific names of the affiliated individual(s) as well as the details of the command order issued by Seselj? From all of the public transcripts that I have read and the endless hours of testimony that I have watched, no convincing evidence was presented by the OTP. Was the OTP totally incompetent and had no experience or knowledge to conduct any manner of investigation or gather evidence (eg. see the laughable cross examination of the expert fool Ridlemayer)? or Was there in fact no convincing evidence and no basis for the allegations?

The men that perpetrated crimes in Strpci and elsewhere persecuted and punished innocent individuals. A similar criminally negligent mentality underlies the motives of an accuser who makes allegations without evidence.

Ataman

pre 9 godina

good job, before burning in the hell they will have extra time to rot in the Serbian jail.

@Lenny + BamBam:

Before cursing anyone, make sure you do not have Russian, Serbian - and God forbid maybe even Albanian ancestors.
The biggest Russian-hater I ever knew is my wife. I can't live without her and she can't live without me. And we have three kids. Go figure.

Lenard

pre 9 godina

Ari I feel sad of your unjustefied attack on little me a not really. The only reason Serbia is prosecuting those criminals in Strpci kidnappings murders is that. The Serb criminal morons took pictures for posterity of doing their criminal works. Same with the murder of mostly tied teenagers from Srebrenica Bosnia that bam bam mentioned. The murdering morons took videos abusing them and murdering them shooting them in the back. Before you could even rent in Serbia some shops the video. As for the other 10's of thousands murders, raped, missing etc. Serbia just drags its feet because it was complicit and directly crimanly involved. Most of your top "leaders" were the same ones from the 90's. As for the Srpska aka criminal Greater Serbia God will take care of both.

Daniel

pre 9 godina

This is the true face of Serbians.Today they have no option but to negotiate. But , if they could. They would continue the killing. ..
(commentator., 5 December 2014 15:23)

Of course this is the face of us, we arrest our supposed warcriminals while you celebrate yours and make them pms and presidents. Thats the difference between you and us. As for the killing, I couldnt care less about albanians and I sure do wish that we get the chance to meet again without NATO backing ur sorry asses. One on one.

commentator.

pre 9 godina

This is the true face of Serbians.Today they have no option but to negotiate. But , if they could. They would continue the killing. ..

Nenad

pre 9 godina

Yes, Ari, but you must consider the chronology of things. I know that some people don't like to talk about who started what but sometimes it it necessary. You strike me as a bright guy but I often get the sense that you don't have a good grasp of 80s-90s Yugoslav history. Start around 1986 or 1987 and focus on the overthrow of Ivan Stambolic, the Yogurt Revolution in Vojvodina, the ousting of the regimes in Kosovo and Montenegro, and the establishment of Milosevic's political links to Serbs in Croatia and Bosnia in 1989-90. Read about Milosevic's takeover and Serbianization of the JNA, the logistical network set up by the likes of Jovica Stanisic and Franko Simatovic and the demilitarization of the Croatian and Bosnian TOs in the run-up to war. Learn about how your parents and grandparents - you were born in Serbia, no? - were likely robbed of their deutsche marks when Belgrade fooled Serbs into trading in their hard currency in an effort to finance war. Read about Milosevic's takeover of Serbian media. Study the rise of Seselj, Draskovic, Arkan, Karadzic, Plavsic, Babic, Martic, Djukanovic, Bulatovic, Mladic...

Get the idea? Serbia was bent on war well in advance of 1991-92 and while it's true that there were, to some degree, parallel developments taking place in Croatia, Bosnia and Kosovo against Serbs, Serbia - without question the dominant player in the region - did nothing to steer Yugoslavia away from crisis. In fact, she did the complete opposite.

Ari Gold

pre 9 godina

Seselj's thugs, Arkan's Tigers, the Scorpions, the Wasps...all these paramilitary psychopaths operated over a broad area of former YU - all with Belgrade's blessing.
(Nenad, 5 December 2014 11:41)

Right but then there's the Green Brigade, the thousands of Jihadists from the Middle East who came to fight for the Bosnian and Albanian Muslims, the neoNazi Ustasha brigades, of course the KLA which was conveniently taken off the White House list of terrorist organizations in 1998. The only difference is Serbia arrests their criminals, the ones in the region roam their streets freely.

Ari Gold

pre 9 godina

"Srpska" entity is nothing but a Serbian criminalety established on murder, rape, pillage, pogroms etc.
(Lenard, 5 December 2014 11:46)

Poor Lenard, if only you were a person of importance so your smear campaign and historical revisionism could actually materialize in wiping RS and the Serbian community in Bosnia off the map like you wish. You've been counting down the annihilation of over a million Serbs for a long time already. I hope you find some kind of therapy in venting your hatreds on here. Not like it actually matters what you think, evidently.

resident of Fredericton,New Brunswick,Canada

pre 9 godina

Excellent news regarding these arrests and I hope it does provide hope and justice to the victims'families.

Bam Bam

pre 9 godina

The horrific crimes that the Serbs committed on the Balkans will never be forgotten. The world will never forget when Serbs video taped the execution of young boys from Srebrenica. They wonder why they are the most hated race on the planet.

Nenad

pre 9 godina

As I read this story, I kept thinking how perverse it is that the guys who currently hold senior leadership roles in Serbia were, up until just 7 years ago, closely affiliated with Vojislav Seselj, whose White Eagles stand accused of similar crimes. Seselj's thugs, Arkan's Tigers, the Scorpions, the Wasps...all these paramilitary psychopaths operated over a broad area of former YU - all with Belgrade's blessing.

Lenard

pre 9 godina

Among those arrested are former members of the Bosnian Serb army (VRS) and police, as well as members of the paramilitary group "Osvetnici" commanded by Milan Lukic. Heck that is just scraching the surface their are thousands of pathetic couardly Serb criminals. "Srpska" entity is nothing but a Serbian criminalety established on murder, rape, pillage, pogroms etc. The heavenly Serbs know the golden rule do on to others as you would have it done to you. Then again the Serb garb blessed these criminalls to do all those sins what a pathetic "church".

Ari Gold

pre 9 godina

Seselj's thugs, Arkan's Tigers, the Scorpions, the Wasps...all these paramilitary psychopaths operated over a broad area of former YU - all with Belgrade's blessing.
(Nenad, 5 December 2014 11:41)

Right but then there's the Green Brigade, the thousands of Jihadists from the Middle East who came to fight for the Bosnian and Albanian Muslims, the neoNazi Ustasha brigades, of course the KLA which was conveniently taken off the White House list of terrorist organizations in 1998. The only difference is Serbia arrests their criminals, the ones in the region roam their streets freely.

Nenad

pre 9 godina

As I read this story, I kept thinking how perverse it is that the guys who currently hold senior leadership roles in Serbia were, up until just 7 years ago, closely affiliated with Vojislav Seselj, whose White Eagles stand accused of similar crimes. Seselj's thugs, Arkan's Tigers, the Scorpions, the Wasps...all these paramilitary psychopaths operated over a broad area of former YU - all with Belgrade's blessing.

Nenad

pre 9 godina

Yes, Ari, but you must consider the chronology of things. I know that some people don't like to talk about who started what but sometimes it it necessary. You strike me as a bright guy but I often get the sense that you don't have a good grasp of 80s-90s Yugoslav history. Start around 1986 or 1987 and focus on the overthrow of Ivan Stambolic, the Yogurt Revolution in Vojvodina, the ousting of the regimes in Kosovo and Montenegro, and the establishment of Milosevic's political links to Serbs in Croatia and Bosnia in 1989-90. Read about Milosevic's takeover and Serbianization of the JNA, the logistical network set up by the likes of Jovica Stanisic and Franko Simatovic and the demilitarization of the Croatian and Bosnian TOs in the run-up to war. Learn about how your parents and grandparents - you were born in Serbia, no? - were likely robbed of their deutsche marks when Belgrade fooled Serbs into trading in their hard currency in an effort to finance war. Read about Milosevic's takeover of Serbian media. Study the rise of Seselj, Draskovic, Arkan, Karadzic, Plavsic, Babic, Martic, Djukanovic, Bulatovic, Mladic...

Get the idea? Serbia was bent on war well in advance of 1991-92 and while it's true that there were, to some degree, parallel developments taking place in Croatia, Bosnia and Kosovo against Serbs, Serbia - without question the dominant player in the region - did nothing to steer Yugoslavia away from crisis. In fact, she did the complete opposite.

Bam Bam

pre 9 godina

The horrific crimes that the Serbs committed on the Balkans will never be forgotten. The world will never forget when Serbs video taped the execution of young boys from Srebrenica. They wonder why they are the most hated race on the planet.

Ari Gold

pre 9 godina

"Srpska" entity is nothing but a Serbian criminalety established on murder, rape, pillage, pogroms etc.
(Lenard, 5 December 2014 11:46)

Poor Lenard, if only you were a person of importance so your smear campaign and historical revisionism could actually materialize in wiping RS and the Serbian community in Bosnia off the map like you wish. You've been counting down the annihilation of over a million Serbs for a long time already. I hope you find some kind of therapy in venting your hatreds on here. Not like it actually matters what you think, evidently.

resident of Fredericton,New Brunswick,Canada

pre 9 godina

Excellent news regarding these arrests and I hope it does provide hope and justice to the victims'families.

commentator.

pre 9 godina

This is the true face of Serbians.Today they have no option but to negotiate. But , if they could. They would continue the killing. ..

Lenard

pre 9 godina

Among those arrested are former members of the Bosnian Serb army (VRS) and police, as well as members of the paramilitary group "Osvetnici" commanded by Milan Lukic. Heck that is just scraching the surface their are thousands of pathetic couardly Serb criminals. "Srpska" entity is nothing but a Serbian criminalety established on murder, rape, pillage, pogroms etc. The heavenly Serbs know the golden rule do on to others as you would have it done to you. Then again the Serb garb blessed these criminalls to do all those sins what a pathetic "church".

Daniel

pre 9 godina

This is the true face of Serbians.Today they have no option but to negotiate. But , if they could. They would continue the killing. ..
(commentator., 5 December 2014 15:23)

Of course this is the face of us, we arrest our supposed warcriminals while you celebrate yours and make them pms and presidents. Thats the difference between you and us. As for the killing, I couldnt care less about albanians and I sure do wish that we get the chance to meet again without NATO backing ur sorry asses. One on one.

Lenard

pre 9 godina

Ari I feel sad of your unjustefied attack on little me a not really. The only reason Serbia is prosecuting those criminals in Strpci kidnappings murders is that. The Serb criminal morons took pictures for posterity of doing their criminal works. Same with the murder of mostly tied teenagers from Srebrenica Bosnia that bam bam mentioned. The murdering morons took videos abusing them and murdering them shooting them in the back. Before you could even rent in Serbia some shops the video. As for the other 10's of thousands murders, raped, missing etc. Serbia just drags its feet because it was complicit and directly crimanly involved. Most of your top "leaders" were the same ones from the 90's. As for the Srpska aka criminal Greater Serbia God will take care of both.

Amnesty Yugoslavia

pre 9 godina

(Nenad, 5 December 2014 11:41) closely affiliated with Vojislav Seselj, whose White Eagles stand accused of similar crimes.

----

The accusations against Seselj have been detailed and prosecuted for close to 12 years at the ICTY without a judgement, other than partial acquittal under rule 98bis by Judge Antonneti (who in most reputable courts couldn't be challenged by a replacement judge that didn't hear even one day of live testimony).

I have examined and followed this case in detail. Can you please substantiate your allegation with specific names of the affiliated individual(s) as well as the details of the command order issued by Seselj? From all of the public transcripts that I have read and the endless hours of testimony that I have watched, no convincing evidence was presented by the OTP. Was the OTP totally incompetent and had no experience or knowledge to conduct any manner of investigation or gather evidence (eg. see the laughable cross examination of the expert fool Ridlemayer)? or Was there in fact no convincing evidence and no basis for the allegations?

The men that perpetrated crimes in Strpci and elsewhere persecuted and punished innocent individuals. A similar criminally negligent mentality underlies the motives of an accuser who makes allegations without evidence.

njegos

pre 9 godina

From Nenad: "...some people don't like to talk about who started what but sometimes it it necessary... I often get the sense that you don't have a good grasp of 80s-90s Yugoslav history...focus on the overthrow of Ivan Stambolic, the Yogurt Revolution in Vojvodina,..."

Nenad, if you're going to give a history lesson on the wars of the 90s, try to be somewhat balanced in your dissertation. No one denies that there were Serb paramilitary groups that did horrible things. No one denies that Milosevic was evil.

But it wasn't the Serbs who violated international law and the Yugoslav constitution when Croatia declared independence. Croatia armed themselves to the teeth prior to this because with the US and Germany's backing they knew they could start a war and get away with it. And they did. You mention Arkan, the Scorpions and other Serb paramilitary groups, but fail to mention Tudjman's rejuvenation of the Ustasha, Nasir Oric who bragged about beheading Serbs near Srebrenica before Mladic got there and of course the KLA. I could go on and on.

Serbs were fired from their jobs, had their property destroyed and many killed after Tudjman's election. Serbs in Kosovo were being harassed and killed for decades by Albanians. Milosevic capitalized on this and whipped the Serbs into a frenzy.

Before any of this, Croats, Muslims and Albanians were working to dismember Yugoslavia. And this began in 1918 when the country was established, long before the 90s.

Ataman

pre 9 godina

good job, before burning in the hell they will have extra time to rot in the Serbian jail.

@Lenny + BamBam:

Before cursing anyone, make sure you do not have Russian, Serbian - and God forbid maybe even Albanian ancestors.
The biggest Russian-hater I ever knew is my wife. I can't live without her and she can't live without me. And we have three kids. Go figure.

Nenad

pre 9 godina

Amnesty Yugoslavia,

Seselj completely denies any association with the White Eagles, and well he should for his own sake. The OTP may not be able to prove linkage, but that could be due to a variety of factors. It could be that the OTP lacks competence, or that incidentally, it was simply too difficult to gather evidence in this case. When you read about the alleged relationship between all these paramilitary formations and state organs, it's easy to imagine how difficult it must be to obtain evidence. And of course, there is always the factor of witness intimidation. Seselj has been convicted three times for revealing classified information (ie, identities of protected witnesses). A good example of this problem is the case of the Kenyan leader Kenyatta, against whom charges were dropped just yesterday. The prosecution ultimately failed to produce enough witnesses, as many on their list had backed out due to intimidation. Similar problems are alleged in the case of Ramush Haradinaj, but how many Serbs believe him innocent? Would you accuse them of having a criminally negligent mentality for alleging Haradinaj's guilt?

BTW, members of the White Eagles have been convicted for war crimes, and silly me, one of them is Milan Lukic! I must be getting old, because here I was thinking that Lukic was head of a different group (WASPs or something). Ha - the article even mentions White Eagles (Osvetnici) - shame on me for speed reading.

Lenard

pre 9 godina

Ataman thanks for the advise. Well I have all those and much more. Since we have the same ancestor Adam and Eve. Then again some like to be ancestors to ancient pool of slime and stinki bacteria go figure. Just the other day I steped in a pool of slime and killed their ancestors am I bad or what.

Nenad

pre 9 godina

Daniel,

Yes, I see that I once again screwed up by referencing “The Avengers” instead of “The White Eagles”. My extremely bad Serbian and – again – bad habit of skimming text drew my attention to the wrong name when researching an earlier response.

I am also guilty of having made the impression that I can immediately understand Serbian when I see it – that is usually not the case. I will try to be more careful about translating, communicating in general, and speed reading in future.

Aside from that, I stand by my remarks, some of which were redacted by B92 (my response to njegos yesterday, and I’m not sure why, as I’m certain that I said nothing offensive). Confusing paramilitary names doesn’t alter the crux of my argument. Seselj was linked to the White Eagles, several of whose members (eg, Milan Lukic and Mitar Vasiljevic)were convicted of war crimes. Seselj naturally denies any association, and it will be up to the court to prove otherwise.

resident of Fredericton,New Brunswick,Canada

pre 9 godina

Actually on a side note to my previous comment and because this article made references to Bosniaks,therefore and speaking of Bosniaks, I thought I'd mention that recently a 32 year old Bosniak or Bosnian man tragically succumbed to a beating death by some teens (American teens of course),unfortunately one or perhaps two of the alleged assailants might still be on the run but fortunately police captured a 15 year old and a 16 year old suspect (might have been captured the same day this 32 year old victim's death occurred)and a 17 year old suspect surrendered to authorities where he will or may be tried as an adult for this criminal act (if I'm not mistaken the state of Missouri could try a 17 year old killer as an adult in a court of law or something.)

a New day

pre 9 godina

A similar criminally negligent mentality underlies the motives of an accuser who makes allegations without evidence.
(Amnesty Yugoslavia, 5 December 2014 22:31)
So there you have it folks. Those of you who come on here daily and call Thaci and Haradinaj and other KLA leaders as criminals and organ snatchers, suffer from the same criminally negligent mentality as those who have committed horrific war crimes. Especially the ones who constantly harp on the organ harvesting as NO one has come up with any evidence that such a crime happened much less that any individual was connected to such a crime.
That is unless Am Yugo wants to go on the record and say that this was only meant for SERBs accused of crimes.

Daniel

pre 9 godina

White Eagles (Osvetnici) - shame on me for speed reading.
(Nenad, 6 December 2014 15:52)

Osvetnici are Osvetnici and White Eagles are Beli Orlovi. Dont try to lecture someone in Serbian when you havent got a clue yourself.

resident of Fredericton,New Brunswick,Canada

pre 9 godina

@Ataman:

Speaking of rough those teens that beat that Bosnian man to death were beyond rough and let me just say that I have no sympathy for those 3 teens that might still be in police custody as a consequence of their actions against the victim.

Ataman

pre 9 godina

Just the other day I steped in a pool of slime and killed their ancestors am I bad or what.
(Lenard, 6 December 2014 20:05)

We are talking about the slime of Strpci. They weren't killed yet. They will be some big bad dude's "girlfriends" before going to hell. Or maybe Serbian jails are better than American ones - who knows.

Ataman

pre 9 godina

(if I'm not mistaken the state of Missouri could try a 17 year old killer as an adult in a court of law or something.)
(resident of Fredericton,New Brunswick,Canada, 6 December 2014 20:03)

Rough country, rough morales, rough law, rough habits, rough domestic politics. The Wild West is an area between Maine and California and from Florida to Montana. The evil is if the evil morale is being spread world-wide.

Why are we waiting?

pre 9 godina

That is unless Am Yugo wants to go on the record and say that this was only meant for SERBs accused of crimes.
(a New day, 7 December 2014 14:09)

We are waiting for your apology to Amnesty Yugoslavia. Come on then!

a New day

pre 9 godina

We are waiting for your apology to Amnesty Yugoslavia. Come on then!
(Why are we waiting?, 8 December 2014 13:58)
Don't quite know what you mean by apology, I did not accuse him as saying it applied only to Serbs but that his speech applied to Albanians and all UNLESS he wants to come back and clarify that it only applied to Serbs. He said it did apply to all so I accept that and we will see if he lives up to it in his future posts.
See I do not agree with him, though.

resident of Fredericton,New Brunswick,Canada

pre 9 godina

To avoid any confusion I forgot to point out that this Bosnian or Bosniak man's beating death occurred in St Louis,Missouri,USA which is why I made reference to the state of Missouri.

Amnesty Yugoslavia

pre 9 godina

(a New day, 7 December 2014 14:09) That is unless Am Yugo wants to go on the record and say that this was only meant for SERBs accused of crimes.

-----

For the record: It is meant for ALL.
Sadly, there are no legitimate investigators in the ICTY circus or corrupt EULEX to pursue and enable rigthful prosecution of crimes.

Lenard

pre 9 godina

Among those arrested are former members of the Bosnian Serb army (VRS) and police, as well as members of the paramilitary group "Osvetnici" commanded by Milan Lukic. Heck that is just scraching the surface their are thousands of pathetic couardly Serb criminals. "Srpska" entity is nothing but a Serbian criminalety established on murder, rape, pillage, pogroms etc. The heavenly Serbs know the golden rule do on to others as you would have it done to you. Then again the Serb garb blessed these criminalls to do all those sins what a pathetic "church".

Bam Bam

pre 9 godina

The horrific crimes that the Serbs committed on the Balkans will never be forgotten. The world will never forget when Serbs video taped the execution of young boys from Srebrenica. They wonder why they are the most hated race on the planet.

Nenad

pre 9 godina

Yes, Ari, but you must consider the chronology of things. I know that some people don't like to talk about who started what but sometimes it it necessary. You strike me as a bright guy but I often get the sense that you don't have a good grasp of 80s-90s Yugoslav history. Start around 1986 or 1987 and focus on the overthrow of Ivan Stambolic, the Yogurt Revolution in Vojvodina, the ousting of the regimes in Kosovo and Montenegro, and the establishment of Milosevic's political links to Serbs in Croatia and Bosnia in 1989-90. Read about Milosevic's takeover and Serbianization of the JNA, the logistical network set up by the likes of Jovica Stanisic and Franko Simatovic and the demilitarization of the Croatian and Bosnian TOs in the run-up to war. Learn about how your parents and grandparents - you were born in Serbia, no? - were likely robbed of their deutsche marks when Belgrade fooled Serbs into trading in their hard currency in an effort to finance war. Read about Milosevic's takeover of Serbian media. Study the rise of Seselj, Draskovic, Arkan, Karadzic, Plavsic, Babic, Martic, Djukanovic, Bulatovic, Mladic...

Get the idea? Serbia was bent on war well in advance of 1991-92 and while it's true that there were, to some degree, parallel developments taking place in Croatia, Bosnia and Kosovo against Serbs, Serbia - without question the dominant player in the region - did nothing to steer Yugoslavia away from crisis. In fact, she did the complete opposite.

njegos

pre 9 godina

From Nenad: "...some people don't like to talk about who started what but sometimes it it necessary... I often get the sense that you don't have a good grasp of 80s-90s Yugoslav history...focus on the overthrow of Ivan Stambolic, the Yogurt Revolution in Vojvodina,..."

Nenad, if you're going to give a history lesson on the wars of the 90s, try to be somewhat balanced in your dissertation. No one denies that there were Serb paramilitary groups that did horrible things. No one denies that Milosevic was evil.

But it wasn't the Serbs who violated international law and the Yugoslav constitution when Croatia declared independence. Croatia armed themselves to the teeth prior to this because with the US and Germany's backing they knew they could start a war and get away with it. And they did. You mention Arkan, the Scorpions and other Serb paramilitary groups, but fail to mention Tudjman's rejuvenation of the Ustasha, Nasir Oric who bragged about beheading Serbs near Srebrenica before Mladic got there and of course the KLA. I could go on and on.

Serbs were fired from their jobs, had their property destroyed and many killed after Tudjman's election. Serbs in Kosovo were being harassed and killed for decades by Albanians. Milosevic capitalized on this and whipped the Serbs into a frenzy.

Before any of this, Croats, Muslims and Albanians were working to dismember Yugoslavia. And this began in 1918 when the country was established, long before the 90s.

Ari Gold

pre 9 godina

Seselj's thugs, Arkan's Tigers, the Scorpions, the Wasps...all these paramilitary psychopaths operated over a broad area of former YU - all with Belgrade's blessing.
(Nenad, 5 December 2014 11:41)

Right but then there's the Green Brigade, the thousands of Jihadists from the Middle East who came to fight for the Bosnian and Albanian Muslims, the neoNazi Ustasha brigades, of course the KLA which was conveniently taken off the White House list of terrorist organizations in 1998. The only difference is Serbia arrests their criminals, the ones in the region roam their streets freely.

Ari Gold

pre 9 godina

"Srpska" entity is nothing but a Serbian criminalety established on murder, rape, pillage, pogroms etc.
(Lenard, 5 December 2014 11:46)

Poor Lenard, if only you were a person of importance so your smear campaign and historical revisionism could actually materialize in wiping RS and the Serbian community in Bosnia off the map like you wish. You've been counting down the annihilation of over a million Serbs for a long time already. I hope you find some kind of therapy in venting your hatreds on here. Not like it actually matters what you think, evidently.

commentator.

pre 9 godina

This is the true face of Serbians.Today they have no option but to negotiate. But , if they could. They would continue the killing. ..

Daniel

pre 9 godina

This is the true face of Serbians.Today they have no option but to negotiate. But , if they could. They would continue the killing. ..
(commentator., 5 December 2014 15:23)

Of course this is the face of us, we arrest our supposed warcriminals while you celebrate yours and make them pms and presidents. Thats the difference between you and us. As for the killing, I couldnt care less about albanians and I sure do wish that we get the chance to meet again without NATO backing ur sorry asses. One on one.

Lenard

pre 9 godina

Ari I feel sad of your unjustefied attack on little me a not really. The only reason Serbia is prosecuting those criminals in Strpci kidnappings murders is that. The Serb criminal morons took pictures for posterity of doing their criminal works. Same with the murder of mostly tied teenagers from Srebrenica Bosnia that bam bam mentioned. The murdering morons took videos abusing them and murdering them shooting them in the back. Before you could even rent in Serbia some shops the video. As for the other 10's of thousands murders, raped, missing etc. Serbia just drags its feet because it was complicit and directly crimanly involved. Most of your top "leaders" were the same ones from the 90's. As for the Srpska aka criminal Greater Serbia God will take care of both.

Nenad

pre 9 godina

As I read this story, I kept thinking how perverse it is that the guys who currently hold senior leadership roles in Serbia were, up until just 7 years ago, closely affiliated with Vojislav Seselj, whose White Eagles stand accused of similar crimes. Seselj's thugs, Arkan's Tigers, the Scorpions, the Wasps...all these paramilitary psychopaths operated over a broad area of former YU - all with Belgrade's blessing.

Ataman

pre 9 godina

(if I'm not mistaken the state of Missouri could try a 17 year old killer as an adult in a court of law or something.)
(resident of Fredericton,New Brunswick,Canada, 6 December 2014 20:03)

Rough country, rough morales, rough law, rough habits, rough domestic politics. The Wild West is an area between Maine and California and from Florida to Montana. The evil is if the evil morale is being spread world-wide.

Amnesty Yugoslavia

pre 9 godina

(Nenad, 5 December 2014 11:41) closely affiliated with Vojislav Seselj, whose White Eagles stand accused of similar crimes.

----

The accusations against Seselj have been detailed and prosecuted for close to 12 years at the ICTY without a judgement, other than partial acquittal under rule 98bis by Judge Antonneti (who in most reputable courts couldn't be challenged by a replacement judge that didn't hear even one day of live testimony).

I have examined and followed this case in detail. Can you please substantiate your allegation with specific names of the affiliated individual(s) as well as the details of the command order issued by Seselj? From all of the public transcripts that I have read and the endless hours of testimony that I have watched, no convincing evidence was presented by the OTP. Was the OTP totally incompetent and had no experience or knowledge to conduct any manner of investigation or gather evidence (eg. see the laughable cross examination of the expert fool Ridlemayer)? or Was there in fact no convincing evidence and no basis for the allegations?

The men that perpetrated crimes in Strpci and elsewhere persecuted and punished innocent individuals. A similar criminally negligent mentality underlies the motives of an accuser who makes allegations without evidence.

Nenad

pre 9 godina

Amnesty Yugoslavia,

Seselj completely denies any association with the White Eagles, and well he should for his own sake. The OTP may not be able to prove linkage, but that could be due to a variety of factors. It could be that the OTP lacks competence, or that incidentally, it was simply too difficult to gather evidence in this case. When you read about the alleged relationship between all these paramilitary formations and state organs, it's easy to imagine how difficult it must be to obtain evidence. And of course, there is always the factor of witness intimidation. Seselj has been convicted three times for revealing classified information (ie, identities of protected witnesses). A good example of this problem is the case of the Kenyan leader Kenyatta, against whom charges were dropped just yesterday. The prosecution ultimately failed to produce enough witnesses, as many on their list had backed out due to intimidation. Similar problems are alleged in the case of Ramush Haradinaj, but how many Serbs believe him innocent? Would you accuse them of having a criminally negligent mentality for alleging Haradinaj's guilt?

BTW, members of the White Eagles have been convicted for war crimes, and silly me, one of them is Milan Lukic! I must be getting old, because here I was thinking that Lukic was head of a different group (WASPs or something). Ha - the article even mentions White Eagles (Osvetnici) - shame on me for speed reading.

Lenard

pre 9 godina

Ataman thanks for the advise. Well I have all those and much more. Since we have the same ancestor Adam and Eve. Then again some like to be ancestors to ancient pool of slime and stinki bacteria go figure. Just the other day I steped in a pool of slime and killed their ancestors am I bad or what.

resident of Fredericton,New Brunswick,Canada

pre 9 godina

Excellent news regarding these arrests and I hope it does provide hope and justice to the victims'families.

Ataman

pre 9 godina

good job, before burning in the hell they will have extra time to rot in the Serbian jail.

@Lenny + BamBam:

Before cursing anyone, make sure you do not have Russian, Serbian - and God forbid maybe even Albanian ancestors.
The biggest Russian-hater I ever knew is my wife. I can't live without her and she can't live without me. And we have three kids. Go figure.

Ataman

pre 9 godina

Just the other day I steped in a pool of slime and killed their ancestors am I bad or what.
(Lenard, 6 December 2014 20:05)

We are talking about the slime of Strpci. They weren't killed yet. They will be some big bad dude's "girlfriends" before going to hell. Or maybe Serbian jails are better than American ones - who knows.

Daniel

pre 9 godina

White Eagles (Osvetnici) - shame on me for speed reading.
(Nenad, 6 December 2014 15:52)

Osvetnici are Osvetnici and White Eagles are Beli Orlovi. Dont try to lecture someone in Serbian when you havent got a clue yourself.

Amnesty Yugoslavia

pre 9 godina

(a New day, 7 December 2014 14:09) That is unless Am Yugo wants to go on the record and say that this was only meant for SERBs accused of crimes.

-----

For the record: It is meant for ALL.
Sadly, there are no legitimate investigators in the ICTY circus or corrupt EULEX to pursue and enable rigthful prosecution of crimes.

resident of Fredericton,New Brunswick,Canada

pre 9 godina

To avoid any confusion I forgot to point out that this Bosnian or Bosniak man's beating death occurred in St Louis,Missouri,USA which is why I made reference to the state of Missouri.

a New day

pre 9 godina

A similar criminally negligent mentality underlies the motives of an accuser who makes allegations without evidence.
(Amnesty Yugoslavia, 5 December 2014 22:31)
So there you have it folks. Those of you who come on here daily and call Thaci and Haradinaj and other KLA leaders as criminals and organ snatchers, suffer from the same criminally negligent mentality as those who have committed horrific war crimes. Especially the ones who constantly harp on the organ harvesting as NO one has come up with any evidence that such a crime happened much less that any individual was connected to such a crime.
That is unless Am Yugo wants to go on the record and say that this was only meant for SERBs accused of crimes.

Why are we waiting?

pre 9 godina

That is unless Am Yugo wants to go on the record and say that this was only meant for SERBs accused of crimes.
(a New day, 7 December 2014 14:09)

We are waiting for your apology to Amnesty Yugoslavia. Come on then!

resident of Fredericton,New Brunswick,Canada

pre 9 godina

@Ataman:

Speaking of rough those teens that beat that Bosnian man to death were beyond rough and let me just say that I have no sympathy for those 3 teens that might still be in police custody as a consequence of their actions against the victim.

Nenad

pre 9 godina

Daniel,

Yes, I see that I once again screwed up by referencing “The Avengers” instead of “The White Eagles”. My extremely bad Serbian and – again – bad habit of skimming text drew my attention to the wrong name when researching an earlier response.

I am also guilty of having made the impression that I can immediately understand Serbian when I see it – that is usually not the case. I will try to be more careful about translating, communicating in general, and speed reading in future.

Aside from that, I stand by my remarks, some of which were redacted by B92 (my response to njegos yesterday, and I’m not sure why, as I’m certain that I said nothing offensive). Confusing paramilitary names doesn’t alter the crux of my argument. Seselj was linked to the White Eagles, several of whose members (eg, Milan Lukic and Mitar Vasiljevic)were convicted of war crimes. Seselj naturally denies any association, and it will be up to the court to prove otherwise.

resident of Fredericton,New Brunswick,Canada

pre 9 godina

Actually on a side note to my previous comment and because this article made references to Bosniaks,therefore and speaking of Bosniaks, I thought I'd mention that recently a 32 year old Bosniak or Bosnian man tragically succumbed to a beating death by some teens (American teens of course),unfortunately one or perhaps two of the alleged assailants might still be on the run but fortunately police captured a 15 year old and a 16 year old suspect (might have been captured the same day this 32 year old victim's death occurred)and a 17 year old suspect surrendered to authorities where he will or may be tried as an adult for this criminal act (if I'm not mistaken the state of Missouri could try a 17 year old killer as an adult in a court of law or something.)

a New day

pre 9 godina

We are waiting for your apology to Amnesty Yugoslavia. Come on then!
(Why are we waiting?, 8 December 2014 13:58)
Don't quite know what you mean by apology, I did not accuse him as saying it applied only to Serbs but that his speech applied to Albanians and all UNLESS he wants to come back and clarify that it only applied to Serbs. He said it did apply to all so I accept that and we will see if he lives up to it in his future posts.
See I do not agree with him, though.