EU condemns Russia-Abkhazia agreement

International law - let's talk about Kosovo! The West introduced this New International law - remember!

Is the EU serious? What about the territorial integrity of Serbia? And how does illegally handing the province of kosovo to albanian terrorists, drug dealers and organ traffickers contribute to peace and stability? Talk about hypocrisy!!

I love it ...what a slap in the face of Eu & Us

I truly lament the demise of the west which was once looked upon for justice, quality of living standards and human rights, but today its only milestones are breathtaking hypocrisy and the condemnation of this agreement is a good example.
While the west was breaking up Serbia everything was fine, but in this case it now looks like it’s against international law. Yes, for years they sat on this book and broke every rule in it, but when Russia does something, well they pull out the law book and quote sections and paragraphs.

"Mogherini went on to say that this agreement constitutes "a violation of the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Georgia and is contrary to international law."

Duplicity at its best!! However, what the US did in Kosovo is not an infringement on another state's territorial integrity? I can't believe the gull of these people, they talk from their ass. The US has the God given right to terrorize and steal resources from other countries in the name of democracy however, when Russia attempts to protect itself from the Nato criminals, it becomes a different ball game. Totally unf***ing believable!!!

Russia has almost stopped to pay attention to what the West will say or do because NATO states first decide to do something and then they seek for a pretext. Sanctions would happen with or without Crimea with or without Donbass with or without Magnitsky ect. Other tactics is to provoke Russia for something and then to blame it for the reaction. This time both lines were activated at the time after Georgia had been promised new NATO prospects. So the new treaty with Abkhazia is aimed not only against the West but mostly against Georgia as the chronicle provocateur of the region. It’s just a warning of the red line.

The irony is so lost on the EU that it's no longer funny to point out the broken logic.

To all our Serb commenters: Stop pretending! Your former Foreign Minister, Vuk "over my dead body" Jeremic, took this issue to the international court of justice and lost miserably. Kosovo's declaration of independence did not break any international law. Stop being hypocrites, just say: I support Russia because I want to, because they speak Slavic, because they won't cut the gas to Serbia for the winter, because every night in my dreams I see the Russian army marching over Kosovo, etc, etc, it would be more honest :).

To all our Serb commenters: Stop pretending! Your former Foreign Minister, Vuk "over my dead body" Jeremic, took this issue to the international court of justice and lost miserably. Kosovo's declaration of independence did not break any international law. Stop being hypocrites, just say: I support Russia because I want to, because they speak Slavic, because they won't cut the gas to Serbia for the winter, because every night in my dreams I see the Russian army marching over Kosovo, etc, etc, it would be more honest :).
(Reader, 25 November 2014 20:05)
To explain what happened in the International Court to a person like you would be a waste of time and effort as it would fly over your head, but I ask the obvious question then, why are you posting if it’s all in your dreams LOL.

I think you are misinterpreting decision made at International Court of Justice, Reader.
Question put before the court was "Is Kosovo's declaration of independence legal?" and they used wording of the question to avoid giving actual answer to the real question - "Is Kosovo's independence legal?"
Their answer was pretty much- "Yes. It's not contrary to the international law to declare whatever you want."
They even clarified that while declaring something is not illegal, it may not make it so just because you declared it...
Example, I hereby declare myself to be King of the Universe!
Did I break any international laws? No.
Bring it before the court and they will deliberate that my DECLARATION was not illegal, as I have a right to declare whatever I want.
Now, with my declaration judged legal, does that mean I really am King of the Universe?
No. That's entirely different question and ICJ avoided giving an answer to the real question, choosing to answer only what was asked from them...
And now we can go back to thinking whatever we were thinking before, and I can tell you "You took my declaration of being King of the Universe to court, and lost. Now bow down before me my subject. Court proved that I am legal King of the Universe."
And you can go back to thinking that court did not, in fact, declared me legal King of the Universe, but only that me declaring something is not illegal....
And, of course, refuse to bow down.
Hope that clears it for you a bit.

"To all our Serb commenters: Stop pretending! Your former Foreign Minister, Vuk "over my dead body" Jeremic, took this issue to the international court of justice and lost miserably. Kosovo's declaration of independence did not break any international law. "
(Reader, 25 November 2014 20:05)

Well, the ICJ would probably rule about the legality of the the Crime secession the same way - but Russia doesn't care and doesn't ask. If such secessions violate territorial integrity and are illegal regarding the constitutions of the countries the territory belongs to seems to be not important for the decision, which basically said: Every group of people has the right to DECLARE itself independent and it's the matter of other states to RECOGNIZE the independence or not, and only recognition makes the statehood, not declaration.

But what is ironic: Those Serbs who cheer and defend the support of Russia for ethnic separatists and terrorists in breakaway regions seem to be too blind to see that Kosovo Albanians must be very happy about that - because essentially it's the same thing. At least Serbia's government is smart enough to stick to the principle of territorial integrity and sovereignty of states in case of Ukraine, though it doesn't dare to criticize Russia which blatantly violated that principle.

Reader

Thanks for your advice ! Before you we didn’t know what to do and where to go. Now that you made things clear we’ll improve and we’ll obey everything America will tell us to do. Just like all other Europeans. Then on our knees they will let us in.

PS One thing you are right. Being aware that ICJ like most other international organizations are controlled by the US Serbia should not had applied here for justice. It was either naive or it was a kinda treason.

(Comm. Parrisson, 26 November 2014 13:33)
Yes Russia DID try to claim they were preventing the same thing but was it credible??? Apparently, no one believes it, or some of the countries supporting Kosovo would have also recognized by now. If you see someone brutally assaulting someone and you use force to stop them, then most people and courts would exonerate you, but if you attack someone walking down the street and claim that you did so because you believe they would brutally assault someone then I doubt most people including Russians or even Russian courts would say you were justified. Even though no one will ever know if they would have or wouldn't have.
Also the argument makes Russia look hypocritical in that if they are saying they are the same and it was something that warranted them to use force and to recognize then there would be no reason not to do so for Kosovo. But at least the west is saying they are not the same.
No there was no mention in the ICJ opinion about the brutality leading up to the DOI of Kosovo and why?, back to the same thing they were answering a question put to it by the Serbian govt, pure and simple did it violate international laws, the answer is no. The question was never did the brutality justify the DOI.

But what is ironic: Those Serbs who cheer and defend the support of Russia for ethnic separatists and terrorists in breakaway regions seem to be too blind to see that Kosovo Albanians must be very happy about that - because essentially it's the same thing.
(Comm. Parrisson, 26 November 2014 08:21)
You and the Serbia govt and nationalists keep trying to paint this picture, and you have enlisted Russian support for the subject. But it is not the same not by a milestone. Unless these regions have a similar Milosevic campaign, there will never be a true comparison. The support from the world is based on you and all Serbs believe that the brutality unleashed on Kosovo by your police, military and paramilitary means nothing and there is no assurances ever presented that the same thing would not happen tomorrow if Serbia had the chance.
As to whether your statement holds water I think can be summed up in the difference in 106 recognitions to 4. Remeber the timeline between Kosovo and the Georgian province is only a matter of a few months.

Their answer was pretty much- "Yes. It's not contrary to the international law to declare whatever you want."
(Sreten, 26 November 2014 07:24)

Well, first remove the quotes, because ICJ did not say that. You are saying that. ICJ said "The Court is the opinion that the declaration of independence of Kosovo adopted on 17 February 2008 did not violate international law".

So, it was a specific declaration (the one adpoted on 17/2/2008) by a specific entity (Kosovo) that did not violate international law. That does not even cover Kosovo's declaration of independence adopted on 22/09/1991, let alone other declarations.

You're flogging a dead horse here... My advice, go read the actual ICJ opinion rather than relying on interpretations of the opinion, because the opinion was very clear, direct and concise in replying to the question asked. You don't need to have a PhD in Law to understand it. It's just one sentence that I quoted above.

Question put before the court was "Is Kosovo's declaration of independence legal?" and they used wording of the question to avoid giving actual answer to the real question - "Is Kosovo's independence legal?"
(Sreten, 26 November 2014 07:24)

LOL, it is good to see you are using the same arguments of the supporters of Kosovo during the ICJ proceedings. This was what everybody on Kosovo's side was saying all the time. Here, to help you, read the argument of Prof. James Crawford (the guy everybody from Serbia's camp was citing from), page 46:
http://www.icj-cij.org/docket/files/141/15734.pdf

Remember Sreten, it was your former FM who came up with the question. Why do you say "to avoid answering the real question?". Why didn't little Vuk ask the real question in the first place?

Bottom line is, as long as no authoritative institution has said that Kosovo's independence is illegal, then it is not, and the only chance Serbia had to get an answer from an authoritative body in international law, it played hide and seek. On purpose!!! That is what you need to ponder on :).

"You took my declaration of being King of the Universe to court, and lost. Now bow down before me my subject. Court proved that I am legal King of the Universe."
And you can go back to thinking that court did not, in fact, declared me legal King of the Universe, but only that me declaring something is not illegal....
And, of course, refuse to bow down.
Hope that clears it for you a bit.
(Sreten, 26 November 2014 07:24)
Of course you miss one very big point, well actually 2.
Courts answer the questions they are asked, and it was SERBIA who chose the question.
The other thing you are missing is if after the court says it is not illegal for you to claim you are the king of the universe, a majority of the countries in the world agree that you are then you start to have a legitimate claim.

To explain what happened in the International Court to a person like you would be a waste of time and effort as it would fly over your head, but I ask the obvious question then, why are you posting if it’s all in your dreams LOL.
(sj, 26 November 2014 09:48
True to form, when unable to make a validated argument, resort to petty childish insults. You could have been a star on Jerry Springer.

One thing you are right. Being aware that ICJ like most other international organizations are controlled by the US
(RK, 26 November 2014 09:10)

Really?!!! But according to the CE of B92 forums sj the US has collapsed and reading the postings of the most patriotic of Serbs here, it is Russia and China and the rest of the BRICS who control the world!!! So, either you are wrong or sj and the most patriotic of Serbs are wrong...

P.S. CE = Chief Economist

"The support from the world is based on you and all Serbs believe that the brutality unleashed on Kosovo by your police, military and paramilitary means nothing and there is no assurances ever presented that the same thing would not happen tomorrow if Serbia had the chance. "
(a New Day, 26 November 2014 12:12)

The brutal oppression by the Milosevic regime is true, but was nowhere mentioned in the ICY ruling about the legality of the Kosovo Declaration of independence. Russians argue that only their intervention prevented a similar thing - you will never know if it was true, but the wording of some Ukrainian politicians about what to do with the Russian minority was not much different to the hate speeches of Mr. 'Rusty Spoon' Seslj.

To all our Serb commenters: Stop pretending! Your former Foreign Minister, Vuk "over my dead body" Jeremic, took this issue to the international court of justice and lost miserably. Kosovo's declaration of independence did not break any international law. Stop being hypocrites, just say: I support Russia because I want to, because they speak Slavic, because they won't cut the gas to Serbia for the winter, because every night in my dreams I see the Russian army marching over Kosovo, etc, etc, it would be more honest :).

Is the EU serious? What about the territorial integrity of Serbia? And how does illegally handing the province of kosovo to albanian terrorists, drug dealers and organ traffickers contribute to peace and stability? Talk about hypocrisy!!

I love it ...what a slap in the face of Eu & Us

International law - let's talk about Kosovo! The West introduced this New International law - remember!

I truly lament the demise of the west which was once looked upon for justice, quality of living standards and human rights, but today its only milestones are breathtaking hypocrisy and the condemnation of this agreement is a good example.
While the west was breaking up Serbia everything was fine, but in this case it now looks like it’s against international law. Yes, for years they sat on this book and broke every rule in it, but when Russia does something, well they pull out the law book and quote sections and paragraphs.

"Mogherini went on to say that this agreement constitutes "a violation of the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Georgia and is contrary to international law."

Duplicity at its best!! However, what the US did in Kosovo is not an infringement on another state's territorial integrity? I can't believe the gull of these people, they talk from their ass. The US has the God given right to terrorize and steal resources from other countries in the name of democracy however, when Russia attempts to protect itself from the Nato criminals, it becomes a different ball game. Totally unf***ing believable!!!

Russia has almost stopped to pay attention to what the West will say or do because NATO states first decide to do something and then they seek for a pretext. Sanctions would happen with or without Crimea with or without Donbass with or without Magnitsky ect. Other tactics is to provoke Russia for something and then to blame it for the reaction. This time both lines were activated at the time after Georgia had been promised new NATO prospects. So the new treaty with Abkhazia is aimed not only against the West but mostly against Georgia as the chronicle provocateur of the region. It’s just a warning of the red line.

The irony is so lost on the EU that it's no longer funny to point out the broken logic.

To all our Serb commenters: Stop pretending! Your former Foreign Minister, Vuk "over my dead body" Jeremic, took this issue to the international court of justice and lost miserably. Kosovo's declaration of independence did not break any international law. Stop being hypocrites, just say: I support Russia because I want to, because they speak Slavic, because they won't cut the gas to Serbia for the winter, because every night in my dreams I see the Russian army marching over Kosovo, etc, etc, it would be more honest :).
(Reader, 25 November 2014 20:05)
To explain what happened in the International Court to a person like you would be a waste of time and effort as it would fly over your head, but I ask the obvious question then, why are you posting if it’s all in your dreams LOL.

Reader

Thanks for your advice ! Before you we didn’t know what to do and where to go. Now that you made things clear we’ll improve and we’ll obey everything America will tell us to do. Just like all other Europeans. Then on our knees they will let us in.

PS One thing you are right. Being aware that ICJ like most other international organizations are controlled by the US Serbia should not had applied here for justice. It was either naive or it was a kinda treason.

But what is ironic: Those Serbs who cheer and defend the support of Russia for ethnic separatists and terrorists in breakaway regions seem to be too blind to see that Kosovo Albanians must be very happy about that - because essentially it's the same thing.
(Comm. Parrisson, 26 November 2014 08:21)
You and the Serbia govt and nationalists keep trying to paint this picture, and you have enlisted Russian support for the subject. But it is not the same not by a milestone. Unless these regions have a similar Milosevic campaign, there will never be a true comparison. The support from the world is based on you and all Serbs believe that the brutality unleashed on Kosovo by your police, military and paramilitary means nothing and there is no assurances ever presented that the same thing would not happen tomorrow if Serbia had the chance.
As to whether your statement holds water I think can be summed up in the difference in 106 recognitions to 4. Remeber the timeline between Kosovo and the Georgian province is only a matter of a few months.

"The support from the world is based on you and all Serbs believe that the brutality unleashed on Kosovo by your police, military and paramilitary means nothing and there is no assurances ever presented that the same thing would not happen tomorrow if Serbia had the chance. "
(a New Day, 26 November 2014 12:12)

The brutal oppression by the Milosevic regime is true, but was nowhere mentioned in the ICY ruling about the legality of the Kosovo Declaration of independence. Russians argue that only their intervention prevented a similar thing - you will never know if it was true, but the wording of some Ukrainian politicians about what to do with the Russian minority was not much different to the hate speeches of Mr. 'Rusty Spoon' Seslj.

(Comm. Parrisson, 26 November 2014 13:33)
Yes Russia DID try to claim they were preventing the same thing but was it credible??? Apparently, no one believes it, or some of the countries supporting Kosovo would have also recognized by now. If you see someone brutally assaulting someone and you use force to stop them, then most people and courts would exonerate you, but if you attack someone walking down the street and claim that you did so because you believe they would brutally assault someone then I doubt most people including Russians or even Russian courts would say you were justified. Even though no one will ever know if they would have or wouldn't have.
Also the argument makes Russia look hypocritical in that if they are saying they are the same and it was something that warranted them to use force and to recognize then there would be no reason not to do so for Kosovo. But at least the west is saying they are not the same.
No there was no mention in the ICJ opinion about the brutality leading up to the DOI of Kosovo and why?, back to the same thing they were answering a question put to it by the Serbian govt, pure and simple did it violate international laws, the answer is no. The question was never did the brutality justify the DOI.

I think you are misinterpreting decision made at International Court of Justice, Reader.
Question put before the court was "Is Kosovo's declaration of independence legal?" and they used wording of the question to avoid giving actual answer to the real question - "Is Kosovo's independence legal?"
Their answer was pretty much- "Yes. It's not contrary to the international law to declare whatever you want."
They even clarified that while declaring something is not illegal, it may not make it so just because you declared it...
Example, I hereby declare myself to be King of the Universe!
Did I break any international laws? No.
Bring it before the court and they will deliberate that my DECLARATION was not illegal, as I have a right to declare whatever I want.
Now, with my declaration judged legal, does that mean I really am King of the Universe?
No. That's entirely different question and ICJ avoided giving an answer to the real question, choosing to answer only what was asked from them...
And now we can go back to thinking whatever we were thinking before, and I can tell you "You took my declaration of being King of the Universe to court, and lost. Now bow down before me my subject. Court proved that I am legal King of the Universe."
And you can go back to thinking that court did not, in fact, declared me legal King of the Universe, but only that me declaring something is not illegal....
And, of course, refuse to bow down.
Hope that clears it for you a bit.

"To all our Serb commenters: Stop pretending! Your former Foreign Minister, Vuk "over my dead body" Jeremic, took this issue to the international court of justice and lost miserably. Kosovo's declaration of independence did not break any international law. "
(Reader, 25 November 2014 20:05)

Well, the ICJ would probably rule about the legality of the the Crime secession the same way - but Russia doesn't care and doesn't ask. If such secessions violate territorial integrity and are illegal regarding the constitutions of the countries the territory belongs to seems to be not important for the decision, which basically said: Every group of people has the right to DECLARE itself independent and it's the matter of other states to RECOGNIZE the independence or not, and only recognition makes the statehood, not declaration.

But what is ironic: Those Serbs who cheer and defend the support of Russia for ethnic separatists and terrorists in breakaway regions seem to be too blind to see that Kosovo Albanians must be very happy about that - because essentially it's the same thing. At least Serbia's government is smart enough to stick to the principle of territorial integrity and sovereignty of states in case of Ukraine, though it doesn't dare to criticize Russia which blatantly violated that principle.

Question put before the court was "Is Kosovo's declaration of independence legal?" and they used wording of the question to avoid giving actual answer to the real question - "Is Kosovo's independence legal?"
(Sreten, 26 November 2014 07:24)

LOL, it is good to see you are using the same arguments of the supporters of Kosovo during the ICJ proceedings. This was what everybody on Kosovo's side was saying all the time. Here, to help you, read the argument of Prof. James Crawford (the guy everybody from Serbia's camp was citing from), page 46:
http://www.icj-cij.org/docket/files/141/15734.pdf

Remember Sreten, it was your former FM who came up with the question. Why do you say "to avoid answering the real question?". Why didn't little Vuk ask the real question in the first place?

Bottom line is, as long as no authoritative institution has said that Kosovo's independence is illegal, then it is not, and the only chance Serbia had to get an answer from an authoritative body in international law, it played hide and seek. On purpose!!! That is what you need to ponder on :).

"You took my declaration of being King of the Universe to court, and lost. Now bow down before me my subject. Court proved that I am legal King of the Universe."
And you can go back to thinking that court did not, in fact, declared me legal King of the Universe, but only that me declaring something is not illegal....
And, of course, refuse to bow down.
Hope that clears it for you a bit.
(Sreten, 26 November 2014 07:24)
Of course you miss one very big point, well actually 2.
Courts answer the questions they are asked, and it was SERBIA who chose the question.
The other thing you are missing is if after the court says it is not illegal for you to claim you are the king of the universe, a majority of the countries in the world agree that you are then you start to have a legitimate claim.

To explain what happened in the International Court to a person like you would be a waste of time and effort as it would fly over your head, but I ask the obvious question then, why are you posting if it’s all in your dreams LOL.
(sj, 26 November 2014 09:48
True to form, when unable to make a validated argument, resort to petty childish insults. You could have been a star on Jerry Springer.

One thing you are right. Being aware that ICJ like most other international organizations are controlled by the US
(RK, 26 November 2014 09:10)

Really?!!! But according to the CE of B92 forums sj the US has collapsed and reading the postings of the most patriotic of Serbs here, it is Russia and China and the rest of the BRICS who control the world!!! So, either you are wrong or sj and the most patriotic of Serbs are wrong...

P.S. CE = Chief Economist

Their answer was pretty much- "Yes. It's not contrary to the international law to declare whatever you want."
(Sreten, 26 November 2014 07:24)

Well, first remove the quotes, because ICJ did not say that. You are saying that. ICJ said "The Court is the opinion that the declaration of independence of Kosovo adopted on 17 February 2008 did not violate international law".

So, it was a specific declaration (the one adpoted on 17/2/2008) by a specific entity (Kosovo) that did not violate international law. That does not even cover Kosovo's declaration of independence adopted on 22/09/1991, let alone other declarations.

You're flogging a dead horse here... My advice, go read the actual ICJ opinion rather than relying on interpretations of the opinion, because the opinion was very clear, direct and concise in replying to the question asked. You don't need to have a PhD in Law to understand it. It's just one sentence that I quoted above.