"Not Serbia's fault it was victorious in wars"

Ottomans
Austro-Hungarians
Germans
Nazis (USTASE, SS HANDZAR AND SS SKENDERBEG)

Next NATO....

Serbia's enemy's will never learn from there repeated mistakes... You can not and will never destroy Serbdom... How many more Empires must you bring to our door for you tall fall at our knees! Nikolic is right we was the first resistance movement in Europe in WWII that says it all...

still, mr Nikolic is showing the collective paranoia that inhabits the heavenly people, namely, the everybody-has-it-in-for-us complex
(Nikolle, 4 April 2014 14:07)


You know, try as hard as I could, but I just couldn't find enough people here really that worried over the life and legacy of Gavrilo Princip. Maybe it's me, or maybe it's the company I keep, but I really don't understand the need by some to rewrite Princip as some terrorist that triggered a war that Austria desperately wanted; nor do I understand the need to defend the legacy of a man who is not in any danger of being rewritten as anyone other than who he was. If Toma is responding to some fringe group in Bosnia who wants to blame Serbia for something 100 years ago, that's his fault for taking them seriously. As far as I'm concerned, the Great War would have happened whether some idiotic Archduke decided to visit Sarajevo on Vidovdan or not.

Serbia won every armed conflict where Western forces did not intervene. NATO is the common denominator to every Serbian defea. That's not even something to be ashamed of because no one Nation could defend itself against NATO, probably not even China.

In 20 years the emerging markets of the world will completely diminish the geo-political significance of the entire Balkans (and a lot of Europe too). Things change, kids.
(Ari Gold, 4 April 2014 20:07)

Serbia was only "victorious" in WW1 and WW2 because Allied Countries intervened and saved her.

It wasn't Serbia who was "victorious", Serbia relied on other countries to liberate her after she was militarilly defeated and exhuasted.

Nikolić said and noted it was "not Serbia's fault that it won all the wars."

Mr. Undertaker,
Please name a war that Serbia won??? AS FOR COMMITTING MASSACRES ON CIVILIANS, YOU ARE #1.

The fuel that was needed to spark off the 1st world war was actually created 75 years prior to the event.
The 19th century was the period of the great Empires of Prussia (germany), France, England, Russia and Austria-Hungary (AH). They were all in constant need of more land to bring them richness and prestige.
This imperialistic behaviour brought conflict and in order to minimise conflict between them they made pacts.
The AH empire had for a long time wanted to annex Serbia to their empire as they had done with Bosnia, Slovenia and Croatia. They finally had an excuse when Gavrilo Princip, affiliated to an underground bunch of Serb nationalists, the 'Black Hand', pulled the trigger of the gun that killed Franz Ferdinand, the nephew of the AH Emperor.
AH then made some impossible demands on Serbia or they would invade. Russia wouldn't have anything of it and warned AH to stay out and this is where those pacts came in.
France had a pact with Russia. Germany had a pact with AH and because they lost a previous war with France and wanted the lands of Russia they declared war on both France and Russia. In order to get to France the Germans had to move through Belgium but this little country had a pact with England who, in order to protect Belgium, declared war on Germany.
It wasn't Serbia that had started the war it was the Germans who were eager to gain more lands in the East and by getting 'one over' on the French.
Shit happens to the vain and greedy!

Please name a war that Serbia won??? AS FOR COMMITTING MASSACRES ON CIVILIANS, YOU ARE #1.
(the truth, 4 April 2014 16:44)

Wars Serbia won

1. The First Balkan War
2. The Second Balkan War
3. World War I
4. World War II

Committing Massacres on Civilians

1. China
2. Soviet Union
3. Germany
4. Cambodia
5. Iraq
6. United States

If you're going to call yourself "the truth", try using it.

Yes it is true,but this doesn't give Serbia carte blanche,to murder and rape everyone in Balkan.
49 raping sites are being found in Kosovo cities where serbs were raping albanian wome whose mubers go up to 15 thousand.
Serb were raping nuns in Croatia,let alone murders which took place in Bosnia and blah blah blah blah

(Mirel from Albania, 4 April 2014 21:46)

Mirel, what on earth does your comment have to do with the article? I live in New York, man, and I didn't rape anybody. Much less everyone in the Balkans.

But if you want to start a conversation about collective guilt, I can tell you that some of your Albanian countrymen are selling a lot of drugs here, trafficking women, and making life ugly for us.

Calm down, dude. People in glass houses shouldn't cast stones.

well, i wouldn't say WW1 was Serbia's fault, but it was the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand that sparked it. You can go round the bush as much as you like, we'll never know how history might have panned out had Gavrilo Princip not pulled the trigger. still, mr Nikolic is showing the collective paranoia that inhabits the heavenly people, namely, the everybody-has-it-in-for-us complex

"The truth" @@

Serbia won every armed conflict where Western forces did not intervene. NATO is the common denominator to every Serbian defea. That's not even something to be ashamed of because no one Nation could defend itself against NATO, probably not even China.

In 20 years the emerging markets of the world will completely diminish the geo-political significance of the entire Balkans (and a lot of Europe too). Things change, kids.

Two things here:

1) Everyone who has studied history knows that the Black Hand with its instigator Apis were behind the assassinations in Sarajevo. They prepared Princip et al to carry out the murders which led to the war.

2) "the English and the French were already fighting against Germans in Africa" complete BS!

..."Not Serbia's fault it was victorious in wars"...

Yes it is true,but this doesn't give Serbia carte blanche,to murder and rape everyone in Balkan.
49 raping sites are being found in Kosovo cities where serbs were raping albanian wome whose mubers go up to 15 thousand.
Serb were raping nuns in Croatia,let alone murders which took place in Bosnia and Kosovo.

Everyone knows that they awere not looking for UCK(KLA).
KLA was not in Prishtina downtown where a 102 year old was killed by serbs.KLA was in mountains.
Rapes and killings happened in towns( not in mountains where UCK/KLA was operating) where albanians didn't have a chance to escape.

And after all,without a formal apology,you have the audacity ask to rule albanians again?

"The Great War is over, but in some heads it id not finished well," Nikolić said and noted...

WW2 is over, but in most Serbian heads it did not finish well and they feel threatened by 'Nazis', 'Ustashe' and whoever, not seeing that their own nationalists are nothing different but the name - same ideas, same actions, as you could see in the ex-YU wars.

P.S: There are even supporters of Nazi ideas in Israel - only with different scapegoats.

T. Nikolic the entire world can't be wrong, and only radicals like u in Serbia being right, can it? We know quite well, that many of Serbia's top leadership to this day belong to the same radical terrorist group that old garvilo belonged to! Anyway, here's what history has to say about the subject!
http://m.imdb.com/name/nm1532728/bio

"The Great War is over, but in some heads it id not finished well," Nikolić said and noted it was "not Serbia's fault that it won all the wars." In reference to the fact the country fought on the side of the Allies, he noted that Serbia was "on the side which it knew was right, without knowing it would win."

Ok, good... Since Serbia was victorious in all the wars, then please stop whining every day about being victim of conspiracies!

Neither Germany nor Serbia were responsible for starting WWI, it was the Austro-Hungarian Empire. Austria started WWI and an Austrian started WWII.

Nikolić said and noted it was "not Serbia's fault that it won all the wars."

Mr. Undertaker,
Please name a war that Serbia won???

WW1 and WW2, is that enough?

@Paul, 4 April 2014 22:22


"Neither Germany nor Serbia were responsible for starting WWI, it was the Austro-Hungarian Empire. Austria started WWI and an Austrian started WWII."

===

I disagree.

There are numerous historical sources, buth documentary evidence and contemporary accounts, that can demonstrate that it was precisely Germany that was pushing for war, and that Austro-Hungary was actually a reluctant party in the war effort. Numerous court officials, particularly the Hungarian prime minister of Austro-Hungary (Istvan Tisza) were on record as urging the aging monarch NOT to declare war on Serbia. Other notable examples abound (Still, it remains the historical fact that the war hysteria was strongest in Vienna). Unfortunately, the biggest and the most influential Austrian warmonger, Conrad Von Hoetzendorf, also happened to be the the commander of the Austrian chiefs of staff, so his bellicose views on Serbia ultimately prevailed.

On the other hand, German joint chiefs of staff was swarming with anti-Serbian venom, with practically every senior army officer pushing for war against Serbs. And not only the army staff: Keiser and his prime minister, Theobald von Bethmann-Hollweg, particularly the former, essentially endorsed and suppored every war move. The German prime minister actually went so far as to falsify the British message to Kaiser in order to prevent peace mediation with Serbia.

(NjegosUK, 4 April 2014 16:14)

Njegosh you live in NATO country why live inside the enemies belly but in the Breast of Russia or Mother Serbia. How do you hate and live in UK, I have had many opportunities to be Expat in Russia but just choose not to go there.

Cheers.

If Serbia won all wars how come Serbs are crying wolf these days? Nikolic has become like Dodik, says stuff that has no meaning. By the way if Serbia won all wars how come it doesn't accept the recommendation of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) on the cessation of refugee status of refugees from Croatia?

Ian your comment as usual is "Top of the Pops" in terms of it's complete revision of historical fact. Nice try you may convince yourself but no real historian's going to buy into that rubbish. Find a new home we don't want you here.

To all the idiots and their alternative history.

The Kingdom of Serbia did have some early success in WW1 with the Battles of Cer, Drina anf Kolubara all in 1914. But by 1915, the Kingdom of Serbia was defeated, her army was stranded on the Greek Island of Corfu. The Kingdom of Serbia was under Austro-Hungarian military administration from 1915 to 1918. The remaining Serbian forces then had some joint success against Bulgaria with Montenegro, UK, France, Italy, Greece, Russia, Romania ect.

The Kingdom of Serbia was only victorious in WW1 as it happened to be on the winning side. The Kingdom of Sebria in WW1 was militarilly defeated, exhuasted and occupied. FACT!

It isn't anti-Serb (as some have claimed) for me to say this because it is what happened, it is a historical fact. If historical facts offend you, don't blame me, I played no part in them!

@Ian

And to you honesty believe we are told the truth here in the UK?! No we are not when i was at school i was told it was Serbia's fault for starting WWI then it turns out the Germans had been planning for years...
Or the British media i mean come on did we ever find weapons of mass destruction on Iraq or the supposed 100,000+ plus dead Albanians in Kosovo no we wasn't we lied to all the time... And yea we did fight till the death but do did the British you forget it Germany government hadn't surrenders the Brits would of never stepped one foot in Germany...
Plus i love the fact how you totally dismiss the fact Serbs were the first resistance movement in occupied Europe we even over threw our leader after they signed a pact with he Nazis..,
I mean Cika Draza was given then Legion of Merit down to the fact of what him and his men did especially saving 500 allied airmen...
Like ive said before i know you have pro Albanian feelings and even Albanians from either on here and or at the car wash...

But i will warn you know and goes for the rest of you Serb haters, you have not and will not ever learn! You can push us the to the ground but you will never brake us, and one day we will come back and take revenge... Just ask the Ottomans, Austro-Hungarians, Italians, Nazis, Communists... I mean thats why some of you on here went crying to America... Croatians, Albanians and Bosnians, remember USA wont be there for ever to protect you...

Actually Serbia was one of the ONLY countries in WW1 & WW2 to virtually liberate it's own territories by itself! We also have the honor of being the first country to land the first Allied victory in WW1. Google "Battle of Cer". The Serbian army defeated an army with 10x the resources of its own. (according to US president Truman). They actually raised the Serbian flag over the WhiteHouse that day.

But let's not forget WWII... You cannot erase history my friend. You wish you could, but it cannot and will not be done.

Hitlers No. 1 Headache

http://www.babamim.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/images/DSCN0598.15675914_std.JPG

http://www.babamim.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/images/DSCN0597.15675450_std.JPG

And...

TIME Magazine had Chica Draza Mihailovich on the cover of their magazine and people around the world hailed the leader and his heroic resistance fighters in 1941, the FIRST to stand up to Hitler's Germany.

http://www.babamim.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/images/180px-MIHAILOVIC.15675144_std.jpg

I am VERY proud of my Grandfather who served in BOTH world wars.

Too bad some of you can't say the same about yours.

@Ian, UK, 5 April 2014 09:12

Ian, my friend, you OBVIOUSLY don't have a faintest idea what you are talking about.

While a case can be made that Russians did help the Serbs in the WW2 (surely, the 100,000 Russians who died in Serbia fighting the nazis did MUCH more for us that the ZERO Brits who did the same) there is absolutely NO DOUBT that we, the Serbs won the WW1 pretty much all by ourselves and WITHOUT SIGNIFICANT TECHNICAL, FINANCIAL AND LOGISTICAL assistance from the Allies. The sole British contribution to our victory was bombing of Belgrade in 1944.

The biggest WW1 help we received was from the Greeks (who lent us their land and their hearts and joined our military operations in Macedonia) and from the French, who fought alongside Serbs against the Austrians and Bulgarians. But even the most hostile, most blatantly biased, anti-Serbian historian can't deny that 95% of the heavy lifting on the Salonika front - the breaching of which essentially broke the back of the Central Powers, without which the Brave British could EASILY have lost the war - was done by the Serbs and Serbs alone. The decisive 1918 battles against Bulgaria were 100% Serbian, and close to 90% of critical fighting with the Austrians was done by Serbs. I assure you that without the Serbs, Keiser Wilhelm's descendants would today be making cameo appearances on the Buckingham Palace's balcony and you guys would be speaking English (or Gerglish) with a thick Prussian accent.

"I assure you that without the Serbs, Keiser Wilhelm's descendants would today be making cameo appearances on the Buckingham Palace"

Are you seriously suggesting that the British only staved off Nazi invasion because of the Serbs? dear me, you have an inflated sense of self importance. Serbs, like pretty much the rest of the Balkans, are a truly insignificant bunch in world affairs. After all, if you truly were as important as you pompous post suggests, the world wouldn't give Kosova independence. what people from the Balkans come up with, always makes me chuckle

"Serbia won every armed conflict where Western forces did not intervene."
(Ari Gold, 4 April 2014 20:07)

Like Germany won all wars where allied forces didn't intervene :LOL

Serbia was only "victorious" in WW1 and WW2 because Allied Countries intervened and saved her.

It wasn't Serbia who was "victorious", Serbia relied on other countries to liberate her after she was militarilly defeated and exhuasted.
(Ian, UK, 5 April 2014 09:12)

You need to check your history again Ian. The Austro-Hungarian army was defeated by Serbia alone in the battle of Kolubara in 1914 which Serbia liberated Belgrade after it had been briefly occupied. Of course, such a battle took its toll and Serbia was occupied eventually, but it was liberated by its own troops with Greek and French support in 1918.

You might find that Serbia or rather Yugoslavia was victorious in 1945. The country was liberated by its own troops without any significant allied help - except some from the USSR. The only country (apart from Italy and Greece to some extent) who succeeded in driving out the axis armies without being liberated by allied forces.

Serbia was only "victorious" in WW1 and WW2 because Allied Countries intervened and saved her.

It wasn't Serbia who was "victorious", Serbia relied on other countries to liberate her after she was militarilly defeated and exhuasted.
(Ian, UK, 5 April 2014 09:12)

Ian i ll give you a history lesson shall i first we was the first nation to win a battle on the allies side of world war one, secondly by time the Russians had turned up Yugoslav Partisan had more or less sent the Nazi scum back and another thing Serbian army did not actively take part in the Bosnia wars as it is well documented the Yugoslav wars was civil one not a nation vs another

I see the circus is back and its dumbest clowns back on here Ian aka Coco the clown

(NjegosUK, 7 April 2014 14:18)

Eh?

I think you need to take a chill pill.

You have gone off at a tangent and are ranting on about things which are irrelevant and unrelated to what I've said in my post. This is probably because you're a brainwashed deluded nationalist who is incapable of having an intelligent conversation.

"Srebrenica is an exagerated story“." much like Serb suffering in Croatia in the 90's eh sj? p.s. Universities around the world today, including in your own beloved Australia learn about Srebrenica. but don't worry, we have you to tell us that its all lies

To quote a favourite song: "Words get written, words get twisted, old meanings move in the drift of time".
And so it is with those who want to make up their own version of historical events to suit their agenda. The truth is that there were so many agenda's behind the scenes, that we probably will never have the truth!
But to suggest Serbia somehow conned the world into WW1 is stupidly naive and gives way too much credit to a bunch of amatuer would-be assasins.
Serbia had just come off victories in the Balkan Wars which was embarrasing for the Austrians in particular.
Does anybody beleieve that such an amatuerish effort to assasinate FF would come from a state that had just won 2 wars in a row??? Seriously people, get a grip.

No i haven't gone of tangent im giving you a true history lesson, if i am nationalist to love my country, people, heritage and culture then i am guilty if being a nationalist and i am also guilty of been proud of this too!!!
Id rather be deemed that then some left with liberal from Western Europe who lives in Oxenphone who has probably never been to Serbia or maybe not even the Balkans! Thinking he can come on here preach about Serbia and demonize Serbs and lecture us on morals when they west have not a leg to stand on compared to morals! And like ive said before i know you have Albanian friends or one touched you up or something like that or maybe you watched Taken and felt sorry for them who knows... But who the hell are you to lecture Serbs on there history and culture and way of life... You are no one that who is who you are a nobody who thinks he has the right to lecture and tell people the absolute garbage you come out and distorted views i tell you why Serbs are demonized and hate its down to the fact we haven't changed or been brought under the rule of others look at our true history you will see even when occupied we haven't changed or succumbed to change!

Its clear by all on here you anti Serbian, i know plenty of British people who look at the bigger picture and support and love Serbia! But you Ian believe what the BBC and other media and actually think your intelligent and a position to lecture when really you know nothing COCO THE CLOWN!

@Ian, UK, 7 April 2014 12:35

"To all the idiots and their alternative history"

==

Ian:

Why are you even bothering talking to the little Serbian "idiots" who refuse to toe your revisionist Anglos-Saxon history line and who happen to know their own history better than you do?

Here is some information for you:

1. "Occupied" and "defeated" are not the same. Just ask Russians, Chinese or Afghans.

2. Serbian army was not "stranded" in Corfu. It quickly regrouped and refreshed and continued it's victiorious march to Belgrade, and beyond.

3. The what you call "Serbian...joint success with Montenegro, UK, France, Italy, Greece, Russia, Romania ect." (sic) is laughable. Russia and Romania were COMPLETELY ABSENT from the Salonika theater of operations, Italian and British presence was, at best, ephemeral and perfunctory. Only the Greeks and the French helped us, and the Serbs comprised close to 90% of the battle force in the critical days of the war.

3. Serbia did not only have "some early success" . Those were three resonding, overwhelming, heroic victories against much, much more powerful enemies, which gave the allies their FIRST vicory in the war. Serbs lost only one battle: the Mackensen offensive of 1916:

4. This is what our enemy said:

http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=F2071FF73F5E1A738DDDAE0994DB405B888DF1D3

5. Serbs lost 1/3 of it's population in WW1. Please don't tell me that it was the Brits who liberated us.

(Nikolle, 7 April 2014 11:04)

"Are you seriously suggesting that the British only staved off Nazi invasion because of the Serbs? "

No, Nikolie, you have your pots and pans mixed up a little. I was referring to the WW1, not WW2.

Yes, I am SAYING - not merely suggesting, I am openly saying - that without little Serbia, the British Empire would not exist, or would exist only as a petty subsidiary, a lesser frnge province of the Prussian Empire.

On the VERY LAST DAY of the war - JUST HOURS BEFORE ARMISTICE WAS SIGNED - General Pershing lost (needlessly) about 2,000 young American lives trying to defeat the Germans. On the VERY LAST DAY of the war, the Germans were STILL grinding the combined American-British force TO A MASHED POTATO. Seriously!

http://www.historynet.com/world-war-i-wasted-lives-on-armistice-day.htm

While this British-American war DEBACLE was going on. the victorious Serbian army advancing from the south-east (aided by Italians advancing from the south some 1200 miles away) smashed Bulgaria all by itself, then continued to Hungary (in less than a month) and ended up at the gates of Vienna, pretty much within a month (October 15 - NOvember 18. 1918).

Yes, Nikolie, without those evil Serbs, the proud Brits would today be Prussian subjects, carrying Prussian passports and saluting the black and white flag of the Prussian empire. In hindsight, perhaps, the world would have been a better place this way.

@ Ian, UK, 5 April 2014 09:12

Oh you are back Ian, I though you were suppost to be setting up the red carpet for you muslim brothers to impregnate your daughters and mothers?

Serbs were the first allied nations to score victories in the first world war. Serbs singlehandedly defeated the Austro Hungarian and Ottomon Empire army (2 super powers) but was eventually taken over when 5 nations attacked it.

Its funny how the English hate the Serbs, without Serbia you would and I would be having this conversation in Turkish or German, and you would still be discovering the wheel.

Please prepare your daughters and your mothers womb for the jihadist to impregnate them.

If you can call the decimation of your population victory, be my guest. What was the number of Serrbian casualties in the end? We are told half of the men, one third of the women dead? I wonder what those victims would have thought of Gavrilo Princip and the Black Hand. Today Serbia would have been a nation of 15 million people. It could have had Bosnia and Krajina and maybe even Kosovo just with the numbers, peacefully.

Someone says WWI would have happened anyway. Maybe yes, maybe no, and if yes why do you want to be the one state where the first blow, the most hardest one, will be delivered? Why not let Germany and France start it, or Germany and Russia, or AH and Italy? No matter how one looks at it, it was just stupid.

Serbia won every armed conflict where Western forces did not intervene. NATO is the common denominator to every Serbian defea. That's not even something to be ashamed of because no one Nation could defend itself against NATO, probably not even China.

In 20 years the emerging markets of the world will completely diminish the geo-political significance of the entire Balkans (and a lot of Europe too). Things change, kids.
(Ari Gold, 4 April 2014 20:07)


Ari,

Would you be so kind as to name one war that Serbia has ever one. I do not believe there is any reason to be proud since Serbia has never tasted victory in battle.

Yes, I am SAYING - not merely suggesting, I am openly saying - that without little Serbia, the British Empire would not exist, or would exist only as a petty subsidiary, a lesser frnge province of the Prussian Empire.
(DEDA CVETKO, 7 April 2014 18:28)

Nice, let me guess what you next statement is going to be... Perhaps, that without little Albania, the Soviet Union would not exist and would have been defeated by the Nazis. People in the Balkans have some really wild fantasies:)

Serbia with the help of Orthodox Balkan allies actually defeated the Ottoman Empire in the Balkan Wars just before WWI. But don't kid yourself, Serbia did not win in WWII. The Yugoslav communists won and Serbia was defeated. This followed over 50 years of equating the Royalist Chetniks (which your government betrayed) with the Nazi Croatian ustashe as well as forcing Serbs in Krajina to once again be subjected to living under a Croatian republic which exterminated their relatives. Creations of "nation states" in Montenegro, Bosnia, FYR Macedonia and autonomy for "Vojvodina" & Kosovo i Metohija were all examples of communist policy aimed at systematically weakening the Serbian people.

The Allies as a whole brought the German aggression to a halt, both in WWI and WWII. The Serbian nation sacrificed a lot for that to happen. In WWI, Serbia lost over 25% of its entire population. In WWII, Serbs were exterminated in concentration camps throughout Croatia and Jasenovac alone 700, 000 civilians exterminated.

Serbia sacrificed a lot but in the 90s, her traditional allies stood on the side of Germany and betrayed Serbia. Much like they did in WWII when it sided with the Yugoslav communists at Serbia's expense.

Serbia was only "victorious" in WW1 and WW2 because Allied Countries intervened and saved her.

Not true at all, learn the history before you comment and read for example about "Solunski front". And in ww2 it was the partizans that defeated the germans and drove them away with little help from the british.

"... Just ask the Ottomans, Austro-Hungarians..."
oh dear, for starters, there's no Ottomans left these days. There is Turkey of course, but the Turkish Republic is a different entity from the Ottoman Empire. Same for Austro-Hungarians. However, you have an odd notion of victory. Serbia, or rather, the territory of Serbia, was under direct Ottoman rule for nigh on 500 years. Serbs, like others, only got independence from the Ottomans after the Empire began to weaken and even then, with a great deal of help from Russia. Serbs by themselves, would not have beaten the Ottomans and you'd be deluded to think that they would have done. Serbia, capitulated very soon after Austria-Hungary launched war on it. Its a fact. It was only victorious, because it fought on the side of the allies. Serbs by themselves, would NEVER have defeated the Austro-Hungarians. the reason for that is really simple, Serbia was never as strong as said Empire. but if it cheers you up to believe that the heavenly people are these brave folk standing up to tyrants, do believe it. you're 100% wrong, but that's another thing

@Nikolle, 7 April 2014 16:00

"oh dear, for starters, there's no Ottomans left these days. . There is Turkey of course, but the Turkish Republic is a different entity from the Ottoman Empire. "

- Did you try explaining this to Tayyip Recep Erdogan? I think he would beg to differ.

"Same for Austro-Hungarians."

- True. Empires go, but their agendas and programs remain. Check under 'Holy Roman Empire'

"However, you have an odd notion of victory"

- Interesting that the British still cling on to their "odd notion" of victories and still celebrate them.


"Serbs, like others (?), only got independence from the Ottomans after the Empire began to weaken and even then, with a great deal of help from Russia."

- Complete hogwash. Russia was completely ABSENT from the Serbian rebellion: they were too busy doing other things, such as chasing Napoleon.


"Serbs by themselves, would not have beaten the Ottomans and you'd be deluded to think that they would have done."

How is the weather on your galaxy? Can you name me ONE foreign army that helped Serbia win independence in 1878? Only one!


"Serbia, capitulated very soon after Austria-Hungary launched war on it."

Very soon? After 18 months of fighting, three major victories and after evicting the enemy from our Land? What's in your water?


"Its a fact. It was only victorious, because it fought on the side of the allies."

Sure, honey. And Holocaust didn't exist, right? [hint: sarcasm]

".. and one day we will come back and take revenge... Just ask the Ottomans, Austro-Hungarians, Italians, Nazis, Communists... I mean thats why some of you on here went crying to America... Croatians, Albanians and Bosnians, remember USA wont be there for ever to protect you..."
(NjegosUK


We all do expect and know that none of those W.nations or USA will show 'us' any support, when Serbia tries to take revenge. Only, you need to know a few things before you try it. Those nations that separated from FY are not like what they were in 1991. And, those nations are no longer led by weak, "stylishly" dressed and inarticulate leaders. Also, Those nations have armies and arsenals to match and even leave Serb army in the dust. Not to mention the national will and trained soldiers to take on any threat from Serbia again. If you think the people your Serbian war machine decimated and laid waste have no stomach to fight Serbia again, think again. This time, we pray the western powers and your Russian/Slav brethren, stay out of your "revenge" actions and our way, while we pre-empt any attempt from your people to strike at "us".
You need to remember that a sizable percentage of your population are not ethnic Serbs. And, if you think that they will stay neutral, think again. So, careful what you threaten, it could come true and results may turn out to different and put an end to Serb attempts at threats its neighbors for good.

"Did you try explaining this to Tayyip Recep Erdogan?"

i have never met him and as such, have no opportunity to pass this on. still, my point remains, the Turkish Republic and the Ottoman Empire are different entities. Much like Italy and Rome.

" Interesting that the British still cling on to their "odd notion" of victories and still celebrate them"
no idea what you're on about here. historical fact is this, what is today's Serbia was under direct Ottoman rule for near on 500 years. if we give 20 years for one generation, that leaves 25 generations of Serbs who did not 'beat' the Ottomans. if I take your logic, the Albanians beat the Ottomans too.
"Can you name me ONE foreign army that helped Serbia win independence in 1878? Only one!"
oh dear me, foreign help doesn't take the form of military intervention only. the Ottomans were already weakened by wars against Russia, culminating in the treaty of San Stefano. Russia, having assigned itself protector of all Orthodox people, guaranteed Serbia's breakaway from the Ottomans, much like Austria-Hungary & Italy are to be thanked for Albania's independence in 1912. don't worry, I know people in the Balkans have myths that they take for truths, but we can emancipate ourselves from all that.

as for this "Sure, honey. And Holocaust didn't exist, right?"...have never denied the Halocaust and am never going to. unlike certain groups who deny the genocide of Srebrenica and all

(Ian, UK, 8 April 2014 16:36)

There were alliances, but it was the Entente Powers that gave birth to the "Allies". Serbia was a part of that. The Allied did not "save" Serbia, the Allies came to fight for one of their own. And Serbia in return lost a quarter of its entire population for that struggle.

LOL Battle of Britain. Good job, you managed to save your island from being invaded. And that is of course the only reason why, because its an island. If it wasn't for the U.S. intervening, you would be speaking German now. The USSR gave a lot of lives too. Britain and France dropped the ball.

(Nikolle, 9 April 2014 10:53)

From what I recall Cambridge and Oxford are prestigious Universities and UCL does not fall in that category. But on the subject of genocide does UCL teach its students about the gencoide its military committed on South Africans during the Boer War – you are aware that the Brits were the first to run concentration camps where thousands perished during? Probably not.
I have several friends who are academics and no Austrlaian Universities teach fairy tales of that nature. Psst... neither does Oxford or Cambridge.
Let me repeat it for you – Robert Baer is an American CIA operative. He speaks several languages including Arabic and Farsi. He was interviewed on the wars in Yugoslavia and on the subject Srebrenica. Being a CIA man he was on your side not ours. He is the one who has made these statements not me.

no no sj, i know that i am talking to someone who takes conspiracies for truths, so there's no convincing you. let me repeat it for you, The UN Hague Tribunal is an international court. its not a NATO one. its one that was approved by Russia too. so go argue with them. oh and by the way, perhaps you want to visit Oxford & Cambridge Universities and see what they teach regarding the wars of former Yugoslavia. Regarding the Boer war, I am not aware that British Universities don't teach their students about the horrific treatment inflicted upon the Boers by the British army.
as for Robert Baer speaking Arabic and Farsi, do you think him being multilingual proves he's right? why on earth did you bring that to the equation? Ted Gunderson was also an FBI agent and says 9/11 was an inside job. conspiracies are just that sj, conspiracies

The UN Hague Tribunal is an international court. its not a NATO one. its one that was approved by Russia too. so go argue with them.
(Nikolle, 9 April 2014 12:30)

That's not fully correct because it understates Russia's role. That Court was not just approved by Russia... It was PROPOSED by Russia. Give to Caesar what is Caesar's...

Serbs are educated to believe that they were on the winning side in all wars except the Croat and Kosovo ones. As for the 49 rape "sites" alleged by someone, that is a bit of an exaggeration. The so called "Yellow House" were organs were extracted from Serbian victims shows a higher form of war plunder?

Ari,

Would you be so kind as to name one war that Serbia has ever one. I do not believe there is any reason to be proud since Serbia has never tasted victory in battle.
(The Count of Kosova, 5 April 2014 21:15

1. First Balcan war.
2. Second Balcan war.
3. WW1 (battle of Cer, battle of Kolubara)
4. Ww2 (Drove out the axis with help from the Russians).

That the British owe their non-invasion by Germany in WW1to the Serbs i have not hear a credible or serious historian make and I doubt I will ever hear such a thing. Since we're in the business of taking credit for things that we cant possibly claim credit for, let us nor forget the poetry that came out in the trenches, that too saved Briton from Germany. Tell me, what else do the Brits owe the heavenly people?

Ian, Serbia was an integral part of the Allied Powers, it was the very reason the Allies joined forces in the first place. Serbia fought two Balkan wars and 2 years after that, Serbia served as a founding member of the Allies. It was small in population obviously and military strength, but 25% of its population perished just in WWI.

The truth is, all of Europe would not have defeated the axis powers without the United States. That's especially true in WWII, the UK was supposed to be the country to lead the Allies against Nazi Germany, but they dropped the ball.

as for this "Sure, honey. And Holocaust didn't exist, right?"...have never denied the Halocaust and am never going to. unlike certain groups who deny the genocide of Srebrenica and all
(Nikolle, 8 April 2014 10:17)
That’s why I have no time for people like you and thus treat you accordingly. Rhwanda was genocide but ask Robert Bear, former CIA operative in the Balkans, about Srebrenica being genocide. Now what was it he said? Ahh yes, ’Srebrenica was a product of an agreement between the US government and Bosnian politicians“.....“ Srebrenica is an exagerated story“.

(Nikolle, 8 April 2014 15:16)

Hey Robert Baer was one of your allies not the Serbs – remember CIA operative????, but as I said before Rwanda was genocide and if that is what happened in Srebrenica then so be it, but funny how the Serbs let all the women and children go – wouldn’t genocide mean they would have been liquidated???
As Baer also said, the bodies buried in Porocari has no Muslims there just to make up the numbers. These are NOT MY WORDS but HIS.
Let me assure you that real Universities don’t fall for that clap trap. May be Pristina Centre for Remedial Learning might have that as its course.
You may have noticed that in the US more and more academics on international law are coming out and declaring that the bombing of Serbia and annexation of Kosovo was against international law – interesting. But in the next few years that situation will be remedied.

Oh dear, rest assured sj, that on my visit to London, at UCL no less (one of the more prestigious Universities in all of the World, never mind UK) students are taught about the genocide of Srebrenica. i'm pretty certain that Universities in Australia do the same. as for conspiracy theories, have read them all and i dismiss them for what they are, conspiracies. kinda like crackpots who believe that the US gov. had a direct involvement in 9/11

Hey Robert Baer was one of your allies not the Serbs – remember CIA operative????, but as I said before Rwanda was genocide and if that is what happened in Srebrenica then so be it, but funny how the Serbs let all the women and children go – wouldn’t genocide mean they would have been liquidated???
(sj, 9 April 2014 00:18)

Unfortunately those stupid lawyers at the UN did not define genocide as something that happens only when women and children are killed.
----------

You may have noticed that in the US more and more academics on international law are coming out and declaring that the bombing of Serbia and annexation of Kosovo was against international law – interesting. But in the next few years that situation will be remedied.
(sj, 9 April 2014 00:18)

Oh, great. I'm relieved now that in the next few years that situation will be remedied. I would have wished for that to happen in the next few months, but I guess I have to be patient like the Serbs.

Btw... who did annex Kosovo against international law? Russia?

Let me repeat it for you – Robert Baer is an American CIA operative.
(sj, 9 April 2014 12:11)

Oh, great... thanks for clarifying. According to the most patriotic of Serbs, he cannot be trusted.

Majority of germans have overcome chauvinism and nationalism. More than any other nation in the world actually. Compared to France, UK, USA who are all of them mentally still in the 19th century.
For the case of Serbia many serbs partly think we are still after them which is in my perception not the case. So if you want to judge germany by its people and not by merkel and some nato generals there should be no reason not to built a future based on peace and prosperity.

We all do expect and know that none of those W.nations or USA will show 'us' any support, when Serbia tries to take revenge. Only, you need to know a few things before you try it. Those nations that separated from FY are not like what they were in 1991. And, those nations are no longer led by weak, "stylishly" dressed and inarticulate leaders. Also, Those nations have armies and arsenals to match and even leave Serb army in the dust. Not to mention the national will and trained soldiers to take on any threat from Serbia again. If you think the people your Serbian war machine decimated and laid waste have no stomach to fight Serbia again, think again. This time, we pray the western powers and your Russian/Slav brethren, stay out of your "revenge" actions and our way, while we pre-empt any attempt from your people to strike at "us".
You need to remember that a sizable percentage of your population are not ethnic Serbs. And, if you think that they will stay neutral, think again. So, careful what you threaten, it could come true and results may turn out to different and put an end to Serb attempts at threats its neighbors for good.
Sorry but last time i checked Serbian army never stepped one foot in Croatia or Bosnia hence the term civil war! Kosovo they did as it is a part of Serbia, and if memory serves me right NATO tried in 1999 to destroy Serbia but failed miserably hence bombing of civilians and not just Serbs but Albanians too in Kosovo Humanitarian action for you!

(Ari Gold, 8 April 2014 11:09)

What is wrong with you? Military alliances/ pacts were formed well before the Balkan Wars and before Austria-Hungary declared war on Serbia.

Europe would have been defeated in WW2 without the USSR, not the USA.

WW2 could have been won without the US. The US made WW2 harder for the allies. US banks kept on giving loans to Nazi Germany all the way until 1945 because business is business to bankers. The US f**ked over the UK in WW2. The US gave the UK loans with ridiculously high interest rates, which we only finished off paying back in 2008. With the loans the US gave us, we were conditionally forced to use our loans to buy US rifles and ships from WW1 for a really expensive price. They were so rusty and old, we couldn't use them. The US economically crippled the UK in WW2. We would have been better off if they had kept out of WW2 and not funded the Nazis with loans. The US was the only country to profit from WW2! The only good the US did in WW2 was against Japan. The USSR pretty much single handedly defeated Nazi Germany.

The UK won the Battle of Britain on it's own which prevented a Nazi invasion. Nazi Germany would have eventually tried another invasion of Britain, but they shot themselves in the foot by invading the Soviet Union and they were too busy there after. The only help we had here were a few free Polish and Czech Military Pilots, oh and we had Ben Affleck too if you believe US BS Hollywood Propaganda!

(DEDA CVETKO, 7 April 2014 17:36)

I'm talking about the Serbian and Balkans campaign as a whole, not just the Salonika front.

Also, the Russians weren't COMPLETELY ABSENT from the Salonika front. Learn some history and read up on General Mikhail Diterikhs.

Also, I never said that Britain liberated Serbia.

".. Serbian army never stepped one foot in Croatia or Bosnia hence the term civil war! Kosovo they did as it is a part of Serbia, and if memory serves me right NATO tried in 1999 to destroy Serbia but failed miserably hence bombing of civilians and not just Serbs but Albanians too in Kosovo Humanitarian action for you!
(NjegosUK"

Your semantics, like Slobo's, did 'so much' to gain favor with the west. Serb semantics even failed to get Greece to nix Nato's bombing campaign over Serbia. Even Russia failed to save your people from Nato bombs. Your semantics won't work, period, except with your people who long to believe fantazmagoric lies again, just to feel ok being Serbian.

Again, we read what your leaders say in the press and we know this latest outgoing leader gushes out the same old crud just to bamboozle his own Serbian public with the upcoming finality on the Serbian recognition of the Kosova Republic and entrance into the EU. Your new leader at least is sticking to something your people can actually bank on, policy on improving the Serb economy, after they sign the final Brussels treaty with Kosova, and are finally made into the EU 'club'.

Threats of revenge will only make your people sadly repeat this history of loss, more bamboozle b.s. by your politicians, and again a forced peace with your adversary and forced to give up your fantasy 'cradle'.

We all know your politicians would never give up land/power so easily, 'cept 1 great Djingic may've done.

@Ian, UK, 8 April 2014 16:53


"...Also, the Russians weren't COMPLETELY ABSENT from the Salonika front. Learn some history and read up on General Mikhail Diterikhs.

Also, I never said that Britain liberated Serbia.

==

Firstly, Diterikhs had NO INVOLVEMENT WHATSOEVER in the final operations at the Salonika front. None. Zero. Nada. He was recalled to Russia a year earlier in order to become Russian minister of war (which he declined) and later became involved in Russian civil war. By 1918, he was too busy chasing Bolsheviks some 3,000 miles away.

Secondly, at the peak of the Russian presence in Macedonia, the Russian forces totaled two incomplete brigades (some 6,000 soldiers AT MOST). By the time Salonika front was breached, most, if not all of these units had already withdrawn to Russia in order to fight Trotsky. There is no reliable information about how many Russians remained in Macedonia after Diterikhs left, but it could not possibly have been more than 2,000 -- a presence I did not call ephemeral and symbolic for nothing.

Thirdly: there is a good reason why there were so few Russians left. The British General Staff feared the Russian presence in Serbia and intervened on time to "gently" push them out. Obviously, the City's Rotschilds were too busy supporting Trotsky to allow the Russo-Serbian kinship to jeopardize their Russian "investment".

Finally: no, you did not say that the Brits liberated Serbia. You only ever so subtly so insinuated.

(icj1, 8 April 2014 19:46)
Nice, let me guess what you next statement is going to be... Perhaps, that without little Albania, the Soviet Union would not exist (...)

-

OK...obviously you and your revisionist friends suffer from acute loss of historical memory. Allow me to rephtase what I'd said earlier, perhaps the gravity of the dreadful truth will set in this time:

ON THE VERY LAST DAY OF WAR - JUST HOURS BEFORE THE ARMISTICE WAS SIGNED - THE COMBINED ANGLO-SAXON FORCES (BRITS PLUS YANKS) LOST TWO THOUSAND (2,000) YOUNG MEN TO THE GERMANS.

With only MINUTES of the war left, the Germans were STILL beating the blood pudding out of the American forces and draining the 5:00 o' clock tea out of the British. The "defeated" German army was actually on the verge of a VERY major and VERY critical victory in the war when the Armistice was signed.

Guess why the Germans signed? The Serbs DESTROYED their ONLY ally and were heading north in a hurry. And no, they were NOT smiling.

Even under the best of circumstances, it would have been IMPOSSIBLE for the British - EVEN with the help from Colonel House - to defeat the Keiser's Army. But those were not the "best" of times. Au contraire. my dear Watson!

Imagine what would have happened if the Serbs were defeated instead of marching victoriously 1,500 miles north: Austria would not have fallen, Germans would have crossed LaManche, and Kate Middletown would be known as Katarina Von Mittelburg.

No need to thank me.

Nikolić said and noted it was "not Serbia's fault that it won all the wars."

Mr. Undertaker,
Please name a war that Serbia won??? AS FOR COMMITTING MASSACRES ON CIVILIANS, YOU ARE #1.

..."Not Serbia's fault it was victorious in wars"...

Yes it is true,but this doesn't give Serbia carte blanche,to murder and rape everyone in Balkan.
49 raping sites are being found in Kosovo cities where serbs were raping albanian wome whose mubers go up to 15 thousand.
Serb were raping nuns in Croatia,let alone murders which took place in Bosnia and Kosovo.

Everyone knows that they awere not looking for UCK(KLA).
KLA was not in Prishtina downtown where a 102 year old was killed by serbs.KLA was in mountains.
Rapes and killings happened in towns( not in mountains where UCK/KLA was operating) where albanians didn't have a chance to escape.

And after all,without a formal apology,you have the audacity ask to rule albanians again?

well, i wouldn't say WW1 was Serbia's fault, but it was the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand that sparked it. You can go round the bush as much as you like, we'll never know how history might have panned out had Gavrilo Princip not pulled the trigger. still, mr Nikolic is showing the collective paranoia that inhabits the heavenly people, namely, the everybody-has-it-in-for-us complex

T. Nikolic the entire world can't be wrong, and only radicals like u in Serbia being right, can it? We know quite well, that many of Serbia's top leadership to this day belong to the same radical terrorist group that old garvilo belonged to! Anyway, here's what history has to say about the subject!
http://m.imdb.com/name/nm1532728/bio

Serbia won every armed conflict where Western forces did not intervene. NATO is the common denominator to every Serbian defea. That's not even something to be ashamed of because no one Nation could defend itself against NATO, probably not even China.

In 20 years the emerging markets of the world will completely diminish the geo-political significance of the entire Balkans (and a lot of Europe too). Things change, kids.
(Ari Gold, 4 April 2014 20:07)

Serbia was only "victorious" in WW1 and WW2 because Allied Countries intervened and saved her.

It wasn't Serbia who was "victorious", Serbia relied on other countries to liberate her after she was militarilly defeated and exhuasted.

Two things here:

1) Everyone who has studied history knows that the Black Hand with its instigator Apis were behind the assassinations in Sarajevo. They prepared Princip et al to carry out the murders which led to the war.

2) "the English and the French were already fighting against Germans in Africa" complete BS!

"The Great War is over, but in some heads it id not finished well," Nikolić said and noted it was "not Serbia's fault that it won all the wars." In reference to the fact the country fought on the side of the Allies, he noted that Serbia was "on the side which it knew was right, without knowing it would win."

Ok, good... Since Serbia was victorious in all the wars, then please stop whining every day about being victim of conspiracies!

Ottomans
Austro-Hungarians
Germans
Nazis (USTASE, SS HANDZAR AND SS SKENDERBEG)

Next NATO....

Serbia's enemy's will never learn from there repeated mistakes... You can not and will never destroy Serbdom... How many more Empires must you bring to our door for you tall fall at our knees! Nikolic is right we was the first resistance movement in Europe in WWII that says it all...

If Serbia won all wars how come Serbs are crying wolf these days? Nikolic has become like Dodik, says stuff that has no meaning. By the way if Serbia won all wars how come it doesn't accept the recommendation of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) on the cessation of refugee status of refugees from Croatia?

(NjegosUK, 4 April 2014 16:14)

Njegosh you live in NATO country why live inside the enemies belly but in the Breast of Russia or Mother Serbia. How do you hate and live in UK, I have had many opportunities to be Expat in Russia but just choose not to go there.

Cheers.

Yes it is true,but this doesn't give Serbia carte blanche,to murder and rape everyone in Balkan.
49 raping sites are being found in Kosovo cities where serbs were raping albanian wome whose mubers go up to 15 thousand.
Serb were raping nuns in Croatia,let alone murders which took place in Bosnia and blah blah blah blah

(Mirel from Albania, 4 April 2014 21:46)

Mirel, what on earth does your comment have to do with the article? I live in New York, man, and I didn't rape anybody. Much less everyone in the Balkans.

But if you want to start a conversation about collective guilt, I can tell you that some of your Albanian countrymen are selling a lot of drugs here, trafficking women, and making life ugly for us.

Calm down, dude. People in glass houses shouldn't cast stones.

Nikolić said and noted it was "not Serbia's fault that it won all the wars."

Mr. Undertaker,
Please name a war that Serbia won???

WW1 and WW2, is that enough?

"The truth" @@

Serbia won every armed conflict where Western forces did not intervene. NATO is the common denominator to every Serbian defea. That's not even something to be ashamed of because no one Nation could defend itself against NATO, probably not even China.

In 20 years the emerging markets of the world will completely diminish the geo-political significance of the entire Balkans (and a lot of Europe too). Things change, kids.

Neither Germany nor Serbia were responsible for starting WWI, it was the Austro-Hungarian Empire. Austria started WWI and an Austrian started WWII.

still, mr Nikolic is showing the collective paranoia that inhabits the heavenly people, namely, the everybody-has-it-in-for-us complex
(Nikolle, 4 April 2014 14:07)


You know, try as hard as I could, but I just couldn't find enough people here really that worried over the life and legacy of Gavrilo Princip. Maybe it's me, or maybe it's the company I keep, but I really don't understand the need by some to rewrite Princip as some terrorist that triggered a war that Austria desperately wanted; nor do I understand the need to defend the legacy of a man who is not in any danger of being rewritten as anyone other than who he was. If Toma is responding to some fringe group in Bosnia who wants to blame Serbia for something 100 years ago, that's his fault for taking them seriously. As far as I'm concerned, the Great War would have happened whether some idiotic Archduke decided to visit Sarajevo on Vidovdan or not.

Please name a war that Serbia won??? AS FOR COMMITTING MASSACRES ON CIVILIANS, YOU ARE #1.
(the truth, 4 April 2014 16:44)

Wars Serbia won

1. The First Balkan War
2. The Second Balkan War
3. World War I
4. World War II

Committing Massacres on Civilians

1. China
2. Soviet Union
3. Germany
4. Cambodia
5. Iraq
6. United States

If you're going to call yourself "the truth", try using it.

The fuel that was needed to spark off the 1st world war was actually created 75 years prior to the event.
The 19th century was the period of the great Empires of Prussia (germany), France, England, Russia and Austria-Hungary (AH). They were all in constant need of more land to bring them richness and prestige.
This imperialistic behaviour brought conflict and in order to minimise conflict between them they made pacts.
The AH empire had for a long time wanted to annex Serbia to their empire as they had done with Bosnia, Slovenia and Croatia. They finally had an excuse when Gavrilo Princip, affiliated to an underground bunch of Serb nationalists, the 'Black Hand', pulled the trigger of the gun that killed Franz Ferdinand, the nephew of the AH Emperor.
AH then made some impossible demands on Serbia or they would invade. Russia wouldn't have anything of it and warned AH to stay out and this is where those pacts came in.
France had a pact with Russia. Germany had a pact with AH and because they lost a previous war with France and wanted the lands of Russia they declared war on both France and Russia. In order to get to France the Germans had to move through Belgium but this little country had a pact with England who, in order to protect Belgium, declared war on Germany.
It wasn't Serbia that had started the war it was the Germans who were eager to gain more lands in the East and by getting 'one over' on the French.
Shit happens to the vain and greedy!

To all the idiots and their alternative history.

The Kingdom of Serbia did have some early success in WW1 with the Battles of Cer, Drina anf Kolubara all in 1914. But by 1915, the Kingdom of Serbia was defeated, her army was stranded on the Greek Island of Corfu. The Kingdom of Serbia was under Austro-Hungarian military administration from 1915 to 1918. The remaining Serbian forces then had some joint success against Bulgaria with Montenegro, UK, France, Italy, Greece, Russia, Romania ect.

The Kingdom of Serbia was only victorious in WW1 as it happened to be on the winning side. The Kingdom of Sebria in WW1 was militarilly defeated, exhuasted and occupied. FACT!

It isn't anti-Serb (as some have claimed) for me to say this because it is what happened, it is a historical fact. If historical facts offend you, don't blame me, I played no part in them!

(NjegosUK, 7 April 2014 14:18)

Eh?

I think you need to take a chill pill.

You have gone off at a tangent and are ranting on about things which are irrelevant and unrelated to what I've said in my post. This is probably because you're a brainwashed deluded nationalist who is incapable of having an intelligent conversation.

"The Great War is over, but in some heads it id not finished well," Nikolić said and noted...

WW2 is over, but in most Serbian heads it did not finish well and they feel threatened by 'Nazis', 'Ustashe' and whoever, not seeing that their own nationalists are nothing different but the name - same ideas, same actions, as you could see in the ex-YU wars.

P.S: There are even supporters of Nazi ideas in Israel - only with different scapegoats.

@Paul, 4 April 2014 22:22


"Neither Germany nor Serbia were responsible for starting WWI, it was the Austro-Hungarian Empire. Austria started WWI and an Austrian started WWII."

===

I disagree.

There are numerous historical sources, buth documentary evidence and contemporary accounts, that can demonstrate that it was precisely Germany that was pushing for war, and that Austro-Hungary was actually a reluctant party in the war effort. Numerous court officials, particularly the Hungarian prime minister of Austro-Hungary (Istvan Tisza) were on record as urging the aging monarch NOT to declare war on Serbia. Other notable examples abound (Still, it remains the historical fact that the war hysteria was strongest in Vienna). Unfortunately, the biggest and the most influential Austrian warmonger, Conrad Von Hoetzendorf, also happened to be the the commander of the Austrian chiefs of staff, so his bellicose views on Serbia ultimately prevailed.

On the other hand, German joint chiefs of staff was swarming with anti-Serbian venom, with practically every senior army officer pushing for war against Serbs. And not only the army staff: Keiser and his prime minister, Theobald von Bethmann-Hollweg, particularly the former, essentially endorsed and suppored every war move. The German prime minister actually went so far as to falsify the British message to Kaiser in order to prevent peace mediation with Serbia.

Serbs are educated to believe that they were on the winning side in all wars except the Croat and Kosovo ones. As for the 49 rape "sites" alleged by someone, that is a bit of an exaggeration. The so called "Yellow House" were organs were extracted from Serbian victims shows a higher form of war plunder?

"I assure you that without the Serbs, Keiser Wilhelm's descendants would today be making cameo appearances on the Buckingham Palace"

Are you seriously suggesting that the British only staved off Nazi invasion because of the Serbs? dear me, you have an inflated sense of self importance. Serbs, like pretty much the rest of the Balkans, are a truly insignificant bunch in world affairs. After all, if you truly were as important as you pompous post suggests, the world wouldn't give Kosova independence. what people from the Balkans come up with, always makes me chuckle

@Ian

And to you honesty believe we are told the truth here in the UK?! No we are not when i was at school i was told it was Serbia's fault for starting WWI then it turns out the Germans had been planning for years...
Or the British media i mean come on did we ever find weapons of mass destruction on Iraq or the supposed 100,000+ plus dead Albanians in Kosovo no we wasn't we lied to all the time... And yea we did fight till the death but do did the British you forget it Germany government hadn't surrenders the Brits would of never stepped one foot in Germany...
Plus i love the fact how you totally dismiss the fact Serbs were the first resistance movement in occupied Europe we even over threw our leader after they signed a pact with he Nazis..,
I mean Cika Draza was given then Legion of Merit down to the fact of what him and his men did especially saving 500 allied airmen...
Like ive said before i know you have pro Albanian feelings and even Albanians from either on here and or at the car wash...

But i will warn you know and goes for the rest of you Serb haters, you have not and will not ever learn! You can push us the to the ground but you will never brake us, and one day we will come back and take revenge... Just ask the Ottomans, Austro-Hungarians, Italians, Nazis, Communists... I mean thats why some of you on here went crying to America... Croatians, Albanians and Bosnians, remember USA wont be there for ever to protect you...

Serbia with the help of Orthodox Balkan allies actually defeated the Ottoman Empire in the Balkan Wars just before WWI. But don't kid yourself, Serbia did not win in WWII. The Yugoslav communists won and Serbia was defeated. This followed over 50 years of equating the Royalist Chetniks (which your government betrayed) with the Nazi Croatian ustashe as well as forcing Serbs in Krajina to once again be subjected to living under a Croatian republic which exterminated their relatives. Creations of "nation states" in Montenegro, Bosnia, FYR Macedonia and autonomy for "Vojvodina" & Kosovo i Metohija were all examples of communist policy aimed at systematically weakening the Serbian people.

The Allies as a whole brought the German aggression to a halt, both in WWI and WWII. The Serbian nation sacrificed a lot for that to happen. In WWI, Serbia lost over 25% of its entire population. In WWII, Serbs were exterminated in concentration camps throughout Croatia and Jasenovac alone 700, 000 civilians exterminated.

Serbia sacrificed a lot but in the 90s, her traditional allies stood on the side of Germany and betrayed Serbia. Much like they did in WWII when it sided with the Yugoslav communists at Serbia's expense.

@ Ian, UK, 5 April 2014 09:12

Oh you are back Ian, I though you were suppost to be setting up the red carpet for you muslim brothers to impregnate your daughters and mothers?

Serbs were the first allied nations to score victories in the first world war. Serbs singlehandedly defeated the Austro Hungarian and Ottomon Empire army (2 super powers) but was eventually taken over when 5 nations attacked it.

Its funny how the English hate the Serbs, without Serbia you would and I would be having this conversation in Turkish or German, and you would still be discovering the wheel.

Please prepare your daughters and your mothers womb for the jihadist to impregnate them.

Serbia was only "victorious" in WW1 and WW2 because Allied Countries intervened and saved her.

Not true at all, learn the history before you comment and read for example about "Solunski front". And in ww2 it was the partizans that defeated the germans and drove them away with little help from the british.

Serbia won every armed conflict where Western forces did not intervene. NATO is the common denominator to every Serbian defea. That's not even something to be ashamed of because no one Nation could defend itself against NATO, probably not even China.

In 20 years the emerging markets of the world will completely diminish the geo-political significance of the entire Balkans (and a lot of Europe too). Things change, kids.
(Ari Gold, 4 April 2014 20:07)


Ari,

Would you be so kind as to name one war that Serbia has ever one. I do not believe there is any reason to be proud since Serbia has never tasted victory in battle.

"... Just ask the Ottomans, Austro-Hungarians..."
oh dear, for starters, there's no Ottomans left these days. There is Turkey of course, but the Turkish Republic is a different entity from the Ottoman Empire. Same for Austro-Hungarians. However, you have an odd notion of victory. Serbia, or rather, the territory of Serbia, was under direct Ottoman rule for nigh on 500 years. Serbs, like others, only got independence from the Ottomans after the Empire began to weaken and even then, with a great deal of help from Russia. Serbs by themselves, would not have beaten the Ottomans and you'd be deluded to think that they would have done. Serbia, capitulated very soon after Austria-Hungary launched war on it. Its a fact. It was only victorious, because it fought on the side of the allies. Serbs by themselves, would NEVER have defeated the Austro-Hungarians. the reason for that is really simple, Serbia was never as strong as said Empire. but if it cheers you up to believe that the heavenly people are these brave folk standing up to tyrants, do believe it. you're 100% wrong, but that's another thing

as for this "Sure, honey. And Holocaust didn't exist, right?"...have never denied the Halocaust and am never going to. unlike certain groups who deny the genocide of Srebrenica and all
(Nikolle, 8 April 2014 10:17)
That’s why I have no time for people like you and thus treat you accordingly. Rhwanda was genocide but ask Robert Bear, former CIA operative in the Balkans, about Srebrenica being genocide. Now what was it he said? Ahh yes, ’Srebrenica was a product of an agreement between the US government and Bosnian politicians“.....“ Srebrenica is an exagerated story“.

"Serbia won every armed conflict where Western forces did not intervene."
(Ari Gold, 4 April 2014 20:07)

Like Germany won all wars where allied forces didn't intervene :LOL

Serbia was only "victorious" in WW1 and WW2 because Allied Countries intervened and saved her.

It wasn't Serbia who was "victorious", Serbia relied on other countries to liberate her after she was militarilly defeated and exhuasted.
(Ian, UK, 5 April 2014 09:12)

You need to check your history again Ian. The Austro-Hungarian army was defeated by Serbia alone in the battle of Kolubara in 1914 which Serbia liberated Belgrade after it had been briefly occupied. Of course, such a battle took its toll and Serbia was occupied eventually, but it was liberated by its own troops with Greek and French support in 1918.

You might find that Serbia or rather Yugoslavia was victorious in 1945. The country was liberated by its own troops without any significant allied help - except some from the USSR. The only country (apart from Italy and Greece to some extent) who succeeded in driving out the axis armies without being liberated by allied forces.

Ian your comment as usual is "Top of the Pops" in terms of it's complete revision of historical fact. Nice try you may convince yourself but no real historian's going to buy into that rubbish. Find a new home we don't want you here.

Serbia was only "victorious" in WW1 and WW2 because Allied Countries intervened and saved her.

It wasn't Serbia who was "victorious", Serbia relied on other countries to liberate her after she was militarilly defeated and exhuasted.
(Ian, UK, 5 April 2014 09:12)

Ian i ll give you a history lesson shall i first we was the first nation to win a battle on the allies side of world war one, secondly by time the Russians had turned up Yugoslav Partisan had more or less sent the Nazi scum back and another thing Serbian army did not actively take part in the Bosnia wars as it is well documented the Yugoslav wars was civil one not a nation vs another

I see the circus is back and its dumbest clowns back on here Ian aka Coco the clown

@Ian, UK, 5 April 2014 09:12

Ian, my friend, you OBVIOUSLY don't have a faintest idea what you are talking about.

While a case can be made that Russians did help the Serbs in the WW2 (surely, the 100,000 Russians who died in Serbia fighting the nazis did MUCH more for us that the ZERO Brits who did the same) there is absolutely NO DOUBT that we, the Serbs won the WW1 pretty much all by ourselves and WITHOUT SIGNIFICANT TECHNICAL, FINANCIAL AND LOGISTICAL assistance from the Allies. The sole British contribution to our victory was bombing of Belgrade in 1944.

The biggest WW1 help we received was from the Greeks (who lent us their land and their hearts and joined our military operations in Macedonia) and from the French, who fought alongside Serbs against the Austrians and Bulgarians. But even the most hostile, most blatantly biased, anti-Serbian historian can't deny that 95% of the heavy lifting on the Salonika front - the breaching of which essentially broke the back of the Central Powers, without which the Brave British could EASILY have lost the war - was done by the Serbs and Serbs alone. The decisive 1918 battles against Bulgaria were 100% Serbian, and close to 90% of critical fighting with the Austrians was done by Serbs. I assure you that without the Serbs, Keiser Wilhelm's descendants would today be making cameo appearances on the Buckingham Palace's balcony and you guys would be speaking English (or Gerglish) with a thick Prussian accent.

Ari,

Would you be so kind as to name one war that Serbia has ever one. I do not believe there is any reason to be proud since Serbia has never tasted victory in battle.
(The Count of Kosova, 5 April 2014 21:15

1. First Balcan war.
2. Second Balcan war.
3. WW1 (battle of Cer, battle of Kolubara)
4. Ww2 (Drove out the axis with help from the Russians).

(Nikolle, 7 April 2014 11:04)

"Are you seriously suggesting that the British only staved off Nazi invasion because of the Serbs? "

No, Nikolie, you have your pots and pans mixed up a little. I was referring to the WW1, not WW2.

Yes, I am SAYING - not merely suggesting, I am openly saying - that without little Serbia, the British Empire would not exist, or would exist only as a petty subsidiary, a lesser frnge province of the Prussian Empire.

On the VERY LAST DAY of the war - JUST HOURS BEFORE ARMISTICE WAS SIGNED - General Pershing lost (needlessly) about 2,000 young American lives trying to defeat the Germans. On the VERY LAST DAY of the war, the Germans were STILL grinding the combined American-British force TO A MASHED POTATO. Seriously!

http://www.historynet.com/world-war-i-wasted-lives-on-armistice-day.htm

While this British-American war DEBACLE was going on. the victorious Serbian army advancing from the south-east (aided by Italians advancing from the south some 1200 miles away) smashed Bulgaria all by itself, then continued to Hungary (in less than a month) and ended up at the gates of Vienna, pretty much within a month (October 15 - NOvember 18. 1918).

Yes, Nikolie, without those evil Serbs, the proud Brits would today be Prussian subjects, carrying Prussian passports and saluting the black and white flag of the Prussian empire. In hindsight, perhaps, the world would have been a better place this way.

We all do expect and know that none of those W.nations or USA will show 'us' any support, when Serbia tries to take revenge. Only, you need to know a few things before you try it. Those nations that separated from FY are not like what they were in 1991. And, those nations are no longer led by weak, "stylishly" dressed and inarticulate leaders. Also, Those nations have armies and arsenals to match and even leave Serb army in the dust. Not to mention the national will and trained soldiers to take on any threat from Serbia again. If you think the people your Serbian war machine decimated and laid waste have no stomach to fight Serbia again, think again. This time, we pray the western powers and your Russian/Slav brethren, stay out of your "revenge" actions and our way, while we pre-empt any attempt from your people to strike at "us".
You need to remember that a sizable percentage of your population are not ethnic Serbs. And, if you think that they will stay neutral, think again. So, careful what you threaten, it could come true and results may turn out to different and put an end to Serb attempts at threats its neighbors for good.
Sorry but last time i checked Serbian army never stepped one foot in Croatia or Bosnia hence the term civil war! Kosovo they did as it is a part of Serbia, and if memory serves me right NATO tried in 1999 to destroy Serbia but failed miserably hence bombing of civilians and not just Serbs but Albanians too in Kosovo Humanitarian action for you!

(Nikolle, 9 April 2014 10:53)

From what I recall Cambridge and Oxford are prestigious Universities and UCL does not fall in that category. But on the subject of genocide does UCL teach its students about the gencoide its military committed on South Africans during the Boer War – you are aware that the Brits were the first to run concentration camps where thousands perished during? Probably not.
I have several friends who are academics and no Austrlaian Universities teach fairy tales of that nature. Psst... neither does Oxford or Cambridge.
Let me repeat it for you – Robert Baer is an American CIA operative. He speaks several languages including Arabic and Farsi. He was interviewed on the wars in Yugoslavia and on the subject Srebrenica. Being a CIA man he was on your side not ours. He is the one who has made these statements not me.

If you can call the decimation of your population victory, be my guest. What was the number of Serrbian casualties in the end? We are told half of the men, one third of the women dead? I wonder what those victims would have thought of Gavrilo Princip and the Black Hand. Today Serbia would have been a nation of 15 million people. It could have had Bosnia and Krajina and maybe even Kosovo just with the numbers, peacefully.

Someone says WWI would have happened anyway. Maybe yes, maybe no, and if yes why do you want to be the one state where the first blow, the most hardest one, will be delivered? Why not let Germany and France start it, or Germany and Russia, or AH and Italy? No matter how one looks at it, it was just stupid.

Actually Serbia was one of the ONLY countries in WW1 & WW2 to virtually liberate it's own territories by itself! We also have the honor of being the first country to land the first Allied victory in WW1. Google "Battle of Cer". The Serbian army defeated an army with 10x the resources of its own. (according to US president Truman). They actually raised the Serbian flag over the WhiteHouse that day.

But let's not forget WWII... You cannot erase history my friend. You wish you could, but it cannot and will not be done.

Hitlers No. 1 Headache

http://www.babamim.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/images/DSCN0598.15675914_std.JPG

http://www.babamim.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/images/DSCN0597.15675450_std.JPG

And...

TIME Magazine had Chica Draza Mihailovich on the cover of their magazine and people around the world hailed the leader and his heroic resistance fighters in 1941, the FIRST to stand up to Hitler's Germany.

http://www.babamim.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/images/180px-MIHAILOVIC.15675144_std.jpg

I am VERY proud of my Grandfather who served in BOTH world wars.

Too bad some of you can't say the same about yours.

No i haven't gone of tangent im giving you a true history lesson, if i am nationalist to love my country, people, heritage and culture then i am guilty if being a nationalist and i am also guilty of been proud of this too!!!
Id rather be deemed that then some left with liberal from Western Europe who lives in Oxenphone who has probably never been to Serbia or maybe not even the Balkans! Thinking he can come on here preach about Serbia and demonize Serbs and lecture us on morals when they west have not a leg to stand on compared to morals! And like ive said before i know you have Albanian friends or one touched you up or something like that or maybe you watched Taken and felt sorry for them who knows... But who the hell are you to lecture Serbs on there history and culture and way of life... You are no one that who is who you are a nobody who thinks he has the right to lecture and tell people the absolute garbage you come out and distorted views i tell you why Serbs are demonized and hate its down to the fact we haven't changed or been brought under the rule of others look at our true history you will see even when occupied we haven't changed or succumbed to change!

Its clear by all on here you anti Serbian, i know plenty of British people who look at the bigger picture and support and love Serbia! But you Ian believe what the BBC and other media and actually think your intelligent and a position to lecture when really you know nothing COCO THE CLOWN!

@Ian, UK, 7 April 2014 12:35

"To all the idiots and their alternative history"

==

Ian:

Why are you even bothering talking to the little Serbian "idiots" who refuse to toe your revisionist Anglos-Saxon history line and who happen to know their own history better than you do?

Here is some information for you:

1. "Occupied" and "defeated" are not the same. Just ask Russians, Chinese or Afghans.

2. Serbian army was not "stranded" in Corfu. It quickly regrouped and refreshed and continued it's victiorious march to Belgrade, and beyond.

3. The what you call "Serbian...joint success with Montenegro, UK, France, Italy, Greece, Russia, Romania ect." (sic) is laughable. Russia and Romania were COMPLETELY ABSENT from the Salonika theater of operations, Italian and British presence was, at best, ephemeral and perfunctory. Only the Greeks and the French helped us, and the Serbs comprised close to 90% of the battle force in the critical days of the war.

3. Serbia did not only have "some early success" . Those were three resonding, overwhelming, heroic victories against much, much more powerful enemies, which gave the allies their FIRST vicory in the war. Serbs lost only one battle: the Mackensen offensive of 1916:

4. This is what our enemy said:

http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=F2071FF73F5E1A738DDDAE0994DB405B888DF1D3

5. Serbs lost 1/3 of it's population in WW1. Please don't tell me that it was the Brits who liberated us.

@Nikolle, 7 April 2014 16:00

"oh dear, for starters, there's no Ottomans left these days. . There is Turkey of course, but the Turkish Republic is a different entity from the Ottoman Empire. "

- Did you try explaining this to Tayyip Recep Erdogan? I think he would beg to differ.

"Same for Austro-Hungarians."

- True. Empires go, but their agendas and programs remain. Check under 'Holy Roman Empire'

"However, you have an odd notion of victory"

- Interesting that the British still cling on to their "odd notion" of victories and still celebrate them.


"Serbs, like others (?), only got independence from the Ottomans after the Empire began to weaken and even then, with a great deal of help from Russia."

- Complete hogwash. Russia was completely ABSENT from the Serbian rebellion: they were too busy doing other things, such as chasing Napoleon.


"Serbs by themselves, would not have beaten the Ottomans and you'd be deluded to think that they would have done."

How is the weather on your galaxy? Can you name me ONE foreign army that helped Serbia win independence in 1878? Only one!


"Serbia, capitulated very soon after Austria-Hungary launched war on it."

Very soon? After 18 months of fighting, three major victories and after evicting the enemy from our Land? What's in your water?


"Its a fact. It was only victorious, because it fought on the side of the allies."

Sure, honey. And Holocaust didn't exist, right? [hint: sarcasm]

Ian, Serbia was an integral part of the Allied Powers, it was the very reason the Allies joined forces in the first place. Serbia fought two Balkan wars and 2 years after that, Serbia served as a founding member of the Allies. It was small in population obviously and military strength, but 25% of its population perished just in WWI.

The truth is, all of Europe would not have defeated the axis powers without the United States. That's especially true in WWII, the UK was supposed to be the country to lead the Allies against Nazi Germany, but they dropped the ball.

"Srebrenica is an exagerated story“." much like Serb suffering in Croatia in the 90's eh sj? p.s. Universities around the world today, including in your own beloved Australia learn about Srebrenica. but don't worry, we have you to tell us that its all lies

(Ari Gold, 8 April 2014 11:09)

What is wrong with you? Military alliances/ pacts were formed well before the Balkan Wars and before Austria-Hungary declared war on Serbia.

Europe would have been defeated in WW2 without the USSR, not the USA.

WW2 could have been won without the US. The US made WW2 harder for the allies. US banks kept on giving loans to Nazi Germany all the way until 1945 because business is business to bankers. The US f**ked over the UK in WW2. The US gave the UK loans with ridiculously high interest rates, which we only finished off paying back in 2008. With the loans the US gave us, we were conditionally forced to use our loans to buy US rifles and ships from WW1 for a really expensive price. They were so rusty and old, we couldn't use them. The US economically crippled the UK in WW2. We would have been better off if they had kept out of WW2 and not funded the Nazis with loans. The US was the only country to profit from WW2! The only good the US did in WW2 was against Japan. The USSR pretty much single handedly defeated Nazi Germany.

The UK won the Battle of Britain on it's own which prevented a Nazi invasion. Nazi Germany would have eventually tried another invasion of Britain, but they shot themselves in the foot by invading the Soviet Union and they were too busy there after. The only help we had here were a few free Polish and Czech Military Pilots, oh and we had Ben Affleck too if you believe US BS Hollywood Propaganda!

(Nikolle, 8 April 2014 15:16)

Hey Robert Baer was one of your allies not the Serbs – remember CIA operative????, but as I said before Rwanda was genocide and if that is what happened in Srebrenica then so be it, but funny how the Serbs let all the women and children go – wouldn’t genocide mean they would have been liquidated???
As Baer also said, the bodies buried in Porocari has no Muslims there just to make up the numbers. These are NOT MY WORDS but HIS.
Let me assure you that real Universities don’t fall for that clap trap. May be Pristina Centre for Remedial Learning might have that as its course.
You may have noticed that in the US more and more academics on international law are coming out and declaring that the bombing of Serbia and annexation of Kosovo was against international law – interesting. But in the next few years that situation will be remedied.

".. Serbian army never stepped one foot in Croatia or Bosnia hence the term civil war! Kosovo they did as it is a part of Serbia, and if memory serves me right NATO tried in 1999 to destroy Serbia but failed miserably hence bombing of civilians and not just Serbs but Albanians too in Kosovo Humanitarian action for you!
(NjegosUK"

Your semantics, like Slobo's, did 'so much' to gain favor with the west. Serb semantics even failed to get Greece to nix Nato's bombing campaign over Serbia. Even Russia failed to save your people from Nato bombs. Your semantics won't work, period, except with your people who long to believe fantazmagoric lies again, just to feel ok being Serbian.

Again, we read what your leaders say in the press and we know this latest outgoing leader gushes out the same old crud just to bamboozle his own Serbian public with the upcoming finality on the Serbian recognition of the Kosova Republic and entrance into the EU. Your new leader at least is sticking to something your people can actually bank on, policy on improving the Serb economy, after they sign the final Brussels treaty with Kosova, and are finally made into the EU 'club'.

Threats of revenge will only make your people sadly repeat this history of loss, more bamboozle b.s. by your politicians, and again a forced peace with your adversary and forced to give up your fantasy 'cradle'.

We all know your politicians would never give up land/power so easily, 'cept 1 great Djingic may've done.

Oh dear, rest assured sj, that on my visit to London, at UCL no less (one of the more prestigious Universities in all of the World, never mind UK) students are taught about the genocide of Srebrenica. i'm pretty certain that Universities in Australia do the same. as for conspiracy theories, have read them all and i dismiss them for what they are, conspiracies. kinda like crackpots who believe that the US gov. had a direct involvement in 9/11

no no sj, i know that i am talking to someone who takes conspiracies for truths, so there's no convincing you. let me repeat it for you, The UN Hague Tribunal is an international court. its not a NATO one. its one that was approved by Russia too. so go argue with them. oh and by the way, perhaps you want to visit Oxford & Cambridge Universities and see what they teach regarding the wars of former Yugoslavia. Regarding the Boer war, I am not aware that British Universities don't teach their students about the horrific treatment inflicted upon the Boers by the British army.
as for Robert Baer speaking Arabic and Farsi, do you think him being multilingual proves he's right? why on earth did you bring that to the equation? Ted Gunderson was also an FBI agent and says 9/11 was an inside job. conspiracies are just that sj, conspiracies

To quote a favourite song: "Words get written, words get twisted, old meanings move in the drift of time".
And so it is with those who want to make up their own version of historical events to suit their agenda. The truth is that there were so many agenda's behind the scenes, that we probably will never have the truth!
But to suggest Serbia somehow conned the world into WW1 is stupidly naive and gives way too much credit to a bunch of amatuer would-be assasins.
Serbia had just come off victories in the Balkan Wars which was embarrasing for the Austrians in particular.
Does anybody beleieve that such an amatuerish effort to assasinate FF would come from a state that had just won 2 wars in a row??? Seriously people, get a grip.

That the British owe their non-invasion by Germany in WW1to the Serbs i have not hear a credible or serious historian make and I doubt I will ever hear such a thing. Since we're in the business of taking credit for things that we cant possibly claim credit for, let us nor forget the poetry that came out in the trenches, that too saved Briton from Germany. Tell me, what else do the Brits owe the heavenly people?

".. and one day we will come back and take revenge... Just ask the Ottomans, Austro-Hungarians, Italians, Nazis, Communists... I mean thats why some of you on here went crying to America... Croatians, Albanians and Bosnians, remember USA wont be there for ever to protect you..."
(NjegosUK


We all do expect and know that none of those W.nations or USA will show 'us' any support, when Serbia tries to take revenge. Only, you need to know a few things before you try it. Those nations that separated from FY are not like what they were in 1991. And, those nations are no longer led by weak, "stylishly" dressed and inarticulate leaders. Also, Those nations have armies and arsenals to match and even leave Serb army in the dust. Not to mention the national will and trained soldiers to take on any threat from Serbia again. If you think the people your Serbian war machine decimated and laid waste have no stomach to fight Serbia again, think again. This time, we pray the western powers and your Russian/Slav brethren, stay out of your "revenge" actions and our way, while we pre-empt any attempt from your people to strike at "us".
You need to remember that a sizable percentage of your population are not ethnic Serbs. And, if you think that they will stay neutral, think again. So, careful what you threaten, it could come true and results may turn out to different and put an end to Serb attempts at threats its neighbors for good.

(DEDA CVETKO, 7 April 2014 17:36)

I'm talking about the Serbian and Balkans campaign as a whole, not just the Salonika front.

Also, the Russians weren't COMPLETELY ABSENT from the Salonika front. Learn some history and read up on General Mikhail Diterikhs.

Also, I never said that Britain liberated Serbia.

Yes, I am SAYING - not merely suggesting, I am openly saying - that without little Serbia, the British Empire would not exist, or would exist only as a petty subsidiary, a lesser frnge province of the Prussian Empire.
(DEDA CVETKO, 7 April 2014 18:28)

Nice, let me guess what you next statement is going to be... Perhaps, that without little Albania, the Soviet Union would not exist and would have been defeated by the Nazis. People in the Balkans have some really wild fantasies:)

Majority of germans have overcome chauvinism and nationalism. More than any other nation in the world actually. Compared to France, UK, USA who are all of them mentally still in the 19th century.
For the case of Serbia many serbs partly think we are still after them which is in my perception not the case. So if you want to judge germany by its people and not by merkel and some nato generals there should be no reason not to built a future based on peace and prosperity.

"Did you try explaining this to Tayyip Recep Erdogan?"

i have never met him and as such, have no opportunity to pass this on. still, my point remains, the Turkish Republic and the Ottoman Empire are different entities. Much like Italy and Rome.

" Interesting that the British still cling on to their "odd notion" of victories and still celebrate them"
no idea what you're on about here. historical fact is this, what is today's Serbia was under direct Ottoman rule for near on 500 years. if we give 20 years for one generation, that leaves 25 generations of Serbs who did not 'beat' the Ottomans. if I take your logic, the Albanians beat the Ottomans too.
"Can you name me ONE foreign army that helped Serbia win independence in 1878? Only one!"
oh dear me, foreign help doesn't take the form of military intervention only. the Ottomans were already weakened by wars against Russia, culminating in the treaty of San Stefano. Russia, having assigned itself protector of all Orthodox people, guaranteed Serbia's breakaway from the Ottomans, much like Austria-Hungary & Italy are to be thanked for Albania's independence in 1912. don't worry, I know people in the Balkans have myths that they take for truths, but we can emancipate ourselves from all that.

as for this "Sure, honey. And Holocaust didn't exist, right?"...have never denied the Halocaust and am never going to. unlike certain groups who deny the genocide of Srebrenica and all

(Ian, UK, 8 April 2014 16:36)

There were alliances, but it was the Entente Powers that gave birth to the "Allies". Serbia was a part of that. The Allied did not "save" Serbia, the Allies came to fight for one of their own. And Serbia in return lost a quarter of its entire population for that struggle.

LOL Battle of Britain. Good job, you managed to save your island from being invaded. And that is of course the only reason why, because its an island. If it wasn't for the U.S. intervening, you would be speaking German now. The USSR gave a lot of lives too. Britain and France dropped the ball.

Hey Robert Baer was one of your allies not the Serbs – remember CIA operative????, but as I said before Rwanda was genocide and if that is what happened in Srebrenica then so be it, but funny how the Serbs let all the women and children go – wouldn’t genocide mean they would have been liquidated???
(sj, 9 April 2014 00:18)

Unfortunately those stupid lawyers at the UN did not define genocide as something that happens only when women and children are killed.
----------

You may have noticed that in the US more and more academics on international law are coming out and declaring that the bombing of Serbia and annexation of Kosovo was against international law – interesting. But in the next few years that situation will be remedied.
(sj, 9 April 2014 00:18)

Oh, great. I'm relieved now that in the next few years that situation will be remedied. I would have wished for that to happen in the next few months, but I guess I have to be patient like the Serbs.

Btw... who did annex Kosovo against international law? Russia?

Let me repeat it for you – Robert Baer is an American CIA operative.
(sj, 9 April 2014 12:11)

Oh, great... thanks for clarifying. According to the most patriotic of Serbs, he cannot be trusted.

The UN Hague Tribunal is an international court. its not a NATO one. its one that was approved by Russia too. so go argue with them.
(Nikolle, 9 April 2014 12:30)

That's not fully correct because it understates Russia's role. That Court was not just approved by Russia... It was PROPOSED by Russia. Give to Caesar what is Caesar's...

@Ian, UK, 8 April 2014 16:53


"...Also, the Russians weren't COMPLETELY ABSENT from the Salonika front. Learn some history and read up on General Mikhail Diterikhs.

Also, I never said that Britain liberated Serbia.

==

Firstly, Diterikhs had NO INVOLVEMENT WHATSOEVER in the final operations at the Salonika front. None. Zero. Nada. He was recalled to Russia a year earlier in order to become Russian minister of war (which he declined) and later became involved in Russian civil war. By 1918, he was too busy chasing Bolsheviks some 3,000 miles away.

Secondly, at the peak of the Russian presence in Macedonia, the Russian forces totaled two incomplete brigades (some 6,000 soldiers AT MOST). By the time Salonika front was breached, most, if not all of these units had already withdrawn to Russia in order to fight Trotsky. There is no reliable information about how many Russians remained in Macedonia after Diterikhs left, but it could not possibly have been more than 2,000 -- a presence I did not call ephemeral and symbolic for nothing.

Thirdly: there is a good reason why there were so few Russians left. The British General Staff feared the Russian presence in Serbia and intervened on time to "gently" push them out. Obviously, the City's Rotschilds were too busy supporting Trotsky to allow the Russo-Serbian kinship to jeopardize their Russian "investment".

Finally: no, you did not say that the Brits liberated Serbia. You only ever so subtly so insinuated.

(icj1, 8 April 2014 19:46)
Nice, let me guess what you next statement is going to be... Perhaps, that without little Albania, the Soviet Union would not exist (...)

-

OK...obviously you and your revisionist friends suffer from acute loss of historical memory. Allow me to rephtase what I'd said earlier, perhaps the gravity of the dreadful truth will set in this time:

ON THE VERY LAST DAY OF WAR - JUST HOURS BEFORE THE ARMISTICE WAS SIGNED - THE COMBINED ANGLO-SAXON FORCES (BRITS PLUS YANKS) LOST TWO THOUSAND (2,000) YOUNG MEN TO THE GERMANS.

With only MINUTES of the war left, the Germans were STILL beating the blood pudding out of the American forces and draining the 5:00 o' clock tea out of the British. The "defeated" German army was actually on the verge of a VERY major and VERY critical victory in the war when the Armistice was signed.

Guess why the Germans signed? The Serbs DESTROYED their ONLY ally and were heading north in a hurry. And no, they were NOT smiling.

Even under the best of circumstances, it would have been IMPOSSIBLE for the British - EVEN with the help from Colonel House - to defeat the Keiser's Army. But those were not the "best" of times. Au contraire. my dear Watson!

Imagine what would have happened if the Serbs were defeated instead of marching victoriously 1,500 miles north: Austria would not have fallen, Germans would have crossed LaManche, and Kate Middletown would be known as Katarina Von Mittelburg.

No need to thank me.