More bilingual signs damaged in Croatian town

Just another day in the People's Banana Republic of Ustashistan.

We don't like the way they talk, look or the way they dress. For last time please get the hell out of Croatia for the she of humanity.
(Bam Bam, 25 March 2014 12:58)

For the last time, YOU live in America. What the Hell right have you to dictate who lives in a country YOU don't live in? What the Hell do YOU know about Croatia other than what you read on extremist message boards? It's bad enough Croatia's flooded with idiots like you, but it's even more pathetic to know there's some loser living in America who thinks he's a Croatian patriot.

Seriously B92, why do you post Bam Bam's crap?

"Why are Serbs even living in Croatia. Seriously is Serbia that bad that you would rather live under the 'U' then in Belgrade. Croats will never give up on cyrillic signage. It's like having German signage in downtown Jerusalem-" Bam Bam

Bam Bam,

you are on the wrong side of history, you croatians not Serbs that built concentration camps like the Germans. The cyrillic signage in croatia is a sign of liberation from the Nazi Croat's. Also, if Croatia was so great why do you not live there? Serbs have lived in these parts of croatia for centuries, that land was stolen from Serbia. You need to do some research using legitimate sources instead some fascist propaganda crap.

Damn Ustasa

This really isn't news anymore. News would be a bi-lingual sign that lasts more than a month without being vandalized by Lijepa Nasa's Army of Homeless Veterans.

Comments which include insults, indecencies, racial or ethnic hate messages and intolerance of any kind will not be published.

What happened to your rule b92?

Amazing how Croatians are brought up with so much hatred against the very people from whom they descended. The Croatian FA Institute in Zagreb has proven this scientifically, acknowledging that Serbs are the older race so they can only be descendents. Check -> http://beforeitsnews.com/opinion-conservative/2013/07/zagreb-in-a-panic-scientifically-proven-that-croats-are-descendants-of-serbs-2687972.html

Why are Serbs even living in Croatia. Seriously is Serbia that bad that you would rather live under the 'U' then in Belgrade. Croats will never give up on cyrillic signage. It's like having German signage in downtown Jerusalem- it would never happen or be accepted, so why would this be any different. Nobody wants Serbs in Croatia, they are a hated race. We don't like the way they talk, look or the way they dress. For last time please get the hell out of Croatia for the she of humanity.

Don't these Chetnik idiots have a brain?
Serb Chetniks pour in from Serbia, they pound us with artillery, drop bombs on us from their aircraft, kill our fellow Croats at every chance they get, be they young or old, they lay waste to our cities, and kill and forcefully evict the inhabitants (Vukovar) and then, they expect us to acknowledge their barbaric Cyrillic symbols? Go back to Serbia, or even better yet leave Europe completely. Disgusting monsters.

B92

If you are going to publish racist mush like that written by Bam Bam, then it has to be answered - possibly in kind.

Bam Bam sounds like the kind of person who was writing graffiti on Croatian walls about 'Serbs hanging from the trees' in the period before the troubles of the 90s started.

Croatia brought shame on itself because of Jasenovac and Bam Bam brings shame on them again.

Still - while there is some racist mud-slinging, perhaps we can all have a go!!!!

"Croats have the reputation of being too pompous for their own good
- they like to think they are somehow of a higher order.

The fact is that they are just Slavs with an overly heightened self view."

Croatia once again displaying those German 'EU values'. Nothing ever changes, history just repeats itself.

Comments which include insults, indecencies, racial or ethnic hate messages and intolerance of any kind will not be published.

What happened to your rule b92?
(thanasis, 25 March 2014 17:06)

100% agree. B92, please try to uphold the rules of commenting that people apparently do not read before they post hate messages. I know this may cut 50% of the comments out, but I'd rather have a civilized area of communication that have to deal with morons like the two posters below.

@ Dalmatian-Knight , 25 March 2014 16:34 )

We too have Dalmatian Knights right here in Texas. One of my horse groomers is one. And my favorite pipe cleaner is another one.

FOR THOSE WHO DIDNT KNOW: Bam Bam is albanian. One day he pretends to be alb, the next ctoatian sometimes even bosnian. it all depends on the article. He also goes by the name of Rocky and he is most likely an unemployed american/alb spending his days in an albanian club drinking cheap tea and dreaming about albanian greatness.

Childish behaviour from a bunch of arrogant spolit brats. Grow up you imbeciles!!

"FOR THOSE WHO DIDNT KNOW: Bam Bam is albanian"

Bam Bam is a pathetic person consumed with anger and hate who uses words that reflect sociopathic tendencies.

@ robert1899 - you said "Serbs have lived in these parts of croatia for centuries, that land was stolen from Serbia. You need to do some research using legitimate sources instead some fascist propaganda crap."

I think you have look at recent history...according to any map those parts are Croatia and we do not live in the past. if we base things on how you look at it then we'd be redefining the maps across the globe!

I'm from Knin, our home for centuries until we were ethnically cleansed out. Not the first time. My family was murdered in WW2 and again in 1995. Croatians only identify with hate and pride, Serbs and Croats are Christians who have forgotten who Christ is. I am teaching my children to do better than this.

Bam Bam sounds like the kind of person who was writing graffiti on Croatian walls about 'Serbs hanging from the trees' in the period before the troubles of the 90s started.
(Bob, 25 March 2014 20:13)

Someone like Bam Bam was probably running around in diapers in the 1990s at his grannie's house outside Chicago, Sydney, or Toronto. The only graffiti he could ever write was the type of fascist wannabe BS he trolls with here. If he ever visited Croatia, his attempt at speaking the language would be met with laughter and ridicule from actual Croats amused he's trying to identify as one of them with the broken village-dialect he picked up from one of his grandparents. His need to sound like the biggest baddest Croat on the internet shows he's desperate for attention. The other keyboard Croats are no better.

"...we liberated ourselves with no ones help."

All of your comments are ridiculous, but this one takes the cake. Its one thing to be proud, but try to be at least a little realistic. Without the help of NATO and the west, Croatia would never have survived.
(njegos, 26 March 2014 15:52)


so then why are you blaming Croatia for "Oluja" if it wasn't them liberating themselves...why don't you bring NATO to the UN for war crimes if this is what apparently happened? Its simple njegos, you want to dance to one tune today and then another tomorrow...

strategically, the US helped Croatia in the Krajina area...there were no American soldiers there so I wonder what you consider help....advising? are you saying someone is guilty of advising Croatia on how to gain their territory back?

Daniel- tell me, when did a single Croat ever go fight in Serbia?

you said "Serbs have lived in Krajina for more than 500 yrs" - any Mexican, Brit, Jew, Serb or any other group of people that live in a country for over 100 years should eventually reside to being part of that Nation and not consider themselves anything else other than the Nation they live in...and thats the problem with this entire situation...you want Serbs to have lived in Krajina to be considered "Krajina Serbs"...different from what any other Croatian citizen with DIFFERENT loyalties....

would you accept Kosovars in Serbia that have lived there for 500 years to be loyal to Kosovo or to Serbia?

WW11 is over, Croats did some wrong just as many Nations did...accept it and move on, Croatia has accepted their wrongdoings and admitted...move on!

Clearly Zdravko, Lenard, and Bam Bam have the lowest IQ in Europe. Zdravko can't even put a sentence together without major mistakes. Ever heard of periods, commas, paragraphs...etc? If you'e going to respond in the English language, then learn it dumba$$. Anyone who is proud of their Ustasha background is obviously repulsive, which includes a good portion of Croats - they have a major inferiority complex with Serbia as is on display here.
Hey Zdravko, what have you guys ever won in Basketball and Volleyball? Nothing. In water polo we spank you guys all the time, the head to head record is in Serbia's favour and we've won everything. The only sport you have a slight advantage is soccer, but the Serbian youth team just won the European Cup (which you never ever did), so the future looks bright and we'll soon surpass you there too :).
Watch and enjoy, it never gets old :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKsQuzL5aHs
Cheers!!

Zdravko - Divac took the flag from a Croatian fanatic because the fan was antagonizing Divac by holding the flag up in front of him and making anti-Serb comments after the Yugoslav team had won the world championship. Should Divac have ignored the idiot, probably. Dino Radja, a Croat teammate of Divac said himself that the story was blown out of proportion. But nutcases like you want to make a big deal of it.

"I am a proud Croat I'm proud of our beautiful beaches out beautiful music OUR NATIONAL ANTHEM our tourism our fishing industry and more than anything proud of being a descendent of the USTASHA too bad they didn't get a hold of you."

Are you also proud of your corruption,astronomical unemployment and national debt? All this after the west has poured billions into your country. And the Ustasha didn't get me, but you surely can try any time you feel up to it.

"You have 2 individuals to be proud of djokovic and Tesla woooooow!"

Here are just a few more: Michael Pupin, Pulitzer Prize Winner, Carl Malden, Actor, Lolita Davidavich, Actress, Anna Ivanovich & Jelana Jankovic, Tennis, Pete Maravich, NBA Hall of Fame, Helen Delich & George Voinovich, Politics, Willian Jovanovich, Publishing, Jeff Samardzia, Baseball, and I could go on and on. Oh, I almost forgot the most famous Serb of all: Draza Mihailovich, awarded the Legion of Merit by President Truman for saving more than 500 downed US airmen. Chew on that Zdravko!

Canadian Croatian, you are wrong. In Serbia, arrests have been made by the Serbian government for crimes committed in Kosovo, Bosna, and Croatia. Videos were released and broadcast on TV of crimes committed by Serbs in the Balkan conflicts. Serbia extradited all of those wanted by the Hague. Croatia has not admitted to ONE single thing...not ONE. They still have not admitted their crimes from WW2 against Serbs, or their crimes during the Balkan conflicts against not only Serbs, but Bosnian Muslims as well. They celebrate the release of their 2 generals and operation storm for the atrocities committed on Serbs. Serbs do not celebrate Arkan, Milosevic, Mladic, Karadzic, etc.

Croatia needs to stop with this idiotic campaign of smashing cyrillic signs. Croatia wanted to join the EU. That was Croatia's decision. The standards of the EU do not allow for this kind of idiotic behavior. It's fascist behavior, and for elected official of an EU member to talk down a certain ethnic group is mind boggling. If Croatia is to be a democratic state where everyone has equal rights, then Croatia must use overwhelming force to defend those rights. That does not mean that Serbs there can disregard the laws and do what they want, they must respect the laws like we do in the US. Those that don't can be dealt with in legal ways. This Nazi style, fascist way that Croatia is using to deal with it is a complete disgrace.

Bob how dare you insult us Croatians we are not Slavs.
(Zdravko, 26 March 2014 03:36)

And yet you talk like Slavs, dress like Slavs, give yourself Slavic names, eat Slavic food, and live among other Slavic peoples.

So you're either in grotesque denial of the truth, or Croats are the absolute worst people people at preserving their racial purity since you therefore adopted the customs and mentality of Serbs. Bravo. You just made Croats out to be even more pathetic and inferior.

From Zdravko: "... how dare you insult us Croatians we are not Slavs. Look at the facial features we look nothing like those dirty hairy bushy eyebrowed murderers."

Sounds like you just described Stepe Mesic, you know the former Croat politician.

"...we have a higher IQ better athletically."

There might have been a few bright Croats throughout history (not sure who), but none with the acclaim and achievement of Nikola Tesla, 100% Serb. And regarding athletics, when was the last time a Croat beat Novak Djokavic. For the past several years he's been at the top of the tennis world.

"...we liberated ourselves with no ones help."

All of your comments are ridiculous, but this one takes the cake. Its one thing to be proud, but try to be at least a little realistic. Without the help of NATO and the west, Croatia would never have survived.

Zdravko, you're a real piece of work. It's obvious that you weren't part of the sample size for the IQ testing, or the Croat score would have been considerably lower, no doubt.

And regarding your claim of Croat superior intellect, I'm not sure where your source got his staistics, but a one point difference between Serbs & Croats is nothing to be bragging about. Could very well be a rounding error. But when you have so little to brag about, I guess you reach for anything you can.

Your attempt to disparage Serb achevement is comical. You criticize Vlade Divac because he has a beard. Funny, name one Croat who played in the NBA 16 years, scored more than 13,000 pts., had more than 9,000 rebounds and 1,500 blocked shots. His work as a humanitarian is very well-know. And all you can do is criticize the man because he has a beard?? Back to the drawing board.

And Djokovic has been losing like crazy? Please Zdravko, answer the question I asked earlier: when was the last time a Croat beat him??

Your name is about as slavic as they get. Yet you claim you are a decendant of Iranians. Too funny. Why don't you change your name then? I've seen many Croats with non-slavic names like Mario, Dario and Nino, but I haven't senn any yet with an Iranian / Persian name. Go for it Zdravko, be a trend-setter. You can be the first. How about Mohammad?

Bob how dare you insult us Croatians we are not Slavs. Look at the facial features we look nothing like those dirty hairy bushy eyebrowed murderers. Croatia has every right to tear down the signs that have been put up in the same town where thousands were murdered raped and kicked out of THIER HOMES! We are better than serbia in many aspects we look better we have a higher IQ better athletically it's just facts. Tear down those signs yes we commited crimes in ww11 not in the 90's! Serbia did this to us Bosnia Kosovo and Albania mass graves psychotic murderers. The people who died and fought in Vukovar did not die for those signs to stand. You people are ridiculous. Typical Chetnik serbians blinded by serbian propaganda. We fly our flags we are proud because we liberated ourselves with no ones help.

@njegos Serbia has the lowest IQ in Europe look it up it's A FACT and Croatia is better at soccer waterpolo basketball handball as a team and Djokovic is arrogant and a prime example of a true serbian who has been loosing like crazy. Your mind is somewhere else buddy. Look at your typical serbian Vlade Divac big beard ridiculous animal like humans who rip up flags and throw them on the ground on national tv look at karadic. We are descendents from tribes of Iran. Again do your research we invented the tie the pen and other things. You should be embarrassed at what your people did not defend them! Oluja took 1 day to free our country against serbia backed up with fighter planes, guns and ammo like crazy, tanks trained soldiers etc.ANTE GOTOVINA freed us in under 2 days after 5 years of watching his people being slaughtered. Where is your proof of genocide being commited in Oluja? Croatia freed themselves in Knin not Krajina and rightfully so! It is CROATIA not serbia we have every right to defend ourselves amongst your countries murderers and Chetniks who did way worse than what was done in Operation Oluja!Talking to serbians my friends is like talking to a brick wall.They can not comprehend or understand what they did in the 1990's was the worst thing since WWII and you'll always make excuses so let me ask you this why did you go into Bosnia after Croatia why did your people murder 10's of thousands there?Why did you go into Albania and murder?Why did you go into Kosovo?

A law needs to be enacted... declaring that all people who offend, or try to offend, the Albanian Kosovar or Croatian nation are guilty of treason—a crime punishable by death. Eradication is the key. You can't negotiate with animals, they need to be slaughtered. Someone mentioned that the Croats and Serbs have forgotten Christ. Well let me tell you something which you already know...it was the Serbs that destroyed many Catholic churches and pinched all religious and cultural items. Look at your own race before mentioning Christ.

"It's like having German signage in downtown Jerusalem- it would never happen or be accepted..."

Am I dreaming or did you just equate Croats with Jews and Serbs with German Nazis?

Hypocrisy overload.

@ Dalmatian - knight all croatian's are catholic Serbs !

njegos- "how we saw it" vs "you"!

Milosevic DID NOT accept diplomacy in the government and you mentioned he was "a hard-core communist and not a Serb nationalist", but for all republics that made up Yugoslavia, he did everything in his power utilizing "other Serb" politicians to ensure Serbs control the country through manipulative and "representing the SERBIAN branch of the Communist Party"...please note "SERBIAN BRANCH" not "YUGOSLAVIAN BRANCH"! it was to benefit Serbs and he had no shame is his opinions, he never his how he felt about anything or anyone...does this ring a bell? remember you said Serbs in Krajina were in fear...because of history...well, Croats saw the writing on the wall...Slobo "advocated greater centralism – multiparty democracy, but dismantled the federation. By contrast, the presidents of Slovenia and Croatia wanted more autonomy, multi-party democracy and liberalism"!

you said "Croatia asked for war and got it. Unfortunate, but diplomacy was never attempted." Legally, Croatia could not separate so they tried autonomy, seeing that Milosevic was taking control and representing the "SERBIAN BRANCH", once again...very telling...Croats saw 1986 Serbian SANU Memorandum and the 1989 coups in Vojvodina, Kosovo and Montenegro... Serbs in Croatia left Sabor and declared the autonomy of areas that would soon become the unrecognised Republic of Serbian Krajina, intent on achieving independence from Croatia...but you point out Croatia "seceding prematuraly?

A law needs to be enacted... declaring that all people who offend, or try to offend, the Albanian Kosovar or Croatian nation are guilty of treason—a crime punishable by death. Eradication is the key. You can't negotiate with animals, they need to be slaughtered.
(Bam Bam, 28 March 2014 05:35)

And finally the veil comes off the little boy called "Bam Bam". I think you're living in the wrong country Mr. Bam Bam. Try Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, or North Korea. They're more up your alley.

And ask mommy to change your diaper because you obviously made a poo poo from getting so upset.

njegos - you said "This is what civilized societies do. I've also said what occurred in Yugoslavia in the 90s was a three-way civil war where there were no good guys".

Civil was is when all 3 sides are armed, its a defensive war when JNA tanks and Serb militia attack your cities...first in Slovenija, then in Croatia...are you saying Croats and Slovenes provoked a war? primarily Dalmacija and Slavonija were attacked...where Vukovar was ATTACKED by Serb militia and then supported by JNA...why did this attacked get confused with CIVIL WAR in the opinion of you Serbs? "there were no good guys"...people wanted revenge njegos, is it right, no, its human nature to watch what happened in Vukovar, that was pummelled by monsters...and want revenge, if you didnt lose someone there you couldnt imagine the pain...just like Jasenovac! not the same situation but in recent history in Europe, it was atrocious behavior that the Serbs did but blame PR teams from Croatia!

it is comments like the one you made earlier when Croats wonder why you think we can be civil and allow cirilica? you said Milosevic was a hard core communist and yet his actions proved he was a hard core "Serb", manipulating the government so Serbs control the entire country..."velika Srbija"...why don't you see things like this if it is clear?

this turned into a civil war but it was initiated by Serbs in Dalmacija and Slavonija. "Serbs in Croatia left Sabor and declared the autonomy" - not their to secede!

Zdravko

Are there seriously still imbeciles in Croatia, who think they are not a Slavic nation? I have heard about this before, but thought it was a few marginal morons during WWII, but there are still people today that think this? You are not some mystical Iranian tribe or some lost Germanic tribe as some idiotic "academic sources" have suggested, you are Slavs, genetically clustering closer to the core Slavic nations, like Ukraine, Poland, Belarus etc. than Serbs do, even. And the language is no coincidence either, you know? ;)

But anyway, on topic, I can understand Croatia here. Vukovar was one of the greatest crimes committed by the JNA. There was no justification whatsoever to destroy the city and kill hundreds of civilians.

It would be the same as the sign of a foreign aggressor in the city of a victim people anywhere else in Europe. Obviously you don't want to be reminded of those time when your people fell victim to foreign guns.

Though indeed, they could remove them in a cultured fashion instead of demolishing them like hooligans, here I understand the Serbs more.

@ njegos...All of your comments are ridiculous, but this one takes the cake. Its one thing to be proud, but try to be at least a little realistic. Without the help of NATO and the west, Croatia would never have survived.

Seriously how far would've the Serbs have gone if the JNA weren't helping them at every turn. You have a bunch of un-shaven drunken irregulars assisted by one of Europes strongest armies. Without the JNA the Serbs would've all but turned to dust. The Serbs are only strong when they kill civilians from a distance of 2-20km. Close combat they run like rabbits. Where were the so called heroic soldiers that Arkan commanded in Croatia and BiH in 1995=No where to be seen !

From CC: "Croatia had every right to fight for Krajina, if you believe Serbs had a right to claim it as their own then that would fall into the "velika Srbija" column."

The Greater Serbia claim was used by well-paid PR firms because it played well in the western press. Look at the facts though. Serbs have lived in Krajina for more than 500 yrs. Invited by the A-H Empire in return for military service well before present day borders were established. During WWII a Greater Croatia was created and Serbs were killed en masse. In 1992, Croatia declared independence and invited back WWII war criminals, renamed streets after Ustasha butchers, fired Serbs from their jobs, vandalized their homes and killed many well before any large scale fighting took place with the JNA. The Serbs only wanted to live on the land they had lived on for 500+ years in peace. The Serbs didn't break away. They found themselves living in a hostile environment overnight with no say whatsoever. What would you have done?

I don't dispute that the communist gov't, which may have been mostly Serb, discriminiated against Croats in your area. As I've explained, my family was also victims of that regime. But Croatia violated the constitution and international law by seceding prematuraly aided by the US & Germany.

War ensued. Vukovar was leveled. Thousands of Croats and Serbs were killed. Croatia asked for war and got it. Unfortunate, but diplomacy was never attempted.

remember when I explained to you about my family, how we have lived with the same Serbian family as our neighbors for a few generations? well, they immediately showed their true colors once JNA tanks and Serb militia attacked our town and they fought for Serbia in Croatia. If you feel Serbs should feel fear how do you expect Croats to feel...trust

You and your fellow croats showed your true colors in Jasenovac and in Operation Storm, killing your neighbours and looting their houses just because they were serbs. Why should croats be in fear of serbs, serbs didnt form jasenovac and gradiska stara now did they? Serbs didnt form the only concentration camp for Children, Jadovno, did they? Last but not least, noone fought for velika srbija that is just a myth invented by you croats to justify all those horrible crimes you committed upon serbs.

Croatian Canadia - I don't dispute that Milosevic did very bad things. The difference in my view and yours is that I maintain he was a hard-core communist and not a Serb nationalist. He was out for his own gain and nothing more. He sacraficed Serbs in Krajina and in Bosnia. If he were a nationalist he wouldn't have tried to broker a deal with Tudjman in Bosnia and he wouldn't have abandoned the Krajina Serbs.

I also don't dispute that he manipulated things within the gov't. as you pointed out for his own gain and power. But where we also differ I suspect is with Tudjman. In my view, he was a true nationalist who had a vehement hatred of Serbs. His writings confirm that. His writings also confirm that he was a supporter of the former facist regime and had no tolerance for minorities. Most Croats view him as their father of independence. Serbs in Croatia viewed him as a threat. This shouldn't that hard to understand. Tudjman never wanted to use diplomacy and when he gained the support of the US & Germany, he realized he didn't have to. He could go to war, regardless of the cost.

I strongly feel that the US should have worked with the opposition in Serbia to get rid of Milosevic instead of supporting an illegal secession that everyone knew would be costly to all sides. The opposition to Milosevic was significant in Serbia and with western help, he could have been removed and war may have been avoided. That's my opinion.

njegos- I will respond more tomorrow, here is one view in a few words:

Milosevic was a socialist, having inherited his position in the post-Titoist Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia, as the communist party tried to find a future without their personality cult. Yugoslavia, through Titoism, hadn’t been as badly damaged as the rest of the eastern socialist states, largely because it was outside the Warsaw Pact and the Soviet bloc (Tito rejected Stalinism in 1948 and adopted a soft socialism – allowing small private businesses to remain and develop). However, after the fall of socialism in the Soviet bloc, there was enormous pressure to move to multi-party democracy. It was in 1990 that Milosevic, representing the Serbian branch of the Communist Party, advocated greater centralism – multiparty democracy, but dismantling the federation. By contrast, the presidents of Slovenia and Croatia wanted more autonomy, multi-party democracy and liberalism. Milosevic won the day – he had already supported the racist hysteria propagated by the Serbian Academy of Sciences and the Arts. The Academy promoted the view that Serbs had a golden age, which came about before the Serb defeat by the Turks in Kosovo in 1389. Milosevic had already just about obliterated the autonomy of Kosovo and Vojvodina, as he kept Serbia in the socialist dark age. He encouraged the idea that Kosovo Albanians were dirty, thieves, rapists and not worthy of governing Serbs.

Croatian Canadian - Well said, with the exception of your following statement: "I can handle the truth and accept we did wrong but I've yet see a single Serb do the same..."

In my discussions with you, I have admitted Serb wrongdoing. Other Serbs on this site have done so also. I've condemned Milosevic and Arkan. I praise Serbia for prosecuting war criminals. This is what civilized societies do. I've also said what occurred in Yugoslavia in the 90s was a three-way civil war where there were no good guys. Not sure what else you expect. We will always, I suspect, disagree on the causes of the war. You have your opinions and I have mine.

Cro Can - You selectively go back to 1989 and point out Milosevic's dictatorial tactics to support your position. Why don't you go back further? You've said you don't like to discuss WWII, but you can't pick & choose the points in history that support your positions without full perspective.

Let's start with the creation of Serbs, Croats & Slovenes. The Serbs won the war and the Croats fearing assimilation into A-H society wanted to join the South Slav state. Naively the Serbs accepted them. From day 1 the Croats were obstructionist, pushing for an independence. During WWII Croats massacred Serbs in masse while establishing an independent Croatia. Post WWII, Tito disallowed nationalism in favor of brotherhood & unity. In 1974 he gave autonomy to Vojvodina & Kosovo. Croatia was given more political power. Serbs, the most populous ethnic group, felt threatened. In Kosovo, Albanians had their own schools & a university in their own language. With their newfound autonomy, they viewed Kosovo as their own and accelerated violence against Serbs there. In 1989 Slobo cracked down brutally on the Albanians. He knew this would win support of the Serbs. He reversed the 1974 privileges of many areas, Croatia included. He knew that Croatia & Slovenia wanted independence but fought it because 2 million Serbs would find themselves in states that tried to eradicate them. Milosevic played the nationalist to retain his grip on power. In the end he betrayed the Serbs like a true communist.

From CC: "Civil was is when all 3 sides are armed"

I agree. So explain to me why it is OK for your civilized Croats to kill close to 2000 unarmed civilians during Storm?

"people wanted revenge njegos, is it right, no..."

You may look at WWII as ancient history, but many Serbs in that region had fathers, mothers and grandparents slaughtered by Ustasha. So revenge works both ways.

"it is comments like the one you made earlier when Croats wonder why you think we can be civil and allow cirilica?"

Wrong again. Croats agreed to Cyrillic signs in areas with 30% plus Serb population because it was an EU requirement. Once in, they reneged. The gov't. that you Croats elected voted for it - now accept it.

You say Serbs in Dalmajtia & Slavonia initiated the war. That's comical. Leading up to Tudjman's election and after, Serbs were fired from jobs, had their property vandalized and many killed before any JNA troops rolled in. This is a fact. And you expected the Serbs to live in a new Croatia with no voice where Dinko Sakic of Jasenovac fame was invited back by your new president. Get real.

Croatia armed themselves for war. They broke international law and the constitution. War is a terrible thing. But Tudjman made that choice with the backing of the US & Germany. Serbs used everything at their disposal. What did you expect? Were war crimes committed? Yes. The difference is that Serbs have, and continue to prosecute theirs. When will Croatia do the same.

These Croats are nuts !

Daniel- tell me, when did a single Croat ever go fight in Serbia?

So what if no croat ever Went and fough in serbia? The serbs in Croatia fought for their homes, they lived there, they didnt come from Mars. And by the way Croatia was a part of another country called Yugoslavia if you already forgot that. As a croatian canadian your opinion is completely irrelevant, you never lived in Yugoslavia and you probably dont even speak the language.

Hey Zdravko - Did you see Novak Djokovic win the Sony Open in Miami over the weekend? I thought you said he's been losing like crazy? It only took him 1 hour and 23 minutes to beat Rafael Nadal of Spain.

Were any Croats in the tournament Zdravko? With all that athletic superiority that you boast about, I thought for sure one would have made it to the championship. But you were wrong again. You really need to get over that inferiority complex that you have. Life's too short.

From Croatian Canadian: "...why don't you bring NATO to the UN for war crimes if this is what apparently happened?"

There is no doubt that NATO committed war crimes, particularly with their bombing of Serbia during the Bosnia & Kosovo conflicts. Civilians were killed and bombs with depleted uranium were dropped. These are war crimes. But with regard to the Croatian conflict, the US & Germany violated the arms embargo by arming Croatia to the teeth and providing them with military intelligence that was used on a civilian population. You can pound your chest all you want about Operation Storm and celebrate it as a military victory, but in reality close to 2,000 Serbs were kiled, primarliy elderly civilains, women and children included. Then in the aftermath, Croatian soldiers burned, looted and killed many of the elderly Serbs who remained, most by slitting their throats.

I blame Milosevic for abandoning the Krajina Serbs and allowing these war crimes to take place. However, no real military expert would ever put this operation in the category of a military victory.

You claim no war crimes were committed because Gotovina & co. were acquitted. That's a rather shallow perspective. The fact remains 2,000 Serbs were killed. War crimes were committed. For the Hague and the west to find Croatians guilty would be to admit that they supported the wrong side in the war. If you think the Hague has been evenhanded and has meted out justice appropriately you are very naieve.

njegos- "Croatia asked for war and got it. Unfortunate, but diplomacy was never attempted."

I copied this because I don't think you will accept my version:

"The representatives of Vojvodina, Kosovo and Montenegro were replaced with people loyal to Slobodan Milošević, who was at that time President of Serbia, by 1990. This way, Serbia secured four out of eight federal presidency votes and was able to heavily influence decision-making at the federal level, since all the other Yugoslav republics only had one vote. While Slovenia and Croatia wanted to allow a multi-party system, Serbia, led by Milošević, demanded an even more centralized federation and Serbia's dominant role in it"..."At the 14th Extraordinary Congress of the League of Communists of Yugoslavia in January 1990, the Serbian-dominated assembly agreed to abolish the single-party system; however, Slobodan Milošević, the head of the Serbian Party branch (League of Communists of Serbia) used his influence to block and vote-down all other proposals from the Croatian and Slovene party delegates. This prompted the Croatian and Slovene delegations to walk out and thus the break-up of the party, a symbolic event representing the end of "brotherhood and unity"....


you can say "But Croatia violated the constitution and international law by seceding prematuraly"...but Slobo was a nationalist that everyone knew was looking out for "velika Srbija"...even you know that!

BTW- Communism was falling all over Europe!

@njegos
I referred to Divac throwing the Croatian flag on the floor in public which you left out and focused on the beard. And I am proud to carry my name genius there are many Croats named Zdravko it stands for healthy brilliant serbian. I am a proud Croat I'm proud of our beautiful beaches out beautiful music OUR NATIONAL ANTHEM our tourism our fishing industry and more than anything proud of being a descendent of the USTASHA too bad they didn't get a hold of you. I am proud of our freedom from you nasty dirty people!!! We are obviously not the same and no Croatian ever beat Djokovic to answer your question big deal who won the gold medal in waterpolo? CROATIA. Who kicked serbia out of the World Cup? CROATIA. Who is in the top 3 in handball CROATIA. You have 2 individuals to be proud of djokovic and Tesla woooooow! You dirty ottoman Turks!!! Answer my questions as I've answered yours why did serbs go and murder 10's if thousands of Bosnians after Croatia and the same in Albania and Kosovo? Now answer that don't bs me with your childish attacks on IQs it's a fact look it up online type in lowest IQ in Europe you psychotic murderers will pop right up. Answer my question now again I ask why did your people have to murder 10's of thousands in multiple countries WHY? No Croat has beat Djokovic I answered your question again now use your amazing IQ TO ANSWER MY QUESTION!!!!

it would be nice for once, for us to discuss with integrity! I am not ever going to be ashamed of my family history, for them being Ustase and for them defending Croatians in Croatia, not do I expect a Cetnik family to be ashamed of themselves for defending their own. with that said, I am not proud of how some Ustase behaved and I believe that is a dark part of history which should be condemned, not glorified! I speak as a Croat and a person...murdering is barbaric...no excuse!

far to many people on this site point fingers and dont accept any responsibility whatsoever! the hatred is atrocious, the blame is a joke and the total lack of knowledge and respect is far from how civilized and cultured people behave. both side...each of us only blame the other...I cant even laugh anymore because its become ridiculous and so counter-productive. do people come here to unleash their daily output of hatred? is this really how we live...angry and hateful? do you really hate a Serb or Croat so much that if we were in a war with a common enemy we'd end up screwiiing each other?

I love my Hrvatska and I respect everyone else, I'm not afraid of anybody or history! I can handle the truth and accept we did wrong but I've yet see a single Serb do the same...its always the same "Croatians murdered, Jasenovac, it wasnt Serbs it was your PR team, Croats committed genocide and we Serbs are innocent..."

From Croatian Canadian: "...seeing that Milosevic was taking control and representing the "SERBIAN BRANCH", once again...very telling..."

You conveniently leave out the fact that there was a "Croatian Branch" also. The fact is that in 1989, the communist blueprint that Tito had held together for so long, unraveled and the regime splintered along ethnic lines. This, by the way, is something that Croatians pushed for since their entry into the state in 1918. When Tudjman won the election in 1990, there was no turning back. His nationalistic ideology was embraced by the overwhelming majority of Croats. His racist comments and writings are well known. Croatia, with the aid of the US & Germany, armed themselves. They paid millions to MPRI, a US organization run by retired US military officials to make their armed forces state of the art. Croatia had no intention of ever trying to separate peacefully. They had no regard for the Serbs of Krajina who had been living there for centuries. They were purged from their jobs, homes were destroyed and many killed long before any JNA troops were there. I've said this before, but it bears repeating. Croatia wanted war. They got it. Don't cry about the results. Croatia is an independent country where Serbs were cleansed and RS is virtually independent where Croats were cleansed.

I've given you my opinion of Milosevic, but you've never given me yours on Tudjman. How exactly do you feel about the father of Croatian independence?

From Croatian Canadian: "....but the real question you didnt answer is why is it ok for "Serbs in Croatia left Sabor and declared the autonomy" - not their to secede! "They had no regard for the Serbs of Krajina who had been living there for centuries" - THE SERBS DECLARED AUTONOMY! ACT OF WAR?"

First, Croatia had autonomy as a result of the 1974 constitution and even the 1963 constitution. I could ask you the same thing, 'If it was OK for croats to have autonomy within Yugoslavia, why then shouildn't the Serbs have autonomy within Croatia?' In 1986, when the Serbs left the Sabor, there was increasing violence against Serbs in Kosovo. The nationalist element was growing in Croatia. Slovenia and Croatia both wanted more autonomy. In 1989 Slobo played on the fear of the Serbs. Did he go about it the right way? In my opinion, no. But I don't agree with the way any of the ethnic leaders, Milosevic, Tudjman & Izetbegovic conducted themselves during the conflicts. Again, my opinion.

But you're comparing apples to oranges when you talk about Serbs walking out of the Sabor in 1986 and Croatia seceding from a sovereign country, in violation of international law in 1991. That's a far, far stratch my friend.

Look, Croatia wanted independence. Did they go about it the right way? In my opinion, no. They were very insensetive to the Serbs who had been living there for centuries. Were the Serbs innocent in the whole mess? As I've said before, no.

Croatian Canadian - Now that we've gotten beyond the stone throwing you seem to be a decent human being. I've always said there are good and bad in all people. Loving your heritage and culture is a characteristic that I admire in anyone. Rabid fanaticism is something that is destructive and dangerous.

I'll admit, I don't know many Croatians. Those that I do are 2nd and 3rd generation and are more American than they are Croatian.

Just as I try not to paint people with a broad brush, I don't appreciate it when Serbs are painted with a broad brush as they have been by the west and the media regarding the conflicts of the 90s.

As I've said, there is much we won't agree on regarding the origins of the war, but everyone has a right to their opinions as long as they are expressed in a civil manner. On such a sensitive and divisive topic, emotions run high and things are said that shouldn't be said sometimes. It is human nature to defend your own and I will continue to do so as will you. But in the end, as you said, we are all just people.

@ thanasis b92 only displays anti Serbian comments my comments

njegos - war crimes may have been committed, I just don't believe Gotovina had anything to do with them, my personal opinion.

you and I have come a long way from the name calling, I prefer to stay like this,I find it more productive.

in the end of all this njegos I still find that Croatia had every right to fight for Krajina, if you believe Serbs had a right to claim it as their own then that would fall into the "velika Srbija" column, a reason which justifies the way Croatians feel about Serbs in the region and as to why they don't want cirilica on the walls of a Croatian town, they don't want another situation where Serbs try to claim a town as part of "velika Srbija"!

remember when I explained to you about my family, how we have lived with the same Serbian family as our neighbors for a few generations? well, they immediately showed their true colors once JNA tanks and Serb militia attacked our town and they fought for Serbia in Croatia. If you feel Serbs should feel fear how do you expect Croats to feel...trust? Never knowing what your neighbor may do if another war in the region would break out? what would Serbs in a part of Srbija do if at any given moment they thought a minority group would rise to fight for their "motherland"...perhaps Kosovars? it makes the situation unstable, nobody likes to live beside somone they cannot trust!

IQ test proving serbians have the lowest IQ in Europe look it up scroll down and find Croatia now argue the point you Chetniks and serbian pride people! Just a fact!! Now learn how to face it instead of looking at some other topic to change it to. Happy reading :) http://robertlindsay.wordpress.com/2010/05/18/who-are-the-smartest-white-europeans/

Daniel-"And by the way Croatia was a part of another country called Yugoslavia if you already forgot that. As a croatian canadian your opinion is completely irrelevant, you never lived in Yugoslavia and you probably dont even speak the language."

1) learn world history not Serbian history, Croatia has existed for centuries starting in the 7th although some say earlier!

2)I lived in and played professional soccer in the former Yugo...go preach to someone else!

njegos- Tudjman...he got Croatian its independence, so for that I recognize him. My personal opinions on his views....I don't like him, he was an irresponsible person who made very controversial and ignorant comments!

To Serbs in general. my opinion is if you live in another country then be invested in that nation emotionally, physically and with all intents to die for that country, not to have hopes you will one day rejoin the Yugo umbrella or Serbs from Beograd will work on a greater plan to bring to home as a part of velika Srbija! many Serbs joined Croatian forces and fought for Hrvatska, as it should be, today they are part of Croatia and the culture...the others will never be accepted, too much bad blood has been shed...one from Croatia's side and the other from Serbian side.

I will make this part clear! JASENOVAC WAS WRONG, ANTE PAVELIC DID WRONG, TUDJMAN WAS A TYPICAL POLITICIAN THAT DID LITTLE GOOD AND A LOT OF BAD!

njegos- 2000 victims is not ok, I disagree on killing any innocent people.

njegos-"I agree. So explain to me why it is OK for your civilized Croats to kill close to 2000 unarmed civilians during Storm?"

going back to another question, you said Croatia illegally declared independence....well, Croatia first wanted autonomy, this was democratic and non aggressive considering the rest of Communist Europe fell while Milosevic was clearly setting his people in place to control all of Yugo!

njegos you said here: "You say Serbs in Dalmajtia & Slavonia initiated the war. That's comical."

is it really ? read this in the UN Tribunal court by the Serbian lawyer: "We were showing here that the crimes committed in eastern Slavonia were not genocide, but we did not hide the fact that these acts are crimes. We are not the type of people who celebrate crimes in Ovčara, Lovas or Skabrnja"!

one hand he denies genocide on the other...you and him differ in opinions. he says Serbs committed crimes on November 20, 1991 in Ovcara...notice the date...did Croats attack anyone by this date...also..."the villages were attacked by and later invaded by the Serbian forces. Lovas Croats (85.7%), with some Serbs (7.9%) and others (6.4%) October 10, 1991." DESTROYED!....AND On November 18, 1991, Serb paramilitaries, supported by the JNA, murdered the village of Skabrnja...women and elderly.Skabrnja ethnically cleansed of its non-Serb population and annexed to the Republic of Serbian Krajina, remaining there until the Croatian forces reintegrated them back in 1995.

njegos-"I agree. So explain to me why it is OK for your civilized Croats to kill close to 2000 unarmed civilians during Storm?"

going back to another question, you said Croatia illegally declared independence....Croatia first wanted autonomy, this was democratic and non aggressive considering the rest of Communist Europe fell while Milosevic was clearly setting his people in place to control all of Yugo!

njegos you said here: "You say Serbs in Dalmajtia & Slavonia initiated the war. That's comical."

is it really ? read this in the UN Tribunal court by the Serbian lawyer: "We were showing here that the crimes committed in eastern Slavonia were not genocide, but we did not hide the fact that these acts are crimes. We are not the type of people who celebrate crimes in Ovčara, Lovas or Skabrnja"!

one hand he denies genocide on the other...you and him differ in opinions. he says Serbs committed crimes on November 20, 1991 in Ovcara...notice the date...did Croats attack anyone by this date...also..."the villages were attacked by and later invaded by the Serbian forces. Lovas Croats (85.7%), with some Serbs (7.9%) and others (6.4%) October 10, 1991." DESTROYED!....AND On November 18, 1991, Serb paramilitaries, supported by the JNA, murdered the village of Skabrnja... mostly women and elderly.Skabrnja ethnically cleansed of its non-Serb population and annexed to the Republic of Serbian Krajina, remaining there until the Croatian forces reintegrated them back in 1995.

From Croatian Canadian: "today Read a comment where you said: "Milosevic played the nationalist to retain his grip on power" ...and yet a few days ago you said Milosevic was not a Serb Nationalist...here: "I don't dispute that Milosevic did very bad things. The difference in my view and yours is that I maintain he was a hard-core communist and not a Serb nationalist."

Let me explain what I meant. Milovevic 'played the nationalist,' meaning he would have played 'a green martian' if it would have helped him retain his power. He was a chameleon; he was whatever he had to be, and in the end he showed his true colors as a communist traitor. My opinion.

one thing I find interesting is that Serbs have great interest in the reactions of Croats during 90's...after Vukovar, Skabrnje, Dubrovnik and many other places....then you point to Oluja. The question you should be asking yourself is what would you have done if your towns were levelled, not a single person or animal alive...houses and buildings burned to the ground...from the hands of Serb militia and JNA!

you can hide behind the 'ol "Croatian PR" bs...but even the Serbian lawyer currently at the UN hearings admitted Serbs committed crimes...not diplomacy but pure and blatant crimes of war using force far more powerful than the civilians could handle!

and of course he takes away any sincerity by first claiming Serbs don't celebrate while Croats do...well, we celebrate the "victory" and not the crimes committed after!

"We were showing here that the crimes committed in eastern Slavonia were not genocide, but we did not hide the fact that these acts are crimes. We are not the type of people who celebrate crimes in Ovčara, Lovas or Skabrnja"

SURE...I see you Serbs on this site celebrating deaths of Croats daily!

njegos-we are doing well today...I'm glad to see it!

you said: "Look, Croatia wanted independence. Did they go about it the right way? In my opinion, no. They were very insensetive to the Serbs who had been living there for centuries. Were the Serbs innocent in the whole mess? As I've said before, no."

I do agree with all this, although I'm no historian I do believe in diplomacy, peace, working things out...but thats just me, I dont control the Croatian government!

I will say this...growing up I knew many Serb families and some Muslimane...during my time in Europe it seemed relatively normal amongst all 3 sides unless some nutsack got drunk and started calling people Ustase or Cetnici. the one difference I will tell you is that the Croatians I knew never had issues with Serbs, quite the contrary...but they had issues with not having Croatia, plain and simple! it had nothing to do whatsoever with any 1 person, it had everything to do with Croatians not having their identity...and in Yugoslavia that was all lost!

free a lion from his cage after he spends a lifetime in it and he'll kill you before you put him back in that cage!

I think this world will have more issues as long as people emigrate and don't accept their new home as their only home...Muslims all over the world have issues because they wont assimilate, Serbs in Croatia shouldn't live their if they don't accept Croatia 100%...just look at the issues in Germany, USA, Sweden...

From Croatian Canadian: "We were showing here that the crimes committed in eastern Slavonia were not genocide, but we did not hide the fact that these acts are crimes."

Again, Serbs did commit crimes. No one is disputing that. My point is Serbs were fired from their jobs, had their homes vandalized and many were murdered leading up to Tudjman's election and immediatetly after. Ustasha signs were reintroduced. Serbs responded. You would have too. Did Serbs go overboard in some areas? I'm sure they did. Civil wars are the worst.

We will never agree on who initiated the conflict, but tell me why was there virtually no violence when Slovenia, Montenegro & Macedonia broke away? The reason is very simple and is at the heart of the Serb - Croat issue. Serbs were targeted for genocide by the Ustasha. You may not like to hear it, but this played a big role in the war of the 90s. The Croatian gov't. has minimized these crimes and never formally apologized. The same was true in Bosnia where the Muslims eargerly fought with the Nazis to slaughter Serbs during WWII. It is only natural that Serbs would not want to live in a hostile environment. You keep saying Serbs are welcome in Croatia if they abide by Croatian laws. Your countrymen paint a very different picture.

"SURE...I see you Serbs on this site celebrating deaths of Croats daily!" I don't see this at all. But I do see Croatians (Bam,bam & Lenard, etc.) & Albanians (azir) celebrate Serbs deaths whenever they can.

njegos- "We will never agree on who initiated the conflict, but tell me why was there virtually no violence when Slovenia, Montenegro & Macedonia broke away?" - I think you're treading lightly with that comment...everybody declared independence from Serbia...should they now attack Orthodox as well...Slovenia...the European Community pressured Slovenia and Croatia to place a three-month moratorium on their independence...it doesnt matter to me who else and why...you are justifying and I wont fall into that!

njegos- Croatia has thousands of Serbian citizens...hardly ever any issue. those that were involved in conspiring during the war should never go back...those that are good citizens are the first I'd present with honorary citizen awards, I swear to God I would! Every Croatian I know, other thyan extreme idiots, are way far away from anti Serbs...and again, this I swear! I also see the nationalists (which I feel is ok to love your country and culture)and those that really make me puke...they have nothing but hatred, to those i dont know what I can say...I hope one day they realize we are all just people!

to love Croatia does not mean to hate Serbs...this would be ridiculous...we have to open the door to everything, as long as you respect mine...I'll respect yours!

njegos- everytime I go back to Croatia I meet Serbs, they are either someone's neighbor, married into a friend's family or just someone that has lived there for several generations. In several instances, I learn that the person is Serbian because I've asked or it was brought up, nobody knows or cares, thats the truth! I've seen it in Slavonija, Dalmacija, Lika and most of all in Zagreb...I think people on sites like this make it a big deal but it really isnt!

One of my closest friends lives in Zagreb, his father was an Ustasa, his entire family were....he grew up in Canada and one of his childhood friends was a Serbian kid...the odd thing about what many Serbians think vs how it is...his father was the most gentle person, never hated anyone and a very religious man. as I had mentioned to you before, when the majority of Ustase signed up they never did so to murder, it was for their right to freedom, thats how we perceive it. some young Croats salute (like Hitler), they glorify the wrongdoings...I was always taught that is disgraceful..."if you know who you are then you should accept others"...no need to hate anyone! when my friends father died 6 years ago, that Serbian kid (now 46) attended the funeral with his parents, with that said I have a hard time understanding the perception most Serbian people have!?!?

I will never go back to Mostar (where I played soccer), I heard it is completely divided...I just dont want to see hatred!

These people are in the european Union !

njegos- I respect your views and appreciate your tone, thanks....I don't think you intentionally believe you know best but sometimes you may forget that these wars happen on Croatian soil where the majority of those killed are Croats, where the buildings/houses/properties and infrastructure being destroyed are on in Croatian territory.

today Read a comment where you said: "Milosevic played the nationalist to retain his grip on power" ...and yet a few days ago you said Milosevic was not a Serb Nationalist...here: "I don't dispute that Milosevic did very bad things. The difference in my view and yours is that I maintain he was a hard-core communist and not a Serb nationalist."

you went on to say: From CC: "Civil was is when all 3 sides are armed"

I agree. So explain to me why it is OK for your civilized Croats to kill close to 2000 unarmed civilians during Storm?

"people wanted revenge njegos, is it right, no..."

You may look at WWII as ancient history, but many Serbs in that region had fathers, mothers and grandparents slaughtered by Ustasha. So revenge works both ways." - YES IT DOES....but the real question you didnt answer is why is it ok for "Serbs in Croatia left Sabor and declared the autonomy" - not their to secede! "They had no regard for the Serbs of Krajina who had been living there for centuries" - THE SERBS DECLARED AUTONOMY! ACT OF WAR?

why is it ok for Serbs to declare autonomy from Croatia but Croatia cannot from communist Yugoslavia?

Why are Serbs even living in Croatia. Seriously is Serbia that bad that you would rather live under the 'U' then in Belgrade. Croats will never give up on cyrillic signage. It's like having German signage in downtown Jerusalem- it would never happen or be accepted, so why would this be any different. Nobody wants Serbs in Croatia, they are a hated race. We don't like the way they talk, look or the way they dress. For last time please get the hell out of Croatia for the she of humanity.

Don't these Chetnik idiots have a brain?
Serb Chetniks pour in from Serbia, they pound us with artillery, drop bombs on us from their aircraft, kill our fellow Croats at every chance they get, be they young or old, they lay waste to our cities, and kill and forcefully evict the inhabitants (Vukovar) and then, they expect us to acknowledge their barbaric Cyrillic symbols? Go back to Serbia, or even better yet leave Europe completely. Disgusting monsters.

"Why are Serbs even living in Croatia. Seriously is Serbia that bad that you would rather live under the 'U' then in Belgrade. Croats will never give up on cyrillic signage. It's like having German signage in downtown Jerusalem-" Bam Bam

Bam Bam,

you are on the wrong side of history, you croatians not Serbs that built concentration camps like the Germans. The cyrillic signage in croatia is a sign of liberation from the Nazi Croat's. Also, if Croatia was so great why do you not live there? Serbs have lived in these parts of croatia for centuries, that land was stolen from Serbia. You need to do some research using legitimate sources instead some fascist propaganda crap.

Just another day in the People's Banana Republic of Ustashistan.

@ robert1899 - you said "Serbs have lived in these parts of croatia for centuries, that land was stolen from Serbia. You need to do some research using legitimate sources instead some fascist propaganda crap."

I think you have look at recent history...according to any map those parts are Croatia and we do not live in the past. if we base things on how you look at it then we'd be redefining the maps across the globe!

Damn Ustasa

We don't like the way they talk, look or the way they dress. For last time please get the hell out of Croatia for the she of humanity.
(Bam Bam, 25 March 2014 12:58)

For the last time, YOU live in America. What the Hell right have you to dictate who lives in a country YOU don't live in? What the Hell do YOU know about Croatia other than what you read on extremist message boards? It's bad enough Croatia's flooded with idiots like you, but it's even more pathetic to know there's some loser living in America who thinks he's a Croatian patriot.

Seriously B92, why do you post Bam Bam's crap?

This really isn't news anymore. News would be a bi-lingual sign that lasts more than a month without being vandalized by Lijepa Nasa's Army of Homeless Veterans.

Amazing how Croatians are brought up with so much hatred against the very people from whom they descended. The Croatian FA Institute in Zagreb has proven this scientifically, acknowledging that Serbs are the older race so they can only be descendents. Check -> http://beforeitsnews.com/opinion-conservative/2013/07/zagreb-in-a-panic-scientifically-proven-that-croats-are-descendants-of-serbs-2687972.html

Comments which include insults, indecencies, racial or ethnic hate messages and intolerance of any kind will not be published.

What happened to your rule b92?

Bob how dare you insult us Croatians we are not Slavs. Look at the facial features we look nothing like those dirty hairy bushy eyebrowed murderers. Croatia has every right to tear down the signs that have been put up in the same town where thousands were murdered raped and kicked out of THIER HOMES! We are better than serbia in many aspects we look better we have a higher IQ better athletically it's just facts. Tear down those signs yes we commited crimes in ww11 not in the 90's! Serbia did this to us Bosnia Kosovo and Albania mass graves psychotic murderers. The people who died and fought in Vukovar did not die for those signs to stand. You people are ridiculous. Typical Chetnik serbians blinded by serbian propaganda. We fly our flags we are proud because we liberated ourselves with no ones help.

@ Dalmatian-Knight , 25 March 2014 16:34 )

We too have Dalmatian Knights right here in Texas. One of my horse groomers is one. And my favorite pipe cleaner is another one.

Childish behaviour from a bunch of arrogant spolit brats. Grow up you imbeciles!!

A law needs to be enacted... declaring that all people who offend, or try to offend, the Albanian Kosovar or Croatian nation are guilty of treason—a crime punishable by death. Eradication is the key. You can't negotiate with animals, they need to be slaughtered. Someone mentioned that the Croats and Serbs have forgotten Christ. Well let me tell you something which you already know...it was the Serbs that destroyed many Catholic churches and pinched all religious and cultural items. Look at your own race before mentioning Christ.

Comments which include insults, indecencies, racial or ethnic hate messages and intolerance of any kind will not be published.

What happened to your rule b92?
(thanasis, 25 March 2014 17:06)

100% agree. B92, please try to uphold the rules of commenting that people apparently do not read before they post hate messages. I know this may cut 50% of the comments out, but I'd rather have a civilized area of communication that have to deal with morons like the two posters below.

B92

If you are going to publish racist mush like that written by Bam Bam, then it has to be answered - possibly in kind.

Bam Bam sounds like the kind of person who was writing graffiti on Croatian walls about 'Serbs hanging from the trees' in the period before the troubles of the 90s started.

Croatia brought shame on itself because of Jasenovac and Bam Bam brings shame on them again.

Still - while there is some racist mud-slinging, perhaps we can all have a go!!!!

"Croats have the reputation of being too pompous for their own good
- they like to think they are somehow of a higher order.

The fact is that they are just Slavs with an overly heightened self view."

@njegos Serbia has the lowest IQ in Europe look it up it's A FACT and Croatia is better at soccer waterpolo basketball handball as a team and Djokovic is arrogant and a prime example of a true serbian who has been loosing like crazy. Your mind is somewhere else buddy. Look at your typical serbian Vlade Divac big beard ridiculous animal like humans who rip up flags and throw them on the ground on national tv look at karadic. We are descendents from tribes of Iran. Again do your research we invented the tie the pen and other things. You should be embarrassed at what your people did not defend them! Oluja took 1 day to free our country against serbia backed up with fighter planes, guns and ammo like crazy, tanks trained soldiers etc.ANTE GOTOVINA freed us in under 2 days after 5 years of watching his people being slaughtered. Where is your proof of genocide being commited in Oluja? Croatia freed themselves in Knin not Krajina and rightfully so! It is CROATIA not serbia we have every right to defend ourselves amongst your countries murderers and Chetniks who did way worse than what was done in Operation Oluja!Talking to serbians my friends is like talking to a brick wall.They can not comprehend or understand what they did in the 1990's was the worst thing since WWII and you'll always make excuses so let me ask you this why did you go into Bosnia after Croatia why did your people murder 10's of thousands there?Why did you go into Albania and murder?Why did you go into Kosovo?

Bam Bam sounds like the kind of person who was writing graffiti on Croatian walls about 'Serbs hanging from the trees' in the period before the troubles of the 90s started.
(Bob, 25 March 2014 20:13)

Someone like Bam Bam was probably running around in diapers in the 1990s at his grannie's house outside Chicago, Sydney, or Toronto. The only graffiti he could ever write was the type of fascist wannabe BS he trolls with here. If he ever visited Croatia, his attempt at speaking the language would be met with laughter and ridicule from actual Croats amused he's trying to identify as one of them with the broken village-dialect he picked up from one of his grandparents. His need to sound like the biggest baddest Croat on the internet shows he's desperate for attention. The other keyboard Croats are no better.

FOR THOSE WHO DIDNT KNOW: Bam Bam is albanian. One day he pretends to be alb, the next ctoatian sometimes even bosnian. it all depends on the article. He also goes by the name of Rocky and he is most likely an unemployed american/alb spending his days in an albanian club drinking cheap tea and dreaming about albanian greatness.

IQ test proving serbians have the lowest IQ in Europe look it up scroll down and find Croatia now argue the point you Chetniks and serbian pride people! Just a fact!! Now learn how to face it instead of looking at some other topic to change it to. Happy reading :) http://robertlindsay.wordpress.com/2010/05/18/who-are-the-smartest-white-europeans/

@njegos
I referred to Divac throwing the Croatian flag on the floor in public which you left out and focused on the beard. And I am proud to carry my name genius there are many Croats named Zdravko it stands for healthy brilliant serbian. I am a proud Croat I'm proud of our beautiful beaches out beautiful music OUR NATIONAL ANTHEM our tourism our fishing industry and more than anything proud of being a descendent of the USTASHA too bad they didn't get a hold of you. I am proud of our freedom from you nasty dirty people!!! We are obviously not the same and no Croatian ever beat Djokovic to answer your question big deal who won the gold medal in waterpolo? CROATIA. Who kicked serbia out of the World Cup? CROATIA. Who is in the top 3 in handball CROATIA. You have 2 individuals to be proud of djokovic and Tesla woooooow! You dirty ottoman Turks!!! Answer my questions as I've answered yours why did serbs go and murder 10's if thousands of Bosnians after Croatia and the same in Albania and Kosovo? Now answer that don't bs me with your childish attacks on IQs it's a fact look it up online type in lowest IQ in Europe you psychotic murderers will pop right up. Answer my question now again I ask why did your people have to murder 10's of thousands in multiple countries WHY? No Croat has beat Djokovic I answered your question again now use your amazing IQ TO ANSWER MY QUESTION!!!!

njegos- "how we saw it" vs "you"!

Milosevic DID NOT accept diplomacy in the government and you mentioned he was "a hard-core communist and not a Serb nationalist", but for all republics that made up Yugoslavia, he did everything in his power utilizing "other Serb" politicians to ensure Serbs control the country through manipulative and "representing the SERBIAN branch of the Communist Party"...please note "SERBIAN BRANCH" not "YUGOSLAVIAN BRANCH"! it was to benefit Serbs and he had no shame is his opinions, he never his how he felt about anything or anyone...does this ring a bell? remember you said Serbs in Krajina were in fear...because of history...well, Croats saw the writing on the wall...Slobo "advocated greater centralism – multiparty democracy, but dismantled the federation. By contrast, the presidents of Slovenia and Croatia wanted more autonomy, multi-party democracy and liberalism"!

you said "Croatia asked for war and got it. Unfortunate, but diplomacy was never attempted." Legally, Croatia could not separate so they tried autonomy, seeing that Milosevic was taking control and representing the "SERBIAN BRANCH", once again...very telling...Croats saw 1986 Serbian SANU Memorandum and the 1989 coups in Vojvodina, Kosovo and Montenegro... Serbs in Croatia left Sabor and declared the autonomy of areas that would soon become the unrecognised Republic of Serbian Krajina, intent on achieving independence from Croatia...but you point out Croatia "seceding prematuraly?

Canadian Croatian, you are wrong. In Serbia, arrests have been made by the Serbian government for crimes committed in Kosovo, Bosna, and Croatia. Videos were released and broadcast on TV of crimes committed by Serbs in the Balkan conflicts. Serbia extradited all of those wanted by the Hague. Croatia has not admitted to ONE single thing...not ONE. They still have not admitted their crimes from WW2 against Serbs, or their crimes during the Balkan conflicts against not only Serbs, but Bosnian Muslims as well. They celebrate the release of their 2 generals and operation storm for the atrocities committed on Serbs. Serbs do not celebrate Arkan, Milosevic, Mladic, Karadzic, etc.

Croatia needs to stop with this idiotic campaign of smashing cyrillic signs. Croatia wanted to join the EU. That was Croatia's decision. The standards of the EU do not allow for this kind of idiotic behavior. It's fascist behavior, and for elected official of an EU member to talk down a certain ethnic group is mind boggling. If Croatia is to be a democratic state where everyone has equal rights, then Croatia must use overwhelming force to defend those rights. That does not mean that Serbs there can disregard the laws and do what they want, they must respect the laws like we do in the US. Those that don't can be dealt with in legal ways. This Nazi style, fascist way that Croatia is using to deal with it is a complete disgrace.

I'm from Knin, our home for centuries until we were ethnically cleansed out. Not the first time. My family was murdered in WW2 and again in 1995. Croatians only identify with hate and pride, Serbs and Croats are Christians who have forgotten who Christ is. I am teaching my children to do better than this.

@ thanasis b92 only displays anti Serbian comments my comments

@ njegos...All of your comments are ridiculous, but this one takes the cake. Its one thing to be proud, but try to be at least a little realistic. Without the help of NATO and the west, Croatia would never have survived.

Seriously how far would've the Serbs have gone if the JNA weren't helping them at every turn. You have a bunch of un-shaven drunken irregulars assisted by one of Europes strongest armies. Without the JNA the Serbs would've all but turned to dust. The Serbs are only strong when they kill civilians from a distance of 2-20km. Close combat they run like rabbits. Where were the so called heroic soldiers that Arkan commanded in Croatia and BiH in 1995=No where to be seen !

Daniel- tell me, when did a single Croat ever go fight in Serbia?

you said "Serbs have lived in Krajina for more than 500 yrs" - any Mexican, Brit, Jew, Serb or any other group of people that live in a country for over 100 years should eventually reside to being part of that Nation and not consider themselves anything else other than the Nation they live in...and thats the problem with this entire situation...you want Serbs to have lived in Krajina to be considered "Krajina Serbs"...different from what any other Croatian citizen with DIFFERENT loyalties....

would you accept Kosovars in Serbia that have lived there for 500 years to be loyal to Kosovo or to Serbia?

WW11 is over, Croats did some wrong just as many Nations did...accept it and move on, Croatia has accepted their wrongdoings and admitted...move on!

Zdravko, you're a real piece of work. It's obvious that you weren't part of the sample size for the IQ testing, or the Croat score would have been considerably lower, no doubt.

And regarding your claim of Croat superior intellect, I'm not sure where your source got his staistics, but a one point difference between Serbs & Croats is nothing to be bragging about. Could very well be a rounding error. But when you have so little to brag about, I guess you reach for anything you can.

Your attempt to disparage Serb achevement is comical. You criticize Vlade Divac because he has a beard. Funny, name one Croat who played in the NBA 16 years, scored more than 13,000 pts., had more than 9,000 rebounds and 1,500 blocked shots. His work as a humanitarian is very well-know. And all you can do is criticize the man because he has a beard?? Back to the drawing board.

And Djokovic has been losing like crazy? Please Zdravko, answer the question I asked earlier: when was the last time a Croat beat him??

Your name is about as slavic as they get. Yet you claim you are a decendant of Iranians. Too funny. Why don't you change your name then? I've seen many Croats with non-slavic names like Mario, Dario and Nino, but I haven't senn any yet with an Iranian / Persian name. Go for it Zdravko, be a trend-setter. You can be the first. How about Mohammad?

it would be nice for once, for us to discuss with integrity! I am not ever going to be ashamed of my family history, for them being Ustase and for them defending Croatians in Croatia, not do I expect a Cetnik family to be ashamed of themselves for defending their own. with that said, I am not proud of how some Ustase behaved and I believe that is a dark part of history which should be condemned, not glorified! I speak as a Croat and a person...murdering is barbaric...no excuse!

far to many people on this site point fingers and dont accept any responsibility whatsoever! the hatred is atrocious, the blame is a joke and the total lack of knowledge and respect is far from how civilized and cultured people behave. both side...each of us only blame the other...I cant even laugh anymore because its become ridiculous and so counter-productive. do people come here to unleash their daily output of hatred? is this really how we live...angry and hateful? do you really hate a Serb or Croat so much that if we were in a war with a common enemy we'd end up screwiiing each other?

I love my Hrvatska and I respect everyone else, I'm not afraid of anybody or history! I can handle the truth and accept we did wrong but I've yet see a single Serb do the same...its always the same "Croatians murdered, Jasenovac, it wasnt Serbs it was your PR team, Croats committed genocide and we Serbs are innocent..."

Croatian Canadian - Well said, with the exception of your following statement: "I can handle the truth and accept we did wrong but I've yet see a single Serb do the same..."

In my discussions with you, I have admitted Serb wrongdoing. Other Serbs on this site have done so also. I've condemned Milosevic and Arkan. I praise Serbia for prosecuting war criminals. This is what civilized societies do. I've also said what occurred in Yugoslavia in the 90s was a three-way civil war where there were no good guys. Not sure what else you expect. We will always, I suspect, disagree on the causes of the war. You have your opinions and I have mine.

njegos - you said "This is what civilized societies do. I've also said what occurred in Yugoslavia in the 90s was a three-way civil war where there were no good guys".

Civil was is when all 3 sides are armed, its a defensive war when JNA tanks and Serb militia attack your cities...first in Slovenija, then in Croatia...are you saying Croats and Slovenes provoked a war? primarily Dalmacija and Slavonija were attacked...where Vukovar was ATTACKED by Serb militia and then supported by JNA...why did this attacked get confused with CIVIL WAR in the opinion of you Serbs? "there were no good guys"...people wanted revenge njegos, is it right, no, its human nature to watch what happened in Vukovar, that was pummelled by monsters...and want revenge, if you didnt lose someone there you couldnt imagine the pain...just like Jasenovac! not the same situation but in recent history in Europe, it was atrocious behavior that the Serbs did but blame PR teams from Croatia!

it is comments like the one you made earlier when Croats wonder why you think we can be civil and allow cirilica? you said Milosevic was a hard core communist and yet his actions proved he was a hard core "Serb", manipulating the government so Serbs control the entire country..."velika Srbija"...why don't you see things like this if it is clear?

this turned into a civil war but it was initiated by Serbs in Dalmacija and Slavonija. "Serbs in Croatia left Sabor and declared the autonomy" - not their to secede!

Zdravko

Are there seriously still imbeciles in Croatia, who think they are not a Slavic nation? I have heard about this before, but thought it was a few marginal morons during WWII, but there are still people today that think this? You are not some mystical Iranian tribe or some lost Germanic tribe as some idiotic "academic sources" have suggested, you are Slavs, genetically clustering closer to the core Slavic nations, like Ukraine, Poland, Belarus etc. than Serbs do, even. And the language is no coincidence either, you know? ;)

But anyway, on topic, I can understand Croatia here. Vukovar was one of the greatest crimes committed by the JNA. There was no justification whatsoever to destroy the city and kill hundreds of civilians.

It would be the same as the sign of a foreign aggressor in the city of a victim people anywhere else in Europe. Obviously you don't want to be reminded of those time when your people fell victim to foreign guns.

Though indeed, they could remove them in a cultured fashion instead of demolishing them like hooligans, here I understand the Serbs more.

"FOR THOSE WHO DIDNT KNOW: Bam Bam is albanian"

Bam Bam is a pathetic person consumed with anger and hate who uses words that reflect sociopathic tendencies.

From Zdravko: "... how dare you insult us Croatians we are not Slavs. Look at the facial features we look nothing like those dirty hairy bushy eyebrowed murderers."

Sounds like you just described Stepe Mesic, you know the former Croat politician.

"...we have a higher IQ better athletically."

There might have been a few bright Croats throughout history (not sure who), but none with the acclaim and achievement of Nikola Tesla, 100% Serb. And regarding athletics, when was the last time a Croat beat Novak Djokavic. For the past several years he's been at the top of the tennis world.

"...we liberated ourselves with no ones help."

All of your comments are ridiculous, but this one takes the cake. Its one thing to be proud, but try to be at least a little realistic. Without the help of NATO and the west, Croatia would never have survived.

"...we liberated ourselves with no ones help."

All of your comments are ridiculous, but this one takes the cake. Its one thing to be proud, but try to be at least a little realistic. Without the help of NATO and the west, Croatia would never have survived.
(njegos, 26 March 2014 15:52)


so then why are you blaming Croatia for "Oluja" if it wasn't them liberating themselves...why don't you bring NATO to the UN for war crimes if this is what apparently happened? Its simple njegos, you want to dance to one tune today and then another tomorrow...

strategically, the US helped Croatia in the Krajina area...there were no American soldiers there so I wonder what you consider help....advising? are you saying someone is guilty of advising Croatia on how to gain their territory back?

@ Dalmatian - knight all croatian's are catholic Serbs !

remember when I explained to you about my family, how we have lived with the same Serbian family as our neighbors for a few generations? well, they immediately showed their true colors once JNA tanks and Serb militia attacked our town and they fought for Serbia in Croatia. If you feel Serbs should feel fear how do you expect Croats to feel...trust

You and your fellow croats showed your true colors in Jasenovac and in Operation Storm, killing your neighbours and looting their houses just because they were serbs. Why should croats be in fear of serbs, serbs didnt form jasenovac and gradiska stara now did they? Serbs didnt form the only concentration camp for Children, Jadovno, did they? Last but not least, noone fought for velika srbija that is just a myth invented by you croats to justify all those horrible crimes you committed upon serbs.

njegos- I will respond more tomorrow, here is one view in a few words:

Milosevic was a socialist, having inherited his position in the post-Titoist Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia, as the communist party tried to find a future without their personality cult. Yugoslavia, through Titoism, hadn’t been as badly damaged as the rest of the eastern socialist states, largely because it was outside the Warsaw Pact and the Soviet bloc (Tito rejected Stalinism in 1948 and adopted a soft socialism – allowing small private businesses to remain and develop). However, after the fall of socialism in the Soviet bloc, there was enormous pressure to move to multi-party democracy. It was in 1990 that Milosevic, representing the Serbian branch of the Communist Party, advocated greater centralism – multiparty democracy, but dismantling the federation. By contrast, the presidents of Slovenia and Croatia wanted more autonomy, multi-party democracy and liberalism. Milosevic won the day – he had already supported the racist hysteria propagated by the Serbian Academy of Sciences and the Arts. The Academy promoted the view that Serbs had a golden age, which came about before the Serb defeat by the Turks in Kosovo in 1389. Milosevic had already just about obliterated the autonomy of Kosovo and Vojvodina, as he kept Serbia in the socialist dark age. He encouraged the idea that Kosovo Albanians were dirty, thieves, rapists and not worthy of governing Serbs.

Cro Can - You selectively go back to 1989 and point out Milosevic's dictatorial tactics to support your position. Why don't you go back further? You've said you don't like to discuss WWII, but you can't pick & choose the points in history that support your positions without full perspective.

Let's start with the creation of Serbs, Croats & Slovenes. The Serbs won the war and the Croats fearing assimilation into A-H society wanted to join the South Slav state. Naively the Serbs accepted them. From day 1 the Croats were obstructionist, pushing for an independence. During WWII Croats massacred Serbs in masse while establishing an independent Croatia. Post WWII, Tito disallowed nationalism in favor of brotherhood & unity. In 1974 he gave autonomy to Vojvodina & Kosovo. Croatia was given more political power. Serbs, the most populous ethnic group, felt threatened. In Kosovo, Albanians had their own schools & a university in their own language. With their newfound autonomy, they viewed Kosovo as their own and accelerated violence against Serbs there. In 1989 Slobo cracked down brutally on the Albanians. He knew this would win support of the Serbs. He reversed the 1974 privileges of many areas, Croatia included. He knew that Croatia & Slovenia wanted independence but fought it because 2 million Serbs would find themselves in states that tried to eradicate them. Milosevic played the nationalist to retain his grip on power. In the end he betrayed the Serbs like a true communist.

From CC: "Civil was is when all 3 sides are armed"

I agree. So explain to me why it is OK for your civilized Croats to kill close to 2000 unarmed civilians during Storm?

"people wanted revenge njegos, is it right, no..."

You may look at WWII as ancient history, but many Serbs in that region had fathers, mothers and grandparents slaughtered by Ustasha. So revenge works both ways.

"it is comments like the one you made earlier when Croats wonder why you think we can be civil and allow cirilica?"

Wrong again. Croats agreed to Cyrillic signs in areas with 30% plus Serb population because it was an EU requirement. Once in, they reneged. The gov't. that you Croats elected voted for it - now accept it.

You say Serbs in Dalmajtia & Slavonia initiated the war. That's comical. Leading up to Tudjman's election and after, Serbs were fired from jobs, had their property vandalized and many killed before any JNA troops rolled in. This is a fact. And you expected the Serbs to live in a new Croatia with no voice where Dinko Sakic of Jasenovac fame was invited back by your new president. Get real.

Croatia armed themselves for war. They broke international law and the constitution. War is a terrible thing. But Tudjman made that choice with the backing of the US & Germany. Serbs used everything at their disposal. What did you expect? Were war crimes committed? Yes. The difference is that Serbs have, and continue to prosecute theirs. When will Croatia do the same.

These Croats are nuts !

Daniel- tell me, when did a single Croat ever go fight in Serbia?

So what if no croat ever Went and fough in serbia? The serbs in Croatia fought for their homes, they lived there, they didnt come from Mars. And by the way Croatia was a part of another country called Yugoslavia if you already forgot that. As a croatian canadian your opinion is completely irrelevant, you never lived in Yugoslavia and you probably dont even speak the language.

Hey Zdravko - Did you see Novak Djokovic win the Sony Open in Miami over the weekend? I thought you said he's been losing like crazy? It only took him 1 hour and 23 minutes to beat Rafael Nadal of Spain.

Were any Croats in the tournament Zdravko? With all that athletic superiority that you boast about, I thought for sure one would have made it to the championship. But you were wrong again. You really need to get over that inferiority complex that you have. Life's too short.

"It's like having German signage in downtown Jerusalem- it would never happen or be accepted..."

Am I dreaming or did you just equate Croats with Jews and Serbs with German Nazis?

Hypocrisy overload.

Croatia once again displaying those German 'EU values'. Nothing ever changes, history just repeats itself.

Bob how dare you insult us Croatians we are not Slavs.
(Zdravko, 26 March 2014 03:36)

And yet you talk like Slavs, dress like Slavs, give yourself Slavic names, eat Slavic food, and live among other Slavic peoples.

So you're either in grotesque denial of the truth, or Croats are the absolute worst people people at preserving their racial purity since you therefore adopted the customs and mentality of Serbs. Bravo. You just made Croats out to be even more pathetic and inferior.

njegos - war crimes may have been committed, I just don't believe Gotovina had anything to do with them, my personal opinion.

you and I have come a long way from the name calling, I prefer to stay like this,I find it more productive.

in the end of all this njegos I still find that Croatia had every right to fight for Krajina, if you believe Serbs had a right to claim it as their own then that would fall into the "velika Srbija" column, a reason which justifies the way Croatians feel about Serbs in the region and as to why they don't want cirilica on the walls of a Croatian town, they don't want another situation where Serbs try to claim a town as part of "velika Srbija"!

remember when I explained to you about my family, how we have lived with the same Serbian family as our neighbors for a few generations? well, they immediately showed their true colors once JNA tanks and Serb militia attacked our town and they fought for Serbia in Croatia. If you feel Serbs should feel fear how do you expect Croats to feel...trust? Never knowing what your neighbor may do if another war in the region would break out? what would Serbs in a part of Srbija do if at any given moment they thought a minority group would rise to fight for their "motherland"...perhaps Kosovars? it makes the situation unstable, nobody likes to live beside somone they cannot trust!

Croatian Canadia - I don't dispute that Milosevic did very bad things. The difference in my view and yours is that I maintain he was a hard-core communist and not a Serb nationalist. He was out for his own gain and nothing more. He sacraficed Serbs in Krajina and in Bosnia. If he were a nationalist he wouldn't have tried to broker a deal with Tudjman in Bosnia and he wouldn't have abandoned the Krajina Serbs.

I also don't dispute that he manipulated things within the gov't. as you pointed out for his own gain and power. But where we also differ I suspect is with Tudjman. In my view, he was a true nationalist who had a vehement hatred of Serbs. His writings confirm that. His writings also confirm that he was a supporter of the former facist regime and had no tolerance for minorities. Most Croats view him as their father of independence. Serbs in Croatia viewed him as a threat. This shouldn't that hard to understand. Tudjman never wanted to use diplomacy and when he gained the support of the US & Germany, he realized he didn't have to. He could go to war, regardless of the cost.

I strongly feel that the US should have worked with the opposition in Serbia to get rid of Milosevic instead of supporting an illegal secession that everyone knew would be costly to all sides. The opposition to Milosevic was significant in Serbia and with western help, he could have been removed and war may have been avoided. That's my opinion.

Clearly Zdravko, Lenard, and Bam Bam have the lowest IQ in Europe. Zdravko can't even put a sentence together without major mistakes. Ever heard of periods, commas, paragraphs...etc? If you'e going to respond in the English language, then learn it dumba$$. Anyone who is proud of their Ustasha background is obviously repulsive, which includes a good portion of Croats - they have a major inferiority complex with Serbia as is on display here.
Hey Zdravko, what have you guys ever won in Basketball and Volleyball? Nothing. In water polo we spank you guys all the time, the head to head record is in Serbia's favour and we've won everything. The only sport you have a slight advantage is soccer, but the Serbian youth team just won the European Cup (which you never ever did), so the future looks bright and we'll soon surpass you there too :).
Watch and enjoy, it never gets old :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKsQuzL5aHs
Cheers!!

Zdravko - Divac took the flag from a Croatian fanatic because the fan was antagonizing Divac by holding the flag up in front of him and making anti-Serb comments after the Yugoslav team had won the world championship. Should Divac have ignored the idiot, probably. Dino Radja, a Croat teammate of Divac said himself that the story was blown out of proportion. But nutcases like you want to make a big deal of it.

"I am a proud Croat I'm proud of our beautiful beaches out beautiful music OUR NATIONAL ANTHEM our tourism our fishing industry and more than anything proud of being a descendent of the USTASHA too bad they didn't get a hold of you."

Are you also proud of your corruption,astronomical unemployment and national debt? All this after the west has poured billions into your country. And the Ustasha didn't get me, but you surely can try any time you feel up to it.

"You have 2 individuals to be proud of djokovic and Tesla woooooow!"

Here are just a few more: Michael Pupin, Pulitzer Prize Winner, Carl Malden, Actor, Lolita Davidavich, Actress, Anna Ivanovich & Jelana Jankovic, Tennis, Pete Maravich, NBA Hall of Fame, Helen Delich & George Voinovich, Politics, Willian Jovanovich, Publishing, Jeff Samardzia, Baseball, and I could go on and on. Oh, I almost forgot the most famous Serb of all: Draza Mihailovich, awarded the Legion of Merit by President Truman for saving more than 500 downed US airmen. Chew on that Zdravko!

From Croatian Canadian: "...why don't you bring NATO to the UN for war crimes if this is what apparently happened?"

There is no doubt that NATO committed war crimes, particularly with their bombing of Serbia during the Bosnia & Kosovo conflicts. Civilians were killed and bombs with depleted uranium were dropped. These are war crimes. But with regard to the Croatian conflict, the US & Germany violated the arms embargo by arming Croatia to the teeth and providing them with military intelligence that was used on a civilian population. You can pound your chest all you want about Operation Storm and celebrate it as a military victory, but in reality close to 2,000 Serbs were kiled, primarliy elderly civilains, women and children included. Then in the aftermath, Croatian soldiers burned, looted and killed many of the elderly Serbs who remained, most by slitting their throats.

I blame Milosevic for abandoning the Krajina Serbs and allowing these war crimes to take place. However, no real military expert would ever put this operation in the category of a military victory.

You claim no war crimes were committed because Gotovina & co. were acquitted. That's a rather shallow perspective. The fact remains 2,000 Serbs were killed. War crimes were committed. For the Hague and the west to find Croatians guilty would be to admit that they supported the wrong side in the war. If you think the Hague has been evenhanded and has meted out justice appropriately you are very naieve.

From CC: "Croatia had every right to fight for Krajina, if you believe Serbs had a right to claim it as their own then that would fall into the "velika Srbija" column."

The Greater Serbia claim was used by well-paid PR firms because it played well in the western press. Look at the facts though. Serbs have lived in Krajina for more than 500 yrs. Invited by the A-H Empire in return for military service well before present day borders were established. During WWII a Greater Croatia was created and Serbs were killed en masse. In 1992, Croatia declared independence and invited back WWII war criminals, renamed streets after Ustasha butchers, fired Serbs from their jobs, vandalized their homes and killed many well before any large scale fighting took place with the JNA. The Serbs only wanted to live on the land they had lived on for 500+ years in peace. The Serbs didn't break away. They found themselves living in a hostile environment overnight with no say whatsoever. What would you have done?

I don't dispute that the communist gov't, which may have been mostly Serb, discriminiated against Croats in your area. As I've explained, my family was also victims of that regime. But Croatia violated the constitution and international law by seceding prematuraly aided by the US & Germany.

War ensued. Vukovar was leveled. Thousands of Croats and Serbs were killed. Croatia asked for war and got it. Unfortunate, but diplomacy was never attempted.

These people are in the european Union !

From Croatian Canadian: "...seeing that Milosevic was taking control and representing the "SERBIAN BRANCH", once again...very telling..."

You conveniently leave out the fact that there was a "Croatian Branch" also. The fact is that in 1989, the communist blueprint that Tito had held together for so long, unraveled and the regime splintered along ethnic lines. This, by the way, is something that Croatians pushed for since their entry into the state in 1918. When Tudjman won the election in 1990, there was no turning back. His nationalistic ideology was embraced by the overwhelming majority of Croats. His racist comments and writings are well known. Croatia, with the aid of the US & Germany, armed themselves. They paid millions to MPRI, a US organization run by retired US military officials to make their armed forces state of the art. Croatia had no intention of ever trying to separate peacefully. They had no regard for the Serbs of Krajina who had been living there for centuries. They were purged from their jobs, homes were destroyed and many killed long before any JNA troops were there. I've said this before, but it bears repeating. Croatia wanted war. They got it. Don't cry about the results. Croatia is an independent country where Serbs were cleansed and RS is virtually independent where Croats were cleansed.

I've given you my opinion of Milosevic, but you've never given me yours on Tudjman. How exactly do you feel about the father of Croatian independence?

njegos- I respect your views and appreciate your tone, thanks....I don't think you intentionally believe you know best but sometimes you may forget that these wars happen on Croatian soil where the majority of those killed are Croats, where the buildings/houses/properties and infrastructure being destroyed are on in Croatian territory.

today Read a comment where you said: "Milosevic played the nationalist to retain his grip on power" ...and yet a few days ago you said Milosevic was not a Serb Nationalist...here: "I don't dispute that Milosevic did very bad things. The difference in my view and yours is that I maintain he was a hard-core communist and not a Serb nationalist."

you went on to say: From CC: "Civil was is when all 3 sides are armed"

I agree. So explain to me why it is OK for your civilized Croats to kill close to 2000 unarmed civilians during Storm?

"people wanted revenge njegos, is it right, no..."

You may look at WWII as ancient history, but many Serbs in that region had fathers, mothers and grandparents slaughtered by Ustasha. So revenge works both ways." - YES IT DOES....but the real question you didnt answer is why is it ok for "Serbs in Croatia left Sabor and declared the autonomy" - not their to secede! "They had no regard for the Serbs of Krajina who had been living there for centuries" - THE SERBS DECLARED AUTONOMY! ACT OF WAR?

why is it ok for Serbs to declare autonomy from Croatia but Croatia cannot from communist Yugoslavia?

njegos-"I agree. So explain to me why it is OK for your civilized Croats to kill close to 2000 unarmed civilians during Storm?"

going back to another question, you said Croatia illegally declared independence....Croatia first wanted autonomy, this was democratic and non aggressive considering the rest of Communist Europe fell while Milosevic was clearly setting his people in place to control all of Yugo!

njegos you said here: "You say Serbs in Dalmajtia & Slavonia initiated the war. That's comical."

is it really ? read this in the UN Tribunal court by the Serbian lawyer: "We were showing here that the crimes committed in eastern Slavonia were not genocide, but we did not hide the fact that these acts are crimes. We are not the type of people who celebrate crimes in Ovčara, Lovas or Skabrnja"!

one hand he denies genocide on the other...you and him differ in opinions. he says Serbs committed crimes on November 20, 1991 in Ovcara...notice the date...did Croats attack anyone by this date...also..."the villages were attacked by and later invaded by the Serbian forces. Lovas Croats (85.7%), with some Serbs (7.9%) and others (6.4%) October 10, 1991." DESTROYED!....AND On November 18, 1991, Serb paramilitaries, supported by the JNA, murdered the village of Skabrnja... mostly women and elderly.Skabrnja ethnically cleansed of its non-Serb population and annexed to the Republic of Serbian Krajina, remaining there until the Croatian forces reintegrated them back in 1995.

one thing I find interesting is that Serbs have great interest in the reactions of Croats during 90's...after Vukovar, Skabrnje, Dubrovnik and many other places....then you point to Oluja. The question you should be asking yourself is what would you have done if your towns were levelled, not a single person or animal alive...houses and buildings burned to the ground...from the hands of Serb militia and JNA!

you can hide behind the 'ol "Croatian PR" bs...but even the Serbian lawyer currently at the UN hearings admitted Serbs committed crimes...not diplomacy but pure and blatant crimes of war using force far more powerful than the civilians could handle!

and of course he takes away any sincerity by first claiming Serbs don't celebrate while Croats do...well, we celebrate the "victory" and not the crimes committed after!

"We were showing here that the crimes committed in eastern Slavonia were not genocide, but we did not hide the fact that these acts are crimes. We are not the type of people who celebrate crimes in Ovčara, Lovas or Skabrnja"

SURE...I see you Serbs on this site celebrating deaths of Croats daily!

From Croatian Canadian: "We were showing here that the crimes committed in eastern Slavonia were not genocide, but we did not hide the fact that these acts are crimes."

Again, Serbs did commit crimes. No one is disputing that. My point is Serbs were fired from their jobs, had their homes vandalized and many were murdered leading up to Tudjman's election and immediatetly after. Ustasha signs were reintroduced. Serbs responded. You would have too. Did Serbs go overboard in some areas? I'm sure they did. Civil wars are the worst.

We will never agree on who initiated the conflict, but tell me why was there virtually no violence when Slovenia, Montenegro & Macedonia broke away? The reason is very simple and is at the heart of the Serb - Croat issue. Serbs were targeted for genocide by the Ustasha. You may not like to hear it, but this played a big role in the war of the 90s. The Croatian gov't. has minimized these crimes and never formally apologized. The same was true in Bosnia where the Muslims eargerly fought with the Nazis to slaughter Serbs during WWII. It is only natural that Serbs would not want to live in a hostile environment. You keep saying Serbs are welcome in Croatia if they abide by Croatian laws. Your countrymen paint a very different picture.

"SURE...I see you Serbs on this site celebrating deaths of Croats daily!" I don't see this at all. But I do see Croatians (Bam,bam & Lenard, etc.) & Albanians (azir) celebrate Serbs deaths whenever they can.

Croatian Canadian - Now that we've gotten beyond the stone throwing you seem to be a decent human being. I've always said there are good and bad in all people. Loving your heritage and culture is a characteristic that I admire in anyone. Rabid fanaticism is something that is destructive and dangerous.

I'll admit, I don't know many Croatians. Those that I do are 2nd and 3rd generation and are more American than they are Croatian.

Just as I try not to paint people with a broad brush, I don't appreciate it when Serbs are painted with a broad brush as they have been by the west and the media regarding the conflicts of the 90s.

As I've said, there is much we won't agree on regarding the origins of the war, but everyone has a right to their opinions as long as they are expressed in a civil manner. On such a sensitive and divisive topic, emotions run high and things are said that shouldn't be said sometimes. It is human nature to defend your own and I will continue to do so as will you. But in the end, as you said, we are all just people.

njegos- "Croatia asked for war and got it. Unfortunate, but diplomacy was never attempted."

I copied this because I don't think you will accept my version:

"The representatives of Vojvodina, Kosovo and Montenegro were replaced with people loyal to Slobodan Milošević, who was at that time President of Serbia, by 1990. This way, Serbia secured four out of eight federal presidency votes and was able to heavily influence decision-making at the federal level, since all the other Yugoslav republics only had one vote. While Slovenia and Croatia wanted to allow a multi-party system, Serbia, led by Milošević, demanded an even more centralized federation and Serbia's dominant role in it"..."At the 14th Extraordinary Congress of the League of Communists of Yugoslavia in January 1990, the Serbian-dominated assembly agreed to abolish the single-party system; however, Slobodan Milošević, the head of the Serbian Party branch (League of Communists of Serbia) used his influence to block and vote-down all other proposals from the Croatian and Slovene party delegates. This prompted the Croatian and Slovene delegations to walk out and thus the break-up of the party, a symbolic event representing the end of "brotherhood and unity"....


you can say "But Croatia violated the constitution and international law by seceding prematuraly"...but Slobo was a nationalist that everyone knew was looking out for "velika Srbija"...even you know that!

BTW- Communism was falling all over Europe!

A law needs to be enacted... declaring that all people who offend, or try to offend, the Albanian Kosovar or Croatian nation are guilty of treason—a crime punishable by death. Eradication is the key. You can't negotiate with animals, they need to be slaughtered.
(Bam Bam, 28 March 2014 05:35)

And finally the veil comes off the little boy called "Bam Bam". I think you're living in the wrong country Mr. Bam Bam. Try Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, or North Korea. They're more up your alley.

And ask mommy to change your diaper because you obviously made a poo poo from getting so upset.

Daniel-"And by the way Croatia was a part of another country called Yugoslavia if you already forgot that. As a croatian canadian your opinion is completely irrelevant, you never lived in Yugoslavia and you probably dont even speak the language."

1) learn world history not Serbian history, Croatia has existed for centuries starting in the 7th although some say earlier!

2)I lived in and played professional soccer in the former Yugo...go preach to someone else!

njegos- Tudjman...he got Croatian its independence, so for that I recognize him. My personal opinions on his views....I don't like him, he was an irresponsible person who made very controversial and ignorant comments!

To Serbs in general. my opinion is if you live in another country then be invested in that nation emotionally, physically and with all intents to die for that country, not to have hopes you will one day rejoin the Yugo umbrella or Serbs from Beograd will work on a greater plan to bring to home as a part of velika Srbija! many Serbs joined Croatian forces and fought for Hrvatska, as it should be, today they are part of Croatia and the culture...the others will never be accepted, too much bad blood has been shed...one from Croatia's side and the other from Serbian side.

I will make this part clear! JASENOVAC WAS WRONG, ANTE PAVELIC DID WRONG, TUDJMAN WAS A TYPICAL POLITICIAN THAT DID LITTLE GOOD AND A LOT OF BAD!

njegos- 2000 victims is not ok, I disagree on killing any innocent people.

njegos-"I agree. So explain to me why it is OK for your civilized Croats to kill close to 2000 unarmed civilians during Storm?"

going back to another question, you said Croatia illegally declared independence....well, Croatia first wanted autonomy, this was democratic and non aggressive considering the rest of Communist Europe fell while Milosevic was clearly setting his people in place to control all of Yugo!

njegos you said here: "You say Serbs in Dalmajtia & Slavonia initiated the war. That's comical."

is it really ? read this in the UN Tribunal court by the Serbian lawyer: "We were showing here that the crimes committed in eastern Slavonia were not genocide, but we did not hide the fact that these acts are crimes. We are not the type of people who celebrate crimes in Ovčara, Lovas or Skabrnja"!

one hand he denies genocide on the other...you and him differ in opinions. he says Serbs committed crimes on November 20, 1991 in Ovcara...notice the date...did Croats attack anyone by this date...also..."the villages were attacked by and later invaded by the Serbian forces. Lovas Croats (85.7%), with some Serbs (7.9%) and others (6.4%) October 10, 1991." DESTROYED!....AND On November 18, 1991, Serb paramilitaries, supported by the JNA, murdered the village of Skabrnja...women and elderly.Skabrnja ethnically cleansed of its non-Serb population and annexed to the Republic of Serbian Krajina, remaining there until the Croatian forces reintegrated them back in 1995.

From Croatian Canadian: "today Read a comment where you said: "Milosevic played the nationalist to retain his grip on power" ...and yet a few days ago you said Milosevic was not a Serb Nationalist...here: "I don't dispute that Milosevic did very bad things. The difference in my view and yours is that I maintain he was a hard-core communist and not a Serb nationalist."

Let me explain what I meant. Milovevic 'played the nationalist,' meaning he would have played 'a green martian' if it would have helped him retain his power. He was a chameleon; he was whatever he had to be, and in the end he showed his true colors as a communist traitor. My opinion.

From Croatian Canadian: "....but the real question you didnt answer is why is it ok for "Serbs in Croatia left Sabor and declared the autonomy" - not their to secede! "They had no regard for the Serbs of Krajina who had been living there for centuries" - THE SERBS DECLARED AUTONOMY! ACT OF WAR?"

First, Croatia had autonomy as a result of the 1974 constitution and even the 1963 constitution. I could ask you the same thing, 'If it was OK for croats to have autonomy within Yugoslavia, why then shouildn't the Serbs have autonomy within Croatia?' In 1986, when the Serbs left the Sabor, there was increasing violence against Serbs in Kosovo. The nationalist element was growing in Croatia. Slovenia and Croatia both wanted more autonomy. In 1989 Slobo played on the fear of the Serbs. Did he go about it the right way? In my opinion, no. But I don't agree with the way any of the ethnic leaders, Milosevic, Tudjman & Izetbegovic conducted themselves during the conflicts. Again, my opinion.

But you're comparing apples to oranges when you talk about Serbs walking out of the Sabor in 1986 and Croatia seceding from a sovereign country, in violation of international law in 1991. That's a far, far stratch my friend.

Look, Croatia wanted independence. Did they go about it the right way? In my opinion, no. They were very insensetive to the Serbs who had been living there for centuries. Were the Serbs innocent in the whole mess? As I've said before, no.

njegos-we are doing well today...I'm glad to see it!

you said: "Look, Croatia wanted independence. Did they go about it the right way? In my opinion, no. They were very insensetive to the Serbs who had been living there for centuries. Were the Serbs innocent in the whole mess? As I've said before, no."

I do agree with all this, although I'm no historian I do believe in diplomacy, peace, working things out...but thats just me, I dont control the Croatian government!

I will say this...growing up I knew many Serb families and some Muslimane...during my time in Europe it seemed relatively normal amongst all 3 sides unless some nutsack got drunk and started calling people Ustase or Cetnici. the one difference I will tell you is that the Croatians I knew never had issues with Serbs, quite the contrary...but they had issues with not having Croatia, plain and simple! it had nothing to do whatsoever with any 1 person, it had everything to do with Croatians not having their identity...and in Yugoslavia that was all lost!

free a lion from his cage after he spends a lifetime in it and he'll kill you before you put him back in that cage!

I think this world will have more issues as long as people emigrate and don't accept their new home as their only home...Muslims all over the world have issues because they wont assimilate, Serbs in Croatia shouldn't live their if they don't accept Croatia 100%...just look at the issues in Germany, USA, Sweden...

njegos- "We will never agree on who initiated the conflict, but tell me why was there virtually no violence when Slovenia, Montenegro & Macedonia broke away?" - I think you're treading lightly with that comment...everybody declared independence from Serbia...should they now attack Orthodox as well...Slovenia...the European Community pressured Slovenia and Croatia to place a three-month moratorium on their independence...it doesnt matter to me who else and why...you are justifying and I wont fall into that!

njegos- Croatia has thousands of Serbian citizens...hardly ever any issue. those that were involved in conspiring during the war should never go back...those that are good citizens are the first I'd present with honorary citizen awards, I swear to God I would! Every Croatian I know, other thyan extreme idiots, are way far away from anti Serbs...and again, this I swear! I also see the nationalists (which I feel is ok to love your country and culture)and those that really make me puke...they have nothing but hatred, to those i dont know what I can say...I hope one day they realize we are all just people!

to love Croatia does not mean to hate Serbs...this would be ridiculous...we have to open the door to everything, as long as you respect mine...I'll respect yours!

njegos- everytime I go back to Croatia I meet Serbs, they are either someone's neighbor, married into a friend's family or just someone that has lived there for several generations. In several instances, I learn that the person is Serbian because I've asked or it was brought up, nobody knows or cares, thats the truth! I've seen it in Slavonija, Dalmacija, Lika and most of all in Zagreb...I think people on sites like this make it a big deal but it really isnt!

One of my closest friends lives in Zagreb, his father was an Ustasa, his entire family were....he grew up in Canada and one of his childhood friends was a Serbian kid...the odd thing about what many Serbians think vs how it is...his father was the most gentle person, never hated anyone and a very religious man. as I had mentioned to you before, when the majority of Ustase signed up they never did so to murder, it was for their right to freedom, thats how we perceive it. some young Croats salute (like Hitler), they glorify the wrongdoings...I was always taught that is disgraceful..."if you know who you are then you should accept others"...no need to hate anyone! when my friends father died 6 years ago, that Serbian kid (now 46) attended the funeral with his parents, with that said I have a hard time understanding the perception most Serbian people have!?!?

I will never go back to Mostar (where I played soccer), I heard it is completely divided...I just dont want to see hatred!