NATO troops "to remain in Kosovo"

One thing I will never understand: Why is it so hard for politicians to admit that their project of creating a democratic, free and multi-ethnic Kosovo totally failed? Instead, a mafia state ruled by local clan leader, former warlords and mafia bosses was established where ethnic hate is present in daily life everywhere.

Scientist and people in industry never have a problem to see that their idea was wrong, and they try something else to solve the problem. Only politicians are unable to do the same. Why?

They'ok still be there in 100 years.

NATO troops will remain in Kosovo because Serbia is a threat to all its neighbors. Overnight in Serbia fascists can come to power.

Although I do not have much confidence in NATO troops in Kosovo, for the Serbs, that is better to stay in Kosovo for some time. Tensions are very high, especially about fresh elections and creating a community of Serbian municipalities.

They'ok still be there in 100 years.
(Andy UK, 29 November 2013 15:52)

LOL yea in your dreams.

They're welcome to stay.

They'ok still be there in 100 years.
(Andy UK, 29 November 2013 15:52)

Therefore, Serbian boot is out of Kosova for next 100 years. I am all for it, and after 100 years, Serbia will shrink to its original size.

Nato has to stay there as long as Nato exists.

Therefore, Serbian boot is out of Kosova for next 100 years. I am all for it, and after 100 years, Serbia will shrink to its original size.

HAHAHAH Yes serbia will shrink to its original size that means vojvodina and sandzak will be free from serbia

One thing I will never understand: Why is it so hard for politicians to admit that their project of creating a democratic, free and multi-ethnic Kosovo totally failed? Instead, a mafia state ruled by local clan leader, former warlords and mafia bosses was established where ethnic hate is present in daily life everywhere.

Scientist and people in industry never have a problem to see that their idea was wrong, and they try something else to solve the problem. Only politicians are unable to do the same. Why?
(Comm. Parrisson, 29 November 2013 20:00)

I guess it is because it is still better than a mafia state under Serbia. Obviously perfection does not exist; but everything is relative to something else and there are worse options than a mafia state independent from Serbia.

Comm. Parrisson, 29 November 2013 20:00
There are several answers to your question.
1. They are not looking through glasses of hatred for anything Albanian.
2. They do not have the predisposed bias that they will never see anything positive in Kosovo.
3. In comparison of government on the Kosovo side and the Serbian side of the border, not a whole lot of difference. Do you really believe the crack down on corruption going on in Serbia is anything more than removing competing political adversaries(similar to what Putin is doing in Russia.
4. They do not take the voting in a community of a few hundred people and judge the whole country by it, especially when that election was repeated and international observers said the redo was right. How many times do you mention that in a week to show that elections are corrupt in Kosovo?? But you never mention the actual facts, like it was redone and it had zero effect on the outcome of the election.
5. They are looking at a brand new country that lived under corruption for so long no one knows different but they see progress being made.
6. True scientists look at outcomes and create a theory, you and others create a theory and look for outcomes to support it. In other words you only consider things that support your view and ignore anything that disputes it.
7. There are still too many international hands in the basket to judge Kosovo on its own merits.

NATO is leaving the middle east, which is a greater threat. Can all the albanians reading this site look at NATO's history, they will soon leave and the Serbs will fill the power vacuum. If you believe differently, I have some oceanfront property in Switzerland to sell you.

"Why is it so hard for politicians to admit that their project of creating a democratic, free and multi-ethnic Kosovo totally failed?"

Because that was never their intention in the first place - that was just something said to sell it to the people. Their real intention was to break up the former Yugoslavia into little ethnically pure or divided statelets and to occupy it with NATO/U.S. bases - all to make it easy to control and dictate to. All the Balkans peoples are their weak-state pawns.

"Their real intention was to break up the former Yugoslavia into little ethnically pure or divided statelets and to occupy it with NATO/U.S. bases - all to make it easy to control and dictate to. "
(ida, 2 December 2013 02:22)

Oh yeah, sure, because YU was so big, important and powerful that it could have endangered the real big countries and big powers in Europe like France, the UK, Germany, Italy and so on?

Ridiculous. Sorry, YU was small and unimportant before, no need to break it up. And there are enough US bases around in the region, no need for more. Please come up with some better arguments. The only reason European countries intervened was to stop amok-running extremist regimes in YU causing a flood of refugees all over Europe.

No, you should look in the mirror and ask yourself why other artificially created multi-ethnic countries like Czechoslovakia or the USSR managed to split without wars and YU didn't.

Comm. Parrisson

A very interesting post. However, everything in life is to do with alternatives. There is no doubt that Kosova has a lot of problems, be it social, political or economic. The alternative to a Kosova with these problems however (and given your posting history, one that you support) is a Kosmet that is run by Serbia and we saw what that means for the region. now, maybe you like seeing wars, ravaged villages, expelled people and what not, but I have no time for those. Not one person has ever been under the illusion that by year 5 of an independence that hasn't as of yet been fully consolidated, everything would be rosy. its still miles better though to what it was when Serbia ruled roost.

ad for NATO not leaving, its hardly news. Personally, I hope they never leave but I suspect that within 40-50 years they'll be gone

(Waiters, 4 December 2013 14:23)
Sorry bud you are way off course no inferiority complex here, not from Kosovo, not Albanian but I do know the history and part of the Milosevic plan to drive Albanians out of Kosovo was to shut down all jobs to Albanians, so any job to feed their families were illegal. And it did become a police state, this is part of history you can not camouflage, so don't even try.

Comm. Parrisson, 3 December 2013 12:39)
The really big problem is you are expecting Kosovo to be a success in a few months. It takes years, or decades for a country to become successful. Any new country formed from revolution institutes their leaders from war times to lead the country and they are usually not the best choices.(First US president Gen George Washington other than being the first president you really do not hear a lot about his accomplishments) War and leading society takes different strengths.
As far as mafias and corruption, if you remember thanks to the Serb regime the only jobs available in Kosovo were illegal ones. It is going to take time to break that. But on the corruption level Kosovo is already close to Serbia, what excuse do you give that, why do you not call Serbia a failed state??
It took 6 years for America to come up with and accept a constitution. It has only been 5 years since Kosovo declared independence and 1 since supervised independence has ended. If after about 25 years you see the same problems in Kosovo would be an appropriate time to call it a failed state.
I would worry more about the fate of Serbia, when you have one party using every available means to rid the power of any opposing party you should be seeing red flags. Look at the lives of people in one party systems.
I do agree that Kosovo will be better with new leadership but I say that about Serbia too.

Robert1899, 30 November 2013 13:21)
Many huge differences in the middle east and Kosovo.
The main one is that Kosovo and Serbia are deep rooted in NATO territory. To leave the Serbia and Kosovo region means more than abandoning the Albanians it means giving Russia a table on their own patio. NATO is going no where, Serbia is surrounded by NATO states they have a UNSC mandate that cannot be retracted against their will. With 3 NATO states having veto power on the UNSC. They are going no where. Also it is in their interest to keep down any expansionist visions of the Serbs until long after they are cemented into the EU and it is no longer possible.
If you truly believe NATO is leaving Kosovo, I will buy your property with a truckload of iron sulfate. (Fools gold)

Correction: Iron sulfide is fools gold not iron sulfate.

"7. There are still too many international hands in the basket to judge Kosovo on its own merits."
(Is that enough?, 2 December 2013 00:59)

True. So we agree without these international hands that provide at least some basic standards of democracy, law and order (like EULEX investigating against alleged war criminals that became politicians, one of them even an Ambassador of Kosovo, and so on) Kosovo could be judged differently?

Well, I fear, it could be judged even worse, maybe the corruption would be worse than in Albania (most corruput country in Europe).

About Kosovo's 'merits': Without the international hands, Kosovo wouldn't be only Europe's main fro drug distribution, but the world's main hub, or what do you mean with 'merits' the independent dream state of Kosovo has achieved under the Thaci regime?

As far as mafias and corruption, if you remember thanks to the Serb regime the only jobs available in Kosovo were illegal ones.

Wow!! talk about an inferiority complex, the Serbs are to blame for all the Albanians downfalls in Kosovo all the Croation problems tooo. Hmmmm, didn't the Albanians have autonomy from 74 to 89? What did they do with that autonomy? Receiving money from the state during that time. Veto power in Beograd? that too. Albanians in prominent positions in Kosovo? (please don't say it's not true). Did you vote, well not really, but the Serbs have to vote in Kosovo?????? As far as this regime bull, it wasn't a police state, were they incidents, sure, but Albanian enjoyed better rights that most minorities in the world. Listen, Stop and make a way for yourselves, but you can't!!! you always need help from a bigger entity. Believe me, keep leeching off the USA and soon the will be your bad guy!!!

NATO troops will remain in Kosovo because Serbia is a threat to all its neighbors. Overnight in Serbia fascists can come to power.

They'ok still be there in 100 years.
(Andy UK, 29 November 2013 15:52)

Therefore, Serbian boot is out of Kosova for next 100 years. I am all for it, and after 100 years, Serbia will shrink to its original size.

One thing I will never understand: Why is it so hard for politicians to admit that their project of creating a democratic, free and multi-ethnic Kosovo totally failed? Instead, a mafia state ruled by local clan leader, former warlords and mafia bosses was established where ethnic hate is present in daily life everywhere.

Scientist and people in industry never have a problem to see that their idea was wrong, and they try something else to solve the problem. Only politicians are unable to do the same. Why?

They'ok still be there in 100 years.

They'ok still be there in 100 years.
(Andy UK, 29 November 2013 15:52)

LOL yea in your dreams.

They're welcome to stay.

Nato has to stay there as long as Nato exists.

Although I do not have much confidence in NATO troops in Kosovo, for the Serbs, that is better to stay in Kosovo for some time. Tensions are very high, especially about fresh elections and creating a community of Serbian municipalities.

Robert1899, 30 November 2013 13:21)
Many huge differences in the middle east and Kosovo.
The main one is that Kosovo and Serbia are deep rooted in NATO territory. To leave the Serbia and Kosovo region means more than abandoning the Albanians it means giving Russia a table on their own patio. NATO is going no where, Serbia is surrounded by NATO states they have a UNSC mandate that cannot be retracted against their will. With 3 NATO states having veto power on the UNSC. They are going no where. Also it is in their interest to keep down any expansionist visions of the Serbs until long after they are cemented into the EU and it is no longer possible.
If you truly believe NATO is leaving Kosovo, I will buy your property with a truckload of iron sulfate. (Fools gold)

NATO is leaving the middle east, which is a greater threat. Can all the albanians reading this site look at NATO's history, they will soon leave and the Serbs will fill the power vacuum. If you believe differently, I have some oceanfront property in Switzerland to sell you.

One thing I will never understand: Why is it so hard for politicians to admit that their project of creating a democratic, free and multi-ethnic Kosovo totally failed? Instead, a mafia state ruled by local clan leader, former warlords and mafia bosses was established where ethnic hate is present in daily life everywhere.

Scientist and people in industry never have a problem to see that their idea was wrong, and they try something else to solve the problem. Only politicians are unable to do the same. Why?
(Comm. Parrisson, 29 November 2013 20:00)

I guess it is because it is still better than a mafia state under Serbia. Obviously perfection does not exist; but everything is relative to something else and there are worse options than a mafia state independent from Serbia.

Comm. Parrisson, 29 November 2013 20:00
There are several answers to your question.
1. They are not looking through glasses of hatred for anything Albanian.
2. They do not have the predisposed bias that they will never see anything positive in Kosovo.
3. In comparison of government on the Kosovo side and the Serbian side of the border, not a whole lot of difference. Do you really believe the crack down on corruption going on in Serbia is anything more than removing competing political adversaries(similar to what Putin is doing in Russia.
4. They do not take the voting in a community of a few hundred people and judge the whole country by it, especially when that election was repeated and international observers said the redo was right. How many times do you mention that in a week to show that elections are corrupt in Kosovo?? But you never mention the actual facts, like it was redone and it had zero effect on the outcome of the election.
5. They are looking at a brand new country that lived under corruption for so long no one knows different but they see progress being made.
6. True scientists look at outcomes and create a theory, you and others create a theory and look for outcomes to support it. In other words you only consider things that support your view and ignore anything that disputes it.
7. There are still too many international hands in the basket to judge Kosovo on its own merits.

"Why is it so hard for politicians to admit that their project of creating a democratic, free and multi-ethnic Kosovo totally failed?"

Because that was never their intention in the first place - that was just something said to sell it to the people. Their real intention was to break up the former Yugoslavia into little ethnically pure or divided statelets and to occupy it with NATO/U.S. bases - all to make it easy to control and dictate to. All the Balkans peoples are their weak-state pawns.

Therefore, Serbian boot is out of Kosova for next 100 years. I am all for it, and after 100 years, Serbia will shrink to its original size.

HAHAHAH Yes serbia will shrink to its original size that means vojvodina and sandzak will be free from serbia

Correction: Iron sulfide is fools gold not iron sulfate.

"7. There are still too many international hands in the basket to judge Kosovo on its own merits."
(Is that enough?, 2 December 2013 00:59)

True. So we agree without these international hands that provide at least some basic standards of democracy, law and order (like EULEX investigating against alleged war criminals that became politicians, one of them even an Ambassador of Kosovo, and so on) Kosovo could be judged differently?

Well, I fear, it could be judged even worse, maybe the corruption would be worse than in Albania (most corruput country in Europe).

About Kosovo's 'merits': Without the international hands, Kosovo wouldn't be only Europe's main fro drug distribution, but the world's main hub, or what do you mean with 'merits' the independent dream state of Kosovo has achieved under the Thaci regime?

As far as mafias and corruption, if you remember thanks to the Serb regime the only jobs available in Kosovo were illegal ones.

Wow!! talk about an inferiority complex, the Serbs are to blame for all the Albanians downfalls in Kosovo all the Croation problems tooo. Hmmmm, didn't the Albanians have autonomy from 74 to 89? What did they do with that autonomy? Receiving money from the state during that time. Veto power in Beograd? that too. Albanians in prominent positions in Kosovo? (please don't say it's not true). Did you vote, well not really, but the Serbs have to vote in Kosovo?????? As far as this regime bull, it wasn't a police state, were they incidents, sure, but Albanian enjoyed better rights that most minorities in the world. Listen, Stop and make a way for yourselves, but you can't!!! you always need help from a bigger entity. Believe me, keep leeching off the USA and soon the will be your bad guy!!!

"Their real intention was to break up the former Yugoslavia into little ethnically pure or divided statelets and to occupy it with NATO/U.S. bases - all to make it easy to control and dictate to. "
(ida, 2 December 2013 02:22)

Oh yeah, sure, because YU was so big, important and powerful that it could have endangered the real big countries and big powers in Europe like France, the UK, Germany, Italy and so on?

Ridiculous. Sorry, YU was small and unimportant before, no need to break it up. And there are enough US bases around in the region, no need for more. Please come up with some better arguments. The only reason European countries intervened was to stop amok-running extremist regimes in YU causing a flood of refugees all over Europe.

No, you should look in the mirror and ask yourself why other artificially created multi-ethnic countries like Czechoslovakia or the USSR managed to split without wars and YU didn't.

Comm. Parrisson

A very interesting post. However, everything in life is to do with alternatives. There is no doubt that Kosova has a lot of problems, be it social, political or economic. The alternative to a Kosova with these problems however (and given your posting history, one that you support) is a Kosmet that is run by Serbia and we saw what that means for the region. now, maybe you like seeing wars, ravaged villages, expelled people and what not, but I have no time for those. Not one person has ever been under the illusion that by year 5 of an independence that hasn't as of yet been fully consolidated, everything would be rosy. its still miles better though to what it was when Serbia ruled roost.

ad for NATO not leaving, its hardly news. Personally, I hope they never leave but I suspect that within 40-50 years they'll be gone

Comm. Parrisson, 3 December 2013 12:39)
The really big problem is you are expecting Kosovo to be a success in a few months. It takes years, or decades for a country to become successful. Any new country formed from revolution institutes their leaders from war times to lead the country and they are usually not the best choices.(First US president Gen George Washington other than being the first president you really do not hear a lot about his accomplishments) War and leading society takes different strengths.
As far as mafias and corruption, if you remember thanks to the Serb regime the only jobs available in Kosovo were illegal ones. It is going to take time to break that. But on the corruption level Kosovo is already close to Serbia, what excuse do you give that, why do you not call Serbia a failed state??
It took 6 years for America to come up with and accept a constitution. It has only been 5 years since Kosovo declared independence and 1 since supervised independence has ended. If after about 25 years you see the same problems in Kosovo would be an appropriate time to call it a failed state.
I would worry more about the fate of Serbia, when you have one party using every available means to rid the power of any opposing party you should be seeing red flags. Look at the lives of people in one party systems.
I do agree that Kosovo will be better with new leadership but I say that about Serbia too.

(Waiters, 4 December 2013 14:23)
Sorry bud you are way off course no inferiority complex here, not from Kosovo, not Albanian but I do know the history and part of the Milosevic plan to drive Albanians out of Kosovo was to shut down all jobs to Albanians, so any job to feed their families were illegal. And it did become a police state, this is part of history you can not camouflage, so don't even try.