More pro-fascist incidents in Croatian stadiums

I suppose "hajmo ustaše" is another 500 year old Croatian tradition that shouldn't be associated with the NDH, right? It's all just innocent love for the Homeland.

Most backward country in the Balkans.

Most backward country in the Balkans.
(Sieg Fail, 25 November 2013 15:32)

I'm not sure about that. The government is pushing for support for the Serbian minority and is miles ahead in terms of bureaucracy and euro-integration. Also, these types of fascistic displays are banned in Croatia.

You can't judge Croatia by American teenagers like Bambam posting on here, anymore than one could judge Serbia by angry Australian hobby Serbs posting on this site either.

You can't judge Croatia by American teenagers like Bambam posting on here, anymore than one could judge Serbia by angry Australian hobby Serbs posting on this site either.
(Danilo, 25 November 2013 16:56)

That may very well be true, but they tend to the loudest in the crowd and the ones most often likely to set the tone and the image for the entire group.

Za dom embarrassment.

Seems to me that ugly face of Croatia, hidden away in the cellar for so many decades, wants to show itself to the world once more.

Yugoslavia had never properly dealt with the traumas of the World War 2, because of the enforced amnesia and obfuscation of the Tito regime, once this passed along with the death of the old dictator, the old fears, hatreds and injustices began to surface and vent themselves in civil war.

Croatia, free from the restraints of Yugoslavia, must now face itself and deal with the fascism and racism still eating away at the heart of its sense of self. I expect there will be a great deal of turmoil in the coming months in Croatia as they struggle to deal with what it means to be a Croat. There can only be one winner, in today's world ethnic hatred is not tolerated.

For a mark of how deep the problem is, one might look at the common and what appears to be accepted argument among most Croats regarding that 'homeland' trip they are on: 'we are celebrating our nation and if you don't like it you can go and live somewhere else'. In the UK and Western Europe anyone with such a point of view is frowned upon by the rest of society and considered an ignorant racist.

Croatia I fear has a long and difficult road ahead before it can finally bury its black uniformed Ustasha monster.

JUST FORGET ABOUT IT AND GET ON WITH YOUR LIVES! Maybe some of those offensive Croats are just attention seekers, and you are actually doing them a favor by not ignoring them. This is just my input, and I am a Croat... i see the same thing here in america with political correctness crap... because the government treats individuals differently according to race, gender, etc.. it divides people even more and turns them more against each other... just forget the media and politicians

Mario - You claim that Serbs lie about history, but offer no evidence. It is difficult to discuss anything with you because you hurl insults and a form of revisionist history that is not based in facts.

Since you claim that the Serb version of history conflicts with everyone else's, here are some historical facts that even YOU will have trouble denying: Serbs fought on the side of the US and other democracies during WWI & WWII while Croats fought for Axis powers. Serbs started the first resistance movement (Chetniks) to fight the Germans in WWII. Croats embraced Hitler's Nazis and were the first and only ones to set up concentration camps for children. Serbs saved over 500 downed US airmen during WWII while Croats were fighting the US. Croats broke the Yugoslav constitution and violated international law by prematurely seceding thereby bringing on the war of the 90s. Croats welcomed back WWII war criminals (Dink Sakic, commander of Jasenovac) to the newly independent Croatia. Streets were renamed after Croat WWII war criminals. Croatia is in violation of their own constitution & EU requirements by not allowing Cyrillic usage in areas of Croatia populated by 35% or more Serbs. We'll start with that for now Mario. After I'm finished with you, you'll wish you were Italian.

(Bam Bam, 26 November 2013 01:29)
Yes clubs like Yugal were funded by the Yugoslav government, but you Croats had problems with everyone whether they were Greek or Italian football clubs – your lot exhibited hooliganism behaviour at a time when it was unheard of in Australia.
So in the end the Australians eliminated all names like Croatia this or that. However, the Serbs still have clubs called White Eagles or White City.
By the time we are finished with Croats you guys will wish you were never born. You should have seen Zoran Milanovic’s face when the Chinese told him that Croatia will not get a cent of investment because it “has not adopted EU laws/standards”. This means your a pack of racists and they will never invest in Croatia – same goes for all EU countries.
Keep up the good work.

This behavior of Croatian football fans is just a reflection of weakness and lack of Croatia's desire to break with its fascist past. The lack of official reaction Croatia confirms my position. I'm more concerned that this behavior is supported by individuals from Europe, which is reprehensible.

You can't judge Croatia by American teenagers like Bambam posting on here, anymore than one could judge Serbia by angry Australian hobby Serbs posting on this site either.
(Danilo, 25 November 2013 16:56)
================================
We are not judging Croatia by the likes of Bam Bam or Lenard but by what's happening over there.
Here is your proof Danilo. What more do you need?
Have Bam Bam and Lenard cloned themselves by thousands of times and are not shouting these slogans?

As far as being banned, well we can see how that's going.

Would you call this minority of Croatians feeling this way or majority?

@sj

It was you Serbs who kept causing trouble with your UDBA funded Footscary JUST and YUGEL. Like I keep saying if there were no Chetniks in Croatia there would be no right wing. Go home to Serbia where you belong. Stop spreading your cancer in our homeland.

The irony here is that Croatia will pay its fines with the euros that were given to them upon entering the EU. Euros, which have Cyrillic writing on them, I might add. I have yet to see a Croat give back one euro because it has the 'offensive' writing of their arch enimies. Shameful!

So I really do not understand on what basis you rave here against Croatians? Based on the Croatian minister in Belgrade that has seen burning Croatian flags, or banner signs written on them "Vukovar is Serbia" in Cyrillic, which probably Croatian minister has a hearing problem and did not hear'' kill Ustasha , kill Croats so Šiptar does not have a brother'' and then'' slogan "Vukovar is Serbiar'' and after that'' Chetniks'' then "Send us salads, there will be meat, there will be meat, we will slaughter Croats!" Interesting! Would you like I continue?

Mario - Please show me where any of my posts reflect hatred. Instead, my posts state facts after you and other revisionists on this site try to rewrite history.

Go back and read some of the things you have written on this site. If anybody is filled with hatred, it is you.

Please provide some insight to your Italian name please. I've asked this before, but you keep running away. Is your family from Istria and were forced to call themselves Croats? Or perhaps you're simply a Croat who wants to be Italian. If it's the latter, I fully understand.

Actually, I was a bit confused about a certain point. I didn't realize that this took place in Zagreb. I thought it had taken place in another country.

Peggy, have you ever been in Serbia during a football match? I guarantee, you've never seen so many police in your life.

The lowest of lowlifes attend football matches in Serbia and it doesn't surprise me one bit that the same is true in Zagreb.

At the end of the day, however, all of the former Yugo faces similar societal problems.

I find it a paradox that present day Dalmatians support Ustashi when it was the Ustashi that sold out Dalmatia to Italy. Perhaps they should understand that a vast majority of Dalmatians were Partizans and now their offspring are singing about Pavelic at football games, what morons. Lucky for tourism for 4 months of the year or otherwise they would starve due to the lack of will to get off their backs and work.

The recent backlash against "For Home - Ready" reminds me of the backlash against the Croatian flag and the introduction of the Kuna (Croatian Currency). What's really unfortunate is this campaign is being launched by pro-Yugoslav sympathizers in the Croatian Government. People on this forum should realize that Serbs marched with Croats into battle against the Turks/Hungarians under essentially the same slogan (For Home - Ready to Die). That of course was during the days of the Austrian Military border under the command of Viceroy (Ban) Josip Jelacic in the 19th century. The phrase dates back at least to the 17th century by Pavao Vitezovic. I will agree the phrase is controversial based on its use of the Ustashi, but again, the phrase used during WWII was "To Poglavnik and home - ready." Labeling the phrase in and of itself fascist or pro-nazi is wrong. Over 20 years has passed since the Yugoslav wars, it's time to stop this war of propaganda and start fostering better relations between the former Yugoslav peoples and republics.

(mario, 26 November 2013 18:42)
When did Croatia acquire Vukovar? Or perhaps Dubrovnik? Please give us the full details of the wars, battles negotiated settlements etc. that Croats fought to acquire this territory?

Peggy, have you ever been in Serbia during a football match? I guarantee, you've never seen so many police in your life.
========================
No I haven't but then I have never been to a soccer match anywhere nor would I.
Your point being?
Have you ever been to a soccer match in England when they burn the stadium?
What point were you trying to make?

I find it a paradox that present day Dalmatians support Ustashi when it was the Ustashi that sold out Dalmatia to Italy.
(Miso, 26 November 2013 09:56)

That's the reason why the largest percentage of inbred Croatian "patriotism" outside Sydney or Chicago lies in Dalmatia. But no one ever said "patriotism" is synonymous with intelligence. Bam Bam and Lenard duke it out all the time for who's the bigger cyber idiot :)

Za dom fail.

"I find it a paradox that present day Dalmatians support Ustashi when it was the Ustashi that sold out Dalmatia to Italy."

Didn't Tudjman do some "engineering" with Croats by settling some of the most radical in formerly the more tolerant places in Croatia. For example, he is said to have done this in Split, so maybe he did it in Dalmatia too. And therefore those in Dalmatia who are fascist leaning did not have ancestors from there dating back to WWII, but instead were from Herzegovina or other parts of Bosnia or Croatia which were Ustasha hotbeds.

Until Croatia suffers serious penalties and sanction from the West this Nazi behavior will not only continue but will grow. Croatia has never apologized of even admitted the scale of the genocide committed in the NDH in World War II. Serbs are today considered the true villains and not the Ustasha who committed the crimes.

But what is most galling is the the Serbian government is silent. Why? Thank God for the Jewish organizations who are the only people on earth who actively protest this evil.

I feel a bit uncomfortable when people use words like “fascist” or ‘barbarian” the way they use them. Fascism is an Italian invention and it has little to do with Nazism. Those were the Nazi who killed the people and whole peoples. And it has nothing to do with the fascists who were very bad warriors and never had concentration camps , never too part in massacres of the civilians never took part in Holocaust ect. Besides during the 22 years of their rule in Italy they have sentenced to death only 9 persons. So I believe we have to be correct and never mix fascism and Nazism.

Stranger wrote: "[Italian fascists] never had concentration camps , never too part in massacres of the civilians never took part in Holocaust ect."

Stranger, you better learn about history. Fascist Italy murdered masses of people in Ethiopia and Libyans on concentration camps. And they had camps in Italy as well.

I'm so sick of Balkan fascism, Serbian, Croatian, whatever. Time to learn a better set of values, ppl...

Roberto frisco

Olli

There’s official statistics that says during Benito’s rule inside Italy only 9 men were executed within 22 years. Also Duce declared all the Italian Jews as Italians so during the WW2 Italy was the safest place for them. All other countries but the USSR have betrayed their Jewish citizens. Yes outside their own country the Italians were not gentlemen. And they were punished enough in Russia in Yugoslavia in Abyssinia ect. So I am not here to justify them somehow. But the truth is that we don’t have to mix fascism that in fact was a nationalistic movement with the Nazism that was a Evil ideology. One was bad while the other was just horrible. But people keep on using word “fascism” instead “Nazism”. That’s what I meant and nothing else. Also I am not an Italian or a Jew.

sj--A lot, lot, lot longer before you become Cetnik! Croats did not need to fight for it go to war for Vukovar or Dubrovnik or acquire it those were our cities. Croats did not need to drive away or kill anyone for these cities those were Croats cities. Not like what you Srbs have done in Zemun, Vojvodina, Sandak, Crna Gora(Montenegro) and…

njegos and ssj I answer to all your comments but b92 sensors me and deletes me even if I do not curse or insult anyone. Then ask them b92 not me why I do not you answer you.

For sj i answerd--A lot, lot, lot longer before you become Cetnik! Croats did not need to fight for it go to war for Vukovar or Dubrovnik or acquire it those were our cities. Croats did not need to drive away or kill anyone for these cities those were Croats cities. Not like what you Srbs have done in Zemun, Vojvodina, Sandak, Crna Gora(Montenegro) and…

for you njegos--Mario is a popular Croatian name because of the mountain Marijan where many Croats brave died in the defense of Croatian and has never ended up in the hand of the enemies. I will ask you something why the Serbian history always opposit of whole worlds history? why are Serbs lying about everyone and everything?

njegos---did you understand what "The irony" is. pull yourself together from the hatred that you wear on your sleeve and think and then say something human.

Most backward country in the Balkans.
(Sieg Fail, 25 November 2013 15:32)

I'm not sure about that. The government is pushing for support for the Serbian minority and is miles ahead in terms of bureaucracy and euro-integration. Also, these types of fascistic displays are banned in Croatia.

You can't judge Croatia by American teenagers like Bambam posting on here, anymore than one could judge Serbia by angry Australian hobby Serbs posting on this site either.

I suppose "hajmo ustaše" is another 500 year old Croatian tradition that shouldn't be associated with the NDH, right? It's all just innocent love for the Homeland.

Most backward country in the Balkans.

Until Croatia suffers serious penalties and sanction from the West this Nazi behavior will not only continue but will grow. Croatia has never apologized of even admitted the scale of the genocide committed in the NDH in World War II. Serbs are today considered the true villains and not the Ustasha who committed the crimes.

But what is most galling is the the Serbian government is silent. Why? Thank God for the Jewish organizations who are the only people on earth who actively protest this evil.

The recent backlash against "For Home - Ready" reminds me of the backlash against the Croatian flag and the introduction of the Kuna (Croatian Currency). What's really unfortunate is this campaign is being launched by pro-Yugoslav sympathizers in the Croatian Government. People on this forum should realize that Serbs marched with Croats into battle against the Turks/Hungarians under essentially the same slogan (For Home - Ready to Die). That of course was during the days of the Austrian Military border under the command of Viceroy (Ban) Josip Jelacic in the 19th century. The phrase dates back at least to the 17th century by Pavao Vitezovic. I will agree the phrase is controversial based on its use of the Ustashi, but again, the phrase used during WWII was "To Poglavnik and home - ready." Labeling the phrase in and of itself fascist or pro-nazi is wrong. Over 20 years has passed since the Yugoslav wars, it's time to stop this war of propaganda and start fostering better relations between the former Yugoslav peoples and republics.

njegos and ssj I answer to all your comments but b92 sensors me and deletes me even if I do not curse or insult anyone. Then ask them b92 not me why I do not you answer you.

For sj i answerd--A lot, lot, lot longer before you become Cetnik! Croats did not need to fight for it go to war for Vukovar or Dubrovnik or acquire it those were our cities. Croats did not need to drive away or kill anyone for these cities those were Croats cities. Not like what you Srbs have done in Zemun, Vojvodina, Sandak, Crna Gora(Montenegro) and…

for you njegos--Mario is a popular Croatian name because of the mountain Marijan where many Croats brave died in the defense of Croatian and has never ended up in the hand of the enemies. I will ask you something why the Serbian history always opposit of whole worlds history? why are Serbs lying about everyone and everything?

Seems to me that ugly face of Croatia, hidden away in the cellar for so many decades, wants to show itself to the world once more.

Yugoslavia had never properly dealt with the traumas of the World War 2, because of the enforced amnesia and obfuscation of the Tito regime, once this passed along with the death of the old dictator, the old fears, hatreds and injustices began to surface and vent themselves in civil war.

Croatia, free from the restraints of Yugoslavia, must now face itself and deal with the fascism and racism still eating away at the heart of its sense of self. I expect there will be a great deal of turmoil in the coming months in Croatia as they struggle to deal with what it means to be a Croat. There can only be one winner, in today's world ethnic hatred is not tolerated.

For a mark of how deep the problem is, one might look at the common and what appears to be accepted argument among most Croats regarding that 'homeland' trip they are on: 'we are celebrating our nation and if you don't like it you can go and live somewhere else'. In the UK and Western Europe anyone with such a point of view is frowned upon by the rest of society and considered an ignorant racist.

Croatia I fear has a long and difficult road ahead before it can finally bury its black uniformed Ustasha monster.

@sj

It was you Serbs who kept causing trouble with your UDBA funded Footscary JUST and YUGEL. Like I keep saying if there were no Chetniks in Croatia there would be no right wing. Go home to Serbia where you belong. Stop spreading your cancer in our homeland.

(Bam Bam, 26 November 2013 01:29)
Yes clubs like Yugal were funded by the Yugoslav government, but you Croats had problems with everyone whether they were Greek or Italian football clubs – your lot exhibited hooliganism behaviour at a time when it was unheard of in Australia.
So in the end the Australians eliminated all names like Croatia this or that. However, the Serbs still have clubs called White Eagles or White City.
By the time we are finished with Croats you guys will wish you were never born. You should have seen Zoran Milanovic’s face when the Chinese told him that Croatia will not get a cent of investment because it “has not adopted EU laws/standards”. This means your a pack of racists and they will never invest in Croatia – same goes for all EU countries.
Keep up the good work.

njegos---did you understand what "The irony" is. pull yourself together from the hatred that you wear on your sleeve and think and then say something human.

I find it a paradox that present day Dalmatians support Ustashi when it was the Ustashi that sold out Dalmatia to Italy. Perhaps they should understand that a vast majority of Dalmatians were Partizans and now their offspring are singing about Pavelic at football games, what morons. Lucky for tourism for 4 months of the year or otherwise they would starve due to the lack of will to get off their backs and work.

The irony here is that Croatia will pay its fines with the euros that were given to them upon entering the EU. Euros, which have Cyrillic writing on them, I might add. I have yet to see a Croat give back one euro because it has the 'offensive' writing of their arch enimies. Shameful!

I'm so sick of Balkan fascism, Serbian, Croatian, whatever. Time to learn a better set of values, ppl...

Roberto frisco

You can't judge Croatia by American teenagers like Bambam posting on here, anymore than one could judge Serbia by angry Australian hobby Serbs posting on this site either.
(Danilo, 25 November 2013 16:56)

That may very well be true, but they tend to the loudest in the crowd and the ones most often likely to set the tone and the image for the entire group.

Za dom embarrassment.

Peggy, have you ever been in Serbia during a football match? I guarantee, you've never seen so many police in your life.
========================
No I haven't but then I have never been to a soccer match anywhere nor would I.
Your point being?
Have you ever been to a soccer match in England when they burn the stadium?
What point were you trying to make?

This behavior of Croatian football fans is just a reflection of weakness and lack of Croatia's desire to break with its fascist past. The lack of official reaction Croatia confirms my position. I'm more concerned that this behavior is supported by individuals from Europe, which is reprehensible.

I find it a paradox that present day Dalmatians support Ustashi when it was the Ustashi that sold out Dalmatia to Italy.
(Miso, 26 November 2013 09:56)

That's the reason why the largest percentage of inbred Croatian "patriotism" outside Sydney or Chicago lies in Dalmatia. But no one ever said "patriotism" is synonymous with intelligence. Bam Bam and Lenard duke it out all the time for who's the bigger cyber idiot :)

Za dom fail.

JUST FORGET ABOUT IT AND GET ON WITH YOUR LIVES! Maybe some of those offensive Croats are just attention seekers, and you are actually doing them a favor by not ignoring them. This is just my input, and I am a Croat... i see the same thing here in america with political correctness crap... because the government treats individuals differently according to race, gender, etc.. it divides people even more and turns them more against each other... just forget the media and politicians

You can't judge Croatia by American teenagers like Bambam posting on here, anymore than one could judge Serbia by angry Australian hobby Serbs posting on this site either.
(Danilo, 25 November 2013 16:56)
================================
We are not judging Croatia by the likes of Bam Bam or Lenard but by what's happening over there.
Here is your proof Danilo. What more do you need?
Have Bam Bam and Lenard cloned themselves by thousands of times and are not shouting these slogans?

As far as being banned, well we can see how that's going.

Would you call this minority of Croatians feeling this way or majority?

So I really do not understand on what basis you rave here against Croatians? Based on the Croatian minister in Belgrade that has seen burning Croatian flags, or banner signs written on them "Vukovar is Serbia" in Cyrillic, which probably Croatian minister has a hearing problem and did not hear'' kill Ustasha , kill Croats so Šiptar does not have a brother'' and then'' slogan "Vukovar is Serbiar'' and after that'' Chetniks'' then "Send us salads, there will be meat, there will be meat, we will slaughter Croats!" Interesting! Would you like I continue?

(mario, 26 November 2013 18:42)
When did Croatia acquire Vukovar? Or perhaps Dubrovnik? Please give us the full details of the wars, battles negotiated settlements etc. that Croats fought to acquire this territory?

sj--A lot, lot, lot longer before you become Cetnik! Croats did not need to fight for it go to war for Vukovar or Dubrovnik or acquire it those were our cities. Croats did not need to drive away or kill anyone for these cities those were Croats cities. Not like what you Srbs have done in Zemun, Vojvodina, Sandak, Crna Gora(Montenegro) and…

Mario - Please show me where any of my posts reflect hatred. Instead, my posts state facts after you and other revisionists on this site try to rewrite history.

Go back and read some of the things you have written on this site. If anybody is filled with hatred, it is you.

Please provide some insight to your Italian name please. I've asked this before, but you keep running away. Is your family from Istria and were forced to call themselves Croats? Or perhaps you're simply a Croat who wants to be Italian. If it's the latter, I fully understand.

Mario - You claim that Serbs lie about history, but offer no evidence. It is difficult to discuss anything with you because you hurl insults and a form of revisionist history that is not based in facts.

Since you claim that the Serb version of history conflicts with everyone else's, here are some historical facts that even YOU will have trouble denying: Serbs fought on the side of the US and other democracies during WWI & WWII while Croats fought for Axis powers. Serbs started the first resistance movement (Chetniks) to fight the Germans in WWII. Croats embraced Hitler's Nazis and were the first and only ones to set up concentration camps for children. Serbs saved over 500 downed US airmen during WWII while Croats were fighting the US. Croats broke the Yugoslav constitution and violated international law by prematurely seceding thereby bringing on the war of the 90s. Croats welcomed back WWII war criminals (Dink Sakic, commander of Jasenovac) to the newly independent Croatia. Streets were renamed after Croat WWII war criminals. Croatia is in violation of their own constitution & EU requirements by not allowing Cyrillic usage in areas of Croatia populated by 35% or more Serbs. We'll start with that for now Mario. After I'm finished with you, you'll wish you were Italian.

Actually, I was a bit confused about a certain point. I didn't realize that this took place in Zagreb. I thought it had taken place in another country.

Peggy, have you ever been in Serbia during a football match? I guarantee, you've never seen so many police in your life.

The lowest of lowlifes attend football matches in Serbia and it doesn't surprise me one bit that the same is true in Zagreb.

At the end of the day, however, all of the former Yugo faces similar societal problems.

I feel a bit uncomfortable when people use words like “fascist” or ‘barbarian” the way they use them. Fascism is an Italian invention and it has little to do with Nazism. Those were the Nazi who killed the people and whole peoples. And it has nothing to do with the fascists who were very bad warriors and never had concentration camps , never too part in massacres of the civilians never took part in Holocaust ect. Besides during the 22 years of their rule in Italy they have sentenced to death only 9 persons. So I believe we have to be correct and never mix fascism and Nazism.

Stranger wrote: "[Italian fascists] never had concentration camps , never too part in massacres of the civilians never took part in Holocaust ect."

Stranger, you better learn about history. Fascist Italy murdered masses of people in Ethiopia and Libyans on concentration camps. And they had camps in Italy as well.

Olli

There’s official statistics that says during Benito’s rule inside Italy only 9 men were executed within 22 years. Also Duce declared all the Italian Jews as Italians so during the WW2 Italy was the safest place for them. All other countries but the USSR have betrayed their Jewish citizens. Yes outside their own country the Italians were not gentlemen. And they were punished enough in Russia in Yugoslavia in Abyssinia ect. So I am not here to justify them somehow. But the truth is that we don’t have to mix fascism that in fact was a nationalistic movement with the Nazism that was a Evil ideology. One was bad while the other was just horrible. But people keep on using word “fascism” instead “Nazism”. That’s what I meant and nothing else. Also I am not an Italian or a Jew.

"I find it a paradox that present day Dalmatians support Ustashi when it was the Ustashi that sold out Dalmatia to Italy."

Didn't Tudjman do some "engineering" with Croats by settling some of the most radical in formerly the more tolerant places in Croatia. For example, he is said to have done this in Split, so maybe he did it in Dalmatia too. And therefore those in Dalmatia who are fascist leaning did not have ancestors from there dating back to WWII, but instead were from Herzegovina or other parts of Bosnia or Croatia which were Ustasha hotbeds.