Acquitted ex-chiefs of state security return to Belgrade

Croatian media have reported that the Tribunal’s decision is “grotesque” and that “the Hague Tribunal has amnestied Slobodan Milošević”.

Yes, just as 'grotesque' as setting free the two Croatian generals who, of course, were not responsible for the killing and expelling of 1000s during the operation storm.

The NATO court is a joke. One political decision after another. Does anyone respect this farce?

What is "grotesque" is that these 2 innocent gentlemen were in tribunal custody for 10 years. They should sue the tribunal for false imprisonment!

"But hey, one good injustice deserves another. Stanisic is as innocent as Gotovina so if one goes free then... "
(bganon, 31 May 2013 14:25)
Maybe to add, as innocent as Limaj and Hardadinaj and some more.

"I'd be happier if both went to jail though. It would appear that as well as everybody else giving up on the Hague's idea of justice, the Hague itself is counting the days until its own demise."
(bganon, 31 May 2013 14:25)

It's more and more obvious that a court on war crimes which works like a ordinary court with the premise of 'innocent until 100% proven guilty' doesn't work. I think The Hague might have set free German Adolf and Goebbels, because they personally didn't kill anyone (except themselves ;-) and no one can proof a straight command line showing that he is responsible for killing million of Jews.

Winston I know from good authority that Stanisic visited Knin on a number of occasions in that period and directed Croatian Serb leaders. To what extent they followed his 'advice' is another matter.

But hey, one good injustice deserves another. Stanisic is as innocent as Gotovina so if one goes free then...
I'd be happier if both went to jail though. It would appear that as well as everybody else giving up on the Hague's idea of justice, the Hague itself is counting the days until its own demise.

Stanisic is as innocent as Gotovina so if one goes free then...
(bganon, 31 May 2013 14:25)

Yep. Gotovina's acquittal set a new precedent, so I really can't see Croats complaining about anything "grotesque". Throw in Haradinaj's two mistrials and the ICTY is an all around joke.

now all the other mass murderers can return to blgd and banja luka, for a true 'hero's welcome'...

roberto
(roberto, 31 May 2013 18:29)

and Zagreb as well.

Good about time Serbs are released, all they did was defend their land and people. The Hague court should be shutdown..one of the most biased courts in history of the justice systems...

That's the third Croat to be acquitted in rather controversial circumstances. Firstly with Gotovina and Markac and now Simatovic from the Serb/YU side.

The Hague Court has long been a joke. International justice if you can call it that, seems to be meted out randomly and in terms of political point scoring, to try and even things up a bit. Karadzic, Mladic and the six Bosnian Croats who were sentenced this week should demand a retrial in a different court. They deserve it.

Peace and reconciliation? Not by a long shot.

An absolute farce. Wrap the whole thing up.

now all the other mass murderers can return to blgd and banja luka, for a true 'hero's welcome'...
(roberto, 31 May 2013 18:29)

Oh roberto, forever trying to make a point. First, if there's any mass murders returning to "blgd" (can you not even cough up the courage to spell the name of a city you viscerally despise?), it's evening out the amount of mass murderers who already reside in Zagreb, Sarajevo, and your beloved Pristina. Second, no one knows how to give a "hero's welcome" to war criminals better than Croats and Albanians who are actually convinced their side was fighting a noble fight, whereas Serbs are one of the only ones who would debate what happened in the 1990s.

The NATO court is a joke. One political decision after another. Does anyone respect this farce?
(Zoran, 31 May 2013 14:11)

Yes, when Serbs get sentenced then it is political. When they get set free, it is political. LOL..

"Yes, when Serbs get sentenced then it is political. When they get set free, it is political. LOL.."
(John, 31 May 2013 15:11)

Hey, isn't it an improvement that even Zoran sees the release of these two alleged war criminals as being a purely 'political' move? I, for myself, expected him to defend them, calling them heroes and defenders, and claiming they were innocent.

The Hague Tribunal determined that they were not guilty of directing, organizing, equipping, training, arming and financing units of the Serbian State Security Service which murdered, persecuted, deported and forcibly transferred non-Serb civilians in Bosnia-Herzegovina. - Then who did? If the ones in charge are not guilty, who is? These two guys make Seselj look like a boy scout, and poor Mr. Seselj is still behind bars. Lots of funny stuff coming out of the Hague recently.

It really seems that BiH has indeed the only victim and the only perpetrator of everything that happened 1992 - 1995 in its country. So Bosnians (of all ethnic background) shot themselves, sent themselves to concentration camps, raped themselves, pillaged each others' homes all without any interference from Serbia and with only minor interference from Croatia. It appears that Serbia's Milosevic regime is as guilty as Japan and that Croatia sort of had something to do in Bosnia's war but only really the dead guys were to blame (too bad they are dead)...Really strange stuff coming out of Hague...Oh yes and Serbs evicted themselves from Croatia also...I would not be surprised if Karadzic and Mladic get acquitted...

Crazy week at the ICTY. The Jovica-Frenki acquittal has the Croats freaking out about a Milosevic amnesty, and this comes just a couple days after Tudjman is implicated in a Croatian joint criminal enterprise in BiH. So who hates the "NATO" court more now - Serbs, who lost a ton of territory as a result of NATO intervention, or Croats, who regained a third of their country with NATO military support? Could it just be that the ICTY is just like any other legal system - deeply flawed as a result of human weakness (staff susceptible to ignorance, bias, political pressure), lack of resources (last I checked, the UN wasn't rich) and insufficient oversight (again, UN resources, or lack thereof)? Someone show me a court that could have handled things better - and without accusation of bias from one side or another. Don't like the results of this war crimes court? Don't go to war!

To finish my earlier thought - yes, I suppose that one could, to some degree, label this a "NATO" court in the sense that its creation was primarily fueled (I am assuming) by the West - probably in part due to political pressure on European and American politicians to do something about Balkan war crimes.
(Nenad, 31 May 2013 15:50)
--
I think it has more to do with NATO justifying its war crimes in the region and along with Germany, destroying Yugoslavia.

Jamie Shea, NATO's spokesman at the time, summed it up quite nicely. Check -> http://www.nato.int/kosovo/press/p990517b.htm

Jamie Shea : As you know, without NATO countries there would be no International Court of Justice, nor would there be any International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia because NATO countries are in the forefront of those who have established these two tribunals, who fund these tribunals and who support on a daily basis their activities.

Hey, isn't it an improvement that even Zoran sees the release of these two alleged war criminals as being a purely 'political' move? I, for myself, expected him to defend them, calling them heroes and defenders, and claiming they were innocent.
(Comm. Parrisson, 31 May 2013 16:06)
--
Yeah yeah, I'm surprised you haven't come out and defended this court for everything it has done, as you normally would, and call anyone who criticises it as some conspiracy theorist. Anyway, I think most people can see the political nature of this NATO kangaroo court. It is a joke and has nothing to do with reconciliation. In fact, it divided the region even further.

anyone who knows about the events of the 90's would not compare this decision to ANY other previous verdict, no matter how debatable some of those were. this time, the judges went beyond the pale - and they are the ones with blood on their hands.

now all the other mass murderers can return to blgd and banja luka, for a true 'hero's welcome'...

roberto

To finish my earlier thought - yes, I suppose that one could, to some degree, label this a "NATO" court in the sense that its creation was primarily fueled (I am assuming) by the West - probably in part due to political pressure on European and American politicians to do something about Balkan war crimes. And of course, leaders of NATO countries were never tried for their military actions over the past 20 years, so there is an appearance of a double standard. However, I am not sure that most of the world would regard Bill Clinton and Slobodan Milosevic in the same manner. Remember, there were many Serbs who came to view Milosevic as a criminal, whereas most Americans thought Clinton was just fine (and still do). What does that tell you? And sorry, the view that most Americans are too stupid to notice that Clinton is a criminal just doesn't hold water. Now George W Bush is another matter, and I have said for years that he and his cronies should be put on trial for their actions in Iraq and elsewhere. But realistically, it is difficult to bring the world's richest and most powerful to justice. Putin has never been tried over the Chechen war in 2000; the Chinese government has never answered for their horrible human rights record; both China and Russia defend, without penalty, despicable governments in countries like Syria, Iran, N Korea, Sudan...you can't just look at NATO.

One final thought: Stanisic allegedly worked for the CIA -- with commendation. If you think about it, had Stanisic failed to do as asked by Milosevic, he'd have been fired (he eventually was, in 1998), only to make way for someone who would do the job satisfactorily. So what would the CIA have to gain from Stanisic quitting over his conscience? No, it would be better to have a man on the inside of the Belgrade regime, doing what Milosevic wanted, then passing along word to Washington. So perhaps the agency put in a good word for these guys while they were on trial. If, in fact, it were their CIA connections that got them off the hook, why did they stand trial in the first place?

"now all the other mass murderers can return to blgd and banja luka, for a true 'hero's welcome'...

roberto
(roberto, 31 May 2013 18:29) "

Except that these two snuck into town without even talking to the waiting newsmen, much less any welcoming party from the government and massed citizens. There apparently isn't much confusion about their actual records in the war, even at home.

Thanks to Carla del Ponte's deal agreeing not use evidence that would injure Serbia's reputation, it may be impossible to prove guilt for those at the top of the Belgrade government beyond a shadow of a doubt in a court, but the record of the actual crimes committed remains in the trial records, and the historians can sort it out.

The Scholars' Initiative is coming out with a second edition of Confronting the Yugoslav Controversies, and based on the new evidence that has come out in the trials, they're not having the previous difficulty associating Milosevic with the crimes committed in Bosnia. Providing a record of events may be the most valuable result of these years of trials.

Wow, so many debates about the Hague court. So many injustices, claimed by all sides. Who was the bigger killer, the Croat or the Serb? Who was the biggest victim, the Muslim, Croat, or Serb? Who was the Hague court more partial to, and did it perform under political pressure? IMHO, the three individuals most responsible for the horrors of the Balkan Wars are dead - Tudjman, Milosevic, and Izetbegovic - may God determine their resting peace. Personally, I would like to move on. I would like to visit the Dalmatian coast this year, because it is gorgeous - spent several remarkable summers in Dubrovnik. I would like to visit Sarajevo, because it is a beautiful, rich, historic city, with pleasant memories from my youth. And I would also like to visit Kosovo in the near future, where at least 654 years of Serbian legend resides. The disputes, I am extremely tired of.

To free Gotovina is OK. To free Haradinaj is OK. But to free two Serbs it is unacceptable. What’s wrong with you people? Actually I know. You must be Croats or Bosnians.

Thats OK ...let these 2 maggots go, we all know the Hague is a political court. But one thing i will say is that de-throwned Chetnik leader Vojislav Seselj will never step foot on Serbian soil ever again. Just take a look how Gotovina & Markac conducted themselves during their trial - like true Army Generals, very professional. Take a look at Seselj and Mladic - like drunken Chetniks. In the end Seselj will be sent to a backward prison like Estonia were there will be plenty of "Rusty Spoons".

"Yeah yeah, I'm surprised you haven't come out and defended this court for everything it has done, as you normally would, and call anyone who criticises it as some conspiracy theorist. "
(Zoran, 31 May 2013 23:14)

I never defended the court for everything it has done. The problem with the ICTY is not that it's a 'NATO court', it's 'anti-Serbian', it's decision are 'political' and similar nonsense. No, the problem is that it acts like a normal court (see some posting below), which obviously is not appropriate for a war crimes tribunal.

I would have liked to see these two gentlemen staying behind bars, together with the two Croatian generals, and together in with Haradinaj and Limaj - preferably all in one prison cell :)

To finish my earlier thought - yes, I suppose that one could, to some degree, label this a "NATO" court in the sense that its creation was primarily fueled (I am assuming) by the West - probably in part due to political pressure on European and American politicians to do something about Balkan war crimes.
(Nenad, 31 May 2013 15:50)
--
I think it has more to do with NATO justifying its war crimes in the region and along with Germany, destroying Yugoslavia.

Jamie Shea, NATO's spokesman at the time, summed it up quite nicely. Check -> [link]

Jamie Shea : As you know, without NATO countries there would be no International Court of Justice, nor would there be any International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia because NATO countries are in the forefront of those who have established these two tribunals, who fund these tribunals and who support on a daily basis their activities.
(Zoran, 31 May 2013 23:19)

First of all, based on what true Serb patriots have written in these forums, I'd never trust what NATO says, let alone somebody like Jamie Shea who is an enemy of Serbdom.

On the other hand, according to Vuk's UN documents, this Court was proposed by Russia, it was approved in the UNSC by Russia and Russia has continued to approve in these 20 years the judges of this Court. So, this being a Russia Court, anybody who has any complains is more then welcome to address them to Russia.

now all the other mass murderers can return to blgd and banja luka, for a true 'hero's welcome'...

roberto
(roberto, 31 May 2013 18:29)

and Zagreb as well.
(Niall O'Doherty, 31 May 2013 21:38)
==========================

Well said Niall. This haters never sees the wrong done by his brethren. At least we Serbs can acknowledge that crimes were done by all sides which includes Serbian side. We never shied away from that.
Guilty or not guilty these guys spent time in prison so they didn't go completely free. If they are truly innocent then this time spent is a miscarriage of justice but if guilty (as most would agree) then at least they got to go to jail.

How much time they would get is the point now. Did they serve enough?

"It really seems that BiH has indeed the only victim"
========================
Are you forgetting Oric? He is a self confessed mass murderer and he got to go home.

"Are you saying that once Mladic and others are found guilty they must be worse than Hitler because even Hitler would walk free from Hague?"
(Peggy, 2 June 2013 02:17)

No, I'm saying that The Hague has different criteria and requirements than the Nuremberg trials, that's why the court proceedings take too loong and too many war criminals (from all sides) were set free.

Just take a look how Gotovina & Markac conducted themselves during their trial - like true Army Generals, very professional.
(Bam Bam, 1 June 2013 09:36)

Wasn't Gotovina hiding in Spain like any other war criminal who knows he's guilty? Didn't Seselj choose to go to the Hague on his own? Little details you forgot in your praise of two war criminals.

this verdict was a direct reaction to the recent criticism of the Hague. In order to save their image they want to say "See we did release high level Serbs, we are not biased against Serbs." A school child would see through this damage control. Bosnia and Croatia are furious, Serbs in RS and Serbia are shaking their heads at the mad whims of this so called court. how does this add to reconciliation? Who feels better?

The purpose of this court has always been to wash the west, that is all they have accomplished, that is all they can accomplish. It is time to end this nonsense.

I have no idea if the accused are not guilty. They never got a fair trial in the Hague, and if they had been citizens of a free country with independent courts, the court would have released them long ago because delays in procedure destroy justice. No citizen in a western court would be held for 10 years before the trial ended, they would have been released because their rights, and the rights of the victim, to a speedy trial had been destroyed.

why did they stand trial in the first place?
(Nenad, 31 May 2013 21:36)
=========================
Appearances?

They aren't innocent but guilty as it can possibly get. However the EU and the USA appointed those judges because they want Serbia within the EU And NATO. The current government is more than willing to go down that route so much for Serbias pretentious rebel status it was all along part of the US plan from the creation of Dayton and awarding a genocidal entity RS to being cleared of war crimes. Americas imperialism has no room for justice just look at what they are doing in Palestine.

Welcome home Serbian Freedomfighters!

Bganon, today you criticize the hague as unjust, but when the last government kidnapped karadzic, held him over the weekend so that they could suspend parliament and after parliament was suspended, announced his capture I criticized the Hague as unjust and you argued for Karadzic's extradition.

I'm glad to see we both agree now that this is a false court.

, I am not sure that most of the world would regard Bill Clinton and Slobodan Milosevic in the same manner. Remember, there were many Serbs who came to view Milosevic as a criminal, whereas most Americans thought Clinton was just fine (and still do). What does that tell you?
===========================
That tells me that Americans are fed a diet of BS and are not smart enough to figure things out for themselves or to even go looking outside their media for facts.
What did you have in mind?

I think The Hague might have set free German Adolf and Goebbels, because they personally didn't kill anyone (except themselves ;-) and no one can proof a straight command line showing that he is responsible for killing million of Jews.
(Comm. Parrisson, 31 May 2013 14:40)
========================

Are you saying that once Mladic and others are found guilty they must be worse than Hitler because even Hitler would walk free from Hague?

No, I'm saying that The Hague has different criteria and requirements than the Nuremberg trials, that's why the court proceedings take too loong and too many war criminals (from all sides) were set free.
(Comm. Parrisson, 3 June 2013 10:30)
========================
Sure, important ones from the other sides but all important Serbs are still there and will remain so.

anyone who knows about the events of the 90's would not compare this decision to ANY other previous verdict, no matter how debatable some of those were. this time, the judges went beyond the pale - and they are the ones with blood on their hands.

now all the other mass murderers can return to blgd and banja luka, for a true 'hero's welcome'...

roberto

What is "grotesque" is that these 2 innocent gentlemen were in tribunal custody for 10 years. They should sue the tribunal for false imprisonment!

Crazy week at the ICTY. The Jovica-Frenki acquittal has the Croats freaking out about a Milosevic amnesty, and this comes just a couple days after Tudjman is implicated in a Croatian joint criminal enterprise in BiH. So who hates the "NATO" court more now - Serbs, who lost a ton of territory as a result of NATO intervention, or Croats, who regained a third of their country with NATO military support? Could it just be that the ICTY is just like any other legal system - deeply flawed as a result of human weakness (staff susceptible to ignorance, bias, political pressure), lack of resources (last I checked, the UN wasn't rich) and insufficient oversight (again, UN resources, or lack thereof)? Someone show me a court that could have handled things better - and without accusation of bias from one side or another. Don't like the results of this war crimes court? Don't go to war!

Good about time Serbs are released, all they did was defend their land and people. The Hague court should be shutdown..one of the most biased courts in history of the justice systems...

To finish my earlier thought - yes, I suppose that one could, to some degree, label this a "NATO" court in the sense that its creation was primarily fueled (I am assuming) by the West - probably in part due to political pressure on European and American politicians to do something about Balkan war crimes. And of course, leaders of NATO countries were never tried for their military actions over the past 20 years, so there is an appearance of a double standard. However, I am not sure that most of the world would regard Bill Clinton and Slobodan Milosevic in the same manner. Remember, there were many Serbs who came to view Milosevic as a criminal, whereas most Americans thought Clinton was just fine (and still do). What does that tell you? And sorry, the view that most Americans are too stupid to notice that Clinton is a criminal just doesn't hold water. Now George W Bush is another matter, and I have said for years that he and his cronies should be put on trial for their actions in Iraq and elsewhere. But realistically, it is difficult to bring the world's richest and most powerful to justice. Putin has never been tried over the Chechen war in 2000; the Chinese government has never answered for their horrible human rights record; both China and Russia defend, without penalty, despicable governments in countries like Syria, Iran, N Korea, Sudan...you can't just look at NATO.

The Hague Tribunal determined that they were not guilty of directing, organizing, equipping, training, arming and financing units of the Serbian State Security Service which murdered, persecuted, deported and forcibly transferred non-Serb civilians in Bosnia-Herzegovina. - Then who did? If the ones in charge are not guilty, who is? These two guys make Seselj look like a boy scout, and poor Mr. Seselj is still behind bars. Lots of funny stuff coming out of the Hague recently.

Croatian media have reported that the Tribunal’s decision is “grotesque” and that “the Hague Tribunal has amnestied Slobodan Milošević”.

Yes, just as 'grotesque' as setting free the two Croatian generals who, of course, were not responsible for the killing and expelling of 1000s during the operation storm.

Winston I know from good authority that Stanisic visited Knin on a number of occasions in that period and directed Croatian Serb leaders. To what extent they followed his 'advice' is another matter.

But hey, one good injustice deserves another. Stanisic is as innocent as Gotovina so if one goes free then...
I'd be happier if both went to jail though. It would appear that as well as everybody else giving up on the Hague's idea of justice, the Hague itself is counting the days until its own demise.

The NATO court is a joke. One political decision after another. Does anyone respect this farce?
(Zoran, 31 May 2013 14:11)

Yes, when Serbs get sentenced then it is political. When they get set free, it is political. LOL..

now all the other mass murderers can return to blgd and banja luka, for a true 'hero's welcome'...
(roberto, 31 May 2013 18:29)

Oh roberto, forever trying to make a point. First, if there's any mass murders returning to "blgd" (can you not even cough up the courage to spell the name of a city you viscerally despise?), it's evening out the amount of mass murderers who already reside in Zagreb, Sarajevo, and your beloved Pristina. Second, no one knows how to give a "hero's welcome" to war criminals better than Croats and Albanians who are actually convinced their side was fighting a noble fight, whereas Serbs are one of the only ones who would debate what happened in the 1990s.

now all the other mass murderers can return to blgd and banja luka, for a true 'hero's welcome'...

roberto
(roberto, 31 May 2013 18:29)

and Zagreb as well.

Hey, isn't it an improvement that even Zoran sees the release of these two alleged war criminals as being a purely 'political' move? I, for myself, expected him to defend them, calling them heroes and defenders, and claiming they were innocent.
(Comm. Parrisson, 31 May 2013 16:06)
--
Yeah yeah, I'm surprised you haven't come out and defended this court for everything it has done, as you normally would, and call anyone who criticises it as some conspiracy theorist. Anyway, I think most people can see the political nature of this NATO kangaroo court. It is a joke and has nothing to do with reconciliation. In fact, it divided the region even further.

"But hey, one good injustice deserves another. Stanisic is as innocent as Gotovina so if one goes free then... "
(bganon, 31 May 2013 14:25)
Maybe to add, as innocent as Limaj and Hardadinaj and some more.

"I'd be happier if both went to jail though. It would appear that as well as everybody else giving up on the Hague's idea of justice, the Hague itself is counting the days until its own demise."
(bganon, 31 May 2013 14:25)

It's more and more obvious that a court on war crimes which works like a ordinary court with the premise of 'innocent until 100% proven guilty' doesn't work. I think The Hague might have set free German Adolf and Goebbels, because they personally didn't kill anyone (except themselves ;-) and no one can proof a straight command line showing that he is responsible for killing million of Jews.

Stanisic is as innocent as Gotovina so if one goes free then...
(bganon, 31 May 2013 14:25)

Yep. Gotovina's acquittal set a new precedent, so I really can't see Croats complaining about anything "grotesque". Throw in Haradinaj's two mistrials and the ICTY is an all around joke.

To finish my earlier thought - yes, I suppose that one could, to some degree, label this a "NATO" court in the sense that its creation was primarily fueled (I am assuming) by the West - probably in part due to political pressure on European and American politicians to do something about Balkan war crimes.
(Nenad, 31 May 2013 15:50)
--
I think it has more to do with NATO justifying its war crimes in the region and along with Germany, destroying Yugoslavia.

Jamie Shea, NATO's spokesman at the time, summed it up quite nicely. Check -> http://www.nato.int/kosovo/press/p990517b.htm

Jamie Shea : As you know, without NATO countries there would be no International Court of Justice, nor would there be any International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia because NATO countries are in the forefront of those who have established these two tribunals, who fund these tribunals and who support on a daily basis their activities.

The NATO court is a joke. One political decision after another. Does anyone respect this farce?

Bganon, today you criticize the hague as unjust, but when the last government kidnapped karadzic, held him over the weekend so that they could suspend parliament and after parliament was suspended, announced his capture I criticized the Hague as unjust and you argued for Karadzic's extradition.

I'm glad to see we both agree now that this is a false court.

To free Gotovina is OK. To free Haradinaj is OK. But to free two Serbs it is unacceptable. What’s wrong with you people? Actually I know. You must be Croats or Bosnians.

Thats OK ...let these 2 maggots go, we all know the Hague is a political court. But one thing i will say is that de-throwned Chetnik leader Vojislav Seselj will never step foot on Serbian soil ever again. Just take a look how Gotovina & Markac conducted themselves during their trial - like true Army Generals, very professional. Take a look at Seselj and Mladic - like drunken Chetniks. In the end Seselj will be sent to a backward prison like Estonia were there will be plenty of "Rusty Spoons".

Welcome home Serbian Freedomfighters!

now all the other mass murderers can return to blgd and banja luka, for a true 'hero's welcome'...

roberto
(roberto, 31 May 2013 18:29)

and Zagreb as well.
(Niall O'Doherty, 31 May 2013 21:38)
==========================

Well said Niall. This haters never sees the wrong done by his brethren. At least we Serbs can acknowledge that crimes were done by all sides which includes Serbian side. We never shied away from that.
Guilty or not guilty these guys spent time in prison so they didn't go completely free. If they are truly innocent then this time spent is a miscarriage of justice but if guilty (as most would agree) then at least they got to go to jail.

How much time they would get is the point now. Did they serve enough?

why did they stand trial in the first place?
(Nenad, 31 May 2013 21:36)
=========================
Appearances?

"It really seems that BiH has indeed the only victim"
========================
Are you forgetting Oric? He is a self confessed mass murderer and he got to go home.

, I am not sure that most of the world would regard Bill Clinton and Slobodan Milosevic in the same manner. Remember, there were many Serbs who came to view Milosevic as a criminal, whereas most Americans thought Clinton was just fine (and still do). What does that tell you?
===========================
That tells me that Americans are fed a diet of BS and are not smart enough to figure things out for themselves or to even go looking outside their media for facts.
What did you have in mind?

"Yes, when Serbs get sentenced then it is political. When they get set free, it is political. LOL.."
(John, 31 May 2013 15:11)

Hey, isn't it an improvement that even Zoran sees the release of these two alleged war criminals as being a purely 'political' move? I, for myself, expected him to defend them, calling them heroes and defenders, and claiming they were innocent.

It really seems that BiH has indeed the only victim and the only perpetrator of everything that happened 1992 - 1995 in its country. So Bosnians (of all ethnic background) shot themselves, sent themselves to concentration camps, raped themselves, pillaged each others' homes all without any interference from Serbia and with only minor interference from Croatia. It appears that Serbia's Milosevic regime is as guilty as Japan and that Croatia sort of had something to do in Bosnia's war but only really the dead guys were to blame (too bad they are dead)...Really strange stuff coming out of Hague...Oh yes and Serbs evicted themselves from Croatia also...I would not be surprised if Karadzic and Mladic get acquitted...

That's the third Croat to be acquitted in rather controversial circumstances. Firstly with Gotovina and Markac and now Simatovic from the Serb/YU side.

The Hague Court has long been a joke. International justice if you can call it that, seems to be meted out randomly and in terms of political point scoring, to try and even things up a bit. Karadzic, Mladic and the six Bosnian Croats who were sentenced this week should demand a retrial in a different court. They deserve it.

Peace and reconciliation? Not by a long shot.

An absolute farce. Wrap the whole thing up.

I think The Hague might have set free German Adolf and Goebbels, because they personally didn't kill anyone (except themselves ;-) and no one can proof a straight command line showing that he is responsible for killing million of Jews.
(Comm. Parrisson, 31 May 2013 14:40)
========================

Are you saying that once Mladic and others are found guilty they must be worse than Hitler because even Hitler would walk free from Hague?

"Yeah yeah, I'm surprised you haven't come out and defended this court for everything it has done, as you normally would, and call anyone who criticises it as some conspiracy theorist. "
(Zoran, 31 May 2013 23:14)

I never defended the court for everything it has done. The problem with the ICTY is not that it's a 'NATO court', it's 'anti-Serbian', it's decision are 'political' and similar nonsense. No, the problem is that it acts like a normal court (see some posting below), which obviously is not appropriate for a war crimes tribunal.

I would have liked to see these two gentlemen staying behind bars, together with the two Croatian generals, and together in with Haradinaj and Limaj - preferably all in one prison cell :)

this verdict was a direct reaction to the recent criticism of the Hague. In order to save their image they want to say "See we did release high level Serbs, we are not biased against Serbs." A school child would see through this damage control. Bosnia and Croatia are furious, Serbs in RS and Serbia are shaking their heads at the mad whims of this so called court. how does this add to reconciliation? Who feels better?

The purpose of this court has always been to wash the west, that is all they have accomplished, that is all they can accomplish. It is time to end this nonsense.

I have no idea if the accused are not guilty. They never got a fair trial in the Hague, and if they had been citizens of a free country with independent courts, the court would have released them long ago because delays in procedure destroy justice. No citizen in a western court would be held for 10 years before the trial ended, they would have been released because their rights, and the rights of the victim, to a speedy trial had been destroyed.

Wow, so many debates about the Hague court. So many injustices, claimed by all sides. Who was the bigger killer, the Croat or the Serb? Who was the biggest victim, the Muslim, Croat, or Serb? Who was the Hague court more partial to, and did it perform under political pressure? IMHO, the three individuals most responsible for the horrors of the Balkan Wars are dead - Tudjman, Milosevic, and Izetbegovic - may God determine their resting peace. Personally, I would like to move on. I would like to visit the Dalmatian coast this year, because it is gorgeous - spent several remarkable summers in Dubrovnik. I would like to visit Sarajevo, because it is a beautiful, rich, historic city, with pleasant memories from my youth. And I would also like to visit Kosovo in the near future, where at least 654 years of Serbian legend resides. The disputes, I am extremely tired of.

One final thought: Stanisic allegedly worked for the CIA -- with commendation. If you think about it, had Stanisic failed to do as asked by Milosevic, he'd have been fired (he eventually was, in 1998), only to make way for someone who would do the job satisfactorily. So what would the CIA have to gain from Stanisic quitting over his conscience? No, it would be better to have a man on the inside of the Belgrade regime, doing what Milosevic wanted, then passing along word to Washington. So perhaps the agency put in a good word for these guys while they were on trial. If, in fact, it were their CIA connections that got them off the hook, why did they stand trial in the first place?

To finish my earlier thought - yes, I suppose that one could, to some degree, label this a "NATO" court in the sense that its creation was primarily fueled (I am assuming) by the West - probably in part due to political pressure on European and American politicians to do something about Balkan war crimes.
(Nenad, 31 May 2013 15:50)
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I think it has more to do with NATO justifying its war crimes in the region and along with Germany, destroying Yugoslavia.

Jamie Shea, NATO's spokesman at the time, summed it up quite nicely. Check -> [link]

Jamie Shea : As you know, without NATO countries there would be no International Court of Justice, nor would there be any International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia because NATO countries are in the forefront of those who have established these two tribunals, who fund these tribunals and who support on a daily basis their activities.
(Zoran, 31 May 2013 23:19)

First of all, based on what true Serb patriots have written in these forums, I'd never trust what NATO says, let alone somebody like Jamie Shea who is an enemy of Serbdom.

On the other hand, according to Vuk's UN documents, this Court was proposed by Russia, it was approved in the UNSC by Russia and Russia has continued to approve in these 20 years the judges of this Court. So, this being a Russia Court, anybody who has any complains is more then welcome to address them to Russia.

They aren't innocent but guilty as it can possibly get. However the EU and the USA appointed those judges because they want Serbia within the EU And NATO. The current government is more than willing to go down that route so much for Serbias pretentious rebel status it was all along part of the US plan from the creation of Dayton and awarding a genocidal entity RS to being cleared of war crimes. Americas imperialism has no room for justice just look at what they are doing in Palestine.

No, I'm saying that The Hague has different criteria and requirements than the Nuremberg trials, that's why the court proceedings take too loong and too many war criminals (from all sides) were set free.
(Comm. Parrisson, 3 June 2013 10:30)
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Sure, important ones from the other sides but all important Serbs are still there and will remain so.

"now all the other mass murderers can return to blgd and banja luka, for a true 'hero's welcome'...

roberto
(roberto, 31 May 2013 18:29) "

Except that these two snuck into town without even talking to the waiting newsmen, much less any welcoming party from the government and massed citizens. There apparently isn't much confusion about their actual records in the war, even at home.

Thanks to Carla del Ponte's deal agreeing not use evidence that would injure Serbia's reputation, it may be impossible to prove guilt for those at the top of the Belgrade government beyond a shadow of a doubt in a court, but the record of the actual crimes committed remains in the trial records, and the historians can sort it out.

The Scholars' Initiative is coming out with a second edition of Confronting the Yugoslav Controversies, and based on the new evidence that has come out in the trials, they're not having the previous difficulty associating Milosevic with the crimes committed in Bosnia. Providing a record of events may be the most valuable result of these years of trials.

"Are you saying that once Mladic and others are found guilty they must be worse than Hitler because even Hitler would walk free from Hague?"
(Peggy, 2 June 2013 02:17)

No, I'm saying that The Hague has different criteria and requirements than the Nuremberg trials, that's why the court proceedings take too loong and too many war criminals (from all sides) were set free.

Just take a look how Gotovina & Markac conducted themselves during their trial - like true Army Generals, very professional.
(Bam Bam, 1 June 2013 09:36)

Wasn't Gotovina hiding in Spain like any other war criminal who knows he's guilty? Didn't Seselj choose to go to the Hague on his own? Little details you forgot in your praise of two war criminals.