"Mutual recognition of Belgrade and Priština" is a condition that the European Parliament sees for Serbia's EU membership, Ivica Dačić was told in Brussels.
and certainly not Serbia... also considering than Serbia is much poorer than any of the three countries mentioned above, it is much more likely that Kosovo becomes a province of UK, Germany or France, then Serbia's.
(icj1, 6 September 2012 04:47)
Nope and irrelevant. The party is over. Albanians will have to work and pay for themselves for once and will have to take account for their own actions for the first time.
That's what Tito tried. It didn't work because it was never enough. Who's going to pay, certainly not the UK, Germany or France for much longer.
(Wake Up and Smell the Coffee, 5 September 2012 12:10)
and certainly not Serbia... also considering than Serbia is much poorer than any of the three countries mentioned above, it is much more likely that Kosovo becomes a province of UK, Germany or France, then Serbia's.
And although no match for the might of Nazi Germany, an argument can made that the Serbs delayed the German invasion of Russia just long enough to make it fatal.
(Dorothy, 5 September 2012 13:33)
Of course, as an argument can also be made that the alignment of the planets in the solar system made it fatal :)
The UK, Germany France ect have invested far too much in Kosovo to give Serbia what she wants.
(Ian, UK, 5 September 2012 11:30)
You clearly haven't read the contents of the Ahtisaari Plan if you believe that. The EU will give Serbia the farm for its compliance over Kosovo. Ever been to the Serb enclaves of Kosovo? Including the ones south of the Ibar? You'd hardly think you left Serbia. Ever been to Prizren? I don't know how many Serbs are left there but the SPC has a huge influence in the town's historical district, much to the annoyance of local Albanian officials. Ever been to Gnjilane? The town is surrounded by better funded Serbian municipalities. You can thank the very powers that you believe are going to keep Serbia out of the EU for supporting such concessions, and you can thank them again when they push Pristina to accept further concessions for the sake of "normalization of relations". These powers have invested far too much in Kosovo's* stability. They don't and won't give a damn about its functionality since they're already planning a package of comprehensive autonomy for the north that effectively gives those "parallel institutions" powers of self government.
Gjon
Serbia did not participate in a war, it was Serbs of Bosnia and Croatia who did, and yes in 1999
when the Serbian army entered Kosovo Nato intervened... but Serbia did not lose!
Ian
Hmm Serbia won their battles in WW1 then retreated and regrouped and together with the French and English and Russians drove the Austrians and Bulgarians away from their territory!
Also the Bulgarians were begging the French to NOT let the Serbs have revenge for the horrors they committed in Serbia(Serbia should have razed Sofia to the ground) as revenge!!!
In WW2 Serbia incl Yugoslavia freed themselves(partisans and cetniks) from Nazi occupation unlike any other European country that was freed by The Russians or Americans!!!
Northern Ireland for the Irish and Independent Scotland!!! ;)
But of course Belgrade knows this is going to happen even though they're telling the Serbian masses differntly. They were never going to let Serbia march straight into the EU whilst Serbia tries to block and hinder Kosovo aka the West's brainchild.
(Ian, UK, 5 September 2012 11:30)
LOL oh Ian, for a minute I actually thought you might have had an argument. Turns out you're just coming up with one of many hypothetical scenarios that conveniently fit your biases. Haven't you realized it by now? The minute they throw out "recognition" as a precondition, all bets are off. And at this point, there's no need to join the EU. Considering your high opinions of this organization, it's no loss for Brussels if Serbia doesn't join. In fact, they'd probably prefer it so they might as well throw out "recognition" as a condition to ensure Serbia stays out. Lots of us here will be more than happy. You're far too obsessed with a country you don't live in and don't come from. Whatever stock you have in Kosovo* is your own business, but the West's red headed step child has more problems of its own beyond being hamstrung by whatever Serbia chooses to do. EU candidacy, let alone membership, if it comes up for debate at all, is at least 10 - 15 years away for them and that's provided all other countries recognize its sovereignty, which if Serbia refuses to do no one else will follow through. Stalemate my friend :)
what the hell is this crap? Serbia won world war? yes so what? so did America and Britain. what the hell does this have to do with today? oh yes I know now, we have individuals like Ari Gold and Ivan who serioulsy believe that Serbia should declare war over Kosova. well, there is a straight answer to that, no matter how important Kosova is in the Serbian myth, no rational Serb is going to declare war on it now and more than likely ever again. you van sell bravery on B92 all you like, its not going to happen
Typical Albanian answer, "Nato troops are there." Why are you hiding behind Nato?Why didn't you say something like, "We (Albanians) are waiting for you." Why don't you cowards fight for something that you believe . (ivan, 4 September 2012 17:35)
Because we are not that stupid. You did four wars and lost them all.
" It is a bit like saying Poland won WW2, which isn't exactly the case despite been on the "winning side".
You could say much the same about Britain too.
Germany bled to death on the Russian front, not at Dunkirk or Normandy.
And although no match for the might of Nazi Germany, an argument can made that the Serbs delayed the German invasion of Russia just long enough to make it fatal.
You also going to win WW3 and WW4. The only thing you lost is four wars in 1990s.
And sorry Peggy nobody in Serbia listen to you about negotiations.
(gjon fusha, 5 September 2012 04:23)
===================================
WHAT 4 WARS? Please tell us which wars are they. I have already explained how the wars I think you are referring to were not lost or even fought in Slovenia's case. So tell us WHICH FOUR WARS?
We won the two important wars, WW1 and WW2. You are the ones on the losing side, always.
So tell me what four wars do you people always bring up?
(Peggy, 4 September 2012 22:57)
Serbia didn't win WW1 and WW2. They were pretty much militarily defeated and exhausted in both wars; they just happened to be on the "winning side" at the end of them so to speak.
It is a bit like saying Poland won WW2, which isn't exactly the case despite been on the "winning side".
If they want recognition to be a condition, make it official now and allow Serbia to either make the necessary arrangements, or tell them to bugger off.
(Balkan Anthropologist, 5 September 2012 05:52)
Because if they make it a condition now, it'd be no fun. They'll drop the bombshell of Kosovo Recogntion in return for EU Membership after Serbia has closed all 33 Acquis Chapters. Serbia will be so close to EU membership she'll be able to smell and taste it. Serbia will be right at the finish line in terms of joing the EU, then there will be that one last hurdle ie recognising Kosovo. All that hard work and effort Serbia will have put into joining the EU will have been for nothing unless Serbia recognises Kosovo. Dirty politics I tell thee.
The UK, Germany France ect have invested far too much in Kosovo to give Serbia what she wants. This is why the recognise Kosovo bombshell will be dropped on Serbia when she is at her most vulnerable. Why waste it now when it can be used more effectively at a later date?
But of course Belgrade knows this is going to happen even though they're telling the Serbian masses differntly. They were never going to let Serbia march straight into the EU whilst Serbia tries to block and hinder Kosovo aka the West's brainchild.
Zoran, is the Serbian electoral so uneducated that they cannot see the EU and US is destroying any party that is against membership? not very admirable that is it?
And if the EU is a "sinking ship", then why is Serbia on her knees begging to get on-board?
(Ian, UK, 4 September 2012 23:29)
--
LOL! Serbian's begging to get into the EU? They are being forced and any party opposed to membership is being destroyed by the EU/US. Just look at the DSS and SRS.
Sure, it's a sinking ship but it's not under just yet so it still has some influence, just like the NAZIs in 1944. The only people begging to get into the EU are the Albanians and that won't happen unless Serbia enters first. As far as most Serbs are concerned, they don't want to join and not joining would be a blessing. My personal opinion is that we won't join and all of these negotiations are just delay tactics waiting for the EU to go under. We'll see in 2 to 3 years.
Here is what Serbs think of the EU/NATO/US etc....
Check -> http://euroasiaserbia.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/natofuckoff.jpg
Check -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObUHUMAWqVQ
Kosovo recognition will be a pre-condition for getting the UK, Germany, France ect to ratify Serbia's membership bid; which without Serbia cannot join.
(Ian, UK, 4 September 2012 23:29)
Ok Ian, I'll bite. Let's say that happens. Then what? Whatever support remains in Serbia for EU membership (assuming the EU is even around as something worth joining by the time that happens), all but disappears. Fine by me. EU officials have been jerking Serbia around for far too long. If they want recognition to be a condition, make it official now and allow Serbia to either make the necessary arrangements, or tell them to bugger off. Schultz's comments were either overruled by Fule or misinterpreted by Dacic. Right now, we're still at "normalization of relations", and that means more than Serbs playing nice. It also means Albanians stop harassing Serbs and pushing for authority over Serbs they know they don't have and won't get. But by the time any consideration for Serbia's membership comes up, enough agreements will be made that give the K-Serbs everything they want, including substantial autonomy for the north. Even if Serbia has to recognize at that point, they'll get everything they want as the concession for recognizing.
And if the EU is a "sinking ship", then why is Serbia on her knees begging to get on-board?
(Ian, UK, 4 September 2012 23:29)
You're guess is as good as mine. No one here understands this drive towards a collapsing system. You want to keep us out? Be my guest!
We won the two important wars, WW1 and WW2. You are the ones on the losing side, always.
Serbia should just stop any negotiations with Hashis because it is Serbian land. If it costs them EU then that's even better.
(Peggy, 4 September 2012 22:57)
You also going to win WW3 and WW4. The only thing you lost is four wars in 1990s.
And sorry Peggy nobody in Serbia listen to you about negotiations.
It still does not even have majority support by UN member states. Do you understand now?
(EU Dude, 4 September 2012 22:59)
Kosovo does not have a majority of FORMAL recognitions, but with the vote to join WB shows a majority of SUPPORT, from UN countries. Do you understand now?
Also it is as clear as anyone can make it, Serbia is NOT joining the EU while claiming Kosovo as its province. Actual recognition is not a requirement. Dropping its claim will pave the way for others to recognize.
Hopefully that is clear as it is reality, dude.
You're problem is that you're looking at it as some sort of official EU pre-condition for membership which is not the case. Kosovo recognition will be a pre-condition for getting the UK, Germany, France ect to ratify Serbia's membership bid; which without Serbia cannot join. They don't care what the 5 non-recognisers think. If we go straight for Serbia, we're by-passing the middleman. And Serbia will keep trotting along following the EU's carrot on a stick. No EU consensus is needed this way. An EU consensus isn't needed to bock, stop or veto Serbia's membership application. So much for Serbia's strong allies within the EU. If we want to block Serbia's membership bid until she recognises Kosovo we can and we will.
Charles de Gaulle twice vetoed the UK's bid to join the block, what is stopping someone from doing that to Serbia? You don't need an EU consensus for a veto.
And if the EU is a "sinking ship", then why is Serbia on her knees begging to get on-board?
Because we are not that stupid. You did four wars and lost them all. Stupid.
(gjon fusha, 4 September 2012 21:04)
============================
What four wars are you talking about? There was NO WAR in Slovenia. Yugoslav army (not Serbian army then) did not fight back. There was no war.
Bosnia is successfully partitioned (RS) and your Muslim brothers have no say in what goes on there.
The only place where Serbs lost, and not to Croats mind you but to NATO, was in Croatia. That war was fought by Serbs from Croatia NOT Serbia.
We won the two important wars, WW1 and WW2. You are the ones on the losing side, always.
So tell me what four wars do you people always bring up?
Serbia should just stop any negotiations with Hashis because it is Serbian land. If it costs them EU then that's even better.
You do realize that with your statement, if it is true, you are saying that Kosovo will also be able to join the EU, as it already has a majority of support in the EP? The Serbian argument has always been that one of the 5 would block membership to the EU.
(think about it, 4 September 2012 20:42)
You do realize that before the EP can QMV Kosovo* membership, that Kosovo* actually needs to be recognized as a separate state by 27/27 member states, not 22/27?
Why do you think that there is so much pressure on the outstanding 5 member states to do this if it is not a essential step???
It still does not even have majority support by UN member states. Do you understand now?
Think about it: There is no contradiction in what I said. Recognition of Kosovo by Serbia will not be a formal condition of EU membership. Clearly there will be some countries who push for recognition behind the scenes and individuals like the man who is the subject of this article who do so overtly, but you assume that EU countries view this issue as pivotal; they do not. If Serbia can show that it has a sound economy and will contribute positively to EU wide GDP then Kosovo will fade into the background. Money trumps everything!!
This, believes the EP president, is difficult "but not impossible", while European Council President Herman Van Rompuy and others in the EU are facing "an internal problem" when it comes to such a resolution to the Kosovo problem: not all EU members recognize Kosovo.
However, Schultz explained, the EU as a whole wants Serbia to recognize it.
Full off contradictions this man.
It is always the old same song.
NATO bombs failed and that is a fact. Kosovo is still part off serbia until the UN resolution 1244 exists !
Typical Albanian answer, "Nato troops are there." Why are you hiding behind Nato?Why didn't you say something like, "We (Albanians) are waiting for you." Why don't you cowards fight for something that you believe . (ivan, 4 September 2012 17:35)
Because we are not that stupid. You did four wars and lost them all. Stupid.
Serbia will do best when it calmly negotiates trade, educational, scientific and cultural agreements with the EU -and stays out of membership talks in case it's blackmailed. For that Serbia needs clever and cool headed politicians and wise citizenry. Serbia should study agreements Norway has with the EU. That's the way to go.
The main issue is to develop Serbian agriculture and small size industry. There are for example a number of excellent young Serbian designers of household things. If their are supported from private or state funds they will show the way for the inventive younger generation how to brake thru to European and world market.
Serbs, stop crying. All is in your hands. The answer just is something else than nationalism or fake morals.
Serbia only needs a majority of the votes in the EP which by the time it is ready to join (if it wants). By then there will be different MEPs and there will be different governments in the member states.
Again, absolutely nothing new. Time is on Serbia's side.
(EU Dude, 4 September 2012 16:29)
You do realize that with your statement, if it is true, you are saying that Kosovo will also be able to join the EU, as it already has a majority of support in the EP? The Serbian argument has always been that one of the 5 would block membership to the EU.
It is reality. Get used to it.
(Ian, UK, 4 September 2012 17:37)
LOL we've been "used" to it for over 10 years. Nothing ever changes with you higher ups thinking you've got an edge in the argument. You say one thing one day, you change rhetoric the next because you have no consensus. Here's some reality for you:
5 EU states do not recognize Kosovo. Serbia is under no precondition to do what 5 member states do not and will not unless Serbia does. And even 2 or even 3 of those 5 eventually do, you need all members to reach consensus. And if Serbia is kept out, what gives you any hope "Kosova" will ever get anywhere near the EU? Thanks but no thanks Ian, we're happy to be outside that sinking ship and if the only thing keeping us out is our wayward southern province trying to masquerade as something other than a failed idea, I should thank you and others for your continuous condescending attitudes towards us. I only thought you reserved such "get used to it" tactics towards the Turks :)
You will be on the other side of the Adriatic by the time we get through with you.
(ivan, 4 September 2012 17:35
Oh Yes, same thing as Palestine and Syria saying bout Israel.we will through you in the sea and then is all yours...When we say NATO now we mean Albania 'cose since 2008 its a full member, so remember we don't need Aviano to fly the war planes to you any more like in 1999 - remember? (I am sure you do) now we have Durres,Vlora, Saranda etc..so your dreams are out of dated and belongs to the middle age. but make no mistake this is what majority Serbsw think but we know that.
The best option is not to listen what EU or Russia is saying. Kosovo Albanians and Kosovo Serbs together with Serbia and Albania decide for their future in Kosovo. They could agree to divide Kosovo or to make free place for Albania and Serbia. Which means that both Serbia and Albania would control Kosovo. Mutual agreement. Just forget the history and cooperate together find solutions. In this way we together could tell to EU and Russia that we are enough adult so we can deal with the situation. Believe me most of Serbs and Albanians do not have any problem with each other. Politicians have problem not people.
So maybe mr Schultz will urge Azerbaijan to to accept the reality and recognize independent Karabakh??
Or maybe mr Schultz will urge Georgia to to accept the reality and recognize independent Ossetia and Abkhazia??
Soon Serbia's gonverment will realise that Kosova is a lost battle like "the footnote" issue.
Sooner better for serbian people.Also sooner they realise thet they can not govern in Kosova,the better chanses to get a better compromise and enter in EU.
P.S Its ironic to see some serbs who comfortably live in West, are calling for Serbia to join Russia and its allies and turning Serbia a little Venezuela of Balkan.Do as I say dont do as I do-their message.
The only way that people of Balkan to prosper is to join EU and West.West has been in the front of the world since the antiquity with Rome and Athens, Renaissance and industrial revolution and will be for a long time on top,even thout along the way West has suffered 2 World Wars and numerous crisis.In the end of the day:West is the best!
Kosovo is a condition for Serbia to lose its national sovereignty in order to join the EU-NATO the fascist masonic organization,no thanks Brussels we have mother RUSSIA.Serbia not only should join Russia but also the Republika Srpska then will becomes a complete state with 8.8 million resident and an area of 103,000 square kilometers.These should be the goals of Serbia not the West,Serbia should not be submitted,our brother state Russia by 2016 will surpass the British,French,Italian economy so will be the 6th largest economy of the world and up to 2020 will be the first economy in Europe and the fourth in the world,while the West is in deep economic crisis.
Down the EU-NATO with the west,long live RUSSIA.
I actually think that the EU will be quite impressed by Dacic's climbdowns on Kosovo, but that it won't be enough. No doubt he will promise to do more and will tell them that the Serbian people need more time to 'compromise' - ie give in over Kosovo.
Dacic is wrong in thinking that this and the odd investigation in dubious privatisations is going to get him a fast track membership to the EU though.
He is also wrong to think that Kosovo is a non issue that he can do what he likes with. He is banking on the fact that the main opposition party - DS will not much if he sells the Kosovo Serbs down the river and that other Serbian political parties too small to have any impact in their objections. That is a risky calculation and although for example somebody like Djilas is not a nationalist, Djilas could decide that politically it would sensible to take a more nationalistic position on Kosovo, which would make it very difficult for the government. Things could flare up, although Dacic would count on his putting out fires management control populisticaly supporting one position one day, supporting another position the next and saying something else behind closed doors to EU officials.
So it will be all smiles today and 'my friend Martin' and at meetings it was 'yes Serbian policy on Kosovo will change'. Later to Serbian media it will be an ' warm but vigorous exchange of views stating that Serbia's position on Kosovo remains with a willingness to continue the negotiation process'
"oh yes ivan, serbia is seriously going to engage in a war with Kosova, given all those NATO troops there :-) typical balkan bravado...nothing more
(Nikolle, 4 September 2012 17:02)"
Nikolle:
Typical Albanian answer, "Nato troops are there." Why are you hiding behind Nato? Why didn't you say something like, "We (Albanians) are waiting for you." Why don't you cowards fight for something that you believe is yours? Why depend on someone to steal it for you? Apart from the Evil Empire, I do not believe any Nato troops will fight for you. I read a few articles that Satan now wants to make a deal with Iran, leaving Israel to fend for itself. If Satan could betray Israel in such a way, the Albanians are nothing in comparison, so just wait until it happens to you. You will be on the other side of the Adriatic by the time we get through with you.
Yeah, well, Serbia would like Tony Blair and Bill Clinton tried and convicted for war crimes against our country, also, Germany, Austria and Croatia to pay compensation for horrific genocide of our people and destruction of our property during WWII and during 1990 civil war. What else? Yeah, we'd like international vultures and k-albanian criminals out of Kosovo and restoration of Serbia's rightful sovereign rule over it's entire territory.
So, let's talk about how we can both make compromises to get something of what we both want, shall we?
Nothing new here. Just the German brigade and friends trying to insist that recognition of Kosovo is inevitable when it isn't.
As for joining the EU, the Lisbon Agreement which comes in to force soon states that EU membership will then fall under Qualified Majority Voting of the EP. Only foreign policy does the Council of Ministers retain a veto. They are not the same thing.
Serbia only needs a majority of the votes in the EP which by the time it is ready to join (if it wants). By then there will be different MEPs and there will be different governments in the member states. If the EP now demands that Serbia must recognized Kosovo* soon, then it is a new condition and it will be clear (yet again) how corrupt the whole process of joining the EU is.
In that time Pristina could quite easily fall apart, not to mention the problems caused by albanians in FYROM etc. No Serbia in the EU, no Kosovo* in the EU.
Again, absolutely nothing new. Time is on Serbia's side.
No recognition of Kosovo = no EU membership for Serbia.
(Ian, UK, 4 September 2012 14:43)
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No Serbia in the EU = No "Kosova"* in the EU.
Now it seems Serbians aren't as enthusiastic about the EU as you local K*-Albanians. By the time Serbia is ready for the EU, there will be more viable alternatives available.
Germany has a good reputation of making a mess of Europe and I believe it will live up to its reputation this time around also. The EU is in a pretty bad state. History repeating... In 10 years time, I don't even think the UK will exist...
Why is it so many people refuse to recognise that the EU is in deep do do.
I wouldn't worry about EU membership at all for any South Eastern Europeans, I don't want to see anyone end up like Greece, but that's what is going to happen and it will if they get membership.
Bulgaria have decided that they don't want membership the way things are now, and things don't look like improving anytime soon. The EU is not a good place to be so why the hell would anyone with any common sense want to be a member anyway?? It beats the hell out of me.
Even the Germans see the future, they are starting to use the Deutchmark in some places and that tells us that things are not right in the Eurozone. Check it out if you don't believe me.
Now if 5 EU countries do not recognize Kosovo and at least 2 or three that have recognized sort of regret they did, how can the entire EP want Serbia to do so as a requirement? Schultz is getting ahead of himself. The whole "be nice to each other" policy is the only one that seems to work; provided Pristina's leaders don't come up with another stupid idea of pissing off the Serb contingent as a way of "integrating" them into their failing state.
No recognition of Kosovo = no EU membership for Serbia.
(Ian, UK, 4 September 2012 14:43)
LOL I can't decide whether that's a threat or a promise given the current circumstances :)
I don't even understand what this EU comotion is all about? One, how many other EU countries had to forfeit a portion of their territory for membership? Answer: None. Two, what can a bankrupt EU ever offer to Serbia for such a high demand. Answer: Nothing. Wars are fought for less territory than that. Example, Great britain and the Faulkland Islands. Why didn't the former relinguish their custody to Argentina? Three, even if the EU would grant Serbia a few loans, is giving up your territory worth it? Answer: No. Let's face it friends, this has nothing to do with EU membership, it's all a smoke screen for the real objective. The Evil Empire wants influence in this part of the world and that is all!! The EU is on the verge of extinction and they're still going to be asking for Kosovo, this time under another pretense. Milosevic is gone, what is Nato still doing there? The real question is, what is Serbia going to do? Are they willing to engage in another war? If not, this extortion will never end? In my opinion, Serbia has the right people in the proper places. Putin is in power and the US has its hands full economically and in global wars. Nato would never agree to another bombing of Serbia. Vucic was in Russia shopping for the latest military technology. So the time is right Serbia. Get rid of the garbage!!
We have been saying this for at least half a decade that Serbia will not join the union without formal recognition of Kosovo. Brussels learned their lesson well with Cyprus.
Let's wait and see how far the EU and euro zone will deteriorate and or break apart, before we worry too much about what these Eurocrats want. I do agree though, Belgrade and Pristina should find solutions to mutual problems, but recognition of an Albanian State in KiM certainly does not need be a part of the solution. The EU can jibber jabber all it wants, it's hand is weakening by the week, and so are th weight of its demands.
(Ecoman, 4 September 2012 14:33)
# Comment link
Lol if you thnk EU is broke then Serbia is the whole in my toilet lol when the west says you have to recognize Kosovo then you do it because you just do it :D
EU will undergo some transformation, as currently isn't functioning well. It's questionable what form it will take in the future.
But, this is not a question of any urgency for Serbia, as it it clear that it will not join (even if we wanted to - that too, is questionable) for next 10 years.
Reforms should be carried out.
But, why would anyone be in a hurry to satisfy all the conditions for EU membership?
Let's be clear about one thing, the decision about membership of ANY country in the EU is not for the European Parliament to take but for the member states. Obviously the EP is an important body within the EU framework and its opinion cannot be completely discounted but at present, as the article points out, several countries do not recognise Kosovo and therefore recognition by Serbia cannot be a condition for membership. If this sort of hot air continues MEPs would be advised to sell rides in a balloon so at least some benefit is derived from it.
(ned taylor, 4 September 2012 14:23)
Are a lot of you that make analyses with tool of desire, not with tool of reality? What you are saying is that for Kosova is not possible, cause to 5/27 countries of EU. You forget that for same reasons is not possible for Serbia. 22/27 countries of EU don’t recognize Serbia with its constitutional borders.
With the actual political situation of World and EU the equation is so and is simple:
If Serbia don’t want, for Kosova is impossible to enter EU. Otherwise if Kosova don’t want, for Serbia is impossible to enter EU.
(ned taylor, 4 September 2012 14:23)
You contradict yourself, first you say the decision is not for the EP but each individual member states. Then you say that recognition cannot be a requirement.
If Serbia must secure approval from EACH member state to be accepted then you have 5 that will not require recognition and up to 22 that will for their "individual" vote.
If Serbia only needs a consensus from the EU as a whole then it would not be a requirement as there is no consensus on the subject.
But you were right in that Serbia must satisfy all requirements presented in a consenus from the EU(which does not require recognition), but then must also secure each members vote(which may or may not require recognition)
Let's be clear about one thing, the decision about membership of ANY country in the EU is not for the European Parliament to take but for the member states. Obviously the EP is an important body within the EU framework and its opinion cannot be completely discounted but at present, as the article points out, several countries do not recognise Kosovo and therefore recognition by Serbia cannot be a condition for membership. If this sort of hot air continues MEPs would be advised to sell rides in a balloon so at least some benefit is derived from it.
(ned taylor, 4 September 2012 14:23)
The UK, Germany, France and co don't have to ratify Serbia's EU membership if they don't want to. There is no chance in hell they'll do this until Serbia recognises Kosovo. They can also veto Serbia's EU membership too. Their gang, their rules.
Welcome to reality.
No recognition of Kosovo = no EU membership for Serbia.
Let's be clear about one thing, the decision about membership of ANY country in the EU is not for the European Parliament to take but for the member states. Obviously the EP is an important body within the EU framework and its opinion cannot be completely discounted but at present, as the article points out, several countries do not recognise Kosovo and therefore recognition by Serbia cannot be a condition for membership. If this sort of hot air continues MEPs would be advised to sell rides in a balloon so at least some benefit is derived from it.
Let's wait and see how far the EU and euro zone will deteriorate and or break apart, before we worry too much about what these Eurocrats want. I do agree though, Belgrade and Pristina should find solutions to mutual problems, but recognition of an Albanian State in KiM certainly does not need be a part of the solution. The EU can jibber jabber all it wants, it's hand is weakening by the week, and so are th weight of its demands.
I don't know how anyone can think that the UK, France, Germany, Netherlands, Belgium, Slovenia, Croatia, Hungary, Sweden ect were going to allow Serbia into the EU without recognising Kosovo first. I doubt Serbia will be joining any International Organisation where the West can block Serbia, until Kosovo is recognised by Sebria.
And those who believed that Serbia would join the EU with Kosovo in Serbia's boarders are the biggest fools of all.
Good. High time for Serbia to say f*** off to this union anyway. There is a high possibility that the EU will either completely collapse, or take new form by the time Serbia is even able to join it anyway. And even if by some miracle the EU remains intact and they ask Serbia to join...just look at Bulgaria and Romania the two countries that border and are most similar to Serbia to see what their results have been.
Obviously the elites in the former Eastern bloc countries (former communists not euro enthusiasts) got really rich off membership. But people? Not so much. Lets not even begin to mention the farmers who have been stuck bearing the chains of EU regulation that has left agriculture and other forms of domestic economy in complete ruins.
The people of Europe did not sacrifice so that Germany could once again rule over it. The 4th Riech=the EU. What Germany couldn't do with tanks and guns they are trying to do with finances. But as reports will show you, the EU is a failed institution and the jig is up very, very soon.
The EU can go to hell and take Van Rompuy, Ashton and Barosso with it. But Kosovo i Metohija, our Jerusalem is a matter of life and death as well as a condition to the survival of our nation. Without it, we will and we deserve to go completely extinct.
I don't know how anyone can think that the UK, France, Germany, Netherlands, Belgium, Slovenia, Croatia, Hungary, Sweden ect were going to allow Serbia into the EU without recognising Kosovo first. I doubt Serbia will be joining any International Organisation where the West can block Serbia, until Kosovo is recognised by Sebria.
And those who believed that Serbia would join the EU with Kosovo in Serbia's boarders are the biggest fools of all.
Good. High time for Serbia to say f*** off to this union anyway. There is a high possibility that the EU will either completely collapse, or take new form by the time Serbia is even able to join it anyway. And even if by some miracle the EU remains intact and they ask Serbia to join...just look at Bulgaria and Romania the two countries that border and are most similar to Serbia to see what their results have been.
Obviously the elites in the former Eastern bloc countries (former communists not euro enthusiasts) got really rich off membership. But people? Not so much. Lets not even begin to mention the farmers who have been stuck bearing the chains of EU regulation that has left agriculture and other forms of domestic economy in complete ruins.
The people of Europe did not sacrifice so that Germany could once again rule over it. The 4th Riech=the EU. What Germany couldn't do with tanks and guns they are trying to do with finances. But as reports will show you, the EU is a failed institution and the jig is up very, very soon.
The EU can go to hell and take Van Rompuy, Ashton and Barosso with it. But Kosovo i Metohija, our Jerusalem is a matter of life and death as well as a condition to the survival of our nation. Without it, we will and we deserve to go completely extinct.
Let's be clear about one thing, the decision about membership of ANY country in the EU is not for the European Parliament to take but for the member states. Obviously the EP is an important body within the EU framework and its opinion cannot be completely discounted but at present, as the article points out, several countries do not recognise Kosovo and therefore recognition by Serbia cannot be a condition for membership. If this sort of hot air continues MEPs would be advised to sell rides in a balloon so at least some benefit is derived from it.
Let's be clear about one thing, the decision about membership of ANY country in the EU is not for the European Parliament to take but for the member states. Obviously the EP is an important body within the EU framework and its opinion cannot be completely discounted but at present, as the article points out, several countries do not recognise Kosovo and therefore recognition by Serbia cannot be a condition for membership. If this sort of hot air continues MEPs would be advised to sell rides in a balloon so at least some benefit is derived from it.
(ned taylor, 4 September 2012 14:23)
The UK, Germany, France and co don't have to ratify Serbia's EU membership if they don't want to. There is no chance in hell they'll do this until Serbia recognises Kosovo. They can also veto Serbia's EU membership too. Their gang, their rules.
Welcome to reality.
No recognition of Kosovo = no EU membership for Serbia.
Let's wait and see how far the EU and euro zone will deteriorate and or break apart, before we worry too much about what these Eurocrats want. I do agree though, Belgrade and Pristina should find solutions to mutual problems, but recognition of an Albanian State in KiM certainly does not need be a part of the solution. The EU can jibber jabber all it wants, it's hand is weakening by the week, and so are th weight of its demands.
EU will undergo some transformation, as currently isn't functioning well. It's questionable what form it will take in the future.
But, this is not a question of any urgency for Serbia, as it it clear that it will not join (even if we wanted to - that too, is questionable) for next 10 years.
Reforms should be carried out.
But, why would anyone be in a hurry to satisfy all the conditions for EU membership?
Nothing new here. Just the German brigade and friends trying to insist that recognition of Kosovo is inevitable when it isn't.
As for joining the EU, the Lisbon Agreement which comes in to force soon states that EU membership will then fall under Qualified Majority Voting of the EP. Only foreign policy does the Council of Ministers retain a veto. They are not the same thing.
Serbia only needs a majority of the votes in the EP which by the time it is ready to join (if it wants). By then there will be different MEPs and there will be different governments in the member states. If the EP now demands that Serbia must recognized Kosovo* soon, then it is a new condition and it will be clear (yet again) how corrupt the whole process of joining the EU is.
In that time Pristina could quite easily fall apart, not to mention the problems caused by albanians in FYROM etc. No Serbia in the EU, no Kosovo* in the EU.
Again, absolutely nothing new. Time is on Serbia's side.
No recognition of Kosovo = no EU membership for Serbia.
(Ian, UK, 4 September 2012 14:43)
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No Serbia in the EU = No "Kosova"* in the EU.
Now it seems Serbians aren't as enthusiastic about the EU as you local K*-Albanians. By the time Serbia is ready for the EU, there will be more viable alternatives available.
Germany has a good reputation of making a mess of Europe and I believe it will live up to its reputation this time around also. The EU is in a pretty bad state. History repeating... In 10 years time, I don't even think the UK will exist...
Let's be clear about one thing, the decision about membership of ANY country in the EU is not for the European Parliament to take but for the member states. Obviously the EP is an important body within the EU framework and its opinion cannot be completely discounted but at present, as the article points out, several countries do not recognise Kosovo and therefore recognition by Serbia cannot be a condition for membership. If this sort of hot air continues MEPs would be advised to sell rides in a balloon so at least some benefit is derived from it.
(ned taylor, 4 September 2012 14:23)
Are a lot of you that make analyses with tool of desire, not with tool of reality? What you are saying is that for Kosova is not possible, cause to 5/27 countries of EU. You forget that for same reasons is not possible for Serbia. 22/27 countries of EU don’t recognize Serbia with its constitutional borders.
With the actual political situation of World and EU the equation is so and is simple:
If Serbia don’t want, for Kosova is impossible to enter EU. Otherwise if Kosova don’t want, for Serbia is impossible to enter EU.
Why is it so many people refuse to recognise that the EU is in deep do do.
I wouldn't worry about EU membership at all for any South Eastern Europeans, I don't want to see anyone end up like Greece, but that's what is going to happen and it will if they get membership.
Bulgaria have decided that they don't want membership the way things are now, and things don't look like improving anytime soon. The EU is not a good place to be so why the hell would anyone with any common sense want to be a member anyway?? It beats the hell out of me.
Even the Germans see the future, they are starting to use the Deutchmark in some places and that tells us that things are not right in the Eurozone. Check it out if you don't believe me.
Yeah, well, Serbia would like Tony Blair and Bill Clinton tried and convicted for war crimes against our country, also, Germany, Austria and Croatia to pay compensation for horrific genocide of our people and destruction of our property during WWII and during 1990 civil war. What else? Yeah, we'd like international vultures and k-albanian criminals out of Kosovo and restoration of Serbia's rightful sovereign rule over it's entire territory.
So, let's talk about how we can both make compromises to get something of what we both want, shall we?
Typical Albanian answer, "Nato troops are there." Why are you hiding behind Nato?Why didn't you say something like, "We (Albanians) are waiting for you." Why don't you cowards fight for something that you believe . (ivan, 4 September 2012 17:35)
Because we are not that stupid. You did four wars and lost them all. Stupid.
I don't even understand what this EU comotion is all about? One, how many other EU countries had to forfeit a portion of their territory for membership? Answer: None. Two, what can a bankrupt EU ever offer to Serbia for such a high demand. Answer: Nothing. Wars are fought for less territory than that. Example, Great britain and the Faulkland Islands. Why didn't the former relinguish their custody to Argentina? Three, even if the EU would grant Serbia a few loans, is giving up your territory worth it? Answer: No. Let's face it friends, this has nothing to do with EU membership, it's all a smoke screen for the real objective. The Evil Empire wants influence in this part of the world and that is all!! The EU is on the verge of extinction and they're still going to be asking for Kosovo, this time under another pretense. Milosevic is gone, what is Nato still doing there? The real question is, what is Serbia going to do? Are they willing to engage in another war? If not, this extortion will never end? In my opinion, Serbia has the right people in the proper places. Putin is in power and the US has its hands full economically and in global wars. Nato would never agree to another bombing of Serbia. Vucic was in Russia shopping for the latest military technology. So the time is right Serbia. Get rid of the garbage!!
Kosovo is a condition for Serbia to lose its national sovereignty in order to join the EU-NATO the fascist masonic organization,no thanks Brussels we have mother RUSSIA.Serbia not only should join Russia but also the Republika Srpska then will becomes a complete state with 8.8 million resident and an area of 103,000 square kilometers.These should be the goals of Serbia not the West,Serbia should not be submitted,our brother state Russia by 2016 will surpass the British,French,Italian economy so will be the 6th largest economy of the world and up to 2020 will be the first economy in Europe and the fourth in the world,while the West is in deep economic crisis.
Down the EU-NATO with the west,long live RUSSIA.
Now if 5 EU countries do not recognize Kosovo and at least 2 or three that have recognized sort of regret they did, how can the entire EP want Serbia to do so as a requirement? Schultz is getting ahead of himself. The whole "be nice to each other" policy is the only one that seems to work; provided Pristina's leaders don't come up with another stupid idea of pissing off the Serb contingent as a way of "integrating" them into their failing state.
No recognition of Kosovo = no EU membership for Serbia.
(Ian, UK, 4 September 2012 14:43)
LOL I can't decide whether that's a threat or a promise given the current circumstances :)
We have been saying this for at least half a decade that Serbia will not join the union without formal recognition of Kosovo. Brussels learned their lesson well with Cyprus.
Let's wait and see how far the EU and euro zone will deteriorate and or break apart, before we worry too much about what these Eurocrats want. I do agree though, Belgrade and Pristina should find solutions to mutual problems, but recognition of an Albanian State in KiM certainly does not need be a part of the solution. The EU can jibber jabber all it wants, it's hand is weakening by the week, and so are th weight of its demands.
(Ecoman, 4 September 2012 14:33)
# Comment link
Lol if you thnk EU is broke then Serbia is the whole in my toilet lol when the west says you have to recognize Kosovo then you do it because you just do it :D
"oh yes ivan, serbia is seriously going to engage in a war with Kosova, given all those NATO troops there :-) typical balkan bravado...nothing more
(Nikolle, 4 September 2012 17:02)"
Nikolle:
Typical Albanian answer, "Nato troops are there." Why are you hiding behind Nato? Why didn't you say something like, "We (Albanians) are waiting for you." Why don't you cowards fight for something that you believe is yours? Why depend on someone to steal it for you? Apart from the Evil Empire, I do not believe any Nato troops will fight for you. I read a few articles that Satan now wants to make a deal with Iran, leaving Israel to fend for itself. If Satan could betray Israel in such a way, the Albanians are nothing in comparison, so just wait until it happens to you. You will be on the other side of the Adriatic by the time we get through with you.
(ned taylor, 4 September 2012 14:23)
You contradict yourself, first you say the decision is not for the EP but each individual member states. Then you say that recognition cannot be a requirement.
If Serbia must secure approval from EACH member state to be accepted then you have 5 that will not require recognition and up to 22 that will for their "individual" vote.
If Serbia only needs a consensus from the EU as a whole then it would not be a requirement as there is no consensus on the subject.
But you were right in that Serbia must satisfy all requirements presented in a consenus from the EU(which does not require recognition), but then must also secure each members vote(which may or may not require recognition)
So maybe mr Schultz will urge Azerbaijan to to accept the reality and recognize independent Karabakh??
Or maybe mr Schultz will urge Georgia to to accept the reality and recognize independent Ossetia and Abkhazia??
Serbia will do best when it calmly negotiates trade, educational, scientific and cultural agreements with the EU -and stays out of membership talks in case it's blackmailed. For that Serbia needs clever and cool headed politicians and wise citizenry. Serbia should study agreements Norway has with the EU. That's the way to go.
The main issue is to develop Serbian agriculture and small size industry. There are for example a number of excellent young Serbian designers of household things. If their are supported from private or state funds they will show the way for the inventive younger generation how to brake thru to European and world market.
Serbs, stop crying. All is in your hands. The answer just is something else than nationalism or fake morals.
You're problem is that you're looking at it as some sort of official EU pre-condition for membership which is not the case. Kosovo recognition will be a pre-condition for getting the UK, Germany, France ect to ratify Serbia's membership bid; which without Serbia cannot join. They don't care what the 5 non-recognisers think. If we go straight for Serbia, we're by-passing the middleman. And Serbia will keep trotting along following the EU's carrot on a stick. No EU consensus is needed this way. An EU consensus isn't needed to bock, stop or veto Serbia's membership application. So much for Serbia's strong allies within the EU. If we want to block Serbia's membership bid until she recognises Kosovo we can and we will.
Charles de Gaulle twice vetoed the UK's bid to join the block, what is stopping someone from doing that to Serbia? You don't need an EU consensus for a veto.
And if the EU is a "sinking ship", then why is Serbia on her knees begging to get on-board?
You will be on the other side of the Adriatic by the time we get through with you.
(ivan, 4 September 2012 17:35
Oh Yes, same thing as Palestine and Syria saying bout Israel.we will through you in the sea and then is all yours...When we say NATO now we mean Albania 'cose since 2008 its a full member, so remember we don't need Aviano to fly the war planes to you any more like in 1999 - remember? (I am sure you do) now we have Durres,Vlora, Saranda etc..so your dreams are out of dated and belongs to the middle age. but make no mistake this is what majority Serbsw think but we know that.
The best option is not to listen what EU or Russia is saying. Kosovo Albanians and Kosovo Serbs together with Serbia and Albania decide for their future in Kosovo. They could agree to divide Kosovo or to make free place for Albania and Serbia. Which means that both Serbia and Albania would control Kosovo. Mutual agreement. Just forget the history and cooperate together find solutions. In this way we together could tell to EU and Russia that we are enough adult so we can deal with the situation. Believe me most of Serbs and Albanians do not have any problem with each other. Politicians have problem not people.
It is reality. Get used to it.
(Ian, UK, 4 September 2012 17:37)
LOL we've been "used" to it for over 10 years. Nothing ever changes with you higher ups thinking you've got an edge in the argument. You say one thing one day, you change rhetoric the next because you have no consensus. Here's some reality for you:
5 EU states do not recognize Kosovo. Serbia is under no precondition to do what 5 member states do not and will not unless Serbia does. And even 2 or even 3 of those 5 eventually do, you need all members to reach consensus. And if Serbia is kept out, what gives you any hope "Kosova" will ever get anywhere near the EU? Thanks but no thanks Ian, we're happy to be outside that sinking ship and if the only thing keeping us out is our wayward southern province trying to masquerade as something other than a failed idea, I should thank you and others for your continuous condescending attitudes towards us. I only thought you reserved such "get used to it" tactics towards the Turks :)
This, believes the EP president, is difficult "but not impossible", while European Council President Herman Van Rompuy and others in the EU are facing "an internal problem" when it comes to such a resolution to the Kosovo problem: not all EU members recognize Kosovo.
However, Schultz explained, the EU as a whole wants Serbia to recognize it.
Full off contradictions this man.
It is always the old same song.
NATO bombs failed and that is a fact. Kosovo is still part off serbia until the UN resolution 1244 exists !
Because we are not that stupid. You did four wars and lost them all. Stupid.
(gjon fusha, 4 September 2012 21:04)
============================
What four wars are you talking about? There was NO WAR in Slovenia. Yugoslav army (not Serbian army then) did not fight back. There was no war.
Bosnia is successfully partitioned (RS) and your Muslim brothers have no say in what goes on there.
The only place where Serbs lost, and not to Croats mind you but to NATO, was in Croatia. That war was fought by Serbs from Croatia NOT Serbia.
We won the two important wars, WW1 and WW2. You are the ones on the losing side, always.
So tell me what four wars do you people always bring up?
Serbia should just stop any negotiations with Hashis because it is Serbian land. If it costs them EU then that's even better.
We won the two important wars, WW1 and WW2. You are the ones on the losing side, always.
Serbia should just stop any negotiations with Hashis because it is Serbian land. If it costs them EU then that's even better.
(Peggy, 4 September 2012 22:57)
You also going to win WW3 and WW4. The only thing you lost is four wars in 1990s.
And sorry Peggy nobody in Serbia listen to you about negotiations.
Soon Serbia's gonverment will realise that Kosova is a lost battle like "the footnote" issue.
Sooner better for serbian people.Also sooner they realise thet they can not govern in Kosova,the better chanses to get a better compromise and enter in EU.
P.S Its ironic to see some serbs who comfortably live in West, are calling for Serbia to join Russia and its allies and turning Serbia a little Venezuela of Balkan.Do as I say dont do as I do-their message.
The only way that people of Balkan to prosper is to join EU and West.West has been in the front of the world since the antiquity with Rome and Athens, Renaissance and industrial revolution and will be for a long time on top,even thout along the way West has suffered 2 World Wars and numerous crisis.In the end of the day:West is the best!
Serbia only needs a majority of the votes in the EP which by the time it is ready to join (if it wants). By then there will be different MEPs and there will be different governments in the member states.
Again, absolutely nothing new. Time is on Serbia's side.
(EU Dude, 4 September 2012 16:29)
You do realize that with your statement, if it is true, you are saying that Kosovo will also be able to join the EU, as it already has a majority of support in the EP? The Serbian argument has always been that one of the 5 would block membership to the EU.
You do realize that with your statement, if it is true, you are saying that Kosovo will also be able to join the EU, as it already has a majority of support in the EP? The Serbian argument has always been that one of the 5 would block membership to the EU.
(think about it, 4 September 2012 20:42)
You do realize that before the EP can QMV Kosovo* membership, that Kosovo* actually needs to be recognized as a separate state by 27/27 member states, not 22/27?
Why do you think that there is so much pressure on the outstanding 5 member states to do this if it is not a essential step???
It still does not even have majority support by UN member states. Do you understand now?
Kosovo recognition will be a pre-condition for getting the UK, Germany, France ect to ratify Serbia's membership bid; which without Serbia cannot join.
(Ian, UK, 4 September 2012 23:29)
Ok Ian, I'll bite. Let's say that happens. Then what? Whatever support remains in Serbia for EU membership (assuming the EU is even around as something worth joining by the time that happens), all but disappears. Fine by me. EU officials have been jerking Serbia around for far too long. If they want recognition to be a condition, make it official now and allow Serbia to either make the necessary arrangements, or tell them to bugger off. Schultz's comments were either overruled by Fule or misinterpreted by Dacic. Right now, we're still at "normalization of relations", and that means more than Serbs playing nice. It also means Albanians stop harassing Serbs and pushing for authority over Serbs they know they don't have and won't get. But by the time any consideration for Serbia's membership comes up, enough agreements will be made that give the K-Serbs everything they want, including substantial autonomy for the north. Even if Serbia has to recognize at that point, they'll get everything they want as the concession for recognizing.
And if the EU is a "sinking ship", then why is Serbia on her knees begging to get on-board?
(Ian, UK, 4 September 2012 23:29)
You're guess is as good as mine. No one here understands this drive towards a collapsing system. You want to keep us out? Be my guest!
what the hell is this crap? Serbia won world war? yes so what? so did America and Britain. what the hell does this have to do with today? oh yes I know now, we have individuals like Ari Gold and Ivan who serioulsy believe that Serbia should declare war over Kosova. well, there is a straight answer to that, no matter how important Kosova is in the Serbian myth, no rational Serb is going to declare war on it now and more than likely ever again. you van sell bravery on B92 all you like, its not going to happen
Think about it: There is no contradiction in what I said. Recognition of Kosovo by Serbia will not be a formal condition of EU membership. Clearly there will be some countries who push for recognition behind the scenes and individuals like the man who is the subject of this article who do so overtly, but you assume that EU countries view this issue as pivotal; they do not. If Serbia can show that it has a sound economy and will contribute positively to EU wide GDP then Kosovo will fade into the background. Money trumps everything!!
It still does not even have majority support by UN member states. Do you understand now?
(EU Dude, 4 September 2012 22:59)
Kosovo does not have a majority of FORMAL recognitions, but with the vote to join WB shows a majority of SUPPORT, from UN countries. Do you understand now?
Also it is as clear as anyone can make it, Serbia is NOT joining the EU while claiming Kosovo as its province. Actual recognition is not a requirement. Dropping its claim will pave the way for others to recognize.
Hopefully that is clear as it is reality, dude.
Zoran, is the Serbian electoral so uneducated that they cannot see the EU and US is destroying any party that is against membership? not very admirable that is it?
Typical Albanian answer, "Nato troops are there." Why are you hiding behind Nato?Why didn't you say something like, "We (Albanians) are waiting for you." Why don't you cowards fight for something that you believe . (ivan, 4 September 2012 17:35)
Because we are not that stupid. You did four wars and lost them all.
I actually think that the EU will be quite impressed by Dacic's climbdowns on Kosovo, but that it won't be enough. No doubt he will promise to do more and will tell them that the Serbian people need more time to 'compromise' - ie give in over Kosovo.
Dacic is wrong in thinking that this and the odd investigation in dubious privatisations is going to get him a fast track membership to the EU though.
He is also wrong to think that Kosovo is a non issue that he can do what he likes with. He is banking on the fact that the main opposition party - DS will not much if he sells the Kosovo Serbs down the river and that other Serbian political parties too small to have any impact in their objections. That is a risky calculation and although for example somebody like Djilas is not a nationalist, Djilas could decide that politically it would sensible to take a more nationalistic position on Kosovo, which would make it very difficult for the government. Things could flare up, although Dacic would count on his putting out fires management control populisticaly supporting one position one day, supporting another position the next and saying something else behind closed doors to EU officials.
So it will be all smiles today and 'my friend Martin' and at meetings it was 'yes Serbian policy on Kosovo will change'. Later to Serbian media it will be an ' warm but vigorous exchange of views stating that Serbia's position on Kosovo remains with a willingness to continue the negotiation process'
And if the EU is a "sinking ship", then why is Serbia on her knees begging to get on-board?
(Ian, UK, 4 September 2012 23:29)
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LOL! Serbian's begging to get into the EU? They are being forced and any party opposed to membership is being destroyed by the EU/US. Just look at the DSS and SRS.
Sure, it's a sinking ship but it's not under just yet so it still has some influence, just like the NAZIs in 1944. The only people begging to get into the EU are the Albanians and that won't happen unless Serbia enters first. As far as most Serbs are concerned, they don't want to join and not joining would be a blessing. My personal opinion is that we won't join and all of these negotiations are just delay tactics waiting for the EU to go under. We'll see in 2 to 3 years.
Here is what Serbs think of the EU/NATO/US etc....
Check -> http://euroasiaserbia.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/natofuckoff.jpg
Check -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObUHUMAWqVQ
We won the two important wars, WW1 and WW2. You are the ones on the losing side, always.
So tell me what four wars do you people always bring up?
(Peggy, 4 September 2012 22:57)
Serbia didn't win WW1 and WW2. They were pretty much militarily defeated and exhausted in both wars; they just happened to be on the "winning side" at the end of them so to speak.
It is a bit like saying Poland won WW2, which isn't exactly the case despite been on the "winning side".
" It is a bit like saying Poland won WW2, which isn't exactly the case despite been on the "winning side".
You could say much the same about Britain too.
Germany bled to death on the Russian front, not at Dunkirk or Normandy.
And although no match for the might of Nazi Germany, an argument can made that the Serbs delayed the German invasion of Russia just long enough to make it fatal.
But of course Belgrade knows this is going to happen even though they're telling the Serbian masses differntly. They were never going to let Serbia march straight into the EU whilst Serbia tries to block and hinder Kosovo aka the West's brainchild.
(Ian, UK, 5 September 2012 11:30)
LOL oh Ian, for a minute I actually thought you might have had an argument. Turns out you're just coming up with one of many hypothetical scenarios that conveniently fit your biases. Haven't you realized it by now? The minute they throw out "recognition" as a precondition, all bets are off. And at this point, there's no need to join the EU. Considering your high opinions of this organization, it's no loss for Brussels if Serbia doesn't join. In fact, they'd probably prefer it so they might as well throw out "recognition" as a condition to ensure Serbia stays out. Lots of us here will be more than happy. You're far too obsessed with a country you don't live in and don't come from. Whatever stock you have in Kosovo* is your own business, but the West's red headed step child has more problems of its own beyond being hamstrung by whatever Serbia chooses to do. EU candidacy, let alone membership, if it comes up for debate at all, is at least 10 - 15 years away for them and that's provided all other countries recognize its sovereignty, which if Serbia refuses to do no one else will follow through. Stalemate my friend :)
The UK, Germany France ect have invested far too much in Kosovo to give Serbia what she wants.
(Ian, UK, 5 September 2012 11:30)
You clearly haven't read the contents of the Ahtisaari Plan if you believe that. The EU will give Serbia the farm for its compliance over Kosovo. Ever been to the Serb enclaves of Kosovo? Including the ones south of the Ibar? You'd hardly think you left Serbia. Ever been to Prizren? I don't know how many Serbs are left there but the SPC has a huge influence in the town's historical district, much to the annoyance of local Albanian officials. Ever been to Gnjilane? The town is surrounded by better funded Serbian municipalities. You can thank the very powers that you believe are going to keep Serbia out of the EU for supporting such concessions, and you can thank them again when they push Pristina to accept further concessions for the sake of "normalization of relations". These powers have invested far too much in Kosovo's* stability. They don't and won't give a damn about its functionality since they're already planning a package of comprehensive autonomy for the north that effectively gives those "parallel institutions" powers of self government.
You also going to win WW3 and WW4. The only thing you lost is four wars in 1990s.
And sorry Peggy nobody in Serbia listen to you about negotiations.
(gjon fusha, 5 September 2012 04:23)
===================================
WHAT 4 WARS? Please tell us which wars are they. I have already explained how the wars I think you are referring to were not lost or even fought in Slovenia's case. So tell us WHICH FOUR WARS?
Gjon
Serbia did not participate in a war, it was Serbs of Bosnia and Croatia who did, and yes in 1999
when the Serbian army entered Kosovo Nato intervened... but Serbia did not lose!
Ian
Hmm Serbia won their battles in WW1 then retreated and regrouped and together with the French and English and Russians drove the Austrians and Bulgarians away from their territory!
Also the Bulgarians were begging the French to NOT let the Serbs have revenge for the horrors they committed in Serbia(Serbia should have razed Sofia to the ground) as revenge!!!
In WW2 Serbia incl Yugoslavia freed themselves(partisans and cetniks) from Nazi occupation unlike any other European country that was freed by The Russians or Americans!!!
Northern Ireland for the Irish and Independent Scotland!!! ;)
If they want recognition to be a condition, make it official now and allow Serbia to either make the necessary arrangements, or tell them to bugger off.
(Balkan Anthropologist, 5 September 2012 05:52)
Because if they make it a condition now, it'd be no fun. They'll drop the bombshell of Kosovo Recogntion in return for EU Membership after Serbia has closed all 33 Acquis Chapters. Serbia will be so close to EU membership she'll be able to smell and taste it. Serbia will be right at the finish line in terms of joing the EU, then there will be that one last hurdle ie recognising Kosovo. All that hard work and effort Serbia will have put into joining the EU will have been for nothing unless Serbia recognises Kosovo. Dirty politics I tell thee.
The UK, Germany France ect have invested far too much in Kosovo to give Serbia what she wants. This is why the recognise Kosovo bombshell will be dropped on Serbia when she is at her most vulnerable. Why waste it now when it can be used more effectively at a later date?
But of course Belgrade knows this is going to happen even though they're telling the Serbian masses differntly. They were never going to let Serbia march straight into the EU whilst Serbia tries to block and hinder Kosovo aka the West's brainchild.
And although no match for the might of Nazi Germany, an argument can made that the Serbs delayed the German invasion of Russia just long enough to make it fatal.
(Dorothy, 5 September 2012 13:33)
Of course, as an argument can also be made that the alignment of the planets in the solar system made it fatal :)
That's what Tito tried. It didn't work because it was never enough. Who's going to pay, certainly not the UK, Germany or France for much longer.
(Wake Up and Smell the Coffee, 5 September 2012 12:10)
and certainly not Serbia... also considering than Serbia is much poorer than any of the three countries mentioned above, it is much more likely that Kosovo becomes a province of UK, Germany or France, then Serbia's.
and certainly not Serbia... also considering than Serbia is much poorer than any of the three countries mentioned above, it is much more likely that Kosovo becomes a province of UK, Germany or France, then Serbia's.
(icj1, 6 September 2012 04:47)
Nope and irrelevant. The party is over. Albanians will have to work and pay for themselves for once and will have to take account for their own actions for the first time.
I don't know how anyone can think that the UK, France, Germany, Netherlands, Belgium, Slovenia, Croatia, Hungary, Sweden ect were going to allow Serbia into the EU without recognising Kosovo first. I doubt Serbia will be joining any International Organisation where the West can block Serbia, until Kosovo is recognised by Sebria.
And those who believed that Serbia would join the EU with Kosovo in Serbia's boarders are the biggest fools of all.
Good. High time for Serbia to say f*** off to this union anyway. There is a high possibility that the EU will either completely collapse, or take new form by the time Serbia is even able to join it anyway. And even if by some miracle the EU remains intact and they ask Serbia to join...just look at Bulgaria and Romania the two countries that border and are most similar to Serbia to see what their results have been.
Obviously the elites in the former Eastern bloc countries (former communists not euro enthusiasts) got really rich off membership. But people? Not so much. Lets not even begin to mention the farmers who have been stuck bearing the chains of EU regulation that has left agriculture and other forms of domestic economy in complete ruins.
The people of Europe did not sacrifice so that Germany could once again rule over it. The 4th Riech=the EU. What Germany couldn't do with tanks and guns they are trying to do with finances. But as reports will show you, the EU is a failed institution and the jig is up very, very soon.
The EU can go to hell and take Van Rompuy, Ashton and Barosso with it. But Kosovo i Metohija, our Jerusalem is a matter of life and death as well as a condition to the survival of our nation. Without it, we will and we deserve to go completely extinct.
Let's be clear about one thing, the decision about membership of ANY country in the EU is not for the European Parliament to take but for the member states. Obviously the EP is an important body within the EU framework and its opinion cannot be completely discounted but at present, as the article points out, several countries do not recognise Kosovo and therefore recognition by Serbia cannot be a condition for membership. If this sort of hot air continues MEPs would be advised to sell rides in a balloon so at least some benefit is derived from it.
(ned taylor, 4 September 2012 14:23)
The UK, Germany, France and co don't have to ratify Serbia's EU membership if they don't want to. There is no chance in hell they'll do this until Serbia recognises Kosovo. They can also veto Serbia's EU membership too. Their gang, their rules.
Welcome to reality.
No recognition of Kosovo = no EU membership for Serbia.
Let's wait and see how far the EU and euro zone will deteriorate and or break apart, before we worry too much about what these Eurocrats want. I do agree though, Belgrade and Pristina should find solutions to mutual problems, but recognition of an Albanian State in KiM certainly does not need be a part of the solution. The EU can jibber jabber all it wants, it's hand is weakening by the week, and so are th weight of its demands.
Let's be clear about one thing, the decision about membership of ANY country in the EU is not for the European Parliament to take but for the member states. Obviously the EP is an important body within the EU framework and its opinion cannot be completely discounted but at present, as the article points out, several countries do not recognise Kosovo and therefore recognition by Serbia cannot be a condition for membership. If this sort of hot air continues MEPs would be advised to sell rides in a balloon so at least some benefit is derived from it.
(ned taylor, 4 September 2012 14:23)
Are a lot of you that make analyses with tool of desire, not with tool of reality? What you are saying is that for Kosova is not possible, cause to 5/27 countries of EU. You forget that for same reasons is not possible for Serbia. 22/27 countries of EU don’t recognize Serbia with its constitutional borders.
With the actual political situation of World and EU the equation is so and is simple:
If Serbia don’t want, for Kosova is impossible to enter EU. Otherwise if Kosova don’t want, for Serbia is impossible to enter EU.
"oh yes ivan, serbia is seriously going to engage in a war with Kosova, given all those NATO troops there :-) typical balkan bravado...nothing more
(Nikolle, 4 September 2012 17:02)"
Nikolle:
Typical Albanian answer, "Nato troops are there." Why are you hiding behind Nato? Why didn't you say something like, "We (Albanians) are waiting for you." Why don't you cowards fight for something that you believe is yours? Why depend on someone to steal it for you? Apart from the Evil Empire, I do not believe any Nato troops will fight for you. I read a few articles that Satan now wants to make a deal with Iran, leaving Israel to fend for itself. If Satan could betray Israel in such a way, the Albanians are nothing in comparison, so just wait until it happens to you. You will be on the other side of the Adriatic by the time we get through with you.
Let's wait and see how far the EU and euro zone will deteriorate and or break apart, before we worry too much about what these Eurocrats want. I do agree though, Belgrade and Pristina should find solutions to mutual problems, but recognition of an Albanian State in KiM certainly does not need be a part of the solution. The EU can jibber jabber all it wants, it's hand is weakening by the week, and so are th weight of its demands.
(Ecoman, 4 September 2012 14:33)
# Comment link
Lol if you thnk EU is broke then Serbia is the whole in my toilet lol when the west says you have to recognize Kosovo then you do it because you just do it :D
I don't even understand what this EU comotion is all about? One, how many other EU countries had to forfeit a portion of their territory for membership? Answer: None. Two, what can a bankrupt EU ever offer to Serbia for such a high demand. Answer: Nothing. Wars are fought for less territory than that. Example, Great britain and the Faulkland Islands. Why didn't the former relinguish their custody to Argentina? Three, even if the EU would grant Serbia a few loans, is giving up your territory worth it? Answer: No. Let's face it friends, this has nothing to do with EU membership, it's all a smoke screen for the real objective. The Evil Empire wants influence in this part of the world and that is all!! The EU is on the verge of extinction and they're still going to be asking for Kosovo, this time under another pretense. Milosevic is gone, what is Nato still doing there? The real question is, what is Serbia going to do? Are they willing to engage in another war? If not, this extortion will never end? In my opinion, Serbia has the right people in the proper places. Putin is in power and the US has its hands full economically and in global wars. Nato would never agree to another bombing of Serbia. Vucic was in Russia shopping for the latest military technology. So the time is right Serbia. Get rid of the garbage!!
We have been saying this for at least half a decade that Serbia will not join the union without formal recognition of Kosovo. Brussels learned their lesson well with Cyprus.
Let's be clear about one thing, the decision about membership of ANY country in the EU is not for the European Parliament to take but for the member states. Obviously the EP is an important body within the EU framework and its opinion cannot be completely discounted but at present, as the article points out, several countries do not recognise Kosovo and therefore recognition by Serbia cannot be a condition for membership. If this sort of hot air continues MEPs would be advised to sell rides in a balloon so at least some benefit is derived from it.
Nothing new here. Just the German brigade and friends trying to insist that recognition of Kosovo is inevitable when it isn't.
As for joining the EU, the Lisbon Agreement which comes in to force soon states that EU membership will then fall under Qualified Majority Voting of the EP. Only foreign policy does the Council of Ministers retain a veto. They are not the same thing.
Serbia only needs a majority of the votes in the EP which by the time it is ready to join (if it wants). By then there will be different MEPs and there will be different governments in the member states. If the EP now demands that Serbia must recognized Kosovo* soon, then it is a new condition and it will be clear (yet again) how corrupt the whole process of joining the EU is.
In that time Pristina could quite easily fall apart, not to mention the problems caused by albanians in FYROM etc. No Serbia in the EU, no Kosovo* in the EU.
Again, absolutely nothing new. Time is on Serbia's side.
Yeah, well, Serbia would like Tony Blair and Bill Clinton tried and convicted for war crimes against our country, also, Germany, Austria and Croatia to pay compensation for horrific genocide of our people and destruction of our property during WWII and during 1990 civil war. What else? Yeah, we'd like international vultures and k-albanian criminals out of Kosovo and restoration of Serbia's rightful sovereign rule over it's entire territory.
So, let's talk about how we can both make compromises to get something of what we both want, shall we?
(ned taylor, 4 September 2012 14:23)
You contradict yourself, first you say the decision is not for the EP but each individual member states. Then you say that recognition cannot be a requirement.
If Serbia must secure approval from EACH member state to be accepted then you have 5 that will not require recognition and up to 22 that will for their "individual" vote.
If Serbia only needs a consensus from the EU as a whole then it would not be a requirement as there is no consensus on the subject.
But you were right in that Serbia must satisfy all requirements presented in a consenus from the EU(which does not require recognition), but then must also secure each members vote(which may or may not require recognition)
Kosovo is a condition for Serbia to lose its national sovereignty in order to join the EU-NATO the fascist masonic organization,no thanks Brussels we have mother RUSSIA.Serbia not only should join Russia but also the Republika Srpska then will becomes a complete state with 8.8 million resident and an area of 103,000 square kilometers.These should be the goals of Serbia not the West,Serbia should not be submitted,our brother state Russia by 2016 will surpass the British,French,Italian economy so will be the 6th largest economy of the world and up to 2020 will be the first economy in Europe and the fourth in the world,while the West is in deep economic crisis.
Down the EU-NATO with the west,long live RUSSIA.
No recognition of Kosovo = no EU membership for Serbia.
(Ian, UK, 4 September 2012 14:43)
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No Serbia in the EU = No "Kosova"* in the EU.
Now it seems Serbians aren't as enthusiastic about the EU as you local K*-Albanians. By the time Serbia is ready for the EU, there will be more viable alternatives available.
Germany has a good reputation of making a mess of Europe and I believe it will live up to its reputation this time around also. The EU is in a pretty bad state. History repeating... In 10 years time, I don't even think the UK will exist...
Now if 5 EU countries do not recognize Kosovo and at least 2 or three that have recognized sort of regret they did, how can the entire EP want Serbia to do so as a requirement? Schultz is getting ahead of himself. The whole "be nice to each other" policy is the only one that seems to work; provided Pristina's leaders don't come up with another stupid idea of pissing off the Serb contingent as a way of "integrating" them into their failing state.
No recognition of Kosovo = no EU membership for Serbia.
(Ian, UK, 4 September 2012 14:43)
LOL I can't decide whether that's a threat or a promise given the current circumstances :)
The best option is not to listen what EU or Russia is saying. Kosovo Albanians and Kosovo Serbs together with Serbia and Albania decide for their future in Kosovo. They could agree to divide Kosovo or to make free place for Albania and Serbia. Which means that both Serbia and Albania would control Kosovo. Mutual agreement. Just forget the history and cooperate together find solutions. In this way we together could tell to EU and Russia that we are enough adult so we can deal with the situation. Believe me most of Serbs and Albanians do not have any problem with each other. Politicians have problem not people.
Because we are not that stupid. You did four wars and lost them all. Stupid.
(gjon fusha, 4 September 2012 21:04)
============================
What four wars are you talking about? There was NO WAR in Slovenia. Yugoslav army (not Serbian army then) did not fight back. There was no war.
Bosnia is successfully partitioned (RS) and your Muslim brothers have no say in what goes on there.
The only place where Serbs lost, and not to Croats mind you but to NATO, was in Croatia. That war was fought by Serbs from Croatia NOT Serbia.
We won the two important wars, WW1 and WW2. You are the ones on the losing side, always.
So tell me what four wars do you people always bring up?
Serbia should just stop any negotiations with Hashis because it is Serbian land. If it costs them EU then that's even better.
So maybe mr Schultz will urge Azerbaijan to to accept the reality and recognize independent Karabakh??
Or maybe mr Schultz will urge Georgia to to accept the reality and recognize independent Ossetia and Abkhazia??
EU will undergo some transformation, as currently isn't functioning well. It's questionable what form it will take in the future.
But, this is not a question of any urgency for Serbia, as it it clear that it will not join (even if we wanted to - that too, is questionable) for next 10 years.
Reforms should be carried out.
But, why would anyone be in a hurry to satisfy all the conditions for EU membership?
Why is it so many people refuse to recognise that the EU is in deep do do.
I wouldn't worry about EU membership at all for any South Eastern Europeans, I don't want to see anyone end up like Greece, but that's what is going to happen and it will if they get membership.
Bulgaria have decided that they don't want membership the way things are now, and things don't look like improving anytime soon. The EU is not a good place to be so why the hell would anyone with any common sense want to be a member anyway?? It beats the hell out of me.
Even the Germans see the future, they are starting to use the Deutchmark in some places and that tells us that things are not right in the Eurozone. Check it out if you don't believe me.
Typical Albanian answer, "Nato troops are there." Why are you hiding behind Nato?Why didn't you say something like, "We (Albanians) are waiting for you." Why don't you cowards fight for something that you believe . (ivan, 4 September 2012 17:35)
Because we are not that stupid. You did four wars and lost them all. Stupid.
This, believes the EP president, is difficult "but not impossible", while European Council President Herman Van Rompuy and others in the EU are facing "an internal problem" when it comes to such a resolution to the Kosovo problem: not all EU members recognize Kosovo.
However, Schultz explained, the EU as a whole wants Serbia to recognize it.
Full off contradictions this man.
It is always the old same song.
NATO bombs failed and that is a fact. Kosovo is still part off serbia until the UN resolution 1244 exists !
Soon Serbia's gonverment will realise that Kosova is a lost battle like "the footnote" issue.
Sooner better for serbian people.Also sooner they realise thet they can not govern in Kosova,the better chanses to get a better compromise and enter in EU.
P.S Its ironic to see some serbs who comfortably live in West, are calling for Serbia to join Russia and its allies and turning Serbia a little Venezuela of Balkan.Do as I say dont do as I do-their message.
The only way that people of Balkan to prosper is to join EU and West.West has been in the front of the world since the antiquity with Rome and Athens, Renaissance and industrial revolution and will be for a long time on top,even thout along the way West has suffered 2 World Wars and numerous crisis.In the end of the day:West is the best!
It is reality. Get used to it.
(Ian, UK, 4 September 2012 17:37)
LOL we've been "used" to it for over 10 years. Nothing ever changes with you higher ups thinking you've got an edge in the argument. You say one thing one day, you change rhetoric the next because you have no consensus. Here's some reality for you:
5 EU states do not recognize Kosovo. Serbia is under no precondition to do what 5 member states do not and will not unless Serbia does. And even 2 or even 3 of those 5 eventually do, you need all members to reach consensus. And if Serbia is kept out, what gives you any hope "Kosova" will ever get anywhere near the EU? Thanks but no thanks Ian, we're happy to be outside that sinking ship and if the only thing keeping us out is our wayward southern province trying to masquerade as something other than a failed idea, I should thank you and others for your continuous condescending attitudes towards us. I only thought you reserved such "get used to it" tactics towards the Turks :)
You will be on the other side of the Adriatic by the time we get through with you.
(ivan, 4 September 2012 17:35
Oh Yes, same thing as Palestine and Syria saying bout Israel.we will through you in the sea and then is all yours...When we say NATO now we mean Albania 'cose since 2008 its a full member, so remember we don't need Aviano to fly the war planes to you any more like in 1999 - remember? (I am sure you do) now we have Durres,Vlora, Saranda etc..so your dreams are out of dated and belongs to the middle age. but make no mistake this is what majority Serbsw think but we know that.
Serbia only needs a majority of the votes in the EP which by the time it is ready to join (if it wants). By then there will be different MEPs and there will be different governments in the member states.
Again, absolutely nothing new. Time is on Serbia's side.
(EU Dude, 4 September 2012 16:29)
You do realize that with your statement, if it is true, you are saying that Kosovo will also be able to join the EU, as it already has a majority of support in the EP? The Serbian argument has always been that one of the 5 would block membership to the EU.
And if the EU is a "sinking ship", then why is Serbia on her knees begging to get on-board?
(Ian, UK, 4 September 2012 23:29)
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LOL! Serbian's begging to get into the EU? They are being forced and any party opposed to membership is being destroyed by the EU/US. Just look at the DSS and SRS.
Sure, it's a sinking ship but it's not under just yet so it still has some influence, just like the NAZIs in 1944. The only people begging to get into the EU are the Albanians and that won't happen unless Serbia enters first. As far as most Serbs are concerned, they don't want to join and not joining would be a blessing. My personal opinion is that we won't join and all of these negotiations are just delay tactics waiting for the EU to go under. We'll see in 2 to 3 years.
Here is what Serbs think of the EU/NATO/US etc....
Check -> http://euroasiaserbia.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/natofuckoff.jpg
Check -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObUHUMAWqVQ
I actually think that the EU will be quite impressed by Dacic's climbdowns on Kosovo, but that it won't be enough. No doubt he will promise to do more and will tell them that the Serbian people need more time to 'compromise' - ie give in over Kosovo.
Dacic is wrong in thinking that this and the odd investigation in dubious privatisations is going to get him a fast track membership to the EU though.
He is also wrong to think that Kosovo is a non issue that he can do what he likes with. He is banking on the fact that the main opposition party - DS will not much if he sells the Kosovo Serbs down the river and that other Serbian political parties too small to have any impact in their objections. That is a risky calculation and although for example somebody like Djilas is not a nationalist, Djilas could decide that politically it would sensible to take a more nationalistic position on Kosovo, which would make it very difficult for the government. Things could flare up, although Dacic would count on his putting out fires management control populisticaly supporting one position one day, supporting another position the next and saying something else behind closed doors to EU officials.
So it will be all smiles today and 'my friend Martin' and at meetings it was 'yes Serbian policy on Kosovo will change'. Later to Serbian media it will be an ' warm but vigorous exchange of views stating that Serbia's position on Kosovo remains with a willingness to continue the negotiation process'
Serbia will do best when it calmly negotiates trade, educational, scientific and cultural agreements with the EU -and stays out of membership talks in case it's blackmailed. For that Serbia needs clever and cool headed politicians and wise citizenry. Serbia should study agreements Norway has with the EU. That's the way to go.
The main issue is to develop Serbian agriculture and small size industry. There are for example a number of excellent young Serbian designers of household things. If their are supported from private or state funds they will show the way for the inventive younger generation how to brake thru to European and world market.
Serbs, stop crying. All is in your hands. The answer just is something else than nationalism or fake morals.
You're problem is that you're looking at it as some sort of official EU pre-condition for membership which is not the case. Kosovo recognition will be a pre-condition for getting the UK, Germany, France ect to ratify Serbia's membership bid; which without Serbia cannot join. They don't care what the 5 non-recognisers think. If we go straight for Serbia, we're by-passing the middleman. And Serbia will keep trotting along following the EU's carrot on a stick. No EU consensus is needed this way. An EU consensus isn't needed to bock, stop or veto Serbia's membership application. So much for Serbia's strong allies within the EU. If we want to block Serbia's membership bid until she recognises Kosovo we can and we will.
Charles de Gaulle twice vetoed the UK's bid to join the block, what is stopping someone from doing that to Serbia? You don't need an EU consensus for a veto.
And if the EU is a "sinking ship", then why is Serbia on her knees begging to get on-board?
We won the two important wars, WW1 and WW2. You are the ones on the losing side, always.
Serbia should just stop any negotiations with Hashis because it is Serbian land. If it costs them EU then that's even better.
(Peggy, 4 September 2012 22:57)
You also going to win WW3 and WW4. The only thing you lost is four wars in 1990s.
And sorry Peggy nobody in Serbia listen to you about negotiations.
what the hell is this crap? Serbia won world war? yes so what? so did America and Britain. what the hell does this have to do with today? oh yes I know now, we have individuals like Ari Gold and Ivan who serioulsy believe that Serbia should declare war over Kosova. well, there is a straight answer to that, no matter how important Kosova is in the Serbian myth, no rational Serb is going to declare war on it now and more than likely ever again. you van sell bravery on B92 all you like, its not going to happen
It still does not even have majority support by UN member states. Do you understand now?
(EU Dude, 4 September 2012 22:59)
Kosovo does not have a majority of FORMAL recognitions, but with the vote to join WB shows a majority of SUPPORT, from UN countries. Do you understand now?
Also it is as clear as anyone can make it, Serbia is NOT joining the EU while claiming Kosovo as its province. Actual recognition is not a requirement. Dropping its claim will pave the way for others to recognize.
Hopefully that is clear as it is reality, dude.
You also going to win WW3 and WW4. The only thing you lost is four wars in 1990s.
And sorry Peggy nobody in Serbia listen to you about negotiations.
(gjon fusha, 5 September 2012 04:23)
===================================
WHAT 4 WARS? Please tell us which wars are they. I have already explained how the wars I think you are referring to were not lost or even fought in Slovenia's case. So tell us WHICH FOUR WARS?
If they want recognition to be a condition, make it official now and allow Serbia to either make the necessary arrangements, or tell them to bugger off.
(Balkan Anthropologist, 5 September 2012 05:52)
Because if they make it a condition now, it'd be no fun. They'll drop the bombshell of Kosovo Recogntion in return for EU Membership after Serbia has closed all 33 Acquis Chapters. Serbia will be so close to EU membership she'll be able to smell and taste it. Serbia will be right at the finish line in terms of joing the EU, then there will be that one last hurdle ie recognising Kosovo. All that hard work and effort Serbia will have put into joining the EU will have been for nothing unless Serbia recognises Kosovo. Dirty politics I tell thee.
The UK, Germany France ect have invested far too much in Kosovo to give Serbia what she wants. This is why the recognise Kosovo bombshell will be dropped on Serbia when she is at her most vulnerable. Why waste it now when it can be used more effectively at a later date?
But of course Belgrade knows this is going to happen even though they're telling the Serbian masses differntly. They were never going to let Serbia march straight into the EU whilst Serbia tries to block and hinder Kosovo aka the West's brainchild.
We won the two important wars, WW1 and WW2. You are the ones on the losing side, always.
So tell me what four wars do you people always bring up?
(Peggy, 4 September 2012 22:57)
Serbia didn't win WW1 and WW2. They were pretty much militarily defeated and exhausted in both wars; they just happened to be on the "winning side" at the end of them so to speak.
It is a bit like saying Poland won WW2, which isn't exactly the case despite been on the "winning side".
Typical Albanian answer, "Nato troops are there." Why are you hiding behind Nato?Why didn't you say something like, "We (Albanians) are waiting for you." Why don't you cowards fight for something that you believe . (ivan, 4 September 2012 17:35)
Because we are not that stupid. You did four wars and lost them all.
" It is a bit like saying Poland won WW2, which isn't exactly the case despite been on the "winning side".
You could say much the same about Britain too.
Germany bled to death on the Russian front, not at Dunkirk or Normandy.
And although no match for the might of Nazi Germany, an argument can made that the Serbs delayed the German invasion of Russia just long enough to make it fatal.
Think about it: There is no contradiction in what I said. Recognition of Kosovo by Serbia will not be a formal condition of EU membership. Clearly there will be some countries who push for recognition behind the scenes and individuals like the man who is the subject of this article who do so overtly, but you assume that EU countries view this issue as pivotal; they do not. If Serbia can show that it has a sound economy and will contribute positively to EU wide GDP then Kosovo will fade into the background. Money trumps everything!!
Zoran, is the Serbian electoral so uneducated that they cannot see the EU and US is destroying any party that is against membership? not very admirable that is it?
Gjon
Serbia did not participate in a war, it was Serbs of Bosnia and Croatia who did, and yes in 1999
when the Serbian army entered Kosovo Nato intervened... but Serbia did not lose!
Ian
Hmm Serbia won their battles in WW1 then retreated and regrouped and together with the French and English and Russians drove the Austrians and Bulgarians away from their territory!
Also the Bulgarians were begging the French to NOT let the Serbs have revenge for the horrors they committed in Serbia(Serbia should have razed Sofia to the ground) as revenge!!!
In WW2 Serbia incl Yugoslavia freed themselves(partisans and cetniks) from Nazi occupation unlike any other European country that was freed by The Russians or Americans!!!
Northern Ireland for the Irish and Independent Scotland!!! ;)
You do realize that with your statement, if it is true, you are saying that Kosovo will also be able to join the EU, as it already has a majority of support in the EP? The Serbian argument has always been that one of the 5 would block membership to the EU.
(think about it, 4 September 2012 20:42)
You do realize that before the EP can QMV Kosovo* membership, that Kosovo* actually needs to be recognized as a separate state by 27/27 member states, not 22/27?
Why do you think that there is so much pressure on the outstanding 5 member states to do this if it is not a essential step???
It still does not even have majority support by UN member states. Do you understand now?
Kosovo recognition will be a pre-condition for getting the UK, Germany, France ect to ratify Serbia's membership bid; which without Serbia cannot join.
(Ian, UK, 4 September 2012 23:29)
Ok Ian, I'll bite. Let's say that happens. Then what? Whatever support remains in Serbia for EU membership (assuming the EU is even around as something worth joining by the time that happens), all but disappears. Fine by me. EU officials have been jerking Serbia around for far too long. If they want recognition to be a condition, make it official now and allow Serbia to either make the necessary arrangements, or tell them to bugger off. Schultz's comments were either overruled by Fule or misinterpreted by Dacic. Right now, we're still at "normalization of relations", and that means more than Serbs playing nice. It also means Albanians stop harassing Serbs and pushing for authority over Serbs they know they don't have and won't get. But by the time any consideration for Serbia's membership comes up, enough agreements will be made that give the K-Serbs everything they want, including substantial autonomy for the north. Even if Serbia has to recognize at that point, they'll get everything they want as the concession for recognizing.
And if the EU is a "sinking ship", then why is Serbia on her knees begging to get on-board?
(Ian, UK, 4 September 2012 23:29)
You're guess is as good as mine. No one here understands this drive towards a collapsing system. You want to keep us out? Be my guest!
But of course Belgrade knows this is going to happen even though they're telling the Serbian masses differntly. They were never going to let Serbia march straight into the EU whilst Serbia tries to block and hinder Kosovo aka the West's brainchild.
(Ian, UK, 5 September 2012 11:30)
LOL oh Ian, for a minute I actually thought you might have had an argument. Turns out you're just coming up with one of many hypothetical scenarios that conveniently fit your biases. Haven't you realized it by now? The minute they throw out "recognition" as a precondition, all bets are off. And at this point, there's no need to join the EU. Considering your high opinions of this organization, it's no loss for Brussels if Serbia doesn't join. In fact, they'd probably prefer it so they might as well throw out "recognition" as a condition to ensure Serbia stays out. Lots of us here will be more than happy. You're far too obsessed with a country you don't live in and don't come from. Whatever stock you have in Kosovo* is your own business, but the West's red headed step child has more problems of its own beyond being hamstrung by whatever Serbia chooses to do. EU candidacy, let alone membership, if it comes up for debate at all, is at least 10 - 15 years away for them and that's provided all other countries recognize its sovereignty, which if Serbia refuses to do no one else will follow through. Stalemate my friend :)
The UK, Germany France ect have invested far too much in Kosovo to give Serbia what she wants.
(Ian, UK, 5 September 2012 11:30)
You clearly haven't read the contents of the Ahtisaari Plan if you believe that. The EU will give Serbia the farm for its compliance over Kosovo. Ever been to the Serb enclaves of Kosovo? Including the ones south of the Ibar? You'd hardly think you left Serbia. Ever been to Prizren? I don't know how many Serbs are left there but the SPC has a huge influence in the town's historical district, much to the annoyance of local Albanian officials. Ever been to Gnjilane? The town is surrounded by better funded Serbian municipalities. You can thank the very powers that you believe are going to keep Serbia out of the EU for supporting such concessions, and you can thank them again when they push Pristina to accept further concessions for the sake of "normalization of relations". These powers have invested far too much in Kosovo's* stability. They don't and won't give a damn about its functionality since they're already planning a package of comprehensive autonomy for the north that effectively gives those "parallel institutions" powers of self government.
And although no match for the might of Nazi Germany, an argument can made that the Serbs delayed the German invasion of Russia just long enough to make it fatal.
(Dorothy, 5 September 2012 13:33)
Of course, as an argument can also be made that the alignment of the planets in the solar system made it fatal :)
That's what Tito tried. It didn't work because it was never enough. Who's going to pay, certainly not the UK, Germany or France for much longer.
(Wake Up and Smell the Coffee, 5 September 2012 12:10)
and certainly not Serbia... also considering than Serbia is much poorer than any of the three countries mentioned above, it is much more likely that Kosovo becomes a province of UK, Germany or France, then Serbia's.
and certainly not Serbia... also considering than Serbia is much poorer than any of the three countries mentioned above, it is much more likely that Kosovo becomes a province of UK, Germany or France, then Serbia's.
(icj1, 6 September 2012 04:47)
Nope and irrelevant. The party is over. Albanians will have to work and pay for themselves for once and will have to take account for their own actions for the first time.
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