EU “will ask Serbia to recognize Kosovo”

Don't fool yourself, Serbia will have to regognize Kosovo's existence sooner or later, if it wants to join the EU,
(Willi Pfaff, 26 May 2012 15:24)

Don't worry Willi, the bankrupt EU will not survive much longer, and Serbia does not want to join this German run club of unequals. Better you worry about Germany, and quit sticking your nose into Serbian affairs which are none of your business. German meddling into Serbia has caused this mess in the first place. You can give orders to your bootlicking historical allies, but Serbs will always be free and independent, and you will never control her.
Cheers!!

Don't fool yourself, Serbia will have to regognize Kosovo's existence sooner or later, if it wants to join the EU, and what is even more import, if it wants peace in the Balkans. Serbia never will be able to rule in Kosova ever again, simply because the people of Kosovo do not want this to ever happen again after the drauma of the latest war. If it ever should be attempted, Nato and the entire West will prevent it, and it would be the end of Serbia as a sovereign state. The immense resources, moneywise, politicalwise, well in any which way, which are constasntly wasted by trying to fight the reality on the Balkans should be used to improve the living conditions for all people anywhere in the Balkans. Peace, reconciliation, recognition and cooperation on an ecconomic as well as political level is the only way out of this dilema. That alone would tricker ecconomic growth anywhere in the Balkans, something which is desperatly needed, and on top of it would change the image Serbia still has not just in Europe, but in big parts of the world. It is a win -win solution to the mess which was created by Serbia in the 90's, and it would be especially in the intrest of all people living in the entire area.

Serbijan people are you still dreaming that KOSOVA is not independent ?. Please wake up.!

“The Serbian public should know that the EU will soon start with the most brutal pressure and blackmails, requesting from Serbia to completely give up on Kosovo in order to start the EU accession talks. Such messages are already being brought by diplomats from the EU states,” Koštunica told Beta news agency.

Yes, the EU diplomats travel to Belgrade and bring these messages especially to Kostunica, one of the most important politicians of the most important party in Serbia (his party reached some 7% of the votes).

On 17 May 2012, here at B 92, the DS that includes Boris Tadic said that the presidential runoff will be a Referendum on joining the European Union.

We know that the Voters Vote NO to joining the European Union in that Vote where the DS urged the Voters to use it as a Referendum.

On 25 May 2012, here at B 92, Tadic speaking for the entire DS stated that the Most Important Goal of a new Government should be the start of Membership Negotiations with the European Union, and this Tadic and the DS are saying, regardless that the Voters said NO to that Referendum on joining the European Union, and it only shows the Contempt that Tadic and the DS have for Democracy.

Serbijan people are you still dreaming that KOSOVA is not independent ?. Please wake up.!
(johon, 26 May 2012 15:13)

Yes, and ironically, Albanians in Kosovo have a similar dream: They dream that Kosovo IS independent. Maybe they'll wake up one day, too :)

Kostunica is absolutely right, and has been from day one. All I am hoping is that he can influence Nikolic, they did sign an agreement before the second vote, and it doesn't look like Kostunica, who is true to his beliefs, will change his mind. Nikolic on the other hand isn't very bright, and is easily influenced, so Kostunica hopefully can persuade him away from EU membership. Also hopefully with increased ties with Russia Serbia can begin to look to its natural ally.

The Serbian people will never give up kosovo province even in exchange of an EU seat.

Thank GOD Tadic was removed and a new nationalist president was elected. :)

Yes, the EU diplomats travel to Belgrade and bring these messages especially to Kostunica, one of the most important politicians of the most important party in Serbia (his party reached some 7% of the votes).
(Comm. Parrisson, 26 May 2012 14:51)
--
I don't understand your point. I have also heard from Western diplomats that Nikolic is expected to recognise "Kosova"* and I get 0% of the vote. That is why he was made president and that is why the SNS and DS will form a government. They have a set agenda and Nikolic already knows what he needs to do and by when.

I'll repeat once again. Serbia is currently under occupation and unless we get an SNS/SPS/DSS government (unlikely), the occupation will continue unabated. This comes from the diplomatic grapevine and Kostunica is just saying how it is.

Just one thing to remember. This is all being dictated on a shaky EU foundation and should that foundation crack, so will all of the demands.

“The Serbian public should know that the EU will soon start with the most brutal pressure and blackmails, requesting from Serbia to completely give up on Kosovo in order to start the EU accession talks. Such messages are already being brought by diplomats from the EU states,” Koštunica told Beta news agency.

Yes, the EU diplomats travel to Belgrade and bring these messages especially to Kostunica, one of the most important politicians of the most important party in Serbia (his party reached some 7% of the votes).
(Comm. Parrisson, 26 May 2012 14:51)

You don't believe that EU will soon start with the most brutal pressure and blackmails, requesting from Serbia to completely give up on Kosovo in order to start the EU accession talks?

One doesn't have to be the most popular politician in Serbia to know it.

"Don't worry Willi, the bankrupt EU will not survive much longer, and Serbia does not want to join this German run club of unequals."
(Dragan, 26 May 2012 16:00)

Maybe Serbia doesn't want it, but obviously the vast majority of the Serbs who voted for pro-EU parties and candidates (Nicolic included) want it. Otherwise, they would have voted for Kostunica.

Why should Serbia join the Eu it makes no sense. The Eu is in a crisis and about to collapse. Please Nikolic stay away from the EU.

all those saying kosovo is serbia should join their brothers and move there. not just talk from the other side of the fence.

talk is cheap.

I bet Serbia will recognise independence of Kosovo in 2014.

You don't believe that EU will soon start with the most brutal pressure and blackmails, requesting from Serbia to completely give up on Kosovo in order to start the EU accession talks?

One doesn't have to be the most popular politician in Serbia to know it.
(aaayyy, 26 May 2012 18:00)
Lets see if you are right.
1. Visa Liberalization for Serbia, Serbia had to not include Kosovo to get it.
2. SAA for Serbia, Serbia had to not include Kosovo to get it.
3. Candidate status for Serbia, Serbia had to not include Kosovo to get it.
By George, I think you are right, and from the looks of things Serbia is only too willing to comply.
Of course I guess Serbia could throw all that in the trash and start from scratch including their southern province, but then you know and I know that door would be shut, bolted and rusted over wouldn't it?

"We know that the Voters Vote NO to joining the European Union in that Vote where the DS urged the Voters to use it as a Referendum. "
(Yet Another J S, 26 May 2012 15:57)

Strange. I only know that the votes for Kostunica and other candidates (like Seslj's wife) who oppose the EU were negligible. In the second round, Serbs voted for Nicolic who said that he doesn't oppose Serbia's access to the EU.

thank God Nikolic and Kostunica formed a coalition...these two wnt deceive the people as tadic did. our southern province will not be recognized. and..worse comes to worse..we stay out of the broke and failing EU! sounds like a no brainer to me

"“Nobody will be able to deceive the Serbian citizens anymore when it comes to the EU’s policy toward Kosovo. Time has come for the truth and it is up to President Tomislav Nikolić to tell it to the Serbian people once the EU has informed him about the conditions for the beginning of the EU accession talks,” the DSS leader explained"

says the man who sold a good deal of Serbia and is knee deep in corruption.
So much for the truth.

Who gives a damn STUFF THE EU and to hell with NATO!!

Only an idiot would want to join those dying entities. The west has always sold Serbia down the river, we owe nothing to them not now not ever. It's Russia and China who are the up and coming powers. NATO and the EU are soon to be has beens and those of you who have been hiding behind them don't like it one bit. The USA would be in big trouble if China pulls the plug on them and it would be Good bye USA and goodbye EU, those are the facts of life. NATO and the EU.....what a joke!!

I bet Serbia will recognise independence of Kosovo in 2014.
(Milica, 26 May 2012 18:25)

I will bet you 600 dinars that Serbia won't recognize Kosovo in 2014.

"I don't understand your point. I have also heard from Western diplomats that Nikolic is expected to recognise "Kosova"* and I get 0% of the vote."
(Zoran, 26 May 2012 17:02)

Good for you, I don't have personal contact to western diplomats, I can only read their statements and articles in the newspapers and here. So far, I didn't read anything from anyone that Serbia/Tadic/Nicolic is expected to recognize Kosovo*.

The Serbian people will never give up kosovo province even in exchange of an EU seat.

Thank GOD Tadic was removed and a new nationalist president was elected. :)
(PRO-SERBIA, 26 May 2012 22:24)


Of course Serbia cannot exchange an EU seat for something it does not have, but it is encouraging that, at least, in regards to Serbia's EU membership you and Albanians in Kosovo converge in the hope that Serbia never joins EU, or at least not before Kosovo. Thanks GOD Boris was removed and hopefully Tomislav will soon forget about his non-sense electoral promisses of seeking EU membership.

"Of course, since even Serbia acknowledges that Kosovo is independent from Serbia when it says that UNMIK is in charge in Kosovo and not Serbia. And what Albanians in Kosovo care about is to be independent from Serbia. "
(icj, 26 May 2012 23:12)

Ah, sorry, I should have written 'they dream Kosovo is an independent state'. No need to discuss that Albanians in Kosovo are independent from Serbia and Serbia has no say there (southern, Albanian part).
But if this is all Albaians care about, then the goal is reached, and I wonder why bribe minister Pacolli spends millions for buying recognitions. What for? Hmm, mentioning that, is he on holidays? Didn't read anything about him and a tropical island state recently :)

When will this EU bribary stop ?
I hope serbia will not listen and stay as a free country.
Kosovo was never a Yug republic. So no legal rights to become independant.

Yes, and ironically, Albanians in Kosovo have a similar dream: They dream that Kosovo IS independent. Maybe they'll wake up one day, too :)
(Comm. Parrisson, 26 May 2012 18:05)

Of course, since even Serbia acknowledges that Kosovo is independent from Serbia when it says that UNMIK is in charge in Kosovo and not Serbia. And what Albanians in Kosovo care about is to be independent from Serbia.

We can discuss about whether Kosovo is independent from UNMIK or not, but not sure if it's worth the time it's irrelevant; so let's assume that Kosovo is not independent from UNMIK.

The independence of Kosovo is really another Srebrenica massacre in the making, nothing else. The real Serbian politicians cant say it, i'll say it for them. We know it, America knows it, the EU knows it. Bosnia would've went through the same terror if General Mladic and President Karadzic werent there. There will be God-willing, many many many more wars until sort this mess out. Yea, it sounds rough. But truth is, whoever thinks Islam and Christianity can coexist should be institutionalized.

I will bet you 600 dinars that Serbia won't recognize Kosovo in 2014.
(JohnBoy, 27 May 2012 01:58)

Long-term bets have to be in € - who knows how less 600 dinars will be worth in 2014 :)

sj, 27 May 2012 12:03)
You keep saying that the west is trying to reintegrate Kosovo into Serbia...
(pss, 27 May 2012 19:34)

PSS, I certainly am not sj, and in fact disagree with him about 100% of the time so don't think that I am trying to answer for him.

I think that during the conflict and even after the conflict there were probably many western powers that believed that the end goal was to re-integrate Kosovo into Serbia. I expect that this was still the case until the negotiations between Kosovo and Serbia 6 years ago. During negotiations, everyone saw the level of animosity on both sides, and then Serbia went and tried to bypass everything by changing their constitution without even having people in Kosovo vote on it, though the substantial changes all involved Kosovo. At that point, I think that the western powers decided that reintegration was impossible, and decided that independence for Kosovo (with substantial autonomy for the Serbians living in Kosovo) was the only realistic solution.

As for whether the west is moving towards reintegration, I would say that recognizing Kosovo (which the vast majority have) is about as far away from reintegration as is possible.

Note that all of this is just my opinion, based on what I have heard and read, but I am just an American living in Kosovo, so I don't have all of sj's top secret sources. ;)

i dont have to Peggy, because apparently its well known that Albanians have bribed others for recognition (how Kosova can bribe the US and Japan and Germany and...) is not known to me

Comm. Parrisson

go ahead and prove that 'bribe' minister has bribed anyone. by the same token, serbia has bribed those who have withheld recognition.

Comm. Parrisson

I forgot to ask, do you think the bribe minister has bribed the US, Japan, Germany, France, the UK, Australia, Canada, South Korea etal as well?

(pss, 26 May 2012 21:02)
That’s not correct. Kosovo is being treated as a special case not separate – there is a difference but it would take too much space to show you in this forum. If Kosovo was separate why not let it into the EU now? What are they waiting for? Santa Clause? Or perhaps Mother Goose? Yes that would have been true 12 years ago, but today the EU is trying to reconnect the former parts as it cannot support them.
All Serbia has to do is tell all and one that Kosovo is hers and anyone trying to extract ore or establish industries without its permission will all be forced to pay later. I can guarantee you that no one will set foot in Kosovo. It’s been done before.
Kosovo is now worse than Haiti.
In the meantime you can entertain us all on the benefits of Serbia joining the EU, that’s if the EU survives. You know once Serbia joins the EU will plant money trees in Belgrade’s gardens and it will be a life of ease and no one will have to work.
On a more interesting side the Chinese are coming to the EU’s rescue and they don’t do things out of love so between trying to stay afloat and stabilize Europe, Brussels is not in the slightest interested in “forcing” Serbia to recognize Kosovo.

That alone would tricker ecconomic growth anywhere in the Balkans, something which is desperatly needed, and on top of it would change the image Serbia still has not just in Europe, but in big parts of the world. It is a win -win solution to the mess which was created by Serbia in the 90's, and it would be especially in the intrest of all people living in the entire area.
(Willi Pfaff, 26 May 2012 15:24)

Like Greece, Spain...?
Image of Serbia is based on many lies that nobody talks about in western countries, what about serbs dying in Kosovo every day? Nobody tells you nothing about this in western countries so please take some information.

Only an idiot would want to join those dying entities. The west has always sold Serbia down the river, we owe nothing to them not now not ever. It's Russia and China who are the up and coming powers...NATO and the EU.....what a joke!!
(Steve Gligorijevic, 27 May 2012 02:42)

Your posting sounds as if you are still looking for some kind of saviour from your neighbours. Maybe it would be in the whole region's best interests if people start abandoning the search for external saviours and building relations with their neighbours. Of course, as long as the existence of borders or even countries is not accepted, then there is not much progress to be made.
In any case, it does not seem to make much sense for Serbia to join the EU if there is no consensus on what the borders of Serbia actually are (Serb-Bosnia, North Kosovo, all Kosovo etc.). That is one of the sad elements of Dayton: it has stopped the killing, but the political solution is too contradictory.

"I'll repeat once again. Serbia is currently under occupation and unless we get an SNS/SPS/DSS government (unlikely), the occupation will continue unabated. This comes from the diplomatic grapevine and Kostunica is just saying how it is. "


This is getting stranger and stranger. According to Zoran, now, whether or not Serbia is "under occupation" is entirely predicated on whether or not his preferred parties are able to agree to form a coalition.

Is this some sort of telepathic struggle? Are you suggesting that this occupation some sort of psychic thought-control assault from abroad? Have you considered telling any of this to a medical professional?

We don't want Serbia's recognition.

We want UN seat.

If that can happen Serbia's recognition for us would be more or less as if South Ossetia would recognize us welcomed but who gives a f...

Ah, sorry, I should have written 'they dream Kosovo is an independent state'.
(Comm. Parrisson, 27 May 2012 09:26)

Serbs in North Kosovo would disagree with that. Don’t forget that they held a referendum about the institutions of the dream Kosovo. And I don’t believe Serbs in North Kosovo were hallucinating or dreaming.
----------

No need to discuss that Albanians in Kosovo are independent from Serbia and Serbia has no say there (southern, Albanian part).
(Comm. Parrisson, 27 May 2012 09:26)

Serbia has no say in any part in Kosovo. Northern Kosovo as well does not do what Belgrade says in case you have missed the news in recent years.
----------

But if this is all Albaians care about, then the goal is reached, and I wonder why bribe minister Pacolli spends millions for buying recognitions. What for? Hmm, mentioning that, is he on holidays? Didn't read anything about him and a tropical island state recently :)
(Comm. Parrisson, 27 May 2012 09:26)

For the same reason that Serbia spends millions (even though it is an independent state) to maintain embassies abroad.

All Serbia has to do is tell all and one that Kosovo is hers and anyone trying to extract ore or establish industries without its permission will all be forced to pay later. I can guarantee you that no one will set foot in Kosovo. It’s been done before.
(sj, 27 May 2012 12:03)

Exactly, you’re smart and you always get to the real point of the discussion. That’s why it was very important to have Vuk go to the ICJ and clear up that Kosovo’s UDI was in accordance with international law so that any potential investor in Kosovo was safe from lawsuits for any investments in accordance with Kosovo’s UDI.
----------

On a more interesting side the Chinese are coming to the EU’s rescue and they don’t do things out of love so between trying to stay afloat and stabilize Europe, Brussels is not in the slightest interested in “forcing” Serbia to recognize Kosovo.
(sj, 27 May 2012 12:03)

Of course, China is investing (assuming it is doing so) in EU bonds because it will get paid interest for those bonds as a return at the market rates. Somebody has to be naïve to believe that anything between countries is done for love - it's always money. As for Brussels “forcing” Serbia to recognize Kosovo, it is in Brussels interest because it’s a way to avoid having in the EU another bankrupt and poor country from the Balkans.

You said that Serbia has bribed others and I asked you to prove it. Why do you try to get out of answering a direct question with cr@p?
You made the accusation and I called you out on it.
(Peggy, 28 May 2012 15:47)

I don't think Serbia has bribed others... I think people like Ahmadinejad and Chavez have not recognized Kosovo because they love Serbia LOL

sj, 27 May 2012 12:03)
You keep saying that the west is trying to reintegrate Kosovo into Serbia, I cannot determine if you realize it is a lost cause and you are just trying to illicit responses such as Ron use to do about UNMIK. But you know that is nothing but BS and you have nothing to support your claims other than your imagination.
As far as giving you the benefits of Serbia joining the EU, if you look at any of my postings I don't think you will find that I am an advocate of it. I do not think that Serbia is near ready and nor deserves it. However as far as its links with Russia if it is surrounded completely by EU and NATO that will be more of a liability than an asset.
Your argument that Kosovo is a special case is true, and should the plan with Serbia go south you will see some type of "special status" granted to Kosovo as part of the EU if not full fledged membership. You know as well as anyone the argument of Russia blocking UN membership is not the same as the ones in the EU blocking EU membership. Opposition countries are not in a position of power and can be "encouraged" to drop their resistance, however, that is not a card that needs to be played for some time if ever.
I would be interested to hear any supporting evidence you have for claiming the west is moving toward Kosovo rejoining Serbia, maybe you heard it in some alley in Malaysia, or was you recently in a top level secret meeting that you are not allowed to reveal?? LOL.

The thing is that in the end serbia will stilll have to recognize kosovo..
for example crotia ...bosniaaa?....
it will take time for them to accept reality that if kosovo was really theirs and had been under their controll for years befor why is their more albanians living their even though they tryed cleansing and killing as many as you albanias they could...
96 percent of the popullation is albanian making it Albanian
GIVE UP..and.LIVE LIFE.

go ahead and prove that 'bribe' minister has bribed anyone. by the same token, serbia has bribed those who have withheld recognition.
(Nikolle, 27 May 2012 11:52)
============================

What a hypocrite. Why don't you practice as you preach and you prove what you have just said.

i dont have to Peggy, because apparently its well known that Albanians have bribed others for recognition (how Kosova can bribe the US and Japan and Germany and...) is not known to me
(Nikolle, 28 May 2012 09:59)
===============================

You said that Serbia has bribed others and I asked you to prove it. Why do you try to get out of answering a direct question with cr@p?
You made the accusation and I called you out on it.

wow Peggy, who knew Serbs were on the same level as the Americans. I thought they were on the side of good and the just :) ? by the way, i did reply to you on the other thread but mu comment wasn't published [i know you like to think you keep putting me in the box :) ]

Glenn, 27 May 2012 23:20)
I am a little confused by your post. I do not think you defended sj's position at all. You reiterated my view. I have always thought that it was origninally the plan for Kosovo and Serbia and Montenegro to form some type of joint federation. With the separation of Montenegro and the views of Serbia it quickly became obvious this was impossible.
My questions were in what way(other than to elicit some reaction) does he think the behavior of the west indicates a change in strategy. And how he could possibly think the civilized world would dare to allow Serbia to restart their original milosevic crusade.
(pss, 29 May 2012 14:29)

Sorry, pss, I was just trying to make clear that I recognized that your question was addressed to sj, so I was jumping into the conversation uninvited. I think that you pretty much nailed it on the head with your "other than to elicit some reaction" regarding sj's comments. No rational person would believe, based on observable behavior and actions, that the west is thinking about reintegration, so either sj is irrational, merely trying to get reactions, or both. And yes, while it is true that both the USA and EU are struggling financially (as sj likes to point out in each post), the relatively small amount spent in Kosovo is not the problem, and they would be crazy to not spend it if it meant the region returning to instability or open conflict.

Glenn, 27 May 2012 23:20)
I am a little confused by your post. I do not think you defended sj's position at all. You reiterated my view. I have always thought that it was origninally the plan for Kosovo and Serbia and Montenegro to form some type of joint federation. With the separation of Montenegro and the views of Serbia it quickly became obvious this was impossible.
My questions were in what way(other than to elicit some reaction) does he think the behavior of the west indicates a change in strategy. And how he could possibly think the civilized world would dare to allow Serbia to restart their original milosevic crusade.

Don't fool yourself, Serbia will have to regognize Kosovo's existence sooner or later, if it wants to join the EU, and what is even more import, if it wants peace in the Balkans. Serbia never will be able to rule in Kosova ever again, simply because the people of Kosovo do not want this to ever happen again after the drauma of the latest war. If it ever should be attempted, Nato and the entire West will prevent it, and it would be the end of Serbia as a sovereign state. The immense resources, moneywise, politicalwise, well in any which way, which are constasntly wasted by trying to fight the reality on the Balkans should be used to improve the living conditions for all people anywhere in the Balkans. Peace, reconciliation, recognition and cooperation on an ecconomic as well as political level is the only way out of this dilema. That alone would tricker ecconomic growth anywhere in the Balkans, something which is desperatly needed, and on top of it would change the image Serbia still has not just in Europe, but in big parts of the world. It is a win -win solution to the mess which was created by Serbia in the 90's, and it would be especially in the intrest of all people living in the entire area.

Serbijan people are you still dreaming that KOSOVA is not independent ?. Please wake up.!

I bet Serbia will recognise independence of Kosovo in 2014.

Don't fool yourself, Serbia will have to regognize Kosovo's existence sooner or later, if it wants to join the EU,
(Willi Pfaff, 26 May 2012 15:24)

Don't worry Willi, the bankrupt EU will not survive much longer, and Serbia does not want to join this German run club of unequals. Better you worry about Germany, and quit sticking your nose into Serbian affairs which are none of your business. German meddling into Serbia has caused this mess in the first place. You can give orders to your bootlicking historical allies, but Serbs will always be free and independent, and you will never control her.
Cheers!!

“The Serbian public should know that the EU will soon start with the most brutal pressure and blackmails, requesting from Serbia to completely give up on Kosovo in order to start the EU accession talks. Such messages are already being brought by diplomats from the EU states,” Koštunica told Beta news agency.

Yes, the EU diplomats travel to Belgrade and bring these messages especially to Kostunica, one of the most important politicians of the most important party in Serbia (his party reached some 7% of the votes).

The independence of Kosovo is really another Srebrenica massacre in the making, nothing else. The real Serbian politicians cant say it, i'll say it for them. We know it, America knows it, the EU knows it. Bosnia would've went through the same terror if General Mladic and President Karadzic werent there. There will be God-willing, many many many more wars until sort this mess out. Yea, it sounds rough. But truth is, whoever thinks Islam and Christianity can coexist should be institutionalized.

"“Nobody will be able to deceive the Serbian citizens anymore when it comes to the EU’s policy toward Kosovo. Time has come for the truth and it is up to President Tomislav Nikolić to tell it to the Serbian people once the EU has informed him about the conditions for the beginning of the EU accession talks,” the DSS leader explained"

says the man who sold a good deal of Serbia and is knee deep in corruption.
So much for the truth.

Serbijan people are you still dreaming that KOSOVA is not independent ?. Please wake up.!
(johon, 26 May 2012 15:13)

Yes, and ironically, Albanians in Kosovo have a similar dream: They dream that Kosovo IS independent. Maybe they'll wake up one day, too :)

"Don't worry Willi, the bankrupt EU will not survive much longer, and Serbia does not want to join this German run club of unequals."
(Dragan, 26 May 2012 16:00)

Maybe Serbia doesn't want it, but obviously the vast majority of the Serbs who voted for pro-EU parties and candidates (Nicolic included) want it. Otherwise, they would have voted for Kostunica.

Kostunica is absolutely right, and has been from day one. All I am hoping is that he can influence Nikolic, they did sign an agreement before the second vote, and it doesn't look like Kostunica, who is true to his beliefs, will change his mind. Nikolic on the other hand isn't very bright, and is easily influenced, so Kostunica hopefully can persuade him away from EU membership. Also hopefully with increased ties with Russia Serbia can begin to look to its natural ally.

On 17 May 2012, here at B 92, the DS that includes Boris Tadic said that the presidential runoff will be a Referendum on joining the European Union.

We know that the Voters Vote NO to joining the European Union in that Vote where the DS urged the Voters to use it as a Referendum.

On 25 May 2012, here at B 92, Tadic speaking for the entire DS stated that the Most Important Goal of a new Government should be the start of Membership Negotiations with the European Union, and this Tadic and the DS are saying, regardless that the Voters said NO to that Referendum on joining the European Union, and it only shows the Contempt that Tadic and the DS have for Democracy.

"We know that the Voters Vote NO to joining the European Union in that Vote where the DS urged the Voters to use it as a Referendum. "
(Yet Another J S, 26 May 2012 15:57)

Strange. I only know that the votes for Kostunica and other candidates (like Seslj's wife) who oppose the EU were negligible. In the second round, Serbs voted for Nicolic who said that he doesn't oppose Serbia's access to the EU.

The Serbian people will never give up kosovo province even in exchange of an EU seat.

Thank GOD Tadic was removed and a new nationalist president was elected. :)

Who gives a damn STUFF THE EU and to hell with NATO!!

Only an idiot would want to join those dying entities. The west has always sold Serbia down the river, we owe nothing to them not now not ever. It's Russia and China who are the up and coming powers. NATO and the EU are soon to be has beens and those of you who have been hiding behind them don't like it one bit. The USA would be in big trouble if China pulls the plug on them and it would be Good bye USA and goodbye EU, those are the facts of life. NATO and the EU.....what a joke!!

Yes, the EU diplomats travel to Belgrade and bring these messages especially to Kostunica, one of the most important politicians of the most important party in Serbia (his party reached some 7% of the votes).
(Comm. Parrisson, 26 May 2012 14:51)
--
I don't understand your point. I have also heard from Western diplomats that Nikolic is expected to recognise "Kosova"* and I get 0% of the vote. That is why he was made president and that is why the SNS and DS will form a government. They have a set agenda and Nikolic already knows what he needs to do and by when.

I'll repeat once again. Serbia is currently under occupation and unless we get an SNS/SPS/DSS government (unlikely), the occupation will continue unabated. This comes from the diplomatic grapevine and Kostunica is just saying how it is.

Just one thing to remember. This is all being dictated on a shaky EU foundation and should that foundation crack, so will all of the demands.

Yes, and ironically, Albanians in Kosovo have a similar dream: They dream that Kosovo IS independent. Maybe they'll wake up one day, too :)
(Comm. Parrisson, 26 May 2012 18:05)

Of course, since even Serbia acknowledges that Kosovo is independent from Serbia when it says that UNMIK is in charge in Kosovo and not Serbia. And what Albanians in Kosovo care about is to be independent from Serbia.

We can discuss about whether Kosovo is independent from UNMIK or not, but not sure if it's worth the time it's irrelevant; so let's assume that Kosovo is not independent from UNMIK.

Why should Serbia join the Eu it makes no sense. The Eu is in a crisis and about to collapse. Please Nikolic stay away from the EU.

You don't believe that EU will soon start with the most brutal pressure and blackmails, requesting from Serbia to completely give up on Kosovo in order to start the EU accession talks?

One doesn't have to be the most popular politician in Serbia to know it.
(aaayyy, 26 May 2012 18:00)
Lets see if you are right.
1. Visa Liberalization for Serbia, Serbia had to not include Kosovo to get it.
2. SAA for Serbia, Serbia had to not include Kosovo to get it.
3. Candidate status for Serbia, Serbia had to not include Kosovo to get it.
By George, I think you are right, and from the looks of things Serbia is only too willing to comply.
Of course I guess Serbia could throw all that in the trash and start from scratch including their southern province, but then you know and I know that door would be shut, bolted and rusted over wouldn't it?

"I don't understand your point. I have also heard from Western diplomats that Nikolic is expected to recognise "Kosova"* and I get 0% of the vote."
(Zoran, 26 May 2012 17:02)

Good for you, I don't have personal contact to western diplomats, I can only read their statements and articles in the newspapers and here. So far, I didn't read anything from anyone that Serbia/Tadic/Nicolic is expected to recognize Kosovo*.

all those saying kosovo is serbia should join their brothers and move there. not just talk from the other side of the fence.

talk is cheap.

"I'll repeat once again. Serbia is currently under occupation and unless we get an SNS/SPS/DSS government (unlikely), the occupation will continue unabated. This comes from the diplomatic grapevine and Kostunica is just saying how it is. "


This is getting stranger and stranger. According to Zoran, now, whether or not Serbia is "under occupation" is entirely predicated on whether or not his preferred parties are able to agree to form a coalition.

Is this some sort of telepathic struggle? Are you suggesting that this occupation some sort of psychic thought-control assault from abroad? Have you considered telling any of this to a medical professional?

When will this EU bribary stop ?
I hope serbia will not listen and stay as a free country.
Kosovo was never a Yug republic. So no legal rights to become independant.

The Serbian people will never give up kosovo province even in exchange of an EU seat.

Thank GOD Tadic was removed and a new nationalist president was elected. :)
(PRO-SERBIA, 26 May 2012 22:24)


Of course Serbia cannot exchange an EU seat for something it does not have, but it is encouraging that, at least, in regards to Serbia's EU membership you and Albanians in Kosovo converge in the hope that Serbia never joins EU, or at least not before Kosovo. Thanks GOD Boris was removed and hopefully Tomislav will soon forget about his non-sense electoral promisses of seeking EU membership.

I bet Serbia will recognise independence of Kosovo in 2014.
(Milica, 26 May 2012 18:25)

I will bet you 600 dinars that Serbia won't recognize Kosovo in 2014.

Comm. Parrisson

go ahead and prove that 'bribe' minister has bribed anyone. by the same token, serbia has bribed those who have withheld recognition.

thank God Nikolic and Kostunica formed a coalition...these two wnt deceive the people as tadic did. our southern province will not be recognized. and..worse comes to worse..we stay out of the broke and failing EU! sounds like a no brainer to me

That alone would tricker ecconomic growth anywhere in the Balkans, something which is desperatly needed, and on top of it would change the image Serbia still has not just in Europe, but in big parts of the world. It is a win -win solution to the mess which was created by Serbia in the 90's, and it would be especially in the intrest of all people living in the entire area.
(Willi Pfaff, 26 May 2012 15:24)

Like Greece, Spain...?
Image of Serbia is based on many lies that nobody talks about in western countries, what about serbs dying in Kosovo every day? Nobody tells you nothing about this in western countries so please take some information.

Comm. Parrisson

I forgot to ask, do you think the bribe minister has bribed the US, Japan, Germany, France, the UK, Australia, Canada, South Korea etal as well?

sj, 27 May 2012 12:03)
You keep saying that the west is trying to reintegrate Kosovo into Serbia, I cannot determine if you realize it is a lost cause and you are just trying to illicit responses such as Ron use to do about UNMIK. But you know that is nothing but BS and you have nothing to support your claims other than your imagination.
As far as giving you the benefits of Serbia joining the EU, if you look at any of my postings I don't think you will find that I am an advocate of it. I do not think that Serbia is near ready and nor deserves it. However as far as its links with Russia if it is surrounded completely by EU and NATO that will be more of a liability than an asset.
Your argument that Kosovo is a special case is true, and should the plan with Serbia go south you will see some type of "special status" granted to Kosovo as part of the EU if not full fledged membership. You know as well as anyone the argument of Russia blocking UN membership is not the same as the ones in the EU blocking EU membership. Opposition countries are not in a position of power and can be "encouraged" to drop their resistance, however, that is not a card that needs to be played for some time if ever.
I would be interested to hear any supporting evidence you have for claiming the west is moving toward Kosovo rejoining Serbia, maybe you heard it in some alley in Malaysia, or was you recently in a top level secret meeting that you are not allowed to reveal?? LOL.

"Of course, since even Serbia acknowledges that Kosovo is independent from Serbia when it says that UNMIK is in charge in Kosovo and not Serbia. And what Albanians in Kosovo care about is to be independent from Serbia. "
(icj, 26 May 2012 23:12)

Ah, sorry, I should have written 'they dream Kosovo is an independent state'. No need to discuss that Albanians in Kosovo are independent from Serbia and Serbia has no say there (southern, Albanian part).
But if this is all Albaians care about, then the goal is reached, and I wonder why bribe minister Pacolli spends millions for buying recognitions. What for? Hmm, mentioning that, is he on holidays? Didn't read anything about him and a tropical island state recently :)

go ahead and prove that 'bribe' minister has bribed anyone. by the same token, serbia has bribed those who have withheld recognition.
(Nikolle, 27 May 2012 11:52)
============================

What a hypocrite. Why don't you practice as you preach and you prove what you have just said.

i dont have to Peggy, because apparently its well known that Albanians have bribed others for recognition (how Kosova can bribe the US and Japan and Germany and...) is not known to me
(Nikolle, 28 May 2012 09:59)
===============================

You said that Serbia has bribed others and I asked you to prove it. Why do you try to get out of answering a direct question with cr@p?
You made the accusation and I called you out on it.

“The Serbian public should know that the EU will soon start with the most brutal pressure and blackmails, requesting from Serbia to completely give up on Kosovo in order to start the EU accession talks. Such messages are already being brought by diplomats from the EU states,” Koštunica told Beta news agency.

Yes, the EU diplomats travel to Belgrade and bring these messages especially to Kostunica, one of the most important politicians of the most important party in Serbia (his party reached some 7% of the votes).
(Comm. Parrisson, 26 May 2012 14:51)

You don't believe that EU will soon start with the most brutal pressure and blackmails, requesting from Serbia to completely give up on Kosovo in order to start the EU accession talks?

One doesn't have to be the most popular politician in Serbia to know it.

(pss, 26 May 2012 21:02)
That’s not correct. Kosovo is being treated as a special case not separate – there is a difference but it would take too much space to show you in this forum. If Kosovo was separate why not let it into the EU now? What are they waiting for? Santa Clause? Or perhaps Mother Goose? Yes that would have been true 12 years ago, but today the EU is trying to reconnect the former parts as it cannot support them.
All Serbia has to do is tell all and one that Kosovo is hers and anyone trying to extract ore or establish industries without its permission will all be forced to pay later. I can guarantee you that no one will set foot in Kosovo. It’s been done before.
Kosovo is now worse than Haiti.
In the meantime you can entertain us all on the benefits of Serbia joining the EU, that’s if the EU survives. You know once Serbia joins the EU will plant money trees in Belgrade’s gardens and it will be a life of ease and no one will have to work.
On a more interesting side the Chinese are coming to the EU’s rescue and they don’t do things out of love so between trying to stay afloat and stabilize Europe, Brussels is not in the slightest interested in “forcing” Serbia to recognize Kosovo.

Only an idiot would want to join those dying entities. The west has always sold Serbia down the river, we owe nothing to them not now not ever. It's Russia and China who are the up and coming powers...NATO and the EU.....what a joke!!
(Steve Gligorijevic, 27 May 2012 02:42)

Your posting sounds as if you are still looking for some kind of saviour from your neighbours. Maybe it would be in the whole region's best interests if people start abandoning the search for external saviours and building relations with their neighbours. Of course, as long as the existence of borders or even countries is not accepted, then there is not much progress to be made.
In any case, it does not seem to make much sense for Serbia to join the EU if there is no consensus on what the borders of Serbia actually are (Serb-Bosnia, North Kosovo, all Kosovo etc.). That is one of the sad elements of Dayton: it has stopped the killing, but the political solution is too contradictory.

Ah, sorry, I should have written 'they dream Kosovo is an independent state'.
(Comm. Parrisson, 27 May 2012 09:26)

Serbs in North Kosovo would disagree with that. Don’t forget that they held a referendum about the institutions of the dream Kosovo. And I don’t believe Serbs in North Kosovo were hallucinating or dreaming.
----------

No need to discuss that Albanians in Kosovo are independent from Serbia and Serbia has no say there (southern, Albanian part).
(Comm. Parrisson, 27 May 2012 09:26)

Serbia has no say in any part in Kosovo. Northern Kosovo as well does not do what Belgrade says in case you have missed the news in recent years.
----------

But if this is all Albaians care about, then the goal is reached, and I wonder why bribe minister Pacolli spends millions for buying recognitions. What for? Hmm, mentioning that, is he on holidays? Didn't read anything about him and a tropical island state recently :)
(Comm. Parrisson, 27 May 2012 09:26)

For the same reason that Serbia spends millions (even though it is an independent state) to maintain embassies abroad.

All Serbia has to do is tell all and one that Kosovo is hers and anyone trying to extract ore or establish industries without its permission will all be forced to pay later. I can guarantee you that no one will set foot in Kosovo. It’s been done before.
(sj, 27 May 2012 12:03)

Exactly, you’re smart and you always get to the real point of the discussion. That’s why it was very important to have Vuk go to the ICJ and clear up that Kosovo’s UDI was in accordance with international law so that any potential investor in Kosovo was safe from lawsuits for any investments in accordance with Kosovo’s UDI.
----------

On a more interesting side the Chinese are coming to the EU’s rescue and they don’t do things out of love so between trying to stay afloat and stabilize Europe, Brussels is not in the slightest interested in “forcing” Serbia to recognize Kosovo.
(sj, 27 May 2012 12:03)

Of course, China is investing (assuming it is doing so) in EU bonds because it will get paid interest for those bonds as a return at the market rates. Somebody has to be naïve to believe that anything between countries is done for love - it's always money. As for Brussels “forcing” Serbia to recognize Kosovo, it is in Brussels interest because it’s a way to avoid having in the EU another bankrupt and poor country from the Balkans.

sj, 27 May 2012 12:03)
You keep saying that the west is trying to reintegrate Kosovo into Serbia...
(pss, 27 May 2012 19:34)

PSS, I certainly am not sj, and in fact disagree with him about 100% of the time so don't think that I am trying to answer for him.

I think that during the conflict and even after the conflict there were probably many western powers that believed that the end goal was to re-integrate Kosovo into Serbia. I expect that this was still the case until the negotiations between Kosovo and Serbia 6 years ago. During negotiations, everyone saw the level of animosity on both sides, and then Serbia went and tried to bypass everything by changing their constitution without even having people in Kosovo vote on it, though the substantial changes all involved Kosovo. At that point, I think that the western powers decided that reintegration was impossible, and decided that independence for Kosovo (with substantial autonomy for the Serbians living in Kosovo) was the only realistic solution.

As for whether the west is moving towards reintegration, I would say that recognizing Kosovo (which the vast majority have) is about as far away from reintegration as is possible.

Note that all of this is just my opinion, based on what I have heard and read, but I am just an American living in Kosovo, so I don't have all of sj's top secret sources. ;)

i dont have to Peggy, because apparently its well known that Albanians have bribed others for recognition (how Kosova can bribe the US and Japan and Germany and...) is not known to me

The thing is that in the end serbia will stilll have to recognize kosovo..
for example crotia ...bosniaaa?....
it will take time for them to accept reality that if kosovo was really theirs and had been under their controll for years befor why is their more albanians living their even though they tryed cleansing and killing as many as you albanias they could...
96 percent of the popullation is albanian making it Albanian
GIVE UP..and.LIVE LIFE.

We don't want Serbia's recognition.

We want UN seat.

If that can happen Serbia's recognition for us would be more or less as if South Ossetia would recognize us welcomed but who gives a f...

You said that Serbia has bribed others and I asked you to prove it. Why do you try to get out of answering a direct question with cr@p?
You made the accusation and I called you out on it.
(Peggy, 28 May 2012 15:47)

I don't think Serbia has bribed others... I think people like Ahmadinejad and Chavez have not recognized Kosovo because they love Serbia LOL

I will bet you 600 dinars that Serbia won't recognize Kosovo in 2014.
(JohnBoy, 27 May 2012 01:58)

Long-term bets have to be in € - who knows how less 600 dinars will be worth in 2014 :)

Glenn, 27 May 2012 23:20)
I am a little confused by your post. I do not think you defended sj's position at all. You reiterated my view. I have always thought that it was origninally the plan for Kosovo and Serbia and Montenegro to form some type of joint federation. With the separation of Montenegro and the views of Serbia it quickly became obvious this was impossible.
My questions were in what way(other than to elicit some reaction) does he think the behavior of the west indicates a change in strategy. And how he could possibly think the civilized world would dare to allow Serbia to restart their original milosevic crusade.

wow Peggy, who knew Serbs were on the same level as the Americans. I thought they were on the side of good and the just :) ? by the way, i did reply to you on the other thread but mu comment wasn't published [i know you like to think you keep putting me in the box :) ]

Glenn, 27 May 2012 23:20)
I am a little confused by your post. I do not think you defended sj's position at all. You reiterated my view. I have always thought that it was origninally the plan for Kosovo and Serbia and Montenegro to form some type of joint federation. With the separation of Montenegro and the views of Serbia it quickly became obvious this was impossible.
My questions were in what way(other than to elicit some reaction) does he think the behavior of the west indicates a change in strategy. And how he could possibly think the civilized world would dare to allow Serbia to restart their original milosevic crusade.
(pss, 29 May 2012 14:29)

Sorry, pss, I was just trying to make clear that I recognized that your question was addressed to sj, so I was jumping into the conversation uninvited. I think that you pretty much nailed it on the head with your "other than to elicit some reaction" regarding sj's comments. No rational person would believe, based on observable behavior and actions, that the west is thinking about reintegration, so either sj is irrational, merely trying to get reactions, or both. And yes, while it is true that both the USA and EU are struggling financially (as sj likes to point out in each post), the relatively small amount spent in Kosovo is not the problem, and they would be crazy to not spend it if it meant the region returning to instability or open conflict.