21st anniversary of March 9 protest

And yet people on this forum still claim that all of Serbia is still following Milosovic's policies, totally ignoring the fact that it was the Serbian peole who threw him out, not NATO bombs. He was on his way out and in fact the bombing was what kept him in power longer.

sj if you don't know what Milosevic did was wrong by now you never will. The crimes and bone stupid errors are there for all to see. To sum up he failed in every sense on every single aspect of government. Yeah life was good under hyperinflation, great during various wars and outstanding if one wasn't a member of the red/black alliance. If you think that Milosevic loved his people you really are in a tiny minority.

To say that somebody should be dug up and thrown into the Danube does you no credit.

On the topic one might say that this would be the last chance for many years to unshackle Serbia from the forthcoming chains of a decade of Milosevic rule. It would have taken either an uprising or a coup from the army to have actually ousted the authorities. But the problem was that nobody had a clue just how bad things would get and Sloba had the army leadership support.

Of course Jugoslavija and Serbia would still have been in crisis with an alternative government to Milosevic and its impossible to say to what extent things would have been better. Its hard to see how things could have been worse though.

Exactly, Daniel, Albanians that do not say about a word about their criminals in Pristina, but still keep pointing a finger at Milosevic for all their hardships, obviously have a problem with seeing the truth, and prefer to keep their heads in their butts. Serbs have always had a rebellious spirit, even against their own, where Albanians will protect theirs, even if they know they committed heinous crimes. It must be some sort of cultural thing we westerners do not understand.

always interesting to hear the view from some kind of "Serbian club" in Australia, sj!
(Danilo, 9 March 2012 12:54)

Even more interesting to hear the view of some pseudoentelectuel idiots from switzerland for whom tennis is nothing else but hitting the ball randomly not to mention other completly ill theories.But after all Switzerland is leading country in pharmacutical business so earlier or later some cure will be found maybe.

Yes,Kujon, Albanians view all Serbian citizens as hard core Milosevic followers, that were intent on creating a Greater Serbia, and eliminating all other ethnicities from their land. Unlike the Serbian people, who drove bad politicians out of power, the Albanians support their criminals in Pristina. Can you Albanians explain that? Are you afraid of getting a couple of knocks on your heads, so that you might create a better place for your children and your yourselves?

SPC UK,

Unless you're still a child and dependant on your parents, it's you who's selling his soul to the EU by living there instead of trying to make Serbia better.
(Danilo, 9 March 2012 15:24)

LOL, aint that the joke of the day! Danilo now wants us to believe that he is 'trying to make Serbia better'. You've admitted yourself that you are in Serbia for one reason and one reason only, to exploit cheap Serbian labour and line your pockets with money.
http://www.b92.net/eng/news/comments.php?nav_id=77692
Cheers!!

I make money.
Dragan is annoyed.

I can't see a down-side.
(Danilo, 9 March 2012 17:37)

Amused is more like it. I am very amused by your hypocricy, when you clearly brag about exploiting cheap labour and spit on Serbs every chance you get, and then at the same time try to brand yourself as some kind of good samaritan and philanthropist. What you are is a carpetbagger, nothing more.
Cheers!!

21 years after deposing Milosevic and what have they gained? Well the ones who are smart enough they are now in positions of power and rich, but what about the rest? Nothing.
The communist came to power after WW2, but who were the communists and where did they come from? They were the sons and daughters of the elite of the 1930s. Yes they came from privileged and wealthy families and who was involved in the “revolution” 21 years ago???? Yes the sons and daughters of the elite under communism.
What did Milosevic do that was so heinous? I know for a fact that Alexander Lukasenko from Belarus told the EU representatives that he would not care if he killed 20, 30 or 40,000 to stay in power but he was prepared to do so and we have him still in power today. What did Milosevic say when they came to arrest him??? He said I do not want my people to fight and kill over me – he loved his people.
Otpor what have you achieved in all this time???? NOTHING. Under Milosevic life was good, but what has freedom and democracy brought to Serbia?????? NOTHING.
Where should Milosevic be buried? In Belgrade amongst the Serbian greats and what should happen to Zoran Djindic? That traitorous bastard should be dug up and thrown into the Danube together with Tito.

None of your hot-air (ie. telling people 'the truth') amounts to a hill of beans compared to the concrete cash-in-hand Serbia gets from me.

(Danilo, 10 March 2012 14:39)

It is precisely that attitude that screwed Serbia. You are 100% wrong. Had people in the so called 'civilized West' known the truth, there would have been no sanctions on Serbia, there would have been no bombing of Serbia, there would be no anti-Serb double standards in the treatment of Serbia, and ALL Serbs would be much richer and living much better now. When Canadian General Lewis Mackenzie said 'we bombed the wrong side', he said it because he knows the truth about the wars in Balkans. Imagine if the whole world knew the truth? Your piddly little data center which employs a few people, whom you pay a pittance (and are proud of it), doesn't amount to a hill of beans. Serbia still gets constant negative press because people like you, so you will never ever be a 'big Serb'. You are perhaps a bigger Serb than traitors like Ceda Jovanovic and Natasa Kandic, but even that's doubtful.
Cheers!!

And yet people on this forum still claim that all of Serbia is still following Milosovic's policies, totally ignoring the fact that it was the Serbian peole who threw him out, not NATO bombs. He was on his way out and in fact the bombing was what kept him in power longer.
(kujon, 9 March 2012 11:48)
The only people still claiming that Serbia is following Milosevic's policies are ignorant Albanian commentators whom have an agenda. I ignore those individuals as they are a waste of air.

SPC UK,

Unless you're still a child and dependant on your parents, it's you who's selling his soul to the EU by living there instead of trying to make Serbia better.

Comm Parrison,

You're right. As such, SCP UK has the luxury of wallowing in extremist views without having to bear any of the consequences of such views. He can support the likes of SRS or DSS from afar because it makes him feel good about his identity without the consequences of actually living in an environment that would be created by such politics.

I didn't know you were born in the UK, SCP UK.

You're basically as Serbian as I am, except I don't consider myself a Serb and, for you, being Serbian is a kind of hobby.

lol@ at a kid saying he's spent "VAST" amounts of time anywhere.

So, anyway. Since you are still a kid and were born in the UK, you clearly haven't sold your soul to the EU. I stand corrected.


Dragan,

I'm proud of the fact that I'm smart and brave enough to move halfway around the world and engineer a situation for myself that's as interesting as it is profitable. I am making Serbia an infinitesimally better place in this process. I've made jobs that pay a little better than average and created a fun work-place. The only person who's left was someone who was able to finish higher education while she was working for me and got a better job.

Several Serbs have better-paying jobs than they would have without me
I make money.
Dragan is annoyed.

I can't see a down-side.

By the way, I just finished tallying my expenses for February. I spent around $11500 in Serbia in February. How much did you contribute to the Serbian economy last month?
(Danilo, 9 March 2012 22:08)

You're such a simpleton, you just don't get it. Nobody belittles you because you spend money in Serbia, they belittle you because you hate Serbia, you insult Serbs on this forum regularly, you brag about exploiting Serbs, and instead of being thankful you spit on the people on whose backs you make money. People like you, who worship the green (money), and couldn't care less about the red, white and blue (Serbia), are the biggest problem.
As for how much I spent, I own property in both Serbia and Republika Srpska, so don't worry about it, I'm helping the cause. A better question to ask me is how many Canadians and Americans have I shown the truth, and how many are pro-Serbian because of it? I would guess in your case it's the opposite, you have probably convinced everyone to hate Serbia. So if you are comparing who is better for Serbdom, yourself or me, the answer is quite obvious - you are good for albania, croatia, and bosnia - I am good for Serbia.
Cheers!!

"I've never used the term "random" to describe tennis, but yes, the fact that I don't have much respect for people who worship children's games is well-known."

Danilo

Don't be jelous. Perhaps one day albanians will be good at something too. Perhaps you will, but most probably you won't. Talent is not for everyone.

always interesting to hear the view from some kind of "Serbian club" in Australia, sj!

I am a student and so I do rely on my parents yes. You always bring this up because you have no other decent argument, it isn't my fault I was born here in the EU, I didn't choose to live in the EU, and I support campaigns for the UK to leave the EU. I unlike you can see all the disadvantages of the EU in the UK, such as higher taxes to pay to Brussels, and an enormous lack of democracy, not to mention the lack of sovereignty, which defies that democracy. You are such a fool, you think you know it all but you just dont, I have dual citizenship and spend vast amounts of time in both places, so I have more diverse experiences than you do. I know for a fact that by being in the UK that I DO NOT benefit from the EU, you have no clue what so ever. Get an education and maybe you'll stop this BS rhetoric you always come out with.

Dragan, you really disqualified yourself by linking to this old article. Although I also don't agree with the comment "the cheaper the labour, the better for me" blabla. But, I think what it shows is simply how reality works. You said that you contribute more to Serbia's well-being by sending money home without conditions... That's really nice of you, but do you honestly think that you can run a country just with money from the diaspora? Do you think anybody enjoys it to depend on money of relatives? What happens if you have no relatives or if they stop sending money (because they died, or lost their job..)? If you have a job you have your own money, even if it is just a bit, you gain experiences and you do not get bored or criminal. If you think it is unfair to pay so little; well there is a reason why it is not more: Then the jobs would stay in Western Europe or the US. If you want higher salaries: Educate the youth and lower the burdens to establish a business (which are really high in Serbia) and fight corruption. It is always easy to blame others. Elect politicians who improve the business climate in Serbia. And a good business climate does not contradict social welfare (Scandinavian countries and most EU countries). If you think the EU enslaves the people in smaller countries, why are the Scandinavian countries, Belgium, Luxembourg, Slovenia, Slovakia and so prospering?

Dragan, it is not the employers responsibility to pay higher salaries. It is their responsibility to pay the agreed salaries and taxes and thats it. The ones responsible for increasing salaries are labour unions. Would you go to the grocery market in Serbia and spend three times more than the demanded price, just because you pay this price in Australia or wherever?
Further you cannot compare the working environment. Productivity in Serbia is by far lower compared for example to the EU. I don't say Serbs are lazy I worked in Serbia for a while and the people in my office were highly motivated, they were working longer than demanded and so on. But, some of them who just finished university lacked even fundamental skills to use a computer or stick to some basic principles to hold a presentation and so on. So simple things were sometimes very time consuming. Further, establishing a business (as I said before) is more risky and expensive. More obvious in the public sector, Serbia has twice as many people employed in the public sector than it would actually need, while the amount of people working in this sector increases every election round by 18%. This is inefficiant clientele politics. Same in the agrucultural sector. You can have 10 hard working farmers, but if they have only 100 cows and outdated machines they are not efficient and you cannot pay them the same salary as you would spend on a European farmer.
Only if you employ people, educate them and if they earn their own money you can motivate them and give them their pride for their work back (and pride is a very important factor for productivity). If you fight then additionally corruption, you can raise taxes which can be used for social welfare, the health system and so on.
The tasks of politics and the legal sector is to ensure the smooth functioning of the economy and the protection of the people of the negative externalities of a free market.
Relying on and demanding good will and solidarity does only function to a small extent. In the end everybody is responsible for her/himself. The positive aspect of this system is the predictability of the economic beaviour of people like Danilo (I really don't mean this in a negative way!!!). The behaviour is not driven by some "pride" or good or bad attitude towards a country, but mostly based on economic calculations. This sheds also more light on the previously mentioned factors to improve the situation.
No country is isolated anymore (maybe except of North Korea) and capital and employment goes to the place where the conditions are most profitable. And good conditions do not directly mean that you have to enslave the people, because only fairly payed workers work hard, are creative, can spend money on other products, pay taxes to be spend on infrastructure (e.g. electricity without black outs) and are able to spend a lot on education to provide a skilled labour force.
If you send money and if the recipients can invest it for a small business or education or something like that, those money transfers are sustainable and the improve the prospering of Serbia. If this money is just used to consume and to buy fancy cars, clothes or something like that, you create an attitude of demand without any rational thinking. People start to be dependant on this money and the dependance rips you off of any bargaining power. How often did I read here that people are just hoping for money from the EU without the will for reforms. This does not work out. Everything comes with a price or the need to change something, also in socialism or any other system.

Main thing is that everyone in Serbia can sleep a little more soundly knowing that Dragan is saying nice things at dinner parties in Toronto.
(Danilo, 10 March 2012 21:32)

You bet (in Vancouver too), and I do it free of charge, simply out of patriotism. That must be a foreign concept to you.
Cheers!!

Milosevic was not a good man, he played nationalists and in the end sold out hundreds of thousands of Serbs when we sold out Krajina in 1995 and then Kosovo in 1999. He used nationalism as a tool for his own selfishness, and profited massively, but was too stupid to realise that the evils that he was dealing with would send him to the Hague in the end.

However, what replaced him? It is a real shame to see that some Serbs view Djindjic as some sort of liberator, in fact all he did was take direct orders from the west, and was fully open to cooperate with NATO, despite the fact that the country had just been bombed by it, nothing good can be said about that what so ever, it is disgraceful and I hope he is suffering in hell. What followed was not much different to the Milosevic years, rather a system which obeyed the west at all costs, made no attempt at defending Kosovo and sold out those heros which defended the Serbian people during those wars. As for the politics, not much has changed either, just because there is a party with a majority called the 'Democratic Party', this means nothing, the political manipulation still exists, there is nothing democratic about that party. What about the DS and SPS in coalition, in 1999/2000 these parties were sworn enemies, so how on earth are they sharing the government in Serbia? It is unbelievable, and proof that politics in Serbia is as dirty as always. Political persuction still exists, but it is geared against patriots now for speaking their mind, so much for democracy.

All those who believe that these protests saw positive change in Serbia, you are just so wrong, you are either stupid for believing so or just take the traitorous and supporting view of selling your soul to the EU and USA, and that truly is shameful.

Which taxes do you mean? The net contribution of 0.24% of UK's GDP (62.7€ per year per capita)? There was already a time when the UK decided to stay out of the EU. After it's economy suffered extremly from isolation, the UK was begging the EU for entrance, which was blocked the first time. After it finally joined, the UK's economy was prospering. Do not forget that. And the reason why you might face some economic problems in your life, is not do to the EU's fault, Thatcher destroyd UK's industrial sector and the focus of your wooheed city of London with all it's Banksters and endless liberalisation and neoliberalism is the reason for the economic and social problems in the UK.
Democratic deficit in the EU? And you celebrate Milosevic?
Apart from that; check some Eurobarometer polls. You will discover a corellation between those who do not understand the EU and who don't know anything about it with those who oppose it.

Dragan,

Most of the things you regularly accuse me of are true, except this new thing. I don't fancy myself a philanthropist of any kind. I came here not to "help" but, as you put it, to line my pockets. Much (inadvertent) harm in the world is done by people trying to help and most of the best things happen when people relentlessly pursue their own self-interest.

The fact that people are helped as a by-product of me pursuing my interest is something I can be happy about.

By the way, I just finished tallying my expenses for February. I spent around $11500 in Serbia in February. How much did you contribute to the Serbian economy last month?

Dragan,

None of your hot-air (ie. telling people 'the truth') amounts to a hill of beans compared to the concrete cash-in-hand Serbia gets from me.

What do you think any Serb would prefer if you asked him or her which one they'd like to have? Some cash in the hand or you chatting about Serbia at a dinner party in Toronto?

This 'carpetbagging serb-hater' has already done more concrete good for Serbs and Serbia you will ever do in your life and I'm just getting started.

What can I say, it makes me smile that I'm a bigger Serb than you'll ever be.

BTW, the wars are over. There's no 'cause' except the cause of individuals being able to improve their lives, regardless of their ethnicity and of where they happen live in the Balkans.

none of your hot air is going to turn back time, Dragane.

You are wrong:

If Serbia gets negative press, it is about stubborn nationalists, corruption, incapability to catch some war criminals, unemployment, minority rights issues, or funny populist statements by some populist Serbian politicians.
If Serbia gets positive press, it is about the increasing attraction of foreign direct investments, developments in the legal sector, new factories, decreasing crime or better cooperation with its neighbours.

Not the other way round...

Mister Draskovic spat on 9th of march when he decide to get in government with DS !!

Unless you're still a child and dependant on your parents, it's you who's selling his soul to the EU by living there instead of trying to make Serbia better.
(Danilo, 9 March 2012 15:24)

No, it's not seelling your soul, in fact it is smart to realize that you cannot eat nationalism and extremism - and that living and earning money abroad makes more sense, from the point of view of an individual

The difference today and between democracy and an authoritarian regime: You get what you elect! If you are not satisfied with the government, vote for those who are in line with your aims. If you complain about bad and corrupt politicians, well, those are the politicians the people elected. If you think you can do it better: Become a politician and make it better. If you are against corruption, do something against it. Pay your taxes, your bus ticket, do not bribe the people to get your drivers licence, call the police if someone offers you money to get a service faster or if you see that someone pays something to get it, and so on.
Politicians in a functioning democracy are always a reflection of the population. The wish for a "leader" who just takes over control (and is not controlled by the public) and leads the country to a good and prosporous future ends usually in a huge disaster. No matter if it is Hitler, Stalin, Milosevic, Franko, or other "leaders".

Hey Sezmi!

I've never used the term "random" to describe tennis, but yes, the fact that I don't have much respect for people who worship children's games is well-known.

Slight correction, observer.

In the article Dragan linked, I stated that if things get worse economically in Serbia, that works to my advantage. While this isn't something I celebrate, it is true. Someone accused me of thinking that the EU will bring riches to Serbia or that I had some kind of financial interest in Serbia joining the EU and I pointed out that it makes no difference to me financially.

Main thing is that everyone in Serbia can sleep a little more soundly knowing that Dragan is saying nice things at dinner parties in Toronto.

Depends what you mean?

If, by 'patriotism', you mean some kind of tribal-identification, them yes, it's an utterly foreign concept to me, and thank god for that.

Unless you're still a child and dependant on your parents, it's you who's selling his soul to the EU by living there instead of trying to make Serbia better.
(Danilo, 9 March 2012 15:24)

No, it's not seelling your soul, in fact it is smart to realize that you cannot eat nationalism and extremism - and that living and earning money abroad makes more sense, from the point of view of an individual
(Comm. Parrisson, 9 March 2012 16:04)

Danilo and Comm, both of you are spot on. On this site, the most intransigent and hardcore Albanian and Serb nationalists come from the diaspora who have the luxury of living in the West, yet do not experience the harsh reality of living day to day in Serbia where life is a daily struggle just to get by.

People like ben, Agim, Peggy, sj, SCP UK et al, should take a step back and start analyse situation on the ground before they start inundating us with the usual guff. I have great time for the moderates here who are willing to accommodate each other's side of the argument. Speaking of Serbia who I am a regular visitor, I think Tadic, Dacic and Jeremic are doing an excellent job given the circumstances. They will be re-elected come May and rightly so. Serbia has the politicians who can step up to the plate. It's a pity I cannot say that same for the K-Albanian kleptocratic elite. The everyday ordinary Albanian are being badly served by their leaders. The death of Rugova left a huge void that will probably never be filled. There is a real dearth of political leaders among Albanians which is a huge pity. The Snake, well less said of him the better. Haradinaj, ditto. Kurti who I did admire has turned into a nationalist rabble rouser. Pacolli once Slobbo's right hand man has an air of a Del Boy about him. Veton Surroi is way too quiet and unassuming. Look to Albania and you have Berisha, the ultimate Balkan snake oil sales man. However with Edi Rama, I think they have a good one.

21 years after deposing Milosevic and what have they gained? Well the ones who are smart enough they are now in positions of power and rich, but what about the rest? Nothing.
The communist came to power after WW2, but who were the communists and where did they come from? They were the sons and daughters of the elite of the 1930s. Yes they came from privileged and wealthy families and who was involved in the “revolution” 21 years ago???? Yes the sons and daughters of the elite under communism.
What did Milosevic do that was so heinous? I know for a fact that Alexander Lukasenko from Belarus told the EU representatives that he would not care if he killed 20, 30 or 40,000 to stay in power but he was prepared to do so and we have him still in power today. What did Milosevic say when they came to arrest him??? He said I do not want my people to fight and kill over me – he loved his people.
Otpor what have you achieved in all this time???? NOTHING. Under Milosevic life was good, but what has freedom and democracy brought to Serbia?????? NOTHING.
Where should Milosevic be buried? In Belgrade amongst the Serbian greats and what should happen to Zoran Djindic? That traitorous bastard should be dug up and thrown into the Danube together with Tito.

always interesting to hear the view from some kind of "Serbian club" in Australia, sj!

Hey Sezmi!

I've never used the term "random" to describe tennis, but yes, the fact that I don't have much respect for people who worship children's games is well-known.

I didn't know you were born in the UK, SCP UK.

You're basically as Serbian as I am, except I don't consider myself a Serb and, for you, being Serbian is a kind of hobby.

lol@ at a kid saying he's spent "VAST" amounts of time anywhere.

So, anyway. Since you are still a kid and were born in the UK, you clearly haven't sold your soul to the EU. I stand corrected.


Dragan,

I'm proud of the fact that I'm smart and brave enough to move halfway around the world and engineer a situation for myself that's as interesting as it is profitable. I am making Serbia an infinitesimally better place in this process. I've made jobs that pay a little better than average and created a fun work-place. The only person who's left was someone who was able to finish higher education while she was working for me and got a better job.

Several Serbs have better-paying jobs than they would have without me
I make money.
Dragan is annoyed.

I can't see a down-side.

Comm Parrison,

You're right. As such, SCP UK has the luxury of wallowing in extremist views without having to bear any of the consequences of such views. He can support the likes of SRS or DSS from afar because it makes him feel good about his identity without the consequences of actually living in an environment that would be created by such politics.

Dragan,

Most of the things you regularly accuse me of are true, except this new thing. I don't fancy myself a philanthropist of any kind. I came here not to "help" but, as you put it, to line my pockets. Much (inadvertent) harm in the world is done by people trying to help and most of the best things happen when people relentlessly pursue their own self-interest.

The fact that people are helped as a by-product of me pursuing my interest is something I can be happy about.

By the way, I just finished tallying my expenses for February. I spent around $11500 in Serbia in February. How much did you contribute to the Serbian economy last month?

Dragan,

None of your hot-air (ie. telling people 'the truth') amounts to a hill of beans compared to the concrete cash-in-hand Serbia gets from me.

What do you think any Serb would prefer if you asked him or her which one they'd like to have? Some cash in the hand or you chatting about Serbia at a dinner party in Toronto?

This 'carpetbagging serb-hater' has already done more concrete good for Serbs and Serbia you will ever do in your life and I'm just getting started.

What can I say, it makes me smile that I'm a bigger Serb than you'll ever be.

BTW, the wars are over. There's no 'cause' except the cause of individuals being able to improve their lives, regardless of their ethnicity and of where they happen live in the Balkans.

Main thing is that everyone in Serbia can sleep a little more soundly knowing that Dragan is saying nice things at dinner parties in Toronto.

And yet people on this forum still claim that all of Serbia is still following Milosovic's policies, totally ignoring the fact that it was the Serbian peole who threw him out, not NATO bombs. He was on his way out and in fact the bombing was what kept him in power longer.
(kujon, 9 March 2012 11:48)
The only people still claiming that Serbia is following Milosevic's policies are ignorant Albanian commentators whom have an agenda. I ignore those individuals as they are a waste of air.

Milosevic was not a good man, he played nationalists and in the end sold out hundreds of thousands of Serbs when we sold out Krajina in 1995 and then Kosovo in 1999. He used nationalism as a tool for his own selfishness, and profited massively, but was too stupid to realise that the evils that he was dealing with would send him to the Hague in the end.

However, what replaced him? It is a real shame to see that some Serbs view Djindjic as some sort of liberator, in fact all he did was take direct orders from the west, and was fully open to cooperate with NATO, despite the fact that the country had just been bombed by it, nothing good can be said about that what so ever, it is disgraceful and I hope he is suffering in hell. What followed was not much different to the Milosevic years, rather a system which obeyed the west at all costs, made no attempt at defending Kosovo and sold out those heros which defended the Serbian people during those wars. As for the politics, not much has changed either, just because there is a party with a majority called the 'Democratic Party', this means nothing, the political manipulation still exists, there is nothing democratic about that party. What about the DS and SPS in coalition, in 1999/2000 these parties were sworn enemies, so how on earth are they sharing the government in Serbia? It is unbelievable, and proof that politics in Serbia is as dirty as always. Political persuction still exists, but it is geared against patriots now for speaking their mind, so much for democracy.

All those who believe that these protests saw positive change in Serbia, you are just so wrong, you are either stupid for believing so or just take the traitorous and supporting view of selling your soul to the EU and USA, and that truly is shameful.

Slight correction, observer.

In the article Dragan linked, I stated that if things get worse economically in Serbia, that works to my advantage. While this isn't something I celebrate, it is true. Someone accused me of thinking that the EU will bring riches to Serbia or that I had some kind of financial interest in Serbia joining the EU and I pointed out that it makes no difference to me financially.

none of your hot air is going to turn back time, Dragane.

And yet people on this forum still claim that all of Serbia is still following Milosovic's policies, totally ignoring the fact that it was the Serbian peole who threw him out, not NATO bombs. He was on his way out and in fact the bombing was what kept him in power longer.

sj if you don't know what Milosevic did was wrong by now you never will. The crimes and bone stupid errors are there for all to see. To sum up he failed in every sense on every single aspect of government. Yeah life was good under hyperinflation, great during various wars and outstanding if one wasn't a member of the red/black alliance. If you think that Milosevic loved his people you really are in a tiny minority.

To say that somebody should be dug up and thrown into the Danube does you no credit.

On the topic one might say that this would be the last chance for many years to unshackle Serbia from the forthcoming chains of a decade of Milosevic rule. It would have taken either an uprising or a coup from the army to have actually ousted the authorities. But the problem was that nobody had a clue just how bad things would get and Sloba had the army leadership support.

Of course Jugoslavija and Serbia would still have been in crisis with an alternative government to Milosevic and its impossible to say to what extent things would have been better. Its hard to see how things could have been worse though.

Dragan, you really disqualified yourself by linking to this old article. Although I also don't agree with the comment "the cheaper the labour, the better for me" blabla. But, I think what it shows is simply how reality works. You said that you contribute more to Serbia's well-being by sending money home without conditions... That's really nice of you, but do you honestly think that you can run a country just with money from the diaspora? Do you think anybody enjoys it to depend on money of relatives? What happens if you have no relatives or if they stop sending money (because they died, or lost their job..)? If you have a job you have your own money, even if it is just a bit, you gain experiences and you do not get bored or criminal. If you think it is unfair to pay so little; well there is a reason why it is not more: Then the jobs would stay in Western Europe or the US. If you want higher salaries: Educate the youth and lower the burdens to establish a business (which are really high in Serbia) and fight corruption. It is always easy to blame others. Elect politicians who improve the business climate in Serbia. And a good business climate does not contradict social welfare (Scandinavian countries and most EU countries). If you think the EU enslaves the people in smaller countries, why are the Scandinavian countries, Belgium, Luxembourg, Slovenia, Slovakia and so prospering?

Yes,Kujon, Albanians view all Serbian citizens as hard core Milosevic followers, that were intent on creating a Greater Serbia, and eliminating all other ethnicities from their land. Unlike the Serbian people, who drove bad politicians out of power, the Albanians support their criminals in Pristina. Can you Albanians explain that? Are you afraid of getting a couple of knocks on your heads, so that you might create a better place for your children and your yourselves?

always interesting to hear the view from some kind of "Serbian club" in Australia, sj!
(Danilo, 9 March 2012 12:54)

Even more interesting to hear the view of some pseudoentelectuel idiots from switzerland for whom tennis is nothing else but hitting the ball randomly not to mention other completly ill theories.But after all Switzerland is leading country in pharmacutical business so earlier or later some cure will be found maybe.

Mister Draskovic spat on 9th of march when he decide to get in government with DS !!

SPC UK,

Unless you're still a child and dependant on your parents, it's you who's selling his soul to the EU by living there instead of trying to make Serbia better.

SPC UK,

Unless you're still a child and dependant on your parents, it's you who's selling his soul to the EU by living there instead of trying to make Serbia better.
(Danilo, 9 March 2012 15:24)

LOL, aint that the joke of the day! Danilo now wants us to believe that he is 'trying to make Serbia better'. You've admitted yourself that you are in Serbia for one reason and one reason only, to exploit cheap Serbian labour and line your pockets with money.
http://www.b92.net/eng/news/comments.php?nav_id=77692
Cheers!!

Which taxes do you mean? The net contribution of 0.24% of UK's GDP (62.7€ per year per capita)? There was already a time when the UK decided to stay out of the EU. After it's economy suffered extremly from isolation, the UK was begging the EU for entrance, which was blocked the first time. After it finally joined, the UK's economy was prospering. Do not forget that. And the reason why you might face some economic problems in your life, is not do to the EU's fault, Thatcher destroyd UK's industrial sector and the focus of your wooheed city of London with all it's Banksters and endless liberalisation and neoliberalism is the reason for the economic and social problems in the UK.
Democratic deficit in the EU? And you celebrate Milosevic?
Apart from that; check some Eurobarometer polls. You will discover a corellation between those who do not understand the EU and who don't know anything about it with those who oppose it.

You are wrong:

If Serbia gets negative press, it is about stubborn nationalists, corruption, incapability to catch some war criminals, unemployment, minority rights issues, or funny populist statements by some populist Serbian politicians.
If Serbia gets positive press, it is about the increasing attraction of foreign direct investments, developments in the legal sector, new factories, decreasing crime or better cooperation with its neighbours.

Not the other way round...

Depends what you mean?

If, by 'patriotism', you mean some kind of tribal-identification, them yes, it's an utterly foreign concept to me, and thank god for that.

Exactly, Daniel, Albanians that do not say about a word about their criminals in Pristina, but still keep pointing a finger at Milosevic for all their hardships, obviously have a problem with seeing the truth, and prefer to keep their heads in their butts. Serbs have always had a rebellious spirit, even against their own, where Albanians will protect theirs, even if they know they committed heinous crimes. It must be some sort of cultural thing we westerners do not understand.

The difference today and between democracy and an authoritarian regime: You get what you elect! If you are not satisfied with the government, vote for those who are in line with your aims. If you complain about bad and corrupt politicians, well, those are the politicians the people elected. If you think you can do it better: Become a politician and make it better. If you are against corruption, do something against it. Pay your taxes, your bus ticket, do not bribe the people to get your drivers licence, call the police if someone offers you money to get a service faster or if you see that someone pays something to get it, and so on.
Politicians in a functioning democracy are always a reflection of the population. The wish for a "leader" who just takes over control (and is not controlled by the public) and leads the country to a good and prosporous future ends usually in a huge disaster. No matter if it is Hitler, Stalin, Milosevic, Franko, or other "leaders".

I am a student and so I do rely on my parents yes. You always bring this up because you have no other decent argument, it isn't my fault I was born here in the EU, I didn't choose to live in the EU, and I support campaigns for the UK to leave the EU. I unlike you can see all the disadvantages of the EU in the UK, such as higher taxes to pay to Brussels, and an enormous lack of democracy, not to mention the lack of sovereignty, which defies that democracy. You are such a fool, you think you know it all but you just dont, I have dual citizenship and spend vast amounts of time in both places, so I have more diverse experiences than you do. I know for a fact that by being in the UK that I DO NOT benefit from the EU, you have no clue what so ever. Get an education and maybe you'll stop this BS rhetoric you always come out with.

Dragan, it is not the employers responsibility to pay higher salaries. It is their responsibility to pay the agreed salaries and taxes and thats it. The ones responsible for increasing salaries are labour unions. Would you go to the grocery market in Serbia and spend three times more than the demanded price, just because you pay this price in Australia or wherever?
Further you cannot compare the working environment. Productivity in Serbia is by far lower compared for example to the EU. I don't say Serbs are lazy I worked in Serbia for a while and the people in my office were highly motivated, they were working longer than demanded and so on. But, some of them who just finished university lacked even fundamental skills to use a computer or stick to some basic principles to hold a presentation and so on. So simple things were sometimes very time consuming. Further, establishing a business (as I said before) is more risky and expensive. More obvious in the public sector, Serbia has twice as many people employed in the public sector than it would actually need, while the amount of people working in this sector increases every election round by 18%. This is inefficiant clientele politics. Same in the agrucultural sector. You can have 10 hard working farmers, but if they have only 100 cows and outdated machines they are not efficient and you cannot pay them the same salary as you would spend on a European farmer.
Only if you employ people, educate them and if they earn their own money you can motivate them and give them their pride for their work back (and pride is a very important factor for productivity). If you fight then additionally corruption, you can raise taxes which can be used for social welfare, the health system and so on.
The tasks of politics and the legal sector is to ensure the smooth functioning of the economy and the protection of the people of the negative externalities of a free market.
Relying on and demanding good will and solidarity does only function to a small extent. In the end everybody is responsible for her/himself. The positive aspect of this system is the predictability of the economic beaviour of people like Danilo (I really don't mean this in a negative way!!!). The behaviour is not driven by some "pride" or good or bad attitude towards a country, but mostly based on economic calculations. This sheds also more light on the previously mentioned factors to improve the situation.
No country is isolated anymore (maybe except of North Korea) and capital and employment goes to the place where the conditions are most profitable. And good conditions do not directly mean that you have to enslave the people, because only fairly payed workers work hard, are creative, can spend money on other products, pay taxes to be spend on infrastructure (e.g. electricity without black outs) and are able to spend a lot on education to provide a skilled labour force.
If you send money and if the recipients can invest it for a small business or education or something like that, those money transfers are sustainable and the improve the prospering of Serbia. If this money is just used to consume and to buy fancy cars, clothes or something like that, you create an attitude of demand without any rational thinking. People start to be dependant on this money and the dependance rips you off of any bargaining power. How often did I read here that people are just hoping for money from the EU without the will for reforms. This does not work out. Everything comes with a price or the need to change something, also in socialism or any other system.

Unless you're still a child and dependant on your parents, it's you who's selling his soul to the EU by living there instead of trying to make Serbia better.
(Danilo, 9 March 2012 15:24)

No, it's not seelling your soul, in fact it is smart to realize that you cannot eat nationalism and extremism - and that living and earning money abroad makes more sense, from the point of view of an individual
(Comm. Parrisson, 9 March 2012 16:04)

Danilo and Comm, both of you are spot on. On this site, the most intransigent and hardcore Albanian and Serb nationalists come from the diaspora who have the luxury of living in the West, yet do not experience the harsh reality of living day to day in Serbia where life is a daily struggle just to get by.

People like ben, Agim, Peggy, sj, SCP UK et al, should take a step back and start analyse situation on the ground before they start inundating us with the usual guff. I have great time for the moderates here who are willing to accommodate each other's side of the argument. Speaking of Serbia who I am a regular visitor, I think Tadic, Dacic and Jeremic are doing an excellent job given the circumstances. They will be re-elected come May and rightly so. Serbia has the politicians who can step up to the plate. It's a pity I cannot say that same for the K-Albanian kleptocratic elite. The everyday ordinary Albanian are being badly served by their leaders. The death of Rugova left a huge void that will probably never be filled. There is a real dearth of political leaders among Albanians which is a huge pity. The Snake, well less said of him the better. Haradinaj, ditto. Kurti who I did admire has turned into a nationalist rabble rouser. Pacolli once Slobbo's right hand man has an air of a Del Boy about him. Veton Surroi is way too quiet and unassuming. Look to Albania and you have Berisha, the ultimate Balkan snake oil sales man. However with Edi Rama, I think they have a good one.

Unless you're still a child and dependant on your parents, it's you who's selling his soul to the EU by living there instead of trying to make Serbia better.
(Danilo, 9 March 2012 15:24)

No, it's not seelling your soul, in fact it is smart to realize that you cannot eat nationalism and extremism - and that living and earning money abroad makes more sense, from the point of view of an individual

None of your hot-air (ie. telling people 'the truth') amounts to a hill of beans compared to the concrete cash-in-hand Serbia gets from me.

(Danilo, 10 March 2012 14:39)

It is precisely that attitude that screwed Serbia. You are 100% wrong. Had people in the so called 'civilized West' known the truth, there would have been no sanctions on Serbia, there would have been no bombing of Serbia, there would be no anti-Serb double standards in the treatment of Serbia, and ALL Serbs would be much richer and living much better now. When Canadian General Lewis Mackenzie said 'we bombed the wrong side', he said it because he knows the truth about the wars in Balkans. Imagine if the whole world knew the truth? Your piddly little data center which employs a few people, whom you pay a pittance (and are proud of it), doesn't amount to a hill of beans. Serbia still gets constant negative press because people like you, so you will never ever be a 'big Serb'. You are perhaps a bigger Serb than traitors like Ceda Jovanovic and Natasa Kandic, but even that's doubtful.
Cheers!!

I make money.
Dragan is annoyed.

I can't see a down-side.
(Danilo, 9 March 2012 17:37)

Amused is more like it. I am very amused by your hypocricy, when you clearly brag about exploiting cheap labour and spit on Serbs every chance you get, and then at the same time try to brand yourself as some kind of good samaritan and philanthropist. What you are is a carpetbagger, nothing more.
Cheers!!

By the way, I just finished tallying my expenses for February. I spent around $11500 in Serbia in February. How much did you contribute to the Serbian economy last month?
(Danilo, 9 March 2012 22:08)

You're such a simpleton, you just don't get it. Nobody belittles you because you spend money in Serbia, they belittle you because you hate Serbia, you insult Serbs on this forum regularly, you brag about exploiting Serbs, and instead of being thankful you spit on the people on whose backs you make money. People like you, who worship the green (money), and couldn't care less about the red, white and blue (Serbia), are the biggest problem.
As for how much I spent, I own property in both Serbia and Republika Srpska, so don't worry about it, I'm helping the cause. A better question to ask me is how many Canadians and Americans have I shown the truth, and how many are pro-Serbian because of it? I would guess in your case it's the opposite, you have probably convinced everyone to hate Serbia. So if you are comparing who is better for Serbdom, yourself or me, the answer is quite obvious - you are good for albania, croatia, and bosnia - I am good for Serbia.
Cheers!!

"I've never used the term "random" to describe tennis, but yes, the fact that I don't have much respect for people who worship children's games is well-known."

Danilo

Don't be jelous. Perhaps one day albanians will be good at something too. Perhaps you will, but most probably you won't. Talent is not for everyone.

Main thing is that everyone in Serbia can sleep a little more soundly knowing that Dragan is saying nice things at dinner parties in Toronto.
(Danilo, 10 March 2012 21:32)

You bet (in Vancouver too), and I do it free of charge, simply out of patriotism. That must be a foreign concept to you.
Cheers!!