China overtakes Japan as world no.2 economy

This is old news. In fact, China has already overtaken the US when measured by purchasing power. Even that news is one month old. Check http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-01-14/china-tops-u-s-as-biggest-economy-by-purchasing-power-update1-.html

"The United States remains by some way the world’s biggest economy."

We do not know how much is the U.S. economy really worth because the number of inflated transactions is disproportionally high. Good example is the entire military industry, the healthcare and everything around legal expenses.

Example - is a 5-hour light asthma treatment at an emergency room really over $10K worth?

Or: for how much do you buy a roll of toilet paper at Costco and for how much Pentagon is billed for the toilet paper?

As far as the US is concerned it may be a good thing if everybody including the Chinese stop buying US bonds which will force the US Government to actually balance its budget and live within its means.In 2000 the US had a budget surplus but thanks to Bush Jr. coming into office and going on a spending spree with his military adventures like a drunken sailor the US Government has been accumulating unnecessary debt.But for now it does seem as though the US dollar is still the prefered currency and investors including the Chinese are willing to give their money to the US Government.As an American I look forward to the day when the US budget is balanced and no more people are willing to extend credit to the rich politicians and their friends to spend like there is no tomorrow.

The past thirty years have really seen a grave tactical error committed on the part of the West.

Globalised deregulated capitalism has allowed jobs and wealth to flow Eastwards in a short sighted lust for maximised profits.

The result is debt, joblessness and significant strategic weaknesses across Europe generally and even more significantly in the US, while China has been posting double digits growth figures and amassing $trillions in foreign reserves and buying quality assets all over the world.

Taking into consideration the US goverment’s plans to slash budget spending by more than $ 1 trillion for each of the next 3 years, which will result into a gdp reduction, it won’t be too long before China overtakes the US as the largest economy of the world.

"I can se I sparked some commnets in this one, but my favoured b92 editor did not post my coment on Zubin potok attack. I wonder WHY? The truth hurts, right?
(Agim Kelmendi, 14 February 2011 21:43)"

Why, you ask? Maybe you wrote nonsense or expletives. Or maybe you wrote racist or defamatory stuff. Which is beneath the dignity of any self-respecting online forum. Yes, truth hurts, right? At least we can agree on the last one.

By the way, that Zubin Potok incident is utterly irrelevant to this thread.

US weakens its own currency($), so that most of European countries buy a lots of goods made in USA, and in return US buys its own $ from China with Euros, which is very low. When the time is ripe and China ran out of USD in its treasury, then US will weaken Euro and buy euro from China for very low. Before you know it, we have a revolution in China.
(Agim Kelmendi, 14 February 2011 17:28

How does it come the Americans haven't thought of your formula before? Maybe they've realised they've got nothing to sell to Europe or the rest of the world.The only products they've been selling in the last 30 years are the dodgy mortgages and derivatives (hot air).

You've also failed to notice the BRIC countries have more or less replaced the dollar as a means of exchange in their trading activities.Even the IMF now is calling for the dollar replacement as word reserve currency.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/11/imf-calls-for-dollar-alternative_n_821795.html

i dont think america is number 1 anymore and i dont think anyone does its china and Russia that are world powers .

Not a chance for China to surppase US economy.

US weakens its own currency($), so that most of European countries buy a lots of goods made in USA, and in return US buys its own $ from China with Euros, which is very low. When the time is ripe and China ran out of USD in its treasury, then US will weaken Euro and buy euro from China for very low. Before you know it, we have a revolution in China.
(Agim Kelmendi, 14 February 2011 17:28)

Pure genius. Its economist like you that are leading the US economy right into the ground.

Let’s be a bit more accurate here. China surpassed Japan’s economy in December 2009 and not yesterday. Technically China is on the brink of surpassing the US and possibly will before the year is out, but you may hear about it in say 2015.

The Chinese should massively reduce its holdings of greenback next.
http://www.afterld.com/showthread.php?29685-IMF-wants-to-dump-the-dollar&p=900801
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-08-11/u-s-is-bankrupt-and-we-don-t-even-know-commentary-by-laurence-kotlikoff.html

Maybe they've realised they've got nothing to sell to Europe or the rest of the world.The only products they've been selling in the last 30 years are the dodgy mortgages and derivatives (hot air).
(Leonidas, 14 February 2011 19:17)

Blame the other side, too. Why don't you buy American-made "seven-seater" Toyota or Honda with A+ crash test, 10 l/100km, 3.5 liter powerful engine - and California emissions for 18000 Euro?

These are made in America... NOT for European market, because European bureaucrats are totally off.

Instead, Americans can sell in Europe cars no one wants to buy in America.

Of course, Europeans are not stupid... and try to get the good stuff on their own, as "grey" import. And because of 10% duty and 19-25% of VAT (what a robbery!) they sometimes go for straight "black" import.

And the joke is... Americans aren't even "politically correct". Some cars are either assembled in North Korea or made with North Korean parts. Of course by Hyundai/Kia... but still.

Just look up the http://www.edmunds.com

What prices are paid? Rarely, the MSRP. What we usually pay is "Invoice", with every available incentive deducted from the "invoice" and $500 bill added. The $500 plus the so-called "hold-back" (the later being part of invoice) is what dealership gets from us.

Unlike in Europe the car selling is very transparent, you see everything... if you are informed. Of course, people who don't know pay different prices, but it's the problem with them being not informed.

Example.

You want to get a BMW X3 xDrive28i. That's a good car to say the least. It is made in Greer, South_Carolina (so "Buy American" even for BMW).

With few clicks in "Edmunds" you will see that the "base" (pretty advanced!) model with quite a lot of things will cost $33,810 "Invoice", $36,750 "MSRP" and "True Market Value" $35,640

The dealer has 3% "holdback" being part of the "invoice" (minus the $875 destination fee), so he already has at least $1000 profit if he sells at "invoice". If it's a slow day, he will probably settle on $34,500 even. If he is greedy, it will be $35,000. I would try to offer slightly over invoice, say, $34,000 at first and shop around. Just watch out, what are the "preparation costs" and set them, too. The tax (VAT) depends on the State. Europeans should buy for export in a state with minimal registration fees and no sales tax.

OK - so how much in Europe for the same? Looking at German BMW web site I see the things begin with EUR 45.950,– or $61,573

So.... OK, given that I am good at organizing:

- $34,500 will be out-of-the door (New Hampshire, Delaware, etc.)
- $37,000 will be in Rotterdam
- $40,700 will be after paying the duty
- $48,433 will be after paying the VAT
- ca. $50,000 will be after converting to EU standard

Ouch!!! Just saved over $10,000 (and not doing mean tricks). And of course who can - tries to save the VAT.

This was just an example that America DOES have certain things to sell for an European... in large part blame the EU and taxes.

Japan has 120 million people while China has 1.3 billion.At this rate it will take China at least 50 years to catch up to Japan's per capita income which is really the only significant measure of how well a person is living.Nevertheless it is a great thing that many Chinese are being lifted out of poverty.If China would have folllowed correct economic policies after WW2 it would have been as well off as Japan is today.Economics is a win win for all when done right.People in the US or Switzerland or Germany or Norway will not be worse off because people in China or India or Brazil or Russia are improving their economic lives.A decent standard of living can be had by all even though not all of us can or even need to live like Bill Gates or Silvio Berlusconi.

"US weakens its own currency($), so that most of European countries buy a lots of goods made in USA, and in return US buys its own $ from China with Euros, which is very low. When the time is ripe and China ran out of USD in its treasury, then US will weaken Euro and buy euro from for very low. Before you know it, we have a revolution in China.
(Agim Kelmendi, 14 February 2011 17:28)"

If all this was so easy for the Yankees to do as you claimed, don't you think that they would have done it long ago already?

http://www.federalbudget.com/

http://www.lewrockwell.com/rozeff/rozeff328.html

I wonder how sustainable is China's growth... how long can they maintain their rapid expansion.
(Lazar, 15 February 2011 07:20)

It is estimated that China can maintain this level of growth for the next 40 years. It is in the process of building entire new cities from scratch – railways, tram systems, bridges etc. Ask Australia how long they think this will go on – their Federal treasury believes there is no end in the foreseeable future. You have to see this level of construction to believe it – words are not enough.

Not that I'm taking sides but let's face it the world needs China as a trading partner( even if it isn't a significant trading partner to some nations). If necessary, as a watch collector I'm proud of some of my Chinese made watches that are among my collection of watches.

attack. I wonder WHY? The truth hurts, right?
(Agim Kelmendi, 14 February 2011 21:43)

As long as you keep yourself asking "why" remains some hope the bells will wake you up one day....\

As to the US, for sure number 1 in arrogance, in deficit, in lies, in conspiracy and hot air creation with no competition around...

Japan can export only so much to China - let's not kid ourselves. Food is expensive in Japan because Japan doesn't have the capacity to grow it themselves - much of food in Japan is imported from China.
Growing anti-Japanese sentiment is still high around China. I don't doubt they have things to export to China, of course they do, but not nearly as much as they need to import from Zhongguo.

I buy american goods. They just happen to be produced in China. The West severely damages itself by obsessively looking at short term profits, rather than medium to long term strategy and investment. Cheap or free education is fundamental to a country's ability to adapt and survive. Sure, you can still produce some stars, but nowhere near enough in the quantities required even by domestic industry. Solution? Give visas to the sufficiently skilled foreigners. They make lots of money and then go home and make even more money in emerging markets. US looses tax revenue. Stupid, stupid, stupid.

BTW, I am looking forward to the day that China eclipses world no.1 economy, Albania!

When the time is ripe and China ran out of USD in its treasury, then US will weaken Euro and buy euro from China for very low. Before you know it, we have a revolution in China.
(Agim Kelmendi, 14 February 2011 17:28)

RE: Kelmendian Economics,
I always thought that Keynesian economics was scary, but after reading above, does not even come close. There are two sides of the equation in the Balance of Trade; you have Capital inflows and outflows as well as the balance of imports and exports between countries. The United States imports more than it exports to China and is paying massive amounts of capital outflows to China contributing to the US trillion dollar debt. The US can lower its currency as much as it wants, this may increase imports at a marginal rate but it will substantially decrease capital inflows from investment and increase the debt even more too possibly a state of bankruptcy.

China is laughing at the United States and many of its trading partners. It uses the pre-text of free trade while not allowing the same advantages in its own country and market. In a recent interview with Donald Trump who is considering running for the office of the President of the United States, he quite bluntly stated that all Chinese goods should be slapped with a 25% tax until they come to the table and trade in good faith.

Taking into consideration the US goverment’s plans to slash budget spending by more than $ 1 trillion for each of the next 3 years, which will result into a gdp reduction, it won’t be too long before China overtakes the US as the largest economy of the world.
(Leonidas, 14 February 2011 16:50)

Not a chance for China to surppase US economy.

US weakens its own currency($), so that most of European countries buy a lots of goods made in USA, and in return US buys its own $ from China with Euros, which is very low. When the time is ripe and China ran out of USD in its treasury, then US will weaken Euro and buy euro from China for very low. Before you know it, we have a revolution in China.

there is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over

I can se I sparked some commnets in this one, but my favoured b92 editor did not post my coment on Zubin potok attack. I wonder WHY? The truth hurts, right?

I wonder how sustainable is China's growth... how long can they maintain their rapid expansion.

there are still tens of millions of people in china who have not sat(let a lone driven)in a car or used an indoor restroom.
they have 50 cities of over a million people..they graduate thousands of people a day and know the western financial systems maybe better then westerners...they have many tools in place to grow fast for many years.
they make a priority to develop markets outside us and europe in hopes they will not need us or eu markets someday..we still have leverage we'll see for how long

Good for China.

Did anybody see this yesterday?

[link]

In fact, it answers to the question why the Chinese protests at the time were not so strong.
(KU, 15 February 2011 15:26)

Look in the top right corner. It says "New York Post". You'd do better then to believe that

Did anybody see this yesterday?

[link]

In fact, it answers to the question why the Chinese protests at the time were not so strong.
(KU, 15 February 2011 15:26) "

I missed that - but the story has been around since at least 1999:

[link].

I never expected confirmation from China, I have to admit.
(Amer, 15 February 2011 19:18)

I repeat again and again that bombing was the biggest mistake of the 20 century and one which has cost the US dearly. The conssessions made to China were staggering to say the least – membershiop to the WTO without question, continued Chinese goods to receive favoured status and many more. As I have said it would have been cheaper for the US to build a brand new Chinese embassy in Belgrade using 24 carat gold bars than to give these conssessions.

Just for your information you could have used old artillery pieces to do the same job – just putting a camera on a conventional bomb and dropping it out of an airplane does not make it anymore superior.

Good for China.

Did anybody see this yesterday?

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/truth_about_mistake_bombing_of_chinese_xe7DojXC5DPKhyGOarm3PN

In fact, it answers to the question why the Chinese protests at the time were not so strong.

"The US would probably even volunteer to contribute to your salary. Handsomely.
(Amer, 16 February 2011 19:49) "

http://www.federalbudget.com/

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-08-11/u-s-is-bankrupt-and-we-don-t-even-know-commentary-by-laurence-kotlikoff.html

"Did anybody see this yesterday?

[link]

In fact, it answers to the question why the Chinese protests at the time were not so strong.
(KU, 15 February 2011 15:26) "

I missed that - but the story has been around since at least 1999:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/theobserver/1999/nov/28/focus.news1?INTCMP=SRCH.

I never expected confirmation from China, I have to admit.

Hear it showes me have Serbian suport the komunist country like china&russia,
let me tell you the figer of the world's top ten,
United States;£9.4trillion GDP
china;£3.5trillion GDP
and you lovely Russia is wery por,
Russia only,£915 billion,GDP
so Russia&china is to far to take USA,
china:£3.5trillion

"Look in the top right corner. It says "New York Post". You'd do better then to believe that
(Jay-Z, 15 February 2011 18:58) "

The Post took the story from the (London) Sunday Times - you can see the Times' front page in today's Politika: http://www.politika.rs/rubrike/Svet/Sandej-tajms-Srpski-obavestajci-u-kineskoj-ambasadi.lt.html

I wonder why they chose to publish it now? has Wikileaks released something?

"Look in the top right corner. It says "New York Post". You'd do better then to believe that"
(Jay-Z, 15 February 2011 18:58)

Well, New York Post is just republishing what others are saying. Balkaninsight reprinted this yesterday also, taking it from the Sunday Times. The original source is also mentioned inside the article:

"from a series of essays written in retirement by Jiang, 85, who stepped down from his last post in 2004."

"according to the magazine Qiansao (Outpost), which quoted Jiang's aides and family members."

We'll see, next thing might be Jiang Zemin denying these news. For now I tend to believe them.

(Amer, 15 February 2011 19:18)

Thanks for the article Amer. Yes it looks like this was already known. I did not know these details. The description of the morning meeting of 8 May in Vincenza base between americans and allies confirms also some points of "the lessons learned from operation allied force" where it says that europeans were complaining that the US were withholding information from them. This is an interesting reading:

http://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/monograph_reports/2007/MR1391.pdf

One question that pops into my mind is. Did the US warn the Chinese before the bombing? Something like: "look, we know there are Serbian intelligence units inside the embassy, we have proof. Stop it or we will bomb it." Or was it an opportunity target? Or maybe they wanted to send a message to China, which was arming Serbia to shoot down NATO planes via Lybia after all, and just did not warn China at all?

"One question that pops into my mind is. Did the US warn the Chinese before the bombing? Something like: "look, we know there are Serbian intelligence units inside the embassy, we have proof. Stop it or we will bomb it." Or was it an opportunity target? Or maybe they wanted to send a message to China, which was arming Serbia to shoot down NATO planes via Lybia after all, and just did not warn China at all?
(KU, 15 February 2011 21:54) "


Interesting questions, none of which I have any way of knowing the answers to. Maybe there will be other memoirs in the future, from the US side. You can see how the Chinese memoirist might have felt it impossible to admit receiving such a message, if there had been one. Of course, the US might have reasoned that sending such a message would have led to the Chinese simply making sure the embassy was fully staffed at all hours of the day and night with non-military Chinese staff to make it impossible to bomb the building.

"Just for your information you could have used old artillery pieces to do the same job – just putting a camera on a conventional bomb and dropping it out of an airplane does not make it anymore superior.
(sj, 16 February 2011 00:47) "

Priceless.

I sincerely hope you get a high-ranking job in either the Serbian or (even better) the Chinese military command. The US would probably even volunteer to contribute to your salary. Handsomely.

I can se I sparked some commnets in this one, but my favoured b92 editor did not post my coment on Zubin potok attack. I wonder WHY? The truth hurts, right?

Taking into consideration the US goverment’s plans to slash budget spending by more than $ 1 trillion for each of the next 3 years, which will result into a gdp reduction, it won’t be too long before China overtakes the US as the largest economy of the world.
(Leonidas, 14 February 2011 16:50)

Not a chance for China to surppase US economy.

US weakens its own currency($), so that most of European countries buy a lots of goods made in USA, and in return US buys its own $ from China with Euros, which is very low. When the time is ripe and China ran out of USD in its treasury, then US will weaken Euro and buy euro from China for very low. Before you know it, we have a revolution in China.

i dont think america is number 1 anymore and i dont think anyone does its china and Russia that are world powers .

This is old news. In fact, China has already overtaken the US when measured by purchasing power. Even that news is one month old. Check http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-01-14/china-tops-u-s-as-biggest-economy-by-purchasing-power-update1-.html

US weakens its own currency($), so that most of European countries buy a lots of goods made in USA, and in return US buys its own $ from China with Euros, which is very low. When the time is ripe and China ran out of USD in its treasury, then US will weaken Euro and buy euro from China for very low. Before you know it, we have a revolution in China.
(Agim Kelmendi, 14 February 2011 17:28

How does it come the Americans haven't thought of your formula before? Maybe they've realised they've got nothing to sell to Europe or the rest of the world.The only products they've been selling in the last 30 years are the dodgy mortgages and derivatives (hot air).

You've also failed to notice the BRIC countries have more or less replaced the dollar as a means of exchange in their trading activities.Even the IMF now is calling for the dollar replacement as word reserve currency.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/11/imf-calls-for-dollar-alternative_n_821795.html

"US weakens its own currency($), so that most of European countries buy a lots of goods made in USA, and in return US buys its own $ from China with Euros, which is very low. When the time is ripe and China ran out of USD in its treasury, then US will weaken Euro and buy euro from for very low. Before you know it, we have a revolution in China.
(Agim Kelmendi, 14 February 2011 17:28)"

If all this was so easy for the Yankees to do as you claimed, don't you think that they would have done it long ago already?

http://www.federalbudget.com/

http://www.lewrockwell.com/rozeff/rozeff328.html

The past thirty years have really seen a grave tactical error committed on the part of the West.

Globalised deregulated capitalism has allowed jobs and wealth to flow Eastwards in a short sighted lust for maximised profits.

The result is debt, joblessness and significant strategic weaknesses across Europe generally and even more significantly in the US, while China has been posting double digits growth figures and amassing $trillions in foreign reserves and buying quality assets all over the world.

Taking into consideration the US goverment’s plans to slash budget spending by more than $ 1 trillion for each of the next 3 years, which will result into a gdp reduction, it won’t be too long before China overtakes the US as the largest economy of the world.

Hear it showes me have Serbian suport the komunist country like china&russia,
let me tell you the figer of the world's top ten,
United States;£9.4trillion GDP
china;£3.5trillion GDP
and you lovely Russia is wery por,
Russia only,£915 billion,GDP
so Russia&china is to far to take USA,
china:£3.5trillion

I buy american goods. They just happen to be produced in China. The West severely damages itself by obsessively looking at short term profits, rather than medium to long term strategy and investment. Cheap or free education is fundamental to a country's ability to adapt and survive. Sure, you can still produce some stars, but nowhere near enough in the quantities required even by domestic industry. Solution? Give visas to the sufficiently skilled foreigners. They make lots of money and then go home and make even more money in emerging markets. US looses tax revenue. Stupid, stupid, stupid.

BTW, I am looking forward to the day that China eclipses world no.1 economy, Albania!

"The United States remains by some way the world’s biggest economy."

We do not know how much is the U.S. economy really worth because the number of inflated transactions is disproportionally high. Good example is the entire military industry, the healthcare and everything around legal expenses.

Example - is a 5-hour light asthma treatment at an emergency room really over $10K worth?

Or: for how much do you buy a roll of toilet paper at Costco and for how much Pentagon is billed for the toilet paper?

Good for China.

Did anybody see this yesterday?

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/truth_about_mistake_bombing_of_chinese_xe7DojXC5DPKhyGOarm3PN

In fact, it answers to the question why the Chinese protests at the time were not so strong.

As far as the US is concerned it may be a good thing if everybody including the Chinese stop buying US bonds which will force the US Government to actually balance its budget and live within its means.In 2000 the US had a budget surplus but thanks to Bush Jr. coming into office and going on a spending spree with his military adventures like a drunken sailor the US Government has been accumulating unnecessary debt.But for now it does seem as though the US dollar is still the prefered currency and investors including the Chinese are willing to give their money to the US Government.As an American I look forward to the day when the US budget is balanced and no more people are willing to extend credit to the rich politicians and their friends to spend like there is no tomorrow.

"Look in the top right corner. It says "New York Post". You'd do better then to believe that
(Jay-Z, 15 February 2011 18:58) "

The Post took the story from the (London) Sunday Times - you can see the Times' front page in today's Politika: http://www.politika.rs/rubrike/Svet/Sandej-tajms-Srpski-obavestajci-u-kineskoj-ambasadi.lt.html

I wonder why they chose to publish it now? has Wikileaks released something?

"Look in the top right corner. It says "New York Post". You'd do better then to believe that"
(Jay-Z, 15 February 2011 18:58)

Well, New York Post is just republishing what others are saying. Balkaninsight reprinted this yesterday also, taking it from the Sunday Times. The original source is also mentioned inside the article:

"from a series of essays written in retirement by Jiang, 85, who stepped down from his last post in 2004."

"according to the magazine Qiansao (Outpost), which quoted Jiang's aides and family members."

We'll see, next thing might be Jiang Zemin denying these news. For now I tend to believe them.

The Chinese should massively reduce its holdings of greenback next.
http://www.afterld.com/showthread.php?29685-IMF-wants-to-dump-the-dollar&p=900801
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-08-11/u-s-is-bankrupt-and-we-don-t-even-know-commentary-by-laurence-kotlikoff.html

Not that I'm taking sides but let's face it the world needs China as a trading partner( even if it isn't a significant trading partner to some nations). If necessary, as a watch collector I'm proud of some of my Chinese made watches that are among my collection of watches.

attack. I wonder WHY? The truth hurts, right?
(Agim Kelmendi, 14 February 2011 21:43)

As long as you keep yourself asking "why" remains some hope the bells will wake you up one day....\

As to the US, for sure number 1 in arrogance, in deficit, in lies, in conspiracy and hot air creation with no competition around...

"Did anybody see this yesterday?

[link]

In fact, it answers to the question why the Chinese protests at the time were not so strong.
(KU, 15 February 2011 15:26) "

I missed that - but the story has been around since at least 1999:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/theobserver/1999/nov/28/focus.news1?INTCMP=SRCH.

I never expected confirmation from China, I have to admit.

(Amer, 15 February 2011 19:18)

Thanks for the article Amer. Yes it looks like this was already known. I did not know these details. The description of the morning meeting of 8 May in Vincenza base between americans and allies confirms also some points of "the lessons learned from operation allied force" where it says that europeans were complaining that the US were withholding information from them. This is an interesting reading:

http://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/monograph_reports/2007/MR1391.pdf

One question that pops into my mind is. Did the US warn the Chinese before the bombing? Something like: "look, we know there are Serbian intelligence units inside the embassy, we have proof. Stop it or we will bomb it." Or was it an opportunity target? Or maybe they wanted to send a message to China, which was arming Serbia to shoot down NATO planes via Lybia after all, and just did not warn China at all?

Maybe they've realised they've got nothing to sell to Europe or the rest of the world.The only products they've been selling in the last 30 years are the dodgy mortgages and derivatives (hot air).
(Leonidas, 14 February 2011 19:17)

Blame the other side, too. Why don't you buy American-made "seven-seater" Toyota or Honda with A+ crash test, 10 l/100km, 3.5 liter powerful engine - and California emissions for 18000 Euro?

These are made in America... NOT for European market, because European bureaucrats are totally off.

Instead, Americans can sell in Europe cars no one wants to buy in America.

Of course, Europeans are not stupid... and try to get the good stuff on their own, as "grey" import. And because of 10% duty and 19-25% of VAT (what a robbery!) they sometimes go for straight "black" import.

And the joke is... Americans aren't even "politically correct". Some cars are either assembled in North Korea or made with North Korean parts. Of course by Hyundai/Kia... but still.

Just look up the http://www.edmunds.com

What prices are paid? Rarely, the MSRP. What we usually pay is "Invoice", with every available incentive deducted from the "invoice" and $500 bill added. The $500 plus the so-called "hold-back" (the later being part of invoice) is what dealership gets from us.

Unlike in Europe the car selling is very transparent, you see everything... if you are informed. Of course, people who don't know pay different prices, but it's the problem with them being not informed.

Example.

You want to get a BMW X3 xDrive28i. That's a good car to say the least. It is made in Greer, South_Carolina (so "Buy American" even for BMW).

With few clicks in "Edmunds" you will see that the "base" (pretty advanced!) model with quite a lot of things will cost $33,810 "Invoice", $36,750 "MSRP" and "True Market Value" $35,640

The dealer has 3% "holdback" being part of the "invoice" (minus the $875 destination fee), so he already has at least $1000 profit if he sells at "invoice". If it's a slow day, he will probably settle on $34,500 even. If he is greedy, it will be $35,000. I would try to offer slightly over invoice, say, $34,000 at first and shop around. Just watch out, what are the "preparation costs" and set them, too. The tax (VAT) depends on the State. Europeans should buy for export in a state with minimal registration fees and no sales tax.

OK - so how much in Europe for the same? Looking at German BMW web site I see the things begin with EUR 45.950,– or $61,573

So.... OK, given that I am good at organizing:

- $34,500 will be out-of-the door (New Hampshire, Delaware, etc.)
- $37,000 will be in Rotterdam
- $40,700 will be after paying the duty
- $48,433 will be after paying the VAT
- ca. $50,000 will be after converting to EU standard

Ouch!!! Just saved over $10,000 (and not doing mean tricks). And of course who can - tries to save the VAT.

This was just an example that America DOES have certain things to sell for an European... in large part blame the EU and taxes.

Not a chance for China to surppase US economy.

US weakens its own currency($), so that most of European countries buy a lots of goods made in USA, and in return US buys its own $ from China with Euros, which is very low. When the time is ripe and China ran out of USD in its treasury, then US will weaken Euro and buy euro from China for very low. Before you know it, we have a revolution in China.
(Agim Kelmendi, 14 February 2011 17:28)

Pure genius. Its economist like you that are leading the US economy right into the ground.

Let’s be a bit more accurate here. China surpassed Japan’s economy in December 2009 and not yesterday. Technically China is on the brink of surpassing the US and possibly will before the year is out, but you may hear about it in say 2015.

"I can se I sparked some commnets in this one, but my favoured b92 editor did not post my coment on Zubin potok attack. I wonder WHY? The truth hurts, right?
(Agim Kelmendi, 14 February 2011 21:43)"

Why, you ask? Maybe you wrote nonsense or expletives. Or maybe you wrote racist or defamatory stuff. Which is beneath the dignity of any self-respecting online forum. Yes, truth hurts, right? At least we can agree on the last one.

By the way, that Zubin Potok incident is utterly irrelevant to this thread.

When the time is ripe and China ran out of USD in its treasury, then US will weaken Euro and buy euro from China for very low. Before you know it, we have a revolution in China.
(Agim Kelmendi, 14 February 2011 17:28)

RE: Kelmendian Economics,
I always thought that Keynesian economics was scary, but after reading above, does not even come close. There are two sides of the equation in the Balance of Trade; you have Capital inflows and outflows as well as the balance of imports and exports between countries. The United States imports more than it exports to China and is paying massive amounts of capital outflows to China contributing to the US trillion dollar debt. The US can lower its currency as much as it wants, this may increase imports at a marginal rate but it will substantially decrease capital inflows from investment and increase the debt even more too possibly a state of bankruptcy.

China is laughing at the United States and many of its trading partners. It uses the pre-text of free trade while not allowing the same advantages in its own country and market. In a recent interview with Donald Trump who is considering running for the office of the President of the United States, he quite bluntly stated that all Chinese goods should be slapped with a 25% tax until they come to the table and trade in good faith.

Did anybody see this yesterday?

[link]

In fact, it answers to the question why the Chinese protests at the time were not so strong.
(KU, 15 February 2011 15:26) "

I missed that - but the story has been around since at least 1999:

[link].

I never expected confirmation from China, I have to admit.
(Amer, 15 February 2011 19:18)

I repeat again and again that bombing was the biggest mistake of the 20 century and one which has cost the US dearly. The conssessions made to China were staggering to say the least – membershiop to the WTO without question, continued Chinese goods to receive favoured status and many more. As I have said it would have been cheaper for the US to build a brand new Chinese embassy in Belgrade using 24 carat gold bars than to give these conssessions.

Just for your information you could have used old artillery pieces to do the same job – just putting a camera on a conventional bomb and dropping it out of an airplane does not make it anymore superior.

"Just for your information you could have used old artillery pieces to do the same job – just putting a camera on a conventional bomb and dropping it out of an airplane does not make it anymore superior.
(sj, 16 February 2011 00:47) "

Priceless.

I sincerely hope you get a high-ranking job in either the Serbian or (even better) the Chinese military command. The US would probably even volunteer to contribute to your salary. Handsomely.

Japan has 120 million people while China has 1.3 billion.At this rate it will take China at least 50 years to catch up to Japan's per capita income which is really the only significant measure of how well a person is living.Nevertheless it is a great thing that many Chinese are being lifted out of poverty.If China would have folllowed correct economic policies after WW2 it would have been as well off as Japan is today.Economics is a win win for all when done right.People in the US or Switzerland or Germany or Norway will not be worse off because people in China or India or Brazil or Russia are improving their economic lives.A decent standard of living can be had by all even though not all of us can or even need to live like Bill Gates or Silvio Berlusconi.

I wonder how sustainable is China's growth... how long can they maintain their rapid expansion.

I wonder how sustainable is China's growth... how long can they maintain their rapid expansion.
(Lazar, 15 February 2011 07:20)

It is estimated that China can maintain this level of growth for the next 40 years. It is in the process of building entire new cities from scratch – railways, tram systems, bridges etc. Ask Australia how long they think this will go on – their Federal treasury believes there is no end in the foreseeable future. You have to see this level of construction to believe it – words are not enough.

there is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over

Japan can export only so much to China - let's not kid ourselves. Food is expensive in Japan because Japan doesn't have the capacity to grow it themselves - much of food in Japan is imported from China.
Growing anti-Japanese sentiment is still high around China. I don't doubt they have things to export to China, of course they do, but not nearly as much as they need to import from Zhongguo.

there are still tens of millions of people in china who have not sat(let a lone driven)in a car or used an indoor restroom.
they have 50 cities of over a million people..they graduate thousands of people a day and know the western financial systems maybe better then westerners...they have many tools in place to grow fast for many years.
they make a priority to develop markets outside us and europe in hopes they will not need us or eu markets someday..we still have leverage we'll see for how long

Good for China.

Did anybody see this yesterday?

[link]

In fact, it answers to the question why the Chinese protests at the time were not so strong.
(KU, 15 February 2011 15:26)

Look in the top right corner. It says "New York Post". You'd do better then to believe that

"One question that pops into my mind is. Did the US warn the Chinese before the bombing? Something like: "look, we know there are Serbian intelligence units inside the embassy, we have proof. Stop it or we will bomb it." Or was it an opportunity target? Or maybe they wanted to send a message to China, which was arming Serbia to shoot down NATO planes via Lybia after all, and just did not warn China at all?
(KU, 15 February 2011 21:54) "


Interesting questions, none of which I have any way of knowing the answers to. Maybe there will be other memoirs in the future, from the US side. You can see how the Chinese memoirist might have felt it impossible to admit receiving such a message, if there had been one. Of course, the US might have reasoned that sending such a message would have led to the Chinese simply making sure the embassy was fully staffed at all hours of the day and night with non-military Chinese staff to make it impossible to bomb the building.

"The US would probably even volunteer to contribute to your salary. Handsomely.
(Amer, 16 February 2011 19:49) "

http://www.federalbudget.com/

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-08-11/u-s-is-bankrupt-and-we-don-t-even-know-commentary-by-laurence-kotlikoff.html