NATO backs peace, security, integrations in Kosovo

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1. As plain as black and white. I said it last week: Kosovo government made the blueprints, EULEX to implement, KFOR, KPS, and KSF to execute it. Meanwhile, Serbs can have a front seat (binoculars needed because of the buffer zone) to watcy the unfolding of the plan to integrate north to its rightful place
(Mirub Jager, 1 February 2010 18:07

Man, you really are clueless. If you are not an Albanian as you claim, explain what is so personally important for you regarding the north? What do you personally have at stake there? Not a damn thing, just like 99% of the Albanians in Kosovo.

KSF in the north? EULEX to implement it? You really have no clue about anything here, "Mirub." EULEX is not doing anything of the sort. Just look at the spanking our spokesperson Karin Limdal got for implying we would implement ICO's plan.

Get ready to have your heart broken, nothing is changing up north. Mind your own business, eh?

As plain as black and white. I said it last week: Kosovo government made the blueprints, EULEX to implement, KFOR, KPS, and KSF to execute it. Meanwhile, Serbs can have a front seat (binoculars needed because of the buffer zone) to watcy the unfolding of the plan to integrate north to its rightful place

'These steps, according to Anders Fogh Rasmussen, include integration of all communities into the Kosovo society'.

What IS the 'Kosovo society'?

I question the indigenity of the Albanian population in Kosovo i Metohija.

I know that prior to WW1 there was a very small Albanian population relative to Serbs.
After WW2 the population was around 50/50 and then under communist rule the Albanian numbers grew to almost 75%.
However after 1999 the Albanian population in Pristina trebled in a period of a few months alone while the Serbs were being booted out (by NATO) or seeking refuge in the 'enclaves'.
How can a society be made out of this?

I do know one thing for sure.
No ethnic minority on Earth enjoyed the rights and freedoms which the Albanians availed of in the Southern Serbian province of Kosovo i Metohija until NATO invaded in '99 (with the Racak fiasco as its ticket).

MB,Ireland

Jason,

it's called winning for the worth of principle. Northen Kosovo has always been part of Kosova. We had to fight to death for our freedom, and we're not giving you Serbs 1 centimeter.

MB,

Idk your claims are beyond ridiculous. Feel free to provide sources.

Mirub, you cannot even decide who I am. In one sentence you tell me that Serbs like Albanians more than I do, the next sentence you say that I am a Serb. Make up your mind.

Your work for EULEX too? Great. I am sorry to hear we have someone who blindly follows orders with no thought as to the consequences. Isn't that what the guards did in the concentration camps?

You want to meet? Fine. As I said before to some other employee - once I am done here I will meet because anyone like you as I want to see what manner of international has such a undying love for Albanians and hatred for Serbs. Until I am done here, I must avoid meeting you because EULEX does not seem to like people thinking for themselves.

As for me and my opinions on this matter in the north, I used my brain rather than buying the official government line. I worked with UNMIK up north for a long time and learned that Serbs just want to be left alone and be governed by Belgrade. EULEX has convinced me that they do not have the best interests of Serbs in mind, hardening my own beliefs. Since I support democracy, I believe that the people should decide who rules them. Apparently you are in favor of forcing 95% of a population to do something against its will. Very democratic of you.

Well Mr Rasmussen, have fun with that stability when all yours and EULEX's troops are getting stones thrown at them by the local Serbs

NATO "supports" such an idea, but I wonder what they're going to do to actually implement such a strategy, knowing full well EULEX has made it perfectly clear the only way forward is through dialogue. Contrary to the expected Albanian armchair generals who want to use someone else's army to extend their reach (an army that is reducing its size and scope, so I wonder what they're going to use unless it's their own children in some over the top Romantic bout of nationalism as one poster a few days ago opined), I fail to see how a group of people adamantly opposed to being integrated into a society can be persuaded. I mean, the Albanians adamantly refused to be integrated back into the rest of Serbia, so I wonder why the same logic doesn't apply.

And yes Jason, I wonder too what the big deal is with a few people here who seem hell bent on controlling other peoples lives like little Eichmanns. It has to be ego. Ego and the need to think they're being taken seriously, because other than that, I fail to see the logic from these posters who spew all sorts of aggressive language towards a group of people they think should live under them as opposed to enjoying the freedoms they currently have.

Live and let live, because I cannot think of one single solitary reason why it would be better for K Serbs to live under Pristina's authority than it would for them to retain their own political structures with Belgrade. Especially when one considers the north.

it's called winning for the worth of principle. Northen Kosovo has always been part of Kosova. We had to fight to death for our freedom, and we're not giving you Serbs 1 centimeter.


(KOSOVARi, 1 February 2010 22:14)

There you have it folks! The ugly truth... Albanians want the north where they do not live only for "principle." Lovely. They are ready to see bloodshed (everyone's blood except theirs, of course) to take land that they have not not lived on for "principle."

Thank God that the international community has already stated no force will be used and no one except bloodthirsty Albanians like you wants more war. If it came down to that I would sooner quit my job than engage in such illegal and futile attempts to subdue 95% of an unwilling population - all for some Albanians' "principle."

You shall be sorely disappointed in the outcome up north, but thank you for your honesty. You have put your foot in your mouth for all to see.

Jason,

My attachment to Kosovar issue stems from my ideal of being on underdogs side. Kosovars went through hell and back. Thus, if you don't care about 95% of Kosovo population then you expect to care about 85% population of a municipality. Despite that, every day I work for integration of Serbs into Kosovo, just as is my boss and his boss and his bosses and the population in Kosovo and 95% of EU and 100% EULEX - for that is the best solution for the region.

You read it yourself from KFOR, Kosovo gov't and EULEX.

Jason from Canada!

You must be craving a Tim Hortons coffee right about now,eh!

I just want to say i enjoy reading your posts!

".....I fail to see how a group of people adamantly opposed to being integrated into a society can be persuaded. I mean, the Albanians adamantly refused to be integrated back into the rest of Serbia, so I wonder why the same logic doesn't apply." - Mike

Hi Mike
I've worked as an 'International' for the last decade in Kosovo i Metohija and it became very clear to me from the outset what the KFOR(NATO),US/UK/German and Albanian policy for Kosovo was and still is.

The 'Kosova' Albanians don't want the remaining Serbs in KiM to integrate with them.
They want them out, completely.
And they won't be satisfied with just that.

It might sound crazy to us 'Internationals' but many Albanians have designs on the city of Nis as well.Many of them have told me so. You see, 'albanisation' knows no frontiers.

It's not very different from the attempted perfidious 'albionisation' of my country.

MB,Ireland

And yes Jason, I wonder too what the big deal is with a few people here who seem hell bent on controlling other peoples lives like little Eichmanns. It has to be ego. Ego and the need to think they're being taken seriously, because other than that, I fail to see the logic from these posters who spew all sorts of aggressive language towards a group of people they think should live under them as opposed to enjoying the freedoms they currently have.

Live and let live, because I cannot think of one single solitary reason why it would be better for K Serbs to live under Pristina's authority than it would for them to retain their own political structures with Belgrade. Especially when one considers the north.
(Mike, 1 February 2010 23:45)

Well stated, Mike. Yes, our dear Albanian nationalist friends here will have their own self-determination come back to bite them very soon. They demand it yet deny it to others. This is beyond hypocrisy and it is on display for the world to see...

Another Canadian Serb,

I would kill for some Tim Horton's right now, believe me. Do they still make the chili in the bread bowl? Damn that was good too:)

When it comes to Prishtina takes control of the lawless northern part of Mitrovica., Is no doubt about it, I am convinced that ordinary people who live there would be more than happy to get rid of criminals, which means that they can not live a normal life . But one thing I was thinking how are so-called Kosovo Minister do when Prishtina take control of Mitrovica, Preseva Valley Ministerial perhaps, a suggestion.

Yeah, and the pigs might fly!
Only brute force can make the Serbs from North Kosovo accept Pristina authority and we all know that this is not an option any more. How long its gonna take for NATO to swallow its pride and admit the mistake they made, stop this stupidity called nation building and sit down at the table (Albanians included) and talk about the end, me think not long...

Jason,

Our opinions are just opinions we don't change nor make policy. But, time runs on Kosovars side. North will be Kosovo for Serbia will give up for financial reason and EU pressure.
Being that I work for EULEX (cat ll lev ll ) and I learned that you do so too, let's meet.
Before that I should explain that being non-albanian does not mean I don't have a right to express my opinions be that pro or against anyone.
As far as cluelessness, being that I'm assigned on grid 13 (you should know where) I work on daily basis with both sides and trust me when I tell you Serbs are far closer with Albanians and way less extreme than you. Then again you should know.

Why is it my business, you ask? It is my job.

You suspiciously ponder my nationality meanwhile yourself use a western name. You seem more stick up to the Kosovo issue than I am. I assume you are Serb as thus chances are you don't work for EULEX.
To thyself be true.

"Thanks prof, but don't blame me for the reality that is getting to you too, that's just the way things are. Serbs in the North will be very happy to join Pristina, after all that's their capital. I'm sorry that there is nothing that you can do about it." (miri)

-- Haha, and you talk about "reality" after what you just wrote. Is it always this sunny in your world? Silly miri :)

NATO "supports" such an idea, but I wonder what they're going to do to actually implement such a strategy, knowing full well EULEX has made it perfectly clear the only way forward is through dialogue. Contrary to the expected Albanian armchair generals who want to use someone else's army to extend their reach (an army that is reducing its size and scope, so I wonder what they're going to use unless it's their own children in some over the top Romantic bout of nationalism as one poster a few days ago opined), I fail to see how a group of people adamantly opposed to being integrated into a society can be persuaded. I mean, the Albanians adamantly refused to be integrated back into the rest of Serbia, so I wonder why the same logic doesn't apply.

And yes Jason, I wonder too what the big deal is with a few people here who seem hell bent on controlling other peoples lives like little Eichmanns. It has to be ego. Ego and the need to think they're being taken seriously, because other than that, I fail to see the logic from these posters who spew all sorts of aggressive language towards a group of people they think should live under them as opposed to enjoying the freedoms they currently have.

Live and let live, because I cannot think of one single solitary reason why it would be better for K Serbs to live under Pristina's authority than it would for them to retain their own political structures with Belgrade. Especially when one considers the north.
(Mike, 1 February 2010 23:45)

Oh boy oh boy, the professor is talking about me! me!
Thanks prof, but don't blame me for the reality that is getting to you too, that's just the way things are. Serbs in the North will be very happy to join Pristina, after all that's their capital. I'm sorry that there is nothing that you can do about it. Even special people like you can't fight NATO alone.
When that happens, don't complain that no one warned you.
Chill out and thanks for "remembering" my post. I'm flattered.

Mirub,

You want to talk about underdogs? What about the US and its Western European allies ganging up on 40-something thousand Serbs in the north who don't want anything to do with "Kosova."

Those sound like underdogs to me. Why not re-examine your own principles and think for yourself for once rather than buy the propaganda we are force-fed by EULEX?

Simple math and a little bit of democracy. In this case we are not talking about Kosovo at large here but rather the northern municipalities that are overwhelmingly Serbian (and always have been so.) It seems arrogant that Brussels and Washington should dictate to 95% of a people how they should live.

So because you fought for your freedom KOSOVARi, it's a matter of principle that oyu have to make life for the Serbs a living hell wherever they are in Kosovo.

Come on all you Albanians are contradicting yourselves. Every argument you used to get 'independence' you are now turning on its head just because you want whats worst for the Serbs. Who are you to demand territorial integrity for anyone? And guess what, the boundaries of Kosovo were drawn up by the Serbs, not the Albanians. So the territorial integrity of a state that doesn't exist means absolutely nothing.

'These steps, according to Anders Fogh Rasmussen, include integration of all communities into the Kosovo society'.

What IS the 'Kosovo society'?

I question the indigenity of the Albanian population in Kosovo i Metohija.

I know that prior to WW1 there was a very small Albanian population relative to Serbs.
After WW2 the population was around 50/50 and then under communist rule the Albanian numbers grew to almost 75%.
However after 1999 the Albanian population in Pristina trebled in a period of a few months alone while the Serbs were being booted out (by NATO) or seeking refuge in the 'enclaves'.
How can a society be made out of this?

I do know one thing for sure.
No ethnic minority on Earth enjoyed the rights and freedoms which the Albanians availed of in the Southern Serbian province of Kosovo i Metohija until NATO invaded in '99 (with the Racak fiasco as its ticket).

MB,Ireland

As plain as black and white. I said it last week: Kosovo government made the blueprints, EULEX to implement, KFOR, KPS, and KSF to execute it. Meanwhile, Serbs can have a front seat (binoculars needed because of the buffer zone) to watcy the unfolding of the plan to integrate north to its rightful place

Well Mr Rasmussen, have fun with that stability when all yours and EULEX's troops are getting stones thrown at them by the local Serbs

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1. As plain as black and white. I said it last week: Kosovo government made the blueprints, EULEX to implement, KFOR, KPS, and KSF to execute it. Meanwhile, Serbs can have a front seat (binoculars needed because of the buffer zone) to watcy the unfolding of the plan to integrate north to its rightful place
(Mirub Jager, 1 February 2010 18:07

Man, you really are clueless. If you are not an Albanian as you claim, explain what is so personally important for you regarding the north? What do you personally have at stake there? Not a damn thing, just like 99% of the Albanians in Kosovo.

KSF in the north? EULEX to implement it? You really have no clue about anything here, "Mirub." EULEX is not doing anything of the sort. Just look at the spanking our spokesperson Karin Limdal got for implying we would implement ICO's plan.

Get ready to have your heart broken, nothing is changing up north. Mind your own business, eh?

Jason,

it's called winning for the worth of principle. Northen Kosovo has always been part of Kosova. We had to fight to death for our freedom, and we're not giving you Serbs 1 centimeter.

MB,

Idk your claims are beyond ridiculous. Feel free to provide sources.

Jason from Canada!

You must be craving a Tim Hortons coffee right about now,eh!

I just want to say i enjoy reading your posts!

When it comes to Prishtina takes control of the lawless northern part of Mitrovica., Is no doubt about it, I am convinced that ordinary people who live there would be more than happy to get rid of criminals, which means that they can not live a normal life . But one thing I was thinking how are so-called Kosovo Minister do when Prishtina take control of Mitrovica, Preseva Valley Ministerial perhaps, a suggestion.

Jason,

My attachment to Kosovar issue stems from my ideal of being on underdogs side. Kosovars went through hell and back. Thus, if you don't care about 95% of Kosovo population then you expect to care about 85% population of a municipality. Despite that, every day I work for integration of Serbs into Kosovo, just as is my boss and his boss and his bosses and the population in Kosovo and 95% of EU and 100% EULEX - for that is the best solution for the region.

You read it yourself from KFOR, Kosovo gov't and EULEX.

Jason,

Our opinions are just opinions we don't change nor make policy. But, time runs on Kosovars side. North will be Kosovo for Serbia will give up for financial reason and EU pressure.
Being that I work for EULEX (cat ll lev ll ) and I learned that you do so too, let's meet.
Before that I should explain that being non-albanian does not mean I don't have a right to express my opinions be that pro or against anyone.
As far as cluelessness, being that I'm assigned on grid 13 (you should know where) I work on daily basis with both sides and trust me when I tell you Serbs are far closer with Albanians and way less extreme than you. Then again you should know.

Why is it my business, you ask? It is my job.

You suspiciously ponder my nationality meanwhile yourself use a western name. You seem more stick up to the Kosovo issue than I am. I assume you are Serb as thus chances are you don't work for EULEX.
To thyself be true.

NATO "supports" such an idea, but I wonder what they're going to do to actually implement such a strategy, knowing full well EULEX has made it perfectly clear the only way forward is through dialogue. Contrary to the expected Albanian armchair generals who want to use someone else's army to extend their reach (an army that is reducing its size and scope, so I wonder what they're going to use unless it's their own children in some over the top Romantic bout of nationalism as one poster a few days ago opined), I fail to see how a group of people adamantly opposed to being integrated into a society can be persuaded. I mean, the Albanians adamantly refused to be integrated back into the rest of Serbia, so I wonder why the same logic doesn't apply.

And yes Jason, I wonder too what the big deal is with a few people here who seem hell bent on controlling other peoples lives like little Eichmanns. It has to be ego. Ego and the need to think they're being taken seriously, because other than that, I fail to see the logic from these posters who spew all sorts of aggressive language towards a group of people they think should live under them as opposed to enjoying the freedoms they currently have.

Live and let live, because I cannot think of one single solitary reason why it would be better for K Serbs to live under Pristina's authority than it would for them to retain their own political structures with Belgrade. Especially when one considers the north.
(Mike, 1 February 2010 23:45)

Oh boy oh boy, the professor is talking about me! me!
Thanks prof, but don't blame me for the reality that is getting to you too, that's just the way things are. Serbs in the North will be very happy to join Pristina, after all that's their capital. I'm sorry that there is nothing that you can do about it. Even special people like you can't fight NATO alone.
When that happens, don't complain that no one warned you.
Chill out and thanks for "remembering" my post. I'm flattered.

it's called winning for the worth of principle. Northen Kosovo has always been part of Kosova. We had to fight to death for our freedom, and we're not giving you Serbs 1 centimeter.


(KOSOVARi, 1 February 2010 22:14)

There you have it folks! The ugly truth... Albanians want the north where they do not live only for "principle." Lovely. They are ready to see bloodshed (everyone's blood except theirs, of course) to take land that they have not not lived on for "principle."

Thank God that the international community has already stated no force will be used and no one except bloodthirsty Albanians like you wants more war. If it came down to that I would sooner quit my job than engage in such illegal and futile attempts to subdue 95% of an unwilling population - all for some Albanians' "principle."

You shall be sorely disappointed in the outcome up north, but thank you for your honesty. You have put your foot in your mouth for all to see.

NATO "supports" such an idea, but I wonder what they're going to do to actually implement such a strategy, knowing full well EULEX has made it perfectly clear the only way forward is through dialogue. Contrary to the expected Albanian armchair generals who want to use someone else's army to extend their reach (an army that is reducing its size and scope, so I wonder what they're going to use unless it's their own children in some over the top Romantic bout of nationalism as one poster a few days ago opined), I fail to see how a group of people adamantly opposed to being integrated into a society can be persuaded. I mean, the Albanians adamantly refused to be integrated back into the rest of Serbia, so I wonder why the same logic doesn't apply.

And yes Jason, I wonder too what the big deal is with a few people here who seem hell bent on controlling other peoples lives like little Eichmanns. It has to be ego. Ego and the need to think they're being taken seriously, because other than that, I fail to see the logic from these posters who spew all sorts of aggressive language towards a group of people they think should live under them as opposed to enjoying the freedoms they currently have.

Live and let live, because I cannot think of one single solitary reason why it would be better for K Serbs to live under Pristina's authority than it would for them to retain their own political structures with Belgrade. Especially when one considers the north.

Yeah, and the pigs might fly!
Only brute force can make the Serbs from North Kosovo accept Pristina authority and we all know that this is not an option any more. How long its gonna take for NATO to swallow its pride and admit the mistake they made, stop this stupidity called nation building and sit down at the table (Albanians included) and talk about the end, me think not long...

".....I fail to see how a group of people adamantly opposed to being integrated into a society can be persuaded. I mean, the Albanians adamantly refused to be integrated back into the rest of Serbia, so I wonder why the same logic doesn't apply." - Mike

Hi Mike
I've worked as an 'International' for the last decade in Kosovo i Metohija and it became very clear to me from the outset what the KFOR(NATO),US/UK/German and Albanian policy for Kosovo was and still is.

The 'Kosova' Albanians don't want the remaining Serbs in KiM to integrate with them.
They want them out, completely.
And they won't be satisfied with just that.

It might sound crazy to us 'Internationals' but many Albanians have designs on the city of Nis as well.Many of them have told me so. You see, 'albanisation' knows no frontiers.

It's not very different from the attempted perfidious 'albionisation' of my country.

MB,Ireland

Mirub, you cannot even decide who I am. In one sentence you tell me that Serbs like Albanians more than I do, the next sentence you say that I am a Serb. Make up your mind.

Your work for EULEX too? Great. I am sorry to hear we have someone who blindly follows orders with no thought as to the consequences. Isn't that what the guards did in the concentration camps?

You want to meet? Fine. As I said before to some other employee - once I am done here I will meet because anyone like you as I want to see what manner of international has such a undying love for Albanians and hatred for Serbs. Until I am done here, I must avoid meeting you because EULEX does not seem to like people thinking for themselves.

As for me and my opinions on this matter in the north, I used my brain rather than buying the official government line. I worked with UNMIK up north for a long time and learned that Serbs just want to be left alone and be governed by Belgrade. EULEX has convinced me that they do not have the best interests of Serbs in mind, hardening my own beliefs. Since I support democracy, I believe that the people should decide who rules them. Apparently you are in favor of forcing 95% of a population to do something against its will. Very democratic of you.

And yes Jason, I wonder too what the big deal is with a few people here who seem hell bent on controlling other peoples lives like little Eichmanns. It has to be ego. Ego and the need to think they're being taken seriously, because other than that, I fail to see the logic from these posters who spew all sorts of aggressive language towards a group of people they think should live under them as opposed to enjoying the freedoms they currently have.

Live and let live, because I cannot think of one single solitary reason why it would be better for K Serbs to live under Pristina's authority than it would for them to retain their own political structures with Belgrade. Especially when one considers the north.
(Mike, 1 February 2010 23:45)

Well stated, Mike. Yes, our dear Albanian nationalist friends here will have their own self-determination come back to bite them very soon. They demand it yet deny it to others. This is beyond hypocrisy and it is on display for the world to see...

Another Canadian Serb,

I would kill for some Tim Horton's right now, believe me. Do they still make the chili in the bread bowl? Damn that was good too:)

"Thanks prof, but don't blame me for the reality that is getting to you too, that's just the way things are. Serbs in the North will be very happy to join Pristina, after all that's their capital. I'm sorry that there is nothing that you can do about it." (miri)

-- Haha, and you talk about "reality" after what you just wrote. Is it always this sunny in your world? Silly miri :)

So because you fought for your freedom KOSOVARi, it's a matter of principle that oyu have to make life for the Serbs a living hell wherever they are in Kosovo.

Come on all you Albanians are contradicting yourselves. Every argument you used to get 'independence' you are now turning on its head just because you want whats worst for the Serbs. Who are you to demand territorial integrity for anyone? And guess what, the boundaries of Kosovo were drawn up by the Serbs, not the Albanians. So the territorial integrity of a state that doesn't exist means absolutely nothing.

Mirub,

You want to talk about underdogs? What about the US and its Western European allies ganging up on 40-something thousand Serbs in the north who don't want anything to do with "Kosova."

Those sound like underdogs to me. Why not re-examine your own principles and think for yourself for once rather than buy the propaganda we are force-fed by EULEX?

Simple math and a little bit of democracy. In this case we are not talking about Kosovo at large here but rather the northern municipalities that are overwhelmingly Serbian (and always have been so.) It seems arrogant that Brussels and Washington should dictate to 95% of a people how they should live.