NGO to release victim census for Kosovo

Ataman, (and others)

While its true that many albanians do not support PDK (formed by mainly ex-KLA from Drenica) or AAK (formed by ex-KLA Dukagjini region) in a political sense, the majority of albanians regard other albanians working for the Serbian regime during 90s, as collaborators and traitors.

This was very 'interesting' choice of words by B92 - 'albanians...loyal citizens of Serbia'. (btw I hope my comment gets published this time).

There many albanians who were loyal to Yugoslavia before Milos came to power, and they were not regarded as collaborators.

The Milosevic regime was an oppresive one, whose aim was to exterminate albanian population or expell them out of Kosovo region - therefore any albanian that supported this policy cannot be called anything else but a collaborator. I do not think 'loyal' is a correct term to describe someone that supports and aids the killing, rape, expulsion, burning of their own people.

Now, whether all albanians killed by KLA were collaborators or not, thats a different matter.

What a piece of news. Completely ignoring the Albanian casulties during the war. No it is not HLC but Tanjug who is doing this.

The fate of 1,886 people is still unknown, according to the government’s Missing Persons Commission, including 537 Serbs and other non-Albanians, as well as a small number of Kosovo Albanians who were killed because they were loyal citizens of Serbia.

The word "loyal" should be instead collaborators with the enemy, for money not for loyalty and/or love.

Ataman, 6 October 2009 13:32)

Your comment proves that you have 0% knowledge on Kosovo.

The word "loyal" should be instead collaborators with the enemy, for money not for loyalty and/or love.
(Kosova-USA, 6 October 2009 10:28)

Oh... So - Hungarian members of Slovakian police are according You "collabolators"?? Or mayby Albanian members of serbian police in Bujanovac and their families are too "collaborators"??

Albanians killed in Kosovo by UCK - were members of albanian minority in Serbia loyal to their country, country where they lived. It's normal - in every countries in Europe live minorities. They are loyal to the countries where they lived. And these minorities participate in states addministration or police force.

The word "loyal" should be instead collaborators with the enemy, for money not for loyalty and/or love.
(Kosova-USA, 6 October 2009 10:28)

Nonsense.

1) To my - true still limited - experience a very large percentage of the population has zero affinity to Drenica clan.

2) A very large percentage of the population just fails to regard Serbs as "enemy". It is up to you how you see them and it's your loss ultimately.

If it's as you say "money" than Serbia is the richest country in the word, able to "bribe" so many people.

The biggest enemy is of course the enemy picture we create for whatever reason. Once we create, the entire world is being seen differently.

Wow, this would be pretty funny if we weren't talking about human lives. The article completely ignores the Albanian missing killed/abducted by Serbs, which are vastly more numerous, to imply somehow that this war was just Albanians killing Serbs and non-Albanians. Show all the numbers and the truth will be evident.

Johnny if Milosevic did not wish the extermination of Albanians from Kosovo then I would be puzzled as to why he tried so desperately to cover his tracks, burying Albanians in mass graves in Belgrade. Read up on the Bytyqi brothers case and see how Milosevic attempted to cleanse such evidence.
An entire people don't just decide to get up and leave. Or have you not even seen video footage of Albanians in Prishtina being forced onto trains headed for the Macedonia border? And was there a need for Serbian police and military to destroy their documents, rape women and girls, and boys, and summarily execute entire villages?

2) A very large percentage of the population just fails to regard Serbs as "enemy". (Ataman, 6 October 2009 13:32)

If you think that about 8% of 2mil population is a large %, than I agree with you. How can you have total disregard for over 90% of popuplation?

Slobo was not at war with the Albanian's but the KLA.
what is filled with facts is that the Albanian population in greater numbers has shown over history to want to clear Serbs from their lands.
(Johnny, 6 October 2009 19:40)

Slobo was not at war with Albanians? Yeah, and I am the Queen of England.....in fact some 10,000 plus albanians committed suicide from the love for Slobo, they even gave up their autonomy so Slobo could baby them around .....

Serbia does a great job to brainwash you.... I mean boy do you guys live in a neverland or what?

In a matter of 2 months and a half your army and police force slaughtered some 10,000 albanians, with mass graves found all the way to Belgrade, and testimonies of attrocities and murders of women and children now well known for the public.

Some 200,000 houses were destroyed or burned, many looted, property stolen, 800,000 albanians cleansed, hundreds of women raped, millions in damages .....

... and yet albanians have cleansed the serbs from Kosovo....

So Ibriham Rugova was a collaborator as Milosevic saved Rugova and his family from certain death from the UCK and KLA .

Too bad Rugova was muzzled to tell the real truth for fear of KLA vendetta on his family.

The hyprocricy is clearly evident every time Thaci places a wreath on Rugova`s gravesite.
(konstantin gregovic, 6 October 2009 19:29)

If UCK and KLA means two different things to you , than you are totaly lost and should have not writtena coment at all.
By the way, rugova was kiddnapped and was in no danger from KLA, but Serbian propaganda made it look that way. Even though i am not found of rugova, but this is the fact.

natasha kandic is doing a great job.
And only by having a clear picture of the atrocities of these dark times,we can help the beginning of a new period,otherwise we always will be in resentiment and haine.

as for the paragraph of the ministry,it is as always the officiel serbian position:always injurious for the victims they created. Nothing good to expect from them.

i have to commend kandic and her crew -- they have done a terrific job, and deserve our deepest respect.

kandic actually dared to go into kosovo/a during the worst of the "ethnic cleansing" and bombing -- she could have been killed by any # of actors there or simply by accident.

that woman has more balls, so to speak, than most of us put together.

the #'s ring true, best as we can figure, and across ethnic lines (blood is blood.) all war crimes must be prosecuted, and all killings should be investigated and the truth brought to light. that is far from happening throughout the balkans, but kandic et al push down the wall to determine the truths that way too many politicians continue to cover and obstruct.

as to the issue of "traitors" -- it is true that one guy/gal's patriots are another's traitors. people have a right to their opinions, but in that ethnic cleansing war, where the entire albanian people were up ag. the killing machine, you took yr side and paid the consequences, just like in any war. people were not blind to what was happening, and IF they actively aided and abetted the killers (as opposed to being innocent civilians) then they were legitimately targeted.

we have to move on from the HATE fest, get past the issue of missing persons which means seeking the truth instead of hiding it. i am sure there will be no progress until representatives of serbia and kosovo/a sit down together , as equals, and have the pol will to move forward. when will this happen?

kandic and co. can do tremendous things, but they can't do it all alone. they need support, not pure marginalization.

speaking of which, i have no idea where my posts are going... maybe i have the wrong address or need to learn to write in serbo-croatian.

roberto

The fate of 1,886 people is still unknown, according to the government’s Missing Persons "Commission, including 537 Serbs and other non-Albanians, as well as a small number of Kosovo Albanians who were killed because they were loyal citizens of Serbia". Ask Thaci and berisha where these bodies are, they know. These are obviously the poor souls taken into Albania where their bodily organs were extracted by the KLA, before they were killed. It's high time to give the victims' families closure. Kosovo and Albania will never move forward, both morally and economically, till these Albanian so-called leaders are put away for their horrific crimes.

RE: Kosovo Albanian Collaborators

So Ibriham Rugova was a collaborator as Milosevic saved Rugova and his family from certain death from the UCK and KLA .

Too bad Rugova was muzzled to tell the real truth for fear of KLA vendetta on his family.

The hyprocricy is clearly evident every time Thaci places a wreath on Rugova`s gravesite.

If UCK and KLA means two different things to you , than you are totaly lost and should have not writtena coment at all.
By the way, rugova was kiddnapped and was in no danger from KLA, but Serbian propaganda made it look that way. Even though i am not found of rugova, but this is the fact.
(Kosova-USA, 6 October 2009 21:49)

Perhaps he meant the rival narco-terrorist group, FARK? You know, the Armed Forces of the Kosovo Republic... the ones who were fighting against the KLA for drug territory instead of this alleged "freedom" that you nationalists like to discuss.

Don't take my word for it, read about it at the New York Times:

http://www.wsws.org/articles/1999/jun1999/kla-j29.shtml

Oh, and do not forget your promise to not reply to me anymore:)

nikshala:
Your story belongs in Hollywood.
Slobo was not at war with the Albanian's but the KLA.
what is filled with facts is that the Albanian population in greater numbers has shown over history to want to clear Serbs from their lands.

You need to look way down deep into your soul, Frisco, and view that horrendous period in the Balkans, Kosovo war, with objectivity, and not through biased ones. Civilians have the right to support the side they want, without a self-appointed cleansing group, KLA, being the judge, jury, and executioner. There lie the crimes. They had no right to do that. Can you be honest enough to admit that?

Kosova-USA,

There you have it. Officially, 13,321 were killed in the Kosovo conflict and if you break this down it means about 10,000 were killed by NATO while the rest in conflict with Serbian forces.
With allies like that I’d change sides.

perhaps i'm stupid, but the number listed something like 13000 people who were killed during the conflict. this number includes all people. this article did not specify any which way who made up the roughly 13000 people.
it did however specify a smaller set of un identified indiviuals. it did also mention a soon to be published list which didn't explicitly include albanians... not sure how this party wants it. not part of serbia, but then get angry when serbia doesn't include you. are any of you willing to travel to belgrade to see this list, or are you just going to throw fecal matter around?
as far as i've read the albanian delegation here has made it clear they don't want anything to do with belgrade. so when belgrade turns you a fair play, but not asking or including you all i hear is bloody tears dropping on the floor.
it would be interesting if pristina did the same thing, listing just the albanian portion of the 13000 or so souls. then they'd all be accounted for, but alas this level of governmental organization and effort seems to be beyond the abilities of the current regime in pristina.

furthermore this nonsense of collaborator versus loyal citzen is milfly ammusing at best. if the albanina population wanted anybody but dear old dead slobo in power, they could have mobilized their legions of millions to tilt the tables away from slobo. they chose not to. they effectively collaborated with slobo by abstaining. yet, the indiviuals who wanted to preserve the country that they were currently living in, are label as collaborators, traitors, and were punished thouroughly for it. not sure why that is, and what valid explaination, other than the wasted efforts posted so far, could account for such a lack of clarity.
may all souls of all 13000 individuals be at rest, and may all their families take solice and move towards a greener future.

Notice that the time coverage goes from January 1998 all the way through December 2000. For the last over 18 months - mid June 1999 through December 2000, you had NATO and KLA forces in charge, while Serbian security forces were out.

They are including the deaths and missing from a long while AFTER the NATO bombing.

The fact that they continued the count well into the KLA sprees and NATO supervising shoes they are inflating the totals.

Remember the propaganda claimed during the war about what was going on right then. They had reports of 100 thousands and even 500 thousand feared dead.

They need to break down to count into before NATO bombing, during NATO bombing and after NATO bombing.

Only the deaths before NATO bombing (and not those caused by KLA or collateral damage caused by KLA-started fights) can be used for the NATO bombing argument.

And ONLY the deaths which occurred while NATO bombing should be compared to the war propaganda statements made while NATO bombed.

And all those after NATO bombed should be the responsibility of NATO and the KLA.

Additionally, the Kosovo Roma often had Albanian names. Their deaths were most often at the hands of the KLA, and they have lists of their dead who were put on the lists of Albanian dead.

It doesn't sound like this project is precisely and fully dividing out the ethnic Roma in the lists.

What a piece of news. Completely ignoring the Albanian casulties during the war. No it is not HLC but Tanjug who is doing this.

The fate of 1,886 people is still unknown, according to the government’s Missing Persons Commission, including 537 Serbs and other non-Albanians, as well as a small number of Kosovo Albanians who were killed because they were loyal citizens of Serbia.

The word "loyal" should be instead collaborators with the enemy, for money not for loyalty and/or love.

Wow, this would be pretty funny if we weren't talking about human lives. The article completely ignores the Albanian missing killed/abducted by Serbs, which are vastly more numerous, to imply somehow that this war was just Albanians killing Serbs and non-Albanians. Show all the numbers and the truth will be evident.

The word "loyal" should be instead collaborators with the enemy, for money not for loyalty and/or love.
(Kosova-USA, 6 October 2009 10:28)

Oh... So - Hungarian members of Slovakian police are according You "collabolators"?? Or mayby Albanian members of serbian police in Bujanovac and their families are too "collaborators"??

Albanians killed in Kosovo by UCK - were members of albanian minority in Serbia loyal to their country, country where they lived. It's normal - in every countries in Europe live minorities. They are loyal to the countries where they lived. And these minorities participate in states addministration or police force.

Ataman, 6 October 2009 13:32)

Your comment proves that you have 0% knowledge on Kosovo.

natasha kandic is doing a great job.
And only by having a clear picture of the atrocities of these dark times,we can help the beginning of a new period,otherwise we always will be in resentiment and haine.

as for the paragraph of the ministry,it is as always the officiel serbian position:always injurious for the victims they created. Nothing good to expect from them.

nikshala:
Your story belongs in Hollywood.
Slobo was not at war with the Albanian's but the KLA.
what is filled with facts is that the Albanian population in greater numbers has shown over history to want to clear Serbs from their lands.

RE: Kosovo Albanian Collaborators

So Ibriham Rugova was a collaborator as Milosevic saved Rugova and his family from certain death from the UCK and KLA .

Too bad Rugova was muzzled to tell the real truth for fear of KLA vendetta on his family.

The hyprocricy is clearly evident every time Thaci places a wreath on Rugova`s gravesite.

The word "loyal" should be instead collaborators with the enemy, for money not for loyalty and/or love.
(Kosova-USA, 6 October 2009 10:28)

Nonsense.

1) To my - true still limited - experience a very large percentage of the population has zero affinity to Drenica clan.

2) A very large percentage of the population just fails to regard Serbs as "enemy". It is up to you how you see them and it's your loss ultimately.

If it's as you say "money" than Serbia is the richest country in the word, able to "bribe" so many people.

The biggest enemy is of course the enemy picture we create for whatever reason. Once we create, the entire world is being seen differently.

The fate of 1,886 people is still unknown, according to the government’s Missing Persons "Commission, including 537 Serbs and other non-Albanians, as well as a small number of Kosovo Albanians who were killed because they were loyal citizens of Serbia". Ask Thaci and berisha where these bodies are, they know. These are obviously the poor souls taken into Albania where their bodily organs were extracted by the KLA, before they were killed. It's high time to give the victims' families closure. Kosovo and Albania will never move forward, both morally and economically, till these Albanian so-called leaders are put away for their horrific crimes.

2) A very large percentage of the population just fails to regard Serbs as "enemy". (Ataman, 6 October 2009 13:32)

If you think that about 8% of 2mil population is a large %, than I agree with you. How can you have total disregard for over 90% of popuplation?

Ataman, (and others)

While its true that many albanians do not support PDK (formed by mainly ex-KLA from Drenica) or AAK (formed by ex-KLA Dukagjini region) in a political sense, the majority of albanians regard other albanians working for the Serbian regime during 90s, as collaborators and traitors.

This was very 'interesting' choice of words by B92 - 'albanians...loyal citizens of Serbia'. (btw I hope my comment gets published this time).

There many albanians who were loyal to Yugoslavia before Milos came to power, and they were not regarded as collaborators.

The Milosevic regime was an oppresive one, whose aim was to exterminate albanian population or expell them out of Kosovo region - therefore any albanian that supported this policy cannot be called anything else but a collaborator. I do not think 'loyal' is a correct term to describe someone that supports and aids the killing, rape, expulsion, burning of their own people.

Now, whether all albanians killed by KLA were collaborators or not, thats a different matter.

Slobo was not at war with the Albanian's but the KLA.
what is filled with facts is that the Albanian population in greater numbers has shown over history to want to clear Serbs from their lands.
(Johnny, 6 October 2009 19:40)

Slobo was not at war with Albanians? Yeah, and I am the Queen of England.....in fact some 10,000 plus albanians committed suicide from the love for Slobo, they even gave up their autonomy so Slobo could baby them around .....

Serbia does a great job to brainwash you.... I mean boy do you guys live in a neverland or what?

In a matter of 2 months and a half your army and police force slaughtered some 10,000 albanians, with mass graves found all the way to Belgrade, and testimonies of attrocities and murders of women and children now well known for the public.

Some 200,000 houses were destroyed or burned, many looted, property stolen, 800,000 albanians cleansed, hundreds of women raped, millions in damages .....

... and yet albanians have cleansed the serbs from Kosovo....

i have to commend kandic and her crew -- they have done a terrific job, and deserve our deepest respect.

kandic actually dared to go into kosovo/a during the worst of the "ethnic cleansing" and bombing -- she could have been killed by any # of actors there or simply by accident.

that woman has more balls, so to speak, than most of us put together.

the #'s ring true, best as we can figure, and across ethnic lines (blood is blood.) all war crimes must be prosecuted, and all killings should be investigated and the truth brought to light. that is far from happening throughout the balkans, but kandic et al push down the wall to determine the truths that way too many politicians continue to cover and obstruct.

as to the issue of "traitors" -- it is true that one guy/gal's patriots are another's traitors. people have a right to their opinions, but in that ethnic cleansing war, where the entire albanian people were up ag. the killing machine, you took yr side and paid the consequences, just like in any war. people were not blind to what was happening, and IF they actively aided and abetted the killers (as opposed to being innocent civilians) then they were legitimately targeted.

we have to move on from the HATE fest, get past the issue of missing persons which means seeking the truth instead of hiding it. i am sure there will be no progress until representatives of serbia and kosovo/a sit down together , as equals, and have the pol will to move forward. when will this happen?

kandic and co. can do tremendous things, but they can't do it all alone. they need support, not pure marginalization.

speaking of which, i have no idea where my posts are going... maybe i have the wrong address or need to learn to write in serbo-croatian.

roberto

So Ibriham Rugova was a collaborator as Milosevic saved Rugova and his family from certain death from the UCK and KLA .

Too bad Rugova was muzzled to tell the real truth for fear of KLA vendetta on his family.

The hyprocricy is clearly evident every time Thaci places a wreath on Rugova`s gravesite.
(konstantin gregovic, 6 October 2009 19:29)

If UCK and KLA means two different things to you , than you are totaly lost and should have not writtena coment at all.
By the way, rugova was kiddnapped and was in no danger from KLA, but Serbian propaganda made it look that way. Even though i am not found of rugova, but this is the fact.

perhaps i'm stupid, but the number listed something like 13000 people who were killed during the conflict. this number includes all people. this article did not specify any which way who made up the roughly 13000 people.
it did however specify a smaller set of un identified indiviuals. it did also mention a soon to be published list which didn't explicitly include albanians... not sure how this party wants it. not part of serbia, but then get angry when serbia doesn't include you. are any of you willing to travel to belgrade to see this list, or are you just going to throw fecal matter around?
as far as i've read the albanian delegation here has made it clear they don't want anything to do with belgrade. so when belgrade turns you a fair play, but not asking or including you all i hear is bloody tears dropping on the floor.
it would be interesting if pristina did the same thing, listing just the albanian portion of the 13000 or so souls. then they'd all be accounted for, but alas this level of governmental organization and effort seems to be beyond the abilities of the current regime in pristina.

furthermore this nonsense of collaborator versus loyal citzen is milfly ammusing at best. if the albanina population wanted anybody but dear old dead slobo in power, they could have mobilized their legions of millions to tilt the tables away from slobo. they chose not to. they effectively collaborated with slobo by abstaining. yet, the indiviuals who wanted to preserve the country that they were currently living in, are label as collaborators, traitors, and were punished thouroughly for it. not sure why that is, and what valid explaination, other than the wasted efforts posted so far, could account for such a lack of clarity.
may all souls of all 13000 individuals be at rest, and may all their families take solice and move towards a greener future.

Johnny if Milosevic did not wish the extermination of Albanians from Kosovo then I would be puzzled as to why he tried so desperately to cover his tracks, burying Albanians in mass graves in Belgrade. Read up on the Bytyqi brothers case and see how Milosevic attempted to cleanse such evidence.
An entire people don't just decide to get up and leave. Or have you not even seen video footage of Albanians in Prishtina being forced onto trains headed for the Macedonia border? And was there a need for Serbian police and military to destroy their documents, rape women and girls, and boys, and summarily execute entire villages?

Kosova-USA,

There you have it. Officially, 13,321 were killed in the Kosovo conflict and if you break this down it means about 10,000 were killed by NATO while the rest in conflict with Serbian forces.
With allies like that I’d change sides.

You need to look way down deep into your soul, Frisco, and view that horrendous period in the Balkans, Kosovo war, with objectivity, and not through biased ones. Civilians have the right to support the side they want, without a self-appointed cleansing group, KLA, being the judge, jury, and executioner. There lie the crimes. They had no right to do that. Can you be honest enough to admit that?

If UCK and KLA means two different things to you , than you are totaly lost and should have not writtena coment at all.
By the way, rugova was kiddnapped and was in no danger from KLA, but Serbian propaganda made it look that way. Even though i am not found of rugova, but this is the fact.
(Kosova-USA, 6 October 2009 21:49)

Perhaps he meant the rival narco-terrorist group, FARK? You know, the Armed Forces of the Kosovo Republic... the ones who were fighting against the KLA for drug territory instead of this alleged "freedom" that you nationalists like to discuss.

Don't take my word for it, read about it at the New York Times:

http://www.wsws.org/articles/1999/jun1999/kla-j29.shtml

Oh, and do not forget your promise to not reply to me anymore:)

Notice that the time coverage goes from January 1998 all the way through December 2000. For the last over 18 months - mid June 1999 through December 2000, you had NATO and KLA forces in charge, while Serbian security forces were out.

They are including the deaths and missing from a long while AFTER the NATO bombing.

The fact that they continued the count well into the KLA sprees and NATO supervising shoes they are inflating the totals.

Remember the propaganda claimed during the war about what was going on right then. They had reports of 100 thousands and even 500 thousand feared dead.

They need to break down to count into before NATO bombing, during NATO bombing and after NATO bombing.

Only the deaths before NATO bombing (and not those caused by KLA or collateral damage caused by KLA-started fights) can be used for the NATO bombing argument.

And ONLY the deaths which occurred while NATO bombing should be compared to the war propaganda statements made while NATO bombed.

And all those after NATO bombed should be the responsibility of NATO and the KLA.

Additionally, the Kosovo Roma often had Albanian names. Their deaths were most often at the hands of the KLA, and they have lists of their dead who were put on the lists of Albanian dead.

It doesn't sound like this project is precisely and fully dividing out the ethnic Roma in the lists.