We can compare this Kosovo situation to a game, and we are at halftime. There will be a second half, whether in 10 or 20 years time, the Serbs will get vengeance and no mercy will be handed out to terrorists who have usurped and temporarily occupied Serbian territory.
According to the UN:
"The recognition of a new State or Government is an act that only States and Governments may grant or withhold. It generally implies readiness to assume diplomatic relations. The United Nations is neither a State nor a Government, and therefore does not posses any authority to recognize either a State or a Government. "(http://www.un.org/geninfo/faq/briefingpapers/briefing2a.htm)--
Therefore, not being a member of the UN does not mean not being independent.
“Until res 1244 is revoked (only with Serbian signature) you are still legally part of Serbia and have no chance of getting any serious investment there.”
Resolution 1244 DOES NOT need Serbia’s signature to be revoked. Only UNSC has authority to replace it with a new resolution. Since Serbia is not a member of UNSC it has no authority over its resolutions.
“The United Nations is neither a State nor a Government, and therefore does not posses any authority to recognize either a State or a Government.”--- If enough countries do recognize Kosova as independent, Kosova can function without any problem even if the UN does not accept it as a member. UN membership is not a necessity, rather it is more a convenience.
doodah:
The probability that the chinese have abstained on 'Kosovo issues' because they are quite happy to let the russians do the 'heavy-lifting' on these matters seems to have escaped you.
And as for the thawing in relations between the US & Russia, am all for it - last thing we all need is a new cold war (or another 'dubya'). But extrapolating this to a softening of Russia's stance on 'Kosovo issues' is nothing but a K-albanian daydream.
You may have briefly (conveniently?) forgotten Russia's humiliation over Kosovo during the 'Yeltsin years', but Putin hasn't.
pss:
> peter, sydney, true but not many children less than the age of 2 posess the knowledge and strength of adults either.
> If at this point a country could achieve those results I guess they would be the new superposer by age 5.
Am sure that most if not all 'children' would also make the same claims - as all 'kids' like to 'pose' as adults.
But best to not let this get out-of-hand else they could indeed become 'superposers' ;)
Let me translate this for our Alb friends, if any 1 of the 5 permanent members rejects the submission it will never get to Step 3. Serbia has the backing of 2 permanent members, motherland Russia and China.
Kosovo part of UN = Never.
Sorry...
(AdamSRB, 2 October 2009 01:15)
Lets further analyse that: China has supported further negotiations, but I do not think you will find where they have ever threatened to veto anything concerning Kosovo. Of course the Serbians have thrown the phrase around enough that they believe it is gospel. When it comes down to a vote many countries compromise their opinion. Would China do that?- China tends to hold their cards close to the body so no one knows for sure.
The sudden burst of rhetoric from Russia started in late 2006 and caught the world by surprise. Remember, everyone thought the Ahtisaari package was a sure thing. Russia was seeking 2 things, their need to secure the energy deals with Serbia (done), and to reestablish themselves in the international setting. They felt they were not getting repect from the west (esp US). Those things are changing also.
As a result you see a softening of Russia in the stance on Iran.
peter, sydney, true but not many children less than the age of 2 posess the knowledge and strength of adults either.
If at this point a country could achieve those results I guess they would be the new superposer by age 5.
Thanks Peter, that link was insightful especially Step 2:
"The application is considered first by the Security Council. Any recommendation for admission must receive the affirmative votes of nine of the 15 members of the Council, provided that none of its five permanent members - China, France, the Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America - have voted against the application. "
Let me translate this for our Alb friends, if any 1 of the 5 permanent members rejects the submission it will never get to Step 3. Serbia has the backing of 2 permanent members, motherland Russia and China.
Kosovo part of UN = Never.
UNSR: 1244 says that Kosovo is a Yugoslav province, not Serbian. Also the State Union of Serbia and Montenegro is the successor state to Yugoslavia and that itself no longer exists itself. It is something to bare in mind. The whole political scene has changed, it can be argued that UNSR 1244 is dated.
(Dewi, Wales, 1 October 2009 13:08)
It says that Kosovo is part of Yugoslavia. Yes. But it is part of Serbia which is part of Yugoslavia.
If I say that LA is part of the USA. And the USA falls apart, does that mean that LA is no longer part of Callifornia?
Get real! Hate so say but sorry these pro-independence interpretations of Kosovo are very very childish! And unfactual!
Curious how 'team-kosova' have translated Jeremic's '30 countries under pressure to recognize Kosovo' into a new(?) imminent wave of recognitions.
To those of you who believe in this, will simply point out that every other report of an imminent wave (& there have been many) has turned out to be nothing but a ripple.. if that.
Dewi, Wales:
> UNSR: 1244 says that Kosovo is a Yugoslav province, not Serbian. Also the State Union of Serbia and Montenegro is the successor state to Yugoslavia and that itself no longer exists itself. It is something to bare in mind.
Nope - it isn't.
"In the event that Montenegro leaves the union of states, the international documents relating to the FRY, especially UN Security Council Resolution 1244, would relate in their entirety to Serbia as successor." http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/1874523.stm
> The whole political scene has changed, it can be argued that UNSR 1244 is dated.
Not in front of the ICJ.
pss:
Unfortunately, Kosovo has neither the tiger economy of Taiwan nor the history & wealth of Switzerland.
Frank:
> Vuk stop wasting taxpayers money with your none sense trips because Kosovo either way is getting UN seat.
Sorry 'Frank', but the only way 'Kosovo' will get a UN seat is if Sejdiu sneaks out of that 'special room' & nicks one.
Kosova-USA:
> Some poster made a coment that no matter how many countries recognize Kosova, all it takes one Veto.
> I will tell that poster how things work at UN.
> Yes, the matter goes first to UNSC and if there is a veto, any permanent member of UNSC has the right to file a motion to take the matter with UN General Assembly for a vote. You get 2/3 of UNGA and you become a UN Member.There is nothing to it.
Hilarious.. you've really made my day :)
Here's how it actually works..
1: Must first submit application to UN General Secretary.
2: Application then goes to UN Security Council for acceptance. Needs 9 out of 15 votes & veto's apply.
3: If and only if application is accepted by UN SC, then goes before General Assembly where it needs a 2/3 majority for success.
UNSR: 1244 says that Kosovo is a Yugoslav province, not Serbian. Also the State Union of Serbia and Montenegro is the successor state to Yugoslavia and that itself no longer exists itself. It is something to bare in mind. The whole political scene has changed, it can be argued that UNSR 1244 is dated.
'I have stated before that I have quite good insight what is happening with Kosovo due to my profession'.
Staff, guys like you I like the most. Due to my profession you don't have a clue!!! The only thing that matters is, what and who you believe to be sincere in telling the historical reality. For all your points I can bring the opposite reactions, which are all said a hundred times too. Only don't tell this forum that other politicians (or even world-leaders!!, which are your daily companions??!!) envy Jeremic. If you would speak out of your 'profession', you should admit that this is added to your story, because you either like him or just tried to give the rest of your arguments a little bit more weight:)!
No one mentioned!
heheh and Vuk think that since they didnt mention they dont know about it.
Vuk stop wasting taxpayers money with your none sense trips because Kosovo either way is getting UN seat.
But yes you are right, Pristina gov should focus on proseprity of Kosovo and should not care about Serbia's or Russia's recognition.
If Kosovo is strong economically Serbia will never have a chance to rule it again. A wealthy nation can build a strong and modern army to protect itself. That's what Kosovo should do.
Until res 1244 is revoked (only with Serbian signature) you are still legally part of Serbia and have no chance of getting any serious investment there. The only chance you have is to keep collecting welfare from US and UK.
The only business investment you are going to have is Camp Bondsteel.
Business is business and nobody wants to risk their money on somthing which is not stable. Kosovo is not stable and won't be until the Albanians get it through their heads that they have to eventually negotiate something with Serbia.
Hey Mike, I don't even know what are you saying. International protectorate! What is this? and how long can this last? Wasn't Kosova for 8 years an international protectorate and it was considered unsustainable, hence the need for a final status, Ahtisaari, Troika and so much diplomatic energy spent? I am really confused with your way of thinking. So what are you asking negotiations for then? I always thought that probably partition was in your mind. Frankly if ever there were to be new negotiations would only be on how to partition Serbia and Kosova even more (respectively Presevo and N. Mitrovica). But negotiating just to keep things the same as you suggest? Oh dear!
Second question that I have for you is: Why can't Serbs be a minority in Kosova? Why is this so terrible. Albanians have been a minority for 100 years in Serbia. Albanians are minorities in many other countries too. Macedonia, Monte Negro, Serbia (in presevo valley). Are Serbs some sort of heavenly race that can never be a minority? Why can't Serbs accept for once that this sort of mentality have brought them and the others too much misery already. Why can't you give K-Albanians a chance. And if you really can't stand living a 100 yard close to an Albanian house why don't you be frank and ask for partition then? Let's just split everything and part in our own ways.
I already answered this question. Because Serbs are very revengeful and this is what Serbia is doing now, taking revenge. Enjoy while it lasts.
There should be no pressure on any country to recognise Kosovo! Why do rogue states with no respect for the law or the pending resolution of the ICJ still put pressure on weaker states for recognitions? It's objectionable!
UN nor EU membership is what makes a country a success.
Zimbabwe, Haiti, Liberia, Afghanistan all are UN countries, Taiwan is not.
Romania, Bulgaria are part of the EU, Switzerland is not.
So Kosovo's success is not dependent on either of the 2.
There would have to be more reason than someone blocking memebership to cause independence to change course.
I do not understand what is all this fuss with these recognitions.Kosovo was stolen with a use of extreme violence and will be taken back by force as well earlier or later.Mankind cannot afford pseudostates run by narcoterorists in the long run.
"It's just so naive to expect K-Albanians to accept "autonomy" under Serbia at this point."
-- To be perfectly honest miri, I really don't think even that's the objective anymore, and I have never said that Kosovo should be an autonomous part of Serbia in the formal sense. I really can't see Kosovo either being compltely reabsorbed back into Serbia, nor can I see it functioning as a sovereign state. I completely agree with you when you say that K-Albanians will not accept Belgrade's rule. But I have to counter in saying that K-Serbs will not accept Pristina's rule. So we have a stalemate in which no one wins unless the goals for negotiation on both sides change. In the end, what I seem to have predicted for a while here (international protectorate) may very well be the result. Albanians can rest assured Belgrade's authority does not extend to their municipalities, and Serbs can rest assured that another state was not carved out of their territory. Kosovo may very well have to accept a diminished status of sovereignty for the sake of long term progress.
I think you lost the plot when talking to Zoran "I really hope Spain and the others will keep Kosovo out of EU forever!"
I can see your DESPERATION to "keep Kosovo out of Europe" but do you really think that "the Albanians in Kosova will change their mind and beg Serbia to accept them back so they can get Spanish consent to join EU"?)))) You must me mad...)
Its quite tragic-comical to read at this forum. Everybody seems to be prophets and to have a glass bowl to look into. I have stated before that I have quite good insight what is happening with Kosovo due to my profession. 1. Even if some people want it so much, Kosovo is not a country, no matter what. As you may know, countries are granted by UN and nobody else. You can WISH or pretend that its a country, but facts remain. 2. The ICJ decision is VERY important, even if its just recommended and not binding. Again, some say they dont care but let me give you an advice not to be totally surprised. Its the highest court in the world and many countries will follow decisions made there. This is because there must be a supreme law to follow, otherwise anyone can do as they please. 3. The decision by the ICJ will be of huge interrest. This because they will have a VERY hard time to step aside the Helsinki final act from the 70-ties that is signed and UN resolution 1244 that according to all countries in the world (UN) is still valid. (If it was not valid anymore, Eulex could not be in Kosovo - but thats another story.) 4. Aprox. 29% of the world countries have recognized Kosovo as a state and if one count world population, its only about 5-6%. 5. Mr Vuc Jeremic is doing a huge effort to preserve Kosovo. No matter what you think about him, I can tell you that I have personally heard many, many world leaders and foreign ministers that envy him for his skills and especially for his guts and stamina. 6. Many (not all but many)countries that have recognized Kosovo today think that it was a little bit hasty decision. Some say that "we will see what happens after ICJ".
It is utterly unfair talking about pressure. One can say well it is pressure from the other side as well which is the Russian role in say Syria or Iran that are not recognising Kosova?? I guess Russia has something to say here and perhaps more than juts a legitimate right of expression of her opinion.
One must be very naive thinking that every country in the world knows about Kosova and her problem. Thus, the efforts are exactly in that direction, to make them aware of the importance for a durable stability in south- east that the recognition of independent Kosova brings.
Counties that know very well what Kosova suffered and how important is the independence of Kosova for true and right solution of the last Yugoslavian question for a durable peace in the region 95% of them recognised Kosova in a week time form the declaration of independence.
So what now has left is to inform other leaderships of the world to whom Kosova is not the first thing that comes to their mind when they wake up in the morning about the importance of Kosova's independence. That's all; inform the world about the just cause of recognising Kosova's independence. And this is what is going on right now. It’s a long and hard process but it’s a process that continuous hopefully very soon will end successfully.
In the end, recognitions, as I've said countless times, mean absolutely nothing anymore. Whether Kosovo gets 0, 5, or all 30 recognitions, it will not change the internal divisions in the protectorate, will not bring Thaci's authority across the Ibar or into Gracanica, will not get Kosovo into the UN or the EU, and will not make Kosovo any less dependent on the United States and a few other protectoring states. And once the ICJ comes out and gives the ambiguous statement of sovereignty that everyone knows it's going to say, the there need be no more pressure to recognize an entity that will never become a state.
(Mike, 30 September 2009 16:58)
Likewise, no matter how hard Jeremic and his proxies and his brothers around the world work, Belgrade will never see its authority in any form or flavor south of Ibar river. Your dream of further "negotiations" will remain just like that a dream. If you think that only Kosova will suffer from this "frozen" conflict that you so joyfully predict than this is simply a shortsighted view of situation. Serbia won't make a step forward, it will be grounded for as long as stubbornly objects the recognition. It's just so naive to expect K-Albanians to accept "autonomy" under Serbia at this point. K-Albanians were geared up for a republic within Yugoslavia before Rugova and now that they achieved independence you expect someone to force them to bite the bullet and show regret for what they achieved? The only thing that Serbia is doing is taking revenge, nothing else. Sooner or later it will be clear that there would be no more point into doing this and the deadlock will be released.
How will Kosovos position change if 20 more countries recognize this failed state? Well it won't! Today Kosovo has some powerful countries behing it and still Kosovo is a complete mess. Even if you get a UN seat the province is still devided due to Serbian objection and it will remain so until a compromise has been worked out. Even a UN seat has no bearing to the reality on the ground. Reality on the ground will eventually create a new solution, whether you like it or not.
Important: Slovakia, Greece, Romania, Spain, Cyprus
Crucial: Russia, China
Impossible: Serbia
Anything else is just a side show and changes nothing. The temporary institutions in Pristina should focus on peace and prosperity in the province instead of being smuggled into the UN for some free tea, coffee and cup cakes.
(Zoran, 30 September 2009 18:15)
If Kosovo will be blocked for a while from enjoying the benefits of a UN member, the solution is Albania. In sports, and every other intl events K-Alb will participate (as they do now) through Albania, which will bring the 2 nations even closer, while Belgrade cries me a river in the north. Serbia is pushing K-Alb to rely more and more upon Albania which makes for an informal union in every aspect, much harder to break.
But yes you are right, Pristina gov should focus on proseprity of Kosovo and should not care about Serbia's or Russia's recognition.
If Kosovo is strong economically Serbia will never have a chance to rule it again. A wealthy nation can build a strong and modern army to protect itself. That's what Kosovo should do.
But it is exactly this which Serbia does not want to happen. Serbia will do everything it can, to undermine the progress and destabilize Kosovo.
That's why Albanians should isolate themselves from Serbia in any way shape or form.
I really hope Spain and the others will keep Kosovo out of EU forever!
This Kosovo! If there is a mutual agreed deal I will travel to Brussels to say Kosovo welcome! Anyone for French (actually: Belgium) Fries? I will pay!
Aside from not putting Cyprus in the "Crucial", or "Critical" category, you are absolutely right. But Pristina is not interested in deepening democratic institutions in Kosovo, only deepening their pockets with international aid. It's beyond the scope of someone like Thaci, Sejdiu, or Hyseni to even think of the idea that "sovereignty" will ultimately end in a cul de sac for them. They need to continue playing the recognition game to facilitate some illusion of progress. Yet that crucial Saudi recognition that many here said was the harbinger of a wave of new recognitions did not produce anything. Since then, three more Serb municipalities were created, Belgrade is deepening its cooperation with EULEX, countries that allegedly "support" Kosovo's statehood are not demanding Serbia's recognition for EU entry, and the United States, the one country that could actually do something, is just not interested in anything as long as Bondsteel and a complacent government in Pristina exists. It is a battle they have no chance of winning diplomatically, strategically, or legally.
Vukenstein at his finest ladies and gentlemen, manipulating public opinion and setting himself up for a victory when only 5 to 10 countries recognize Kosovo.
Doesn't Serbia have other problems to deal with?
Kosovo doesn't need 30 recognitions but only 8. There are five important recognitions, two crucial and one impossible.
They are as follows:
Important: Slovakia, Greece, Romania, Spain, Cyprus
Crucial: Russia, China
Impossible: Serbia
Anything else is just a side show and changes nothing. The temporary institutions in Pristina should focus on peace and prosperity in the province instead of being smuggled into the UN for some free tea, coffee and cup cakes.
You got the number wrong Jeremic.There are 130 countries under strong pressure to recognize Kosovo. You have already convinced one to never recognize Kosovo that is Serbia. The rest might swing before or after ICJ ruling. Use bigger numbers so whatever the outcome you still look good in the eyes of Serbians.Every excuse will work after that trick.
What amazes me that this strategy has worked for him over and over again amongts his constituents
(Visar, 30 September 2009 16:20)
What really amazes me is that you've never noticed this exact behaviour by anybody in any sort of position of power, from PresUSA to PresUAW to PMUK to CEO to Coach. All of these positions must proptect themselves by making statements that stack the odds in their favour regardless of the outcome. Every single tax payer, employee or entertained viewer pays part of their taxes, stipens or ticket prices to account for this. These people in power want to stay in power, regardless of the size of the pond that they're swimming in.
The US pressuring other countries to break international law. These are sad days.
(Ron, 30 September 2009 13:45)
Ron, somehow I doubt, US government is busy doing it. This is not the same US government like a year ago. They would not mind more recognitions, but spending money and time on that is just not their priority #1.
What we cannot underestimate are the different lobbies and NGO-s. They could be pretty powerful in the States and this is not necessarily bad. For instance if you have a consumer-related problem, you have powerful NGO-s which can assist your complain.
Of course, Albanians have their NGO-s, so do Serbs, Greeks, Armenians, etc. They do the job and I am sure, the e-mail boxes of Jeremic, Sedjiu, etc. are literally bombarded every day, so they feel they have to do somewhat to justify their salary.
-----------
Serbia with its allies puts pressue not to recognize and Kosova with its more poewrfull allies puts pressure to recognize. May the best man win. Its fair game.
(Kosova-USA, 30 September 2009 14:47)
Probably not much is happening on the governmental levels in Russia, USA, Germany, India, etc. for or against at this moment. The NGO-s on both side cry bloody murder and demand Jeremic or Sejdiu to jump up and down and show some action. So they jump as high as they can.
And this makes me really jealous.... because here no one jumps and there is not a single NGO which would represent our interests, except ACA maybe.
"The only pressure I saw so far is the blood pressure in some Serbian politicians brian who cannot accept that some countries only recognize reality."
Berkeley
What reality? Most countries have been pressured to recognize! They haven't done so because they really wanted.
How come 61 countries are right and 135 are not? If one country would have recognized Kosovo you would say the same thing. Listen and understand what I will say: Serbs will NEVER let you steal our territory. Remember that reality!
You think Kosovo will ever enter EU or UN?
(Ron, 30 September 2009 15:40)
I will be more than happy to answer your question.
UN Mmeber , yes, and sooner than you think
EU Member , not likely for long time , just the same for Serbia. The reason being is that EU is not ready to take any new members from western Balkans at this time, with exception of Croatia.
Some poster made a coment that no matter how many countries recognize Kosova, all it takes one Veto.
I will tell that poster how things work at UN.
Yes, the matter goes first to UNSC and if there is a veto, any permanent member of UNSC has the right to file a motion to take the matter with UN General Assembly for a vote. You get 2/3 of UNGA and you become a UN Member.There is nothing to it.
Jeremic always exaggerates so that he claim it as another Serbian victory, when only 5 recognise and not 30. He does this so he can claim he has stopped recognitions which were never going to happen. All for the media.
Amazing how commentators here think they know more, or are smarter than Serbia's FM. Some even call him little Vuk, is that because you think he's cute, or are you being condescending? The bottom line here is, Serbia must use every diplomatic tool it has to stop recognitions of an independent Albanian Kosovo - just like the US has done to pressure countries that have recognized. If an independent Albanian Kosovo was the right option, why would the US have to use pressure? And on little places like the Marshall Islands, that haven't got a clue where Kosovo is, or would I imagine give a damn. What is fair for the goose, is fair for the Vuk, I always say.
'30 recognitions'?? He is just raising expectations. Even if 11 countries recognize Kosovo(which would be a huge blow) that would be measured as a success by Serbia. LOL. It's all about politics. Every one wants to be reelected, even if they lose Kosovo (which is inevitable) they want to look like they at least tried.
Upon return from New York, Kosovo leaders had said that, maybe 4 other recognitions will come, and not 30.
This is just a number thrown by Jeremic so that when this doesnt happen it will seem like he has won this diplomatic battle. This is the strategy he has been using all along to stay in his post. No politician in the right mind would set himself up based on bets such as the one thrown by Jeremic "we will see who was more successful in 2 weeks time" without knowing the outcome. Jeremic wouldnt have set himself up if he knew that this was a possibility.
What amazes me that this strategy has worked for him over and over again amongts his constituents
it will be nice when kosovo his 96, 1/2 of the un and comes up to the recog numbers of palestine. then the stalemate will become clear for all to see. it doesn't take just 1/2 or un, but 100% of psc... it only takes 1 to say no, and veto principles stop all things dead.
I find 30 countries incredibly hard to believe. Anywhere between 3 to 5 seems more plausible. Washington and its Pristina proxy will be more than happy to accept a tiny fraction just to say that they're still in the game. And if Jeremic claims "30" but we see 3, 4, or 5, he can turn around and say "well, we couldn't prevent all, but we kept 25 - 27 not recognizing".
In the end, recognitions, as I've said countless times, mean absolutely nothing anymore. Whether Kosovo gets 0, 5, or all 30 recognitions, it will not change the internal divisions in the protectorate, will not bring Thaci's authority across the Ibar or into Gracanica, will not get Kosovo into the UN or the EU, and will not make Kosovo any less dependent on the United States and a few other protectoring states. And once the ICJ comes out and gives the ambiguous statement of sovereignty that everyone knows it's going to say, the there need be no more pressure to recognize an entity that will never become a state.
Lobbying for new recognitions of the unilateral independence declaration continue by those who have done so in the past,” Jeremić told Danas.
So Serbia is to remain on this self destructive path of butting heads with the most powerful and influential nations on the planet. Good for jet setting Serbian politicians but costly for Serbian people. This is all a front people, you think Vuk and company really believe this battle can be won? They are thinking about elections and consolidating their power in what will be another hastily announced Serbian election, which will probably happen sooner than people think. Kosovo belongs to its population and lets face it Serbs leaders from Serbia proper are foreigners in that land.
Vuk is clearly just wasting his time and Serbia's taxpayers money in a helpless and vain cause. The money he has so far spent on the number of flights to fight Kosova's independence could have easily been spent in more needy parts of Serbia. Someone told me that from January this year until now he has spent 700 hours on air travel!!
This is ridiculous to even post as news. I want to hear about Jeremic opening markets for Serbian firms in the US, not the other way around! They bombed and then invade the market! Come on now
so we need 34 more countries to get us up to 96 (1/2 of UN) and then all these discussions become irrelevant. 1/2 of UN and top economic powers recognize kosova. I am not sure what else is left to be said but I am sure Serb politicians will continue their propaganda (so that they can keep their jobs, travel abroad and make some money) -- why not?
"...because these attacks cannot be tolerated under any circumstances and there is no excuse for them. We will do everything we can as a country to make sure that they do not continue,” Jeremić said."
Just return Kovacevic to face justice in the place of crime.
Shows some deeds,enough with empty words.
No one needs your lectures!
Ooo yeah,,,there will be more recognitions for sure.
You 're just wasting your time mr. Jeremic. It would be much better for you, and your people to worry about economic crisis and other reasonable problems that people in Serbia are facing today.
Peace to all,,,
Serbia with its allies puts pressue not to recognize and Kosova with its more poewrfull allies puts pressure to recognize. May the best man win. Its fair game.
By mentioning a number there must be an anticipated number of recognitions around the corner. If suddenly 15 countries recognize Kosovo he can still "tout" success by saying HE successfully prevented 15 from doing so.
Until now I had not expected many until ICJ. Some countries recognize because they agree with the cause, some to align with the west. On the other side some refuse because of their own internal issues, some who want to align with Russia, and some out of anti-American sentiment. But to most of the world it is not such a critical issue that requires immediate decisions, which is what Serbia was banking on by the filing for a "non-binding" decision.
I do not think the decision itself will determine the course of most of these countries, but what transpires in the days following.
The only pressure I saw so far is the blood pressure in some Serbian politicians brian who cannot accept that some countries only recognize reality. The only doable reality, because there will be never a going back to the 90s. We already knew the result of this.
On the other hand, Jeremic simply prepares rethorically his own people that the recognition of the indepedent Kosovo has nothing to do with his failure, but a conspiracy of the West....as usual.
The only pressure I saw so far is the blood pressure in some Serbian politicians brian who cannot accept that some countries only recognize reality. The only doable reality, because there will be never a going back to the 90s. We already knew the result of this.
On the other hand, Jeremic simply prepares rethorically his own people that the recognition of the indepedent Kosovo has nothing to do with his failure, but a conspiracy of the West....as usual.
I think you lost the plot when talking to Zoran "I really hope Spain and the others will keep Kosovo out of EU forever!"
I can see your DESPERATION to "keep Kosovo out of Europe" but do you really think that "the Albanians in Kosova will change their mind and beg Serbia to accept them back so they can get Spanish consent to join EU"?)))) You must me mad...)
Serbia with its allies puts pressue not to recognize and Kosova with its more poewrfull allies puts pressure to recognize. May the best man win. Its fair game.
"The only pressure I saw so far is the blood pressure in some Serbian politicians brian who cannot accept that some countries only recognize reality."
Berkeley
What reality? Most countries have been pressured to recognize! They haven't done so because they really wanted.
How come 61 countries are right and 135 are not? If one country would have recognized Kosovo you would say the same thing. Listen and understand what I will say: Serbs will NEVER let you steal our territory. Remember that reality!
"...because these attacks cannot be tolerated under any circumstances and there is no excuse for them. We will do everything we can as a country to make sure that they do not continue,” Jeremić said."
Just return Kovacevic to face justice in the place of crime.
Shows some deeds,enough with empty words.
No one needs your lectures!
Ooo yeah,,,there will be more recognitions for sure.
You 're just wasting your time mr. Jeremic. It would be much better for you, and your people to worry about economic crisis and other reasonable problems that people in Serbia are facing today.
Peace to all,,,
Amazing how commentators here think they know more, or are smarter than Serbia's FM. Some even call him little Vuk, is that because you think he's cute, or are you being condescending? The bottom line here is, Serbia must use every diplomatic tool it has to stop recognitions of an independent Albanian Kosovo - just like the US has done to pressure countries that have recognized. If an independent Albanian Kosovo was the right option, why would the US have to use pressure? And on little places like the Marshall Islands, that haven't got a clue where Kosovo is, or would I imagine give a damn. What is fair for the goose, is fair for the Vuk, I always say.
Kosovo doesn't need 30 recognitions but only 8. There are five important recognitions, two crucial and one impossible.
They are as follows:
Important: Slovakia, Greece, Romania, Spain, Cyprus
Crucial: Russia, China
Impossible: Serbia
Anything else is just a side show and changes nothing. The temporary institutions in Pristina should focus on peace and prosperity in the province instead of being smuggled into the UN for some free tea, coffee and cup cakes.
This is ridiculous to even post as news. I want to hear about Jeremic opening markets for Serbian firms in the US, not the other way around! They bombed and then invade the market! Come on now
You think Kosovo will ever enter EU or UN?
(Ron, 30 September 2009 15:40)
I will be more than happy to answer your question.
UN Mmeber , yes, and sooner than you think
EU Member , not likely for long time , just the same for Serbia. The reason being is that EU is not ready to take any new members from western Balkans at this time, with exception of Croatia.
Some poster made a coment that no matter how many countries recognize Kosova, all it takes one Veto.
I will tell that poster how things work at UN.
Yes, the matter goes first to UNSC and if there is a veto, any permanent member of UNSC has the right to file a motion to take the matter with UN General Assembly for a vote. You get 2/3 of UNGA and you become a UN Member.There is nothing to it.
Its quite tragic-comical to read at this forum. Everybody seems to be prophets and to have a glass bowl to look into. I have stated before that I have quite good insight what is happening with Kosovo due to my profession. 1. Even if some people want it so much, Kosovo is not a country, no matter what. As you may know, countries are granted by UN and nobody else. You can WISH or pretend that its a country, but facts remain. 2. The ICJ decision is VERY important, even if its just recommended and not binding. Again, some say they dont care but let me give you an advice not to be totally surprised. Its the highest court in the world and many countries will follow decisions made there. This is because there must be a supreme law to follow, otherwise anyone can do as they please. 3. The decision by the ICJ will be of huge interrest. This because they will have a VERY hard time to step aside the Helsinki final act from the 70-ties that is signed and UN resolution 1244 that according to all countries in the world (UN) is still valid. (If it was not valid anymore, Eulex could not be in Kosovo - but thats another story.) 4. Aprox. 29% of the world countries have recognized Kosovo as a state and if one count world population, its only about 5-6%. 5. Mr Vuc Jeremic is doing a huge effort to preserve Kosovo. No matter what you think about him, I can tell you that I have personally heard many, many world leaders and foreign ministers that envy him for his skills and especially for his guts and stamina. 6. Many (not all but many)countries that have recognized Kosovo today think that it was a little bit hasty decision. Some say that "we will see what happens after ICJ".
I find 30 countries incredibly hard to believe. Anywhere between 3 to 5 seems more plausible. Washington and its Pristina proxy will be more than happy to accept a tiny fraction just to say that they're still in the game. And if Jeremic claims "30" but we see 3, 4, or 5, he can turn around and say "well, we couldn't prevent all, but we kept 25 - 27 not recognizing".
In the end, recognitions, as I've said countless times, mean absolutely nothing anymore. Whether Kosovo gets 0, 5, or all 30 recognitions, it will not change the internal divisions in the protectorate, will not bring Thaci's authority across the Ibar or into Gracanica, will not get Kosovo into the UN or the EU, and will not make Kosovo any less dependent on the United States and a few other protectoring states. And once the ICJ comes out and gives the ambiguous statement of sovereignty that everyone knows it's going to say, the there need be no more pressure to recognize an entity that will never become a state.
Vukenstein at his finest ladies and gentlemen, manipulating public opinion and setting himself up for a victory when only 5 to 10 countries recognize Kosovo.
Doesn't Serbia have other problems to deal with?
UN nor EU membership is what makes a country a success.
Zimbabwe, Haiti, Liberia, Afghanistan all are UN countries, Taiwan is not.
Romania, Bulgaria are part of the EU, Switzerland is not.
So Kosovo's success is not dependent on either of the 2.
There would have to be more reason than someone blocking memebership to cause independence to change course.
'30 recognitions'?? He is just raising expectations. Even if 11 countries recognize Kosovo(which would be a huge blow) that would be measured as a success by Serbia. LOL. It's all about politics. Every one wants to be reelected, even if they lose Kosovo (which is inevitable) they want to look like they at least tried.
How will Kosovos position change if 20 more countries recognize this failed state? Well it won't! Today Kosovo has some powerful countries behing it and still Kosovo is a complete mess. Even if you get a UN seat the province is still devided due to Serbian objection and it will remain so until a compromise has been worked out. Even a UN seat has no bearing to the reality on the ground. Reality on the ground will eventually create a new solution, whether you like it or not.
so we need 34 more countries to get us up to 96 (1/2 of UN) and then all these discussions become irrelevant. 1/2 of UN and top economic powers recognize kosova. I am not sure what else is left to be said but I am sure Serb politicians will continue their propaganda (so that they can keep their jobs, travel abroad and make some money) -- why not?
Jeremic always exaggerates so that he claim it as another Serbian victory, when only 5 recognise and not 30. He does this so he can claim he has stopped recognitions which were never going to happen. All for the media.
Upon return from New York, Kosovo leaders had said that, maybe 4 other recognitions will come, and not 30.
This is just a number thrown by Jeremic so that when this doesnt happen it will seem like he has won this diplomatic battle. This is the strategy he has been using all along to stay in his post. No politician in the right mind would set himself up based on bets such as the one thrown by Jeremic "we will see who was more successful in 2 weeks time" without knowing the outcome. Jeremic wouldnt have set himself up if he knew that this was a possibility.
What amazes me that this strategy has worked for him over and over again amongts his constituents
Lobbying for new recognitions of the unilateral independence declaration continue by those who have done so in the past,” Jeremić told Danas.
So Serbia is to remain on this self destructive path of butting heads with the most powerful and influential nations on the planet. Good for jet setting Serbian politicians but costly for Serbian people. This is all a front people, you think Vuk and company really believe this battle can be won? They are thinking about elections and consolidating their power in what will be another hastily announced Serbian election, which will probably happen sooner than people think. Kosovo belongs to its population and lets face it Serbs leaders from Serbia proper are foreigners in that land.
I really hope Spain and the others will keep Kosovo out of EU forever!
This Kosovo! If there is a mutual agreed deal I will travel to Brussels to say Kosovo welcome! Anyone for French (actually: Belgium) Fries? I will pay!
Aside from not putting Cyprus in the "Crucial", or "Critical" category, you are absolutely right. But Pristina is not interested in deepening democratic institutions in Kosovo, only deepening their pockets with international aid. It's beyond the scope of someone like Thaci, Sejdiu, or Hyseni to even think of the idea that "sovereignty" will ultimately end in a cul de sac for them. They need to continue playing the recognition game to facilitate some illusion of progress. Yet that crucial Saudi recognition that many here said was the harbinger of a wave of new recognitions did not produce anything. Since then, three more Serb municipalities were created, Belgrade is deepening its cooperation with EULEX, countries that allegedly "support" Kosovo's statehood are not demanding Serbia's recognition for EU entry, and the United States, the one country that could actually do something, is just not interested in anything as long as Bondsteel and a complacent government in Pristina exists. It is a battle they have no chance of winning diplomatically, strategically, or legally.
"It's just so naive to expect K-Albanians to accept "autonomy" under Serbia at this point."
-- To be perfectly honest miri, I really don't think even that's the objective anymore, and I have never said that Kosovo should be an autonomous part of Serbia in the formal sense. I really can't see Kosovo either being compltely reabsorbed back into Serbia, nor can I see it functioning as a sovereign state. I completely agree with you when you say that K-Albanians will not accept Belgrade's rule. But I have to counter in saying that K-Serbs will not accept Pristina's rule. So we have a stalemate in which no one wins unless the goals for negotiation on both sides change. In the end, what I seem to have predicted for a while here (international protectorate) may very well be the result. Albanians can rest assured Belgrade's authority does not extend to their municipalities, and Serbs can rest assured that another state was not carved out of their territory. Kosovo may very well have to accept a diminished status of sovereignty for the sake of long term progress.
I do not understand what is all this fuss with these recognitions.Kosovo was stolen with a use of extreme violence and will be taken back by force as well earlier or later.Mankind cannot afford pseudostates run by narcoterorists in the long run.
By mentioning a number there must be an anticipated number of recognitions around the corner. If suddenly 15 countries recognize Kosovo he can still "tout" success by saying HE successfully prevented 15 from doing so.
Until now I had not expected many until ICJ. Some countries recognize because they agree with the cause, some to align with the west. On the other side some refuse because of their own internal issues, some who want to align with Russia, and some out of anti-American sentiment. But to most of the world it is not such a critical issue that requires immediate decisions, which is what Serbia was banking on by the filing for a "non-binding" decision.
I do not think the decision itself will determine the course of most of these countries, but what transpires in the days following.
Vuk is clearly just wasting his time and Serbia's taxpayers money in a helpless and vain cause. The money he has so far spent on the number of flights to fight Kosova's independence could have easily been spent in more needy parts of Serbia. Someone told me that from January this year until now he has spent 700 hours on air travel!!
it will be nice when kosovo his 96, 1/2 of the un and comes up to the recog numbers of palestine. then the stalemate will become clear for all to see. it doesn't take just 1/2 or un, but 100% of psc... it only takes 1 to say no, and veto principles stop all things dead.
You got the number wrong Jeremic.There are 130 countries under strong pressure to recognize Kosovo. You have already convinced one to never recognize Kosovo that is Serbia. The rest might swing before or after ICJ ruling. Use bigger numbers so whatever the outcome you still look good in the eyes of Serbians.Every excuse will work after that trick.
Important: Slovakia, Greece, Romania, Spain, Cyprus
Crucial: Russia, China
Impossible: Serbia
Anything else is just a side show and changes nothing. The temporary institutions in Pristina should focus on peace and prosperity in the province instead of being smuggled into the UN for some free tea, coffee and cup cakes.
(Zoran, 30 September 2009 18:15)
If Kosovo will be blocked for a while from enjoying the benefits of a UN member, the solution is Albania. In sports, and every other intl events K-Alb will participate (as they do now) through Albania, which will bring the 2 nations even closer, while Belgrade cries me a river in the north. Serbia is pushing K-Alb to rely more and more upon Albania which makes for an informal union in every aspect, much harder to break.
But yes you are right, Pristina gov should focus on proseprity of Kosovo and should not care about Serbia's or Russia's recognition.
If Kosovo is strong economically Serbia will never have a chance to rule it again. A wealthy nation can build a strong and modern army to protect itself. That's what Kosovo should do.
But it is exactly this which Serbia does not want to happen. Serbia will do everything it can, to undermine the progress and destabilize Kosovo.
That's why Albanians should isolate themselves from Serbia in any way shape or form.
But yes you are right, Pristina gov should focus on proseprity of Kosovo and should not care about Serbia's or Russia's recognition.
If Kosovo is strong economically Serbia will never have a chance to rule it again. A wealthy nation can build a strong and modern army to protect itself. That's what Kosovo should do.
Until res 1244 is revoked (only with Serbian signature) you are still legally part of Serbia and have no chance of getting any serious investment there. The only chance you have is to keep collecting welfare from US and UK.
The only business investment you are going to have is Camp Bondsteel.
Business is business and nobody wants to risk their money on somthing which is not stable. Kosovo is not stable and won't be until the Albanians get it through their heads that they have to eventually negotiate something with Serbia.
In the end, recognitions, as I've said countless times, mean absolutely nothing anymore. Whether Kosovo gets 0, 5, or all 30 recognitions, it will not change the internal divisions in the protectorate, will not bring Thaci's authority across the Ibar or into Gracanica, will not get Kosovo into the UN or the EU, and will not make Kosovo any less dependent on the United States and a few other protectoring states. And once the ICJ comes out and gives the ambiguous statement of sovereignty that everyone knows it's going to say, the there need be no more pressure to recognize an entity that will never become a state.
(Mike, 30 September 2009 16:58)
Likewise, no matter how hard Jeremic and his proxies and his brothers around the world work, Belgrade will never see its authority in any form or flavor south of Ibar river. Your dream of further "negotiations" will remain just like that a dream. If you think that only Kosova will suffer from this "frozen" conflict that you so joyfully predict than this is simply a shortsighted view of situation. Serbia won't make a step forward, it will be grounded for as long as stubbornly objects the recognition. It's just so naive to expect K-Albanians to accept "autonomy" under Serbia at this point. K-Albanians were geared up for a republic within Yugoslavia before Rugova and now that they achieved independence you expect someone to force them to bite the bullet and show regret for what they achieved? The only thing that Serbia is doing is taking revenge, nothing else. Sooner or later it will be clear that there would be no more point into doing this and the deadlock will be released.
It is utterly unfair talking about pressure. One can say well it is pressure from the other side as well which is the Russian role in say Syria or Iran that are not recognising Kosova?? I guess Russia has something to say here and perhaps more than juts a legitimate right of expression of her opinion.
One must be very naive thinking that every country in the world knows about Kosova and her problem. Thus, the efforts are exactly in that direction, to make them aware of the importance for a durable stability in south- east that the recognition of independent Kosova brings.
Counties that know very well what Kosova suffered and how important is the independence of Kosova for true and right solution of the last Yugoslavian question for a durable peace in the region 95% of them recognised Kosova in a week time form the declaration of independence.
So what now has left is to inform other leaderships of the world to whom Kosova is not the first thing that comes to their mind when they wake up in the morning about the importance of Kosova's independence. That's all; inform the world about the just cause of recognising Kosova's independence. And this is what is going on right now. It’s a long and hard process but it’s a process that continuous hopefully very soon will end successfully.
Hey Mike, I don't even know what are you saying. International protectorate! What is this? and how long can this last? Wasn't Kosova for 8 years an international protectorate and it was considered unsustainable, hence the need for a final status, Ahtisaari, Troika and so much diplomatic energy spent? I am really confused with your way of thinking. So what are you asking negotiations for then? I always thought that probably partition was in your mind. Frankly if ever there were to be new negotiations would only be on how to partition Serbia and Kosova even more (respectively Presevo and N. Mitrovica). But negotiating just to keep things the same as you suggest? Oh dear!
Second question that I have for you is: Why can't Serbs be a minority in Kosova? Why is this so terrible. Albanians have been a minority for 100 years in Serbia. Albanians are minorities in many other countries too. Macedonia, Monte Negro, Serbia (in presevo valley). Are Serbs some sort of heavenly race that can never be a minority? Why can't Serbs accept for once that this sort of mentality have brought them and the others too much misery already. Why can't you give K-Albanians a chance. And if you really can't stand living a 100 yard close to an Albanian house why don't you be frank and ask for partition then? Let's just split everything and part in our own ways.
I already answered this question. Because Serbs are very revengeful and this is what Serbia is doing now, taking revenge. Enjoy while it lasts.
UNSR: 1244 says that Kosovo is a Yugoslav province, not Serbian. Also the State Union of Serbia and Montenegro is the successor state to Yugoslavia and that itself no longer exists itself. It is something to bare in mind. The whole political scene has changed, it can be argued that UNSR 1244 is dated.
(Dewi, Wales, 1 October 2009 13:08)
It says that Kosovo is part of Yugoslavia. Yes. But it is part of Serbia which is part of Yugoslavia.
If I say that LA is part of the USA. And the USA falls apart, does that mean that LA is no longer part of Callifornia?
Get real! Hate so say but sorry these pro-independence interpretations of Kosovo are very very childish! And unfactual!
Curious how 'team-kosova' have translated Jeremic's '30 countries under pressure to recognize Kosovo' into a new(?) imminent wave of recognitions.
To those of you who believe in this, will simply point out that every other report of an imminent wave (& there have been many) has turned out to be nothing but a ripple.. if that.
Dewi, Wales:
> UNSR: 1244 says that Kosovo is a Yugoslav province, not Serbian. Also the State Union of Serbia and Montenegro is the successor state to Yugoslavia and that itself no longer exists itself. It is something to bare in mind.
Nope - it isn't.
"In the event that Montenegro leaves the union of states, the international documents relating to the FRY, especially UN Security Council Resolution 1244, would relate in their entirety to Serbia as successor." http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/1874523.stm
> The whole political scene has changed, it can be argued that UNSR 1244 is dated.
Not in front of the ICJ.
pss:
Unfortunately, Kosovo has neither the tiger economy of Taiwan nor the history & wealth of Switzerland.
Frank:
> Vuk stop wasting taxpayers money with your none sense trips because Kosovo either way is getting UN seat.
Sorry 'Frank', but the only way 'Kosovo' will get a UN seat is if Sejdiu sneaks out of that 'special room' & nicks one.
Kosova-USA:
> Some poster made a coment that no matter how many countries recognize Kosova, all it takes one Veto.
> I will tell that poster how things work at UN.
> Yes, the matter goes first to UNSC and if there is a veto, any permanent member of UNSC has the right to file a motion to take the matter with UN General Assembly for a vote. You get 2/3 of UNGA and you become a UN Member.There is nothing to it.
Hilarious.. you've really made my day :)
Here's how it actually works..
1: Must first submit application to UN General Secretary.
2: Application then goes to UN Security Council for acceptance. Needs 9 out of 15 votes & veto's apply.
3: If and only if application is accepted by UN SC, then goes before General Assembly where it needs a 2/3 majority for success.
The US pressuring other countries to break international law. These are sad days.
(Ron, 30 September 2009 13:45)
Ron, somehow I doubt, US government is busy doing it. This is not the same US government like a year ago. They would not mind more recognitions, but spending money and time on that is just not their priority #1.
What we cannot underestimate are the different lobbies and NGO-s. They could be pretty powerful in the States and this is not necessarily bad. For instance if you have a consumer-related problem, you have powerful NGO-s which can assist your complain.
Of course, Albanians have their NGO-s, so do Serbs, Greeks, Armenians, etc. They do the job and I am sure, the e-mail boxes of Jeremic, Sedjiu, etc. are literally bombarded every day, so they feel they have to do somewhat to justify their salary.
-----------
Serbia with its allies puts pressue not to recognize and Kosova with its more poewrfull allies puts pressure to recognize. May the best man win. Its fair game.
(Kosova-USA, 30 September 2009 14:47)
Probably not much is happening on the governmental levels in Russia, USA, Germany, India, etc. for or against at this moment. The NGO-s on both side cry bloody murder and demand Jeremic or Sejdiu to jump up and down and show some action. So they jump as high as they can.
And this makes me really jealous.... because here no one jumps and there is not a single NGO which would represent our interests, except ACA maybe.
There should be no pressure on any country to recognise Kosovo! Why do rogue states with no respect for the law or the pending resolution of the ICJ still put pressure on weaker states for recognitions? It's objectionable!
UNSR: 1244 says that Kosovo is a Yugoslav province, not Serbian. Also the State Union of Serbia and Montenegro is the successor state to Yugoslavia and that itself no longer exists itself. It is something to bare in mind. The whole political scene has changed, it can be argued that UNSR 1244 is dated.
No one mentioned!
heheh and Vuk think that since they didnt mention they dont know about it.
Vuk stop wasting taxpayers money with your none sense trips because Kosovo either way is getting UN seat.
What amazes me that this strategy has worked for him over and over again amongts his constituents
(Visar, 30 September 2009 16:20)
What really amazes me is that you've never noticed this exact behaviour by anybody in any sort of position of power, from PresUSA to PresUAW to PMUK to CEO to Coach. All of these positions must proptect themselves by making statements that stack the odds in their favour regardless of the outcome. Every single tax payer, employee or entertained viewer pays part of their taxes, stipens or ticket prices to account for this. These people in power want to stay in power, regardless of the size of the pond that they're swimming in.
'I have stated before that I have quite good insight what is happening with Kosovo due to my profession'.
Staff, guys like you I like the most. Due to my profession you don't have a clue!!! The only thing that matters is, what and who you believe to be sincere in telling the historical reality. For all your points I can bring the opposite reactions, which are all said a hundred times too. Only don't tell this forum that other politicians (or even world-leaders!!, which are your daily companions??!!) envy Jeremic. If you would speak out of your 'profession', you should admit that this is added to your story, because you either like him or just tried to give the rest of your arguments a little bit more weight:)!
We can compare this Kosovo situation to a game, and we are at halftime. There will be a second half, whether in 10 or 20 years time, the Serbs will get vengeance and no mercy will be handed out to terrorists who have usurped and temporarily occupied Serbian territory.
doodah:
The probability that the chinese have abstained on 'Kosovo issues' because they are quite happy to let the russians do the 'heavy-lifting' on these matters seems to have escaped you.
And as for the thawing in relations between the US & Russia, am all for it - last thing we all need is a new cold war (or another 'dubya'). But extrapolating this to a softening of Russia's stance on 'Kosovo issues' is nothing but a K-albanian daydream.
You may have briefly (conveniently?) forgotten Russia's humiliation over Kosovo during the 'Yeltsin years', but Putin hasn't.
pss:
> peter, sydney, true but not many children less than the age of 2 posess the knowledge and strength of adults either.
> If at this point a country could achieve those results I guess they would be the new superposer by age 5.
Am sure that most if not all 'children' would also make the same claims - as all 'kids' like to 'pose' as adults.
But best to not let this get out-of-hand else they could indeed become 'superposers' ;)
Thanks Peter, that link was insightful especially Step 2:
"The application is considered first by the Security Council. Any recommendation for admission must receive the affirmative votes of nine of the 15 members of the Council, provided that none of its five permanent members - China, France, the Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America - have voted against the application. "
Let me translate this for our Alb friends, if any 1 of the 5 permanent members rejects the submission it will never get to Step 3. Serbia has the backing of 2 permanent members, motherland Russia and China.
Kosovo part of UN = Never.
According to the UN:
"The recognition of a new State or Government is an act that only States and Governments may grant or withhold. It generally implies readiness to assume diplomatic relations. The United Nations is neither a State nor a Government, and therefore does not posses any authority to recognize either a State or a Government. "(http://www.un.org/geninfo/faq/briefingpapers/briefing2a.htm)--
Therefore, not being a member of the UN does not mean not being independent.
“Until res 1244 is revoked (only with Serbian signature) you are still legally part of Serbia and have no chance of getting any serious investment there.”
Resolution 1244 DOES NOT need Serbia’s signature to be revoked. Only UNSC has authority to replace it with a new resolution. Since Serbia is not a member of UNSC it has no authority over its resolutions.
“The United Nations is neither a State nor a Government, and therefore does not posses any authority to recognize either a State or a Government.”--- If enough countries do recognize Kosova as independent, Kosova can function without any problem even if the UN does not accept it as a member. UN membership is not a necessity, rather it is more a convenience.
peter, sydney, true but not many children less than the age of 2 posess the knowledge and strength of adults either.
If at this point a country could achieve those results I guess they would be the new superposer by age 5.
Let me translate this for our Alb friends, if any 1 of the 5 permanent members rejects the submission it will never get to Step 3. Serbia has the backing of 2 permanent members, motherland Russia and China.
Kosovo part of UN = Never.
Sorry...
(AdamSRB, 2 October 2009 01:15)
Lets further analyse that: China has supported further negotiations, but I do not think you will find where they have ever threatened to veto anything concerning Kosovo. Of course the Serbians have thrown the phrase around enough that they believe it is gospel. When it comes down to a vote many countries compromise their opinion. Would China do that?- China tends to hold their cards close to the body so no one knows for sure.
The sudden burst of rhetoric from Russia started in late 2006 and caught the world by surprise. Remember, everyone thought the Ahtisaari package was a sure thing. Russia was seeking 2 things, their need to secure the energy deals with Serbia (done), and to reestablish themselves in the international setting. They felt they were not getting repect from the west (esp US). Those things are changing also.
As a result you see a softening of Russia in the stance on Iran.
The only pressure I saw so far is the blood pressure in some Serbian politicians brian who cannot accept that some countries only recognize reality. The only doable reality, because there will be never a going back to the 90s. We already knew the result of this.
On the other hand, Jeremic simply prepares rethorically his own people that the recognition of the indepedent Kosovo has nothing to do with his failure, but a conspiracy of the West....as usual.
"...because these attacks cannot be tolerated under any circumstances and there is no excuse for them. We will do everything we can as a country to make sure that they do not continue,” Jeremić said."
Just return Kovacevic to face justice in the place of crime.
Shows some deeds,enough with empty words.
No one needs your lectures!
Serbia with its allies puts pressue not to recognize and Kosova with its more poewrfull allies puts pressure to recognize. May the best man win. Its fair game.
Ooo yeah,,,there will be more recognitions for sure.
You 're just wasting your time mr. Jeremic. It would be much better for you, and your people to worry about economic crisis and other reasonable problems that people in Serbia are facing today.
Peace to all,,,
You think Kosovo will ever enter EU or UN?
(Ron, 30 September 2009 15:40)
I will be more than happy to answer your question.
UN Mmeber , yes, and sooner than you think
EU Member , not likely for long time , just the same for Serbia. The reason being is that EU is not ready to take any new members from western Balkans at this time, with exception of Croatia.
Some poster made a coment that no matter how many countries recognize Kosova, all it takes one Veto.
I will tell that poster how things work at UN.
Yes, the matter goes first to UNSC and if there is a veto, any permanent member of UNSC has the right to file a motion to take the matter with UN General Assembly for a vote. You get 2/3 of UNGA and you become a UN Member.There is nothing to it.
I find 30 countries incredibly hard to believe. Anywhere between 3 to 5 seems more plausible. Washington and its Pristina proxy will be more than happy to accept a tiny fraction just to say that they're still in the game. And if Jeremic claims "30" but we see 3, 4, or 5, he can turn around and say "well, we couldn't prevent all, but we kept 25 - 27 not recognizing".
In the end, recognitions, as I've said countless times, mean absolutely nothing anymore. Whether Kosovo gets 0, 5, or all 30 recognitions, it will not change the internal divisions in the protectorate, will not bring Thaci's authority across the Ibar or into Gracanica, will not get Kosovo into the UN or the EU, and will not make Kosovo any less dependent on the United States and a few other protectoring states. And once the ICJ comes out and gives the ambiguous statement of sovereignty that everyone knows it's going to say, the there need be no more pressure to recognize an entity that will never become a state.
"It's just so naive to expect K-Albanians to accept "autonomy" under Serbia at this point."
-- To be perfectly honest miri, I really don't think even that's the objective anymore, and I have never said that Kosovo should be an autonomous part of Serbia in the formal sense. I really can't see Kosovo either being compltely reabsorbed back into Serbia, nor can I see it functioning as a sovereign state. I completely agree with you when you say that K-Albanians will not accept Belgrade's rule. But I have to counter in saying that K-Serbs will not accept Pristina's rule. So we have a stalemate in which no one wins unless the goals for negotiation on both sides change. In the end, what I seem to have predicted for a while here (international protectorate) may very well be the result. Albanians can rest assured Belgrade's authority does not extend to their municipalities, and Serbs can rest assured that another state was not carved out of their territory. Kosovo may very well have to accept a diminished status of sovereignty for the sake of long term progress.
I do not understand what is all this fuss with these recognitions.Kosovo was stolen with a use of extreme violence and will be taken back by force as well earlier or later.Mankind cannot afford pseudostates run by narcoterorists in the long run.
so we need 34 more countries to get us up to 96 (1/2 of UN) and then all these discussions become irrelevant. 1/2 of UN and top economic powers recognize kosova. I am not sure what else is left to be said but I am sure Serb politicians will continue their propaganda (so that they can keep their jobs, travel abroad and make some money) -- why not?
Lobbying for new recognitions of the unilateral independence declaration continue by those who have done so in the past,” Jeremić told Danas.
So Serbia is to remain on this self destructive path of butting heads with the most powerful and influential nations on the planet. Good for jet setting Serbian politicians but costly for Serbian people. This is all a front people, you think Vuk and company really believe this battle can be won? They are thinking about elections and consolidating their power in what will be another hastily announced Serbian election, which will probably happen sooner than people think. Kosovo belongs to its population and lets face it Serbs leaders from Serbia proper are foreigners in that land.
"The only pressure I saw so far is the blood pressure in some Serbian politicians brian who cannot accept that some countries only recognize reality."
Berkeley
What reality? Most countries have been pressured to recognize! They haven't done so because they really wanted.
How come 61 countries are right and 135 are not? If one country would have recognized Kosovo you would say the same thing. Listen and understand what I will say: Serbs will NEVER let you steal our territory. Remember that reality!
Vukenstein at his finest ladies and gentlemen, manipulating public opinion and setting himself up for a victory when only 5 to 10 countries recognize Kosovo.
Doesn't Serbia have other problems to deal with?
I think you lost the plot when talking to Zoran "I really hope Spain and the others will keep Kosovo out of EU forever!"
I can see your DESPERATION to "keep Kosovo out of Europe" but do you really think that "the Albanians in Kosova will change their mind and beg Serbia to accept them back so they can get Spanish consent to join EU"?)))) You must me mad...)
Vuk is clearly just wasting his time and Serbia's taxpayers money in a helpless and vain cause. The money he has so far spent on the number of flights to fight Kosova's independence could have easily been spent in more needy parts of Serbia. Someone told me that from January this year until now he has spent 700 hours on air travel!!
How will Kosovos position change if 20 more countries recognize this failed state? Well it won't! Today Kosovo has some powerful countries behing it and still Kosovo is a complete mess. Even if you get a UN seat the province is still devided due to Serbian objection and it will remain so until a compromise has been worked out. Even a UN seat has no bearing to the reality on the ground. Reality on the ground will eventually create a new solution, whether you like it or not.
In the end, recognitions, as I've said countless times, mean absolutely nothing anymore. Whether Kosovo gets 0, 5, or all 30 recognitions, it will not change the internal divisions in the protectorate, will not bring Thaci's authority across the Ibar or into Gracanica, will not get Kosovo into the UN or the EU, and will not make Kosovo any less dependent on the United States and a few other protectoring states. And once the ICJ comes out and gives the ambiguous statement of sovereignty that everyone knows it's going to say, the there need be no more pressure to recognize an entity that will never become a state.
(Mike, 30 September 2009 16:58)
Likewise, no matter how hard Jeremic and his proxies and his brothers around the world work, Belgrade will never see its authority in any form or flavor south of Ibar river. Your dream of further "negotiations" will remain just like that a dream. If you think that only Kosova will suffer from this "frozen" conflict that you so joyfully predict than this is simply a shortsighted view of situation. Serbia won't make a step forward, it will be grounded for as long as stubbornly objects the recognition. It's just so naive to expect K-Albanians to accept "autonomy" under Serbia at this point. K-Albanians were geared up for a republic within Yugoslavia before Rugova and now that they achieved independence you expect someone to force them to bite the bullet and show regret for what they achieved? The only thing that Serbia is doing is taking revenge, nothing else. Sooner or later it will be clear that there would be no more point into doing this and the deadlock will be released.
Kosovo doesn't need 30 recognitions but only 8. There are five important recognitions, two crucial and one impossible.
They are as follows:
Important: Slovakia, Greece, Romania, Spain, Cyprus
Crucial: Russia, China
Impossible: Serbia
Anything else is just a side show and changes nothing. The temporary institutions in Pristina should focus on peace and prosperity in the province instead of being smuggled into the UN for some free tea, coffee and cup cakes.
Jeremic always exaggerates so that he claim it as another Serbian victory, when only 5 recognise and not 30. He does this so he can claim he has stopped recognitions which were never going to happen. All for the media.
Important: Slovakia, Greece, Romania, Spain, Cyprus
Crucial: Russia, China
Impossible: Serbia
Anything else is just a side show and changes nothing. The temporary institutions in Pristina should focus on peace and prosperity in the province instead of being smuggled into the UN for some free tea, coffee and cup cakes.
(Zoran, 30 September 2009 18:15)
If Kosovo will be blocked for a while from enjoying the benefits of a UN member, the solution is Albania. In sports, and every other intl events K-Alb will participate (as they do now) through Albania, which will bring the 2 nations even closer, while Belgrade cries me a river in the north. Serbia is pushing K-Alb to rely more and more upon Albania which makes for an informal union in every aspect, much harder to break.
But yes you are right, Pristina gov should focus on proseprity of Kosovo and should not care about Serbia's or Russia's recognition.
If Kosovo is strong economically Serbia will never have a chance to rule it again. A wealthy nation can build a strong and modern army to protect itself. That's what Kosovo should do.
But it is exactly this which Serbia does not want to happen. Serbia will do everything it can, to undermine the progress and destabilize Kosovo.
That's why Albanians should isolate themselves from Serbia in any way shape or form.
It is utterly unfair talking about pressure. One can say well it is pressure from the other side as well which is the Russian role in say Syria or Iran that are not recognising Kosova?? I guess Russia has something to say here and perhaps more than juts a legitimate right of expression of her opinion.
One must be very naive thinking that every country in the world knows about Kosova and her problem. Thus, the efforts are exactly in that direction, to make them aware of the importance for a durable stability in south- east that the recognition of independent Kosova brings.
Counties that know very well what Kosova suffered and how important is the independence of Kosova for true and right solution of the last Yugoslavian question for a durable peace in the region 95% of them recognised Kosova in a week time form the declaration of independence.
So what now has left is to inform other leaderships of the world to whom Kosova is not the first thing that comes to their mind when they wake up in the morning about the importance of Kosova's independence. That's all; inform the world about the just cause of recognising Kosova's independence. And this is what is going on right now. It’s a long and hard process but it’s a process that continuous hopefully very soon will end successfully.
'30 recognitions'?? He is just raising expectations. Even if 11 countries recognize Kosovo(which would be a huge blow) that would be measured as a success by Serbia. LOL. It's all about politics. Every one wants to be reelected, even if they lose Kosovo (which is inevitable) they want to look like they at least tried.
Aside from not putting Cyprus in the "Crucial", or "Critical" category, you are absolutely right. But Pristina is not interested in deepening democratic institutions in Kosovo, only deepening their pockets with international aid. It's beyond the scope of someone like Thaci, Sejdiu, or Hyseni to even think of the idea that "sovereignty" will ultimately end in a cul de sac for them. They need to continue playing the recognition game to facilitate some illusion of progress. Yet that crucial Saudi recognition that many here said was the harbinger of a wave of new recognitions did not produce anything. Since then, three more Serb municipalities were created, Belgrade is deepening its cooperation with EULEX, countries that allegedly "support" Kosovo's statehood are not demanding Serbia's recognition for EU entry, and the United States, the one country that could actually do something, is just not interested in anything as long as Bondsteel and a complacent government in Pristina exists. It is a battle they have no chance of winning diplomatically, strategically, or legally.
Its quite tragic-comical to read at this forum. Everybody seems to be prophets and to have a glass bowl to look into. I have stated before that I have quite good insight what is happening with Kosovo due to my profession. 1. Even if some people want it so much, Kosovo is not a country, no matter what. As you may know, countries are granted by UN and nobody else. You can WISH or pretend that its a country, but facts remain. 2. The ICJ decision is VERY important, even if its just recommended and not binding. Again, some say they dont care but let me give you an advice not to be totally surprised. Its the highest court in the world and many countries will follow decisions made there. This is because there must be a supreme law to follow, otherwise anyone can do as they please. 3. The decision by the ICJ will be of huge interrest. This because they will have a VERY hard time to step aside the Helsinki final act from the 70-ties that is signed and UN resolution 1244 that according to all countries in the world (UN) is still valid. (If it was not valid anymore, Eulex could not be in Kosovo - but thats another story.) 4. Aprox. 29% of the world countries have recognized Kosovo as a state and if one count world population, its only about 5-6%. 5. Mr Vuc Jeremic is doing a huge effort to preserve Kosovo. No matter what you think about him, I can tell you that I have personally heard many, many world leaders and foreign ministers that envy him for his skills and especially for his guts and stamina. 6. Many (not all but many)countries that have recognized Kosovo today think that it was a little bit hasty decision. Some say that "we will see what happens after ICJ".
it will be nice when kosovo his 96, 1/2 of the un and comes up to the recog numbers of palestine. then the stalemate will become clear for all to see. it doesn't take just 1/2 or un, but 100% of psc... it only takes 1 to say no, and veto principles stop all things dead.
I really hope Spain and the others will keep Kosovo out of EU forever!
This Kosovo! If there is a mutual agreed deal I will travel to Brussels to say Kosovo welcome! Anyone for French (actually: Belgium) Fries? I will pay!
By mentioning a number there must be an anticipated number of recognitions around the corner. If suddenly 15 countries recognize Kosovo he can still "tout" success by saying HE successfully prevented 15 from doing so.
Until now I had not expected many until ICJ. Some countries recognize because they agree with the cause, some to align with the west. On the other side some refuse because of their own internal issues, some who want to align with Russia, and some out of anti-American sentiment. But to most of the world it is not such a critical issue that requires immediate decisions, which is what Serbia was banking on by the filing for a "non-binding" decision.
I do not think the decision itself will determine the course of most of these countries, but what transpires in the days following.
Upon return from New York, Kosovo leaders had said that, maybe 4 other recognitions will come, and not 30.
This is just a number thrown by Jeremic so that when this doesnt happen it will seem like he has won this diplomatic battle. This is the strategy he has been using all along to stay in his post. No politician in the right mind would set himself up based on bets such as the one thrown by Jeremic "we will see who was more successful in 2 weeks time" without knowing the outcome. Jeremic wouldnt have set himself up if he knew that this was a possibility.
What amazes me that this strategy has worked for him over and over again amongts his constituents
You got the number wrong Jeremic.There are 130 countries under strong pressure to recognize Kosovo. You have already convinced one to never recognize Kosovo that is Serbia. The rest might swing before or after ICJ ruling. Use bigger numbers so whatever the outcome you still look good in the eyes of Serbians.Every excuse will work after that trick.
UNSR: 1244 says that Kosovo is a Yugoslav province, not Serbian. Also the State Union of Serbia and Montenegro is the successor state to Yugoslavia and that itself no longer exists itself. It is something to bare in mind. The whole political scene has changed, it can be argued that UNSR 1244 is dated.
Hey Mike, I don't even know what are you saying. International protectorate! What is this? and how long can this last? Wasn't Kosova for 8 years an international protectorate and it was considered unsustainable, hence the need for a final status, Ahtisaari, Troika and so much diplomatic energy spent? I am really confused with your way of thinking. So what are you asking negotiations for then? I always thought that probably partition was in your mind. Frankly if ever there were to be new negotiations would only be on how to partition Serbia and Kosova even more (respectively Presevo and N. Mitrovica). But negotiating just to keep things the same as you suggest? Oh dear!
Second question that I have for you is: Why can't Serbs be a minority in Kosova? Why is this so terrible. Albanians have been a minority for 100 years in Serbia. Albanians are minorities in many other countries too. Macedonia, Monte Negro, Serbia (in presevo valley). Are Serbs some sort of heavenly race that can never be a minority? Why can't Serbs accept for once that this sort of mentality have brought them and the others too much misery already. Why can't you give K-Albanians a chance. And if you really can't stand living a 100 yard close to an Albanian house why don't you be frank and ask for partition then? Let's just split everything and part in our own ways.
I already answered this question. Because Serbs are very revengeful and this is what Serbia is doing now, taking revenge. Enjoy while it lasts.
No one mentioned!
heheh and Vuk think that since they didnt mention they dont know about it.
Vuk stop wasting taxpayers money with your none sense trips because Kosovo either way is getting UN seat.
UN nor EU membership is what makes a country a success.
Zimbabwe, Haiti, Liberia, Afghanistan all are UN countries, Taiwan is not.
Romania, Bulgaria are part of the EU, Switzerland is not.
So Kosovo's success is not dependent on either of the 2.
There would have to be more reason than someone blocking memebership to cause independence to change course.
But yes you are right, Pristina gov should focus on proseprity of Kosovo and should not care about Serbia's or Russia's recognition.
If Kosovo is strong economically Serbia will never have a chance to rule it again. A wealthy nation can build a strong and modern army to protect itself. That's what Kosovo should do.
Until res 1244 is revoked (only with Serbian signature) you are still legally part of Serbia and have no chance of getting any serious investment there. The only chance you have is to keep collecting welfare from US and UK.
The only business investment you are going to have is Camp Bondsteel.
Business is business and nobody wants to risk their money on somthing which is not stable. Kosovo is not stable and won't be until the Albanians get it through their heads that they have to eventually negotiate something with Serbia.
This is ridiculous to even post as news. I want to hear about Jeremic opening markets for Serbian firms in the US, not the other way around! They bombed and then invade the market! Come on now
Amazing how commentators here think they know more, or are smarter than Serbia's FM. Some even call him little Vuk, is that because you think he's cute, or are you being condescending? The bottom line here is, Serbia must use every diplomatic tool it has to stop recognitions of an independent Albanian Kosovo - just like the US has done to pressure countries that have recognized. If an independent Albanian Kosovo was the right option, why would the US have to use pressure? And on little places like the Marshall Islands, that haven't got a clue where Kosovo is, or would I imagine give a damn. What is fair for the goose, is fair for the Vuk, I always say.
The US pressuring other countries to break international law. These are sad days.
(Ron, 30 September 2009 13:45)
Ron, somehow I doubt, US government is busy doing it. This is not the same US government like a year ago. They would not mind more recognitions, but spending money and time on that is just not their priority #1.
What we cannot underestimate are the different lobbies and NGO-s. They could be pretty powerful in the States and this is not necessarily bad. For instance if you have a consumer-related problem, you have powerful NGO-s which can assist your complain.
Of course, Albanians have their NGO-s, so do Serbs, Greeks, Armenians, etc. They do the job and I am sure, the e-mail boxes of Jeremic, Sedjiu, etc. are literally bombarded every day, so they feel they have to do somewhat to justify their salary.
-----------
Serbia with its allies puts pressue not to recognize and Kosova with its more poewrfull allies puts pressure to recognize. May the best man win. Its fair game.
(Kosova-USA, 30 September 2009 14:47)
Probably not much is happening on the governmental levels in Russia, USA, Germany, India, etc. for or against at this moment. The NGO-s on both side cry bloody murder and demand Jeremic or Sejdiu to jump up and down and show some action. So they jump as high as they can.
And this makes me really jealous.... because here no one jumps and there is not a single NGO which would represent our interests, except ACA maybe.
'I have stated before that I have quite good insight what is happening with Kosovo due to my profession'.
Staff, guys like you I like the most. Due to my profession you don't have a clue!!! The only thing that matters is, what and who you believe to be sincere in telling the historical reality. For all your points I can bring the opposite reactions, which are all said a hundred times too. Only don't tell this forum that other politicians (or even world-leaders!!, which are your daily companions??!!) envy Jeremic. If you would speak out of your 'profession', you should admit that this is added to your story, because you either like him or just tried to give the rest of your arguments a little bit more weight:)!
Let me translate this for our Alb friends, if any 1 of the 5 permanent members rejects the submission it will never get to Step 3. Serbia has the backing of 2 permanent members, motherland Russia and China.
Kosovo part of UN = Never.
Sorry...
(AdamSRB, 2 October 2009 01:15)
Lets further analyse that: China has supported further negotiations, but I do not think you will find where they have ever threatened to veto anything concerning Kosovo. Of course the Serbians have thrown the phrase around enough that they believe it is gospel. When it comes down to a vote many countries compromise their opinion. Would China do that?- China tends to hold their cards close to the body so no one knows for sure.
The sudden burst of rhetoric from Russia started in late 2006 and caught the world by surprise. Remember, everyone thought the Ahtisaari package was a sure thing. Russia was seeking 2 things, their need to secure the energy deals with Serbia (done), and to reestablish themselves in the international setting. They felt they were not getting repect from the west (esp US). Those things are changing also.
As a result you see a softening of Russia in the stance on Iran.
UNSR: 1244 says that Kosovo is a Yugoslav province, not Serbian. Also the State Union of Serbia and Montenegro is the successor state to Yugoslavia and that itself no longer exists itself. It is something to bare in mind. The whole political scene has changed, it can be argued that UNSR 1244 is dated.
(Dewi, Wales, 1 October 2009 13:08)
It says that Kosovo is part of Yugoslavia. Yes. But it is part of Serbia which is part of Yugoslavia.
If I say that LA is part of the USA. And the USA falls apart, does that mean that LA is no longer part of Callifornia?
Get real! Hate so say but sorry these pro-independence interpretations of Kosovo are very very childish! And unfactual!
What amazes me that this strategy has worked for him over and over again amongts his constituents
(Visar, 30 September 2009 16:20)
What really amazes me is that you've never noticed this exact behaviour by anybody in any sort of position of power, from PresUSA to PresUAW to PMUK to CEO to Coach. All of these positions must proptect themselves by making statements that stack the odds in their favour regardless of the outcome. Every single tax payer, employee or entertained viewer pays part of their taxes, stipens or ticket prices to account for this. These people in power want to stay in power, regardless of the size of the pond that they're swimming in.
There should be no pressure on any country to recognise Kosovo! Why do rogue states with no respect for the law or the pending resolution of the ICJ still put pressure on weaker states for recognitions? It's objectionable!
Curious how 'team-kosova' have translated Jeremic's '30 countries under pressure to recognize Kosovo' into a new(?) imminent wave of recognitions.
To those of you who believe in this, will simply point out that every other report of an imminent wave (& there have been many) has turned out to be nothing but a ripple.. if that.
Dewi, Wales:
> UNSR: 1244 says that Kosovo is a Yugoslav province, not Serbian. Also the State Union of Serbia and Montenegro is the successor state to Yugoslavia and that itself no longer exists itself. It is something to bare in mind.
Nope - it isn't.
"In the event that Montenegro leaves the union of states, the international documents relating to the FRY, especially UN Security Council Resolution 1244, would relate in their entirety to Serbia as successor." http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/1874523.stm
> The whole political scene has changed, it can be argued that UNSR 1244 is dated.
Not in front of the ICJ.
pss:
Unfortunately, Kosovo has neither the tiger economy of Taiwan nor the history & wealth of Switzerland.
Frank:
> Vuk stop wasting taxpayers money with your none sense trips because Kosovo either way is getting UN seat.
Sorry 'Frank', but the only way 'Kosovo' will get a UN seat is if Sejdiu sneaks out of that 'special room' & nicks one.
Kosova-USA:
> Some poster made a coment that no matter how many countries recognize Kosova, all it takes one Veto.
> I will tell that poster how things work at UN.
> Yes, the matter goes first to UNSC and if there is a veto, any permanent member of UNSC has the right to file a motion to take the matter with UN General Assembly for a vote. You get 2/3 of UNGA and you become a UN Member.There is nothing to it.
Hilarious.. you've really made my day :)
Here's how it actually works..
1: Must first submit application to UN General Secretary.
2: Application then goes to UN Security Council for acceptance. Needs 9 out of 15 votes & veto's apply.
3: If and only if application is accepted by UN SC, then goes before General Assembly where it needs a 2/3 majority for success.
peter, sydney, true but not many children less than the age of 2 posess the knowledge and strength of adults either.
If at this point a country could achieve those results I guess they would be the new superposer by age 5.
According to the UN:
"The recognition of a new State or Government is an act that only States and Governments may grant or withhold. It generally implies readiness to assume diplomatic relations. The United Nations is neither a State nor a Government, and therefore does not posses any authority to recognize either a State or a Government. "(http://www.un.org/geninfo/faq/briefingpapers/briefing2a.htm)--
Therefore, not being a member of the UN does not mean not being independent.
“Until res 1244 is revoked (only with Serbian signature) you are still legally part of Serbia and have no chance of getting any serious investment there.”
Resolution 1244 DOES NOT need Serbia’s signature to be revoked. Only UNSC has authority to replace it with a new resolution. Since Serbia is not a member of UNSC it has no authority over its resolutions.
“The United Nations is neither a State nor a Government, and therefore does not posses any authority to recognize either a State or a Government.”--- If enough countries do recognize Kosova as independent, Kosova can function without any problem even if the UN does not accept it as a member. UN membership is not a necessity, rather it is more a convenience.
Thanks Peter, that link was insightful especially Step 2:
"The application is considered first by the Security Council. Any recommendation for admission must receive the affirmative votes of nine of the 15 members of the Council, provided that none of its five permanent members - China, France, the Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America - have voted against the application. "
Let me translate this for our Alb friends, if any 1 of the 5 permanent members rejects the submission it will never get to Step 3. Serbia has the backing of 2 permanent members, motherland Russia and China.
Kosovo part of UN = Never.
doodah:
The probability that the chinese have abstained on 'Kosovo issues' because they are quite happy to let the russians do the 'heavy-lifting' on these matters seems to have escaped you.
And as for the thawing in relations between the US & Russia, am all for it - last thing we all need is a new cold war (or another 'dubya'). But extrapolating this to a softening of Russia's stance on 'Kosovo issues' is nothing but a K-albanian daydream.
You may have briefly (conveniently?) forgotten Russia's humiliation over Kosovo during the 'Yeltsin years', but Putin hasn't.
pss:
> peter, sydney, true but not many children less than the age of 2 posess the knowledge and strength of adults either.
> If at this point a country could achieve those results I guess they would be the new superposer by age 5.
Am sure that most if not all 'children' would also make the same claims - as all 'kids' like to 'pose' as adults.
But best to not let this get out-of-hand else they could indeed become 'superposers' ;)
We can compare this Kosovo situation to a game, and we are at halftime. There will be a second half, whether in 10 or 20 years time, the Serbs will get vengeance and no mercy will be handed out to terrorists who have usurped and temporarily occupied Serbian territory.
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