Greece to recognize Kosovo passports

To Jeff. D:

I think your comments are jibberish! How can you ask the Serbs not to get emotional about Kosovo when it is the birthplace of the nation. We have an ethnic minority that has rebelled against the central authority with the help of foreign governments who are hell bent on getting their hands on the natural resources of Kosovo. Show me one country that would accept the amputation of 15% of it's territory. Oh, and please don't spurt the usual "Serbia lost the right to Kosovo when it mistreated the albanians" because using this logic Germany would today be a Jewish state and Turkey would be a Kurdish state! What about the Anglo-Saxon treatment of the native Indians of America??!!

I feel bad for people of serbia who counted Greece and Russia as their friends. Time is showing that the only best friend of Serbians are Serbians themselves.
(uli, 19 September 2008 15:31)
--
The Russian and Greek people will always be friends of Serbians even though both turned a blind eye when NATO bombed and murdered our civilians. Serbians see that as a weakness of their respective governments and not a sign of the people turning against us.

The recognition of passports is by no means recognition of the country and it seems that under extreme pressure that is the compromise those countries (Greece, Macedonia and Montenegro) had to make.

People like Jeff obviously have no idea what being Serbian means. There was a time when siding with the NAZIs with all of its might seemed like the winning bet but history proved that wrong. We Serbians are principled and proud people and if it takes 500 years to remove this occupation then so be it but Serbia will never recognise Kosovo and that is that. Nothing more needs to be said.

However, I'm sure that I'll see this occupation off Serbian land with their tails behind their legs in my lifetime. Just like the Ottomans and NAZIs, so will NATO be evicted. The might of the US has already peaked and there is absolutely no chance it can outdo the 3 billion people (in Russia, India, China, Brazil) ready to take the crown. Our friends are getting stronger day by day so it is just a matter of time.

Jeff,

Assume that you own a 3 bedroom condo. You've been renting one of the smaller bedrooms to someone. That someone invites their family and friends to live in that room.

Suddenly these tenants demand that you give them that room based on that they have been there for some time and there are more of than than you.

You complain to your condo board but they do nothing about it. You try to retain your bedroom but the condo board stops you.

How would you feel and what would you do?

Would you just accept it because the condo board said so or would you try to get your rightful room back?

What amazes me is how some people look at the Kosovo problem as either black or white. Kosovo is very complex problem and it requires that all sides be constructive. Greece has done the right think by recognizing Kosovo’s passport. Greece has played a constructive role in the Balkans. I wish Serbia would follow Greece’s example and become a good neighbor and contribute to the stability and well being of Kosovo’s residents instead of continually trying to block Kosovo from making the slightest progress.

Common sense should prevail here. Every Serb should ask a question: What does Serbia have to gain from preventing Kosovo getting its international recognition? Emotions aside and with clear head everyone should realize that Serbia is fighting a losing battle. Does anyone think that Kosovars declared independence without the approval of Germany, France, UK, Italy, Japan, Holland and United States. Let’s not even talk about the military might of these nations. These are powerful allies who control close to 75% percent of the world’s wealth. If Serbia thinks that it can win a diplomatic battle against these nations then it is in for a rude awakening. I been listening to what president Tadic has been saying and I suggest that instead of repeating the line “Serbia will never recognize Kosovo” he should switch the line to “We will respect the opinion of the court”. Since obviously no Serb politician has the courage to admit that Kosovo is lost then you have to go international body and ask them to enforce a principle which deep down you know its not going to work. This is nothing more than a delaying tactic by the Belgrade however this game will cost Belgrade dearly in investment and other delaying tactics by the above named countries.

Thank you Greece!

Ambassador of Serbia in Athens can start to fillister his luggages.

I feel bad for people of serbia who counted Greece and Russia as their friends. Time is showing that the only best friend of Serbians are Serbians themselves.

God bless u Greece.

Some days ago I mentioned that Greece is gonna recognize our country, so that day has come - first the passports, then the country!

Well done Serbian diplomacy. Who's next on the list?

AS a Greek myself, I'm very disapointed by this decision of Greece. The Greek people and the Greek Church stand firmly behind the Serbs in their efforts to preserve Kosovo as part of Serbia (albeit as an autonomous, Albanian enclave). This is why Greece will NEVER officially recognize Kosovo as an independent country. It would be political suiside for any of our politicians to do so.

However, the pressure Greece is under from the US with regards to the Macedonia issue and Cyprus (and Greece's efforts to secure visa free travel to the US) have caused our government to make this decision. All of this becomes evident if you read between the lines of what our Foreighn Minister has been saying.

:) The passport means nothing without a visa. Clearly, your celebrations are miss-placed. As for Greece recognising Kosovo...I don't think so. They'd have to recognise the occupied part of Cyprus as independent. This is not going to happen. As for joining the EU, well again Cyprus will block you. Those who have no hope will clutch at any ray of light. Oh well, enjoy it.

It is about time when they will join the rest of the most powerful countries in the world and recognize Kosovo also.

I don't know where this announcement came from since there is no confirmation from
the Greek foreign ministry.
Only last week the Greek foreign minister,at her meeting with Jeremy,repeated that Greece will not recognise Kosovo for
the forseeable future.My guess is that if the above announcement holds true it will probably be connected to the new EU directive for visa free travelling for citizens of non-EU Balkan countries.
It could also be a move to stop all the illegal Albanian
immigration to Greece.

Assume that you own a 3 bedroom condo. You've been renting one of the smaller bedrooms to someone. That someone invites their family and friends to live in that room.

Suddenly these tenants demand that you give them that room based on that they have been there for some time and there are more of than you.
(Nemanja, Connecticut, 19 September 2008 18:25)
It is exactly what Serbs did in 7 century. They came to work in Balkans and later kicked all Balkan People out of their property and “legally” became landlord of Balkans. It is true as you describe. It can happen.

To Nemanja you are right but is the opposite because the serbian are the one who have been tenants and occupied our land for centuries but now is time to get it back.And as for Greece thank you soon they will also accept our independent country the same happened with Macedonia and Montenegro first passports now even they gave the dates when they will formaly accept independence of KOsova.To Jeff.D thank for explaining to others the reality of Kosova.

This is really pathetic. Do Serbs really think that Serbian rule can realistically return to Kosovo? The days of WWII and Post Ottoman geo politics are over. This is a new world. We are all heading into the EU. You are surrounded by NATO and EU countries! You have to conform! India, Brazil, China, Russia don't give a damn about Serbia or Albania, or Kosova for that matter. Even less for ordinary citizens of these countries.

If Serbia woke up and let go of Kosova, it would become a regional economic powerhouse. The GDP would grow to match that of the Check Republic or even a West European country like Holland or Belgium. There is so much potential there. And by joining NATO and EU foreign investment would sore growing small, medium and large businesses and improving the lives of ordinary Serbs in Serbia as well as Kosova.

Look at Slovenia, they are laughing at the rest of us. Soon Croatia will be in the EU. Albania is already in NATO and attracting the highest investments in the western balkans.

Wake up and smell what's cooking!!!

Let's all move on and make some money, we will be in the same country again when we are in the EU.

PS: The most dissapointing thing in all of this is that I am yet to read a Serb post saying, "What Serb troops did in Kosova and Bosnia is terrible. The rape, pillage and mass murder" You saw the Scorpions Tape. That's what your police and army did. I saw it with my own eyes. And still no remorse. And you want us to be Serbian citizens? Never!

Someone above wrote:
"We Serbians are principled and proud people and if it takes 500 years to remove this occupation then so be it"

The attitude of "we Serbians are proud" has the not so subtle implication that the rest of the people around you, like the Croats, Bosniaks, Albanians, Romanians, etc., are not proud. It is precisely this mentality of being superior, and better than your neighbors, which caused Serbia to fall on its nose time and again. For as long as this attitude is reflected in the widespread public opinion of Serbia, not only will there never be peace in the Balkans, but Serbia will continue to be on the losing side. I think it is time you stopped looking at yourself as superior people, and realize that you are just another Balkan nation!

To all greeks,
I think this is it, your government which is a democratic one, just told you that Kosova is going to be recognized soon.
Greeks have more in common with Albanians, than Serbs.. face it.. many greeks have Albanian blood or related to Albania, as well as many Albanians have greek ancestory..
Slavs are new in the balkans and that's a fact.

Greece did about all it could do during the 1990s to support the Serbs. Surely, you didn't expect them to support Milosevic. Even the Serbs disowned him. And you didn't expect the Greeks to give military support either.

Greece took a lot of diplomatic heat for their support of the Serbs in the 1990s.

How did Serbia repay Greece? Well, by first suing it, and then taking Macedonia's side in the name battle.

I fail to see why Greece should respect Serbia's sensitivities when, after supporting Serbia as best they could in the 1990s, Serbia turned right around and stabbed Greece in the back.

Food for thought.

Greece has finally seen the light. This is the first step towards full recognition as Athens cannot ignore reality.

Impressive. Greece should lobby Cyprus.

The Greeks should be ashamed of themselves. I have reading some history and I read that Croats fought with the Serbs in Kosovo. How could this be?

Myabe one day the Serbs and Croats will come to their senses and split Bosnia in two.

I think that there is a clear rationale and explanation here. Bakoyiannis met with Kouchner today, who expressed clear support for Greece's position on FYROM. In other words, it could well have been the case that in return for accepting Kosovo passports (but not full recognition), the EU presidency throws its full weight behind Greece on the name issue. Expect to see FYROM come under a lot of EU pressure to cut a deal in the near future.

http://www.mfa.gr/www.mfa.gr/Articles/en-US/19092008_SB1856.htm

It is a fact that we greeks have more in common with albanians then serbs. We been sharing the culture with them for at least 3000 years ,, long before slavs came to balkans. Albanians are our friend as serbs. We support both of them

This passports are not just to travel abroad, more than anything else they are a prof of identity of a citizen.
In this case they are a prof of ID of citizens from the Republic of Kosovo and inportant countries are recognizing this inmportant documents. ICJ its a really good thing for the K-albanians because after its verdict Serbia will have no reasons not to recognise Kosovo. I'm saying this because Serbia will accept ISJs verdict no matter what.

I see some coments made here about history. It that a Serbian way of looking into history. Hole world knows that Ilyrians are the first of Albanians that lived in that area since the civilization of Balkan is known. Everyone know from where the slavic people came from!!! If historicly we look, we have in antic times fight with greek people together until newdays. Greece did good with recognizing of passports, this shows their interest for peace in Balkans. Serbia cannot push 2 milion people to live with them against their will. For the comment of Albanians from Kosovo going to Greece.Personaly I dont know any Kosovar living or working in Greece. There much much larger number of Serbs there.

Greece will never recognise Kosovo as indepedent unless our friends Serbs tell us to do so.
Greece will never allow Kosovo to join the EU unless it's IN Serbia.
End of story about Greece and Kosovo.

Some of you people are really funny. There is enough material here to publish a book of jokes and make it a best seller:

@14
"I think that there is a clear rationale and explanation here. ...//...in return for accepting Kosovo passports (but not full recognition), the EU presidency throws its full weight behind Greece on the name issue."
And why exactly we waited for this long, since Sarkozy himself on the first days of France's presidency, some months ago, openly sided with us and already did so in Bucharest too? I love rational explanations :)

@21
"Haven't you heard the expression: Do not trust the Greeks?"
Actually noone has ever heard of that expression. What we have heard is "fear the Danaans bearing gifts" which is a whole world different than what you say and alsowhat you mean. Because if you think about it, it shouldbe you that should be afraid and not the Serbs.

@19
"Greece has finally seen the light."
We are in the light for sometime now, it seems that others are still in the dark.

@22
"Hole world knows that Ilyrians are the first of Albanians that lived in that area since the civilization of Balkan is known."
Only albanians know that. The rest of the world knows that Illyrians and albanians have nothing in common.

"If historicly we look, we have in antic times fight with greek people together until newdays."
If you look at the past until nowadays, you will se that albanians were always fighting against the Greeks, from the time you came here until recently.

@23
"Greeks have more in common with Albanians, than Serbs.. face it.."
True, we have borders with albania but not with Serbia. Other than that, we have nothing in common with albanians.

Seriously now. D.Bakoyanni said a few days ago, meeting Jeremic:
"We believe that its presence (EULEX) will contribute to stability and security in the region. It’s presence must not be linked to the issue of Kosovo’s status. Greece’s participation certainly does not imply recognition."
So as you can see there is no such thing as a recognition visible in the near future for Greece. And I will also give you another parameter. You Serbs should look with a half eye towards your fellow Slavs (Bosnia, Croatia, Fyrom, etc) for their moves towards Kossovo and stop being dissapointed in Greece. Greece has proven that it stands by the one that is on the right. Your brothers abandoned you, not us. And if I really can understand your stance towards Fyromian name issue, since you are all Slav brothers, at the same time you had to chose between brothers and friends and I really understand the tough choice, you cant go around and blame us for something that hasnt actually happened yet (UDI recognition) and it is not going to happen anytime soon.
First be straight with us nad then complain for any decisions we make (which we havent).
As for the albanians in here. Dont rejoyce. Nothing happened actually. This is not a recognition of a state, it is a recognition of travel documents that we had to do, under the new directive of "open borders in the Balkans" policy and has nothing to do with you or your state.
It is so easy to twist things and present them as a diplomatic or other kind of victory when it isnt, that it gets frightening sometimes. Next thing we will hear is that Kossovans are albanians.....

To Serbs.

Haven't you heard the expression: Do not trust the Greeks?
Otherwise you'll end up with a Trojan Horse!!

uli

"I feel bad for people of serbia who counted Greece and Russia as their friends. Time is showing that the only best friend of Serbians are Serbians themselves."


I don't think you are as disappointed as I am for this evidently hard decision of the Greeks. But after all Greece is a small European country and a member of both NATO & EU. Who knows what was the price of such a hostile step ? Besides it looks rather like a compromise coz no recognition of the Snake is discussed. Time will show what this strange decision will lead to.

As for Russia the Serbs have nothing to worry about. Even after they twice have voted the pro-Brussels coalition Russia has not turned away. Outside Serbia there are no forces able to spoil our brotherhood. And this is what Serbs have to take care of. Even if the rest of the world turns away Russia alone is able to provide the prosperity and peace in Serbia.

We are too busy with two urgent problems now trying to bar ourselves from the world crisis and to minimize the sequences of the US attack in Georgia. It won’t take long and very soon we’ll be back to the Serbian stage. They have been treating both us so unjust and so long that we cannot afford forgiving them. Whatever they say it is Russia who will punish the West but not the opposite. We have such tools while the West has got only bare anger and frustrated dreams of the past.

xcuse me but our friends Serbs aren't those who recognize first above every country the FYROM as "Macedonia"?

Do u know how the Greeks felt when u did that?

We was on your side during the wars even if all the rest of the world wasn't.

So,u better don't talk about Greek/Serbian friendship when u never stand to our side.

Thank you Greece,

Finally it seems that everybody in the Balkans is coming to their senses after a period of hysteria and nightmare feelings about Kosova. Macedonia and Montenegro will eventually recognize Kosova as a independent state. Such moves were preceded by passport recognitions which means Greece is charting through the same waters and with Bosnia split along the etnic lines in terms of Kosova recognition, Serbia will self-isolate itself in the neighborhood that is living.
To Nemanja: The Jews got their land after 3000 long years...Kosova is getting what the others, Serbs included, already have. Denying that again and you will see no future....
The Illyrian Eagle

to nikitas:
Whe exactly did the Albanians arrive in the Balkans 'cause there is no mention of that. Albanians have been living in the Balkans for thousands of years.
All that talk about Albanians being related to Caucasus people (Azerbaijanis if I'm not mistaken) is a stupidity since Azerbaijan language is closely related to Turkish and Turksih is no Indo-European language unlike Albanian. And believe me you have things in common with the Albanians. One of them is that there are almost no blond Albanians and Greeks.

Greece was in Nato, when Nato bombed Serbia. Greece had the power to veto Nato's decisions about Macedonia entering it over a stupid name issue two months ago. But it didn't veto the decision of bombing Serbia, back in 1999. Talk about friendship...

After reading many comments, I feel I should write a bit about Kosovo. Kosovo Albanians from 1974 till late eighties had the most wide autonomy given to a minority in the world. Kosovo had its own government, parliament, flag and a representative in the 8 member collective presidency. Apart from the penal code, the Pristina parliament had to approve all the Serbian laws before applie. The official documents were translated in different languages (SerboCroat, Albanian,Turk). The government of Kosovo made even official visits to other countries. It had the right to decide on the allocation of money given by the fund for underdeveloped areas. It decided on the context of education textbooks. The names of the streets in Pristina were in Albanian. The Albanian pupils were taught in their mother language till they went to the university and then only they may had some classes in SerboCroat in some objects. The quota system guaranteed the dominance of Albanians at the public sector. Despite te fact that Kosovo progressed as being part of Yugoslavia (in 1945 the majority of the population were illiterate and extremely poor) and having so many rights, the Kosovo Albanians revolted in 1981 although they were not suppressed. An honest evaluation would indicate that Kosovo Albanians benefited from being Yugoslav citizens. In nineties the Kosovo Albanians were suppressed and stripped from their rights. But I have to note that a) in independent Kosovo the Serb minority in peaceful time is much more suppressed (Orthodox temples destroyed, Serbs killed or prosecuted and their property taken etc) and the attitude of Albanians amounts effectively to ethnic cleansing. b) In 1998 Serbia used violence against civilians and moved internally Albanian villagers in order to crack down KLA. Leaving aside that this is a practice of many governments (Turkey, Iraq under Saddam against Kurd guerillas, military government of Guatemala against opponents etc.), it must be said that KLA also attacked and killed Serb civilians and Albanians who had different view and did not support Kosovo secession. KLA attacked deliberately even civilians, hoping to escalate the conflict and provide the pretext for western military intervention. I just remember that Karla Del Ponte (who definitely does not sympathize the Serb side) at her book wrote that the KLA guerillas extracted the organs of Serb prisoners and later sold them. KLA obviously was a fascist type liberation movement similar to prewar Ustashi.
Now about the comment of Dimitar. Unfortunately almost all the Balkan countries are USA colonies at the moment, including FYROM. FYROM, Albania, Bulgaria even sent troops participating at the illegal occupation of Iraq. I am glad Greece did not. I am also proud that the majority of the Greek population objected to the illegal (without UN approval) aggressions against Iraq (2003), Yugoslavia (1999). However, the Greek governments usually do not dare to stand against powerful countries against USA, although it is naïve to believe that any member of NATO could have vetoed the decision of USA and the major European countries to attack Yugoslavia. USA would go ahead unilaterally as they did in 2003 against Iraq.
But honestly I find the attitude of our neighbours difficult to grasp. Macedonia geographically is occupied by 3 countries (Greece, Bulgaria, FYROM). So, they can not use exclusively the term Macedonians, because the inhabitants at other parts of Macedonia are also Macedonians (Greek Macedonians, Bulgarian Macedonians). Our neighbours have no relation with ancient Macedonia. A fair assessment would be to call themselves SlavMacedonians. Besides, it is a mystery when and how the Macedonian nation was formed and the mainly agricultural population developed national consciousness , bearing in mind that: a) In Macedonia there were many dialects which were a mixture between SerboCroat and Bulgarian languages, depending on the location (close to Bulgaria or Serbia). Only after 1945 the local dialect was given the status of language. All the Orthodox Christian nations had their own Churches in 19th century (Greece, Serbia, Bulgaria). Macedonian Church was formed in 1967 after state intervention by the communist authorities. VMRO had the slogan “Macedonia to Macedonians”, but this was a slogan of the socialists who advocated a federation in order to avoid bloody wars among national states and the transfer of populations that accompanied them. It is not a proof that there was a Macedonian nation at that period. VMRO disintegrated to an instrument of Bulgarian propaganda after the first world war. The fact that even today many Slav Macedonians (including the former priminister and leader of VMRO) obtained Bulgarian citizenship indicates that many people there do not have a distinct national identity.

"PS: The most disappointing thing in all of this is that I am yet to read a Serb post saying, "What Serb troops did in Kosova and Bosnia is terrible. The rape, pillage and mass murder" You saw the Scorpions Tape. That's what your police and army did. I saw it with my own eyes. And still no remorse. And you want us to be Serbian citizens? Never!"
(Prince of Albania, 19 September 2008 19:53)

thank you, Prince -- i have brought up this point so many times, but it always seems to fall on deaf ears, at least on this site. but i do believe there are serb individuals that feel great remorse for these horrible atrocities, and some are even brave enough to say so, publicly.

anyway, i PROmised to stay positive when we have these celebratory days (pro independence.) i never tire of sayig it: So, thank you, Greece. i've never considered you the "enemy," -- why should i? i've always loved the greeks that i've met, who generally have gone out of their way to be warm and inviting, and i mean that in many different ways...

somehow we need to stay positive, and not get caught up in all of the bitterness, hate and negativity. it isn't easy, believe me!! but let us try.

thank you Greece, now and forever. and good tidings to all of our frnds and and pro-democracy allies around the globe, whatever your location or ethnicity.
we are all one world.

wage peace, not war.

robert-o
robertoruss@yahoo.com

This is no big deal actually. Accepting Prisitna's passports is NOT equivalent to recognition of Kosovo AS A COUNTRY. Far from it.

Look at China and Taiwan. Most countries recognize Taiwan as part of China but they accept Taiwanese passports too.

we're disappointed,but we know what greek people feels for serbs (proved so many times),so we're not angry with you...it's all politics... jeff,and ZOKI BG -good point of views!

Florin

"It is precisely this mentality of being superior, and better than your neighbors, which caused Serbia to fall on its nose time and again. For as long as this attitude is reflected in the widespread public opinion of Serbia, not only will there never be peace in the Balkans, but Serbia will continue to be on the losing side. I think it is time you stopped looking at yourself as superior people, and realize that you are just another Balkan nation!"

Well said. You nailed it on the head.

Ako

sceptic: Besides, it is a mystery when and how the Macedonian nation was formed and the mainly agricultural population developed national consciousness.

No mystery at all> The strong age old Bulgarian consciousness was ruthlessly uprooted during Royal Yugoslavia. All the inteligentsia, down to the last village teacher or prist was exiled, "reeducated" or worse. During WWII the Bulgarian pro-nazi autorities, expelled the Serb administration, but sisnce the old refugees did not return home, they appointed adminsitration from Bulgaria that was not always sensitive to the locals. So they accepted the communist proposal to be Macedonian -neither Serbs nor Bulgarians. But the new generations born and bred as Macedonians this was not enough. So the believe they descend from Alexander!

Speaking of Serbia... A Serb here said that the villages of the Romanians in the Timok valley look a lot better than Romanian villages even though Serbia is not a EU member and Romania is. True indeed. Let me tell you something about Romania. Romania's population is twice that of Serbia which makes Romania a larger market and therefore more attractive to foreign investors than Serbia. This year we have an economic growth of 8.8% and the year hasn't ended yet.
On a different note: we have dozens of Romanian televisions. How many Serbian televisions do you have? We have 3 news tv's (the US has only two, CNN and FOX News), 3 tv's for women, at least 3 sport tv's (one of the stations is threefold, like EuroSport and EuroSport2 only this has 3 channels, not 2), a cultural channel, a movie channel (like HBO), 1 or 2 music channels (I am not sure whether one of them is Romanian or it's the Romanian version of a foreign channel) and 10-15 general tv's. There are 2 tv channels in the making: TVR3 and TVR Info. We don't have kids channels though, we only have Romanian versions of foreign kids tv's.

@ Burek i Baklava; quote,"...Greece is in NATO and did nothing to stop the bombing of Serbia"... exactly!

I find it interesting that many Serbs tend to forgive Greece for every successive betrayal. They'll say - and I've seen comments like the following on this blog - "Thanks Greece, we know you did everything in your power to help us, but there was nothing else you could do! We understand..."

On the other hand, the Greek Government showed how nasty they can be when it comes to protecting the lies that cement the modern Greek nation together, with vetoing MACEDONIA's Nato accession. Mis-using the "name issue" with MACEDONIA in order to deflect internal Greek Govt. scandals, raise the Govt.s popularity etc. is one thing, but going out on a limb to help their "Orthodox brothers", the Serbs, is quite another! Whereas MACEDONIA's name is an issue of Greek vanity, the bombing of Serbia was one of human lives, billions of dollars in livelihoods, Serb infrastructure etc.

The comments from "Greeks", on this article alone, bristle with resentment at the Greek perception of Serbian betrayal regarding MACEDONIA.
The fact is, the only thing that matters to "Greeks" is getting enough people onside to force a name change onto MACEDONIA!

I think the question the MACEDONIAN Govt. asked the Kosovo Alb.s; "under which name will you refer to us as?", was a simple ploy to see the Kosovo position. It's been revealed that Taci's Govt. was under extreme pressure to refer to us under the acronym, and its obvious where that has come from. The Greeks recognising the Kosovo passport is, no doubt, something the Kos. Alb.s have extracted in return! As always, we are a pawn in all of our neighbors' intrigues!

Romanian: "Speaking of Serbia... A Serb here said that the villages of the Romanians in the Timok valley look a lot better than Romanian villages even though Serbia is not a EU member and Romania is. True indeed."

I said that and I am not a Serb! The contex of it was that there is no "Romanian" question in Serbia. Romanian speaking people there are with strong Serbian national consciousness and hate being called "Vlah".
True Romania and Bulgaria that were far behind Serbia and in some restects still are have a happier present and somewhat brighter future. And Serbs have only themselves to blame! To preserve themselves from future seperatist movements (such as a possible Romanian one, not to mention Hungarian, "Muslim' etc. they hadve just to let Kosovo go! Some Serbs here express opinion that they would be happy to keep Kosovo even if K-Albanians get 20+% of the seats of the parliament. They have no idea how unwise that is. Well it is enough to look at the Macedonian political scene!

nik:
I was not referring to you. I was referring to bmrusila. As I said twice before I met Romanians from the Timok valley who called themselves Romanians, not Vlach, not Serbs. You are not well informed on this issue.

@ skeptic; Macedonia is expecting liberalisation of Visa scheme in 2009... then you will see mass dumping of Bulgarian passports! Your observation is malicious ( I think ), you couldn't be that ignorant.

Hey nik...have you heard of the saying "Smrt ili Sloboda"? Have you heard of the Ilinden Uprising in Krushevo 1903 ? How about a visit to the Millenium monument in Krusevo where you can educate yourself on MACEDONIAN history!!!

Have you heard of the Kresna Uprising in Eastern Macedonia against the Blgari??? (circa 1880's) No...? Then DO YOURSELF A FAVOR AND EDUCATE YOURSELF!!

The first MACEDONIAN DIOCESE is currently being unearthed in the Lence/Gradiste region of Tetovo! Three basilicas, a temple, three baptismals!
Circa 4th to 5th Century AD! Found in the largest basilica... TWO MACEDONIAN SUNS... THE LARGEST WITH 16 RAYS, THE SMALLER WITH 8. This is one of many, many proofs of the ethnic MACEDONIAN history on the territory of MACEDONIA ( not "Greek", not Serbian, not Bulgarian... MACEDONIAN)!!

I could give you countless proofs, but it really is disappointing when none of it matters! This is why Balkans is a mess... everyone has a primitive agenda...hates everyone else, you know 'you are our problem'...EXCEPT THE MACEDONIANS, who just want to get on with life! We're sick and tired of all of your petty little power struggles! How dare you deny our beingness, then turn around and thieve portions of our heritage and history, in order to enrich yourselves at our expense!

What amazes me is how some people look at the Kosovo problem as either black or white. Kosovo is very complex problem and it requires that all sides be constructive. Greece has done the right think by recognizing Kosovo’s passport. Greece has played a constructive role in the Balkans. I wish Serbia would follow Greece’s example and become a good neighbor and contribute to the stability and well being of Kosovo’s residents instead of continually trying to block Kosovo from making the slightest progress.

Common sense should prevail here. Every Serb should ask a question: What does Serbia have to gain from preventing Kosovo getting its international recognition? Emotions aside and with clear head everyone should realize that Serbia is fighting a losing battle. Does anyone think that Kosovars declared independence without the approval of Germany, France, UK, Italy, Japan, Holland and United States. Let’s not even talk about the military might of these nations. These are powerful allies who control close to 75% percent of the world’s wealth. If Serbia thinks that it can win a diplomatic battle against these nations then it is in for a rude awakening. I been listening to what president Tadic has been saying and I suggest that instead of repeating the line “Serbia will never recognize Kosovo” he should switch the line to “We will respect the opinion of the court”. Since obviously no Serb politician has the courage to admit that Kosovo is lost then you have to go international body and ask them to enforce a principle which deep down you know its not going to work. This is nothing more than a delaying tactic by the Belgrade however this game will cost Belgrade dearly in investment and other delaying tactics by the above named countries.

God bless u Greece.

Some days ago I mentioned that Greece is gonna recognize our country, so that day has come - first the passports, then the country!

Well done Serbian diplomacy. Who's next on the list?

It is about time when they will join the rest of the most powerful countries in the world and recognize Kosovo also.

Thank you Greece!

Ambassador of Serbia in Athens can start to fillister his luggages.

I feel bad for people of serbia who counted Greece and Russia as their friends. Time is showing that the only best friend of Serbians are Serbians themselves.

This is really pathetic. Do Serbs really think that Serbian rule can realistically return to Kosovo? The days of WWII and Post Ottoman geo politics are over. This is a new world. We are all heading into the EU. You are surrounded by NATO and EU countries! You have to conform! India, Brazil, China, Russia don't give a damn about Serbia or Albania, or Kosova for that matter. Even less for ordinary citizens of these countries.

If Serbia woke up and let go of Kosova, it would become a regional economic powerhouse. The GDP would grow to match that of the Check Republic or even a West European country like Holland or Belgium. There is so much potential there. And by joining NATO and EU foreign investment would sore growing small, medium and large businesses and improving the lives of ordinary Serbs in Serbia as well as Kosova.

Look at Slovenia, they are laughing at the rest of us. Soon Croatia will be in the EU. Albania is already in NATO and attracting the highest investments in the western balkans.

Wake up and smell what's cooking!!!

Let's all move on and make some money, we will be in the same country again when we are in the EU.

PS: The most dissapointing thing in all of this is that I am yet to read a Serb post saying, "What Serb troops did in Kosova and Bosnia is terrible. The rape, pillage and mass murder" You saw the Scorpions Tape. That's what your police and army did. I saw it with my own eyes. And still no remorse. And you want us to be Serbian citizens? Never!

Someone above wrote:
"We Serbians are principled and proud people and if it takes 500 years to remove this occupation then so be it"

The attitude of "we Serbians are proud" has the not so subtle implication that the rest of the people around you, like the Croats, Bosniaks, Albanians, Romanians, etc., are not proud. It is precisely this mentality of being superior, and better than your neighbors, which caused Serbia to fall on its nose time and again. For as long as this attitude is reflected in the widespread public opinion of Serbia, not only will there never be peace in the Balkans, but Serbia will continue to be on the losing side. I think it is time you stopped looking at yourself as superior people, and realize that you are just another Balkan nation!

To Nemanja you are right but is the opposite because the serbian are the one who have been tenants and occupied our land for centuries but now is time to get it back.And as for Greece thank you soon they will also accept our independent country the same happened with Macedonia and Montenegro first passports now even they gave the dates when they will formaly accept independence of KOsova.To Jeff.D thank for explaining to others the reality of Kosova.

Assume that you own a 3 bedroom condo. You've been renting one of the smaller bedrooms to someone. That someone invites their family and friends to live in that room.

Suddenly these tenants demand that you give them that room based on that they have been there for some time and there are more of than you.
(Nemanja, Connecticut, 19 September 2008 18:25)
It is exactly what Serbs did in 7 century. They came to work in Balkans and later kicked all Balkan People out of their property and “legally” became landlord of Balkans. It is true as you describe. It can happen.

To Serbs.

Haven't you heard the expression: Do not trust the Greeks?
Otherwise you'll end up with a Trojan Horse!!

I see some coments made here about history. It that a Serbian way of looking into history. Hole world knows that Ilyrians are the first of Albanians that lived in that area since the civilization of Balkan is known. Everyone know from where the slavic people came from!!! If historicly we look, we have in antic times fight with greek people together until newdays. Greece did good with recognizing of passports, this shows their interest for peace in Balkans. Serbia cannot push 2 milion people to live with them against their will. For the comment of Albanians from Kosovo going to Greece.Personaly I dont know any Kosovar living or working in Greece. There much much larger number of Serbs there.

To all greeks,
I think this is it, your government which is a democratic one, just told you that Kosova is going to be recognized soon.
Greeks have more in common with Albanians, than Serbs.. face it.. many greeks have Albanian blood or related to Albania, as well as many Albanians have greek ancestory..
Slavs are new in the balkans and that's a fact.

The Greeks should be ashamed of themselves. I have reading some history and I read that Croats fought with the Serbs in Kosovo. How could this be?

Myabe one day the Serbs and Croats will come to their senses and split Bosnia in two.

Greece did about all it could do during the 1990s to support the Serbs. Surely, you didn't expect them to support Milosevic. Even the Serbs disowned him. And you didn't expect the Greeks to give military support either.

Greece took a lot of diplomatic heat for their support of the Serbs in the 1990s.

How did Serbia repay Greece? Well, by first suing it, and then taking Macedonia's side in the name battle.

I fail to see why Greece should respect Serbia's sensitivities when, after supporting Serbia as best they could in the 1990s, Serbia turned right around and stabbed Greece in the back.

Food for thought.

Greece has finally seen the light. This is the first step towards full recognition as Athens cannot ignore reality.

:) The passport means nothing without a visa. Clearly, your celebrations are miss-placed. As for Greece recognising Kosovo...I don't think so. They'd have to recognise the occupied part of Cyprus as independent. This is not going to happen. As for joining the EU, well again Cyprus will block you. Those who have no hope will clutch at any ray of light. Oh well, enjoy it.

Jeff,

Assume that you own a 3 bedroom condo. You've been renting one of the smaller bedrooms to someone. That someone invites their family and friends to live in that room.

Suddenly these tenants demand that you give them that room based on that they have been there for some time and there are more of than than you.

You complain to your condo board but they do nothing about it. You try to retain your bedroom but the condo board stops you.

How would you feel and what would you do?

Would you just accept it because the condo board said so or would you try to get your rightful room back?

to nikitas:
Whe exactly did the Albanians arrive in the Balkans 'cause there is no mention of that. Albanians have been living in the Balkans for thousands of years.
All that talk about Albanians being related to Caucasus people (Azerbaijanis if I'm not mistaken) is a stupidity since Azerbaijan language is closely related to Turkish and Turksih is no Indo-European language unlike Albanian. And believe me you have things in common with the Albanians. One of them is that there are almost no blond Albanians and Greeks.

I feel bad for people of serbia who counted Greece and Russia as their friends. Time is showing that the only best friend of Serbians are Serbians themselves.
(uli, 19 September 2008 15:31)
--
The Russian and Greek people will always be friends of Serbians even though both turned a blind eye when NATO bombed and murdered our civilians. Serbians see that as a weakness of their respective governments and not a sign of the people turning against us.

The recognition of passports is by no means recognition of the country and it seems that under extreme pressure that is the compromise those countries (Greece, Macedonia and Montenegro) had to make.

People like Jeff obviously have no idea what being Serbian means. There was a time when siding with the NAZIs with all of its might seemed like the winning bet but history proved that wrong. We Serbians are principled and proud people and if it takes 500 years to remove this occupation then so be it but Serbia will never recognise Kosovo and that is that. Nothing more needs to be said.

However, I'm sure that I'll see this occupation off Serbian land with their tails behind their legs in my lifetime. Just like the Ottomans and NAZIs, so will NATO be evicted. The might of the US has already peaked and there is absolutely no chance it can outdo the 3 billion people (in Russia, India, China, Brazil) ready to take the crown. Our friends are getting stronger day by day so it is just a matter of time.

To Jeff. D:

I think your comments are jibberish! How can you ask the Serbs not to get emotional about Kosovo when it is the birthplace of the nation. We have an ethnic minority that has rebelled against the central authority with the help of foreign governments who are hell bent on getting their hands on the natural resources of Kosovo. Show me one country that would accept the amputation of 15% of it's territory. Oh, and please don't spurt the usual "Serbia lost the right to Kosovo when it mistreated the albanians" because using this logic Germany would today be a Jewish state and Turkey would be a Kurdish state! What about the Anglo-Saxon treatment of the native Indians of America??!!

This passports are not just to travel abroad, more than anything else they are a prof of identity of a citizen.
In this case they are a prof of ID of citizens from the Republic of Kosovo and inportant countries are recognizing this inmportant documents. ICJ its a really good thing for the K-albanians because after its verdict Serbia will have no reasons not to recognise Kosovo. I'm saying this because Serbia will accept ISJs verdict no matter what.

"PS: The most disappointing thing in all of this is that I am yet to read a Serb post saying, "What Serb troops did in Kosova and Bosnia is terrible. The rape, pillage and mass murder" You saw the Scorpions Tape. That's what your police and army did. I saw it with my own eyes. And still no remorse. And you want us to be Serbian citizens? Never!"
(Prince of Albania, 19 September 2008 19:53)

thank you, Prince -- i have brought up this point so many times, but it always seems to fall on deaf ears, at least on this site. but i do believe there are serb individuals that feel great remorse for these horrible atrocities, and some are even brave enough to say so, publicly.

anyway, i PROmised to stay positive when we have these celebratory days (pro independence.) i never tire of sayig it: So, thank you, Greece. i've never considered you the "enemy," -- why should i? i've always loved the greeks that i've met, who generally have gone out of their way to be warm and inviting, and i mean that in many different ways...

somehow we need to stay positive, and not get caught up in all of the bitterness, hate and negativity. it isn't easy, believe me!! but let us try.

thank you Greece, now and forever. and good tidings to all of our frnds and and pro-democracy allies around the globe, whatever your location or ethnicity.
we are all one world.

wage peace, not war.

robert-o
robertoruss@yahoo.com

Florin

"It is precisely this mentality of being superior, and better than your neighbors, which caused Serbia to fall on its nose time and again. For as long as this attitude is reflected in the widespread public opinion of Serbia, not only will there never be peace in the Balkans, but Serbia will continue to be on the losing side. I think it is time you stopped looking at yourself as superior people, and realize that you are just another Balkan nation!"

Well said. You nailed it on the head.

Ako

@ skeptic; Macedonia is expecting liberalisation of Visa scheme in 2009... then you will see mass dumping of Bulgarian passports! Your observation is malicious ( I think ), you couldn't be that ignorant.

Hey nik...have you heard of the saying "Smrt ili Sloboda"? Have you heard of the Ilinden Uprising in Krushevo 1903 ? How about a visit to the Millenium monument in Krusevo where you can educate yourself on MACEDONIAN history!!!

Have you heard of the Kresna Uprising in Eastern Macedonia against the Blgari??? (circa 1880's) No...? Then DO YOURSELF A FAVOR AND EDUCATE YOURSELF!!

The first MACEDONIAN DIOCESE is currently being unearthed in the Lence/Gradiste region of Tetovo! Three basilicas, a temple, three baptismals!
Circa 4th to 5th Century AD! Found in the largest basilica... TWO MACEDONIAN SUNS... THE LARGEST WITH 16 RAYS, THE SMALLER WITH 8. This is one of many, many proofs of the ethnic MACEDONIAN history on the territory of MACEDONIA ( not "Greek", not Serbian, not Bulgarian... MACEDONIAN)!!

I could give you countless proofs, but it really is disappointing when none of it matters! This is why Balkans is a mess... everyone has a primitive agenda...hates everyone else, you know 'you are our problem'...EXCEPT THE MACEDONIANS, who just want to get on with life! We're sick and tired of all of your petty little power struggles! How dare you deny our beingness, then turn around and thieve portions of our heritage and history, in order to enrich yourselves at our expense!

Impressive. Greece should lobby Cyprus.

I don't know where this announcement came from since there is no confirmation from
the Greek foreign ministry.
Only last week the Greek foreign minister,at her meeting with Jeremy,repeated that Greece will not recognise Kosovo for
the forseeable future.My guess is that if the above announcement holds true it will probably be connected to the new EU directive for visa free travelling for citizens of non-EU Balkan countries.
It could also be a move to stop all the illegal Albanian
immigration to Greece.

AS a Greek myself, I'm very disapointed by this decision of Greece. The Greek people and the Greek Church stand firmly behind the Serbs in their efforts to preserve Kosovo as part of Serbia (albeit as an autonomous, Albanian enclave). This is why Greece will NEVER officially recognize Kosovo as an independent country. It would be political suiside for any of our politicians to do so.

However, the pressure Greece is under from the US with regards to the Macedonia issue and Cyprus (and Greece's efforts to secure visa free travel to the US) have caused our government to make this decision. All of this becomes evident if you read between the lines of what our Foreighn Minister has been saying.

Thank you Greece,

Finally it seems that everybody in the Balkans is coming to their senses after a period of hysteria and nightmare feelings about Kosova. Macedonia and Montenegro will eventually recognize Kosova as a independent state. Such moves were preceded by passport recognitions which means Greece is charting through the same waters and with Bosnia split along the etnic lines in terms of Kosova recognition, Serbia will self-isolate itself in the neighborhood that is living.
To Nemanja: The Jews got their land after 3000 long years...Kosova is getting what the others, Serbs included, already have. Denying that again and you will see no future....
The Illyrian Eagle

@ Burek i Baklava; quote,"...Greece is in NATO and did nothing to stop the bombing of Serbia"... exactly!

I find it interesting that many Serbs tend to forgive Greece for every successive betrayal. They'll say - and I've seen comments like the following on this blog - "Thanks Greece, we know you did everything in your power to help us, but there was nothing else you could do! We understand..."

On the other hand, the Greek Government showed how nasty they can be when it comes to protecting the lies that cement the modern Greek nation together, with vetoing MACEDONIA's Nato accession. Mis-using the "name issue" with MACEDONIA in order to deflect internal Greek Govt. scandals, raise the Govt.s popularity etc. is one thing, but going out on a limb to help their "Orthodox brothers", the Serbs, is quite another! Whereas MACEDONIA's name is an issue of Greek vanity, the bombing of Serbia was one of human lives, billions of dollars in livelihoods, Serb infrastructure etc.

The comments from "Greeks", on this article alone, bristle with resentment at the Greek perception of Serbian betrayal regarding MACEDONIA.
The fact is, the only thing that matters to "Greeks" is getting enough people onside to force a name change onto MACEDONIA!

I think the question the MACEDONIAN Govt. asked the Kosovo Alb.s; "under which name will you refer to us as?", was a simple ploy to see the Kosovo position. It's been revealed that Taci's Govt. was under extreme pressure to refer to us under the acronym, and its obvious where that has come from. The Greeks recognising the Kosovo passport is, no doubt, something the Kos. Alb.s have extracted in return! As always, we are a pawn in all of our neighbors' intrigues!

Some of you people are really funny. There is enough material here to publish a book of jokes and make it a best seller:

@14
"I think that there is a clear rationale and explanation here. ...//...in return for accepting Kosovo passports (but not full recognition), the EU presidency throws its full weight behind Greece on the name issue."
And why exactly we waited for this long, since Sarkozy himself on the first days of France's presidency, some months ago, openly sided with us and already did so in Bucharest too? I love rational explanations :)

@21
"Haven't you heard the expression: Do not trust the Greeks?"
Actually noone has ever heard of that expression. What we have heard is "fear the Danaans bearing gifts" which is a whole world different than what you say and alsowhat you mean. Because if you think about it, it shouldbe you that should be afraid and not the Serbs.

@19
"Greece has finally seen the light."
We are in the light for sometime now, it seems that others are still in the dark.

@22
"Hole world knows that Ilyrians are the first of Albanians that lived in that area since the civilization of Balkan is known."
Only albanians know that. The rest of the world knows that Illyrians and albanians have nothing in common.

"If historicly we look, we have in antic times fight with greek people together until newdays."
If you look at the past until nowadays, you will se that albanians were always fighting against the Greeks, from the time you came here until recently.

@23
"Greeks have more in common with Albanians, than Serbs.. face it.."
True, we have borders with albania but not with Serbia. Other than that, we have nothing in common with albanians.

Seriously now. D.Bakoyanni said a few days ago, meeting Jeremic:
"We believe that its presence (EULEX) will contribute to stability and security in the region. It’s presence must not be linked to the issue of Kosovo’s status. Greece’s participation certainly does not imply recognition."
So as you can see there is no such thing as a recognition visible in the near future for Greece. And I will also give you another parameter. You Serbs should look with a half eye towards your fellow Slavs (Bosnia, Croatia, Fyrom, etc) for their moves towards Kossovo and stop being dissapointed in Greece. Greece has proven that it stands by the one that is on the right. Your brothers abandoned you, not us. And if I really can understand your stance towards Fyromian name issue, since you are all Slav brothers, at the same time you had to chose between brothers and friends and I really understand the tough choice, you cant go around and blame us for something that hasnt actually happened yet (UDI recognition) and it is not going to happen anytime soon.
First be straight with us nad then complain for any decisions we make (which we havent).
As for the albanians in here. Dont rejoyce. Nothing happened actually. This is not a recognition of a state, it is a recognition of travel documents that we had to do, under the new directive of "open borders in the Balkans" policy and has nothing to do with you or your state.
It is so easy to twist things and present them as a diplomatic or other kind of victory when it isnt, that it gets frightening sometimes. Next thing we will hear is that Kossovans are albanians.....

xcuse me but our friends Serbs aren't those who recognize first above every country the FYROM as "Macedonia"?

Do u know how the Greeks felt when u did that?

We was on your side during the wars even if all the rest of the world wasn't.

So,u better don't talk about Greek/Serbian friendship when u never stand to our side.

Speaking of Serbia... A Serb here said that the villages of the Romanians in the Timok valley look a lot better than Romanian villages even though Serbia is not a EU member and Romania is. True indeed. Let me tell you something about Romania. Romania's population is twice that of Serbia which makes Romania a larger market and therefore more attractive to foreign investors than Serbia. This year we have an economic growth of 8.8% and the year hasn't ended yet.
On a different note: we have dozens of Romanian televisions. How many Serbian televisions do you have? We have 3 news tv's (the US has only two, CNN and FOX News), 3 tv's for women, at least 3 sport tv's (one of the stations is threefold, like EuroSport and EuroSport2 only this has 3 channels, not 2), a cultural channel, a movie channel (like HBO), 1 or 2 music channels (I am not sure whether one of them is Romanian or it's the Romanian version of a foreign channel) and 10-15 general tv's. There are 2 tv channels in the making: TVR3 and TVR Info. We don't have kids channels though, we only have Romanian versions of foreign kids tv's.

nik:
I was not referring to you. I was referring to bmrusila. As I said twice before I met Romanians from the Timok valley who called themselves Romanians, not Vlach, not Serbs. You are not well informed on this issue.

Greece will never recognise Kosovo as indepedent unless our friends Serbs tell us to do so.
Greece will never allow Kosovo to join the EU unless it's IN Serbia.
End of story about Greece and Kosovo.

we're disappointed,but we know what greek people feels for serbs (proved so many times),so we're not angry with you...it's all politics... jeff,and ZOKI BG -good point of views!

It is a fact that we greeks have more in common with albanians then serbs. We been sharing the culture with them for at least 3000 years ,, long before slavs came to balkans. Albanians are our friend as serbs. We support both of them

This is no big deal actually. Accepting Prisitna's passports is NOT equivalent to recognition of Kosovo AS A COUNTRY. Far from it.

Look at China and Taiwan. Most countries recognize Taiwan as part of China but they accept Taiwanese passports too.

After reading many comments, I feel I should write a bit about Kosovo. Kosovo Albanians from 1974 till late eighties had the most wide autonomy given to a minority in the world. Kosovo had its own government, parliament, flag and a representative in the 8 member collective presidency. Apart from the penal code, the Pristina parliament had to approve all the Serbian laws before applie. The official documents were translated in different languages (SerboCroat, Albanian,Turk). The government of Kosovo made even official visits to other countries. It had the right to decide on the allocation of money given by the fund for underdeveloped areas. It decided on the context of education textbooks. The names of the streets in Pristina were in Albanian. The Albanian pupils were taught in their mother language till they went to the university and then only they may had some classes in SerboCroat in some objects. The quota system guaranteed the dominance of Albanians at the public sector. Despite te fact that Kosovo progressed as being part of Yugoslavia (in 1945 the majority of the population were illiterate and extremely poor) and having so many rights, the Kosovo Albanians revolted in 1981 although they were not suppressed. An honest evaluation would indicate that Kosovo Albanians benefited from being Yugoslav citizens. In nineties the Kosovo Albanians were suppressed and stripped from their rights. But I have to note that a) in independent Kosovo the Serb minority in peaceful time is much more suppressed (Orthodox temples destroyed, Serbs killed or prosecuted and their property taken etc) and the attitude of Albanians amounts effectively to ethnic cleansing. b) In 1998 Serbia used violence against civilians and moved internally Albanian villagers in order to crack down KLA. Leaving aside that this is a practice of many governments (Turkey, Iraq under Saddam against Kurd guerillas, military government of Guatemala against opponents etc.), it must be said that KLA also attacked and killed Serb civilians and Albanians who had different view and did not support Kosovo secession. KLA attacked deliberately even civilians, hoping to escalate the conflict and provide the pretext for western military intervention. I just remember that Karla Del Ponte (who definitely does not sympathize the Serb side) at her book wrote that the KLA guerillas extracted the organs of Serb prisoners and later sold them. KLA obviously was a fascist type liberation movement similar to prewar Ustashi.
Now about the comment of Dimitar. Unfortunately almost all the Balkan countries are USA colonies at the moment, including FYROM. FYROM, Albania, Bulgaria even sent troops participating at the illegal occupation of Iraq. I am glad Greece did not. I am also proud that the majority of the Greek population objected to the illegal (without UN approval) aggressions against Iraq (2003), Yugoslavia (1999). However, the Greek governments usually do not dare to stand against powerful countries against USA, although it is naïve to believe that any member of NATO could have vetoed the decision of USA and the major European countries to attack Yugoslavia. USA would go ahead unilaterally as they did in 2003 against Iraq.
But honestly I find the attitude of our neighbours difficult to grasp. Macedonia geographically is occupied by 3 countries (Greece, Bulgaria, FYROM). So, they can not use exclusively the term Macedonians, because the inhabitants at other parts of Macedonia are also Macedonians (Greek Macedonians, Bulgarian Macedonians). Our neighbours have no relation with ancient Macedonia. A fair assessment would be to call themselves SlavMacedonians. Besides, it is a mystery when and how the Macedonian nation was formed and the mainly agricultural population developed national consciousness , bearing in mind that: a) In Macedonia there were many dialects which were a mixture between SerboCroat and Bulgarian languages, depending on the location (close to Bulgaria or Serbia). Only after 1945 the local dialect was given the status of language. All the Orthodox Christian nations had their own Churches in 19th century (Greece, Serbia, Bulgaria). Macedonian Church was formed in 1967 after state intervention by the communist authorities. VMRO had the slogan “Macedonia to Macedonians”, but this was a slogan of the socialists who advocated a federation in order to avoid bloody wars among national states and the transfer of populations that accompanied them. It is not a proof that there was a Macedonian nation at that period. VMRO disintegrated to an instrument of Bulgarian propaganda after the first world war. The fact that even today many Slav Macedonians (including the former priminister and leader of VMRO) obtained Bulgarian citizenship indicates that many people there do not have a distinct national identity.

I think that there is a clear rationale and explanation here. Bakoyiannis met with Kouchner today, who expressed clear support for Greece's position on FYROM. In other words, it could well have been the case that in return for accepting Kosovo passports (but not full recognition), the EU presidency throws its full weight behind Greece on the name issue. Expect to see FYROM come under a lot of EU pressure to cut a deal in the near future.

http://www.mfa.gr/www.mfa.gr/Articles/en-US/19092008_SB1856.htm

uli

"I feel bad for people of serbia who counted Greece and Russia as their friends. Time is showing that the only best friend of Serbians are Serbians themselves."


I don't think you are as disappointed as I am for this evidently hard decision of the Greeks. But after all Greece is a small European country and a member of both NATO & EU. Who knows what was the price of such a hostile step ? Besides it looks rather like a compromise coz no recognition of the Snake is discussed. Time will show what this strange decision will lead to.

As for Russia the Serbs have nothing to worry about. Even after they twice have voted the pro-Brussels coalition Russia has not turned away. Outside Serbia there are no forces able to spoil our brotherhood. And this is what Serbs have to take care of. Even if the rest of the world turns away Russia alone is able to provide the prosperity and peace in Serbia.

We are too busy with two urgent problems now trying to bar ourselves from the world crisis and to minimize the sequences of the US attack in Georgia. It won’t take long and very soon we’ll be back to the Serbian stage. They have been treating both us so unjust and so long that we cannot afford forgiving them. Whatever they say it is Russia who will punish the West but not the opposite. We have such tools while the West has got only bare anger and frustrated dreams of the past.

Greece was in Nato, when Nato bombed Serbia. Greece had the power to veto Nato's decisions about Macedonia entering it over a stupid name issue two months ago. But it didn't veto the decision of bombing Serbia, back in 1999. Talk about friendship...

Romanian: "Speaking of Serbia... A Serb here said that the villages of the Romanians in the Timok valley look a lot better than Romanian villages even though Serbia is not a EU member and Romania is. True indeed."

I said that and I am not a Serb! The contex of it was that there is no "Romanian" question in Serbia. Romanian speaking people there are with strong Serbian national consciousness and hate being called "Vlah".
True Romania and Bulgaria that were far behind Serbia and in some restects still are have a happier present and somewhat brighter future. And Serbs have only themselves to blame! To preserve themselves from future seperatist movements (such as a possible Romanian one, not to mention Hungarian, "Muslim' etc. they hadve just to let Kosovo go! Some Serbs here express opinion that they would be happy to keep Kosovo even if K-Albanians get 20+% of the seats of the parliament. They have no idea how unwise that is. Well it is enough to look at the Macedonian political scene!

sceptic: Besides, it is a mystery when and how the Macedonian nation was formed and the mainly agricultural population developed national consciousness.

No mystery at all> The strong age old Bulgarian consciousness was ruthlessly uprooted during Royal Yugoslavia. All the inteligentsia, down to the last village teacher or prist was exiled, "reeducated" or worse. During WWII the Bulgarian pro-nazi autorities, expelled the Serb administration, but sisnce the old refugees did not return home, they appointed adminsitration from Bulgaria that was not always sensitive to the locals. So they accepted the communist proposal to be Macedonian -neither Serbs nor Bulgarians. But the new generations born and bred as Macedonians this was not enough. So the believe they descend from Alexander!