Greek lawyers offer Karadžić gratis help

Thank you, my Greek brothers and fellow Orthodox, for wanting to defend a man that the West wants to humiliate and pre-judge. I am so tired, ad naseum, of the media calling Karadjic a "butcher", or "mastermind of genocide" against the Muslims. WHEN is the TRUTH going to come out that 1992-95 there was a CIVIL war in Bosna where Karadjic was simply the leader and defender of the Bosnian Serbs- who had just as much right to their lands as did the Muslims or Croats. Comparisons of Karadjic to German Nazi genocide make me sick- although that's exactly what the West wants us to believe- even before the trial. The Hague Tribunal is a farce and a circus- yet I hope and pray that with the help of our Greek friends (who the West seems to give more respect and credibility to than the "lowly" Serbs), the world will be given the opportunity to judge "unbiasedly" the "reality" of Karadjic's leadership and actions in leading his Bosnian Serbs against Western responsibility (through propoganda and agendas) for the Bosnian War.
As a footnote....it's a shame that not one Western reporting agency has mentioned the fact that Karadjic, during his last 8 days in Belgrade confinement, prepared himself for his upcoming trial by observing a strict Orthodox fast and Holy Communion given by Metropolitan Amphilohije of the Serbian Church. I guess that piousness and measurement of a man is irrelevant to the Western media.

Greece should do more to help Karadzic and Serbia, rather than allow some individual lawers to help him in the Hague, as it did during the bosnian war.

Greece should cooperate with Russia, in order to prevent the further recognition of the illegal mafia state of Kosovo, by putting as much political and diplomatic pressure internationally as they can.

And help Serbia, economically and diplomatically in their struggle agaisnst this artificial mafia puppet-country.

The Greek plan of the reconstruction of the Balkans (about 1 billion $) should all go to serbian hands, rather than separated to other balkan countries. It is unacceptable for Greece to give her money, even to hostile artificial countries (like FYROM) and not to her real friend that it needs them - Serbia that is.

The ICTY is an illegal body set up by the US and NATO to try people for crimes committed in former Yugoslavia.Only UN members have the authority to set up ans ad-hoc tribunal.
Iam still waiting to see any UN evidence of the alleged atrocities that took place.
The ICTY in the Hague has also failed to produce any evidence of genocide in Bosnia.The Dutch troops that arrived in Sebrenica at the time of the alleged attrocities didn't find any signs of massacre.On the other hand there was little media coverage for the crimes that Alija Izetbegovic and Naser Oric on the Serbs.More than 4000 Serbs were slaughtered by Oric.He was sentenced into
two years imprisonment and he is currentle appaling against his sentence.
The same lies that US and its allies produced in Bosnia & Kosovo were also reproduced in Iraq and Afganistan.
The break-up of Yugoslavia was planned by the west in order to incorporate all its
parts into western global vision of the world and to secure the energy corridors for EU-Atlantic multinationals.

He's going to need all of the help he can get.

Whether he's guilty, and to what degree, or whether he's more or less guilty than other leaders during the Bosnian War seems irrelevant.

It has been decided, as it was with Milosevic, that he is guilty even before the case begins. And there is no way that the ICTY will ignore public and political pressure to find him guilty.

While I agree that he should be tried and that all victims of the horrendous wars in Yugoslavia deserve justice, I have no faith that the ICTY is not completely politically driven.

Thankfully the ICJ has so far not been hijacked by a few powerful countries. All nations still have a voice there, and the power to implement decisions. Roll on September.

Kate,

I agree with you that he should be tried. However, I disagree with your comment that "It has been decided, as it was with Milosevic, that he is guilty even before the case begins." For some people it is already known whether they're guilty or not. I am a strong advocate of death penalty, and it's a shame these people like Milosevic and Karadzic get a life sentence in a very nicely furnished cell in sponsoring countries for prisoners. You just know. While I support the stance that all suspects should be innocent until proven guilty, for some you just know they're guilty and the trial is only a formality.
Now, on the other issue. "Greek lawyers are offering free help to Karadzic". Can anyone tell my why I am not surprised? Well, fellow men from the greek orthodox church. Close to Independence of Kosovo, all Serb politicians (except SRS) ruled out force as a tool to regain Kosovo, even Kostunica surprisingly. There was only one Serb figure who said that Serbs should take up arms against Albanians: Bishop Artemije of Prizren.

The serbs have only two friends, god and the greeks. =)

Greek on any lawyer of any nationality are free to help him defend, there is no question about it. I just don't know if they are trying to help him or they are doing a bit of marketing of their names.

Kate,

why do you have doubts on the ICT and their judgments, so far they have sentenced all the guilty parties and freed non giulty ones, Karadzic will be no different from them, if he is proven to be inocent thatthey will free him, but you know that he is guilty as Bin Laden.

To the Albanian from Pristina:

I don't know if you are albanian or any other but it is clear that you have no relation with history at all.

The whole world not only takes Greece's positions VERY seriously on the name dispute, but most countries agree with Greece. (Like France recently publically stated that FYROM must change it's name.)

Now about your claims that Macedonia was a part of the Ottoman Empire that is really true. As it is true that before that, it was a part of the Byzantine (Hellenic) Empire. As it is true that before that it was a part of the Roman Empire. As it is true, that before that it was a part of the Greek Kingdom of Macedonia, one of the most glorious Greek city-states.

The whole issue is that through centuries, macedonia geographically belonged to many owners. But when it was belonging to any other owner than Greek it was a CONQUERED land. Macedonia was always a part of the Greek culture, herritage and nation... no less than ancient Athens, Thebes, Ypirus or Sparta.

Macedonia means Greece and Greece means Macedonia. As Athens means Greece as Greece means Athens. This is how the greek nation is formed since the ancient times.

So you better open a history book finally...

This man has made it clear that he will speak for himself. He will represent himself. Is there a problem with that?

Free lawyers? This is really strange now, unheard of...

Chania is a city of the western Crete island while Heraklio is a city of its eastern part. Chania Βar Association had stated some weeks ago that Alekos Alavanos, (chief of the parliamentary group of the Radical Left Coalition "party" and member of the Greek Parliament, elected at the district of Heraklio, Crete) is a persona non grata in Chania because he is in favor of the creation of a Court of Appeal at Heraklio. Greasy localism and corporativism of the worst kind!
The specific association by its president Demetris Pondikakis has been offered to defend Karadjic gratis. "Pondikaki" in Greek means little mouse. I think that the little mice of the Chania Bar Association are just trying to pretend that they are little male cats...

Arben, I am totally at your side. One of the main factors in the struggle for Kosovo is the unity of the Orthodox Church in her fight against Muslems in Europe. They have some problems to remain united, if the question is reduced to Western- or Eastern-Europe, as this article of today shows: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/30/world/europe/30ukraine.html?ref=world

Known on the ground is the participation of Russian and Greek mercenaries in the cleansing of the region round Rahovec/Orohavac. I once made a comment according bishop Artemije, but it wasn't placed by B92. I think that it wasn't alowed to be sceptical of his words and deeds as a Christian.

So I am not wondering about the offer from the Greek side. I have a Greek friend whose opinion in general is opposite mine.

Cees

File Pavle,
I never spoke about the govt of Serbia, but about the people of Serbia. Political games and pressure is one thing, will of the people is another.
I stricktly talked about the people putting pressure on the govt. even in here, where they have no reason to call them by the recognised by Serbian govt name, they call them "macedonians". And you are asking me to wait? For what? No thanks, if I ever need friends like those, I rather turn to albanians. At least you know that they will stab you eventually, it will not be a surprise.

Nikitas, in the former yugoslavia, people fromthe yugoslavian part of macedonia always called those people macedonians, so its more of people in yugoslavia being brought up to call people from "fyrom" macedonians. Its more of a cultural things. Im convinced that its not just serbs or montenegrins (those two i know for sure) but bosnians, croatians, and slovenes that use the term because they were brought up to call them macedonians.

"As a footnote....it's a shame that not one Western reporting agency has mentioned the fact that Karadjic, during his last 8 days in Belgrade confinement, prepared himself for his upcoming trial by observing a strict Orthodox fast and Holy Communion given by Metropolitan Amphilohije of the Serbian Church. I guess that piousness and measurement of a man is irrelevant to the Western media."

You should be happy about that. Amphilohije also was at Karadzic mom's funeral and comapred her son to Krajl Marko. Trust me, it doesn't look good for your church in the west. Church and State are not mixed here.

The story of Karadjic, a "Crime and Punishment" of nowadays. Nothing more, nothing less than that. By the way what happened with the so many friends of Karadjic in Greece? Let's not mention top names who were poisoning the Greek public opinion and ridiculising the country abroad. They are either silent or they are using semi-words now. Finally Greek citizens are seeing the truth in front of them, the truth about Sarajevo, the truth about Srebrenica and the massacres of 8.000 muslim civilians. The number is horrible and doesn't leave any space for any set off or compensation of sums. Besides arguments of the kind "and you, you are torturing the niggers" will be Karadjic's defense at the court and was the legitimization base onto which he was loved by a part of the political-religious-journalist establishment in Greece. But since the era of Nuremberg trial set offs like these have no chances. Otherwise Goering and later on Eichman would be found innocent given the "argument" that the Alliants had smashed Leipsig...

To Nikita:

Nikita, apart from demanding things from friendly countries and accusing them, we should have thinked long ago we should have done or not.

During the declaration of the FYROM independence, Serbia was not just a country, but the motherland from which FYROM emerged. So If Serbia wouldn't have recognised FYROM, it would be like... declaring war to the new state that emerged from Yugoslavia and doesn't recognise it's actual independence! By taking that perspective into consideration, Serbia could not do otherwise. So I think Serbia is the last country we should accuse of recognising FYROM from the 100+ countries that have recognised them.

Serbia right now, is also in a difficult situation to lift the recognition of FYROM, as it would definetely mean that FYROM would recognise Kosovo straight away.

However if FYROM finally recognises Kosovo, then Serbia would be almost unacceptable not to lift the recognition of FYROM immediately.

It would be wrong for Serbia, to keep calling the pseudo-macedonian state "macedonia" if FYROM recognises Kosovo. Then I would agree with you about your comments about Serbia. But so far - because of the situation I explained to you - I don't think anyone can agree with you.

So let's see, how Serbia will react if FYROM recognise Kosovo and then judge them.

Pavlos, Nikitas

Let’s for the moment forget the game played by the politicians and focus on what people think and wish. However, I will just mention that this government has no courage to revoke its recognition of FRYOM after FRYOM’s possible recognition of Kosovo. This government is to weak and full of chickens. Honestly speaking if they did it I would applaud them for that move.

Now, about people’s opinion in general I am not aware. By calling Fryomians Macedonians is just a habit (taking into consideration that we lived for more than 50 years together) and absolutely has nothing to do with being mean to Greeks. Most of people do not think about the dispute between Greeks and Fryomians over the name. I don’t know whether Greeks should be insulted if some Serb unintentionally name Fryomians after Macedonians, but I do understand your anger. I think Nikitas you are a bit harsh when saying that Serbs are ready to stab you when you do not expect, but I am sure (or want to believe) that your claims are bit exaggerative. One of the reasons for not having this dispute over the name in our minds is simply because we have way too many problems to think about.

However, I personally support Greek’s efforts to solve the problem and think that Greeks have all the rights insisting on the change of the name. I would be too, as I am already angered by the intentions of some ethnicities to assume something that clearly do not belong to them. I am angered by the certain ethnicities’ aspirations towards the other’s culture and land. In this particular case, Albanians and Fryomians have very much in common; faking the historical facts, assuming the historical characters of other countries as their own, land greediness and so on, the list would be long.

Ok, I am getting a bit upset with this "friendship" and "brotherhood" thing.
I am also getting upset with the "Orthodox brothers" and religious stupidity connection thing.

Why am I saying all these?
Because if you were our "brothers" and "only friends" and all those wonderful things, then you should have already put pressure to your goverment not to be among the first to recognise the puppet state of Fyrom, or you should put pressure on them now to change their position on the issue like Panama officialy did last week.
Or is it "friends when we are in need" and other than that nothing?

Whenever i have expressed my opinion that happened to be the same as the Serbs, it is not because of my big love for that nation, but because I feel it is right. My position on Kossovo for example, is because of my view on the issue and not because I prefer Serbs over albanians (I do, but thats for other reasons).
Anyways, I know in my life that REAL friends do not betray their "friends" and "brothers". Unless I have lived my life wrong for so many years.

On the lawyers issue now.
They are a small firm. Imagine, this hasnt even made the news here on the volume that it should. And that is because it is common feeling here that they are doing it for publicity mostly. On the other hand, if the man is guilty, it can only be AFTER the court's judgement and not before as it happens now.
I get sick of the atrocities described that were supposedly done after his orders, but I also get really sick when anyone talks about an accused and not convicted person like that: butcher, nazi, Menghele, etc etc.

Oh Arben, I forgot to tell you that I am against the death-penalty.

Cees

"Iam still waiting to see any UN evidence of the alleged atrocities that took place"
(Leonidas, 30 July 2008 17:38)

You must be joking right?....
there's videos all over youtube showing them,or I better say go ask your cousins that wawed Greek flag in Sarajevo when they were helping him.

Nikitas and Pavlos,

It really bewilders me to hear you make such petty statements about the "name game" thing concerning the Republic of Macedonia without being the least bit embarrassed. But then again, considering the nation you come from, Greece, it is clear that your ideas are heavily influenced by your gov't. You may not realize it, living in Greece, but the rest of the world is laughing at your country for making such an issue over a simple thing as a name. BTW, the Rep. of Macedonia was only recently, and not for very long, a part of Serbia. Before that, like Greece and Serbia, the Rep.of Macedonia was part of the Ottoman Empire for nearly 500 years. What on earth is contained in your school history books!

I would firstly like to say that i respect the lawyers from hania. For several reasons and will try to number some of them.
The most important reason is that Karadzic is serb. Throught the centuries serbs were the only ally that Greeks could ever count on...mainly beacause of religion and secondly cause of mutuall interests. The same think applies between albania and turkey. If you take a close look in the politics during or after every balkan conflict you can see that muslim countries always line up and support other muslim countries. So please, any people that disagree with this stop and think first and be truthful! Religion is a major "player" in modern day conflicts.


My second thought or point that would like to make is that, that court is not a proper court... Its a court that U.S.A and its allies drag their opponents. Nothing else , nothing more. I havent seen so far an american or an ally of them getting trialed in there.If an opponent of U.S.A was seeding the whole world with deepleted uranium i am sure that he would be draged there for crimes against humanity. What would happen if serbia bombed buildings with civilians in them during the bosnian war or any other war? The would be CRIMINALS.... but americans just name it Colateral damage if it comes from there side. Or just think what would happen if another country was operating Guantanamo prison treating people like that.

So please, you can allign yourself with any side you want but be truthful. That is not a proper non-biased court and that person deserves all the help we can give him.

Looking for free advertisement for their law firm.

And by the way, "Christian brotherhood" it is not a religious bond but a political one.

Just look at the "love" coming from the Greeks and the Macedonians (or Skopians if worry about the name).

Religion is just a political tool. When it is convenient we swear by it.

@bmrusila

"I think Nikitas you are a bit harsh when saying that Serbs are ready to stab you when you do not expect, but I am sure (or want to believe) that your claims are bit exaggerative."

I never said Serbs would stab you at the back, but yes, I was exxagerating to show my anger.

Of course there are cultural ties and long standing relations between you and the fyromians, after all they are also Serbs and Slavs in general, exept the albanians. But this cant stop me from getting upset, in the way I posted at the first place. My heritage and history and past is being stolen day after day here and I feel i have every right to feel this way :)

I don't know if you are albanian or any other but it is clear that you have no relation with history at all.

The whole world not only takes Greece's positions VERY seriously on the name dispute, but most countries agree with Greece. (Like France recently publically stated that FYROM must change it's name.)

Now about your claims that Macedonia was a part of the Ottoman Empire that is really true. As it is true that before that, it was a part of the Byzantine (Hellenic) Empire. As it is true that before that it was a part of the Roman Empire. As it is true, that before that it was a part of the Greek Kingdom of Macedonia, one of the most glorious Greek city-states.

The whole issue is that through centuries, macedonia geographically belonged to many owners. But when it was belonging to any other owner than Greek it was a CONQUERED land. Macedonia was always a part of the Greek culture, herritage and nation... no less than ancient Athens, Thebes, Ypirus or Sparta.

Macedonia means Greece and Greece means Macedonia. As Athens means Greece as Greece means Athens. This is how the greek nation is formed since the ancient times.

So you better open a history book finally...
(Pavlos, 30 July 2008 22:56)
Dear Pavlos,
That was a well synopsis of the Greek history school books taught in elementary schools. You skiped though the parts where Metaxa's Commisions in 1936 changed the names from Slavic to Neo-Greek of more than 70% of the towns and villages in the province of Macedonia. Why the majority of the names of the towns in Macedonia (the province) would have been slavic if the owners where greeks? Was there any slavic invasion or conquer of Macedonia? Please enlighten us (the uneducated albanians)! What your elementary school history books say about that?

Dear Niko although I don't want to mock other peoples' education or lack of thereof I'd suggest you study some history books. Ever heard of the slavic invasions of Balkans during the early middle ages? Or the state of Dusan that for a brief period extended even to mainland Greece? There is no doubt there was a big slavic element in Greece and that Metaxas' regime forced a 'hellenization' of many things. That was all there was to it though, it was slavic not 'macedonian'.

Greek on any lawyer of any nationality are free to help him defend, there is no question about it. I just don't know if they are trying to help him or they are doing a bit of marketing of their names.

Kate,

why do you have doubts on the ICT and their judgments, so far they have sentenced all the guilty parties and freed non giulty ones, Karadzic will be no different from them, if he is proven to be inocent thatthey will free him, but you know that he is guilty as Bin Laden.

The story of Karadjic, a "Crime and Punishment" of nowadays. Nothing more, nothing less than that. By the way what happened with the so many friends of Karadjic in Greece? Let's not mention top names who were poisoning the Greek public opinion and ridiculising the country abroad. They are either silent or they are using semi-words now. Finally Greek citizens are seeing the truth in front of them, the truth about Sarajevo, the truth about Srebrenica and the massacres of 8.000 muslim civilians. The number is horrible and doesn't leave any space for any set off or compensation of sums. Besides arguments of the kind "and you, you are torturing the niggers" will be Karadjic's defense at the court and was the legitimization base onto which he was loved by a part of the political-religious-journalist establishment in Greece. But since the era of Nuremberg trial set offs like these have no chances. Otherwise Goering and later on Eichman would be found innocent given the "argument" that the Alliants had smashed Leipsig...

Nikitas and Pavlos,

It really bewilders me to hear you make such petty statements about the "name game" thing concerning the Republic of Macedonia without being the least bit embarrassed. But then again, considering the nation you come from, Greece, it is clear that your ideas are heavily influenced by your gov't. You may not realize it, living in Greece, but the rest of the world is laughing at your country for making such an issue over a simple thing as a name. BTW, the Rep. of Macedonia was only recently, and not for very long, a part of Serbia. Before that, like Greece and Serbia, the Rep.of Macedonia was part of the Ottoman Empire for nearly 500 years. What on earth is contained in your school history books!

Kate,

I agree with you that he should be tried. However, I disagree with your comment that "It has been decided, as it was with Milosevic, that he is guilty even before the case begins." For some people it is already known whether they're guilty or not. I am a strong advocate of death penalty, and it's a shame these people like Milosevic and Karadzic get a life sentence in a very nicely furnished cell in sponsoring countries for prisoners. You just know. While I support the stance that all suspects should be innocent until proven guilty, for some you just know they're guilty and the trial is only a formality.
Now, on the other issue. "Greek lawyers are offering free help to Karadzic". Can anyone tell my why I am not surprised? Well, fellow men from the greek orthodox church. Close to Independence of Kosovo, all Serb politicians (except SRS) ruled out force as a tool to regain Kosovo, even Kostunica surprisingly. There was only one Serb figure who said that Serbs should take up arms against Albanians: Bishop Artemije of Prizren.

"As a footnote....it's a shame that not one Western reporting agency has mentioned the fact that Karadjic, during his last 8 days in Belgrade confinement, prepared himself for his upcoming trial by observing a strict Orthodox fast and Holy Communion given by Metropolitan Amphilohije of the Serbian Church. I guess that piousness and measurement of a man is irrelevant to the Western media."

You should be happy about that. Amphilohije also was at Karadzic mom's funeral and comapred her son to Krajl Marko. Trust me, it doesn't look good for your church in the west. Church and State are not mixed here.

File Pavle,
I never spoke about the govt of Serbia, but about the people of Serbia. Political games and pressure is one thing, will of the people is another.
I stricktly talked about the people putting pressure on the govt. even in here, where they have no reason to call them by the recognised by Serbian govt name, they call them "macedonians". And you are asking me to wait? For what? No thanks, if I ever need friends like those, I rather turn to albanians. At least you know that they will stab you eventually, it will not be a surprise.

I don't know if you are albanian or any other but it is clear that you have no relation with history at all.

The whole world not only takes Greece's positions VERY seriously on the name dispute, but most countries agree with Greece. (Like France recently publically stated that FYROM must change it's name.)

Now about your claims that Macedonia was a part of the Ottoman Empire that is really true. As it is true that before that, it was a part of the Byzantine (Hellenic) Empire. As it is true that before that it was a part of the Roman Empire. As it is true, that before that it was a part of the Greek Kingdom of Macedonia, one of the most glorious Greek city-states.

The whole issue is that through centuries, macedonia geographically belonged to many owners. But when it was belonging to any other owner than Greek it was a CONQUERED land. Macedonia was always a part of the Greek culture, herritage and nation... no less than ancient Athens, Thebes, Ypirus or Sparta.

Macedonia means Greece and Greece means Macedonia. As Athens means Greece as Greece means Athens. This is how the greek nation is formed since the ancient times.

So you better open a history book finally...
(Pavlos, 30 July 2008 22:56)
Dear Pavlos,
That was a well synopsis of the Greek history school books taught in elementary schools. You skiped though the parts where Metaxa's Commisions in 1936 changed the names from Slavic to Neo-Greek of more than 70% of the towns and villages in the province of Macedonia. Why the majority of the names of the towns in Macedonia (the province) would have been slavic if the owners where greeks? Was there any slavic invasion or conquer of Macedonia? Please enlighten us (the uneducated albanians)! What your elementary school history books say about that?

Arben, I am totally at your side. One of the main factors in the struggle for Kosovo is the unity of the Orthodox Church in her fight against Muslems in Europe. They have some problems to remain united, if the question is reduced to Western- or Eastern-Europe, as this article of today shows: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/30/world/europe/30ukraine.html?ref=world

Known on the ground is the participation of Russian and Greek mercenaries in the cleansing of the region round Rahovec/Orohavac. I once made a comment according bishop Artemije, but it wasn't placed by B92. I think that it wasn't alowed to be sceptical of his words and deeds as a Christian.

So I am not wondering about the offer from the Greek side. I have a Greek friend whose opinion in general is opposite mine.

Cees

The serbs have only two friends, god and the greeks. =)

Greece should do more to help Karadzic and Serbia, rather than allow some individual lawers to help him in the Hague, as it did during the bosnian war.

Greece should cooperate with Russia, in order to prevent the further recognition of the illegal mafia state of Kosovo, by putting as much political and diplomatic pressure internationally as they can.

And help Serbia, economically and diplomatically in their struggle agaisnst this artificial mafia puppet-country.

The Greek plan of the reconstruction of the Balkans (about 1 billion $) should all go to serbian hands, rather than separated to other balkan countries. It is unacceptable for Greece to give her money, even to hostile artificial countries (like FYROM) and not to her real friend that it needs them - Serbia that is.

Chania is a city of the western Crete island while Heraklio is a city of its eastern part. Chania Βar Association had stated some weeks ago that Alekos Alavanos, (chief of the parliamentary group of the Radical Left Coalition "party" and member of the Greek Parliament, elected at the district of Heraklio, Crete) is a persona non grata in Chania because he is in favor of the creation of a Court of Appeal at Heraklio. Greasy localism and corporativism of the worst kind!
The specific association by its president Demetris Pondikakis has been offered to defend Karadjic gratis. "Pondikaki" in Greek means little mouse. I think that the little mice of the Chania Bar Association are just trying to pretend that they are little male cats...

Ok, I am getting a bit upset with this "friendship" and "brotherhood" thing.
I am also getting upset with the "Orthodox brothers" and religious stupidity connection thing.

Why am I saying all these?
Because if you were our "brothers" and "only friends" and all those wonderful things, then you should have already put pressure to your goverment not to be among the first to recognise the puppet state of Fyrom, or you should put pressure on them now to change their position on the issue like Panama officialy did last week.
Or is it "friends when we are in need" and other than that nothing?

Whenever i have expressed my opinion that happened to be the same as the Serbs, it is not because of my big love for that nation, but because I feel it is right. My position on Kossovo for example, is because of my view on the issue and not because I prefer Serbs over albanians (I do, but thats for other reasons).
Anyways, I know in my life that REAL friends do not betray their "friends" and "brothers". Unless I have lived my life wrong for so many years.

On the lawyers issue now.
They are a small firm. Imagine, this hasnt even made the news here on the volume that it should. And that is because it is common feeling here that they are doing it for publicity mostly. On the other hand, if the man is guilty, it can only be AFTER the court's judgement and not before as it happens now.
I get sick of the atrocities described that were supposedly done after his orders, but I also get really sick when anyone talks about an accused and not convicted person like that: butcher, nazi, Menghele, etc etc.

To Nikita:

Nikita, apart from demanding things from friendly countries and accusing them, we should have thinked long ago we should have done or not.

During the declaration of the FYROM independence, Serbia was not just a country, but the motherland from which FYROM emerged. So If Serbia wouldn't have recognised FYROM, it would be like... declaring war to the new state that emerged from Yugoslavia and doesn't recognise it's actual independence! By taking that perspective into consideration, Serbia could not do otherwise. So I think Serbia is the last country we should accuse of recognising FYROM from the 100+ countries that have recognised them.

Serbia right now, is also in a difficult situation to lift the recognition of FYROM, as it would definetely mean that FYROM would recognise Kosovo straight away.

However if FYROM finally recognises Kosovo, then Serbia would be almost unacceptable not to lift the recognition of FYROM immediately.

It would be wrong for Serbia, to keep calling the pseudo-macedonian state "macedonia" if FYROM recognises Kosovo. Then I would agree with you about your comments about Serbia. But so far - because of the situation I explained to you - I don't think anyone can agree with you.

So let's see, how Serbia will react if FYROM recognise Kosovo and then judge them.

To the Albanian from Pristina:

I don't know if you are albanian or any other but it is clear that you have no relation with history at all.

The whole world not only takes Greece's positions VERY seriously on the name dispute, but most countries agree with Greece. (Like France recently publically stated that FYROM must change it's name.)

Now about your claims that Macedonia was a part of the Ottoman Empire that is really true. As it is true that before that, it was a part of the Byzantine (Hellenic) Empire. As it is true that before that it was a part of the Roman Empire. As it is true, that before that it was a part of the Greek Kingdom of Macedonia, one of the most glorious Greek city-states.

The whole issue is that through centuries, macedonia geographically belonged to many owners. But when it was belonging to any other owner than Greek it was a CONQUERED land. Macedonia was always a part of the Greek culture, herritage and nation... no less than ancient Athens, Thebes, Ypirus or Sparta.

Macedonia means Greece and Greece means Macedonia. As Athens means Greece as Greece means Athens. This is how the greek nation is formed since the ancient times.

So you better open a history book finally...

He's going to need all of the help he can get.

Whether he's guilty, and to what degree, or whether he's more or less guilty than other leaders during the Bosnian War seems irrelevant.

It has been decided, as it was with Milosevic, that he is guilty even before the case begins. And there is no way that the ICTY will ignore public and political pressure to find him guilty.

While I agree that he should be tried and that all victims of the horrendous wars in Yugoslavia deserve justice, I have no faith that the ICTY is not completely politically driven.

Thankfully the ICJ has so far not been hijacked by a few powerful countries. All nations still have a voice there, and the power to implement decisions. Roll on September.

This man has made it clear that he will speak for himself. He will represent himself. Is there a problem with that?

Free lawyers? This is really strange now, unheard of...

Thank you, my Greek brothers and fellow Orthodox, for wanting to defend a man that the West wants to humiliate and pre-judge. I am so tired, ad naseum, of the media calling Karadjic a "butcher", or "mastermind of genocide" against the Muslims. WHEN is the TRUTH going to come out that 1992-95 there was a CIVIL war in Bosna where Karadjic was simply the leader and defender of the Bosnian Serbs- who had just as much right to their lands as did the Muslims or Croats. Comparisons of Karadjic to German Nazi genocide make me sick- although that's exactly what the West wants us to believe- even before the trial. The Hague Tribunal is a farce and a circus- yet I hope and pray that with the help of our Greek friends (who the West seems to give more respect and credibility to than the "lowly" Serbs), the world will be given the opportunity to judge "unbiasedly" the "reality" of Karadjic's leadership and actions in leading his Bosnian Serbs against Western responsibility (through propoganda and agendas) for the Bosnian War.
As a footnote....it's a shame that not one Western reporting agency has mentioned the fact that Karadjic, during his last 8 days in Belgrade confinement, prepared himself for his upcoming trial by observing a strict Orthodox fast and Holy Communion given by Metropolitan Amphilohije of the Serbian Church. I guess that piousness and measurement of a man is irrelevant to the Western media.

Oh Arben, I forgot to tell you that I am against the death-penalty.

Cees

The ICTY is an illegal body set up by the US and NATO to try people for crimes committed in former Yugoslavia.Only UN members have the authority to set up ans ad-hoc tribunal.
Iam still waiting to see any UN evidence of the alleged atrocities that took place.
The ICTY in the Hague has also failed to produce any evidence of genocide in Bosnia.The Dutch troops that arrived in Sebrenica at the time of the alleged attrocities didn't find any signs of massacre.On the other hand there was little media coverage for the crimes that Alija Izetbegovic and Naser Oric on the Serbs.More than 4000 Serbs were slaughtered by Oric.He was sentenced into
two years imprisonment and he is currentle appaling against his sentence.
The same lies that US and its allies produced in Bosnia & Kosovo were also reproduced in Iraq and Afganistan.
The break-up of Yugoslavia was planned by the west in order to incorporate all its
parts into western global vision of the world and to secure the energy corridors for EU-Atlantic multinationals.

"Iam still waiting to see any UN evidence of the alleged atrocities that took place"
(Leonidas, 30 July 2008 17:38)

You must be joking right?....
there's videos all over youtube showing them,or I better say go ask your cousins that wawed Greek flag in Sarajevo when they were helping him.

Nikitas, in the former yugoslavia, people fromthe yugoslavian part of macedonia always called those people macedonians, so its more of people in yugoslavia being brought up to call people from "fyrom" macedonians. Its more of a cultural things. Im convinced that its not just serbs or montenegrins (those two i know for sure) but bosnians, croatians, and slovenes that use the term because they were brought up to call them macedonians.

Looking for free advertisement for their law firm.

And by the way, "Christian brotherhood" it is not a religious bond but a political one.

Just look at the "love" coming from the Greeks and the Macedonians (or Skopians if worry about the name).

Religion is just a political tool. When it is convenient we swear by it.

Pavlos, Nikitas

Let’s for the moment forget the game played by the politicians and focus on what people think and wish. However, I will just mention that this government has no courage to revoke its recognition of FRYOM after FRYOM’s possible recognition of Kosovo. This government is to weak and full of chickens. Honestly speaking if they did it I would applaud them for that move.

Now, about people’s opinion in general I am not aware. By calling Fryomians Macedonians is just a habit (taking into consideration that we lived for more than 50 years together) and absolutely has nothing to do with being mean to Greeks. Most of people do not think about the dispute between Greeks and Fryomians over the name. I don’t know whether Greeks should be insulted if some Serb unintentionally name Fryomians after Macedonians, but I do understand your anger. I think Nikitas you are a bit harsh when saying that Serbs are ready to stab you when you do not expect, but I am sure (or want to believe) that your claims are bit exaggerative. One of the reasons for not having this dispute over the name in our minds is simply because we have way too many problems to think about.

However, I personally support Greek’s efforts to solve the problem and think that Greeks have all the rights insisting on the change of the name. I would be too, as I am already angered by the intentions of some ethnicities to assume something that clearly do not belong to them. I am angered by the certain ethnicities’ aspirations towards the other’s culture and land. In this particular case, Albanians and Fryomians have very much in common; faking the historical facts, assuming the historical characters of other countries as their own, land greediness and so on, the list would be long.

@bmrusila

"I think Nikitas you are a bit harsh when saying that Serbs are ready to stab you when you do not expect, but I am sure (or want to believe) that your claims are bit exaggerative."

I never said Serbs would stab you at the back, but yes, I was exxagerating to show my anger.

Of course there are cultural ties and long standing relations between you and the fyromians, after all they are also Serbs and Slavs in general, exept the albanians. But this cant stop me from getting upset, in the way I posted at the first place. My heritage and history and past is being stolen day after day here and I feel i have every right to feel this way :)

I would firstly like to say that i respect the lawyers from hania. For several reasons and will try to number some of them.
The most important reason is that Karadzic is serb. Throught the centuries serbs were the only ally that Greeks could ever count on...mainly beacause of religion and secondly cause of mutuall interests. The same think applies between albania and turkey. If you take a close look in the politics during or after every balkan conflict you can see that muslim countries always line up and support other muslim countries. So please, any people that disagree with this stop and think first and be truthful! Religion is a major "player" in modern day conflicts.


My second thought or point that would like to make is that, that court is not a proper court... Its a court that U.S.A and its allies drag their opponents. Nothing else , nothing more. I havent seen so far an american or an ally of them getting trialed in there.If an opponent of U.S.A was seeding the whole world with deepleted uranium i am sure that he would be draged there for crimes against humanity. What would happen if serbia bombed buildings with civilians in them during the bosnian war or any other war? The would be CRIMINALS.... but americans just name it Colateral damage if it comes from there side. Or just think what would happen if another country was operating Guantanamo prison treating people like that.

So please, you can allign yourself with any side you want but be truthful. That is not a proper non-biased court and that person deserves all the help we can give him.

Dear Niko although I don't want to mock other peoples' education or lack of thereof I'd suggest you study some history books. Ever heard of the slavic invasions of Balkans during the early middle ages? Or the state of Dusan that for a brief period extended even to mainland Greece? There is no doubt there was a big slavic element in Greece and that Metaxas' regime forced a 'hellenization' of many things. That was all there was to it though, it was slavic not 'macedonian'.