Tadić seeks support from African leaders

No wonder.

Support from African continent...where Serbian mentality belongs...

Mr. Tadic, rest assure that you will find common understanding during conversations...

However, MOST African nations have already expressed willingness to recognise Kosovo...it is just a matter of days or weeks

Anyways, GOOD chooice and good continent to lobby...

Let me answer to the concerns of parallel Serbia=Africa.

What I think, PRN meant, in linking Serbia with some African states lies on the following FACTS:

1. At the same time when Ruanda tragedy happened Serbia made the SREBRENICA

2. Serbia is the only European country that here leadership (political, military and some intellectuals) is in Hague charged for war crimes- today except Serbian leaders in Hague we have only some African leaders charged and condemned for the same atrocities.

3. At the same time when the tragedy of Darfur was taking place Serbia undertook the most shameful military campaign against the civilians in Kosova And expelled more than 800 thousand civilians form Kosova and destroyed their document on the border so they could NEVER make their way back home and claim their properties, their LAND- same as in DARFUR.

So my dear Serbian "liberals" you see that there are some parallels to be drawn between Serbia and some African countries.

The above listed points are FACTS and no reasonable man black or white can dispute them - the fact that you see this under ‘racial optic’ is because you are racially biased- in no way you want to be compared with Africa, despite your state committed atrocities that in the contemporary history are seen only in Africa.

I can imagine the Tadic's speech:

I am begging you African countries not to recognise Kosova's independence based on the right of self-determination, the same right that ALL of YOU applied for yourself in your post-colonial strangle for freedom.

I just can't imagine how far the hypocrisy of the Serbian politicians can go.

PRN: "Support from African continent...where Serbian mentality belongs... "

What an ignorant statement. Have you lived in any African countries or do you know any African people? And on what basis do you belittle the entire continent (unless you're trying to compare good points between Serbia and Africa which I somehow doubt)?

If you're relying on the stereotype of all of Africa being tribal and backward, do you realise that some people also have the same notions about certain countries in the Balkans?

MARK (SHQYPE): "If African relations were so important to you, why didn't you care about them up until this point?"

But Mark, Yugoslavia was a founder of the Non-Aligned Movement and has a strong historical and political link with African countries.

Mutual respect, and certainly not the type of disparaging statements appearing on this thread.

of course the main promblem for Africa now is ..Kosovo..

Judging by the kind of respect the Albanians have for the rest of the world, it's no wonder they have decided not to recognise.

Not only Africa, but also Asia, South America and the Middle East simply have no interest in this nonsense.

It is only NATO and the EU (i.e. the occupational forces) that have any of interest and that's only for themselves. It's obvious they couldn't care less for the Albanians otherwise they would have done something by now instead of keeping Kosovo in a decrepit state and leaving the Albanians destitute.

Oh yeah, but it's all of Serbia's fault. There's always someone to blame but themselves.

So keep it up Albanians, keep showing the world your true face.

You're wrong, Mr. Tadic. It is SERBIA that "represents a serious obstacle on the road towards the European Union for the entire region," not the coordinated declaration of independence by Kosova.

If African relations were so important to you, why didn't you care about them up until this point? Clearly because they only suit your own interests now, and you're attempting to manipulate them over the Kosova issue, just like the Serbs in that new country. I hope the African states see through this ploy!

What is this arrogance against PRN.

Has PRN pointed out or belittle black race? The answer is NO.

The post #2 does not say anything to insult any race whatsoever.

Childish analysis from some in this thread.

As BEN explained there are alot of similarities between Africa and Serbia.

READ carefully his professional analysis please.

Gather up the tribes

Bravo for Tadic and Jeremic. You gentlemen are fighting like a lions, with lots of patriotism but also with respect for everybody else. Very true that those powers who intend to steal Kosovo from Serbia are so much more powerful and priviledged than small country of Serbia.But the Serbs have always been freedom fighters no matter what and to the bitter end.
Tadic and Jeremic will carry on this fight for Kosovo politically and diplomatically
and will do their best.
Thanks for all African people of good will who are supporting Serbia!

yes tadic and 99% of african border lines that we have today are created from Great-Britain,France,Netherlands,Germany,Belgium,Portugal (colonialism)

When does Tadic plan to tell it like it is to the EU countries who act beyond the bounds of international law?

That is what is required without pussy footing words - direct and in uncertain terms so that there can be confusion like that of the Belguim FM who believes;

“My understanding is that we’ve only signed the agreement with Serbia itself, without Kosovo,”

Each time the EU or any EU official or officials representing individual states of the EU who act against Serbia mention Serbia in the EU the simple question should be put to them;

"but what do you mean helping Serbia on the path to the EU - which Serbia? With or without its province?

Especially given they act beyond their obligation to uphold UN SC resolution 1244 and all other international norms and laws on territorial integrity and sovereignity of Serbia such a question must be asked relentlessly because it will never be accepted as a fait acompli!

Your wayward attempts to quash the unrelenting voices against your calls for an 'Independent kosovo' are pathetic at best and smack of desperation at worst! GET OVER IT!

You can fool ALL of the people some of the time. You can even fool some of the people all of the time, but you can't fool ALL of the people ALL of the time...T.S ELLIOT

KOSOVO IS SERBIA!- and the World knows it!

"Support from African continent...where Serbian mentality belongs...

Anyways, GOOD chooice and good continent to lobby...
(PRN, 30 June 2008 16:27)"


countless times the K-albanian writers have accused Serbs and Serbia of racism, but it´s quite the opposite in fact.

I will forward this comment with it´s URL to some partners in several african countries, they will certainly have their own opinion on what is racism and what is simple stupidity...

very well done, PRN, with your albanian-racism, you are supporting the serbian cause quite perfectly!

Do the serbs here realize that the 43 UN member States that have recognized Kosovo are the ones who actually made up this "international law" and they are the ones that enforce it?
I don't think that AU really cares for Kosova or Serbia; I would rank cable t.v. as more important for the African people than Kosovo.

Gentlemens:

I simply just can't take lessons from Serbs on tolerance.

We Albanians gave to the world MOTHER THERESA.

You Serbs gave Radovan Karadzic and Ratko Mladic.

There should be some difference between those people, don’t you think?

So dear Serbs, pls refrain in preaching us the democracy and respect.

You made Srebrenica, Vukovar, Kosova not the aliens.

Hrb,

you are right in mentioning other tragedies in the world- and particularly liked the fact that you mentioned for the first Chechnya where unimaginable atrocities are made by the "defenders" of the International Law and as you might like it "anti-imperialists" RUSSIA.

Anyhow, pls refer to my post #9

Actually I put Africa and Kosova in the same line= both of them fight for their freedom. The only difference is that Africans got their freedom many years before Kosovars. Those are the FACTS as are facts the one that I mentioned in my previous post.

Now tale me more about the imperialism and democracy, please.

Join Serbia in combating islamic and international terrorism, albanian irredentism, American unilateralism and cultural colonialism, protecting the international law, Democracy and Humanity, european and universal values, christianity, white race, black race, red, green and blue race, Africa and Europe. All you have to do is: not recognize Kosovo.

Wow!

it is really allering. I´m sure Tadic will convince at least Zimbabwe´s Mugabe.

What a hypocrisy?! Serbia is asking support and sublimating the countries who doesn't recognize Kosovo independence. If the same countries would recognize Kosovo independence, they would be snubed by Serbia!
This is far below than diplomacy...

Good luck Kosovo on your own way...

Jovan pls forward my posting as well #9.

Thanks

Funcakes, Ben, PRN and others,


Hmmm, let's see...loyalty to Yugoslavia or multi-billion dollar US aid.

What would most African countries choose?

Tick tock I say.
(Funcakes, 1 July 2008 12:54)

That’s great proving and fact how wrong you are. Strategy of your power masters is all that what you just said: blackmailing, pure pressure, arm-twisting, force and punishment.
On the other side – Serbia can offer just honest speech and “thank you” – And still it’s enough for most honest people and states not to bow – YOU SHOULD GET THE MESSAGE AND GO TO DICTIONARY AND FIND ONE WORD YOU DON’T KNOW STILL EXIST – MORAL.
If you are honest and intelligent you should get the message – all money and pressure can’t buy the justice and true –still outside modern drive-through McDonald democracy, people knows the word – MORAL. They choose hunger over IMMORAL-UNETHIC. A lot to learn from this!!!

Mr. Tadic you forgot to go and beg Tutsis and Hutus for support. I insure you that you will get their 100% support. Not only the territorial integrity but also they will support the ethnic cleansing and killing and massacres that your coalition partners did in Kosova. Now you are in the right place to look for support of what your coalition partners and your country did to Kosova.

"unless the problem is not solved in the right way, the great progress the entire region of the Western Balkans has made could be jeopardized".

"SOLVED IN THE RIGHT WAY" I like that but what is the right way. If a solution is WRONG for the Serbian side that could mean ROGHT for the other side.
For me is unimmaginable for Serbia to exercise its sovereignity over Kosova.

I can understand Ben and Albanians on this site (not to generalize with all Albanians); they are frustrated with their position in general. But their feeling of inferiority and possibility that they can come up from nowhere doesn’t give them the right and doesn’t help them at all to dump all that nonsense about Serbs, African people and others who don’t understand their frustration, blindness and limitations.

Hmmm, let's see...loyalty to Yugoslavia or multi-billion dollar US aid.

What would most African countries choose?

Tick tock I say.

Sorry for my ignorance but can someone here please explain to me how Serbia was created, was it a self declaration event that created the the state or did someone else decided to hand over all this land to you....

Of all the bizarre qualities to tadic's nationalist jargon, this bit about Yugoslavia is just too d--ned much for me. what and who was yugoslavia? the serb nationalists? the serb politicians? granted they were a PART of it, and that serbia CLAimed the mantle of yugoslavia (under their beloved milosevic, of course!) but a slight reality check would indicate that all of the now independent states of the FORMER yugoslavia (including kosova)make up now what has been left of the yugoslavia that i once knew.

it is just such sloppy and illogical thinking -- who is writing tadic's speeches anyway?

robert0/frisco

Well… maybe Robert Mugabe would support Serbia against the UK and the United States.

Good luck!

B92,

PRN post is totally racist. The worst thing - it made all Albanian blind nationalists to show their true face by clicking constantly on RECOMMEND button. I am surprised that some even openly support it by another post. They have never been open before and have not had the courage to say something in your face. God bless Internet for them – they can show how brave they are and show the true face hidden in shadow of cyberspace.

B92 should take a lot responsibility for the post # 2 went through uncensored.

I avoid before mentioning common and proven FACT – the rating of Albanians in Europe and around the World. – Just be honest and do reality check – you will go back to earth or hide even deeper.

very well done, PRN, with your albanian-racism, you are supporting the serbian cause quite perfectly!
(Jovan, 30 June 2008 20:50)
--
And PRN has the most recommendations with that racist comment so it's quite obvious that many Albanians support him. Shame on you!

PRN: "Support from African continent...where Serbian mentality belongs... "

What a disgusting, ignorant and downright racist statement. I have a number of African friends (Kenyan, Zambian, Nigerian, South African) and also worked with them and they are the most humble people you could ever meet. If that is the best you can come up with, then please refrain from such comments. B92 I am very surprised that you can allow such statements to be posted on a public website.

"Indeed it is ramarkable who is supporting Serbia and whos suppuort they seek for. How many of them can be considered as tightened democracies?
You´ll find Russia, Belarus Iran and Indonesia. Now they are begging Egypt, Libya, Sudan and Zimbamwe.
By the way all members of G7 (it is the G7 plus Russia, not the G8!) have recognized Kosovo as a sovereign state and will support it becoming an anchor for stability.

Nevertheless one should respect Serbia choice for its allies.
(Dimer Imer, 1 July 2008 10:56)"

So Spain, Portugal, Greece, Cyprus, Slovakia, Malta, Romania, Brazil, Argentina, Chile, Venezuela, Bolivia, Nicaragua, Mexico, Botswana, Zambia, Kenya, New Zealand, etc, etc. so by your logic are also not democracies. Guess what, they also support Serbia as does Indonesia which is also a democracy. My friend, these are also democratic countries who believe in the upholding of international law while your glorious allies US/UK ride roughshod over the very principles that they signed up to - democracy & human rights by invading sovereign states half way accross the world, inflicting death and misery on peoples and oh yes, overthrowing democratically elected governments. Just ask the people of Chile, Iran, Guatamala, Palestine, Venezuela, etc, etc.

"Hmmm, let's see...loyalty to Yugoslavia or multi-billion dollar US aid.

What would most African countries choose?

Tick tock I say.
(Funcakes, 1 July 2008 12:54)"

Tick-tock Funcakes. America is on the verge of bankruptcy. Its costing billions to finance its resource wars in Afghanistan and Iraq not to mention the subprime meltdown in the US financial institutions. So how do you expect that they Africa billons?

Oh wait, Dubya will concoct another WMD phoney balloney reason to invade Iran and get his hands on the oil.

Indeed it is ramarkable who is supporting Serbia and whos suppuort they seek for. How many of them can be considered as tightened democracies?
You´ll find Russia, Belarus Iran and Indonesia. Now they are begging Egypt, Libya, Sudan and Zimbamwe.
By the way all members of G7 (it is the G7 plus Russia, not the G8!) have recognized Kosovo as a sovereign state and will support it becoming an anchor for stability.

Nevertheless one should respect Serbia choice for its allies.

Ben - Why would Jovan forward your comment #9? It's factually inaccurate anyway, because you're talking about gaining independence of countries and not provinces.

And to PRN and others who think that statements like his are acceptable - are you aware that racism is illegal under EU legislation?

As wannabe members of the EU maybe you should address your acceptance of racist views and move into the 21st Century.

To Stoning Rolle:
What the heck are you talking about or implying?? In fact why do you mention the "blue" and "green" race??As far as I'm concerned these races or ethnicities don't exist. Finally don't confuse reality with science fiction or even cryptozoology if that's what you're doing.

Albo, Albanian camp,

You're still not getting the message. We all know what you think about Serbs, but this article is about African nations-people and your racism is to offend ALL AFRICAN people for no reason,
those are cheap shots. You're so blind AGAIN to get the point. We know your view and love for Serbs but don't hate the other people if they try to make honest or reasonable choice - and if it's against Albanian interests you bark and bite.

PRN,
Please explain what you meant with the following statement:

"Support from African continent...where Serbian mentality belongs... "


I really hope that you don't mean what I think you do, then you should be ashamed of your racist view. Its understandable that you may not love the serbs, and we don't love you but why the need to use these words about Africa???

The only way this problem will be solved is for each party to recognize the other as legitimate people with strong motives. The Albanians clearly want their own state. The Serbs, on the other hand, don't want Kosovo to be its own state, at least as it is now configured. Although Kosovo has been recognized by some 43 countries, I don't think that's enough to make Kosovo Albanians happy. Now, part of the world is open to them. However, if they want to visit other nations, they'll have to do it under a Serbian passport. Is that what they want? Both parties must return to the negotiating table and negotiate in good faith, without the US or Russia standing behind them. With the Tadic government, I'm sure a just solution would be found to make everyone feel better, although I doubt either group would be completely happy. Then again, such is life.
Regarding Africa, some of the comments made by the Albanian supporters are very racist. How is it I ask that you expect African countries to support you when you make vile and racist comments against them; just read the first few posts on this thread and you will see what I mean.

My parents are originally South African and left during apartheid because they didn't agree with what was happening.

As far as I know SA has no plans to recognise Kosovo. I am diusgusted by some of the racism of the comments on this thread.

It is understandable that people would dislike Serbs given the history and I do think that the Serbian GOVERNMENT did some awful things in Kosovo. But that is no excuse to insult African countries that simply disagree with a point of view that has little to do with their lives on a day to day basis.

I suspect the reason many African leaders are not recognising this is because they see it as a form of imperailism. And they are right. It is imperialism. Against a country that has been subject to various forms of oppression for hundreds of years. Not that that excuses anything that Serbs have done over the years, becuase it doesn't.

As for atrocities being seen "only in Africa" - what nonsense. Chechnya? Georgia? Palestine? Iraq? Vietnam? (I guess that doesn't count because the American soldiers were there to spread democracy - with Napalm). Krajina????

People imagine Africa is some forsaken land where lions walk around in the streets, everyone is starving and lives in a mud hut, when that is nonsense. Besides, didn't Burkina Faso recognise Kosovo a short while ago?

These views are typical from people I see on a regular basis, who tend to be quite over-educated, but not actually very clever or well informed about subjects they think they know all about, who think these things about Africa, and think that the West is consistently right in everything it does.

So far only 3 african states joined the bandwagon of Emperor George W. Bush. many thanks to the majority of african countries who maintained faith to international law which guarantees serbia's territorial integrity

Funcakes,

Maybe that is because African countries have learned by experience what empty promises of "multi-billion dollar US aid" means.

They can recognize Kosovo and not get a dime for it, and since they know it there won't be many new recognitions either.

---Kosovo will never get >90 recognitions by september in the general assembly---

>> I avoid before mentioning common and proven FACT – the rating of Albanians in Europe and around the World.

I avoid before mentioning common and proven FACT – the rating of Serbs in Europe and around the World. (you should non-Serbian sites for a change, you'll see what I mean)

"As for atrocities being seen "only in Africa" - what nonsense. Chechnya? Georgia? Palestine? Iraq? Vietnam? (I guess that doesn't count because the American soldiers were there to spread democracy - with Napalm). Krajina????

People imagine Africa is some forsaken land where lions walk around in the streets, everyone is starving and lives in a mud hut, when that is nonsense. Besides, didn't Burkina Faso recognise Kosovo a short while ago?

These views are typical from people I see on a regular basis, who tend to be quite over-educated, but not actually very clever or well informed about subjects they think they know all about, who think these things about Africa, and think that the West is consistently right in everything it does.
(hrb, 2 July 2008 05:06)"

hrb, maybe this article will educate our Albanian friends about America's hugely influential role in supporting democracy and human rights in Africa.

http://www.antiwar.com/zunes/?articleid=13077

has favoured one side over the other, without taking that side's views into consideration at all.

Serb community are extremely worrying.

Take care ...
(Hrb, 2 July 2008 17:10)

Utterly wrong Hrb

1. What were the concerns of the post-colonial African countries that they addressed towards the "other" side teh colonisers? Did you compromise on you independece??? NO you didn't.

2. Kosova IS compromising. It has a SUPERVISED independence.

3. The rights of the Serbian micro-minority are addressed more than properly. It has been established a POSITIVE precedent about treatment of the minorities- the Serbian language is OFFICIL in teh ENTIRE country and many other rights. No such precedent of rights for minorities in the WORLD.

4. You are right to be worried regarding teh K-Serbs safety but do not be “extremely worried”. Be sure that things are going on the right direction (point 3) and as soon as the Russian's and Serbian Gov.t influence on teh K-Serbs will diminish teh things will go better.

Now guess who and how much is in danger.

And teh last please stop with that propaganda that Serbian Gov.t did some awful things in Kosova- since no intellectual, politicians or political party has ever condemn that and asked for apology.

Even the today's "democratic" Gov.t of Serbia has asked for apology.

When "democratic" PM of Serbia visit Kosova all they say is that Kosova is Serbia- but never ever asked an apology and condemn the acts of their state there. Neither today.

So you see it's not just Gov.t issue- it is something more and deeper, that's why there is no chance that Kosova remains part of Serbia.

P.S. if you put in teh same plate Russia, China and US, UK why didn't you emigrate in those countries rather than in the western Europe or US??

Democracies are not perfect but always refer to teh JFK speech in Berlin- the choice is easy.

Hello Winds of Change,

You wrote, "As BEN explained there are alot of similarities between Africa and Serbia.

READ carefully his professional analysis please."

Explain where the "professional analysis" is please. All I see is rather inaccurate, misleading and disingenuous amateur rhetoric. There is no analysis (professional or otherwise) - just bland, unsubstantiated statements with little factual basis.

@ Niall - yes. Hard for African leaders to support US and British "democracy" when that democracy has led to the plundering of Africa's resources, famine, genocide over many centuries, and most recently a civil war and a joint US/Ethiopian military occupation of Somalia, a country with no government to speak of, where US planes routinely strike innocent villagers in search of "terrorists" .

@ Ben:

Thanks for your comment. I did mention Chechnya first for that reason. The politicians in the Russian state like those everywhere, are no angels. The Russian state, like France, like China, like the US, like the other members of the UN INsecurity Council is no angel. You will never see me apologising for its actions.

I am aware that the Serbian government was responsible for some terrible actions in Kosovo. However the way that the situation has been managed since that time, by the self proclaimed guardians of freedom and democracy in the world, has favoured one side over the other, without taking that side's views into consideration at all. It has also bestowed a false "independence" onto Kosovo's institutions which exists in only name - the people in control are actually from the EU and Nato.

I'm not a Serb or a Serb nationalist. I just think that the way the situation has been handled is not beneficial to anyone and some of the reports coming out of Kosovo right now concerning the Serb community are extremely worrying.

Take care ...

"we gave Mother Theresa to the world", Ben said... :)

yes, Ben! you gave the "death angel of Kolkatta" to the world!
just do a little bit research my dear albanian smart guy.

I would just like to add one other thing.

Being oppressed in the past does NOT MEAN that one's nation is entirely perfect. I am Jewish and we were persecuted continuously for 2000 years by almost every country in Europe. There are a number of historical and economic reasons for this and I don't really want to talk about what these might have been at length. However, in recent years we have had to face up to the fact that Jews like everyone else are not perfect and are indeed capable of terrible crimes, such as what happens in Palestine.

People have to face up to the fact, that no country or religion is perfect, not even theirs. Past oppression can only be used as an excuse to oppress others for so long, especailly when that oppression is backed up by powerful nations whose interests it is in to allow it.

PRN,

Apart from your statement being discriminatory, racist and downright ignorant, your point is non-existant as well.

Africa is actually a continent, in case you were confused about your geography, whereas there are a lot of countires, with a lot of different cultures, languages and customs.
You're comparing a country to a continent.

What a lovely way to generalise and to eloquently represent the mentality of Albanians.

Ben.

I am not a Serb and I do think that the Serbian government does, if it has any chance of fulfilling it's aims, need to do more, in order to get people's trust, apart from just saying "Kosovo is Serbia" as you said. It is very, very unlikely that Kosovo will revert to the direct rule of Belgrade any time soon. If this, equally unsuitable solution, had happened, then I would be equally angry about it because it would not take the rights of Albanians into account.

On the matter of "supervised independence" - this in practice means that Kosovo is not actually independent. Its politicians and institutions actually have very little power in practice. They can be sacked by foreigners at the drop of a hat. This does not benefit anyone apart from rich and powerful countries. It certainly does not benefit the normal people of Kosovo, either Serbs or Albanians. It effects means that Kosovo is a protectorate of the USA and Nato. This is not real independence.

I actually think that, if all sides were to agree to it, then Kosovo should become independent. But what has actually happened is that it isn't independent atall. And the Serb community are in a rather precarious situation.

As for your comparison between Kosovo and Africa - you are correct but I do not think you are right in the way that you intended. Africa's history is one in which colonial powers have drawn and redrawn borders to suit their own ends. Many African countries did indeed have to compromise on their independence. Historical states were split up and amalgamated into artificial creations with little in common with each other. The colonial legacy is one which has led to a huge, huge amount of suffering and violence that is still with those people today.

South Africa used to be a British colony until after the war, when power was handed over to an all-white Afrikaner government. Black people in South Africa DID have to compromise with their independence. They were subject to an illegal, oppressive system which pervaded all aspects of life, and was based on their supposed "inferiority".

I live in the UK. The reason I lumped these countries together is because they are the members of the UN security council, the "most important" countries in the world supposedly. I was born in the UK.

As for the minority rights issue - I have read the constitution and it does indeed make quite a lot of provisions for minorities in the country. You are right. However, this does not change the fact that there are some rather disturbing reports coming out of the area, such as Serbs not being able to visit certain towns, and such like. Now I am aware that Albanians experience similar difficulties going to majority-Serb areas and this also needs to be sorted out. There are too many divisions and I am worried that things will get worse.

As for the Serbs having the most rights of any minority in the world, I have to say that judging by the way that the UK, although it is not perfect, treats minorities, that you are wrong. Having a constitution that says such things is all very well but it needs to actually be implemented on the ground. Maybe it will be in future, I don't know but to be honest I'm not really filled with optimism.

I am not trying to have a go at you. I really hope that everything can be worked out, whatever evetually happens, for the good of everyone. I'm not automatically pro-Serb and anti-Albanian.

(hrb, 3 July 2008 02:05)

Hrb, thank you for your reply.

I hope too that the things will go in the right direction- it is a process and the Constitution is not a joke.

Anyhow, teh fact is that the hand of the K-Albanians is open but I don't see Serbs and K-Serbs walking towards that open hand: read comments of: (dd, 2 July 2008 18:24) or even more (Jovan, 2 July 2008 19:38).

Reading them I persive only hate and denial- and you?

P.S. I don't understand why the moderator cancelled the part where I was refering to the fact that the northern Mintrovica is cleaned ethnically and the Albanians that cannot reposess their houses and properties there even after 8 years after the war?? This is fact- not politics.

If what you have just said is true, Ben, then this is an illustration of how badly the so-called international community have handled this, for their own ends.

As for the comments of some of the Serb posters on this site - yes, I do not agree with a lot of the stuff that gets said, I think it is dusgusting and appalling. But equally hateful things have been said ABOUT serbs on this site as well.

Take care mate ...

(hrb, 3 July 2008 15:32)

Mitrovica was under the French responsabilty and Schirach...

cheers mate

ben,

you said, "I don't understand why the moderator cancelled the part where I was refering to the fact that the northern Mintrovica is cleaned ethnically and the Albanians that cannot reposess their houses and properties there even after 8 years after the war?? This is fact- not politics."

The answer is probably in you last few words. Northern Mitrovica has NOT been ethnically cleaned. Albanians still live north of the Ibar!

More proof that you are either deluded as to the reality or deliberately trying disseminate falsehoods.

No wonder.

Support from African continent...where Serbian mentality belongs...

Mr. Tadic, rest assure that you will find common understanding during conversations...

However, MOST African nations have already expressed willingness to recognise Kosovo...it is just a matter of days or weeks

Anyways, GOOD chooice and good continent to lobby...

"unless the problem is not solved in the right way, the great progress the entire region of the Western Balkans has made could be jeopardized".

"SOLVED IN THE RIGHT WAY" I like that but what is the right way. If a solution is WRONG for the Serbian side that could mean ROGHT for the other side.
For me is unimmaginable for Serbia to exercise its sovereignity over Kosova.

Your wayward attempts to quash the unrelenting voices against your calls for an 'Independent kosovo' are pathetic at best and smack of desperation at worst! GET OVER IT!

You can fool ALL of the people some of the time. You can even fool some of the people all of the time, but you can't fool ALL of the people ALL of the time...T.S ELLIOT

KOSOVO IS SERBIA!- and the World knows it!

You're wrong, Mr. Tadic. It is SERBIA that "represents a serious obstacle on the road towards the European Union for the entire region," not the coordinated declaration of independence by Kosova.

If African relations were so important to you, why didn't you care about them up until this point? Clearly because they only suit your own interests now, and you're attempting to manipulate them over the Kosova issue, just like the Serbs in that new country. I hope the African states see through this ploy!

I can imagine the Tadic's speech:

I am begging you African countries not to recognise Kosova's independence based on the right of self-determination, the same right that ALL of YOU applied for yourself in your post-colonial strangle for freedom.

I just can't imagine how far the hypocrisy of the Serbian politicians can go.

Do the serbs here realize that the 43 UN member States that have recognized Kosovo are the ones who actually made up this "international law" and they are the ones that enforce it?
I don't think that AU really cares for Kosova or Serbia; I would rank cable t.v. as more important for the African people than Kosovo.

Join Serbia in combating islamic and international terrorism, albanian irredentism, American unilateralism and cultural colonialism, protecting the international law, Democracy and Humanity, european and universal values, christianity, white race, black race, red, green and blue race, Africa and Europe. All you have to do is: not recognize Kosovo.

Wow!

it is really allering. I´m sure Tadic will convince at least Zimbabwe´s Mugabe.

PRN: "Support from African continent...where Serbian mentality belongs... "

What an ignorant statement. Have you lived in any African countries or do you know any African people? And on what basis do you belittle the entire continent (unless you're trying to compare good points between Serbia and Africa which I somehow doubt)?

If you're relying on the stereotype of all of Africa being tribal and backward, do you realise that some people also have the same notions about certain countries in the Balkans?

MARK (SHQYPE): "If African relations were so important to you, why didn't you care about them up until this point?"

But Mark, Yugoslavia was a founder of the Non-Aligned Movement and has a strong historical and political link with African countries.

Mutual respect, and certainly not the type of disparaging statements appearing on this thread.

"Support from African continent...where Serbian mentality belongs...

Anyways, GOOD chooice and good continent to lobby...
(PRN, 30 June 2008 16:27)"


countless times the K-albanian writers have accused Serbs and Serbia of racism, but it´s quite the opposite in fact.

I will forward this comment with it´s URL to some partners in several african countries, they will certainly have their own opinion on what is racism and what is simple stupidity...

very well done, PRN, with your albanian-racism, you are supporting the serbian cause quite perfectly!

Bravo for Tadic and Jeremic. You gentlemen are fighting like a lions, with lots of patriotism but also with respect for everybody else. Very true that those powers who intend to steal Kosovo from Serbia are so much more powerful and priviledged than small country of Serbia.But the Serbs have always been freedom fighters no matter what and to the bitter end.
Tadic and Jeremic will carry on this fight for Kosovo politically and diplomatically
and will do their best.
Thanks for all African people of good will who are supporting Serbia!

Sorry for my ignorance but can someone here please explain to me how Serbia was created, was it a self declaration event that created the the state or did someone else decided to hand over all this land to you....

very well done, PRN, with your albanian-racism, you are supporting the serbian cause quite perfectly!
(Jovan, 30 June 2008 20:50)
--
And PRN has the most recommendations with that racist comment so it's quite obvious that many Albanians support him. Shame on you!

Gather up the tribes

Judging by the kind of respect the Albanians have for the rest of the world, it's no wonder they have decided not to recognise.

Not only Africa, but also Asia, South America and the Middle East simply have no interest in this nonsense.

It is only NATO and the EU (i.e. the occupational forces) that have any of interest and that's only for themselves. It's obvious they couldn't care less for the Albanians otherwise they would have done something by now instead of keeping Kosovo in a decrepit state and leaving the Albanians destitute.

Oh yeah, but it's all of Serbia's fault. There's always someone to blame but themselves.

So keep it up Albanians, keep showing the world your true face.

When does Tadic plan to tell it like it is to the EU countries who act beyond the bounds of international law?

That is what is required without pussy footing words - direct and in uncertain terms so that there can be confusion like that of the Belguim FM who believes;

“My understanding is that we’ve only signed the agreement with Serbia itself, without Kosovo,”

Each time the EU or any EU official or officials representing individual states of the EU who act against Serbia mention Serbia in the EU the simple question should be put to them;

"but what do you mean helping Serbia on the path to the EU - which Serbia? With or without its province?

Especially given they act beyond their obligation to uphold UN SC resolution 1244 and all other international norms and laws on territorial integrity and sovereignity of Serbia such a question must be asked relentlessly because it will never be accepted as a fait acompli!

yes tadic and 99% of african border lines that we have today are created from Great-Britain,France,Netherlands,Germany,Belgium,Portugal (colonialism)

of course the main promblem for Africa now is ..Kosovo..

Of all the bizarre qualities to tadic's nationalist jargon, this bit about Yugoslavia is just too d--ned much for me. what and who was yugoslavia? the serb nationalists? the serb politicians? granted they were a PART of it, and that serbia CLAimed the mantle of yugoslavia (under their beloved milosevic, of course!) but a slight reality check would indicate that all of the now independent states of the FORMER yugoslavia (including kosova)make up now what has been left of the yugoslavia that i once knew.

it is just such sloppy and illogical thinking -- who is writing tadic's speeches anyway?

robert0/frisco

So far only 3 african states joined the bandwagon of Emperor George W. Bush. many thanks to the majority of african countries who maintained faith to international law which guarantees serbia's territorial integrity

PRN,
Please explain what you meant with the following statement:

"Support from African continent...where Serbian mentality belongs... "


I really hope that you don't mean what I think you do, then you should be ashamed of your racist view. Its understandable that you may not love the serbs, and we don't love you but why the need to use these words about Africa???

Let me answer to the concerns of parallel Serbia=Africa.

What I think, PRN meant, in linking Serbia with some African states lies on the following FACTS:

1. At the same time when Ruanda tragedy happened Serbia made the SREBRENICA

2. Serbia is the only European country that here leadership (political, military and some intellectuals) is in Hague charged for war crimes- today except Serbian leaders in Hague we have only some African leaders charged and condemned for the same atrocities.

3. At the same time when the tragedy of Darfur was taking place Serbia undertook the most shameful military campaign against the civilians in Kosova And expelled more than 800 thousand civilians form Kosova and destroyed their document on the border so they could NEVER make their way back home and claim their properties, their LAND- same as in DARFUR.

So my dear Serbian "liberals" you see that there are some parallels to be drawn between Serbia and some African countries.

The above listed points are FACTS and no reasonable man black or white can dispute them - the fact that you see this under ‘racial optic’ is because you are racially biased- in no way you want to be compared with Africa, despite your state committed atrocities that in the contemporary history are seen only in Africa.

What is this arrogance against PRN.

Has PRN pointed out or belittle black race? The answer is NO.

The post #2 does not say anything to insult any race whatsoever.

Childish analysis from some in this thread.

As BEN explained there are alot of similarities between Africa and Serbia.

READ carefully his professional analysis please.

Indeed it is ramarkable who is supporting Serbia and whos suppuort they seek for. How many of them can be considered as tightened democracies?
You´ll find Russia, Belarus Iran and Indonesia. Now they are begging Egypt, Libya, Sudan and Zimbamwe.
By the way all members of G7 (it is the G7 plus Russia, not the G8!) have recognized Kosovo as a sovereign state and will support it becoming an anchor for stability.

Nevertheless one should respect Serbia choice for its allies.

What a hypocrisy?! Serbia is asking support and sublimating the countries who doesn't recognize Kosovo independence. If the same countries would recognize Kosovo independence, they would be snubed by Serbia!
This is far below than diplomacy...

Good luck Kosovo on your own way...

Mr. Tadic you forgot to go and beg Tutsis and Hutus for support. I insure you that you will get their 100% support. Not only the territorial integrity but also they will support the ethnic cleansing and killing and massacres that your coalition partners did in Kosova. Now you are in the right place to look for support of what your coalition partners and your country did to Kosova.

Ben - Why would Jovan forward your comment #9? It's factually inaccurate anyway, because you're talking about gaining independence of countries and not provinces.

And to PRN and others who think that statements like his are acceptable - are you aware that racism is illegal under EU legislation?

As wannabe members of the EU maybe you should address your acceptance of racist views and move into the 21st Century.

Hmmm, let's see...loyalty to Yugoslavia or multi-billion dollar US aid.

What would most African countries choose?

Tick tock I say.

The only way this problem will be solved is for each party to recognize the other as legitimate people with strong motives. The Albanians clearly want their own state. The Serbs, on the other hand, don't want Kosovo to be its own state, at least as it is now configured. Although Kosovo has been recognized by some 43 countries, I don't think that's enough to make Kosovo Albanians happy. Now, part of the world is open to them. However, if they want to visit other nations, they'll have to do it under a Serbian passport. Is that what they want? Both parties must return to the negotiating table and negotiate in good faith, without the US or Russia standing behind them. With the Tadic government, I'm sure a just solution would be found to make everyone feel better, although I doubt either group would be completely happy. Then again, such is life.
Regarding Africa, some of the comments made by the Albanian supporters are very racist. How is it I ask that you expect African countries to support you when you make vile and racist comments against them; just read the first few posts on this thread and you will see what I mean.

Funcakes,

Maybe that is because African countries have learned by experience what empty promises of "multi-billion dollar US aid" means.

They can recognize Kosovo and not get a dime for it, and since they know it there won't be many new recognitions either.

---Kosovo will never get >90 recognitions by september in the general assembly---

PRN: "Support from African continent...where Serbian mentality belongs... "

What a disgusting, ignorant and downright racist statement. I have a number of African friends (Kenyan, Zambian, Nigerian, South African) and also worked with them and they are the most humble people you could ever meet. If that is the best you can come up with, then please refrain from such comments. B92 I am very surprised that you can allow such statements to be posted on a public website.

"Indeed it is ramarkable who is supporting Serbia and whos suppuort they seek for. How many of them can be considered as tightened democracies?
You´ll find Russia, Belarus Iran and Indonesia. Now they are begging Egypt, Libya, Sudan and Zimbamwe.
By the way all members of G7 (it is the G7 plus Russia, not the G8!) have recognized Kosovo as a sovereign state and will support it becoming an anchor for stability.

Nevertheless one should respect Serbia choice for its allies.
(Dimer Imer, 1 July 2008 10:56)"

So Spain, Portugal, Greece, Cyprus, Slovakia, Malta, Romania, Brazil, Argentina, Chile, Venezuela, Bolivia, Nicaragua, Mexico, Botswana, Zambia, Kenya, New Zealand, etc, etc. so by your logic are also not democracies. Guess what, they also support Serbia as does Indonesia which is also a democracy. My friend, these are also democratic countries who believe in the upholding of international law while your glorious allies US/UK ride roughshod over the very principles that they signed up to - democracy & human rights by invading sovereign states half way accross the world, inflicting death and misery on peoples and oh yes, overthrowing democratically elected governments. Just ask the people of Chile, Iran, Guatamala, Palestine, Venezuela, etc, etc.

"Hmmm, let's see...loyalty to Yugoslavia or multi-billion dollar US aid.

What would most African countries choose?

Tick tock I say.
(Funcakes, 1 July 2008 12:54)"

Tick-tock Funcakes. America is on the verge of bankruptcy. Its costing billions to finance its resource wars in Afghanistan and Iraq not to mention the subprime meltdown in the US financial institutions. So how do you expect that they Africa billons?

Oh wait, Dubya will concoct another WMD phoney balloney reason to invade Iran and get his hands on the oil.

B92,

PRN post is totally racist. The worst thing - it made all Albanian blind nationalists to show their true face by clicking constantly on RECOMMEND button. I am surprised that some even openly support it by another post. They have never been open before and have not had the courage to say something in your face. God bless Internet for them – they can show how brave they are and show the true face hidden in shadow of cyberspace.

B92 should take a lot responsibility for the post # 2 went through uncensored.

I avoid before mentioning common and proven FACT – the rating of Albanians in Europe and around the World. – Just be honest and do reality check – you will go back to earth or hide even deeper.

>> I avoid before mentioning common and proven FACT – the rating of Albanians in Europe and around the World.

I avoid before mentioning common and proven FACT – the rating of Serbs in Europe and around the World. (you should non-Serbian sites for a change, you'll see what I mean)

Gentlemens:

I simply just can't take lessons from Serbs on tolerance.

We Albanians gave to the world MOTHER THERESA.

You Serbs gave Radovan Karadzic and Ratko Mladic.

There should be some difference between those people, don’t you think?

So dear Serbs, pls refrain in preaching us the democracy and respect.

You made Srebrenica, Vukovar, Kosova not the aliens.

Hrb,

you are right in mentioning other tragedies in the world- and particularly liked the fact that you mentioned for the first Chechnya where unimaginable atrocities are made by the "defenders" of the International Law and as you might like it "anti-imperialists" RUSSIA.

Anyhow, pls refer to my post #9

Actually I put Africa and Kosova in the same line= both of them fight for their freedom. The only difference is that Africans got their freedom many years before Kosovars. Those are the FACTS as are facts the one that I mentioned in my previous post.

Now tale me more about the imperialism and democracy, please.

I can understand Ben and Albanians on this site (not to generalize with all Albanians); they are frustrated with their position in general. But their feeling of inferiority and possibility that they can come up from nowhere doesn’t give them the right and doesn’t help them at all to dump all that nonsense about Serbs, African people and others who don’t understand their frustration, blindness and limitations.

"we gave Mother Theresa to the world", Ben said... :)

yes, Ben! you gave the "death angel of Kolkatta" to the world!
just do a little bit research my dear albanian smart guy.

I would just like to add one other thing.

Being oppressed in the past does NOT MEAN that one's nation is entirely perfect. I am Jewish and we were persecuted continuously for 2000 years by almost every country in Europe. There are a number of historical and economic reasons for this and I don't really want to talk about what these might have been at length. However, in recent years we have had to face up to the fact that Jews like everyone else are not perfect and are indeed capable of terrible crimes, such as what happens in Palestine.

People have to face up to the fact, that no country or religion is perfect, not even theirs. Past oppression can only be used as an excuse to oppress others for so long, especailly when that oppression is backed up by powerful nations whose interests it is in to allow it.

To Stoning Rolle:
What the heck are you talking about or implying?? In fact why do you mention the "blue" and "green" race??As far as I'm concerned these races or ethnicities don't exist. Finally don't confuse reality with science fiction or even cryptozoology if that's what you're doing.

Jovan pls forward my posting as well #9.

Thanks

Well… maybe Robert Mugabe would support Serbia against the UK and the United States.

Good luck!

Funcakes, Ben, PRN and others,


Hmmm, let's see...loyalty to Yugoslavia or multi-billion dollar US aid.

What would most African countries choose?

Tick tock I say.
(Funcakes, 1 July 2008 12:54)

That’s great proving and fact how wrong you are. Strategy of your power masters is all that what you just said: blackmailing, pure pressure, arm-twisting, force and punishment.
On the other side – Serbia can offer just honest speech and “thank you” – And still it’s enough for most honest people and states not to bow – YOU SHOULD GET THE MESSAGE AND GO TO DICTIONARY AND FIND ONE WORD YOU DON’T KNOW STILL EXIST – MORAL.
If you are honest and intelligent you should get the message – all money and pressure can’t buy the justice and true –still outside modern drive-through McDonald democracy, people knows the word – MORAL. They choose hunger over IMMORAL-UNETHIC. A lot to learn from this!!!

Albo, Albanian camp,

You're still not getting the message. We all know what you think about Serbs, but this article is about African nations-people and your racism is to offend ALL AFRICAN people for no reason,
those are cheap shots. You're so blind AGAIN to get the point. We know your view and love for Serbs but don't hate the other people if they try to make honest or reasonable choice - and if it's against Albanian interests you bark and bite.

My parents are originally South African and left during apartheid because they didn't agree with what was happening.

As far as I know SA has no plans to recognise Kosovo. I am diusgusted by some of the racism of the comments on this thread.

It is understandable that people would dislike Serbs given the history and I do think that the Serbian GOVERNMENT did some awful things in Kosovo. But that is no excuse to insult African countries that simply disagree with a point of view that has little to do with their lives on a day to day basis.

I suspect the reason many African leaders are not recognising this is because they see it as a form of imperailism. And they are right. It is imperialism. Against a country that has been subject to various forms of oppression for hundreds of years. Not that that excuses anything that Serbs have done over the years, becuase it doesn't.

As for atrocities being seen "only in Africa" - what nonsense. Chechnya? Georgia? Palestine? Iraq? Vietnam? (I guess that doesn't count because the American soldiers were there to spread democracy - with Napalm). Krajina????

People imagine Africa is some forsaken land where lions walk around in the streets, everyone is starving and lives in a mud hut, when that is nonsense. Besides, didn't Burkina Faso recognise Kosovo a short while ago?

These views are typical from people I see on a regular basis, who tend to be quite over-educated, but not actually very clever or well informed about subjects they think they know all about, who think these things about Africa, and think that the West is consistently right in everything it does.

Hello Winds of Change,

You wrote, "As BEN explained there are alot of similarities between Africa and Serbia.

READ carefully his professional analysis please."

Explain where the "professional analysis" is please. All I see is rather inaccurate, misleading and disingenuous amateur rhetoric. There is no analysis (professional or otherwise) - just bland, unsubstantiated statements with little factual basis.

"As for atrocities being seen "only in Africa" - what nonsense. Chechnya? Georgia? Palestine? Iraq? Vietnam? (I guess that doesn't count because the American soldiers were there to spread democracy - with Napalm). Krajina????

People imagine Africa is some forsaken land where lions walk around in the streets, everyone is starving and lives in a mud hut, when that is nonsense. Besides, didn't Burkina Faso recognise Kosovo a short while ago?

These views are typical from people I see on a regular basis, who tend to be quite over-educated, but not actually very clever or well informed about subjects they think they know all about, who think these things about Africa, and think that the West is consistently right in everything it does.
(hrb, 2 July 2008 05:06)"

hrb, maybe this article will educate our Albanian friends about America's hugely influential role in supporting democracy and human rights in Africa.

http://www.antiwar.com/zunes/?articleid=13077

@ Niall - yes. Hard for African leaders to support US and British "democracy" when that democracy has led to the plundering of Africa's resources, famine, genocide over many centuries, and most recently a civil war and a joint US/Ethiopian military occupation of Somalia, a country with no government to speak of, where US planes routinely strike innocent villagers in search of "terrorists" .

@ Ben:

Thanks for your comment. I did mention Chechnya first for that reason. The politicians in the Russian state like those everywhere, are no angels. The Russian state, like France, like China, like the US, like the other members of the UN INsecurity Council is no angel. You will never see me apologising for its actions.

I am aware that the Serbian government was responsible for some terrible actions in Kosovo. However the way that the situation has been managed since that time, by the self proclaimed guardians of freedom and democracy in the world, has favoured one side over the other, without taking that side's views into consideration at all. It has also bestowed a false "independence" onto Kosovo's institutions which exists in only name - the people in control are actually from the EU and Nato.

I'm not a Serb or a Serb nationalist. I just think that the way the situation has been handled is not beneficial to anyone and some of the reports coming out of Kosovo right now concerning the Serb community are extremely worrying.

Take care ...

has favoured one side over the other, without taking that side's views into consideration at all.

Serb community are extremely worrying.

Take care ...
(Hrb, 2 July 2008 17:10)

Utterly wrong Hrb

1. What were the concerns of the post-colonial African countries that they addressed towards the "other" side teh colonisers? Did you compromise on you independece??? NO you didn't.

2. Kosova IS compromising. It has a SUPERVISED independence.

3. The rights of the Serbian micro-minority are addressed more than properly. It has been established a POSITIVE precedent about treatment of the minorities- the Serbian language is OFFICIL in teh ENTIRE country and many other rights. No such precedent of rights for minorities in the WORLD.

4. You are right to be worried regarding teh K-Serbs safety but do not be “extremely worried”. Be sure that things are going on the right direction (point 3) and as soon as the Russian's and Serbian Gov.t influence on teh K-Serbs will diminish teh things will go better.

Now guess who and how much is in danger.

And teh last please stop with that propaganda that Serbian Gov.t did some awful things in Kosova- since no intellectual, politicians or political party has ever condemn that and asked for apology.

Even the today's "democratic" Gov.t of Serbia has asked for apology.

When "democratic" PM of Serbia visit Kosova all they say is that Kosova is Serbia- but never ever asked an apology and condemn the acts of their state there. Neither today.

So you see it's not just Gov.t issue- it is something more and deeper, that's why there is no chance that Kosova remains part of Serbia.

P.S. if you put in teh same plate Russia, China and US, UK why didn't you emigrate in those countries rather than in the western Europe or US??

Democracies are not perfect but always refer to teh JFK speech in Berlin- the choice is easy.

Ben.

I am not a Serb and I do think that the Serbian government does, if it has any chance of fulfilling it's aims, need to do more, in order to get people's trust, apart from just saying "Kosovo is Serbia" as you said. It is very, very unlikely that Kosovo will revert to the direct rule of Belgrade any time soon. If this, equally unsuitable solution, had happened, then I would be equally angry about it because it would not take the rights of Albanians into account.

On the matter of "supervised independence" - this in practice means that Kosovo is not actually independent. Its politicians and institutions actually have very little power in practice. They can be sacked by foreigners at the drop of a hat. This does not benefit anyone apart from rich and powerful countries. It certainly does not benefit the normal people of Kosovo, either Serbs or Albanians. It effects means that Kosovo is a protectorate of the USA and Nato. This is not real independence.

I actually think that, if all sides were to agree to it, then Kosovo should become independent. But what has actually happened is that it isn't independent atall. And the Serb community are in a rather precarious situation.

As for your comparison between Kosovo and Africa - you are correct but I do not think you are right in the way that you intended. Africa's history is one in which colonial powers have drawn and redrawn borders to suit their own ends. Many African countries did indeed have to compromise on their independence. Historical states were split up and amalgamated into artificial creations with little in common with each other. The colonial legacy is one which has led to a huge, huge amount of suffering and violence that is still with those people today.

South Africa used to be a British colony until after the war, when power was handed over to an all-white Afrikaner government. Black people in South Africa DID have to compromise with their independence. They were subject to an illegal, oppressive system which pervaded all aspects of life, and was based on their supposed "inferiority".

I live in the UK. The reason I lumped these countries together is because they are the members of the UN security council, the "most important" countries in the world supposedly. I was born in the UK.

As for the minority rights issue - I have read the constitution and it does indeed make quite a lot of provisions for minorities in the country. You are right. However, this does not change the fact that there are some rather disturbing reports coming out of the area, such as Serbs not being able to visit certain towns, and such like. Now I am aware that Albanians experience similar difficulties going to majority-Serb areas and this also needs to be sorted out. There are too many divisions and I am worried that things will get worse.

As for the Serbs having the most rights of any minority in the world, I have to say that judging by the way that the UK, although it is not perfect, treats minorities, that you are wrong. Having a constitution that says such things is all very well but it needs to actually be implemented on the ground. Maybe it will be in future, I don't know but to be honest I'm not really filled with optimism.

I am not trying to have a go at you. I really hope that everything can be worked out, whatever evetually happens, for the good of everyone. I'm not automatically pro-Serb and anti-Albanian.

PRN,

Apart from your statement being discriminatory, racist and downright ignorant, your point is non-existant as well.

Africa is actually a continent, in case you were confused about your geography, whereas there are a lot of countires, with a lot of different cultures, languages and customs.
You're comparing a country to a continent.

What a lovely way to generalise and to eloquently represent the mentality of Albanians.

(hrb, 3 July 2008 02:05)

Hrb, thank you for your reply.

I hope too that the things will go in the right direction- it is a process and the Constitution is not a joke.

Anyhow, teh fact is that the hand of the K-Albanians is open but I don't see Serbs and K-Serbs walking towards that open hand: read comments of: (dd, 2 July 2008 18:24) or even more (Jovan, 2 July 2008 19:38).

Reading them I persive only hate and denial- and you?

P.S. I don't understand why the moderator cancelled the part where I was refering to the fact that the northern Mintrovica is cleaned ethnically and the Albanians that cannot reposess their houses and properties there even after 8 years after the war?? This is fact- not politics.

If what you have just said is true, Ben, then this is an illustration of how badly the so-called international community have handled this, for their own ends.

As for the comments of some of the Serb posters on this site - yes, I do not agree with a lot of the stuff that gets said, I think it is dusgusting and appalling. But equally hateful things have been said ABOUT serbs on this site as well.

Take care mate ...

(hrb, 3 July 2008 15:32)

Mitrovica was under the French responsabilty and Schirach...

cheers mate

ben,

you said, "I don't understand why the moderator cancelled the part where I was refering to the fact that the northern Mintrovica is cleaned ethnically and the Albanians that cannot reposess their houses and properties there even after 8 years after the war?? This is fact- not politics."

The answer is probably in you last few words. Northern Mitrovica has NOT been ethnically cleaned. Albanians still live north of the Ibar!

More proof that you are either deluded as to the reality or deliberately trying disseminate falsehoods.