Russia "warned" over Georgia move

Strange as it is but Saakashvili whom most of the Geogians now consider to be an open fascist has a reputation of a democrate in the West ...

Strange as it is but Saakashvili is proud to be born 21 of December i.e. the same day as J.Stalin ...

Strange as it is but Georgian nationalist Saakashvili as well as his main rival I.Okruashvili ( now in France) and J.Stalin are all of Ossetian origin with their mothers Georgians ...

Strange as it is but the Ossetians has twice defeated the Georgians without any support from Russia or anybody else while their population there is 85 less than that of the Georgians ...

ben

Russia has got a UNSC Mandate since 1994 which is prolonged every 6 months. So even you can guess that your US chiefs has voted for this Mandate about 28 times ever since ... Last time it happened 1 month ago despite the Georgians attempt to show us as a part in the conflicts. Yet this mission is considered the most successful in the history of UN peacemakers. About 150 Russian soldiers were killed during this missions. Try to count out which side has killed them.

By the way Russia is one of the most peaseful countries in the world to launch no wars abroad since 1990. Same is China (since 1979) , Iran (since 19 sentury) ect. What about your country ?
............

"Russian peacekeepers..."

I just can't stop laughing .. lol

this is insulting even for the inteligence of 5 year old kid ;)))

Russia, please let us know under which UNSEC resolution your "peacekeeping" troops are there? - since you are the "ULTIMATE DEFENDER" OF THE INTERNATIONAL LAW.. lol.. the Russia/Serbian hypocrisy is so funny ;))

Peter Sudyka

You know Peter I didn't mean anything but a few facts that may be of some people's interest. So please don't search for a second bottom here. I too disliked some of you posts here but I kept myself away with no chances to find a compromise with a Pole ... Anyway I'll give you a respond.

1. " Saakashvili did not murder countless "

*** He just had no such chances but two years ago he launched a war against the Ossetians with 103 men killed on the battlefield ( 102 Georgians and 1 Ossetian) and 5 more civillians ( an Ossetian family ) killed under a mine attack. Next thing Saakashvili have done you could see during the demostrations in Tbilisi. His rating now is 21 % and as usual he uses confrontation as a tool in his elections campaign.

2. "The UN has recognized these regions as a part of Georgia"

*** Who cares now of what this dying organisation thinks ? Also those people in Abkhasia and Ossetia have 100 times more rights for independence than the Kosovars. At least both of the two nations live here 2000 years and they entered Russia earlier than the Georgians did. Besides they don't hide behind the Russians like Albanians behind NATO and are able to defeat the agressors again.

3. "since you compare Saakashvili to Stalin"

*** Not me ! It's Saakashvili who is proud of this and every Georgian will tell it to you. As a Pole you should know a lot of them. So please check my info.

4. "this shows clearly where your stance is"

*** I am rather a radical. Here I agree with you.
...........

the indiependence of osetia & abhazia will be uniqe or sui generis or just tsar vladis will.

you can choose the explenation and even choose to mess with russia.

but nato definatly can´t "warn" russia.

that knows even american-voice B92!

adrian/bucharest

Good evening Adrian ! It's good that you don't hide were you are from. It makes the talks shorter. So I wonder :
1. Why do you think Hungarians in Transsilvania , Moldavans in Moldova and Russians in what you call Transnistria have no rights for independence ?

2. Why do you think the Moldovans do not join Romania.
3. Do you think the Moldovans have more problems with Russians in Dubossar than with Mother Romania ?
4. What about your recent territorial demands against Ukrain ? How does it meet your Atlantic choice ?
5. Who do you think has stopped the bloodshed in Dubossar when you brothers attacked the civillians ?
6. What do you think of the armamennts we have there while Smirnov doesn't let it's transportation ?
7. Do you know that even if Romania joins Voronin in a new war against Smirnov he will no doubt defeat you both without any Russian support ? So we guard not the Russians there but the brother Orthodox Moldovans.
8. Why do you think Moldovan gastarbaiters more often come to Russia but not Romania. ?

Adrian if you still insist I can respond for your post directly but I am afraid you will not like it. I am not the one you can play the facts with.

The US & brussels chose to ignore international law when they recognised the K-albanian Unilateral Declaration of Independence. They tried to legitimise this action by calling the illegal UDI a 'unique' case.

And now they are bleating about Georgia's 'territorial integrity'. Seems Kosovo might not be so unique afterall.

You reap what you sow.

ben:
Am 'glad' you can find something to laugh about. Am sure most of the people in Georgia on both sides do not find anything funny in this situation.

But then again, my guess is that the only thing you really care about is that the west recognises Kosovo. So if international norms are ripped to shreds & precedents established.. who cares - right.

ben

" your Gov't has always been a bull and continues to be a bull. Occupies sovereign countries and denies the independence to other nations Chechnya and the entire Caucasian region."

Well Ben I'll respond somehow though it's hard to argue when there's so much lies in just one short phrase. If you didn't avoid responding my question about where you hate us from we could compare our two countries for their honesty in politics. But because you are afraid of such a comparison you may remain unidentified. Let's talk about Russia though it has little to do with the original post of mine.

1. We are born to behave what you call like bulls. Although if compared with your beloved US we are just innocent rabbits to harm no one. I agree that people everywhere should be equal but please don't tell me that in international politics Burkina Faso is equal to China. Big powers has always ruled the world and it's gonna last forever no matter what propaganda dominates today.

2.We occupy no one. We only have several peacemaker missions abroad all with international mandates. Those missions has stopped 3 wars and upto now are considered the most successful of the kind.

3. If under "independence of other nations" you mean Georgia and Ukraine then you should know that both of the nations were created by Ruussians.

In 1922 Soviet communists ( then mostly of Jewish origin )desided that Russians living in the South since then on should be considered as a new nation. It took them several years to explain it to the Russian people to live there. Moreover in 1924 big Russian regions were legalized as Ukrainians. In 1954 Russia gave them Krimea ec. Finally 80% of today's Ukrain is not historically what they call Ukrainian.

Georgians has also never existed as a nation and there even was no such a word before Russia desided to set free the Orthodox Kartli tribes from Iran. All the tribes fought each other and were at the edge of utmost elimination. Before that Imeretian tsars along 60 years about 40 times asked Russia to save them before Irakli -2 was successful to persuade Russia to launch a war against Iran to save the hostile to each other Kartli tribes. So before 1991 when we set Georgia free they never existed as a separate state while the Ossetians and the Abkhasians did. The problem came when Georgians dicided to leave USSR together with the Ossetians and Abkhaisans who had joined Russia with their own lands much earlier than the Kartli trbes. It's just what the K-Albanians do now to the Serbs !

There were 3 wars we launched to save Georgia with 2 of them against Iran and 1 against Turkey. Those were severe wars and in 1812 when united Europe under Bonapart attacked us one Russian army was still in Georgia cause the second war has stopped that very year. Later the Communists included to Georgia some lands that had never been Kartli ones and it was not only Ossetia and Abkhasia but 3 more regions. Today national minorities compose about 10 % of Georgia's population while 20 years ago it was 40% ...

3. If you talk of Chechnia I offer you to read new papers. Yours are too old. Chechnia is a prospering Russian province with rather loyal population. I have Chechen (Nohchi ) friend and can tell you the details if you wish. Just one remark : the two batallions Russia has resently added to it's pecemaker forces are 100% composed of the Chechen people. Special batalion VOSTOK is deployed in Abkhasia and the other one (ZAPAD) in the South of Ossetia. All because there's no need for them in Chechnia. By the way part of batalion VOSTOK has a peacemeker mission in Lebanon.

Kosovo and Abhkhazia are two different matters altogether...

One is a historical reality, other a military occupation!

Abkhazian people were never a part of Georgia and never will be...just as Kosovo was always a part of Serbia and always will be...!

Russian given warning ..... oooooooh ..... I am sure the Kremlin must be shaking with fear now ..... and their trembling hands may just "accidentally" switch off the gas pipes.

adrian bucharest

Adrian what I like in your post is that you call spade a spade. Thanks ! By the way I live in Moscow. Well I don't think we have to go to further details on the problems touched. We both can add no information able to change the other side's approach. We both talk as human beings but not as FM of the two states (what a pity !) so I'll just tell how I see the whole situation in the Region.

1. Moldova will never return to Romania because their elite wants to enjoy the advantages of an independent state. Their Defence Minister doesn't want to head a division somewhere in Constantsa ect. As you know it's a general tendention to have nothing to Russia or any other state. There were 52 original members of the UN and now there are some 200 of them. All because that even in such poor countries as Moldova , Georgia or Kirgizstan there's quite enough money and state posts for few thouthands to compose the local elite. It was predicted by R.Reigan that the time to come will be the time of nationalism and it proved to be true. All we can do is to find a way to escape wars and satisfy the elites because nobody cares of the peoples.

2.Many solutions in the region and the other places will come as a pack of compromises between the most active powers to influence the world i.e. the US and us.

3.I personally don't mind the Transnistria to be included to the Ukraine but because they hate the Orangists I don't believe Yushenko and the gang will do this. Yet next year may become fatal to the Ukraine's economy and there may be changes first to tie and then to untie some of the local problems.

4. Romania have not burnt the bridges behind like Geogia ,Poland or Latvia and thus we can recover the relations as soon as the situation in the world changes for better.

5. Pro-Serbian positions of Bucharest are based ONLY on national interests but in no case of the feeling of justice or sympathy for the Serbs.

Good luck !

The difference is that while when US is doing a thing the entire world knows about (it is called DEMOCRACY, FREE Press etc)

Someday, someone will die laughing reading these remarks...:)))

Free Elections indeed - With Delegates who change preferences every two days and about 100 undecided Super-Delegates that decide the course of US elections for about 300 million Americans...

Who are these SD, BTW, and precisely why are they there...what's their exact role...some American 'poll pundit' please explain...?

vencor

I am not happy at all about Stalin but he didn't kill millions as you mean it. He did other things that drew to countless losses we suffered during WW2. But the figures you mean are unproved propaganda duck. So don't be a victim. During the repressions the killed in no case were counted by millions. All documents are open now and you can check it.

Yet Stalin was the one who most powerful state and established the world we partly still live in. Maybe not the best option but yet.

Good evening Drug! (sorry if eventual misunderstandings of chirilic alphabet might have confused me on your nickname)
Why should I hide something? Where are you from? (city)
Your wonders:
1. small hint:Moldovans=Moldavians are Romanians, like Belgraders are Serbians. Everybody has the right to be independent, but that has to be possible, viable and not disregard the rights of others and intl law. Generally, the Romanian regular people rethoric on Transnistria is that it has never belonged to Romania and nobody wants it, but there the game is much more complicated and the federation thing Putin is trying to sell now, kindda stinks.
2. Because the elite was brainwashed and raised in the soviet schools while communities of romanians started to apper in Siberia, but most important because everybody fears that swallowing Rep Moldova would mean swallowing a lot of ex-KGB. As far as the opinion of the general population there, they have been living in USSR so you should now that sometimes they say one thing and smoke something else. It's up to them to decide, but they deserve freedom and a better life and the conflict is only keeping them behind.
3. It would take me 1000 pages to answer that one, but in the end yes I think with the russians. The government here was always accused by the people in Rep Moldova of not getting involved enough. If that was the question (might have not understood it).
4. There was no territorial claim against Ukraine. The Romanian President was giving a hard answer to what the ukrainians were saying in order to compensate the impotence of replying of Voronin. Historic truth is though that territory was romanian.
5. You still believe that? But anyway, isn't that the opposite of the russian attitude with Serbia and Kosovo.
6. The weapons there are good mostly for terrorist attacks, but of course again, russia signs something in Istanbul and then smokes something else.
7. thanks for the good laugh :).
8. I know the romanians in Moldova go to work more in germany, spain, italy, romania and greece and the ukrainians and russians in russia. But also what you say could be understandable, it would be easier cause the system would be more or less similar with theirs, given the recent soviet experience. But, i know lots of them around here.

Anyway, still the situation in the three cases is identical and Russia should be careful cause everything in Georgia will be reflected, at least in behind closed doors talks, on Kosovo. And I care more about Serbia.
Good night!

" This is what makes me and you different ДРУГ..."

============================
I am ДРУГ for the Serbs and not for you. You may call me ВРАГ that is the Russian for ENEMY. We are different not because you cannot spell right Kosovo but because my country stands by the Serbs side and ruin your shameless plans to tear apart this country. You didn't fight the Serbs face to face as the Croats did but you brought other nations to establish disaster. So no matter what I tell you you will not accept not a single argument. You are deaf to hear the truth. You want to hear only what you want to hear. My regrets !

Moreover it's hard to comment the out of mind things your post is composed of. What assimilation of the Chechen people you are talking of if only 10% of them can speak decent Russian ? You don't know this people or you would know that they cannot live in cages like you do in the Serbian province. Besides why do you think you have a right for independence and the Ossetians and the Abkhas or Serbs in Mitrovice and Bani Luka don't have such rights ?

Your Snake has opened the Pandora box and now we are going to feed you up with those snakes inside. Don't worry about the US ! They will betray you as soon as they feel a threat to themselves. It's just what now happening to Georgia. Folow the events there to make prognosis for the developments in K & M.

Outside the goldem billion Russia is the most respected power. 6 other billions all over the world look at us with great hope as the only power able to defend them from the ugly world the US is striving to compose. I am not here to blame you cause you are a prisoner there. All your words and deeds are canalised and quite predicted.

And the last thing you should know. We bahave different cause many decades we were building tanks and missiles instead of chewing gums and cars. So now we are the only one power your beloved Yankees cannot impose anything that doesn't meet our interests. They know we can turn the whole NATO into powder any day we like. It only depend on the mood of our President and nothing else. Still we seek no confrontation. We are the corner stone of peace in the world.

Kosovo i Metohija je Srbija

ДРУГ

Saakashvili did not murder countless millions of people. The UN has recognized these regions as a part of Georgia, the same way Russia advocates Kosovo remaining a part of Serbia. The West is capable of massive double standards, don't let this become a part of the Russian mentality too (since you compare Saakashvili to Stalin, I think this shows clearly where your stance is).

J.Stalin is of Ossetian origin with mother Georgians .-

No wonder he defeated the Nazis as well as killed millions of others...!

A Ossetian/Georgian mix can be volatile indeed!

ДРУГ- your Gov't has always been a bull and continues to be a bull. Occupies sovereign countries and denies the independence to other nations Chechnya and the entire Caucasian region.

The difference is that while when US is doing a thing the entire world knows about (it is called DEMOCRACY, FREE Press etc- an unknown synonyms for an average Russian I am sure), and what are you doing in Chechnya no one knows- since no one can enter Chechnya neither the International red Cross. Chechnyan language is dying because of your occupation and as result of total abrogation of the educational system in Chechnyan language favouring the ASSIMILATION in Russian.

This is the reality ДРУГ and you have to face it- in order to build more democratic Russia, for yourselves.

"Russian peacekeeping forces there" - yeah right! and I am the Easter Bunny!
Same as the peace keeping forces in Transnistria, keeping the "peace" by occupying the sovereign territorry of another country.
And people wonder why nobody takes Russia seriously on Kosovo issue when they are doing in Georgia and Rep of Moldova the same thing that they are standing against in what regards Kosovo. Legally all the three situations are the same.
Ever wondered where the weapons from the deposits of the Soviet 14th Army in Transnistria went? Sudan, Somalia... some "liberation army" in a country of brothers

ДРУГ, what you described is a pure Russian hegemonism. You twisted teh entire history to your favour ignoring teh fact that there are two DIFFERENT nation from Russian: Gergian and Chechnyn and you don't respect them.

I have no hate towards Russians not at all. I have Russian friends. Another thing is the mentality and your Bolshevik/Hegemonistic policy- that even emancipated Russian, like you, are not avear of it- simply build in as a part of your culture, unfortunately.

I am speking of values not about manipulation. The fact that you send the Chechnyans to fight your war against Georgians is only sad and tals about your hypocrisy- how you can manipulate poor peole with petrol dollars- that's all.

What you, as an emnacipated Russain should ask is:

why any international organisation cannot visit Chechnya? what is going on there that needs to be hiden???

why the Chechnyan culture, language is dying??? Assimilation??? why should you assimilate them?? why not respect their culture and being different from you Russians???

About Georgia you should ask:

Why my Gov.t that officialy recognizes one contry as independent and sovreign does not respect the terrotorial integrity of the same country that freely has recognized??? (whatch teh headlines of the article in which you are posting if you think to answer me like: we Russians have nothing to do with that it's Ossetians, please)

You said to Adrian that once there were 50 countries memebr of UN now 200. In my oppinion, this means that the world is getting more DEMOCRATIC and in your oppinion this is a mistake- recognizing countries like Moldova and Georgia.

This is what makes me and you different ДРУГ- you understand this don't you?

This is why democracies have recognized Kosova (hopefully tomorrow Tibet, Darfur etc) and Russia did not.

To vencor:

"Abkhazian people were never a part of Georgia and never will be...just as Kosovo was always a part of Serbia and always will be...!"

so, why Kosova breaked away from Serbia than???

Wouldve ever break away from Abania?? I don't think. Why?

becaouse Kosovars are part of the Albanian nation and Kosova is Albanian province not Serbian.

Because Kosova was forced to be a Serbian province that's why there is (or better, WAS) a problem, otherwise (Kosova being part of Albania), teh Kosova issiue would never exists.

And finaly if there are any tensions in Kosova is because Russai wants this problem- not because there is realy a problem. Again the problems to Kosova are coming from outside- form the north.

ДРУГ, I guess you run out of argumenets and your true face came out- a BULL, just as your politics, President etc. This is what I was saying in the very beginning.

Regarding teh 'face to face' issue, although quite ridiculous, you should know that in teh very first begining the Serbian position on the KLA apparence was that it is a 'Serbian internal affair of public order'. Hence Serbia tryied during the 1997/1998 to fight back KLA with the security troops- Police abd special units of teh army. Guess what happened? KLA in 1998 according to all observers was controlling almost 50%of KosovA and during the night only the urban areas were under Serbian controle.

To change this Serbs sent teh heavely armed army tanks, artilery (made and trained in Russia of course) etc. And than mass murderes happened- of course you don't care about it.

As you can see not really glory times for you litle brothers even that you were arming and training them for decades, especialy in the light that they were confronting kosovar farmes with AK47, don't you think?

What do you think what will happen if US gives teh same military support to Kosova as you are doing with Serbia for decades? ;)

intsead of weasting time with why don't you try to give some mature nswers to my questons above regarding Gruzia and Chechnya?

P.S. I am not interested in your friendship at all- it's just your nick name- if you know what that means

"Russian peacekeepers..."

I just can't stop laughing .. lol

this is insulting even for the inteligence of 5 year old kid ;)))

Russia, please let us know under which UNSEC resolution your "peacekeeping" troops are there? - since you are the "ULTIMATE DEFENDER" OF THE INTERNATIONAL LAW.. lol.. the Russia/Serbian hypocrisy is so funny ;))

ДРУГ- your Gov't has always been a bull and continues to be a bull. Occupies sovereign countries and denies the independence to other nations Chechnya and the entire Caucasian region.

The difference is that while when US is doing a thing the entire world knows about (it is called DEMOCRACY, FREE Press etc- an unknown synonyms for an average Russian I am sure), and what are you doing in Chechnya no one knows- since no one can enter Chechnya neither the International red Cross. Chechnyan language is dying because of your occupation and as result of total abrogation of the educational system in Chechnyan language favouring the ASSIMILATION in Russian.

This is the reality ДРУГ and you have to face it- in order to build more democratic Russia, for yourselves.

Good evening Drug! (sorry if eventual misunderstandings of chirilic alphabet might have confused me on your nickname)
Why should I hide something? Where are you from? (city)
Your wonders:
1. small hint:Moldovans=Moldavians are Romanians, like Belgraders are Serbians. Everybody has the right to be independent, but that has to be possible, viable and not disregard the rights of others and intl law. Generally, the Romanian regular people rethoric on Transnistria is that it has never belonged to Romania and nobody wants it, but there the game is much more complicated and the federation thing Putin is trying to sell now, kindda stinks.
2. Because the elite was brainwashed and raised in the soviet schools while communities of romanians started to apper in Siberia, but most important because everybody fears that swallowing Rep Moldova would mean swallowing a lot of ex-KGB. As far as the opinion of the general population there, they have been living in USSR so you should now that sometimes they say one thing and smoke something else. It's up to them to decide, but they deserve freedom and a better life and the conflict is only keeping them behind.
3. It would take me 1000 pages to answer that one, but in the end yes I think with the russians. The government here was always accused by the people in Rep Moldova of not getting involved enough. If that was the question (might have not understood it).
4. There was no territorial claim against Ukraine. The Romanian President was giving a hard answer to what the ukrainians were saying in order to compensate the impotence of replying of Voronin. Historic truth is though that territory was romanian.
5. You still believe that? But anyway, isn't that the opposite of the russian attitude with Serbia and Kosovo.
6. The weapons there are good mostly for terrorist attacks, but of course again, russia signs something in Istanbul and then smokes something else.
7. thanks for the good laugh :).
8. I know the romanians in Moldova go to work more in germany, spain, italy, romania and greece and the ukrainians and russians in russia. But also what you say could be understandable, it would be easier cause the system would be more or less similar with theirs, given the recent soviet experience. But, i know lots of them around here.

Anyway, still the situation in the three cases is identical and Russia should be careful cause everything in Georgia will be reflected, at least in behind closed doors talks, on Kosovo. And I care more about Serbia.
Good night!

Strange as it is but Saakashvili whom most of the Geogians now consider to be an open fascist has a reputation of a democrate in the West ...

Strange as it is but Saakashvili is proud to be born 21 of December i.e. the same day as J.Stalin ...

Strange as it is but Georgian nationalist Saakashvili as well as his main rival I.Okruashvili ( now in France) and J.Stalin are all of Ossetian origin with their mothers Georgians ...

Strange as it is but the Ossetians has twice defeated the Georgians without any support from Russia or anybody else while their population there is 85 less than that of the Georgians ...

J.Stalin is of Ossetian origin with mother Georgians .-

No wonder he defeated the Nazis as well as killed millions of others...!

A Ossetian/Georgian mix can be volatile indeed!

the indiependence of osetia & abhazia will be uniqe or sui generis or just tsar vladis will.

you can choose the explenation and even choose to mess with russia.

but nato definatly can´t "warn" russia.

that knows even american-voice B92!

Peter Sudyka

You know Peter I didn't mean anything but a few facts that may be of some people's interest. So please don't search for a second bottom here. I too disliked some of you posts here but I kept myself away with no chances to find a compromise with a Pole ... Anyway I'll give you a respond.

1. " Saakashvili did not murder countless "

*** He just had no such chances but two years ago he launched a war against the Ossetians with 103 men killed on the battlefield ( 102 Georgians and 1 Ossetian) and 5 more civillians ( an Ossetian family ) killed under a mine attack. Next thing Saakashvili have done you could see during the demostrations in Tbilisi. His rating now is 21 % and as usual he uses confrontation as a tool in his elections campaign.

2. "The UN has recognized these regions as a part of Georgia"

*** Who cares now of what this dying organisation thinks ? Also those people in Abkhasia and Ossetia have 100 times more rights for independence than the Kosovars. At least both of the two nations live here 2000 years and they entered Russia earlier than the Georgians did. Besides they don't hide behind the Russians like Albanians behind NATO and are able to defeat the agressors again.

3. "since you compare Saakashvili to Stalin"

*** Not me ! It's Saakashvili who is proud of this and every Georgian will tell it to you. As a Pole you should know a lot of them. So please check my info.

4. "this shows clearly where your stance is"

*** I am rather a radical. Here I agree with you.
...........

"Russian peacekeeping forces there" - yeah right! and I am the Easter Bunny!
Same as the peace keeping forces in Transnistria, keeping the "peace" by occupying the sovereign territorry of another country.
And people wonder why nobody takes Russia seriously on Kosovo issue when they are doing in Georgia and Rep of Moldova the same thing that they are standing against in what regards Kosovo. Legally all the three situations are the same.
Ever wondered where the weapons from the deposits of the Soviet 14th Army in Transnistria went? Sudan, Somalia... some "liberation army" in a country of brothers

ben

Russia has got a UNSC Mandate since 1994 which is prolonged every 6 months. So even you can guess that your US chiefs has voted for this Mandate about 28 times ever since ... Last time it happened 1 month ago despite the Georgians attempt to show us as a part in the conflicts. Yet this mission is considered the most successful in the history of UN peacemakers. About 150 Russian soldiers were killed during this missions. Try to count out which side has killed them.

By the way Russia is one of the most peaseful countries in the world to launch no wars abroad since 1990. Same is China (since 1979) , Iran (since 19 sentury) ect. What about your country ?
............

The US & brussels chose to ignore international law when they recognised the K-albanian Unilateral Declaration of Independence. They tried to legitimise this action by calling the illegal UDI a 'unique' case.

And now they are bleating about Georgia's 'territorial integrity'. Seems Kosovo might not be so unique afterall.

You reap what you sow.

ben:
Am 'glad' you can find something to laugh about. Am sure most of the people in Georgia on both sides do not find anything funny in this situation.

But then again, my guess is that the only thing you really care about is that the west recognises Kosovo. So if international norms are ripped to shreds & precedents established.. who cares - right.

vencor

I am not happy at all about Stalin but he didn't kill millions as you mean it. He did other things that drew to countless losses we suffered during WW2. But the figures you mean are unproved propaganda duck. So don't be a victim. During the repressions the killed in no case were counted by millions. All documents are open now and you can check it.

Yet Stalin was the one who most powerful state and established the world we partly still live in. Maybe not the best option but yet.

adrian/bucharest

Good evening Adrian ! It's good that you don't hide were you are from. It makes the talks shorter. So I wonder :
1. Why do you think Hungarians in Transsilvania , Moldavans in Moldova and Russians in what you call Transnistria have no rights for independence ?

2. Why do you think the Moldovans do not join Romania.
3. Do you think the Moldovans have more problems with Russians in Dubossar than with Mother Romania ?
4. What about your recent territorial demands against Ukrain ? How does it meet your Atlantic choice ?
5. Who do you think has stopped the bloodshed in Dubossar when you brothers attacked the civillians ?
6. What do you think of the armamennts we have there while Smirnov doesn't let it's transportation ?
7. Do you know that even if Romania joins Voronin in a new war against Smirnov he will no doubt defeat you both without any Russian support ? So we guard not the Russians there but the brother Orthodox Moldovans.
8. Why do you think Moldovan gastarbaiters more often come to Russia but not Romania. ?

Adrian if you still insist I can respond for your post directly but I am afraid you will not like it. I am not the one you can play the facts with.

Russian given warning ..... oooooooh ..... I am sure the Kremlin must be shaking with fear now ..... and their trembling hands may just "accidentally" switch off the gas pipes.

ДРУГ

Saakashvili did not murder countless millions of people. The UN has recognized these regions as a part of Georgia, the same way Russia advocates Kosovo remaining a part of Serbia. The West is capable of massive double standards, don't let this become a part of the Russian mentality too (since you compare Saakashvili to Stalin, I think this shows clearly where your stance is).

ben

" your Gov't has always been a bull and continues to be a bull. Occupies sovereign countries and denies the independence to other nations Chechnya and the entire Caucasian region."

Well Ben I'll respond somehow though it's hard to argue when there's so much lies in just one short phrase. If you didn't avoid responding my question about where you hate us from we could compare our two countries for their honesty in politics. But because you are afraid of such a comparison you may remain unidentified. Let's talk about Russia though it has little to do with the original post of mine.

1. We are born to behave what you call like bulls. Although if compared with your beloved US we are just innocent rabbits to harm no one. I agree that people everywhere should be equal but please don't tell me that in international politics Burkina Faso is equal to China. Big powers has always ruled the world and it's gonna last forever no matter what propaganda dominates today.

2.We occupy no one. We only have several peacemaker missions abroad all with international mandates. Those missions has stopped 3 wars and upto now are considered the most successful of the kind.

3. If under "independence of other nations" you mean Georgia and Ukraine then you should know that both of the nations were created by Ruussians.

In 1922 Soviet communists ( then mostly of Jewish origin )desided that Russians living in the South since then on should be considered as a new nation. It took them several years to explain it to the Russian people to live there. Moreover in 1924 big Russian regions were legalized as Ukrainians. In 1954 Russia gave them Krimea ec. Finally 80% of today's Ukrain is not historically what they call Ukrainian.

Georgians has also never existed as a nation and there even was no such a word before Russia desided to set free the Orthodox Kartli tribes from Iran. All the tribes fought each other and were at the edge of utmost elimination. Before that Imeretian tsars along 60 years about 40 times asked Russia to save them before Irakli -2 was successful to persuade Russia to launch a war against Iran to save the hostile to each other Kartli tribes. So before 1991 when we set Georgia free they never existed as a separate state while the Ossetians and the Abkhasians did. The problem came when Georgians dicided to leave USSR together with the Ossetians and Abkhaisans who had joined Russia with their own lands much earlier than the Kartli trbes. It's just what the K-Albanians do now to the Serbs !

There were 3 wars we launched to save Georgia with 2 of them against Iran and 1 against Turkey. Those were severe wars and in 1812 when united Europe under Bonapart attacked us one Russian army was still in Georgia cause the second war has stopped that very year. Later the Communists included to Georgia some lands that had never been Kartli ones and it was not only Ossetia and Abkhasia but 3 more regions. Today national minorities compose about 10 % of Georgia's population while 20 years ago it was 40% ...

3. If you talk of Chechnia I offer you to read new papers. Yours are too old. Chechnia is a prospering Russian province with rather loyal population. I have Chechen (Nohchi ) friend and can tell you the details if you wish. Just one remark : the two batallions Russia has resently added to it's pecemaker forces are 100% composed of the Chechen people. Special batalion VOSTOK is deployed in Abkhasia and the other one (ZAPAD) in the South of Ossetia. All because there's no need for them in Chechnia. By the way part of batalion VOSTOK has a peacemeker mission in Lebanon.

adrian bucharest

Adrian what I like in your post is that you call spade a spade. Thanks ! By the way I live in Moscow. Well I don't think we have to go to further details on the problems touched. We both can add no information able to change the other side's approach. We both talk as human beings but not as FM of the two states (what a pity !) so I'll just tell how I see the whole situation in the Region.

1. Moldova will never return to Romania because their elite wants to enjoy the advantages of an independent state. Their Defence Minister doesn't want to head a division somewhere in Constantsa ect. As you know it's a general tendention to have nothing to Russia or any other state. There were 52 original members of the UN and now there are some 200 of them. All because that even in such poor countries as Moldova , Georgia or Kirgizstan there's quite enough money and state posts for few thouthands to compose the local elite. It was predicted by R.Reigan that the time to come will be the time of nationalism and it proved to be true. All we can do is to find a way to escape wars and satisfy the elites because nobody cares of the peoples.

2.Many solutions in the region and the other places will come as a pack of compromises between the most active powers to influence the world i.e. the US and us.

3.I personally don't mind the Transnistria to be included to the Ukraine but because they hate the Orangists I don't believe Yushenko and the gang will do this. Yet next year may become fatal to the Ukraine's economy and there may be changes first to tie and then to untie some of the local problems.

4. Romania have not burnt the bridges behind like Geogia ,Poland or Latvia and thus we can recover the relations as soon as the situation in the world changes for better.

5. Pro-Serbian positions of Bucharest are based ONLY on national interests but in no case of the feeling of justice or sympathy for the Serbs.

Good luck !

Kosovo and Abhkhazia are two different matters altogether...

One is a historical reality, other a military occupation!

Abkhazian people were never a part of Georgia and never will be...just as Kosovo was always a part of Serbia and always will be...!

The difference is that while when US is doing a thing the entire world knows about (it is called DEMOCRACY, FREE Press etc)

Someday, someone will die laughing reading these remarks...:)))

Free Elections indeed - With Delegates who change preferences every two days and about 100 undecided Super-Delegates that decide the course of US elections for about 300 million Americans...

Who are these SD, BTW, and precisely why are they there...what's their exact role...some American 'poll pundit' please explain...?

ДРУГ, what you described is a pure Russian hegemonism. You twisted teh entire history to your favour ignoring teh fact that there are two DIFFERENT nation from Russian: Gergian and Chechnyn and you don't respect them.

I have no hate towards Russians not at all. I have Russian friends. Another thing is the mentality and your Bolshevik/Hegemonistic policy- that even emancipated Russian, like you, are not avear of it- simply build in as a part of your culture, unfortunately.

I am speking of values not about manipulation. The fact that you send the Chechnyans to fight your war against Georgians is only sad and tals about your hypocrisy- how you can manipulate poor peole with petrol dollars- that's all.

What you, as an emnacipated Russain should ask is:

why any international organisation cannot visit Chechnya? what is going on there that needs to be hiden???

why the Chechnyan culture, language is dying??? Assimilation??? why should you assimilate them?? why not respect their culture and being different from you Russians???

About Georgia you should ask:

Why my Gov.t that officialy recognizes one contry as independent and sovreign does not respect the terrotorial integrity of the same country that freely has recognized??? (whatch teh headlines of the article in which you are posting if you think to answer me like: we Russians have nothing to do with that it's Ossetians, please)

You said to Adrian that once there were 50 countries memebr of UN now 200. In my oppinion, this means that the world is getting more DEMOCRATIC and in your oppinion this is a mistake- recognizing countries like Moldova and Georgia.

This is what makes me and you different ДРУГ- you understand this don't you?

This is why democracies have recognized Kosova (hopefully tomorrow Tibet, Darfur etc) and Russia did not.

To vencor:

"Abkhazian people were never a part of Georgia and never will be...just as Kosovo was always a part of Serbia and always will be...!"

so, why Kosova breaked away from Serbia than???

Wouldve ever break away from Abania?? I don't think. Why?

becaouse Kosovars are part of the Albanian nation and Kosova is Albanian province not Serbian.

Because Kosova was forced to be a Serbian province that's why there is (or better, WAS) a problem, otherwise (Kosova being part of Albania), teh Kosova issiue would never exists.

And finaly if there are any tensions in Kosova is because Russai wants this problem- not because there is realy a problem. Again the problems to Kosova are coming from outside- form the north.

" This is what makes me and you different ДРУГ..."

============================
I am ДРУГ for the Serbs and not for you. You may call me ВРАГ that is the Russian for ENEMY. We are different not because you cannot spell right Kosovo but because my country stands by the Serbs side and ruin your shameless plans to tear apart this country. You didn't fight the Serbs face to face as the Croats did but you brought other nations to establish disaster. So no matter what I tell you you will not accept not a single argument. You are deaf to hear the truth. You want to hear only what you want to hear. My regrets !

Moreover it's hard to comment the out of mind things your post is composed of. What assimilation of the Chechen people you are talking of if only 10% of them can speak decent Russian ? You don't know this people or you would know that they cannot live in cages like you do in the Serbian province. Besides why do you think you have a right for independence and the Ossetians and the Abkhas or Serbs in Mitrovice and Bani Luka don't have such rights ?

Your Snake has opened the Pandora box and now we are going to feed you up with those snakes inside. Don't worry about the US ! They will betray you as soon as they feel a threat to themselves. It's just what now happening to Georgia. Folow the events there to make prognosis for the developments in K & M.

Outside the goldem billion Russia is the most respected power. 6 other billions all over the world look at us with great hope as the only power able to defend them from the ugly world the US is striving to compose. I am not here to blame you cause you are a prisoner there. All your words and deeds are canalised and quite predicted.

And the last thing you should know. We bahave different cause many decades we were building tanks and missiles instead of chewing gums and cars. So now we are the only one power your beloved Yankees cannot impose anything that doesn't meet our interests. They know we can turn the whole NATO into powder any day we like. It only depend on the mood of our President and nothing else. Still we seek no confrontation. We are the corner stone of peace in the world.

Kosovo i Metohija je Srbija

ДРУГ, I guess you run out of argumenets and your true face came out- a BULL, just as your politics, President etc. This is what I was saying in the very beginning.

Regarding teh 'face to face' issue, although quite ridiculous, you should know that in teh very first begining the Serbian position on the KLA apparence was that it is a 'Serbian internal affair of public order'. Hence Serbia tryied during the 1997/1998 to fight back KLA with the security troops- Police abd special units of teh army. Guess what happened? KLA in 1998 according to all observers was controlling almost 50%of KosovA and during the night only the urban areas were under Serbian controle.

To change this Serbs sent teh heavely armed army tanks, artilery (made and trained in Russia of course) etc. And than mass murderes happened- of course you don't care about it.

As you can see not really glory times for you litle brothers even that you were arming and training them for decades, especialy in the light that they were confronting kosovar farmes with AK47, don't you think?

What do you think what will happen if US gives teh same military support to Kosova as you are doing with Serbia for decades? ;)

intsead of weasting time with why don't you try to give some mature nswers to my questons above regarding Gruzia and Chechnya?

P.S. I am not interested in your friendship at all- it's just your nick name- if you know what that means