K. Albanians won't launch organ trafficking probe

They are essentially admitting guilt when not investigating such serious claims.

However, this opens the way for an international probe.

They protest a little too loudly.

If they had nothing to hide, they would not be so adamantly against an investigation.

If hey they do, we would all know where 9 million for Hardinajs defense case came from.

Why not investigate? What do they have to hide?

its maybe 3000 kosovars are still missing,and serbia is not telling where thay have buryed them
(Agon, 13 April 2008 17:37)
--
Ask Thaci, he may know. The KLA were killing and kidnapping Albanians also.

If I was guilty I wouldn't launch an investigation against myself either. But if I was without guilt then I would happily launch an investigation to clear my name. Thacis action speaks for itself.

What a great way for an "independent democratic country" to behave. Any other "real" democratic country would take these accusations very seriously and launch complete investigation immediately. That is, unless they already know the truth (Hashim Thaci). You know what they say, the best offense is defense and that is why they are attacking Ms. Del Ponte. Their lawsuits may just turn around to bite them and really bring out the truth.

> The Kosovo Albanian government will not investigate Carla Del Ponte's claims that Kosovo Serbs were kidnapped to have their organs removed.

> As for the leading Kosovo Albanian human rights NGO, Council for Human Rights and Freedoms, they dismissed the Del Ponte claims as "pure lies".

> The daily adds that the Human Rights Watch request to Thaci to start an investigation into the allegations, made public this week, "will also not be considered".


Agon:
> its maybe 3000 kosovars are still missing,and serbia is not telling where thay have buryed them

The most recent edition of the ICRC's 'book of the missing' for Kosovo lists some 2047 people still missing of which a substantial percentage are serb - including the 300 referred to in the article.

So your statement was made either out of ignorance, or out of malice.

It certainly had nothing to do with truth.


Petrit & Stella:

The issue here is not about missing K-albanians, some of which were no doubt murdered by your very own KLA.

It is about the probable kidnapping, murder & dismemberment of some 300 people by elements of the KLA.

A crime so appalling, that it elevates the alleged perpetrators into a whole new category - one in which the minds are so full of hate, that they probably derived satisfaction from making a profit in taking the lives of their victims.

> This organ trafficking rumor is so stupid and hilarious at the same time.
Stella, the only people laughing about this are people like you & certain other K-albanians

And this is why K-albanians are in a state of denial regarding even the possibility of such acts.


Niko:

Lots of questions, so why isn't the K-albanian leadership interested in looking for the answers?

Unless they have something to hide of course.

If the person making this claim was a serb or pro-serb, then K-albanians could safely ignore the accusations.

But your accuser in this case is none other than Carla del Ponte, former chief prosecutor for the Hague tribunal. A person who has well & truly demonstated that she is not in the pro-serb camp with her prosecutions against serbs at the Hague.


To all:

And here's something else to consider.

Human Rights Watch is an organisation which has shown itself to be heavily biased towards US actions in the balkans & Iraq. My arguments for this are laid out in post #4 at the link shown below.

http://xs4.b92.net/eng/news/comments.php?nav_id=49323

HRW only came out with their call for an investigation after news reports started appearing in the western press. Until then, they were silent on the issue.

And their call for an investigation was not made to the Hague, as one would expect, but to Albanian & K-albanian authorities - the very 'authorities' who have the most to lose by these allegations being proved.

My assumption is that they did so in an attempt to 'white-wash' the allegations being made against the KLA, by calling on Thaci, an ex-KLA leader himself, to do the investigations.

If pristina cannot even bring itself to go this far, then they must indeed have something to hide.

The ink isn't even dry on the new K-albanian constitution, & it's already been thrown out the window.

So much K-albanian respect of human-rights & the rule of law.

What are you hiding Thaci?

it is irrelevant if they want it or not, because Serbs will want to know exactly what happened and they will not stop-will go for it all the way.
Now we need a person like Simon Wizental to start working on it 24 hours a day..

They are essentially admitting guilt when not investigating such serious claims.

However, this opens the way for an international probe.
(ZK UK, 13 April 2008 16:41)
K-Albanians should launch an investigating probe based on what? Serious allegations or rumors from an unnamed source in a book? The author of the book didn't had enough evidence to even open an investigation, let alone accuse anyone.
When someone accuses someone else for a crime, the burden of finding evidence is on the accuser, not the accused one.
Who made the allegations of the organ harvesting? What's his/her name(s)?
Whom they suspect it was in charge for it? KLA as a whole or specific individuals? Or 2 milion K-Albanians were part of the conspiracy?
Who was involved on it?
When did it "happend"? What are the names of the victims?
Where the bodies were disposed? The serbian military machine on time of war had difficult time dissapearing the bodies of 20-30 K-Albanias in refregerated trucks in Serbia, yet somehow, you want us to beleive that poorly equipped KLA was able to dissapear 300 people without trace in the foreign country (Albania) in a time when that country was full of international organizations (NATO troops, NGO, Human Right Organizations, Aid workers, religious organizations etc)?
Who were the beneficiaries of this organ harvesting? To have all of the sudden at least 300 transplants in a short period of time, somewhere in Europe in a hospital it must be a record. We are talking about organ transplants here, not fractures or gun shot wounds. How many hospitals are there in Europe capable of performing such operations? With more than 300 organs coming out of the blue for a short period of time, some doctors and nurses should of worked overtime to keep up.
Can any supporter of the organ harvesting urban legend (the balkan version) can answer these questions?

The 300 missing Serbs whose organs were transplanted in Albania should be investigated.

As should the 1500 missing Albanians killed in Kosovo, transported in refrigerator trucks to Serbia, and then some were dumped in the Danube and others buried in mass graves.

Justice for all.
But of course, what will happen is justice for none.
Because none of these crimes will be open for investigation anytime soon.

its maybe 3000 kosovars are still missing,and serbia is not telling where thay have buryed them

What a novelty, guess why not.

"Since none of you can spell let me help you.

Hashim Thaçi

B92 take notes as well.
(KS, 13 April 2008 20:35)"

That's calling the kettle black isn't it?

KS, I haven't met a single albanian here who can spell Milloshevic or Millosevicq properly. It seems refusing a yugoslav state sponsored (and funded) education was not wise after all. One thing baffles me though, when you refused to receive an education in modern schools, instead choosing barns and fields, how is it that no-one taught you the universal language of English? I have yet to meet an Albanian here who does not make English mistakes.

As an occupied state, it behooves you to learn the language of the empire. Cheers!

KS, since you do not know how to write English properly, not to mention the many other pro-Albanian commentators here, let me assist you. Proper English is "take note" not "take notes". You may want to file that somewhere.

Since none of you can spell let me help you.

Hashim Thaçi

B92 take notes as well.

Before you guys from Serbia start with your critics about
Kosovo govenment that is not cooperating to investigate war crimes, you should be asking yourself a question "are we serbs cooperating with Hague?"
Mladic and Karadzic are still at large, how dare you to say such a thing about Kosova's government.
First, take a look at your house and then try to take a look at someones's else house.

"Somehow, however, we have managed to advance transplant science to the point where we can perform such complex operations in our barns."

Harvesting is not the same as transplanting - which would be carried out in the hospitals the organs were shipped to.

Harvesting requires cutting the organs out with sterile equipment and then packing them in a cooler for shipment. The organs are usually viable for 24 hours or more if packed correctly.

There were reports in the Serbian press in 1999 and 2000 of kidnapped Serb captives in concentration camps. The were visited and witnessed by the Sandzak Helsinki comity. This includes Muslims who emphatically stated the Kosovo Albanians were keeping Serbs alive in camps as late as the spring of 2000.

And for the poster above who mentioned a sudden rush of 300 organs - if he'd read the description he'd see that they were kept alive and imprisoned until their organs were needed. The harvesting took place over many months - perhaps well over a year. Further, there'd be more than 300 organs as each person has 2 kidneys, a liver, heart, corneas, etc.

There is always a heavy need for organ transplants which is why people are asked to do things like check the organ donation box of their driver's licenses.

There are thousands of people on waiting lists for organs in Europe everyday.

I agree with the previous writer. Not a single one of us writes English without errors.

Somehow, however, we have managed to advance transplant science to the point where we can perform such complex operations in our barns. This is certainly a direct result of our excellent education and training under Serbia, which took place in the barns, as someone pointed out.

Dear all,

There is no need the "accused" country to investigate a claim from someone who doesn't know anything about such so-called alledged attrocity...

If there was a single small(even in small atomic proportions), Mrs Del Ponte would have launched an investigation herself...or why not Serbia...(Serbia "knows" everything about the KLA)...

Mrs. Del Ponte did point this to sell more books on Serbian Market of 7/8 million as they may be more courios than the other one in the Balkans...about fantacies/illusions

To investigate this is the same as investigating rumors that few man flew like birds in the sky severly disturbing planes on landing and take-off...

Can anyone prove this...if yes...I would like to know....to start an investigation

peace to all

Cheers

Somehow, however, we have managed to advance transplant science to the point where we can perform such complex operations in our barns. This is certainly a direct result of our excellent education and training under Serbia, which took place in the barns, as someone pointed out.
(albi, 14 April 2008 02:19)

Albi,

Anyone with a basic knowledgecan of anatomy can perform a basic dissection of a person (take this from someone with experience). You do not need to be a doctor in order to sever the artery from a kidney or liver, pack it on ice, and ship it for sale.

Are you Implying that the criminal enterprise that is the KLA, could not find one average doctor to do its crimes? Hardly.

Secondly, skilled doctors are needed only when the objective is that a patient LIVES, unlike the poor Serbs who were BUTCHERED for their organs--any fool can do that, even an Albanian as you have pointed out.

critics of del ponte overlook the fact that she was prevented by politicians from bringing these charges to bear at the hague. That she now exposed the story in a book was an act of personal responsibilty sadly lacking by most public figures.

let me add that when i google this story, the only western press that comes up in one article in the wall street journal. otherwise, it has been completely embargoed in the USA. If the allegations had been against Serbs, it would have been widely covered. I say this as an american with no affiliation for serbia. rather, i have an affiliation with fairness and balance in reporting, another thing sadly lacking today. I guess that those of you who follw the balkans more closely than me are not surprised by this, but for me it was a small revelation.

the story of course is being widely aired in russia. This disconnect between the US and russian news only pushes our countries further apart needlessly.

Ask Thaci, he may know. The KLA were killing and kidnapping Albanians also.
(ZK UK, 13 April 2008 19:01)


What an inspiration to write a book how Thaqi mnaged to send the dead corps to Serbia.

This organ trafficking rumor is so stupid and hilarious at the same time. It creates such a drama in politics, but at the end still the families who are in search for their loved ones will suffer most.

as god is my witness, i still do not know what to make of this. if it is a lie made from whole cloth, or an "urban legend," then the lie mongering is almost more evil and insidious than the accusation itself.

under milosevic, libels and slanders against albanians (and many others) were commonplace, and as we all know, milosevic may be dead but much of his legacy lives on, sad to say.

carla del ponte is not my favorite person, actually she and her tactics disgust me; but why turn this into a new crusade if it is all based on a lie?... just for PR?

and yet natasa kandic, whom i personally know and trust implicitly, reports that through all the many meetings she held w/del ponte, this horrendous accusation never surfaced. how is such a thing possible??

something is deeply wrong in the state of denmark (as shakespeare wrote)and i will not rest until the truth comes out, but this is and will be one really ugly process, even for the balkans.

also -- as for the poster who is criticizing the "albanians' imperfect english" -- do me a favor, and as the britts say, all non-native english speakers should be commended for their attempts at using our problematic language to express deeply personal and politically ponderous issues. criticizing such attempts is pompous and frankly vulgar.

roberto from frisco

"Anyone with a basic knowledgecan of anatomy can perform a basic dissection of a person (take this from someone with experience)."

In reply to "tesla": I have a far more than basic understanding of anatomy and surgery and I think it's impossible to harvest and not harm an organ in primitive house settings, by somebody not trained to do that.

I know many Serb readers perversely wish these organ harvest rumors were true. I understand why these people would want to believe that anybody with basic understanding of anatomy can harvest an organ.

However, people who do transplants for a living would laugh in your face if you told them an "average doctor" was harvesting organs in a primitive home-type setting.

I think I know where these rumors come from. In the 80's the KGB probably started, but certainly helped fuel rumors of clandestine organ harvests done in the US on central American adopted children.

US government was forced to investigate, to satisfy the press, you know, and of course nothing panned out. See this link: http://usinfo.state.gov/media/Archive_Index/The_Baby_Parts_Myth.html Perhaps we should spend the money and launch an investigation too, but that's not my call.

Why did Carla Del Ponte press the other charges, when she could have just written a book about it. Her book is a fiction and should not be considered as a fact. She should have brought this up in the court if she has the facts.

The Questions that should be asked about Mrs. Del Ponte are these?

Why didn't she go after Thaci when he was not a Prime Minister, but she decided to publish her book now when Albanians have declared them independent from Belgrade with Thaci as PM?

Why was Haradinaj sent to Tribunal when he was innocent?

My honest opinion is that Mrs. Carla Del Ponte was bought out by the Serbian government and they are using her "Book" to put some breaks on Kosova's recognition from foreign countries. They are trying to portrait the Kosovo government as terrorists. Come on people, the West understands propaganda more than you do! As a saying goes you cannot sell cars to a car salesman and make a profit.

Why do I say that?
TIMING! Send Kosova's PM to Hague (Haradinaj) and put a stop to a lot of things (Declaration of Independence). Destabilize the Kosovo government and put a big black shade over Kosovo people so that when the time to recognize Kosova comes foreign countries might have second thoughts.
TIMING! Accuse Kosova's PM again for trafficking organs from Serb Prisoners. Since the first try didn't work because a lot of countries recognized Kosova. Now lets put a hold on more recognitions by again portraying Kosova's government as terrorists. Why didn't Carla Del Ponte accuse Thaci when he was not in government? Because the timing was not right!!!

Carla Del Ponte should be sued by Kosovo's government and she should be held responsible for all her accusations. She wants to get rich in dirty ways. But her problem is that we know the truth and nothing will stop the recognition of Kosova.

Peace to you all.

Niko:

Lots of questions, so why isn't the K-albanian leadership interested in looking for the answers?
(peter, sydney, 13 April 2008 21:58)
Peter,
Is not Kosovo government(or Serbian government) who should answer those questions but the individuals who made the accusations or Del Ponte for that matter.
I've heard similar serious rumours from K-Albanians refugees in 1999. Stories about serbian soldiers and paramilitaries cutting off the heads of albanian babies, throw it in the cooking pan,and forcing their parents to eat it. Allegedly it happend in Skenderaj (Srbica). Unnamed witnesses found a whole K-Albanian family masaccred and two beheaded babies! Would the Serbian Government launch an investigation for these allegations? Because if they don't (according to some serb poster here) they admit guilt!!!
This rumour was wildly circulating for real through K-Albanians refugee camps in 1999. I didn't made it up today. Did it really happend? I don't know! There are no named witnesses, no named victims, no named perpetrators, not enough evidence to investigate it. Sound similar to the organ harvesting story ? Or you would beleive it only if Del Ponte say it?
I would finish by quoting: "War is the continuation of politics by other means" - Carl von Clausewitz.
Greetings from California.

I agree with the Kosovo government's unwillingness to start a probe. However, I think the Kosovo government MUST state its willingness to cooperate with any international investigation effort on this matter.

The government should not launch its own probe for the simple reason that if such a probe turns up nothing, the Serb nationalists will claim a cover-up and continue on with their allegations indefinitely. Similarly, any Belgrade investigators should not be allowed to set foot in Kosovo without international/Albanian monitors to keep an eye on them at all times.

roberto:

Attempting to dismiss del Ponte's accusations out of hand by saying that 'it is all lies & slander' is juvenile. The only point you mention in support of your theory in your entire post (#22) is this:

> and yet natasa kandic, whom i personally know and trust implicitly, reports that through all the many meetings she held w/del ponte, this horrendous accusation never surfaced. how is such a thing possible??

All the rest of your post regarding this issue is 'spin'.

So what about Kandic?

She is a person like to Sonia Biserko, who fronts a NGO purportedly concerned with human-rights issues, but whose pronouncements favour the US & its objectives. See the link in my previous post (#16) above concerning the bias displayed by the NGO Human Rights Watch. Most of this also applies to Kandic's group, which I might add, gets funding from the US.

I personally have no respect for this womans principles nor for her veracity.

But back to you. Here you state that Kandic is a personal acquaintance of yours. In a previous post from a topic about a month ago, you said the same about Biserko. See (#2) this link:

http://xs4.b92.net/eng/news/comments.php?nav_id=48730

Curious that you know both women.

Seems that now HRW are at least nominally asking questions about organ-trafficking. Might be interesting to ask Kandic & Biserko to compare notes ..

.. that is if indeed you know them at all.

Incidentally, you never did get around to answering my questions regarding Biserko. Heres the link.

http://xs4.b92.net/eng/news/comments.php?nav_id=48730

It's post #4.


lili:
> ok ,let 's say you have got your organs,than you need someone to receive this organ,that has an histocompatibility with the donor ,otherwise you can not transplant

Is case of supply & demand. There are many people waiting for transplants & few donors. And when it is a case of life & death, especially yours, provenance takes a back seat.

> Do you want to say that when we arrested the serbs,we knew their serology for hepatitis,hiv,creuzfet jakob? their hla type their blood type?

Seems to me that those involved would not have had any trouble getting the blood for the bloodwork, & adding it to the shipments. 'Donors' certainly were not in a position to complain.

Try again.

is there a serbian doktor here to tell what you need for a successfull transplantation?
ok ,let 's say you have got your organs,than you need someone to receive this organ,that has an histocompatibility with the donor ,otherwise you can not transplant!Do you believe that we had know too who was seeking and organ? Do you want to say that when we arrested the serbs,we knew their serology for hepatitis,hiv,creuzfet jakob? their hla type their blood type?
extravision ,we had of course,to arrest only the good ones for transplantation!!!
and,kosova is not yet albania,so you are adressing the wrong place for investigation!

They are essentially admitting guilt when not investigating such serious claims.

However, this opens the way for an international probe.
(ZK UK, 13 April 2008 16:41)
K-Albanians should launch an investigating probe based on what? Serious allegations or rumors from an unnamed source in a book? The author of the book didn't had enough evidence to even open an investigation, let alone accuse anyone.
When someone accuses someone else for a crime, the burden of finding evidence is on the accuser, not the accused one.
Who made the allegations of the organ harvesting? What's his/her name(s)?
Whom they suspect it was in charge for it? KLA as a whole or specific individuals? Or 2 milion K-Albanians were part of the conspiracy?
Who was involved on it?
When did it "happend"? What are the names of the victims?
Where the bodies were disposed? The serbian military machine on time of war had difficult time dissapearing the bodies of 20-30 K-Albanias in refregerated trucks in Serbia, yet somehow, you want us to beleive that poorly equipped KLA was able to dissapear 300 people without trace in the foreign country (Albania) in a time when that country was full of international organizations (NATO troops, NGO, Human Right Organizations, Aid workers, religious organizations etc)?
Who were the beneficiaries of this organ harvesting? To have all of the sudden at least 300 transplants in a short period of time, somewhere in Europe in a hospital it must be a record. We are talking about organ transplants here, not fractures or gun shot wounds. How many hospitals are there in Europe capable of performing such operations? With more than 300 organs coming out of the blue for a short period of time, some doctors and nurses should of worked overtime to keep up.
Can any supporter of the organ harvesting urban legend (the balkan version) can answer these questions?

its maybe 3000 kosovars are still missing,and serbia is not telling where thay have buryed them

The 300 missing Serbs whose organs were transplanted in Albania should be investigated.

As should the 1500 missing Albanians killed in Kosovo, transported in refrigerator trucks to Serbia, and then some were dumped in the Danube and others buried in mass graves.

Justice for all.
But of course, what will happen is justice for none.
Because none of these crimes will be open for investigation anytime soon.

Ask Thaci, he may know. The KLA were killing and kidnapping Albanians also.
(ZK UK, 13 April 2008 19:01)


What an inspiration to write a book how Thaqi mnaged to send the dead corps to Serbia.

This organ trafficking rumor is so stupid and hilarious at the same time. It creates such a drama in politics, but at the end still the families who are in search for their loved ones will suffer most.

The Questions that should be asked about Mrs. Del Ponte are these?

Why didn't she go after Thaci when he was not a Prime Minister, but she decided to publish her book now when Albanians have declared them independent from Belgrade with Thaci as PM?

Why was Haradinaj sent to Tribunal when he was innocent?

My honest opinion is that Mrs. Carla Del Ponte was bought out by the Serbian government and they are using her "Book" to put some breaks on Kosova's recognition from foreign countries. They are trying to portrait the Kosovo government as terrorists. Come on people, the West understands propaganda more than you do! As a saying goes you cannot sell cars to a car salesman and make a profit.

Why do I say that?
TIMING! Send Kosova's PM to Hague (Haradinaj) and put a stop to a lot of things (Declaration of Independence). Destabilize the Kosovo government and put a big black shade over Kosovo people so that when the time to recognize Kosova comes foreign countries might have second thoughts.
TIMING! Accuse Kosova's PM again for trafficking organs from Serb Prisoners. Since the first try didn't work because a lot of countries recognized Kosova. Now lets put a hold on more recognitions by again portraying Kosova's government as terrorists. Why didn't Carla Del Ponte accuse Thaci when he was not in government? Because the timing was not right!!!

Carla Del Ponte should be sued by Kosovo's government and she should be held responsible for all her accusations. She wants to get rich in dirty ways. But her problem is that we know the truth and nothing will stop the recognition of Kosova.

Peace to you all.

its maybe 3000 kosovars are still missing,and serbia is not telling where thay have buryed them
(Agon, 13 April 2008 17:37)
--
Ask Thaci, he may know. The KLA were killing and kidnapping Albanians also.

"Since none of you can spell let me help you.

Hashim Thaçi

B92 take notes as well.
(KS, 13 April 2008 20:35)"

That's calling the kettle black isn't it?

KS, I haven't met a single albanian here who can spell Milloshevic or Millosevicq properly. It seems refusing a yugoslav state sponsored (and funded) education was not wise after all. One thing baffles me though, when you refused to receive an education in modern schools, instead choosing barns and fields, how is it that no-one taught you the universal language of English? I have yet to meet an Albanian here who does not make English mistakes.

As an occupied state, it behooves you to learn the language of the empire. Cheers!

Since none of you can spell let me help you.

Hashim Thaçi

B92 take notes as well.

Before you guys from Serbia start with your critics about
Kosovo govenment that is not cooperating to investigate war crimes, you should be asking yourself a question "are we serbs cooperating with Hague?"
Mladic and Karadzic are still at large, how dare you to say such a thing about Kosova's government.
First, take a look at your house and then try to take a look at someones's else house.

Why did Carla Del Ponte press the other charges, when she could have just written a book about it. Her book is a fiction and should not be considered as a fact. She should have brought this up in the court if she has the facts.

I agree with the previous writer. Not a single one of us writes English without errors.

Somehow, however, we have managed to advance transplant science to the point where we can perform such complex operations in our barns. This is certainly a direct result of our excellent education and training under Serbia, which took place in the barns, as someone pointed out.

Dear all,

There is no need the "accused" country to investigate a claim from someone who doesn't know anything about such so-called alledged attrocity...

If there was a single small(even in small atomic proportions), Mrs Del Ponte would have launched an investigation herself...or why not Serbia...(Serbia "knows" everything about the KLA)...

Mrs. Del Ponte did point this to sell more books on Serbian Market of 7/8 million as they may be more courios than the other one in the Balkans...about fantacies/illusions

To investigate this is the same as investigating rumors that few man flew like birds in the sky severly disturbing planes on landing and take-off...

Can anyone prove this...if yes...I would like to know....to start an investigation

peace to all

Cheers

KS, since you do not know how to write English properly, not to mention the many other pro-Albanian commentators here, let me assist you. Proper English is "take note" not "take notes". You may want to file that somewhere.

as god is my witness, i still do not know what to make of this. if it is a lie made from whole cloth, or an "urban legend," then the lie mongering is almost more evil and insidious than the accusation itself.

under milosevic, libels and slanders against albanians (and many others) were commonplace, and as we all know, milosevic may be dead but much of his legacy lives on, sad to say.

carla del ponte is not my favorite person, actually she and her tactics disgust me; but why turn this into a new crusade if it is all based on a lie?... just for PR?

and yet natasa kandic, whom i personally know and trust implicitly, reports that through all the many meetings she held w/del ponte, this horrendous accusation never surfaced. how is such a thing possible??

something is deeply wrong in the state of denmark (as shakespeare wrote)and i will not rest until the truth comes out, but this is and will be one really ugly process, even for the balkans.

also -- as for the poster who is criticizing the "albanians' imperfect english" -- do me a favor, and as the britts say, all non-native english speakers should be commended for their attempts at using our problematic language to express deeply personal and politically ponderous issues. criticizing such attempts is pompous and frankly vulgar.

roberto from frisco

Niko:

Lots of questions, so why isn't the K-albanian leadership interested in looking for the answers?
(peter, sydney, 13 April 2008 21:58)
Peter,
Is not Kosovo government(or Serbian government) who should answer those questions but the individuals who made the accusations or Del Ponte for that matter.
I've heard similar serious rumours from K-Albanians refugees in 1999. Stories about serbian soldiers and paramilitaries cutting off the heads of albanian babies, throw it in the cooking pan,and forcing their parents to eat it. Allegedly it happend in Skenderaj (Srbica). Unnamed witnesses found a whole K-Albanian family masaccred and two beheaded babies! Would the Serbian Government launch an investigation for these allegations? Because if they don't (according to some serb poster here) they admit guilt!!!
This rumour was wildly circulating for real through K-Albanians refugee camps in 1999. I didn't made it up today. Did it really happend? I don't know! There are no named witnesses, no named victims, no named perpetrators, not enough evidence to investigate it. Sound similar to the organ harvesting story ? Or you would beleive it only if Del Ponte say it?
I would finish by quoting: "War is the continuation of politics by other means" - Carl von Clausewitz.
Greetings from California.

If hey they do, we would all know where 9 million for Hardinajs defense case came from.

They are essentially admitting guilt when not investigating such serious claims.

However, this opens the way for an international probe.

What a novelty, guess why not.

They protest a little too loudly.

If they had nothing to hide, they would not be so adamantly against an investigation.

it is irrelevant if they want it or not, because Serbs will want to know exactly what happened and they will not stop-will go for it all the way.
Now we need a person like Simon Wizental to start working on it 24 hours a day..

What a great way for an "independent democratic country" to behave. Any other "real" democratic country would take these accusations very seriously and launch complete investigation immediately. That is, unless they already know the truth (Hashim Thaci). You know what they say, the best offense is defense and that is why they are attacking Ms. Del Ponte. Their lawsuits may just turn around to bite them and really bring out the truth.

"Anyone with a basic knowledgecan of anatomy can perform a basic dissection of a person (take this from someone with experience)."

In reply to "tesla": I have a far more than basic understanding of anatomy and surgery and I think it's impossible to harvest and not harm an organ in primitive house settings, by somebody not trained to do that.

I know many Serb readers perversely wish these organ harvest rumors were true. I understand why these people would want to believe that anybody with basic understanding of anatomy can harvest an organ.

However, people who do transplants for a living would laugh in your face if you told them an "average doctor" was harvesting organs in a primitive home-type setting.

I think I know where these rumors come from. In the 80's the KGB probably started, but certainly helped fuel rumors of clandestine organ harvests done in the US on central American adopted children.

US government was forced to investigate, to satisfy the press, you know, and of course nothing panned out. See this link: http://usinfo.state.gov/media/Archive_Index/The_Baby_Parts_Myth.html Perhaps we should spend the money and launch an investigation too, but that's not my call.

I agree with the Kosovo government's unwillingness to start a probe. However, I think the Kosovo government MUST state its willingness to cooperate with any international investigation effort on this matter.

The government should not launch its own probe for the simple reason that if such a probe turns up nothing, the Serb nationalists will claim a cover-up and continue on with their allegations indefinitely. Similarly, any Belgrade investigators should not be allowed to set foot in Kosovo without international/Albanian monitors to keep an eye on them at all times.

Somehow, however, we have managed to advance transplant science to the point where we can perform such complex operations in our barns. This is certainly a direct result of our excellent education and training under Serbia, which took place in the barns, as someone pointed out.
(albi, 14 April 2008 02:19)

Albi,

Anyone with a basic knowledgecan of anatomy can perform a basic dissection of a person (take this from someone with experience). You do not need to be a doctor in order to sever the artery from a kidney or liver, pack it on ice, and ship it for sale.

Are you Implying that the criminal enterprise that is the KLA, could not find one average doctor to do its crimes? Hardly.

Secondly, skilled doctors are needed only when the objective is that a patient LIVES, unlike the poor Serbs who were BUTCHERED for their organs--any fool can do that, even an Albanian as you have pointed out.

is there a serbian doktor here to tell what you need for a successfull transplantation?
ok ,let 's say you have got your organs,than you need someone to receive this organ,that has an histocompatibility with the donor ,otherwise you can not transplant!Do you believe that we had know too who was seeking and organ? Do you want to say that when we arrested the serbs,we knew their serology for hepatitis,hiv,creuzfet jakob? their hla type their blood type?
extravision ,we had of course,to arrest only the good ones for transplantation!!!
and,kosova is not yet albania,so you are adressing the wrong place for investigation!

If I was guilty I wouldn't launch an investigation against myself either. But if I was without guilt then I would happily launch an investigation to clear my name. Thacis action speaks for itself.

Why not investigate? What do they have to hide?

> The Kosovo Albanian government will not investigate Carla Del Ponte's claims that Kosovo Serbs were kidnapped to have their organs removed.

> As for the leading Kosovo Albanian human rights NGO, Council for Human Rights and Freedoms, they dismissed the Del Ponte claims as "pure lies".

> The daily adds that the Human Rights Watch request to Thaci to start an investigation into the allegations, made public this week, "will also not be considered".


Agon:
> its maybe 3000 kosovars are still missing,and serbia is not telling where thay have buryed them

The most recent edition of the ICRC's 'book of the missing' for Kosovo lists some 2047 people still missing of which a substantial percentage are serb - including the 300 referred to in the article.

So your statement was made either out of ignorance, or out of malice.

It certainly had nothing to do with truth.


Petrit & Stella:

The issue here is not about missing K-albanians, some of which were no doubt murdered by your very own KLA.

It is about the probable kidnapping, murder & dismemberment of some 300 people by elements of the KLA.

A crime so appalling, that it elevates the alleged perpetrators into a whole new category - one in which the minds are so full of hate, that they probably derived satisfaction from making a profit in taking the lives of their victims.

> This organ trafficking rumor is so stupid and hilarious at the same time.
Stella, the only people laughing about this are people like you & certain other K-albanians

And this is why K-albanians are in a state of denial regarding even the possibility of such acts.


Niko:

Lots of questions, so why isn't the K-albanian leadership interested in looking for the answers?

Unless they have something to hide of course.

If the person making this claim was a serb or pro-serb, then K-albanians could safely ignore the accusations.

But your accuser in this case is none other than Carla del Ponte, former chief prosecutor for the Hague tribunal. A person who has well & truly demonstated that she is not in the pro-serb camp with her prosecutions against serbs at the Hague.


To all:

And here's something else to consider.

Human Rights Watch is an organisation which has shown itself to be heavily biased towards US actions in the balkans & Iraq. My arguments for this are laid out in post #4 at the link shown below.

http://xs4.b92.net/eng/news/comments.php?nav_id=49323

HRW only came out with their call for an investigation after news reports started appearing in the western press. Until then, they were silent on the issue.

And their call for an investigation was not made to the Hague, as one would expect, but to Albanian & K-albanian authorities - the very 'authorities' who have the most to lose by these allegations being proved.

My assumption is that they did so in an attempt to 'white-wash' the allegations being made against the KLA, by calling on Thaci, an ex-KLA leader himself, to do the investigations.

If pristina cannot even bring itself to go this far, then they must indeed have something to hide.

The ink isn't even dry on the new K-albanian constitution, & it's already been thrown out the window.

So much K-albanian respect of human-rights & the rule of law.

What are you hiding Thaci?

"Somehow, however, we have managed to advance transplant science to the point where we can perform such complex operations in our barns."

Harvesting is not the same as transplanting - which would be carried out in the hospitals the organs were shipped to.

Harvesting requires cutting the organs out with sterile equipment and then packing them in a cooler for shipment. The organs are usually viable for 24 hours or more if packed correctly.

There were reports in the Serbian press in 1999 and 2000 of kidnapped Serb captives in concentration camps. The were visited and witnessed by the Sandzak Helsinki comity. This includes Muslims who emphatically stated the Kosovo Albanians were keeping Serbs alive in camps as late as the spring of 2000.

And for the poster above who mentioned a sudden rush of 300 organs - if he'd read the description he'd see that they were kept alive and imprisoned until their organs were needed. The harvesting took place over many months - perhaps well over a year. Further, there'd be more than 300 organs as each person has 2 kidneys, a liver, heart, corneas, etc.

There is always a heavy need for organ transplants which is why people are asked to do things like check the organ donation box of their driver's licenses.

There are thousands of people on waiting lists for organs in Europe everyday.

critics of del ponte overlook the fact that she was prevented by politicians from bringing these charges to bear at the hague. That she now exposed the story in a book was an act of personal responsibilty sadly lacking by most public figures.

let me add that when i google this story, the only western press that comes up in one article in the wall street journal. otherwise, it has been completely embargoed in the USA. If the allegations had been against Serbs, it would have been widely covered. I say this as an american with no affiliation for serbia. rather, i have an affiliation with fairness and balance in reporting, another thing sadly lacking today. I guess that those of you who follw the balkans more closely than me are not surprised by this, but for me it was a small revelation.

the story of course is being widely aired in russia. This disconnect between the US and russian news only pushes our countries further apart needlessly.

roberto:

Attempting to dismiss del Ponte's accusations out of hand by saying that 'it is all lies & slander' is juvenile. The only point you mention in support of your theory in your entire post (#22) is this:

> and yet natasa kandic, whom i personally know and trust implicitly, reports that through all the many meetings she held w/del ponte, this horrendous accusation never surfaced. how is such a thing possible??

All the rest of your post regarding this issue is 'spin'.

So what about Kandic?

She is a person like to Sonia Biserko, who fronts a NGO purportedly concerned with human-rights issues, but whose pronouncements favour the US & its objectives. See the link in my previous post (#16) above concerning the bias displayed by the NGO Human Rights Watch. Most of this also applies to Kandic's group, which I might add, gets funding from the US.

I personally have no respect for this womans principles nor for her veracity.

But back to you. Here you state that Kandic is a personal acquaintance of yours. In a previous post from a topic about a month ago, you said the same about Biserko. See (#2) this link:

http://xs4.b92.net/eng/news/comments.php?nav_id=48730

Curious that you know both women.

Seems that now HRW are at least nominally asking questions about organ-trafficking. Might be interesting to ask Kandic & Biserko to compare notes ..

.. that is if indeed you know them at all.

Incidentally, you never did get around to answering my questions regarding Biserko. Heres the link.

http://xs4.b92.net/eng/news/comments.php?nav_id=48730

It's post #4.


lili:
> ok ,let 's say you have got your organs,than you need someone to receive this organ,that has an histocompatibility with the donor ,otherwise you can not transplant

Is case of supply & demand. There are many people waiting for transplants & few donors. And when it is a case of life & death, especially yours, provenance takes a back seat.

> Do you want to say that when we arrested the serbs,we knew their serology for hepatitis,hiv,creuzfet jakob? their hla type their blood type?

Seems to me that those involved would not have had any trouble getting the blood for the bloodwork, & adding it to the shipments. 'Donors' certainly were not in a position to complain.

Try again.