NATO: Stagnation leading to instability

NATO promises crack down of violence???? How can I trust NATO or KFOR for that matter after event in Manrch 2004. How KFOR can be trusted when they are incapable of protecting small Serbian community from the assualts that happen on the dailily basis. Kfor cannot be trusted and I have a feeling that they will help Albanians to slaughter the remaining Serbs in province just as NATO did in Coratia (read Krajina). After statement given by French general there is no trust.

The reassurances by national governments that their troops can act will hopefully prevent a repeat of the despicable attacks of 2004. After all how can you have a protectorate where the troops aren't authorised to protect?!

The main issue now is that Nato troops are in Kosovo under Resolution 1244. This states quite clearly that Kosovo is part of Serbia.

There are no variations on the theme or reinterpretations - it is a simple fact that 1244 reasserts Serbian sovereignty as the successor state of Yugoslavia, and that the troops are there under this mandate.

There can be no reassertion of this Resolution AND a support of a declaration of unilateral independence.

Such a move would throw the UN, Nato, Europe and the whole structure of international law into disarray. It would be dangerous, illegal and lead to damaging disunity.

The US is directly responsible for the current situation. They have done everything possible to sabotage the talks to find a compromise.

Now everyone needs that compromise - I hope that Ms Rice starts talking with the Russians and Europeans so that a solution can be found.

So what this article says is that NATO can do whatever it wants. If the invaders of Serbian KosovO start to get violent - we're just supposed to sit there & allow it to happen??

Don't think so!

“Whatever the solution for status, Kosovo has to continue to be a place where Kosovo Albanians, Serbs and other communities can live together without fear,” Scheffer said"

Sounds nice, but you got one word wrong in this speech. "continue" is surely out of place. there is NO place in KiM where the minority communities do not live in constant fear right now!

Is an 'open' society one in which prosecutors for justice are afraid to represent ethnic minorities, where they have to be convoyed by armed escort (NOT the Kosovo police, because they are not trusted to uphold the law and protect these people). Where Special prosecutors (and their families) have been threatened, to such an extent that instead of there being TEN Specials, there are now only FOUR. Two more resigned in November.

Criminals run the country - people (of ALL ethnicitry) are certainly afraid of them! Why, because the police will do nothing, they are up to their necks in it as well.

A country in which terrorists have become ministers of state? Where nepotism, politics, and filial relationships are the determining factors in jobs.

Even Albanians are beginning to accept that their politicians are unacceptable! Only 38% voted in the elections.

If the IC had actually bothered to ensure there was justice and equitability, then maybe there would be a future, but now? I don't think so.

KiM was a basket case, is a basket case, and unless there is wholesale cleaning out, will remain a basket case. And who will meet that bill for the next 40 years? NOT MY TAXES, THANK YOU!

Yes-we heard all of that before, and about your orders to sit and not interfere when albanians were attacking innocent kids and killing them just becouse they are Serbian kids.Well now you need Serbia in NATO and you need Serbian doctors in Afghanistan and you seriosly should think about protecting Serbs if you want them to join your not so fine organization.

Does this mean KFOR/NATO will fight some NATO states seeing as those NATO states who illegally recognise an illegal declaration are acting in a violent manner and immediatly become non-KFOR occupying forces - could become very confusing indeed!

Kate,

spot on! There is no legality for what would be an immediate breach of 1244 if any one NATO state with troops in Serbia's province who illegally recognised any form of illegal declaration be it unilateral or coordinated - they immediatly remove their legitamacy and will be seen in international law as occupiers and Serbia will every right to counter this force against it. lets recall UN SC resolution 1244 states "re-affrim" not affirm but to re-affirm i.e. sovereignity exists post the resolution as it did prior the resolution and how did NATO troops come to be in Serbia legitamely? Thats right with the obligation that the US, UK and France all made to uphold 1244!

Hence why Simic is right and Jeremic is stating the obvious in more eloquent words. Equally why we hear;

“The issue will require further debate,“ the Belgian foreign minister told journalists.

- is that the Wallonian or Flanders foreign Minister?

One, referring to themself as "Acko", claims to be a Serb but attacks a (strong and quite astute. . .you rock, Kate!) supporter and refers to some imaginery 'Kosova' place?? We Serbs call our province Kosovo.

Another, a supposed Dane, insists that 'Albanians have demonstrated their readiness for cohabitation with minorities.' How? By the frequent murder, beatings, forceable confinement to ghettos and intimidation of said minorities?

Please leave your propaganda with the ignorant Western-domiciled news forums . . .not with a Serbian one.

To a posters who are pretending to fight for Serbian cause (for sure not for well being of K-Serbs):

There is no need for NATO to protect Kosovars from each other. Albanians have shown their readiness for cohabitation with all minority groups, including Serbs. All minority groups have shown readiness to cohabitate with Albanians and the others. The only thing which needs to be done is to let K-Serbs to organize their life in Kosovo without destructive instructions coming from Serbia. For this they have full support of Kosovars, Kosovo and international institutions. This is so natural and simple...

Kate,

we (Serbs)are tired from the non-sense similar to yours in your posting. I dont know what resolution you are talking about, if we did not have russia backin us the resolution would have been forgoten by now. Please spare us form more politics, give us work, money, normal life, thas what we want.
Kate, we need to move forward together with the EU not backwards. We dont want isolation any more, you know what we went through.
KFOR has done a little to protect Serbs in Kosova but Serbia has done nothing.

Doni ...
you just became my idol.."the new state of Dardania, which will soon be a part of USA". I really feel sorry for you if you and your Albanians believe in this...Thanks for a good laugh.

Acko,
Maybe you would like to be Serb ...and it is possible, but first you have to learn that Kosovo is written with O at the end, not A!!!

acko...or whatever you wanna call yourself...

first, you certainly are not speaking here for the Serbs...as an Albanian.

second: there is no kosova!

third: if the intention is to mislead others, it must be done with a little bit more intelligent moves...

Acko,
You say to Kate that "we (Serbs)are tired from the non-sense similar to yours"
Interesting, because you conclude your comment by stating...
"KFOR has done a little to protect Serbs in Kosova..."

What are the chances that a Serb would spell Kosovo with the letter "a" as you did?
I am not so sure that you are a Serb.

I direct your attention to this comment --

"we (Serbs)are tired from the non-sense similar to yours .... KFOR has done a little to protect Serbs in Kosova but Serbia has done nothing.Acko, 7 December 2007 16:01)"

So... your a "Serb" who considers Kosovo as Kosova? hahaha well well well I guess that propaganda here is more than welcomed. Really trying to play your self off as a Serb you should really do some research less you get caught in the act...

Kate I think you have a little group of followers forming around you. These special "Serbs" seem to take exceptional interest in your posts.


If KFOR stays in Kosovo after albanains brake re-1244 then their presence is no longer valid and must leave or come to a agreement with Serbia again.

Your words do not mean anything. What you say can have meaning if NATO force return of 250,000 Serbs back to their land within KiM Serbian province with guaranty for full security. Another thing is return of all illegal cross borders from Albania back. Don’t you think that Serbia does not have records for each individual within province that are true K-Albanians. Current conflicts opened borders wide for illegal immigration. “Clean Cut”, I suggest you that you better use your time to provide papers from Serbia that will prove that you originated from Serbia (as a Serbian Citizen).

by the way
albanians will never get violent, because we got what we wanted, there is not even one single reason. we are happy.

but serbia will be the trouble maker here, and then i ask myself, what albanians should do if serbia starts making trouble?
I beleive NATO will be the adequate response to any serb threats or teror activity in the new state of Dardania, which will soon be a part of USA

If it was the other way around if the Serbs where Albanians they wood be screaming bloody murder. The Serbs wood be liberating them selves taking up arms not waiting for any one to grant them freedom and right to govern them selves. Like the Serbians have shown them selfs through out its turbulent history. Even in areas where the Serbs are minorities in Slovenia 2% ,Croatia 12% ,Bosnia 31% in 91 they have taken arms against there neighbors first. The Albanians are 90% in Kosovo have been more than enough patient and long suffering under the Serbs ,of every kind of oppression. I hope they learn to live together and that is a tall order.

Somthing is wrong here Russia and Serbia want international law to be respected but how you can do that when both countries do not respect their own citizens(own people).We see every day what goes on in Russia,and I wounder why some posters here do not go and work or live in Russia but come to West or US?
I am sure that Kosovars would do well just like Croatia,Slovenia and B&H which they were the once who did not respect the international law.
Kosovars go ahead with your new state and freedom.
God bless Kosovo

Acko the Albanian. Please stop insulting our intelligence by trying to pass yourself off as a Serb. No Serb would EVER refer to KosovO as Kosova.

Now you are getting sloppy.

Any country that accepts Kosovo as independent will become an occupyong force and therefore be removed legally by Serbia.

If there is violence after the independence of Kosovo, I am sure that the Albanians would be to busy celebrating their victory, this NEW DAY of total freedom, to commit acts of violence.

Kosova will be de jure Independent very soon and all its people will live together respecting each other based on values they share in a multiethnic country. Albanian majority in Kosova has already shown its readiness to include Serbian minority in power share and governing of the new state. Most Serbian representatives are ready to take their responsibilites, but are still kept hostage of plans and directives that come from Belgrade. Very soon they will understand that Belgrade offers nothing real but only fake promisses and baseless lies, and they will join forces in running their new country, Kosova. By the way, they can call it Kosovo if they want to. They are free to say what they want. Kosova/o will be a free land will free people, an enviroment different from that of repressive Belgrade, which all of us, Albanians and Serbs, have lived under for the last decades.

Acko,
Maybe you would like to be Serb ...and it is possible, but first you have to learn that Kosovo is written with O at the end, not A!!!
(eho, 7 December 2007 17:53)

Acko most likely lives in Kosova whereases all of you Serbs live in [blank]. I will give you a hint, you all live in Russia, that's where you get this artificial confidence.

Also, I'm a Kosovar-Bosnian and everyone I know calls Kosova KOSOVA. I'm confused, if Kosova is a autonomous region of Serbia..than why do you need visas?





Please leave your propaganda with the ignorant Western-domiciled news forums . . .not with a Serbian one.
(My too sense. . ., 7 December 2007 20:46)


I somehow did not see the huge banner saying "B92 is an integral part of Serbia" or "B92 for Serbs only".

Pity about all the attacks on Acko, I guess some Serbs simply can't imagine that some other Serbs might think all the bluster about continuing to rule Kosova is a waste of time and energy for Serbia and does nothing to help (the contrary in fact) the K Serbs. Get real guys; there are Israelis who support self-determination for Palestine, there are Americans who oppose the occupation of Iraq and there are Serbs who oppose the reoccupation of Kosova. It is actually a mark of a relatively civilised society.

Second, we read "How can I trust NATO or KFOR for that matter after event in March 2004. How KFOR can be trusted when they are incapable of protecting small Serbian community from the assaults that happen on the daily basis."

Well I'm no fan of the idea that foreign armies or protectorates are the way to go anywhere, let alone that they should be "trusted," but in the circumstances you can offer no alternative. Why spice it up by talking about "daily" attacks when you know the frequency is nothing remotely like that. Yes a lack of security continues, and needs to be addressed, but no there are not anything like "daily" attacks and in many areas there is relative normality (and in others still appalling situations, eg Orachovac). It is a process of re-building bridges which can not be rebuilt as long as Serbia, and some minority leaders, continue to insist that the majority be stuffed back under Serb rule.

As for march 2004, yes NATO performed poorly re protecting property, but in reality put protecting lives ahead of protecting property: of 19 killed, 8 tragically were Serbs, while the other 11 were Albanians shot dead by NATO troops while trying to attack Serbs. Thus Acko is right that Kfor has done "something" (not enough) to protect K Serbs while Serbia has done nothing (but make it worse for them).

Finally, the Serb posters saying that Kfor troops should leave if the country they comes from recognises unilateral declaration of independence. I'm afraid this merely shows your callousness towards the Serb minority. The Albanians do not need NATO there, much as they may love NATO; NATO troops are there primarily to protect the K Serbs from the unfortunate extremist streak that continues exist among pockets of Albanians. And tensions will most likely be hightened by a unilateral declaration by Pristina, and a similar unilateral declaration by north Mitrovica. Do you really want no, or reduced, Kfor troops to protect the smaller Serb enclaves in such a situation? Or do you imagine the Serbian army swarming through 2 million Albanians to reach Gracanica?

Kate,

we (Serbs)are tired from the non-sense similar to yours in your posting. I dont know what resolution you are talking about, if we did not have russia backin us the resolution would have been forgoten by now. Please spare us form more politics, give us work, money, normal life, thas what we want.
Kate, we need to move forward together with the EU not backwards. We dont want isolation any more, you know what we went through.
KFOR has done a little to protect Serbs in Kosova but Serbia has done nothing.

by the way
albanians will never get violent, because we got what we wanted, there is not even one single reason. we are happy.

but serbia will be the trouble maker here, and then i ask myself, what albanians should do if serbia starts making trouble?
I beleive NATO will be the adequate response to any serb threats or teror activity in the new state of Dardania, which will soon be a part of USA

To a posters who are pretending to fight for Serbian cause (for sure not for well being of K-Serbs):

There is no need for NATO to protect Kosovars from each other. Albanians have shown their readiness for cohabitation with all minority groups, including Serbs. All minority groups have shown readiness to cohabitate with Albanians and the others. The only thing which needs to be done is to let K-Serbs to organize their life in Kosovo without destructive instructions coming from Serbia. For this they have full support of Kosovars, Kosovo and international institutions. This is so natural and simple...

So what this article says is that NATO can do whatever it wants. If the invaders of Serbian KosovO start to get violent - we're just supposed to sit there & allow it to happen??

Don't think so!

If there is violence after the independence of Kosovo, I am sure that the Albanians would be to busy celebrating their victory, this NEW DAY of total freedom, to commit acts of violence.

Kosova will be de jure Independent very soon and all its people will live together respecting each other based on values they share in a multiethnic country. Albanian majority in Kosova has already shown its readiness to include Serbian minority in power share and governing of the new state. Most Serbian representatives are ready to take their responsibilites, but are still kept hostage of plans and directives that come from Belgrade. Very soon they will understand that Belgrade offers nothing real but only fake promisses and baseless lies, and they will join forces in running their new country, Kosova. By the way, they can call it Kosovo if they want to. They are free to say what they want. Kosova/o will be a free land will free people, an enviroment different from that of repressive Belgrade, which all of us, Albanians and Serbs, have lived under for the last decades.

Somthing is wrong here Russia and Serbia want international law to be respected but how you can do that when both countries do not respect their own citizens(own people).We see every day what goes on in Russia,and I wounder why some posters here do not go and work or live in Russia but come to West or US?
I am sure that Kosovars would do well just like Croatia,Slovenia and B&H which they were the once who did not respect the international law.
Kosovars go ahead with your new state and freedom.
God bless Kosovo

The reassurances by national governments that their troops can act will hopefully prevent a repeat of the despicable attacks of 2004. After all how can you have a protectorate where the troops aren't authorised to protect?!

The main issue now is that Nato troops are in Kosovo under Resolution 1244. This states quite clearly that Kosovo is part of Serbia.

There are no variations on the theme or reinterpretations - it is a simple fact that 1244 reasserts Serbian sovereignty as the successor state of Yugoslavia, and that the troops are there under this mandate.

There can be no reassertion of this Resolution AND a support of a declaration of unilateral independence.

Such a move would throw the UN, Nato, Europe and the whole structure of international law into disarray. It would be dangerous, illegal and lead to damaging disunity.

The US is directly responsible for the current situation. They have done everything possible to sabotage the talks to find a compromise.

Now everyone needs that compromise - I hope that Ms Rice starts talking with the Russians and Europeans so that a solution can be found.

“Whatever the solution for status, Kosovo has to continue to be a place where Kosovo Albanians, Serbs and other communities can live together without fear,” Scheffer said"

Sounds nice, but you got one word wrong in this speech. "continue" is surely out of place. there is NO place in KiM where the minority communities do not live in constant fear right now!

Is an 'open' society one in which prosecutors for justice are afraid to represent ethnic minorities, where they have to be convoyed by armed escort (NOT the Kosovo police, because they are not trusted to uphold the law and protect these people). Where Special prosecutors (and their families) have been threatened, to such an extent that instead of there being TEN Specials, there are now only FOUR. Two more resigned in November.

Criminals run the country - people (of ALL ethnicitry) are certainly afraid of them! Why, because the police will do nothing, they are up to their necks in it as well.

A country in which terrorists have become ministers of state? Where nepotism, politics, and filial relationships are the determining factors in jobs.

Even Albanians are beginning to accept that their politicians are unacceptable! Only 38% voted in the elections.

If the IC had actually bothered to ensure there was justice and equitability, then maybe there would be a future, but now? I don't think so.

KiM was a basket case, is a basket case, and unless there is wholesale cleaning out, will remain a basket case. And who will meet that bill for the next 40 years? NOT MY TAXES, THANK YOU!

NATO promises crack down of violence???? How can I trust NATO or KFOR for that matter after event in Manrch 2004. How KFOR can be trusted when they are incapable of protecting small Serbian community from the assualts that happen on the dailily basis. Kfor cannot be trusted and I have a feeling that they will help Albanians to slaughter the remaining Serbs in province just as NATO did in Coratia (read Krajina). After statement given by French general there is no trust.

Kate,

spot on! There is no legality for what would be an immediate breach of 1244 if any one NATO state with troops in Serbia's province who illegally recognised any form of illegal declaration be it unilateral or coordinated - they immediatly remove their legitamacy and will be seen in international law as occupiers and Serbia will every right to counter this force against it. lets recall UN SC resolution 1244 states "re-affrim" not affirm but to re-affirm i.e. sovereignity exists post the resolution as it did prior the resolution and how did NATO troops come to be in Serbia legitamely? Thats right with the obligation that the US, UK and France all made to uphold 1244!

Hence why Simic is right and Jeremic is stating the obvious in more eloquent words. Equally why we hear;

“The issue will require further debate,“ the Belgian foreign minister told journalists.

- is that the Wallonian or Flanders foreign Minister?

Yes-we heard all of that before, and about your orders to sit and not interfere when albanians were attacking innocent kids and killing them just becouse they are Serbian kids.Well now you need Serbia in NATO and you need Serbian doctors in Afghanistan and you seriosly should think about protecting Serbs if you want them to join your not so fine organization.

Does this mean KFOR/NATO will fight some NATO states seeing as those NATO states who illegally recognise an illegal declaration are acting in a violent manner and immediatly become non-KFOR occupying forces - could become very confusing indeed!

acko...or whatever you wanna call yourself...

first, you certainly are not speaking here for the Serbs...as an Albanian.

second: there is no kosova!

third: if the intention is to mislead others, it must be done with a little bit more intelligent moves...

If it was the other way around if the Serbs where Albanians they wood be screaming bloody murder. The Serbs wood be liberating them selves taking up arms not waiting for any one to grant them freedom and right to govern them selves. Like the Serbians have shown them selfs through out its turbulent history. Even in areas where the Serbs are minorities in Slovenia 2% ,Croatia 12% ,Bosnia 31% in 91 they have taken arms against there neighbors first. The Albanians are 90% in Kosovo have been more than enough patient and long suffering under the Serbs ,of every kind of oppression. I hope they learn to live together and that is a tall order.

Acko,
Maybe you would like to be Serb ...and it is possible, but first you have to learn that Kosovo is written with O at the end, not A!!!
(eho, 7 December 2007 17:53)

Acko most likely lives in Kosova whereases all of you Serbs live in [blank]. I will give you a hint, you all live in Russia, that's where you get this artificial confidence.

Also, I'm a Kosovar-Bosnian and everyone I know calls Kosova KOSOVA. I'm confused, if Kosova is a autonomous region of Serbia..than why do you need visas?





Please leave your propaganda with the ignorant Western-domiciled news forums . . .not with a Serbian one.
(My too sense. . ., 7 December 2007 20:46)


I somehow did not see the huge banner saying "B92 is an integral part of Serbia" or "B92 for Serbs only".

Pity about all the attacks on Acko, I guess some Serbs simply can't imagine that some other Serbs might think all the bluster about continuing to rule Kosova is a waste of time and energy for Serbia and does nothing to help (the contrary in fact) the K Serbs. Get real guys; there are Israelis who support self-determination for Palestine, there are Americans who oppose the occupation of Iraq and there are Serbs who oppose the reoccupation of Kosova. It is actually a mark of a relatively civilised society.

Second, we read "How can I trust NATO or KFOR for that matter after event in March 2004. How KFOR can be trusted when they are incapable of protecting small Serbian community from the assaults that happen on the daily basis."

Well I'm no fan of the idea that foreign armies or protectorates are the way to go anywhere, let alone that they should be "trusted," but in the circumstances you can offer no alternative. Why spice it up by talking about "daily" attacks when you know the frequency is nothing remotely like that. Yes a lack of security continues, and needs to be addressed, but no there are not anything like "daily" attacks and in many areas there is relative normality (and in others still appalling situations, eg Orachovac). It is a process of re-building bridges which can not be rebuilt as long as Serbia, and some minority leaders, continue to insist that the majority be stuffed back under Serb rule.

As for march 2004, yes NATO performed poorly re protecting property, but in reality put protecting lives ahead of protecting property: of 19 killed, 8 tragically were Serbs, while the other 11 were Albanians shot dead by NATO troops while trying to attack Serbs. Thus Acko is right that Kfor has done "something" (not enough) to protect K Serbs while Serbia has done nothing (but make it worse for them).

Finally, the Serb posters saying that Kfor troops should leave if the country they comes from recognises unilateral declaration of independence. I'm afraid this merely shows your callousness towards the Serb minority. The Albanians do not need NATO there, much as they may love NATO; NATO troops are there primarily to protect the K Serbs from the unfortunate extremist streak that continues exist among pockets of Albanians. And tensions will most likely be hightened by a unilateral declaration by Pristina, and a similar unilateral declaration by north Mitrovica. Do you really want no, or reduced, Kfor troops to protect the smaller Serb enclaves in such a situation? Or do you imagine the Serbian army swarming through 2 million Albanians to reach Gracanica?

Doni ...
you just became my idol.."the new state of Dardania, which will soon be a part of USA". I really feel sorry for you if you and your Albanians believe in this...Thanks for a good laugh.

Acko,
Maybe you would like to be Serb ...and it is possible, but first you have to learn that Kosovo is written with O at the end, not A!!!

Acko,
You say to Kate that "we (Serbs)are tired from the non-sense similar to yours"
Interesting, because you conclude your comment by stating...
"KFOR has done a little to protect Serbs in Kosova..."

What are the chances that a Serb would spell Kosovo with the letter "a" as you did?
I am not so sure that you are a Serb.

I direct your attention to this comment --

"we (Serbs)are tired from the non-sense similar to yours .... KFOR has done a little to protect Serbs in Kosova but Serbia has done nothing.Acko, 7 December 2007 16:01)"

So... your a "Serb" who considers Kosovo as Kosova? hahaha well well well I guess that propaganda here is more than welcomed. Really trying to play your self off as a Serb you should really do some research less you get caught in the act...

Kate I think you have a little group of followers forming around you. These special "Serbs" seem to take exceptional interest in your posts.


If KFOR stays in Kosovo after albanains brake re-1244 then their presence is no longer valid and must leave or come to a agreement with Serbia again.

One, referring to themself as "Acko", claims to be a Serb but attacks a (strong and quite astute. . .you rock, Kate!) supporter and refers to some imaginery 'Kosova' place?? We Serbs call our province Kosovo.

Another, a supposed Dane, insists that 'Albanians have demonstrated their readiness for cohabitation with minorities.' How? By the frequent murder, beatings, forceable confinement to ghettos and intimidation of said minorities?

Please leave your propaganda with the ignorant Western-domiciled news forums . . .not with a Serbian one.

Acko the Albanian. Please stop insulting our intelligence by trying to pass yourself off as a Serb. No Serb would EVER refer to KosovO as Kosova.

Now you are getting sloppy.

Any country that accepts Kosovo as independent will become an occupyong force and therefore be removed legally by Serbia.

Your words do not mean anything. What you say can have meaning if NATO force return of 250,000 Serbs back to their land within KiM Serbian province with guaranty for full security. Another thing is return of all illegal cross borders from Albania back. Don’t you think that Serbia does not have records for each individual within province that are true K-Albanians. Current conflicts opened borders wide for illegal immigration. “Clean Cut”, I suggest you that you better use your time to provide papers from Serbia that will prove that you originated from Serbia (as a Serbian Citizen).