No progress in first round of Kosovo talks

Ahmet if you grew up in my country why is your English grammar and spelling only at the kindergarten level?Did you only live here for one year when you were 5 and attending kindergarten?

Here we go again, Albanians are growing weary of waiting, we expect to be recognised. So what! Keep on waiting and waiting, the Serbs have all the time in the world. Calm down Pristina lets watch this unfold. Serbia's plan for Kosovo took them 3 hours to explain, it took the K-Albanians a few seconds to say we want independence. Grow up, you people are like little children demanding things. I want this and I want that, please stop whinning and step up to table and help resolve the issue. Also, no partition of Kosovo and all the other things the Albanians say will not happen, first you have to own it then you can dictate. Remember Kosovo is STILL Serbian. AT the end of all this,if this gose to the UNSC for a vote I wish the Albanians luck, because they'll need all they can get. Yesterday a poster said that they will walk through the streets of Kosovo with a Serbian flag and basicly someone from the Albanian side said come and try it and see what happens, what does that mean? If I came to Kosovo with a new serbia flag(3X5) in one hand and my american passport(born and raised) in the other what will happen to me?

Kate and others

Ceku knows how the population of Kosovo feels about status.

Thats why he knows that Kosovan Parliament has to declare independence after 10 December.

He cannot compromise on independence because the population of Kosovo won't accept it. If he were to compromise on independence, he would be toppled within a day, and then we will elect a new goverment who will not compromise on independece.

Ceku is speaking for the popualtion of Kosovo, and he refelct the feelings of popualtion very well.

Ahmet is a man without a country - he walks about with a gazillion passports & boasts of his knowledge with nothing to support anything but the words he types against the Serbs. He wouldn't be happy anywhere.

To Nikshala - Ceku is speaking for the popualtion of Kosovo, and he refelct the feelings of popualtion very well.
(nikshala, 31. August 2007 12:22)

Sorry to burst your bubble, but Ceku is as confused as the rest of the "albanian camp" as this fellow calls Croatia his home. Would you happen to have a passport for Croatia too, Ahmet?

According to an earlier article yesterday on B92, Serbia is NOT a Legal State since has not yet elected a CONSTITUTIONAL Court.
Does this mean that the Serb representatives sent to Vienna to Discuss Kosovo's future have no real authority to represent the "non-state" of Serbia.

WOW, what a surprise. No breakthrough in the talks. This will be joy to the many albanians who comment here, and probably to many Serbs who will claim tha legally Kosovo will be regarded as Serbian regardless as to whoever recognises Kosovo.

That's the WORST scenario. Things will settle down, and then sometime in the future, triggered by who knows what, the unreolved status will be used as a pretext for war.

I hope all the nationalists on all sides think about this before writing much of the drivel that they post. let's hope the negotiting teams come to their senses and agree on partition/independence/autonomy.

PB - I agree. Things have to be decided one way or another. Limbo is the worst case scenario for everyone (except the various people who will inevitably take advantage of it).

Whatever happens it has to be set out legally so that the entire region can move forward, and all of our standards for security can be maintained.

Personally I don't believe that there will be independence but I do believe that with some goodwill there can be a compromise of some sort. The problem is made far worse by the Albanian team being led to believe that they need not discuss options at all, and if they don't get independence they will be able to declare unilaterally.

I don't think it's helpful for any outside nation/ body to encourage intransigence like this. Ceku et al can't take part in the talks and then say that they won't even speak about status. Someone has to pull them into proper negotiations.

Nikshala's money quote:

"[Ceku] cannot compromise on independence because the population of Kosovo won't accept it. If he were to compromise on independence, he would be toppled within a day, and then we will elect a new goverment who will not compromise on independece."

You're right on that. Both the Serb and Albanian camps have placed themselves in heavily uncompromising situations that were any side to budge, their political career, not to mention their credibility, would be pretty much be over. Kostunica, Tadic, et al, know equally well their political careers are riding on the line as well. This is a very long diplomatic version of the game Chicken. Who will be forced to blink first?

No surprise negotiations ended in another stalemate since both sides are counting on the larger support from Washington and Moscow respectively to back up their claims and give them security. I really don't envy Ischinger's job of trying to find a middle way, but it really seems that a solution will have to be imposed that, if independence is granted, will have to give the Serb camp everything it's demanding just a hair's breath below independence.

Wow Delije, (are you a "He" or a "She", anyway doesn't matter.

It seems that you have a lot of anger inside you, but I have a question for you.
What would happen if I walk on Belgrade's streets with Albanian flag in one hand and the Russian or Serbian passport in the other and a poster asking for Kosovo Independence in my chest? It's really a stupid scenario but just to counter your equally stupid question. What would you think would happen?

delije, appareantly you are fresh in USA, and I grew up there so now you see what democracy means. Yes, I have been many times in front of white House and we protested and caried Albanian flags and YES no one tells us why are you carying the flag of another country. But, Miri gave you the answer to that, but on your previous coments you are showing desrespect towards the contry that is offering you unlimited freedom of speach and exspression, you should try your mother russia for a change and tell us all how it feels.

Miri, my point is that Serbs fear for their lives just going to the market much less being a Serb. Albanians don't live behined barbed wire in Belgrade. Pristina paints this picture of peace between Albanians & Serbs. I have family that need to have a Kfor escort to get from S-Kosovo to Serbia proper because they fear for their lives. Ahmet, I was born and raised in this beautifull country. I express my opinion like you do yours. Freedom of speech it's beautiful thing. If your a citizen. God bless the Red Blue & White. PS. Bush sucks!

Nikshala - isn't Ceku stepping down anyway? He is one man in a provincial government and his political career is not more important than the security of the region. His smile is beginning to look more and more scary, just like Blair's did before he lost his grip.

Not three hours, but three years of explaining their "plan" cannot stop KosovA's way to independence. Whoever talks less, wins more.

Kate


what I was trying to say is that it is irrelevant what K albanian politician is in power. The truth is that 2 million albanians feel very strongly about independence, and they are not going to compromise on that.

Like I said many times before - accept it that albanians will NEVER EVER EVER accept to remain within Serbia again. Thats not a threat, or blackmail, or exaggeration, its a FACT. And it is the Milosevic regime that has made us so uncompormising on independence, to the point that we are willing to sacrifice alot. So you only have yourself to blame. So the starting point for any discussion is that -at least the albanian parts of Kosovo will receive independence.

What progress was expected there? Anyone has any idea?
I am sure none has an answer? But, what progress would I expect is answers on the following questions:
1. Where are, still, around 2500 missing persons from Kosova?
2. How to arrange reimbursement of the damages caused to Kosovar people and economy during the war?
3. Deadline for withdrawal of the Serbian parallel structures from Kosova!
4. Good neighboring relationships and Stability pact!!
5. All Balkan joined toward EU!
Etc etc…but I think that these five topics are enough to be discuse.

Joe: So this is the multi-ethnic & the worlds best minority rights to possibly come, "Kosova" that all you Albanians are praising about. It's funny how the Albanians love america and their values they hold so dear that I will get beaten up. What kind of message are you sending, I think it's violence. The K-Albanians are not ready for independence yet. Evreything the Albanians disagree with ends in some kind of violance (2004). Here in america any ethnic groups institution will fly their national flag along side the american flag w/out any fear of getting beaten up. First grow up and then we can talk about independence. You people can't even stop the violence among your own people, blood feuds, much less respecting other minorities rights, culture & heritige. Good luck if they get independence because after 10 year they"ll bombed for human rights abuse.

Ahmet,
You have been to the White House many times? I am born and raised in the USA and you apparently have been there more than most of us who have lived here all of our lives. I think you often exaggerate.
If you grew up in the USA (and I am not sure that you did), you certainly did not spend time learning the English language. If you want to appear credible, try telling the truth. It is better to be honorable than arrogant.
In a true democracy, it is not disrespectful to express one’s opinion. If it is done in a respectful and truthful manner, most people usually agree to disagree in mature discussions. I am an American who appreciates all of my blessings this country offers including free speech and expression, and I am not blind to its faults (and speak out freely about them) and often vote, regrettably, for the least corrupt.

Ahmet, I forgot to say that I love my country (USA) & proud of my heritige (Serbian). I just differ on the issue of Kosovo with my goverment. But again that is freedom of speech, right. Go Blue! (U of M)

Delije,
You would most likely be bitten up as a provocateur. The US authorities would also say that it was a stupid act of provocation. People would say that you got what you were looking for. Can you come up with something more constructive?

to me it looks like, this axtra negotiations were done to fill the appetites of Russians, who so naively think that by dragging these negotiations, the Kosovan team will loose its grip and nerve and let go off independence. That negotation team is there with a mandate, and that is to bring home independence, if they fail to deliver, we will elect a new team, no probs, these days its not hard to find a weel educated Kosovan. Since 1999 to today and ongoing, there are a lot of people who have studied, graduated, post graduated, and mastered and got Doc degrees in all profiles. Kosovo does not lack anything in political front, and the west has seen a lot of potential in Kosovan population, being so young and healthy, of course they will support our aim. But the worst that can happen after 10 December is that the resolution gous in the SC for vote and Russia vetoes it, than kosovo will gain independence, but not through a UN resolution, which as the serb camp is so many times mentioning, will leave Kosovo prone to future wars with Serbia, as Serbia will continue considering it its own territory, while Kosovo will move on as a state on its own. But i think there is a catch here, cus how can any of these two future states be allowed membership in EU when one does not recognise the existence of the other. Kosovo will recognise the existence of Serbia for sure, but as I see, Serbia with the current "democrats" in power will never change its mind. But hey we got to be positive and look at this from a positive side...

albanians forget it. marti's plan is destroyed!

It was hardly expected that this would be done in one session but what is clear is that Serbia has had a productive set of talks and have come ready to talk. Given that Serbia had requested direct talks the process looks like it is moving in it's direction and this seems likely to happen in September - hopefully the Serbian Albanians will be as willing to talk rather then inisit on what will never be acceptable.

I don't understand the Serb negotiations strategy. If you look at the Western press nobody pays attention to their autonomy proposal. Part of this is bad PR management (the proposals should be on internet and there should be a decent summary too).

But the main problem is the attitude towards the Ahtsaari proposal. By focussing on the independence aspect (about what nobody in the West cares) and ignoring its consequences for the exiles and Serbs in Kosovo the Serb government has put itself in an awkward position. I believe that instead it should attack the Ahtisaari proposal as "legalised ethnic cleansing" or (in a longer version) "an attempt to make the ethnic cleansing of Kosovo permanent by denying to implement real repairs".

Unless confronted and challenged this way Western diplomats will keep bringing up the Ahtisaari proposal.

Any reason why my comment is being censored?

According to an earlier article yesterday on B92, Serbia is NOT a Legal State since has not yet elected a CONSTITUTIONAL Court.
Does this mean that the Serb representatives sent to Vienna to Discuss Kosovo's future have no real authority to represent the "non-state" of Serbia.

Kate and others

Ceku knows how the population of Kosovo feels about status.

Thats why he knows that Kosovan Parliament has to declare independence after 10 December.

He cannot compromise on independence because the population of Kosovo won't accept it. If he were to compromise on independence, he would be toppled within a day, and then we will elect a new goverment who will not compromise on independece.

Ceku is speaking for the popualtion of Kosovo, and he refelct the feelings of popualtion very well.

What progress was expected there? Anyone has any idea?
I am sure none has an answer? But, what progress would I expect is answers on the following questions:
1. Where are, still, around 2500 missing persons from Kosova?
2. How to arrange reimbursement of the damages caused to Kosovar people and economy during the war?
3. Deadline for withdrawal of the Serbian parallel structures from Kosova!
4. Good neighboring relationships and Stability pact!!
5. All Balkan joined toward EU!
Etc etc…but I think that these five topics are enough to be discuse.

Delije,
You would most likely be bitten up as a provocateur. The US authorities would also say that it was a stupid act of provocation. People would say that you got what you were looking for. Can you come up with something more constructive?

delije, appareantly you are fresh in USA, and I grew up there so now you see what democracy means. Yes, I have been many times in front of white House and we protested and caried Albanian flags and YES no one tells us why are you carying the flag of another country. But, Miri gave you the answer to that, but on your previous coments you are showing desrespect towards the contry that is offering you unlimited freedom of speach and exspression, you should try your mother russia for a change and tell us all how it feels.

WOW, what a surprise. No breakthrough in the talks. This will be joy to the many albanians who comment here, and probably to many Serbs who will claim tha legally Kosovo will be regarded as Serbian regardless as to whoever recognises Kosovo.

That's the WORST scenario. Things will settle down, and then sometime in the future, triggered by who knows what, the unreolved status will be used as a pretext for war.

I hope all the nationalists on all sides think about this before writing much of the drivel that they post. let's hope the negotiting teams come to their senses and agree on partition/independence/autonomy.

PB - I agree. Things have to be decided one way or another. Limbo is the worst case scenario for everyone (except the various people who will inevitably take advantage of it).

Whatever happens it has to be set out legally so that the entire region can move forward, and all of our standards for security can be maintained.

Personally I don't believe that there will be independence but I do believe that with some goodwill there can be a compromise of some sort. The problem is made far worse by the Albanian team being led to believe that they need not discuss options at all, and if they don't get independence they will be able to declare unilaterally.

I don't think it's helpful for any outside nation/ body to encourage intransigence like this. Ceku et al can't take part in the talks and then say that they won't even speak about status. Someone has to pull them into proper negotiations.

Here we go again, Albanians are growing weary of waiting, we expect to be recognised. So what! Keep on waiting and waiting, the Serbs have all the time in the world. Calm down Pristina lets watch this unfold. Serbia's plan for Kosovo took them 3 hours to explain, it took the K-Albanians a few seconds to say we want independence. Grow up, you people are like little children demanding things. I want this and I want that, please stop whinning and step up to table and help resolve the issue. Also, no partition of Kosovo and all the other things the Albanians say will not happen, first you have to own it then you can dictate. Remember Kosovo is STILL Serbian. AT the end of all this,if this gose to the UNSC for a vote I wish the Albanians luck, because they'll need all they can get. Yesterday a poster said that they will walk through the streets of Kosovo with a Serbian flag and basicly someone from the Albanian side said come and try it and see what happens, what does that mean? If I came to Kosovo with a new serbia flag(3X5) in one hand and my american passport(born and raised) in the other what will happen to me?

Nikshala - isn't Ceku stepping down anyway? He is one man in a provincial government and his political career is not more important than the security of the region. His smile is beginning to look more and more scary, just like Blair's did before he lost his grip.

I don't understand the Serb negotiations strategy. If you look at the Western press nobody pays attention to their autonomy proposal. Part of this is bad PR management (the proposals should be on internet and there should be a decent summary too).

But the main problem is the attitude towards the Ahtsaari proposal. By focussing on the independence aspect (about what nobody in the West cares) and ignoring its consequences for the exiles and Serbs in Kosovo the Serb government has put itself in an awkward position. I believe that instead it should attack the Ahtisaari proposal as "legalised ethnic cleansing" or (in a longer version) "an attempt to make the ethnic cleansing of Kosovo permanent by denying to implement real repairs".

Unless confronted and challenged this way Western diplomats will keep bringing up the Ahtisaari proposal.

Not three hours, but three years of explaining their "plan" cannot stop KosovA's way to independence. Whoever talks less, wins more.

Kate


what I was trying to say is that it is irrelevant what K albanian politician is in power. The truth is that 2 million albanians feel very strongly about independence, and they are not going to compromise on that.

Like I said many times before - accept it that albanians will NEVER EVER EVER accept to remain within Serbia again. Thats not a threat, or blackmail, or exaggeration, its a FACT. And it is the Milosevic regime that has made us so uncompormising on independence, to the point that we are willing to sacrifice alot. So you only have yourself to blame. So the starting point for any discussion is that -at least the albanian parts of Kosovo will receive independence.

Nikshala's money quote:

"[Ceku] cannot compromise on independence because the population of Kosovo won't accept it. If he were to compromise on independence, he would be toppled within a day, and then we will elect a new goverment who will not compromise on independece."

You're right on that. Both the Serb and Albanian camps have placed themselves in heavily uncompromising situations that were any side to budge, their political career, not to mention their credibility, would be pretty much be over. Kostunica, Tadic, et al, know equally well their political careers are riding on the line as well. This is a very long diplomatic version of the game Chicken. Who will be forced to blink first?

No surprise negotiations ended in another stalemate since both sides are counting on the larger support from Washington and Moscow respectively to back up their claims and give them security. I really don't envy Ischinger's job of trying to find a middle way, but it really seems that a solution will have to be imposed that, if independence is granted, will have to give the Serb camp everything it's demanding just a hair's breath below independence.

to me it looks like, this axtra negotiations were done to fill the appetites of Russians, who so naively think that by dragging these negotiations, the Kosovan team will loose its grip and nerve and let go off independence. That negotation team is there with a mandate, and that is to bring home independence, if they fail to deliver, we will elect a new team, no probs, these days its not hard to find a weel educated Kosovan. Since 1999 to today and ongoing, there are a lot of people who have studied, graduated, post graduated, and mastered and got Doc degrees in all profiles. Kosovo does not lack anything in political front, and the west has seen a lot of potential in Kosovan population, being so young and healthy, of course they will support our aim. But the worst that can happen after 10 December is that the resolution gous in the SC for vote and Russia vetoes it, than kosovo will gain independence, but not through a UN resolution, which as the serb camp is so many times mentioning, will leave Kosovo prone to future wars with Serbia, as Serbia will continue considering it its own territory, while Kosovo will move on as a state on its own. But i think there is a catch here, cus how can any of these two future states be allowed membership in EU when one does not recognise the existence of the other. Kosovo will recognise the existence of Serbia for sure, but as I see, Serbia with the current "democrats" in power will never change its mind. But hey we got to be positive and look at this from a positive side...

albanians forget it. marti's plan is destroyed!

It was hardly expected that this would be done in one session but what is clear is that Serbia has had a productive set of talks and have come ready to talk. Given that Serbia had requested direct talks the process looks like it is moving in it's direction and this seems likely to happen in September - hopefully the Serbian Albanians will be as willing to talk rather then inisit on what will never be acceptable.

Joe: So this is the multi-ethnic & the worlds best minority rights to possibly come, "Kosova" that all you Albanians are praising about. It's funny how the Albanians love america and their values they hold so dear that I will get beaten up. What kind of message are you sending, I think it's violence. The K-Albanians are not ready for independence yet. Evreything the Albanians disagree with ends in some kind of violance (2004). Here in america any ethnic groups institution will fly their national flag along side the american flag w/out any fear of getting beaten up. First grow up and then we can talk about independence. You people can't even stop the violence among your own people, blood feuds, much less respecting other minorities rights, culture & heritige. Good luck if they get independence because after 10 year they"ll bombed for human rights abuse.

Wow Delije, (are you a "He" or a "She", anyway doesn't matter.

It seems that you have a lot of anger inside you, but I have a question for you.
What would happen if I walk on Belgrade's streets with Albanian flag in one hand and the Russian or Serbian passport in the other and a poster asking for Kosovo Independence in my chest? It's really a stupid scenario but just to counter your equally stupid question. What would you think would happen?

Ahmet if you grew up in my country why is your English grammar and spelling only at the kindergarten level?Did you only live here for one year when you were 5 and attending kindergarten?

Miri, my point is that Serbs fear for their lives just going to the market much less being a Serb. Albanians don't live behined barbed wire in Belgrade. Pristina paints this picture of peace between Albanians & Serbs. I have family that need to have a Kfor escort to get from S-Kosovo to Serbia proper because they fear for their lives. Ahmet, I was born and raised in this beautifull country. I express my opinion like you do yours. Freedom of speech it's beautiful thing. If your a citizen. God bless the Red Blue & White. PS. Bush sucks!

Ahmet,
You have been to the White House many times? I am born and raised in the USA and you apparently have been there more than most of us who have lived here all of our lives. I think you often exaggerate.
If you grew up in the USA (and I am not sure that you did), you certainly did not spend time learning the English language. If you want to appear credible, try telling the truth. It is better to be honorable than arrogant.
In a true democracy, it is not disrespectful to express one’s opinion. If it is done in a respectful and truthful manner, most people usually agree to disagree in mature discussions. I am an American who appreciates all of my blessings this country offers including free speech and expression, and I am not blind to its faults (and speak out freely about them) and often vote, regrettably, for the least corrupt.

Ahmet, I forgot to say that I love my country (USA) & proud of my heritige (Serbian). I just differ on the issue of Kosovo with my goverment. But again that is freedom of speech, right. Go Blue! (U of M)

Any reason why my comment is being censored?

Ahmet is a man without a country - he walks about with a gazillion passports & boasts of his knowledge with nothing to support anything but the words he types against the Serbs. He wouldn't be happy anywhere.

To Nikshala - Ceku is speaking for the popualtion of Kosovo, and he refelct the feelings of popualtion very well.
(nikshala, 31. August 2007 12:22)

Sorry to burst your bubble, but Ceku is as confused as the rest of the "albanian camp" as this fellow calls Croatia his home. Would you happen to have a passport for Croatia too, Ahmet?