Communist emblems to stay in palace

The communists did a lot more to develop Serbia than did the karadjordjevic dynasty. Heck, in many ways the Kradjordjevic dynasty was bad.

During the Karadjordjevic times the west owned most of our industry. Disease was widespread and illiteracy was widespread. The king banned the socialists and communists. Who developed the country? He sure didn't, the communists did.

It is all very well for the prince to dictate the „law“ of Dedinje but he being nothing more than an self assumed head of a non ruling family, with only a piece of paper from the Djindjic government allowing him to use the palaces as a guest of the state, should be careful when it comes to promoting any sort of history.

He has shut out the rest of his family, including those members of the Prince Paul and Prince Andrej branches who do not agree with his political activities. For anyone who cares to look under the first two pages of the state budget, an allowance of almost $6 million has been allocated to the upkeep of the so-called Crown Prince and his Greek wife, although this has been badly disguised by the former Dinkic office as a financial contribution to the upkeep of the cultural importance of the Dedinje complex.

If Tito was anything, he was transparent and did not have to pretend to be what he was not while he too enjoyed the lavish palaces of Dedinje. Perhaps the future will shine a new light on the similarities between the vulgarity of an ex communist past followed by an equally vulgar faction of a former royal house which is trying to pull the wool over the eyes of the people of ex-Yugoslavia in its ploys to assume more than it is legally entitled to.

I fear as long as the various governments of Serbia turn a blind eye as to the illegal activities of one Mr. Alexander Karadjordjevic and even help him in his farce then the people of Serbia, to whom Dedinje belongs to today, will have no say in what goes or stays on the complex.

I would disagree with keeping the communist regalia because if the Germans got rid of the swastika after 1945, Serbia should get rid of the communist symbols that were put in place after the same period. It's not as if there is much difference between Nazism and Communism, with oppression of people, specific economic models, and GULAG's/prisons/camps for so many of the dissidents and/or innocents, all being hallmarks of both systems which pretend to have been so different from each other, but were in fact not so.

I also want to say "thank goodness" that communism is dying out in the world and I hope we never see the system in Europe ever again. If Karl Marx had been fatally trampled over by a horse when he was younger, we might instead have seen a bigger world population and more prosperity.

I laughed when I read the bit about “only dictators erase and cleanse history” in this article. Here in the states it is widely known that Peter II, Prince Alexander’s dad stopped being the “KING” back in 1945 when he gave the royal powers to regency and the regency gave them to Tito to abolish. The poor guy had to walk the earth as a would be king and denied his own son as having the powers or blessing to be any sort of royal figurehead in the future. Peter II issued a will in which Alexander Karageorgevic got 5 thousand dollars and nothing more from his dad. Alexander accepted this and it is noted in the US courts that this is the case. He followed this up with comments that he was not interested in having anything to do with his royal connection and did not want to entertain becoming the king if ever asked to do so (again noted in the US papers). He now tries to tell us that he is the king and that he has the rights of the king although he only wants to use the title of crown prince because he’s such a great guy. Look who’s washing history now buddy.

Sasa USA 4th July 2007 (happy independace day George W)

It is important to leave the symbols where they are. I find the communist period hurtful as, like many other Serbs in the UK, our families suffered. Whereas Tito re-wrote history and tried to erase the past it is splendid to see our Crown Prince taking such an admmirable stance.

Sasa, you have to keep in mind that the guy probably had to say that he didn't wish to have a connection with his royal blood because at the time, if he said he did want to have a connection with his royal heritage, there would have been people powerful enough to get rid of him. Maybe you have been living in the US too much...

I met a man here in Belgrade on the weekend. He was staying at a hotel as he is not allowed to live in his home. I find his name is Vladimir Karadjordjevic. He is prince like Alexander Karadjordjevic but is not welcome to stay at his grandfather palace because of oppression from Aleksandar Karadjordjevic. Vladimir came to Belgrade to take humanitarian goods to Smedrevo refugee camp and had to sleep at a hotel because of this. It look like Aleksandar Karadjordjevic has the same moral as communists and I think he is right to keep the reminders of this time in Dedinje. It perhaps make him to feel the more at home with his friend Tito and Milosevic. Well done for you Vladimir Karadjordjevic.

Boro Jankovic from Beograd

Ahh beee92 please get up to speed on lingo, why do you get all that money (koji ste vi foliranti)... Prince is not (will not be) Aleksandar Karadjordjevic II but Aleksandar II Karadjordjevic.

He’s fortunate to have the palace back.

I wish the Serb Republic would give back the land deeds to the land my family fought for during and after the Austro-Hungarian Empire, Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes, Royal Jugoslavia, both Chetnik and Partizan WWII resistance movements, SFRJ and the Serb Republic.

I’m not familiar with Serbia’s budget, however, if the White Palace is a museum or a heritage building then a state budget is justified.

If my family were to receive our hills back from the Serb Republic, I would not up heave and cleanse the villages and people, nor would I ask Sarajevo to pay 10 billion dollars for the trees that were removed in the decades since confiscation.

This state theft during Tito’s time occurred to Chetnik and Partizan Serbs. So, who was the boss? Lazy have not illiterate peasant leaders? If those leaders who took land away, post WWII, were to have applied for VISAs to the West, would they have been granted or rejected?

Dearest Vladan

You knock B92 for the lingo but you make the same mistake as all ignorant people on the matter of Royalty. This is in no way an insult but a history lesson. Only a reigning King of any country, including Serbia or the former Yugoslavia, can by law append a number onto his name. i.e. James II, Charles I or our very own King Aleksandar I. When you look at it this way, it really does not matter where you mistakenly put the II for prince Alexander of Dedinje. As for the communist emblems, I could not care a bit if they stay or if they go. One must only know what is that they represent(ed) and not speak from the mouth of fools.
God bless Serbia and spare her from the fool!
Marko Gasic

Only Serbs would ever consider maintaining the legacy of Communist Yugoslavia "as a tribute ot the past..."

Rather bizarre that all of eatsdren Europe is tossing those symbols intothe dustbin yet Serbs foolishly preserve these momentos. No wonder Slovenes, Croats and even Montenegrans wanted out and to seperate from this type of mentality.

Yugoslavia from 1945-2000 existed at the detriment of Serbs and Serbia. And for Serbs to remain the lone supporters of such a dismal and oppressive regime is truly bizarre.

Nick you have it all wrong, Serbs are the most anti-communist people in Europe pretty much.

Communism really damaged Serbia soul and we can see the effects of it today...thankfully they are slowly leaving.

Serbia has done a lot to reestablish its royal past. Look at the flag and coat of arms they have the Royal Crown of the Obrenovic dynasty which I think were better than the Karadjordjevic but unfortunately they are no longer with us.

I don't see the connection with Croat or Slovans leaving becaseu of the... a lot of are nostalgic about Tito and SFRY etc..

as for the article it self?

Bah! I don't care about communists, I say remove the damn symbols and lets move on.

Bre de Sam,

I agree with most what your say. A Communist Serb was really a Yugoslav and only a patriotic Serb would have fought against Communist tyranny. And those patriotic Serbs were Chetniks under General Mihailovich.

So yes, the very soul of Serbia prior to 1945, was very much anti-communist. In fact, Serbia proper was the last place to fall to Tito's Communists in very late 1944-1945. Prior to that, they only found popular support in Bosnia and parts of Croatia which were suffering from the Croat Ustasha genocide.

After Tito took power, that seems to have changed so much so that only Serbs seem to want to maintain these dinosaur relics of Tito's horrid communist past.

You people are pathetic. The fact that there are people in Serbia that honor Tito, his Communists, Milosevic, testifies to the fact that Serbia will always be the toilet of Europe. It's sad, really, as a Serb myself to see that we will really go nowhere. My grandfather was a chetnik and fought for King Peter and had to escape to America and I can still see that there are Serbs over there that still believe in 'Yugoslavia', in Tito, and we can live together with Croats and Muslims in one big happy family. You still want to live together with them in some workers Paradise? Get a life! Get a job! And stop voting for losers like Milosevic, the Radicals, etc.

We'll never learn...

As a member of the nobility whose family had all our property taken by the communists I actually support retaining the communist symbols as a part of the building's history. Its easy enough to remove them sometime in the future if needed, but you can never put them back once they're gone. It represents our history, and that is what it is. I personally do not agree with destroying monuments of previous ruling classes. Too much history has been lost in the past to that kind of thinking. The Library of Alexandria is the most extreme example of this kind of action.

"not as if there is much difference between Nazism and Communism, with oppression of people, specific economic models, and GULAG's/prisons/camps for so many of the dissidents and/or innocents"
However, I am going to have to disagree a bit with Stevo and some of the others here. Yes, Stalin's version of Communism was incredibly brutal, probably even worse in many ways to the Nazi's. However, while I don't agree with a lot of Tito's policies, he wasn't a monster on the level of Stalin or Hitler. Yes, he did commit some horrible crimes, but his victims do not number in the 10's of millions like Stalin or Hitler.
Like it or not, life under Tito for the average Yugoslav was a sort of Golden Age for our people. In no other period of our history was the standard of living so good.

I would disagree with keeping the communist regalia because if the Germans got rid of the swastika after 1945, Serbia should get rid of the communist symbols that were put in place after the same period. It's not as if there is much difference between Nazism and Communism, with oppression of people, specific economic models, and GULAG's/prisons/camps for so many of the dissidents and/or innocents, all being hallmarks of both systems which pretend to have been so different from each other, but were in fact not so.

I also want to say "thank goodness" that communism is dying out in the world and I hope we never see the system in Europe ever again. If Karl Marx had been fatally trampled over by a horse when he was younger, we might instead have seen a bigger world population and more prosperity.

It is important to leave the symbols where they are. I find the communist period hurtful as, like many other Serbs in the UK, our families suffered. Whereas Tito re-wrote history and tried to erase the past it is splendid to see our Crown Prince taking such an admmirable stance.

Only Serbs would ever consider maintaining the legacy of Communist Yugoslavia "as a tribute ot the past..."

Rather bizarre that all of eatsdren Europe is tossing those symbols intothe dustbin yet Serbs foolishly preserve these momentos. No wonder Slovenes, Croats and even Montenegrans wanted out and to seperate from this type of mentality.

Yugoslavia from 1945-2000 existed at the detriment of Serbs and Serbia. And for Serbs to remain the lone supporters of such a dismal and oppressive regime is truly bizarre.

Nick you have it all wrong, Serbs are the most anti-communist people in Europe pretty much.

Communism really damaged Serbia soul and we can see the effects of it today...thankfully they are slowly leaving.

Serbia has done a lot to reestablish its royal past. Look at the flag and coat of arms they have the Royal Crown of the Obrenovic dynasty which I think were better than the Karadjordjevic but unfortunately they are no longer with us.

I don't see the connection with Croat or Slovans leaving becaseu of the... a lot of are nostalgic about Tito and SFRY etc..

as for the article it self?

Bah! I don't care about communists, I say remove the damn symbols and lets move on.

Bre de Sam,

I agree with most what your say. A Communist Serb was really a Yugoslav and only a patriotic Serb would have fought against Communist tyranny. And those patriotic Serbs were Chetniks under General Mihailovich.

So yes, the very soul of Serbia prior to 1945, was very much anti-communist. In fact, Serbia proper was the last place to fall to Tito's Communists in very late 1944-1945. Prior to that, they only found popular support in Bosnia and parts of Croatia which were suffering from the Croat Ustasha genocide.

After Tito took power, that seems to have changed so much so that only Serbs seem to want to maintain these dinosaur relics of Tito's horrid communist past.

It is all very well for the prince to dictate the „law“ of Dedinje but he being nothing more than an self assumed head of a non ruling family, with only a piece of paper from the Djindjic government allowing him to use the palaces as a guest of the state, should be careful when it comes to promoting any sort of history.

He has shut out the rest of his family, including those members of the Prince Paul and Prince Andrej branches who do not agree with his political activities. For anyone who cares to look under the first two pages of the state budget, an allowance of almost $6 million has been allocated to the upkeep of the so-called Crown Prince and his Greek wife, although this has been badly disguised by the former Dinkic office as a financial contribution to the upkeep of the cultural importance of the Dedinje complex.

If Tito was anything, he was transparent and did not have to pretend to be what he was not while he too enjoyed the lavish palaces of Dedinje. Perhaps the future will shine a new light on the similarities between the vulgarity of an ex communist past followed by an equally vulgar faction of a former royal house which is trying to pull the wool over the eyes of the people of ex-Yugoslavia in its ploys to assume more than it is legally entitled to.

I fear as long as the various governments of Serbia turn a blind eye as to the illegal activities of one Mr. Alexander Karadjordjevic and even help him in his farce then the people of Serbia, to whom Dedinje belongs to today, will have no say in what goes or stays on the complex.

I laughed when I read the bit about “only dictators erase and cleanse history” in this article. Here in the states it is widely known that Peter II, Prince Alexander’s dad stopped being the “KING” back in 1945 when he gave the royal powers to regency and the regency gave them to Tito to abolish. The poor guy had to walk the earth as a would be king and denied his own son as having the powers or blessing to be any sort of royal figurehead in the future. Peter II issued a will in which Alexander Karageorgevic got 5 thousand dollars and nothing more from his dad. Alexander accepted this and it is noted in the US courts that this is the case. He followed this up with comments that he was not interested in having anything to do with his royal connection and did not want to entertain becoming the king if ever asked to do so (again noted in the US papers). He now tries to tell us that he is the king and that he has the rights of the king although he only wants to use the title of crown prince because he’s such a great guy. Look who’s washing history now buddy.

Sasa USA 4th July 2007 (happy independace day George W)

Sasa, you have to keep in mind that the guy probably had to say that he didn't wish to have a connection with his royal blood because at the time, if he said he did want to have a connection with his royal heritage, there would have been people powerful enough to get rid of him. Maybe you have been living in the US too much...

I met a man here in Belgrade on the weekend. He was staying at a hotel as he is not allowed to live in his home. I find his name is Vladimir Karadjordjevic. He is prince like Alexander Karadjordjevic but is not welcome to stay at his grandfather palace because of oppression from Aleksandar Karadjordjevic. Vladimir came to Belgrade to take humanitarian goods to Smedrevo refugee camp and had to sleep at a hotel because of this. It look like Aleksandar Karadjordjevic has the same moral as communists and I think he is right to keep the reminders of this time in Dedinje. It perhaps make him to feel the more at home with his friend Tito and Milosevic. Well done for you Vladimir Karadjordjevic.

Boro Jankovic from Beograd

Ahh beee92 please get up to speed on lingo, why do you get all that money (koji ste vi foliranti)... Prince is not (will not be) Aleksandar Karadjordjevic II but Aleksandar II Karadjordjevic.

He’s fortunate to have the palace back.

I wish the Serb Republic would give back the land deeds to the land my family fought for during and after the Austro-Hungarian Empire, Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes, Royal Jugoslavia, both Chetnik and Partizan WWII resistance movements, SFRJ and the Serb Republic.

I’m not familiar with Serbia’s budget, however, if the White Palace is a museum or a heritage building then a state budget is justified.

If my family were to receive our hills back from the Serb Republic, I would not up heave and cleanse the villages and people, nor would I ask Sarajevo to pay 10 billion dollars for the trees that were removed in the decades since confiscation.

This state theft during Tito’s time occurred to Chetnik and Partizan Serbs. So, who was the boss? Lazy have not illiterate peasant leaders? If those leaders who took land away, post WWII, were to have applied for VISAs to the West, would they have been granted or rejected?

Dearest Vladan

You knock B92 for the lingo but you make the same mistake as all ignorant people on the matter of Royalty. This is in no way an insult but a history lesson. Only a reigning King of any country, including Serbia or the former Yugoslavia, can by law append a number onto his name. i.e. James II, Charles I or our very own King Aleksandar I. When you look at it this way, it really does not matter where you mistakenly put the II for prince Alexander of Dedinje. As for the communist emblems, I could not care a bit if they stay or if they go. One must only know what is that they represent(ed) and not speak from the mouth of fools.
God bless Serbia and spare her from the fool!
Marko Gasic

The communists did a lot more to develop Serbia than did the karadjordjevic dynasty. Heck, in many ways the Kradjordjevic dynasty was bad.

During the Karadjordjevic times the west owned most of our industry. Disease was widespread and illiteracy was widespread. The king banned the socialists and communists. Who developed the country? He sure didn't, the communists did.

You people are pathetic. The fact that there are people in Serbia that honor Tito, his Communists, Milosevic, testifies to the fact that Serbia will always be the toilet of Europe. It's sad, really, as a Serb myself to see that we will really go nowhere. My grandfather was a chetnik and fought for King Peter and had to escape to America and I can still see that there are Serbs over there that still believe in 'Yugoslavia', in Tito, and we can live together with Croats and Muslims in one big happy family. You still want to live together with them in some workers Paradise? Get a life! Get a job! And stop voting for losers like Milosevic, the Radicals, etc.

We'll never learn...

As a member of the nobility whose family had all our property taken by the communists I actually support retaining the communist symbols as a part of the building's history. Its easy enough to remove them sometime in the future if needed, but you can never put them back once they're gone. It represents our history, and that is what it is. I personally do not agree with destroying monuments of previous ruling classes. Too much history has been lost in the past to that kind of thinking. The Library of Alexandria is the most extreme example of this kind of action.

"not as if there is much difference between Nazism and Communism, with oppression of people, specific economic models, and GULAG's/prisons/camps for so many of the dissidents and/or innocents"
However, I am going to have to disagree a bit with Stevo and some of the others here. Yes, Stalin's version of Communism was incredibly brutal, probably even worse in many ways to the Nazi's. However, while I don't agree with a lot of Tito's policies, he wasn't a monster on the level of Stalin or Hitler. Yes, he did commit some horrible crimes, but his victims do not number in the 10's of millions like Stalin or Hitler.
Like it or not, life under Tito for the average Yugoslav was a sort of Golden Age for our people. In no other period of our history was the standard of living so good.