Serwer: Further delays dangerous

just another funny guy.
Mr. Serwer, what you are trying is just purposeless. the pan-albanian idea ( not to call it fascism ) is already a fact.


reminds me of Mr.Polt who tried to tell us that Serbia and its southern province won´t enter the EU without a status-solution.
but what Mr.Polt did not explain how Cyprus could enter the EU although there is an unsolved matter too.
Mr. Serwer, Mr.Polt
empty words, just ...

empty words.

if there should be only a blink of violence coming from the Albanians.. NATO should hit them hard in order to make it clear that violence won´t pay off.
in such case they should remember that slogan of a supplier of sports apparel..

just do it.

What is less Pan-Albanian then creating a 2nd Albanian on Internationally recognised Serbian territory. Pandersing to this notion that different ethnic groups have an inalien right to create a sepetare nation within another. Does the American leadership no longer believe in a multicultural society? If so have they told their electorate that the foundations that built their nation have been eroded and that it is now a free for all and any ethnic group who are predominante in a region has a right to refuse to co-exist and call for independence.

eveything Serwer says is wrong and/ or propaganda. if i were interviewing him i would have asked him if sarajevo also had a problem?

he is dead wrong on russia. DEAD WRONG. it is unlikely that the PM of russia found it necessary to personnaly state what he stated only to be "bought off" 2 weeks later. what a slap in the face to russia. what disrespect?! it is this same attitude that created the russia you now see.

"as Serbia doesn’t want them [Albanians] for its citizens"

Has any Serbian politician ever actually said this?

what a slap in the face to russia. Remember beofre NATO bombing, russia said this will never happened and aslo assured milosheviq on this issue. Sure enough Mr. Clinton gave the order to start bombing, what a slap in the face. History will repeat itself again when it comes to russia.They know better than to piss off UNCLE SAM. Mr. Serwer is right regarding a speedy solution for KOSOVA.

jovan,
it is hard for anyone to accept your comment since it is mainly up to Serbia's nationalism if the Balkans had suffered deaths and destructions.
I would also ask Philip Davies where he had been for the last 20 years: Serbians politicians have clearly showed that they do not consider the K-Albanians as Serbian citizens: the exclusion of Albanians from voting the Serbian Constitution is an indisputable proof of that situation.

LOL, all of these think tank people who have never steped foot in the balkans can make all of these predictions and solutions to solve the problems. Why listen to them. NATO does not want to crack down on those who cause violence but in 2004 they did, do the albanians believe they would not do this no they did not and rioted anyway burned churches and cars and when KFOR crack down on them by putting in a curfew and it cause more harm to the already struggling economy will they do it again no they won't because again they will be on CNN and will be demonized yet again because some dumbasses choose to cause problems.

Kosovo Albanians were able to vote in elections from 1990 until 1999 but most (though not all) chose not to. The current situation in Kosovo means it is practically impossible for the Serbian authorities to keep accurate lists of the Albanian voters as there is no absolute way of knowing if they are genuine citizens or are from Albania or Macedonia. Several US states often wipe people from the electoral rolls when they consistantly fail to use their vote.

Again I assert something and someone says it is not true without actually directly disputing my assertion.

If Kosovo doesn't become independent and does become a proper autonomous province within Serbia as the Serbian government wants then the situation will be different and the electoral rolls would have to be harmonised.

Philip Davies, well said in your earlier comment and reposte to Massimo. Yet it would not surprise me if Massimo posted that same comment again in a month. I hope others are reading and understand what you have said so that maybe we can move on - at least that is true of the ruling leadership in Serbia.

I re-iterate the ethnic-Albanian leadership need to comme out of the 90's mentality and realise what the term negotiations are. It is in no-ones interest to not grasp the opportunity to move forward together - for the alternative will be as Blag has so often said be "messy". Win-win is the best solution and no--one with a rational argument can break up a nation just because one ethnic group predominate in a particular region. Serbia is not Yugoslavia and it's terrotory is not up for grabs so laike Balir said "conform to it".

The Presevo Albanians taking part in the elections on Sunday is a good example. They had also boycotted for years and now I think have one representative in the assembly.

Hey Serbs why the long faces.
You're getting what you want with Kosova independence, Albanian Kosovars will no longer be Serbian citizens!

This does not stop the indomitable Blag, self-proclaimed crack political and economic analyst for all of Serbdom! Maybe you should get a part-time job or something.

Princip, this is the 18th time that you have said 'conform to it'. If you dont have anything new to add dont waist your time telling the same old story; As for blag serbs are lucky to have someone like you! You are going to save the day for them mate, "with your perfect political story lines". Now just remember that the Albanians didn.t fight since 1913 up to 1999 just to be left under Serbian rule again, and they will go to the end to get their independence; Any other solution that Serbs and their Rusian friends will try to impose as they have done so far on Albanians will just bring more of what we had on the last 15 years!! A famous person in England said one time; 'What we learn from history is that We never learn from history'. thanks.

Davies,
When you make a statement that you expect us to believe, you should give a source of your information. Otherwise, your assertion is as questionable as its response!

arben,

no matter what you say i will not be dragged into commentary beneath me. these forums work best when there is mature, strong, and developed thinking (instead of the commentary you represent).

vigorous civil argument is the hallmark of civic maturity and not personal defamation of those who present strong arguments. however, i do realize that it is a common occurence among detractors to personally impugn those who we lack the capacity to argue with.

one should not be fearful or resentful of strong thinking by th eopposition... but rather look forward to it as it tends to refine our own arguments. i for one have developed sounder argumentation by listening to my albanian colleagues insead of closing my mind to what they have to say.

one part of this site is for the advancement of ideas by opposing camps... and not for the purposes you use it for.

Fhilip Davies wrote:

"as Serbia doesn’t want them [Albanians] for its citizens"
Has any Serbian politician ever actually said this?

I am not aware they have openly, but their actions exactly confirm Mr. Serwer's comment.

Arben,

Your last comment doesn't represent the best of Albanians. Please, refrain from the personal attacks!
Long live Kosova!
Alban Castro,

dona,

your threats of violence are BORING and put me to sleep.

basically you will do as you are told by the international community b/c you have no choice. nor will you become violent b/c you only harm yourselves.

no one cares about your prizren leagues or pan albanian independence movements (just as they do not care about serb patrimony).

this is about 3 things:

1. legalities
2. precedent
3. viability

everything else is irrelevant.

"election’s outcome has shown “nothing has changed” compared to the period before the vote." Serwer is exactly to the point: Serbia could not possibly change that fast. Most of your politicians belong to the same criminal, illusionist, Milosevic-like clique.

RE: Pan Albanian Argument

The fuel that sparked the Pan Albanian fire is when the US dropped troops to FYROM in 1995.
It continued when NATO bombed Serbia in 1999 with a Rambouiett agreement which reminded the Serbs of the ultimatum sent to them by the Austro-Hungarian empire when the Archduke Ferdinand was shot in 1914.

Pan-Albaniasm continues to grow with:

Illegal Albanians pouring through the Greek Border.

The Presevo Albanians in Serbia continuing to hinder the development of democracy in Serbia.

The growing populations of Albanians in Montenegro and the Republic of Macedonia who would not have inherited a bigger problem instead of staying with a strong federated Yugoslavia.

And of course Kosovo where the Serb Minority has been decimated by Albanian Extremists who continue to wipe out any traces of Serbian history and culture in the region.

Arben, you didn't state what piece of information you wanted me to source but I suspect it was the one about Albanian's being able to vote.

http://lamar.colostate.edu/~grjan/kosovohistory.html

"In the Yugoslav elections of December 1992 Albanian leadership in Kosovo advised Albanians not to vote and in large numbers they did not."

"It is likely that Milosevic could have been defeated if the Albanians in Kosovo had in fact voted."

Can you find a source that contradicts this and states that the Albanians of Kosovo were removed from the electoral roll in the period 1990-1999?

To concerned:
For those who ignore everything about “Serbia’s Democracy” and Serbian will to rule other nations.
1997 Registered Voters 7.225.860
1999 Registered Voters 6.396.606
Missing 829.254 Voters
Where they are? Missing? Where?...
What about 400.000 Serbian Gypsies without ID-s????

The "high" turnout for supporters of the Radicals simply is an expression of frustration towards the Policies of the West and how they treat Serbia. The West certainly made it seem at the time that if Serbia only arrested Milosevic and sent him to the Hague that relations would return to normal. The West also made promises in Resolution 1244 at the UN which they clearly did not honor. Is it any wonder that a significant portion of the population would gravitate towards Russia and not the EU? I do not think this is any indication of support for the policies of Milosevic or a return to violence and ethnic cleansing.

Serbia should strike a balance between the EU and Russia and continue to build bridges with both of these world super powers. To me it seems the election results confirm that the Serbian population itself feels this way. Keep in mind that leaning towards the EU and the West does not equate to Democracy. The fact that the Serbian population is so split is a very good indication that Democracy does in fact exist and is very strong. I am not a fan of the Radicals, but all this talk about being Democratic or not is really absurd, how can a valid and fair election be undemocratic?

Its clearly evident that those countries entering into the EU now will have only second class status without the same rights of movement and employment that those countries who joined early already have. In addition, I predict new additions will also have their right to vote in EU limited in an effort to make the EU more "easy" to govern and that it will start to resemble a collection of "Have's" and "Have-Not's". With both Serbia AND Albania being in the Have-Not club.

Right now is not the time to join the EU, who's future is uncertain at this time. We should focus on improving the economy and engaging in trade with the EU and visa relaxation. We should also strengthen our ties to Russia and use that as a balance to the EU. Serbia should take a middle course in dealings with other countries and continue to be involved in the Non-Aligned movement. This type of strategy will allow Serbia to play a similar role in Europe to the role that Tito played on the International Stage.

Regardless of the outcome of the status discussions of Kosovo, we should work towards developing religious tourism to our Holy Sites and Cultural Heritage. Changing the view of the Kosovar Albanians towards our Religious Monuments from one of a personal liability to that of an economic necessity will ensure the safety and survival of those areas which mean the most to us. The protection of our cultural and religious history is probably the most important issue for Serbia's future, and something that touches the heart of all Serbs the world over. Those who are poor and destitute have nothing to lose, those who possess high standards of living only want to maintain the status quo. It’s a real shame that the Kosovo Albanians so fear for their safety that they can not see the possible economic advantages in staying with Serbia. Albanians and Serbs share much more in common with one another then differences. A glance at the posts here at B92 clearly proves that we both react and think in a very similar fashion, we are nearly identical, like it or not. I predict someday that future generations will embrace that concept and live in peace in one country, whether that's a united EU or Serbia is merely a matter of conjecture and won't matter in a few hundred years.

Just please, I'm asking politely, don't blow up any more of our Churches right now. I'm sorry for your suffering, just please don't punish me, I didn't do anything to anyone. I just want to be able to visit my Churches and my religious sites in peace when it all calms down.

Thanks to everyone...

So Arben you said that Kosovo albanians will no longer be citizens of Serbia? Then if that is the case well they should turn in their Serbian passports and if so then they should deported back to Kosovo to get UNMIK or Special EU Passports correct Arben? If you are not a citizen then you should have Serbian passports is that correct?

Actually there is no problem. The situation is crystal clear. There was an open referendum where all citizens of Serbia could vote if Kosovo should be a part of Serbia or not. A big majority voted FOR the idea that Kosovo should be part of Serbia and not be independent. Period. The problem is only a mind-ghost of the Kosovo-Albanians who doesn't want to accept the legal outcome of the referendum.

Mr Serwer is PAYED by guess who; yes, you guessed it the US funded Institute of "PEACE." Yes, he who PAYS the piper always gets to call the tune.

He say that nothing has changed, but it all depends on how honest you want to be. The Serbs have long been falsely accused of being lawless. Serbia has had a democratic Government for over 6 years. They are abiding by the RULE OF LAW by obeying UN resolutions and refusing to disobey the expressed will of the people at a DEMOCRATICALLY HELD REFERENDUM, and yet this is not good enough for these self proclaimed role models of "PURITY AND VIRTUE."

He is right in saying that nothing has changed, and that is that this LAWLESS DICTATORIAL AMERICA AND IT'S EU PUPPET has not changed!

He wants the UN to make a decision on April fools day, and I guess he would like to fool as many people as he could. Perhaps, and maybe just perhaps the only one he will fool is himself and that EVIL EMPIRE AMERICA that he works for.

Russia will always support every just cause regardless of people's race or religion.

You are either with the International Community or against the International Community when it comes to the war on terorism.

just another funny guy.
Mr. Serwer, what you are trying is just purposeless. the pan-albanian idea ( not to call it fascism ) is already a fact.


reminds me of Mr.Polt who tried to tell us that Serbia and its southern province won´t enter the EU without a status-solution.
but what Mr.Polt did not explain how Cyprus could enter the EU although there is an unsolved matter too.
Mr. Serwer, Mr.Polt
empty words, just ...

empty words.

if there should be only a blink of violence coming from the Albanians.. NATO should hit them hard in order to make it clear that violence won´t pay off.
in such case they should remember that slogan of a supplier of sports apparel..

just do it.

What is less Pan-Albanian then creating a 2nd Albanian on Internationally recognised Serbian territory. Pandersing to this notion that different ethnic groups have an inalien right to create a sepetare nation within another. Does the American leadership no longer believe in a multicultural society? If so have they told their electorate that the foundations that built their nation have been eroded and that it is now a free for all and any ethnic group who are predominante in a region has a right to refuse to co-exist and call for independence.

eveything Serwer says is wrong and/ or propaganda. if i were interviewing him i would have asked him if sarajevo also had a problem?

he is dead wrong on russia. DEAD WRONG. it is unlikely that the PM of russia found it necessary to personnaly state what he stated only to be "bought off" 2 weeks later. what a slap in the face to russia. what disrespect?! it is this same attitude that created the russia you now see.

"as Serbia doesn’t want them [Albanians] for its citizens"

Has any Serbian politician ever actually said this?

what a slap in the face to russia. Remember beofre NATO bombing, russia said this will never happened and aslo assured milosheviq on this issue. Sure enough Mr. Clinton gave the order to start bombing, what a slap in the face. History will repeat itself again when it comes to russia.They know better than to piss off UNCLE SAM. Mr. Serwer is right regarding a speedy solution for KOSOVA.

jovan,
it is hard for anyone to accept your comment since it is mainly up to Serbia's nationalism if the Balkans had suffered deaths and destructions.
I would also ask Philip Davies where he had been for the last 20 years: Serbians politicians have clearly showed that they do not consider the K-Albanians as Serbian citizens: the exclusion of Albanians from voting the Serbian Constitution is an indisputable proof of that situation.

LOL, all of these think tank people who have never steped foot in the balkans can make all of these predictions and solutions to solve the problems. Why listen to them. NATO does not want to crack down on those who cause violence but in 2004 they did, do the albanians believe they would not do this no they did not and rioted anyway burned churches and cars and when KFOR crack down on them by putting in a curfew and it cause more harm to the already struggling economy will they do it again no they won't because again they will be on CNN and will be demonized yet again because some dumbasses choose to cause problems.

Kosovo Albanians were able to vote in elections from 1990 until 1999 but most (though not all) chose not to. The current situation in Kosovo means it is practically impossible for the Serbian authorities to keep accurate lists of the Albanian voters as there is no absolute way of knowing if they are genuine citizens or are from Albania or Macedonia. Several US states often wipe people from the electoral rolls when they consistantly fail to use their vote.

Again I assert something and someone says it is not true without actually directly disputing my assertion.

If Kosovo doesn't become independent and does become a proper autonomous province within Serbia as the Serbian government wants then the situation will be different and the electoral rolls would have to be harmonised.

Philip Davies, well said in your earlier comment and reposte to Massimo. Yet it would not surprise me if Massimo posted that same comment again in a month. I hope others are reading and understand what you have said so that maybe we can move on - at least that is true of the ruling leadership in Serbia.

I re-iterate the ethnic-Albanian leadership need to comme out of the 90's mentality and realise what the term negotiations are. It is in no-ones interest to not grasp the opportunity to move forward together - for the alternative will be as Blag has so often said be "messy". Win-win is the best solution and no--one with a rational argument can break up a nation just because one ethnic group predominate in a particular region. Serbia is not Yugoslavia and it's terrotory is not up for grabs so laike Balir said "conform to it".

The Presevo Albanians taking part in the elections on Sunday is a good example. They had also boycotted for years and now I think have one representative in the assembly.

Hey Serbs why the long faces.
You're getting what you want with Kosova independence, Albanian Kosovars will no longer be Serbian citizens!

This does not stop the indomitable Blag, self-proclaimed crack political and economic analyst for all of Serbdom! Maybe you should get a part-time job or something.

Princip, this is the 18th time that you have said 'conform to it'. If you dont have anything new to add dont waist your time telling the same old story; As for blag serbs are lucky to have someone like you! You are going to save the day for them mate, "with your perfect political story lines". Now just remember that the Albanians didn.t fight since 1913 up to 1999 just to be left under Serbian rule again, and they will go to the end to get their independence; Any other solution that Serbs and their Rusian friends will try to impose as they have done so far on Albanians will just bring more of what we had on the last 15 years!! A famous person in England said one time; 'What we learn from history is that We never learn from history'. thanks.

Davies,
When you make a statement that you expect us to believe, you should give a source of your information. Otherwise, your assertion is as questionable as its response!

arben,

no matter what you say i will not be dragged into commentary beneath me. these forums work best when there is mature, strong, and developed thinking (instead of the commentary you represent).

vigorous civil argument is the hallmark of civic maturity and not personal defamation of those who present strong arguments. however, i do realize that it is a common occurence among detractors to personally impugn those who we lack the capacity to argue with.

one should not be fearful or resentful of strong thinking by th eopposition... but rather look forward to it as it tends to refine our own arguments. i for one have developed sounder argumentation by listening to my albanian colleagues insead of closing my mind to what they have to say.

one part of this site is for the advancement of ideas by opposing camps... and not for the purposes you use it for.

Fhilip Davies wrote:

"as Serbia doesn’t want them [Albanians] for its citizens"
Has any Serbian politician ever actually said this?

I am not aware they have openly, but their actions exactly confirm Mr. Serwer's comment.

Arben,

Your last comment doesn't represent the best of Albanians. Please, refrain from the personal attacks!
Long live Kosova!
Alban Castro,

dona,

your threats of violence are BORING and put me to sleep.

basically you will do as you are told by the international community b/c you have no choice. nor will you become violent b/c you only harm yourselves.

no one cares about your prizren leagues or pan albanian independence movements (just as they do not care about serb patrimony).

this is about 3 things:

1. legalities
2. precedent
3. viability

everything else is irrelevant.

"election’s outcome has shown “nothing has changed” compared to the period before the vote." Serwer is exactly to the point: Serbia could not possibly change that fast. Most of your politicians belong to the same criminal, illusionist, Milosevic-like clique.

RE: Pan Albanian Argument

The fuel that sparked the Pan Albanian fire is when the US dropped troops to FYROM in 1995.
It continued when NATO bombed Serbia in 1999 with a Rambouiett agreement which reminded the Serbs of the ultimatum sent to them by the Austro-Hungarian empire when the Archduke Ferdinand was shot in 1914.

Pan-Albaniasm continues to grow with:

Illegal Albanians pouring through the Greek Border.

The Presevo Albanians in Serbia continuing to hinder the development of democracy in Serbia.

The growing populations of Albanians in Montenegro and the Republic of Macedonia who would not have inherited a bigger problem instead of staying with a strong federated Yugoslavia.

And of course Kosovo where the Serb Minority has been decimated by Albanian Extremists who continue to wipe out any traces of Serbian history and culture in the region.

Arben, you didn't state what piece of information you wanted me to source but I suspect it was the one about Albanian's being able to vote.

http://lamar.colostate.edu/~grjan/kosovohistory.html

"In the Yugoslav elections of December 1992 Albanian leadership in Kosovo advised Albanians not to vote and in large numbers they did not."

"It is likely that Milosevic could have been defeated if the Albanians in Kosovo had in fact voted."

Can you find a source that contradicts this and states that the Albanians of Kosovo were removed from the electoral roll in the period 1990-1999?

To concerned:
For those who ignore everything about “Serbia’s Democracy” and Serbian will to rule other nations.
1997 Registered Voters 7.225.860
1999 Registered Voters 6.396.606
Missing 829.254 Voters
Where they are? Missing? Where?...
What about 400.000 Serbian Gypsies without ID-s????

The "high" turnout for supporters of the Radicals simply is an expression of frustration towards the Policies of the West and how they treat Serbia. The West certainly made it seem at the time that if Serbia only arrested Milosevic and sent him to the Hague that relations would return to normal. The West also made promises in Resolution 1244 at the UN which they clearly did not honor. Is it any wonder that a significant portion of the population would gravitate towards Russia and not the EU? I do not think this is any indication of support for the policies of Milosevic or a return to violence and ethnic cleansing.

Serbia should strike a balance between the EU and Russia and continue to build bridges with both of these world super powers. To me it seems the election results confirm that the Serbian population itself feels this way. Keep in mind that leaning towards the EU and the West does not equate to Democracy. The fact that the Serbian population is so split is a very good indication that Democracy does in fact exist and is very strong. I am not a fan of the Radicals, but all this talk about being Democratic or not is really absurd, how can a valid and fair election be undemocratic?

Its clearly evident that those countries entering into the EU now will have only second class status without the same rights of movement and employment that those countries who joined early already have. In addition, I predict new additions will also have their right to vote in EU limited in an effort to make the EU more "easy" to govern and that it will start to resemble a collection of "Have's" and "Have-Not's". With both Serbia AND Albania being in the Have-Not club.

Right now is not the time to join the EU, who's future is uncertain at this time. We should focus on improving the economy and engaging in trade with the EU and visa relaxation. We should also strengthen our ties to Russia and use that as a balance to the EU. Serbia should take a middle course in dealings with other countries and continue to be involved in the Non-Aligned movement. This type of strategy will allow Serbia to play a similar role in Europe to the role that Tito played on the International Stage.

Regardless of the outcome of the status discussions of Kosovo, we should work towards developing religious tourism to our Holy Sites and Cultural Heritage. Changing the view of the Kosovar Albanians towards our Religious Monuments from one of a personal liability to that of an economic necessity will ensure the safety and survival of those areas which mean the most to us. The protection of our cultural and religious history is probably the most important issue for Serbia's future, and something that touches the heart of all Serbs the world over. Those who are poor and destitute have nothing to lose, those who possess high standards of living only want to maintain the status quo. It’s a real shame that the Kosovo Albanians so fear for their safety that they can not see the possible economic advantages in staying with Serbia. Albanians and Serbs share much more in common with one another then differences. A glance at the posts here at B92 clearly proves that we both react and think in a very similar fashion, we are nearly identical, like it or not. I predict someday that future generations will embrace that concept and live in peace in one country, whether that's a united EU or Serbia is merely a matter of conjecture and won't matter in a few hundred years.

Just please, I'm asking politely, don't blow up any more of our Churches right now. I'm sorry for your suffering, just please don't punish me, I didn't do anything to anyone. I just want to be able to visit my Churches and my religious sites in peace when it all calms down.

Thanks to everyone...

So Arben you said that Kosovo albanians will no longer be citizens of Serbia? Then if that is the case well they should turn in their Serbian passports and if so then they should deported back to Kosovo to get UNMIK or Special EU Passports correct Arben? If you are not a citizen then you should have Serbian passports is that correct?

Actually there is no problem. The situation is crystal clear. There was an open referendum where all citizens of Serbia could vote if Kosovo should be a part of Serbia or not. A big majority voted FOR the idea that Kosovo should be part of Serbia and not be independent. Period. The problem is only a mind-ghost of the Kosovo-Albanians who doesn't want to accept the legal outcome of the referendum.

Mr Serwer is PAYED by guess who; yes, you guessed it the US funded Institute of "PEACE." Yes, he who PAYS the piper always gets to call the tune.

He say that nothing has changed, but it all depends on how honest you want to be. The Serbs have long been falsely accused of being lawless. Serbia has had a democratic Government for over 6 years. They are abiding by the RULE OF LAW by obeying UN resolutions and refusing to disobey the expressed will of the people at a DEMOCRATICALLY HELD REFERENDUM, and yet this is not good enough for these self proclaimed role models of "PURITY AND VIRTUE."

He is right in saying that nothing has changed, and that is that this LAWLESS DICTATORIAL AMERICA AND IT'S EU PUPPET has not changed!

He wants the UN to make a decision on April fools day, and I guess he would like to fool as many people as he could. Perhaps, and maybe just perhaps the only one he will fool is himself and that EVIL EMPIRE AMERICA that he works for.

Russia will always support every just cause regardless of people's race or religion.

You are either with the International Community or against the International Community when it comes to the war on terorism.