SDSM leader Zoran Zaev has defended <a href="http://www.b92.net/eng/news/region.php?yyyy=2017&mm=02&dd=27&nav_id=100619" class="text-link" target= "_blank">the Tirana Platform</a> of ethnic Albanian parties in Macedonia to form a government with his party.
Some people speak about atrocities done by serb side. I wonder if they have proof for that. I can tell you about actocities by Albo side:
1. Ottoman empire(centuries of Albanian terror), escpecially period of 1878-1912
2. ww1-"March of death" 1915 through Albania (Albanians attacks on one allied army taking side with Austrians)
3. Ww2-Albanian fascist genocide on Kosovo and Metohija 10 000 dead and 100 000 banished Serbs
4. Albanian communist terror 1945-1990 (rape, murder, destruction of monasteries) in Kosovo and Metohija and Serbs in Albania
5. 1990s terrorist "kla" in Kosovo and Metohia, Albanian war criminals in Croatia and Bosnia (rahim Ademi ect.)
6. 1998- Albanian terror on Serbs in Kosovo and Metohija
Not to mention what Serbs who live in Albania have suffered in so many centuries
Ari,
Who are you trying to fool! The World watched as the Serb army limped out of Kosova. They were a broken military force, begging for food and water. I was there and had to pity the poor disheartened Serb troops.
(US Army Veteran,
Who are you kidding! You were talking about 100's of tanks destroyed and now everyone knows(except you) that you were outsmarted by Serbs. You were shooting models of tanks. Kosovo and Metohija will be taken back. You are evil as Nazi Germany was.
The country has already destroyed itself. When they allowed Gruevski to erect cheap Italian statues of Hellenic figures the place was doomed. we said nothing. He spent 680 million euros of our money falsifying a history. Anything that happens to Macedonia now is the fault of the Antiquated population who have been brainwashed and Gruevski. I wonder what Gruev and Delchev would have made of this mess. The diaspora criminals in Australia, USA and Canada are also to blame through their lack of education and ultra nationalism. They left here with a suitcase of old clothes and now fancy themselves as history professors. Let the Albanians have it. your greed for hellenic history and digging for something older that wasn't there has cost you your country. Admire Gruevski's statues and read your false encyclopedias because that's all that is left.
“Goce Delchev and Dame Gruev used to pass Death Sentences to those who claimed the blood of Alexander runs in us“. You made Greater Albania possible by your actions. Don't blame Albania. Don't blame the Greeks. Don't blame Zaev. Don't blame Georgievski. Blame yourselves. You fly a flag with a Hellenic symbol (the star of Vergina). Shame on you. Our flag is a gold lion on a red background not some Hellenistic symbol. You are all embarrassing.
That is the source of certain people's hate in the Balkans towards Serbs. Not some imaginary genocides. Serbs resist, others submit. Sloboda ili smrt!!!
(Ari Gold, 6 March 2017 16:54)
Ari,
Who are you trying to fool! The World watched as the Serb army limped out of Kosova. They were a broken military force, begging for food and water. I was there and had to pity the poor disheartened Serb troops.
I have no comment on this article, however I do want to point out the hatred remarks that are written by Albanian supporters, this hate for the Macedonians and the Serbs is well known, one needs to ask the question why is that, when you have Albanians living, contributing and enjoying life in both of these countries with all the rights as a citizen, but that's not enough they want more and more, sorry to say but blood will shed on both sides for the benefit of few politicians. Peace!
Rote seems to hold a PhD in tabloidism. He passes junk knowledge collected at stormfront.com as historical provable facts. An internet junkie using Internet "reasonable" trolling writing style. Rote, tie a rock and find a river. Well don't worry about a rock, your bs junk knowledge is heavy enough. "Y-genome"... I wonder how many minutes have you spent in a lab doing genetic research before you swing your "scientific" knowledge around. Clown.
Most of the balkans people if not all of Europe are of Rus/Slavic origin?
*** 90% of the Europeans are genetic Slavs that inhabited this peninsula in 14-th century. You can see it in their happlogroups where R1b is a proven descendant from R1a.
Albanians who mind you before Shqiptar were known and called themselves Arber, living In Arberia are some of the oldest people living on Europe speaking one of the oldest Indo-European languages
*** I have no phobias because I grew up in an international atmosphere and I conduct no vendetta against the Shqiptars. I only want our lands back while my history tours are just a tool to unmask your theories. I don't mind you calling yourself Albanian or Illyrian until it becomes a tool of racket. I believe that the most natural name of yours is the Shqiptars but not Whites, Birds, Illyrians and now Arbers ...
Joni
You brought war in Ukraine and you are trying to bring it in Balkan just for your interest.
*** Ukraine is the basic land of the Rus civilization - same as Kosovo for the Serbs. That's why we will soon return our lands in south-west Rus and help you to make peace with the Serbs. The way we can do it ... Kosovo must be divided between you two I think. Pristina's provisional government should stop to exist and Albania should openly tell what it claims in Serbia, Montenegro and Macedonia. Only on paper those things are much easier than in real life.
People calm down. All sides commit atrocities in war time that's fact, anyone that thinks they can be innocent in war is dillusional. Overall Albanians are the most violent bunch at the individual level, eg besa, gangs, drugs and nationalism. Having said that I visit mkd often, I can attest that times are changing, Albanian are becoming very western in culture, kids with mobiles, funny hair, drinking delaying family. I went to Struga last summer, people were very liberal looking. Anyway whatever the outcome I reckon both sides shouldn't become to western where immorality rules and materlialism. Culturally I think the Balkanites have the most beautiful culture in the world. Politics asides we are all the same, we should worry about our disappearing youth. All the Balkans educated are leaving for the west in the their droves.. only the west wins with our stupidity..
Genti : You can't win a war against NATO with Russian-made airplanes.
You sounded rather reasonable at least in theory but in the end you called 30 year old Soviet planes Russian ones. It's a big mistake because the even Pentagon admitts that our planes are the best for the time being. And so are our nuclear arms, our submarines, missiles and most of our conventual arms. The US is ahead in electronics and some other ammunition. Because until resent they believed that they have won in the cold war. Now it's clear that the haven't. So the Macedonians are not that desperate that you describe. Yet I agree that some compromise must be found.
Just stop, just stop ok. Everything you say it's wrong. Serbs and ilyrian have nothing together. We are not white hordes you are mistaking or purposely spreading propaganda . Slavic false history did not work then , and it won't work now . We are Shqiptar ... and our religion it's "Shqiptara" And rote don't tell us about hordes , milets, and all that garbage, enough is enough
(Ilyrian, 6 March 2017 17:21)
I take it rather easy when you use our Albanian trademark and even when you call yourself Illyrian (Slavs) because you have our markers in your happlogroup. And in a great degree I believe that you came to the Balkans during the so called Migration Periof of 4-6 (in fact in 14-16) centuries. Guess the answer can be found in your Dagestan Y-DNA.
But even if I stop unmasking your false theories you can do nothing about the things that are well documented. Like the Great Horde called in Europe Mongolian and Roman. The official name was same as of the Ottoman Porta - ВЕЛИКОЕ ГОСУДАРСТВО while here it was called also ВСЯ РУСЬ or ВСЯ РОСЬ.
Ottomans were your history so someone have to tell you about the milliets too. Your nation was composed out of 3 different Ottoman nations when the Greeks broke away. Because you had to divide lands and deside if you were Greeks or not ... Before 19 century there simply was no need in clearifying the issue because everything was routine. And of course we both know that you are not an Illyrian.
J: Also to the nasty people comment: There are bodies of Albanian children burried in mass graves in Serbia under multistorey buildings.
Trust me that time will come when they will begin to believe in their own fakes. This is how the history is made. Unfortunately most people are like cattle ... And they fear to know the truth prefering to live in the mist of their dogmas.
Nations began to form in 17-20 centuries. Before that there was no need in nations in the current meaning. There were only 4 nations (milliets) in the Great Porta. It is well documented wether you like it or not. Because the Ottomans were the only part of the Great Horde that has never been occupied. That's why you all survived and that's why your problems started as soon as you became formally free with permanent discriminations and bloodsheds. Russia was part of Europe and very often played negative role too. Only the last Tsars became Rus people.
Shqiptars were part of 3 different milliets out of 4 and those were Milliet-i Muslim, Milliet-i Rum and Milliet-i Catholic. The only milliet where you weren't present was Milliet-i Ladino i.e. nation of the Jews. And the only thing that cemented your ancestors was the language they spoke. Regardless of their belief all 3 groups spoke dialects of the same language. They spoke plain and clear for one another so they called themselves PLAIN SPEAKING i.e. SHQIPs. As I read it happened in late 18-th century.
Later when the Oldenburgs seized Greece they wrote history of the never existed Greece and of the neighboring peoples. It was then that the glorious name of the Rus Albanians (Belie) was sticked to you. So you've got two names. One your own and the other from the Oldenburgs. But no one knows what was your name before 1780. Illyrians won't help you with self identification as they were Slavs.
Also keep in mind that the ВЕЛИКОЕ ГОСУДАРСТВО called in the West as Roman or Mongolian or Ottoman Empire was the only state in the world. And it was a military state where civil administrations were submitted to the Great Horde always headed by the Great Khan (kniaz, kogan, cohen,cal, col, cam, chamme ...) All peoples of mainland had to pay TAGMA tax when every 10th boy was drafted to the Horde for 25 years. It's very important to keep it in your mind if you care other Serbs that were dispersed all over the world. Like other horde's men they were militaries. So they were sent to various parts of the world and very often stayed there forever. After 25 years they could not return to their villages where their old friends were granfathers already. Besides the Cossacks were forbidden to work and to contact the occupied peoples. So it was impossible for many of them to return to civil life. That's why monasteries were built for the cossacks. Those were castles that also defended local peoples during wars and of course churches were built inside. Anyways greater part of the Serbs do not live in Serbia or even Russia. Many from the destroed Golden Horde stayed in Asia building Tibet country that included western China, Thailand, Burma, Viet Nam, Laos, Cam Puchea. Those were Early Christian Serbs who became known as Buddists, Induists, Krishnaits and Confitsians. Other Serbs belonged to the White/Albanian Horde and they assimilated in Western Europe and America.
Nobody would force Macedonian children throughout Macedonia to learn Albanian in school, although in my opinion they should all learn both of their country's main languages. In most civilized countries that would be a no-brainer, this fuss only happens with stupid Balkans people.
Macedonians have even more reasons to learn Albanian, because many of them have Illyrian blood and claim ancient ancestry. About 10%-15% of the population in Macedonia used to call themselves Albanian Orthodox only one or two generations ago, and they still understand the language. You Sotir, are probably not an Ilievski, but an Ilievic, most likely a Serbian refugee who probably doesn't even call himself Macedonian, but a Slav.
Anyways, Sotir, I hope you realize that Albanians are reaching out and offering to create an inclusive country with you Slavic-speakers. The Albanian platform did not ask to create an Albanian Republic, like RS in Bosnia. They could ask that, you know? And why wouldn't the West give it to them if it has already been done in Bosnia?
If you want war and division, go ahead, but you know Albanians are not afraid of that. You will be fueling the more radical groups and you will probably lose much more than just your half of the country. You can't win a war against NATO with Russian-made airplanes.
The Serbs army killed a lot of Albanian civilians in Macedonia. Even Trotsky wrote about it and he saw these crimes first hand. This is the truth and Zaev is right.
Second, I don't get how getting Albanian services in government institutions forces Macedonian kids to learn Albanian. It's like saying a lion ate a gazelle in Africa today and that's why I'm lactose intolerant. One would have to be a complete idiot to even entertain the idea that one brings the other. Having two official languages does not mean you're forced to learn both.
Also to the nasty people comment: There are bodies of Albanian children burried in mass graves in Serbia under multistorey buildings. Before you say that to anyone of any ethnicity, take a second ,wait and remember that Albanian children are rotting in mass graves under some apartment building in Serbia. If you still feel superior enough to make the "nasty" people claim, then you could quite easily pass as one of the scum of the earth and psychopaths that killed these children and threw them in mass graves and tried to hide the crime.
a massage for so-called macedonians: Don't act tough,and don't act stupid. Take a look at serbia, "aka Yugoslavia" bigger ,stronger, and now look at them. So-called macedonians are minority there , they just make noise rite now. Later will be to late if they act stupid for gruefskis personal interest. ✌
Serbs are genetic Albanians and you must be proud of it like I do. Even Luzhitski Serbs that still live in Germany in fact are Albanians i.e. Whites = Aryans = Romans. People of the n-western regions of Rus were called Sjabri (Сябры) and in Byelorus they still call themselves so. Albania (White Rus) included Poland, Baltic states, Prussia, Byelorussia, Veliki Novgorod, Vladimir, Kostroma, Kolomna ect. In late 12 century the Albanian Sjabri under Georgy Danilovic conquered other Slavic peoples and in 1318-1325 seized Balkans and Central Europe. But then St. George (Gengis Khan) was poisoned and his younger brother Ivan (Bati Khan = Vatican) finished the job on the British Islands. Because the White Horde was the main whole of the Great Horde was called White aka Albanians, Beli, Bali, Balts, Belts, Belgi, Ak ect. So Serbs were Albanians from the very beginng while many peoples (Hungars, Caucasians ect) that joined the Horde were also called Albanians or Whites. Word itself came from Arabian language thanks to the Rus Mamelukes. White in Arabian is almost same as in Serbian = Abel where suffix A means nothing. So we have A-bel as white. In old writing it was written as BL but in Europe some people could read it as Arabian LB as Slavic BL. Mamelukes fought very often in Europe in 15-16 centuries so they brought the word and gave names to many toponymals like Elbrus (Elb Rus), Laba (Elba) ect.
All this could have been avoided had the government not pursued irredentist antiquisation policies. Had they changed their name to Slavomacedonia it would have stopped hostilities with Greece. Had they not erected cheap Italian reproduction statues trying to falsify history they would not have offended Greece. their naming of their airport. their naming of the highways. their distorted curriculum imposed on their children at school. all embraced a link to a Greek historical figures. They brainwashed their society.
They offended the Bulgarians by claiming their historical figures like Dame Gruev, Gotse Dalchev and Hristo Tatachev who were Bulgarian. they offended Albanians by making them feel marginalized and treating them like second class citizens. Instead of learning from Kosovo and trying to embrace a policy of multiculturalism and integration they practiced segregation and intolerance.
I have a message for all these Albanian computer Rambos. Do your mother a favor. Take off your house coat and your pajamas, get a shave, put a little bit of antiperspirant deodorant, put on some nice clothes and go get a job. Every day you stay up late at night and sleep all day. Get a job, get married and stop playing "political scientist" when you are clueless about the real world and getting old. Enough with video games and bullshit, get a job or get out of the basement and out of the house. Your parents can't take your crap any longer. OK, now Git going out there and don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.
First this Soros-bot lies when he says the Albanian platform came out before the election. That is a provable lie, it came out after the election. If it had come out before the election he would have zero support from the Macedonian public, since as we have discovered recently Zaeviqi would force Macedonian children throughout Macedonia to learn Albanian in school from grade two onward. The lie is also evident when he says the platform was crafted in Macedonia. If that is so why would Macedonian Albanians have any need to travel to Tirana for consultations with Edi Rama when they could easily do that in Macedonia. It is not as if they are not allowed to do so in Macedonia. This man, and I use that term very loosely, needs to be prosecuted for treason for all the harm he has done to Macedonia and for inter-ethnic relations in the country to say nothing of harm done further afield.
Just stop, just stop ok. Everything you say it's wrong. Serbs and ilyrian have nothing together. We are not white hordes you are mistaking or purposely spreading propaganda . Slavic false history did not work then , and it won't work now . We are Shqiptar ... and our religion it's "Shqiptara" And rote don't tell us about hordes , milets, and all that garbage, enough is enough
Albanians a yong nation? Milet it's a Turkish word, what does that have to do with Albanians? Everybody in the Balkans admitted that we were there first , including serbs. So what are you talking about ?
I would be happy if you didn't confuse serbs and albanians as one and the same. We are not the same. Never were never will be. We are from this planet, albanians from planet Illyria in the Degeba system.
Shqiptar comes from 'plain speaking'and we are a new nation? Most of the balkans people if not all of Europe are of Rus/Slavic origin? You are bugging my friend, dont blindly believe anything you read and if you wanna present yourself as an educated and well read person read a few versions of history and then come out with your own conclusions.
Though I do agree that nation states do not date back too long ago and I know that it hurts you and mostly xenophobic serbs to admit it but Albanians who mind you before Shqiptar were known and called themselves Arber, living In Arberia are some of the oldest people living on Europe speaking one of the oldest Indo-European languages and have lived in that part of the world and will continue to do so for centuries so suck it up!
The Serbian Army has dedicated the last century to liberating the Balkans from foreign occupiers. From the Turks, to Austro-Hungary, to Nazi Germany all the way to NATO. Serbs fight the occupiers, others become their faithful servants in exchange for scraps and pieces of Serbia's territory. The Serbian Army liberated FYROM twice in the last century and has relentlessly fought the good fight while others choose servitude and collaboration.
That is the source of certain people's hate in the Balkans towards Serbs. Not some imaginary genocides. Serbs resist, others submit. Sloboda ili smrt!!!
Continue - rote
You are doing this! If you are 1 onefold anti – Albanian we will be 100-fold. And soon or latter you will be kicked out of Europe. You are not peaceful nation! You brought war in Ukraine and you are trying to bring it in Balkan just for your interest.
And no rote keep it in your mind we don’t FEAR for the only reason that there do not exist no one of our neighbors that can claim a single territory over Albania, instead they fear, they fear because they stole our territories with our people in, and this is well documented in WWI.
The today Kosovo belong to us, Serbia already take a large part of Kosovo. If you will check, you will see that Kosovo had a large territory which is part of today Serbia. Part of Kosovo was given to Montenegro and Macedonia.
@ rote
Our history is not based on what you think rote.
The problem can be hidden rote, but it still rest there in sleep until he explode. You helped Serbia in WWI create this mess in Balkan and you still are helping one sided not because it is the right think to do, but just because it convenient to Russia.
Russia is trying to enlarge its own position in disadvantage of Albanian nation. Albanians were forced to be Serbian, Montenegrin, Macedonians, Greeks – and when we ask to be what we are they get angry. Or better say they fear!. A consolidated nation don't fear nothing. Our language, our symbols, our flag is always a provocation for our neighbors. A paranoia, that is their problem not ours. Well we will fight for our rights.
So we a simple and small nation were able to steal lands from Greece, Serbia, Macedonia which are the sixfold bigger than us ? Albanians today live in large in Greece, Fyrom, Montenegro, Serbia, Kosovo, Albania and you tell that we stole “their” lands?
You did a CRIME on Albanian nation and you are still supporting it. It is a shame for Russia.
All the Europe know what you did against Albanian nation for this are supporting us. Russia is the only who need conflict in Balkan no one else.
Even if Albanians kill neighboring slavs for the next 100 years it wont be as much as the atrocities commited by the slavs against Albanians until now. read what happened when you slavs moved in balkans, you murdered, burned, occupied. Those people were Illyrians. Albanians lands are chopped in 6 countries ...
(Kimi, 6 March)
1. Where it was written that the Slavic people of the Illyrians and you had something in common? I do not exclude it although because of thr 15-20% of the Slavic blood that you have. But please don't go collective crazy or start speaking Slavic.
2. Shqiptars as I believe are a young nation composed of the 3 milliets (nations) of the Ottomans - Milliet-i Rum, Milliet-i Muslim and Milliet-i Catholic. Language was the only thing that cemented you and that's why you call yourself the Shqiptars i.e. "plain (clear) speaking".
3. In 15 century greater part of the peoples of the Balkans were killed because of the epidemy. The Great Horde killed all including Horde's own troops deployed in southern Europe. Then the lands were inhabited by new people from the Horde. In the Russian history it is called РАЗДАЧА НОВГОРОДСКИХ ЗЕМЕЛЬ БОЯРАМ ...
4. So most likely these part of the Serbs and the Shqiptars came to the Balkans together inside the White/Albanian/Mongol/Roman Horde. It was the only empire in the history and there were no nations in it. "Us and them" (the Rjurikovici and the rest) was the formula of the world.
Part of the Albanian population under guide from the Italian fascists formed a division calling it Ballistet Combatr. From 1941-45 this fraction fought on the side of the Italian fascists who in turn promised them independence under Italian and German control.
So the admirable Yugoslav partitions who together with the World thought Nazi Occupation are to be charged with genocide by the Albanians Nationalists of today
In other words, your grandfathers who fought against the Italian/German/Albanian fascists would be seen as the genocidal aggressors, and not people who defended their homes and land.
@bulgarofohrid.
Even if Albanians kill neighboring slavs for the next 100 years it wont be as much as the atrocities commited by the slavs against Albanians until now. read what happened when you slavs moved in balkans, you murdered, burned, occupied. Those people were Illyrians. Albanians lands are chopped in 6 countries in you have the guts to tell be Albanians are violent. You peace of shit dont even mention Mother Theresa in your modern architecture in Shkup, and she is an Albanian of Macedonia. How fucked up do you have to be. Your new nationality is not helping you. Albanians will get what is theirs, cuz all they want is theirs. We want it want it peacefully, but you slavs want to kill children.
Whats absurd is that the Platorm does not note the appaling atrocities commited by Albanian bandits/Ballisti during ottoman occupation and WWII.
Couple of nice Albanians lads during WWII came by on the road from ohrid resen near my mums village, they asked a local farmer working the field wheres Resen, the farmer gave them instructions and the they shot the farmer. Anyway to cut a long story short, near the end of the war the brothers of the farmer found those nice lads i Tetovo and handed out the just punishment.
Albanians are a violent bunch inherintly
(Bulgar of Ohrid, 6 March 2017 11:04) # Commen
Albanians are most famous in Europe for killing their own ,in BLOOD FUEDS ,killing rival families male children ,for pay back.What do you think they will do to other races of people ?!?!
Nasty people ))))
Whats absurd is that the Platorm does not note the appaling atrocities commited by Albanian bandits/Ballisti during ottoman occupation and WWII.
Couple of nice Albanians lads during WWII came by on the road from ohrid resen near my mums village, they asked a local farmer working the field wheres Resen, the farmer gave them instructions and the they shot the farmer. Anyway to cut a long story short, near the end of the war the brothers of the farmer found those nice lads i Tetovo and handed out the just punishment.
This Zoran Zaev is definitely a man that will truly take Macedonian into the correct direction tand to a better future, for all of Macedonias citizens!
Why not acknowledge the many many Serbian acts of aggression and genocide which were aimed against the Albanian nation? I am glad that many in the Balkans are coming out with the truths about what happened in the past thru-out history, as it is a main ingredient to bring reconciliation!!!
This Zoran Zaev is definitely a man that will truly take Macedonian into the correct direction tand to a better future, for all of Macedonias citizens!
Why not acknowledge the many many Serbian acts of aggression and genocide which were aimed against the Albanian nation? I am glad that many in the Balkans are coming out with the truths about what happened in the past thru-out history, as it is a main ingredient to bring reconciliation!!!
Whats absurd is that the Platorm does not note the appaling atrocities commited by Albanian bandits/Ballisti during ottoman occupation and WWII.
Couple of nice Albanians lads during WWII came by on the road from ohrid resen near my mums village, they asked a local farmer working the field wheres Resen, the farmer gave them instructions and the they shot the farmer. Anyway to cut a long story short, near the end of the war the brothers of the farmer found those nice lads i Tetovo and handed out the just punishment.
@bulgarofohrid.
Even if Albanians kill neighboring slavs for the next 100 years it wont be as much as the atrocities commited by the slavs against Albanians until now. read what happened when you slavs moved in balkans, you murdered, burned, occupied. Those people were Illyrians. Albanians lands are chopped in 6 countries in you have the guts to tell be Albanians are violent. You peace of shit dont even mention Mother Theresa in your modern architecture in Shkup, and she is an Albanian of Macedonia. How fucked up do you have to be. Your new nationality is not helping you. Albanians will get what is theirs, cuz all they want is theirs. We want it want it peacefully, but you slavs want to kill children.
The Serbian Army has dedicated the last century to liberating the Balkans from foreign occupiers. From the Turks, to Austro-Hungary, to Nazi Germany all the way to NATO. Serbs fight the occupiers, others become their faithful servants in exchange for scraps and pieces of Serbia's territory. The Serbian Army liberated FYROM twice in the last century and has relentlessly fought the good fight while others choose servitude and collaboration.
That is the source of certain people's hate in the Balkans towards Serbs. Not some imaginary genocides. Serbs resist, others submit. Sloboda ili smrt!!!
Whats absurd is that the Platorm does not note the appaling atrocities commited by Albanian bandits/Ballisti during ottoman occupation and WWII.
Couple of nice Albanians lads during WWII came by on the road from ohrid resen near my mums village, they asked a local farmer working the field wheres Resen, the farmer gave them instructions and the they shot the farmer. Anyway to cut a long story short, near the end of the war the brothers of the farmer found those nice lads i Tetovo and handed out the just punishment.
Albanians are a violent bunch inherintly
(Bulgar of Ohrid, 6 March 2017 11:04) # Commen
Albanians are most famous in Europe for killing their own ,in BLOOD FUEDS ,killing rival families male children ,for pay back.What do you think they will do to other races of people ?!?!
Nasty people ))))
First this Soros-bot lies when he says the Albanian platform came out before the election. That is a provable lie, it came out after the election. If it had come out before the election he would have zero support from the Macedonian public, since as we have discovered recently Zaeviqi would force Macedonian children throughout Macedonia to learn Albanian in school from grade two onward. The lie is also evident when he says the platform was crafted in Macedonia. If that is so why would Macedonian Albanians have any need to travel to Tirana for consultations with Edi Rama when they could easily do that in Macedonia. It is not as if they are not allowed to do so in Macedonia. This man, and I use that term very loosely, needs to be prosecuted for treason for all the harm he has done to Macedonia and for inter-ethnic relations in the country to say nothing of harm done further afield.
Just stop, just stop ok. Everything you say it's wrong. Serbs and ilyrian have nothing together. We are not white hordes you are mistaking or purposely spreading propaganda . Slavic false history did not work then , and it won't work now . We are Shqiptar ... and our religion it's "Shqiptara" And rote don't tell us about hordes , milets, and all that garbage, enough is enough
I have a message for all these Albanian computer Rambos. Do your mother a favor. Take off your house coat and your pajamas, get a shave, put a little bit of antiperspirant deodorant, put on some nice clothes and go get a job. Every day you stay up late at night and sleep all day. Get a job, get married and stop playing "political scientist" when you are clueless about the real world and getting old. Enough with video games and bullshit, get a job or get out of the basement and out of the house. Your parents can't take your crap any longer. OK, now Git going out there and don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.
@ rote
Our history is not based on what you think rote.
The problem can be hidden rote, but it still rest there in sleep until he explode. You helped Serbia in WWI create this mess in Balkan and you still are helping one sided not because it is the right think to do, but just because it convenient to Russia.
Russia is trying to enlarge its own position in disadvantage of Albanian nation. Albanians were forced to be Serbian, Montenegrin, Macedonians, Greeks – and when we ask to be what we are they get angry. Or better say they fear!. A consolidated nation don't fear nothing. Our language, our symbols, our flag is always a provocation for our neighbors. A paranoia, that is their problem not ours. Well we will fight for our rights.
So we a simple and small nation were able to steal lands from Greece, Serbia, Macedonia which are the sixfold bigger than us ? Albanians today live in large in Greece, Fyrom, Montenegro, Serbia, Kosovo, Albania and you tell that we stole “their” lands?
You did a CRIME on Albanian nation and you are still supporting it. It is a shame for Russia.
All the Europe know what you did against Albanian nation for this are supporting us. Russia is the only who need conflict in Balkan no one else.
Continue - rote
You are doing this! If you are 1 onefold anti – Albanian we will be 100-fold. And soon or latter you will be kicked out of Europe. You are not peaceful nation! You brought war in Ukraine and you are trying to bring it in Balkan just for your interest.
And no rote keep it in your mind we don’t FEAR for the only reason that there do not exist no one of our neighbors that can claim a single territory over Albania, instead they fear, they fear because they stole our territories with our people in, and this is well documented in WWI.
The today Kosovo belong to us, Serbia already take a large part of Kosovo. If you will check, you will see that Kosovo had a large territory which is part of today Serbia. Part of Kosovo was given to Montenegro and Macedonia.
Shqiptar comes from 'plain speaking'and we are a new nation? Most of the balkans people if not all of Europe are of Rus/Slavic origin? You are bugging my friend, dont blindly believe anything you read and if you wanna present yourself as an educated and well read person read a few versions of history and then come out with your own conclusions.
Though I do agree that nation states do not date back too long ago and I know that it hurts you and mostly xenophobic serbs to admit it but Albanians who mind you before Shqiptar were known and called themselves Arber, living In Arberia are some of the oldest people living on Europe speaking one of the oldest Indo-European languages and have lived in that part of the world and will continue to do so for centuries so suck it up!
I would be happy if you didn't confuse serbs and albanians as one and the same. We are not the same. Never were never will be. We are from this planet, albanians from planet Illyria in the Degeba system.
Albanians a yong nation? Milet it's a Turkish word, what does that have to do with Albanians? Everybody in the Balkans admitted that we were there first , including serbs. So what are you talking about ?
Rote seems to hold a PhD in tabloidism. He passes junk knowledge collected at stormfront.com as historical provable facts. An internet junkie using Internet "reasonable" trolling writing style. Rote, tie a rock and find a river. Well don't worry about a rock, your bs junk knowledge is heavy enough. "Y-genome"... I wonder how many minutes have you spent in a lab doing genetic research before you swing your "scientific" knowledge around. Clown.
All this could have been avoided had the government not pursued irredentist antiquisation policies. Had they changed their name to Slavomacedonia it would have stopped hostilities with Greece. Had they not erected cheap Italian reproduction statues trying to falsify history they would not have offended Greece. their naming of their airport. their naming of the highways. their distorted curriculum imposed on their children at school. all embraced a link to a Greek historical figures. They brainwashed their society.
They offended the Bulgarians by claiming their historical figures like Dame Gruev, Gotse Dalchev and Hristo Tatachev who were Bulgarian. they offended Albanians by making them feel marginalized and treating them like second class citizens. Instead of learning from Kosovo and trying to embrace a policy of multiculturalism and integration they practiced segregation and intolerance.
a massage for so-called macedonians: Don't act tough,and don't act stupid. Take a look at serbia, "aka Yugoslavia" bigger ,stronger, and now look at them. So-called macedonians are minority there , they just make noise rite now. Later will be to late if they act stupid for gruefskis personal interest. ✌
The Serbs army killed a lot of Albanian civilians in Macedonia. Even Trotsky wrote about it and he saw these crimes first hand. This is the truth and Zaev is right.
Second, I don't get how getting Albanian services in government institutions forces Macedonian kids to learn Albanian. It's like saying a lion ate a gazelle in Africa today and that's why I'm lactose intolerant. One would have to be a complete idiot to even entertain the idea that one brings the other. Having two official languages does not mean you're forced to learn both.
Also to the nasty people comment: There are bodies of Albanian children burried in mass graves in Serbia under multistorey buildings. Before you say that to anyone of any ethnicity, take a second ,wait and remember that Albanian children are rotting in mass graves under some apartment building in Serbia. If you still feel superior enough to make the "nasty" people claim, then you could quite easily pass as one of the scum of the earth and psychopaths that killed these children and threw them in mass graves and tried to hide the crime.
Even if Albanians kill neighboring slavs for the next 100 years it wont be as much as the atrocities commited by the slavs against Albanians until now. read what happened when you slavs moved in balkans, you murdered, burned, occupied. Those people were Illyrians. Albanians lands are chopped in 6 countries ...
(Kimi, 6 March)
1. Where it was written that the Slavic people of the Illyrians and you had something in common? I do not exclude it although because of thr 15-20% of the Slavic blood that you have. But please don't go collective crazy or start speaking Slavic.
2. Shqiptars as I believe are a young nation composed of the 3 milliets (nations) of the Ottomans - Milliet-i Rum, Milliet-i Muslim and Milliet-i Catholic. Language was the only thing that cemented you and that's why you call yourself the Shqiptars i.e. "plain (clear) speaking".
3. In 15 century greater part of the peoples of the Balkans were killed because of the epidemy. The Great Horde killed all including Horde's own troops deployed in southern Europe. Then the lands were inhabited by new people from the Horde. In the Russian history it is called РАЗДАЧА НОВГОРОДСКИХ ЗЕМЕЛЬ БОЯРАМ ...
4. So most likely these part of the Serbs and the Shqiptars came to the Balkans together inside the White/Albanian/Mongol/Roman Horde. It was the only empire in the history and there were no nations in it. "Us and them" (the Rjurikovici and the rest) was the formula of the world.
Nobody would force Macedonian children throughout Macedonia to learn Albanian in school, although in my opinion they should all learn both of their country's main languages. In most civilized countries that would be a no-brainer, this fuss only happens with stupid Balkans people.
Macedonians have even more reasons to learn Albanian, because many of them have Illyrian blood and claim ancient ancestry. About 10%-15% of the population in Macedonia used to call themselves Albanian Orthodox only one or two generations ago, and they still understand the language. You Sotir, are probably not an Ilievski, but an Ilievic, most likely a Serbian refugee who probably doesn't even call himself Macedonian, but a Slav.
Anyways, Sotir, I hope you realize that Albanians are reaching out and offering to create an inclusive country with you Slavic-speakers. The Albanian platform did not ask to create an Albanian Republic, like RS in Bosnia. They could ask that, you know? And why wouldn't the West give it to them if it has already been done in Bosnia?
If you want war and division, go ahead, but you know Albanians are not afraid of that. You will be fueling the more radical groups and you will probably lose much more than just your half of the country. You can't win a war against NATO with Russian-made airplanes.
Part of the Albanian population under guide from the Italian fascists formed a division calling it Ballistet Combatr. From 1941-45 this fraction fought on the side of the Italian fascists who in turn promised them independence under Italian and German control.
So the admirable Yugoslav partitions who together with the World thought Nazi Occupation are to be charged with genocide by the Albanians Nationalists of today
In other words, your grandfathers who fought against the Italian/German/Albanian fascists would be seen as the genocidal aggressors, and not people who defended their homes and land.
I have no comment on this article, however I do want to point out the hatred remarks that are written by Albanian supporters, this hate for the Macedonians and the Serbs is well known, one needs to ask the question why is that, when you have Albanians living, contributing and enjoying life in both of these countries with all the rights as a citizen, but that's not enough they want more and more, sorry to say but blood will shed on both sides for the benefit of few politicians. Peace!
Ari,
Who are you trying to fool! The World watched as the Serb army limped out of Kosova. They were a broken military force, begging for food and water. I was there and had to pity the poor disheartened Serb troops.
(US Army Veteran,
Who are you kidding! You were talking about 100's of tanks destroyed and now everyone knows(except you) that you were outsmarted by Serbs. You were shooting models of tanks. Kosovo and Metohija will be taken back. You are evil as Nazi Germany was.
Some people speak about atrocities done by serb side. I wonder if they have proof for that. I can tell you about actocities by Albo side:
1. Ottoman empire(centuries of Albanian terror), escpecially period of 1878-1912
2. ww1-"March of death" 1915 through Albania (Albanians attacks on one allied army taking side with Austrians)
3. Ww2-Albanian fascist genocide on Kosovo and Metohija 10 000 dead and 100 000 banished Serbs
4. Albanian communist terror 1945-1990 (rape, murder, destruction of monasteries) in Kosovo and Metohija and Serbs in Albania
5. 1990s terrorist "kla" in Kosovo and Metohia, Albanian war criminals in Croatia and Bosnia (rahim Ademi ect.)
6. 1998- Albanian terror on Serbs in Kosovo and Metohija
Not to mention what Serbs who live in Albania have suffered in so many centuries
Nations began to form in 17-20 centuries. Before that there was no need in nations in the current meaning. There were only 4 nations (milliets) in the Great Porta. It is well documented wether you like it or not. Because the Ottomans were the only part of the Great Horde that has never been occupied. That's why you all survived and that's why your problems started as soon as you became formally free with permanent discriminations and bloodsheds. Russia was part of Europe and very often played negative role too. Only the last Tsars became Rus people.
Shqiptars were part of 3 different milliets out of 4 and those were Milliet-i Muslim, Milliet-i Rum and Milliet-i Catholic. The only milliet where you weren't present was Milliet-i Ladino i.e. nation of the Jews. And the only thing that cemented your ancestors was the language they spoke. Regardless of their belief all 3 groups spoke dialects of the same language. They spoke plain and clear for one another so they called themselves PLAIN SPEAKING i.e. SHQIPs. As I read it happened in late 18-th century.
Later when the Oldenburgs seized Greece they wrote history of the never existed Greece and of the neighboring peoples. It was then that the glorious name of the Rus Albanians (Belie) was sticked to you. So you've got two names. One your own and the other from the Oldenburgs. But no one knows what was your name before 1780. Illyrians won't help you with self identification as they were Slavs.
Just stop, just stop ok. Everything you say it's wrong. Serbs and ilyrian have nothing together. We are not white hordes you are mistaking or purposely spreading propaganda . Slavic false history did not work then , and it won't work now . We are Shqiptar ... and our religion it's "Shqiptara" And rote don't tell us about hordes , milets, and all that garbage, enough is enough
(Ilyrian, 6 March 2017 17:21)
I take it rather easy when you use our Albanian trademark and even when you call yourself Illyrian (Slavs) because you have our markers in your happlogroup. And in a great degree I believe that you came to the Balkans during the so called Migration Periof of 4-6 (in fact in 14-16) centuries. Guess the answer can be found in your Dagestan Y-DNA.
But even if I stop unmasking your false theories you can do nothing about the things that are well documented. Like the Great Horde called in Europe Mongolian and Roman. The official name was same as of the Ottoman Porta - ВЕЛИКОЕ ГОСУДАРСТВО while here it was called also ВСЯ РУСЬ or ВСЯ РОСЬ.
Ottomans were your history so someone have to tell you about the milliets too. Your nation was composed out of 3 different Ottoman nations when the Greeks broke away. Because you had to divide lands and deside if you were Greeks or not ... Before 19 century there simply was no need in clearifying the issue because everything was routine. And of course we both know that you are not an Illyrian.
People calm down. All sides commit atrocities in war time that's fact, anyone that thinks they can be innocent in war is dillusional. Overall Albanians are the most violent bunch at the individual level, eg besa, gangs, drugs and nationalism. Having said that I visit mkd often, I can attest that times are changing, Albanian are becoming very western in culture, kids with mobiles, funny hair, drinking delaying family. I went to Struga last summer, people were very liberal looking. Anyway whatever the outcome I reckon both sides shouldn't become to western where immorality rules and materlialism. Culturally I think the Balkanites have the most beautiful culture in the world. Politics asides we are all the same, we should worry about our disappearing youth. All the Balkans educated are leaving for the west in the their droves.. only the west wins with our stupidity..
J: Also to the nasty people comment: There are bodies of Albanian children burried in mass graves in Serbia under multistorey buildings.
Trust me that time will come when they will begin to believe in their own fakes. This is how the history is made. Unfortunately most people are like cattle ... And they fear to know the truth prefering to live in the mist of their dogmas.
Genti : You can't win a war against NATO with Russian-made airplanes.
You sounded rather reasonable at least in theory but in the end you called 30 year old Soviet planes Russian ones. It's a big mistake because the even Pentagon admitts that our planes are the best for the time being. And so are our nuclear arms, our submarines, missiles and most of our conventual arms. The US is ahead in electronics and some other ammunition. Because until resent they believed that they have won in the cold war. Now it's clear that the haven't. So the Macedonians are not that desperate that you describe. Yet I agree that some compromise must be found.
That is the source of certain people's hate in the Balkans towards Serbs. Not some imaginary genocides. Serbs resist, others submit. Sloboda ili smrt!!!
(Ari Gold, 6 March 2017 16:54)
Ari,
Who are you trying to fool! The World watched as the Serb army limped out of Kosova. They were a broken military force, begging for food and water. I was there and had to pity the poor disheartened Serb troops.
Serbs are genetic Albanians and you must be proud of it like I do. Even Luzhitski Serbs that still live in Germany in fact are Albanians i.e. Whites = Aryans = Romans. People of the n-western regions of Rus were called Sjabri (Сябры) and in Byelorus they still call themselves so. Albania (White Rus) included Poland, Baltic states, Prussia, Byelorussia, Veliki Novgorod, Vladimir, Kostroma, Kolomna ect. In late 12 century the Albanian Sjabri under Georgy Danilovic conquered other Slavic peoples and in 1318-1325 seized Balkans and Central Europe. But then St. George (Gengis Khan) was poisoned and his younger brother Ivan (Bati Khan = Vatican) finished the job on the British Islands. Because the White Horde was the main whole of the Great Horde was called White aka Albanians, Beli, Bali, Balts, Belts, Belgi, Ak ect. So Serbs were Albanians from the very beginng while many peoples (Hungars, Caucasians ect) that joined the Horde were also called Albanians or Whites. Word itself came from Arabian language thanks to the Rus Mamelukes. White in Arabian is almost same as in Serbian = Abel where suffix A means nothing. So we have A-bel as white. In old writing it was written as BL but in Europe some people could read it as Arabian LB as Slavic BL. Mamelukes fought very often in Europe in 15-16 centuries so they brought the word and gave names to many toponymals like Elbrus (Elb Rus), Laba (Elba) ect.
Also keep in mind that the ВЕЛИКОЕ ГОСУДАРСТВО called in the West as Roman or Mongolian or Ottoman Empire was the only state in the world. And it was a military state where civil administrations were submitted to the Great Horde always headed by the Great Khan (kniaz, kogan, cohen,cal, col, cam, chamme ...) All peoples of mainland had to pay TAGMA tax when every 10th boy was drafted to the Horde for 25 years. It's very important to keep it in your mind if you care other Serbs that were dispersed all over the world. Like other horde's men they were militaries. So they were sent to various parts of the world and very often stayed there forever. After 25 years they could not return to their villages where their old friends were granfathers already. Besides the Cossacks were forbidden to work and to contact the occupied peoples. So it was impossible for many of them to return to civil life. That's why monasteries were built for the cossacks. Those were castles that also defended local peoples during wars and of course churches were built inside. Anyways greater part of the Serbs do not live in Serbia or even Russia. Many from the destroed Golden Horde stayed in Asia building Tibet country that included western China, Thailand, Burma, Viet Nam, Laos, Cam Puchea. Those were Early Christian Serbs who became known as Buddists, Induists, Krishnaits and Confitsians. Other Serbs belonged to the White/Albanian Horde and they assimilated in Western Europe and America.
The country has already destroyed itself. When they allowed Gruevski to erect cheap Italian statues of Hellenic figures the place was doomed. we said nothing. He spent 680 million euros of our money falsifying a history. Anything that happens to Macedonia now is the fault of the Antiquated population who have been brainwashed and Gruevski. I wonder what Gruev and Delchev would have made of this mess. The diaspora criminals in Australia, USA and Canada are also to blame through their lack of education and ultra nationalism. They left here with a suitcase of old clothes and now fancy themselves as history professors. Let the Albanians have it. your greed for hellenic history and digging for something older that wasn't there has cost you your country. Admire Gruevski's statues and read your false encyclopedias because that's all that is left.
“Goce Delchev and Dame Gruev used to pass Death Sentences to those who claimed the blood of Alexander runs in us“. You made Greater Albania possible by your actions. Don't blame Albania. Don't blame the Greeks. Don't blame Zaev. Don't blame Georgievski. Blame yourselves. You fly a flag with a Hellenic symbol (the star of Vergina). Shame on you. Our flag is a gold lion on a red background not some Hellenistic symbol. You are all embarrassing.
Most of the balkans people if not all of Europe are of Rus/Slavic origin?
*** 90% of the Europeans are genetic Slavs that inhabited this peninsula in 14-th century. You can see it in their happlogroups where R1b is a proven descendant from R1a.
Albanians who mind you before Shqiptar were known and called themselves Arber, living In Arberia are some of the oldest people living on Europe speaking one of the oldest Indo-European languages
*** I have no phobias because I grew up in an international atmosphere and I conduct no vendetta against the Shqiptars. I only want our lands back while my history tours are just a tool to unmask your theories. I don't mind you calling yourself Albanian or Illyrian until it becomes a tool of racket. I believe that the most natural name of yours is the Shqiptars but not Whites, Birds, Illyrians and now Arbers ...
Joni
You brought war in Ukraine and you are trying to bring it in Balkan just for your interest.
*** Ukraine is the basic land of the Rus civilization - same as Kosovo for the Serbs. That's why we will soon return our lands in south-west Rus and help you to make peace with the Serbs. The way we can do it ... Kosovo must be divided between you two I think. Pristina's provisional government should stop to exist and Albania should openly tell what it claims in Serbia, Montenegro and Macedonia. Only on paper those things are much easier than in real life.
Whats absurd is that the Platorm does not note the appaling atrocities commited by Albanian bandits/Ballisti during ottoman occupation and WWII.
Couple of nice Albanians lads during WWII came by on the road from ohrid resen near my mums village, they asked a local farmer working the field wheres Resen, the farmer gave them instructions and the they shot the farmer. Anyway to cut a long story short, near the end of the war the brothers of the farmer found those nice lads i Tetovo and handed out the just punishment.
Whats absurd is that the Platorm does not note the appaling atrocities commited by Albanian bandits/Ballisti during ottoman occupation and WWII.
Couple of nice Albanians lads during WWII came by on the road from ohrid resen near my mums village, they asked a local farmer working the field wheres Resen, the farmer gave them instructions and the they shot the farmer. Anyway to cut a long story short, near the end of the war the brothers of the farmer found those nice lads i Tetovo and handed out the just punishment.
Albanians are a violent bunch inherintly
(Bulgar of Ohrid, 6 March 2017 11:04) # Commen
Albanians are most famous in Europe for killing their own ,in BLOOD FUEDS ,killing rival families male children ,for pay back.What do you think they will do to other races of people ?!?!
Nasty people ))))
This Zoran Zaev is definitely a man that will truly take Macedonian into the correct direction tand to a better future, for all of Macedonias citizens!
Why not acknowledge the many many Serbian acts of aggression and genocide which were aimed against the Albanian nation? I am glad that many in the Balkans are coming out with the truths about what happened in the past thru-out history, as it is a main ingredient to bring reconciliation!!!
I have a message for all these Albanian computer Rambos. Do your mother a favor. Take off your house coat and your pajamas, get a shave, put a little bit of antiperspirant deodorant, put on some nice clothes and go get a job. Every day you stay up late at night and sleep all day. Get a job, get married and stop playing "political scientist" when you are clueless about the real world and getting old. Enough with video games and bullshit, get a job or get out of the basement and out of the house. Your parents can't take your crap any longer. OK, now Git going out there and don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.
@bulgarofohrid.
Even if Albanians kill neighboring slavs for the next 100 years it wont be as much as the atrocities commited by the slavs against Albanians until now. read what happened when you slavs moved in balkans, you murdered, burned, occupied. Those people were Illyrians. Albanians lands are chopped in 6 countries in you have the guts to tell be Albanians are violent. You peace of shit dont even mention Mother Theresa in your modern architecture in Shkup, and she is an Albanian of Macedonia. How fucked up do you have to be. Your new nationality is not helping you. Albanians will get what is theirs, cuz all they want is theirs. We want it want it peacefully, but you slavs want to kill children.
The Serbian Army has dedicated the last century to liberating the Balkans from foreign occupiers. From the Turks, to Austro-Hungary, to Nazi Germany all the way to NATO. Serbs fight the occupiers, others become their faithful servants in exchange for scraps and pieces of Serbia's territory. The Serbian Army liberated FYROM twice in the last century and has relentlessly fought the good fight while others choose servitude and collaboration.
That is the source of certain people's hate in the Balkans towards Serbs. Not some imaginary genocides. Serbs resist, others submit. Sloboda ili smrt!!!
Even if Albanians kill neighboring slavs for the next 100 years it wont be as much as the atrocities commited by the slavs against Albanians until now. read what happened when you slavs moved in balkans, you murdered, burned, occupied. Those people were Illyrians. Albanians lands are chopped in 6 countries ...
(Kimi, 6 March)
1. Where it was written that the Slavic people of the Illyrians and you had something in common? I do not exclude it although because of thr 15-20% of the Slavic blood that you have. But please don't go collective crazy or start speaking Slavic.
2. Shqiptars as I believe are a young nation composed of the 3 milliets (nations) of the Ottomans - Milliet-i Rum, Milliet-i Muslim and Milliet-i Catholic. Language was the only thing that cemented you and that's why you call yourself the Shqiptars i.e. "plain (clear) speaking".
3. In 15 century greater part of the peoples of the Balkans were killed because of the epidemy. The Great Horde killed all including Horde's own troops deployed in southern Europe. Then the lands were inhabited by new people from the Horde. In the Russian history it is called РАЗДАЧА НОВГОРОДСКИХ ЗЕМЕЛЬ БОЯРАМ ...
4. So most likely these part of the Serbs and the Shqiptars came to the Balkans together inside the White/Albanian/Mongol/Roman Horde. It was the only empire in the history and there were no nations in it. "Us and them" (the Rjurikovici and the rest) was the formula of the world.
Continue - rote
You are doing this! If you are 1 onefold anti – Albanian we will be 100-fold. And soon or latter you will be kicked out of Europe. You are not peaceful nation! You brought war in Ukraine and you are trying to bring it in Balkan just for your interest.
And no rote keep it in your mind we don’t FEAR for the only reason that there do not exist no one of our neighbors that can claim a single territory over Albania, instead they fear, they fear because they stole our territories with our people in, and this is well documented in WWI.
The today Kosovo belong to us, Serbia already take a large part of Kosovo. If you will check, you will see that Kosovo had a large territory which is part of today Serbia. Part of Kosovo was given to Montenegro and Macedonia.
Just stop, just stop ok. Everything you say it's wrong. Serbs and ilyrian have nothing together. We are not white hordes you are mistaking or purposely spreading propaganda . Slavic false history did not work then , and it won't work now . We are Shqiptar ... and our religion it's "Shqiptara" And rote don't tell us about hordes , milets, and all that garbage, enough is enough
Shqiptar comes from 'plain speaking'and we are a new nation? Most of the balkans people if not all of Europe are of Rus/Slavic origin? You are bugging my friend, dont blindly believe anything you read and if you wanna present yourself as an educated and well read person read a few versions of history and then come out with your own conclusions.
Though I do agree that nation states do not date back too long ago and I know that it hurts you and mostly xenophobic serbs to admit it but Albanians who mind you before Shqiptar were known and called themselves Arber, living In Arberia are some of the oldest people living on Europe speaking one of the oldest Indo-European languages and have lived in that part of the world and will continue to do so for centuries so suck it up!
J: Also to the nasty people comment: There are bodies of Albanian children burried in mass graves in Serbia under multistorey buildings.
Trust me that time will come when they will begin to believe in their own fakes. This is how the history is made. Unfortunately most people are like cattle ... And they fear to know the truth prefering to live in the mist of their dogmas.
People calm down. All sides commit atrocities in war time that's fact, anyone that thinks they can be innocent in war is dillusional. Overall Albanians are the most violent bunch at the individual level, eg besa, gangs, drugs and nationalism. Having said that I visit mkd often, I can attest that times are changing, Albanian are becoming very western in culture, kids with mobiles, funny hair, drinking delaying family. I went to Struga last summer, people were very liberal looking. Anyway whatever the outcome I reckon both sides shouldn't become to western where immorality rules and materlialism. Culturally I think the Balkanites have the most beautiful culture in the world. Politics asides we are all the same, we should worry about our disappearing youth. All the Balkans educated are leaving for the west in the their droves.. only the west wins with our stupidity..
Serbs are genetic Albanians and you must be proud of it like I do. Even Luzhitski Serbs that still live in Germany in fact are Albanians i.e. Whites = Aryans = Romans. People of the n-western regions of Rus were called Sjabri (Сябры) and in Byelorus they still call themselves so. Albania (White Rus) included Poland, Baltic states, Prussia, Byelorussia, Veliki Novgorod, Vladimir, Kostroma, Kolomna ect. In late 12 century the Albanian Sjabri under Georgy Danilovic conquered other Slavic peoples and in 1318-1325 seized Balkans and Central Europe. But then St. George (Gengis Khan) was poisoned and his younger brother Ivan (Bati Khan = Vatican) finished the job on the British Islands. Because the White Horde was the main whole of the Great Horde was called White aka Albanians, Beli, Bali, Balts, Belts, Belgi, Ak ect. So Serbs were Albanians from the very beginng while many peoples (Hungars, Caucasians ect) that joined the Horde were also called Albanians or Whites. Word itself came from Arabian language thanks to the Rus Mamelukes. White in Arabian is almost same as in Serbian = Abel where suffix A means nothing. So we have A-bel as white. In old writing it was written as BL but in Europe some people could read it as Arabian LB as Slavic BL. Mamelukes fought very often in Europe in 15-16 centuries so they brought the word and gave names to many toponymals like Elbrus (Elb Rus), Laba (Elba) ect.
Also keep in mind that the ВЕЛИКОЕ ГОСУДАРСТВО called in the West as Roman or Mongolian or Ottoman Empire was the only state in the world. And it was a military state where civil administrations were submitted to the Great Horde always headed by the Great Khan (kniaz, kogan, cohen,cal, col, cam, chamme ...) All peoples of mainland had to pay TAGMA tax when every 10th boy was drafted to the Horde for 25 years. It's very important to keep it in your mind if you care other Serbs that were dispersed all over the world. Like other horde's men they were militaries. So they were sent to various parts of the world and very often stayed there forever. After 25 years they could not return to their villages where their old friends were granfathers already. Besides the Cossacks were forbidden to work and to contact the occupied peoples. So it was impossible for many of them to return to civil life. That's why monasteries were built for the cossacks. Those were castles that also defended local peoples during wars and of course churches were built inside. Anyways greater part of the Serbs do not live in Serbia or even Russia. Many from the destroed Golden Horde stayed in Asia building Tibet country that included western China, Thailand, Burma, Viet Nam, Laos, Cam Puchea. Those were Early Christian Serbs who became known as Buddists, Induists, Krishnaits and Confitsians. Other Serbs belonged to the White/Albanian Horde and they assimilated in Western Europe and America.
Part of the Albanian population under guide from the Italian fascists formed a division calling it Ballistet Combatr. From 1941-45 this fraction fought on the side of the Italian fascists who in turn promised them independence under Italian and German control.
So the admirable Yugoslav partitions who together with the World thought Nazi Occupation are to be charged with genocide by the Albanians Nationalists of today
In other words, your grandfathers who fought against the Italian/German/Albanian fascists would be seen as the genocidal aggressors, and not people who defended their homes and land.
@ rote
Our history is not based on what you think rote.
The problem can be hidden rote, but it still rest there in sleep until he explode. You helped Serbia in WWI create this mess in Balkan and you still are helping one sided not because it is the right think to do, but just because it convenient to Russia.
Russia is trying to enlarge its own position in disadvantage of Albanian nation. Albanians were forced to be Serbian, Montenegrin, Macedonians, Greeks – and when we ask to be what we are they get angry. Or better say they fear!. A consolidated nation don't fear nothing. Our language, our symbols, our flag is always a provocation for our neighbors. A paranoia, that is their problem not ours. Well we will fight for our rights.
So we a simple and small nation were able to steal lands from Greece, Serbia, Macedonia which are the sixfold bigger than us ? Albanians today live in large in Greece, Fyrom, Montenegro, Serbia, Kosovo, Albania and you tell that we stole “their” lands?
You did a CRIME on Albanian nation and you are still supporting it. It is a shame for Russia.
All the Europe know what you did against Albanian nation for this are supporting us. Russia is the only who need conflict in Balkan no one else.
I would be happy if you didn't confuse serbs and albanians as one and the same. We are not the same. Never were never will be. We are from this planet, albanians from planet Illyria in the Degeba system.
First this Soros-bot lies when he says the Albanian platform came out before the election. That is a provable lie, it came out after the election. If it had come out before the election he would have zero support from the Macedonian public, since as we have discovered recently Zaeviqi would force Macedonian children throughout Macedonia to learn Albanian in school from grade two onward. The lie is also evident when he says the platform was crafted in Macedonia. If that is so why would Macedonian Albanians have any need to travel to Tirana for consultations with Edi Rama when they could easily do that in Macedonia. It is not as if they are not allowed to do so in Macedonia. This man, and I use that term very loosely, needs to be prosecuted for treason for all the harm he has done to Macedonia and for inter-ethnic relations in the country to say nothing of harm done further afield.
Genti : You can't win a war against NATO with Russian-made airplanes.
You sounded rather reasonable at least in theory but in the end you called 30 year old Soviet planes Russian ones. It's a big mistake because the even Pentagon admitts that our planes are the best for the time being. And so are our nuclear arms, our submarines, missiles and most of our conventual arms. The US is ahead in electronics and some other ammunition. Because until resent they believed that they have won in the cold war. Now it's clear that the haven't. So the Macedonians are not that desperate that you describe. Yet I agree that some compromise must be found.
Most of the balkans people if not all of Europe are of Rus/Slavic origin?
*** 90% of the Europeans are genetic Slavs that inhabited this peninsula in 14-th century. You can see it in their happlogroups where R1b is a proven descendant from R1a.
Albanians who mind you before Shqiptar were known and called themselves Arber, living In Arberia are some of the oldest people living on Europe speaking one of the oldest Indo-European languages
*** I have no phobias because I grew up in an international atmosphere and I conduct no vendetta against the Shqiptars. I only want our lands back while my history tours are just a tool to unmask your theories. I don't mind you calling yourself Albanian or Illyrian until it becomes a tool of racket. I believe that the most natural name of yours is the Shqiptars but not Whites, Birds, Illyrians and now Arbers ...
Joni
You brought war in Ukraine and you are trying to bring it in Balkan just for your interest.
*** Ukraine is the basic land of the Rus civilization - same as Kosovo for the Serbs. That's why we will soon return our lands in south-west Rus and help you to make peace with the Serbs. The way we can do it ... Kosovo must be divided between you two I think. Pristina's provisional government should stop to exist and Albania should openly tell what it claims in Serbia, Montenegro and Macedonia. Only on paper those things are much easier than in real life.
All this could have been avoided had the government not pursued irredentist antiquisation policies. Had they changed their name to Slavomacedonia it would have stopped hostilities with Greece. Had they not erected cheap Italian reproduction statues trying to falsify history they would not have offended Greece. their naming of their airport. their naming of the highways. their distorted curriculum imposed on their children at school. all embraced a link to a Greek historical figures. They brainwashed their society.
They offended the Bulgarians by claiming their historical figures like Dame Gruev, Gotse Dalchev and Hristo Tatachev who were Bulgarian. they offended Albanians by making them feel marginalized and treating them like second class citizens. Instead of learning from Kosovo and trying to embrace a policy of multiculturalism and integration they practiced segregation and intolerance.
Nations began to form in 17-20 centuries. Before that there was no need in nations in the current meaning. There were only 4 nations (milliets) in the Great Porta. It is well documented wether you like it or not. Because the Ottomans were the only part of the Great Horde that has never been occupied. That's why you all survived and that's why your problems started as soon as you became formally free with permanent discriminations and bloodsheds. Russia was part of Europe and very often played negative role too. Only the last Tsars became Rus people.
Shqiptars were part of 3 different milliets out of 4 and those were Milliet-i Muslim, Milliet-i Rum and Milliet-i Catholic. The only milliet where you weren't present was Milliet-i Ladino i.e. nation of the Jews. And the only thing that cemented your ancestors was the language they spoke. Regardless of their belief all 3 groups spoke dialects of the same language. They spoke plain and clear for one another so they called themselves PLAIN SPEAKING i.e. SHQIPs. As I read it happened in late 18-th century.
Later when the Oldenburgs seized Greece they wrote history of the never existed Greece and of the neighboring peoples. It was then that the glorious name of the Rus Albanians (Belie) was sticked to you. So you've got two names. One your own and the other from the Oldenburgs. But no one knows what was your name before 1780. Illyrians won't help you with self identification as they were Slavs.
Just stop, just stop ok. Everything you say it's wrong. Serbs and ilyrian have nothing together. We are not white hordes you are mistaking or purposely spreading propaganda . Slavic false history did not work then , and it won't work now . We are Shqiptar ... and our religion it's "Shqiptara" And rote don't tell us about hordes , milets, and all that garbage, enough is enough
(Ilyrian, 6 March 2017 17:21)
I take it rather easy when you use our Albanian trademark and even when you call yourself Illyrian (Slavs) because you have our markers in your happlogroup. And in a great degree I believe that you came to the Balkans during the so called Migration Periof of 4-6 (in fact in 14-16) centuries. Guess the answer can be found in your Dagestan Y-DNA.
But even if I stop unmasking your false theories you can do nothing about the things that are well documented. Like the Great Horde called in Europe Mongolian and Roman. The official name was same as of the Ottoman Porta - ВЕЛИКОЕ ГОСУДАРСТВО while here it was called also ВСЯ РУСЬ or ВСЯ РОСЬ.
Ottomans were your history so someone have to tell you about the milliets too. Your nation was composed out of 3 different Ottoman nations when the Greeks broke away. Because you had to divide lands and deside if you were Greeks or not ... Before 19 century there simply was no need in clearifying the issue because everything was routine. And of course we both know that you are not an Illyrian.
Albanians a yong nation? Milet it's a Turkish word, what does that have to do with Albanians? Everybody in the Balkans admitted that we were there first , including serbs. So what are you talking about ?
a massage for so-called macedonians: Don't act tough,and don't act stupid. Take a look at serbia, "aka Yugoslavia" bigger ,stronger, and now look at them. So-called macedonians are minority there , they just make noise rite now. Later will be to late if they act stupid for gruefskis personal interest. ✌
That is the source of certain people's hate in the Balkans towards Serbs. Not some imaginary genocides. Serbs resist, others submit. Sloboda ili smrt!!!
(Ari Gold, 6 March 2017 16:54)
Ari,
Who are you trying to fool! The World watched as the Serb army limped out of Kosova. They were a broken military force, begging for food and water. I was there and had to pity the poor disheartened Serb troops.
I have no comment on this article, however I do want to point out the hatred remarks that are written by Albanian supporters, this hate for the Macedonians and the Serbs is well known, one needs to ask the question why is that, when you have Albanians living, contributing and enjoying life in both of these countries with all the rights as a citizen, but that's not enough they want more and more, sorry to say but blood will shed on both sides for the benefit of few politicians. Peace!
Ari,
Who are you trying to fool! The World watched as the Serb army limped out of Kosova. They were a broken military force, begging for food and water. I was there and had to pity the poor disheartened Serb troops.
(US Army Veteran,
Who are you kidding! You were talking about 100's of tanks destroyed and now everyone knows(except you) that you were outsmarted by Serbs. You were shooting models of tanks. Kosovo and Metohija will be taken back. You are evil as Nazi Germany was.
Some people speak about atrocities done by serb side. I wonder if they have proof for that. I can tell you about actocities by Albo side:
1. Ottoman empire(centuries of Albanian terror), escpecially period of 1878-1912
2. ww1-"March of death" 1915 through Albania (Albanians attacks on one allied army taking side with Austrians)
3. Ww2-Albanian fascist genocide on Kosovo and Metohija 10 000 dead and 100 000 banished Serbs
4. Albanian communist terror 1945-1990 (rape, murder, destruction of monasteries) in Kosovo and Metohija and Serbs in Albania
5. 1990s terrorist "kla" in Kosovo and Metohia, Albanian war criminals in Croatia and Bosnia (rahim Ademi ect.)
6. 1998- Albanian terror on Serbs in Kosovo and Metohija
Not to mention what Serbs who live in Albania have suffered in so many centuries
The Serbs army killed a lot of Albanian civilians in Macedonia. Even Trotsky wrote about it and he saw these crimes first hand. This is the truth and Zaev is right.
Second, I don't get how getting Albanian services in government institutions forces Macedonian kids to learn Albanian. It's like saying a lion ate a gazelle in Africa today and that's why I'm lactose intolerant. One would have to be a complete idiot to even entertain the idea that one brings the other. Having two official languages does not mean you're forced to learn both.
Also to the nasty people comment: There are bodies of Albanian children burried in mass graves in Serbia under multistorey buildings. Before you say that to anyone of any ethnicity, take a second ,wait and remember that Albanian children are rotting in mass graves under some apartment building in Serbia. If you still feel superior enough to make the "nasty" people claim, then you could quite easily pass as one of the scum of the earth and psychopaths that killed these children and threw them in mass graves and tried to hide the crime.
Nobody would force Macedonian children throughout Macedonia to learn Albanian in school, although in my opinion they should all learn both of their country's main languages. In most civilized countries that would be a no-brainer, this fuss only happens with stupid Balkans people.
Macedonians have even more reasons to learn Albanian, because many of them have Illyrian blood and claim ancient ancestry. About 10%-15% of the population in Macedonia used to call themselves Albanian Orthodox only one or two generations ago, and they still understand the language. You Sotir, are probably not an Ilievski, but an Ilievic, most likely a Serbian refugee who probably doesn't even call himself Macedonian, but a Slav.
Anyways, Sotir, I hope you realize that Albanians are reaching out and offering to create an inclusive country with you Slavic-speakers. The Albanian platform did not ask to create an Albanian Republic, like RS in Bosnia. They could ask that, you know? And why wouldn't the West give it to them if it has already been done in Bosnia?
If you want war and division, go ahead, but you know Albanians are not afraid of that. You will be fueling the more radical groups and you will probably lose much more than just your half of the country. You can't win a war against NATO with Russian-made airplanes.
Rote seems to hold a PhD in tabloidism. He passes junk knowledge collected at stormfront.com as historical provable facts. An internet junkie using Internet "reasonable" trolling writing style. Rote, tie a rock and find a river. Well don't worry about a rock, your bs junk knowledge is heavy enough. "Y-genome"... I wonder how many minutes have you spent in a lab doing genetic research before you swing your "scientific" knowledge around. Clown.
The country has already destroyed itself. When they allowed Gruevski to erect cheap Italian statues of Hellenic figures the place was doomed. we said nothing. He spent 680 million euros of our money falsifying a history. Anything that happens to Macedonia now is the fault of the Antiquated population who have been brainwashed and Gruevski. I wonder what Gruev and Delchev would have made of this mess. The diaspora criminals in Australia, USA and Canada are also to blame through their lack of education and ultra nationalism. They left here with a suitcase of old clothes and now fancy themselves as history professors. Let the Albanians have it. your greed for hellenic history and digging for something older that wasn't there has cost you your country. Admire Gruevski's statues and read your false encyclopedias because that's all that is left.
“Goce Delchev and Dame Gruev used to pass Death Sentences to those who claimed the blood of Alexander runs in us“. You made Greater Albania possible by your actions. Don't blame Albania. Don't blame the Greeks. Don't blame Zaev. Don't blame Georgievski. Blame yourselves. You fly a flag with a Hellenic symbol (the star of Vergina). Shame on you. Our flag is a gold lion on a red background not some Hellenistic symbol. You are all embarrassing.
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