Bundestag calls Turkish crimes against Armenians genocide

Thank you Germany.What my Armenian great grandparents had to live through, and left them scattered around the world, was part of a state sponsored programme to wipe their race out.Recognising it as genocide helps bring justice.

amazing how the bosnian muslims and albanian muslims say nothing about the millions and millions of orthodox Christians exterminated by them and their turk brothers...

An important gesture considering the fact that Germany was the main ally of the Ottoman Empire. The next step for Germany would be to recognize the genocide of Serbs west of the Drina river during WWII. In Jasenovac alone the number of Serbs butchered in the most sadistic ways number in the hundreds of thousands. There were over 20 concentration camps held by the Croat Nazi puppet state throughout the territory of modern day Croatia and Bosnia. Their main ally was also Germany.

Im an Albanian but not a muslim, I'm an atheist but this was Genocide and it must be recognized as so

One genocidal NATO member against another genocidal NATO member. Lets see how Erdogan retaliates.

Roberto wrote:

It is just so ironic that this media consistently calls out Turkey on its historic policies of genocide and cover-up, but refuses to acknowledge it at home with the Serbian-led genocides of the 1990's, and their ongoing cover-up. Such obvious and disgusting hypocrisy.

###


Uh... duh.

Probably because they were not genocide.

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

You can fool people some of the time... but not all the time.

Armenia: > 1M Armenians dead; no war
Bosnia: 100k dead on all sides; 4 year war

A lot of propaganda on this website forum by Serb haters.

Congratulations to the German government. It's a disgrace that the British government still refuses to acknowledge that the atrocities perpetrated by the Turks against the Armenian people constituted genocide, even though they're happy to support the moslem lies about Srebrenica.

"The Truth", congratulations on your stunning ignorance.My grandmother is Armenian, she was born in Alexandria in Egypt. she is the daughter of 2 genocide survivors who fled ended up there with nothing but the clothes they stood in. She came to UK after she met my grandad in the war when he was in the royal air force.She is a fantastic person. You are not.

The only logical and appropriate thing to call it.

"Recognising it as genocide helps bring justice. "
(Andy UK, 2 June 2016 13:36)

Well, it would help more if Turks would recognize it. But in his denial and his dislike to call a genocide genocide, Turkish president Erdogan is similar to the Serbian president Nicolic.

@bishop
Calling Turks my brothers is like calling Serbs my brothers. They were both occupiers and both were kicked out.
On the other hand, Turks are YOUR brothers. Check your DNA if you have the guts to do so. My guess is you're scared to find out who you are.

@cry me a river
i am just stating FACTS...the both the Albanian Muslims and Bosnian Muslims were Ottoman foot soldiers who to this day support the Turks in every single way possible.

Bosnian Muslim leaders along with their Turkish allies to this day propagate lies at the UN that "the serbs killed 250,000 Muslims in Bosnia during the 90s"...such inflated lies...

In an interview about the current situation to a state TV station, Erdoğan declared that Turkey will support its Albanian brothers with its troops, reports the Albanian online newspaper “GlobiSot”.
https://balkanstory.wordpress.com/2012/05/07/erdogan-turkish-soldiers-will-help-albanians-liberate-their-lands/

@ cry me garbage

Stop writing nonsense every single day. albanians originate from mountains around black sea (most likely present day turkey).

If this wasn't genocide then I don't know what is.
Shame on Turkey then and shame on Turkey!

You see how Germany sets the example. They committed one of the worst genocides in the history of the world and yet they don't try to deny it or forget about it like Turkey(Armenia), Serbia(Bosnia), and Russia(Ukraine). They accept it and call out others who do the same. It's no wonder that Germany, despite losing two world wars, is the strongest in Europe and continues to lead Europe.

Well, it would help more if Turks would recognize it. But in his denial and his dislike to call a genocide genocide, Turkish president Erdogan is similar to the Serbian president Nicolic.
(Comm. Parrisson, 2 June 2016 14:20)


No one will ask you to describe a duck.

amazing how the bosnian muslims and albanian muslims say nothing about the millions and millions of orthodox Christians exterminated by them and their turk brothers...
(bishop,

Amazing how your hatred prevents you from reading what's in front of your nose.

Rote, the Armenians were pro-Russian because they lived under the evil rules of the Ottoman Empire and were treated a second class citizens because they didn't want to live under the primitive rules of Islam. The Turks had already massacred thousands of Armenians in the 1890s.

The Turks wanted rid of the Armenians dead as they were a successful business people and were scared that they would leave their crumbling empire.

If you think those two facts are enough reason to wipe out over a million people then you should go and join IS.

Then what is your excuse.
(Smart Serb, 3 June 2016 19:29)

- I do not say, I am a Jew.
- I do not say, I am most of the time right.
- I do not say, I am smart.

I do say, someone here is a Jew.
I do say, someone here is at least 90% right.
Unfortunately, he is a very stupid Jew - and that is inexcusable.

The God - in all his wisdom cursed him to be right.

His name begins with "R".

I wonder why the Western countries’ condemnation of genocide is selective . During World War I (1914-1918), the Ottoman Empire committed genocide to million to 1,5 million Armenian citizens in eastern Anatolia.Nazi Germany committed genocide during World War II, killing 5 to 6 million Jews, about 500,000 Roma, and millions of other people in German territory. The International Convention of Genocide does not refer to the period before 20th century, as the extermination of native Indians having been committed by the American settlers over the time they disembarked the Mayflower to the the end of 19th century. The International Convention has not affected Croatia, either. The independent state of Croatia committed genocide during World War II, killing 600,000 to 700,000 Serbian citizens. No widespread international condemnation has been passed. About 500.000 Serbs were killed by Croatian ustashas in the concentration camps. There is a lot of evidence to substantiate this claim. Simon Wiesenthal’s institute confirmed the claim,too.Croats are being lulled into believing that no burden of the infamous past will ever come into broad daylight. The point here is that the Croatian officials are trying to revise history and rehabilitate fascist-ustasha Croatia of the period 1941 -1945. The new EU member ,Croatia, has not made any atonement for the atrocities having inflicted to Serbs in the World War Two. Today they cry out war whoops : Hang Serbs on the willows.

Well, if Albanians "have been silent" about Armenian genocide then why Serbia hasn`t recognized Armenian genocide either? Is it because Nikolic is a good friend of Erdogan?

Armenian genocide was indeed a genocide but recognizing Armenian genocide is politics. Armenia is a Putin ally and doesn`t recognize Kosovo. So, reciprocity is the term.

Regarding your definition of genocide, it is irrelevant because you are a nobody compared to the UN.
(icj1, 4 June 2016 04:43)

Newsflash: the UN did not recognize Srebrenica as genocide because of Russia's veto against this overly political decision. The definition of genocide is the ACTUAL destruction of a people and the physical removal of their presence from an area, not just the INTENT. If intent were included, half the people on this site would be guilty of genocide because of what they say, feel, and believe. That's why genocide counts for events like the Holocaust, the Armenian Genocide, and Rwanda even though it's thrown around like a buzzword in the Balkans for every little crime.

Srebrenica is mass killing and a crime against humanity because this type of violence happened in one area, not across Bosnia, and women and young children were allowed to leave, making the targets specific. So sorry, Genocide covers everyone, not a selected group. More appropriately, Croatia can and should be accused of genocide of Serbs, Jews and Roma under the NDH.

The UN doesn't recognize Srebrenica as genocide. Try doing some research the next time you want to sound smart.

Sarcastic much?
but it is rare from what I've witnessed.
(cry me a river, 3 June 2016 20:04)

Rare, indeed - but not impossible. A stupid Jew, in particular if with more power than deserved is a major curse to the colleagues. I know one CEO. She should be ashamed.
I our case here luckily it's merely a blogger and a (retired?) teacher, not a CEO.

Wish him luck and more sensibility. While being at least 90% right (in disagreement with Village-Bey who gave him 100% approval instead of my 90%) the "missing" 10% is crucial how he turns potential allies into enemies. And that is stupid to say the least.

Thank you Germany.What my Armenian great grandparents had to live through, and left them scattered around the world, was part of a state sponsored programme to wipe their race out.Recognising it as genocide helps bring justice.
(Andy UK, 2 June 2016 13:36)
o my god, now all of sudden you are an Armenian. Its ok, but there is no difference between Serbia and Turkey. They are the same and committed genocide.

Well, it would help more if Turks would recognize it. But in his denial and his dislike to call a genocide genocide, Turkish president Erdogan is similar to the Serbian president Nicolic.
(Comm. Parrisson, 2 June 2016 14:20)
=====================================
Really? It sounds more like Ustashe and Erdogan have similarities. Nobody has yet called Jasenovac genocide and a helluva lot more victims there including a separate concentration camp for children.
That was an attempt of total extermination. So how can you possibly call Srebrenica genocide when women and children were put on busses and allowed to leave and only men and boys (in muslim terms young soldiers) were the only ones killed and it was revenge for killing Serbian civilians in that area. Was that not genocide if we are to use the same yard stick?
It was a war crime but genocide was used as a politican tool.

Dumb Serb

Very shortly the genocide has happened because the Haes people also called Armenians were absolutely pro-Rrussian. There were other reasons and factors but the main reason was same as why Serbs were bombed in 1999. A very negative role in the Armeniantragedy played the KUrds who became the main tool of Mustafa Kemal and who inhabited vast Armenian lands.

I’m happy for Armenian people! Finally justice! The today Turks maybe are not responsible for what their ancestors did – but I find them guilty for deny what their ancestors did.
They massacres around 1.5 million Armenians and this is a proven horrible fact.
Hope soon or latter "Europe" will do the same with Albanian nation, and I find them guilty in destruction of Albania, and for all suffering my people had to suffer in Greece, Serbia, Montenegro, Macedonia just because they decided so. Hope one day these great Germans will admit the genocidal massacres made against Albanians in WWI, and ask to us forgiveness, and resolve the Cham issue because the innocent victims are still screaming loud.

'Gregor Gysi of the Left party, who criticized Turkey's actions towards the Kurds, said that Germany was a historic accomplice and had an obliged to recognize the mass killings of Armenians during the First World War.
"We have to call it what it is - genocide. The Bundestag (German parliament) should not allow Turkey to blackmail it," he said.'

This is something long in coming, and should be repeated by other govt's in the west. The genocide against the Armenians - and many repeated genocides against the Kurdish ppl, the echoes of which Erdogan continues until today, need to be condemned around the world in the strongest possible terms. Do not forget that Hitler used the silence and inaction of the 'civilized' world, in response to the Armenian genocide, to empower his genocide of the Jews and other targeted groups.

It is just so ironic that this media consistently calls out Turkey on its historic policies of genocide and cover-up, but refuses to acknowledge it at home with the Serbian-led genocides of the 1990's, and their ongoing cover-up. Such obvious and disgusting hypocrisy.

http://www.albaniapress.com/lajme/12883/war-crimes-and-cover-up-.html

Can someone tell me WHY the Armenian Genocide took place. The reason(s) seem to be blurred by time or covered up.

Well, it would help more if Turks would recognize it. But in his denial and his dislike to call a genocide genocide, Turkish president Erdogan is similar to the Serbian president Nicolic.
(Comm. Parrisson, 2 June 2016 14:20)
=====================================
Really? It sounds more like Ustashe and Erdogan have similarities. Nobody has yet called Jasenovac genocide and a helluva lot more victims there including a separate concentration camp for children.
That was an attempt of total extermination. So how can you possibly call Srebrenica genocide when women and children were put on busses and allowed to leave and only men and boys (in muslim terms young soldiers) were the only ones killed and it was revenge for killing Serbian civilians in that area. Was that not genocide if we are to use the same yard stick?
It was a war crime but genocide was used as a politican tool.

The Srebrenica Genocide needs to be added into the article. 8,000 males aged between 13-60 were executed add point blank. While the females were forced from their homes in the most gruesome manner..If only the victims could rest in piece.

The Srebrenica Genocide needs to be added into the article. 8,000 males aged between 13-60 were executed add point blank. While the females were forced from their homes in the most gruesome manner..If only the victims could rest in piece.
(Minister Frank, 3 June 2016 09:38)

Yes Mr Frank,
The Genocide in 1992 in Srebinica where Oric and his cronies killed Serb civilians,1,000 men,women and children (under 13 years).
Yes Mr Frank, the 1995 Genocide of storm in Croatia where 1,000's of civilian Serb's where killed,and more than 250,000 driven off their home and land.
Yes Mr Frank,partucularly during the 2nd world war ,more than 500,000 Serb's killed in concentration camps by Croatian and Bosnian Muslim's.
Yes Mr Frank,we have alot of civilian's killings first,then in order we get to the 1995 Srebinica soldiers killings,t OK be listed.
Yes Mr Frank,we need to recognise alot of killing to civilians that happen before 1995,especially that France, Great Britain,USA,Russia, Germany ,and etc,etc,have done thru out history.
Let's not just blame Serb's,Turk's,and forget or not mention other countries,and Empire's GENOCIDE.Which will reward these creatures and is not fair on the victim's threw out history!!.
P's their is alest a million GENOCIDE incident to be registered threw out history,which the victim's need!.

The Srebrenica Genocide needs to be added into the article. 8,000 males aged between 13-60 were executed add point blank. While the females were forced from their homes in the most gruesome manner..If only the victims could rest in piece.
(Minister Frank, 3 June 2016 09:38)

Just by the way you described it, you've negated Srebrenica as genocide since the mass killing - which is what it is - targeted a specific group of people. Genocide kills everyone regardless of age or gender with the sole purpose of erasing all traces of their historical existence. That, Srebrenica was not.

The NDH's actions against Serbs in the 1940s however, can and should be constituted genocide.

A lot of propaganda on this website forum by Serb haters.
(factman, 2 June 2016 22:58)

Yes, in Bosnia, 100.000 people killed in 4 years of war on all side, but to be more exact,

Bosnians: 30,521 soldiers killed, 31,583 civilians killed

Croats: 6,000 soldiers killed, 2,484 civilians killed

Ethnic Serbs 21,173 soldiers killed, 4,179 civilians

-Wow you dont even know your own history. Ottoman empire conquered us in the 14th century, not the 17th century. Did you already forgot about the lost battle 1389??? What do you think was it about?

You are literally the least informed person I`ve ever came across.
(Gjon Marku, 4 June 2016

To Gjon,
I never mention that ,I mention Albania in Azerbaijan was conquered in the 17 th Century by the Ottomans and the Albanian's brought across to the Balkans after that period.You find your DNA in Azerbaijan.
About ,Serbia history don't worry about 1389. We, Serb's have ,Building's to proof that we been living in the Balkans!.Worry about your Albanian existences ,that has no proof beyond 17 th Century in the Balkans,and give me proof with a building ,or bridge that you Albanian's build before the 16 th Century!!!.

YOu must not be talking about Rote.
(cry me a river, 5 June 2016 16:04)

1) Would you EVER think, the A-Kosovar Village-Bey would give Rote 100% approval and myself in 90% agreement with Village-Bey a 90%?

2) I never looked inside of Rote's pants but I silently assumed, Rote is not a Jew (being wrong or right). Simply because Rote never associated himself with Jewry in any form.

3) The "R" in question (who according Village-Bey is 100% right and according me "merely" to 90%) is boosting on nearly every occasion that he is a Jew.

Because of his style to make enemies and pretend to be more important than he is (yeah, he knows Kurti, Thaçi, Dodik, et-cetera-et-cetera in person while not even driving a single mile in Serbia because he does not have a driver's license) - the 10% where is is actually is not right negates everything and makes him ridiculous.

Probably the most ridiculous was when he (as a Jew!) openly celebrated here as Saudi Arabia recognized Kosovo, for victory of democracy.

I have to say that I know exactly that neither Iran nor North Korea does recognize Kosovo... but I am not really celebrating such "allies". I pray that "R" keeps his mouth shut, the more he does, the better for his own cause.

@cry-me-a-river

A bit thinking... I can say that Szemi is the total opposition of Roberto.

While Szemi is about 90% wrong about everything, the remaining 10% kind of makes up for the rest and elevates him.

On the other side, poor Roberto is to 90% right - but the remaining 10% is a total disaster.

@cry-me-a-river: thank you / faleminderit, even if I am not an Armenian, at least I am not aware of it.

Regarding other commenters.

The next biggest crime in this area next to genocide is to be a stupid Jew.

Jew is a Jew, regardless of Wall Street or Dohány utca. Or Путин, По(т)рошенко, Clinton or whom-not. A Jew cannot allow him/herself to be stupid.
Even if that Jew is right 90% of the time. Stupidity for a Jew is genetically next-to-impossible, deadly sin.

@icj
the point is that the albanians and bosnian muslims accepted the ottoman occupation and willingly worked with them. the serbs did not and could not wait for the moment to kick the turks back to asia...only christian boys were enslaved by the turks as foot soldiers; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janissaries
you consider this to be done willingly? 42 Grand Viziers of the Ottoman Empire were of Albanian origin...90% of albos converted to islam to show acceptance of the occupiers jihadi, expansionist faith...big difference...

The Srebrenica Genocide needs to be added into the article. 8,000 males aged between 13-60 were executed add point blank. While the females were forced from their homes in the most gruesome manner..If only the victims could rest in piece.
(Minister Frank, 3 June 2016 09:38)

Just by the way you described it, you've negated Srebrenica as genocide since the mass killing - which is what it is - targeted a specific group of people. Genocide kills everyone regardless of age or gender with the sole purpose of erasing all traces of their historical existence. That, Srebrenica was not.
(the actual truth, 3 June 2016 23:36)

You're flogging a dead horse because the UN has already established beyond reasonable doubt that some members of the VRS committed genocide in Srebrenica in 1995. That is because those thousands men and boys were killed with INTENT to destroy, in whole or in part, an ethnical group, as such.

The key element that makes the killing of members of a national, ethnical, racial or religious group genocide is the INTENT to destroy that group, in whole or in part, as such. That's how genocide is defined by the UN and what some members of the VRS did in Srebrenica in 1995 fitted that definition.

Regarding your definition of genocide, it is irrelevant because you are a nobody compared to the UN.

@ cry me garbage

Stop writing nonsense every single day. albanians originate from mountains around black sea (most likely present day turkey).
(Ratko,

I did DNA test and it says I am 100% European and 96% Balkans + 4% Italian/roman and this is more then enough proff for me as Albanian not sure what you saying about places so far away, you see as DNA does not lie and you can not burn it as long as we are alive, not like books etc. do it your self and you will find out. 23andme.com

Might not like your results but its ok.

Sorry,but I laugh at 96% Balkan.Everyone has been threw the Balkans.
Answer me anyone ,why was their a state of Albania,in Azerbaijan until the 17 th Century.As well ,in that part of Azerbaijan,they speak your Albanian language and majority of their surnames end in letter "I",and are Albanian surnames!!.
(sasa.p from near Jagodina, Serbia, 4 June 2016 14:44)

-Wow Albania in Azerbaijan. There is also a Kosovo in Africa. Not to forget Albany in the USA. Did you know that the Name for Scotland in Gaelic is Alba or Albania in medieval times??? Maybe we came from Scotland?! Great Britan in brythonic is called Albion. Maybe we are brits?! Would explain our passion for tea. What a nonsense.

-There is plenty of recordings of Albanians during the Nemanjic dynasty. Nobel Families like Musaka, Dukagjini and Kastrioti are older than the Serb orthodox church. Ask Father Janjic at visoki Decani. He`ll tell you everything about it.

P's That your people,and that's where the Albanian's originally come from the 17th Century to Balkans,when the Ottomans conquered that area,and start moving them to the Balkans to enslave them.
(sasa.p from near Jagodina, Serbia, 4 June 2016 14:44)

-Wow you dont even know your own history. Ottoman empire conquered us in the 14th century, not the 17th century. Did you already forgot about the lost battle 1389??? What do you think was it about?

You are literally the least informed person I`ve ever came across.

That's why genocide counts for events like the Holocaust, the Srebrenica is mass killing and a crime against humanity because this type of violence happened in one area, not across Bosnia, and women and young children were allowed to leave, making the targets specific.
(the actual truth, 4 June 2016 16:35)

Mate, you don't have to humiliate yourself with such nonsense. There is nothing in the genocide definition that says that women and children need to be killed in order for the genocide to happen.
----------

More appropriately, Croatia can and should be accused of genocide of Serbs, Jews and Roma under the NDH.
(the actual truth, 4 June 2016 16:35)

Who in Croatia has committed the crime of genocide under the NDH and needs to be accused of that?!
----------

The UN doesn't recognize Srebrenica as genocide. Try doing some research the next time you want to sound smart.
(the actual truth, 4 June 2016 16:35)

But it's been 15 years since when the UN established “beyond all reasonable doubt that genocide, crimes against humanity and violations of the laws or customs of war were perpetrated against the Bosnian Muslims, at Srebrenica, in July 1995”. Are you saying that you should be believed and not the UN?!

P's That your people,and that's where the Albanian's originally come from the 17th Century to Balkans,when the Ottomans conquered that area,and start moving them to the Balkans to enslave them.
(sasa.p from near Jagodina, Serbia, 4 June 2016 14:44)

So how did Skenderbeu (Gjergj Kastrioti) fought Turks in 1400s? Time Machine?

But I have seen Serbs are convinced of Albanians migrating here when you look at language and European linguist or historians they say these people are not reliable.

Take yours and it will show you that you come from Slavic region of Russia as my Serbian college roommate did and it showed 47% from Russia.

Not trying to fight as I feel I am native and you feel I came from some place.

Your language is from Slavic roots look at this video:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdQwalCPNAs]

Look when Albanian appears in Balkans and when Serbian and then learn! You see language and DNA can not be burned like many homes and books.
Cheers lets agree to disagree!

To Rote,
I don't care what battle to believe!.
Albanians where living up to the 17 th Century as self rule in today area of Azerbaijan!.The Albanian's have not build nothing in the Balkans before 17 th Century to proof that they where living as self rule!.
In the Balkans there is presence of Greek,Macedonian,Serb,Bulgarian,and Ottoman presence before the 17 th Century.You will hear the Albanian language spoken in the Mountains of Azerbaijan,and similar custom's.

So again, I'm not sure what your point is!!!
(icj1, 3 June 2016 16:25) # Comment

To icj1,
He means the Albanian's and Bosnjaks,changed religion from better life or sold out,and where not for their faith,instead for Ottoman rule.
They where keen to fight for Ottoman Empire,instead against it and for freedom,self rule.

@icj
you don't understand my point? re read your last copy and paste rant for something which is not clear at all. my point is VERY simple; Albanians and Muslims in Bosnia (the people) view the Turks as brothers and have willingly supported the turk genocide denial and the jerk genocide of kurds in turkey as well...funny how the albos and turks refuse to give the kurds in turkey independence yet they want it for albos in kosovo...pathetic...

@ cry me garbage

Stop writing nonsense every single day. albanians originate from mountains around black sea (most likely present day turkey).
(Ratko,

Ratko,
You're beggining to rival sj with your supreme knowledge. Since you know so much about the origins of the Albanians why don't you enlighten me with some facts that you should have readily available, given your expert knowledge.

- When did the Albanians settle the Balkans
- What is the purpose of their arrival
- How come their language is unique and has nothing in common with Turkish languages
- How do you explain their national dress that has been documented in the Balkans for over 2,000 years.

Ratko, I don't expect a logical answer from you. So, don't bother bc your brain might overheat. You could ask sj for an assist.

I did DNA test and it says I am 100% European and 96% Balkans + 4% Italian/roman and this is more then enough proff for me as Albanian not sure what you saying about places so far away, you see as DNA does not lie and you can not burn it as long as we are alive, not like books etc. do it your self and you will find out. 23andme.com

Might not like your results but its ok.
(Gjakova, 4 June 2016 05:26)

To Gjakova,
Sorry,but I laugh at 96% Balkan.Everyone has been threw the Balkans.
Answer me anyone ,why was their a state of Albania,in Azerbaijan until the 17 th Century.As well ,in that part of Azerbaijan,they speak your Albanian language and majority of their surnames end in letter "I",and are Albanian surnames!!.
P's That your people,and that's where the Albanian's originally come from the 17th Century to Balkans,when the Ottomans conquered that area,and start moving them to the Balkans to enslave them.

Newsflash: the UN did not recognize Srebrenica as genocide because of Russia's veto against this overly political decision.
(the actual truth, 4 June 2016 16:35)

Russia has not vetoed the UN determination that genocide was committed in Srebrenica in 1995. Was that a newsflash in your brain mate because you appear to be the only one to have seen it :)
----------

The definition of genocide is the ACTUAL destruction of a people and the physical removal of their presence from an area, not just the INTENT. If intent were included, half the people on this site would be guilty of genocide because of what they say, feel, and believe
(the actual truth, 4 June 2016 16:35)

What an ignorant comment! No wonder you did not and could not provide any reference showing the definition above. Instead, you wrote how YOU define genocide. According to the UN, I quote:

“Genocide means any of the following acts committed with INTENT to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

(a) killing members of the group;
(b) causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical
destruction in whole or in part;
(d) imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) forcibly transferring children of the group to another group”

The UN then found that what happened in Srebrenica in 1995 fitted the definition above.

No one will ask you to describe a duck.
(Apples & Oranges, 2 June 2016 15:12)

More like big apples and small apples, eh?

Sasa,

If you visit Kastoria than you see dozens and dozens of Albanian churches from 11th - 13th century. No one, not even Greeks or Macedonians would say, these churches are not Albanian. If you visit Novgorod or Pskov you will see a similar thing: well-off citizen groups built gazillion of churches on their own initiative.

The Albanian problem can be seen tough - and no one in sane mind does deny the obvious. The churches in Novgorod or Pskov are of much higher artistic value from both inside and outside. Because... Albanians were (and until today are) much more poor economically.

But being poor does not mean, they weren't there. Just not in Kosovo at that time and either economically totally dependent on center or just being a scavenger.

The language of Caucasian-Albanins is quite close to Ossetians by the way, has nothing to do with Albanians in Kastoria or Kosovo.

i am just stating FACTS...the both the Albanian Muslims and Bosnian Muslims were Ottoman foot soldiers
(bishop, 2 June 2016 19:53)

Of course... All territories (Serbia included) that were part of the Ottoman Empire provided foot (or cavalry) soldiers to the Ottoman Empire. That was the Ottoman military system. Not sure what point you are trying to make, though!

i am just stating FACTS...the both the Albanian Muslims and Bosnian Muslims were Ottoman foot soldiers
(bishop, 2 June 2016 19:53)

Of course... All territories (Serbia included) that were part of the Ottoman Empire provided foot (or cavalry) soldiers to the Ottoman Empire. That was the Ottoman military system. Not sure what point you are trying to make, though!
(icj1, 3 June 2016 00:30)

the point is that the albanians and bosnian muslims accepted the ottoman occupation
(bishop, 3 June 2016 15:49)

Of course, like Serbia and the rest of the Balkans did because at that time the Ottoman Empire was a superpower. And I can't blame Serbia (and the rest of the Balkan nations for that) because the alternative was extermination... So again, I'm not sure what your point is!!!

The next biggest crime in this area next to genocide is to be a stupid Jew.

Jew is a Jew, regardless of Wall Street or Dohány utca. Or Путин, По(т)рошенко, Clinton or whom-not. A Jew cannot allow him/herself to be stupid.
Even if that Jew is right 90% of the time. Stupidity for a Jew is genetically next-to-impossible, deadly sin.
(Ataman, 3 June 2016 02:13)

Then what is your excuse.

Hope one day these great Germans will admit the genocidal massacres made against Albanians in WWI, and ask to us forgiveness, and resolve the Cham issue because the innocent victims are still screaming loud.
(Joni, 3 June 2016 14:05)

joni,
I don't wish to contradict you, but it was the Greeks that were responsible for the ethnic cleansing and massacre of the Muslim Cham Albanians.

The next biggest crime in this area next to genocide is to be a stupid Jew.

Jew is a Jew, regardless of Wall Street or Dohány utca. Or Путин, По(т)рошенко, Clinton or whom-not. A Jew cannot allow him/herself to be stupid.
Even if that Jew is right 90% of the time. Stupidity for a Jew is genetically next-to-impossible, deadly sin.
(Ataman

Sarcastic much?
Jews are my neighbors, co-coworkers and friends. I'm not going to say that stupidity is genetically next to impossible for a jew, but it is rare from what I've witnessed.

(Smart Serb, 3 June 2016 19:29)

- I do not say, I am a Jew.
- I do not say, I am most of the time right.
- I do not say, I am smart.

I do say, someone here is a Jew.
I do say, someone here is at least 90% right.
Unfortunately, he is a very stupid Jew - and that is inexcusable.

The God - in all his wisdom cursed him to be right.

His name begins with "R".
(Ataman

YOu must not be talking about Rote.

Ataman : His name begins with "R".

A good song for you … https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tm4BrZjY_Sg You’ve been away for so long that you’re no longer a Russian and not yet a Magyar. Just a horse with no name or a “безродный космополит” If you have something to say do it. If not keep on barking from behind your fence. Ты давно уже не русский, потому, что это образ мысли и жизни, а не национальная принадлежность. Про таких, как ты хорошо сказал Владимир Семенович: «и не друг, и не враг, а так …» Вот ты кто!

Andy

I am tired of therepeating simple things! Ottomans and Turks were as similar as black and white! Ottomans of 15-17 centuries were as close as green and white! What you all talk about is the Tanzimat period of the Ottomans (after 1826) when things really changed for worse.

Ataman

Why do you complain at me instead of a dialogue? You do know that it always smells bad. Even if you are свой среди чужих и чужой среди своих.

I wonder why the Western countries’ condemnation of genocide is selective .
(Beli, 5 June 2016 19:02)

After the international community defined genocide in 1948, the UN has determined that two events were genocide beyond all reasonable doubt: Rwanda in 1994 and Srebrenica in 1995.

The Western countries have condemned them both so I'm not sure what selectivity you are talking about! Is there any other event that the UN has determined to be genocide and Western countries have not condemned?

Sasa

Brother how do you know that Serbs did that and were there and then or that the Shqips did or not something? Why do we all trust in the history books that contains no links or mentioning of the sources of their info? How do you know that Kosovska Bitka was between Serbs and Turks if the only medieval mentioning of the battle is in the Russian history and only as a part of the Russian history where Russians fought on both sides and where the Great Russian Kniaz Dmitry-1 aka Sultan Murad-1 was killed?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illustrated_Chronicle_of_Ivan_the_Terrible

In this encyclopedia of the Russian history there are no events that weren’t part of the Russian history while we have here not only the description but also the very first picture of the battle.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kosovo

What evidence do you have that Murat was not Russian or that Obelic ever existed or there was some “Serbian” aristocracy (other than Russian) that was as if totally eliminated here? Do you know that the Byelorussians (White Horde Russians) and other north-west Russians called themselves СЯБРЫ? They even have such pop groups.

https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A1%D1%8F%D0%B1%D1%80%D1%8B

And do you know that Njemanici shows the place where they were from? It is the Neman River in Byelorussia … To say nothing that they were also Uros/Russians. The tragedy is that all peoples of the Balkans are in a similar situation.

The point icj1 is as follows:

Yes, everyone had to more or less fall in line, but some of us were a little more accommodating than others to the Ottomans.

1. Some of us changed our religion and culture in order to gain economic favor and cheaper taxes -- and some of us did not.

2. Some of us never fought back and just accepted it --- and some of us staged rebellion after rebellion across the centuries and didn't accept it.

Serbs were of the second category. They went along with one hand, and staged rebellion with the other.

It's totally wrong decision. What happened one century ago nothing to do with today Turkey

@Rote: are you sure, the Albanian Village-Bey was talking about you being right 100% of the time? Or someone else? That single letter "R" is not about you.

Sorry, you completely missed what I am saying.

@ Moderate Serb

I had no time to read my comment twice, so there was a misunderstanding. I was not referring to Turks – I have a lot of other things for what blaming them, a lot - but I was referring to the “Great Powers” which today talk and condemned to much the “genocide” while in the treaty of 1913 , in an unprecedented way was given the decision to condemn with death more than half of the Albanian population. Albanian lands was given to Serbia and Greece and the Albanian population was killed, massacred by Serbs, Greeks under their nose – if this is not “genocide” what is?
You make “genocide” if you try to exterminate another ethnic group and that happened.
And of course Greeks are responsible for the massacres and ethnic cleansing of Albanians – for this they have no b$$lls to remove the “war law” with Albania. You know we and Greece still are in war according to their constitution – If they remove that law the owners of Janina should return to their home. Soon or later that will happened because there is not any international law which can help Greece find an excuse, because we are talking to the entire region of Janina, not to one or two Villages.

The point icj1 is as follows:

Yes, everyone had to more or less fall in line, but some of us were a little more accommodating than others to the Ottomans.
(factman, 7 June 2016 21:30)

I don't think any of us was accommodating to the Ottomans (whether less or more) unless any of us is more than 100 years old.
----------

1. Some of us changed our religion and culture in order to gain economic favor and cheaper taxes -- and some of us did not.
(factman, 7 June 2016 21:30)

I'm not sure any of us has been lucky to live in a country that charges different tax rates depending on religion. But if I were lucky enough to live in such a country, I'd certainly follow the religion for which the tax rate is the lowest. I'm not an idiot to pay my hard earned money for having the "privilege" of praying in a different way to something that does not exist.
----------

2. Some of us never fought back and just accepted it --- and some of us staged rebellion after rebellion across the centuries and didn't accept it.
(factman, 7 June 2016 21:30)

I don't think any of us has a chance to accept or rebel to the Ottomans, unless any of us is more than 100 years old.
----------

Serbs were of the second category. They went along with one hand, and staged rebellion with the other.
(factman, 7 June 2016 21:30)

Of course, Serbs, like the rest of the Balkans people were in the second category. I did not say anything to the contrary.

"Recognising it as genocide helps bring justice. "
(Andy UK, 2 June 2016 13:36)

Well, it would help more if Turks would recognize it. But in his denial and his dislike to call a genocide genocide, Turkish president Erdogan is similar to the Serbian president Nicolic.

'Gregor Gysi of the Left party, who criticized Turkey's actions towards the Kurds, said that Germany was a historic accomplice and had an obliged to recognize the mass killings of Armenians during the First World War.
"We have to call it what it is - genocide. The Bundestag (German parliament) should not allow Turkey to blackmail it," he said.'

This is something long in coming, and should be repeated by other govt's in the west. The genocide against the Armenians - and many repeated genocides against the Kurdish ppl, the echoes of which Erdogan continues until today, need to be condemned around the world in the strongest possible terms. Do not forget that Hitler used the silence and inaction of the 'civilized' world, in response to the Armenian genocide, to empower his genocide of the Jews and other targeted groups.

It is just so ironic that this media consistently calls out Turkey on its historic policies of genocide and cover-up, but refuses to acknowledge it at home with the Serbian-led genocides of the 1990's, and their ongoing cover-up. Such obvious and disgusting hypocrisy.

http://www.albaniapress.com/lajme/12883/war-crimes-and-cover-up-.html

Thank you Germany.What my Armenian great grandparents had to live through, and left them scattered around the world, was part of a state sponsored programme to wipe their race out.Recognising it as genocide helps bring justice.
(Andy UK, 2 June 2016 13:36)
o my god, now all of sudden you are an Armenian. Its ok, but there is no difference between Serbia and Turkey. They are the same and committed genocide.

amazing how the bosnian muslims and albanian muslims say nothing about the millions and millions of orthodox Christians exterminated by them and their turk brothers...
(bishop,

Amazing how your hatred prevents you from reading what's in front of your nose.

@bishop
Calling Turks my brothers is like calling Serbs my brothers. They were both occupiers and both were kicked out.
On the other hand, Turks are YOUR brothers. Check your DNA if you have the guts to do so. My guess is you're scared to find out who you are.

@ cry me garbage

Stop writing nonsense every single day. albanians originate from mountains around black sea (most likely present day turkey).

amazing how the bosnian muslims and albanian muslims say nothing about the millions and millions of orthodox Christians exterminated by them and their turk brothers...

You see how Germany sets the example. They committed one of the worst genocides in the history of the world and yet they don't try to deny it or forget about it like Turkey(Armenia), Serbia(Bosnia), and Russia(Ukraine). They accept it and call out others who do the same. It's no wonder that Germany, despite losing two world wars, is the strongest in Europe and continues to lead Europe.

Ataman : His name begins with "R".

A good song for you … https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tm4BrZjY_Sg You’ve been away for so long that you’re no longer a Russian and not yet a Magyar. Just a horse with no name or a “безродный космополит” If you have something to say do it. If not keep on barking from behind your fence. Ты давно уже не русский, потому, что это образ мысли и жизни, а не национальная принадлежность. Про таких, как ты хорошо сказал Владимир Семенович: «и не друг, и не враг, а так …» Вот ты кто!

It's totally wrong decision. What happened one century ago nothing to do with today Turkey

Sorry,but I laugh at 96% Balkan.Everyone has been threw the Balkans.
Answer me anyone ,why was their a state of Albania,in Azerbaijan until the 17 th Century.As well ,in that part of Azerbaijan,they speak your Albanian language and majority of their surnames end in letter "I",and are Albanian surnames!!.
(sasa.p from near Jagodina, Serbia, 4 June 2016 14:44)

-Wow Albania in Azerbaijan. There is also a Kosovo in Africa. Not to forget Albany in the USA. Did you know that the Name for Scotland in Gaelic is Alba or Albania in medieval times??? Maybe we came from Scotland?! Great Britan in brythonic is called Albion. Maybe we are brits?! Would explain our passion for tea. What a nonsense.

-There is plenty of recordings of Albanians during the Nemanjic dynasty. Nobel Families like Musaka, Dukagjini and Kastrioti are older than the Serb orthodox church. Ask Father Janjic at visoki Decani. He`ll tell you everything about it.

P's That your people,and that's where the Albanian's originally come from the 17th Century to Balkans,when the Ottomans conquered that area,and start moving them to the Balkans to enslave them.
(sasa.p from near Jagodina, Serbia, 4 June 2016 14:44)

-Wow you dont even know your own history. Ottoman empire conquered us in the 14th century, not the 17th century. Did you already forgot about the lost battle 1389??? What do you think was it about?

You are literally the least informed person I`ve ever came across.

Newsflash: the UN did not recognize Srebrenica as genocide because of Russia's veto against this overly political decision.
(the actual truth, 4 June 2016 16:35)

Russia has not vetoed the UN determination that genocide was committed in Srebrenica in 1995. Was that a newsflash in your brain mate because you appear to be the only one to have seen it :)
----------

The definition of genocide is the ACTUAL destruction of a people and the physical removal of their presence from an area, not just the INTENT. If intent were included, half the people on this site would be guilty of genocide because of what they say, feel, and believe
(the actual truth, 4 June 2016 16:35)

What an ignorant comment! No wonder you did not and could not provide any reference showing the definition above. Instead, you wrote how YOU define genocide. According to the UN, I quote:

“Genocide means any of the following acts committed with INTENT to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

(a) killing members of the group;
(b) causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical
destruction in whole or in part;
(d) imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) forcibly transferring children of the group to another group”

The UN then found that what happened in Srebrenica in 1995 fitted the definition above.

@ Moderate Serb

I had no time to read my comment twice, so there was a misunderstanding. I was not referring to Turks – I have a lot of other things for what blaming them, a lot - but I was referring to the “Great Powers” which today talk and condemned to much the “genocide” while in the treaty of 1913 , in an unprecedented way was given the decision to condemn with death more than half of the Albanian population. Albanian lands was given to Serbia and Greece and the Albanian population was killed, massacred by Serbs, Greeks under their nose – if this is not “genocide” what is?
You make “genocide” if you try to exterminate another ethnic group and that happened.
And of course Greeks are responsible for the massacres and ethnic cleansing of Albanians – for this they have no b$$lls to remove the “war law” with Albania. You know we and Greece still are in war according to their constitution – If they remove that law the owners of Janina should return to their home. Soon or later that will happened because there is not any international law which can help Greece find an excuse, because we are talking to the entire region of Janina, not to one or two Villages.

Congratulations to the German government. It's a disgrace that the British government still refuses to acknowledge that the atrocities perpetrated by the Turks against the Armenian people constituted genocide, even though they're happy to support the moslem lies about Srebrenica.

@cry me a river
i am just stating FACTS...the both the Albanian Muslims and Bosnian Muslims were Ottoman foot soldiers who to this day support the Turks in every single way possible.

Bosnian Muslim leaders along with their Turkish allies to this day propagate lies at the UN that "the serbs killed 250,000 Muslims in Bosnia during the 90s"...such inflated lies...

In an interview about the current situation to a state TV station, Erdoğan declared that Turkey will support its Albanian brothers with its troops, reports the Albanian online newspaper “GlobiSot”.
https://balkanstory.wordpress.com/2012/05/07/erdogan-turkish-soldiers-will-help-albanians-liberate-their-lands/

The Srebrenica Genocide needs to be added into the article. 8,000 males aged between 13-60 were executed add point blank. While the females were forced from their homes in the most gruesome manner..If only the victims could rest in piece.

The Srebrenica Genocide needs to be added into the article. 8,000 males aged between 13-60 were executed add point blank. While the females were forced from their homes in the most gruesome manner..If only the victims could rest in piece.
(Minister Frank, 3 June 2016 09:38)

Yes Mr Frank,
The Genocide in 1992 in Srebinica where Oric and his cronies killed Serb civilians,1,000 men,women and children (under 13 years).
Yes Mr Frank, the 1995 Genocide of storm in Croatia where 1,000's of civilian Serb's where killed,and more than 250,000 driven off their home and land.
Yes Mr Frank,partucularly during the 2nd world war ,more than 500,000 Serb's killed in concentration camps by Croatian and Bosnian Muslim's.
Yes Mr Frank,we have alot of civilian's killings first,then in order we get to the 1995 Srebinica soldiers killings,t OK be listed.
Yes Mr Frank,we need to recognise alot of killing to civilians that happen before 1995,especially that France, Great Britain,USA,Russia, Germany ,and etc,etc,have done thru out history.
Let's not just blame Serb's,Turk's,and forget or not mention other countries,and Empire's GENOCIDE.Which will reward these creatures and is not fair on the victim's threw out history!!.
P's their is alest a million GENOCIDE incident to be registered threw out history,which the victim's need!.

That's why genocide counts for events like the Holocaust, the Srebrenica is mass killing and a crime against humanity because this type of violence happened in one area, not across Bosnia, and women and young children were allowed to leave, making the targets specific.
(the actual truth, 4 June 2016 16:35)

Mate, you don't have to humiliate yourself with such nonsense. There is nothing in the genocide definition that says that women and children need to be killed in order for the genocide to happen.
----------

More appropriately, Croatia can and should be accused of genocide of Serbs, Jews and Roma under the NDH.
(the actual truth, 4 June 2016 16:35)

Who in Croatia has committed the crime of genocide under the NDH and needs to be accused of that?!
----------

The UN doesn't recognize Srebrenica as genocide. Try doing some research the next time you want to sound smart.
(the actual truth, 4 June 2016 16:35)

But it's been 15 years since when the UN established “beyond all reasonable doubt that genocide, crimes against humanity and violations of the laws or customs of war were perpetrated against the Bosnian Muslims, at Srebrenica, in July 1995”. Are you saying that you should be believed and not the UN?!

P's That your people,and that's where the Albanian's originally come from the 17th Century to Balkans,when the Ottomans conquered that area,and start moving them to the Balkans to enslave them.
(sasa.p from near Jagodina, Serbia, 4 June 2016 14:44)

So how did Skenderbeu (Gjergj Kastrioti) fought Turks in 1400s? Time Machine?

But I have seen Serbs are convinced of Albanians migrating here when you look at language and European linguist or historians they say these people are not reliable.

Take yours and it will show you that you come from Slavic region of Russia as my Serbian college roommate did and it showed 47% from Russia.

Not trying to fight as I feel I am native and you feel I came from some place.

Your language is from Slavic roots look at this video:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdQwalCPNAs]

Look when Albanian appears in Balkans and when Serbian and then learn! You see language and DNA can not be burned like many homes and books.
Cheers lets agree to disagree!

Well, it would help more if Turks would recognize it. But in his denial and his dislike to call a genocide genocide, Turkish president Erdogan is similar to the Serbian president Nicolic.
(Comm. Parrisson, 2 June 2016 14:20)
=====================================
Really? It sounds more like Ustashe and Erdogan have similarities. Nobody has yet called Jasenovac genocide and a helluva lot more victims there including a separate concentration camp for children.
That was an attempt of total extermination. So how can you possibly call Srebrenica genocide when women and children were put on busses and allowed to leave and only men and boys (in muslim terms young soldiers) were the only ones killed and it was revenge for killing Serbian civilians in that area. Was that not genocide if we are to use the same yard stick?
It was a war crime but genocide was used as a politican tool.

Well, it would help more if Turks would recognize it. But in his denial and his dislike to call a genocide genocide, Turkish president Erdogan is similar to the Serbian president Nicolic.
(Comm. Parrisson, 2 June 2016 14:20)
=====================================
Really? It sounds more like Ustashe and Erdogan have similarities. Nobody has yet called Jasenovac genocide and a helluva lot more victims there including a separate concentration camp for children.
That was an attempt of total extermination. So how can you possibly call Srebrenica genocide when women and children were put on busses and allowed to leave and only men and boys (in muslim terms young soldiers) were the only ones killed and it was revenge for killing Serbian civilians in that area. Was that not genocide if we are to use the same yard stick?
It was a war crime but genocide was used as a politican tool.

Dumb Serb

Very shortly the genocide has happened because the Haes people also called Armenians were absolutely pro-Rrussian. There were other reasons and factors but the main reason was same as why Serbs were bombed in 1999. A very negative role in the Armeniantragedy played the KUrds who became the main tool of Mustafa Kemal and who inhabited vast Armenian lands.

I’m happy for Armenian people! Finally justice! The today Turks maybe are not responsible for what their ancestors did – but I find them guilty for deny what their ancestors did.
They massacres around 1.5 million Armenians and this is a proven horrible fact.
Hope soon or latter "Europe" will do the same with Albanian nation, and I find them guilty in destruction of Albania, and for all suffering my people had to suffer in Greece, Serbia, Montenegro, Macedonia just because they decided so. Hope one day these great Germans will admit the genocidal massacres made against Albanians in WWI, and ask to us forgiveness, and resolve the Cham issue because the innocent victims are still screaming loud.

@ cry me garbage

Stop writing nonsense every single day. albanians originate from mountains around black sea (most likely present day turkey).
(Ratko,

I did DNA test and it says I am 100% European and 96% Balkans + 4% Italian/roman and this is more then enough proff for me as Albanian not sure what you saying about places so far away, you see as DNA does not lie and you can not burn it as long as we are alive, not like books etc. do it your self and you will find out. 23andme.com

Might not like your results but its ok.

I did DNA test and it says I am 100% European and 96% Balkans + 4% Italian/roman and this is more then enough proff for me as Albanian not sure what you saying about places so far away, you see as DNA does not lie and you can not burn it as long as we are alive, not like books etc. do it your self and you will find out. 23andme.com

Might not like your results but its ok.
(Gjakova, 4 June 2016 05:26)

To Gjakova,
Sorry,but I laugh at 96% Balkan.Everyone has been threw the Balkans.
Answer me anyone ,why was their a state of Albania,in Azerbaijan until the 17 th Century.As well ,in that part of Azerbaijan,they speak your Albanian language and majority of their surnames end in letter "I",and are Albanian surnames!!.
P's That your people,and that's where the Albanian's originally come from the 17th Century to Balkans,when the Ottomans conquered that area,and start moving them to the Balkans to enslave them.

No one will ask you to describe a duck.
(Apples & Oranges, 2 June 2016 15:12)

More like big apples and small apples, eh?

An important gesture considering the fact that Germany was the main ally of the Ottoman Empire. The next step for Germany would be to recognize the genocide of Serbs west of the Drina river during WWII. In Jasenovac alone the number of Serbs butchered in the most sadistic ways number in the hundreds of thousands. There were over 20 concentration camps held by the Croat Nazi puppet state throughout the territory of modern day Croatia and Bosnia. Their main ally was also Germany.

Roberto wrote:

It is just so ironic that this media consistently calls out Turkey on its historic policies of genocide and cover-up, but refuses to acknowledge it at home with the Serbian-led genocides of the 1990's, and their ongoing cover-up. Such obvious and disgusting hypocrisy.

###


Uh... duh.

Probably because they were not genocide.

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

You can fool people some of the time... but not all the time.

Armenia: > 1M Armenians dead; no war
Bosnia: 100k dead on all sides; 4 year war

A lot of propaganda on this website forum by Serb haters.

The Srebrenica Genocide needs to be added into the article. 8,000 males aged between 13-60 were executed add point blank. While the females were forced from their homes in the most gruesome manner..If only the victims could rest in piece.
(Minister Frank, 3 June 2016 09:38)

Just by the way you described it, you've negated Srebrenica as genocide since the mass killing - which is what it is - targeted a specific group of people. Genocide kills everyone regardless of age or gender with the sole purpose of erasing all traces of their historical existence. That, Srebrenica was not.

The NDH's actions against Serbs in the 1940s however, can and should be constituted genocide.

Andy

I am tired of therepeating simple things! Ottomans and Turks were as similar as black and white! Ottomans of 15-17 centuries were as close as green and white! What you all talk about is the Tanzimat period of the Ottomans (after 1826) when things really changed for worse.

Ataman

Why do you complain at me instead of a dialogue? You do know that it always smells bad. Even if you are свой среди чужих и чужой среди своих.

@Rote: are you sure, the Albanian Village-Bey was talking about you being right 100% of the time? Or someone else? That single letter "R" is not about you.

Sorry, you completely missed what I am saying.

Sasa

Brother how do you know that Serbs did that and were there and then or that the Shqips did or not something? Why do we all trust in the history books that contains no links or mentioning of the sources of their info? How do you know that Kosovska Bitka was between Serbs and Turks if the only medieval mentioning of the battle is in the Russian history and only as a part of the Russian history where Russians fought on both sides and where the Great Russian Kniaz Dmitry-1 aka Sultan Murad-1 was killed?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illustrated_Chronicle_of_Ivan_the_Terrible

In this encyclopedia of the Russian history there are no events that weren’t part of the Russian history while we have here not only the description but also the very first picture of the battle.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kosovo

What evidence do you have that Murat was not Russian or that Obelic ever existed or there was some “Serbian” aristocracy (other than Russian) that was as if totally eliminated here? Do you know that the Byelorussians (White Horde Russians) and other north-west Russians called themselves СЯБРЫ? They even have such pop groups.

https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A1%D1%8F%D0%B1%D1%80%D1%8B

And do you know that Njemanici shows the place where they were from? It is the Neman River in Byelorussia … To say nothing that they were also Uros/Russians. The tragedy is that all peoples of the Balkans are in a similar situation.

One genocidal NATO member against another genocidal NATO member. Lets see how Erdogan retaliates.

Well, it would help more if Turks would recognize it. But in his denial and his dislike to call a genocide genocide, Turkish president Erdogan is similar to the Serbian president Nicolic.
(Comm. Parrisson, 2 June 2016 14:20)


No one will ask you to describe a duck.

"The Truth", congratulations on your stunning ignorance.My grandmother is Armenian, she was born in Alexandria in Egypt. she is the daughter of 2 genocide survivors who fled ended up there with nothing but the clothes they stood in. She came to UK after she met my grandad in the war when he was in the royal air force.She is a fantastic person. You are not.

i am just stating FACTS...the both the Albanian Muslims and Bosnian Muslims were Ottoman foot soldiers
(bishop, 2 June 2016 19:53)

Of course... All territories (Serbia included) that were part of the Ottoman Empire provided foot (or cavalry) soldiers to the Ottoman Empire. That was the Ottoman military system. Not sure what point you are trying to make, though!

@icj
the point is that the albanians and bosnian muslims accepted the ottoman occupation and willingly worked with them. the serbs did not and could not wait for the moment to kick the turks back to asia...only christian boys were enslaved by the turks as foot soldiers; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janissaries
you consider this to be done willingly? 42 Grand Viziers of the Ottoman Empire were of Albanian origin...90% of albos converted to islam to show acceptance of the occupiers jihadi, expansionist faith...big difference...

(Smart Serb, 3 June 2016 19:29)

- I do not say, I am a Jew.
- I do not say, I am most of the time right.
- I do not say, I am smart.

I do say, someone here is a Jew.
I do say, someone here is at least 90% right.
Unfortunately, he is a very stupid Jew - and that is inexcusable.

The God - in all his wisdom cursed him to be right.

His name begins with "R".
(Ataman

YOu must not be talking about Rote.

Thank you Germany.What my Armenian great grandparents had to live through, and left them scattered around the world, was part of a state sponsored programme to wipe their race out.Recognising it as genocide helps bring justice.

@ cry me garbage

Stop writing nonsense every single day. albanians originate from mountains around black sea (most likely present day turkey).
(Ratko,

Ratko,
You're beggining to rival sj with your supreme knowledge. Since you know so much about the origins of the Albanians why don't you enlighten me with some facts that you should have readily available, given your expert knowledge.

- When did the Albanians settle the Balkans
- What is the purpose of their arrival
- How come their language is unique and has nothing in common with Turkish languages
- How do you explain their national dress that has been documented in the Balkans for over 2,000 years.

Ratko, I don't expect a logical answer from you. So, don't bother bc your brain might overheat. You could ask sj for an assist.

Then what is your excuse.
(Smart Serb, 3 June 2016 19:29)

- I do not say, I am a Jew.
- I do not say, I am most of the time right.
- I do not say, I am smart.

I do say, someone here is a Jew.
I do say, someone here is at least 90% right.
Unfortunately, he is a very stupid Jew - and that is inexcusable.

The God - in all his wisdom cursed him to be right.

His name begins with "R".

I wonder why the Western countries’ condemnation of genocide is selective .
(Beli, 5 June 2016 19:02)

After the international community defined genocide in 1948, the UN has determined that two events were genocide beyond all reasonable doubt: Rwanda in 1994 and Srebrenica in 1995.

The Western countries have condemned them both so I'm not sure what selectivity you are talking about! Is there any other event that the UN has determined to be genocide and Western countries have not condemned?

To Rote,
I don't care what battle to believe!.
Albanians where living up to the 17 th Century as self rule in today area of Azerbaijan!.The Albanian's have not build nothing in the Balkans before 17 th Century to proof that they where living as self rule!.
In the Balkans there is presence of Greek,Macedonian,Serb,Bulgarian,and Ottoman presence before the 17 th Century.You will hear the Albanian language spoken in the Mountains of Azerbaijan,and similar custom's.

If this wasn't genocide then I don't know what is.
Shame on Turkey then and shame on Turkey!

Can someone tell me WHY the Armenian Genocide took place. The reason(s) seem to be blurred by time or covered up.

The next biggest crime in this area next to genocide is to be a stupid Jew.

Jew is a Jew, regardless of Wall Street or Dohány utca. Or Путин, По(т)рошенко, Clinton or whom-not. A Jew cannot allow him/herself to be stupid.
Even if that Jew is right 90% of the time. Stupidity for a Jew is genetically next-to-impossible, deadly sin.
(Ataman

Sarcastic much?
Jews are my neighbors, co-coworkers and friends. I'm not going to say that stupidity is genetically next to impossible for a jew, but it is rare from what I've witnessed.

The Srebrenica Genocide needs to be added into the article. 8,000 males aged between 13-60 were executed add point blank. While the females were forced from their homes in the most gruesome manner..If only the victims could rest in piece.
(Minister Frank, 3 June 2016 09:38)

Just by the way you described it, you've negated Srebrenica as genocide since the mass killing - which is what it is - targeted a specific group of people. Genocide kills everyone regardless of age or gender with the sole purpose of erasing all traces of their historical existence. That, Srebrenica was not.
(the actual truth, 3 June 2016 23:36)

You're flogging a dead horse because the UN has already established beyond reasonable doubt that some members of the VRS committed genocide in Srebrenica in 1995. That is because those thousands men and boys were killed with INTENT to destroy, in whole or in part, an ethnical group, as such.

The key element that makes the killing of members of a national, ethnical, racial or religious group genocide is the INTENT to destroy that group, in whole or in part, as such. That's how genocide is defined by the UN and what some members of the VRS did in Srebrenica in 1995 fitted that definition.

Regarding your definition of genocide, it is irrelevant because you are a nobody compared to the UN.

A lot of propaganda on this website forum by Serb haters.
(factman, 2 June 2016 22:58)

Yes, in Bosnia, 100.000 people killed in 4 years of war on all side, but to be more exact,

Bosnians: 30,521 soldiers killed, 31,583 civilians killed

Croats: 6,000 soldiers killed, 2,484 civilians killed

Ethnic Serbs 21,173 soldiers killed, 4,179 civilians

Sasa,

If you visit Kastoria than you see dozens and dozens of Albanian churches from 11th - 13th century. No one, not even Greeks or Macedonians would say, these churches are not Albanian. If you visit Novgorod or Pskov you will see a similar thing: well-off citizen groups built gazillion of churches on their own initiative.

The Albanian problem can be seen tough - and no one in sane mind does deny the obvious. The churches in Novgorod or Pskov are of much higher artistic value from both inside and outside. Because... Albanians were (and until today are) much more poor economically.

But being poor does not mean, they weren't there. Just not in Kosovo at that time and either economically totally dependent on center or just being a scavenger.

The language of Caucasian-Albanins is quite close to Ossetians by the way, has nothing to do with Albanians in Kastoria or Kosovo.

The only logical and appropriate thing to call it.

Well, if Albanians "have been silent" about Armenian genocide then why Serbia hasn`t recognized Armenian genocide either? Is it because Nikolic is a good friend of Erdogan?

Armenian genocide was indeed a genocide but recognizing Armenian genocide is politics. Armenia is a Putin ally and doesn`t recognize Kosovo. So, reciprocity is the term.

@cry-me-a-river: thank you / faleminderit, even if I am not an Armenian, at least I am not aware of it.

Regarding other commenters.

The next biggest crime in this area next to genocide is to be a stupid Jew.

Jew is a Jew, regardless of Wall Street or Dohány utca. Or Путин, По(т)рошенко, Clinton or whom-not. A Jew cannot allow him/herself to be stupid.
Even if that Jew is right 90% of the time. Stupidity for a Jew is genetically next-to-impossible, deadly sin.

i am just stating FACTS...the both the Albanian Muslims and Bosnian Muslims were Ottoman foot soldiers
(bishop, 2 June 2016 19:53)

Of course... All territories (Serbia included) that were part of the Ottoman Empire provided foot (or cavalry) soldiers to the Ottoman Empire. That was the Ottoman military system. Not sure what point you are trying to make, though!
(icj1, 3 June 2016 00:30)

the point is that the albanians and bosnian muslims accepted the ottoman occupation
(bishop, 3 June 2016 15:49)

Of course, like Serbia and the rest of the Balkans did because at that time the Ottoman Empire was a superpower. And I can't blame Serbia (and the rest of the Balkan nations for that) because the alternative was extermination... So again, I'm not sure what your point is!!!

Hope one day these great Germans will admit the genocidal massacres made against Albanians in WWI, and ask to us forgiveness, and resolve the Cham issue because the innocent victims are still screaming loud.
(Joni, 3 June 2016 14:05)

joni,
I don't wish to contradict you, but it was the Greeks that were responsible for the ethnic cleansing and massacre of the Muslim Cham Albanians.

So again, I'm not sure what your point is!!!
(icj1, 3 June 2016 16:25) # Comment

To icj1,
He means the Albanian's and Bosnjaks,changed religion from better life or sold out,and where not for their faith,instead for Ottoman rule.
They where keen to fight for Ottoman Empire,instead against it and for freedom,self rule.

@icj
you don't understand my point? re read your last copy and paste rant for something which is not clear at all. my point is VERY simple; Albanians and Muslims in Bosnia (the people) view the Turks as brothers and have willingly supported the turk genocide denial and the jerk genocide of kurds in turkey as well...funny how the albos and turks refuse to give the kurds in turkey independence yet they want it for albos in kosovo...pathetic...

Regarding your definition of genocide, it is irrelevant because you are a nobody compared to the UN.
(icj1, 4 June 2016 04:43)

Newsflash: the UN did not recognize Srebrenica as genocide because of Russia's veto against this overly political decision. The definition of genocide is the ACTUAL destruction of a people and the physical removal of their presence from an area, not just the INTENT. If intent were included, half the people on this site would be guilty of genocide because of what they say, feel, and believe. That's why genocide counts for events like the Holocaust, the Armenian Genocide, and Rwanda even though it's thrown around like a buzzword in the Balkans for every little crime.

Srebrenica is mass killing and a crime against humanity because this type of violence happened in one area, not across Bosnia, and women and young children were allowed to leave, making the targets specific. So sorry, Genocide covers everyone, not a selected group. More appropriately, Croatia can and should be accused of genocide of Serbs, Jews and Roma under the NDH.

The UN doesn't recognize Srebrenica as genocide. Try doing some research the next time you want to sound smart.

Sarcastic much?
but it is rare from what I've witnessed.
(cry me a river, 3 June 2016 20:04)

Rare, indeed - but not impossible. A stupid Jew, in particular if with more power than deserved is a major curse to the colleagues. I know one CEO. She should be ashamed.
I our case here luckily it's merely a blogger and a (retired?) teacher, not a CEO.

Wish him luck and more sensibility. While being at least 90% right (in disagreement with Village-Bey who gave him 100% approval instead of my 90%) the "missing" 10% is crucial how he turns potential allies into enemies. And that is stupid to say the least.

Im an Albanian but not a muslim, I'm an atheist but this was Genocide and it must be recognized as so

YOu must not be talking about Rote.
(cry me a river, 5 June 2016 16:04)

1) Would you EVER think, the A-Kosovar Village-Bey would give Rote 100% approval and myself in 90% agreement with Village-Bey a 90%?

2) I never looked inside of Rote's pants but I silently assumed, Rote is not a Jew (being wrong or right). Simply because Rote never associated himself with Jewry in any form.

3) The "R" in question (who according Village-Bey is 100% right and according me "merely" to 90%) is boosting on nearly every occasion that he is a Jew.

Because of his style to make enemies and pretend to be more important than he is (yeah, he knows Kurti, Thaçi, Dodik, et-cetera-et-cetera in person while not even driving a single mile in Serbia because he does not have a driver's license) - the 10% where is is actually is not right negates everything and makes him ridiculous.

Probably the most ridiculous was when he (as a Jew!) openly celebrated here as Saudi Arabia recognized Kosovo, for victory of democracy.

I have to say that I know exactly that neither Iran nor North Korea does recognize Kosovo... but I am not really celebrating such "allies". I pray that "R" keeps his mouth shut, the more he does, the better for his own cause.

Rote, the Armenians were pro-Russian because they lived under the evil rules of the Ottoman Empire and were treated a second class citizens because they didn't want to live under the primitive rules of Islam. The Turks had already massacred thousands of Armenians in the 1890s.

The Turks wanted rid of the Armenians dead as they were a successful business people and were scared that they would leave their crumbling empire.

If you think those two facts are enough reason to wipe out over a million people then you should go and join IS.

The next biggest crime in this area next to genocide is to be a stupid Jew.

Jew is a Jew, regardless of Wall Street or Dohány utca. Or Путин, По(т)рошенко, Clinton or whom-not. A Jew cannot allow him/herself to be stupid.
Even if that Jew is right 90% of the time. Stupidity for a Jew is genetically next-to-impossible, deadly sin.
(Ataman, 3 June 2016 02:13)

Then what is your excuse.

I wonder why the Western countries’ condemnation of genocide is selective . During World War I (1914-1918), the Ottoman Empire committed genocide to million to 1,5 million Armenian citizens in eastern Anatolia.Nazi Germany committed genocide during World War II, killing 5 to 6 million Jews, about 500,000 Roma, and millions of other people in German territory. The International Convention of Genocide does not refer to the period before 20th century, as the extermination of native Indians having been committed by the American settlers over the time they disembarked the Mayflower to the the end of 19th century. The International Convention has not affected Croatia, either. The independent state of Croatia committed genocide during World War II, killing 600,000 to 700,000 Serbian citizens. No widespread international condemnation has been passed. About 500.000 Serbs were killed by Croatian ustashas in the concentration camps. There is a lot of evidence to substantiate this claim. Simon Wiesenthal’s institute confirmed the claim,too.Croats are being lulled into believing that no burden of the infamous past will ever come into broad daylight. The point here is that the Croatian officials are trying to revise history and rehabilitate fascist-ustasha Croatia of the period 1941 -1945. The new EU member ,Croatia, has not made any atonement for the atrocities having inflicted to Serbs in the World War Two. Today they cry out war whoops : Hang Serbs on the willows.

-Wow you dont even know your own history. Ottoman empire conquered us in the 14th century, not the 17th century. Did you already forgot about the lost battle 1389??? What do you think was it about?

You are literally the least informed person I`ve ever came across.
(Gjon Marku, 4 June 2016

To Gjon,
I never mention that ,I mention Albania in Azerbaijan was conquered in the 17 th Century by the Ottomans and the Albanian's brought across to the Balkans after that period.You find your DNA in Azerbaijan.
About ,Serbia history don't worry about 1389. We, Serb's have ,Building's to proof that we been living in the Balkans!.Worry about your Albanian existences ,that has no proof beyond 17 th Century in the Balkans,and give me proof with a building ,or bridge that you Albanian's build before the 16 th Century!!!.

@cry-me-a-river

A bit thinking... I can say that Szemi is the total opposition of Roberto.

While Szemi is about 90% wrong about everything, the remaining 10% kind of makes up for the rest and elevates him.

On the other side, poor Roberto is to 90% right - but the remaining 10% is a total disaster.

The point icj1 is as follows:

Yes, everyone had to more or less fall in line, but some of us were a little more accommodating than others to the Ottomans.

1. Some of us changed our religion and culture in order to gain economic favor and cheaper taxes -- and some of us did not.

2. Some of us never fought back and just accepted it --- and some of us staged rebellion after rebellion across the centuries and didn't accept it.

Serbs were of the second category. They went along with one hand, and staged rebellion with the other.

The point icj1 is as follows:

Yes, everyone had to more or less fall in line, but some of us were a little more accommodating than others to the Ottomans.
(factman, 7 June 2016 21:30)

I don't think any of us was accommodating to the Ottomans (whether less or more) unless any of us is more than 100 years old.
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1. Some of us changed our religion and culture in order to gain economic favor and cheaper taxes -- and some of us did not.
(factman, 7 June 2016 21:30)

I'm not sure any of us has been lucky to live in a country that charges different tax rates depending on religion. But if I were lucky enough to live in such a country, I'd certainly follow the religion for which the tax rate is the lowest. I'm not an idiot to pay my hard earned money for having the "privilege" of praying in a different way to something that does not exist.
----------

2. Some of us never fought back and just accepted it --- and some of us staged rebellion after rebellion across the centuries and didn't accept it.
(factman, 7 June 2016 21:30)

I don't think any of us has a chance to accept or rebel to the Ottomans, unless any of us is more than 100 years old.
----------

Serbs were of the second category. They went along with one hand, and staged rebellion with the other.
(factman, 7 June 2016 21:30)

Of course, Serbs, like the rest of the Balkans people were in the second category. I did not say anything to the contrary.