Hague Tribunal finds Seselj not guilty on all charges

The Seselj case has been an embarrassment for the ICTY from beginning to end.

This 'humanitarian law' made on the fly, as pioneered by the ICTY, shows how ambitious prosecutors have been allowed to run riot with all sorts of new and made up legal concepts, simply to serve the purpose to get a conviction (Joint Criminal Enterprise for example) or remove someone from public life through and indictment for years and years before coming to trial.

The ICTY has also arbitrarily ignored a fundamental tenet of criminal law - that everyone is has the right to a timely trial.

The ICTY has shown how it mocks balance, impartiality, fundamental tenets, a basic standard of actual evidence rather than inferred or interpreted evidence and practice of law, all so that a victor's justice can be applied. But that is what is what kangaroo courts are for.

He turned that court upside down ! Bravo Mr Seselj Serbia needs intelligent leaders like yourself!

Give me a break, makes me sick to see all you muslims come on here crying. when your criminals all got released, oric and haradanj who committed real crimes, actually killed people and intimidated witnesses after. I think enough Serbs have been indicted, but the issue remains, who from your side? until that is addressed, this will not be the same. today seselj showed this court is a damn joke, and of all people you muslims shld not be talk ij ng as your killers still loom out there. get a life and find a new site to rant on..makes me sick listening to you

woohoo! Great job! I'm sure some drug-organ dealers here, aka Albos are very happy indeed LMAO :)

Yawn.

Can we get past this and start growing the economy, creating jobs, and making money?

Perhaps we should all head to the streets and have a big party like our neighbouring Croatians do.

Then why did it take 13 years of keeping him to find that out? Seselj was a mouth-piece, he talked rhetoric but committed no war crimes. This was a plain as day. The ICTY is the most incompetent tribunal in the history of international law. When will they ever get around to convicting those responsible for murdering Serb civilians during the war? Or the ethnic cleansing of a quarter million Serbs from Croatia or 100k from Sarajevo or 200k from Kosovo-Metohija?

Before I forget...

So, what of Tomislav Mercep? He went on the rampage with his boys around Vukovar before the fighting broke out and was 'investigated' a couple of times by the ICTY but never indicted.

Why do I bring Mercep up? He was a Croatian neo-Ustasa 'politician' and paramilitary 'leader', but contrary to the level of evidence available in Seselj's trial (nowhere near the acceptable minimum legal standard) , the evidence against Mercep is far substantial yet it is Seselj who spent years in the Hauge's jail and not Mercep.

They claimed on each occasion 'lack of evidence'!

That is one very clear example of why the ICTY is an absolute fu*&£jng joke. It's a bloody self-tying pretzel!

I thought this was a kangaroo court that finds Serbs guilty no matter what?

Don’t be fooled by this verdict. The Hague Tribunal is a tool of the NATO west and everything it does is carefully considered. This “judgement” has nothing to do with evidence or a proper legal process. The Hague Tribunal is not a legal body; it is a propaganda tool. It uses its indictments and judgements to condemn those who dare challenge to power of the western elite. All Serbian leaders have now been brought before this NATO court and only one has been acquitted. Since Dr Seselj is sick with cancer and his political role in Serbia has been reduced to virtual insignificance, then the western power elite have little to fear by releasing him, and they have much to gain. Now they can say that they are fair and reasonable. Serbs who are rotting in western dungeons were, according to the Hague Tribunal, fairly convicted. We can expect General Mladic to get a sentence similar to Dr Karadzic, and no one in the so-called “free” western press will protest because the Tribunal has proved, by the Seselj verdict, that it is truly impartial.

Well, when the ICTY basically gave up trying to get Seselj to return to the dock and essentially said it was OK for him to watch the verdict on television from Serbia, it was pretty clear the verdict would either be not guilty or guilty with time served. Considering Gotovina and others walked with far more egregious crimes attached to their legacies, it's hardly possible to find guilt with Seselj.

@ mike
No, I don’t think he turned the court upside down!
He turn the pressure on Serbian politicians involved in war crimes - upside down!
Serbian state did not give to Hague the proofs to convict him – because he could take with him a lot of other war criminals which still are in the head of Serbian state. I hope the new Serbian generation would be able to open the "war files", but i know that we should wait the death of old one.
(Joni, 31 March 2016 14:52)

Your Shqipire's and Bosnjak's, should open your files,and look at your own backyard ,for the crimes in both 1940's (Ustashi, Balli Kombetar) and 1990's (Green Armay ,KLA ).Alest we Serb's aren't crossing borders and attacking police and innocent people in the 2015's (Kumanovo City,Macedonia)
P's Was that one of your Shqipire's family BLOOD FUEDING,with poor Kumanovo City ,People!.

Cangaroo court they say, NATO court they say. How is this possible? Are they wrong?
(Reader, 31 March 2016 15:34)

Learn how to spell, of course it's a kangaroo court, Seselj could not be convicted as a "JCE" because he was never part of the Serbian, Bosnian or any other government during the war. That is why this is a political court, not a judiciary court.

This is a major embarrassment for the prosecution. They couldn't make their case and in the meanwhile had to put up with his abuse. I don't like the man. I don't like his principles but he is loyal to them. Unlike some others from that period.

This is to good to be true. By sabotaging the court and prolonging the process he already spent 12yrs in prison. He basically imprisoned himself. What an Idiot. Have fun serbs. You have to live with Goebbels.

Next Mladic!

Tread with caution, the NATO court is not our friend. I went to Seselj's latest march and it was huge. He said all the right things - anti-NATO, anti-EU, anti-Vucic and anti-Nikolic.

I find it suspicious that they would announce this just before elections. His popularity will only increase. So what is the purpose? Are the rumours true? Will Seselj form a government with Vucic? Will they then have the numbers to change the constitution?

Voters are constantly being deceived! I suppose we can only wait until after the elections. The appeal has been launched so if Seselj has made an agreement, the NATO court can still reverse the decision if he doesn't commit.

Ned Taylor said:

"Those who lambasted the Hague court only last week are now praising its common sense and decency."
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Not so. The court has just proved how corrupt they are.
Anyone else found not innocent spent so much time behind bars from the other side?
They imprisoned an innocent man for over a decade. You call this decency?
If the court had any decency they wouldn't be holding him prisoner for so long without some sort of a verdict.

I have said all along in this case and others that justice is the process not the verdict. Seselj has quite literally faced justice and has been found not guilty. There needs to be some consistency from those who comment on ICTY verdicts. If a man is found not guilty he has to be treated that way irrespective of personal feelings. That means Gotovina, Haradinaj, Oric and now Seselj. It serves no purpose either in the moment or for future reconciliation to believe that all of 'your' people are innocent freedom fighters whilst everyone else is a terrorist, mass murderer or rapist. Those who lambasted the Hague court only last week are now praising its common sense and decency. There will be conspiracy theories by the bucket load, this is the Balkans after all but ultimately the evidence, such as it is, is put before the court and it makes a ruling after assessing that evidence. The idea that outside actors are continually leaning on the judges to make this or that ruling might make those putting it forward feel better but it takes the process nowhere. It is rare that those who have only been on remand as opposed to having served time are successful in winning damages but Mr Seselj has proved a thorn in the side of Hague administrators for 12 years and isn't likely to go away now. I expect a full and speedy recovery from his illness in the near future too.

That means Gotovina, Haradinaj, Oric and now Seselj.
(ned taylor, 31 March 2016 15:13) # Comment link

Your comparisons are flawed again, what does it take for you to actually understand the political implications? Gotovina, Haradinaj and Oric had command and control of armies and inflicted atrocities on civilians, they were not convicted. General Pavkovic, General Lazerovic, General Tohimar, General Ratko Mladic also had command and control and were convicted. Do you not see a problem? The Joint Criminal Enterprise precedent is not equal across the board, therefore call this court what it is , political, nothing more.

As for Seselj, he was never part of the Serbian government, no command and control, was involved with "White Eagles" organization there was no proof he had command and control of paramilitary force.

Just after they convict Karadzic and give him 40 years in prison. Is this meant to appease us somehow?
If it is then what happens now? Do we fall for this? Who is going to bring back the years he spent in jail?
I am glad that he was found not guilty but I don't trust this court at all. They are up to something.

Here is Seselj's defence in a nutshell -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCCMFHvVVA4

The Serbian Nelson Mandela ,is free ,finally.

Lets see now the serb clowns making this political.

This is impossible. Our friends Amnesty Yugoslavia, Jugoslavia, Leonidas, sj, and many others have repeatedly assured us many times that The Hague is out to get Serbs. Cangaroo court they say, NATO court they say. How is this possible? Are they wrong?
(Reader

Reader/EU Citizen/icj1

I will refer you to Michael Thomas's posting which is a very good description of the machinations of the court.My advice to Serbian people is "not to be fooled by this verdict".

. However he is free and time to move on, though I am sure some new conspiracy theory will start soon here as to how he is only free because of some secret US plan to destory Serbia.
(Dwight, 31 March 2016 16:06)
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I wouldn't put it past them.
Still, it does uphold our statements that the court is rubbish. He just spent many years in prison for what? How can this be allowed to happen? Justice should be swift not dragged out so that even if found not guilty he has spent a good chunk of his life in prison.
Anyone else from the other side spent that much time in prison without a conviction?

How about that!

Thank God!!! And I hope and pray that Dr. Seselj will also be compensated, and that other innocent people, such as Dr. Karadzic' will be released and compensated, please God. And I would also like to mention that the reason Dr. Seselj was indicted at the first place was Djindjic''s request to Kurva Del Ponte, to "take Seselj and not to give him back": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipezkF43RGA

Isn’t that special, throwing Serbs a bone like that, are we good little doggies? Please master may I have another?

Is this a check mate move?

Now on one side you have Genocide in Bosnia by Karadjic and Not Guilty for Seselj, hard to say oh this court will judge just Serbs so either its correct or not.

But will he be a rope around Vucic neck, a way to keep him under control?

well, even I don't like the verdict and think it is wrong, it still is a court ruling from a democatic court and has to accepted like that. But if you read a bit into the ruling it still doesn't mean that Serbia get away untarnished. The verdict also states that Seselj's men, his killer brigade, got direct orders from the serb controlled military. The court doesn't deny that these killings, war crimes didn't happen, they happened, and Serbia is responsible for it. It all falls back on Serbia again, and the entire world blames Serbia for those crimes anyway, no matter what some dumb warmongering serb chetnics claim here. Serbia is associated with these war crimes, with the genocide committed in the Balkans forever, just like Germany will always be associated with the Nazi's, even that country learned, and has nothing to do with its horrible past any longer. The same can not be said about Serbia.

Seselj ,the Serbian Nelson Mandela ,is free,finally.

YEAAAA the hero Is free !!!!! lets move on and have a huge celebration for the man!!!

That should have been the verdict of Karadzic as well !.

Arn.Sweden.

So the final prove he made a deal with serb gov to be controlled opposition leader in exchange for his freedom. They all sold out from a-z but Serbs dont get it. They rather follow their flag burning conman or their conman in gov. They all have skeletons in their closet from their past, Vucic Nikolic and Seselj all of them, just the old team. All of them are blackmailed. NATO/US has got them by the balls. But again don't expect the average Serb to get it. Many of them are just too primitive in heir thinking and those with brains are too few and too powerless to change anything for the better in their country. So they will end up following the pied pipers into the abyss either Vucic or their fake opposition conmans.

@ mike
No, I don’t think he turned the court upside down!
He turn the pressure on Serbian politicians involved in war crimes - upside down!
Serbian state did not give to Hague the proofs to convict him – because he could take with him a lot of other war criminals which still are in the head of Serbian state. I hope the new Serbian generation would be able to open the "war files", but i know that we should wait the death of old one.

Found not guilty. Fair enough, but I can't help thinking that the judgement will only enhance this odious little mans popularity.

By their own admission the Tribunal didn't have the evidence to convict him, but they kept him in jail for more than 11 years! Then they sat on the verdict for another four years after the trial ended. If you look up "kangaroo Court" in the dictionary, there should be a picture of the Hague Tribunal. What a joke. At this point, the ICTY's credibility is less than zero.

Isn’t that special, throwing Serbs a bone like that, are we good little doggies? Please master may I have another?
(The Driver, 31 March 2016 17:13)

To Driver,
Who throw Serbia a bone?,the Russian's investing and helping the infrastructure with the expanding of Rail and medical equipment?, OR The China, investing in the highway's ,corridors?, OR The UAE refinancing our loan with interest free loan,and investing in farming and Belgrade on water project ?. OR EU ,OR Belarus ?.
Alot of bones have been thrown to us.
P'S you wish your Shqipire's or Bosnjak's where thrown a small little bone in the future, LOL!!,they (Shqipire and Bosnjaks) look like starving Street dog's!.

(Reader, 1 April 2016 19:32) Either the Hague worked well with both of them or it didn't. Which will it be? Either the Hague is corrupt or not. Either it is incompetent or not. For both Seselj and Karadzic. Either they are out to get the Serbs or not.
---

The ICTY is corrupt.
The ICTY is incompetent...for everyone.

Just watched Weight of Chains 2. Great documentary. It even has Carla del Ponte admitting that the NATO court makes political decisions.

This is impossible. Our friends Amnesty Yugoslavia, Jugoslavia, Leonidas, sj, and many others have repeatedly assured us many times that The Hague is out to get Serbs. Cangaroo court they say, NATO court they say. How is this possible? Are they wrong?

Here are some facts

He did not command any troops and he never fired a weapon.

It took 12 years to realize this?

Or did it take so long because it knew it could not convict... but still wanted to punish?

If you answer the first, then you are incompetent.

If you answer the second, then you are guilty of not delivering the accused his right to a speedy trial.

A banana court.

Here is fascist Seselj with [link] Sadam his sick criminal hero.
(Lenard, 1 April 2016 09:36) # Comm

When I went to USA Embassy,in London.My son took a photo of myself in front of the picture's of George Washington and Ronald Reagan.
So I am best friend's, buddies and ,pal's with George Washington and Ronald Reagan in your eye's !!.What a idiot you are !.
Regard's from George Washington and Ronald Reagan great friend.
P's I have photos in front of their pictures with myself to proof it, Lol,Lol!.
Long live ,Serbian Nelson Mandela !

Isn’t that special, throwing Serbs a bone like that, are we good little doggies? Please master may I have another?
(The Driver, 31 March 2016 17:13)

To Driver,
Who throw Serbia a bone?,the Russian's investing and helping the infrastructure with the expanding of Rail and medical equipment?, OR The China, investing in the highway's ,corridors?, OR The UAE refinancing our loan with interest free loan,and investing in farming and Belgrade on water project ?. OR EU ,OR Belarus ?.
Alot of bones have been thrown to us.
P'S you wish your Shqipire's or Bosnjak's where thrown a small little bone in the future, LOL!!.

it is disgusting what the serb national front is posting here, and it shows again that Serbia still is a fascist country. No matter if that war criminal was aquitted today, anwhere in the civilized world he is seen as war criminal, and this verdict and the serb reaction to it is damaging Serbia even more than if they had send him to prison. Read what the rest of the world thinks about it, read the papers in the US, Britain, Germany, anywhere and you will see it for yourself. It brings back the memory of what Serbia did during the 90's wars. All the killings, rapes, war crimes, the genocide, all the negative memories. The reaction of the serb public certainly doesn't help either, and everybody in the West sees it, condemns it. The only friends you have left in the world is fascist Putin-Russia. Go with them, nobody wants a country like yours. Serbia is a pariah state again

Seems like americas influence over the court is gone. When normal people decide, serbs are innocent.

Jugoslavija: Not for the first time you have chosen to misunderstand my comments. The four people selected were not chosen because they were indicted for similar offences but because a) they were all found not guilty (eventually) and b) they represent four different groups; Kosovo Albanian, Serb, Croat and Bosnian Muslim. The cries of "all ours are innocent all yours are guilty" which I have read over the years on here simply don't wash.
(ned taylor, 31 March 2016 19:16)

I understand you very well and the ICTY is not even close to a judiciary court of law, it is a political banana court of law. The precedents do not equally apply to all the parties during the Yugoslavia civil war. That's what happens when the so called international community involves itself in a civil war. The proof is there for everyone to see including yourself. Not one high level General of the Croatian, Bosnia`n Muslims or Albanian KLA were convicted of the "Joint Criminal Enterprise" charge even though they were responsible for the largest ethnic cleansing crimes of Serbs in Krajina and Kosovo. The indictments for the Croatian Generals of Gotovina and Mercep were clearly political as the levity of their crimes are no different then Serbian Generals Kadijevic, Lazerevic, Pavkovic, Ojdanic, and Mladic. The same goes at the highest levels of leadership of Izetbegovic, Tudjman and Milosevic.

Sasa, Seselj gave himself up to spread propaganda. He would have found some other way to get attention. Nazis tried to use this tactic at Nuremberg as well. Hagua officials simply thought that it would be easy to convict him because he was a leader of an ultra right wing party. You are right, they should have not given your chetnik hero a platform to spread hate, instead they should have hunted his eagels one by one and ripped their wings off. The fact that Radical party was such a force in Serbian politics even after this guy went to the Hague says a lot.
(politicsornot, 2 April 2016 11:34)

As an American with a Serb mother, I will add that Seselj wasn't Serbia's president. He led a radical party. So, it says very little about Serbs. Second, look who's the leading candidate for president in the United States. Does Donald Trump's lead say a lot about Americans? Your comment is really stupid. This is called an ecological fallacy, since you are trying to paint a picture of everyone based on one small segment of the population. I'm honestly sick of the prejudice against Serbs. In the old days (Balkan wars), the same people who pretend to be good human beings did nothing but prejudice all Serbs, so that an old woman selling fruit at a market was as guilty of war crimes as a soldier. That doesn't fly any more bro, at least among the intelligencia, among whom you clearly are not.

(icj1, 1 April 2016 01:11)

Fact: From 2003 to 2007, inclusively, the ICTY obstructed proceedings by repeatedly changing the indictment.
(Amnesty Yugoslavia, 1 April 2016 13:20)

(icj1, 3 April 2016 23:38) Assuming that is so, feel free to credit those 4 years against the 4 years and 9 months of convictions that Seselj has already receive.

---

The ICTY circus record shows the indictment changed multiple times after he surrendered and before the start of his trial. Why do you have to "assume"?

If we are assuming, then perhaps we should also assume that his 4 year and 9 month conviction were also a laughable demonstration of ICTY farce as most reputable judiciaries don't routinely invoke the use of hooded witnesses.

I wonder : the today Serbian government is so open minded to open “war crime files”? Did she give all the proofs to the Hague Tribunal - or the innocent victims should wait for 50 years that those files could be opened?

Like Oric, I suspect he is innocent for lack of evidence rather than not doing the crime, howevever it gives lie what you hear on this noticeboard of only Serbs being found guilty and others going free. However he is free and time to move on, though I am sure some new conspiracy theory will start soon here as to how he is only free because of some secret US plan to destory Serbia.

Zoran

From the very beginning I was suspicious against Vucic because the USA betrayed Tadic too easily. Usually when their candidate loses elections they immediately find violations. But this time all were happy.

Another thing that surprised me was the step to the shadow Toma did soon after the elections. He just became a pensioner.

Today Seselj is the most preferable candidate for Russia and it’s not only my opinion. We are tired of the Serbs trying to sit on two chairs with one ass. If you want to win a lottery you have to buy a ticket at least.

Zoran please tell me what does your name mean. You know that most often Slav names have some meaning. Zoran is a wide spread name in former Yugoslavia and we have an alike name ЗОРЯН that means SUNRISE MAN. Is it the same name or not?

One more question Kosovo field in Russian sounds as Haymaking Field. Does it have the same meaning in Serbian? At least it sounds very Russian while the battle of 1389 had very tragic sequences for the ruling Rurikovici dynasty while Niemanici were a branch of theirs.

"Presiding Judge Jean Claude Antonetti said the Hague Prosecution failed to present enough legal arguments to supports its allegation that Seselj committed crimes against humanity."

Which is to say there was no evidence against him. Which is kind of peculiar, because when Serbs are usually being charged in the Hague, lack of evidence is proof of guilt.

I guess they thought Seselj offended Serbs more being out of jail than in.

They could be wrong about that.

it is disgusting what the serb national front is posting here, and it shows again that Serbia still is a fascist country.
(obserer, 31 March 2016 23:40)

As opposed to Croatia celebrating the acquittal on appeal of Ante Gotovina where full concerts, parades, and elected officials welcomed a "hero" back?

Or Ramush Haradinaj being released on lack of evidence and coming back to Kosovo with wild ovations?

Stop being hypocritically surprised at something others in the region were far worse in doing.

They imprisoned an innocent man for over a decade. You call this decency?
(Peggy, 31 March 2016 22:55)
--
Lets not forget that they destroyed his political party in the process. The SRS was getting over 40% of the vote.

Here is fascist Seselj with https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/un-court-acquits-serb-ultranationalist-seselj-of-charges/2016/03/31/73b50712-f725-11e5-958d-d038dac6e718_story.html Sadam his sick criminal hero.

Anybody who calls or sees this man as a hero is a fascist.

The Serbian Nelson Mandela ,is free ,finally.
(sasa.p from Jagodina, Serbia, 31 March 2016 16:50)

Let's see if he gets elected and get carried out of the Serbian parliament for not observing protocol.

This only confirms that Serbia is light years away from joining the EU. I am surprised you are not the least ashamed to admit this. I suppose Serbia can always try to join Russia if they'll have her.
(EU Citizen, 31 March 2016 22:20)
--
??? I'm not sure I understand your point? I hope Serbia never joins the EU. Ne u NATO, ne u EU. That is gathering quite a bit of momentum in Serbia.

Exactly. It's a shame that you were not around to tell that to Seselj in 2003. He might have listened to you and not drag out the proceedings (even though that was certainly his right to do, but unfortunately for him it backfired).
(icj1, 1 April 2016 01:11)

There you have it our resident AI has spoken. I’m surprised it has not been called to the bar (probably leaning on one now) to wear the black robes on the Tribunal since its legal practice has the three donkeys seal of quality.

Yes, blind apologists are incapable of deductive reasoning, so you may wish to return to your source and inform them of the inconsistency in their propaganda about who obstructed proceedings.
(Amnesty Yugoslavia, 1 April 2016 13:20)
--
Here is Seselj himself complaining about the length of his trial after 7 years. Check -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bM_es_sScjw

"No one is more hated than he who speaks the truth" - Plato

No Peggy I don't call this decency. If you read what I wrote it says that OTHERS are referring to the common sense and decency of the Hague Court NOT that I believe this is how they carry on. A man is only guilty or innocent when the verdict is announced so it is inaccurate to say that they detained an innocent man. They detained an accused man.
(ned taylor, 1 April 2016 14:52)
========================
So in other words you can spend a decade in jail just by being accused?
Justice delayed is justice denied.
You spend that long in jail and then come back and tell us how it's all fine.

Sasa, Seselj gave himself up to spread propaganda. He would have found some other way to get attention. Nazis tried to use this tactic at Nuremberg as well. Hagua officials simply thought that it would be easy to convict him because he was a leader of an ultra right wing party. You are right, they should have not given your chetnik hero a platform to spread hate, instead they should have hunted his eagels one by one and ripped their wings off. The fact that Radical party was such a force in Serbian politics even after this guy went to the Hague says a lot.
(politicsornot, 2 April 2016 11:34) # Comment link

To politivsornot,
First ,Seselj handed himself in to Hague.
Second ,the Radical Party of Serbia where willing to put bond money up for his BAIL,and release from detention.
Third, Radical Party would have paid for his living arrangements in ,Brussels while he goes to court when required.
Note:it doesn't matter what is his feelings towards other countries, he is only accused,and not proven Guilty.
Most of all,Seselj was NO risk flight OR of running away,from court!!.
P's Now with all this comments of mine,Show me the money.!

Factcheck wrote:

"...anyone who thinks that he wasn't control of the military operations of his party or they were just defending civilians, is an idiot."

##

Unable to be proven. Therefore not guilty.

Conclusion: The Banana Court remains a banana court. In Scenario A they are incompetent and in Scenario B they are guilty of not providing speedy trial and should be sued. Oh wait.... I forgot. They can't be sued according to their own rules. They are "above the law."

PS: I am not a Seselj supporter.

Assuming that is so, feel free to credit those 4 years against the 4 years and 9 months of convictions that Seselj has already received.

(icj1, 3 April 2016 23:38) Btw, you forgot to mention the dozens of motions filed by Seselj that the Court had to review and decide. Don't get me wrong; Seselj did not harm anybody by filing those motions. It was his right to exploit every possible venue and file those motions, as it was his right to have the Court carefully review all of his motions, regardless of how frivolous they were.
---
BTW you forgot to mention motions and machinations from the OTP that in collusion with the biased court delayed the start of the trial. For one: Why did they both falsely refuse to recognize his right to self representation for four years.?

It is laughable how some people try to blame Seselj for the delays in his trial. He could have extended it for years had he chosen to put up a defence but he did not. The indictment was rewritten multiple times so one wonder what evidence they actually had. It just goes to show the political nature of this farce.

They were keeping Seselj out of Serbian politics and destroyed his political party, which they achieved for over a decade.

Seselj himself summarises this nicely here -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bM_es_sScjw

It really is the same old BS coming from the other side. Serbians are to blame for everything while the rest are all innocent. LOL!

Is this because of what those few muslims did, than again chetniks were always favorites of the west. I suppose no cries from Croatia, since most of his victims were muslims after all. This guy can now go free, rant about 'traditional serbian and western friendship' for the next five years using WW1 as an excuse and finally maybe start another war.

@American In Nis:

Why the damn sarcasm on your part?? Don't tell me you don't know what I'm talking about.By the way just because the prosecution couldn't prove Seselj's guilt may not necessarily mean that he's innocent so for all we know the outcome for him could be different when he meets his maker.

Jugoslavija: Not for the first time you have chosen to misunderstand my comments. The four people selected were not chosen because they were indicted for similar offences but because a) they were all found not guilty (eventually) and b) they represent four different groups; Kosovo Albanian, Serb, Croat and Bosnian Muslim. The cries of "all ours are innocent all yours are guilty" which I have read over the years on here simply don't wash.

All fanatics are equally dangerous, regardless of in name of religion, nationalism, or even democracy.

This was a political decision. Kardzic gets 40 years and Seselj gets free. This means Ratko Mladic goes to jail for life.

Ned Taylor, there have been other Serbs acquitted, this isn't the first time. However, statistically speaking, the anti-Serb bias of the NATO court holds beyond a shadow of a doubt.

How many have been convicted for committing crimes against Serbs? Most Croats/Muslims have been jailed for crimes against each other and not Serbs. Also, there is still room for an appeal in Seselj's case so don't count your chickens before they hatch. Finally, why was no-one ever held responsible for NATO's crimes?

The written summaries of the verdict and dissenting opinion are a laughable conclusion to a completely corrupt process and institution. A consistent history of abhorrently decrepit standards of evidence, subjective opinions, inferences used in the absence of direct evidence , illogical and absurd reasoning... The list of contemptuous acts against justice, by the clowns at the ICTY circus, is endless.

More than 100 000 Yugoslav victims of all ethnicities deserved better than a farce with grotesques costs exceeding billions of dollars.

The one major outcome of ICTY's corruption was to irreversibly destroy the notion of international criminal justice.

The bombers of Medecins Sans Frontiere Hospitals and the murders of defenceless doctors and wounded patients are grateful to the ICTY's black-robe accomplices for corrupting the practice international criminal law.

The one and only true JCE may continue to sow wars and destruction in Iraq, Libya, Syria, Sudan and other condemned corners...with impunity.

The ICTY and its blind apologists celebrate this as a "mission accomplished".

One of the most revealing aspects of ICTY’s corruption of justice is seen on its web site. The homepage on March 31 and April 1 has no mention of acquittal (only that a verdict was delivered).

Similarly, the ICTY press release does not refer to acquittal in its title. The website homepage and press release titles refuse to use the term acquittal, and both have chosen to highlight the dissenting opinion.

Truly laughable that the ICTY is ashamed of its own judgments!!!

Such bias may be pleasing to blind ICTY apologists but reputable jurists have long ago distanced themselves from such a shocking and blatant disregard for the concept justice.

No Peggy I don't call this decency. If you read what I wrote it says that OTHERS are referring to the common sense and decency of the Hague Court NOT that I believe this is how they carry on. A man is only guilty or innocent when the verdict is announced so it is inaccurate to say that they detained an innocent man. They detained an accused man.

(ned taylor, 1 April 2016 14:52) A man is only guilty or innocent when the verdict is announced

---

Ned, in most reputable judiciciaries a man is innocent until proven guilty.

(sasa.p from Jagodina, Serbia, 1 April 2016 15:02)

Those accused of serious crimes are generally not allowed out on bail, holidays or not.
It does not matter if they handed themselves in.
(Dwight, 1 April 2016 18:08)

Coming from countries ,that have Commonwealth law (Britain,Australia) and Democratic Serbia. Bail is not given to flight risk,and NO money/assests guarantee.Since Seselj show good faith by volunteer, and the law is NOT Guilty until proven Guilty. Now,it's "Show me the Money" ,for pain and suffering in detention for 12 years!!.

Sasa, Seselj gave himself up to spread propaganda. He would have found some other way to get attention. Nazis tried to use this tactic at Nuremberg as well. Hagua officials simply thought that it would be easy to convict him because he was a leader of an ultra right wing party. You are right, they should have not given your chetnik hero a platform to spread hate, instead they should have hunted his eagels one by one and ripped their wings off. The fact that Radical party was such a force in Serbian politics even after this guy went to the Hague says a lot.

Ari Gold: where is your usual "the Hague is nothing but a Kangaroo Court " nonsense talk?

Or is it that way only when its in your favor?

Everyone knows much more needs to be done....

rote, yes, similar meaning. Zora is dawn, the light before the sun rises. Zoran is the male version of the name.

Lets hope Seselj still has it in him. Check -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bM_es_sScjw

I would like to hear him state publicly that he will not form a government with Vucic. I will then vote for him.

Rote Zoran means - Well built strong handsome. I have my doubts about this Zoran. Zora means Sunrise early morning it is a girls name. With Seselj acquittal. I think God has some very interesting special surprises instore for fascist criminal Serbia.

Americans were never fully anti-serb and pro-catholic by the way. Selselj never fired a gun? So what, neither did Julius Streicher. He was a leader of a very big neo-chetnik party in Serbia with a paramilitary wing armed and supported by Milosevic government, anyone who thinks that he wasn't control of the military operations of his party or they were just defending civilians, is an idiot. Chetnik who blessed him in Chicago two years before the war was a nazi collaborator condemed to death by Yugoslavia.

Sasa.p from Jagodina; can’t you tell who your master is? Your master is who you serve. Is Serbia trying to join the Eurasian Union or the European Union? Who runs this court and for what reason? Is it belittling to be thrown a bone by the master who beats you daily and yet you wish for more?
Serbia needs a new political class maybe Seselj will be the beginning of a free Serbia, maybe more slavery is on the way, I have already chosen.
Better the grave than a slave!
(The Driver, 1 April 2016 02:13)

To driver,
Yea,you picked sitting in a Western Country ,behind a keyboard,as a So called "Grave".
Why not go and invest in your Patriotic Pristina and open your Wallet/Purse and create job's for your beloved citizens ,you love so much ,that you can't live in (Pristina).
P's not like you,I went back to live in my beloved Serbia,and invest to help my beloved family/relative's.

Paul: I find your comment contradictory. You quote the judge saying that there was insufficient evidence and then conclude from this that there was in fact no evidence. Many cases are finely balanced and it is not the case that all those who walk free do so because there is no evidence against them. They often do so because whatever evidence there is does not support a guilty verdict and that was the judgement in this case. War crimes are pretty much the worst thing that a person can be accused of and therefore the thresh hold for proof is necessarily high. The prosecution failed to prove its case and therefore the correct verdict was not guilty.

Who is the other side?

I dont know if anyone from Yugoslavia spent longer. I do think it was too long for a trial but there were mitigating factors, Seseljs own stalling and intimidation of witnesses including releasing the names of witesses in protection programs, also having one long-term judge removed. SOme of the time he spent there was under sentence for contempt. However you cannot have a limit on the length of trial becasue that only encourages this behaviour
(Dwight, 1 April 2016 11:35)

No Dwight,
Hague Court's, should have him not staying in jail,since he volunteer himself. When the court's where on holidays, Seselj should have been allowed to enjoy his holidays. Had he stayed in private accommodation ,and had freedom (eg Bail),think's would be different right now from Hague, instead a law suit to follow ,for detaining a non convicted volunteer!.
P's how much do you think 12 years cost a leader of a powerful party in year 2003!!.

(ned taylor, 2 April 2016 21:33) the constant delaying tactics of the defendant meant that what could have been a much shorter process took more than a decade.
---
Ned, all the written evidence and trial documents overwhelmingly demonstrate that the OTP and ICTY obstructed the initiation of the trial. The ICTY changed the indictment multiple times over a four year period after the accused voluntarily surrendered. At the same time, The ICTY falsely refused to recognize the defendants right to self-representation for more than four years. The OTP used more than four years to present their case. The defendant used exactly 0 yrs 0 months 0 days, 0 hours, 0 minutes 0 seconds to present the defense case. Ned, you may wish to assess the facts before making false and unsubstantiated statements.

Anybody who calls or sees this man as a hero is a fascist.
(Observer, 1 April 2016 23:37)
========================
According to you.

If he isn`t a war criminal, then he is a hero. If he is a war hero why not elected as PM or President?

But, maybe he should hurry up. You know, some guys don`t live too long.

Slobo, Gojko, Tudjman, Izetbegovic, Rugova...all dead. Natural causes.

Well, who could say for sure that Dr. Sesejl won`t have an accident caused by natural bad weather during a flight?

I read with caution, the NATO court is not our friend. I went to Seselj's latest march and it was huge. He said all the right things - anti-NATO, anti-EU, anti-Vucic and anti-Nikolic.
(Zoran, 31 March 2016 18:43)

This only confirms that Serbia is light years away from joining the EU. I am surprised you are not the least ashamed to admit this. I suppose Serbia can always try to join Russia if they'll have her.

If the court had any decency they wouldn't be holding him prisoner for so long without some sort of a verdict.
(Peggy, 31 March 2016 22:55)

He has had 3 verdicts convicting him already, dear, so some of the time in prison was to serve those sentences.

I miss the warm and cozy feeling inside myself after the verdict.
Yes, the 8000+ dead in Srebrenica are most likely a huge over-estimate, the correct numbers are probably in 3000 range.

IMO, having 'merely' 4 dead civilians on your 'account' does justify a 40 year sentence.

How about that?

Yes, the Hague court is a disgrace. It is indeed a kangaroo court and they proved it on many occasions. Regardless, in an ideal case Seselj would get a 10 year sentence in a Serbian court.

Sitting next to Thaçi and Izetbegovic Jr. for the next 10 years.
Izetbegovic Sr., Jeltsin and (ass)Holebroke can't be sentenced anymore, they have their fireproof suits and a little Dante book in hand already). The Clintons are in-line for that treatment.

Please realize, these people destroy our life. At least a little good to be said about Clintons is that they were / are more-less OK for the economy. Otherwise evil as the rest of the gang.

And don't feel warm and cozy about Put In either. The sooner he and his criminal buddies are gone, the better.

Please help me to name a single politician who in last 40 years was good for both politics (not Pinochet!) and economy (not Carter, not Gorby!)

Anyone else from the other side spent that much time in prison without a conviction?
(Peggy, 31 March 2016 22:50)

Who is the other side?

I dont know if anyone from Yugoslavia spent longer. I do think it was too long for a trial but there were mitigating factors, Seseljs own stalling and intimidation of witnesses including releasing the names of witesses in protection programs, also having one long-term judge removed. SOme of the time he spent there was under sentence for contempt. However you cannot have a limit on the length of trial becasue that only encourages this behaviour

Appease you? There is that delusion of Serbian grandeur. What were you 'brave strong serbs' going to do, if they didn't 'appease you' by letting him go. Karadzic is where he belong and will only see the light of day behind bars or excersize on the yard.

(icj1, 1 April 2016 01:11) Exactly. It's a shame that you were not around to tell that to Seselj in 2003. He might have listened to you and not drag out the proceedings (even though that was certainly his right to do, but unfortunately for him it backfired).
---
Fact: From 2003 to 2007, inclusively, the ICTY obstructed proceedings by repeatedly changing the indictment. Blind apologists refuse to recognize the obvious tactics the ICTY used to delay the trial. Consult a first year law student to learn the prosecution and court decide on the indictment, not the accused. The accused was imprisoned for more than 4 years while the charges against him were being changed. The absurdity of blaming the accused for using years to finalize the charges against him speaks volumes about the corruptness of the court and the dementia of its apologists.

That the court falsely refused to recognize the right to self representation, while concomitantly revising indictments, is direct and corroborating evidence of the ICTY’s corruptive obstruction. After the trial began in 2007, the prosecution used more than four years to parade false witnesses and dimwit experts. The accused used 0 years, 0 months, 0 days, 0 hours, 0 minutes, 0 seconds to present his defence case.

Yes, blind apologists are incapable of deductive reasoning, so you may wish to return to your source and inform them of the inconsistency in their propaganda about who obstructed proceedings.

Sure sasa.p, neutral is fine but you don’t marry your rapist. I am not saying we should become part of Russia and be dominated by anyone, but one must see investments for what they are, a method of control, if the investor is also your destroyer. Russia has its own interests but those interests are not our destruction but cooperation unlike other investors. You should not assume where I live or where I invest as my commitment to my people is not in question. I agree Serbia has great potential but I am aware that our youth cannot find work or raise a family because of the stagnating neo-liberal economic policies of the debt based Western model. We can do much better but the direction now is downward and this must change but first the change must occur in our minds. Keep up the good work defending us against those who wish us harm but remember just because someone is of a certain group does not automatically mean they are an enemy.

Appease you? There is that delusion of Serbian grandeur. What were you 'brave strong serbs' going to do, if they didn't 'appease you' by letting him go. Karadzic is where he belong and will only see the light of day behind bars or excersize on the yard.
(ohpeggy, 1 April 2016 12:59)
======================
What were Serbs supposed to do?
Join Russia in the true sense of the word and that would not be so good for EU or US.
They want Serbia. Don't you forget that. They only want a broken, submissive Serbia.

howevever it gives lie what you hear on this noticeboard of only Serbs being found guilty and others going free.
-

Who wrote that on b92?
(?, 31 March 2016 18:49)-

Still no answer from the liar who should work for the ICTY. Make something up or massively generalise to suit your opinion, but don't produce the evidence.

Peggy: Of course it is not "all fine" but the constant delaying tactics of the defendant meant that what could have been a much shorter process took more than a decade. Do you think Oric should have compensation or Gotovina, who was found guilty and then acquitted after being detained for seven years? What about Haradinaj? If the principle of paying compensation for those detained and then acquitted is established it would cost billions of dollars across the world each year and many who should be put on trial won't be because the authorities won't want to try to second guess a jury. Arrest and detention with NO evidence is unacceptable but in all the cases above there was sufficient to warrant a trial but ultimately not enough to secure a conviction.

Well there's goes the lame old anti-Serb kangaroo court excuse we've been hearing about for the past 20 years. If any of that were true, Seselj would be in prison and not free in Serbia.

Reader/EU Citizen/icj1

I will refer you to Michael Thomas's posting which is a very good description of the machinations of the court.
(Leonidas, 31 March 2016 16:51)

Hmm, not sure I asked for a dose of conspiracy theories treatment before going to bed :)
----------

My advice to Serbian people is "not to be fooled by this verdict".
(Leonidas, 31 March 2016 16:51)

So the Serbian people should then read the hallucinations of our dear friend Michael Thomas in order to "not to be fooled by this verdict".

Right Lernard. This what makes serbs the worst, they will say and do anything just to establish Veliku Srbija. We all know that anglos and protestant Germans hate catholics, so eh who cares who many catholic croats lost their lives because of this individual. Stupid Vatican refuses to recognize Kosovo even after this. There were several nazis or stalinists who didn't personally pull the trigger yet history still condems them.

Hey Mr. Sasa.p, I guess you didn’t get the “are WE good little doggies” hint from my first post? We as in WE SERBS meaning that I also am a Serb and that the grave or slave is an old SERBIAN saying. Maybe you should be a little less defensive and read my posts more carefully? I am fully against our current sell out political class and desire a closer relationship with our true allies in the East the ones that don’t beat us daily for a bone.
(The Driver, 1 April 2016 17:36

To Driver,
Sorry,but Serb's have been burned by Russia before. I live in Serbia,and see Serbia progressing forward by being nuetral,and allowing every country to invest in infrastructure. Nikolic and Vucic are not in a hurry to join EU,as say 4 years ago. China,UAE,Russia,Iran ,EU countries ,etc ,have all invested in Serbia,and Serbia is in a healthy position. I have been living in Serbia now 3 years .Unless you are living,and invested in Serbia,it is a bery different ball game.There are now very big changes in Serbia from say 4 years ago.I will always defend Serbia when Shqipire's, and Bosnjak,critisizing Serbia!.Bye for now.

Well, a UN Court can't convict people of a "Joint Criminal Enterprise" just because that has been established as a "fact" beyond reasonable doubt by a certain "Jugoslavija"!
(icj1, 3 April 2016 23:15)

The "JCE" precedent is set by corrupt judges at the direction of its Western backers, NATO , US , etc. That's why it's called a political court, not a judicial court.

Justice should be swift not dragged out so that even if found not guilty he has spent a good chunk of his life in prison.
(Peggy, 31 March 2016 22:50)

Exactly. It's a shame that you were not around to tell that to Seselj in 2003. He might have listened to you and not drag out the proceedings (even though that was certainly his right to do, but unfortunately for him it backfired).

Sasa.p from Jagodina; can’t you tell who your master is? Your master is who you serve. Is Serbia trying to join the Eurasian Union or the European Union? Who runs this court and for what reason? Is it belittling to be thrown a bone by the master who beats you daily and yet you wish for more?
Serbia needs a new political class maybe Seselj will be the beginning of a free Serbia, maybe more slavery is on the way, I have already chosen.
Better the grave than a slave!

for nato's crimes?
a Gov't could set up a court, produce evidence and summons nat0 to defend itself, with evidence. Let evidence only be the rule.
But the purpose is not revenge, but to allow them to see their sins, and hopefully return to the God of thee Bible. "Thou establishes Judgment and equity in Jacob". Psalm 96:13,".. for he comes for he comes to Judge the earth: he shall judge the world with righteousnesss and the people with truth". Words of Christ, "judge not according to appearance, but judge righteous Judgment".

Hey Mr. Sasa.p, I guess you didn’t get the “are WE good little doggies” hint from my first post? We as in WE SERBS meaning that I also am a Serb and that the grave or slave is an old SERBIAN saying. Maybe you should be a little less defensive and read my posts more carefully? I am fully against our current sell out political class and desire a closer relationship with our true allies in the East the ones that don’t beat us daily for a bone.

Plato was also a fan of dictatorship, but that is what happens when you try to sound smart.

I am sure Seselj is happy, he can go back to incite hate. But you still do not seem happy AY. What does it take to make you happy, LOL. You have to choose between Seselj and Karadzic. There is no other way. Either the Hague worked well with both of them or it didn't. Which will it be? Either the Hague is corrupt or not. Either it is incompetent or not. For both Seselj and Karadzic. Either they are out to get the Serbs or not.

Seselj was blessed by WELL KNOWN NAZIS COLLABORATOR Momcilo Djujic TWO YEARS BEFORE THE WAR. Serbs brag about their role in partisajs, but at the same time worship people like this.

I have no doubt that is the case according to a certain "Jugoslavija"!
(icj1, 4 April 2016 22:51) #

Not quite genius.

The allegations against Milosevic over Bosnia and Croatia were cooked up in 2001, two years after an earlier indictment had been issued against him by the separate international criminal tribunal for the former Yugoslavia (ICTY) at the height of Nato's attack on Yugoslavia in 1999. Notwithstanding the atrocities on all sides in Kosovo, Nato claims that Serbia was pursuing genocide turned out to be war propaganda, so the ICTY prosecutor decided to bolster a weak case by trying to "get" Milosevic for Bosnia as well. It took two years and 300 witnesses, but the prosecution never managed to produce conclusive evidence against its star defendant, and its central case has now been conclusively blown out of the water.http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2007/feb/28/warcrimes.balkans


C. Self Representation in the Šešelj Case – A Back-and-Forth Between Self Representation,Standby Counsel and Assigned Counsel
In February 2003, Vojislav Šešelj invoked his right to self-representation. The litigation which ensued from this declaration not only launched Šešelj into a battle against the Prosecution but also, at various stages, saw the Trial and Appeals Chambers in overt opposition with one another. http://www.internationallawbureau.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Lawyers-Self-Representation-Kay-Higgins.pdf

howevever it gives lie what you hear on this noticeboard of only Serbs being found guilty and others going free.
-

Who wrote that on b92?

Hanky, so now your buddies in London and Paris are once again 'great friends of serbian people'. You know why this trick works every time, stupid british masses hate catholic irish and french are french. I would hope brits would at least act as civil as they portray themselves instead of mimicing chetnik fascist. First myth brits need to forget is that catholic church somehow ran Jasenovac and directly funded the IRA.

Amnesty Jugoslavija: Indeed you are right and I phrased this badly. I knew what I meant but didn't convey it well. This principle means that anyone who is locked up prior to and during a trial is deemed innocent and it is for this reason that, in the UK at least, only wrongful arrest and wrongful conviction attract compensation, not simply being detained during trial proceedings. Being found not guilty does not in itself prove wrongful arrest otherwise thousands of claims would be made every year. Complete lack of evidence, rather than the evidence being insufficient to warrant a guilty verdict, would mean that a wrongful arrest had taken place. This happens quite often with mistaken identity or where someone is picked out in a parade and, despite no corroborative evidence, is then arrested and even charged. The judgement here stated that the prosecution had failed to make its case, not that there was no evidence to begin with and on this basis I find it hard to believe that any claim for compensation from Seselj would be successful. It would certainly be a drawn out process and if he is as ill as his medical team has previously stated, he won't be around when a decision is reached.

Not one high level General of the Croatian, Bosnia`n Muslims or Albanian KLA were convicted of the "Joint Criminal Enterprise" charge even though they were responsible for the largest ethnic cleansing crimes of Serbs in Krajina and Kosovo.
(Jugoslavija, 2 April 2016 22:32)

Well, a UN Court can't convict people of a "Joint Criminal Enterprise" just because that has been established as a "fact" beyond reasonable doubt by a certain "Jugoslavija"! The opinion of this certain "Jugoslavija" is totally immaterial when it comes to establishing facts in a UN Court or to convict people.

Justice should be swift not dragged out so that even if found not guilty he has spent a good chunk of his life in prison.
(Peggy, 31 March 2016 22:50)

Exactly. It's a shame that you were not around to tell that to Seselj in 2003. He might have listened to you and not drag out the proceedings (even though that was certainly his right to do, but unfortunately for him it backfired).
(icj1, 1 April 2016 01:11)

Fact: From 2003 to 2007, inclusively, the ICTY obstructed proceedings by repeatedly changing the indictment.
(Amnesty Yugoslavia, 1 April 2016 13:20)

Assuming that is so, feel free to credit those 4 years against the 4 years and 9 months of convictions that Seselj has already received.

Btw, you forgot to mention the dozens of motions filed by Seselj that the Court had to review and decide. Don't get me wrong; Seselj did not harm anybody by filing those motions. It was his right to exploit every possible venue and file those motions, as it was his right to have the Court carefully review all of his motions, regardless of how frivolous they were.

While he was probably feeling smart for all the motions that he filed thinking that he was delaying his conviction, including frivolous motions like this one http://www.icty.org/x/cases/seselj/tdec/en/041215.htm, ultimately he ended up prolonging his own time in jail. Nice job!

(sasa.p from Jagodina, Serbia, 1 April 2016 15:02)

Those accused of serious crimes are generally not allowed out on bail, holidays or not.
It does not matter if they handed themselves in.

Justice should be swift not dragged out so that even if found not guilty he has spent a good chunk of his life in prison.
(Peggy, 31 March 2016 22:50)

Exactly. It's a shame that you were not around to tell that to Seselj in 2003. He might have listened to you and not drag out the proceedings (even though that was certainly his right to do, but unfortunately for him it backfired).
(icj1, 1 April 2016 01:11)

There you have it our resident AI has spoken. I’m surprised it has not been called to the bar (probably leaning on one now) to wear the black robes on the Tribunal since its legal practice has the three donkeys seal of quality.
(sj, 1 April 2016 10:05)

I'm not sure who the person you are referring to is (our dear Peggy did not mention him or her either). Nonetheless, I totally agree, as always, that the UN must appoint that person as an ICTY judge since he/she is being proposed by the CE of B92 forums sj!

P.S. CE = Chief Economist

BTW you forgot to mention motions and machinations from the OTP that in collusion with the biased court delayed the start of the trial.
(Amnesty Yugoslavia, 4 April 2016 10:03)

Well, I can't mention "machinations" that exist in the head of a certain "Amnesty Yugoslavia". I'm not in your head, unfortunately :)
----------

The ICTY circus record shows the indictment changed multiple times after he surrendered and before the start of his trial. Why do you have to "assume"?
(Amnesty Yugoslavia, 4 April 2016 10:31)

I did not "assume" that. Read your full sentence that I quoted when I said that. I assumed your full sentence :)
----------

If we are assuming, then perhaps we should also assume that his 4 year and 9 month conviction were also a laughable demonstration of ICTY farce
(Amnesty Yugoslavia, 4 April 2016 10:31)

Well, I can't assume that a conviction by a UN Court for facts established beyond reasonable doubt is a farce unless you complain to the UNSC (ICTY's boss) and the UNSC agrees with you. Otherwise you are a nobody to trust compared to a UN Court.
----------

The "JCE" precedent is set by corrupt judges at the direction of its Western backers, NATO , US , etc. That's why it's called a political court, not a judicial court.
(Jugoslavija, 4 April 2016 18:27)

I have no doubt that is the case according to a certain "Jugoslavija"!

He could have extended it for years
(Zoran, 4 April 2016 11:45)

Yup, and he was very successful at that... to his own detriment, unfortunately for him!

The "JCE" precedent is set by corrupt judges at the direction of its Western backers, NATO , US , etc. That's why it's called a political court, not a judicial court.
(Jugoslavija, 4 April 2016 18:27)

I have no doubt that is the case according to a certain "Jugoslavija"!
(icj1, 4 April 2016 22:51)

Not quite genius.
(Jugoslavija, 5 April 2016 16:55)

Not quite what?! Which part(s) of your statement was(were) according to the UN?

1. That the ICTY judges are corrupt?
2. That the ICTY judges acted at the direction of NATO, US, etc?
3. That ICTY is a political, not judicial court?

You made very specific allegations (i.e. the 3 allegations above). Can you identify a UN source that says that the UN has determined (1), (2) and/or (3)?

https://arirusila.wordpress.com/2016/03/25/biased-icty-sentenced-karadzig-40-years-based-on-srebrenica-hoax/

...Who Gets Justice From ICTY?

Finnish leading daily newspaper – Helsingin Sanomat – published on 14th Apr. 2013 an investigative feature story Winners Justice related to recent release of Croatian war criminal Ante Gotovina. Gotovina was responsible about biggest ethnic cleansing during Balkan wars. The article clearly proves the political and biased nature of International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia (ICTY).

Bosniacs have got most justice from Hague, Albanians and Serbs least
Lines from top to bottom: Croats, Bosniacs, Serbs, Albanians, Other
Column 1: Civilian deaths, Column 2: Refugees, Column 3: ICTY sentences (years) about crimes against nations on line, Column 4: ICTY sentences against nations on line/days/civilian death
Column 5: ICTY sentences against nations on line/ratio of deaths + 50% of refugee amount
Free translation AR///Source: Helsingin Sanomat

(icj1, 5 April 2016 22:18) Not quite what?! Which part(s) of your statement was(were) according to the UN?

1. That the ICTY judges are corrupt?
2. That the ICTY judges acted at the direction of NATO, US, etc?
3. That ICTY is a political, not judicial court?

---

Statements 1, 2 and 3 are indeed corroborated by UN appointed Judge Harhoff.

Which part(s) of your statement was(were) according to the UN?

1. That the ICTY judges are corrupt?
2. That the ICTY judges acted at the direction of NATO, US, etc?
3. That ICTY is a political, not judicial court?
(icj1, 5 April 2016 22:18)

Now your starting to get it, good boy.

(icj1, 5 April 2016 22:18) Not quite what?! Which part(s) of your statement was(were) according to the UN?

1. That the ICTY judges are corrupt?
2. That the ICTY judges acted at the direction of NATO, US, etc?
3. That ICTY is a political, not judicial court?

---

Statements 1, 2 and 3 are indeed corroborated by UN appointed Judge Harhoff.
(Amnesty Yugoslavia, 6 April 2016 14:57)

Woow, that is excellent. So you finally have some proper evidence for something. Can you please provide a reference to the ICTY judgement where the UN appointed Judge Harhoff corroborated (1), (2) and (3)?

This is to good to be true. By sabotaging the court and prolonging the process he already spent 12yrs in prison. He basically imprisoned himself. What an Idiot. Have fun serbs. You have to live with Goebbels.

Next Mladic!

it is disgusting what the serb national front is posting here, and it shows again that Serbia still is a fascist country. No matter if that war criminal was aquitted today, anwhere in the civilized world he is seen as war criminal, and this verdict and the serb reaction to it is damaging Serbia even more than if they had send him to prison. Read what the rest of the world thinks about it, read the papers in the US, Britain, Germany, anywhere and you will see it for yourself. It brings back the memory of what Serbia did during the 90's wars. All the killings, rapes, war crimes, the genocide, all the negative memories. The reaction of the serb public certainly doesn't help either, and everybody in the West sees it, condemns it. The only friends you have left in the world is fascist Putin-Russia. Go with them, nobody wants a country like yours. Serbia is a pariah state again

Is this because of what those few muslims did, than again chetniks were always favorites of the west. I suppose no cries from Croatia, since most of his victims were muslims after all. This guy can now go free, rant about 'traditional serbian and western friendship' for the next five years using WW1 as an excuse and finally maybe start another war.

Lets see now the serb clowns making this political.

@American In Nis:

Why the damn sarcasm on your part?? Don't tell me you don't know what I'm talking about.By the way just because the prosecution couldn't prove Seselj's guilt may not necessarily mean that he's innocent so for all we know the outcome for him could be different when he meets his maker.

well, even I don't like the verdict and think it is wrong, it still is a court ruling from a democatic court and has to accepted like that. But if you read a bit into the ruling it still doesn't mean that Serbia get away untarnished. The verdict also states that Seselj's men, his killer brigade, got direct orders from the serb controlled military. The court doesn't deny that these killings, war crimes didn't happen, they happened, and Serbia is responsible for it. It all falls back on Serbia again, and the entire world blames Serbia for those crimes anyway, no matter what some dumb warmongering serb chetnics claim here. Serbia is associated with these war crimes, with the genocide committed in the Balkans forever, just like Germany will always be associated with the Nazi's, even that country learned, and has nothing to do with its horrible past any longer. The same can not be said about Serbia.

I thought this was a kangaroo court that finds Serbs guilty no matter what?

So the final prove he made a deal with serb gov to be controlled opposition leader in exchange for his freedom. They all sold out from a-z but Serbs dont get it. They rather follow their flag burning conman or their conman in gov. They all have skeletons in their closet from their past, Vucic Nikolic and Seselj all of them, just the old team. All of them are blackmailed. NATO/US has got them by the balls. But again don't expect the average Serb to get it. Many of them are just too primitive in heir thinking and those with brains are too few and too powerless to change anything for the better in their country. So they will end up following the pied pipers into the abyss either Vucic or their fake opposition conmans.

He turned that court upside down ! Bravo Mr Seselj Serbia needs intelligent leaders like yourself!

Thank God!!! And I hope and pray that Dr. Seselj will also be compensated, and that other innocent people, such as Dr. Karadzic' will be released and compensated, please God. And I would also like to mention that the reason Dr. Seselj was indicted at the first place was Djindjic''s request to Kurva Del Ponte, to "take Seselj and not to give him back": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipezkF43RGA

@ mike
No, I don’t think he turned the court upside down!
He turn the pressure on Serbian politicians involved in war crimes - upside down!
Serbian state did not give to Hague the proofs to convict him – because he could take with him a lot of other war criminals which still are in the head of Serbian state. I hope the new Serbian generation would be able to open the "war files", but i know that we should wait the death of old one.

This is impossible. Our friends Amnesty Yugoslavia, Jugoslavia, Leonidas, sj, and many others have repeatedly assured us many times that The Hague is out to get Serbs. Cangaroo court they say, NATO court they say. How is this possible? Are they wrong?

I read with caution, the NATO court is not our friend. I went to Seselj's latest march and it was huge. He said all the right things - anti-NATO, anti-EU, anti-Vucic and anti-Nikolic.
(Zoran, 31 March 2016 18:43)

This only confirms that Serbia is light years away from joining the EU. I am surprised you are not the least ashamed to admit this. I suppose Serbia can always try to join Russia if they'll have her.

Anybody who calls or sees this man as a hero is a fascist.

Ari Gold: where is your usual "the Hague is nothing but a Kangaroo Court " nonsense talk?

Or is it that way only when its in your favor?

Everyone knows much more needs to be done....

Found not guilty. Fair enough, but I can't help thinking that the judgement will only enhance this odious little mans popularity.

I wonder : the today Serbian government is so open minded to open “war crime files”? Did she give all the proofs to the Hague Tribunal - or the innocent victims should wait for 50 years that those files could be opened?

The Serbian Nelson Mandela ,is free ,finally.

woohoo! Great job! I'm sure some drug-organ dealers here, aka Albos are very happy indeed LMAO :)

@ mike
No, I don’t think he turned the court upside down!
He turn the pressure on Serbian politicians involved in war crimes - upside down!
Serbian state did not give to Hague the proofs to convict him – because he could take with him a lot of other war criminals which still are in the head of Serbian state. I hope the new Serbian generation would be able to open the "war files", but i know that we should wait the death of old one.
(Joni, 31 March 2016 14:52)

Your Shqipire's and Bosnjak's, should open your files,and look at your own backyard ,for the crimes in both 1940's (Ustashi, Balli Kombetar) and 1990's (Green Armay ,KLA ).Alest we Serb's aren't crossing borders and attacking police and innocent people in the 2015's (Kumanovo City,Macedonia)
P's Was that one of your Shqipire's family BLOOD FUEDING,with poor Kumanovo City ,People!.

Seselj ,the Serbian Nelson Mandela ,is free,finally.

This was a political decision. Kardzic gets 40 years and Seselj gets free. This means Ratko Mladic goes to jail for life.

YEAAAA the hero Is free !!!!! lets move on and have a huge celebration for the man!!!

Well there's goes the lame old anti-Serb kangaroo court excuse we've been hearing about for the past 20 years. If any of that were true, Seselj would be in prison and not free in Serbia.

Rote Zoran means - Well built strong handsome. I have my doubts about this Zoran. Zora means Sunrise early morning it is a girls name. With Seselj acquittal. I think God has some very interesting special surprises instore for fascist criminal Serbia.

Here is fascist Seselj with https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/un-court-acquits-serb-ultranationalist-seselj-of-charges/2016/03/31/73b50712-f725-11e5-958d-d038dac6e718_story.html Sadam his sick criminal hero.

Don’t be fooled by this verdict. The Hague Tribunal is a tool of the NATO west and everything it does is carefully considered. This “judgement” has nothing to do with evidence or a proper legal process. The Hague Tribunal is not a legal body; it is a propaganda tool. It uses its indictments and judgements to condemn those who dare challenge to power of the western elite. All Serbian leaders have now been brought before this NATO court and only one has been acquitted. Since Dr Seselj is sick with cancer and his political role in Serbia has been reduced to virtual insignificance, then the western power elite have little to fear by releasing him, and they have much to gain. Now they can say that they are fair and reasonable. Serbs who are rotting in western dungeons were, according to the Hague Tribunal, fairly convicted. We can expect General Mladic to get a sentence similar to Dr Karadzic, and no one in the so-called “free” western press will protest because the Tribunal has proved, by the Seselj verdict, that it is truly impartial.

Here is Seselj's defence in a nutshell -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCCMFHvVVA4

How about that!

Give me a break, makes me sick to see all you muslims come on here crying. when your criminals all got released, oric and haradanj who committed real crimes, actually killed people and intimidated witnesses after. I think enough Serbs have been indicted, but the issue remains, who from your side? until that is addressed, this will not be the same. today seselj showed this court is a damn joke, and of all people you muslims shld not be talk ij ng as your killers still loom out there. get a life and find a new site to rant on..makes me sick listening to you

Appease you? There is that delusion of Serbian grandeur. What were you 'brave strong serbs' going to do, if they didn't 'appease you' by letting him go. Karadzic is where he belong and will only see the light of day behind bars or excersize on the yard.

Like Oric, I suspect he is innocent for lack of evidence rather than not doing the crime, howevever it gives lie what you hear on this noticeboard of only Serbs being found guilty and others going free. However he is free and time to move on, though I am sure some new conspiracy theory will start soon here as to how he is only free because of some secret US plan to destory Serbia.

Seems like americas influence over the court is gone. When normal people decide, serbs are innocent.

Anyone else from the other side spent that much time in prison without a conviction?
(Peggy, 31 March 2016 22:50)

Who is the other side?

I dont know if anyone from Yugoslavia spent longer. I do think it was too long for a trial but there were mitigating factors, Seseljs own stalling and intimidation of witnesses including releasing the names of witesses in protection programs, also having one long-term judge removed. SOme of the time he spent there was under sentence for contempt. However you cannot have a limit on the length of trial becasue that only encourages this behaviour

I am sure Seselj is happy, he can go back to incite hate. But you still do not seem happy AY. What does it take to make you happy, LOL. You have to choose between Seselj and Karadzic. There is no other way. Either the Hague worked well with both of them or it didn't. Which will it be? Either the Hague is corrupt or not. Either it is incompetent or not. For both Seselj and Karadzic. Either they are out to get the Serbs or not.

Appease you? There is that delusion of Serbian grandeur. What were you 'brave strong serbs' going to do, if they didn't 'appease you' by letting him go. Karadzic is where he belong and will only see the light of day behind bars or excersize on the yard.
(ohpeggy, 1 April 2016 12:59)
======================
What were Serbs supposed to do?
Join Russia in the true sense of the word and that would not be so good for EU or US.
They want Serbia. Don't you forget that. They only want a broken, submissive Serbia.

Peggy: Of course it is not "all fine" but the constant delaying tactics of the defendant meant that what could have been a much shorter process took more than a decade. Do you think Oric should have compensation or Gotovina, who was found guilty and then acquitted after being detained for seven years? What about Haradinaj? If the principle of paying compensation for those detained and then acquitted is established it would cost billions of dollars across the world each year and many who should be put on trial won't be because the authorities won't want to try to second guess a jury. Arrest and detention with NO evidence is unacceptable but in all the cases above there was sufficient to warrant a trial but ultimately not enough to secure a conviction.

This is a major embarrassment for the prosecution. They couldn't make their case and in the meanwhile had to put up with his abuse. I don't like the man. I don't like his principles but he is loyal to them. Unlike some others from that period.

Well, when the ICTY basically gave up trying to get Seselj to return to the dock and essentially said it was OK for him to watch the verdict on television from Serbia, it was pretty clear the verdict would either be not guilty or guilty with time served. Considering Gotovina and others walked with far more egregious crimes attached to their legacies, it's hardly possible to find guilt with Seselj.

Isn’t that special, throwing Serbs a bone like that, are we good little doggies? Please master may I have another?

Then why did it take 13 years of keeping him to find that out? Seselj was a mouth-piece, he talked rhetoric but committed no war crimes. This was a plain as day. The ICTY is the most incompetent tribunal in the history of international law. When will they ever get around to convicting those responsible for murdering Serb civilians during the war? Or the ethnic cleansing of a quarter million Serbs from Croatia or 100k from Sarajevo or 200k from Kosovo-Metohija?

Zoran

From the very beginning I was suspicious against Vucic because the USA betrayed Tadic too easily. Usually when their candidate loses elections they immediately find violations. But this time all were happy.

Another thing that surprised me was the step to the shadow Toma did soon after the elections. He just became a pensioner.

Today Seselj is the most preferable candidate for Russia and it’s not only my opinion. We are tired of the Serbs trying to sit on two chairs with one ass. If you want to win a lottery you have to buy a ticket at least.

Zoran please tell me what does your name mean. You know that most often Slav names have some meaning. Zoran is a wide spread name in former Yugoslavia and we have an alike name ЗОРЯН that means SUNRISE MAN. Is it the same name or not?

One more question Kosovo field in Russian sounds as Haymaking Field. Does it have the same meaning in Serbian? At least it sounds very Russian while the battle of 1389 had very tragic sequences for the ruling Rurikovici dynasty while Niemanici were a branch of theirs.

I miss the warm and cozy feeling inside myself after the verdict.
Yes, the 8000+ dead in Srebrenica are most likely a huge over-estimate, the correct numbers are probably in 3000 range.

IMO, having 'merely' 4 dead civilians on your 'account' does justify a 40 year sentence.

How about that?

Yes, the Hague court is a disgrace. It is indeed a kangaroo court and they proved it on many occasions. Regardless, in an ideal case Seselj would get a 10 year sentence in a Serbian court.

Sitting next to Thaçi and Izetbegovic Jr. for the next 10 years.
Izetbegovic Sr., Jeltsin and (ass)Holebroke can't be sentenced anymore, they have their fireproof suits and a little Dante book in hand already). The Clintons are in-line for that treatment.

Please realize, these people destroy our life. At least a little good to be said about Clintons is that they were / are more-less OK for the economy. Otherwise evil as the rest of the gang.

And don't feel warm and cozy about Put In either. The sooner he and his criminal buddies are gone, the better.

Please help me to name a single politician who in last 40 years was good for both politics (not Pinochet!) and economy (not Carter, not Gorby!)

Hanky, so now your buddies in London and Paris are once again 'great friends of serbian people'. You know why this trick works every time, stupid british masses hate catholic irish and french are french. I would hope brits would at least act as civil as they portray themselves instead of mimicing chetnik fascist. First myth brits need to forget is that catholic church somehow ran Jasenovac and directly funded the IRA.

(Reader, 1 April 2016 19:32) Either the Hague worked well with both of them or it didn't. Which will it be? Either the Hague is corrupt or not. Either it is incompetent or not. For both Seselj and Karadzic. Either they are out to get the Serbs or not.
---

The ICTY is corrupt.
The ICTY is incompetent...for everyone.

Cangaroo court they say, NATO court they say. How is this possible? Are they wrong?
(Reader, 31 March 2016 15:34)

Learn how to spell, of course it's a kangaroo court, Seselj could not be convicted as a "JCE" because he was never part of the Serbian, Bosnian or any other government during the war. That is why this is a political court, not a judiciary court.

Perhaps we should all head to the streets and have a big party like our neighbouring Croatians do.

Just after they convict Karadzic and give him 40 years in prison. Is this meant to appease us somehow?
If it is then what happens now? Do we fall for this? Who is going to bring back the years he spent in jail?
I am glad that he was found not guilty but I don't trust this court at all. They are up to something.

. However he is free and time to move on, though I am sure some new conspiracy theory will start soon here as to how he is only free because of some secret US plan to destory Serbia.
(Dwight, 31 March 2016 16:06)
----------------------
I wouldn't put it past them.
Still, it does uphold our statements that the court is rubbish. He just spent many years in prison for what? How can this be allowed to happen? Justice should be swift not dragged out so that even if found not guilty he has spent a good chunk of his life in prison.
Anyone else from the other side spent that much time in prison without a conviction?

Ned Taylor said:

"Those who lambasted the Hague court only last week are now praising its common sense and decency."
----------------------
Not so. The court has just proved how corrupt they are.
Anyone else found not innocent spent so much time behind bars from the other side?
They imprisoned an innocent man for over a decade. You call this decency?
If the court had any decency they wouldn't be holding him prisoner for so long without some sort of a verdict.

it is disgusting what the serb national front is posting here, and it shows again that Serbia still is a fascist country.
(obserer, 31 March 2016 23:40)

As opposed to Croatia celebrating the acquittal on appeal of Ante Gotovina where full concerts, parades, and elected officials welcomed a "hero" back?

Or Ramush Haradinaj being released on lack of evidence and coming back to Kosovo with wild ovations?

Stop being hypocritically surprised at something others in the region were far worse in doing.

Sasa.p from Jagodina; can’t you tell who your master is? Your master is who you serve. Is Serbia trying to join the Eurasian Union or the European Union? Who runs this court and for what reason? Is it belittling to be thrown a bone by the master who beats you daily and yet you wish for more?
Serbia needs a new political class maybe Seselj will be the beginning of a free Serbia, maybe more slavery is on the way, I have already chosen.
Better the grave than a slave!

That should have been the verdict of Karadzic as well !.

Arn.Sweden.

They imprisoned an innocent man for over a decade. You call this decency?
(Peggy, 31 March 2016 22:55)
--
Lets not forget that they destroyed his political party in the process. The SRS was getting over 40% of the vote.

Exactly. It's a shame that you were not around to tell that to Seselj in 2003. He might have listened to you and not drag out the proceedings (even though that was certainly his right to do, but unfortunately for him it backfired).
(icj1, 1 April 2016 01:11)

There you have it our resident AI has spoken. I’m surprised it has not been called to the bar (probably leaning on one now) to wear the black robes on the Tribunal since its legal practice has the three donkeys seal of quality.

Right Lernard. This what makes serbs the worst, they will say and do anything just to establish Veliku Srbija. We all know that anglos and protestant Germans hate catholics, so eh who cares who many catholic croats lost their lives because of this individual. Stupid Vatican refuses to recognize Kosovo even after this. There were several nazis or stalinists who didn't personally pull the trigger yet history still condems them.

Here is fascist Seselj with [link] Sadam his sick criminal hero.
(Lenard, 1 April 2016 09:36) # Comm

When I went to USA Embassy,in London.My son took a photo of myself in front of the picture's of George Washington and Ronald Reagan.
So I am best friend's, buddies and ,pal's with George Washington and Ronald Reagan in your eye's !!.What a idiot you are !.
Regard's from George Washington and Ronald Reagan great friend.
P's I have photos in front of their pictures with myself to proof it, Lol,Lol!.
Long live ,Serbian Nelson Mandela !

Sasa.p from Jagodina; can’t you tell who your master is? Your master is who you serve. Is Serbia trying to join the Eurasian Union or the European Union? Who runs this court and for what reason? Is it belittling to be thrown a bone by the master who beats you daily and yet you wish for more?
Serbia needs a new political class maybe Seselj will be the beginning of a free Serbia, maybe more slavery is on the way, I have already chosen.
Better the grave than a slave!
(The Driver, 1 April 2016 02:13)

To driver,
Yea,you picked sitting in a Western Country ,behind a keyboard,as a So called "Grave".
Why not go and invest in your Patriotic Pristina and open your Wallet/Purse and create job's for your beloved citizens ,you love so much ,that you can't live in (Pristina).
P's not like you,I went back to live in my beloved Serbia,and invest to help my beloved family/relative's.

Jugoslavija: Not for the first time you have chosen to misunderstand my comments. The four people selected were not chosen because they were indicted for similar offences but because a) they were all found not guilty (eventually) and b) they represent four different groups; Kosovo Albanian, Serb, Croat and Bosnian Muslim. The cries of "all ours are innocent all yours are guilty" which I have read over the years on here simply don't wash.
(ned taylor, 31 March 2016 19:16)

I understand you very well and the ICTY is not even close to a judiciary court of law, it is a political banana court of law. The precedents do not equally apply to all the parties during the Yugoslavia civil war. That's what happens when the so called international community involves itself in a civil war. The proof is there for everyone to see including yourself. Not one high level General of the Croatian, Bosnia`n Muslims or Albanian KLA were convicted of the "Joint Criminal Enterprise" charge even though they were responsible for the largest ethnic cleansing crimes of Serbs in Krajina and Kosovo. The indictments for the Croatian Generals of Gotovina and Mercep were clearly political as the levity of their crimes are no different then Serbian Generals Kadijevic, Lazerevic, Pavkovic, Ojdanic, and Mladic. The same goes at the highest levels of leadership of Izetbegovic, Tudjman and Milosevic.

Justice should be swift not dragged out so that even if found not guilty he has spent a good chunk of his life in prison.
(Peggy, 31 March 2016 22:50)

Exactly. It's a shame that you were not around to tell that to Seselj in 2003. He might have listened to you and not drag out the proceedings (even though that was certainly his right to do, but unfortunately for him it backfired).
(icj1, 1 April 2016 01:11)

There you have it our resident AI has spoken. I’m surprised it has not been called to the bar (probably leaning on one now) to wear the black robes on the Tribunal since its legal practice has the three donkeys seal of quality.
(sj, 1 April 2016 10:05)

I'm not sure who the person you are referring to is (our dear Peggy did not mention him or her either). Nonetheless, I totally agree, as always, that the UN must appoint that person as an ICTY judge since he/she is being proposed by the CE of B92 forums sj!

P.S. CE = Chief Economist

Justice should be swift not dragged out so that even if found not guilty he has spent a good chunk of his life in prison.
(Peggy, 31 March 2016 22:50)

Exactly. It's a shame that you were not around to tell that to Seselj in 2003. He might have listened to you and not drag out the proceedings (even though that was certainly his right to do, but unfortunately for him it backfired).
(icj1, 1 April 2016 01:11)

Fact: From 2003 to 2007, inclusively, the ICTY obstructed proceedings by repeatedly changing the indictment.
(Amnesty Yugoslavia, 1 April 2016 13:20)

Assuming that is so, feel free to credit those 4 years against the 4 years and 9 months of convictions that Seselj has already received.

Btw, you forgot to mention the dozens of motions filed by Seselj that the Court had to review and decide. Don't get me wrong; Seselj did not harm anybody by filing those motions. It was his right to exploit every possible venue and file those motions, as it was his right to have the Court carefully review all of his motions, regardless of how frivolous they were.

While he was probably feeling smart for all the motions that he filed thinking that he was delaying his conviction, including frivolous motions like this one http://www.icty.org/x/cases/seselj/tdec/en/041215.htm, ultimately he ended up prolonging his own time in jail. Nice job!

The Seselj case has been an embarrassment for the ICTY from beginning to end.

This 'humanitarian law' made on the fly, as pioneered by the ICTY, shows how ambitious prosecutors have been allowed to run riot with all sorts of new and made up legal concepts, simply to serve the purpose to get a conviction (Joint Criminal Enterprise for example) or remove someone from public life through and indictment for years and years before coming to trial.

The ICTY has also arbitrarily ignored a fundamental tenet of criminal law - that everyone is has the right to a timely trial.

The ICTY has shown how it mocks balance, impartiality, fundamental tenets, a basic standard of actual evidence rather than inferred or interpreted evidence and practice of law, all so that a victor's justice can be applied. But that is what is what kangaroo courts are for.

This is impossible. Our friends Amnesty Yugoslavia, Jugoslavia, Leonidas, sj, and many others have repeatedly assured us many times that The Hague is out to get Serbs. Cangaroo court they say, NATO court they say. How is this possible? Are they wrong?
(Reader

Reader/EU Citizen/icj1

I will refer you to Michael Thomas's posting which is a very good description of the machinations of the court.My advice to Serbian people is "not to be fooled by this verdict".

Isn’t that special, throwing Serbs a bone like that, are we good little doggies? Please master may I have another?
(The Driver, 31 March 2016 17:13)

To Driver,
Who throw Serbia a bone?,the Russian's investing and helping the infrastructure with the expanding of Rail and medical equipment?, OR The China, investing in the highway's ,corridors?, OR The UAE refinancing our loan with interest free loan,and investing in farming and Belgrade on water project ?. OR EU ,OR Belarus ?.
Alot of bones have been thrown to us.
P'S you wish your Shqipire's or Bosnjak's where thrown a small little bone in the future, LOL!!.

Isn’t that special, throwing Serbs a bone like that, are we good little doggies? Please master may I have another?
(The Driver, 31 March 2016 17:13)

To Driver,
Who throw Serbia a bone?,the Russian's investing and helping the infrastructure with the expanding of Rail and medical equipment?, OR The China, investing in the highway's ,corridors?, OR The UAE refinancing our loan with interest free loan,and investing in farming and Belgrade on water project ?. OR EU ,OR Belarus ?.
Alot of bones have been thrown to us.
P'S you wish your Shqipire's or Bosnjak's where thrown a small little bone in the future, LOL!!,they (Shqipire and Bosnjaks) look like starving Street dog's!.

If he isn`t a war criminal, then he is a hero. If he is a war hero why not elected as PM or President?

But, maybe he should hurry up. You know, some guys don`t live too long.

Slobo, Gojko, Tudjman, Izetbegovic, Rugova...all dead. Natural causes.

Well, who could say for sure that Dr. Sesejl won`t have an accident caused by natural bad weather during a flight?

Ned Taylor, there have been other Serbs acquitted, this isn't the first time. However, statistically speaking, the anti-Serb bias of the NATO court holds beyond a shadow of a doubt.

How many have been convicted for committing crimes against Serbs? Most Croats/Muslims have been jailed for crimes against each other and not Serbs. Also, there is still room for an appeal in Seselj's case so don't count your chickens before they hatch. Finally, why was no-one ever held responsible for NATO's crimes?

Reader/EU Citizen/icj1

I will refer you to Michael Thomas's posting which is a very good description of the machinations of the court.
(Leonidas, 31 March 2016 16:51)

Hmm, not sure I asked for a dose of conspiracy theories treatment before going to bed :)
----------

My advice to Serbian people is "not to be fooled by this verdict".
(Leonidas, 31 March 2016 16:51)

So the Serbian people should then read the hallucinations of our dear friend Michael Thomas in order to "not to be fooled by this verdict".

Justice should be swift not dragged out so that even if found not guilty he has spent a good chunk of his life in prison.
(Peggy, 31 March 2016 22:50)

Exactly. It's a shame that you were not around to tell that to Seselj in 2003. He might have listened to you and not drag out the proceedings (even though that was certainly his right to do, but unfortunately for him it backfired).

Here are some facts

He did not command any troops and he never fired a weapon.

It took 12 years to realize this?

Or did it take so long because it knew it could not convict... but still wanted to punish?

If you answer the first, then you are incompetent.

If you answer the second, then you are guilty of not delivering the accused his right to a speedy trial.

A banana court.

The written summaries of the verdict and dissenting opinion are a laughable conclusion to a completely corrupt process and institution. A consistent history of abhorrently decrepit standards of evidence, subjective opinions, inferences used in the absence of direct evidence , illogical and absurd reasoning... The list of contemptuous acts against justice, by the clowns at the ICTY circus, is endless.

More than 100 000 Yugoslav victims of all ethnicities deserved better than a farce with grotesques costs exceeding billions of dollars.

The one major outcome of ICTY's corruption was to irreversibly destroy the notion of international criminal justice.

The bombers of Medecins Sans Frontiere Hospitals and the murders of defenceless doctors and wounded patients are grateful to the ICTY's black-robe accomplices for corrupting the practice international criminal law.

The one and only true JCE may continue to sow wars and destruction in Iraq, Libya, Syria, Sudan and other condemned corners...with impunity.

The ICTY and its blind apologists celebrate this as a "mission accomplished".

(icj1, 1 April 2016 01:11) Exactly. It's a shame that you were not around to tell that to Seselj in 2003. He might have listened to you and not drag out the proceedings (even though that was certainly his right to do, but unfortunately for him it backfired).
---
Fact: From 2003 to 2007, inclusively, the ICTY obstructed proceedings by repeatedly changing the indictment. Blind apologists refuse to recognize the obvious tactics the ICTY used to delay the trial. Consult a first year law student to learn the prosecution and court decide on the indictment, not the accused. The accused was imprisoned for more than 4 years while the charges against him were being changed. The absurdity of blaming the accused for using years to finalize the charges against him speaks volumes about the corruptness of the court and the dementia of its apologists.

That the court falsely refused to recognize the right to self representation, while concomitantly revising indictments, is direct and corroborating evidence of the ICTY’s corruptive obstruction. After the trial began in 2007, the prosecution used more than four years to parade false witnesses and dimwit experts. The accused used 0 years, 0 months, 0 days, 0 hours, 0 minutes, 0 seconds to present his defence case.

Yes, blind apologists are incapable of deductive reasoning, so you may wish to return to your source and inform them of the inconsistency in their propaganda about who obstructed proceedings.

Yes, blind apologists are incapable of deductive reasoning, so you may wish to return to your source and inform them of the inconsistency in their propaganda about who obstructed proceedings.
(Amnesty Yugoslavia, 1 April 2016 13:20)
--
Here is Seselj himself complaining about the length of his trial after 7 years. Check -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bM_es_sScjw

"No one is more hated than he who speaks the truth" - Plato

Hey Mr. Sasa.p, I guess you didn’t get the “are WE good little doggies” hint from my first post? We as in WE SERBS meaning that I also am a Serb and that the grave or slave is an old SERBIAN saying. Maybe you should be a little less defensive and read my posts more carefully? I am fully against our current sell out political class and desire a closer relationship with our true allies in the East the ones that don’t beat us daily for a bone.
(The Driver, 1 April 2016 17:36

To Driver,
Sorry,but Serb's have been burned by Russia before. I live in Serbia,and see Serbia progressing forward by being nuetral,and allowing every country to invest in infrastructure. Nikolic and Vucic are not in a hurry to join EU,as say 4 years ago. China,UAE,Russia,Iran ,EU countries ,etc ,have all invested in Serbia,and Serbia is in a healthy position. I have been living in Serbia now 3 years .Unless you are living,and invested in Serbia,it is a bery different ball game.There are now very big changes in Serbia from say 4 years ago.I will always defend Serbia when Shqipire's, and Bosnjak,critisizing Serbia!.Bye for now.

(sasa.p from Jagodina, Serbia, 1 April 2016 15:02)

Those accused of serious crimes are generally not allowed out on bail, holidays or not.
It does not matter if they handed themselves in.
(Dwight, 1 April 2016 18:08)

Coming from countries ,that have Commonwealth law (Britain,Australia) and Democratic Serbia. Bail is not given to flight risk,and NO money/assests guarantee.Since Seselj show good faith by volunteer, and the law is NOT Guilty until proven Guilty. Now,it's "Show me the Money" ,for pain and suffering in detention for 12 years!!.

No Peggy I don't call this decency. If you read what I wrote it says that OTHERS are referring to the common sense and decency of the Hague Court NOT that I believe this is how they carry on. A man is only guilty or innocent when the verdict is announced so it is inaccurate to say that they detained an innocent man. They detained an accused man.
(ned taylor, 1 April 2016 14:52)
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So in other words you can spend a decade in jail just by being accused?
Justice delayed is justice denied.
You spend that long in jail and then come back and tell us how it's all fine.

Sasa, Seselj gave himself up to spread propaganda. He would have found some other way to get attention. Nazis tried to use this tactic at Nuremberg as well. Hagua officials simply thought that it would be easy to convict him because he was a leader of an ultra right wing party. You are right, they should have not given your chetnik hero a platform to spread hate, instead they should have hunted his eagels one by one and ripped their wings off. The fact that Radical party was such a force in Serbian politics even after this guy went to the Hague says a lot.

Seselj was blessed by WELL KNOWN NAZIS COLLABORATOR Momcilo Djujic TWO YEARS BEFORE THE WAR. Serbs brag about their role in partisajs, but at the same time worship people like this.

Is this a check mate move?

Now on one side you have Genocide in Bosnia by Karadjic and Not Guilty for Seselj, hard to say oh this court will judge just Serbs so either its correct or not.

But will he be a rope around Vucic neck, a way to keep him under control?

I have said all along in this case and others that justice is the process not the verdict. Seselj has quite literally faced justice and has been found not guilty. There needs to be some consistency from those who comment on ICTY verdicts. If a man is found not guilty he has to be treated that way irrespective of personal feelings. That means Gotovina, Haradinaj, Oric and now Seselj. It serves no purpose either in the moment or for future reconciliation to believe that all of 'your' people are innocent freedom fighters whilst everyone else is a terrorist, mass murderer or rapist. Those who lambasted the Hague court only last week are now praising its common sense and decency. There will be conspiracy theories by the bucket load, this is the Balkans after all but ultimately the evidence, such as it is, is put before the court and it makes a ruling after assessing that evidence. The idea that outside actors are continually leaning on the judges to make this or that ruling might make those putting it forward feel better but it takes the process nowhere. It is rare that those who have only been on remand as opposed to having served time are successful in winning damages but Mr Seselj has proved a thorn in the side of Hague administrators for 12 years and isn't likely to go away now. I expect a full and speedy recovery from his illness in the near future too.

Before I forget...

So, what of Tomislav Mercep? He went on the rampage with his boys around Vukovar before the fighting broke out and was 'investigated' a couple of times by the ICTY but never indicted.

Why do I bring Mercep up? He was a Croatian neo-Ustasa 'politician' and paramilitary 'leader', but contrary to the level of evidence available in Seselj's trial (nowhere near the acceptable minimum legal standard) , the evidence against Mercep is far substantial yet it is Seselj who spent years in the Hauge's jail and not Mercep.

They claimed on each occasion 'lack of evidence'!

That is one very clear example of why the ICTY is an absolute fu*&£jng joke. It's a bloody self-tying pretzel!

Yawn.

Can we get past this and start growing the economy, creating jobs, and making money?

That means Gotovina, Haradinaj, Oric and now Seselj.
(ned taylor, 31 March 2016 15:13) # Comment link

Your comparisons are flawed again, what does it take for you to actually understand the political implications? Gotovina, Haradinaj and Oric had command and control of armies and inflicted atrocities on civilians, they were not convicted. General Pavkovic, General Lazerovic, General Tohimar, General Ratko Mladic also had command and control and were convicted. Do you not see a problem? The Joint Criminal Enterprise precedent is not equal across the board, therefore call this court what it is , political, nothing more.

As for Seselj, he was never part of the Serbian government, no command and control, was involved with "White Eagles" organization there was no proof he had command and control of paramilitary force.

The Serbian Nelson Mandela ,is free ,finally.
(sasa.p from Jagodina, Serbia, 31 March 2016 16:50)

Let's see if he gets elected and get carried out of the Serbian parliament for not observing protocol.

Tread with caution, the NATO court is not our friend. I went to Seselj's latest march and it was huge. He said all the right things - anti-NATO, anti-EU, anti-Vucic and anti-Nikolic.

I find it suspicious that they would announce this just before elections. His popularity will only increase. So what is the purpose? Are the rumours true? Will Seselj form a government with Vucic? Will they then have the numbers to change the constitution?

Voters are constantly being deceived! I suppose we can only wait until after the elections. The appeal has been launched so if Seselj has made an agreement, the NATO court can still reverse the decision if he doesn't commit.

howevever it gives lie what you hear on this noticeboard of only Serbs being found guilty and others going free.
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Who wrote that on b92?

Jugoslavija: Not for the first time you have chosen to misunderstand my comments. The four people selected were not chosen because they were indicted for similar offences but because a) they were all found not guilty (eventually) and b) they represent four different groups; Kosovo Albanian, Serb, Croat and Bosnian Muslim. The cries of "all ours are innocent all yours are guilty" which I have read over the years on here simply don't wash.

rote, yes, similar meaning. Zora is dawn, the light before the sun rises. Zoran is the male version of the name.

Lets hope Seselj still has it in him. Check -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bM_es_sScjw

I would like to hear him state publicly that he will not form a government with Vucic. I will then vote for him.

This only confirms that Serbia is light years away from joining the EU. I am surprised you are not the least ashamed to admit this. I suppose Serbia can always try to join Russia if they'll have her.
(EU Citizen, 31 March 2016 22:20)
--
??? I'm not sure I understand your point? I hope Serbia never joins the EU. Ne u NATO, ne u EU. That is gathering quite a bit of momentum in Serbia.

If the court had any decency they wouldn't be holding him prisoner for so long without some sort of a verdict.
(Peggy, 31 March 2016 22:55)

He has had 3 verdicts convicting him already, dear, so some of the time in prison was to serve those sentences.

Who is the other side?

I dont know if anyone from Yugoslavia spent longer. I do think it was too long for a trial but there were mitigating factors, Seseljs own stalling and intimidation of witnesses including releasing the names of witesses in protection programs, also having one long-term judge removed. SOme of the time he spent there was under sentence for contempt. However you cannot have a limit on the length of trial becasue that only encourages this behaviour
(Dwight, 1 April 2016 11:35)

No Dwight,
Hague Court's, should have him not staying in jail,since he volunteer himself. When the court's where on holidays, Seselj should have been allowed to enjoy his holidays. Had he stayed in private accommodation ,and had freedom (eg Bail),think's would be different right now from Hague, instead a law suit to follow ,for detaining a non convicted volunteer!.
P's how much do you think 12 years cost a leader of a powerful party in year 2003!!.

(ned taylor, 1 April 2016 14:52) A man is only guilty or innocent when the verdict is announced

---

Ned, in most reputable judiciciaries a man is innocent until proven guilty.

Hey Mr. Sasa.p, I guess you didn’t get the “are WE good little doggies” hint from my first post? We as in WE SERBS meaning that I also am a Serb and that the grave or slave is an old SERBIAN saying. Maybe you should be a little less defensive and read my posts more carefully? I am fully against our current sell out political class and desire a closer relationship with our true allies in the East the ones that don’t beat us daily for a bone.

Sure sasa.p, neutral is fine but you don’t marry your rapist. I am not saying we should become part of Russia and be dominated by anyone, but one must see investments for what they are, a method of control, if the investor is also your destroyer. Russia has its own interests but those interests are not our destruction but cooperation unlike other investors. You should not assume where I live or where I invest as my commitment to my people is not in question. I agree Serbia has great potential but I am aware that our youth cannot find work or raise a family because of the stagnating neo-liberal economic policies of the debt based Western model. We can do much better but the direction now is downward and this must change but first the change must occur in our minds. Keep up the good work defending us against those who wish us harm but remember just because someone is of a certain group does not automatically mean they are an enemy.

Amnesty Jugoslavija: Indeed you are right and I phrased this badly. I knew what I meant but didn't convey it well. This principle means that anyone who is locked up prior to and during a trial is deemed innocent and it is for this reason that, in the UK at least, only wrongful arrest and wrongful conviction attract compensation, not simply being detained during trial proceedings. Being found not guilty does not in itself prove wrongful arrest otherwise thousands of claims would be made every year. Complete lack of evidence, rather than the evidence being insufficient to warrant a guilty verdict, would mean that a wrongful arrest had taken place. This happens quite often with mistaken identity or where someone is picked out in a parade and, despite no corroborative evidence, is then arrested and even charged. The judgement here stated that the prosecution had failed to make its case, not that there was no evidence to begin with and on this basis I find it hard to believe that any claim for compensation from Seselj would be successful. It would certainly be a drawn out process and if he is as ill as his medical team has previously stated, he won't be around when a decision is reached.

Just watched Weight of Chains 2. Great documentary. It even has Carla del Ponte admitting that the NATO court makes political decisions.

Sasa, Seselj gave himself up to spread propaganda. He would have found some other way to get attention. Nazis tried to use this tactic at Nuremberg as well. Hagua officials simply thought that it would be easy to convict him because he was a leader of an ultra right wing party. You are right, they should have not given your chetnik hero a platform to spread hate, instead they should have hunted his eagels one by one and ripped their wings off. The fact that Radical party was such a force in Serbian politics even after this guy went to the Hague says a lot.
(politicsornot, 2 April 2016 11:34) # Comment link

To politivsornot,
First ,Seselj handed himself in to Hague.
Second ,the Radical Party of Serbia where willing to put bond money up for his BAIL,and release from detention.
Third, Radical Party would have paid for his living arrangements in ,Brussels while he goes to court when required.
Note:it doesn't matter what is his feelings towards other countries, he is only accused,and not proven Guilty.
Most of all,Seselj was NO risk flight OR of running away,from court!!.
P's Now with all this comments of mine,Show me the money.!

Sasa, Seselj gave himself up to spread propaganda. He would have found some other way to get attention. Nazis tried to use this tactic at Nuremberg as well. Hagua officials simply thought that it would be easy to convict him because he was a leader of an ultra right wing party. You are right, they should have not given your chetnik hero a platform to spread hate, instead they should have hunted his eagels one by one and ripped their wings off. The fact that Radical party was such a force in Serbian politics even after this guy went to the Hague says a lot.
(politicsornot, 2 April 2016 11:34)

As an American with a Serb mother, I will add that Seselj wasn't Serbia's president. He led a radical party. So, it says very little about Serbs. Second, look who's the leading candidate for president in the United States. Does Donald Trump's lead say a lot about Americans? Your comment is really stupid. This is called an ecological fallacy, since you are trying to paint a picture of everyone based on one small segment of the population. I'm honestly sick of the prejudice against Serbs. In the old days (Balkan wars), the same people who pretend to be good human beings did nothing but prejudice all Serbs, so that an old woman selling fruit at a market was as guilty of war crimes as a soldier. That doesn't fly any more bro, at least among the intelligencia, among whom you clearly are not.

Not one high level General of the Croatian, Bosnia`n Muslims or Albanian KLA were convicted of the "Joint Criminal Enterprise" charge even though they were responsible for the largest ethnic cleansing crimes of Serbs in Krajina and Kosovo.
(Jugoslavija, 2 April 2016 22:32)

Well, a UN Court can't convict people of a "Joint Criminal Enterprise" just because that has been established as a "fact" beyond reasonable doubt by a certain "Jugoslavija"! The opinion of this certain "Jugoslavija" is totally immaterial when it comes to establishing facts in a UN Court or to convict people.

Anybody who calls or sees this man as a hero is a fascist.
(Observer, 1 April 2016 23:37)
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According to you.

BTW you forgot to mention motions and machinations from the OTP that in collusion with the biased court delayed the start of the trial.
(Amnesty Yugoslavia, 4 April 2016 10:03)

Well, I can't mention "machinations" that exist in the head of a certain "Amnesty Yugoslavia". I'm not in your head, unfortunately :)
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The ICTY circus record shows the indictment changed multiple times after he surrendered and before the start of his trial. Why do you have to "assume"?
(Amnesty Yugoslavia, 4 April 2016 10:31)

I did not "assume" that. Read your full sentence that I quoted when I said that. I assumed your full sentence :)
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If we are assuming, then perhaps we should also assume that his 4 year and 9 month conviction were also a laughable demonstration of ICTY farce
(Amnesty Yugoslavia, 4 April 2016 10:31)

Well, I can't assume that a conviction by a UN Court for facts established beyond reasonable doubt is a farce unless you complain to the UNSC (ICTY's boss) and the UNSC agrees with you. Otherwise you are a nobody to trust compared to a UN Court.
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The "JCE" precedent is set by corrupt judges at the direction of its Western backers, NATO , US , etc. That's why it's called a political court, not a judicial court.
(Jugoslavija, 4 April 2016 18:27)

I have no doubt that is the case according to a certain "Jugoslavija"!

He could have extended it for years
(Zoran, 4 April 2016 11:45)

Yup, and he was very successful at that... to his own detriment, unfortunately for him!

By their own admission the Tribunal didn't have the evidence to convict him, but they kept him in jail for more than 11 years! Then they sat on the verdict for another four years after the trial ended. If you look up "kangaroo Court" in the dictionary, there should be a picture of the Hague Tribunal. What a joke. At this point, the ICTY's credibility is less than zero.

"Presiding Judge Jean Claude Antonetti said the Hague Prosecution failed to present enough legal arguments to supports its allegation that Seselj committed crimes against humanity."

Which is to say there was no evidence against him. Which is kind of peculiar, because when Serbs are usually being charged in the Hague, lack of evidence is proof of guilt.

I guess they thought Seselj offended Serbs more being out of jail than in.

They could be wrong about that.

One of the most revealing aspects of ICTY’s corruption of justice is seen on its web site. The homepage on March 31 and April 1 has no mention of acquittal (only that a verdict was delivered).

Similarly, the ICTY press release does not refer to acquittal in its title. The website homepage and press release titles refuse to use the term acquittal, and both have chosen to highlight the dissenting opinion.

Truly laughable that the ICTY is ashamed of its own judgments!!!

Such bias may be pleasing to blind ICTY apologists but reputable jurists have long ago distanced themselves from such a shocking and blatant disregard for the concept justice.