Peggy: We are talking at cross purposes. You are right, Sarajevo is predominantly Muslim although in the Federation side there are also a large number of Croats. The point I made (again) is that there is a difference between a city or country that is overwhelmingly Muslim and an Islamic state. There is no evidence that anyone in authority is attempting to replace the (limited) democracy that exists in Bosnia with any other form of government. Of course it would better to be able to remove the bracketed word in the last sentence.
Haris Siladzic former Bosnian minister and war criminal to Serbs, Croats and Bosnian Muslims who would not hesitate in killing his own people was appointed within the Erdogan Turkish government for a reason. To continue the Islamization and the falsification and eradication of Serbian history in B&H.
You see, there are no borders in Islamic states. Donald Trump raised the issue. of Ted Cruz being born in Canada while Siladzic is welcomed with open arms in Turkey.
Hitler removed the Gavrilo Princip Monument in Sarajevo, Tito returned it albeit limiting the Serbian historical significance, the Bosnian Muslims have completely eradicated it. Need I remind you that there were 10 members of the Black Hand who participated in the plot to kill Archduke Ferdinand and some included Bosnian Muslims , one of them actually threw a grenade at Ferdinand's car and the route was changed. What an affront to history when this fake Bosnian Muslim Federation tries to alter the history of Sarajevo. You have the audacity to claim some sort of legitimacy of this unholy Bosnian Federation.
Peggy: The BBI Centar was funded entirely by overseas governments on the condition that there was no alcohol, betting shops or pork. Faced with this choice and the fact that it causes very little inconvenience, the government sensibly accepted the conditions.
============================
Sensibly?
It says a lot about where things are heading. I was born there and I can tell you that I have never seen burquas there before. So what if there is an Orthodox church there when there are no parishioners there. Once the priest is gone what would be the point of replacing him?
The primary schools I attended had it's name changed to a Muslim name. Everything is so Islamised that it's obvious that Sarajevo is for Muslims only and you tell us that they want a multicultural society there. The few Christians who remain will disappear in time. Their sons and daughters will marry Muslims and raise Muslim kids because there really are so few Christians to marry.
Bosnia is NOT Yugoslavia where everyone was feeling at home no matter how hard they want us to think that.
Jugoslavija: It is you who are missing the point. No-one, not even Peggy, has yet mentioned the Reis or any other religious figure (mullahs as you refer to them) in their comments on this issue of an Islamic state. Furthermore, the International Community were not running Iran in 1979 as they are BiH. I'll repeat, no-one wants this other than a couple of hundred lunatics living in Northern Bosnia. There was a groundswell of support for radical change in Iran and for the return of Khomeini from exile, there is no such support for any religious figure in BiH which is ever more secular.
Try opening an Orthodox church in a real Islamic state like Tehran.
(ned taylor, 29 January 2016 17:04) # Comment link
That is exactly the point! If you remember, Iran was one of the most moderate Islamic states under the Shah of Iran, that quickly changed when Khomeni and the Mullahs took over. The Christian populations have been wiped out in Iraq and Syria and it will be only a matter of time the same will happen in B&H. The Serbs have a right to live in a Christian Country not a "Pseudo Multicultural" state run my Bosnian Muslims.
Peggy: The BBI Centar was funded entirely by overseas governments on the condition that there was no alcohol, betting shops or pork. Faced with this choice and the fact that it causes very little inconvenience, the government sensibly accepted the conditions. The other 3 new centars Al-Shiddi, Alta and Importanne have no such restrictions and within a few metres of the BBI Centar you can buy pork and alcohol and bet your life away. You are right, many non-Muslims have not returned but there is a distinct difference between a country with a majority population and an Islamic state. The reasons for non-return are the same in Sarajevo for Serbs as they are in Banja Luka for Muslims, they do not feel welcome. The fact remains that there is an Orthodox church and a catholic cathedral right in the middle of Sarajevo which suffer no vandalism or graffiti or any sort of threats from local government or Muslim religious leaders. Try opening an Orthodox church in a real Islamic state like Tehran.
. Of course there are a limited number of zealots numbering in the hundreds who not only want AN Islamic state but prefer THE Islamic State but they are a tiny, albeit potential deadly, minority.
(ned taylor, 27 January 2016 19:10)
================================
The Nazis were a minority at first too and look what happened.
Bakir Izetbegovic is a product of his father who was trying to create a Muslim rule Bosnia. I don't have to tell you that Sarajevo is not multi ethnic any longer. Most non- Muslims have left and are not returning. If things are fine why are they not back? Also, why have they built a shopping center there in which you won't find pork or alcohol for sale? Any ideas? So spare me the new and improved unity and brotherhood in Bosnia.
How much do Croats from Mostar and Muslims like each other? Bosnia is not functional and can never be. If Muslims wanted a secular all faiths included country to live in they had Yugoslavia. Why break away?
Naser looks like a Turkoslav (mixed slav with turk)! and for all you delusional people, sure Bosnians go out drinking, don't pray, don't follow islam, but go see how many stupid Bosnian women are covering their heads in rags! Is this some kind of message they are doing on purpose?
Jugoslavija: I read this nonsense about an Islamic state endlessly on here. Very few Bosnian Muslims have any interest at all in anything other than a secular state that allows them to go on living as Western Europeans do, drinking, shagging, wearing whatever clothes they want. I personally know hundreds of Bosniaks and not a single one goes to the Mosque once a year let alone 5 times a day. The leading politicians do not want such an entity either as it would take all the power away from them and hand it to the Reis and his mates. Of course there are a limited number of zealots numbering in the hundreds who not only want AN Islamic state but prefer THE Islamic State but they are a tiny, albeit potential deadly, minority.
Bosniaks are ethnic southern Slavs mostly from Bosnia, who don't consider themselves Croat or Serb. Bosnia is a real country and Bosniak is a real nationality. Your argument about artificial states is so outdated. Using your nationality/ethnicity criteria, the United States is an artificial country. So what village are you from again with that 18th century mentality?
(LK, 27 January 2016 16:55)
"Bosniaks" are Serbs or Croats that came to the region in the 6-7th century. Bosnian Muslims are remnants from TURKS and some Serbs or Croats that were converted. Bosnia and Herzegovina is not a real country or a nationality but created by the "Bosnian Muslims" to try to create a Islamic state in the middle of Europe. Yugoslavia was a larger Bosnia but it did not suite the needs of a minority of Bosnian Muslims, so they helped destroy it and create a "Mini-Yugoslavia" so that they can wield more power. No Serb or Croat call themselves "Bosniaks". Obviously a village far bigger than then the *hole you got shot out of.
"Who are "Bosniaks" mental midget? They are Serbs and Croats, "Bosniaks" or "Muslims" is not a nationality. East Germany is an artificial country just like Bosnia and Herzegovina.
(Jugoslavija, 27 January 2016 00:27) "
Bosniaks are ethnic southern Slavs mostly from Bosnia, who don't consider themselves Croat or Serb. Bosnia is a real country and Bosniak is a real nationality. Your argument about artificial states is so outdated. Using your nationality/ethnicity criteria, the United States is an artificial country. So what village are you from again with that 18th century mentality?
"First of all, a Bosnian Muslim state does not exist;"
Can you count? The Bosnian Muslims are the majority in the so called "Muslim-Croat" side of the federation.
"Second, nobody has forced anybody to live together in Bosnia-Hwrzegovina. All parties agreed to live together in a single country."
You are eight blind, deaf or dumb. B&H was bombed by NATO, the US armed the Croatians who launched an offensive breaking through UN lines in Croatia and parts of B&H. Milosevic intervened and took over the negotiations away from Karadzic after a deal was cut with Holbrook. If that is not forced, I don't know what it is. According to you and some in the international arena consider Milosevic a war criminal, if so, the Dayton accords are not worth the paper they are signed on.
All states are "artificial" and man made
You might have a point, you came to this world through artificial insemination.
Bosnia and Herzegovina never was a "state" or "country" just like Kosovo or FYROM. Kosovo was a vilyet under the Ottoman empire and has nothing to do with your Illyrian fantasies and Macedonians are Greek.
(icj1, 27 January 2016 14:15) nobody has forced anybody to live together in Bosnia-Hwrzegovina (sic). All parties agreed to live together in a single country.
----
Dude, All Croats, Bosnian Muslims and all Serbs used to live in a single country. The post Yuogslavia debacle is anything but a "single country".
However, the Serbs and Croats for that matter should not be forced to live under an artificial Bosnian Muslim state created by the Dayton Accords.
(Jugoslavija, 27 January 2016 00:40)
First of all, a Bosnian Muslim state does not exist; there are many non-muslims, including Serbs and Croats that live in Bosnia-Herzegovina making up almost half of the country.
Second, nobody has forced anybody to live together in Bosnia-Hwrzegovina. All parties agreed to live together in a single country.
Third, I'm not aware of any state being "natural". All states are "artificial" and man made and Bosnia-Herzegovina is no exception :)
Mohammed Ali's hatred of the names that Africans historically acquired upon their enslavement by white Europeans in America is justified. A Slavic boxer may similarly hate the names acquired or imposed by historical oppression.
Dragoljub Djurkovic : “Satan inflicts on man kind .,.. Why does one brother walk with God and the other with Satan?”
My dear friend I am afraid to disappoint you but Satan is dead since 1204. You mention him so many times that I once gave a comment about it. As you know Satan was a fallen Angel who went against God. Together with the Komnins and the Paleologs the Angels were one of the few ruling dynasties of the Byzantine. Jesus aka Andronicus I Komnin aka Andrey Bogolubski entered Jerusalem in 1182 and ruled here for 3 years. But in 1185 the Angels arranged a plot against the Savior. The rest is more or less truly described in the Bible. If you say so I can detalize names and geographic names.
Anyway lifetime name of Satan was Isaac II Angelos. He betrayed Jesus and killed him seizing his chair. But the Angels ruled not long because the Russians within 4 Crusader wars destroyed this Armenian dynasty and killed them all. It was the avenge for Jesus. Now a few words of how Angels became Satan. This word Isaak II liked to add to his family name while bull’s head was the court of war of the Angels dynasty. This is why the Satan was painted with bull’s horns. By the way the two headed eagle on the Serbian flag was the emblem of the Komnin dynasty to which Jesus belonged.
ned taylor: “All were Slavs under the Ottomans, some chose to convert completely to Islam, others went along with it (they had to) but never embraced the religion ... they simply chose to follow Allah.”
Not quite so as :
1/ Ottomans had almost nothing to do with the Turks who formed as a nation only in 20-th century.
2/ Ottomans were Slav people of the Balkans who colonized Anatolia in mid-15 century. And of course Slavs were never discriminated before early 19 century.
3/ Ottoman empire was the best place in the world from religious point and the Orthodox Christians (milliet-I Rum) were the most privileged in the Ottoman empire in 15-16 centuries when the Sultans prayed in the St. Irine’s Church.
4/ Islam didn’t appear as a separate religion but as a Nestorian sect inside the Orthodox Christianity. So when people changed their religion it was not always a treason. They simply had no church in the nearby or they believed that the Islamic version of Jesus was more truthful or they tried to avoid additional taxes ect.
5/ Allah ( Alaor or Ili ) was one of the names used by the Orthodox Christians for God and in our churches. There are some prays where the word is still used in this meaning.
6/ Both Islam and Christianity changed much after the fall of the Great Horde while the old rules were rather similar. Christians could have upto 4 wives, Muslims drank alcohol, mosques looked eastwards and were designed like churches ect. ect.
Nope, Bosniaks are southern Slavs just like Serbs, Croats, Slovenes, Montenegrins, Macedonians, and Bulgarians. Not sure what Communist east Germany has anything to do with Bosniaks in Bosnia except to make a stupid comparison. But what is to be expected from someone who called a fellow Slav a Turk? What little village do you come from?
(LK, 26 January 2016 19:35)
Who are "Bosniaks" mental midget? They are Serbs and Croats, "Bosniaks" or "Muslims" is not a nationality. East Germany is an artificial country just like Bosnia and Herzegovina.
ort of tainted purity amongst Bosniaks is simply wrong and worryingly Hitleresque in its conception. Cassius Clay became Mohammed Ali but his blood didn't change.
(ned taylor, 26 January 2016 20:30)
I am talking about the creation of an artificial state and you are talking about ethnic purity.
By the way, Cassius Clay is a traitor to the US by failing to serve in Vietnam.
Jugoslavija: I'll credit you with being honest and not hiding your hatred of the Bosnian Muslims;
(ned taylor, 26 January 2016 20:30)
I have absolutely nothing against Bosnia or Herzegovina and the people who live in that region. However, the Serbs and Croats for that matter should not be forced to live under an artificial Bosnian Muslim state created by the Dayton Accords.
Bosnia and Herzegovina was never a Country, only kingdoms of Bosnian Serbs and Croats that were eventually invaded by the Ottoman Turks who did convert some Serbs and Croats to the Islamic faith while other Turks remained in the region. The point is that Romania, Bulgaria and Greece were also under Ottoman rule but they did not create fake nationalities to appease the Muslims. The same can be said about "Macedonians", another artificial Country which comprises of mostly Bulgarians, Serbians, Albanians and some Greeks.
Bosna i Herzegovina in the sacred cradle of the Balkans! Srbija must commit it self to achieving and securing total peace of that region! A melting pot of three major religions Muslum, Roman Catholic and Christian Eastern Orthodox! How do we difine peace, is it written on a piece of paper or is it dwelling within our hearts? All of these demons who commited horrific crimes of humanity, will we blame all the souls of Bosna i Herzegovina with their crimes? Criminals are the problem, no matter who, what or which religion they belong. We must be very carefull not to punish any religion or innocent humanity that got in the middle of this mess Satan inflicts on man kind. The ones who light the fires and those who pour gasoline to escalate the terror must be the ones held accountable! I still believe peace and understanding can come to Bosna i Herzegovina, we all are responsable to make it a reality! The criminal and the "entity" hand in hand together for ever! Not all poeple are bad, you all must of hear that many times, right? Why does one brother walk with God and the other with Satan? How far apart are we really in Bosna i Herzegovina, just look at the common culture, food and music! So do we need to murder each other in the name of God who we the rightous all adore? In Bosna i Herzegovina better we the innocent humanity concentrate more on resolving the criminal issues and mend our wounds and broken hearts! Will Peace and Liberty ever truely become reality in the Balkans!!!
Sillyyou: I can see why you gave yourself the name. They are the sort of names that result from the history that Bosnia has, as you well know. One could just as reasonably ask "what sort of name is Obama for an American" following your logic. Bernard Tomic is Australian, Milos Raonic is Canadian and Mohammed Ali is an American(ned taylor, 26 January 2016 13:17
=======================================
That's where you're wrong. Bernard Tomic is an Australian citizen but he wasn't born here and his own father said they were Croatian. When he had that little spat with Llayton Hewitt his father said that Llayton had a problem with them being Croatian. Milos Raonic holds a Canadian citizenship and grew up in Canada but he would definitely know where his ethnicity comes from. Ali converted to Islam and gave himself a Muslim name. This doesn't take away from his ethnicity but he chose a name from ME (the prophet himself) to identify with Islam which goes to show just how domestic you might be but your heart is somewhere else.
Bosnian Muslims were to most part Serbs and to a lesser part Croatians who converted to Islam and adopted names which are not native to that land so asking what sort of Slavs have those names is legitimate. All names have their origin and choosing names based on a religion which was imposed in a certain area tells just how much your loyalties lie to the religion and not a country.Obama's loyalty is still debatable.
Jugoslavija: I'll credit you with being honest and not hiding your hatred of the Bosnian Muslims; many others dress theirs up in fancy words. Of course you are wrong, but you are fully entitled to be. All were Slavs under the Ottomans, some chose to convert completely to Islam, others went along with it (they had to) but never embraced the religion. Your blood and their blood is the same, they simply chose to follow Allah. Clearly a few of the marauding Turks would have planted their seed as did American GIs in the UK but the idea that there is some sort of tainted purity amongst Bosniaks is simply wrong and worryingly Hitleresque in its conception. Cassius Clay became Mohammed Ali but his blood didn't change.
"They are Turks , that is the point. Do you see the Turks in Bulgaria call themselves Vardarians or Plovdivians? Do you see the Turks in Germany call themselves Prussians? Western Europe and the US created the Dayton Accords and a so called state of Bosnia which is essentially a region comprised of Serbs, Croats and Turks. It will not last just like East Germany did not last.
(jugolsavija, 26 January 2016 16:56)"
Nope, Bosniaks are southern Slavs just like Serbs, Croats, Slovenes, Montenegrins, Macedonians, and Bulgarians. Not sure what Communist east Germany has anything to do with Bosniaks in Bosnia except to make a stupid comparison. But what is to be expected from someone who called a fellow Slav a Turk? What little village do you come from?
what point were you making exactly other than that you don't like muslims and wish to ridicule them?
(ned taylor, 26 January 2016 13:17)
They are Turks , that is the point. Do you see the Turks in Bulgaria call themselves Vardarians or Plovdivians? Do you see the Turks in Germany call themselves Prussians? Western Europe and the US created the Dayton Accords and a so called state of Bosnia which is essentially a region comprised of Serbs, Croats and Turks. It will not last just like East Germany did not last.
Serbs live in ethnically clean Sprska were 95 percent of the population is serb, get this appeasement and still dare to talk about rdferendum while whining about Kosovo.
(shamefulpeople, 26 January 2016 14:40)
95% isn't ethnically clean since there's a 5% minority. You know, kind of like large parts of Kosova where Albanians haven't seen a Serb since 1999 but do whatever it takes to prevent any of them from returning.
Serbs live in ethnically clean Sprska were 95 percent of the population is serb, get this appeasement and still dare to talk about rdferendum while whining about Kosovo.
Sillyyou: I can see why you gave yourself the name. They are the sort of names that result from the history that Bosnia has, as you well know. One could just as reasonably ask "what sort of name is Obama for an American" following your logic. Bernard Tomic is Australian, Milos Raonic is Canadian and Mohammed Ali is an American..........what point were you making exactly other than that you don't like muslims and wish to ridicule them?
Serbs live in ethnically clean Sprska were 95 percent of the population is serb, get this appeasement and still dare to talk about rdferendum while whining about Kosovo.
(shamefulpeople, 26 January 2016 14:40)
95% isn't ethnically clean since there's a 5% minority. You know, kind of like large parts of Kosova where Albanians haven't seen a Serb since 1999 but do whatever it takes to prevent any of them from returning.
what point were you making exactly other than that you don't like muslims and wish to ridicule them?
(ned taylor, 26 January 2016 13:17)
They are Turks , that is the point. Do you see the Turks in Bulgaria call themselves Vardarians or Plovdivians? Do you see the Turks in Germany call themselves Prussians? Western Europe and the US created the Dayton Accords and a so called state of Bosnia which is essentially a region comprised of Serbs, Croats and Turks. It will not last just like East Germany did not last.
Sillyyou: I can see why you gave yourself the name. They are the sort of names that result from the history that Bosnia has, as you well know. One could just as reasonably ask "what sort of name is Obama for an American" following your logic. Bernard Tomic is Australian, Milos Raonic is Canadian and Mohammed Ali is an American..........what point were you making exactly other than that you don't like muslims and wish to ridicule them?
Serbs live in ethnically clean Sprska were 95 percent of the population is serb, get this appeasement and still dare to talk about rdferendum while whining about Kosovo.
Jugoslavija: I'll credit you with being honest and not hiding your hatred of the Bosnian Muslims;
(ned taylor, 26 January 2016 20:30)
I have absolutely nothing against Bosnia or Herzegovina and the people who live in that region. However, the Serbs and Croats for that matter should not be forced to live under an artificial Bosnian Muslim state created by the Dayton Accords.
Bosnia and Herzegovina was never a Country, only kingdoms of Bosnian Serbs and Croats that were eventually invaded by the Ottoman Turks who did convert some Serbs and Croats to the Islamic faith while other Turks remained in the region. The point is that Romania, Bulgaria and Greece were also under Ottoman rule but they did not create fake nationalities to appease the Muslims. The same can be said about "Macedonians", another artificial Country which comprises of mostly Bulgarians, Serbians, Albanians and some Greeks.
Jugoslavija: I'll credit you with being honest and not hiding your hatred of the Bosnian Muslims; many others dress theirs up in fancy words. Of course you are wrong, but you are fully entitled to be. All were Slavs under the Ottomans, some chose to convert completely to Islam, others went along with it (they had to) but never embraced the religion. Your blood and their blood is the same, they simply chose to follow Allah. Clearly a few of the marauding Turks would have planted their seed as did American GIs in the UK but the idea that there is some sort of tainted purity amongst Bosniaks is simply wrong and worryingly Hitleresque in its conception. Cassius Clay became Mohammed Ali but his blood didn't change.
"They are Turks , that is the point. Do you see the Turks in Bulgaria call themselves Vardarians or Plovdivians? Do you see the Turks in Germany call themselves Prussians? Western Europe and the US created the Dayton Accords and a so called state of Bosnia which is essentially a region comprised of Serbs, Croats and Turks. It will not last just like East Germany did not last.
(jugolsavija, 26 January 2016 16:56)"
Nope, Bosniaks are southern Slavs just like Serbs, Croats, Slovenes, Montenegrins, Macedonians, and Bulgarians. Not sure what Communist east Germany has anything to do with Bosniaks in Bosnia except to make a stupid comparison. But what is to be expected from someone who called a fellow Slav a Turk? What little village do you come from?
"Who are "Bosniaks" mental midget? They are Serbs and Croats, "Bosniaks" or "Muslims" is not a nationality. East Germany is an artificial country just like Bosnia and Herzegovina.
(Jugoslavija, 27 January 2016 00:27) "
Bosniaks are ethnic southern Slavs mostly from Bosnia, who don't consider themselves Croat or Serb. Bosnia is a real country and Bosniak is a real nationality. Your argument about artificial states is so outdated. Using your nationality/ethnicity criteria, the United States is an artificial country. So what village are you from again with that 18th century mentality?
Bosna i Herzegovina in the sacred cradle of the Balkans! Srbija must commit it self to achieving and securing total peace of that region! A melting pot of three major religions Muslum, Roman Catholic and Christian Eastern Orthodox! How do we difine peace, is it written on a piece of paper or is it dwelling within our hearts? All of these demons who commited horrific crimes of humanity, will we blame all the souls of Bosna i Herzegovina with their crimes? Criminals are the problem, no matter who, what or which religion they belong. We must be very carefull not to punish any religion or innocent humanity that got in the middle of this mess Satan inflicts on man kind. The ones who light the fires and those who pour gasoline to escalate the terror must be the ones held accountable! I still believe peace and understanding can come to Bosna i Herzegovina, we all are responsable to make it a reality! The criminal and the "entity" hand in hand together for ever! Not all poeple are bad, you all must of hear that many times, right? Why does one brother walk with God and the other with Satan? How far apart are we really in Bosna i Herzegovina, just look at the common culture, food and music! So do we need to murder each other in the name of God who we the rightous all adore? In Bosna i Herzegovina better we the innocent humanity concentrate more on resolving the criminal issues and mend our wounds and broken hearts! Will Peace and Liberty ever truely become reality in the Balkans!!!
Nope, Bosniaks are southern Slavs just like Serbs, Croats, Slovenes, Montenegrins, Macedonians, and Bulgarians. Not sure what Communist east Germany has anything to do with Bosniaks in Bosnia except to make a stupid comparison. But what is to be expected from someone who called a fellow Slav a Turk? What little village do you come from?
(LK, 26 January 2016 19:35)
Who are "Bosniaks" mental midget? They are Serbs and Croats, "Bosniaks" or "Muslims" is not a nationality. East Germany is an artificial country just like Bosnia and Herzegovina.
ned taylor: “All were Slavs under the Ottomans, some chose to convert completely to Islam, others went along with it (they had to) but never embraced the religion ... they simply chose to follow Allah.”
Not quite so as :
1/ Ottomans had almost nothing to do with the Turks who formed as a nation only in 20-th century.
2/ Ottomans were Slav people of the Balkans who colonized Anatolia in mid-15 century. And of course Slavs were never discriminated before early 19 century.
3/ Ottoman empire was the best place in the world from religious point and the Orthodox Christians (milliet-I Rum) were the most privileged in the Ottoman empire in 15-16 centuries when the Sultans prayed in the St. Irine’s Church.
4/ Islam didn’t appear as a separate religion but as a Nestorian sect inside the Orthodox Christianity. So when people changed their religion it was not always a treason. They simply had no church in the nearby or they believed that the Islamic version of Jesus was more truthful or they tried to avoid additional taxes ect.
5/ Allah ( Alaor or Ili ) was one of the names used by the Orthodox Christians for God and in our churches. There are some prays where the word is still used in this meaning.
6/ Both Islam and Christianity changed much after the fall of the Great Horde while the old rules were rather similar. Christians could have upto 4 wives, Muslims drank alcohol, mosques looked eastwards and were designed like churches ect. ect.
Dragoljub Djurkovic : “Satan inflicts on man kind .,.. Why does one brother walk with God and the other with Satan?”
My dear friend I am afraid to disappoint you but Satan is dead since 1204. You mention him so many times that I once gave a comment about it. As you know Satan was a fallen Angel who went against God. Together with the Komnins and the Paleologs the Angels were one of the few ruling dynasties of the Byzantine. Jesus aka Andronicus I Komnin aka Andrey Bogolubski entered Jerusalem in 1182 and ruled here for 3 years. But in 1185 the Angels arranged a plot against the Savior. The rest is more or less truly described in the Bible. If you say so I can detalize names and geographic names.
Anyway lifetime name of Satan was Isaac II Angelos. He betrayed Jesus and killed him seizing his chair. But the Angels ruled not long because the Russians within 4 Crusader wars destroyed this Armenian dynasty and killed them all. It was the avenge for Jesus. Now a few words of how Angels became Satan. This word Isaak II liked to add to his family name while bull’s head was the court of war of the Angels dynasty. This is why the Satan was painted with bull’s horns. By the way the two headed eagle on the Serbian flag was the emblem of the Komnin dynasty to which Jesus belonged.
"First of all, a Bosnian Muslim state does not exist;"
Can you count? The Bosnian Muslims are the majority in the so called "Muslim-Croat" side of the federation.
"Second, nobody has forced anybody to live together in Bosnia-Hwrzegovina. All parties agreed to live together in a single country."
You are eight blind, deaf or dumb. B&H was bombed by NATO, the US armed the Croatians who launched an offensive breaking through UN lines in Croatia and parts of B&H. Milosevic intervened and took over the negotiations away from Karadzic after a deal was cut with Holbrook. If that is not forced, I don't know what it is. According to you and some in the international arena consider Milosevic a war criminal, if so, the Dayton accords are not worth the paper they are signed on.
All states are "artificial" and man made
You might have a point, you came to this world through artificial insemination.
Bosnia and Herzegovina never was a "state" or "country" just like Kosovo or FYROM. Kosovo was a vilyet under the Ottoman empire and has nothing to do with your Illyrian fantasies and Macedonians are Greek.
Bosniaks are ethnic southern Slavs mostly from Bosnia, who don't consider themselves Croat or Serb. Bosnia is a real country and Bosniak is a real nationality. Your argument about artificial states is so outdated. Using your nationality/ethnicity criteria, the United States is an artificial country. So what village are you from again with that 18th century mentality?
(LK, 27 January 2016 16:55)
"Bosniaks" are Serbs or Croats that came to the region in the 6-7th century. Bosnian Muslims are remnants from TURKS and some Serbs or Croats that were converted. Bosnia and Herzegovina is not a real country or a nationality but created by the "Bosnian Muslims" to try to create a Islamic state in the middle of Europe. Yugoslavia was a larger Bosnia but it did not suite the needs of a minority of Bosnian Muslims, so they helped destroy it and create a "Mini-Yugoslavia" so that they can wield more power. No Serb or Croat call themselves "Bosniaks". Obviously a village far bigger than then the *hole you got shot out of.
Naser looks like a Turkoslav (mixed slav with turk)! and for all you delusional people, sure Bosnians go out drinking, don't pray, don't follow islam, but go see how many stupid Bosnian women are covering their heads in rags! Is this some kind of message they are doing on purpose?
Try opening an Orthodox church in a real Islamic state like Tehran.
(ned taylor, 29 January 2016 17:04) # Comment link
That is exactly the point! If you remember, Iran was one of the most moderate Islamic states under the Shah of Iran, that quickly changed when Khomeni and the Mullahs took over. The Christian populations have been wiped out in Iraq and Syria and it will be only a matter of time the same will happen in B&H. The Serbs have a right to live in a Christian Country not a "Pseudo Multicultural" state run my Bosnian Muslims.
However, the Serbs and Croats for that matter should not be forced to live under an artificial Bosnian Muslim state created by the Dayton Accords.
(Jugoslavija, 27 January 2016 00:40)
First of all, a Bosnian Muslim state does not exist; there are many non-muslims, including Serbs and Croats that live in Bosnia-Herzegovina making up almost half of the country.
Second, nobody has forced anybody to live together in Bosnia-Hwrzegovina. All parties agreed to live together in a single country.
Third, I'm not aware of any state being "natural". All states are "artificial" and man made and Bosnia-Herzegovina is no exception :)
(icj1, 27 January 2016 14:15) nobody has forced anybody to live together in Bosnia-Hwrzegovina (sic). All parties agreed to live together in a single country.
----
Dude, All Croats, Bosnian Muslims and all Serbs used to live in a single country. The post Yuogslavia debacle is anything but a "single country".
Jugoslavija: I read this nonsense about an Islamic state endlessly on here. Very few Bosnian Muslims have any interest at all in anything other than a secular state that allows them to go on living as Western Europeans do, drinking, shagging, wearing whatever clothes they want. I personally know hundreds of Bosniaks and not a single one goes to the Mosque once a year let alone 5 times a day. The leading politicians do not want such an entity either as it would take all the power away from them and hand it to the Reis and his mates. Of course there are a limited number of zealots numbering in the hundreds who not only want AN Islamic state but prefer THE Islamic State but they are a tiny, albeit potential deadly, minority.
Peggy: The BBI Centar was funded entirely by overseas governments on the condition that there was no alcohol, betting shops or pork. Faced with this choice and the fact that it causes very little inconvenience, the government sensibly accepted the conditions.
============================
Sensibly?
It says a lot about where things are heading. I was born there and I can tell you that I have never seen burquas there before. So what if there is an Orthodox church there when there are no parishioners there. Once the priest is gone what would be the point of replacing him?
The primary schools I attended had it's name changed to a Muslim name. Everything is so Islamised that it's obvious that Sarajevo is for Muslims only and you tell us that they want a multicultural society there. The few Christians who remain will disappear in time. Their sons and daughters will marry Muslims and raise Muslim kids because there really are so few Christians to marry.
Bosnia is NOT Yugoslavia where everyone was feeling at home no matter how hard they want us to think that.
ort of tainted purity amongst Bosniaks is simply wrong and worryingly Hitleresque in its conception. Cassius Clay became Mohammed Ali but his blood didn't change.
(ned taylor, 26 January 2016 20:30)
I am talking about the creation of an artificial state and you are talking about ethnic purity.
By the way, Cassius Clay is a traitor to the US by failing to serve in Vietnam.
Mohammed Ali's hatred of the names that Africans historically acquired upon their enslavement by white Europeans in America is justified. A Slavic boxer may similarly hate the names acquired or imposed by historical oppression.
. Of course there are a limited number of zealots numbering in the hundreds who not only want AN Islamic state but prefer THE Islamic State but they are a tiny, albeit potential deadly, minority.
(ned taylor, 27 January 2016 19:10)
================================
The Nazis were a minority at first too and look what happened.
Bakir Izetbegovic is a product of his father who was trying to create a Muslim rule Bosnia. I don't have to tell you that Sarajevo is not multi ethnic any longer. Most non- Muslims have left and are not returning. If things are fine why are they not back? Also, why have they built a shopping center there in which you won't find pork or alcohol for sale? Any ideas? So spare me the new and improved unity and brotherhood in Bosnia.
How much do Croats from Mostar and Muslims like each other? Bosnia is not functional and can never be. If Muslims wanted a secular all faiths included country to live in they had Yugoslavia. Why break away?
Sillyyou: I can see why you gave yourself the name. They are the sort of names that result from the history that Bosnia has, as you well know. One could just as reasonably ask "what sort of name is Obama for an American" following your logic. Bernard Tomic is Australian, Milos Raonic is Canadian and Mohammed Ali is an American(ned taylor, 26 January 2016 13:17
=======================================
That's where you're wrong. Bernard Tomic is an Australian citizen but he wasn't born here and his own father said they were Croatian. When he had that little spat with Llayton Hewitt his father said that Llayton had a problem with them being Croatian. Milos Raonic holds a Canadian citizenship and grew up in Canada but he would definitely know where his ethnicity comes from. Ali converted to Islam and gave himself a Muslim name. This doesn't take away from his ethnicity but he chose a name from ME (the prophet himself) to identify with Islam which goes to show just how domestic you might be but your heart is somewhere else.
Bosnian Muslims were to most part Serbs and to a lesser part Croatians who converted to Islam and adopted names which are not native to that land so asking what sort of Slavs have those names is legitimate. All names have their origin and choosing names based on a religion which was imposed in a certain area tells just how much your loyalties lie to the religion and not a country.Obama's loyalty is still debatable.
Haris Siladzic former Bosnian minister and war criminal to Serbs, Croats and Bosnian Muslims who would not hesitate in killing his own people was appointed within the Erdogan Turkish government for a reason. To continue the Islamization and the falsification and eradication of Serbian history in B&H.
You see, there are no borders in Islamic states. Donald Trump raised the issue. of Ted Cruz being born in Canada while Siladzic is welcomed with open arms in Turkey.
Hitler removed the Gavrilo Princip Monument in Sarajevo, Tito returned it albeit limiting the Serbian historical significance, the Bosnian Muslims have completely eradicated it. Need I remind you that there were 10 members of the Black Hand who participated in the plot to kill Archduke Ferdinand and some included Bosnian Muslims , one of them actually threw a grenade at Ferdinand's car and the route was changed. What an affront to history when this fake Bosnian Muslim Federation tries to alter the history of Sarajevo. You have the audacity to claim some sort of legitimacy of this unholy Bosnian Federation.
Peggy: The BBI Centar was funded entirely by overseas governments on the condition that there was no alcohol, betting shops or pork. Faced with this choice and the fact that it causes very little inconvenience, the government sensibly accepted the conditions. The other 3 new centars Al-Shiddi, Alta and Importanne have no such restrictions and within a few metres of the BBI Centar you can buy pork and alcohol and bet your life away. You are right, many non-Muslims have not returned but there is a distinct difference between a country with a majority population and an Islamic state. The reasons for non-return are the same in Sarajevo for Serbs as they are in Banja Luka for Muslims, they do not feel welcome. The fact remains that there is an Orthodox church and a catholic cathedral right in the middle of Sarajevo which suffer no vandalism or graffiti or any sort of threats from local government or Muslim religious leaders. Try opening an Orthodox church in a real Islamic state like Tehran.
Jugoslavija: It is you who are missing the point. No-one, not even Peggy, has yet mentioned the Reis or any other religious figure (mullahs as you refer to them) in their comments on this issue of an Islamic state. Furthermore, the International Community were not running Iran in 1979 as they are BiH. I'll repeat, no-one wants this other than a couple of hundred lunatics living in Northern Bosnia. There was a groundswell of support for radical change in Iran and for the return of Khomeini from exile, there is no such support for any religious figure in BiH which is ever more secular.
Peggy: We are talking at cross purposes. You are right, Sarajevo is predominantly Muslim although in the Federation side there are also a large number of Croats. The point I made (again) is that there is a difference between a city or country that is overwhelmingly Muslim and an Islamic state. There is no evidence that anyone in authority is attempting to replace the (limited) democracy that exists in Bosnia with any other form of government. Of course it would better to be able to remove the bracketed word in the last sentence.
Serbs live in ethnically clean Sprska were 95 percent of the population is serb, get this appeasement and still dare to talk about rdferendum while whining about Kosovo.
Serbs live in ethnically clean Sprska were 95 percent of the population is serb, get this appeasement and still dare to talk about rdferendum while whining about Kosovo.
(shamefulpeople, 26 January 2016 14:40)
95% isn't ethnically clean since there's a 5% minority. You know, kind of like large parts of Kosova where Albanians haven't seen a Serb since 1999 but do whatever it takes to prevent any of them from returning.
what point were you making exactly other than that you don't like muslims and wish to ridicule them?
(ned taylor, 26 January 2016 13:17)
They are Turks , that is the point. Do you see the Turks in Bulgaria call themselves Vardarians or Plovdivians? Do you see the Turks in Germany call themselves Prussians? Western Europe and the US created the Dayton Accords and a so called state of Bosnia which is essentially a region comprised of Serbs, Croats and Turks. It will not last just like East Germany did not last.
Sillyyou: I can see why you gave yourself the name. They are the sort of names that result from the history that Bosnia has, as you well know. One could just as reasonably ask "what sort of name is Obama for an American" following your logic. Bernard Tomic is Australian, Milos Raonic is Canadian and Mohammed Ali is an American..........what point were you making exactly other than that you don't like muslims and wish to ridicule them?
"They are Turks , that is the point. Do you see the Turks in Bulgaria call themselves Vardarians or Plovdivians? Do you see the Turks in Germany call themselves Prussians? Western Europe and the US created the Dayton Accords and a so called state of Bosnia which is essentially a region comprised of Serbs, Croats and Turks. It will not last just like East Germany did not last.
(jugolsavija, 26 January 2016 16:56)"
Nope, Bosniaks are southern Slavs just like Serbs, Croats, Slovenes, Montenegrins, Macedonians, and Bulgarians. Not sure what Communist east Germany has anything to do with Bosniaks in Bosnia except to make a stupid comparison. But what is to be expected from someone who called a fellow Slav a Turk? What little village do you come from?
ort of tainted purity amongst Bosniaks is simply wrong and worryingly Hitleresque in its conception. Cassius Clay became Mohammed Ali but his blood didn't change.
(ned taylor, 26 January 2016 20:30)
I am talking about the creation of an artificial state and you are talking about ethnic purity.
By the way, Cassius Clay is a traitor to the US by failing to serve in Vietnam.
Jugoslavija: I'll credit you with being honest and not hiding your hatred of the Bosnian Muslims; many others dress theirs up in fancy words. Of course you are wrong, but you are fully entitled to be. All were Slavs under the Ottomans, some chose to convert completely to Islam, others went along with it (they had to) but never embraced the religion. Your blood and their blood is the same, they simply chose to follow Allah. Clearly a few of the marauding Turks would have planted their seed as did American GIs in the UK but the idea that there is some sort of tainted purity amongst Bosniaks is simply wrong and worryingly Hitleresque in its conception. Cassius Clay became Mohammed Ali but his blood didn't change.
Sillyyou: I can see why you gave yourself the name. They are the sort of names that result from the history that Bosnia has, as you well know. One could just as reasonably ask "what sort of name is Obama for an American" following your logic. Bernard Tomic is Australian, Milos Raonic is Canadian and Mohammed Ali is an American(ned taylor, 26 January 2016 13:17
=======================================
That's where you're wrong. Bernard Tomic is an Australian citizen but he wasn't born here and his own father said they were Croatian. When he had that little spat with Llayton Hewitt his father said that Llayton had a problem with them being Croatian. Milos Raonic holds a Canadian citizenship and grew up in Canada but he would definitely know where his ethnicity comes from. Ali converted to Islam and gave himself a Muslim name. This doesn't take away from his ethnicity but he chose a name from ME (the prophet himself) to identify with Islam which goes to show just how domestic you might be but your heart is somewhere else.
Bosnian Muslims were to most part Serbs and to a lesser part Croatians who converted to Islam and adopted names which are not native to that land so asking what sort of Slavs have those names is legitimate. All names have their origin and choosing names based on a religion which was imposed in a certain area tells just how much your loyalties lie to the religion and not a country.Obama's loyalty is still debatable.
"First of all, a Bosnian Muslim state does not exist;"
Can you count? The Bosnian Muslims are the majority in the so called "Muslim-Croat" side of the federation.
"Second, nobody has forced anybody to live together in Bosnia-Hwrzegovina. All parties agreed to live together in a single country."
You are eight blind, deaf or dumb. B&H was bombed by NATO, the US armed the Croatians who launched an offensive breaking through UN lines in Croatia and parts of B&H. Milosevic intervened and took over the negotiations away from Karadzic after a deal was cut with Holbrook. If that is not forced, I don't know what it is. According to you and some in the international arena consider Milosevic a war criminal, if so, the Dayton accords are not worth the paper they are signed on.
All states are "artificial" and man made
You might have a point, you came to this world through artificial insemination.
Bosnia and Herzegovina never was a "state" or "country" just like Kosovo or FYROM. Kosovo was a vilyet under the Ottoman empire and has nothing to do with your Illyrian fantasies and Macedonians are Greek.
Jugoslavija: I read this nonsense about an Islamic state endlessly on here. Very few Bosnian Muslims have any interest at all in anything other than a secular state that allows them to go on living as Western Europeans do, drinking, shagging, wearing whatever clothes they want. I personally know hundreds of Bosniaks and not a single one goes to the Mosque once a year let alone 5 times a day. The leading politicians do not want such an entity either as it would take all the power away from them and hand it to the Reis and his mates. Of course there are a limited number of zealots numbering in the hundreds who not only want AN Islamic state but prefer THE Islamic State but they are a tiny, albeit potential deadly, minority.
Nope, Bosniaks are southern Slavs just like Serbs, Croats, Slovenes, Montenegrins, Macedonians, and Bulgarians. Not sure what Communist east Germany has anything to do with Bosniaks in Bosnia except to make a stupid comparison. But what is to be expected from someone who called a fellow Slav a Turk? What little village do you come from?
(LK, 26 January 2016 19:35)
Who are "Bosniaks" mental midget? They are Serbs and Croats, "Bosniaks" or "Muslims" is not a nationality. East Germany is an artificial country just like Bosnia and Herzegovina.
Jugoslavija: I'll credit you with being honest and not hiding your hatred of the Bosnian Muslims;
(ned taylor, 26 January 2016 20:30)
I have absolutely nothing against Bosnia or Herzegovina and the people who live in that region. However, the Serbs and Croats for that matter should not be forced to live under an artificial Bosnian Muslim state created by the Dayton Accords.
Bosnia and Herzegovina was never a Country, only kingdoms of Bosnian Serbs and Croats that were eventually invaded by the Ottoman Turks who did convert some Serbs and Croats to the Islamic faith while other Turks remained in the region. The point is that Romania, Bulgaria and Greece were also under Ottoman rule but they did not create fake nationalities to appease the Muslims. The same can be said about "Macedonians", another artificial Country which comprises of mostly Bulgarians, Serbians, Albanians and some Greeks.
ned taylor: “All were Slavs under the Ottomans, some chose to convert completely to Islam, others went along with it (they had to) but never embraced the religion ... they simply chose to follow Allah.”
Not quite so as :
1/ Ottomans had almost nothing to do with the Turks who formed as a nation only in 20-th century.
2/ Ottomans were Slav people of the Balkans who colonized Anatolia in mid-15 century. And of course Slavs were never discriminated before early 19 century.
3/ Ottoman empire was the best place in the world from religious point and the Orthodox Christians (milliet-I Rum) were the most privileged in the Ottoman empire in 15-16 centuries when the Sultans prayed in the St. Irine’s Church.
4/ Islam didn’t appear as a separate religion but as a Nestorian sect inside the Orthodox Christianity. So when people changed their religion it was not always a treason. They simply had no church in the nearby or they believed that the Islamic version of Jesus was more truthful or they tried to avoid additional taxes ect.
5/ Allah ( Alaor or Ili ) was one of the names used by the Orthodox Christians for God and in our churches. There are some prays where the word is still used in this meaning.
6/ Both Islam and Christianity changed much after the fall of the Great Horde while the old rules were rather similar. Christians could have upto 4 wives, Muslims drank alcohol, mosques looked eastwards and were designed like churches ect. ect.
Dragoljub Djurkovic : “Satan inflicts on man kind .,.. Why does one brother walk with God and the other with Satan?”
My dear friend I am afraid to disappoint you but Satan is dead since 1204. You mention him so many times that I once gave a comment about it. As you know Satan was a fallen Angel who went against God. Together with the Komnins and the Paleologs the Angels were one of the few ruling dynasties of the Byzantine. Jesus aka Andronicus I Komnin aka Andrey Bogolubski entered Jerusalem in 1182 and ruled here for 3 years. But in 1185 the Angels arranged a plot against the Savior. The rest is more or less truly described in the Bible. If you say so I can detalize names and geographic names.
Anyway lifetime name of Satan was Isaac II Angelos. He betrayed Jesus and killed him seizing his chair. But the Angels ruled not long because the Russians within 4 Crusader wars destroyed this Armenian dynasty and killed them all. It was the avenge for Jesus. Now a few words of how Angels became Satan. This word Isaak II liked to add to his family name while bull’s head was the court of war of the Angels dynasty. This is why the Satan was painted with bull’s horns. By the way the two headed eagle on the Serbian flag was the emblem of the Komnin dynasty to which Jesus belonged.
However, the Serbs and Croats for that matter should not be forced to live under an artificial Bosnian Muslim state created by the Dayton Accords.
(Jugoslavija, 27 January 2016 00:40)
First of all, a Bosnian Muslim state does not exist; there are many non-muslims, including Serbs and Croats that live in Bosnia-Herzegovina making up almost half of the country.
Second, nobody has forced anybody to live together in Bosnia-Hwrzegovina. All parties agreed to live together in a single country.
Third, I'm not aware of any state being "natural". All states are "artificial" and man made and Bosnia-Herzegovina is no exception :)
Bosniaks are ethnic southern Slavs mostly from Bosnia, who don't consider themselves Croat or Serb. Bosnia is a real country and Bosniak is a real nationality. Your argument about artificial states is so outdated. Using your nationality/ethnicity criteria, the United States is an artificial country. So what village are you from again with that 18th century mentality?
(LK, 27 January 2016 16:55)
"Bosniaks" are Serbs or Croats that came to the region in the 6-7th century. Bosnian Muslims are remnants from TURKS and some Serbs or Croats that were converted. Bosnia and Herzegovina is not a real country or a nationality but created by the "Bosnian Muslims" to try to create a Islamic state in the middle of Europe. Yugoslavia was a larger Bosnia but it did not suite the needs of a minority of Bosnian Muslims, so they helped destroy it and create a "Mini-Yugoslavia" so that they can wield more power. No Serb or Croat call themselves "Bosniaks". Obviously a village far bigger than then the *hole you got shot out of.
Bosna i Herzegovina in the sacred cradle of the Balkans! Srbija must commit it self to achieving and securing total peace of that region! A melting pot of three major religions Muslum, Roman Catholic and Christian Eastern Orthodox! How do we difine peace, is it written on a piece of paper or is it dwelling within our hearts? All of these demons who commited horrific crimes of humanity, will we blame all the souls of Bosna i Herzegovina with their crimes? Criminals are the problem, no matter who, what or which religion they belong. We must be very carefull not to punish any religion or innocent humanity that got in the middle of this mess Satan inflicts on man kind. The ones who light the fires and those who pour gasoline to escalate the terror must be the ones held accountable! I still believe peace and understanding can come to Bosna i Herzegovina, we all are responsable to make it a reality! The criminal and the "entity" hand in hand together for ever! Not all poeple are bad, you all must of hear that many times, right? Why does one brother walk with God and the other with Satan? How far apart are we really in Bosna i Herzegovina, just look at the common culture, food and music! So do we need to murder each other in the name of God who we the rightous all adore? In Bosna i Herzegovina better we the innocent humanity concentrate more on resolving the criminal issues and mend our wounds and broken hearts! Will Peace and Liberty ever truely become reality in the Balkans!!!
"Who are "Bosniaks" mental midget? They are Serbs and Croats, "Bosniaks" or "Muslims" is not a nationality. East Germany is an artificial country just like Bosnia and Herzegovina.
(Jugoslavija, 27 January 2016 00:27) "
Bosniaks are ethnic southern Slavs mostly from Bosnia, who don't consider themselves Croat or Serb. Bosnia is a real country and Bosniak is a real nationality. Your argument about artificial states is so outdated. Using your nationality/ethnicity criteria, the United States is an artificial country. So what village are you from again with that 18th century mentality?
Naser looks like a Turkoslav (mixed slav with turk)! and for all you delusional people, sure Bosnians go out drinking, don't pray, don't follow islam, but go see how many stupid Bosnian women are covering their heads in rags! Is this some kind of message they are doing on purpose?
Peggy: The BBI Centar was funded entirely by overseas governments on the condition that there was no alcohol, betting shops or pork. Faced with this choice and the fact that it causes very little inconvenience, the government sensibly accepted the conditions. The other 3 new centars Al-Shiddi, Alta and Importanne have no such restrictions and within a few metres of the BBI Centar you can buy pork and alcohol and bet your life away. You are right, many non-Muslims have not returned but there is a distinct difference between a country with a majority population and an Islamic state. The reasons for non-return are the same in Sarajevo for Serbs as they are in Banja Luka for Muslims, they do not feel welcome. The fact remains that there is an Orthodox church and a catholic cathedral right in the middle of Sarajevo which suffer no vandalism or graffiti or any sort of threats from local government or Muslim religious leaders. Try opening an Orthodox church in a real Islamic state like Tehran.
Jugoslavija: It is you who are missing the point. No-one, not even Peggy, has yet mentioned the Reis or any other religious figure (mullahs as you refer to them) in their comments on this issue of an Islamic state. Furthermore, the International Community were not running Iran in 1979 as they are BiH. I'll repeat, no-one wants this other than a couple of hundred lunatics living in Northern Bosnia. There was a groundswell of support for radical change in Iran and for the return of Khomeini from exile, there is no such support for any religious figure in BiH which is ever more secular.
Peggy: The BBI Centar was funded entirely by overseas governments on the condition that there was no alcohol, betting shops or pork. Faced with this choice and the fact that it causes very little inconvenience, the government sensibly accepted the conditions.
============================
Sensibly?
It says a lot about where things are heading. I was born there and I can tell you that I have never seen burquas there before. So what if there is an Orthodox church there when there are no parishioners there. Once the priest is gone what would be the point of replacing him?
The primary schools I attended had it's name changed to a Muslim name. Everything is so Islamised that it's obvious that Sarajevo is for Muslims only and you tell us that they want a multicultural society there. The few Christians who remain will disappear in time. Their sons and daughters will marry Muslims and raise Muslim kids because there really are so few Christians to marry.
Bosnia is NOT Yugoslavia where everyone was feeling at home no matter how hard they want us to think that.
Mohammed Ali's hatred of the names that Africans historically acquired upon their enslavement by white Europeans in America is justified. A Slavic boxer may similarly hate the names acquired or imposed by historical oppression.
(icj1, 27 January 2016 14:15) nobody has forced anybody to live together in Bosnia-Hwrzegovina (sic). All parties agreed to live together in a single country.
----
Dude, All Croats, Bosnian Muslims and all Serbs used to live in a single country. The post Yuogslavia debacle is anything but a "single country".
. Of course there are a limited number of zealots numbering in the hundreds who not only want AN Islamic state but prefer THE Islamic State but they are a tiny, albeit potential deadly, minority.
(ned taylor, 27 January 2016 19:10)
================================
The Nazis were a minority at first too and look what happened.
Bakir Izetbegovic is a product of his father who was trying to create a Muslim rule Bosnia. I don't have to tell you that Sarajevo is not multi ethnic any longer. Most non- Muslims have left and are not returning. If things are fine why are they not back? Also, why have they built a shopping center there in which you won't find pork or alcohol for sale? Any ideas? So spare me the new and improved unity and brotherhood in Bosnia.
How much do Croats from Mostar and Muslims like each other? Bosnia is not functional and can never be. If Muslims wanted a secular all faiths included country to live in they had Yugoslavia. Why break away?
Try opening an Orthodox church in a real Islamic state like Tehran.
(ned taylor, 29 January 2016 17:04) # Comment link
That is exactly the point! If you remember, Iran was one of the most moderate Islamic states under the Shah of Iran, that quickly changed when Khomeni and the Mullahs took over. The Christian populations have been wiped out in Iraq and Syria and it will be only a matter of time the same will happen in B&H. The Serbs have a right to live in a Christian Country not a "Pseudo Multicultural" state run my Bosnian Muslims.
Haris Siladzic former Bosnian minister and war criminal to Serbs, Croats and Bosnian Muslims who would not hesitate in killing his own people was appointed within the Erdogan Turkish government for a reason. To continue the Islamization and the falsification and eradication of Serbian history in B&H.
You see, there are no borders in Islamic states. Donald Trump raised the issue. of Ted Cruz being born in Canada while Siladzic is welcomed with open arms in Turkey.
Hitler removed the Gavrilo Princip Monument in Sarajevo, Tito returned it albeit limiting the Serbian historical significance, the Bosnian Muslims have completely eradicated it. Need I remind you that there were 10 members of the Black Hand who participated in the plot to kill Archduke Ferdinand and some included Bosnian Muslims , one of them actually threw a grenade at Ferdinand's car and the route was changed. What an affront to history when this fake Bosnian Muslim Federation tries to alter the history of Sarajevo. You have the audacity to claim some sort of legitimacy of this unholy Bosnian Federation.
Peggy: We are talking at cross purposes. You are right, Sarajevo is predominantly Muslim although in the Federation side there are also a large number of Croats. The point I made (again) is that there is a difference between a city or country that is overwhelmingly Muslim and an Islamic state. There is no evidence that anyone in authority is attempting to replace the (limited) democracy that exists in Bosnia with any other form of government. Of course it would better to be able to remove the bracketed word in the last sentence.
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