Erdogan: We didn't know warplane was Russian

Some people still think we are in the 90s. Look at the world, geopolitics. What happened to Georgia when it got closer to NATO? It lost Abkhazia and South Ossetia. What happened to Ukraine as it pushed towards NATO? It lost Crimea and large parts of the East. What about Serbia? Getting closer to NATO means giving up on KiM. NATO membership these days is a liability, not an asset. Turkey as such will lose large parts to the Kurds.

Russia is fighting terrorists, the Syrian army are fighting terrorists, the Kurds are fighting terrorists while Turkey is fighting Russia, Syria and the Kurds. At the same time it is buying oil from terrorists.

The back peddling has already started. The did not know eh? What a load of horse manure. These Turks knew exactly the situation, but thinking that NATO would stand "shoulder to shoulder" they thought they would be smart.

NATO and the US left Mustapha holding the baby.

What a bald faced lie. Like a bad gambler who who has been caught with extra cards in his pack, there's always a reasonable explanation.

Just keep digging Erdogan. The only way is down.

I wonder what other versions did they have :

1/ Zimbabwe plane
2/ Swedish one
3/ Mongolian
4/ Israeli
5/ American
6/ Alien
7/ Bosnian
8/ Turkish ect.

SU-24 is produced for 30 years and two generation of NATO pilots were trained to learn the shape of it. Now they tell us that the plane entered Turkish airspace for 17 seconds during which they have warned the Russians 10 times or 1,7 seconds each warning ...

Erdogan is a lier....

You just don't shoot down planes without establishing country of origin... Erdogan obviously ruled out that it was not American, Israeli, jordanian, saudi Arabiaian and so forth... the turks knew it was Russian, because they knew who it wasn't....

Maybe Russia will not know which plane is which also when they shoot down a flying turkey...!

Turkey must be punished either way, they financially support ISIS through oil trading and have been known to also arm ISIS and other criminal groups inside Syria...

Turkeys airspace should now be disabled for 100 miles from the border of Syria... which means Russian planes are able to use turkeys airspace within 100 miles of the syrian border for combat operations... this should give Russian pilots the space they need and turkey will have to accept....

If turkey does not like this proposal, then it may lose some territory to the Kurds, Russia can help the kurds create a small country using turkish land, therefore forcefully taking turkeys airspace...

Erdogan is scum, turkey should be expelles from NATO for helping ISIS and profiting off the terrorists... paris terrorist attacks were partly due to turkeys support for ISIS....

You can never trust turks just like albans they are born liars and jihadi backstabbers, just absolute savages. After all albans originate from mountains around black sea (most likely present day turkey). turkey & albans = isis
turkey has been violating syrias airspace on a daily basis bombing kurds and stealing oil from syria with their isis terrorist buddies. Who are they to talk about violation of sovereignty? They have been training and arming isis terrorist jihadis and sending them across border into syria since the start.

Perfect time to nuke Turkish air bases,and help Kurds to cut Turkey in half.

turkey scared/////the russkies would demolish them to dust......even america and other nato nations are pretty much turning their backs on turkey lololol your on your own.....

Now they tell us that the plane entered Turkish airspace for 17 seconds during which they have warned the Russians 10 times or 1,7 seconds each warning ...
(RK, 25 November 2015 11:34)

====================
So the warning must've been "get out 10x because that's the only thing you can say in 1.7 seconds.

He, however, added that "no one can expect Turkey to remain silent when it comes to violations of its borders."

Turkey violates Iraq's airspace with daily bombardment. Turkey violates every rule in the book, including the commission of war crimes in its fight with the PKK in both the Kurdish region and the Syrian one, where the state directly targets the civilians blockading them in their towns with no access to water and food.The so-called Western Alliance doesn't seem to worry about ISIS, their oil, their weapons and fighters casually crossing the Turkish border on a daily basis or Erdogan's security services sending thousands of migrants to EU.

Don't believe the hype folks. Rich men playing with the working class $$$$s.

We were stronger as Yugoslavia....always remember that my Southern Slavs.

However, I'm afraid Putin has painted himself into a corner since it will take a lot more than losing a few planes to remove himself from the West's $hit list. Bottom line: Russia is not and will never achieve the status of a Super Power.
(The Count of Kosova, 25 November 2015 21:01)

Do you see straight? Most of the North American news station are totally avoiding talking about the shooting down of the Russian plane, its in the back of the papers for a reason. Turkey is in the corner, certainly not Russia. Don't make me laugh about sanctions, Russia doesn't have trillions of dollars in debt to pay back or do you need a counting lesson again?

As usual, big talk from a big Zero. Russia didn't even have the guts to call back their ambassador from Turkey or expel Turkey's Ambassador to Russia. Putin is pretending to attack ISIS in order to have the West's sanctions lifted. He is desperate to return to the good graces of the West and will accept having Russia's passenger plane and two of its most advanced jets shot down, just to get Western relief. However, I'm afraid Putin has painted himself into a corner since it will take a lot more than losing a few planes to remove himself from the West's $hit list. Bottom line: Russia is not and will never achieve the status of a Super Power.
(The Count of Kosova, 25 November 2015 21:01)

Ha, ha, hah, you should take up comedy because I’ve read some silly posts but you’re now in the same class as crackpot Lenard. Next you’ll be tell everyone that Albania can defeat Russia.

C*unt of Kosova : “Russia didn't even have the guts to call back their ambassador from Turkey or expel Turkey's Ambassador to Russia. Putin is pretending to attack ISIS … and will accept having Russia's passenger plane and two of its most advanced jets shot down, just to get Western relief… Russia is not and will never achieve the status of a Super Power”


Hi Pussy ! Why are you so panic – relax we are busy for KIM. Be patient and enjoy the developments. Turkey and it idiotic president are just tools in the hand of you mutual master. So the main strike mustn’t be at the axe but at the hand that holds it. We have balls to strike the USA and we demonstrated it first in Ossetia then in Ukraine and now in Moldova and Syria. As for the ISIL they have no prospects as well as the Turkomans , An Nusra and other gangs. So neither the USA nor the US made Taliban , ISIL, Al Qaeda will be able to help you when we are back to the Pristina airport. Seek peace from Serbia or suck from Russia that is your real choice. I love you curvy !

So the warning must've been "get out 10x because that's the only thing you can say in 1.7 seconds.
(Peggy, 25 November 2015 12:46)


You are now getting your news second hand from rote who gets it from the voices in his head,
Turkey said that the Russian planes were warned 10 times BEFORE before they entered Turkish airspace, not during the 17 seconds

The Russians got what they deserve . stop being arrogant , this is not Ukraine. By the way let's see what they can do about it

Erdogan: We didn't know warplane was Russian

So there you have it. Turkey to Russia: We don't want to go to war with you if you don't, but don't provoke us again or more of your pilots will die.

Turkey showed Russia that is has claws and for all the bravado coming from the muzhik, they now know where the border stands.

Turkey has a million solders and one of the best armies in Europe, and if Russia is itching for more, Turkey can not only close the Dardanelles, but it can wipe out entirely the Russian contingent in Syria.

Anyone else want some more humble pie.

"Now they tell us ......"
(RK, 25 November 2015 11:34)


Who is "they" that tell you these things? Is it the voices in your head or the Kremlin fan-boys on twitter.
If you read the statement, Turkey said that the Russian planes were warned 10 times BEFORE before they entered Turkish airspace.

I am sure the Turks knew they were Russian planes, but in your effort to make a joke out of this, you forgot about a country called Syria, you may have heard of it? This is a country in the middle east that shares a border with Turkey. It is where the planes crashed and they own the same model of plane.
The other much less likely country is Iran.

@SJ

NATO has backed up Turkey' actions. NATO does stand shoulder to shoulder. You were the one blabbing about how Russian is calling the shots lol. Russia is not messing with Ukraine or Georgia here, this is Turkey; the one that embarrassed Russia by herself. Russians sure didn't respond with aggression. All I heard was your hero Putin blabbing about how relations will have consequences, hahaha. Turkey just out Russia in her place.

Now I hope, Russia will dare try to do something about it, we know she won't, she is a bully against smaller nations.

You are now getting your news second hand from rote who gets it from the voices in his head,
Turkey said that the Russian planes were warned 10 times BEFORE before they entered Turkish airspace, not during the 17 seconds
(Dwight, 25 November 2015 14:16)
============================
Actually some news services were saying that it was only a matter of seconds if Russians strayed into Turkish territory so it's not Rote's say so. Few seconds only and they managed to say it ten times? First they say it was five minutes and now they say they didn't know it was a Russian plane. Yep, they sound very credible to me, sarc/off.

........
Russia has put herself in a real big mess and they don't know how to get out of there. There are no good option for the russians only bad and worst. Russia's only reasonable option is to join force with the US in fighting daesh and make Assad exile to Russia. In ecxhange Russia keeps their military bases in Syria and save herself from a long work that they cannot win like the one tha they had in Afganistan decades ago.

Turkey is responsible for: the Armenian genocide, rapes and murders during their invasion of Cyprus; murders of Serbs during their occupation of the Balkans, attacks and false flags against the Kurds in Turkey, Syria and Iraq; regularly encroaching and over flying Greece by way of threat; facilitating the movement of terrorists to the Caucuses; using refugees, some from Syria, providing false passports and then moving them onto Europe by way of blackmail receiving €3bn in return thanks to Germany.

Turkey has now launched an attack on Syrian territory which is a war crime, while facilitating terrorism in Syria. Russia is the only country prepared to take on the child abusing, head hunting jihadists that are sponsored by the US and allies and Turkey has attacked it.

Backstabbing Turkey is a threat to Serbia and the rest of Europe and should find no support from any civilised person. I couldn't be more disgusted that my country, Britain, supports this terrorist state, Turkey which supports ISIS.

The Russians should bombard sights inside Turkey and use the same excuse. "We didn't know we were dropping bombs inside Turkey."

Russia has put herself in a real big mess and they don't know how to get out of there. There are no good option for the russians only bad and worst. Russia's only reasonable option is to join force with the US in fighting daesh and make Assad exile to Russia. In ecxhange Russia keeps their military bases in Syria and save herself from a long work that they cannot win like the one tha they had in Afganistan decades ago.
(From Albania, 25 November 2015 15:29)
--------------------------------------
What are you on? How does "sorry, we didn't know it was a Russian plane" translate into Russia is running scared? It sounds just the opposite to me.
Russia has ruled out retaliating militarily so I think that NATO had a few words with Turkey and told them not to provoke a war with Russia.

we didn't know the warplane was Russian...so we shot it down..Hahaha..sounds like the words of someone who is $hitting themselves

@ rote

Sometime you seems to me an ‘idiot’.
All you do is menacing with war all those who don’t support you and don’t share the same opinion like you.
You must be satisfied only with Serbs – they "suck" you well every time they need you.

Is easy to tell that Turks are the bad guys – because they shot the Russian pilots.
Ok – but Turkey is one country which share borders with Syria – and some time before some Turks died by attacks in Turko – Syrian border. So, Turkey is in high alert – especially in Turko – Syrian border.
All I wonder is: What were 2 Russian military planes searching in the Turko – Syrian border???
Turkish army is stationed in that zone. So how it works, please?
So Russians decide to operate in the “dangerous” border between Turkey and Syria and doesn't notify Turks about that?
Are there different zones in which operate Russians and NATO coalitions or they shot and blame each other?

Everyone is playing its game in Syria. Russia is backing the Assad regime and bombing the ones who are against him, being them turkmen,syrians,isil etc. Actually the russians are bombing the most the so called "moderate opposition" which have surrounded Assad controlled territory. Only after the russian civilian plane was hit the russians are throwing some bombs to isis, before they were more concentrated in bombing the others.

Now the situation in Syria will escalate even more and the russian will have to increase their efforts and presence in terms of military and finance. Which will make the situation at home more difficult. Not to mention the ukranian front that is about to be opened again.

The sunnis hate russians now more than ever and will face them in every possible front in the region and elsewhere. Given the fact that the sunnis in Syria are more than the shia, the russian effort in temrs of backing the Assad military offensive are useless and harmful in the long temr for the russians themselfs. First off, because the majority of the people in Syria hate Assad and every possible territorial gain froma Assad in the sunnis areas cannot pass without large civilian casualties and radicalizastion of its populations wich can bring them to embrace the daesh terrorists in larger numbers.

Continues....

Turkeys airspace should now be disabled for 100 miles from the border of Syria... which means Russian planes are able to use turkeys airspace within 100 miles of the syrian border for combat operations... this should give Russian pilots the space they need and turkey will have to accept....
(Nikola Novakovic, 25 November 2015 16:12)

As usual, big talk from a big Zero. Russia didn't even have the guts to call back their ambassador from Turkey or expel Turkey's Ambassador to Russia. Putin is pretending to attack ISIS in order to have the West's sanctions lifted. He is desperate to return to the good graces of the West and will accept having Russia's passenger plane and two of its most advanced jets shot down, just to get Western relief. However, I'm afraid Putin has painted himself into a corner since it will take a lot more than losing a few planes to remove himself from the West's $hit list. Bottom line: Russia is not and will never achieve the status of a Super Power.

(Guest, 25 November 2015 15:12)

In diplomacy language is everything. Words actually mean something unlike your comment here as if Turkey could take on Russia. The Kurds pissed on Ankara several times when they went into northern Iraq. They made the Turkish army look ridiculous.
On the shoulder to shoulder issue, both the White House and the Pentagon said that “this is an issue for Russia and Turkey not NATO. Does that sound like they are standing shoulder to shoulder with the Turks?
Get this through your head, you don’t shoot down a superpower’s aircraft without consequences. There is always a price to pay.
The Russians have just stationed I think its called Moskva just off the Syrian coast and this ship can shoot down anything in Turkey mate. However, I believe that there will be plenty of BBQd Turkmen very soon.

Nikola Novakovic you have erotic fantasy !

The Chief Mullah and Main Caliph Erdogan of All Known Universes will be kicked where it hurts the most. Of course no one will declare war on Ankara Pashalik. Ankara Pashalik is the bathtube of Russian lower-middle and working class because it's cheaper to go there for two-three weeks than to Crna Gora, Bulgaria, Croatia, Albania, Israel, China or even stay at home in Crimea. And the sea is nice. Mullah-Caliph Erdogan will miss the money.

The winners are on the list above. CG and Israel have no visa regime, Croatia, Albania have a reduced one and you can always negotiate with China, Greece, Malta, Cyprus, Romania, Bulgaria.

The airfare is not a question because the costs of a full charter airplane to Malta or to Baidaho are close enough. The rest is up to the governments. And that will hurt Turkey.

The worst is that the Ukrainian, British and German low-cost-tourist-horde tend to follow the same trend (or v.v.), so it is going to hurt even more.

Ultimately it is not bad. Turkey is a country which does not deserve to exist. It did not bring anything to Balkans, Ukraine and Russia just misery and endless war. I would rather spend $100 in Albania than a single Cent in Turkey.

Apropos, war. It's out of question - but there was not a single war between Turkiye and Russia what Turks could decide for them self on their own ever. For Turks, Russia was an endless string of humiliations. Bravo, Erdogan, you are a (self-hating Georgian) genius of Turkish nation.

sj : “Kurds pissed on Ankara several times when they went into northern Iraq. They made the Turkish army look ridiculous.”


I am sure Turkey will regret for the Russian plane. Yet I am not so optimistic about the developments. Because the USA who stands behind many of the players has strong motivation to untie a big war here. One of the players are the Kurds that you mention. But you should know that Kurds is a strange nation. Most likely they were formed not because of their genetic routes but as a caste of the Great Tartaria’s Horde = Mongol-Tatar. Same as the Jews (finance caste) and the Greeks (Orthodox Brahmans) ect.

Not only genetically Kurds of Iran differ but the 3 other groups of the Kurds are also different. So is their language and many scientists still doubt that those are dialects but not separate proto-Persian languages. Worse than that - Kurds are not united even inside their states. In Syria we have 3 groups that have different approaches for Erdogan, for ISIL, for Assad ect. This is why the US failed to arrange an attack at Rakka early this month.

You are now getting your news second hand from rote who gets it from the voices in his head,
Turkey said that the Russian planes were warned 10 times BEFORE before they entered Turkish airspace, not during the 17 seconds
(Dwight, 25 November 2015 14:16)
========================
Russia is now saying that they will have their bombers escorted by fighter jets so let's see how tough Turkey is. The pilot said that in no way they entered Turkish territory.
I think Turkey will have to be happy with one plane only because if they try this again the fighter jets will retailiate.

"As usual, big talk from a big Zero."
"Russia didn't even have the guts to call back"
"their ambassador from Turkey or expel Turkey's Ambassador to Russia."

No need for that. The issue can be solved much more gently and much more deadly.
Your guys are so much in "love" with Turkey and the Cypriotes, too - a Summer visa deal and reduced landing fees in Tirana or Nicosia will fix that.

"Putin is pretending to attack ISIS in order to have the West's sanctions lifted."

Not because of that and attacking ISIS is actually a fact, not pretension (anymore).

"He is desperate to return to the good graces of the West"

From what I see, it's mutual, they do not know how to dance that dance the best. For now the sanctions aren't lifted on both sides and they do not work either way. Sanctions and answering with sanctions to sanctions is quite primitive.

"and will accept having Russia's passenger plane"
The plane did belong to a Chechen-Turkish led/owned company. Make a research and scratch your head. It was not only a cruel but a very dumb act.

"two of its most advanced jets shot down"
Completely wrong. These airplanes are old horses, basically the modern versions of "Shturmovik". The word "advanced" could be applied 20 years ago. Please research.

"Bottom line: Russia is not and will never achieve the status of a Super Power."
I do not dare to predict. "Tomorrow" could surpass the wildest phantasy. Missions to Mars or Jupiter could be more important. No idea.

Backstabbing Turkey is a threat to Serbia and the rest of Europe and should find no support from any civilised person. I couldn't be more disgusted that my country, Britain, supports this terrorist state, Turkey which supports ISIS.
(Soph, 26 November 2015 11:58)
Sounds like it is time to move back home to Serbia, or do your principles not run that deep? You are talking about the Armenian genocide of a hundred years ago, Serbia's rapes, murder and tortures were from 16 years ago.

Let us take the size of the economy right out of the equation and look at real numbers, not make believe numbers pulled from a hat. The Russian and US Debt GDP per Capita 2015:

(1) Russian 17.92
(2) USA 102.98
(Jugsolavija, 26 November 2015 20:09)

Thx mate, you proved my point that you were wrong and that it is not only the size of the debt that matters, but the GDP as well, among other things :)

You have Erdo on one side and Puti, Shoygu and Gerasimov on the other. Why don't these khans just shake hand and try to do what their ancestors failed to do to Syria over 700 years ago. I bet Erdo thinks Shoygu is a race traitor, huh Leonidas.

On the other side if your income is $70,000.00 /year, your desire is a second-hand Honda for $5000 and you are mortgage-free... than you are much better off.
(Ataman, 26 November 2015 19:55)

And in your example above, the "much better off" means sleeping in your second-hand Honda at night in order to be mortgage-free!!!

Keep idiotic case studies like the above coming mate; they are entertaining :)

There is a bit more. You like it or not, but these tourists (Russian, British, German, Ukrainian) are known to drink what they want (and a lot of it!), eat what they want and sleep with whom they want and agreed upon, regardless of their gender.

That could sound maybe rotten or what-not, but these people have otherwise at least 11 month of cruel, exhausting work. They deserve to have a one month of "immoral" fun. What is "moral" and what is not was always a controversy, at least in Egypt and Turkey.

You know what... let them do what they want to their desires and personal freedom, without respect to mullahs and false teachings of false prophets who should not be respected.

What "benefits" did bring Islam to the world anyway? The 9/11?

The locals in Turkey will be happy too - they can continue to dream about jihad without that tourist disturbance.

I see a win-win, except that, inshallah, the vacation on Malta or in Israel costs somewhat more. OK, with 11 month of hard work I wish the involved tourists to save enough money for places outside of Turkey. Thailand and Goa is terrific, too.

Relax rote, life is worth living. Just because you don't like a few comments here and there it doesn't mean you should behave like a spoiled child.
Your man Putin doesn't really know how to play this one out. He asked for it and he got it. I feel sorry for the pilot who was just following orders.

Putin and Erdogan are one of the same. They're both desperately trying to convince the world they're more important than they really are.

They must suffer from the little pecker syndrome. I say put them in a cage fight and let them duke it out.

By the way, how many Serbs have volunteered to take up arms and help their brethren out?

Joni : “Sometime you seems to me an ‘idiot’. All you do is menacing with war … Is easy to tell that Turks are the bad guys – because they shot the Russian pilots… What were 2 Russian military planes searching in ...”


Seems that I am the only one here to see the difference between the current Turks and the Ottomans. I talk about Turkey and it Salafite President only. Yet the biggest problem is that we all have different interests. Shqiptars are in the US camp while Serbs are hanging around between Russia and the USA.

Russians take it very personal while Putin is also a Russian. Definitely we are not going to swallow it. I feel that Erdogan will be the first target though everybody understands that it was the USA who brought our plane down and killed our guys. They strive hard to stop the Russian-French coalition.

So three AWACS planes (a US , a Saudi and a Turkish) and Patriot’s guiding system in Injirlik base plus 4 interceptors were activated to destroy our plane. And they’ve been hunting it for 3 days. It was a special operation that the turks technically could not do alone. They say that the Russian respond won’t a prompt one but it will be devastating for Turkey.

I personally do not like the developments as they remind me of 1914 when nobody wanted to fight but the war imposed itself. Today many pro-Turkish gangs have their camps along the border so the pilots take the risks attacking them there while Turkey covers it clients.

Russia doesn't have trillions of dollars in debt to pay back or do you need a counting lesson again?
(Jugoslavija, 26 November 2015 00:33)

Yes, but the size of the US economy is 5× larger than Russia's. So, let me explain this to you in more simple terms.

I have an income of EUR 50000 per year and I have 0 debt.

My neighbor has an income of EUR 250000 per year and has EUR 1000 of debt

According to your logic of only considering the debt size, I am better off than my neighbor!!!

Now, please give us your counting lesson :)

According to your logic of only considering the debt size, I am better off than my neighbor!!!
Now, please give us your counting lesson :)
(icj1, 26 November 2015 16:07)

I can see your fake Pristina degree is really helping with your math and economics. According to your math, of course the USA would be better of with a Debt to GDP ratio of 4% (1000/250,000).

Your percentages are way off, let us take the size of the economy right out of the equation and look at real numbers, not make believe numbers pulled from a hat. The Russian and US Debt GDP per Capita 2015:

(1) Russian 17.92
(2) USA 102.98

Right now the US debt is at 18 Trillion dollars which converts to about 154,161 US dollars per citizen. If you take the law of diminishing returns, it is already reached a level where it is mathematically impossible to pay it back. I will let you work out the math, just take a simple mortgage table and plug in 18 trillion dollars and see if it's possible to pay it back taking into account average wages of US workers which is falling not rising and with the low interest rates. Consider the fact that if interest rates are to rise, US will accelerate faster into bankruptcy. http://www.forbes.com/sites#/sites/mikepatton/2015/04/24/national-debt-tops-18-trillion-guess-how-much-you-owe/

The US has reached the point of no return and will eventually will need to write off it's debt. Russia on the other hand is not even close to that situation no matter how slow GDP grows.

ICJ1,

The math is incomplete. If you have $1,000,000,00 / year, $1,000.00 debt and your desire hunts you to put your head in a financial nozzle because your dream is a $20,000,000.00 collector's car and you are up to buying it tomorrow, no matter, what - than your finances are upside-down.

On the other side if your income is $70,000.00 /year, your desire is a second-hand Honda for $5000 and you are mortgage-free... than you are much better off.

The dream of world's domination and having world's most inflated military budget (do you know, how much Pentagon is billed for that strategic toilet paper they wipe their tactical-supersonic butts every day? I recall some ridiculous numbers).

Or compare the R&D budget spent by NASA on a pen which works in the Space... versus the Russian budget for the same thing (ZERO) - because Russians just use pencil - and it works.

Or compare the R&D budget spent by NASA on a pen which works in the Space... versus the Russian budget for the same thing (ZERO) - because Russians just use pencil - and it works.
(Ataman, 26 November 2015 19:55)

I am glad somebody actually understands the concept of a simple principle and interest amortization table. The US has the luxury to continue to print money but that can only last so far. Also, look at UK dept to GDP ratio, far worse than the US.

Essentially, yes if you have to and can do that.

http://tinyurl.com/o9q4tuf

Otherwise the situation can become much worse.
Many engineers in the Valley are forced to live in shared housing to pay their mortgages.
Under such condition the $150000 / year salary is nothing, but meaningless number.

Our neighbors in Hungary and France do not have $150000 / year but they are much better off than these poor souls. In addition they buy real food, not pathetic carcinogen food-substitutes like most of America. But hey, it's business. You get ill, it's even a better business in America.

The Russians got what they deserve . stop being arrogant , this is not Ukraine. By the way let's see what they can do about it

@SJ

NATO has backed up Turkey' actions. NATO does stand shoulder to shoulder. You were the one blabbing about how Russian is calling the shots lol. Russia is not messing with Ukraine or Georgia here, this is Turkey; the one that embarrassed Russia by herself. Russians sure didn't respond with aggression. All I heard was your hero Putin blabbing about how relations will have consequences, hahaha. Turkey just out Russia in her place.

Now I hope, Russia will dare try to do something about it, we know she won't, she is a bully against smaller nations.

Everyone is playing its game in Syria. Russia is backing the Assad regime and bombing the ones who are against him, being them turkmen,syrians,isil etc. Actually the russians are bombing the most the so called "moderate opposition" which have surrounded Assad controlled territory. Only after the russian civilian plane was hit the russians are throwing some bombs to isis, before they were more concentrated in bombing the others.

Now the situation in Syria will escalate even more and the russian will have to increase their efforts and presence in terms of military and finance. Which will make the situation at home more difficult. Not to mention the ukranian front that is about to be opened again.

The sunnis hate russians now more than ever and will face them in every possible front in the region and elsewhere. Given the fact that the sunnis in Syria are more than the shia, the russian effort in temrs of backing the Assad military offensive are useless and harmful in the long temr for the russians themselfs. First off, because the majority of the people in Syria hate Assad and every possible territorial gain froma Assad in the sunnis areas cannot pass without large civilian casualties and radicalizastion of its populations wich can bring them to embrace the daesh terrorists in larger numbers.

Continues....

Erdogan: We didn't know warplane was Russian

So there you have it. Turkey to Russia: We don't want to go to war with you if you don't, but don't provoke us again or more of your pilots will die.

Turkey showed Russia that is has claws and for all the bravado coming from the muzhik, they now know where the border stands.

Turkey has a million solders and one of the best armies in Europe, and if Russia is itching for more, Turkey can not only close the Dardanelles, but it can wipe out entirely the Russian contingent in Syria.

Anyone else want some more humble pie.

Perfect time to nuke Turkish air bases,and help Kurds to cut Turkey in half.

So the warning must've been "get out 10x because that's the only thing you can say in 1.7 seconds.
(Peggy, 25 November 2015 12:46)


You are now getting your news second hand from rote who gets it from the voices in his head,
Turkey said that the Russian planes were warned 10 times BEFORE before they entered Turkish airspace, not during the 17 seconds

You have Erdo on one side and Puti, Shoygu and Gerasimov on the other. Why don't these khans just shake hand and try to do what their ancestors failed to do to Syria over 700 years ago. I bet Erdo thinks Shoygu is a race traitor, huh Leonidas.

........
Russia has put herself in a real big mess and they don't know how to get out of there. There are no good option for the russians only bad and worst. Russia's only reasonable option is to join force with the US in fighting daesh and make Assad exile to Russia. In ecxhange Russia keeps their military bases in Syria and save herself from a long work that they cannot win like the one tha they had in Afganistan decades ago.

You can never trust turks just like albans they are born liars and jihadi backstabbers, just absolute savages. After all albans originate from mountains around black sea (most likely present day turkey). turkey & albans = isis
turkey has been violating syrias airspace on a daily basis bombing kurds and stealing oil from syria with their isis terrorist buddies. Who are they to talk about violation of sovereignty? They have been training and arming isis terrorist jihadis and sending them across border into syria since the start.

I wonder what other versions did they have :

1/ Zimbabwe plane
2/ Swedish one
3/ Mongolian
4/ Israeli
5/ American
6/ Alien
7/ Bosnian
8/ Turkish ect.

SU-24 is produced for 30 years and two generation of NATO pilots were trained to learn the shape of it. Now they tell us that the plane entered Turkish airspace for 17 seconds during which they have warned the Russians 10 times or 1,7 seconds each warning ...

Some people still think we are in the 90s. Look at the world, geopolitics. What happened to Georgia when it got closer to NATO? It lost Abkhazia and South Ossetia. What happened to Ukraine as it pushed towards NATO? It lost Crimea and large parts of the East. What about Serbia? Getting closer to NATO means giving up on KiM. NATO membership these days is a liability, not an asset. Turkey as such will lose large parts to the Kurds.

Russia is fighting terrorists, the Syrian army are fighting terrorists, the Kurds are fighting terrorists while Turkey is fighting Russia, Syria and the Kurds. At the same time it is buying oil from terrorists.

Erdogan is a lier....

You just don't shoot down planes without establishing country of origin... Erdogan obviously ruled out that it was not American, Israeli, jordanian, saudi Arabiaian and so forth... the turks knew it was Russian, because they knew who it wasn't....

Maybe Russia will not know which plane is which also when they shoot down a flying turkey...!

Turkey must be punished either way, they financially support ISIS through oil trading and have been known to also arm ISIS and other criminal groups inside Syria...

Turkeys airspace should now be disabled for 100 miles from the border of Syria... which means Russian planes are able to use turkeys airspace within 100 miles of the syrian border for combat operations... this should give Russian pilots the space they need and turkey will have to accept....

If turkey does not like this proposal, then it may lose some territory to the Kurds, Russia can help the kurds create a small country using turkish land, therefore forcefully taking turkeys airspace...

Erdogan is scum, turkey should be expelles from NATO for helping ISIS and profiting off the terrorists... paris terrorist attacks were partly due to turkeys support for ISIS....

turkey scared/////the russkies would demolish them to dust......even america and other nato nations are pretty much turning their backs on turkey lololol your on your own.....

The back peddling has already started. The did not know eh? What a load of horse manure. These Turks knew exactly the situation, but thinking that NATO would stand "shoulder to shoulder" they thought they would be smart.

NATO and the US left Mustapha holding the baby.

Turkeys airspace should now be disabled for 100 miles from the border of Syria... which means Russian planes are able to use turkeys airspace within 100 miles of the syrian border for combat operations... this should give Russian pilots the space they need and turkey will have to accept....
(Nikola Novakovic, 25 November 2015 16:12)

As usual, big talk from a big Zero. Russia didn't even have the guts to call back their ambassador from Turkey or expel Turkey's Ambassador to Russia. Putin is pretending to attack ISIS in order to have the West's sanctions lifted. He is desperate to return to the good graces of the West and will accept having Russia's passenger plane and two of its most advanced jets shot down, just to get Western relief. However, I'm afraid Putin has painted himself into a corner since it will take a lot more than losing a few planes to remove himself from the West's $hit list. Bottom line: Russia is not and will never achieve the status of a Super Power.

Don't believe the hype folks. Rich men playing with the working class $$$$s.

We were stronger as Yugoslavia....always remember that my Southern Slavs.

What a bald faced lie. Like a bad gambler who who has been caught with extra cards in his pack, there's always a reasonable explanation.

Just keep digging Erdogan. The only way is down.

The Russians should bombard sights inside Turkey and use the same excuse. "We didn't know we were dropping bombs inside Turkey."

C*unt of Kosova : “Russia didn't even have the guts to call back their ambassador from Turkey or expel Turkey's Ambassador to Russia. Putin is pretending to attack ISIS … and will accept having Russia's passenger plane and two of its most advanced jets shot down, just to get Western relief… Russia is not and will never achieve the status of a Super Power”


Hi Pussy ! Why are you so panic – relax we are busy for KIM. Be patient and enjoy the developments. Turkey and it idiotic president are just tools in the hand of you mutual master. So the main strike mustn’t be at the axe but at the hand that holds it. We have balls to strike the USA and we demonstrated it first in Ossetia then in Ukraine and now in Moldova and Syria. As for the ISIL they have no prospects as well as the Turkomans , An Nusra and other gangs. So neither the USA nor the US made Taliban , ISIL, Al Qaeda will be able to help you when we are back to the Pristina airport. Seek peace from Serbia or suck from Russia that is your real choice. I love you curvy !

"Now they tell us ......"
(RK, 25 November 2015 11:34)


Who is "they" that tell you these things? Is it the voices in your head or the Kremlin fan-boys on twitter.
If you read the statement, Turkey said that the Russian planes were warned 10 times BEFORE before they entered Turkish airspace.

I am sure the Turks knew they were Russian planes, but in your effort to make a joke out of this, you forgot about a country called Syria, you may have heard of it? This is a country in the middle east that shares a border with Turkey. It is where the planes crashed and they own the same model of plane.
The other much less likely country is Iran.

Now they tell us that the plane entered Turkish airspace for 17 seconds during which they have warned the Russians 10 times or 1,7 seconds each warning ...
(RK, 25 November 2015 11:34)

====================
So the warning must've been "get out 10x because that's the only thing you can say in 1.7 seconds.

He, however, added that "no one can expect Turkey to remain silent when it comes to violations of its borders."

Turkey violates Iraq's airspace with daily bombardment. Turkey violates every rule in the book, including the commission of war crimes in its fight with the PKK in both the Kurdish region and the Syrian one, where the state directly targets the civilians blockading them in their towns with no access to water and food.The so-called Western Alliance doesn't seem to worry about ISIS, their oil, their weapons and fighters casually crossing the Turkish border on a daily basis or Erdogan's security services sending thousands of migrants to EU.

(Guest, 25 November 2015 15:12)

In diplomacy language is everything. Words actually mean something unlike your comment here as if Turkey could take on Russia. The Kurds pissed on Ankara several times when they went into northern Iraq. They made the Turkish army look ridiculous.
On the shoulder to shoulder issue, both the White House and the Pentagon said that “this is an issue for Russia and Turkey not NATO. Does that sound like they are standing shoulder to shoulder with the Turks?
Get this through your head, you don’t shoot down a superpower’s aircraft without consequences. There is always a price to pay.
The Russians have just stationed I think its called Moskva just off the Syrian coast and this ship can shoot down anything in Turkey mate. However, I believe that there will be plenty of BBQd Turkmen very soon.

Russia has put herself in a real big mess and they don't know how to get out of there. There are no good option for the russians only bad and worst. Russia's only reasonable option is to join force with the US in fighting daesh and make Assad exile to Russia. In ecxhange Russia keeps their military bases in Syria and save herself from a long work that they cannot win like the one tha they had in Afganistan decades ago.
(From Albania, 25 November 2015 15:29)
--------------------------------------
What are you on? How does "sorry, we didn't know it was a Russian plane" translate into Russia is running scared? It sounds just the opposite to me.
Russia has ruled out retaliating militarily so I think that NATO had a few words with Turkey and told them not to provoke a war with Russia.

You are now getting your news second hand from rote who gets it from the voices in his head,
Turkey said that the Russian planes were warned 10 times BEFORE before they entered Turkish airspace, not during the 17 seconds
(Dwight, 25 November 2015 14:16)
============================
Actually some news services were saying that it was only a matter of seconds if Russians strayed into Turkish territory so it's not Rote's say so. Few seconds only and they managed to say it ten times? First they say it was five minutes and now they say they didn't know it was a Russian plane. Yep, they sound very credible to me, sarc/off.

sj : “Kurds pissed on Ankara several times when they went into northern Iraq. They made the Turkish army look ridiculous.”


I am sure Turkey will regret for the Russian plane. Yet I am not so optimistic about the developments. Because the USA who stands behind many of the players has strong motivation to untie a big war here. One of the players are the Kurds that you mention. But you should know that Kurds is a strange nation. Most likely they were formed not because of their genetic routes but as a caste of the Great Tartaria’s Horde = Mongol-Tatar. Same as the Jews (finance caste) and the Greeks (Orthodox Brahmans) ect.

Not only genetically Kurds of Iran differ but the 3 other groups of the Kurds are also different. So is their language and many scientists still doubt that those are dialects but not separate proto-Persian languages. Worse than that - Kurds are not united even inside their states. In Syria we have 3 groups that have different approaches for Erdogan, for ISIL, for Assad ect. This is why the US failed to arrange an attack at Rakka early this month.

@ rote

Sometime you seems to me an ‘idiot’.
All you do is menacing with war all those who don’t support you and don’t share the same opinion like you.
You must be satisfied only with Serbs – they "suck" you well every time they need you.

Is easy to tell that Turks are the bad guys – because they shot the Russian pilots.
Ok – but Turkey is one country which share borders with Syria – and some time before some Turks died by attacks in Turko – Syrian border. So, Turkey is in high alert – especially in Turko – Syrian border.
All I wonder is: What were 2 Russian military planes searching in the Turko – Syrian border???
Turkish army is stationed in that zone. So how it works, please?
So Russians decide to operate in the “dangerous” border between Turkey and Syria and doesn't notify Turks about that?
Are there different zones in which operate Russians and NATO coalitions or they shot and blame each other?

Or compare the R&D budget spent by NASA on a pen which works in the Space... versus the Russian budget for the same thing (ZERO) - because Russians just use pencil - and it works.
(Ataman, 26 November 2015 19:55)

I am glad somebody actually understands the concept of a simple principle and interest amortization table. The US has the luxury to continue to print money but that can only last so far. Also, look at UK dept to GDP ratio, far worse than the US.

Nikola Novakovic you have erotic fantasy !

As usual, big talk from a big Zero. Russia didn't even have the guts to call back their ambassador from Turkey or expel Turkey's Ambassador to Russia. Putin is pretending to attack ISIS in order to have the West's sanctions lifted. He is desperate to return to the good graces of the West and will accept having Russia's passenger plane and two of its most advanced jets shot down, just to get Western relief. However, I'm afraid Putin has painted himself into a corner since it will take a lot more than losing a few planes to remove himself from the West's $hit list. Bottom line: Russia is not and will never achieve the status of a Super Power.
(The Count of Kosova, 25 November 2015 21:01)

Ha, ha, hah, you should take up comedy because I’ve read some silly posts but you’re now in the same class as crackpot Lenard. Next you’ll be tell everyone that Albania can defeat Russia.

However, I'm afraid Putin has painted himself into a corner since it will take a lot more than losing a few planes to remove himself from the West's $hit list. Bottom line: Russia is not and will never achieve the status of a Super Power.
(The Count of Kosova, 25 November 2015 21:01)

Do you see straight? Most of the North American news station are totally avoiding talking about the shooting down of the Russian plane, its in the back of the papers for a reason. Turkey is in the corner, certainly not Russia. Don't make me laugh about sanctions, Russia doesn't have trillions of dollars in debt to pay back or do you need a counting lesson again?

Relax rote, life is worth living. Just because you don't like a few comments here and there it doesn't mean you should behave like a spoiled child.
Your man Putin doesn't really know how to play this one out. He asked for it and he got it. I feel sorry for the pilot who was just following orders.

Putin and Erdogan are one of the same. They're both desperately trying to convince the world they're more important than they really are.

They must suffer from the little pecker syndrome. I say put them in a cage fight and let them duke it out.

By the way, how many Serbs have volunteered to take up arms and help their brethren out?

Backstabbing Turkey is a threat to Serbia and the rest of Europe and should find no support from any civilised person. I couldn't be more disgusted that my country, Britain, supports this terrorist state, Turkey which supports ISIS.
(Soph, 26 November 2015 11:58)
Sounds like it is time to move back home to Serbia, or do your principles not run that deep? You are talking about the Armenian genocide of a hundred years ago, Serbia's rapes, murder and tortures were from 16 years ago.

Joni : “Sometime you seems to me an ‘idiot’. All you do is menacing with war … Is easy to tell that Turks are the bad guys – because they shot the Russian pilots… What were 2 Russian military planes searching in ...”


Seems that I am the only one here to see the difference between the current Turks and the Ottomans. I talk about Turkey and it Salafite President only. Yet the biggest problem is that we all have different interests. Shqiptars are in the US camp while Serbs are hanging around between Russia and the USA.

Russians take it very personal while Putin is also a Russian. Definitely we are not going to swallow it. I feel that Erdogan will be the first target though everybody understands that it was the USA who brought our plane down and killed our guys. They strive hard to stop the Russian-French coalition.

So three AWACS planes (a US , a Saudi and a Turkish) and Patriot’s guiding system in Injirlik base plus 4 interceptors were activated to destroy our plane. And they’ve been hunting it for 3 days. It was a special operation that the turks technically could not do alone. They say that the Russian respond won’t a prompt one but it will be devastating for Turkey.

I personally do not like the developments as they remind me of 1914 when nobody wanted to fight but the war imposed itself. Today many pro-Turkish gangs have their camps along the border so the pilots take the risks attacking them there while Turkey covers it clients.

According to your logic of only considering the debt size, I am better off than my neighbor!!!
Now, please give us your counting lesson :)
(icj1, 26 November 2015 16:07)

I can see your fake Pristina degree is really helping with your math and economics. According to your math, of course the USA would be better of with a Debt to GDP ratio of 4% (1000/250,000).

Your percentages are way off, let us take the size of the economy right out of the equation and look at real numbers, not make believe numbers pulled from a hat. The Russian and US Debt GDP per Capita 2015:

(1) Russian 17.92
(2) USA 102.98

Right now the US debt is at 18 Trillion dollars which converts to about 154,161 US dollars per citizen. If you take the law of diminishing returns, it is already reached a level where it is mathematically impossible to pay it back. I will let you work out the math, just take a simple mortgage table and plug in 18 trillion dollars and see if it's possible to pay it back taking into account average wages of US workers which is falling not rising and with the low interest rates. Consider the fact that if interest rates are to rise, US will accelerate faster into bankruptcy. http://www.forbes.com/sites#/sites/mikepatton/2015/04/24/national-debt-tops-18-trillion-guess-how-much-you-owe/

The US has reached the point of no return and will eventually will need to write off it's debt. Russia on the other hand is not even close to that situation no matter how slow GDP grows.

Turkey is responsible for: the Armenian genocide, rapes and murders during their invasion of Cyprus; murders of Serbs during their occupation of the Balkans, attacks and false flags against the Kurds in Turkey, Syria and Iraq; regularly encroaching and over flying Greece by way of threat; facilitating the movement of terrorists to the Caucuses; using refugees, some from Syria, providing false passports and then moving them onto Europe by way of blackmail receiving €3bn in return thanks to Germany.

Turkey has now launched an attack on Syrian territory which is a war crime, while facilitating terrorism in Syria. Russia is the only country prepared to take on the child abusing, head hunting jihadists that are sponsored by the US and allies and Turkey has attacked it.

Backstabbing Turkey is a threat to Serbia and the rest of Europe and should find no support from any civilised person. I couldn't be more disgusted that my country, Britain, supports this terrorist state, Turkey which supports ISIS.

Russia doesn't have trillions of dollars in debt to pay back or do you need a counting lesson again?
(Jugoslavija, 26 November 2015 00:33)

Yes, but the size of the US economy is 5× larger than Russia's. So, let me explain this to you in more simple terms.

I have an income of EUR 50000 per year and I have 0 debt.

My neighbor has an income of EUR 250000 per year and has EUR 1000 of debt

According to your logic of only considering the debt size, I am better off than my neighbor!!!

Now, please give us your counting lesson :)

The Chief Mullah and Main Caliph Erdogan of All Known Universes will be kicked where it hurts the most. Of course no one will declare war on Ankara Pashalik. Ankara Pashalik is the bathtube of Russian lower-middle and working class because it's cheaper to go there for two-three weeks than to Crna Gora, Bulgaria, Croatia, Albania, Israel, China or even stay at home in Crimea. And the sea is nice. Mullah-Caliph Erdogan will miss the money.

The winners are on the list above. CG and Israel have no visa regime, Croatia, Albania have a reduced one and you can always negotiate with China, Greece, Malta, Cyprus, Romania, Bulgaria.

The airfare is not a question because the costs of a full charter airplane to Malta or to Baidaho are close enough. The rest is up to the governments. And that will hurt Turkey.

The worst is that the Ukrainian, British and German low-cost-tourist-horde tend to follow the same trend (or v.v.), so it is going to hurt even more.

Ultimately it is not bad. Turkey is a country which does not deserve to exist. It did not bring anything to Balkans, Ukraine and Russia just misery and endless war. I would rather spend $100 in Albania than a single Cent in Turkey.

Apropos, war. It's out of question - but there was not a single war between Turkiye and Russia what Turks could decide for them self on their own ever. For Turks, Russia was an endless string of humiliations. Bravo, Erdogan, you are a (self-hating Georgian) genius of Turkish nation.

we didn't know the warplane was Russian...so we shot it down..Hahaha..sounds like the words of someone who is $hitting themselves

"As usual, big talk from a big Zero."
"Russia didn't even have the guts to call back"
"their ambassador from Turkey or expel Turkey's Ambassador to Russia."

No need for that. The issue can be solved much more gently and much more deadly.
Your guys are so much in "love" with Turkey and the Cypriotes, too - a Summer visa deal and reduced landing fees in Tirana or Nicosia will fix that.

"Putin is pretending to attack ISIS in order to have the West's sanctions lifted."

Not because of that and attacking ISIS is actually a fact, not pretension (anymore).

"He is desperate to return to the good graces of the West"

From what I see, it's mutual, they do not know how to dance that dance the best. For now the sanctions aren't lifted on both sides and they do not work either way. Sanctions and answering with sanctions to sanctions is quite primitive.

"and will accept having Russia's passenger plane"
The plane did belong to a Chechen-Turkish led/owned company. Make a research and scratch your head. It was not only a cruel but a very dumb act.

"two of its most advanced jets shot down"
Completely wrong. These airplanes are old horses, basically the modern versions of "Shturmovik". The word "advanced" could be applied 20 years ago. Please research.

"Bottom line: Russia is not and will never achieve the status of a Super Power."
I do not dare to predict. "Tomorrow" could surpass the wildest phantasy. Missions to Mars or Jupiter could be more important. No idea.

You are now getting your news second hand from rote who gets it from the voices in his head,
Turkey said that the Russian planes were warned 10 times BEFORE before they entered Turkish airspace, not during the 17 seconds
(Dwight, 25 November 2015 14:16)
========================
Russia is now saying that they will have their bombers escorted by fighter jets so let's see how tough Turkey is. The pilot said that in no way they entered Turkish territory.
I think Turkey will have to be happy with one plane only because if they try this again the fighter jets will retailiate.

There is a bit more. You like it or not, but these tourists (Russian, British, German, Ukrainian) are known to drink what they want (and a lot of it!), eat what they want and sleep with whom they want and agreed upon, regardless of their gender.

That could sound maybe rotten or what-not, but these people have otherwise at least 11 month of cruel, exhausting work. They deserve to have a one month of "immoral" fun. What is "moral" and what is not was always a controversy, at least in Egypt and Turkey.

You know what... let them do what they want to their desires and personal freedom, without respect to mullahs and false teachings of false prophets who should not be respected.

What "benefits" did bring Islam to the world anyway? The 9/11?

The locals in Turkey will be happy too - they can continue to dream about jihad without that tourist disturbance.

I see a win-win, except that, inshallah, the vacation on Malta or in Israel costs somewhat more. OK, with 11 month of hard work I wish the involved tourists to save enough money for places outside of Turkey. Thailand and Goa is terrific, too.

ICJ1,

The math is incomplete. If you have $1,000,000,00 / year, $1,000.00 debt and your desire hunts you to put your head in a financial nozzle because your dream is a $20,000,000.00 collector's car and you are up to buying it tomorrow, no matter, what - than your finances are upside-down.

On the other side if your income is $70,000.00 /year, your desire is a second-hand Honda for $5000 and you are mortgage-free... than you are much better off.

The dream of world's domination and having world's most inflated military budget (do you know, how much Pentagon is billed for that strategic toilet paper they wipe their tactical-supersonic butts every day? I recall some ridiculous numbers).

Or compare the R&D budget spent by NASA on a pen which works in the Space... versus the Russian budget for the same thing (ZERO) - because Russians just use pencil - and it works.

Essentially, yes if you have to and can do that.

http://tinyurl.com/o9q4tuf

Otherwise the situation can become much worse.
Many engineers in the Valley are forced to live in shared housing to pay their mortgages.
Under such condition the $150000 / year salary is nothing, but meaningless number.

Our neighbors in Hungary and France do not have $150000 / year but they are much better off than these poor souls. In addition they buy real food, not pathetic carcinogen food-substitutes like most of America. But hey, it's business. You get ill, it's even a better business in America.

Let us take the size of the economy right out of the equation and look at real numbers, not make believe numbers pulled from a hat. The Russian and US Debt GDP per Capita 2015:

(1) Russian 17.92
(2) USA 102.98
(Jugsolavija, 26 November 2015 20:09)

Thx mate, you proved my point that you were wrong and that it is not only the size of the debt that matters, but the GDP as well, among other things :)

On the other side if your income is $70,000.00 /year, your desire is a second-hand Honda for $5000 and you are mortgage-free... than you are much better off.
(Ataman, 26 November 2015 19:55)

And in your example above, the "much better off" means sleeping in your second-hand Honda at night in order to be mortgage-free!!!

Keep idiotic case studies like the above coming mate; they are entertaining :)