By the end of this week, President Nikolic and Prime Minister Vucic will start official consultations about "the final solution for the status of Kosovo."
Mirel from Albania, many thanks for your comment to my comment! So the Serbian population is shrinking by 50 thousand every year and that means that we Serbians are headed towards extinction and when we are all gone the Albanians who are having large population explosion from higher birth rates and other Islamic immigrants moving in from all parts of Islam can just move right in and take the rest of Serbia? Again many thanks to you Mirel because you are honest and come up to the point so that every body can understand the situation here before us all.
(Watcher, 8 January 2015 16:26)
I would have agreed with your proposal 10 years ago but like the saying goes too much water has flowed under the bridge. I believe the international community would have supported a similar plan in the beginning with strong assurances that it could never be revoked. Unfortunately the people at the table could not see a compromised future. Serbs wanted to keep the Albanians as a subclass without equal rights and Albanians wanted total separation.
But in 2015 with Kosovo already recognized by more than half the countries in the world and gaining more memberships in international organizations. The only thing really missing is UN membership, and under your plan Kosovo would never have a UN seat so what is the incentive to give up what they have.
As far as what is given to the Serbs it is the connection with the Serb communities and protection of their rights, with full international support.
Do I think that any solution found will quiet the extremists on both sides of the field, no but they really are in the minority.
Serbia has gotten an accelerated start to the EU for its compromises at the table. Do you think that without them agreeing to come to the table they would have had the visa liberalization or Stabilization Agreement?
Kosovo has to attend to continue receive western support, without which they would collapse, economically and politically.
Demi your Freudian slip gave it all away. The "fear" solution Iis basically what it is to the Kosovo Serbs as it is they and the other minority groups that have been hounded out of their ancestral homes and those few that remain are in UN guarded ghettos. Doesn't sound much like fairness to me and it certainly isn' freedom.
(Polygraph, 9 January 2015 04:46)
I misspelled that word. I meant fair ofcourse.
As for serbs living in UN ghettos? Did you come up with that yours self without facts?
Serb in Kosova live in their own ruled municipalities. They participate in both local and national election in Kosova. They are also part of the Goverment of Kosova. Above that they have their own police.
Maybee everything thing is not perfect yet. There as still tensions between Albanians and Serbs. But it is much better and it will be even better in the future. Kosova goverment will make sure of that.
The time where you can throw the blaim on serbs living in ghettos is over.
@ Demi
Valid questions! Thanks for your feedback.
However,I could say the same thing.."why should YOU have the land in Kosovo?
@Watcher--Your whole premise is wrong. The land is not yours, nor mine, nor Vucic's or Nilolic's. None of those people live in Kosova. The land is property of the people who live in Kosova (Albanians and Serbs). Its that simple. Now, that we got that out of the way we go to the next point. The social contract which makes a country is broken. Therefore Serbia as a country does not exist in Kosova (take out a few villages and N. Nitro).So there's no social contract, hence no country and no land. Meaning Serbia is a foreign entity, like Louxenburg is a foreign entity, aside from N.Nitro and a few villages. Those are the only things were a compromise can be reached. This isn't possible because in order to ask for Kosova to be split, Serbia has to say out loud what it says whispering, meaning Serbia is a foreign entity in Kosova, aside from N. Nitro and a few villages, therefore Serbia cannot rule them.You are also wrong about fighting for N.Mitro. The ones that fight hardest to keep it in Kosova reside in Belgrade. To have reached a compromise Serbia first had to realize that Albanian dominated areas are an independent country. The rest is open for debate. Anything else is a non-starter because it boils down to Serbia having sovereignty over Albanians. Its simple, in Kosova only Albanians are sovereign to Albanians. That's were all starts and ends.
Demi your Freudian slip gave it all away. The "fear" solution Iis basically what it is to the Kosovo Serbs as it is they and the other minority groups that have been hounded out of their ancestral homes and those few that remain are in UN guarded ghettos. Doesn't sound much like fairness to me and it certainly isn' freedom.
I understand your logic. All that you wrote have been negotiated between Kosova and Serbia since The end of the war 15 years ago. Unfortunately we coulden't come to an common solution and Kosova coulden't stay in an limbo forever. Serbia offered autonomy (wich Kosova once had) and Kosova wanted full independece (with national flag and everything). The final solution came as Kosova gave the minority serbs equal rights in exchange for independece from Serbia. Independence to make an safe house for the majority population in Kosova.
As for the land. Both can claim it since both Albanians and Serbs have lived here for centurys. Now both have it. Kosova-Albanians and Kosova-Serbs. Serbia has its own land and the land in Kosova belongs to the people of Kosova both Albanians and Serbs.
Watcher, sorry but that is a confusing way to put it. What does "deed to the land" mean? Is it ownership proof? If it is ownership proof, what does it entail? If as you say, you agree that Kosovo can have everything (including UN membership, army, taxes, independent laws, foreign policy, embassy in Belgrade and viceversa, Serbia has an embassy in Pristina, etc etc) wouldn't the "deed to the land" be just a meaningless thing? Imagine Turkey having the "deed to the land" for Serbia these days, because Serbia was once in the Ottoman Empire? Why would you want a meaningless peace of paper?
...All Serbian children male and female should as soon as they begin to walk learn self defense martial arts and as soon as they are about 10 years old to learn and become expert marksmen with firearms. Every Serbian must be confident and strong to preserve our sacred and honorable race. Our Serbian heritage God and Country! God Bless my Serbian Brothers and Sisters with UNITY, Bratska Sloga Bice Poraz Vragu!
(Dragoljub Djurkovic, 8 January 2015 19:43)....
What are you smoking?
Secondly, I think is better to advise Serbian people to have more kids, than to start learning marital arts etc.
Every year Serbian population shrinks by 50 thousand and will continue to shrink with higher numbers.
So no matter how good you will be in martial arts you are not going to rule the region.
@ Demi
Valid questions! Thanks for your feedback.
However,I could say the same thing.."why should YOU have the land in Kosovo?" You could say "because we have it"...I could say " but it was ours before your stronger & bigger friends took it from us and gave it to you". You will say, "but you abused , killed and drove us out, you don't deserve the land", I could say" your resistence fighters were ambushing & killing policeman belgrade sent to protect surrounding villagers from your resistence fighters", You could say" but Belgrade was denying Albanians our rights and abusing us first", I could say....WHERE DOES THIS END? STOP looking back, sit down and come up with an agreement that remotely satifies BOTH side so my & your kids can eat, drink, play sports TOGETHER!!!
Albanians in Kosovo are fighting not to have Northern Kosovo amputated just as hard as Serbia is fighting not to have Kosovo amputated! Where does all this stop?
That is what we offered Serbia. To take care of their people in Kosova in the best way. Serbs in Kosova has more rights than any minority in Europe. Why would an piece of land satisfy Serbia? In what way ?
(Demi, 8 January 2015 17:11)
Another lie, they dont have the rights to go to school without getting stoned, they dont have the rights to go to churches and monesterys without getting attacked. They dont have the rights not get their graveyards, churches and monesterys vandalized and burned. You albanians had the right to education in your own language, tv and newspapers in your own language within Serbia. Serbs have none of these rights. Serbs have every right to Kosovo since it is ancient serbian territory and never has been albanian.
Serbian people living safely in other countries? No matter what country in the world we inhabit we are still defined by the blood that flows through our hearts. No matter where I live or pass in this world the blood inside my heart is Serbian. Every Serbian who is alive today any where in the world is a decendant of Serbia and all of it's history good or bad. One problem that Serbian people have is that they some times don't trust each other, even brothers of one mother. It does not matter what part of Serbia or our former Jugoslavia or even any other place in the world we happen to live in, our blood is Serbian. So both my parents suffered severly by the hands of Hitler and Croation Ustase in WW2 and ended up living and dying not in their beloved home land Jugoslavia. Yes we Serbian children love our true home land as much as our beloved brothers and sisters living there. As far as safely living in other nations, well I can tell you there is no safety any where in the world. We Eastern Orthodox Slavic people need to be prepared to defend our lives at any given moment. All Serbian children male and female should as soon as they begin to walk learn self defense martial arts and as soon as they are about 10 years old to learn and become expert marksmen with firearms. Every Serbian must be confident and strong to preserve our sacred and honorable race. Our Serbian heritage God and Country! God Bless my Serbian Brothers and Sisters with UNITY, Bratska Sloga Bice Poraz Vragu!
What I don't understand is the mentality of deception.
What you say could very well happen and probably will...my question is WHY would you want it like that. Wouldn't you want to have a "country" based on a solid foundation that will survive all future questions, trials & tribulations? What good does it do for you to "trick" or "force" Serbia to recognize you? And I'm saying that it could very well happen...some Serb politician will be "bought" or "threatened" and bang...theres you're recognition. Is that how you want the history of your country to be documented? "We tricked them" or "our friends were bigger & stronger" is not the way to a safe & secure future... I have always said, the Albanian & Serbian common folk pay a heavy price for ultra nationalists from BOTH side actions. BOTH sides did much wrong, but also BOTH side good things! Tit for Tat is NOT the answer!Serbian blood is not more precious tha Albanian and vice-versa...I've said it before and I say it again...Serbian & Albanian Represenatives need to sit down ALONE , without outside interference, and hammer out an agreement that will survive all questions & problems in the future!!If not now, WHEN? If not us, WHO?
Albanians have offered more than needed to an 5% minority (serbs). Neutral flag and anthem of the country not to provoke them. Right to use their own language. Wide rights and self-determination. The serbs take part in every goverment etc etc.
That is what we offered Serbia. To take care of their people in Kosova in the best way. Serbs in Kosova has more rights than any minority in Europe. Why would an piece of land satisfy Serbia? In what way ?
Thank you for the response. A VERY good question and I appreciate that!
You are right...there is nothing Serbia can offer the Albanians right now to temper their taste for independence. That's why UDI was not right timing or proceedure. I'm not saying that as a Serbian trying to stick it to a Albanian, absolutley not! I would say it even if things were turned around. The clear cut answer, at least to me, is that Albanians have and run their OWN business, having absolutley NOTHING to do with Serbia. No taxes to Serbia, their own police, schools, laws, language, economy, you name it with full internationally accepted rights for ALL minorities, just like in any country....except the deed to the land. WHY? Because the Albanians ALREADY have everything, what are they offering Serbia in negotiatians? That means BOTH have to give something, otherwise why are they at the table? Are the Albanians just sitting at the table there waiting for the Serbians to say "ok, we give up". My whole point is "lets make a deal NOW so our children don't have a reason to fight LATER...I don't put my hope in Res 1244 or KFOR or NATO...those are things that are here NOW, that could change overnight...I think you would agree on that. Thanks!Please reply with your thoughts...I like our dialoge.
Nikolic's statements have nothing to do with reality on the ground and he knows it. The main reason he's out campaigning on the Kosovo issue is to hide his shortcomings as president of Serbia (declining economy, rule of law, etc).
In a weeks time Serb dignitaries will meet with a representatives of a country which doesn't recognize Kosovo. The following day Serb media will broad cast the 'news'. Fast forward a couple of weeks and serb officials will proclaim that they will never recognize Kosovo. Fast forward some more and they will claim that they have to recognize Kosovo in order to get into EU.
Rinse and repeat.
If you fail to see this then you must be Ari Gold.
(a New day, 8 January 2015 10:34)
Well, Kosovo is never going to be part of EU on its own. Too many too important countries will never change their opinions. Chances for unification with Albania aren't that great either; even US won't allow it to. So basically, the EU-path is either with Serbia or independent, the latter only in a form that Serbia (and 5 EU members) recognizes. So I wouldn't say Serbia has nothing to offer, be it together towards EU or some deal that includes Serbian interests in Kosovo in exchange for a recognition. The current semi-independent status is, economically spoken, leading nowhere, just look at the unemployment rates. No-one is going to invest in a place with an uncertain status. I wonder however about what Serbia comes up with in order to convince/seduce the Kosovo-Albanians. It should be something damn-good...
....So I wouldn't say Serbia has nothing to offer, be it together towards EU or some deal that includes Serbian interests in Kosovo in exchange for a recognition. ...I wonder however about what Serbia comes up with in order to convince/seduce the Kosovo-Albanians. It should be something damn-good...
(JS, 8 January 2015 15:08)
The right solution is the formation of Serb Association in Kosovo(which will represent Serbian interests in Kosovo) and Serbia to recognize Kosovo and move on.
The other solution is exchange territories i.e Zubin-Potok with Preshevo and Serbia will formally recognize Kosovo.
Unfortunately Serbia doesn't agree with any of those sane solutions,instead offers... South Tyrol model???!!!
K-Alb have already 108 diplomatic recognition and are being supported by the West and all G7 countries. More countries will recognize Kosovo, while none of them has change their mind. Only 20 countries and Russia are firmly on Serbian side...
Also Serbia can not be part of EU with Kosovo inside of her border and this is a fact.
So the Serbian solution is... South Tyrol? C'mon man!
I don't know what kind of medication is Nikolic but surely he should change his doctor.
(Watcher, 7 January 2015 22:11
There has already been war and bloodshed over Kosovo. But there will not be again for several reasons. Res 1244 is probably going to be in effect for quite sometime, and in it Kfor(NATO) is mandated to keep the peace. Serbia is not foolish enough to take on NATO, it would also pretty much end Serbia's goal of anything to do with the EU. The mood is not there for the Serbian people (as a whole, sure some would love a war especially those living safely in other countries). The only military assistance Serbia could get is from Russia and that is extremely doubtful.
Now as you have touted your more than autonomy less than independence campaign, answer one question. In order to bring the Albanian led govt of Kosovo back to a negotiating table with Serbia, what could Serbia offer that they do not already possess? What would be the incentive for the people of Kosovo to become a part of Serbia again.
This is a serious question and I am interested to see if you can come up with a serious answer.
You also have to remember that should Serbia want to enter the EU with Kosovo as a part, the process would have to begin from the beginning as none of the negotiation process to date has included Kosovo. So you are looking at least 5 years to redo all the laws of Serbia to give necessary guarantees to Kosovo citizens once an agreement was reached before the process of EU admission could begin anew. I can think of nothing Serbia could offer.
Watcher this is not a soccer game, where all the children win trophies no matter if they win the game or not. This is about denying a genocidal scizofrenic country the opportunity to ever rule the lives of those it maimed a persecuted. This is the compromise. No matter how you dress it up this is what it boils down to. A country is a social contract. Serbia broke that country unilaterally when it decided to burn our houses and kill our children. Whether you feel you want a trophy or not is of no importance. The social contract is no longer there, the country no longer exists.
Serbian Lands Flying in the Clouds! Does any Serbian in the world think that Kosovo is the only Serbian territory at stake here? What will be the next Serbian territoy that will be demanded by our evil enemies? If a evil violent thug with a gun and knief in the street beats you up and takes all your hard earned money do you think that same evil thug will bow before you the next time he sees you or will he again beat you up and take your money? I see the USA, England and Germany is learning sadistic torture methods from their Islam buddies, does Serbia have to go down on it's knees and give the final death speech and condem itself before the head is chooped off? What happened in 1999 with the degenerate Clinton and Blair under the direction and orders of Germany most likely would be impossible today. Now just a short time period later we are in a new era, the world is getting a good taste of Islam. Now Russia, Chine and India are the leading military power in the world. There is no need for Serbia to be humiliated and tortured any more, enough is enough. Our Serbian lands sacred and beloved, paid for over and over with the blood of our fathers. Our fathers who are in Heaven with our Lord Crucified and Holy look down upon us with tears today. What will we tell our children and their children and so on, Serbia our sacred nation? Serbia and Russia United, who in the world would dare steal any territory away from Russia? Bratska Sloga Zlatan Plod, Nova Doba Novu Srecu Boze Daj!
Kosovo is not South Tyrol. Serb North Kosovo is South Tyrol. Serbia will probably announce its removing Kosovo from its constitution which is in line with its policies of having an ambassador dejan pavicevic to Kosovo. Customs agents and border guards on serbias international border with Kosovo. Kosovo Serbs in big numbers voted on republic of Kosovo central election Comission ballots. What will be the autonomy of Serbs within Serbia recognized independent Kosovo? Lots of Serbs in Kosovo still believe they live in Serbia with no encouragement from Serbia. Serbia went out of its way to have ballots of Serbian citizens in Kosovo who voted in the Serbian elections have their ballots counted outside Kosovo so no Serb can believe voting in Kosovo in a Serbian election means Kosovo is a part of Serbia anymore.
Where is the harmony they speak of and the fact they are on the same page? Nikolic says he will have a solution to Kosovo very soon, Vucic says it is not the time. Who will win the struggle. It will soon come down to who will be the true leader of Serbia. Nikolic is a loose cannon and may be well liked in Serbia for his rhetoric but not very respected outside. Vucic is respected outside of Serbia and realizes that to not isolate itself totally Serbia cannot come out with an actual plan on Kosovo being a part of Serbia.
It is one thing right now for the govt to say they will never recognize the UDI of Kosovo, which leaves the room in peoples mind that they will probably at some point do a pseudo joint agreement. But to come out with a state plan that Serbia will institute policies for the reincorporation of Kosovo under Serbian control will just delay EU talks years or decades or forever.
Notice while most of the international community, that matters, says they do not expect Serbia to RECOGNIZE Kosovo, none of them are saying they think it is acceptable for Serbia to continue to claim Kosovo as theirs.
As a American president once said " always better to jaw-jaw that to war-war"...I FULLY agree.
It would NOT be fair to settle Kosovo with one side completeley unhappy and the other side feeling they got everything. Actually it might be fair to me & you, but definantley not to the future generations who will be getting hurt, maimed and even killed because their forefathers could not come up with a compromise that BOTH can live with and put up with.
If you are a father ( I have 5 little kids), you would understand about compromising. Again, I'm not dissing the Albanians nor Serbians about what they feel is right, just looking at the overall picture to avoid future bloodshed...
Dream on....it's ridiculous the amount of time and resources Serbian politicians spent on Kosovo on a daily basis. When the focus should be on improving the lives of Serbian people. Kosovo's independence is a reality. Looking for other models is a desperate move.
Dream on....it's ridiculous the amount of time and resources Serbian politicians spent on Kosovo on a daily basis. When the focus should be on improving the lives of Serbian people. Kosovo's independence is a reality. Looking for other models is a desperate move.
Watcher this is not a soccer game, where all the children win trophies no matter if they win the game or not. This is about denying a genocidal scizofrenic country the opportunity to ever rule the lives of those it maimed a persecuted. This is the compromise. No matter how you dress it up this is what it boils down to. A country is a social contract. Serbia broke that country unilaterally when it decided to burn our houses and kill our children. Whether you feel you want a trophy or not is of no importance. The social contract is no longer there, the country no longer exists.
As a American president once said " always better to jaw-jaw that to war-war"...I FULLY agree.
It would NOT be fair to settle Kosovo with one side completeley unhappy and the other side feeling they got everything. Actually it might be fair to me & you, but definantley not to the future generations who will be getting hurt, maimed and even killed because their forefathers could not come up with a compromise that BOTH can live with and put up with.
If you are a father ( I have 5 little kids), you would understand about compromising. Again, I'm not dissing the Albanians nor Serbians about what they feel is right, just looking at the overall picture to avoid future bloodshed...
Where is the harmony they speak of and the fact they are on the same page? Nikolic says he will have a solution to Kosovo very soon, Vucic says it is not the time. Who will win the struggle. It will soon come down to who will be the true leader of Serbia. Nikolic is a loose cannon and may be well liked in Serbia for his rhetoric but not very respected outside. Vucic is respected outside of Serbia and realizes that to not isolate itself totally Serbia cannot come out with an actual plan on Kosovo being a part of Serbia.
It is one thing right now for the govt to say they will never recognize the UDI of Kosovo, which leaves the room in peoples mind that they will probably at some point do a pseudo joint agreement. But to come out with a state plan that Serbia will institute policies for the reincorporation of Kosovo under Serbian control will just delay EU talks years or decades or forever.
Notice while most of the international community, that matters, says they do not expect Serbia to RECOGNIZE Kosovo, none of them are saying they think it is acceptable for Serbia to continue to claim Kosovo as theirs.
@ Demi
Valid questions! Thanks for your feedback.
However,I could say the same thing.."why should YOU have the land in Kosovo?
@Watcher--Your whole premise is wrong. The land is not yours, nor mine, nor Vucic's or Nilolic's. None of those people live in Kosova. The land is property of the people who live in Kosova (Albanians and Serbs). Its that simple. Now, that we got that out of the way we go to the next point. The social contract which makes a country is broken. Therefore Serbia as a country does not exist in Kosova (take out a few villages and N. Nitro).So there's no social contract, hence no country and no land. Meaning Serbia is a foreign entity, like Louxenburg is a foreign entity, aside from N.Nitro and a few villages. Those are the only things were a compromise can be reached. This isn't possible because in order to ask for Kosova to be split, Serbia has to say out loud what it says whispering, meaning Serbia is a foreign entity in Kosova, aside from N. Nitro and a few villages, therefore Serbia cannot rule them.You are also wrong about fighting for N.Mitro. The ones that fight hardest to keep it in Kosova reside in Belgrade. To have reached a compromise Serbia first had to realize that Albanian dominated areas are an independent country. The rest is open for debate. Anything else is a non-starter because it boils down to Serbia having sovereignty over Albanians. Its simple, in Kosova only Albanians are sovereign to Albanians. That's were all starts and ends.
Serbian Lands Flying in the Clouds! Does any Serbian in the world think that Kosovo is the only Serbian territory at stake here? What will be the next Serbian territoy that will be demanded by our evil enemies? If a evil violent thug with a gun and knief in the street beats you up and takes all your hard earned money do you think that same evil thug will bow before you the next time he sees you or will he again beat you up and take your money? I see the USA, England and Germany is learning sadistic torture methods from their Islam buddies, does Serbia have to go down on it's knees and give the final death speech and condem itself before the head is chooped off? What happened in 1999 with the degenerate Clinton and Blair under the direction and orders of Germany most likely would be impossible today. Now just a short time period later we are in a new era, the world is getting a good taste of Islam. Now Russia, Chine and India are the leading military power in the world. There is no need for Serbia to be humiliated and tortured any more, enough is enough. Our Serbian lands sacred and beloved, paid for over and over with the blood of our fathers. Our fathers who are in Heaven with our Lord Crucified and Holy look down upon us with tears today. What will we tell our children and their children and so on, Serbia our sacred nation? Serbia and Russia United, who in the world would dare steal any territory away from Russia? Bratska Sloga Zlatan Plod, Nova Doba Novu Srecu Boze Daj!
....So I wouldn't say Serbia has nothing to offer, be it together towards EU or some deal that includes Serbian interests in Kosovo in exchange for a recognition. ...I wonder however about what Serbia comes up with in order to convince/seduce the Kosovo-Albanians. It should be something damn-good...
(JS, 8 January 2015 15:08)
The right solution is the formation of Serb Association in Kosovo(which will represent Serbian interests in Kosovo) and Serbia to recognize Kosovo and move on.
The other solution is exchange territories i.e Zubin-Potok with Preshevo and Serbia will formally recognize Kosovo.
Unfortunately Serbia doesn't agree with any of those sane solutions,instead offers... South Tyrol model???!!!
K-Alb have already 108 diplomatic recognition and are being supported by the West and all G7 countries. More countries will recognize Kosovo, while none of them has change their mind. Only 20 countries and Russia are firmly on Serbian side...
Also Serbia can not be part of EU with Kosovo inside of her border and this is a fact.
So the Serbian solution is... South Tyrol? C'mon man!
I don't know what kind of medication is Nikolic but surely he should change his doctor.
I understand your logic. All that you wrote have been negotiated between Kosova and Serbia since The end of the war 15 years ago. Unfortunately we coulden't come to an common solution and Kosova coulden't stay in an limbo forever. Serbia offered autonomy (wich Kosova once had) and Kosova wanted full independece (with national flag and everything). The final solution came as Kosova gave the minority serbs equal rights in exchange for independece from Serbia. Independence to make an safe house for the majority population in Kosova.
As for the land. Both can claim it since both Albanians and Serbs have lived here for centurys. Now both have it. Kosova-Albanians and Kosova-Serbs. Serbia has its own land and the land in Kosova belongs to the people of Kosova both Albanians and Serbs.
(Watcher, 7 January 2015 22:11
There has already been war and bloodshed over Kosovo. But there will not be again for several reasons. Res 1244 is probably going to be in effect for quite sometime, and in it Kfor(NATO) is mandated to keep the peace. Serbia is not foolish enough to take on NATO, it would also pretty much end Serbia's goal of anything to do with the EU. The mood is not there for the Serbian people (as a whole, sure some would love a war especially those living safely in other countries). The only military assistance Serbia could get is from Russia and that is extremely doubtful.
Now as you have touted your more than autonomy less than independence campaign, answer one question. In order to bring the Albanian led govt of Kosovo back to a negotiating table with Serbia, what could Serbia offer that they do not already possess? What would be the incentive for the people of Kosovo to become a part of Serbia again.
This is a serious question and I am interested to see if you can come up with a serious answer.
You also have to remember that should Serbia want to enter the EU with Kosovo as a part, the process would have to begin from the beginning as none of the negotiation process to date has included Kosovo. So you are looking at least 5 years to redo all the laws of Serbia to give necessary guarantees to Kosovo citizens once an agreement was reached before the process of EU admission could begin anew. I can think of nothing Serbia could offer.
Nikolic's statements have nothing to do with reality on the ground and he knows it. The main reason he's out campaigning on the Kosovo issue is to hide his shortcomings as president of Serbia (declining economy, rule of law, etc).
In a weeks time Serb dignitaries will meet with a representatives of a country which doesn't recognize Kosovo. The following day Serb media will broad cast the 'news'. Fast forward a couple of weeks and serb officials will proclaim that they will never recognize Kosovo. Fast forward some more and they will claim that they have to recognize Kosovo in order to get into EU.
Rinse and repeat.
If you fail to see this then you must be Ari Gold.
Albanians have offered more than needed to an 5% minority (serbs). Neutral flag and anthem of the country not to provoke them. Right to use their own language. Wide rights and self-determination. The serbs take part in every goverment etc etc.
That is what we offered Serbia. To take care of their people in Kosova in the best way. Serbs in Kosova has more rights than any minority in Europe. Why would an piece of land satisfy Serbia? In what way ?
Serbian people living safely in other countries? No matter what country in the world we inhabit we are still defined by the blood that flows through our hearts. No matter where I live or pass in this world the blood inside my heart is Serbian. Every Serbian who is alive today any where in the world is a decendant of Serbia and all of it's history good or bad. One problem that Serbian people have is that they some times don't trust each other, even brothers of one mother. It does not matter what part of Serbia or our former Jugoslavia or even any other place in the world we happen to live in, our blood is Serbian. So both my parents suffered severly by the hands of Hitler and Croation Ustase in WW2 and ended up living and dying not in their beloved home land Jugoslavia. Yes we Serbian children love our true home land as much as our beloved brothers and sisters living there. As far as safely living in other nations, well I can tell you there is no safety any where in the world. We Eastern Orthodox Slavic people need to be prepared to defend our lives at any given moment. All Serbian children male and female should as soon as they begin to walk learn self defense martial arts and as soon as they are about 10 years old to learn and become expert marksmen with firearms. Every Serbian must be confident and strong to preserve our sacred and honorable race. Our Serbian heritage God and Country! God Bless my Serbian Brothers and Sisters with UNITY, Bratska Sloga Bice Poraz Vragu!
Demi your Freudian slip gave it all away. The "fear" solution Iis basically what it is to the Kosovo Serbs as it is they and the other minority groups that have been hounded out of their ancestral homes and those few that remain are in UN guarded ghettos. Doesn't sound much like fairness to me and it certainly isn' freedom.
(Polygraph, 9 January 2015 04:46)
I misspelled that word. I meant fair ofcourse.
As for serbs living in UN ghettos? Did you come up with that yours self without facts?
Serb in Kosova live in their own ruled municipalities. They participate in both local and national election in Kosova. They are also part of the Goverment of Kosova. Above that they have their own police.
Maybee everything thing is not perfect yet. There as still tensions between Albanians and Serbs. But it is much better and it will be even better in the future. Kosova goverment will make sure of that.
The time where you can throw the blaim on serbs living in ghettos is over.
(Watcher, 8 January 2015 16:26)
I would have agreed with your proposal 10 years ago but like the saying goes too much water has flowed under the bridge. I believe the international community would have supported a similar plan in the beginning with strong assurances that it could never be revoked. Unfortunately the people at the table could not see a compromised future. Serbs wanted to keep the Albanians as a subclass without equal rights and Albanians wanted total separation.
But in 2015 with Kosovo already recognized by more than half the countries in the world and gaining more memberships in international organizations. The only thing really missing is UN membership, and under your plan Kosovo would never have a UN seat so what is the incentive to give up what they have.
As far as what is given to the Serbs it is the connection with the Serb communities and protection of their rights, with full international support.
Do I think that any solution found will quiet the extremists on both sides of the field, no but they really are in the minority.
Serbia has gotten an accelerated start to the EU for its compromises at the table. Do you think that without them agreeing to come to the table they would have had the visa liberalization or Stabilization Agreement?
Kosovo has to attend to continue receive western support, without which they would collapse, economically and politically.
Kosovo is not South Tyrol. Serb North Kosovo is South Tyrol. Serbia will probably announce its removing Kosovo from its constitution which is in line with its policies of having an ambassador dejan pavicevic to Kosovo. Customs agents and border guards on serbias international border with Kosovo. Kosovo Serbs in big numbers voted on republic of Kosovo central election Comission ballots. What will be the autonomy of Serbs within Serbia recognized independent Kosovo? Lots of Serbs in Kosovo still believe they live in Serbia with no encouragement from Serbia. Serbia went out of its way to have ballots of Serbian citizens in Kosovo who voted in the Serbian elections have their ballots counted outside Kosovo so no Serb can believe voting in Kosovo in a Serbian election means Kosovo is a part of Serbia anymore.
@ Demi
Valid questions! Thanks for your feedback.
However,I could say the same thing.."why should YOU have the land in Kosovo?" You could say "because we have it"...I could say " but it was ours before your stronger & bigger friends took it from us and gave it to you". You will say, "but you abused , killed and drove us out, you don't deserve the land", I could say" your resistence fighters were ambushing & killing policeman belgrade sent to protect surrounding villagers from your resistence fighters", You could say" but Belgrade was denying Albanians our rights and abusing us first", I could say....WHERE DOES THIS END? STOP looking back, sit down and come up with an agreement that remotely satifies BOTH side so my & your kids can eat, drink, play sports TOGETHER!!!
Albanians in Kosovo are fighting not to have Northern Kosovo amputated just as hard as Serbia is fighting not to have Kosovo amputated! Where does all this stop?
...All Serbian children male and female should as soon as they begin to walk learn self defense martial arts and as soon as they are about 10 years old to learn and become expert marksmen with firearms. Every Serbian must be confident and strong to preserve our sacred and honorable race. Our Serbian heritage God and Country! God Bless my Serbian Brothers and Sisters with UNITY, Bratska Sloga Bice Poraz Vragu!
(Dragoljub Djurkovic, 8 January 2015 19:43)....
What are you smoking?
Secondly, I think is better to advise Serbian people to have more kids, than to start learning marital arts etc.
Every year Serbian population shrinks by 50 thousand and will continue to shrink with higher numbers.
So no matter how good you will be in martial arts you are not going to rule the region.
Watcher, sorry but that is a confusing way to put it. What does "deed to the land" mean? Is it ownership proof? If it is ownership proof, what does it entail? If as you say, you agree that Kosovo can have everything (including UN membership, army, taxes, independent laws, foreign policy, embassy in Belgrade and viceversa, Serbia has an embassy in Pristina, etc etc) wouldn't the "deed to the land" be just a meaningless thing? Imagine Turkey having the "deed to the land" for Serbia these days, because Serbia was once in the Ottoman Empire? Why would you want a meaningless peace of paper?
That is what we offered Serbia. To take care of their people in Kosova in the best way. Serbs in Kosova has more rights than any minority in Europe. Why would an piece of land satisfy Serbia? In what way ?
(Demi, 8 January 2015 17:11)
Another lie, they dont have the rights to go to school without getting stoned, they dont have the rights to go to churches and monesterys without getting attacked. They dont have the rights not get their graveyards, churches and monesterys vandalized and burned. You albanians had the right to education in your own language, tv and newspapers in your own language within Serbia. Serbs have none of these rights. Serbs have every right to Kosovo since it is ancient serbian territory and never has been albanian.
Demi your Freudian slip gave it all away. The "fear" solution Iis basically what it is to the Kosovo Serbs as it is they and the other minority groups that have been hounded out of their ancestral homes and those few that remain are in UN guarded ghettos. Doesn't sound much like fairness to me and it certainly isn' freedom.
(a New day, 8 January 2015 10:34)
Well, Kosovo is never going to be part of EU on its own. Too many too important countries will never change their opinions. Chances for unification with Albania aren't that great either; even US won't allow it to. So basically, the EU-path is either with Serbia or independent, the latter only in a form that Serbia (and 5 EU members) recognizes. So I wouldn't say Serbia has nothing to offer, be it together towards EU or some deal that includes Serbian interests in Kosovo in exchange for a recognition. The current semi-independent status is, economically spoken, leading nowhere, just look at the unemployment rates. No-one is going to invest in a place with an uncertain status. I wonder however about what Serbia comes up with in order to convince/seduce the Kosovo-Albanians. It should be something damn-good...
Thank you for the response. A VERY good question and I appreciate that!
You are right...there is nothing Serbia can offer the Albanians right now to temper their taste for independence. That's why UDI was not right timing or proceedure. I'm not saying that as a Serbian trying to stick it to a Albanian, absolutley not! I would say it even if things were turned around. The clear cut answer, at least to me, is that Albanians have and run their OWN business, having absolutley NOTHING to do with Serbia. No taxes to Serbia, their own police, schools, laws, language, economy, you name it with full internationally accepted rights for ALL minorities, just like in any country....except the deed to the land. WHY? Because the Albanians ALREADY have everything, what are they offering Serbia in negotiatians? That means BOTH have to give something, otherwise why are they at the table? Are the Albanians just sitting at the table there waiting for the Serbians to say "ok, we give up". My whole point is "lets make a deal NOW so our children don't have a reason to fight LATER...I don't put my hope in Res 1244 or KFOR or NATO...those are things that are here NOW, that could change overnight...I think you would agree on that. Thanks!Please reply with your thoughts...I like our dialoge.
What I don't understand is the mentality of deception.
What you say could very well happen and probably will...my question is WHY would you want it like that. Wouldn't you want to have a "country" based on a solid foundation that will survive all future questions, trials & tribulations? What good does it do for you to "trick" or "force" Serbia to recognize you? And I'm saying that it could very well happen...some Serb politician will be "bought" or "threatened" and bang...theres you're recognition. Is that how you want the history of your country to be documented? "We tricked them" or "our friends were bigger & stronger" is not the way to a safe & secure future... I have always said, the Albanian & Serbian common folk pay a heavy price for ultra nationalists from BOTH side actions. BOTH sides did much wrong, but also BOTH side good things! Tit for Tat is NOT the answer!Serbian blood is not more precious tha Albanian and vice-versa...I've said it before and I say it again...Serbian & Albanian Represenatives need to sit down ALONE , without outside interference, and hammer out an agreement that will survive all questions & problems in the future!!If not now, WHEN? If not us, WHO?
Mirel from Albania, many thanks for your comment to my comment! So the Serbian population is shrinking by 50 thousand every year and that means that we Serbians are headed towards extinction and when we are all gone the Albanians who are having large population explosion from higher birth rates and other Islamic immigrants moving in from all parts of Islam can just move right in and take the rest of Serbia? Again many thanks to you Mirel because you are honest and come up to the point so that every body can understand the situation here before us all.
Dream on....it's ridiculous the amount of time and resources Serbian politicians spent on Kosovo on a daily basis. When the focus should be on improving the lives of Serbian people. Kosovo's independence is a reality. Looking for other models is a desperate move.
Serbian Lands Flying in the Clouds! Does any Serbian in the world think that Kosovo is the only Serbian territory at stake here? What will be the next Serbian territoy that will be demanded by our evil enemies? If a evil violent thug with a gun and knief in the street beats you up and takes all your hard earned money do you think that same evil thug will bow before you the next time he sees you or will he again beat you up and take your money? I see the USA, England and Germany is learning sadistic torture methods from their Islam buddies, does Serbia have to go down on it's knees and give the final death speech and condem itself before the head is chooped off? What happened in 1999 with the degenerate Clinton and Blair under the direction and orders of Germany most likely would be impossible today. Now just a short time period later we are in a new era, the world is getting a good taste of Islam. Now Russia, Chine and India are the leading military power in the world. There is no need for Serbia to be humiliated and tortured any more, enough is enough. Our Serbian lands sacred and beloved, paid for over and over with the blood of our fathers. Our fathers who are in Heaven with our Lord Crucified and Holy look down upon us with tears today. What will we tell our children and their children and so on, Serbia our sacred nation? Serbia and Russia United, who in the world would dare steal any territory away from Russia? Bratska Sloga Zlatan Plod, Nova Doba Novu Srecu Boze Daj!
Serbian people living safely in other countries? No matter what country in the world we inhabit we are still defined by the blood that flows through our hearts. No matter where I live or pass in this world the blood inside my heart is Serbian. Every Serbian who is alive today any where in the world is a decendant of Serbia and all of it's history good or bad. One problem that Serbian people have is that they some times don't trust each other, even brothers of one mother. It does not matter what part of Serbia or our former Jugoslavia or even any other place in the world we happen to live in, our blood is Serbian. So both my parents suffered severly by the hands of Hitler and Croation Ustase in WW2 and ended up living and dying not in their beloved home land Jugoslavia. Yes we Serbian children love our true home land as much as our beloved brothers and sisters living there. As far as safely living in other nations, well I can tell you there is no safety any where in the world. We Eastern Orthodox Slavic people need to be prepared to defend our lives at any given moment. All Serbian children male and female should as soon as they begin to walk learn self defense martial arts and as soon as they are about 10 years old to learn and become expert marksmen with firearms. Every Serbian must be confident and strong to preserve our sacred and honorable race. Our Serbian heritage God and Country! God Bless my Serbian Brothers and Sisters with UNITY, Bratska Sloga Bice Poraz Vragu!
Watcher this is not a soccer game, where all the children win trophies no matter if they win the game or not. This is about denying a genocidal scizofrenic country the opportunity to ever rule the lives of those it maimed a persecuted. This is the compromise. No matter how you dress it up this is what it boils down to. A country is a social contract. Serbia broke that country unilaterally when it decided to burn our houses and kill our children. Whether you feel you want a trophy or not is of no importance. The social contract is no longer there, the country no longer exists.
(Watcher, 7 January 2015 22:11
There has already been war and bloodshed over Kosovo. But there will not be again for several reasons. Res 1244 is probably going to be in effect for quite sometime, and in it Kfor(NATO) is mandated to keep the peace. Serbia is not foolish enough to take on NATO, it would also pretty much end Serbia's goal of anything to do with the EU. The mood is not there for the Serbian people (as a whole, sure some would love a war especially those living safely in other countries). The only military assistance Serbia could get is from Russia and that is extremely doubtful.
Now as you have touted your more than autonomy less than independence campaign, answer one question. In order to bring the Albanian led govt of Kosovo back to a negotiating table with Serbia, what could Serbia offer that they do not already possess? What would be the incentive for the people of Kosovo to become a part of Serbia again.
This is a serious question and I am interested to see if you can come up with a serious answer.
You also have to remember that should Serbia want to enter the EU with Kosovo as a part, the process would have to begin from the beginning as none of the negotiation process to date has included Kosovo. So you are looking at least 5 years to redo all the laws of Serbia to give necessary guarantees to Kosovo citizens once an agreement was reached before the process of EU admission could begin anew. I can think of nothing Serbia could offer.
That is what we offered Serbia. To take care of their people in Kosova in the best way. Serbs in Kosova has more rights than any minority in Europe. Why would an piece of land satisfy Serbia? In what way ?
(Demi, 8 January 2015 17:11)
Another lie, they dont have the rights to go to school without getting stoned, they dont have the rights to go to churches and monesterys without getting attacked. They dont have the rights not get their graveyards, churches and monesterys vandalized and burned. You albanians had the right to education in your own language, tv and newspapers in your own language within Serbia. Serbs have none of these rights. Serbs have every right to Kosovo since it is ancient serbian territory and never has been albanian.
Demi your Freudian slip gave it all away. The "fear" solution Iis basically what it is to the Kosovo Serbs as it is they and the other minority groups that have been hounded out of their ancestral homes and those few that remain are in UN guarded ghettos. Doesn't sound much like fairness to me and it certainly isn' freedom.
Mirel from Albania, many thanks for your comment to my comment! So the Serbian population is shrinking by 50 thousand every year and that means that we Serbians are headed towards extinction and when we are all gone the Albanians who are having large population explosion from higher birth rates and other Islamic immigrants moving in from all parts of Islam can just move right in and take the rest of Serbia? Again many thanks to you Mirel because you are honest and come up to the point so that every body can understand the situation here before us all.
Where is the harmony they speak of and the fact they are on the same page? Nikolic says he will have a solution to Kosovo very soon, Vucic says it is not the time. Who will win the struggle. It will soon come down to who will be the true leader of Serbia. Nikolic is a loose cannon and may be well liked in Serbia for his rhetoric but not very respected outside. Vucic is respected outside of Serbia and realizes that to not isolate itself totally Serbia cannot come out with an actual plan on Kosovo being a part of Serbia.
It is one thing right now for the govt to say they will never recognize the UDI of Kosovo, which leaves the room in peoples mind that they will probably at some point do a pseudo joint agreement. But to come out with a state plan that Serbia will institute policies for the reincorporation of Kosovo under Serbian control will just delay EU talks years or decades or forever.
Notice while most of the international community, that matters, says they do not expect Serbia to RECOGNIZE Kosovo, none of them are saying they think it is acceptable for Serbia to continue to claim Kosovo as theirs.
....So I wouldn't say Serbia has nothing to offer, be it together towards EU or some deal that includes Serbian interests in Kosovo in exchange for a recognition. ...I wonder however about what Serbia comes up with in order to convince/seduce the Kosovo-Albanians. It should be something damn-good...
(JS, 8 January 2015 15:08)
The right solution is the formation of Serb Association in Kosovo(which will represent Serbian interests in Kosovo) and Serbia to recognize Kosovo and move on.
The other solution is exchange territories i.e Zubin-Potok with Preshevo and Serbia will formally recognize Kosovo.
Unfortunately Serbia doesn't agree with any of those sane solutions,instead offers... South Tyrol model???!!!
K-Alb have already 108 diplomatic recognition and are being supported by the West and all G7 countries. More countries will recognize Kosovo, while none of them has change their mind. Only 20 countries and Russia are firmly on Serbian side...
Also Serbia can not be part of EU with Kosovo inside of her border and this is a fact.
So the Serbian solution is... South Tyrol? C'mon man!
I don't know what kind of medication is Nikolic but surely he should change his doctor.
As a American president once said " always better to jaw-jaw that to war-war"...I FULLY agree.
It would NOT be fair to settle Kosovo with one side completeley unhappy and the other side feeling they got everything. Actually it might be fair to me & you, but definantley not to the future generations who will be getting hurt, maimed and even killed because their forefathers could not come up with a compromise that BOTH can live with and put up with.
If you are a father ( I have 5 little kids), you would understand about compromising. Again, I'm not dissing the Albanians nor Serbians about what they feel is right, just looking at the overall picture to avoid future bloodshed...
Kosovo is not South Tyrol. Serb North Kosovo is South Tyrol. Serbia will probably announce its removing Kosovo from its constitution which is in line with its policies of having an ambassador dejan pavicevic to Kosovo. Customs agents and border guards on serbias international border with Kosovo. Kosovo Serbs in big numbers voted on republic of Kosovo central election Comission ballots. What will be the autonomy of Serbs within Serbia recognized independent Kosovo? Lots of Serbs in Kosovo still believe they live in Serbia with no encouragement from Serbia. Serbia went out of its way to have ballots of Serbian citizens in Kosovo who voted in the Serbian elections have their ballots counted outside Kosovo so no Serb can believe voting in Kosovo in a Serbian election means Kosovo is a part of Serbia anymore.
(a New day, 8 January 2015 10:34)
Well, Kosovo is never going to be part of EU on its own. Too many too important countries will never change their opinions. Chances for unification with Albania aren't that great either; even US won't allow it to. So basically, the EU-path is either with Serbia or independent, the latter only in a form that Serbia (and 5 EU members) recognizes. So I wouldn't say Serbia has nothing to offer, be it together towards EU or some deal that includes Serbian interests in Kosovo in exchange for a recognition. The current semi-independent status is, economically spoken, leading nowhere, just look at the unemployment rates. No-one is going to invest in a place with an uncertain status. I wonder however about what Serbia comes up with in order to convince/seduce the Kosovo-Albanians. It should be something damn-good...
Albanians have offered more than needed to an 5% minority (serbs). Neutral flag and anthem of the country not to provoke them. Right to use their own language. Wide rights and self-determination. The serbs take part in every goverment etc etc.
That is what we offered Serbia. To take care of their people in Kosova in the best way. Serbs in Kosova has more rights than any minority in Europe. Why would an piece of land satisfy Serbia? In what way ?
What I don't understand is the mentality of deception.
What you say could very well happen and probably will...my question is WHY would you want it like that. Wouldn't you want to have a "country" based on a solid foundation that will survive all future questions, trials & tribulations? What good does it do for you to "trick" or "force" Serbia to recognize you? And I'm saying that it could very well happen...some Serb politician will be "bought" or "threatened" and bang...theres you're recognition. Is that how you want the history of your country to be documented? "We tricked them" or "our friends were bigger & stronger" is not the way to a safe & secure future... I have always said, the Albanian & Serbian common folk pay a heavy price for ultra nationalists from BOTH side actions. BOTH sides did much wrong, but also BOTH side good things! Tit for Tat is NOT the answer!Serbian blood is not more precious tha Albanian and vice-versa...I've said it before and I say it again...Serbian & Albanian Represenatives need to sit down ALONE , without outside interference, and hammer out an agreement that will survive all questions & problems in the future!!If not now, WHEN? If not us, WHO?
...All Serbian children male and female should as soon as they begin to walk learn self defense martial arts and as soon as they are about 10 years old to learn and become expert marksmen with firearms. Every Serbian must be confident and strong to preserve our sacred and honorable race. Our Serbian heritage God and Country! God Bless my Serbian Brothers and Sisters with UNITY, Bratska Sloga Bice Poraz Vragu!
(Dragoljub Djurkovic, 8 January 2015 19:43)....
What are you smoking?
Secondly, I think is better to advise Serbian people to have more kids, than to start learning marital arts etc.
Every year Serbian population shrinks by 50 thousand and will continue to shrink with higher numbers.
So no matter how good you will be in martial arts you are not going to rule the region.
Thank you for the response. A VERY good question and I appreciate that!
You are right...there is nothing Serbia can offer the Albanians right now to temper their taste for independence. That's why UDI was not right timing or proceedure. I'm not saying that as a Serbian trying to stick it to a Albanian, absolutley not! I would say it even if things were turned around. The clear cut answer, at least to me, is that Albanians have and run their OWN business, having absolutley NOTHING to do with Serbia. No taxes to Serbia, their own police, schools, laws, language, economy, you name it with full internationally accepted rights for ALL minorities, just like in any country....except the deed to the land. WHY? Because the Albanians ALREADY have everything, what are they offering Serbia in negotiatians? That means BOTH have to give something, otherwise why are they at the table? Are the Albanians just sitting at the table there waiting for the Serbians to say "ok, we give up". My whole point is "lets make a deal NOW so our children don't have a reason to fight LATER...I don't put my hope in Res 1244 or KFOR or NATO...those are things that are here NOW, that could change overnight...I think you would agree on that. Thanks!Please reply with your thoughts...I like our dialoge.
I understand your logic. All that you wrote have been negotiated between Kosova and Serbia since The end of the war 15 years ago. Unfortunately we coulden't come to an common solution and Kosova coulden't stay in an limbo forever. Serbia offered autonomy (wich Kosova once had) and Kosova wanted full independece (with national flag and everything). The final solution came as Kosova gave the minority serbs equal rights in exchange for independece from Serbia. Independence to make an safe house for the majority population in Kosova.
As for the land. Both can claim it since both Albanians and Serbs have lived here for centurys. Now both have it. Kosova-Albanians and Kosova-Serbs. Serbia has its own land and the land in Kosova belongs to the people of Kosova both Albanians and Serbs.
@ Demi
Valid questions! Thanks for your feedback.
However,I could say the same thing.."why should YOU have the land in Kosovo?" You could say "because we have it"...I could say " but it was ours before your stronger & bigger friends took it from us and gave it to you". You will say, "but you abused , killed and drove us out, you don't deserve the land", I could say" your resistence fighters were ambushing & killing policeman belgrade sent to protect surrounding villagers from your resistence fighters", You could say" but Belgrade was denying Albanians our rights and abusing us first", I could say....WHERE DOES THIS END? STOP looking back, sit down and come up with an agreement that remotely satifies BOTH side so my & your kids can eat, drink, play sports TOGETHER!!!
Albanians in Kosovo are fighting not to have Northern Kosovo amputated just as hard as Serbia is fighting not to have Kosovo amputated! Where does all this stop?
Demi your Freudian slip gave it all away. The "fear" solution Iis basically what it is to the Kosovo Serbs as it is they and the other minority groups that have been hounded out of their ancestral homes and those few that remain are in UN guarded ghettos. Doesn't sound much like fairness to me and it certainly isn' freedom.
(Polygraph, 9 January 2015 04:46)
I misspelled that word. I meant fair ofcourse.
As for serbs living in UN ghettos? Did you come up with that yours self without facts?
Serb in Kosova live in their own ruled municipalities. They participate in both local and national election in Kosova. They are also part of the Goverment of Kosova. Above that they have their own police.
Maybee everything thing is not perfect yet. There as still tensions between Albanians and Serbs. But it is much better and it will be even better in the future. Kosova goverment will make sure of that.
The time where you can throw the blaim on serbs living in ghettos is over.
Nikolic's statements have nothing to do with reality on the ground and he knows it. The main reason he's out campaigning on the Kosovo issue is to hide his shortcomings as president of Serbia (declining economy, rule of law, etc).
In a weeks time Serb dignitaries will meet with a representatives of a country which doesn't recognize Kosovo. The following day Serb media will broad cast the 'news'. Fast forward a couple of weeks and serb officials will proclaim that they will never recognize Kosovo. Fast forward some more and they will claim that they have to recognize Kosovo in order to get into EU.
Rinse and repeat.
If you fail to see this then you must be Ari Gold.
Watcher, sorry but that is a confusing way to put it. What does "deed to the land" mean? Is it ownership proof? If it is ownership proof, what does it entail? If as you say, you agree that Kosovo can have everything (including UN membership, army, taxes, independent laws, foreign policy, embassy in Belgrade and viceversa, Serbia has an embassy in Pristina, etc etc) wouldn't the "deed to the land" be just a meaningless thing? Imagine Turkey having the "deed to the land" for Serbia these days, because Serbia was once in the Ottoman Empire? Why would you want a meaningless peace of paper?
@ Demi
Valid questions! Thanks for your feedback.
However,I could say the same thing.."why should YOU have the land in Kosovo?
@Watcher--Your whole premise is wrong. The land is not yours, nor mine, nor Vucic's or Nilolic's. None of those people live in Kosova. The land is property of the people who live in Kosova (Albanians and Serbs). Its that simple. Now, that we got that out of the way we go to the next point. The social contract which makes a country is broken. Therefore Serbia as a country does not exist in Kosova (take out a few villages and N. Nitro).So there's no social contract, hence no country and no land. Meaning Serbia is a foreign entity, like Louxenburg is a foreign entity, aside from N.Nitro and a few villages. Those are the only things were a compromise can be reached. This isn't possible because in order to ask for Kosova to be split, Serbia has to say out loud what it says whispering, meaning Serbia is a foreign entity in Kosova, aside from N. Nitro and a few villages, therefore Serbia cannot rule them.You are also wrong about fighting for N.Mitro. The ones that fight hardest to keep it in Kosova reside in Belgrade. To have reached a compromise Serbia first had to realize that Albanian dominated areas are an independent country. The rest is open for debate. Anything else is a non-starter because it boils down to Serbia having sovereignty over Albanians. Its simple, in Kosova only Albanians are sovereign to Albanians. That's were all starts and ends.
(Watcher, 8 January 2015 16:26)
I would have agreed with your proposal 10 years ago but like the saying goes too much water has flowed under the bridge. I believe the international community would have supported a similar plan in the beginning with strong assurances that it could never be revoked. Unfortunately the people at the table could not see a compromised future. Serbs wanted to keep the Albanians as a subclass without equal rights and Albanians wanted total separation.
But in 2015 with Kosovo already recognized by more than half the countries in the world and gaining more memberships in international organizations. The only thing really missing is UN membership, and under your plan Kosovo would never have a UN seat so what is the incentive to give up what they have.
As far as what is given to the Serbs it is the connection with the Serb communities and protection of their rights, with full international support.
Do I think that any solution found will quiet the extremists on both sides of the field, no but they really are in the minority.
Serbia has gotten an accelerated start to the EU for its compromises at the table. Do you think that without them agreeing to come to the table they would have had the visa liberalization or Stabilization Agreement?
Kosovo has to attend to continue receive western support, without which they would collapse, economically and politically.
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