Serbia is at the center of the customer base and will be a major storage hub. Serbia can run lines south to Pristina and Macedonia east into Romania, south west into Bosnia and Montenegro, North west into Croatia and Hungary.
Serbia is central to the south stream. anything going east to west will pass through it.
Danilo, if you are thinking that the pipeline would go through Romania, that is very doubtful. First, Romania is not very reliable, too much of a NATO puppet, and will be even less reliable when half of Moldova votes to join Russia. Russia knows very well that Bulgaria and Serbia are far more reliable partners. Besides, the agreement with Serbia is signed, and if south stream does not go ahead then Serbia gets NIS back.
Bye-bye South-Stream
(willi Pfaff, 27 March 2014 18:17)
Hey genius, do you realize that now that Crimea is Russian, the capital cost of the South Stream project has been reduced by $5 Billion dollars? Yep, the Black Sea portion of the pipeline just got a lot shorter :) . Also, the way the neo-nazis in Ukraine are going, they are going to lose Odessa too, which will knock a few more billion off the capital cost :). South Stream is getting more and more profitable by the day :).
Where are they going to get continuous supplies from? are you going to eat more baked beans and bottle all the gas you produce? All this crap about getting cheaper US gas is just that, gas and lots of it. Russia can live without Europe as it can sell all it produces to Asia; you know the only growing economies in the world.
I’ve got some very sad news for you. If South stream is no longer need then there are several western Corporations that are going to be out of pocket big time because Gazprom only hold a small part in the pipeline and if you think they will allow their investments to go down the drain, then think again LOL, LOL.
Perhaps you might ask what the banks said to the US Government when requested to stop Visa and MasterCard in Russia. It was on US TV, and it was a humiliating experience when the bankers told the US government NO, this is business and not politics LOL.
Bye bye Willi.
Stephen Harper is going to send you enough gas to shut down the south stream! Stephen Harper is Obama's angry butler. He used to work for Bush, but Obama keeps him around. The only natural gas he has to sell to Europe comes out of both ends of him.
Bye-bye South-Stream
(willi Pfaff, 27 March 2014 18:17)
--
Keep dreaming willi. When you have a cartel, prices are manipulated. Do you think they are really going to spend the trillions needed to get the infrastructure built when they risk Russia slashing prices to make it not viable? Seriously, it is going to be as successful as Nabucco. LOL! Lots of talk but nothing in the end!
Europe will get Natural Gas from the US in a few years, will happen in a few years.
(willi Pfaff, 27 March 2014 16:47)
The article you gave rests on future predictions and "hope". While that's happening, Russia is "supplying" You want to bank on uncertainties "in a few years" to make an argument, be my guest, because "in a few years" all of this will be forgotten, Crimea will be another unfortunate fait accompli, and business will be as usual. Much like it's going to remain now.
"Bye-bye South-Stream"
You might want to check your geography. I mean you've proven to be largely clueless on Serbian socio-political development but I can't believe you honestly think German economic independence from Russia suddenly nullifies the South Stream project which involves Turkey, Bulgaria, Serbia, Bosnia (via RS), Croatia, Slovenia, and Austria. That has nothing to do with Germany, which might I add is enjoying cheap gas via North Stream.
How's that Nabucco pipe dream going?
By the way, Americans have been calling and pushing for oil dependency from the Middle East since the OPEC Crisis and they're still buddy-buddy with Saudi Arabia. If they ever do decide to consume their own energy and turn Alaska into an oil refinery, you think what they sell an entire continent is going to satisfy your energy consumption?
if you still don't believe me, read todays top news from Spiegel-online. Merkel announced, that the entire German energy policy will be changed and energy imports from Russia drasticly reduced. Steven Harper, the Canadien Prime Minister visted Berlin today, and he also offered that Canada is more than willing to provide natural gas and oil to Europe in order to help reduce imports from Russia. Bye-bye South-Stream
http://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/soziales/krim-krise-merkel-stellt-bisherige-energiepolitik-infrage-a-961144.html
Sorry Willi, it is you who does not understand. Talk to Angela before you post your useless dribble.
It could take years for the US to supply Europe with nartural gas. It doesn't have the facilities to rapidly increase exports not to mention the sensitive issue of fracking.
I read the article. It is interesting, but it does not address the costs or volumes. It doesn't even address who will be recieving the gas.
Why send gas to Europe, when you can send it to Japan and not compete with pipelines? Even still how much gas do you think the floatilla can bring you?
According to the article you posted Germany consumed 1,201,000,000,000 cubic feet of gas in 2012. The largest tankers in the world, Q Max cost half a billion dollars and can hold 9,400,000 cubic feet. If the Q max can make 26 round trips a year a single Q Max can move about 244,400,000 cubic feet. I know that is ambitious, probably not possible, but lets just say that you can load and unload a giant ship and cross the ocean and back in two weeks.
That means you would need about 4914 Q Max ships just to supply Germany.
The looser in this scenario is Serbia and Russia, because "South Stream" no longer will be needed.
(willi Pfaff, 27 March 2014 14:20)
--
Keep dreaming willi. When gas prices sky rocket, increasing energy costs overall, you will see people all over Europe on the streets protesting. Go ahead and test Russia, the German economy will be flat on its face.
Best that you just accept having blood on your hands regarding Ukraine and back off. Now those poor Ukranians have 50% more expensive gas just to get an IMF loan whereas Russia was offering cheaper gas with their bailout package.
And lets not forget, the US has just stolen all of Ukraine's gold reserves. You guys are a bunch of thieves!!
just read this article from the New York times, dated March 5th, and maybe you will understand that the US already is the biggest worldwide producer of natural gas and that exactly what I said, Europe will get Natural Gas from the US in a few years, will happen in a few years.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/06/world/europe/us-seeks-to-reduce-ukraines-reliance-on-russia-for-natural-gas.html?_r=0
and to remind you that this is already agreed on read the followinghttp://www.euronews.com/2014/03/26/obama-us-can-help-europe-reduce-russian-gas-imports/
Willi
How is the gas from the US going to get to Europe, and what makes you think the US sells its energy cheap?
The answer is a flotilla of ships that can hold pressurized LPG will have to be commisioned and insured. They will have to cross the ocean and be unloaded at major european ports and return to the US completely empty. In order to assure a steady flow, major holding faciilities will have to be built to store the gas next to the ports and connected to pipelines. As Germany shuts down its nuclear power generation, even more ships will have to be commisioned in order to make trips to europe and come back empty. Think of how much it costs for a ship to travel accross the ocean empty. Think of the vapour danger when it returns to port. Think of the economic and environmental costs of evacuating the vapour while refilling.
No one is suggesting that this idea is economically viable or in any way helpful. What would be the point of it? To spite Russia?
How would Russia react? They would pump more of their gas east to China via pipeline. By 2018 Russia will supply a quarter of China's gas needs. Natural Gas is not something they will have any difficulty selling.
Don't know what you are talking about, but Germany never had people without heat in the winter and therefor never had to tell the Ukrain to remember their place.
(willi Pfaff, 27 March 2014 14:20)
Maybe not so much a heat problem, but Germany certainly got involved.
We've seen this scenario before a few years ago when Ukraine balked at paying Russian rent for its pipelines, Russia shut off the gas, and about two weeks later cold Germans told Kiev to remember its place. Obama can threaten with as many Cold War scenarios as he wants, but Germany is not about to jeopardize economic relations with one of its closest trading partners.
(Balkan Anthropologist, 27 March 2014 13:55)
Don't know what you are talking about, but Germany never had people without heat in the winter and therefor never had to tell the Ukrain to remember their place.
But you all are wrong here, Germany already started to move away from its dependance on russian gas and oil, along with the entire EU. Latest in 3 to 4 years maybe about 10% of the energy supplies of western Europe will come from Russiaand the rest from sources in the US or north Africa. The technical means to start bringing gas from the US to Europe are there, and because this gas is so much cheaper than russian gas it will cost about the same after adding transport costs.
The looser in this scenario is Serbia and Russia, because "South Stream" no longer will be needed.
BTW, I stand corrected. The UK has in fact had its say. Last night Clegg and Farage had a national debate on TV and Farage won convincingly. This was shown by polls taken afterwards and Farage in the past has spoken well for our cause.
Now Clegg is shocked that Farage is supporting Putin and comments on the BBC have shown that the public overwhelmingly support Farage. Check -> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-26761258
A comment sample:
The comment below is rated -49 (yes, minus)
35.
Gezza
I am disgusted with Farage at his view of the EU regarding Ukraine and the actions of Putin.
The comment below is rated +163 (yes, plus)
14.
British Imperial
I imagine Clegg was shocked by Farage siding with Putin. Imagine, a politician using their own brain, coming to the right conclusion and defying what they were told to do, say or feel by the Americans. There hasn't been a Uk politician in 30 years that has done that. Might not always agree with Farage but on that he is spot on.
------------
My friends, this is repeated over and over.
I look forward to seeing Ukranian citizen's reaction when their gas bill jumps by 40% shortly.
Cheers!!
(Dragan, 27 March 2014 13:13)
--
Dragane, it is jumping 50% my friend so Ukraine can afford the IMF loan. So Russia offers cheaper gas and funds to help Ukraine and those idiots in Kiev will now get a 50% increase to pay the IMF. Check -> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-26764262
quote "A cut in energy subsidies to consumers has been one of the conditions of an international rescue deal and on Wednesday Ukraine's interim government agreed to raise domestic gas prices by 50% in its effort to secure the IMF aid package."
We've seen this scenario before a few years ago when Ukraine balked at paying Russian rent for its pipelines, Russia shut off the gas, and about two weeks later cold Germans told Kiev to remember its place. Obama can threaten with as many Cold War scenarios as he wants, but Germany is not about to jeopardize economic relations with one of its closest trading partners.
You are both exactly right. Putin is about to sign a massive energy deal with China in fact.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-03-21/petrodollar-alert-isolated-west-putin-prepares-announce-holy-grail-gas-deal-china
The BRICS are in fact standing with Russia, and are completely against any sanctions and are blocking the expulsion of Russia from the G20. I get a real kick out of watching the warmongering neocons and the ignorant mainstream media say the US are going to send their gas to Europe to replace Russian supplies. Only a complete idiot can even say this. It shows the level of ignorance and stupidity of these people, to think that sending gas via ship across the ocean to Europe is going to be cheaper than through a pipeline from Russia! I look forward to seeing Ukranian citizen's reaction when their gas bill jumps by 40% shortly.
Cheers!!
German-Russian trade exchange in 2013 reached EUR 76 billion, about 6,000 German companies are doing business in Russia, the total volume of their investments is EUR 20 billion, and 300,000 jobs in Germany depends on economic relations between the two countries, the news agency reported.
Posturing apart Merkel knows Some eastern EU countries are wholly dependent on Russian energy and even Germany cannot find alternatives to its own Russian gas needs to avoid economic disruption.Economic trouble in one part of the EU, including Germany, would set off a chain reaction across it which would spare no one as the euro crisis showed.The EU sells 370 billion euros of goods to Russia each year. The EU is massively dependant of Russian gas.Any sanctions to appease the US neocons could cause really severe damage to the EU economy.Crimea is such an affront, that Germany will continue to sell Russia lots of Mercedes and things and buy 40% of its gas from Russia thus protecting its Mercantilist economy.However,I do think the US neocons are not interested about the EU economies and they will press for severing its economic ties with Russia.Such a move will force Russia to expand its energy ties with China who is the process of replacing its coal-fired power stations with gas-fired ones.Such a switch will require massive quantities of gas supplies.But the ultimate weapon in the hands of Russia and China will be the dropping of the US $ as a reserve currency and timing is the essence.
German-Russian trade exchange in 2013 reached EUR 76 billion, about 6,000 German companies are doing business in Russia, the total volume of their investments is EUR 20 billion, and 300,000 jobs in Germany depends on economic relations between the two countries, the news agency reported.
Posturing apart Merkel knows Some eastern EU countries are wholly dependent on Russian energy and even Germany cannot find alternatives to its own Russian gas needs to avoid economic disruption.Economic trouble in one part of the EU, including Germany, would set off a chain reaction across it which would spare no one as the euro crisis showed.The EU sells 370 billion euros of goods to Russia each year. The EU is massively dependant of Russian gas.Any sanctions to appease the US neocons could cause really severe damage to the EU economy.Crimea is such an affront, that Germany will continue to sell Russia lots of Mercedes and things and buy 40% of its gas from Russia thus protecting its Mercantilist economy.However,I do think the US neocons are not interested about the EU economies and they will press for severing its economic ties with Russia.Such a move will force Russia to expand its energy ties with China who is the process of replacing its coal-fired power stations with gas-fired ones.Such a switch will require massive quantities of gas supplies.But the ultimate weapon in the hands of Russia and China will be the dropping of the US $ as a reserve currency and timing is the essence.
You are both exactly right. Putin is about to sign a massive energy deal with China in fact.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-03-21/petrodollar-alert-isolated-west-putin-prepares-announce-holy-grail-gas-deal-china
The BRICS are in fact standing with Russia, and are completely against any sanctions and are blocking the expulsion of Russia from the G20. I get a real kick out of watching the warmongering neocons and the ignorant mainstream media say the US are going to send their gas to Europe to replace Russian supplies. Only a complete idiot can even say this. It shows the level of ignorance and stupidity of these people, to think that sending gas via ship across the ocean to Europe is going to be cheaper than through a pipeline from Russia! I look forward to seeing Ukranian citizen's reaction when their gas bill jumps by 40% shortly.
Cheers!!
I look forward to seeing Ukranian citizen's reaction when their gas bill jumps by 40% shortly.
Cheers!!
(Dragan, 27 March 2014 13:13)
--
Dragane, it is jumping 50% my friend so Ukraine can afford the IMF loan. So Russia offers cheaper gas and funds to help Ukraine and those idiots in Kiev will now get a 50% increase to pay the IMF. Check -> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-26764262
quote "A cut in energy subsidies to consumers has been one of the conditions of an international rescue deal and on Wednesday Ukraine's interim government agreed to raise domestic gas prices by 50% in its effort to secure the IMF aid package."
BTW, I stand corrected. The UK has in fact had its say. Last night Clegg and Farage had a national debate on TV and Farage won convincingly. This was shown by polls taken afterwards and Farage in the past has spoken well for our cause.
Now Clegg is shocked that Farage is supporting Putin and comments on the BBC have shown that the public overwhelmingly support Farage. Check -> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-26761258
A comment sample:
The comment below is rated -49 (yes, minus)
35.
Gezza
I am disgusted with Farage at his view of the EU regarding Ukraine and the actions of Putin.
The comment below is rated +163 (yes, plus)
14.
British Imperial
I imagine Clegg was shocked by Farage siding with Putin. Imagine, a politician using their own brain, coming to the right conclusion and defying what they were told to do, say or feel by the Americans. There hasn't been a Uk politician in 30 years that has done that. Might not always agree with Farage but on that he is spot on.
------------
My friends, this is repeated over and over.
The looser in this scenario is Serbia and Russia, because "South Stream" no longer will be needed.
(willi Pfaff, 27 March 2014 14:20)
--
Keep dreaming willi. When gas prices sky rocket, increasing energy costs overall, you will see people all over Europe on the streets protesting. Go ahead and test Russia, the German economy will be flat on its face.
Best that you just accept having blood on your hands regarding Ukraine and back off. Now those poor Ukranians have 50% more expensive gas just to get an IMF loan whereas Russia was offering cheaper gas with their bailout package.
And lets not forget, the US has just stolen all of Ukraine's gold reserves. You guys are a bunch of thieves!!
We've seen this scenario before a few years ago when Ukraine balked at paying Russian rent for its pipelines, Russia shut off the gas, and about two weeks later cold Germans told Kiev to remember its place. Obama can threaten with as many Cold War scenarios as he wants, but Germany is not about to jeopardize economic relations with one of its closest trading partners.
Don't know what you are talking about, but Germany never had people without heat in the winter and therefor never had to tell the Ukrain to remember their place.
(willi Pfaff, 27 March 2014 14:20)
Maybe not so much a heat problem, but Germany certainly got involved.
Willi
How is the gas from the US going to get to Europe, and what makes you think the US sells its energy cheap?
The answer is a flotilla of ships that can hold pressurized LPG will have to be commisioned and insured. They will have to cross the ocean and be unloaded at major european ports and return to the US completely empty. In order to assure a steady flow, major holding faciilities will have to be built to store the gas next to the ports and connected to pipelines. As Germany shuts down its nuclear power generation, even more ships will have to be commisioned in order to make trips to europe and come back empty. Think of how much it costs for a ship to travel accross the ocean empty. Think of the vapour danger when it returns to port. Think of the economic and environmental costs of evacuating the vapour while refilling.
No one is suggesting that this idea is economically viable or in any way helpful. What would be the point of it? To spite Russia?
How would Russia react? They would pump more of their gas east to China via pipeline. By 2018 Russia will supply a quarter of China's gas needs. Natural Gas is not something they will have any difficulty selling.
Sorry Willi, it is you who does not understand. Talk to Angela before you post your useless dribble.
It could take years for the US to supply Europe with nartural gas. It doesn't have the facilities to rapidly increase exports not to mention the sensitive issue of fracking.
I read the article. It is interesting, but it does not address the costs or volumes. It doesn't even address who will be recieving the gas.
Why send gas to Europe, when you can send it to Japan and not compete with pipelines? Even still how much gas do you think the floatilla can bring you?
According to the article you posted Germany consumed 1,201,000,000,000 cubic feet of gas in 2012. The largest tankers in the world, Q Max cost half a billion dollars and can hold 9,400,000 cubic feet. If the Q max can make 26 round trips a year a single Q Max can move about 244,400,000 cubic feet. I know that is ambitious, probably not possible, but lets just say that you can load and unload a giant ship and cross the ocean and back in two weeks.
That means you would need about 4914 Q Max ships just to supply Germany.
Bye-bye South-Stream
(willi Pfaff, 27 March 2014 18:17)
--
Keep dreaming willi. When you have a cartel, prices are manipulated. Do you think they are really going to spend the trillions needed to get the infrastructure built when they risk Russia slashing prices to make it not viable? Seriously, it is going to be as successful as Nabucco. LOL! Lots of talk but nothing in the end!
Stephen Harper is going to send you enough gas to shut down the south stream! Stephen Harper is Obama's angry butler. He used to work for Bush, but Obama keeps him around. The only natural gas he has to sell to Europe comes out of both ends of him.
Bye-bye South-Stream
(willi Pfaff, 27 March 2014 18:17)
Hey genius, do you realize that now that Crimea is Russian, the capital cost of the South Stream project has been reduced by $5 Billion dollars? Yep, the Black Sea portion of the pipeline just got a lot shorter :) . Also, the way the neo-nazis in Ukraine are going, they are going to lose Odessa too, which will knock a few more billion off the capital cost :). South Stream is getting more and more profitable by the day :).
Where are they going to get continuous supplies from? are you going to eat more baked beans and bottle all the gas you produce? All this crap about getting cheaper US gas is just that, gas and lots of it. Russia can live without Europe as it can sell all it produces to Asia; you know the only growing economies in the world.
I’ve got some very sad news for you. If South stream is no longer need then there are several western Corporations that are going to be out of pocket big time because Gazprom only hold a small part in the pipeline and if you think they will allow their investments to go down the drain, then think again LOL, LOL.
Perhaps you might ask what the banks said to the US Government when requested to stop Visa and MasterCard in Russia. It was on US TV, and it was a humiliating experience when the bankers told the US government NO, this is business and not politics LOL.
Bye bye Willi.
We've seen this scenario before a few years ago when Ukraine balked at paying Russian rent for its pipelines, Russia shut off the gas, and about two weeks later cold Germans told Kiev to remember its place. Obama can threaten with as many Cold War scenarios as he wants, but Germany is not about to jeopardize economic relations with one of its closest trading partners.
(Balkan Anthropologist, 27 March 2014 13:55)
Don't know what you are talking about, but Germany never had people without heat in the winter and therefor never had to tell the Ukrain to remember their place.
But you all are wrong here, Germany already started to move away from its dependance on russian gas and oil, along with the entire EU. Latest in 3 to 4 years maybe about 10% of the energy supplies of western Europe will come from Russiaand the rest from sources in the US or north Africa. The technical means to start bringing gas from the US to Europe are there, and because this gas is so much cheaper than russian gas it will cost about the same after adding transport costs.
The looser in this scenario is Serbia and Russia, because "South Stream" no longer will be needed.
Europe will get Natural Gas from the US in a few years, will happen in a few years.
(willi Pfaff, 27 March 2014 16:47)
The article you gave rests on future predictions and "hope". While that's happening, Russia is "supplying" You want to bank on uncertainties "in a few years" to make an argument, be my guest, because "in a few years" all of this will be forgotten, Crimea will be another unfortunate fait accompli, and business will be as usual. Much like it's going to remain now.
"Bye-bye South-Stream"
You might want to check your geography. I mean you've proven to be largely clueless on Serbian socio-political development but I can't believe you honestly think German economic independence from Russia suddenly nullifies the South Stream project which involves Turkey, Bulgaria, Serbia, Bosnia (via RS), Croatia, Slovenia, and Austria. That has nothing to do with Germany, which might I add is enjoying cheap gas via North Stream.
How's that Nabucco pipe dream going?
By the way, Americans have been calling and pushing for oil dependency from the Middle East since the OPEC Crisis and they're still buddy-buddy with Saudi Arabia. If they ever do decide to consume their own energy and turn Alaska into an oil refinery, you think what they sell an entire continent is going to satisfy your energy consumption?
Danilo, if you are thinking that the pipeline would go through Romania, that is very doubtful. First, Romania is not very reliable, too much of a NATO puppet, and will be even less reliable when half of Moldova votes to join Russia. Russia knows very well that Bulgaria and Serbia are far more reliable partners. Besides, the agreement with Serbia is signed, and if south stream does not go ahead then Serbia gets NIS back.
Serbia is at the center of the customer base and will be a major storage hub. Serbia can run lines south to Pristina and Macedonia east into Romania, south west into Bosnia and Montenegro, North west into Croatia and Hungary.
Serbia is central to the south stream. anything going east to west will pass through it.
just read this article from the New York times, dated March 5th, and maybe you will understand that the US already is the biggest worldwide producer of natural gas and that exactly what I said, Europe will get Natural Gas from the US in a few years, will happen in a few years.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/06/world/europe/us-seeks-to-reduce-ukraines-reliance-on-russia-for-natural-gas.html?_r=0
and to remind you that this is already agreed on read the followinghttp://www.euronews.com/2014/03/26/obama-us-can-help-europe-reduce-russian-gas-imports/
if you still don't believe me, read todays top news from Spiegel-online. Merkel announced, that the entire German energy policy will be changed and energy imports from Russia drasticly reduced. Steven Harper, the Canadien Prime Minister visted Berlin today, and he also offered that Canada is more than willing to provide natural gas and oil to Europe in order to help reduce imports from Russia. Bye-bye South-Stream
http://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/soziales/krim-krise-merkel-stellt-bisherige-energiepolitik-infrage-a-961144.html
We've seen this scenario before a few years ago when Ukraine balked at paying Russian rent for its pipelines, Russia shut off the gas, and about two weeks later cold Germans told Kiev to remember its place. Obama can threaten with as many Cold War scenarios as he wants, but Germany is not about to jeopardize economic relations with one of its closest trading partners.
(Balkan Anthropologist, 27 March 2014 13:55)
Don't know what you are talking about, but Germany never had people without heat in the winter and therefor never had to tell the Ukrain to remember their place.
But you all are wrong here, Germany already started to move away from its dependance on russian gas and oil, along with the entire EU. Latest in 3 to 4 years maybe about 10% of the energy supplies of western Europe will come from Russiaand the rest from sources in the US or north Africa. The technical means to start bringing gas from the US to Europe are there, and because this gas is so much cheaper than russian gas it will cost about the same after adding transport costs.
The looser in this scenario is Serbia and Russia, because "South Stream" no longer will be needed.
just read this article from the New York times, dated March 5th, and maybe you will understand that the US already is the biggest worldwide producer of natural gas and that exactly what I said, Europe will get Natural Gas from the US in a few years, will happen in a few years.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/06/world/europe/us-seeks-to-reduce-ukraines-reliance-on-russia-for-natural-gas.html?_r=0
and to remind you that this is already agreed on read the followinghttp://www.euronews.com/2014/03/26/obama-us-can-help-europe-reduce-russian-gas-imports/
if you still don't believe me, read todays top news from Spiegel-online. Merkel announced, that the entire German energy policy will be changed and energy imports from Russia drasticly reduced. Steven Harper, the Canadien Prime Minister visted Berlin today, and he also offered that Canada is more than willing to provide natural gas and oil to Europe in order to help reduce imports from Russia. Bye-bye South-Stream
http://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/soziales/krim-krise-merkel-stellt-bisherige-energiepolitik-infrage-a-961144.html
German-Russian trade exchange in 2013 reached EUR 76 billion, about 6,000 German companies are doing business in Russia, the total volume of their investments is EUR 20 billion, and 300,000 jobs in Germany depends on economic relations between the two countries, the news agency reported.
Posturing apart Merkel knows Some eastern EU countries are wholly dependent on Russian energy and even Germany cannot find alternatives to its own Russian gas needs to avoid economic disruption.Economic trouble in one part of the EU, including Germany, would set off a chain reaction across it which would spare no one as the euro crisis showed.The EU sells 370 billion euros of goods to Russia each year. The EU is massively dependant of Russian gas.Any sanctions to appease the US neocons could cause really severe damage to the EU economy.Crimea is such an affront, that Germany will continue to sell Russia lots of Mercedes and things and buy 40% of its gas from Russia thus protecting its Mercantilist economy.However,I do think the US neocons are not interested about the EU economies and they will press for severing its economic ties with Russia.Such a move will force Russia to expand its energy ties with China who is the process of replacing its coal-fired power stations with gas-fired ones.Such a switch will require massive quantities of gas supplies.But the ultimate weapon in the hands of Russia and China will be the dropping of the US $ as a reserve currency and timing is the essence.
You are both exactly right. Putin is about to sign a massive energy deal with China in fact.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-03-21/petrodollar-alert-isolated-west-putin-prepares-announce-holy-grail-gas-deal-china
The BRICS are in fact standing with Russia, and are completely against any sanctions and are blocking the expulsion of Russia from the G20. I get a real kick out of watching the warmongering neocons and the ignorant mainstream media say the US are going to send their gas to Europe to replace Russian supplies. Only a complete idiot can even say this. It shows the level of ignorance and stupidity of these people, to think that sending gas via ship across the ocean to Europe is going to be cheaper than through a pipeline from Russia! I look forward to seeing Ukranian citizen's reaction when their gas bill jumps by 40% shortly.
Cheers!!
Where are they going to get continuous supplies from? are you going to eat more baked beans and bottle all the gas you produce? All this crap about getting cheaper US gas is just that, gas and lots of it. Russia can live without Europe as it can sell all it produces to Asia; you know the only growing economies in the world.
I’ve got some very sad news for you. If South stream is no longer need then there are several western Corporations that are going to be out of pocket big time because Gazprom only hold a small part in the pipeline and if you think they will allow their investments to go down the drain, then think again LOL, LOL.
Perhaps you might ask what the banks said to the US Government when requested to stop Visa and MasterCard in Russia. It was on US TV, and it was a humiliating experience when the bankers told the US government NO, this is business and not politics LOL.
Bye bye Willi.
We've seen this scenario before a few years ago when Ukraine balked at paying Russian rent for its pipelines, Russia shut off the gas, and about two weeks later cold Germans told Kiev to remember its place. Obama can threaten with as many Cold War scenarios as he wants, but Germany is not about to jeopardize economic relations with one of its closest trading partners.
BTW, I stand corrected. The UK has in fact had its say. Last night Clegg and Farage had a national debate on TV and Farage won convincingly. This was shown by polls taken afterwards and Farage in the past has spoken well for our cause.
Now Clegg is shocked that Farage is supporting Putin and comments on the BBC have shown that the public overwhelmingly support Farage. Check -> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-26761258
A comment sample:
The comment below is rated -49 (yes, minus)
35.
Gezza
I am disgusted with Farage at his view of the EU regarding Ukraine and the actions of Putin.
The comment below is rated +163 (yes, plus)
14.
British Imperial
I imagine Clegg was shocked by Farage siding with Putin. Imagine, a politician using their own brain, coming to the right conclusion and defying what they were told to do, say or feel by the Americans. There hasn't been a Uk politician in 30 years that has done that. Might not always agree with Farage but on that he is spot on.
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My friends, this is repeated over and over.
Bye-bye South-Stream
(willi Pfaff, 27 March 2014 18:17)
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Keep dreaming willi. When you have a cartel, prices are manipulated. Do you think they are really going to spend the trillions needed to get the infrastructure built when they risk Russia slashing prices to make it not viable? Seriously, it is going to be as successful as Nabucco. LOL! Lots of talk but nothing in the end!
Bye-bye South-Stream
(willi Pfaff, 27 March 2014 18:17)
Hey genius, do you realize that now that Crimea is Russian, the capital cost of the South Stream project has been reduced by $5 Billion dollars? Yep, the Black Sea portion of the pipeline just got a lot shorter :) . Also, the way the neo-nazis in Ukraine are going, they are going to lose Odessa too, which will knock a few more billion off the capital cost :). South Stream is getting more and more profitable by the day :).
I look forward to seeing Ukranian citizen's reaction when their gas bill jumps by 40% shortly.
Cheers!!
(Dragan, 27 March 2014 13:13)
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Dragane, it is jumping 50% my friend so Ukraine can afford the IMF loan. So Russia offers cheaper gas and funds to help Ukraine and those idiots in Kiev will now get a 50% increase to pay the IMF. Check -> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-26764262
quote "A cut in energy subsidies to consumers has been one of the conditions of an international rescue deal and on Wednesday Ukraine's interim government agreed to raise domestic gas prices by 50% in its effort to secure the IMF aid package."
Willi
How is the gas from the US going to get to Europe, and what makes you think the US sells its energy cheap?
The answer is a flotilla of ships that can hold pressurized LPG will have to be commisioned and insured. They will have to cross the ocean and be unloaded at major european ports and return to the US completely empty. In order to assure a steady flow, major holding faciilities will have to be built to store the gas next to the ports and connected to pipelines. As Germany shuts down its nuclear power generation, even more ships will have to be commisioned in order to make trips to europe and come back empty. Think of how much it costs for a ship to travel accross the ocean empty. Think of the vapour danger when it returns to port. Think of the economic and environmental costs of evacuating the vapour while refilling.
No one is suggesting that this idea is economically viable or in any way helpful. What would be the point of it? To spite Russia?
How would Russia react? They would pump more of their gas east to China via pipeline. By 2018 Russia will supply a quarter of China's gas needs. Natural Gas is not something they will have any difficulty selling.
Don't know what you are talking about, but Germany never had people without heat in the winter and therefor never had to tell the Ukrain to remember their place.
(willi Pfaff, 27 March 2014 14:20)
Maybe not so much a heat problem, but Germany certainly got involved.
The looser in this scenario is Serbia and Russia, because "South Stream" no longer will be needed.
(willi Pfaff, 27 March 2014 14:20)
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Keep dreaming willi. When gas prices sky rocket, increasing energy costs overall, you will see people all over Europe on the streets protesting. Go ahead and test Russia, the German economy will be flat on its face.
Best that you just accept having blood on your hands regarding Ukraine and back off. Now those poor Ukranians have 50% more expensive gas just to get an IMF loan whereas Russia was offering cheaper gas with their bailout package.
And lets not forget, the US has just stolen all of Ukraine's gold reserves. You guys are a bunch of thieves!!
Sorry Willi, it is you who does not understand. Talk to Angela before you post your useless dribble.
It could take years for the US to supply Europe with nartural gas. It doesn't have the facilities to rapidly increase exports not to mention the sensitive issue of fracking.
I read the article. It is interesting, but it does not address the costs or volumes. It doesn't even address who will be recieving the gas.
Why send gas to Europe, when you can send it to Japan and not compete with pipelines? Even still how much gas do you think the floatilla can bring you?
According to the article you posted Germany consumed 1,201,000,000,000 cubic feet of gas in 2012. The largest tankers in the world, Q Max cost half a billion dollars and can hold 9,400,000 cubic feet. If the Q max can make 26 round trips a year a single Q Max can move about 244,400,000 cubic feet. I know that is ambitious, probably not possible, but lets just say that you can load and unload a giant ship and cross the ocean and back in two weeks.
That means you would need about 4914 Q Max ships just to supply Germany.
Europe will get Natural Gas from the US in a few years, will happen in a few years.
(willi Pfaff, 27 March 2014 16:47)
The article you gave rests on future predictions and "hope". While that's happening, Russia is "supplying" You want to bank on uncertainties "in a few years" to make an argument, be my guest, because "in a few years" all of this will be forgotten, Crimea will be another unfortunate fait accompli, and business will be as usual. Much like it's going to remain now.
"Bye-bye South-Stream"
You might want to check your geography. I mean you've proven to be largely clueless on Serbian socio-political development but I can't believe you honestly think German economic independence from Russia suddenly nullifies the South Stream project which involves Turkey, Bulgaria, Serbia, Bosnia (via RS), Croatia, Slovenia, and Austria. That has nothing to do with Germany, which might I add is enjoying cheap gas via North Stream.
How's that Nabucco pipe dream going?
By the way, Americans have been calling and pushing for oil dependency from the Middle East since the OPEC Crisis and they're still buddy-buddy with Saudi Arabia. If they ever do decide to consume their own energy and turn Alaska into an oil refinery, you think what they sell an entire continent is going to satisfy your energy consumption?
Serbia is at the center of the customer base and will be a major storage hub. Serbia can run lines south to Pristina and Macedonia east into Romania, south west into Bosnia and Montenegro, North west into Croatia and Hungary.
Serbia is central to the south stream. anything going east to west will pass through it.
Stephen Harper is going to send you enough gas to shut down the south stream! Stephen Harper is Obama's angry butler. He used to work for Bush, but Obama keeps him around. The only natural gas he has to sell to Europe comes out of both ends of him.
Danilo, if you are thinking that the pipeline would go through Romania, that is very doubtful. First, Romania is not very reliable, too much of a NATO puppet, and will be even less reliable when half of Moldova votes to join Russia. Russia knows very well that Bulgaria and Serbia are far more reliable partners. Besides, the agreement with Serbia is signed, and if south stream does not go ahead then Serbia gets NIS back.
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