At least 25 dead as clashes continue in Kiev

Does the evil West pay these protesters to die as well sj? What are the going rates for that?
(Nikolle, 19 February 2014 10:19)

Michael Thomas has answered your question and I will only add this comment.
The Russians offer Ukraine 150 billion Euros in aid and low interest loans plus very cheap oil and gas. The EU/US offers only more hot air about freedom and democracy and how happy Ukraine will be once in the EU and nothing else.
Why would anyone demonstrate when you are getting what you need????
In 1994 I was in Serbia and saw how it was done. There were “agents” who walking around Kragujevac asking people if they would go to protest against Milosevic. If interested, you would be transported there and back, fed and given money.
I was curious and went to one of those demonstrations. We were bused to Belgrade and arrived at 10am, there met by “minders” who made sure we performed our part, then at about 1pm after the demos were over we were given lunch and put on buses and when we reached our destination given 20 Euros as we got off the bus.
This was the time when Vuk Draskovic was handing out bread to the “starving masses” which in actual fact was only had about 150 people there, but the western media made it look as if it was all of Serbia waiting for the bread.

The EU drives young innocent people into a frenzy over promised riches, then drives those same people into a frenzy when it takes them away.

Does the evil West pay these protesters to die as well sj? What are the going rates for that?
(Nikolle, 19 February 2014 10:19)


It is unlikely that those who get killed are those who are responsible for the troubles. The Ukrainian traitors who are financed and organised by the NATO powers keep well back from the flames they are fanning.

The Ukrainian authorities should immediately expel all foreigners who work for NGOs and seize the assets of those NGOs. Foreign “businessmen” based in the Ukraine should be given 24 hours to leave the country. Many of these “businessmen” are Agent provocateurs. Ukrainian members of the foreign-financed “revolution” should be rounded-up and interned. The state has the power to put down this attempted putsch. It would seem, however, that Yanukovych is too close to the Israeli-based “Ukrainian” oligarchs, and they have tied his hands. If Yanukovych can’t act, then Russia should send in its army and restore order.

The exact same thing would've happened in the NYC demonstrations several years ago had the protesters shot weapons at the police.

Peter Sudyka

The Ukraine was impoverished when the Soviet Union fell. Rothchild and friends raped the Soviet Union and now hold the Ukraine and other ex-Soviet republics under their cruel and greedy control.

All the former-Soviet Republics should reject the theft of the 1990s (the BBC calls this theft ’privatisation’) and return all assets to the public domain. The billions stashed abroad by the oligarchs is lost, but the Ukraine would have a brighter future if it told the theiving oligarchs to go to hell. It is interesting how posters on this site talk of ’corrupt’ policians but fail to mention the mega-theives who created the crisis in the first place.

@ nikolle only you albanians dont see that the west isn't involved in Ukraine.

"In 1994 I was in Serbia and saw how it was done. There were “agents” who walking around Kragujevac asking people if they would go to protest against Milosevic. If interested, you would be transported there and back, fed and given money.
I was curious and went to one of those demonstrations. We were bused to Belgrade and arrived at 10am, there met by “minders” who made sure we performed our part, then at about 1pm after the demos were over we were given lunch and put on buses and when we reached our destination given 20 Euros as we got off the bus. "

you were given Euros in 1994? please sj, if you're going to lie, at least make it believable. there were no Euro's in 1994

Ian

Brutal maybe bu honest.Your contribution to the debate is irony and sarcasm-both traits of ignorance.Since your knowledge on current affairs iis pittyfull just do the decent thing and abstain.

When it comes to bs Ian is the master of them all.One just wonders whetherr this guy has been to school.

sj was given €20 by 'agents' in 1994? lol

Well, I was given an iPhone and a PS4 by 'agents' to protest against Thatcher and her closure of pits in the 1984 miner's strike. Jealous sj?

Peter

Good Eurosceptic comment. But you must also be aware that in current condition Ukraine has zero value. The only thing the West is interested here in is Russia and only Russia. Whatever common people in Europe think almost 100% of the Russians take the events like a prelude for the inevitable attack on us. Morally we are ready and recent strikes at the local comprador mass media show that we get ready for the war. I hope only a propaganda war …

Also you must be aware that Ukraine is the idea fix of Mr. Putin. So the visible passiveness Russia demonstrates is to be stopped soon after the Games are over. March 18 is the last day of the Paralympics. I guess before that everybody will have to be unmasked and the battlefield clearly seen. Right now the puppet Maidan opposition is openly conferring the European ambassadors. It stopped to be a violation of the Diplomatic Convention. Yesterday Canada showed lack of western solidarity so their embassy was immediately robbed and burned up.

You Poles know it better than other Europeans what Benderasts means. Stefan Bendera is the real leader of Maidan with hundreds of his portraits all over the place. But those are soldiers while the 3 formal Hauptmans must only deliver commands. This Monday they met their Frau General and the next day they organized the riot. Guess who gave the command ? No it was Obama. Though the idea of DRANG HACH OST belongs to Friedrich Barbarossa. You know tradition is the German way.

Michael Thomas

I am 100% on the same page as you when it comes to Western meddling and how using "privatization", they left the entire state's wealth in the hands of a small handful of crooks. Poland was no different and we are still feeling the effects of it 30 years later.

Under a new government in the Ukraine, the oil giants should indeed be nationalized as the oligarchs have indeed far too much influence and can be said to be holding a whole nation hostage.

When it comes to bs Ian is the master of them all.One just wonders whetherr this guy has been to school.
(Gotsefromohrid, 19 February 2014 15:44)

How long did it take for you to come up with that brutal comment? LOL!

Does the evil West pay these protesters to die as well sj? What are the going rates for that?

sj

150 billion euros? It's actually 15 billion dollars and I fail to see the corrupt crooks in charge even utilizing such a small amount to the country's benefit, certainly not the average Ukrainian. Cheap oil and gas will lessen peoples' energy costs in the winter, but the quality and standard of living in Ukraine will not change thanks to this "generosity" from Russia, nor will corruption fall.

What Ukraine needs is a total makeover. EU membership certainly won't fix this either, but certainly a total overhaul in government, judiciary, legislation (and enforcement thereof), acceleration of economic growth/living standards (I mean, come on, they don't even have 400 billion dollars GDP PPP, which for a country of around 45 million, puts them alongside prosperous nations, like Namibia, El Salvador, Algeria and Iraq with less than $7,500 per capita PPP), combating corruption and the means to be economically as independent as possible - especially from Russia or EU throwing some loose change at them as "aid" and offering future membership of their bloc/cheaper gas and oil respectively - is what the Ukraine needs today.

People really need to stop looking at the Ukraine in terms of EU and/or Russian interests, but what is troubling the Ukrainians that they will not just go home and accept their fate. Why does Europe always have to be divided into blocs in people's minds? Do you think the average Ukrainian cares?

Michael Thomas

The protesters are not financed by NATO to destabilize the country. You obviously are not familiar with the standard of living in the Ukraine. These people are simply tired of living in a corrupt and poor country that holds no future for them or their children.

Ukraine's earnings and pensions are lower than most Balkan countries, their corruption is through the roof (my cousin once had to pay a bribe to an ambulance to be taken to hospital there with a broken ankle) and under Yanukovich, this simply will not change and the people can see this!

All they want is to live in a normal, stable country that holds a future for them. This they do not have and will not have under the current government, so they want to change it. Simple. This should have nothing whatsoever to do with NATO, USA, EU or Russia, but with Ukraine itself.

And Russia should stay the hell out of Ukraine with their army. Ukraine is a sovereign nation and Russia has no right to dictate terms with a sovereign nation's internal issues. Historical links are no cause of forced unity into Russia if the people of the Ukraine do not want it, and they don't, perhaps with the exception of Crimea.

To conclude, this is a great tragedy for those families, who lost loved ones in these protests. I spoke to a Ukrainian lady, who works with me and despite being a truly good and gentle soul, she is wishing a Ceaucescu-style ending to this whole mess. Just one example of how some Ukrainians feel.

you're deviating from my question sj. does the West pay these protesters to get shot and killed as well?

funny thing about your story, SJ, is that you were given 20 euros 8 years before the Euro came into circulation.

(Gotsefromohrid, 19 February 2014 17:21)

You're a Spaz from Macedonia, so don't you talk to me about Education or Ignorance; your education resembles that of a 3rd world African education taught in a mud hut.

Ukraine is economically in a really bad way. There is no bright future in sight & Ukrainians know this. Russia doesn't care what is good for Ukraine or Ukrainians. All Russia wants is for Ukraine to be under their sphere of control. Russia currently has a lot of control in Ukraine since their puppet Viktor Yanukovych was installed in power. Everything he does is to benefit Russia and not Ukraine. Russia is making out it is helping Ukraine, but it isn't. The so called 'aid' aka loose change which Russia is giving Ukraine (45 Million people), is less than what Facebook have bought Whatsapp for yesterday. These cheap loans which Russia is offering will not fix any of Ukraine's problems, they'll just make Ukraine dependent & in debt to Russia, therefore remaining in Russia's sphere of control & the Ukrainian people know this. Further to this, Moscow's puppet is doing everything he can to turn Ukraine into a Police State & to suppress civil liberties; now people are paying with their lives as Yanukovych desperately tries to hang onto power.

Instead of listening to what the people of Ukraine want, Yanukovych & Russia are blaming the West for the consequences of Yanukovych's decisions. If it weren't so serious and people weren't dying, it'd be a bad joke.

@Michael Thomas

excuse me, i have read here, that the West is paying 'protesters' $30 a head to go out and protest. i was just wondering if death meant their rates go higher. ps. by foreign NGO's do you mean Russian agents too?

This was the time when Vuk Draskovic was handing out bread to the “starving masses” which in actual fact was only had about 150 people there, but the western media made it look as if it was all of Serbia waiting for the bread.
(sj, 19 February 2014 12:52)

How many Euros were these 150 people paid? Or were they paid in South Sudanese pounds instead? LOL!

The best are indeed sanctions with unlimited humanitarian, merciful and democratic bombing of Kiev by Western aircraft. No sanctions without humanitarian bombs, please. Humanitarian and merciful Nazi, ooops, sorry, typo, I mean, Western bombs bring the democracy.

But there was European Currency Unit.
(Peggy, 19 February 2014 23:56)

There weren't euros you could hold in your hand - you know, the kind 'agents' would pay you getting off a bus - until 2002

(sj, 19 February 2014 23:43)

Yeah, you've been talking BS for the last 6 years, for example 20% unemployment in UK, 80% unemployment in Kosovo and my personal favourite; Chinese citizens don't need visas for Australia and British citizens do; the reason you know this, is because the parents of your Chinese mate living in Malaysia told you LOL. A quick look on the Aussie Got Dept of Foreign Affairs and Trade website tells you that this is a load of BS, just like being paid 20 euros in 1994 LOL!

How is the UK economy doing?

The UK economy must be doing bad because it rained, which in turn caused flooding. LOL

When in reality we have the fastest growing economy in the western world. Unemployment is now down to the per-economic crisis level, although youth unemployment remains high. The UK economy isn't brilliant, but it is promising and it doesn't resemble 'the end is nigh' picture you like to paint.

--------

But there was European Currency Unit.
(Peggy, 19 February 2014 23:56)

Is that the best you can come up with to defend that foolish compulsive liar? LOL

You're now suggesting that these 'agents' gave him European Currency Units which were numbers on a computer screen? LOL

I know only too well when Euros came into circulation. The payment was in dinars but I was only using Euros to save a lengthy explanation about converting money from one currency to another and B92 has a 1500 word limit.
I was well aware that people like you would pick up on this and it amuses me to no end – you guys are like flies to dung heap.
(sj, 19 February 2014 23:36)

Egg is still on your face sj.

If you really were paid by 'agents', why didn't you just say that you were paid a few dinars? The 1500 limit wouldn't have impacted that.

Also I don't see how a "lengthy explanation about converting money from one currency to another" is relevant when supposedly being paid a few dinars by 'agents'.

You're making up BS excuses and trying to change the subject to save yourself embarrassment, well the egg is still on your face and it is starting to smell like BS; which of course is your mother tongue.

I bet when you made up that BS story, you must have thought to yourself that your story sounds quite rationale and convincing; I bet you were rather proud of yourself. But your stupidity has let you down once again. Liars always make mistakes and have holes in their stories. You're a compulsive liar sj, eveyone knows this!

"You're a Spaz from Macedonia, so don't you talk to me about Education or Ignorance; your education resembles that of a 3rd world African education taught in a mud hut."
(Ian, UK, 20 February 2014 11:25)


Most people on this site will not understand Ian’s school playground English. The word “Spaz” is a childish abbreviation for “Spastik” which is an old-fashioned description of people who suffer from the debilitating illness, cerebral palsy.

There are commentators on this site with whom I very much disagree, but their contributions are often worth reading because they give an insight into the thinking of Croats, Albanians and Bosnian Moslems. Ian’s contributions are trite and of interest only to those who may want an insight into the psychological troubles of an unemployed English youth.

(Peter Sudyka, 19 February 2014 14:40)

Great comment!

But don't waste your time on sj. He actually believes the BS he posts on here. He is deluded, he lives in a little fantasy world that only exists in his mind.

There are commentators on this site with whom I very much disagree, but their contributions are often worth reading because they give an insight into the thinking of Croats, Albanians and Bosnian Moslems. Ian’s contributions are trite and of interest only to those who may want an insight into the psychological troubles of an unemployed English youth.
(Michael Thomas, 20 February 2014 14:54)

You're a divorced 36 year old former factory worker and a current security guard from Trowbridge in Wiltshire; you're pretty much at rock bottom.

I have a much better job than you!

I use B92 because of Ian_UK. his contribution to this site is great and you know it. He is funny, informative and his English writing skills are excellent!! Pro European, Pro NATO, not a monarchist!!! These characteristics are the hallmarks of a great man regardless of his young age or employment status.
(pemi, Ian's dad 21 February 2014 02:14)

there is no doubt in my mind sj that you sincerely believe the nonsense that you write. there is no shred of doubt in my mind that you seriously believe people are being paid $30 in Ukraine per person to go out and protest (do they get receipts after?). there is also no doubt in my mind that you actually believe you were paid to protest against Sloba in 1994 and were remunerated for it (so paid in Euro's was a Freudian slip?). there is also no doubt in my mind that you are suffering delusions and potentially FPP (Fantasy prone personality). rather than me poking fun at you, i suggest you see a psychiatrist and get to grips with your condition

I said this site only allows 1500 words
--------

Seeing as your comment was only 1283 words, and that's without editing out the b92 quote text, your explanation makes no sense.

You could have just as easilly said "a few dinars/deutchmarks/dollars/dollars equivalent". No "detailed explanation" nessesary.

Plus, I don't believe your amount either. 20euros in a time when people's offical salaraies (in a time of devastating economic crisis) were around 20-40. They could have paid 1/4 that, and the real 'agents' probably were (10DM)

But don't waste your time on sj. He actually believes the BS he posts on here. He is deluded, he lives in a little fantasy world that only exists in his mind.
(Ian, UK, 19 February 2014 15:11)

Funny how I have been saying for the last 6 years that things were getting progressively worse in the US and EU and yet I have been howled down. How is the UK economy going? They say that these floods will really have an effect on your living standards, but then again it could all be in my mind. Enjoy!!!

This was the time when Vuk Draskovic was handing out bread to the “starving masses” which in actual fact was only had about 150 people there, but the western media made it look as if it was all of Serbia waiting for the bread.
(sj, 19 February 2014 12:52)

Well, according to http://www.b92.net/eng/news/society.php?yyyy=2011&mm=11&dd=16&nav_id=77350 it's more like 150 thousand. Also check http://www.b92.net/eng/news/society.php?yyyy=2012&mm=07&dd=21&nav_id=81391 and http://www.b92.net/eng/news/society.php?yyyy=2012&mm=11&dd=20&nav_id=83245

Of course the main party responsible is Putin - I guess it was so obvious no one bothered to mention his bloody hand... But I do agree with one point - the West has become involved, no question. once your're involved, you're in it for the long haul. if they choose to murder ppl in the streets, all barriers and sanctions immeditately placed in effect, targeted. no playing around with these folks, no closing our eyes and hope it all works out. like in Bosnia?!
Roberto frisco

150 billion sj LOL KGB Putin was willing to give 15 billion from the robed poor Russian peasants. He just gave 3 billion of it and told the corrupt Ukrainian politicans to crak down on the anti Russian demostraters. If they want to see the rest of 12 billion in their pockets. Yanukovych is corupt as they come he is building him self a palace has a golf course and a luxrious house boat all on a small Ukrainian president salary. A reporter Tatyana Chornovil http://inserbia.info/news/2013/12/ukrainian-journalist-beaten-and-thrown-into-a-ditch/ was doing a expose. On wear he got the money to build him self a palace the toys and the incredible cost of it all. Also his crony ministers with their resently miracoulesy gotten goods and wealth. One day as she was driving was run off the road taken out of the car by Yanukovych thugs beaten severly ,thrown in to a dich left for dead. The idiots did not know she had a camera mounted on the dash recorted the cowards crime and them. Luckely she survived the mafia goverment hench men but in very serious condition. Ian how are the British parlimenterian Lords doing aka biggest welfare bums on the tax payers dols. Having their castels ,manors ,mots etc fixed cleaned money apropriated aka stolen at the tax payers expence. Are they putting up a fight of not returning the money using the excuse? If the Queen can do it and her leach family members live off the tax payers expence members why cant they.

Janukovic will end on the garbage of human history, along with Assad. Freedom to Ukraina and Syria!

(Gotsefromohrid, 19 February 2014 17:21)

Ha ha. It's funny, Goatse, how many slavic folks are unable to detect sarcasm :)

ou're deviating from my question sj. does the West pay these protesters to get shot and killed as well?
(Nikolle, 19 February 2014 13:48)
What a stupid question – which should not surprise me at all coming from you. How would I know who was killed? There are enough idiots in society that can be harnessed to do dirty work for nothing by people paid to organise dissent.
Why would these people demonstrate? What? Because the EU brings freedom and democracy???? Get real.
Why don’t your Albanians in Kosovo demonstrate against the appalling living conditions???? They are worse off than Ukraine. Hmmm???? I’m interested to know why don’t they do the same as in Ukraine????

unny thing about your story, SJ, is that you were given 20 euros 8 years before the Euro came into circulation.
(Danilo, 19 February 2014 13:56)

I know only too well when Euros came into circulation. The payment was in dinars but I was only using Euros to save a lengthy explanation about converting money from one currency to another and B92 has a 1500 word limit.
I was well aware that people like you would pick up on this and it amuses me to no end – you guys are like flies to dung heap.

(Peter Sudyka, 19 February 2014 14:40)
Let’s not quibble over the amounts on offer. What is the EU offering?
For the last 20 years nothing.

you were given Euros in 1994? please sj, if you're going to lie, at least make it believable. there were no Euro's in 1994
(Nikolle, 19 February 2014 13:50)
=============================
But there was European Currency Unit.

SJ,

I dunno. You mention some very specific details -10am arrival - 1pm departure. Seems like a strange detail to fudge.

Most people telling stories from that time index the prices in their stories in Deutchmarks. Plus, 1994 was a time of hyperinflation. By the time the story started and finished, your money would be worth half as much. I don't believe "agents" would be trying entice people with dinars, but with foreign currency. After all, isn't what these people were paid in, allegedly?

Your story doesn't make sense.

Not to say that I don't believe stuff like that happened. I just don't believe it happened to you.

Well, according to [link] it's more like 150 thousand. Also check [link] and [link]
(icj1, 20 February 2014 05:12)

Well my little Albanian genius I can show you people on the bread line in the US, so what’s your point again?????.

(Ian, UK, 20 February 2014 11:57)
The Albanian celt at his best. The „Aussie Got Dept of Foreign Affairs and Trade“ tells you all that you want to know eh? Did they also tell you that the property boom in Sydney and Melbourne is due to many Chinese buying to live while they move back and forth to China??? I have a friend that lives in the Sydney suburb of Eastwood and he has a Chinese neighbour that recently purchased the house next to him and the parents of that neighbour were out here for 3 months with no visa. Not everthying is published on the net.
Chinese are the biggest investors in Australia – there are 350 million middle class Chinese and all are cashed up. Considering that they will not overstay their visas why wouldn’t you let them fly in visa free???
You’re like that guy who asked me for proof of people being paid because he Googled it and no response. Was any of Wiki leaks or Snowden material on the net before being leaked????
On unemployment, it’s evident that you have rarely moved around in the UK civil service so there is no point except to say that officially Australia has about 5.7% unemployment while in fact its more like 13% - it’s called cooking the books.
They all talk about economies that “are the fastest growing in the world” – its crap.
The floods will have an effect on your economy.

(Ian, UK, 20 February 2014 12:18)

Give it a rest lad. If I was going to tell you a lie I would have picked somethig better thn the 20 Euro story. However, I am intersted to hear how Kosovo has managed to have only 45% unemployment consdiering there is no industry to speak of?

This was the time when Vuk Draskovic was handing out bread to the “starving masses” which in actual fact was only had about 150 people there, but the western media made it look as if it was all of Serbia waiting for the bread.
(sj, 19 February 2014 12:52)

Well, according to [link] it's more like 150 thousand. Also check [link] and [link]
(icj1, 20 February 2014 05:12)

Well my little Albanian genius I can show you people on the bread line in the US, so what’s your point again?????.
(sj, 20 February 2014 12:23)

I'm sure you can show that and probably even a bread line on the Moon... Unfortunately, regardless of what you show about the Moon or the US, those 150 thousand in Serbia still remain 150 thousand (not 150).... But I really admire your efforts to solve Serbia's problems using such innovative methods as showing bread lines in the US. Only a CE of B92 forums like you can achieve that.

And thanks for those adjectives, btw, but unfortunately I'm neither :)

P.S. CE = Chief Economist

I should think that with the upcoming destruction of Free Ukraine by the Chekist mafia gang, a few Serbs here might wonder if their pitiful pro-Russian prattle over the years at this site is just a little "pozorny"...or "predatelny"...

Ian’s contributions are trite and of interest only to those who may want an insight into the psychological troubles of an unemployed English youth.
(Michael Thomas, 20 February 2014 14:54)

Nonsense Micheal. I don't want to know what sick nationalists of Serbs, Albanians and Croats think! I know what they think. How to kill each other and take each others land.

I use B92 because of Ian_UK. his contribution to this site is great and you know it. He is funny, informative and his English writing skills are excellent!! Pro European, Pro NATO, not a monarchist!!! These characteristics are the hallmarks of a great man regardless of his young age or employment status.

Peggy

When Half-Term is over the halfwit, Ian, will go back to his school for the educationally subnormal and hopefully we will hear less from him.

(pemi, Ian's dad 21 February 2014 02:14)
(Peggy, 21 February 2014 12:34)

...__...

I would be very proud if I had a son like Ian_uk!!!

(Danilo, 20 February 2014 11:03)
I dont give a hoot if you dont believe me. I was there and I saw it happen – I was making a point that I was paid and as I said this site only allows 1500 words so giving a detailed explanation is impossible. If you think that people go out on mass to demonstrate for nothing in the middle of winter you have something wrong with you. Yes, there are fools who take up any cause and it becomes a religion to them, but numbers that stay on the streets for days dont happen spontainously.
Ask yourself, what are they demonstraing for? Becasue their government signed iwth Russia? Why would they care because at least your getting something while the EU has offered only promises of better times for 20 years and nothing has come of that.
I was asked by one person to show proof becasue they Googled $30 and not one response. Let me say this before Wkikleaks and Snowden how many could Google and find out all the material these people have put on the internet???? For those that still dont get it, intellegence angencies dont provide a list of their activites on the net and never will.

Why don’t your Albanians in Kosovo demonstrate against the appalling living conditions???? They are worse off than Ukraine. Hmmm???? I’m interested to know why don’t they do the same as in Ukraine????
(sj, 19 February 2014 23:19)

Because they are better off than Ukraine... Kosovo's GDP/capita (at PPP) is higher :)

Note: GDP/capita (at PPP) data has not been reviewed and approved by the CE of B92 forums sj

P.S. CE = Chief Economist

Does the evil West pay these protesters to die as well sj? What are the going rates for that?

@Michael Thomas

excuse me, i have read here, that the West is paying 'protesters' $30 a head to go out and protest. i was just wondering if death meant their rates go higher. ps. by foreign NGO's do you mean Russian agents too?

"In 1994 I was in Serbia and saw how it was done. There were “agents” who walking around Kragujevac asking people if they would go to protest against Milosevic. If interested, you would be transported there and back, fed and given money.
I was curious and went to one of those demonstrations. We were bused to Belgrade and arrived at 10am, there met by “minders” who made sure we performed our part, then at about 1pm after the demos were over we were given lunch and put on buses and when we reached our destination given 20 Euros as we got off the bus. "

you were given Euros in 1994? please sj, if you're going to lie, at least make it believable. there were no Euro's in 1994

This was the time when Vuk Draskovic was handing out bread to the “starving masses” which in actual fact was only had about 150 people there, but the western media made it look as if it was all of Serbia waiting for the bread.
(sj, 19 February 2014 12:52)

How many Euros were these 150 people paid? Or were they paid in South Sudanese pounds instead? LOL!

(Peter Sudyka, 19 February 2014 14:40)

Great comment!

But don't waste your time on sj. He actually believes the BS he posts on here. He is deluded, he lives in a little fantasy world that only exists in his mind.

funny thing about your story, SJ, is that you were given 20 euros 8 years before the Euro came into circulation.

sj was given €20 by 'agents' in 1994? lol

Well, I was given an iPhone and a PS4 by 'agents' to protest against Thatcher and her closure of pits in the 1984 miner's strike. Jealous sj?

you're deviating from my question sj. does the West pay these protesters to get shot and killed as well?

When it comes to bs Ian is the master of them all.One just wonders whetherr this guy has been to school.
(Gotsefromohrid, 19 February 2014 15:44)

How long did it take for you to come up with that brutal comment? LOL!

Michael Thomas

The protesters are not financed by NATO to destabilize the country. You obviously are not familiar with the standard of living in the Ukraine. These people are simply tired of living in a corrupt and poor country that holds no future for them or their children.

Ukraine's earnings and pensions are lower than most Balkan countries, their corruption is through the roof (my cousin once had to pay a bribe to an ambulance to be taken to hospital there with a broken ankle) and under Yanukovich, this simply will not change and the people can see this!

All they want is to live in a normal, stable country that holds a future for them. This they do not have and will not have under the current government, so they want to change it. Simple. This should have nothing whatsoever to do with NATO, USA, EU or Russia, but with Ukraine itself.

And Russia should stay the hell out of Ukraine with their army. Ukraine is a sovereign nation and Russia has no right to dictate terms with a sovereign nation's internal issues. Historical links are no cause of forced unity into Russia if the people of the Ukraine do not want it, and they don't, perhaps with the exception of Crimea.

To conclude, this is a great tragedy for those families, who lost loved ones in these protests. I spoke to a Ukrainian lady, who works with me and despite being a truly good and gentle soul, she is wishing a Ceaucescu-style ending to this whole mess. Just one example of how some Ukrainians feel.

Of course the main party responsible is Putin - I guess it was so obvious no one bothered to mention his bloody hand... But I do agree with one point - the West has become involved, no question. once your're involved, you're in it for the long haul. if they choose to murder ppl in the streets, all barriers and sanctions immeditately placed in effect, targeted. no playing around with these folks, no closing our eyes and hope it all works out. like in Bosnia?!
Roberto frisco

Does the evil West pay these protesters to die as well sj? What are the going rates for that?
(Nikolle, 19 February 2014 10:19)


It is unlikely that those who get killed are those who are responsible for the troubles. The Ukrainian traitors who are financed and organised by the NATO powers keep well back from the flames they are fanning.

The Ukrainian authorities should immediately expel all foreigners who work for NGOs and seize the assets of those NGOs. Foreign “businessmen” based in the Ukraine should be given 24 hours to leave the country. Many of these “businessmen” are Agent provocateurs. Ukrainian members of the foreign-financed “revolution” should be rounded-up and interned. The state has the power to put down this attempted putsch. It would seem, however, that Yanukovych is too close to the Israeli-based “Ukrainian” oligarchs, and they have tied his hands. If Yanukovych can’t act, then Russia should send in its army and restore order.

sj

150 billion euros? It's actually 15 billion dollars and I fail to see the corrupt crooks in charge even utilizing such a small amount to the country's benefit, certainly not the average Ukrainian. Cheap oil and gas will lessen peoples' energy costs in the winter, but the quality and standard of living in Ukraine will not change thanks to this "generosity" from Russia, nor will corruption fall.

What Ukraine needs is a total makeover. EU membership certainly won't fix this either, but certainly a total overhaul in government, judiciary, legislation (and enforcement thereof), acceleration of economic growth/living standards (I mean, come on, they don't even have 400 billion dollars GDP PPP, which for a country of around 45 million, puts them alongside prosperous nations, like Namibia, El Salvador, Algeria and Iraq with less than $7,500 per capita PPP), combating corruption and the means to be economically as independent as possible - especially from Russia or EU throwing some loose change at them as "aid" and offering future membership of their bloc/cheaper gas and oil respectively - is what the Ukraine needs today.

People really need to stop looking at the Ukraine in terms of EU and/or Russian interests, but what is troubling the Ukrainians that they will not just go home and accept their fate. Why does Europe always have to be divided into blocs in people's minds? Do you think the average Ukrainian cares?

150 billion sj LOL KGB Putin was willing to give 15 billion from the robed poor Russian peasants. He just gave 3 billion of it and told the corrupt Ukrainian politicans to crak down on the anti Russian demostraters. If they want to see the rest of 12 billion in their pockets. Yanukovych is corupt as they come he is building him self a palace has a golf course and a luxrious house boat all on a small Ukrainian president salary. A reporter Tatyana Chornovil http://inserbia.info/news/2013/12/ukrainian-journalist-beaten-and-thrown-into-a-ditch/ was doing a expose. On wear he got the money to build him self a palace the toys and the incredible cost of it all. Also his crony ministers with their resently miracoulesy gotten goods and wealth. One day as she was driving was run off the road taken out of the car by Yanukovych thugs beaten severly ,thrown in to a dich left for dead. The idiots did not know she had a camera mounted on the dash recorted the cowards crime and them. Luckely she survived the mafia goverment hench men but in very serious condition. Ian how are the British parlimenterian Lords doing aka biggest welfare bums on the tax payers dols. Having their castels ,manors ,mots etc fixed cleaned money apropriated aka stolen at the tax payers expence. Are they putting up a fight of not returning the money using the excuse? If the Queen can do it and her leach family members live off the tax payers expence members why cant they.

Does the evil West pay these protesters to die as well sj? What are the going rates for that?
(Nikolle, 19 February 2014 10:19)

Michael Thomas has answered your question and I will only add this comment.
The Russians offer Ukraine 150 billion Euros in aid and low interest loans plus very cheap oil and gas. The EU/US offers only more hot air about freedom and democracy and how happy Ukraine will be once in the EU and nothing else.
Why would anyone demonstrate when you are getting what you need????
In 1994 I was in Serbia and saw how it was done. There were “agents” who walking around Kragujevac asking people if they would go to protest against Milosevic. If interested, you would be transported there and back, fed and given money.
I was curious and went to one of those demonstrations. We were bused to Belgrade and arrived at 10am, there met by “minders” who made sure we performed our part, then at about 1pm after the demos were over we were given lunch and put on buses and when we reached our destination given 20 Euros as we got off the bus.
This was the time when Vuk Draskovic was handing out bread to the “starving masses” which in actual fact was only had about 150 people there, but the western media made it look as if it was all of Serbia waiting for the bread.

@ nikolle only you albanians dont see that the west isn't involved in Ukraine.

(Gotsefromohrid, 19 February 2014 17:21)

You're a Spaz from Macedonia, so don't you talk to me about Education or Ignorance; your education resembles that of a 3rd world African education taught in a mud hut.

Ukraine is economically in a really bad way. There is no bright future in sight & Ukrainians know this. Russia doesn't care what is good for Ukraine or Ukrainians. All Russia wants is for Ukraine to be under their sphere of control. Russia currently has a lot of control in Ukraine since their puppet Viktor Yanukovych was installed in power. Everything he does is to benefit Russia and not Ukraine. Russia is making out it is helping Ukraine, but it isn't. The so called 'aid' aka loose change which Russia is giving Ukraine (45 Million people), is less than what Facebook have bought Whatsapp for yesterday. These cheap loans which Russia is offering will not fix any of Ukraine's problems, they'll just make Ukraine dependent & in debt to Russia, therefore remaining in Russia's sphere of control & the Ukrainian people know this. Further to this, Moscow's puppet is doing everything he can to turn Ukraine into a Police State & to suppress civil liberties; now people are paying with their lives as Yanukovych desperately tries to hang onto power.

Instead of listening to what the people of Ukraine want, Yanukovych & Russia are blaming the West for the consequences of Yanukovych's decisions. If it weren't so serious and people weren't dying, it'd be a bad joke.

When it comes to bs Ian is the master of them all.One just wonders whetherr this guy has been to school.

(Danilo, 20 February 2014 11:03)
I dont give a hoot if you dont believe me. I was there and I saw it happen – I was making a point that I was paid and as I said this site only allows 1500 words so giving a detailed explanation is impossible. If you think that people go out on mass to demonstrate for nothing in the middle of winter you have something wrong with you. Yes, there are fools who take up any cause and it becomes a religion to them, but numbers that stay on the streets for days dont happen spontainously.
Ask yourself, what are they demonstraing for? Becasue their government signed iwth Russia? Why would they care because at least your getting something while the EU has offered only promises of better times for 20 years and nothing has come of that.
I was asked by one person to show proof becasue they Googled $30 and not one response. Let me say this before Wkikleaks and Snowden how many could Google and find out all the material these people have put on the internet???? For those that still dont get it, intellegence angencies dont provide a list of their activites on the net and never will.

There are commentators on this site with whom I very much disagree, but their contributions are often worth reading because they give an insight into the thinking of Croats, Albanians and Bosnian Moslems. Ian’s contributions are trite and of interest only to those who may want an insight into the psychological troubles of an unemployed English youth.
(Michael Thomas, 20 February 2014 14:54)

You're a divorced 36 year old former factory worker and a current security guard from Trowbridge in Wiltshire; you're pretty much at rock bottom.

I have a much better job than you!

Peter Sudyka

The Ukraine was impoverished when the Soviet Union fell. Rothchild and friends raped the Soviet Union and now hold the Ukraine and other ex-Soviet republics under their cruel and greedy control.

All the former-Soviet Republics should reject the theft of the 1990s (the BBC calls this theft ’privatisation’) and return all assets to the public domain. The billions stashed abroad by the oligarchs is lost, but the Ukraine would have a brighter future if it told the theiving oligarchs to go to hell. It is interesting how posters on this site talk of ’corrupt’ policians but fail to mention the mega-theives who created the crisis in the first place.

(Ian, UK, 20 February 2014 12:18)

Give it a rest lad. If I was going to tell you a lie I would have picked somethig better thn the 20 Euro story. However, I am intersted to hear how Kosovo has managed to have only 45% unemployment consdiering there is no industry to speak of?

The EU drives young innocent people into a frenzy over promised riches, then drives those same people into a frenzy when it takes them away.

Ian’s contributions are trite and of interest only to those who may want an insight into the psychological troubles of an unemployed English youth.
(Michael Thomas, 20 February 2014 14:54)

Nonsense Micheal. I don't want to know what sick nationalists of Serbs, Albanians and Croats think! I know what they think. How to kill each other and take each others land.

I use B92 because of Ian_UK. his contribution to this site is great and you know it. He is funny, informative and his English writing skills are excellent!! Pro European, Pro NATO, not a monarchist!!! These characteristics are the hallmarks of a great man regardless of his young age or employment status.

The exact same thing would've happened in the NYC demonstrations several years ago had the protesters shot weapons at the police.

Ian

Brutal maybe bu honest.Your contribution to the debate is irony and sarcasm-both traits of ignorance.Since your knowledge on current affairs iis pittyfull just do the decent thing and abstain.

Peter

Good Eurosceptic comment. But you must also be aware that in current condition Ukraine has zero value. The only thing the West is interested here in is Russia and only Russia. Whatever common people in Europe think almost 100% of the Russians take the events like a prelude for the inevitable attack on us. Morally we are ready and recent strikes at the local comprador mass media show that we get ready for the war. I hope only a propaganda war …

Also you must be aware that Ukraine is the idea fix of Mr. Putin. So the visible passiveness Russia demonstrates is to be stopped soon after the Games are over. March 18 is the last day of the Paralympics. I guess before that everybody will have to be unmasked and the battlefield clearly seen. Right now the puppet Maidan opposition is openly conferring the European ambassadors. It stopped to be a violation of the Diplomatic Convention. Yesterday Canada showed lack of western solidarity so their embassy was immediately robbed and burned up.

You Poles know it better than other Europeans what Benderasts means. Stefan Bendera is the real leader of Maidan with hundreds of his portraits all over the place. But those are soldiers while the 3 formal Hauptmans must only deliver commands. This Monday they met their Frau General and the next day they organized the riot. Guess who gave the command ? No it was Obama. Though the idea of DRANG HACH OST belongs to Friedrich Barbarossa. You know tradition is the German way.

Janukovic will end on the garbage of human history, along with Assad. Freedom to Ukraina and Syria!

ou're deviating from my question sj. does the West pay these protesters to get shot and killed as well?
(Nikolle, 19 February 2014 13:48)
What a stupid question – which should not surprise me at all coming from you. How would I know who was killed? There are enough idiots in society that can be harnessed to do dirty work for nothing by people paid to organise dissent.
Why would these people demonstrate? What? Because the EU brings freedom and democracy???? Get real.
Why don’t your Albanians in Kosovo demonstrate against the appalling living conditions???? They are worse off than Ukraine. Hmmm???? I’m interested to know why don’t they do the same as in Ukraine????

you were given Euros in 1994? please sj, if you're going to lie, at least make it believable. there were no Euro's in 1994
(Nikolle, 19 February 2014 13:50)
=============================
But there was European Currency Unit.

SJ,

I dunno. You mention some very specific details -10am arrival - 1pm departure. Seems like a strange detail to fudge.

Most people telling stories from that time index the prices in their stories in Deutchmarks. Plus, 1994 was a time of hyperinflation. By the time the story started and finished, your money would be worth half as much. I don't believe "agents" would be trying entice people with dinars, but with foreign currency. After all, isn't what these people were paid in, allegedly?

Your story doesn't make sense.

Not to say that I don't believe stuff like that happened. I just don't believe it happened to you.

Well, according to [link] it's more like 150 thousand. Also check [link] and [link]
(icj1, 20 February 2014 05:12)

Well my little Albanian genius I can show you people on the bread line in the US, so what’s your point again?????.

I said this site only allows 1500 words
--------

Seeing as your comment was only 1283 words, and that's without editing out the b92 quote text, your explanation makes no sense.

You could have just as easilly said "a few dinars/deutchmarks/dollars/dollars equivalent". No "detailed explanation" nessesary.

Plus, I don't believe your amount either. 20euros in a time when people's offical salaraies (in a time of devastating economic crisis) were around 20-40. They could have paid 1/4 that, and the real 'agents' probably were (10DM)

"You're a Spaz from Macedonia, so don't you talk to me about Education or Ignorance; your education resembles that of a 3rd world African education taught in a mud hut."
(Ian, UK, 20 February 2014 11:25)


Most people on this site will not understand Ian’s school playground English. The word “Spaz” is a childish abbreviation for “Spastik” which is an old-fashioned description of people who suffer from the debilitating illness, cerebral palsy.

There are commentators on this site with whom I very much disagree, but their contributions are often worth reading because they give an insight into the thinking of Croats, Albanians and Bosnian Moslems. Ian’s contributions are trite and of interest only to those who may want an insight into the psychological troubles of an unemployed English youth.

(Peter Sudyka, 19 February 2014 14:40)
Let’s not quibble over the amounts on offer. What is the EU offering?
For the last 20 years nothing.

there is no doubt in my mind sj that you sincerely believe the nonsense that you write. there is no shred of doubt in my mind that you seriously believe people are being paid $30 in Ukraine per person to go out and protest (do they get receipts after?). there is also no doubt in my mind that you actually believe you were paid to protest against Sloba in 1994 and were remunerated for it (so paid in Euro's was a Freudian slip?). there is also no doubt in my mind that you are suffering delusions and potentially FPP (Fantasy prone personality). rather than me poking fun at you, i suggest you see a psychiatrist and get to grips with your condition

(sj, 19 February 2014 23:43)

Yeah, you've been talking BS for the last 6 years, for example 20% unemployment in UK, 80% unemployment in Kosovo and my personal favourite; Chinese citizens don't need visas for Australia and British citizens do; the reason you know this, is because the parents of your Chinese mate living in Malaysia told you LOL. A quick look on the Aussie Got Dept of Foreign Affairs and Trade website tells you that this is a load of BS, just like being paid 20 euros in 1994 LOL!

How is the UK economy doing?

The UK economy must be doing bad because it rained, which in turn caused flooding. LOL

When in reality we have the fastest growing economy in the western world. Unemployment is now down to the per-economic crisis level, although youth unemployment remains high. The UK economy isn't brilliant, but it is promising and it doesn't resemble 'the end is nigh' picture you like to paint.

--------

But there was European Currency Unit.
(Peggy, 19 February 2014 23:56)

Is that the best you can come up with to defend that foolish compulsive liar? LOL

You're now suggesting that these 'agents' gave him European Currency Units which were numbers on a computer screen? LOL

I know only too well when Euros came into circulation. The payment was in dinars but I was only using Euros to save a lengthy explanation about converting money from one currency to another and B92 has a 1500 word limit.
I was well aware that people like you would pick up on this and it amuses me to no end – you guys are like flies to dung heap.
(sj, 19 February 2014 23:36)

Egg is still on your face sj.

If you really were paid by 'agents', why didn't you just say that you were paid a few dinars? The 1500 limit wouldn't have impacted that.

Also I don't see how a "lengthy explanation about converting money from one currency to another" is relevant when supposedly being paid a few dinars by 'agents'.

You're making up BS excuses and trying to change the subject to save yourself embarrassment, well the egg is still on your face and it is starting to smell like BS; which of course is your mother tongue.

I bet when you made up that BS story, you must have thought to yourself that your story sounds quite rationale and convincing; I bet you were rather proud of yourself. But your stupidity has let you down once again. Liars always make mistakes and have holes in their stories. You're a compulsive liar sj, eveyone knows this!

(Ian, UK, 20 February 2014 11:57)
The Albanian celt at his best. The „Aussie Got Dept of Foreign Affairs and Trade“ tells you all that you want to know eh? Did they also tell you that the property boom in Sydney and Melbourne is due to many Chinese buying to live while they move back and forth to China??? I have a friend that lives in the Sydney suburb of Eastwood and he has a Chinese neighbour that recently purchased the house next to him and the parents of that neighbour were out here for 3 months with no visa. Not everthying is published on the net.
Chinese are the biggest investors in Australia – there are 350 million middle class Chinese and all are cashed up. Considering that they will not overstay their visas why wouldn’t you let them fly in visa free???
You’re like that guy who asked me for proof of people being paid because he Googled it and no response. Was any of Wiki leaks or Snowden material on the net before being leaked????
On unemployment, it’s evident that you have rarely moved around in the UK civil service so there is no point except to say that officially Australia has about 5.7% unemployment while in fact its more like 13% - it’s called cooking the books.
They all talk about economies that “are the fastest growing in the world” – its crap.
The floods will have an effect on your economy.

(pemi, Ian's dad 21 February 2014 02:14)
(Peggy, 21 February 2014 12:34)

...__...

I would be very proud if I had a son like Ian_uk!!!

(Gotsefromohrid, 19 February 2014 17:21)

Ha ha. It's funny, Goatse, how many slavic folks are unable to detect sarcasm :)

unny thing about your story, SJ, is that you were given 20 euros 8 years before the Euro came into circulation.
(Danilo, 19 February 2014 13:56)

I know only too well when Euros came into circulation. The payment was in dinars but I was only using Euros to save a lengthy explanation about converting money from one currency to another and B92 has a 1500 word limit.
I was well aware that people like you would pick up on this and it amuses me to no end – you guys are like flies to dung heap.

But don't waste your time on sj. He actually believes the BS he posts on here. He is deluded, he lives in a little fantasy world that only exists in his mind.
(Ian, UK, 19 February 2014 15:11)

Funny how I have been saying for the last 6 years that things were getting progressively worse in the US and EU and yet I have been howled down. How is the UK economy going? They say that these floods will really have an effect on your living standards, but then again it could all be in my mind. Enjoy!!!

The best are indeed sanctions with unlimited humanitarian, merciful and democratic bombing of Kiev by Western aircraft. No sanctions without humanitarian bombs, please. Humanitarian and merciful Nazi, ooops, sorry, typo, I mean, Western bombs bring the democracy.

This was the time when Vuk Draskovic was handing out bread to the “starving masses” which in actual fact was only had about 150 people there, but the western media made it look as if it was all of Serbia waiting for the bread.
(sj, 19 February 2014 12:52)

Well, according to [link] it's more like 150 thousand. Also check [link] and [link]
(icj1, 20 February 2014 05:12)

Well my little Albanian genius I can show you people on the bread line in the US, so what’s your point again?????.
(sj, 20 February 2014 12:23)

I'm sure you can show that and probably even a bread line on the Moon... Unfortunately, regardless of what you show about the Moon or the US, those 150 thousand in Serbia still remain 150 thousand (not 150).... But I really admire your efforts to solve Serbia's problems using such innovative methods as showing bread lines in the US. Only a CE of B92 forums like you can achieve that.

And thanks for those adjectives, btw, but unfortunately I'm neither :)

P.S. CE = Chief Economist

Peggy

When Half-Term is over the halfwit, Ian, will go back to his school for the educationally subnormal and hopefully we will hear less from him.

I should think that with the upcoming destruction of Free Ukraine by the Chekist mafia gang, a few Serbs here might wonder if their pitiful pro-Russian prattle over the years at this site is just a little "pozorny"...or "predatelny"...

But there was European Currency Unit.
(Peggy, 19 February 2014 23:56)

There weren't euros you could hold in your hand - you know, the kind 'agents' would pay you getting off a bus - until 2002

This was the time when Vuk Draskovic was handing out bread to the “starving masses” which in actual fact was only had about 150 people there, but the western media made it look as if it was all of Serbia waiting for the bread.
(sj, 19 February 2014 12:52)

Well, according to http://www.b92.net/eng/news/society.php?yyyy=2011&mm=11&dd=16&nav_id=77350 it's more like 150 thousand. Also check http://www.b92.net/eng/news/society.php?yyyy=2012&mm=07&dd=21&nav_id=81391 and http://www.b92.net/eng/news/society.php?yyyy=2012&mm=11&dd=20&nav_id=83245

I use B92 because of Ian_UK. his contribution to this site is great and you know it. He is funny, informative and his English writing skills are excellent!! Pro European, Pro NATO, not a monarchist!!! These characteristics are the hallmarks of a great man regardless of his young age or employment status.
(pemi, Ian's dad 21 February 2014 02:14)

Why don’t your Albanians in Kosovo demonstrate against the appalling living conditions???? They are worse off than Ukraine. Hmmm???? I’m interested to know why don’t they do the same as in Ukraine????
(sj, 19 February 2014 23:19)

Because they are better off than Ukraine... Kosovo's GDP/capita (at PPP) is higher :)

Note: GDP/capita (at PPP) data has not been reviewed and approved by the CE of B92 forums sj

P.S. CE = Chief Economist

Michael Thomas

I am 100% on the same page as you when it comes to Western meddling and how using "privatization", they left the entire state's wealth in the hands of a small handful of crooks. Poland was no different and we are still feeling the effects of it 30 years later.

Under a new government in the Ukraine, the oil giants should indeed be nationalized as the oligarchs have indeed far too much influence and can be said to be holding a whole nation hostage.