Controversy as WW2-era Muslim Nazi collaborator is honored
Minister Without Portfolio Sulejman Ugljanin will have to "report" to First Deputy PM Aleksandar Vučić over a memorial plaque controversy, says tabloid Press.
Wow, I must have struck a nerve! I’m honored to get “the treatment” at B92, from both sides apparently. It would be silly of me to get into a deep, historical argument with natives; weather I was right or wrong I’d lose. I will offer a view from a reasonably educated outsider who’s lived most of his life in the West:
Mihalovic is looked at as someone who accomplished very little militarily while receiving the lion’s share of Allied (British) financing and political support. The rationalization for passivity being that he did not want to cause reprisals against Serb civilians. His stated strategy was to avoid conflict with the Germans until liberation by outside powers, while consolidating forces for the subsequent power struggle. That’s why Pop Vlada Secevic, Ratko Martinovic, & Dragoslav Racic left to join Tito (had to look the names up.) It’s also accepted that he had, at the very least, a tacit “understanding” with the Germans, even if one doesn’t accept the Communist contention that he was funded by them through the Milad Nadic government.
The Partisans’ history of engaging the Germans is universally accepted. What ever their religion, politics, or nationality, few historians question the Partisan contribution the Allied war effort. I’ll leave it there, pick the heroes you want, I still love you.
PS: Hey exKFOR, Привет из Одессы, never was your land, never will be.
this SSergei is a typical russian chauvinist, like muslim Albanians in KiM. for them their nazi/commie-ranting is ok but once the others (their neighbours) want to live their lives in THEIR land as their forefathers did and do not accept intruders` assimilation and ethnic cleansing policy, then aborigens are labelled as "genocidal fascists".
Serbia should quickly come to European standard of not allowing any displays of anything fascistic...by law ! (maybe Croatia should do the same thing).
(Vladimir, 6 August 2012 13:30)
=============================
When was Serbia ever a fascist country? Are you confising us with Croatia, Bosnian Muslims and Albanians?
Chetniks are Nazi collaborators? Wonder why they are all encouraged to march on ANZAC day here in Australia. You can believe what you want, but the rest of the world seems to disagree. Blaming Chetniks won't dissolve your fascist ancestors of their crimes.
Дража was a collaborator, a NAZI puppet. That is not some Croatian Communist propaganda, but well documented history. That is why half the Chetnik leadership left him before Uzice.
The rationalization that he was collaborating to save Serbian lives and further Serbian interests, even if true, is beyond naive at best and criminally idiotic at worst.
Serbs should understand that championing such characters does no service to their cause. It's much like the western Ukrainians love of Bandera; one look at him in that nifty SS uni and even their supporters are forced to face who they are dealing with. If I were you'all, I'd mind that if you want to maintain Russian support.
besides we are an independent country and can do whatever we want! adrian kola
No you aren't, adrian, and no cannot do whatever you want. Under UNSC resolution, Kosovo is still Serbia's Southern province, mate. KiM has always been called KiM, and nothing else. There is no such place as Dardania. Where the hell is that? What is a Dardan? The name, the artifacts, the monasteries, all suggest that Kosovo i Metohija is Serbian land. You can pound your Dardanian chest all you want, but you reside on Serbian land when you are in KiM.
"...who was in 1945 found guilty and executed for committing monstrous crimes, including the murder of at least 7,000 Serbs."
The killing of 7000 serbs. Isn't that the same amount of muslims killed by serbs in Srebrenica? I think so. However, Srebrenica is concidered to be genocide but this killing of 7000 serbs is not. Hmmm, I wonder why that is?
I have always known that the muslims in Raska are up to something. Muslims cannot accept to be a minority in a Christian society. Looks like the wars in former Yug are far from over.
ust like you keep refering to Kosova as Kosovo and Metohija, or most annoyingly KiM!!
(adrian kola, 6 August 2012 12:12)
---------------------------------------
That's what it was always called. You are the ones who are changing legitimate names.
Show me when in history it was ever called Kosova.
You are the annoying ones who are twisting everything and distorting everything.
So unless you can show me proof of it EVER being called Kosova, kindly shut up.
"ps: as for Kosovo i Metohija, it is the only name this region has! even the Albanians cannot call it something else, since all other attempts to rename the serbian province have been fruitless - and with reason. the Albanians are forced to use the serb name, since there simply is no other.
even the former albanian chief-agitator Rugova failed with his ineffective attempt to establish the fantasy-name of "Dardania", and that is something a lot of K-albanians still cannot stand."
I see I touched a nerve there mate. No need to get offended, no offence meant. I was simply trying to point out typical Serbian obssessions to change names of reagions and toponyms to suit their political agenda and falsify history.
As far as the name of Kosova is concerned, that's never really been a real concern to us. If we really wanted to call ourselves smth different (i.e. Dardania or Albania or whatever) there's nothing stopping us from doing so, besides we are an independent country and can do whatever we want!
We all know that Draza Mihailovic was a Serbian Patriot and Hero, who was Tried on False Charges, and murdered by the Croat Tito.
If the Serbian People had followed Draza Mihailovic instead of being deceived by Anglo-American Puppet of Croat Tito, then the breakup of Yugoslavia would never have happened.
This is because Draza Mihailovic would have made three Countries from Yugoslavia, and they would have been Slovenia, Croatia, and the rest would have been Serbia.
As such, Draza Mihailovic is undoubtedly the most Intelligent and Patriotic Serbian Political figure in recent History, and therefore, he should be Rehabilitated As Soon As Possible.
This should be done despite Vehement German objections that Draza Mihailovic delayed Hitler Evil Nazis long enough to give Russia the time advantage, and thus causing Germany to lose the Second World War, and Serbia Must Demand that Germany Publicly kisses Draza Mihailovic’s Tail to prove that a Majority of Germans are Very Happy that Hitler lost the War; and if they do not, then it will be used in a Genocide case against Germany.
We can understand if many Serbian Politicians do not want to Confess that there was someone as Intelligent and Patriotic as Draza Mihailovic, because of Envy, or because of Loving to kiss Germany’s Tail.
There is no more excuse of accommodating the Croat Nazis as was the case with Yugoslavia, and the Serbian Politicians took an oath of Office and are Obligated to act Honestly and with Integrity, and to help other Serbs become Intelligent by Fully Exonerating and Rehabilitating Draza Mihailovic.
Serbia should quickly come to European standard of not allowing any displays of anything fascistic...by law ! (maybe Croatia should do the same thing).
"... informally known as Sandžak" Most people know this region as Sandzak, why would that make it informal? You mean it's inconvenient to Serbian nationalist thinking to call it Sandzak right, you'd rather call it smth more nationalistic like Raska etc? Just like you keep refering to Kosova as Kosovo and Metohija, or most annoyingly KiM!!
I wonder what is more controversial..this lunatic showing up at some Jihadi terrorists monument commemoration, the fact that Serbia even allows such a thing to exist, or the fact that he is a "Minister without Portfolio" and his salary to evidently do absolutely nothing is funded by the Serbian tax payer/state budget.
The fact that Ugljanin is not serving a life sentence behind bars with no chance of parole means Serbia is in a state of severe insanity. The entire Balkans are. But it is no excuse Serbia has always historically and still has the potential to rise far above its weaker but hostile neighbors.
sandzak is a turkish name, it has lost it´s justification the moment the ottoman turks were chased back were they came from.
Raška however, is the rightful and traditional name - you may call it nationalist, but hey, you are an albanian extremist, what else should you say? =)
so, KiM is just as right and justified as Raška, like it or not.
but finally, we couldn´t care less about what you think about this... KiM will be liberated one way or another. so, better take care of yourself and plans for yourself somewhere in Albania, since I do not believe you will stay in southern Serbia, once the situation changes again. you will be free to stay of course, but I doubt that guys like you would stay... =)
and now finally in regard to the article: Ugljanin is just a "soldier" , taking orders from others...and there seems to be someone who wants to create trouble inside non-occupied Serbia... and that shows that someone seems to be nervous, though.
ps: as for Kosovo i Metohija, it is the only name this region has! even the Albanians cannot call it something else, since all other attempts to rename the serbian province have been fruitless - and with reason. the Albanians are forced to use the serb name, since there simply is no other.
even the former albanian chief-agitator Rugova failed with his ineffective attempt to establish the fantasy-name of "Dardania", and that is something a lot of K-albanians still cannot stand.
I wonder what is more controversial..this lunatic showing up at some Jihadi terrorists monument commemoration, the fact that Serbia even allows such a thing to exist, or the fact that he is a "Minister without Portfolio" and his salary to evidently do absolutely nothing is funded by the Serbian tax payer/state budget.
The fact that Ugljanin is not serving a life sentence behind bars with no chance of parole means Serbia is in a state of severe insanity. The entire Balkans are. But it is no excuse Serbia has always historically and still has the potential to rise far above its weaker but hostile neighbors.
sandzak is a turkish name, it has lost it´s justification the moment the ottoman turks were chased back were they came from.
Raška however, is the rightful and traditional name - you may call it nationalist, but hey, you are an albanian extremist, what else should you say? =)
so, KiM is just as right and justified as Raška, like it or not.
but finally, we couldn´t care less about what you think about this... KiM will be liberated one way or another. so, better take care of yourself and plans for yourself somewhere in Albania, since I do not believe you will stay in southern Serbia, once the situation changes again. you will be free to stay of course, but I doubt that guys like you would stay... =)
and now finally in regard to the article: Ugljanin is just a "soldier" , taking orders from others...and there seems to be someone who wants to create trouble inside non-occupied Serbia... and that shows that someone seems to be nervous, though.
ps: as for Kosovo i Metohija, it is the only name this region has! even the Albanians cannot call it something else, since all other attempts to rename the serbian province have been fruitless - and with reason. the Albanians are forced to use the serb name, since there simply is no other.
even the former albanian chief-agitator Rugova failed with his ineffective attempt to establish the fantasy-name of "Dardania", and that is something a lot of K-albanians still cannot stand.
Serbia should quickly come to European standard of not allowing any displays of anything fascistic...by law ! (maybe Croatia should do the same thing).
ust like you keep refering to Kosova as Kosovo and Metohija, or most annoyingly KiM!!
(adrian kola, 6 August 2012 12:12)
---------------------------------------
That's what it was always called. You are the ones who are changing legitimate names.
Show me when in history it was ever called Kosova.
You are the annoying ones who are twisting everything and distorting everything.
So unless you can show me proof of it EVER being called Kosova, kindly shut up.
"...who was in 1945 found guilty and executed for committing monstrous crimes, including the murder of at least 7,000 Serbs."
The killing of 7000 serbs. Isn't that the same amount of muslims killed by serbs in Srebrenica? I think so. However, Srebrenica is concidered to be genocide but this killing of 7000 serbs is not. Hmmm, I wonder why that is?
I have always known that the muslims in Raska are up to something. Muslims cannot accept to be a minority in a Christian society. Looks like the wars in former Yug are far from over.
"... informally known as Sandžak" Most people know this region as Sandzak, why would that make it informal? You mean it's inconvenient to Serbian nationalist thinking to call it Sandzak right, you'd rather call it smth more nationalistic like Raska etc? Just like you keep refering to Kosova as Kosovo and Metohija, or most annoyingly KiM!!
We all know that Draza Mihailovic was a Serbian Patriot and Hero, who was Tried on False Charges, and murdered by the Croat Tito.
If the Serbian People had followed Draza Mihailovic instead of being deceived by Anglo-American Puppet of Croat Tito, then the breakup of Yugoslavia would never have happened.
This is because Draza Mihailovic would have made three Countries from Yugoslavia, and they would have been Slovenia, Croatia, and the rest would have been Serbia.
As such, Draza Mihailovic is undoubtedly the most Intelligent and Patriotic Serbian Political figure in recent History, and therefore, he should be Rehabilitated As Soon As Possible.
This should be done despite Vehement German objections that Draza Mihailovic delayed Hitler Evil Nazis long enough to give Russia the time advantage, and thus causing Germany to lose the Second World War, and Serbia Must Demand that Germany Publicly kisses Draza Mihailovic’s Tail to prove that a Majority of Germans are Very Happy that Hitler lost the War; and if they do not, then it will be used in a Genocide case against Germany.
We can understand if many Serbian Politicians do not want to Confess that there was someone as Intelligent and Patriotic as Draza Mihailovic, because of Envy, or because of Loving to kiss Germany’s Tail.
There is no more excuse of accommodating the Croat Nazis as was the case with Yugoslavia, and the Serbian Politicians took an oath of Office and are Obligated to act Honestly and with Integrity, and to help other Serbs become Intelligent by Fully Exonerating and Rehabilitating Draza Mihailovic.
besides we are an independent country and can do whatever we want! adrian kola
No you aren't, adrian, and no cannot do whatever you want. Under UNSC resolution, Kosovo is still Serbia's Southern province, mate. KiM has always been called KiM, and nothing else. There is no such place as Dardania. Where the hell is that? What is a Dardan? The name, the artifacts, the monasteries, all suggest that Kosovo i Metohija is Serbian land. You can pound your Dardanian chest all you want, but you reside on Serbian land when you are in KiM.
"ps: as for Kosovo i Metohija, it is the only name this region has! even the Albanians cannot call it something else, since all other attempts to rename the serbian province have been fruitless - and with reason. the Albanians are forced to use the serb name, since there simply is no other.
even the former albanian chief-agitator Rugova failed with his ineffective attempt to establish the fantasy-name of "Dardania", and that is something a lot of K-albanians still cannot stand."
I see I touched a nerve there mate. No need to get offended, no offence meant. I was simply trying to point out typical Serbian obssessions to change names of reagions and toponyms to suit their political agenda and falsify history.
As far as the name of Kosova is concerned, that's never really been a real concern to us. If we really wanted to call ourselves smth different (i.e. Dardania or Albania or whatever) there's nothing stopping us from doing so, besides we are an independent country and can do whatever we want!
Chetniks are Nazi collaborators? Wonder why they are all encouraged to march on ANZAC day here in Australia. You can believe what you want, but the rest of the world seems to disagree. Blaming Chetniks won't dissolve your fascist ancestors of their crimes.
Serbia should quickly come to European standard of not allowing any displays of anything fascistic...by law ! (maybe Croatia should do the same thing).
(Vladimir, 6 August 2012 13:30)
=============================
When was Serbia ever a fascist country? Are you confising us with Croatia, Bosnian Muslims and Albanians?
Дража was a collaborator, a NAZI puppet. That is not some Croatian Communist propaganda, but well documented history. That is why half the Chetnik leadership left him before Uzice.
The rationalization that he was collaborating to save Serbian lives and further Serbian interests, even if true, is beyond naive at best and criminally idiotic at worst.
Serbs should understand that championing such characters does no service to their cause. It's much like the western Ukrainians love of Bandera; one look at him in that nifty SS uni and even their supporters are forced to face who they are dealing with. If I were you'all, I'd mind that if you want to maintain Russian support.
this SSergei is a typical russian chauvinist, like muslim Albanians in KiM. for them their nazi/commie-ranting is ok but once the others (their neighbours) want to live their lives in THEIR land as their forefathers did and do not accept intruders` assimilation and ethnic cleansing policy, then aborigens are labelled as "genocidal fascists".
Wow, I must have struck a nerve! I’m honored to get “the treatment” at B92, from both sides apparently. It would be silly of me to get into a deep, historical argument with natives; weather I was right or wrong I’d lose. I will offer a view from a reasonably educated outsider who’s lived most of his life in the West:
Mihalovic is looked at as someone who accomplished very little militarily while receiving the lion’s share of Allied (British) financing and political support. The rationalization for passivity being that he did not want to cause reprisals against Serb civilians. His stated strategy was to avoid conflict with the Germans until liberation by outside powers, while consolidating forces for the subsequent power struggle. That’s why Pop Vlada Secevic, Ratko Martinovic, & Dragoslav Racic left to join Tito (had to look the names up.) It’s also accepted that he had, at the very least, a tacit “understanding” with the Germans, even if one doesn’t accept the Communist contention that he was funded by them through the Milad Nadic government.
The Partisans’ history of engaging the Germans is universally accepted. What ever their religion, politics, or nationality, few historians question the Partisan contribution the Allied war effort. I’ll leave it there, pick the heroes you want, I still love you.
PS: Hey exKFOR, Привет из Одессы, never was your land, never will be.
"... informally known as Sandžak" Most people know this region as Sandzak, why would that make it informal? You mean it's inconvenient to Serbian nationalist thinking to call it Sandzak right, you'd rather call it smth more nationalistic like Raska etc? Just like you keep refering to Kosova as Kosovo and Metohija, or most annoyingly KiM!!
"ps: as for Kosovo i Metohija, it is the only name this region has! even the Albanians cannot call it something else, since all other attempts to rename the serbian province have been fruitless - and with reason. the Albanians are forced to use the serb name, since there simply is no other.
even the former albanian chief-agitator Rugova failed with his ineffective attempt to establish the fantasy-name of "Dardania", and that is something a lot of K-albanians still cannot stand."
I see I touched a nerve there mate. No need to get offended, no offence meant. I was simply trying to point out typical Serbian obssessions to change names of reagions and toponyms to suit their political agenda and falsify history.
As far as the name of Kosova is concerned, that's never really been a real concern to us. If we really wanted to call ourselves smth different (i.e. Dardania or Albania or whatever) there's nothing stopping us from doing so, besides we are an independent country and can do whatever we want!
Дража was a collaborator, a NAZI puppet. That is not some Croatian Communist propaganda, but well documented history. That is why half the Chetnik leadership left him before Uzice.
The rationalization that he was collaborating to save Serbian lives and further Serbian interests, even if true, is beyond naive at best and criminally idiotic at worst.
Serbs should understand that championing such characters does no service to their cause. It's much like the western Ukrainians love of Bandera; one look at him in that nifty SS uni and even their supporters are forced to face who they are dealing with. If I were you'all, I'd mind that if you want to maintain Russian support.
I wonder what is more controversial..this lunatic showing up at some Jihadi terrorists monument commemoration, the fact that Serbia even allows such a thing to exist, or the fact that he is a "Minister without Portfolio" and his salary to evidently do absolutely nothing is funded by the Serbian tax payer/state budget.
The fact that Ugljanin is not serving a life sentence behind bars with no chance of parole means Serbia is in a state of severe insanity. The entire Balkans are. But it is no excuse Serbia has always historically and still has the potential to rise far above its weaker but hostile neighbors.
sandzak is a turkish name, it has lost it´s justification the moment the ottoman turks were chased back were they came from.
Raška however, is the rightful and traditional name - you may call it nationalist, but hey, you are an albanian extremist, what else should you say? =)
so, KiM is just as right and justified as Raška, like it or not.
but finally, we couldn´t care less about what you think about this... KiM will be liberated one way or another. so, better take care of yourself and plans for yourself somewhere in Albania, since I do not believe you will stay in southern Serbia, once the situation changes again. you will be free to stay of course, but I doubt that guys like you would stay... =)
and now finally in regard to the article: Ugljanin is just a "soldier" , taking orders from others...and there seems to be someone who wants to create trouble inside non-occupied Serbia... and that shows that someone seems to be nervous, though.
ps: as for Kosovo i Metohija, it is the only name this region has! even the Albanians cannot call it something else, since all other attempts to rename the serbian province have been fruitless - and with reason. the Albanians are forced to use the serb name, since there simply is no other.
even the former albanian chief-agitator Rugova failed with his ineffective attempt to establish the fantasy-name of "Dardania", and that is something a lot of K-albanians still cannot stand.
"...who was in 1945 found guilty and executed for committing monstrous crimes, including the murder of at least 7,000 Serbs."
The killing of 7000 serbs. Isn't that the same amount of muslims killed by serbs in Srebrenica? I think so. However, Srebrenica is concidered to be genocide but this killing of 7000 serbs is not. Hmmm, I wonder why that is?
I have always known that the muslims in Raska are up to something. Muslims cannot accept to be a minority in a Christian society. Looks like the wars in former Yug are far from over.
Serbia should quickly come to European standard of not allowing any displays of anything fascistic...by law ! (maybe Croatia should do the same thing).
(Vladimir, 6 August 2012 13:30)
=============================
When was Serbia ever a fascist country? Are you confising us with Croatia, Bosnian Muslims and Albanians?
We all know that Draza Mihailovic was a Serbian Patriot and Hero, who was Tried on False Charges, and murdered by the Croat Tito.
If the Serbian People had followed Draza Mihailovic instead of being deceived by Anglo-American Puppet of Croat Tito, then the breakup of Yugoslavia would never have happened.
This is because Draza Mihailovic would have made three Countries from Yugoslavia, and they would have been Slovenia, Croatia, and the rest would have been Serbia.
As such, Draza Mihailovic is undoubtedly the most Intelligent and Patriotic Serbian Political figure in recent History, and therefore, he should be Rehabilitated As Soon As Possible.
This should be done despite Vehement German objections that Draza Mihailovic delayed Hitler Evil Nazis long enough to give Russia the time advantage, and thus causing Germany to lose the Second World War, and Serbia Must Demand that Germany Publicly kisses Draza Mihailovic’s Tail to prove that a Majority of Germans are Very Happy that Hitler lost the War; and if they do not, then it will be used in a Genocide case against Germany.
We can understand if many Serbian Politicians do not want to Confess that there was someone as Intelligent and Patriotic as Draza Mihailovic, because of Envy, or because of Loving to kiss Germany’s Tail.
There is no more excuse of accommodating the Croat Nazis as was the case with Yugoslavia, and the Serbian Politicians took an oath of Office and are Obligated to act Honestly and with Integrity, and to help other Serbs become Intelligent by Fully Exonerating and Rehabilitating Draza Mihailovic.
besides we are an independent country and can do whatever we want! adrian kola
No you aren't, adrian, and no cannot do whatever you want. Under UNSC resolution, Kosovo is still Serbia's Southern province, mate. KiM has always been called KiM, and nothing else. There is no such place as Dardania. Where the hell is that? What is a Dardan? The name, the artifacts, the monasteries, all suggest that Kosovo i Metohija is Serbian land. You can pound your Dardanian chest all you want, but you reside on Serbian land when you are in KiM.
this SSergei is a typical russian chauvinist, like muslim Albanians in KiM. for them their nazi/commie-ranting is ok but once the others (their neighbours) want to live their lives in THEIR land as their forefathers did and do not accept intruders` assimilation and ethnic cleansing policy, then aborigens are labelled as "genocidal fascists".
ust like you keep refering to Kosova as Kosovo and Metohija, or most annoyingly KiM!!
(adrian kola, 6 August 2012 12:12)
---------------------------------------
That's what it was always called. You are the ones who are changing legitimate names.
Show me when in history it was ever called Kosova.
You are the annoying ones who are twisting everything and distorting everything.
So unless you can show me proof of it EVER being called Kosova, kindly shut up.
Chetniks are Nazi collaborators? Wonder why they are all encouraged to march on ANZAC day here in Australia. You can believe what you want, but the rest of the world seems to disagree. Blaming Chetniks won't dissolve your fascist ancestors of their crimes.
Serbia should quickly come to European standard of not allowing any displays of anything fascistic...by law ! (maybe Croatia should do the same thing).
Wow, I must have struck a nerve! I’m honored to get “the treatment” at B92, from both sides apparently. It would be silly of me to get into a deep, historical argument with natives; weather I was right or wrong I’d lose. I will offer a view from a reasonably educated outsider who’s lived most of his life in the West:
Mihalovic is looked at as someone who accomplished very little militarily while receiving the lion’s share of Allied (British) financing and political support. The rationalization for passivity being that he did not want to cause reprisals against Serb civilians. His stated strategy was to avoid conflict with the Germans until liberation by outside powers, while consolidating forces for the subsequent power struggle. That’s why Pop Vlada Secevic, Ratko Martinovic, & Dragoslav Racic left to join Tito (had to look the names up.) It’s also accepted that he had, at the very least, a tacit “understanding” with the Germans, even if one doesn’t accept the Communist contention that he was funded by them through the Milad Nadic government.
The Partisans’ history of engaging the Germans is universally accepted. What ever their religion, politics, or nationality, few historians question the Partisan contribution the Allied war effort. I’ll leave it there, pick the heroes you want, I still love you.
PS: Hey exKFOR, Привет из Одессы, never was your land, never will be.
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